December 18, 2023 • 22 mins
In this episode, Karol discusses the importance of unsupervised play for children's mental health and the decline of outdoor play. She also addresses the issue of screen time and overscheduling. Karol welcomes Jason Riley, a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute, about the importance of two-parent families in reducing social inequality. They also discuss societal perceptions of marriage, the lack of open dialogue on controversial topics, and media polarization. Riley emphasizes the need for media diversity and open-mindedness to reduce societal polarization. The Karol Markowicz Show is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debit every Monday & Thursday.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio.
A friend said to me recently that the way to
protect your child from depression and anxiety to some extent
is to let them have a lot of unsupervised play
and minimal screen time. And I thought to myself, this
is not rocket science, but it's so hard to achieve.
I think a lot of people realize that this is
(00:26):
the path to having, you know, kind of a happier child,
but are unable to do it. And I thought back
to when my own kids were eight, five and two
in Brooklyn, and I noticed that my then eight year
old didn't have peers at the playground. The child population
of the park abruptly cut off at a certain age.
My two year old was saddling up to other two
(00:48):
year old who enjoyed, you know, pushing objects like strollers
and scooters around the perimeter of the park. My five
year old would join a crew of other five year
old boys and getting inexplicably dirty and turning all available
sticks into weapons. But my eight year old would often
find herself with no one her age around and end
up hanging off the monkey bars by herself. Where were
(01:10):
the kids? And of course it turned out they were
all in after school or weekend programs. Some did coding,
some learned another language, some took art or music. My
daughter did all of this too, at least in part
because everyone else did it and it'd be weird not to.
But we still left her with a lot of time
to do nothing much, especially outside, and it got harder
(01:33):
and harder to find kids her age to do the same.
Now my kids are thirteen, ten, and eight, and we
still prioritize them hanging out with friends, limiting their screens,
but it's rare to see that kids just playing outside
on their own. There are a lot of kids on
our block, but very few just run around outside, ride
(01:53):
their bikes or scooters or whatever, and just play outside
with no plan and no structured events. One neighbor told
me that kids used to play outside a lot, but
COVID moved everyone indoors and they just never reverted to form.
You know, this is South Florida. Nothing depresses me more
than hearing that unstructured play helps kids negotiate friendships and
(02:18):
use their imaginations to create a good time for themselves.
The physical activity of play also keeps kids healthy and
fights obesity and the rest of it. But it mostly
makes them not boring and not able to be as
bored as kids who rely on constant structure to have
a good time, you know. Back in twenty eighteen, the
(02:40):
website Matchable posted a video of a UK school program
that was very happy with the results they were having
from having students run around fifteen minutes a day outside
and one of my all time favorites. The University of
Tennessee law professor Glenn Reynolds tweeted at the time, we
shall call it recess. It's not like we don't know
(03:02):
that the accidental exercise of play has a variety of
benefit for kids, So why don't we encourage it more.
There's this worry, and I remember writing about it years ago,
but that any minute not overscheduled will lead to kids
getting up to no good. Mayor of New York builde
Blasio made some comment like, we can't have kids, you know,
(03:25):
not having anything to do. So, in addition to the
concern that kids will get into trouble if they aren't
meticulously scheduled and after school and weekend programming, the other
thing that parents in society, I guess, worries about is
screen time. The idea is that any moment that isn't
builled can devolve into TV or tablet time. And to
(03:46):
fight it, families are limiting free play, like, of course
my kid needs to be in seventeen activities, how could
I keep them off his iPad? Otherwise, what if parents
simply parented their children and said no to too much
TV and tablet time? The choice doesn't have to be
between planned and paid for activities or drooling in front
(04:07):
of the tube or being on the quote unquote streets.
You know. Take your eight, ten, twelve year olds to
the park, let them climb stuff and make new friends
on the fly. Think of it as like an enrichment
class for your kids. Marn Key bars one oh one.
It's just as important as there are other classes, but
free and useful. Coming up next and interview with Jason Riley.
(04:32):
Join us after the break. Hi, and welcome back to
the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. My guest today is
Jason Riley. Jason is a senior fellow at the Manhattan
Institute and columnist for The Wall Street Journal. So nice
to have you on, Jason.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Good to be with you, Carol.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
So in the research I was doing before having you
on the show, I discovered your super prolific and I
I don't feel like I was aware of that. You've
written four books. Which one was your favorite?
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Oh, that's a tough one.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
You hate them all right?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
No? No, The one I probably enjoyed researching the most
was a biography of the economist Thomas soul someone who
had been a real intellectual hero of mine growing up
when I was sort of starting to think about a
lot of the issues I write about today, and his
background is really fascinating, as is his body of work.
(05:34):
So I did very much enjoy diving, doing a deep
dive into his life and his writings, and so that's
probably my favorite.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
I really enjoyed that one. I have to catch up.
I don't think i've read two of them, so I'll
get on that before your next appearance. I've always enjoyed
your column and you're writing in general, but the column
that made me reach out to you to have you
on the show was the one that you just as
the left wing intellectuals who claim to care deeply about
(06:03):
the circumstances of low income minorities are simultaneously reluctant to
tell them the truth about what drives social inequality, and
you were describing Melissa Kearney's new book, The Two Parent Privilege.
I've talked about that book on the show before, but
I particularly particularly liked how you pointed out that her
book is not actually provocative or earth shattering, and plenty
(06:26):
of people have made the marriage is good argument before
using data and numbers, just like her, but that her
argument is aimed at liberals who know that she's right
but won't say so. So how do you challenge that?
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Well, I guess I guess you praise the liberals like
I try to do, who do speak honestly about these topics.
And you know, if they don't want to hear it
coming from me, or coming from Charles Murray or coming
from James Q. Wilson, maybe they'll want to hear it
coming from Melissa Carnie. So that's why I decided to
(07:02):
write about the book. But she's She's absolutely right. We
just have a ton of research showing that children that
come from two parent families tend to do better in life,
and that has been the case for a long long time,
and yet we continue to downplay the significance of the
two parent family and watch it diminish in terms of
(07:27):
its frequency. I think the data she had in there
was that in nineteen sixty just five percent of babies
were born to single moms. In twenty nineteen it was
close to half. I mean, two parent families are the
best way we know any civilization has known to raise
the next generation. I mean the idea that you could
(07:48):
see that sort of deterioration in the institution of that
raises the next generation and expect there to be no consequences.
It's just ridiculous on its face.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Do you think that her book moves the needle? Do
you think liberals do? I mean, the thing is that
they are largely the people who are saying to her,
we agree with you, We just don't think it's appropriate
for you to say, so are living that married too,
parent family life. So how do we make them kind
of admit what they have and what they're pushing other
(08:22):
people not to have.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Well, I think we have to call them out on
it frankly and highlight how ridiculous and how hypocritical their
actions are versus their words like you're right. I mean,
the old phrase for this used to be living the
fifties and talking the sixties. For your viewers that are
(08:44):
too young maybe to get that, it was a reference
to the nineteen fifties, when you much had more conservative
social values in contrasting that with the nineteen sixties, where
you had this countercultural revolution taking place and ro tests
and and and drugs and so forth, and it was
cool to embrace all that, and and many of the
(09:07):
adults who did embrace it nevertheless made sure that they
didn't live that lifestyle themselves. I think you have a
lot of that going on today. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
I think it's you know, live right, talk left is
the is the more you know the version I've heard recently.
So yeah, sorry, no, I was.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Just going to say. And And one of the things
that's fascinating about the importance of the two parent family
is that the outcomes transcend not only race and ethnicity,
but also income levels. In other words, there is a
stronger correlation between someone coming from a single parent home
(09:55):
and winding up in jail than there is someone being
black or hispanic and winding up the gym kids. Who
you know, black boys in general are suspended from school
at higher rates than white boys, but black boys from
two parent families are suspended less often than white boys
(10:16):
from single parent homes. So again, the importance of the
family transcends a lot of these other factors that we
look at as root causes of kids getting into trouble
or getting involved with drugs and so forth down the road.
And that's why I think that the right focus is
on re establishing the importance of the two parent family.
(10:36):
And we know, and we always have to use this caveat,
We know that there are heroic single moms that beat
the odds. Some of us are even related to them.
But nevertheless, I think as a society with a public policy,
our focus should be on steering the next generation in
(10:57):
the right direction so that they don't have to face
the odds to begin with. And and and that's I
think where the debate needs to be had.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Kearney, she actually describes marriage as people see it as
a luxury belief now, and I think that's such a
big challenge to overcome, Like where you know, poor or
middle class people see it as something rich people do,
and that's just wild to me. Why why why would
that be the case.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
I think that you know, partly this has to do
with an inability in society today to speak simple truths
about any number of things. I mean, Carney has these
stories about how when she was working on this book,
some of her colleagues in academia would approach her and say,
(11:44):
are you sure you want to publish your findings? You know,
you might be ostracized in certain social circles that you're
now embraced in. You might be considered a conservative and
a social conservative. And then that's the you know, nothing's
worse than that in the circles that she runs in.
But you know, put put the talk about talking up
(12:07):
marriage aside. You're not allowed to say that, you know,
the kid who swam on the boys team last year
shouldn't be swimming on the girls team this year. Right,
You're not allowed to say that math isn't racist. You're
not allowed to say that punctuality is not white supremacy.
There are so many.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Things it is white supremacy because I'm never on time,
and you know, Jews, Jews are only recently white.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
So so so there are any number of areas where
the adults in the room are no longer behaving like adults.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
And I guess we see that playing out on the
college campuses today once again. But but it's not just
saying honest things about marriage. There are there are so
many things that have become verboten recently that, uh, you know,
a generation of the they look at this, it's completely ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Right, yeah, telling the truth has become revolutionary somehow. Your wife,
Naomi Shaeffer Riley, is also a writer, and you guys
are in a similar right of center political space. Do
you guys have any disagreements on big issues?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Wow, let's get into it, Jason, I won't tell her anything.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
She's uh not, not on not on big issues. I
can't think of any really big issues where we have
a big disagreements.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Now, right, does she change your mind or you? Do
you change her mind? How does it? How does it
normally go? Because I know I changed my husband's mind.
My husband has all the time.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
She's absolutely that's right.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Good answer, good answer. How long have you been a writer?
Speaker 2 (13:58):
I've been writing since college. I started writing for the
Wall Street Journal about six months after graduating from college.
I've been writing for them for almost thirty years now.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
So I started at the school at the college newspaper
was my first job as a journalist, and then I
had an internship or two and worked at the local
paper where I went to school and for about six
months after graduation, and then I joined the Wall Street Journal.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Wow, So any takes that you've had over those thirty
years that you regret? I have a question of Kyle Smith,
and he was definitive.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
No.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
He stands by everything he's ever written.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
I can't think of anything i'd take back. Maybe the
tone would be a little different as you were sure
there should be I guess a little less self righteousness
as you get older. But I think that I pretty
much stand by what I what I think I've written years.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
I'm gonna have to go back and read some snarky
early Jason Riley columns.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Yes, yes, no shortage of those.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Do you feel like you've made it?
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Made it? Oh? Wow? Well, uh, the expectations were not
very high for me. Pretty much I had to stay
out of jail and I would be considered a huge
successful Buh No, I I I I think that, Uh,
you know, I wanted to get married, have a family,
make a career as a journalist, and so far, so good.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
So yeah, I feel like you're on the right track,
like really heading in that direction. Yeah, what would you
say is the biggest societal or a cultural challenge that
America faces and do you think it's solvable?
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Well, I would point to what we were started out
discussing the breakdown of the family because of all the
bad outcomes that that result from that. You know, from crime, uh,
you know, substance abuse, you know teen pregnancy, the cycle
that that occurs. So I think that is something we
(16:20):
need to address. I think we we can. I haven't.
I haven't given up on it. We have certainly have
examples out there that it still does work. If you
look at the highest performing groups in the US right now,
you're talking about Asian Americans. Guess who has the highest
marriage rates in the lowest out of woodlock Worth rates, Nasians.
(16:42):
So it still works and there's no examples around, and
not just Asians in America. If you look at South
Korea you will see the same thing. If you look
at Japan you will see the same thing. That this
is something that is not limited to to to the
US by by any stretch. So so I I I
think that is a big, big problem. I also, aside
(17:04):
from that, look at the political divisions in the country
and particularly the role that I think social media has
been playing in those divisions, and it seems to me
like that's something social media that is that we still
haven't gotten our heads around as this new phenomenon and
how to deal with it, and so I think that
(17:25):
is a challenge going forward. But I do think it's
something that we eventually will get the hang of. But unfortunately,
you know, I think things might might get worse before
they get better on that front.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Do you let your kids have social media? Are you
guys pretty strict about it?
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Speaking of disagreements with my wife?
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Oh, there you go, So there is some you.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Know, it's it's hard as your children get older. I
have two teenagers and one preteen. And I'm sorry, how
old are they? I have a sixteen year old or
fourteen year old and eleven year old, and the sixteen
year old and the fourteen year old, it's very hard
(18:06):
for them not to be on screens and even on
social media, even in terms of what the school is
expecting of them in terms of doing their school work.
And I do take some issue with that. We were
very strict with screen time before they were teenagers, and
that just became more and more untenable as they got older,
(18:30):
and so you're sort of almost working against the educators
there what you're trying to do at home and what
they want kids to do at school. But by and large,
you know, if anything, since social media as all the
kids have ever known, maybe they'll adapt better than we
will as adults whom this is just a new phenomenon
(18:53):
and something we previously never experienced.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Interesting. So it's funny because I also have three kids
ten and eight, and it's my thirteen and ten sort
of get the limitations on social media that we set
to my eight year old. And I've heard this from
other parents at that age group they're really young, like six, seven, eight,
They somehow are like, I mean, he's not in any
social media obviously, he's eight years old. He doesn't have
(19:17):
a phone, he doesn't there anything, but he's like, I
want to be on TikTok, like I want to be
doing dances, and I wonder if it's like again, I've
heard this from other parents that the youngest child is
usually the one who wants it the most because they
see like older kids elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Yeah, that was going to be my observation that our youngest,
who also isn't doesn't have a phone or isn't on
social media, sees their older siblings constantly staring at the
screens and gets a little envious. So I guess that
that's not a new phenomenon in terms of being being
the youngest. I had an older sister, and so I
(19:54):
wanted to do things that she was allowed to do
before me as well. So that that's not necessary.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
We're going to take a quick break and be right
back on the Carol Marcowitch Show. I see the older kids.
I mean, maybe this is just my kids, but my
thirteen year old it's almost like a point of pride
that she's not on it, Like she's on snapchat with
her friends, but that's it. But it's like, I'm cool
because I'm not on any of this, Like, you know.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Yeah, I guess that's the uh, I hope thinking we
wanted the kids to have about.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Tattoos and so much more.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I'm going to stand out by not getting one right.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
I'm like, how about you rebel by also not being
a liberal, you know, just in case we're throwing out rebellious.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
You know ideas.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Here So for my last question and with your best
tip for my listeners on how they can improve their lives.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Oh wow, okay, yeah, I trust you, Jason. Well, uh,
I guess i'd pick up on the on the social
media phenomenon that I was talking about as a problem.
And one of the reasons that's the problem is because, uh,
you know, previous generations tended to to have overlapping sources
(21:07):
of news. You know, I grew up watching three television
channels basically and and and and then we would all
go off and have our debates. But we all watched
the three same three networks, right and then had our
debates about them. Today you don't have that, and and
social media sort of a that's this ability to uh
(21:30):
only only watch what you want to watch and have
your your your prejudices reinforced, and and and so. As
I often tell people, the problem is not that someone
watches M S, n b C or someone watches Fox.
The problem is when you only watch M S n
b C or only watch Fox, and and you really
can't relate to to to to your your your neighbor
(21:55):
who doesn't watch the same things you watch. So I
always encourage people to uh to to to flip flip
the channel right read read read opinions you disagree with
get to know so that you know where other people
are coming from. And and and I think that that
is one way to help us sort of dial it
down a little bit in terms of the volume of
(22:17):
the disagreement. Uh and and perhaps not be talking past
one another to the extent that we that we currently are.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Ambitious, very ambitious to listen, listen to other people's opinions
that you don't agree with, okay, and that might improve
your life. Well, thank you so much, Jason. It's been
really great to have you on. Find him in the
Wall Street Journal. He's fantastic writes. Often check him out.
Thank you, thanks so much for joining us on the
Carol Marcowitch Show. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio.
A friend said to me recently that the way to
protect your child from depression and anxiety to some extent
is to let them have a lot of unsupervised play
and minimal screen time. And I thought to myself, this
is not rocket science, but it's so hard to achieve.
I think a lot of people realize that this is
(00:26):
the path to having, you know, kind of a happier child,
but are unable to do it. And I thought back
to when my own kids were eight, five and two
in Brooklyn, and I noticed that my then eight year
old didn't have peers at the playground. The child population
of the park abruptly cut off at a certain age.
My two year old was saddling up to other two
(00:48):
year old who enjoyed, you know, pushing objects like strollers
and scooters around the perimeter of the park. My five
year old would join a crew of other five year
old boys and getting inexplicably dirty and turning all available
sticks into weapons. But my eight year old would often
find herself with no one her age around and end
up hanging off the monkey bars by herself. Where were
(01:10):
the kids? And of course it turned out they were
all in after school or weekend programs. Some did coding,
some learned another language, some took art or music. My
daughter did all of this too, at least in part
because everyone else did it and it'd be weird not to.
But we still left her with a lot of time
to do nothing much, especially outside, and it got harder
(01:33):
and harder to find kids her age to do the same.
Now my kids are thirteen, ten, and eight, and we
still prioritize them hanging out with friends, limiting their screens,
but it's rare to see that kids just playing outside
on their own. There are a lot of kids on
our block, but very few just run around outside, ride
(01:53):
their bikes or scooters or whatever, and just play outside
with no plan and no structured events. One neighbor told
me that kids used to play outside a lot, but
COVID moved everyone indoors and they just never reverted to form.
You know, this is South Florida. Nothing depresses me more
than hearing that unstructured play helps kids negotiate friendships and
(02:18):
use their imaginations to create a good time for themselves.
The physical activity of play also keeps kids healthy and
fights obesity and the rest of it. But it mostly
makes them not boring and not able to be as
bored as kids who rely on constant structure to have
a good time, you know. Back in twenty eighteen, the
(02:40):
website Matchable posted a video of a UK school program
that was very happy with the results they were having
from having students run around fifteen minutes a day outside
and one of my all time favorites. The University of
Tennessee law professor Glenn Reynolds tweeted at the time, we
shall call it recess. It's not like we don't know
(03:02):
that the accidental exercise of play has a variety of
benefit for kids, So why don't we encourage it more.
There's this worry, and I remember writing about it years ago,
but that any minute not overscheduled will lead to kids
getting up to no good. Mayor of New York builde
Blasio made some comment like, we can't have kids, you know,
(03:25):
not having anything to do. So, in addition to the
concern that kids will get into trouble if they aren't
meticulously scheduled and after school and weekend programming, the other
thing that parents in society, I guess, worries about is
screen time. The idea is that any moment that isn't
builled can devolve into TV or tablet time. And to
(03:46):
fight it, families are limiting free play, like, of course
my kid needs to be in seventeen activities, how could
I keep them off his iPad? Otherwise, what if parents
simply parented their children and said no to too much
TV and tablet time? The choice doesn't have to be
between planned and paid for activities or drooling in front
(04:07):
of the tube or being on the quote unquote streets.
You know. Take your eight, ten, twelve year olds to
the park, let them climb stuff and make new friends
on the fly. Think of it as like an enrichment
class for your kids. Marn Key bars one oh one.
It's just as important as there are other classes, but
free and useful. Coming up next and interview with Jason Riley.
(04:32):
Join us after the break. Hi, and welcome back to
the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. My guest today is
Jason Riley. Jason is a senior fellow at the Manhattan
Institute and columnist for The Wall Street Journal. So nice
to have you on, Jason.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Good to be with you, Carol.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
So in the research I was doing before having you
on the show, I discovered your super prolific and I
I don't feel like I was aware of that. You've
written four books. Which one was your favorite?
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Oh, that's a tough one.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
You hate them all right?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
No? No, The one I probably enjoyed researching the most
was a biography of the economist Thomas soul someone who
had been a real intellectual hero of mine growing up
when I was sort of starting to think about a
lot of the issues I write about today, and his
background is really fascinating, as is his body of work.
(05:34):
So I did very much enjoy diving, doing a deep
dive into his life and his writings, and so that's
probably my favorite.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
I really enjoyed that one. I have to catch up.
I don't think i've read two of them, so I'll
get on that before your next appearance. I've always enjoyed
your column and you're writing in general, but the column
that made me reach out to you to have you
on the show was the one that you just as
the left wing intellectuals who claim to care deeply about
(06:03):
the circumstances of low income minorities are simultaneously reluctant to
tell them the truth about what drives social inequality, and
you were describing Melissa Kearney's new book, The Two Parent Privilege.
I've talked about that book on the show before, but
I particularly particularly liked how you pointed out that her
book is not actually provocative or earth shattering, and plenty
(06:26):
of people have made the marriage is good argument before
using data and numbers, just like her, but that her
argument is aimed at liberals who know that she's right
but won't say so. So how do you challenge that?
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Well, I guess I guess you praise the liberals like
I try to do, who do speak honestly about these topics.
And you know, if they don't want to hear it
coming from me, or coming from Charles Murray or coming
from James Q. Wilson, maybe they'll want to hear it
coming from Melissa Carnie. So that's why I decided to
(07:02):
write about the book. But she's She's absolutely right. We
just have a ton of research showing that children that
come from two parent families tend to do better in life,
and that has been the case for a long long time,
and yet we continue to downplay the significance of the
two parent family and watch it diminish in terms of
(07:27):
its frequency. I think the data she had in there
was that in nineteen sixty just five percent of babies
were born to single moms. In twenty nineteen it was
close to half. I mean, two parent families are the
best way we know any civilization has known to raise
the next generation. I mean the idea that you could
(07:48):
see that sort of deterioration in the institution of that
raises the next generation and expect there to be no consequences.
It's just ridiculous on its face.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Do you think that her book moves the needle? Do
you think liberals do? I mean, the thing is that
they are largely the people who are saying to her,
we agree with you, We just don't think it's appropriate
for you to say, so are living that married too,
parent family life. So how do we make them kind
of admit what they have and what they're pushing other
(08:22):
people not to have.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Well, I think we have to call them out on
it frankly and highlight how ridiculous and how hypocritical their
actions are versus their words like you're right. I mean,
the old phrase for this used to be living the
fifties and talking the sixties. For your viewers that are
(08:44):
too young maybe to get that, it was a reference
to the nineteen fifties, when you much had more conservative
social values in contrasting that with the nineteen sixties, where
you had this countercultural revolution taking place and ro tests
and and and drugs and so forth, and it was
cool to embrace all that, and and many of the
(09:07):
adults who did embrace it nevertheless made sure that they
didn't live that lifestyle themselves. I think you have a
lot of that going on today. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
I think it's you know, live right, talk left is
the is the more you know the version I've heard recently.
So yeah, sorry, no, I was.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Just going to say. And And one of the things
that's fascinating about the importance of the two parent family
is that the outcomes transcend not only race and ethnicity,
but also income levels. In other words, there is a
stronger correlation between someone coming from a single parent home
(09:55):
and winding up in jail than there is someone being
black or hispanic and winding up the gym kids. Who
you know, black boys in general are suspended from school
at higher rates than white boys, but black boys from
two parent families are suspended less often than white boys
(10:16):
from single parent homes. So again, the importance of the
family transcends a lot of these other factors that we
look at as root causes of kids getting into trouble
or getting involved with drugs and so forth down the road.
And that's why I think that the right focus is
on re establishing the importance of the two parent family.
(10:36):
And we know, and we always have to use this caveat,
We know that there are heroic single moms that beat
the odds. Some of us are even related to them.
But nevertheless, I think as a society with a public policy,
our focus should be on steering the next generation in
(10:57):
the right direction so that they don't have to face
the odds to begin with. And and and that's I
think where the debate needs to be had.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Kearney, she actually describes marriage as people see it as
a luxury belief now, and I think that's such a
big challenge to overcome, Like where you know, poor or
middle class people see it as something rich people do,
and that's just wild to me. Why why why would
that be the case.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
I think that you know, partly this has to do
with an inability in society today to speak simple truths
about any number of things. I mean, Carney has these
stories about how when she was working on this book,
some of her colleagues in academia would approach her and say,
(11:44):
are you sure you want to publish your findings? You know,
you might be ostracized in certain social circles that you're
now embraced in. You might be considered a conservative and
a social conservative. And then that's the you know, nothing's
worse than that in the circles that she runs in.
But you know, put put the talk about talking up
(12:07):
marriage aside. You're not allowed to say that, you know,
the kid who swam on the boys team last year
shouldn't be swimming on the girls team this year. Right,
You're not allowed to say that math isn't racist. You're
not allowed to say that punctuality is not white supremacy.
There are so many.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Things it is white supremacy because I'm never on time,
and you know, Jews, Jews are only recently white.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
So so so there are any number of areas where
the adults in the room are no longer behaving like adults.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
And I guess we see that playing out on the
college campuses today once again. But but it's not just
saying honest things about marriage. There are there are so
many things that have become verboten recently that, uh, you know,
a generation of the they look at this, it's completely ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Right, yeah, telling the truth has become revolutionary somehow. Your wife,
Naomi Shaeffer Riley, is also a writer, and you guys
are in a similar right of center political space. Do
you guys have any disagreements on big issues?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Wow, let's get into it, Jason, I won't tell her anything.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
She's uh not, not on not on big issues. I
can't think of any really big issues where we have
a big disagreements.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Now, right, does she change your mind or you? Do
you change her mind? How does it? How does it
normally go? Because I know I changed my husband's mind.
My husband has all the time.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
She's absolutely that's right.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Good answer, good answer. How long have you been a writer?
Speaker 2 (13:58):
I've been writing since college. I started writing for the
Wall Street Journal about six months after graduating from college.
I've been writing for them for almost thirty years now.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
So I started at the school at the college newspaper
was my first job as a journalist, and then I
had an internship or two and worked at the local
paper where I went to school and for about six
months after graduation, and then I joined the Wall Street Journal.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Wow, So any takes that you've had over those thirty
years that you regret? I have a question of Kyle Smith,
and he was definitive.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
No.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
He stands by everything he's ever written.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
I can't think of anything i'd take back. Maybe the
tone would be a little different as you were sure
there should be I guess a little less self righteousness
as you get older. But I think that I pretty
much stand by what I what I think I've written years.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
I'm gonna have to go back and read some snarky
early Jason Riley columns.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Yes, yes, no shortage of those.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Do you feel like you've made it?
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Made it? Oh? Wow? Well, uh, the expectations were not
very high for me. Pretty much I had to stay
out of jail and I would be considered a huge
successful Buh No, I I I I think that, Uh,
you know, I wanted to get married, have a family,
make a career as a journalist, and so far, so good.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
So yeah, I feel like you're on the right track,
like really heading in that direction. Yeah, what would you
say is the biggest societal or a cultural challenge that
America faces and do you think it's solvable?
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Well, I would point to what we were started out
discussing the breakdown of the family because of all the
bad outcomes that that result from that. You know, from crime, uh,
you know, substance abuse, you know teen pregnancy, the cycle
that that occurs. So I think that is something we
(16:20):
need to address. I think we we can. I haven't.
I haven't given up on it. We have certainly have
examples out there that it still does work. If you
look at the highest performing groups in the US right now,
you're talking about Asian Americans. Guess who has the highest
marriage rates in the lowest out of woodlock Worth rates, Nasians.
(16:42):
So it still works and there's no examples around, and
not just Asians in America. If you look at South
Korea you will see the same thing. If you look
at Japan you will see the same thing. That this
is something that is not limited to to to the
US by by any stretch. So so I I I
think that is a big, big problem. I also, aside
(17:04):
from that, look at the political divisions in the country
and particularly the role that I think social media has
been playing in those divisions, and it seems to me
like that's something social media that is that we still
haven't gotten our heads around as this new phenomenon and
how to deal with it, and so I think that
(17:25):
is a challenge going forward. But I do think it's
something that we eventually will get the hang of. But unfortunately,
you know, I think things might might get worse before
they get better on that front.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Do you let your kids have social media? Are you
guys pretty strict about it?
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Speaking of disagreements with my wife?
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Oh, there you go, So there is some you.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Know, it's it's hard as your children get older. I
have two teenagers and one preteen. And I'm sorry, how
old are they? I have a sixteen year old or
fourteen year old and eleven year old, and the sixteen
year old and the fourteen year old, it's very hard
(18:06):
for them not to be on screens and even on
social media, even in terms of what the school is
expecting of them in terms of doing their school work.
And I do take some issue with that. We were
very strict with screen time before they were teenagers, and
that just became more and more untenable as they got older,
(18:30):
and so you're sort of almost working against the educators
there what you're trying to do at home and what
they want kids to do at school. But by and large,
you know, if anything, since social media as all the
kids have ever known, maybe they'll adapt better than we
will as adults whom this is just a new phenomenon
(18:53):
and something we previously never experienced.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Interesting. So it's funny because I also have three kids
ten and eight, and it's my thirteen and ten sort
of get the limitations on social media that we set
to my eight year old. And I've heard this from
other parents at that age group they're really young, like six, seven, eight,
They somehow are like, I mean, he's not in any
social media obviously, he's eight years old. He doesn't have
(19:17):
a phone, he doesn't there anything, but he's like, I
want to be on TikTok, like I want to be
doing dances, and I wonder if it's like again, I've
heard this from other parents that the youngest child is
usually the one who wants it the most because they
see like older kids elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Yeah, that was going to be my observation that our youngest,
who also isn't doesn't have a phone or isn't on
social media, sees their older siblings constantly staring at the
screens and gets a little envious. So I guess that
that's not a new phenomenon in terms of being being
the youngest. I had an older sister, and so I
(19:54):
wanted to do things that she was allowed to do
before me as well. So that that's not necessary.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
We're going to take a quick break and be right
back on the Carol Marcowitch Show. I see the older kids.
I mean, maybe this is just my kids, but my
thirteen year old it's almost like a point of pride
that she's not on it, Like she's on snapchat with
her friends, but that's it. But it's like, I'm cool
because I'm not on any of this, Like, you know.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Yeah, I guess that's the uh, I hope thinking we
wanted the kids to have about.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Tattoos and so much more.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I'm going to stand out by not getting one right.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
I'm like, how about you rebel by also not being
a liberal, you know, just in case we're throwing out rebellious.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
You know ideas.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Here So for my last question and with your best
tip for my listeners on how they can improve their lives.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Oh wow, okay, yeah, I trust you, Jason. Well, uh,
I guess i'd pick up on the on the social
media phenomenon that I was talking about as a problem.
And one of the reasons that's the problem is because, uh,
you know, previous generations tended to to have overlapping sources
(21:07):
of news. You know, I grew up watching three television
channels basically and and and and then we would all
go off and have our debates. But we all watched
the three same three networks, right and then had our
debates about them. Today you don't have that, and and
social media sort of a that's this ability to uh
(21:30):
only only watch what you want to watch and have
your your your prejudices reinforced, and and and so. As
I often tell people, the problem is not that someone
watches M S, n b C or someone watches Fox.
The problem is when you only watch M S n
b C or only watch Fox, and and you really
can't relate to to to to your your your neighbor
(21:55):
who doesn't watch the same things you watch. So I
always encourage people to uh to to to flip flip
the channel right read read read opinions you disagree with
get to know so that you know where other people
are coming from. And and and I think that that
is one way to help us sort of dial it
down a little bit in terms of the volume of
(22:17):
the disagreement. Uh and and perhaps not be talking past
one another to the extent that we that we currently are.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Ambitious, very ambitious to listen, listen to other people's opinions
that you don't agree with, okay, and that might improve
your life. Well, thank you so much, Jason. It's been
really great to have you on. Find him in the
Wall Street Journal. He's fantastic writes. Often check him out.
Thank you, thanks so much for joining us on the
Carol Marcowitch Show. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
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