Woman, Life, Freedom with Artemis Pebdani & Nazanin Nour

Artemis Pebdani and Nazanin Nour tell their stories of growing up in America as children of Iranian immigrants, discovering their love of acting, and the theater experience that brought them together just months before the death of Jina Mahsa Amini by the hands of the Islamic Republic's regime one year ago. Together, they shine a light on Jina Mahsa Amini, her story, and its importance in regards to the struggles of the Iranian people. They use their voices to amplify those risking their lives to fight a muderous regime trying its hardest to silence its people.

 

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Twitter: @nazaninnour

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to the Good Stuff.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Jacob Schick and I'm joined by my co host
and wife, Ashley Shick.

Speaker 3 (00:14):
Jake is a third generation combat Marine and I'm a
gold Star granddaughter. We work together to serve military veterans,
first responders, frontline healthcare workers, and their families with mental
and emotional wellness through traditional and non traditional therapy.

Speaker 4 (00:28):
At One Tribe Foundation.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
We believe everyone has a story to tell, not only
about the peaks, but also the valleys they've been through
to get them to where they are today.

Speaker 3 (00:37):
Each week, we invite a guest to tell us their story,
to share with us the lessons they've learned that shape
who they are and what they're doing to pay it
forward and give back.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Our mission with this show is to dig deep into
our guest journey so that we can celebrate the hope
and inspiration that their story has to offer.

Speaker 4 (00:52):
We're thrilled you're joining us again.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
Welcome to the Good Stuff.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
Today's episode is a big one. Only right that we
bring you not one, but two guests, Artemis peb Danny
and Nazanie Nor. Both women are actresses based in Los Angeles, California,
with impressive resumes. Both on screen and on the stage.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
Nazani Noor has appeared in television shows such as Madam's
Secretary and Criminal Minds, not to mention as a judge
on Persia's Got Talent. There's also a good chance you
have seen her on social media. Her accounts on YouTube,
Twitter and Instagram have a big impact.

Speaker 3 (01:29):
Artemis pep Danny has been in countless films and many
of your favorite TV shows, including, but not limited to,
It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, Scandal, Big City, Greens, The Goldbergs,
and my personal favorite of all time, How I Met
Your Mother.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
It's a legend and wait for it if the next
word affects you because you're lactose, intolerant and dairy. Both
Artemis and Nazanine are Iranian Americans. Today they join us
for a conversation about growing up in America as children
of Iranian immigrants, the theater experience that brought them together
in the political upheaval in Iran that has forever changed

(02:04):
their lives.

Speaker 3 (02:05):
We're airing this episode in September twenty twenty three, just
one year after the death twenty two year old Masa Amini.
Masa's death at the hands of the Islamic Republic regimes
so called morality police, sparked off protests across Iran and
the globe. The girls and women of Iran have been
at the forefront of this freedom fight, putting their lives

(02:25):
on the line, and they have inspired countless others to
join the peaceful protest, demanding an end to the dictatorship
that has oppressed their people for the last forty four years.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
We recorded this episode back in June, so while much
has happened since, please know that the Iranian people's fight
for freedom and self determination remained steadfast and strong.

Speaker 3 (02:47):
This conversation is full of passion, anger, laughter and tears.
As you'll come to learn, Artemis and Nazanine are risking
a lot when they speak out publicly against the regime
on a podcast like this, and we don't take their
bravery lightly.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
It's the epitome of the word courage, and we're honored
to bring you this upisode.

Speaker 3 (03:10):
Artemis, Pep Danny, and Nazanie Nor thank you so much
for being with us today on the good stuff. You know,
much of what we're going to talk about today has
to do with people uniting and fighting for a common good.

Speaker 4 (03:22):
So It's so meaningful for the two of us.

Speaker 3 (03:24):
To have the two of you side by side sharing
with us your stories.

Speaker 4 (03:28):
Welcome to the good stuff, Thank you, thank you for
having us.

Speaker 3 (03:32):
We're here in Dallas, Texas and Artemis. You're actually from
Texas as well?

Speaker 4 (03:36):
Correct, Yeah, I'm from Houston, but I did go to
college in Dallas, Southern Methodist University. Rights I got out
of there, you know, I wanted to make money doing
the thing that I studied doing and it just wasn't
going to happen in Dallas. What did you study theater there?

Speaker 5 (03:58):
It's there?

Speaker 4 (03:58):
Yeah, and then and that's an eight year from Virginia.

Speaker 6 (04:02):
Yeah, I'm from Arlington, Virginia originally, so right next to DC.

Speaker 5 (04:06):
It's a really nice area to grow up.

Speaker 6 (04:07):
And I was just recently there, so it was nice
to kind of be back and appreciate it again, because
when you're gone for so long, you don't realize how
amazing it was as a.

Speaker 5 (04:18):
Place to actually grow up. So, yeah, very cool area.

Speaker 4 (04:21):
And you also studied theater.

Speaker 5 (04:25):
I didn't. Actually, I was always in the performing.

Speaker 6 (04:27):
Arts and I played violin and I would do school theater.
I went to Georgia mac University and I studied government
in international politics and double majoring communications. I thought I was
going to go to law school, and after working for
a few years in corporate.

Speaker 5 (04:40):
Litigation, I was like, I'm gonna go.

Speaker 6 (04:42):
Actually, after my dreamca this makes me want to jump
out of a window.

Speaker 5 (04:46):
So I did not study theater.

Speaker 4 (04:48):
Okay, y'all, this is great that this just happened. I'm
just gonna I'm just gonna let y'all know right now,
Hell this is gonna go. This one is like articulate
members things, retains information, is able to like eloquently get
out information. I will play the blobby amba weepy mess

(05:10):
of this whole thing, so you'll see that most of
the time I will have to defer to her, to
the to the stuff that counts.

Speaker 3 (05:17):
So tell us about your childhood growing up in your
family's there in Houston, Texas and then in Virginia.

Speaker 4 (05:24):
What was that like in Houston when we were there,
it was like in the eighties and the iron hostage
crisis had happened, So there were definitely a handful of
like incidences of weird racist stuff, but it wasn't very much,
which I know is like saying no, it was decent
amount of racism. It was fine, it happened. But the

(05:47):
thing is, Houston's actually really diverse, right, and it even
was when I was a kid. So there's at least
that most of the stuff that was weird for us
being an Iranian family in Houston happened while I was
in elementary school. While that was like fresh on people's
minds are going on now. We didn't move to Houston

(06:09):
with a community with an Iranian community, which is different
from a lot of Iranians coming over. So we came
and we were very secluded, and we had a couple
of families that were Iranian friends. They lived on the
other side of town and they would come visit. I
hear there's a huge Iranian community in Houston shout out,
but they were on the other side of town. Man,

(06:30):
I didn't have any access to them. So I had
a very separated, isolated youth growing up. That doesn't mean
my parents tried to not They were very proud of
being Iranian, and so was I. Sometimes I should have
maybe kept my mouth shut. They spoke to me only
in Farsi and let me learn English from television sort

(06:52):
of thing. I think the important part here is growing
up without a sounding board a community to be able
to share those experiences. So I got everything through a
funnel of whatever was coming through my parents. What about you, Nazani?

Speaker 6 (07:06):
Growing up in the Northern Virginia area, we had a
lot of family friends that were Iranian, So we did
grow up with a community of Iranians around us in
that our parents are still friends, all the kids grow
up together, so these are people that are still very
much a part of my life. You know, it's like
your extended family. So we were very lucky in that way.
And the DC metro area is home to one of
the biggest Iranian communities outside of Los Angeles, so that

(07:28):
was great.

Speaker 5 (07:28):
You know.

Speaker 6 (07:29):
We went to Persian school growing up, and I feel
like there were families that moved to the States, and
this is true for like all immigrant classes, not just Iranian.
Some tried to assimilate and some don't. And my parents
were very much like, you're Iranian. This is not an
American family in the sense of like, well, how come
so and so can do all this? In that it's like, well,
you're Iranian, so that's not how we're growing up. So

(07:50):
we had that instilled in us, and I just remember
my elementary school was like pretty fun at that point.
We were in a neighborhood with other immigrant families that
were from various countries, so it felt like I belonged
somewhere because it was like all of us were like different,
quote unquote. Even though I was born and raised in America,
I was always made to feel like I wasn't American
enough just because of where I come from, my name,

(08:12):
what I look like, what my traditions and cultures are.

Speaker 5 (08:15):
So that was very interesting.

Speaker 6 (08:17):
And then when I moved to another area in northern
Virginia called Centerville, and that's where I went to middle
school and high school.

Speaker 5 (08:22):
And my middle school and high school were predominantly white.

Speaker 6 (08:25):
There were just a handful of Middle Eastern kids in
that school, and that's where I experienced a lot of
like racism and bullying and teasing and just things that really,
you know, the names that I was called at a
young age, it still has stuck with me. And if
I hear those words, or if I hear anyone use
them toward anyone else, I like immediately want to jump
in and defend.

Speaker 5 (08:45):
So it was interesting.

Speaker 6 (08:46):
And it was interesting because the more I got teased
and bullied.

Speaker 5 (08:51):
It made me.

Speaker 6 (08:52):
Double down harder on my identity because I was just like,
you know what, middle finger to you guys. I'm very
proud of who I am and where I come from.
Just like Artemis said, it really instilled this sense of
I don't know, just I guess strength and pride in
the moment, you don't know, that's what it is. In
the moment I'm you know, I'm terrified being cornered on

(09:13):
the bus and some guy calling me a sand end word,
you know, like in front of all these people, and
nobody's sticking up for you. So that was also really
hard to see. But yeah, it was a really interesting
upbringing you have that, and then you know, still had
my own community there, which you know, is always very supportive,
and we were always kind of in our own bubble,
I guess, sometimes getting infiltrated from these outside sources. But

(09:36):
still had a great childhood when you grow up Iranian
in America, especially because my parents came before the revolution,
they lived through the hostage crisis as well, and they
had to tell people that they were from another country
so that they wouldn't get beat up because people on
their campus in DC were getting beat up for being Iranian.
So there's a lot of things going on that made

(09:58):
it difficult for us and our family, but we still
stuck our community, just like stuck by each other. And
I think that was one of the things that always
stuck with me, was this sense of community that we
have as a people.

Speaker 4 (10:09):
What was your family's ethnicity.

Speaker 6 (10:12):
Well, they would say that they're from Afghanistan because at
that time too, it's a neighboring country. But they were
like these Americans won't know. That's like right there too,
So yeah, they would say they're afghan Yeah, until things
blew over.

Speaker 4 (10:24):
And they don't. You're right, Americans don't know.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
I was always the person that took up for the
people that got picked on and bullied in school, and
it pisses me off. And it's like, listen, you know,
my grandfather didn't fight and bleed for select people to
be treated a certain.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
No, it's for everybody.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
It really irritates me that the ignorance was so abundant.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
And you know what, frankly still is.

Speaker 6 (10:51):
Absolutely can I make a point to that too. It
was I found my bully online years ago. I'll never forget.
I think he either liked sent me a friend request.
This is when everyone was still using Facebook. He like
tried to send me a message or something and or
friend requested me. And I remember I was on a
plane and I just looked at it and I got
even talking about it, I still get it's I don't know,

(11:15):
you get taken back to your childhood, or it's like,
oh my god, it's that guy that cornered me on
the bus multiple times, and you feel like scared for
some reason. And I was like, I am going to
conquer this right now, and I'm going to finally be
able to speak back to him and say the things
that I couldn't articulate when I was like fifteen years old.
I sent him this long message. At first, I said, Hey,
is this so and so from Centerville High School? And

(11:37):
he was like, yeah, oh my god, I remember you,
Like he was very excited.

Speaker 5 (11:40):
And I was like, I don't think.

Speaker 6 (11:41):
He remembers what he did, and if he does, he's
suppressed it. And so I wrote him this really long
message of I just wanted you to know that when
these things happened in high school, and you did these things,
and I listed them out.

Speaker 5 (11:53):
I remembered the names he called me.

Speaker 6 (11:55):
I remembered even the things that he said from like
when I was fifteen years old, verbatim, and I said,
you know, it made me feel unsafe. I felt really scared.
It made me feel more different and isolated. And I
see in your family photos that you have a daughter,
and I just want you to think of like your
daughter going to school and somebody treating her the way
you did to me, or cornering her on a bus
and making her feel unsafe.

Speaker 5 (12:15):
And I even, you know, I said the names that
he called me, the.

Speaker 6 (12:18):
Racial slurs, blah blah, and I was like, I'm not
looking for anything. I'm you know, this isn't something I'm
going to go post because that was also during a
time where a lot of people were like kind of
posting screenshots of calling things out. And I was like,
I'm not trying to like dox you or anything. I
just want you to know, person to person, how this
made me feel. And I hope that you've changed and
that you, I don't know, don't ever do that again.

Speaker 5 (12:38):
And teach your kids not to be that way either.

Speaker 6 (12:40):
And I just remember sitting on a plane watching and
hit the bubbles kept popping up like he was typing
and then he'd stop typing, and then he'd type, and
he stopped typing.

Speaker 5 (12:46):
And that went on for a few minutes and he
never wrote me back.

Speaker 4 (12:50):
So so he's still a coward.

Speaker 1 (12:52):
We'll just we'll put in it they still a coward.

Speaker 3 (12:54):
Yeah, wo basically, But good for you for doing that.
And how freeing was that on your soul to be
able to say those things to this person that at
such a young age. I mean, that's traumatizing, But you know,
it's that whole thing where people that clearly either you know,
whatever happened in his family, he's repeating it and he didn't.

Speaker 1 (13:11):
At some point.

Speaker 2 (13:11):
You have to make a conscious effort, though, to break
the cycle. If you don't take control of that, nobody's
going to it's just going to be a perpetual, vicious
cycle that doesn't do anything to make the world a
better place. That to me, is an overused excuse that, hey,
you know, I grew no one cares be better. Suck less,

(13:32):
that's it.

Speaker 5 (13:33):
I totally agree with you.

Speaker 4 (13:34):
People use things as crutches.

Speaker 6 (13:36):
Suck less is great, and it's like, yeah, now that
you're an adult, I hope these are not the behaviors you're.

Speaker 5 (13:40):
Still continuing and totally.

Speaker 4 (13:49):
You said the word pride, and Jake and I get that.

Speaker 3 (13:52):
You know, I grew up here in Texas seventh generation
text and Jake is originally from Louisiana but.

Speaker 4 (13:57):
Got to Texas as quick as he could.

Speaker 1 (13:58):
Fact.

Speaker 3 (13:59):
But still both very proud of you know where you
come from and to have that and even as you
spoke to artists like you really felt it from your
parents and your house. But then to go outside and
be afraid to portray that. You know, both warriors and
that's why you're on the show and we truly appreciate it.
Let's switch gears and talk about when you both got

(14:20):
into acting.

Speaker 4 (14:22):
My sisters are ten and twelve years older, and I
am the first one in my family born here or
in the States. So in especially our generation of Iranians,
you're not going to go do fruity crap like being
the arts. That's not what you do. Then you're going
to be a doctor, you're going to be an engineer,

(14:43):
you're going to be a lawyer facts, yeah, I mean,
or really gorgeous and marry one of those. So bring it,
you know, get the right nose job and go for it.
So it was in junior high is where I started
realizing that this is what I liked and but I,
from my perception, was good at and my parents fought

(15:04):
it a lot because they also there's this weird overprotectiveness
that happens with a lot of immigrant parents that they're like, no,
you were not going to stay after school. Who's going
to be watching you after school to do whatever program?
And you're going to go on weekends to do what,
compete in tournaments, to be in rehearsal. What happens in
these places is it math? No? No, So you know,

(15:26):
for a while there was that fight back and forth,
and then finally there are two big things that I
think helped change my parents' minds, and one is that
I was in high school. It was one of the
plays that I finagled them to let me be in,
and they saw me in it, and then I think,
like in the bathroom during intermission, somebody said that I

(15:48):
was good, and my mom heard that, So there's that,
so just that somebody else's validation that I was good
at it. But also my sister's ten and twelve years
older had not turned into the lawyers and doctors and
whatever that they wanted to do, so I think by
this time they were like, eh, screw it. As long
as she continues her education, is educated and what she

(16:11):
wants to do she has a passion for it, then fine.
And I've got to say that was a rarity for
our generation of Iranian Americans. So I'm very fortunate that
they were so supportive. It took some effort, but they
really yeah, and thank got.

Speaker 2 (16:29):
Too, because it's like, you know, you wouldn't have been
able to do what you're doing and finding that fulfillment.
And because think about how many people we know, you
guys us that are adults that are still like I
still don't know what I want to do, Like I'm
still trying to figure it out.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
You know.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
When I joined the Marines, I signed up at the
beginning of my senior year and I didn't tell anybody
because I thought that was a good idea. And it
turn turns out I probably should have run it by
a few people, and my dad found out at my
high school graduation.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
It went over really really well.

Speaker 5 (17:05):
Sounds like I did.

Speaker 4 (17:07):
How did he find out? Did they?

Speaker 2 (17:09):
Which? My recruiter showed up in his dress blues to
surprise us, and I was like, well, you surprised more
than me. Man.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
Oh no, wow, Oh my dad he was pissed.

Speaker 4 (17:20):
Dad didn't talk to him for like three months.

Speaker 5 (17:22):
Yeah, so you're dadsy Runnian.

Speaker 4 (17:26):
How did you know?

Speaker 5 (17:27):
That makes sense?

Speaker 2 (17:29):
So it was like, I mean, it all worked out,
but I didn't understand as an eighteen nineteen year old
why it's like, hey, man, you know your older brother,
your dad, Like, I'm just carrying on a legacy that
you know, is I feel like in my DNA, which
I know now.

Speaker 1 (17:46):
Is absolutely in my DNA. And I just didn't understand that.
He was just worried about his boy.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
That's what it was, because he had seen the effects
of war on people, you know, and it was just
him being worried. No one's more proud of the Marine
Corps of the military than my dad. But but at
the time, but at the time, he was like, hey,
dumb ass, like you were supposed to go play football.

Speaker 1 (18:10):
And I was like, well, yeah, but that was your dream.
That wasn't my dream. But it was.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
I don't regret any of it. It was great learning experience.
You know, y'all know how that goes. It's happened with everybody.
You have that push and pull with your parents and
it's like how much further can I move the line?
And then they're like no, this is the hardcore boundary
and it's like, are you sure because I think I can.

Speaker 6 (18:34):
Well, they project their fears too onto you as well,
which is what is That's all it is.

Speaker 4 (18:40):
You both touched on it. It's their fear.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
Yeah, and I think that's very much a human element
thing and a love thing.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
You know, it comes from a very true, real place.

Speaker 5 (18:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:52):
And at eighteen nights, I mean, I don't know about
you guys, I still did no shit and I was.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
I didn't get it. I didn't get it. I was like,
what's the where's the beef? Man? Like why why?

Speaker 2 (19:04):
And of course the way things played out with my
career and stuff like that, it was you know, but
he was right there never, I mean, he showed up,
never left my side, and you know, he couldn't be
more proud now though, so real love it, Yeah, for sure,
for sure?

Speaker 4 (19:20):
What about you, Nazany.

Speaker 6 (19:22):
From a very young age, I was reading very young
and I was like writing very young. So it was
a creative outlet for me to constantly be like I
was an only child until I was six and so
when I wasn't with our family friends, I was like
writing plays for my stuffed animals, and my mom said,
like they would walk in and listen to me recording
myself and listening to it back and laughing at myself.

Speaker 4 (19:42):
And just doing really interesting things as a child.

Speaker 6 (19:45):
So I feel like I did all the school plays.
I started playing violin, so I was very much into
the arts. I was also doing theater as well, and
I remember my parents coming to see the first play
I was in and I had to kiss a boy
and it was.

Speaker 5 (19:56):
Only on the cheek. It was only on the cheek,
and I I was terrified for like the whole lead
up to it. I was like, Oh my god, what
are my parents going to do? And say did you
tell them?

Speaker 4 (20:07):
Did you warn them?

Speaker 6 (20:08):
I didn't warn them because I don't remember warning them.
I was like, it's just so quick, it's such a
peck on the cheek, Like it's not going to bother
them at all.

Speaker 5 (20:15):
It definitely bothered my dad.

Speaker 6 (20:17):
So they were very supportive of that, but they supported
it as a like, oh, this is her passion hobby.
And then, like I said, I went to get my
degree to be a good Iranian girl, because my dream
has always been like I grew up watching Saturday Night
Live and all the sitcoms like Fresh Prints, Living Single,
like Threes Company reruns, Like that was my vibe, and
that's what I wanted to do. And you know, when

(20:38):
a lot of my friends were talking about like weddings
and what my wedding's going to be, like, I was like, oh,
and then when I win this award, I'm gonna like
I want to be like this.

Speaker 5 (20:45):
And I want to say this.

Speaker 6 (20:46):
So it was always in my dreams, but I figured
maybe that's just a dream to have because I have
to go be a good Iranian girl.

Speaker 5 (20:54):
And like Artemis was saying, we were talking about parents.

Speaker 6 (20:56):
I understand now as you get older, their immigrant parents
who came and my parents weren't meant to stay here.
They came in nineteen seventy five to go to university,
get their degrees and go back like a lot of
your audience, same yeah, same, So when the revolution happened,
they got stuck in this country because then the war started.

Speaker 5 (21:16):
They have a fear.

Speaker 6 (21:17):
Of course, It's like we struggled to build something in
a country we weren't even supposed to be in with
zero family around, Why would you choose to go into
a profession where you're literally going to have to struggle.
So I know their resistance to me pursuing acting and
entertainment as a career is out of a love, out
of not wanting to watch me struggle. But I worked

(21:39):
in corporate litigation for a few years and I was
burning out because I hated it, and I moved to
New York. I worked for this big international firm and
I worked out this deal with them where from four
pm to midnight, I would do you know, my billable hours,
and during the day, I was like trying to get
auditions on my own and land an agent.

Speaker 5 (21:55):
And I was like, I'm gonna go insane.

Speaker 6 (21:58):
So I got to get rid of one thing, and obvious,
I'm going to get rid of the stable job, and yeah,
I'm gonna go do the other thing, the acting thing,
and have all the side jobs. And my dad has
always been really supportive in the sense that he was like,
I love you, I know you're talented.

Speaker 5 (22:15):
You just have to know this business is hard.

Speaker 6 (22:17):
You're not famous, you don't have famous parents, and you're
not wealthy. And so I was like, I know these things,
but I still want to do it, so he would
support as much as he could. My mom was much
more resistant, hated it. My mom actually still a month
ago after we just closed a show I did, was like, Okay,
now that that's done, sure you.

Speaker 5 (22:38):
Don't want to go back to law. I'm like, how
many years do I have to be in this for? Yeah?

Speaker 6 (22:42):
Anyway, they all come around and they support you when
they see that you're happy, and just as Artemis said,
when they see that also there's other people that are
connecting to what you're doing and giving you some sort
of accolades, it makes them a little bit more comfortable.
I feel like to be like, okay, maybe she's doing Okay,
maybe will let her do this?

Speaker 4 (23:01):
Yes, I don't have a choice. Yeah exactly. Yeah, but
what is the to be like effective and to be
affecting people? What more is life about? What more is
could your job be about? And for them to be
able to see that, yes, that is exactly what you
were doing, yeah right, it must be huge.

Speaker 6 (23:21):
Yeah, I think for them seeing you know, the last year,
Artemis and I did a play together that was about
Iranian women and friendships based in Iran, and for them
to see the reaction from Iranian audiences watching it, saying
that they've never seen themselves reflected on stage before, and
how they connected and to even see non Iranians being

(23:42):
so connected and moved by these stories also, I think
again shows them like, oh, this art that they're doing,
these things that they're doing are impacting people in a
way that's beautiful, and that is actually spreading the one
thing we always try to instill them is pride in
their culture, and they're doing it on the literal and
figurative stage, so it makes it easier for them to

(24:04):
I guess, be accepting of it.

Speaker 3 (24:05):
By the time your paths crossed in twenty twenty two,
y'all both had extremely impressive careers in that New York
City theater. Tell us about how the two of you met.

Speaker 4 (24:16):
The play was called Wish You Were Here by Sonos Tuci,
and it's absolutely amazing to me and to many many people,
and to me. It was supposed to be at a
Williamstown Theater festival, and I think it was twenty twenty one,
and you know, they weren't able to do the festival
because of all the COVID times, so they were going
to present it.

Speaker 5 (24:36):
Through audible, audible, yeah, audible theater.

Speaker 4 (24:38):
So they cast us all and then our rehearsals were
on Zoom and then we were going to record it online.
First of all, in a very personal it's okay, it's okay,
this is so childish. But when my agent or manager

(24:59):
whoever told me about the role, of course, they're like,
do you want to do this because this is the
pay and uh, and I was like, I was floored
that this is stake a pee. I was floored that
anybody viewed me as an Iranian at all. I never

(25:20):
thought that that part of me was seen. I was
just so touched by that. And there was nothing I
wanted to do more than to do that play. And
then all of a sudden we meet on zoom and
all they were all these squares and they were all
there were five Iranian American actresses, which I've never seen

(25:43):
five Iranian American actresses together, all in the same complexion,
all talking about the same issues, and Saunas was on
it too, and just the moment of seeing all of
us there was yep, magic can confirm. Everybody was crying. Yeah.
I did not expect that to affect me so much, so,

(26:07):
so crazy it's just not an opportunity you get as
an actor speaking is an Iranian. You're never rarely are
you going to see unless it's a specific story, or
you're not going to get two Iranian actors in the show.

Speaker 6 (26:19):
And that's why it's so important to that point that
it's very cliche, but representation matters because the fact that
you know, getting us all in a room and we're
all sobbing and having like trauma from it, it actually
also shows how far we need to go in this
industry about like we shouldn't be that rare.

Speaker 5 (26:38):
For these types of things to happen.

Speaker 6 (26:39):
But to finally, you know, a lot of the scripts
that I came across my way early on where just
everything was terrorist related or terrorists adjacent, or you're the
wife of a terrorist, you're the daughter of a terrorist
who flips and helps the Americans, or it was just
all that type of storyline.

Speaker 5 (26:54):
And I got to a point too where I.

Speaker 6 (26:55):
Was like told my team, I was like, I don't
want to see any more of these scripts. I'm not
even going to audition for anything. I'm not perpetuating the stereotype.
So to finally see like, oh my god, it was
literally the stories of our moms, because this Wish you
were here starts in one year before the Islamic Revolution
in Iran and it goes over thirteen years to show
the friendships and how the relationships developed between these women
and what happens to people through revolution, war, immigration and

(27:18):
all that kind of stuff, and it is actually showing
Iranians for who they are, human beings who are warm, compassionate, kind, loving,
proud people from thousands of years of history, who are
going through these emotions that every human goes through, who
are seeking the things that every human seek.

Speaker 5 (27:36):
And you know, not a one.

Speaker 4 (27:37):
Terrorist, yes, not a one terrorist also a huge thing.
Here were women who, yes, some crap was going down,
but there were also so many moments of joy, so
many moments of these women just appreciating each other being friends,
of having normal moments together. Not oh Ali was such

(27:58):
a good boy. Why why.

Speaker 1 (28:03):
Why did she go ating?

Speaker 4 (28:07):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (28:08):
Yeah, that moment was.

Speaker 6 (28:09):
And then when we finally met in person at the theater,
we all just kind of had this like, oh, like,
we all know each other because we've been on zoom
for months. And then we were in this Remember we're
in the big the rehearsal space and first day of
any play, it's like everyone from the theater is there,
the creative team, it's like literally the whole theater, and
they watch you do a table read in front of everybody.
They show you the set, the mock up of the set,

(28:29):
and I remember we all huddled around the mock up
of the set and I immediately burst into tears because
my aunt, had of my mom's sisters, had died like
two weeks prior to these rehearsals, and her home in Ahvaz,
which is where my family's from the southwest of Iran.
This set designer Arnolfo, who has won Tony's like he's genius,

(28:53):
made the outdoor area called the hayat of this house.

Speaker 5 (28:57):
It looked exactly like.

Speaker 6 (28:59):
My aunt's house in Iran, to the types of brick
that's very specific to Iran, to the cement, to the flowers,
and I just started crying.

Speaker 5 (29:08):
I was like, Oh my God, we're in my aunt's
house and.

Speaker 6 (29:10):
It's just it's this feeling of we were just looking around,
like the reference photos that were on the wall for
cast costumes and set design. It was just and they
did such a meticulous job which is you know, what
everybody should do on a professional set.

Speaker 5 (29:22):
We're not used to such as always. We're not used
to that people getting where we're from.

Speaker 6 (29:26):
You know, I've been on sets where they try to
bring me stuff for Iranian that is like literally from
like India. I'm like, these are two different countries, not
the same thing. But it was just so to all
of us experience that together and know that like I'm
not the weirdo alone crying like my other castmates were
all like wow, and being in that room together and
finally having people again see us for who we are

(29:48):
and not for this stereotype that's been perpetuated, which I'm
sure we'll get into. But you know, for years, people
have conflated the Islamic Republic's regime with the people and
the history of Iran, and we've worked so hard to
like distance those two things from one another. So these
pieces of art feel like small steps in you know,
getting to that goal.

Speaker 3 (30:07):
Absolutely and clearly they took such meticulous care to get
it right.

Speaker 4 (30:11):
They really did.

Speaker 5 (30:12):
Yeah, they did a great job.

Speaker 4 (30:17):
So wish you were here.

Speaker 3 (30:18):
Closed just a few months before the death of Masa
Amini on September sixteenth, twenty twenty two, Can you tell
us about who Massa Amini was and how did she die?

Speaker 4 (30:30):
Man, She's a regular person, a regular person of Kurdish descent.

Speaker 5 (30:35):
It's also important to point out.

Speaker 6 (30:37):
Because ethnic minorities in Iran are also persecuted, and Kurdish
people especially of been historically persecuted. Her name is Massa
Gina Amini, so under the Islamic Republic, you can't give
your kids names that are deemed un Islamic. So Masa
was her government given name, but her family calls her Gena,
which is why it's like always very important to include
that when talking about her. And twenty two year old

(30:57):
girl just went into the capitol with her brother and
family to visit Tehran. She was stopped by this morality police,
which I've been stopped by before an iron, It's very
scary and the only thing that saved me was my
American passport and my cousin's trying to explain that, oh,
she didn't know, you know, and so she was stopped
in proper headjob. The brother and her were really trying

(31:19):
to fight back because everyone knows once you get put
into one of these bands, anything can happen, so they
were just trying to make sure she didn't get taken away.

Speaker 5 (31:27):
She was taken away.

Speaker 6 (31:28):
She was, according to eyewitness accounts, reportedly dealt so many
blows to her head that she and there's CCTV footage
from They take them to these re education centers, you know,
to like teach them some sort of it's almost like
conversion therapy, but for like whatever that falls under that umbrella.

Speaker 5 (31:44):
She fainted and we see this on camera.

Speaker 6 (31:46):
She kept complaining about a headache, falls into a coma,
has to be intubated, and then two days later she
actually dies. And that was, you know, the powder keg moment.
I always try to compare it to in twenty twenty
when George Floyd was murdered by the police. That was
a powder moment for us to come out and protest,
and it was against police brutality and systemic racism. So
it wasn't just about George Floyd, but it was about
this bigger problem. So just as Iran has had these

(32:09):
like ebbs and flows of protests, Massogina was a powder
keg moment and it just brought everybody out into the streets.
That police station she was taken to specifically is notorious
for mistreating and abusing the girls that get brought in there.

Speaker 4 (32:22):
It was just like this whole.

Speaker 6 (32:24):
I don't mean this term to be positive, but it
was like the perfect storm of things happened and it
just kind of that was the catalyst for where we
are now.

Speaker 3 (32:31):
What did your life look like in the days and
weeks after you wrap the production of Wish You Were
Here leading up to her death? And what kind of
personal effect did that have on you?

Speaker 6 (32:40):
Artmis and I went back to La and I, you know,
still just our you know, regular life summertime in La.
Some things had happened in Iran that I had spoken
out about on social media. There were protests that were
kind of like flaring up in different cities over different things.
They are always there's always a catalyst for something like
for one example was like I said, my parents are
from the south in a province called Klusastan.

Speaker 5 (33:01):
There was a water shortage due to.

Speaker 6 (33:04):
Corruption and water government mismanagement that broke out in twenty
twenty one. And so it starts as that, but really
it's the underlying We want to end to this regime.
We want to live in a secular democracy. We do
not want this theocracy. So there's always this like a
powder keg moment, like a spark, and then it gets
quashed in a few days. So some of those things,
there was flare ups that were happening, and it wasn't

(33:26):
as dominant in any type of media and news, and
it kind of came and went right, and it was
again it was care free, and I just remember I,
for the first time in my life, tried a dating app.

Speaker 5 (33:39):
I was like, Okay, this is fun. I sign up
for a hinge going out on dates, blah blah blah.

Speaker 6 (33:43):
And then I remember when the incident happened, when Massa
Amini was killed, when the news came out. But I
remember in that first week, I was trying to explain
to this person that I had gone out with a
few times, how what was happening, and how it was
so traumatizing for me, and how how you know. I
was trying to amplify everything I could, and the media

(34:04):
wasn't picking it up yet either. So we were all
in the diaspora just really trying to get the news
out there, and it was weighing on a lot of us.
And I remember he got either some sort of something
happened where I didn't text him back in time where
I forgot to call him and I was like, yeah,
you know, like my motherland is burning, it's not really,
it's not personal. And I just remember he was like
said something like yeah, sorry, you're dealing with all that shit,

(34:24):
and I just in that moment, I was like, I
cannot be around anybody that is not going to try
to understand my struggle and sorry, but like, fuck you
if that's your response to me saying that.

Speaker 5 (34:36):
Never talked to that person again either, but.

Speaker 4 (34:38):
And what's his name?

Speaker 3 (34:39):
Yeah, just texted to Jakil you might know.

Speaker 5 (34:43):
I mean, yeah, let me text you that.

Speaker 6 (34:44):
But it was one of those moments too where I
was like, wow, it was a little bit carefree for
us in the moments leading up and how things changed
so drastically and everybody hunkered down and we were like,
that's it. This is the last time that this is
going to happen, and the media is not going to
pay attention, and we're going to do whatever we can
to make sure that Iran stays in the new cycle.

(35:05):
And that just kind of became everybody's second job since
September is doing that.

Speaker 4 (35:10):
So life changed drastically coming off of the play was
always is going to be like a huge letdown and
a huge drop, and also like coming off of the
cultural experience that it was, it was like, now z
anyone was saying, so many things happened in Iran, so
many moments of uprising that get quelled, that get smooshed,

(35:32):
that get choked, and it happens constantly. It happens all
the time. I'll go to my parents' house and they'll
be like, Oh, this thing is happening. The water issue
was I'm surprised at Yeah.

Speaker 5 (35:44):
They killed people, they shot people.

Speaker 4 (35:45):
It was all happening, and it was just like, you know,
business as usual, a little bit down, but I still
had this thing that was now more alive in me
than had been before, this cultural understanding of that, Oh yeah,
there are a bunch of us who have this feeling
of oh, got it, this might be I don't mean
to take it so far away. You know, there's a
thing to be Iranian, and then there's a thing to
be Rannie an American and far away.

Speaker 6 (36:09):
Yeah, you're not close to your people, you're not close
to your family, you're not close to your land.

Speaker 4 (36:13):
And not being able to Sorry, y'all, I'm a mess
about this. Yeah, okay, just the idea that you're not
able to truly know what's going on. You're not able
to I don't know, it's a separate life. And so
you get these bits of information and when the news
of she didn't die immediately, no, it's like two days. Yeah,

(36:36):
so the news of what happened with her was bad,
and you know that it started to really affect people
was amazing. But this has happened before. I hate to
say this, but the problem with Massa I Meani, was
that she.

Speaker 6 (36:52):
Was not the first and she hasn't been the last
since even September.

Speaker 1 (36:57):
Yeah, I have no doubt about it.

Speaker 4 (36:59):
You know, there are years and years in the during
the Green Revolution, these women, I mean, it happens hundreds
of people, But every now and then you get this
one that like starts something. And then the thing with
Massa is that it didn't die down immediately. And we're
getting all the news that things are happening, and we're

(37:19):
getting as much news as we possibly can through our
own channels, and something starts feeling electric, like something is
happening there. We can't be there, but we can spread
the word that this might.

Speaker 1 (37:37):
Be the moment.

Speaker 4 (37:38):
This might be the thing that people have wanted for
so long, And if we can just get enough people
to pay attention to not be like, oh, that girl
died and yeah, shit sucks there, which happens a lot.
I think people just take for granted that, especially in
Middle Eastern countries and African countries, they're like yeah, lost
cause they just kind of like brush through what happens

(37:59):
in these specific country. It's like, no, every country has
their people fighting to live a life. That's just their lives.
And now it's like, so we're going through our own channels,
we're getting the information, we're trying to just throw the
information back out. Nazenin had a lot more you know,
through her history, through her past and what she's done

(38:19):
in the Iranian American community. She has so much more
information and so many more open channels. And I was
getting so much information from Nazenine and a few other
key players that were able to like spit out information
for the rest of us to be able to repost
and send out and any of us that had any
sort of notoriety or poll We're trying to use whatever

(38:41):
we had to get that word out.

Speaker 6 (38:44):
Yeah, and I think it caused an avalanche at that time.
It finally something broke where it people were really paying attention.
And I've never seen that type of unity in the diaspora,
and I haven't seen that type of support from And
this might sound silly, but it actually it's worth noting
that we had people from all over the world of

(39:05):
notable like the Kardashians were posting about what was happening
in Iran.

Speaker 4 (39:08):
Rappers were posting about like everything.

Speaker 6 (39:10):
People were actually paying attention, and I remember there was
this whole thing.

Speaker 5 (39:14):
It was called the Global Day of Solidarity for Iran.

Speaker 6 (39:17):
It happened on October first, and it was in one
hundred and I believe thirty or seventy cities across the globe,
and some people from Ellen DeGeneres's digital team had seen
some videos I posted, and I remember they reached out
and they're like, Hey, we want to do an Instagram
takeover where you can inform our audience of what is
happening in the world how they can support Iran. Ellen

(39:38):
was very invested, and to me just that it just
felt like, oh my god, Ellen cares about what's happening
in Iran and wants to talk about it. And then
again it might might be like normal for other things,
but for our cause, nobody has paid this much attention.
Nobody mainstream has paid this much attention to what's happening
in Iran and has wanted to help. And I feel

(39:59):
like from those from in that moment, from that, like
you know, after those the first big rally happened and
like international media was covering it, it seemed like, wow,
this is one of the shifts that we need for
this movement, this revolution to actually you know, continue to
fruition and be successful. Is for international community and key
players to watch what's going on, to amplify, to spread

(40:20):
to you know, stop passing legislation and upholding a legislation
that emboldens the regime and weakens the people. And it
was like I felt like up to us, it was
a duty of everybody that didn't live in Iran to
continue to just like you know, keep their foot on
the next the proverbial next of everybody involved, to be like,
we need to make this change and this is why.

(40:40):
And you have to pay attention now because we're going
to be in your face, you know, until you pay
attention to us.

Speaker 4 (40:45):
What was so important at that time for me was
getting the word out really so that the people in
Iran knew that other people cared, because there is no doubt.
Obviously they were doing the heavy lifting and they always
are doing the heavy lifting, and in this case, a
lot of it was young women and little girls doing

(41:08):
the heavy lifting. Yeah, aside from what politically people can
do and be aware of, it was really just Internet
was throttled. Everything was throttled. We just wanted them to
know that we are watching and we are there with you.

Speaker 5 (41:24):
And they were sending out messages, video messages. How they could.

Speaker 6 (41:27):
I mean, one of the most notable series of photos
you'll see from this last eight nine months is girls
with their backs to the camera taking off their head
scarves throwing up a middle finger to.

Speaker 5 (41:37):
The supreme leader.

Speaker 6 (41:38):
So it became this thing of like, we're going to
get our message out, but we're going to hide our
face for now. And one thing they kept saying was
please don't leave us alone. Please be our voice. Ye,
please don't leave us alone. Please be our voice. And
so you know, that's what.

Speaker 5 (41:51):
Everybody to do.

Speaker 2 (41:52):
They're the epitome of freedom fighters, straight up, like it
is so admirable in the face of what they're facing,
because you know, if you want to make a change,
you have to be willing to put your life on
the line.

Speaker 5 (42:07):
My friend has said this over the years.

Speaker 6 (42:08):
Tara actually another Iran American actress, Tarogrammy. She said, when
people say, like, you know, people especially in this country,
they try to shy away from politics or talking about
it or oh we should you know, not broach these topics.
And she was like, but to be Iranian American is
to be political because we were all born most of
us were born like after the revolution, and all we

(42:28):
got to see of our motherland. And I've visited Iran
a few times, is what it is like under oppression,
what it is like under this murderous dictatorial theocracy. And
so we can't avoid it. We can't not be political.
It's in our fabric. We can't go back to Iran.
I'll be you know, take detained, tortured, maybe killed or whatever.

Speaker 5 (42:48):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 6 (42:49):
I can't see my family, we can't go through traumas
with them or be happy or just have the normal
you know, say goodbye to dying grandparents. Like there's so
many things we can't do because of politics, so there's
no way to tell us that, like.

Speaker 5 (43:01):
Well, now is not the time.

Speaker 2 (43:03):
I think she's absolutely right, one hundred percent, Like how
it's unavoidable.

Speaker 1 (43:09):
It really is.

Speaker 2 (43:09):
I mean it's unavoidable and we need you know, there's
so many things we've our government has done. It's completely
counterintuitive to anything relating to common sense for the greater good.
If we're gonna nitpick these different countries that oh, well,
you know, we're gonna go do this and we're gonna
get involved or don't like trust me even even as

(43:33):
a marine, And it's like, why the fuck are we
doing this again?

Speaker 4 (43:36):
Like what what's the I can't imagine.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
It's willingness and obedience to orders our bosses go all
the way to the White House. Yeah you know, And
it's like I just it's I feel for you and
both of you and your families.

Speaker 4 (43:51):
And whenever I bring this up to American friends, which
I don't very much anymore because it never goes well.
My parents never thought they grow up in their country
be devastated. They had rights, They lived their life, They
lived a day to day life. They went to the
grocery store, they hung out with family, they had parties,
they didn't think that they would wake up to bombs everywhere,

(44:13):
to devastation, and you know that can happen everywhere.

Speaker 2 (44:19):
Yep.

Speaker 6 (44:20):
I have a friend who came from Iran, So I'm
just gonna word this so I don't reveal anything or gender.
This friend came during all of this and wanted to
attend a big protest in DC in support of the
Iranian people. And this person we were talking about it,
and they got really quiet and introspective, and I was like,

(44:42):
what do you not want to go because you're afraid
of you know, people seeing your face and all that,
And then they started crying. They were like, I just
don't know what it feels like to be able to
go and protest without thinking somebody might shoot me and
kill me while I'm out on the streets. And this
is like the first time that I'm going to get
to go protest and not have the fear of being

(45:03):
murdered or imprisoned.

Speaker 4 (45:05):
Yeah, and you don't hit me.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
That's beauty here, that's beautiful because if people asked me,
because again, you know, I was born a white kid
to a white family in the South. So according to
societal views and media and stereotypes like I'm supposed to
think a certain way, be a certain way X y Z,
and I'm a combat marine, I get stereotype two and
there I was wounded in war and blah blah blah,

(45:30):
and I'm supposed to be it's.

Speaker 4 (45:31):
A little more than blah blah blah.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
But really it was not, seriously, not really. It was
a shitty day at work. Could happen to anybody.

Speaker 1 (45:38):
It is what it is.

Speaker 2 (45:39):
They when people say, you know, Jake, don't, how do
you feel about that group doing whatever? And I'm like, hey,
when I signed on the dotted line for everyone in
this country, it wasn't an only if it was a
no matter what.

Speaker 6 (45:58):
But that's because you're also a true like you're actually
embodying the true definition of what it means to live
in freedom and democracy. It's not supposed to be just
for people I agree with or that agree with me.

Speaker 2 (46:08):
Right, No, in this country, you can disagree and still
love each other in this country.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
That's okay.

Speaker 6 (46:14):
I think it's really wonderful what you're doing with this
conversation as well, because I will fully admit that, like
what because when you said I'm a white man from
the South born today, And I'm like, immediately, my mind
of course goes to because you are based on your
own traumas and lived experiences. In my mind, you fit
the type of person that bullied me when I was younger, Right,

(46:37):
so we would think that maybe if I'm faced with
that again, does that come back? And it's so important
to have these dialogues and conversation to constantly remind ourselves, Okay,
first of all, not everybody fits into these things. And
second of all, we have so much more in common
than we do than we don't that like, look, you
know what I mean and.

Speaker 1 (46:56):
That that makes sense?

Speaker 2 (46:58):
Yeah, one hundred percent. And that's why it's people all
over the world. Trauma is trauma like it's pain and
suffering is relative. There's a reason there's no Richter skull
on it. There's a reason it can't be measured. It's
the one thing as a human race we can all
relate to. It's the one thing nothing else we have
because everything is so much different everywhere, pain and suffering.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
We can all relate to.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
And I'm like, if we could just lean in and
love hard on that one thing that we all know,
I think we would have a lot better globe to inhabit.
I'm sorry, but like I am, super fucking passionate about
people having the ability to live well. Yeah, and you
can't do that without a free society.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
It's impossible. It's impossible.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
Absolutely the places I've been, I've experienced this, and it's
literally my gums are tinkling right now because I'm thinking
about all of that shit, and I'm like, fuck, man,
why have so many of these people fought, bled and
died if we're just gonna keep doing the same old shit?

Speaker 4 (48:07):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (48:08):
Why?

Speaker 4 (48:09):
Life is hard enough? Yeah, life is hard enough. Right.

Speaker 2 (48:12):
I appreciate the fucking shit out of both of you,
and I want you to know that.

Speaker 5 (48:15):
Thank you. We appreciate you too, honestly and your passion.

Speaker 3 (48:22):
So we're recording this episode in early June twenty twenty three.
There's no way for us to cover everything that's unfolded
over the last eight or nine months. Tell us, from
your perspective, what all has happened in Iran?

Speaker 6 (48:34):
Yeah, I mean, just you know, kind of a very
brief cliffs notes. Since then, there's been mass protests over
five hundred and thirty people, according to rights groups that.

Speaker 5 (48:43):
We know of.

Speaker 2 (48:45):
Yeah, I was just about to say it's safe to say.

Speaker 5 (48:48):
It's more yep, but that's the number that you know.
I'm like, you can be safe quoting.

Speaker 2 (48:54):
I just want people to know. I want our listeners
to know it's never accurate. It's never it ever, it's
never accurate.

Speaker 6 (49:02):
When it comes to the Islamic Republic, everything is a lie,
so you should never trust anything they say. Over five
hundred and thirty killed. Seventy two of those children, youngest
being two years old. Women and men have been brutalized,
raped and tortured in detention centers and taken to black
site locations. People have been executed after sham trials by

(49:23):
public hanging for being involved in peaceful protests.

Speaker 4 (49:26):
There's absolutely no due process.

Speaker 6 (49:28):
Their families and most of these cases were not even
given a chance to say goodbye to them. So we
just see horrific videos coming out of family members learning
what just showing up to the prison doors thinking they're
going to see their loved one to visit them, and
finding out they were just hanged. You have girls, school
age girls, because gen Z was really at the forefront
of these protests, as we saw taking off their headscarves,

(49:49):
burning pictures of the supreme leader Ali Kramene and the
founder of the Islamic Republic were j La Homini, and
thousands of schoolgirls have been attacked by chemical gases while
they're in st school, taken to hospitals.

Speaker 5 (50:01):
And the really crappy part about this too.

Speaker 6 (50:03):
Is that the schoolgirl gas attacks have been happening since
November of twenty twenty two to this day. There's no
accountability and the only thing you can believe is the
regime must be complicit because first of all, loitering around
girls schools is like very difficult to do in the
Islamic Republic.

Speaker 5 (50:19):
They have eyes and ears everywhere.

Speaker 6 (50:20):
This is a regime that has kidnapped dissidents from abroad,
taken them back to Iran. One of them is currently
in Jamshee Sharmad and executed them because of speaking out
against the regime and any other crime they want to
put on top of them. They always put this corruption
on earth, war, waging war against God. It's this like
general umbrella term under their Sharia law. It can be

(50:42):
applied to anything you do. And so this a regime
that can probably knows where we are, you know, and
like can kidnap you from another country and bring you
there for execution. You cannot convince me or anybody else
that they do not know who and what is behind
these attacks, so everyone believes they're complicit because of that.
We had some successes with the UN Commission on the

(51:03):
Status of Women kicking the Islamic Republic off through this
big advocacy campaign and after it was asked for by
leading female human rights activist and atorneys inside of Iran, they
created a fact finding mission under the Human Rights Council
to investigate crimes against humanity committed by the Islamic Republic
from September.

Speaker 5 (51:18):
And that investigation is ongoing.

Speaker 6 (51:20):
But then the UN two weeks ago turns around I'm
getting livid, puts them as the chair of the Human
Rights Social Forum where they're going to be talking about
how technology.

Speaker 5 (51:29):
Can be used to promote human rights.

Speaker 6 (51:31):
This is a regime that's literally using technology to find
people and murder them, that's using facial recognition technology to
send tickets and imprison women for not wearing their head
scarves properly. We have a popular two popular rappers, two
March Sadaghi and Salmonia Sine, that were put in jail
simply for joining peaceful protests, and because the lyrics of
their rap songs, we're talking about the injustices committed by

(51:53):
this regime. That's like putting Kendrick Lamar, j Cole, you
know nas any of your favorite rappers, Tupac when he
was alive in jail because they were speaking of what
rep is, which is speaking of the injustice and the
pain of your community and the people. And these guys
have been tortured in prison. I've been in touch with
their families. They don't hear from them, they don't have
a trial date. They've been in solitary confinement for over

(52:14):
two hundred and thirty days, which is by all international
standards human rights abuse.

Speaker 5 (52:20):
This is psychological warfare and torture.

Speaker 6 (52:22):
And this is what happens to any The two journalists
that broke this story of Massa Amini have been in
prison facing charges that carry execution because they've been charged with, well,
you're a CIA agent, you're also a masad, you're with everybody, basically,
and that they did this to start controversy in the country.
So anybody that has a voice and has spoken out
against this regime has been brutalized or killed or executed,

(52:44):
and this is all ongoing right now, and we need
everybody to continue to keep their eyes on it, and
we need all global leaders to continue to not just
condemn through their words, but through their actions, to stop
supporting this regime and for the UN to have done
what they did, you know, after the two victories quote unquote,
you know before that it's just disappointing, mind boggling and

(53:08):
really angering and all of this. The most important thing
I wanted everyone to know is that all of this
is still happening in Iran. Iranians have felt for the
forty four years, you know, because before the nineteen seventy
nine revolution, Iran was ruled under monarchy and different dynasties,
and we have thousands of years of history and culture.
This is a blip in our history, this forty four
years of you know, black dark oppression. And I want

(53:31):
people to understand that the Islamic regime does not represent
our people, our culture, or our history, and to not
conflate them with the Iranian people, and that the main
thing that they're asking for that's in all the protest
chance is death to the dictator, death to the regime.
They want people to hear them to help them, to
not help the regime and to not let the Islamic

(53:51):
Republic get away with these crimes. And they're not going
to stop for them, there's no going back. So they're like,
we're going to keep doing this where the struggle, this
fight is ongoing until the regime is gone.

Speaker 4 (54:01):
For all these years since the Islamic Revolution, everybody in
the States, everybody everywhere has been afraid, meaning we're scared
to speak out because we don't know how our family
is going to be affected, any rotten or anybody related
to us. So a lot of us have kept quiet
and because we just grew up with that fear of

(54:23):
what we do and if we make a spectacle of ourselves,
someone else is going to pay for it, and in
ways that could be worse than death. The bravery knows
any you put yourself out there in such a way.
The work that people like nos Anying have done, like
nos An, sorry, what are you on with that so

(54:47):
many Iranians have done. This is not just like people
speaking out, This is people breaking this. This these like
chains of fear that have had all of us for
years and years that we've not been able to speak
out because we've been so scared. But now it's at
the point where like.

Speaker 5 (55:07):
There's nothing to lose.

Speaker 4 (55:07):
There's nothing to lose.

Speaker 5 (55:09):
They're going to torture and kill whether we stay quiet
or not.

Speaker 6 (55:13):
And for years they've gotten away with this because people
haven't been this loud, and because there have been other people,
unfortunately in the diaspora who have had platforms that have
not painted an accurate picture of what life is like
under the Islamic Republic have kind of whitewashed their crimes
or oh, it's not that bad. You know, it's their rule,
it's sovereignty, it's et cetera, et cetera. And it's like now, finally,
more and more people are coming out and being like, no,

(55:35):
this is the harsh reality of what life is like
under this regime. And you know, the people are saying
they want this. This isn't just us coming and imposing
our views. The people are literally screaming for freedom. We
have to listen to them.

Speaker 2 (55:47):
That's super I think important for our listeners to understand too,
is that this isn't just two Iranians that are like, hey.

Speaker 1 (55:56):
This is what we think.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
This is the majority, the vast majority, how they feel
and because of fear, they can't be a voice, especially
in their own country, and so it's super important that
people understand that's what a dictatorship is. It's oppression through fear. Absolutely,
you can't stay silent. And you're both warriors in every

(56:19):
sense of the word, just as much as me, just
as much as my uncle, my grandfather, and I commend
you both and anything we can do to help say.

Speaker 4 (56:27):
The word this is amazing. This platform is amazing.

Speaker 6 (56:31):
Yeah, I just want to make sure that we convey
that bravery is the people of Iran because they're actually
putting their lives on the line. So I really feel
like I'm not you know, I'm not being brave. I'm
doing what I should do as a human and I
don't run the risk of dying. And so I just
want to make sure that it's you know, conveyed that

(56:51):
you know, they're the ones that deserve all the credit.

Speaker 5 (56:53):
We're just trying to uplift them in the process.

Speaker 4 (56:56):
Yeah, there's a twelve year old girl whose name I
don't know, who is infinitely braver than I am.

Speaker 2 (57:03):
Being someone with my background, and the word hero gets
thrown around a lot, and I think it's completely lost
the true meaning. We can agree to disagree on that
and that's okay. It's okay in this country. You're both
warriors in every sense.

Speaker 1 (57:20):
Of the word.

Speaker 5 (57:20):
We appreciate that.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
Thank you for the people that are listening.

Speaker 2 (57:24):
What is a good call to action that want to
help and this fight for their greater good, that have
been touched by this episode.

Speaker 1 (57:34):
What can they do?

Speaker 4 (57:36):
There's a few things that they can do immediately.

Speaker 6 (57:39):
One is they can support legislation that's trying to be
passed through Congress called the Massa Act, and they can
support a companion bill being introduced in the Senate. They
can pressure elected officials in the United States government to
stop passing legislation or doing things that support and embolden
the regime and ask them to do things that.

Speaker 5 (57:58):
Support the people's movement for freedom.

Speaker 6 (58:00):
In the EU countries, they can pressure their elected officials
to designate the IRGC, which is the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corp,
As a terrorist organization because that has a lot of
legal implications and that's wonderful thing that people can do.
The third thing is to in general, you know, request
from your local media outlets to cover Iran more, join
a protest, follow Iranian human rights activists and advocates for

(58:21):
up to date information share posts because social media actually
does help. The Islamic Republic hates international attention on their
human rights abuses and so to continue to keep that
spotlight on them is great pressure the UN to take
them off of this chair of the Social Forum which
is supposed to start in September. And there's something called
the End Gender Apartheid campaign that I'm very proudly advocating for.
There are signatories from human rights activists and attorneys inside

(58:45):
of Iran and Afghanistan, and it's to name what is
happening to the people the women of Iran under the
Islamic Republic and the women of Afghanistan under the Taliban
as gender apartheid, which originated in South Africa and only
refers to racial hierarchy and subjugation. So we're trying to
make it legally enshrined as a term so that it
can be applied legally to these governments and hopefully end

(59:06):
systems of gender apartheid around the world. So you can
go to end Gender Apartheid dot today, add your name,
share it with your networks, make sure that it goes
global and one of the most recent signatories is Nelson
Mandela's wife, Gresha Michelle, So that's a pretty big deal
and a very important person to have joined the fight.

Speaker 5 (59:23):
So those are all things you guys can do immediately.

Speaker 4 (59:26):
I think also asking your government not to give these
people sanctuary, not to give them and their relatives. They
will flee you on some of them have already done
it and they're scared. Don't give them a place to
live and be safe and use the millions of dollars
that they have gotten, millions. Who knows how much money

(59:46):
they've gotten from the blood of the people.

Speaker 6 (59:48):
Yep. Revoke those visas, travel ban them, don't allow them
to come to the States or to wherever you are.

Speaker 3 (59:53):
What does it mean to you to be able to
speak your truth and use your voice because you have
come to your parents rather came to America and you
rebelled and both went into theater and now have the
ability to be a voice for your home country.

Speaker 6 (01:00:11):
When I started acting, I always look to other people
in this realm that I always looked up to artists
and entertainers, not just actors. Whether it was if we
want to go back in history, someone like Muhammad Ali
or Angelina Joli or just you know, Salma Hayek, anyone
who I always thought, you know, I don't want to
just use my platform. I'm not trying to just be

(01:00:32):
out here like wow, I'm I'm known, look at me,
I'm on.

Speaker 5 (01:00:35):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:00:36):
I want to use whatever platform I can gain from
what I do for a profession to draw attention to
human rights abuses. So, you know, talking about what's happening
in America, but obviously always using that as a platform
to talk about what's happening in my home country, and
I try to bring it into whatever I do in
my own art and trying to educate the masses. But

(01:00:57):
in a way that's like appealing to a Western An
audience to get them to stay engaged and listen. But
to me, it's like probably the most important aspect of
this career path is also using whatever platform you have,
whatever quote unquote connections you make to people that can
also help in these ways in different sectors of society,

(01:01:18):
and get them to pay attention to careen, to listen,
and actually work with people and organizations that can make
a change in this world. So I think we have
that responsibility and duty as artists to give back to
the world and make it as much of a better
place as we can. And I'll always be using it
to be loud and proud about Iran and to try
to help however I can to make sure the people

(01:01:42):
get what they're asking for, which is freedom.

Speaker 4 (01:01:48):
I never thought I would have the opportunity to help.
I've been so separate. People don't necessarily see me as Iranian.
What I do pales in comparison to what I do
is you know, reposts on Instagram and to Twitter. It
pales in comparison to what like now as that Nana
is doing, to what the girls in Iran are doing,

(01:02:09):
to what everybody is doing. But you know, there was
one do you remember early on that video that was
put together I think by you, by Arian moy Yet, Yes,
of getting a whole bunch of people, of getting a
whole bunch of celebrities together to like to put their
voice in and I for the first time, just did

(01:02:31):
anything Iranian on camera at the very end of it.
You know, my dad saw that, and like I said,
all these years, we've always been so scared to put
our names and our opinions out, and my dad thinked me,
which you know, he when he was here, he had

(01:02:53):
written some things against the Islamic Revolution. His name was published.
He was never able to go back. My dad thing
to me and then started telling me of the things
that he did and that he tried to do, you know,
to help. And I just never thought my modicum of
celebrity is that I could use that to do anything.

(01:03:18):
Is kind of floors me. And I tell you what,
for somebody who's been known as sometimes known as a
funny person, my instagram is a downer.

Speaker 6 (01:03:28):
But.

Speaker 4 (01:03:30):
It's got a lot of information just anything that and
you know, the people that wouldn't necessarily follow me aren't
the people that would necessarily get that kind of information.
So just that I have the opportunity to do anything,
I never thought in my life that I would get that.

(01:03:51):
And it makes me feel almost like all these things
that I never thought would happened might actually.

Speaker 3 (01:03:58):
It happen.

Speaker 4 (01:04:01):
I might get to go to my father's like tribal
land with him. I might get to see my aunts
who I've never seen before in my life. I might
get to go to my grandmother's grave, and I never
thought I'd be able to do that. Sorry, yanked, So
all these things it means. It just means the possible.

(01:04:25):
There are now possibilities that there weren't before.

Speaker 1 (01:04:28):
And that's what you know. We were meeting with someone.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
She said something to me that was really profound and
I've thought about ever since, and I've said it and
I've repeated this probably a dozen times since she told me.
And she's ninety six years young, and she looked at
me and she said, you know what, Jake, three million
dollars is great, but you can change the world with
three million people.

Speaker 5 (01:04:52):
That's true.

Speaker 2 (01:04:53):
Yeah, And it totally paunched me in my soul and
I was like, God, she's so right. There's power in numbers.
And if we could all just understand we all bleed
grid in the same way. You know, we're all connected
by default. Whether you want to believe it or not.
I don't give a shit. That's not happenstance. We're all connected. Yeah,

(01:05:16):
And if we could just lean in, like we could imagine.

Speaker 1 (01:05:21):
The power that we would have.

Speaker 6 (01:05:24):
And that's what dictators are scared of too. Yeah, is
us uniting and actually coming together and instead of having
these differences between us, understanding that you know, uniting for
these common purposes is going to be beneficial to us.
And you know, that's obviously why dictators like to keep
everybody at strife and apart. But like, yeah, what you

(01:05:46):
said about the three million, you know, imagine three million
people coming together for a cause, like the possibilities are infinite.

Speaker 1 (01:05:52):
And that's why.

Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
The last forty four years, something tells me that the
next four before we're going to look a lot different.

Speaker 5 (01:06:02):
I believe it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
Because I believe in the resilience of the human race,
and I believe in the resilience of the greater good,
and especially the.

Speaker 1 (01:06:14):
Fight for the greater good.

Speaker 2 (01:06:18):
I truly believe in it, and I'm hopeful and I
will die hopeful because even an inch of progress is
progress in the right direction.

Speaker 4 (01:06:30):
I'm sorry. I just want to point out right now
that I was completely correct in the beginning when I
said that I would be the amiba emotionalness and knows
I need it, would be the eloquent one with actual information.

Speaker 5 (01:06:42):
You are eloquent as well.

Speaker 4 (01:06:44):
Thank you. I just want to take my victories where
I can get them. I'd point them out.

Speaker 3 (01:06:48):
Artemis, Pep Danny and Nazini Nor ladies, thank you so
much for joining us. Thank you for telling us You're truth.
Thank you for using your voices in this fight for
freedom and really filling us in and helping us see
the beautiful people of Iran and what they're going through.
Thank you for being part of the good Stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:07:07):
You have so much more power.

Speaker 2 (01:07:11):
And strength and resilience than you think, and you are
making such a bigger impact than you may or may
not think. And I want you to know not to
stop burn. Your pain and your fear burn. It is
fuel to take more ground. That's what gladiators do, and

(01:07:33):
you're both gladiators.

Speaker 6 (01:07:36):
Thank you for having us on and for giving a
voice to the voiceless.

Speaker 4 (01:07:44):
You made all of us cry.

Speaker 5 (01:07:45):
Yeah, that was great.

Speaker 4 (01:07:47):
Thank you, ladies. Thank you so much for listening.

Speaker 3 (01:07:54):
If this episode touched you today, please share it and
be part of making someone else's day better.

Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
Hold on your badass capes like Artemis and Nazennin.

Speaker 2 (01:08:03):
Fight for what you believe in and go be great today,
and remember you can't do epic self without epic people.

Speaker 1 (01:08:10):
Thank you for listening to the good Stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:08:16):
The Good Stuff is executive produced by Ashley Shick, Jacob Schick,
Leah Pictures and q Code Media, Hosted by Ashley Shick,
and Jacob Schick. Produced by Nick Cassolini and Ryan Kantz
House post production supervisor Will Tindi. Music editing by Will
Haywood Smith, edited by Mike Robinson,