May 21, 2022 • 37 mins
Thomas parks the van outside of Bar-Bill, famous for its Buffalo wings, where he is joined by Bill's GM Brandon Beane. Thomas and Brandon discuss management, player philosophy, and Brandon shares his unique path to the GM seat.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
My name is Arial Custom Baum and I am the
founder of fair meals. Five, Oh, one, C, three, status
nonprofit that focuses on easy, healthy and affordable meal solutions
for families of all walks of life. On our website,
fair meals dot org, you can find, free of charge,
tons of tips, tricks and recipes that encompass our three
(00:21):
pillars of health, ease and affordability. To help continue to
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donating to this amazing initiative at fair meals dot org.
Forward slash donate. Okay, I hope you guys like that
(00:44):
trip through Kansas City and spend at some time with
Bret PGA again. Really impressive what he's done and how
he's adapted to the situation there, and he's built some
great teams. Watch him in the future. He's got a very,
very bright future. Welcome to the GM journey. With Thomas Tomtrof,
we will travel all the way up, and I say
(01:05):
all the way up, to buffalo to meet with Brandon,
being very impressive general manager. I know I continue to
say that, but these guys are all all beyond they
offer so much to this league. I'm so glad that
we're able to spotlight them all. Brandon bean is one
of those guys, very similar to Howie Roseman and Mickey loomis.
He's a business guy by trade. More learned the ropes
(01:27):
very quickly. A very bright guy, of course, m very communicative,
a very good modern day leader, very empathic as far
as the way that he leads his group. He gets
along with his head coach very, very well. They're able
to know the lines, they're able to share very well
and you'll realize in the conversations with Brandon being you
know how intelligent he is, how much insight he has,
(01:49):
and he's able to pull it all together and put
together some great teams. I mean right now, the buffalo
bills are one of the teams in the NFL to
beat and Brandon bean is a very, very important part
of that bill living process. All Right, here we are,
east Aurora, Slash Buffalo, in front of Bar Bill Tavern
with my good friend and stellar GM Brandon Bean. Thanks
(02:12):
for joining me. I really appreciate it. It It now, this
is cool. This say is I'm glad you you made
the trek man. It's UH. I would have loved to
been in the car where you just see all your
sites and we've you know, I've been traveling like a
madman and I started, I started all the way in Atlanta,
around Tampa, through the southern coast, so to speak, all
the way up to the West Coast and here we are,
all the way out in Buffalo. This is kind of
(02:33):
my old neck of the woods. Wasn't from Buffalo, of course,
but having lived in Canada, up in Hamilton's and Toronto,
I spent a lot of time in and out of here.
We would always come into town searching for wings, searching
for you know, you know all the Canadians. I'm not Canadian,
I lived there for a long time, but all the
Canadians would come in and shop. Right did go to
the outlet malls? Yeah, that was a big deal for them. Right. Well, you,
(02:55):
you've probably shoveled your way out of a few snowstorms
here too. I have. I have. Well, look, let's jump
into this. How does a boy from Norwood, North Carolina,
feel thriving in a very football town up here? I
mean it's it's been really, really Um admirable how you've
(03:16):
approached everything here and you're doing so well. You have
three out of four winning seasons right, you were executive
the year this year, horrigan award winner this year. I know,
I know, it's amazing, like things are just really going
well and falling into place. But how does that feel? Yeah,
if it feels great, it's I can't say when I
was growing up in Norwood that I had it myself
(03:37):
mapped out to end up in Buffalo New York, but, uh,
it's been a great fit for me and Um, I
had the good fortune to, you know, to learn the
business in Carolina, you know, near my home area, and
then to get a chance to come up here and
this these people, as you know, you've played up here
and obviously from Canada as well, you know, from wealth
(04:00):
and I guess Um where I grew up is a
very blue collar area, and so this feels even Tho
this is a bigger area than where I grew up,
this feels like the community that I grew up in.
Just people, uh, good nature people and very blue collar
and and just uh, home fashion, country folks. Is really
(04:20):
even though we're in the north, it really feels like Um,
where I was from, or maybe like a midwestern type
of town. I think many people that are coming up
from the South never knew that we call it the
North Coast right. This is part of the North Coast
up here. It's kind of interesting. So, Brandon, tell me
about this. You came to the GM job in a
rather circuitous way. Explain that and then tell me about
(04:42):
any of the obstacles that you faced along the way.
Or maybe you didn't to get to that spot. This
is a particular league. People look at how people get
to a place and sometimes they're accepting and other times
they're they're a little cautious. Please talk about that. Yeah,
I definitely didn't do it the traditional route. You know,
I started as a PR intern for a month of
(05:04):
training camp and then I became a football ops intern
and slowly but surely Marty Hernie hired me as a
football ops manager and later promoted me to director. But, Um,
we all know the important part of scouting and that
role in most people like yourself, that's that's the path
they go. And the one thing about Marty was Marty
(05:25):
let me do things along the way to help help
get myself ready. While I was handling football ops, he
gave me the opportunity to have scouting assignments, whether it
was cutting up film for the Pro Scouts, assisting with
the college draft and whatever role it was, just to
be around it and work on that part of it
while still handling my job, which, without Marty, I wouldn't
(05:48):
be sitting here talking to you in this role. And
the crazy thing, Thomas, is Um probably one of the
biggest breaks I got was when Marty got fired, and
I hated, hated that it was. It was a sickening
moment for me the guy that gave me every chance
that I had in this league for so long. Um,
we started one in five, in two thousand twelve and
(06:10):
Jerry Richarson called me into his office that morning and
told me he had just fired Marty and I thought
he was about to tell me your next and uh,
instead he said, Um, I want you for the rest
of the season to work with Ron Rivera and get
let's get this thing turned around and and we'll figure
things out after the season. So the first guy called
was Marty Hernie. UH, closed my door and Um, he
(06:33):
typical Marty fashion, as you know him. UMS, don't worry
about me, Brandon, I'm good. I'm here to support you.
You call me any day, anytime. I'm gonna help you
through this and and that's why I'm here today. That's amazing.
I mean you think about Marty and Marty's got such
a reputation over the years. Again, streamline, you know, not
not the up and down guy, just a lot of
(06:55):
respect for him as well, of course, and the fact
that he got to his in a in a in
a maybe a different one, different way. Probably he had
a soft spot for you right, working with you on that,
I'm sure right. Yeah, I think Marty was one of
those guys he gave you assignments and he just let
you do him. He trusted you and I learned a
lot from that. And, Um, when Marty knew you had it,
(07:19):
he was always willing to give you more and I
would tell him, Marty, if you need help with this,
I'll do it. And one year he gave me two
departments budgets to handle. I knocked it out of the
park and he said, brand I'm gonna give you the
whole football ops budgets to handle and see how you do.
And he just again every every step of the way,
he continued to let me grow myself while also making
(07:41):
sure I'm taking care of my number one responsibilities. So
this is interesting because I'm a big believer in while
we're moving through our career, we have to differentiate ourselves right.
That's what's gonna make us, you know, of course, continue
to grow and learn and and and ascend in this business.
Was One of the things that you thought, if you
(08:02):
look back, that you think differentiated you from the other
people in that organization? You were there for what eighteen
years in Carolina? What truly brought that link and that
that bond between you and Sean Mcdermott during his time here? Yeah,
you know, it's funny. Um, I knew who sean was
growing up through Philly. You know, I would study people
(08:22):
and and study you. Always wanted to be thinking if
you ever were in that position, you know, what type
of people would you want to work with? And, uh,
we got sewn and Carolina in two thousand eleven and Um,
you know, we had some bumps in the road early
in him and Ron Rivera's tenure, but the thing I
always found about Sean was we could have honest conversation
(08:43):
and it was never about Sean when he talked to
me about the defense or the personnel. He was always
looking out for the club and he was a very
selfless guy. And and hopefully that's what he thought about me,
and we had a lot of candid conversations. It's here, though,
because I think people thought we had this pact of
(09:03):
if I'm a GM and, I'm gonna hire him, or
if he's a head coach, he's gonna, you know, talk
to ownership about me, and we never had that conversation.
I think it was just a mutual respect for one
another and we we both knew that we were all
about winning and and and it was leave your ego
at the door, and that's what we've tried to do
here in Buffalo. I love that. I mean to be
(09:24):
around something like that and we all know how important
that partnership is, and we'll get into that in a bit.
Are you involved in the construction of your coaching staff
along with Sean? Now, do you interact a lot? Ultimately,
I would assume that he has to say of what
how he wants to put his staff together or how
does that work in Buffalo? Yeah, I mean Sean and
(09:44):
I we do almost everything together. We we from how
we talk about players to how we talk about the coordinators,
the coaching staff Um to how where we're gonna DO
Training Camp I mean we just we believe we both
have different perspectives and and we really care about each
other's opinions on whatever the matter is. And with the
(10:05):
coaching staff, Sean has the ultimate say on his staff, but, um,
he does a great job of asking my input who
I've been around or call this person that that I
know that's worked with this with this coach, and so
we do a lot of of, you know, research and
discussion on our own and then, you know, we decide
who those candids are gonna be. He brings them in
(10:25):
and again we'll both talk to him, but ultimately Shawn's
gotta that's the guys that he's counting on to to
lead that side of the ball or, if it's a
position coach, lead that position group. He'll ultimately make the decision. So,
in a nutshell, I would ask you this, and and
fairly succinctly, you talk about your coaching staff and your
personnel department. Where are you guys, given the fact that
(10:46):
you're so close with your head coach, are the two
staffs really close working together? They are. That's probably one
of the things I'm most proud of of what we've
got here, is we have a great bond. And you
know what helps that? Our building is is an is
an older building, but we've done some renovations, but there's
only so much space and while some people may look
(11:07):
at it as a detriment, I think it's a positive.
We our scouts, you know from our pro personnel, are
right on the same hallway with our coaches. So they
don't they naturally work together and we actually have one room,
we call it the bullpen, that has some young coaches
and some young scouts in it together together and they're
in little cubicle areas and it allows them to collaborate
(11:29):
just naturally and talk about life, get the and there's
a there's a natural trust there and even when our
college scouts come in, we've built this bond and between
our uh, you know, we've had a lot of continuity.
You know, Leslie Frasier has been here the whole time.
Brian Dable has been here all but one year. He
farwell has been here, you know, all but all but
(11:50):
one year. So it's really allowed us to kind of
set our standard, what type of player we want and
the coaches and personnel and even though we don't always
see owt to eye, Um, we respect where each other's
coming from and I think that's a huge thing right,
that respect and that trust and that understanding and, you know,
the respect that everyone has their genius and their their
(12:11):
Craft Right and on the coaching side and the and
the personnel side, being able to understand that and respect
even the first and second and third year scout has
an opinion. They may not have the experience that you
have or I have, but they have an opinion and
I think being able to listen to them is important
for a coach to and not just to dismiss. You
know from afar, I will say I have always admired
(12:33):
the relationship that you have with Sean. I was very
blessed to have two really good relationships, one with Mike Smith,
who did a hell of a job for us in
Atlanta for those first seven years, and then Dan Quinn
and I took it, I think, to another level as
far as my relationship with a head coach. Um both
of those guys. I have a great deal of respect
for him. We worked really hard together to make things,
you know, just to Jive in a lot of different
(12:55):
really good ways. You guys have a special relationship. Alluded
to it earlier. If you were asked by a group
of owners who asked you to humbly advise them on
the best way to put together that top part of
the football operations organization, so the head coach and the GM?
(13:19):
How would that set up be in your mind if
you were giving that advice? Yeah, I mean I think
you start with with two people that that want to
be partners and want to respectfully. Not Always. You're not
looking for a group thing. You're you're looking for people
who will give you their honest opinion. They're gonna work hard. Again,
I talked about it. You know, we try and operate. Listen,
(13:40):
everyone has some type of ego, but and they're confident
their skill set. But we can agree to disagree and
we can talk through it and listen. Sean and I
we we've had many disagreements, but we do it in
a respectful manner and generally we do it in his
office or my office and when we walk out of
that office we have an agreement on what way we're
(14:01):
gonna go and that's the path. As long as we're
doing things in the best entrance of the buffalo bills,
and that's what I would tell an owner. As long
as you have two people who their number one goal
is it's not about their own stats or their own accolades,
it's about what's best for your organization. And if you
put that if you always think this decision is the
(14:24):
best thing for the buffalo bills or whatever team, you'll
usually come out on top. So you have a very
sort of outspoken and strong owner who who is not
afraid to to to voice his opinion, and you have
two gentlemen like yourself who are really dialed in in
your in your worlds. How does that all work together?
(14:44):
How do you how do you navigate, and what is
your advice to rising general managers as far as navigating
between that partnership between the two of you, as well
as a very important partnership with your owner? Yeah, I mean, uh,
you know Terry Pegoula and Kim that. You know they
they the thing I admire about them is they're very passionate,
they care, they want to win. Um. In my interview,
(15:07):
one of the things I asked about was was the resources,
you know, the resources to pay players and then the
resources to have, you know, great facilities and and they've
backed it up. We build a new eighteen million dollar
you know facility a couple of years ago that Um
really a state of the art and has helped us.
You know, it's helped our team and helped our program
but I really think the great thing about the Bagoula
(15:31):
is that they allow Sean and I to have honest dialogue.
We can hear them, that they give us. They're not
afraid to tell us how they see things, but they
also Um, they don't want us to just think like
them and they don't expect us to agree. And there's
been many times where we haven't been on the same
page out of the get go, but we talk it
(15:51):
through and they're open, they'll they're they're great listeners. To
be so uh, such successful people and to have the
have the well that to buy a football team, to
still be a humble to listen to Sean McDermott or
myself on tough decisions and Um, you know, again, Sean
and I, we don't sometimes we meet with him, we
(16:12):
will want to tell us one point of view, the
other one tell another one and we'll figure it out
between the three or four of us. What's the best decision,
you know, for our team? Well, I mean here you
talk about that and knowing how important it is on
that ownership side. And the PAGOULAS, of course, are very
well rounded and very intelligent and, uh, you know where
(16:32):
Kim is and how she how she works into your ownership, uh,
and your interaction on football. I think that's amazing. I
think it's great for the League, of course, to see
really strong, talented women excel and and that's been fun
to watch that over the years. Let's let's step back
for a minute here. If you were to classify your
(16:54):
style of leadership, what would it be? I would say, Um,
we have standards, okay, and we lay that out in
the building, whether it's scouting, whether it's our medical strength
and conditioning like. These are the standards that that every
day we expect you to meet. Um, but I try
(17:14):
and allow people to use their own creativity and you
can tell me how you want to. I'm not gonna
go tell our equipment guy how to run down into
the locker room. I'm not gonna tell our strength coach,
but I'm gonna expect him to use his own style,
his own methods. They don't all have to be like
me and I'm gonna Empower you to do your job. Now,
if you show me you can't be effective and I
(17:37):
need to if I need to micromanage you, my style
is you're not the right fit for me. I don't
believe in micromanaging and if I have to constantly put
my thumb on you, Um, after some time you're probably
gonna realize this probably isn't the right fit for for
you or for me. That's a great point, right the
last thing we need to be doing is spending all
of that energy on people to try to make sure
(17:59):
that they're going in the right direction. It is a
big thing for me over the years. Sometimes I felt
like we were right on on the dial and other
times you're thinking, wow, this person is really smart and
they are talented at what they do. But I continue
to readdress issues and it becomes complicated. But what was
your style in Atlanta? What would you say and did
it change? Did it evolve from when you got there
(18:21):
in Oh eight till uh, you know, through so I
started off being a big believer in positive passion and
persevering people, and not just to throw out lines, but
that's what I believe. I wanted to make sure that
I had people around me that were of that makeup.
You know, of course you can have wildly intelligent people
and talented people in other ways, but if they weren't
(18:42):
possessive of those three attributes, it never seemed like it
was really driving with me. Now I will say things.
You know, the first seven years were a certain way
and things have adjusted and changed over the years up until,
you know, my recent firing in October. I will share
with you, because I'm a big believer in sharing, where
where the mishaps have gone or the obstacles. Somewhere along
(19:05):
the way, probably about with two years left in my
tenure there, I decided I was going to be really
focused on Dan Quinn and I stopped communicating as much
as I used to communicate with the Middle Management Group,
the department heads, who I have a great deal of
respectful we had a lot of guys there, Brandon, that
were ten, twelve, twenty plus years. I figured you guys
(19:27):
are fine, you can do your own thing. It was
one of the bigger mistakes I made. It wasn't catastrophic,
but it really kicked me in the stomach when I
heard people saying like we don't know if we have
you anymore. Are you with us or and I started thinking. Well,
I've only been focusing my time mainly on my head
coach relationship because I thought that's where we needed to focus,
(19:47):
and I pulled away some of my regular communication from
the other, you know, the really important department heads, and
if I could do that again, I would have adjusted
that because I lost a little bit of my focus
on group, and that group, as you know, we have
been there a long time. You and I have been
in that role a long time. That's a very, very
important role for the organization. It keeps the rank order
(20:10):
in in checking a lot of really good ways, and
so in the end I am a very empathic person.
I believe. I say that, I guess humbly. I do
believe in that. I believe in people, I believe in communicating,
I believe in candor. At times in this league it's
not easy to be as candid as you want to be.
(20:31):
You know, sometimes you're thinking about the people you're dealing
with and sometimes you don't want to offend, and yet
it's so important to make sure that you're honest. So
I asked You about your style of leadership. What would
you how would you classify your style of deal making? Um, probably,
(20:51):
probably aggressive would probably be. Um, I try to I
try to not be over aggressive, but Um, you know,
when it comes to the draft T D I'm I'm
probably one of those guys if, if I see a
guy on the board that fits a need and I
think there's really good value, whatever round it is, if
I give up, you know, a pick or whatever. You know.
(21:12):
I know analytics always says go, trade back, trade back. Um,
I want to leave the draft with guys I'm excited about.
and Um, sometimes when you find yourself trading back, you
get on the clock and you're going, I'm good with
this guy, but I was much more excited about the
guy that I could have taken if I had traded
up for him. So that's kind of been my style.
(21:33):
Just be excited about the guys you're selecting and and again,
I've made a few trades here and there that some
people maybe have question at the time. Did you give
up too much? At the end of the day, if
you've got a really good player that's a really good
fit for your organization, I don't get too hung up
in what you gave up for him. I agree, I think.
I think in today's world, I think there is a
(21:54):
definite win win element and I'm a big believer in,
you know, relationships around the league. Of course you know that.
You and I, I've talked over years and that's really important. Again,
it comes back to respect right like it would within
your organization. It's from organization to organization, knowing that someone's
not going to try to hoodwink you on a deal. Again,
sometimes it's gonna go in your your way a little bit.
Sometimes mind in the end. Hopefully it's not too lopsided,
(22:18):
because then it becomes a little bit, uh, cumbersome, of course.
But Um, if I were to ask you on another level,
one salient piece of advice to a rising general manager
slash executive in our league, after your time eighteen years,
you know, with the panthers, and then as a GM
now for as long as you've been here, what would
(22:39):
that be? You know, to me it's it's be where
your feet are, and I know people say that, but
the thing that I run into a lot T D,
and I guarantee you did too, is people want to go.
I always say this, and this is a little bit
far fetched, but they want to go from intern to
president in five years. And it's your it's your strung
(23:00):
is along the way. I mean, listen, we all enjoyed
the winning years, but some of the things I learned
in Carolina, where that were most important to me, where
when it didn't go well and you look back and
you go, man, we had a lot of talented players. Well,
you know what, we had some some assholes in the
locker room and and it it just it created a
dynamic that wasn't a winning formula. And you go back
(23:21):
to culture and pieces like that. And so you while
you can study and learn all these things, it's your
experiences along the way that when you come across something
now I can go you know what, this reminds me
in of, you know, when Dave Gentleman got there, or
what what we had to what we had to deal with,
or two thousand and eight. Just I always am able
(23:44):
to reference those things. And if I think, if I didn't,
if I was one of these fast risers and you
know again, six seven years and I'm supposed to be
the GM I just think you're gonna there's gonna you're
gonna miss those opportunities to reflect on as you deal
with the challenges of this job. So in our league
right now we there's often discussion about who has final football.
(24:07):
Say my own personal experiences in Atlanta, the first seven
years with Mike Smith I had fifty three, is what
we call it, as you know, and then when Dan
Quinn came on board I turned that over to Dan
and and both regimes, myself and Mike Smith and myself
and Dan Quinn, we worked together very, very well. It
(24:27):
really didn't matter who had fifty three and final say.
Sometimes it can be an ego thing and there's discussions,
you know, within organizations, etcetera, etcetera. You and Sean worked
together so well. You have fifty three. How does that work?
And again, can you just share a little bit with
sort of the rising group how to navigate that, because
(24:49):
it could go either way when you're sitting in the
GM spot at the end of the day. Having fifty
three Um is more about ego probably than anything. If
you don't, if you're not partnering up with that head coach,
it's not gonna work. If I'm trying to choose players
that don't fit what our coaches think fit or just again,
(25:11):
my ego says this guy is gonna make it and
I'm ignoring what the coaches are saying. It generally doesn't work.
And and if a coach has fifty three and they're
ignoring what the GMC s because the coaches they have
to win every day. They have to win every practice.
It's gotta be a damn good practice on Wednesday, another
going on Thursday, on Friday and then obviously they gotta
go well on Sunday. They're not thinking about next January,
(25:34):
next February. They're not worried about the salary CAP, they're
not worried about an expiring contract. They're worried about the
now and that's what we want them focused on. But
a coach that doesn't pay attention to that, who has
the fifty three, that could be a blind spot for
them too. And and that's why I'm able to give
Sean this is the long term. You know now, today,
(25:55):
who you want maybe the better choice, but our long
term play and this guy is gonna be the better choice.
You know the ones that it's do you want this
linebacker or this linebacker? And there there's reasons for both.
It's it's almost a toss up, and that's where you
have to be willing to have those conversations of WHO's
the best player for us today and who's the best
player for us tomorrow? Very well said, you're a very smart,
(26:20):
insightful person. What are your concerns over the next five
to ten years in the National Football League? You know,
we got a great league and UH, they've done a
lot of great things and, you know, I think it's
what we're in the top sport, uh, you know, across
the country and probably the world. But you know, probably
the biggest thing that I worry about is, Um, you know,
(26:43):
we've seen it this offseason where there's push back for
less o t a s or less of an off
season program and, Um, you know, I think now is
the time. Yeah, you're working through fundamentals and all that,
but now is the time where we're building our team,
our culture. Every every we had a great year last year,
not the not the finish we wanted, but we've told
(27:04):
our team it's uh, we're zero and zero again. We've
lost players and we've added players. Just because we had
success last year and we have talented players, but doesn't
mean we're gonna have success this year. And so I
worry about how we we build this culture and build
the team and keep it sustainable. If the NFL moves
away from a model that that has players here in
(27:26):
the off season? I see not. That's a great it's
a great answer to night. You can you can flip
that and say what are you most encouraged about over
the next five to ten years? Where are you with that?
Is it? Is it we're gonna lead into diversity and inclusion.
Where do you think the league is with diversity and
inclusion and where, specifically, are the Buffalo Bills? Yeah, you know,
(27:46):
I think it's great. Um, you know, again, I talked
about group think earlier. People, you know, you know there's
been a push for for women and SAM RAPP report.
The League office has done a heck of a job
with the Women's symposium and, uh, we've been able to
add even more this year on either an intern level or, uh,
we actually just promoted a young lady who's been with
(28:06):
US two years, Andy Gosper, to a college scouting coordinator.
So I'm really excited about, you know, the movement to
to get more women involved and just they provide listen, uh,
they provide a different perspective than the male perspective. There's
there's no doubt. And and then the diversity of more minorities,
you know, and it's been a great push and I
(28:26):
think we saw it with some GM hires Um this
year and and I think those were all great candidates.
And you know, in our building, uh TV, we just
promoted Terence Gray, who was our college director. He's now
our assistant director of player personnel. And Uh Malik Boyd,
you know, both these guys came on when I got here,
just started. Malik was our pro director. We've promoted him
to a senior, uh senior VP level, and so those
(28:50):
are two guys that, Um, I think one day we're
gonna get their chance to to sit in the seat
you and I are, you know, have set in. I've
had the great opportunity to be around Sean McDermott During
the Bill Walsh Diversity Group, uh, in all of our
committee discussions over the years, and he's passionate about it
and I love listening to him. Your organization is passionate
about it. I mean it's it's it's a it's a
(29:12):
it's a major feather in your cap and I love
that you guys are approaching it that way. Do you
have any other areas of interest or you know, areas
of study that you're looking at right now, especially now
that we're going into sort of that off season time
for professional development reasons. Yeah, you know, Um, I haven't
always been a huge book reader, but at the Times
(29:32):
I do find myself picking up a book is is
during vacation, on planes or sitting on the beach and
I find myself, Um, I like a lot of documentaries
that I watched, but reading books about people that were successful,
biographies and you know, Bill Walsh is probably the Guy
I've read the most on. You know, obviously finding the
winning edge and and some of those and, Um, another
(29:54):
one that I read a few summers ago was was
Shoe Dog, the Phil Knights Story, and just, Um, learning
people's trials and tribulations. Um, that's probably what fascinates me
more than anything. Just it's not what they're doing now,
but it's really their journey of how they got into
their seat. Is What I've learned most from. Yeah, I
(30:16):
get you know, again, traveling this journey is a really
interesting journey. We we see the opposite, see the downs,
we see some of what we don't necessarily want to see.
We're thinking, wow, this, this doesn't really portray well that.
That's just all part of life, right. I love that.
And when I look back after thirteen years in this
this seat, almost thirteen years, and then, you know, almost
(30:36):
thirty in the league, this was the first draft that
I wasn't in a draft room in thirty years, Um,
and it was it was a long time coming, of course.
And sitting from sitting back and sitting uh, watching from afar, thinking, wow,
am I gonna my interested in getting back into this? where?
How is this all going to play out? I start
thinking a lot more about my life balance. And I'll
(30:59):
ask you about life balance and family, not only for you,
which is ultimately the most important of course, but also
for those in your in your organization. How do we
approach that? How do you how do you approach it
with with your employees as well? Yeah, it's it's important
because if you don't have that, you know, it's family first.
It always, it always has been and always should be
(31:21):
and always will be. And that's where Sean and iron
lockstep on that as well. And, Um, you know, one
of the things that I did in Carolina that always
whether it's Marty hearne or Dave get him, was I
was able to coach my kids and in certain sports
or be a part of it and go to games
and listen, we travel a lot and you miss. You
Miss Enough, but kind of my my theme to to
(31:43):
my staff is if I find out you're in town
and you miss one of your kids games or a
dance recital or whatever, I'm gonna be all over you
and it's it's not acceptable. And I've literally gone into
Joe Shane's office and told him to get his ass
out and get to a game. And he's great, he
does a great job, but he's such a hard worker
(32:03):
he doesn't want to leave any stone unturned and and
it's it's others as well, and so I think if
you ask people in this building, in our building, they
know that we expect you, especially during this downtime. Well,
you also are involved in making sure that people are
keeping their weight in check. Is that correct? I think
we talked about that recently. What was that whole thing
where you guys just kind of busting on each other
(32:24):
keeping everyone in check? Yeah, you know, Um, we did this.
This this dated back to my Carolina days. We did
this biggest loser when that show was on one year
and and I lost like twenty some pounds at the
time and and so I've been trying to do this
diet thing TV this year. I was not fitting into
my suits very well and and I tried like two
(32:46):
or three times to do my own diet and I go,
you know what, the one time I needed to lose
weight was when it was a competition, and so I
went to our head trainer, Nate Breski, and I told
him to call Ryan vermillion, who was a trainer in Carolina,
and asked him the details. So, uh, we put thirty
six of us and we everybody weighed and it was
a seven week competition and basically the heaviest got paired
(33:08):
with the lightest and we just paired it up and
it was a seven week Um percentage, uh, team, team,
percentage of what you lost and we all threw in
a certain amount of fee and there were some grand
prizes at the end. But uh, it worked. I can
fit in my suits again. You look good and you're
swinging well right here. You're getting out on the golf
course a little bit. I am uh, never enough, but
(33:32):
hopefully more to come. But yeah, it's it's great. Belong to,
you know, a couple of courses here locally and uh,
so when work's done. Even the great thing is right
now you can play till after nine o'clock at night,
so I'm gonna have dinner with the family. My youngest
son is a sophomore. He plays, so we'll go out
at during four nights a week and hit balls, chip
walk a few holes. Uh, so it's fun. Well, if
(33:54):
I may, a three index my God, like that's that's
Carolina all the way right. I did to ask you
that earlier on about coming all the way up to
the to the to the great north. Basketball and golf
is key in UH North Carolina, of course. So you're
just you're just adjusting a little bit different, different topography
and different weather, of course. Last question I usually ask you, guys,
(34:15):
what is the one question that you feared that I
was gonna ask you in Parens? By the way, you
don't have to answer the question. Um TV probably how scared.
You're gonna ask me. How did I fool Jerry Richardson
and Terry and Kim Pogoula to to get where I got?
But uh not, it's Uh you never dream. You know,
(34:37):
you dream of things, but uh, sometimes you don't know
how you got in the seats you got in sometimes
it's it's a great point. I mean we all think
sometimes like wow, this this has been a really interesting journey.
And you're forty four now, forty four years old. You know,
you have the world in front of and it's amazing
as I move around the country, you know, conversing with
all of you guys. Now I used to say us,
(34:58):
and it's still us. A man. That said, that's a
tough thing for me, but I love this. This interaction
has been so good. You know this. As a general manager,
we're so anchored into our worlds and we have so
much on our plate, mainly with, you know, of course,
the job and our families making sure. It's tough because
you don't necessarily always keep your bonds as strong with
(35:20):
your contemporaries around the league and your your friends in
this job, because there's so much that you could be sharing,
but you're either talking very quickly about a deal you're
gonna do or a player, whatever it may be. What
I've noticed traveling around, brother, is I've had an opportunity
to spend a few hours with people again that haven't
done in many, many years. And, without being sappy, I
mean it's it's heartwarming right, because we're all in it
(35:42):
for a reason. We're in a great business and you
know this. Yes, there's a lot of competition, but there
are some great dudes in this business, in this role and, uh,
you know life, life is great. Congratulations on your success
and I look forward to watching and appreciate your thanks. Thanks. Okay,
it was great being in Buffalo. Now we're gonna jump
(36:04):
out after our visit for Brandon being all the way
out to the west coast, once again across the country
to meet up with John Schneider, the very, very popular
GM of the seahawks. Hang with us. It's gonna be very,
very enlightening. You have been listening to the GM journey
with Thomas demittrof. Continue to follow Thomas as he interviews
(36:26):
GMS from your favorite NFL teams. The GM journey has
been produced by Alan Castenbaum, Thomas demittrof and Octagon Entertainment.
Don't forget to download and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, spotify
or wherever you get your podcast from. The GM journey
(36:48):
is distributed by the eight side network.
My name is Arial Custom Baum and I am the
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for families of all walks of life. On our website,
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(00:21):
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Forward slash donate. Okay, I hope you guys like that
(00:44):
trip through Kansas City and spend at some time with
Bret PGA again. Really impressive what he's done and how
he's adapted to the situation there, and he's built some
great teams. Watch him in the future. He's got a very,
very bright future. Welcome to the GM journey. With Thomas Tomtrof,
we will travel all the way up, and I say
(01:05):
all the way up, to buffalo to meet with Brandon,
being very impressive general manager. I know I continue to
say that, but these guys are all all beyond they
offer so much to this league. I'm so glad that
we're able to spotlight them all. Brandon bean is one
of those guys, very similar to Howie Roseman and Mickey loomis.
He's a business guy by trade. More learned the ropes
(01:27):
very quickly. A very bright guy, of course, m very communicative,
a very good modern day leader, very empathic as far
as the way that he leads his group. He gets
along with his head coach very, very well. They're able
to know the lines, they're able to share very well
and you'll realize in the conversations with Brandon being you
know how intelligent he is, how much insight he has,
(01:49):
and he's able to pull it all together and put
together some great teams. I mean right now, the buffalo
bills are one of the teams in the NFL to
beat and Brandon bean is a very, very important part
of that bill living process. All Right, here we are,
east Aurora, Slash Buffalo, in front of Bar Bill Tavern
with my good friend and stellar GM Brandon Bean. Thanks
(02:12):
for joining me. I really appreciate it. It It now, this
is cool. This say is I'm glad you you made
the trek man. It's UH. I would have loved to
been in the car where you just see all your
sites and we've you know, I've been traveling like a
madman and I started, I started all the way in Atlanta,
around Tampa, through the southern coast, so to speak, all
the way up to the West Coast and here we are,
all the way out in Buffalo. This is kind of
(02:33):
my old neck of the woods. Wasn't from Buffalo, of course,
but having lived in Canada, up in Hamilton's and Toronto,
I spent a lot of time in and out of here.
We would always come into town searching for wings, searching
for you know, you know all the Canadians. I'm not Canadian,
I lived there for a long time, but all the
Canadians would come in and shop. Right did go to
the outlet malls? Yeah, that was a big deal for them. Right. Well, you,
(02:55):
you've probably shoveled your way out of a few snowstorms
here too. I have. I have. Well, look, let's jump
into this. How does a boy from Norwood, North Carolina,
feel thriving in a very football town up here? I
mean it's it's been really, really Um admirable how you've
(03:16):
approached everything here and you're doing so well. You have
three out of four winning seasons right, you were executive
the year this year, horrigan award winner this year. I know,
I know, it's amazing, like things are just really going
well and falling into place. But how does that feel? Yeah,
if it feels great, it's I can't say when I
was growing up in Norwood that I had it myself
(03:37):
mapped out to end up in Buffalo New York, but, uh,
it's been a great fit for me and Um, I
had the good fortune to, you know, to learn the
business in Carolina, you know, near my home area, and
then to get a chance to come up here and
this these people, as you know, you've played up here
and obviously from Canada as well, you know, from wealth
(04:00):
and I guess Um where I grew up is a
very blue collar area, and so this feels even Tho
this is a bigger area than where I grew up,
this feels like the community that I grew up in.
Just people, uh, good nature people and very blue collar
and and just uh, home fashion, country folks. Is really
(04:20):
even though we're in the north, it really feels like Um,
where I was from, or maybe like a midwestern type
of town. I think many people that are coming up
from the South never knew that we call it the
North Coast right. This is part of the North Coast
up here. It's kind of interesting. So, Brandon, tell me
about this. You came to the GM job in a
rather circuitous way. Explain that and then tell me about
(04:42):
any of the obstacles that you faced along the way.
Or maybe you didn't to get to that spot. This
is a particular league. People look at how people get
to a place and sometimes they're accepting and other times
they're they're a little cautious. Please talk about that. Yeah,
I definitely didn't do it the traditional route. You know,
I started as a PR intern for a month of
(05:04):
training camp and then I became a football ops intern
and slowly but surely Marty Hernie hired me as a
football ops manager and later promoted me to director. But, Um,
we all know the important part of scouting and that
role in most people like yourself, that's that's the path
they go. And the one thing about Marty was Marty
(05:25):
let me do things along the way to help help
get myself ready. While I was handling football ops, he
gave me the opportunity to have scouting assignments, whether it
was cutting up film for the Pro Scouts, assisting with
the college draft and whatever role it was, just to
be around it and work on that part of it
while still handling my job, which, without Marty, I wouldn't
(05:48):
be sitting here talking to you in this role. And
the crazy thing, Thomas, is Um probably one of the
biggest breaks I got was when Marty got fired, and
I hated, hated that it was. It was a sickening
moment for me the guy that gave me every chance
that I had in this league for so long. Um,
we started one in five, in two thousand twelve and
(06:10):
Jerry Richarson called me into his office that morning and
told me he had just fired Marty and I thought
he was about to tell me your next and uh,
instead he said, Um, I want you for the rest
of the season to work with Ron Rivera and get
let's get this thing turned around and and we'll figure
things out after the season. So the first guy called
was Marty Hernie. UH, closed my door and Um, he
(06:33):
typical Marty fashion, as you know him. UMS, don't worry
about me, Brandon, I'm good. I'm here to support you.
You call me any day, anytime. I'm gonna help you
through this and and that's why I'm here today. That's amazing.
I mean you think about Marty and Marty's got such
a reputation over the years. Again, streamline, you know, not
not the up and down guy, just a lot of
(06:55):
respect for him as well, of course, and the fact
that he got to his in a in a in
a maybe a different one, different way. Probably he had
a soft spot for you right, working with you on that,
I'm sure right. Yeah, I think Marty was one of
those guys he gave you assignments and he just let
you do him. He trusted you and I learned a
lot from that. And, Um, when Marty knew you had it,
(07:19):
he was always willing to give you more and I
would tell him, Marty, if you need help with this,
I'll do it. And one year he gave me two
departments budgets to handle. I knocked it out of the
park and he said, brand I'm gonna give you the
whole football ops budgets to handle and see how you do.
And he just again every every step of the way,
he continued to let me grow myself while also making
(07:41):
sure I'm taking care of my number one responsibilities. So
this is interesting because I'm a big believer in while
we're moving through our career, we have to differentiate ourselves right.
That's what's gonna make us, you know, of course, continue
to grow and learn and and and ascend in this business.
Was One of the things that you thought, if you
(08:02):
look back, that you think differentiated you from the other
people in that organization? You were there for what eighteen
years in Carolina? What truly brought that link and that
that bond between you and Sean Mcdermott during his time here? Yeah,
you know, it's funny. Um, I knew who sean was
growing up through Philly. You know, I would study people
(08:22):
and and study you. Always wanted to be thinking if
you ever were in that position, you know, what type
of people would you want to work with? And, uh,
we got sewn and Carolina in two thousand eleven and Um,
you know, we had some bumps in the road early
in him and Ron Rivera's tenure, but the thing I
always found about Sean was we could have honest conversation
(08:43):
and it was never about Sean when he talked to
me about the defense or the personnel. He was always
looking out for the club and he was a very
selfless guy. And and hopefully that's what he thought about me,
and we had a lot of candid conversations. It's here, though,
because I think people thought we had this pact of
(09:03):
if I'm a GM and, I'm gonna hire him, or
if he's a head coach, he's gonna, you know, talk
to ownership about me, and we never had that conversation.
I think it was just a mutual respect for one
another and we we both knew that we were all
about winning and and and it was leave your ego
at the door, and that's what we've tried to do
here in Buffalo. I love that. I mean to be
(09:24):
around something like that and we all know how important
that partnership is, and we'll get into that in a bit.
Are you involved in the construction of your coaching staff
along with Sean? Now, do you interact a lot? Ultimately,
I would assume that he has to say of what
how he wants to put his staff together or how
does that work in Buffalo? Yeah, I mean Sean and
(09:44):
I we do almost everything together. We we from how
we talk about players to how we talk about the coordinators,
the coaching staff Um to how where we're gonna DO
Training Camp I mean we just we believe we both
have different perspectives and and we really care about each
other's opinions on whatever the matter is. And with the
(10:05):
coaching staff, Sean has the ultimate say on his staff, but, um,
he does a great job of asking my input who
I've been around or call this person that that I
know that's worked with this with this coach, and so
we do a lot of of, you know, research and
discussion on our own and then, you know, we decide
who those candids are gonna be. He brings them in
(10:25):
and again we'll both talk to him, but ultimately Shawn's
gotta that's the guys that he's counting on to to
lead that side of the ball or, if it's a
position coach, lead that position group. He'll ultimately make the decision. So,
in a nutshell, I would ask you this, and and
fairly succinctly, you talk about your coaching staff and your
personnel department. Where are you guys, given the fact that
(10:46):
you're so close with your head coach, are the two
staffs really close working together? They are. That's probably one
of the things I'm most proud of of what we've
got here, is we have a great bond. And you
know what helps that? Our building is is an is
an older building, but we've done some renovations, but there's
only so much space and while some people may look
(11:07):
at it as a detriment, I think it's a positive.
We our scouts, you know from our pro personnel, are
right on the same hallway with our coaches. So they
don't they naturally work together and we actually have one room,
we call it the bullpen, that has some young coaches
and some young scouts in it together together and they're
in little cubicle areas and it allows them to collaborate
(11:29):
just naturally and talk about life, get the and there's
a there's a natural trust there and even when our
college scouts come in, we've built this bond and between
our uh, you know, we've had a lot of continuity.
You know, Leslie Frasier has been here the whole time.
Brian Dable has been here all but one year. He
farwell has been here, you know, all but all but
(11:50):
one year. So it's really allowed us to kind of
set our standard, what type of player we want and
the coaches and personnel and even though we don't always
see owt to eye, Um, we respect where each other's
coming from and I think that's a huge thing right,
that respect and that trust and that understanding and, you know,
the respect that everyone has their genius and their their
(12:11):
Craft Right and on the coaching side and the and
the personnel side, being able to understand that and respect
even the first and second and third year scout has
an opinion. They may not have the experience that you
have or I have, but they have an opinion and
I think being able to listen to them is important
for a coach to and not just to dismiss. You
know from afar, I will say I have always admired
(12:33):
the relationship that you have with Sean. I was very
blessed to have two really good relationships, one with Mike Smith,
who did a hell of a job for us in
Atlanta for those first seven years, and then Dan Quinn
and I took it, I think, to another level as
far as my relationship with a head coach. Um both
of those guys. I have a great deal of respect
for him. We worked really hard together to make things,
you know, just to Jive in a lot of different
(12:55):
really good ways. You guys have a special relationship. Alluded
to it earlier. If you were asked by a group
of owners who asked you to humbly advise them on
the best way to put together that top part of
the football operations organization, so the head coach and the GM?
(13:19):
How would that set up be in your mind if
you were giving that advice? Yeah, I mean I think
you start with with two people that that want to
be partners and want to respectfully. Not Always. You're not
looking for a group thing. You're you're looking for people
who will give you their honest opinion. They're gonna work hard. Again,
I talked about it. You know, we try and operate. Listen,
(13:40):
everyone has some type of ego, but and they're confident
their skill set. But we can agree to disagree and
we can talk through it and listen. Sean and I
we we've had many disagreements, but we do it in
a respectful manner and generally we do it in his
office or my office and when we walk out of
that office we have an agreement on what way we're
(14:01):
gonna go and that's the path. As long as we're
doing things in the best entrance of the buffalo bills,
and that's what I would tell an owner. As long
as you have two people who their number one goal
is it's not about their own stats or their own accolades,
it's about what's best for your organization. And if you
put that if you always think this decision is the
(14:24):
best thing for the buffalo bills or whatever team, you'll
usually come out on top. So you have a very
sort of outspoken and strong owner who who is not
afraid to to to voice his opinion, and you have
two gentlemen like yourself who are really dialed in in
your in your worlds. How does that all work together?
(14:44):
How do you how do you navigate, and what is
your advice to rising general managers as far as navigating
between that partnership between the two of you, as well
as a very important partnership with your owner? Yeah, I mean, uh,
you know Terry Pegoula and Kim that. You know they
they the thing I admire about them is they're very passionate,
they care, they want to win. Um. In my interview,
(15:07):
one of the things I asked about was was the resources,
you know, the resources to pay players and then the
resources to have, you know, great facilities and and they've
backed it up. We build a new eighteen million dollar
you know facility a couple of years ago that Um
really a state of the art and has helped us.
You know, it's helped our team and helped our program
but I really think the great thing about the Bagoula
(15:31):
is that they allow Sean and I to have honest dialogue.
We can hear them, that they give us. They're not
afraid to tell us how they see things, but they
also Um, they don't want us to just think like
them and they don't expect us to agree. And there's
been many times where we haven't been on the same
page out of the get go, but we talk it
(15:51):
through and they're open, they'll they're they're great listeners. To
be so uh, such successful people and to have the
have the well that to buy a football team, to
still be a humble to listen to Sean McDermott or
myself on tough decisions and Um, you know, again, Sean
and I, we don't sometimes we meet with him, we
(16:12):
will want to tell us one point of view, the
other one tell another one and we'll figure it out
between the three or four of us. What's the best decision,
you know, for our team? Well, I mean here you
talk about that and knowing how important it is on
that ownership side. And the PAGOULAS, of course, are very
well rounded and very intelligent and, uh, you know where
(16:32):
Kim is and how she how she works into your ownership, uh,
and your interaction on football. I think that's amazing. I
think it's great for the League, of course, to see
really strong, talented women excel and and that's been fun
to watch that over the years. Let's let's step back
for a minute here. If you were to classify your
(16:54):
style of leadership, what would it be? I would say, Um,
we have standards, okay, and we lay that out in
the building, whether it's scouting, whether it's our medical strength
and conditioning like. These are the standards that that every
day we expect you to meet. Um, but I try
(17:14):
and allow people to use their own creativity and you
can tell me how you want to. I'm not gonna
go tell our equipment guy how to run down into
the locker room. I'm not gonna tell our strength coach,
but I'm gonna expect him to use his own style,
his own methods. They don't all have to be like
me and I'm gonna Empower you to do your job. Now,
if you show me you can't be effective and I
(17:37):
need to if I need to micromanage you, my style
is you're not the right fit for me. I don't
believe in micromanaging and if I have to constantly put
my thumb on you, Um, after some time you're probably
gonna realize this probably isn't the right fit for for
you or for me. That's a great point, right the
last thing we need to be doing is spending all
of that energy on people to try to make sure
(17:59):
that they're going in the right direction. It is a
big thing for me over the years. Sometimes I felt
like we were right on on the dial and other
times you're thinking, wow, this person is really smart and
they are talented at what they do. But I continue
to readdress issues and it becomes complicated. But what was
your style in Atlanta? What would you say and did
it change? Did it evolve from when you got there
(18:21):
in Oh eight till uh, you know, through so I
started off being a big believer in positive passion and
persevering people, and not just to throw out lines, but
that's what I believe. I wanted to make sure that
I had people around me that were of that makeup.
You know, of course you can have wildly intelligent people
and talented people in other ways, but if they weren't
(18:42):
possessive of those three attributes, it never seemed like it
was really driving with me. Now I will say things.
You know, the first seven years were a certain way
and things have adjusted and changed over the years up until,
you know, my recent firing in October. I will share
with you, because I'm a big believer in sharing, where
where the mishaps have gone or the obstacles. Somewhere along
(19:05):
the way, probably about with two years left in my
tenure there, I decided I was going to be really
focused on Dan Quinn and I stopped communicating as much
as I used to communicate with the Middle Management Group,
the department heads, who I have a great deal of
respectful we had a lot of guys there, Brandon, that
were ten, twelve, twenty plus years. I figured you guys
(19:27):
are fine, you can do your own thing. It was
one of the bigger mistakes I made. It wasn't catastrophic,
but it really kicked me in the stomach when I
heard people saying like we don't know if we have
you anymore. Are you with us or and I started thinking. Well,
I've only been focusing my time mainly on my head
coach relationship because I thought that's where we needed to focus,
(19:47):
and I pulled away some of my regular communication from
the other, you know, the really important department heads, and
if I could do that again, I would have adjusted
that because I lost a little bit of my focus
on group, and that group, as you know, we have
been there a long time. You and I have been
in that role a long time. That's a very, very
important role for the organization. It keeps the rank order
(20:10):
in in checking a lot of really good ways, and
so in the end I am a very empathic person.
I believe. I say that, I guess humbly. I do
believe in that. I believe in people, I believe in communicating,
I believe in candor. At times in this league it's
not easy to be as candid as you want to be.
(20:31):
You know, sometimes you're thinking about the people you're dealing
with and sometimes you don't want to offend, and yet
it's so important to make sure that you're honest. So
I asked You about your style of leadership. What would
you how would you classify your style of deal making? Um, probably,
(20:51):
probably aggressive would probably be. Um, I try to I
try to not be over aggressive, but Um, you know,
when it comes to the draft T D I'm I'm
probably one of those guys if, if I see a
guy on the board that fits a need and I
think there's really good value, whatever round it is, if
I give up, you know, a pick or whatever. You know.
(21:12):
I know analytics always says go, trade back, trade back. Um,
I want to leave the draft with guys I'm excited about.
and Um, sometimes when you find yourself trading back, you
get on the clock and you're going, I'm good with
this guy, but I was much more excited about the
guy that I could have taken if I had traded
up for him. So that's kind of been my style.
(21:33):
Just be excited about the guys you're selecting and and again,
I've made a few trades here and there that some
people maybe have question at the time. Did you give
up too much? At the end of the day, if
you've got a really good player that's a really good
fit for your organization, I don't get too hung up
in what you gave up for him. I agree, I think.
I think in today's world, I think there is a
(21:54):
definite win win element and I'm a big believer in,
you know, relationships around the league. Of course you know that.
You and I, I've talked over years and that's really important. Again,
it comes back to respect right like it would within
your organization. It's from organization to organization, knowing that someone's
not going to try to hoodwink you on a deal. Again,
sometimes it's gonna go in your your way a little bit.
Sometimes mind in the end. Hopefully it's not too lopsided,
(22:18):
because then it becomes a little bit, uh, cumbersome, of course.
But Um, if I were to ask you on another level,
one salient piece of advice to a rising general manager
slash executive in our league, after your time eighteen years,
you know, with the panthers, and then as a GM
now for as long as you've been here, what would
(22:39):
that be? You know, to me it's it's be where
your feet are, and I know people say that, but
the thing that I run into a lot T D,
and I guarantee you did too, is people want to go.
I always say this, and this is a little bit
far fetched, but they want to go from intern to
president in five years. And it's your it's your strung
(23:00):
is along the way. I mean, listen, we all enjoyed
the winning years, but some of the things I learned
in Carolina, where that were most important to me, where
when it didn't go well and you look back and
you go, man, we had a lot of talented players. Well,
you know what, we had some some assholes in the
locker room and and it it just it created a
dynamic that wasn't a winning formula. And you go back
(23:21):
to culture and pieces like that. And so you while
you can study and learn all these things, it's your
experiences along the way that when you come across something
now I can go you know what, this reminds me
in of, you know, when Dave Gentleman got there, or
what what we had to what we had to deal with,
or two thousand and eight. Just I always am able
(23:44):
to reference those things. And if I think, if I didn't,
if I was one of these fast risers and you
know again, six seven years and I'm supposed to be
the GM I just think you're gonna there's gonna you're
gonna miss those opportunities to reflect on as you deal
with the challenges of this job. So in our league
right now we there's often discussion about who has final football.
(24:07):
Say my own personal experiences in Atlanta, the first seven
years with Mike Smith I had fifty three, is what
we call it, as you know, and then when Dan
Quinn came on board I turned that over to Dan
and and both regimes, myself and Mike Smith and myself
and Dan Quinn, we worked together very, very well. It
(24:27):
really didn't matter who had fifty three and final say.
Sometimes it can be an ego thing and there's discussions,
you know, within organizations, etcetera, etcetera. You and Sean worked
together so well. You have fifty three. How does that work?
And again, can you just share a little bit with
sort of the rising group how to navigate that, because
(24:49):
it could go either way when you're sitting in the
GM spot at the end of the day. Having fifty
three Um is more about ego probably than anything. If
you don't, if you're not partnering up with that head coach,
it's not gonna work. If I'm trying to choose players
that don't fit what our coaches think fit or just again,
(25:11):
my ego says this guy is gonna make it and
I'm ignoring what the coaches are saying. It generally doesn't work.
And and if a coach has fifty three and they're
ignoring what the GMC s because the coaches they have
to win every day. They have to win every practice.
It's gotta be a damn good practice on Wednesday, another
going on Thursday, on Friday and then obviously they gotta
go well on Sunday. They're not thinking about next January,
(25:34):
next February. They're not worried about the salary CAP, they're
not worried about an expiring contract. They're worried about the
now and that's what we want them focused on. But
a coach that doesn't pay attention to that, who has
the fifty three, that could be a blind spot for
them too. And and that's why I'm able to give
Sean this is the long term. You know now, today,
(25:55):
who you want maybe the better choice, but our long
term play and this guy is gonna be the better choice.
You know the ones that it's do you want this
linebacker or this linebacker? And there there's reasons for both.
It's it's almost a toss up, and that's where you
have to be willing to have those conversations of WHO's
the best player for us today and who's the best
player for us tomorrow? Very well said, you're a very smart,
(26:20):
insightful person. What are your concerns over the next five
to ten years in the National Football League? You know,
we got a great league and UH, they've done a
lot of great things and, you know, I think it's
what we're in the top sport, uh, you know, across
the country and probably the world. But you know, probably
the biggest thing that I worry about is, Um, you know,
(26:43):
we've seen it this offseason where there's push back for
less o t a s or less of an off
season program and, Um, you know, I think now is
the time. Yeah, you're working through fundamentals and all that,
but now is the time where we're building our team,
our culture. Every every we had a great year last year,
not the not the finish we wanted, but we've told
(27:04):
our team it's uh, we're zero and zero again. We've
lost players and we've added players. Just because we had
success last year and we have talented players, but doesn't
mean we're gonna have success this year. And so I
worry about how we we build this culture and build
the team and keep it sustainable. If the NFL moves
away from a model that that has players here in
(27:26):
the off season? I see not. That's a great it's
a great answer to night. You can you can flip
that and say what are you most encouraged about over
the next five to ten years? Where are you with that?
Is it? Is it we're gonna lead into diversity and inclusion.
Where do you think the league is with diversity and
inclusion and where, specifically, are the Buffalo Bills? Yeah, you know,
(27:46):
I think it's great. Um, you know, again, I talked
about group think earlier. People, you know, you know there's
been a push for for women and SAM RAPP report.
The League office has done a heck of a job
with the Women's symposium and, uh, we've been able to
add even more this year on either an intern level or, uh,
we actually just promoted a young lady who's been with
(28:06):
US two years, Andy Gosper, to a college scouting coordinator.
So I'm really excited about, you know, the movement to
to get more women involved and just they provide listen, uh,
they provide a different perspective than the male perspective. There's
there's no doubt. And and then the diversity of more minorities,
you know, and it's been a great push and I
(28:26):
think we saw it with some GM hires Um this
year and and I think those were all great candidates.
And you know, in our building, uh TV, we just
promoted Terence Gray, who was our college director. He's now
our assistant director of player personnel. And Uh Malik Boyd,
you know, both these guys came on when I got here,
just started. Malik was our pro director. We've promoted him
to a senior, uh senior VP level, and so those
(28:50):
are two guys that, Um, I think one day we're
gonna get their chance to to sit in the seat
you and I are, you know, have set in. I've
had the great opportunity to be around Sean McDermott During
the Bill Walsh Diversity Group, uh, in all of our
committee discussions over the years, and he's passionate about it
and I love listening to him. Your organization is passionate
about it. I mean it's it's it's a it's a
(29:12):
it's a major feather in your cap and I love
that you guys are approaching it that way. Do you
have any other areas of interest or you know, areas
of study that you're looking at right now, especially now
that we're going into sort of that off season time
for professional development reasons. Yeah, you know, Um, I haven't
always been a huge book reader, but at the Times
(29:32):
I do find myself picking up a book is is
during vacation, on planes or sitting on the beach and
I find myself, Um, I like a lot of documentaries
that I watched, but reading books about people that were successful,
biographies and you know, Bill Walsh is probably the Guy
I've read the most on. You know, obviously finding the
winning edge and and some of those and, Um, another
(29:54):
one that I read a few summers ago was was
Shoe Dog, the Phil Knights Story, and just, Um, learning
people's trials and tribulations. Um, that's probably what fascinates me
more than anything. Just it's not what they're doing now,
but it's really their journey of how they got into
their seat. Is What I've learned most from. Yeah, I
(30:16):
get you know, again, traveling this journey is a really
interesting journey. We we see the opposite, see the downs,
we see some of what we don't necessarily want to see.
We're thinking, wow, this, this doesn't really portray well that.
That's just all part of life, right. I love that.
And when I look back after thirteen years in this
this seat, almost thirteen years, and then, you know, almost
(30:36):
thirty in the league, this was the first draft that
I wasn't in a draft room in thirty years, Um,
and it was it was a long time coming, of course.
And sitting from sitting back and sitting uh, watching from afar, thinking, wow,
am I gonna my interested in getting back into this? where?
How is this all going to play out? I start
thinking a lot more about my life balance. And I'll
(30:59):
ask you about life balance and family, not only for you,
which is ultimately the most important of course, but also
for those in your in your organization. How do we
approach that? How do you how do you approach it
with with your employees as well? Yeah, it's it's important
because if you don't have that, you know, it's family first.
It always, it always has been and always should be
(31:21):
and always will be. And that's where Sean and iron
lockstep on that as well. And, Um, you know, one
of the things that I did in Carolina that always
whether it's Marty hearne or Dave get him, was I
was able to coach my kids and in certain sports
or be a part of it and go to games
and listen, we travel a lot and you miss. You
Miss Enough, but kind of my my theme to to
(31:43):
my staff is if I find out you're in town
and you miss one of your kids games or a
dance recital or whatever, I'm gonna be all over you
and it's it's not acceptable. And I've literally gone into
Joe Shane's office and told him to get his ass
out and get to a game. And he's great, he
does a great job, but he's such a hard worker
(32:03):
he doesn't want to leave any stone unturned and and
it's it's others as well, and so I think if
you ask people in this building, in our building, they
know that we expect you, especially during this downtime. Well,
you also are involved in making sure that people are
keeping their weight in check. Is that correct? I think
we talked about that recently. What was that whole thing
where you guys just kind of busting on each other
(32:24):
keeping everyone in check? Yeah, you know, Um, we did this.
This this dated back to my Carolina days. We did
this biggest loser when that show was on one year
and and I lost like twenty some pounds at the
time and and so I've been trying to do this
diet thing TV this year. I was not fitting into
my suits very well and and I tried like two
(32:46):
or three times to do my own diet and I go,
you know what, the one time I needed to lose
weight was when it was a competition, and so I
went to our head trainer, Nate Breski, and I told
him to call Ryan vermillion, who was a trainer in Carolina,
and asked him the details. So, uh, we put thirty
six of us and we everybody weighed and it was
a seven week competition and basically the heaviest got paired
(33:08):
with the lightest and we just paired it up and
it was a seven week Um percentage, uh, team, team,
percentage of what you lost and we all threw in
a certain amount of fee and there were some grand
prizes at the end. But uh, it worked. I can
fit in my suits again. You look good and you're
swinging well right here. You're getting out on the golf
course a little bit. I am uh, never enough, but
(33:32):
hopefully more to come. But yeah, it's it's great. Belong to,
you know, a couple of courses here locally and uh,
so when work's done. Even the great thing is right
now you can play till after nine o'clock at night,
so I'm gonna have dinner with the family. My youngest
son is a sophomore. He plays, so we'll go out
at during four nights a week and hit balls, chip
walk a few holes. Uh, so it's fun. Well, if
(33:54):
I may, a three index my God, like that's that's
Carolina all the way right. I did to ask you
that earlier on about coming all the way up to
the to the to the great north. Basketball and golf
is key in UH North Carolina, of course. So you're
just you're just adjusting a little bit different, different topography
and different weather, of course. Last question I usually ask you, guys,
(34:15):
what is the one question that you feared that I
was gonna ask you in Parens? By the way, you
don't have to answer the question. Um TV probably how scared.
You're gonna ask me. How did I fool Jerry Richardson
and Terry and Kim Pogoula to to get where I got?
But uh not, it's Uh you never dream. You know,
(34:37):
you dream of things, but uh, sometimes you don't know
how you got in the seats you got in sometimes
it's it's a great point. I mean we all think
sometimes like wow, this this has been a really interesting journey.
And you're forty four now, forty four years old. You know,
you have the world in front of and it's amazing
as I move around the country, you know, conversing with
all of you guys. Now I used to say us,
(34:58):
and it's still us. A man. That said, that's a
tough thing for me, but I love this. This interaction
has been so good. You know this. As a general manager,
we're so anchored into our worlds and we have so
much on our plate, mainly with, you know, of course,
the job and our families making sure. It's tough because
you don't necessarily always keep your bonds as strong with
(35:20):
your contemporaries around the league and your your friends in
this job, because there's so much that you could be sharing,
but you're either talking very quickly about a deal you're
gonna do or a player, whatever it may be. What
I've noticed traveling around, brother, is I've had an opportunity
to spend a few hours with people again that haven't
done in many, many years. And, without being sappy, I
mean it's it's heartwarming right, because we're all in it
(35:42):
for a reason. We're in a great business and you
know this. Yes, there's a lot of competition, but there
are some great dudes in this business, in this role and, uh,
you know life, life is great. Congratulations on your success
and I look forward to watching and appreciate your thanks. Thanks. Okay,
it was great being in Buffalo. Now we're gonna jump
(36:04):
out after our visit for Brandon being all the way
out to the west coast, once again across the country
to meet up with John Schneider, the very, very popular
GM of the seahawks. Hang with us. It's gonna be very,
very enlightening. You have been listening to the GM journey
with Thomas demittrof. Continue to follow Thomas as he interviews
(36:26):
GMS from your favorite NFL teams. The GM journey has
been produced by Alan Castenbaum, Thomas demittrof and Octagon Entertainment.
Don't forget to download and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, spotify
or wherever you get your podcast from. The GM journey
(36:48):
is distributed by the eight side network.
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