November 29, 2021 • 34 mins
The Dougherty’s crime spree all started because the siblings wanted to stick together, but their family bonds only managed to land them in seperate federal prisons. The siblings are a decade into their sentences and describe what prison life is like for each of them.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
My hopes and dreams are to finish my prison terms
sooner than my sentence is judged by the federal government.
I hope I can get out and do positive things
as a human being. I want to reunite with my
brothers and sister and have a close relationship with all
of them. I want to rebuild the trust that they
once had for me. I want a house in Texas
(00:23):
or Florida where I can have a small property. I
also want to travel and see Europe, Australia, the Philippines, Alaska,
and buy a boat and explore the South Pacific for
wreckage to recover and sell to antique dealers. I also
want to begin another career as a photographer for models
(00:43):
and wedding parties. I would like to work in healthcare
or a home business where I can work hard, make money,
and succeed in life. Welcome to The Dockerty Gang, a
production of I Heart Radio and Katie Studios Episode eleven,
Third World Country on Mars. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a crime
(01:07):
producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie lie Decker. We've been
working with producer Beth Greenwald on The Dougherty Gang for
months now. These three siblings have agreed to tell their
story for the very first time, each from separate prisons.
Lee Grace Docherty is at the Federal Correction Institute Aliceville
in Alabama. Ryan Docherty is in the U S Penitentiary
(01:30):
Tucson in Arizona, and Dylan Docherty is currently at the
United States Prison of Atlanta in Georgia. The podcast You
are about to Hear contains explicit language and mature content
that some listeners may find offensive. Let's call to think
that I am a good person. Yeah, maybe I've done
from my family. Isn't one of them. You know, maybe
(01:53):
I would like to change though the way that I
was there. But I'll never say I'm sorry for I'm kind.
I'm not I'm not sorry for being a My family
marks the tenure anniversary of the Dougherty family Crimes Free.
Despite the fact that they're only able to communicate via email,
their devotion remains intact. This is producer Beth Greenwald on
(02:14):
with Ryan in one of their final interviews. It's not
like Good Fellows. We didn't just get like some fresh
pudo and fucking some loaves of bread and a couple
of bottles of wine. It's not like that. This ship
is very fucking uh there and they're kind of off
stir or whatever the fucking word is. And you got
like a few clothes. You might have like a pair
(02:35):
of shoes, you might have some of your personal photos
in a little bit of food, Like you don't really
have anything. I really is in like a concrete block
room with like a metal locker than painted gun metal gray.
Everything is white on gray everywhere except for some blue
accent for like where the phones are at and where
the doors are at. Right, besides that, the same aryact color.
(02:59):
And it's like it's seen know, there's no windows. Cloths
are easily acceptable like that. It's super eutilitarian, Like they're
tu bunks in the room that's like I don't know,
seven feet by nine feet, right, there's a toilet in
the stink and and there you go. You've got like
a couple of uniforms that they give you, and give
you a pair of boots that are sucking made out
(03:19):
of like cardboard and like dead animals. Like it's very minimal.
That's all on how you look at it. When's the
last time I had to cook the dinner? I don't
have to cook the dinner. Somebody else cooks dinner for me.
What's the last time I washed my you know, my clothes.
I don't have to. I can put him in the
bag and somebody else wash us. So we have to
clean the bathroom in the shower, somebody does that. I
(03:42):
don't have to sweepelf before or somebody else does that.
You know what I mean? I want to a close
side and you know, play horseshoes or you know, basketball
or botchy ball or half a dozen other things. I
know means that I like being in prison. I'm just
saying as far as you kind of shift your reality.
And one time I came and I said something to
(04:03):
my attorney and she's like, oh, why are you so happy?
You know? And I, hell, yeah, I had thirty two
years in Colorado. This is my federal attorney. And you know,
I'm looking at a you know, a crazy sent spare
with the beds, and I was like, well, you know,
I said, you know, I focused on what I do have,
not on you know, and she's like, well, what else
you don't have? And I was like, well, if I
focused all the things I didn't have, I'm ansoes go
(04:23):
back to the unit. And you know, tied sheet around
the rail and jump over. Here's Lee Grace giving her
take on life in prison. The first year is really
hard because you're a gap thing. But once you adapt
and you can see things and your vision becomes clear
about how people really are and how the officers really aren't,
how the unit team really are, and the people that
work in the prison system, everything gets so much worse
(04:46):
because you see the reality, you see the honesty. So
I've been here about eight, eight or nine years. She's
I need to count, but I think eight years. And
where were you before that? I was in Hazelton, a
small within prison in West Virginia. It's a federal facility. Well,
I mean they're both federal facilities, but I've been in
(05:07):
I was in county before that, so that causes a
lot of confusion. State and said are completely different type
of prison. Ryan is having a harder go of it
in prison. But I ended up doing timing about six
different county jails in Georgia. Why are they when they
heard that? Like, I was having a hard out time
in making because making took me from in bib County jail.
(05:30):
There's a murder every time they run wrecked there like
somebody dies, somebody gets stabbed at death. Like it's more
violent than any of the prisons I've ever been to.
It's like rats all over the floor and cockroaches, and
you'd be lucky if you get a mattress, Like there's
no food. It took me from two hundred thirty seven
pounds to a hundred and fifty eight pounds and a
little less than six months, so you do the math.
Marshall came and picked me up and didn't recognize me.
(05:52):
He's like, what the funk happened? And I told him
it was like, bro, listen, when I get in the
van with you right now, y'all are gonna have to
beat the funk out of me and taste for me
in order to get me to go back into that
county jail. Ryan is in protective custody at his prison
due to being charged with sending a minor harmful information
and loud moss of his conduct. It was the original
case that tipped off the entire crime spree. The yard
(06:16):
where I'm out currently is like splits, like seventy job
molesters and other either gang dropout, rat, hit the wrong person,
bad luck, drug that you know, take pick or choose.
But anyways, right you cut it, you're not good you know,
and you're not in good standing, so you end up here.
And this is like the bottom of the barrel. So
(06:37):
like I look at these people would disdain because the
ones that like, let's call the ones that like raped
their two year old daughter. You know, I think they
should burn in hell. But you know, it's not my
place to judge or punish them, like that's that's not
my deal. And then for me at like a regular yard,
somebody would look at me for fucking a fifteen year
old stick when I was eighteen, and it's the same
(06:58):
as they would look at one of these people that
suck the ju world, you know, when they were forty.
It doesn't there's no differentiation in their eyes. I mean
in the beginning, you're a good looking guys. You get
into jail, it's twenty something years old. Are you protecting
at all in anyway? But no, No, it's predatory as ship.
(07:18):
Let's protect your own asshole with a knife forget raped.
I mean it's one of the two. Lee Grace has
their own opinion of the women's prison. These are women
that have fat on their asses and couches all day,
you know, selling drugs out of their out of their basement.
These aren't athletic, strong, strapping women from Alaska. These are fat,
overweight people from the South, so they're not good fighters.
(07:40):
Men can kill somebody and women can't. Well, it would
take a lot for somebody a woman. There's not very
much violence. Women are all bullshit and talk and physically
they're weak, so they can't. It's hard for them to
kill somebody. This call is from a federal prison. Men
can just snap your neck or you know, stabby in
the artery and just you know, rip your heart out.
(08:02):
So women don't really fight with weapons and men do.
So once you get a shank in your hand, it's
really easy to flip somebody's throat. Meanwhile, Ryan is living
in fear, like there's been a few stabbings recently, and
there's been a few people hitting the head with locks,
and there's been a few people kicked in the head
with boots, and like, the majority of that violence is
(08:23):
either because of gay stuff or people owing money, or
just people not wanting to be here. That's steered the
conversation with Ryan to work. But what about the people
then you know the other prisoners that work, do they
make a wage that volunteer based? How does that work?
It's volunteer based. It's work if you want to. They're
(08:46):
trying to pay the dudes like eighteen dollars months to
clean ten showers twice a day, five days a week, right,
and it's like you gotta get in there and you
gotta scrub, and like people are nasty. There's like jizz
or fucking used razors or like a pubic care ball
the size of a raccoon in the corner. It's just agreed.
Just man, here's Dylan talking about his day to day life.
(09:07):
I just changed jobs. You know. I used to work
on the rack yard. Was king water keg build up
the water kigs, and I know that's something like wow, well,
I mean what is that? You know, when you have
five people in the yard and there's you know, ten
ten gallon kigs push at least three Olympic swimming pools
of water up that girl in the six years that
I've been out there, so I recently went to facilities.
(09:29):
Thank you all the plumbing, electrical. If you realize that
the prison is, you know, the maintenantonent is kept up
by the you know, the inmate population. We didn't work,
they couldn't keep us locked up. But but I went
to facilities that Bunny might got me a job down there.
It's weirdy one way that, you know, maintaining the cage
that keeps me, but it also gives me a chance
(09:51):
to do stuff that I used to do on the
street and feel productive. Here's beout speaking with Ryan about
how different events in his life have shaped to my
the person. Let me ask you something. When you look
at this big picture, is there a moment that if
things like just a little differently, this wouldn't have been
the story? Oh man, you know what. Yeah, there's pivot
(10:14):
points in everyone's life. There's big watershed moments, right and
I guess the first one is the youngest one. When
I was a kid and my father died, you know,
seven years old, fam right then and there, that's a
big momentum the car accident where I broke my neck
and I smashed my head and I have a dramatic
brain injury from that. Um. That's another one that's kind
of where I fell in love with opiates, from sucking
(10:35):
breaking my back and having to take oxycotton and morphine
and ship because my back hurt. And then uh, let's
see what else here, Oh, when my sister died. That
was a vicious one because man, if you want to
talk about a completely different person, that's where it felt
like I developed two separate personalities that go on in
my head at any given time. While Ryan remembers his pain,
(10:56):
Dylan tries to remain positive. You know a lot of
people big they you know, they have a lot of
regrets and and and the whole you know, everything is
it's a negative. And it does not for you know,
it's just not me. And so I don't really dwell
on the situation a lot. And when I really sit
down and think about it, sometimes it does kind of
pluck out my heart stream. Annie Armstrung me out as
(11:19):
a psychotherapist who has followed the Dougherty story closely. More
adverse experience as a kid has loss of a parent,
substance abuse in the home, separation, you know of siblings,
those things all would be considered adverse experiences. So the
higher doses of adversity, they do affect the pleasure and
(11:40):
reward center of the brain. And what happens is the
person needs a higher dose of whatever that pleasure stimulant
is in order to feel pleasure, and so people who
have higher amounts of adverse childhood experiences are way more
likely to be involved in risky behavior. In one of
(12:02):
her last interviews with Lee, Grace's attorney Patrick McCarville, that
spoke with him about Marfan syndrome, the genetic cart disorder
that runs in the Dougherty family, and how that may
have affected her family's choices in life. You know, they
lost dead, they lost sister both to Marfan syndrome. You know,
at least in your conversation with Lee, did she feel
(12:23):
like she didn't ever longed to live or she you know,
was that a huge factor in her actions? Absolutely? I
think the night that they hatched this plan, I believe
they discussed that they didn't believe that they would live
as long as most people because of that hereditary disease,
(12:46):
and that was a factor in what caused them to
do these crimes. They were going to get out of
Dodge and go live happily ever after together as a
family with what all time they thought they had left.
Sean McEwan is a filmmaker who wrote and directed a
feature film about the Doughertyes. He's also a friend to
(13:08):
the trio. I think what strikes me at this point,
kind of revisiting the story and kind of seeing it
through a lens of the perspective of a decade later,
is that I vacillate between two truths. One is the
tragedy that they didn't accomplish their objective. While I'm very
(13:29):
glad no one got injured and could have. But the
tragedy that, apparently and everything that they say is all
about the fact that they just wanted to be together
and be safe and get the heck out of Dodge
and try to forge this new life and that didn't happen.
And then yet and maybe I'm just trying to be
(13:51):
the total optimist here in some sense, but they they
still have this bond. That bond is stronger than ever.
You can hear it, and the way they retell the
stories you can hear it, and how strong the feelings
are toward each other. So in spite of it all,
nothing could separate them. They are still figuratively still together.
(14:12):
Their ten years into their sentences, but they've done thirty years.
That's how they think of the others. There that intertwined
that when you add it up, that's thirty years of
them all being apart, not spending time together, you know.
And by the some of this, it's years of that,
you know, when you compound it like that, And I
think that's what's so interesting. Also, they're not going to
have that opportunity to really beating each other's lives, and
(14:34):
that's all they really ever wanted. We're going to take
a quick break here. We'll be back in a moment.
Although the docerty has pled their cases, the Florida courts
(14:54):
have not settled with Dylan and Lee. Grace. Ryan is
the only one of the siblings who are a you
play out in Florida. Here's Beth speaking with Dylan. This
call was from the federal prison. This call, it's from
Dylan family. You may begin speaking now, Hey, how are
you doing. I'm in a really bad mood now, not
(15:18):
just kind of a legal letter from my new attorney
that I have in Florida, and um, I don't know
what is going on down there, but yeah, what what
does the letter say? Well, I've had to learn that
apparently much time so I could start until I get
this case resolved. And so like, I don't know, I
was on any impression that they would it would you know,
(15:40):
I would start from the moment that I was InCAR
story would just come up on ten years now. So
he's saying that I'm not I get creative for the
time that I've served already, which is just unacceptable because
it you know, forty years since. So only they they're
offered me with a twenty five year minimal menatory with
another fifteen years recurrent want to I want to play
charged second secondary to the attempted murder police officers. So
(16:04):
uh yeah, I just just uh, I don't know. It
was crazy. Dylan has been serving his sentences concurrently, and
this letter revealed that he may face even more time
in Florida. But the real question is why did it
take so long? Ten years later they're deciding to do this, Well,
I mean ten years, they haven't done anything. They just
(16:26):
sort of they have. They never came to get me,
They never you know what I mean. They just whenever
I go to a new institution, they relodge a detainer
against me. And it's just like, I don't know, they
were just waiting for waiting for me to get out
and then have the State troopers come quickly up after
serve you know, thirty years in the FEDS or you know,
I don't know, it's really weird. I just emailed my
brother and so I got that and asked him if
(16:47):
they have started his time in two thousand and eleven
or if that is indeed what they did, because he
didn't he didn't get the case result until two thousand
and fourteen. But it's definitely, you know, it's not good news.
How long do you have this lawyer I'm working on this,
he just started. I just kind of you know, because
I was I was wanting to get this all resolved
before all these other things, you know, work out, and
(17:11):
I just want to kind of wanted it behind me
and you know, a bow tied on it, and then
I could have you know, a day and uh, you know,
and and start working towards that, you know, the definitive day.
You know. It's definitely disheartening because if that's true, that's true,
I I'm I have to take it a trial. I'm
not gonna you know what I mean, she just if
nothing shakes out with my stay cake and then you're
(17:32):
talking to ten ten years, it's dead time. It's kind
of just so it's you know, that just that puts
me at you know, six eight seventy years old. Do
we know we we don't know if Lee Grace that
a letter as well? Right, talk to her, you know
what I mean, letter show explain to you what her
attorneys told her. She said that her attorney back, she
had so hard. You're up there and you know, sucking
(17:53):
a lask her, you know, moth Ambique and we really
you know, we don't have a mule train to come
get you. Just you know, I don't know, I don't
understand why it's so hard. You know, I mean I've
been in the same institution for uh seven years or
six years, uh probably you know, uh not even three
miles from the support state line, you know what I mean. Uh,
if this was a big deal to them, and my
(18:15):
my whole mindset on it was let it sit and
that the that the you know, it was a rolling boil,
the oil it boiled over on the stove and it
was you know, I was just like, well, let's just
let it kind of simmered down, and you know what
I mean, I can go down there and and can
get taken care of, you know, seven or eight, nine,
ten years and you know, maybe to be halfway forgotten
and people won't you know, you know, I felt like
(18:37):
time was you know, time heals all wounds or whatever.
Dylan's new attorney, the man who sent him the letter
was recommended by a fellow inmate. The first thing he
opens up with is is, you know, I built a
half hower for this, and I build a half power
for that. And I was over here for fifteen minutes
and I was over there for forty five minutes. So
I mean he's opened up with his his breakdown on
(18:57):
the building and you know, and says that, you know,
my so and so is gonna, you know, is takeing
care of the charges. And you know it's funny Kobe Becker,
who I have all the admiration in respect for, and
I can't thank her enough. You know, she was more
than willing to do it. She said, it's only on
her fifty hours from her to get her federal stamp
(19:19):
for the Middle District of Georgia or whatever the hell
it was. And you know, I looking at her as
the first time mom, I was, I was working that
selfish and I said, no, I'm sure they'll give me
a great attorney, and they gave me a sorry, worthless attorney.
And I wish I had been selfish and told her, yeah,
I want you to be all want to represent me
the whole way. It's probably not too late to do that. Well,
(19:40):
I mean, if you speak to her, I need all
the help I can get, apparently, because this is just
I mean, this guy's he's not really a I mean
need a criminal attorney. It says that on his letter
head here, but it's first says a personal injury and
then criminal defense and then certified me came. Have you
reached out to Kobe at to say, no, you just
just got the information from you last and I'm gonna
go up here and get it on the computer tonight,
(20:02):
and trying to shoot her, Uh it's an email or
I'm really gonna give on my counselor trying to give
it A couple of attorney calls this week to where
I can get the bottom is that's reached out to
Kobe Becker, Dylan's lawyer from Colorado, to see if she
could offer Dylan any advice. Is it normal for what's
happening with Florida rearing its headed this way? I don't
(20:24):
know that I would associate anything with Florida and the
criminal justice system is being quote unquote normal. Um. But
what I can say is that what happens at the
state level is if there is a federal case, we
basically say, so these charges have always been in existence
(20:45):
is by understanding in Florida, and so they didn't They
had already charged him as what my understanding is, but
they never brought him there because you know, we kind
of I don't use the term joke, but we always
sort of off handedly comment like once our clients go
in the federal system, they're sort of lost and we
(21:07):
don't we can never get them back. And so I
don't know why Florida is coming up now other than
he could be. I think he's nearing the halfway point
of his sentence, even with good time and earn time.
I actually have contacted some of my friends in the
(21:29):
Florida area to try to find him a criminal defense
attorney in his county, and I'm thankful to know so
many people, so I'm hoping to get him somebody that
can do something better than what the offer is there now,
because that's just ridiculous and they're actually asking for it.
To be served consecutive. I think my understanding is to
(21:52):
the federal system, and that's just completely assent. Is there
any opportunity, I mean, with good behavior and everything else
in a Florida isn't what's the earliest he could get out,
even with good time and earned time, He'd have to
serve of his sentence before his paro eligible. And I
think that's right in the federal system. In the state
(22:13):
of Colorado at seventy five percent. But because our prisons
are so overcrowded here in Colorado, the state legislature enacted
a new law I believe that went into effect last
year twenty and that law basically says that the Department
of Corrections can determine despite the statue providing for sev
(22:38):
the Department of Corrections is actually the ones that can
determine when their parole eligible through time, comp etcetera. So
a lot of our seventy five percent statutory sentences are
going down to sixty or fifty percent. Here again, is
still maker Shawn McEwen speaking with Beth. You met them
(22:58):
eight years ago. You see a difference in them now.
I mean when you start talking, they were two years
into this prison sentence. Is there a big difference in them?
Is it's the same. Do they seem hopeful? Do they
seem more hopeless? Yeah? I see a big difference. You know,
as far as the difference in how they are now
compared to how they were years ago, I think there
(23:21):
was you know, I felt like I was talking to
kids still. Again, this is from my perspective, whereas now
I feel like they have matured, they have aged, and
with that has come wisdom and perspective, and they're cleaner
figuratively and literally. So with that, I think they have
clarity of mind and there is remorse for what they
(23:42):
did in the decisions that they don't think they had
a clear understanding of what this time stretcher really meant.
I mean, I think when you talk to somebody who's young,
who's in their late late teens, early twenties, and you
talk about like, oh, the next ten years, the next
twenty years, that does sound like a lifetime to them,
but they don't really get it. This again, is Lee
Grace on her life behind bars? Well, prison is is
(24:07):
like this. It is basically a warehouse. You know, you
have your room, you have your door, you have your locker,
it's just a big storage facility where you just sit
in the same unit pretty much all day long, all
night long, and you just do your time day for day.
And they do have a prescription till line. You know
(24:29):
that you go and get your pill line medications. But
are any of these medications very good? No, they are
the we call them psychments. Basically, they are a lot
of medications that you cannot overdoes on medications you really
can't abuse. It's a lot of Prozac, a lot of Zoloff,
(24:53):
a lot of sarah quill or transdone or Laville, drugs
that make you sleep, drugs that make you gain weight.
Here's Ryan on how prison has changed him. Yeah, it's
just changed me funnally, fundamentally as a person. You know,
at my core, I'm still a really sweet, amenable guy, right,
but a lot of that and I don't know if
(25:14):
it's just from youth or whatever, but just got scrubbed
out of me. It's like I don't got that anymore.
My patience level is some ship and then I don't know,
you just learned that, like violence is really one of
the few ways to really communicate your point in here,
and like it's just have been a really nice thing that, like,
I haven't had to do anything in a few years,
so that's been nice. But it's it's still is prison.
(25:35):
This is Dylan on some things he's learned in prison.
It's like a third World country if there was the
Third World country on Mars. It's a weird little micro
constantly living. There's this whole social structure. I've learned a
lot since I've been here. I've learned a lot about
the people. He amplifies that you were before you came
to prison. When you come to prison, I think it
brings out whatever character qualities you had, It brings those
(25:58):
out poll more. You know, when Beth last spoke with Dylan,
he was in the Shoe, which is the special housing
unit within the prison. There was one story that you
were in the shoe for some sort of altercation with
your cell mate, and then there was another one that
you weren't feeling well. No, no, no, neither neither to evolve.
I'm good, I am getting a transfer, I am in
(26:19):
the shoe, but no, I'm fine. Things good. I can
only imagine when Lee Race told you sometimes she's a
sucking Indian. I found out pretty quick quick where you
went I just didn't understand why, and then wanted to
make sure you're okay because there was like a health question. Yeah, yeah,
I thought I fell getting out of rack. I have
just scarred by my eye right now, cossion. I went
(26:40):
to the hospital, Alpi Medical, to the street. But did
they spells are gone. I'm good. I don't have me
bringing in my ear anymore. So I'm just you know,
was just you know, lateen, laten and concussion issues and
they're go gone. Towards the end of their final interview,
Beth asked Dylan about his feelings of loyalty towards his family.
(27:02):
There's nothing wrong with putting your loved ones before other people.
You know, a lot of people are gonna, you know,
I think that's gonna like scratch their ear, and that's
the politically incorrect thing to say. But if I mean,
a woman should care about hurt children more than some
random person, and individual person should care about their family
(27:24):
more than just some random person. And that's that's my person.
But yeah, I'm all right. Uh, is there anything to
do for you? Yeah, I've come open to do are
so I can have some fresh air. You know, it's
(27:48):
it's a part of prison, you know, and there's the
show is a real fucked up spot. You know, you
just it's it's a prison within a prison, and you
really have you have absolutely nothing. Ryan is just as
devoted to family, and it becomes even more apparent when
he speaks about his now ten year old son. I've
just drilled it into into him unmercifully, along with the
(28:10):
fact that I love and I'm proud of him everything
that he does, but that you know, you want to
get a good education because there is a big difference
between doing what you want to do and doing what
you have to do. And people that don't have a
good education have limited options. It's not that you can't
succeed without an education, because you can't, it's just becomes
(28:32):
It's just it keeps options open. It's always nice in
life when you have options. It seems like you're full
on parenting from where you are trying to give him
what I was missing, and I'm trying to give him
everything I knew when I was twenty by the time
he's done. That's your job as a parent to try
and protect and look out for your kids, and like
(28:53):
I fail miserably at it because I'm not there. The
most important thing about being a parent is being rather
than being there, and I'm not physically there. Here's executive
producer Joseph Morgan. When you see images of a child,
as that child grows, you're not a part of that timeline.
You're not gonna soothe them when they're crying at night.
(29:15):
You're not gonna feed them. You're not gonna be there
to put the bike together that you want to convince
them at Santa Claus bro You're not gonna be there
for all that. You're not gonna be there to see
your your mama age out. And that's tragic. That's truly
the tragedy. Let's stop here for another quick break. We'll
(29:38):
be back at a moment. The Dougherty siblings are not
permitted to make outgoing calls to one another. They can
only communicate through letters, emails and through this podcast. Here
(30:00):
stockerty mother, Barbara Belle. I've had ten years and have
never had my say. Not once in ten years has
anyone asked me what happened my opinion. So I have
had ten years to think about what I want to
say about my children, and I want to say three things.
(30:25):
Number One, they never tried to harm anyone. They just
wanted to get away. They were all sharpshooters, So if
they had really tried to kill anyone, that person would
be dead. They did not kill anyone. Number Two, League Race,
Dylan and Ryan are not damaged goods. They are good, caring,
(30:52):
decent people who got all worked up in the middle
of the night with the threat of Ryan going to prison.
They felt they couldn't spare another family member lost to
death or prison. So with the threat of family annihilation
moving over them, they egged each other on and once
(31:15):
they got started, its snowballs and they felt they couldn't
turn back. And number three, they are different people now.
They regret what they did and they need to be
out here making a valuable contribution to society instead of
costing the taxpayers a hundred dollars a day each to
(31:37):
keep them in federal housing. And I guess that's about
all I have to say. Dylan and Lee Grace have
open cases in the Florida courts and they may face
more time. Lee Grace is currently thirty nine ineligible for parole.
In Ryan wanted me tell you that he loves you, Okay,
tell him I love him. She loved you, yes you
(32:00):
oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, And I told you to
tell her the same thing. Dylan is currently thirty six
and eligible for parole. In I might be talking to
like Grace later, do you already tell or anything? I
just tell her, I said, I love her and what
she already knows. But just tell her, I said, what's up?
And I hope she's doing good. And Ryan is thirty
one and eligible for parole. Let's just be real, right
(32:25):
between you and me. I ruined their lives and they
would have been much better off without me and them,
right had I not been born, or had I not
involved them, or had I not caused that situation. You know,
it's just some things just are what they are, no
matter how dressed, how dressed up you make it. You know,
I ruined my brother and sister's life and they don't
(32:46):
deserve to be there and not gladly take like a
death penalty for them to go home. Right now, I
love them dearly. These were kids who, in a way
we're part of a system, and their perception was the
system failed them, And we can look at it now
and maybe realize that there is truth in that. You
(33:10):
look back and you sit in judgment of the people
that were in charge, not so much law enforcement, but corrections,
I think probation those individuals. You have one sparkly moment
in tom where you can exercise something that's a beautiful thing.
It's called mercy. For me, the one thing that I
(33:33):
would want people to take away from the story is
and some of it was responsible for this with their choices,
and some of it was truly circumstance. More on that
next time. If you're over eighteen years old and want
to see pictures of Lee Grace and Ryan Dougherty or
find their addresses to write them in prison, go to
(33:53):
our instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. If you're enjoying this podcast,
please listen and subscribe to Crazy in Love, Katie Studio's
latest true crime podcast. The Dougherty Gang is executive produced
by Stephanie lie Decker and me Courtney Armstrong, along with
Beth Greenwald, Sean McEwen, and Joseph Morgan. Editing and sound
(34:14):
design is by Jeff Twa, additional producing by Chris Graves
and Jeff Shane. The Docortor Gang is a production of
I Heart Radio and Katie Studios. For more podcasts from
my heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
My hopes and dreams are to finish my prison terms
sooner than my sentence is judged by the federal government.
I hope I can get out and do positive things
as a human being. I want to reunite with my
brothers and sister and have a close relationship with all
of them. I want to rebuild the trust that they
once had for me. I want a house in Texas
(00:23):
or Florida where I can have a small property. I
also want to travel and see Europe, Australia, the Philippines, Alaska,
and buy a boat and explore the South Pacific for
wreckage to recover and sell to antique dealers. I also
want to begin another career as a photographer for models
(00:43):
and wedding parties. I would like to work in healthcare
or a home business where I can work hard, make money,
and succeed in life. Welcome to The Dockerty Gang, a
production of I Heart Radio and Katie Studios Episode eleven,
Third World Country on Mars. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a crime
(01:07):
producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie lie Decker. We've been
working with producer Beth Greenwald on The Dougherty Gang for
months now. These three siblings have agreed to tell their
story for the very first time, each from separate prisons.
Lee Grace Docherty is at the Federal Correction Institute Aliceville
in Alabama. Ryan Docherty is in the U S Penitentiary
(01:30):
Tucson in Arizona, and Dylan Docherty is currently at the
United States Prison of Atlanta in Georgia. The podcast You
are about to Hear contains explicit language and mature content
that some listeners may find offensive. Let's call to think
that I am a good person. Yeah, maybe I've done
from my family. Isn't one of them. You know, maybe
(01:53):
I would like to change though the way that I
was there. But I'll never say I'm sorry for I'm kind.
I'm not I'm not sorry for being a My family
marks the tenure anniversary of the Dougherty family Crimes Free.
Despite the fact that they're only able to communicate via email,
their devotion remains intact. This is producer Beth Greenwald on
(02:14):
with Ryan in one of their final interviews. It's not
like Good Fellows. We didn't just get like some fresh
pudo and fucking some loaves of bread and a couple
of bottles of wine. It's not like that. This ship
is very fucking uh there and they're kind of off
stir or whatever the fucking word is. And you got
like a few clothes. You might have like a pair
(02:35):
of shoes, you might have some of your personal photos
in a little bit of food, Like you don't really
have anything. I really is in like a concrete block
room with like a metal locker than painted gun metal gray.
Everything is white on gray everywhere except for some blue
accent for like where the phones are at and where
the doors are at. Right, besides that, the same aryact color.
(02:59):
And it's like it's seen know, there's no windows. Cloths
are easily acceptable like that. It's super eutilitarian, Like they're
tu bunks in the room that's like I don't know,
seven feet by nine feet, right, there's a toilet in
the stink and and there you go. You've got like
a couple of uniforms that they give you, and give
you a pair of boots that are sucking made out
(03:19):
of like cardboard and like dead animals. Like it's very minimal.
That's all on how you look at it. When's the
last time I had to cook the dinner? I don't
have to cook the dinner. Somebody else cooks dinner for me.
What's the last time I washed my you know, my clothes.
I don't have to. I can put him in the
bag and somebody else wash us. So we have to
clean the bathroom in the shower, somebody does that. I
(03:42):
don't have to sweepelf before or somebody else does that.
You know what I mean? I want to a close
side and you know, play horseshoes or you know, basketball
or botchy ball or half a dozen other things. I
know means that I like being in prison. I'm just
saying as far as you kind of shift your reality.
And one time I came and I said something to
(04:03):
my attorney and she's like, oh, why are you so happy?
You know? And I, hell, yeah, I had thirty two
years in Colorado. This is my federal attorney. And you know,
I'm looking at a you know, a crazy sent spare
with the beds, and I was like, well, you know,
I said, you know, I focused on what I do have,
not on you know, and she's like, well, what else
you don't have? And I was like, well, if I
focused all the things I didn't have, I'm ansoes go
(04:23):
back to the unit. And you know, tied sheet around
the rail and jump over. Here's Lee Grace giving her
take on life in prison. The first year is really
hard because you're a gap thing. But once you adapt
and you can see things and your vision becomes clear
about how people really are and how the officers really aren't,
how the unit team really are, and the people that
work in the prison system, everything gets so much worse
(04:46):
because you see the reality, you see the honesty. So
I've been here about eight, eight or nine years. She's
I need to count, but I think eight years. And
where were you before that? I was in Hazelton, a
small within prison in West Virginia. It's a federal facility. Well,
I mean they're both federal facilities, but I've been in
(05:07):
I was in county before that, so that causes a
lot of confusion. State and said are completely different type
of prison. Ryan is having a harder go of it
in prison. But I ended up doing timing about six
different county jails in Georgia. Why are they when they
heard that? Like, I was having a hard out time
in making because making took me from in bib County jail.
(05:30):
There's a murder every time they run wrecked there like
somebody dies, somebody gets stabbed at death. Like it's more
violent than any of the prisons I've ever been to.
It's like rats all over the floor and cockroaches, and
you'd be lucky if you get a mattress, Like there's
no food. It took me from two hundred thirty seven
pounds to a hundred and fifty eight pounds and a
little less than six months, so you do the math.
Marshall came and picked me up and didn't recognize me.
(05:52):
He's like, what the funk happened? And I told him
it was like, bro, listen, when I get in the
van with you right now, y'all are gonna have to
beat the funk out of me and taste for me
in order to get me to go back into that
county jail. Ryan is in protective custody at his prison
due to being charged with sending a minor harmful information
and loud moss of his conduct. It was the original
case that tipped off the entire crime spree. The yard
(06:16):
where I'm out currently is like splits, like seventy job
molesters and other either gang dropout, rat, hit the wrong person,
bad luck, drug that you know, take pick or choose.
But anyways, right you cut it, you're not good you know,
and you're not in good standing, so you end up here.
And this is like the bottom of the barrel. So
(06:37):
like I look at these people would disdain because the
ones that like, let's call the ones that like raped
their two year old daughter. You know, I think they
should burn in hell. But you know, it's not my
place to judge or punish them, like that's that's not
my deal. And then for me at like a regular yard,
somebody would look at me for fucking a fifteen year
old stick when I was eighteen, and it's the same
(06:58):
as they would look at one of these people that
suck the ju world, you know, when they were forty.
It doesn't there's no differentiation in their eyes. I mean
in the beginning, you're a good looking guys. You get
into jail, it's twenty something years old. Are you protecting
at all in anyway? But no, No, it's predatory as ship.
(07:18):
Let's protect your own asshole with a knife forget raped.
I mean it's one of the two. Lee Grace has
their own opinion of the women's prison. These are women
that have fat on their asses and couches all day,
you know, selling drugs out of their out of their basement.
These aren't athletic, strong, strapping women from Alaska. These are fat,
overweight people from the South, so they're not good fighters.
(07:40):
Men can kill somebody and women can't. Well, it would
take a lot for somebody a woman. There's not very
much violence. Women are all bullshit and talk and physically
they're weak, so they can't. It's hard for them to
kill somebody. This call is from a federal prison. Men
can just snap your neck or you know, stabby in
the artery and just you know, rip your heart out.
(08:02):
So women don't really fight with weapons and men do.
So once you get a shank in your hand, it's
really easy to flip somebody's throat. Meanwhile, Ryan is living
in fear, like there's been a few stabbings recently, and
there's been a few people hitting the head with locks,
and there's been a few people kicked in the head
with boots, and like, the majority of that violence is
(08:23):
either because of gay stuff or people owing money, or
just people not wanting to be here. That's steered the
conversation with Ryan to work. But what about the people
then you know the other prisoners that work, do they
make a wage that volunteer based? How does that work?
It's volunteer based. It's work if you want to. They're
(08:46):
trying to pay the dudes like eighteen dollars months to
clean ten showers twice a day, five days a week, right,
and it's like you gotta get in there and you
gotta scrub, and like people are nasty. There's like jizz
or fucking used razors or like a pubic care ball
the size of a raccoon in the corner. It's just agreed.
Just man, here's Dylan talking about his day to day life.
(09:07):
I just changed jobs. You know. I used to work
on the rack yard. Was king water keg build up
the water kigs, and I know that's something like wow, well,
I mean what is that? You know, when you have
five people in the yard and there's you know, ten
ten gallon kigs push at least three Olympic swimming pools
of water up that girl in the six years that
I've been out there, so I recently went to facilities.
(09:29):
Thank you all the plumbing, electrical. If you realize that
the prison is, you know, the maintenantonent is kept up
by the you know, the inmate population. We didn't work,
they couldn't keep us locked up. But but I went
to facilities that Bunny might got me a job down there.
It's weirdy one way that, you know, maintaining the cage
that keeps me, but it also gives me a chance
(09:51):
to do stuff that I used to do on the
street and feel productive. Here's beout speaking with Ryan about
how different events in his life have shaped to my
the person. Let me ask you something. When you look
at this big picture, is there a moment that if
things like just a little differently, this wouldn't have been
the story? Oh man, you know what. Yeah, there's pivot
(10:14):
points in everyone's life. There's big watershed moments, right and
I guess the first one is the youngest one. When
I was a kid and my father died, you know,
seven years old, fam right then and there, that's a
big momentum the car accident where I broke my neck
and I smashed my head and I have a dramatic
brain injury from that. Um. That's another one that's kind
of where I fell in love with opiates, from sucking
(10:35):
breaking my back and having to take oxycotton and morphine
and ship because my back hurt. And then uh, let's
see what else here, Oh, when my sister died. That
was a vicious one because man, if you want to
talk about a completely different person, that's where it felt
like I developed two separate personalities that go on in
my head at any given time. While Ryan remembers his pain,
(10:56):
Dylan tries to remain positive. You know a lot of
people big they you know, they have a lot of
regrets and and and the whole you know, everything is
it's a negative. And it does not for you know,
it's just not me. And so I don't really dwell
on the situation a lot. And when I really sit
down and think about it, sometimes it does kind of
pluck out my heart stream. Annie Armstrung me out as
(11:19):
a psychotherapist who has followed the Dougherty story closely. More
adverse experience as a kid has loss of a parent,
substance abuse in the home, separation, you know of siblings,
those things all would be considered adverse experiences. So the
higher doses of adversity, they do affect the pleasure and
(11:40):
reward center of the brain. And what happens is the
person needs a higher dose of whatever that pleasure stimulant
is in order to feel pleasure, and so people who
have higher amounts of adverse childhood experiences are way more
likely to be involved in risky behavior. In one of
(12:02):
her last interviews with Lee, Grace's attorney Patrick McCarville, that
spoke with him about Marfan syndrome, the genetic cart disorder
that runs in the Dougherty family, and how that may
have affected her family's choices in life. You know, they
lost dead, they lost sister both to Marfan syndrome. You know,
at least in your conversation with Lee, did she feel
(12:23):
like she didn't ever longed to live or she you know,
was that a huge factor in her actions? Absolutely? I
think the night that they hatched this plan, I believe
they discussed that they didn't believe that they would live
as long as most people because of that hereditary disease,
(12:46):
and that was a factor in what caused them to
do these crimes. They were going to get out of
Dodge and go live happily ever after together as a
family with what all time they thought they had left.
Sean McEwan is a filmmaker who wrote and directed a
feature film about the Doughertyes. He's also a friend to
(13:08):
the trio. I think what strikes me at this point,
kind of revisiting the story and kind of seeing it
through a lens of the perspective of a decade later,
is that I vacillate between two truths. One is the
tragedy that they didn't accomplish their objective. While I'm very
(13:29):
glad no one got injured and could have. But the
tragedy that, apparently and everything that they say is all
about the fact that they just wanted to be together
and be safe and get the heck out of Dodge
and try to forge this new life and that didn't happen.
And then yet and maybe I'm just trying to be
(13:51):
the total optimist here in some sense, but they they
still have this bond. That bond is stronger than ever.
You can hear it, and the way they retell the
stories you can hear it, and how strong the feelings
are toward each other. So in spite of it all,
nothing could separate them. They are still figuratively still together.
(14:12):
Their ten years into their sentences, but they've done thirty years.
That's how they think of the others. There that intertwined
that when you add it up, that's thirty years of
them all being apart, not spending time together, you know.
And by the some of this, it's years of that,
you know, when you compound it like that, And I
think that's what's so interesting. Also, they're not going to
have that opportunity to really beating each other's lives, and
(14:34):
that's all they really ever wanted. We're going to take
a quick break here. We'll be back in a moment.
Although the docerty has pled their cases, the Florida courts
(14:54):
have not settled with Dylan and Lee. Grace. Ryan is
the only one of the siblings who are a you
play out in Florida. Here's Beth speaking with Dylan. This
call was from the federal prison. This call, it's from
Dylan family. You may begin speaking now, Hey, how are
you doing. I'm in a really bad mood now, not
(15:18):
just kind of a legal letter from my new attorney
that I have in Florida, and um, I don't know
what is going on down there, but yeah, what what
does the letter say? Well, I've had to learn that
apparently much time so I could start until I get
this case resolved. And so like, I don't know, I
was on any impression that they would it would you know,
(15:40):
I would start from the moment that I was InCAR
story would just come up on ten years now. So
he's saying that I'm not I get creative for the
time that I've served already, which is just unacceptable because
it you know, forty years since. So only they they're
offered me with a twenty five year minimal menatory with
another fifteen years recurrent want to I want to play
charged second secondary to the attempted murder police officers. So
(16:04):
uh yeah, I just just uh, I don't know. It
was crazy. Dylan has been serving his sentences concurrently, and
this letter revealed that he may face even more time
in Florida. But the real question is why did it
take so long? Ten years later they're deciding to do this, Well,
I mean ten years, they haven't done anything. They just
(16:26):
sort of they have. They never came to get me,
They never you know what I mean. They just whenever
I go to a new institution, they relodge a detainer
against me. And it's just like, I don't know, they
were just waiting for waiting for me to get out
and then have the State troopers come quickly up after
serve you know, thirty years in the FEDS or you know,
I don't know, it's really weird. I just emailed my
brother and so I got that and asked him if
(16:47):
they have started his time in two thousand and eleven
or if that is indeed what they did, because he
didn't he didn't get the case result until two thousand
and fourteen. But it's definitely, you know, it's not good news.
How long do you have this lawyer I'm working on this,
he just started. I just kind of you know, because
I was I was wanting to get this all resolved
before all these other things, you know, work out, and
(17:11):
I just want to kind of wanted it behind me
and you know, a bow tied on it, and then
I could have you know, a day and uh, you know,
and and start working towards that, you know, the definitive day.
You know. It's definitely disheartening because if that's true, that's true,
I I'm I have to take it a trial. I'm
not gonna you know what I mean, she just if
nothing shakes out with my stay cake and then you're
(17:32):
talking to ten ten years, it's dead time. It's kind
of just so it's you know, that just that puts
me at you know, six eight seventy years old. Do
we know we we don't know if Lee Grace that
a letter as well? Right, talk to her, you know
what I mean, letter show explain to you what her
attorneys told her. She said that her attorney back, she
had so hard. You're up there and you know, sucking
(17:53):
a lask her, you know, moth Ambique and we really
you know, we don't have a mule train to come
get you. Just you know, I don't know, I don't
understand why it's so hard. You know, I mean I've
been in the same institution for uh seven years or
six years, uh probably you know, uh not even three
miles from the support state line, you know what I mean. Uh,
if this was a big deal to them, and my
(18:15):
my whole mindset on it was let it sit and
that the that the you know, it was a rolling boil,
the oil it boiled over on the stove and it
was you know, I was just like, well, let's just
let it kind of simmered down, and you know what
I mean, I can go down there and and can
get taken care of, you know, seven or eight, nine,
ten years and you know, maybe to be halfway forgotten
and people won't you know, you know, I felt like
(18:37):
time was you know, time heals all wounds or whatever.
Dylan's new attorney, the man who sent him the letter
was recommended by a fellow inmate. The first thing he
opens up with is is, you know, I built a
half hower for this, and I build a half power
for that. And I was over here for fifteen minutes
and I was over there for forty five minutes. So
I mean he's opened up with his his breakdown on
(18:57):
the building and you know, and says that, you know,
my so and so is gonna, you know, is takeing
care of the charges. And you know it's funny Kobe Becker,
who I have all the admiration in respect for, and
I can't thank her enough. You know, she was more
than willing to do it. She said, it's only on
her fifty hours from her to get her federal stamp
(19:19):
for the Middle District of Georgia or whatever the hell
it was. And you know, I looking at her as
the first time mom, I was, I was working that
selfish and I said, no, I'm sure they'll give me
a great attorney, and they gave me a sorry, worthless attorney.
And I wish I had been selfish and told her, yeah,
I want you to be all want to represent me
the whole way. It's probably not too late to do that. Well,
(19:40):
I mean, if you speak to her, I need all
the help I can get, apparently, because this is just
I mean, this guy's he's not really a I mean
need a criminal attorney. It says that on his letter
head here, but it's first says a personal injury and
then criminal defense and then certified me came. Have you
reached out to Kobe at to say, no, you just
just got the information from you last and I'm gonna
go up here and get it on the computer tonight,
(20:02):
and trying to shoot her, Uh it's an email or
I'm really gonna give on my counselor trying to give
it A couple of attorney calls this week to where
I can get the bottom is that's reached out to
Kobe Becker, Dylan's lawyer from Colorado, to see if she
could offer Dylan any advice. Is it normal for what's
happening with Florida rearing its headed this way? I don't
(20:24):
know that I would associate anything with Florida and the
criminal justice system is being quote unquote normal. Um. But
what I can say is that what happens at the
state level is if there is a federal case, we
basically say, so these charges have always been in existence
(20:45):
is by understanding in Florida, and so they didn't They
had already charged him as what my understanding is, but
they never brought him there because you know, we kind
of I don't use the term joke, but we always
sort of off handedly comment like once our clients go
in the federal system, they're sort of lost and we
(21:07):
don't we can never get them back. And so I
don't know why Florida is coming up now other than
he could be. I think he's nearing the halfway point
of his sentence, even with good time and earn time.
I actually have contacted some of my friends in the
(21:29):
Florida area to try to find him a criminal defense
attorney in his county, and I'm thankful to know so
many people, so I'm hoping to get him somebody that
can do something better than what the offer is there now,
because that's just ridiculous and they're actually asking for it.
To be served consecutive. I think my understanding is to
(21:52):
the federal system, and that's just completely assent. Is there
any opportunity, I mean, with good behavior and everything else
in a Florida isn't what's the earliest he could get out,
even with good time and earned time, He'd have to
serve of his sentence before his paro eligible. And I
think that's right in the federal system. In the state
(22:13):
of Colorado at seventy five percent. But because our prisons
are so overcrowded here in Colorado, the state legislature enacted
a new law I believe that went into effect last
year twenty and that law basically says that the Department
of Corrections can determine despite the statue providing for sev
(22:38):
the Department of Corrections is actually the ones that can
determine when their parole eligible through time, comp etcetera. So
a lot of our seventy five percent statutory sentences are
going down to sixty or fifty percent. Here again, is
still maker Shawn McEwen speaking with Beth. You met them
(22:58):
eight years ago. You see a difference in them now.
I mean when you start talking, they were two years
into this prison sentence. Is there a big difference in them?
Is it's the same. Do they seem hopeful? Do they
seem more hopeless? Yeah? I see a big difference. You know,
as far as the difference in how they are now
compared to how they were years ago, I think there
(23:21):
was you know, I felt like I was talking to
kids still. Again, this is from my perspective, whereas now
I feel like they have matured, they have aged, and
with that has come wisdom and perspective, and they're cleaner
figuratively and literally. So with that, I think they have
clarity of mind and there is remorse for what they
(23:42):
did in the decisions that they don't think they had
a clear understanding of what this time stretcher really meant.
I mean, I think when you talk to somebody who's young,
who's in their late late teens, early twenties, and you
talk about like, oh, the next ten years, the next
twenty years, that does sound like a lifetime to them,
but they don't really get it. This again, is Lee
Grace on her life behind bars? Well, prison is is
(24:07):
like this. It is basically a warehouse. You know, you
have your room, you have your door, you have your locker,
it's just a big storage facility where you just sit
in the same unit pretty much all day long, all
night long, and you just do your time day for day.
And they do have a prescription till line. You know
(24:29):
that you go and get your pill line medications. But
are any of these medications very good? No, they are
the we call them psychments. Basically, they are a lot
of medications that you cannot overdoes on medications you really
can't abuse. It's a lot of Prozac, a lot of Zoloff,
(24:53):
a lot of sarah quill or transdone or Laville, drugs
that make you sleep, drugs that make you gain weight.
Here's Ryan on how prison has changed him. Yeah, it's
just changed me funnally, fundamentally as a person. You know,
at my core, I'm still a really sweet, amenable guy, right,
but a lot of that and I don't know if
(25:14):
it's just from youth or whatever, but just got scrubbed
out of me. It's like I don't got that anymore.
My patience level is some ship and then I don't know,
you just learned that, like violence is really one of
the few ways to really communicate your point in here,
and like it's just have been a really nice thing that, like,
I haven't had to do anything in a few years,
so that's been nice. But it's it's still is prison.
(25:35):
This is Dylan on some things he's learned in prison.
It's like a third World country if there was the
Third World country on Mars. It's a weird little micro
constantly living. There's this whole social structure. I've learned a
lot since I've been here. I've learned a lot about
the people. He amplifies that you were before you came
to prison. When you come to prison, I think it
brings out whatever character qualities you had, It brings those
(25:58):
out poll more. You know, when Beth last spoke with Dylan,
he was in the Shoe, which is the special housing
unit within the prison. There was one story that you
were in the shoe for some sort of altercation with
your cell mate, and then there was another one that
you weren't feeling well. No, no, no, neither neither to evolve.
I'm good, I am getting a transfer, I am in
(26:19):
the shoe, but no, I'm fine. Things good. I can
only imagine when Lee Race told you sometimes she's a
sucking Indian. I found out pretty quick quick where you
went I just didn't understand why, and then wanted to
make sure you're okay because there was like a health question. Yeah, yeah,
I thought I fell getting out of rack. I have
just scarred by my eye right now, cossion. I went
(26:40):
to the hospital, Alpi Medical, to the street. But did
they spells are gone. I'm good. I don't have me
bringing in my ear anymore. So I'm just you know,
was just you know, lateen, laten and concussion issues and
they're go gone. Towards the end of their final interview,
Beth asked Dylan about his feelings of loyalty towards his family.
(27:02):
There's nothing wrong with putting your loved ones before other people.
You know, a lot of people are gonna, you know,
I think that's gonna like scratch their ear, and that's
the politically incorrect thing to say. But if I mean,
a woman should care about hurt children more than some
random person, and individual person should care about their family
(27:24):
more than just some random person. And that's that's my person.
But yeah, I'm all right. Uh, is there anything to
do for you? Yeah, I've come open to do are
so I can have some fresh air. You know, it's
(27:48):
it's a part of prison, you know, and there's the
show is a real fucked up spot. You know, you
just it's it's a prison within a prison, and you
really have you have absolutely nothing. Ryan is just as
devoted to family, and it becomes even more apparent when
he speaks about his now ten year old son. I've
just drilled it into into him unmercifully, along with the
(28:10):
fact that I love and I'm proud of him everything
that he does, but that you know, you want to
get a good education because there is a big difference
between doing what you want to do and doing what
you have to do. And people that don't have a
good education have limited options. It's not that you can't
succeed without an education, because you can't, it's just becomes
(28:32):
It's just it keeps options open. It's always nice in
life when you have options. It seems like you're full
on parenting from where you are trying to give him
what I was missing, and I'm trying to give him
everything I knew when I was twenty by the time
he's done. That's your job as a parent to try
and protect and look out for your kids, and like
(28:53):
I fail miserably at it because I'm not there. The
most important thing about being a parent is being rather
than being there, and I'm not physically there. Here's executive
producer Joseph Morgan. When you see images of a child,
as that child grows, you're not a part of that timeline.
You're not gonna soothe them when they're crying at night.
(29:15):
You're not gonna feed them. You're not gonna be there
to put the bike together that you want to convince
them at Santa Claus bro You're not gonna be there
for all that. You're not gonna be there to see
your your mama age out. And that's tragic. That's truly
the tragedy. Let's stop here for another quick break. We'll
(29:38):
be back at a moment. The Dougherty siblings are not
permitted to make outgoing calls to one another. They can
only communicate through letters, emails and through this podcast. Here
(30:00):
stockerty mother, Barbara Belle. I've had ten years and have
never had my say. Not once in ten years has
anyone asked me what happened my opinion. So I have
had ten years to think about what I want to
say about my children, and I want to say three things.
(30:25):
Number One, they never tried to harm anyone. They just
wanted to get away. They were all sharpshooters, So if
they had really tried to kill anyone, that person would
be dead. They did not kill anyone. Number Two, League Race,
Dylan and Ryan are not damaged goods. They are good, caring,
(30:52):
decent people who got all worked up in the middle
of the night with the threat of Ryan going to prison.
They felt they couldn't spare another family member lost to
death or prison. So with the threat of family annihilation
moving over them, they egged each other on and once
(31:15):
they got started, its snowballs and they felt they couldn't
turn back. And number three, they are different people now.
They regret what they did and they need to be
out here making a valuable contribution to society instead of
costing the taxpayers a hundred dollars a day each to
(31:37):
keep them in federal housing. And I guess that's about
all I have to say. Dylan and Lee Grace have
open cases in the Florida courts and they may face
more time. Lee Grace is currently thirty nine ineligible for parole.
In Ryan wanted me tell you that he loves you, Okay,
tell him I love him. She loved you, yes you
(32:00):
oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, And I told you to
tell her the same thing. Dylan is currently thirty six
and eligible for parole. In I might be talking to
like Grace later, do you already tell or anything? I
just tell her, I said, I love her and what
she already knows. But just tell her, I said, what's up?
And I hope she's doing good. And Ryan is thirty
one and eligible for parole. Let's just be real, right
(32:25):
between you and me. I ruined their lives and they
would have been much better off without me and them,
right had I not been born, or had I not
involved them, or had I not caused that situation. You know,
it's just some things just are what they are, no
matter how dressed, how dressed up you make it. You know,
I ruined my brother and sister's life and they don't
(32:46):
deserve to be there and not gladly take like a
death penalty for them to go home. Right now, I
love them dearly. These were kids who, in a way
we're part of a system, and their perception was the
system failed them, And we can look at it now
and maybe realize that there is truth in that. You
(33:10):
look back and you sit in judgment of the people
that were in charge, not so much law enforcement, but corrections,
I think probation those individuals. You have one sparkly moment
in tom where you can exercise something that's a beautiful thing.
It's called mercy. For me, the one thing that I
(33:33):
would want people to take away from the story is
and some of it was responsible for this with their choices,
and some of it was truly circumstance. More on that
next time. If you're over eighteen years old and want
to see pictures of Lee Grace and Ryan Dougherty or
find their addresses to write them in prison, go to
(33:53):
our instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. If you're enjoying this podcast,
please listen and subscribe to Crazy in Love, Katie Studio's
latest true crime podcast. The Dougherty Gang is executive produced
by Stephanie lie Decker and me Courtney Armstrong, along with
Beth Greenwald, Sean McEwen, and Joseph Morgan. Editing and sound
(34:14):
design is by Jeff Twa, additional producing by Chris Graves
and Jeff Shane. The Docortor Gang is a production of
I Heart Radio and Katie Studios. For more podcasts from
my heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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