March 28, 2024 • 22 mins
In this episode, Karol interviews Frank J. Fleming, a scripted creator for Daily Wire and the Bent Key Kids shows. They discuss how Frank met his wife on the early internet and how that led to their marriage. They also talk about Frank's transition to full-time writing and his experiences in the media industry. The conversation then delves into the topics of gratitude, spirituality, and the societal problem of self-centeredness. The Karol Markowicz Show is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Monday & Thursday.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio.
I'm at the tail end of a ten day fellowship
at Hillsdale College in Hillsdale, Michigan. If you don't know
about Hillsdale, it's a small Christian college, very highly regarded.
It's famous in the conservative world. But until you're here,
I don't think it's exactly clear why. I taught a
(00:28):
persuasive writing class to journalism students, and they were just
so bright and wise. Everyone dresses up for school, no pajamas.
I don't even think I saw genes now that I
think about it. They look you in the eye when
they talk to you, and I've realized that I need
to work on my handshake. But what was really impressive
(00:48):
is that so many of them have the complete picture
in their heads of how they want their lives to go.
I mean, look, I'm not naive. Not everything works out
the way you imagine it will in college. But I
have to say that their imagination far exceeds where my
imagination was in college. I was one step at a time,
(01:09):
just thinking about my first job out of college. You know,
I'll see where it goes, see where life takes me.
And I don't see that in them at all. I
see them as very focused on the future. One girl
asked me for career advice. She was choosing between two
job offers. I asked her, where do you see yourself
in fifteen years, you know, dream big anything eight pm
(01:31):
slot on cable news, whatever a journalism student might possibly
want the biggest dream. And she said, in fifteen years,
I want to be with my family. She's going place
as this girl obviously, very obviously, but in the long
term she's picturing being with her kids. Now that doesn't
mean she's going to give up working if she doesn't
want to, but she's already maneuvering her life to achieve
(01:54):
that end result. I mean, I was very impressed. I
talked to my kids a lot about how I want
them to get married and have children really above all,
I mean, certainly above career, and I think it's the
most important part of a successful life. But now I'm
realizing it has to be more than just telling them.
It's showing them how to plan for that, and I
(02:17):
definitely plan to implement that in my own life. I'm
leaving Hillsdale thinking about how college kids don't have to
be dour and full of anxiety. I saw such joyful
kids here, and they're super normal. Before anyone thinks otherwise.
They do all the same things college kids do, you know, mostly,
(02:38):
but they're interesting and interested, and there's really no reason
that college kids elsewhere can't be the same. We're big
on say the words here on the Carol Marcowitz Show.
Don't assume kids will just know. Tell them. The Hillsdale
kids have obviously heard the words, and you can tell
it's made all the difference. Coming up next, an interview
(02:59):
with Frank Fleming. Join us after the break. Welcome back
to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. My guest today
is Frank Fleming. He's a scripted creator for Daily Wire
and the bent Key Kids shows.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Hi Frank, Hi, thanks so much for having me on.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
It's so nice to have you. I feel like I've
known you a really long time on the Internet, and
this is the first time I think we've ever seen
each other face.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Oh yeah, my wife says, Hi, By the way.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
I love your life. So actually that's a great place
to start. I think you and your wife met on
the early Internet, Is that right?
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yeah, I was back when I was doing my blog, Imo.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Can you tell us the story.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yeah, that one's quite a story. I like that. It
was one of those hair brained schemes that actually worked out.
At the time, it was making some money selling T
shirts through website. Thought oh, nice had like a model
like on the shirts, and so I had a contest
for someone my readers to be the T shirt model,
(04:08):
hoping maybe I had an attractive person who liked all
of the show. And then uh, I went with a
bunch of other judges and they have people sending photos
and someone was the obvious winner to me. Uh, but
she actually only won by one point, and that's uh.
We ended up marrying a while. We end up dating
soon after our first date. Actually invited me to go
(04:30):
just that easy, you know, invited me to go hike
the Grand Canyon with her, and then we, uh we
got dating and eventually married and now have four kids.
So that's yeah, that's one of those.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Like, you know, having contest on your blog and marry
the winner. It's yeah, you know, it's funny because there's
this like meme that single people have. It's like, do
married people feel like they caught the last chopper out
of nom Have you seen that.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Yeah, yeah, it does seem pretty crazy these days. But
I guess I didn't do a lot of regular type dating,
but that story.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Seems very last chopper out of nom Like, I don't know,
I don't know that that's like possible anymore, do you.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Yeah? Yeah, it was different, different world, different time with
the way blogs where those feel like kind of faded
now and you got the uh, you know, substacks and
Twitter or.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
X well, I think all the blogs, you know, I
feel like all the really good bloggers got kind of
co opted into the mainstream media that we so you know,
pretended to hate. But everybody kind of got hired, right,
Isn't that that was sort of the end of it,
that the big media outlets picked up all the bloggers
(05:46):
that they liked, and that was that.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, it was a very you know, uh democratization of media.
I mean a lot, you know. I'm so and I
never would have tried to get in the media normally,
but we I was like, oh, okay, I can just
write online and maybe pick up an audience, you know.
I'm I'm also I think a example, you know, why
a lot of conservatives don't get into the media because,
(06:11):
you know, I was going to do a responsible job
work as a computer programmer. It's just oh. But since
I was able to do this on the side, I
was able to eventually, you know, build up my writing
skills and resume. Before then, it was a lot harder.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Yeah, what would you be doing if you weren't doing this?
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Well, I mean, I'd be a computer programmer. But I
mean that was my full job just a few years ago. Still,
I mainly wrote on the side. This is well, it's
not quite the first time working as a full time writer.
I'd worked with a production company called Emergent Order. That's
what moved me to Texas. I actually did a lot
of tech with them. I did some VR video and
(06:46):
apps and stuff along with writing like web series things
for them that when that didn't work out eventually I
was with them two years. I was kind of happy
just get back in a regular tech job. And then
uh and and I was kind of happy to do
that right on the side because then I don't have
to worry about if my writing's that good or if
(07:08):
get an audience. If it gets an audience, great, if not,
I'm not depending on it for like, you know, to
feed my family or anything. Right, and but eventually end
up with this opportunity with the Daily Wire to work
on television shows with friends of mine, and so it's like, well,
I couldn't really pass that, right, Yeah, so they hold
(07:30):
me back in.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
When I asked people the question like what would you
be doing if it wasn't this, it's always like these
like crazy answers, you know, like I'd be a baker.
I like to say that I'd be a DJ. I
really enjoy you know, playing music for people. But you're like, no,
I'd go back to being a computer programmer.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
It was so crazy because I thought I achieved my balance,
especially after I left the Babylon BEMS. Was like, Okay,
I'll do a paid sub stack. I'll write just what
I like or how big an audience it gets. It's
like I'll find writing on the side. I'll write some novels.
People read them. If they don't, doesn't matter, because I
really liked Actually my job. I had a programming a
(08:12):
great boss, owner of it, and you really appreciate me.
I appreciate him, and and it's just like, okay, make
money from that, do writing on the side, and you know,
support your family, feel happy and so It's kind of
crazy to me to leave a job I really like,
but it's just, yeah, this was such a unique opportunity
(08:33):
to to start. You know, I've never I never imagined
I always would want to written, to write for TV shows.
I just never imagine an opportunity because again, I'm not
someone who's gonna was gonna fly down to Hollywood go
all in there, especially now you know, family for kids,
it's just you have to be a little bit more,
you know, look before you leave.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
So what is Benkey doing That's different In the children's
like TV show space, They're.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Just trying to be uh something you can trust. You know,
you don't have to pre screen all these things and
make sure what kind of stuff they're putting in there.
I think that's that's really just you know, they what
we would normally call agenda free. Uh so imagine that.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Why Yeah, as a parent, I appreciate that because I
feel like all the new stuff out there, I got
to look into it and see if there's what sort
of things are putting into there. And the idea with
ben Key is, you know, you don't have to worry
about that.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Do you feel like you've made it?
Speaker 2 (09:31):
That's an interesting question because it's like, uh, I thought
I made it when I finally you know, reached my
uh piece with what it was like, oh, I'll be
a computer program during the day, I'll write if it's okay,
because that's where it's like I've been through a long
journey where it's like, oh, I really want to be
a novelist or really want to be a columnist. And uh,
(09:52):
I kind of learned some lessons there because for a
while I was like writing for the New York Post
and I felt like, oh, that's made it. But I
realized as soon as I got there, I was like, well,
what do I do next? Right? Oh, this is there
is no end to this, And so I thought I
achieved my piece. But now I'm off, you know, you know,
in my in my forties, in a completely different field
(10:13):
than I thought i'd be in. So I kind of
have to relearn and seeing where this is going. So
it kind of feels weird to say like I made it.
Now I'm it's a little too exciting for that. I
don't know where things are going.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
We're going to take a quick break and be right
back on the Carol Marcowitch Show. So I've known you,
like we talked about, you know, from the early blog days,
but I reached out to you to come on the
show when you tweeted something. I'm going to read your
tweet that I thought was really interesting and I wanted
to talk to you about it. So you tweeted about
(10:49):
capitalism first, and you wrote, capitalism is not the problem.
You're just one hundred times whinier than your ancestors, despite
being one hundred times more privileged. And that's also not
capitalism's it's your spiritual paucity that leaves you in a
state where you can be handed riches the kings of
old couldn't dream of, but still be miserable. But then
your follow up tweet is really why I contacted you,
(11:11):
and it was many things change, but if you're looking
to fill the emptiness inside you, the answer hasn't changed
in thousands of years.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
So what is it?
Speaker 1 (11:20):
What's the answer to be?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
It's you know, well, you know, I'm a Christian, I
have a I feel like that that's where centers all
my life. And it's just like it feels like a
lot of you know, what the world is these days
is trying to figure out, trying to replace what we
used to have spiritually with something else. And I look
(11:45):
at a lot of like, you know, the values and
things we have these days, which usually they started as
religious values, and then they just try to say, oh,
now they're universal values. You don't have to have any
basis for we just believe them. But I feel like
that that's just not fulfilling enough for people, and that
leads them in odd directions. And that's where it's like,
you know, they make these religious battles to you know,
(12:07):
you know, capitalism's the devil for some people, and you
know they try to fill these voids with other things.
But it's just, you know, while the world's changed a
lot in thousands of years, if you're looking to be fulfilled,
I don't feel like, you know, that's changed. You have
to focus on the spiritual. You have to focus on
(12:30):
what you have. It's like, you know, yeah, it's talk
about like the capitalism and sort of the ingratitude people have.
It's like, we have all these things people of course
thousand years can imagine you know, a little box in
your pocket you can pull up any information in the
world from and it's just I mean, it's just well,
I mean that would amaze me, you know, when I
was a kid, you know, and it's but you know,
(12:53):
this does not give us fulfillment. And if you want fulfillment,
you have to learn to be happy with what you
have and be amazed and gratitude, you know, have the
gratitude for what you already have and not be constantly
looking for like you know, what you don't or what
else you think you need or you're just gonna end
up like a little hamster and a wheel, uh, just
(13:16):
kind of thinking you're moving towards something, but you're never
going to get there because you know, I feel like
what everybody really is trying to get to is the
same thing. And that's the you know, the spiritual fulfillment
you know me, it's you know, it's being what God
intended you be. You know, you have a real person
you're trying to be and it's you know, you got
(13:38):
to look up or inward and spiritually to find.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
That has having kids changed you in in that way
or in any way.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
I feel that that's that's a major change to everybody,
you know. I know we're we're in a world now
where people seem to put less value on kids. I
know there's a lot of like shrinking population. It's it's
kind of crazy to me because like when we had
our first kid, it's like, oh, this is so amazing.
It's like, wonder what we'll get with the next one.
It's and you know, we've had, you know, four kids,
and our amazing journey are our fourth one he has
(14:12):
down syndrome, which was, you know, a new thing to
deal with. But it's just you know, it's uh, you know,
they're just such uh you know, joy and fulfillment, you know,
to all all these all your kids, and it's and
it but the big change is what I feel is
a big problem with the society is we're very self centered.
We're about self fulfillment and things and like kind of
(14:34):
mentioning that. But I figured the irony of self fulfillment
is you can't be looking on your own needs. You
have to learn how to look out for If you're
always just trying to get focused on your own wants,
I feel like that's the easiest past to misery. If
you try to focus on someone else's wants or needs
that can really help you. And of course children, you
(14:54):
have to learn to not put yourself at uh you know,
you know, at the top you have do you have
other people? You know, it's that's who you're looking to
help out and not just yourself. And I think that's
that's probably the biggest change of becoming a parent. I
mean it starts when you get married, but when you
have kids, I mean, that's that's a bigger change. It's
(15:15):
I always liked, uh. I think it's name Jonathan Colton.
He's like a musician had this song called You Ruined Everything,
which is about his daughter being born. It's about how
she destroyed his life. I never heard that. Yeah, uh,
that's better. But it's like and it's like he can.
I like how he compared becoming apparent to like becoming
(15:35):
a vampire, where you're just your old self's destroyed and
you're something different and stronger now, And I think that's
what you have to be.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
It's quite a comparison. So what would you say, is
our largest like cultural or societal problem or have you
already got gotten into that? Is it that self centered? Is?
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Yeah? I think that that's quite a heavy question and
I think I'll stick to the theme. But I also like
to think about it. It's the gratitude because we have
so much in society we didn't have before. But people
still want to feel like this is the worst of
times and they're the biggest victims, and no one wants
to like, you know, it's funny all to talk about privilege,
but no one really wants to recognize, like everybody in
(16:20):
society now is just hugely privileged to like everybody else
who's existed. Yeah, he's one of my favorite Babylon b
articles I wrote was one called average person wines more
today in one week than a person born during the
Black Plague did their entire lives. But it's just like
we don't have perspective we have. We're constantly just finding
(16:45):
the faults of things and it's just you know that again,
it's just like if you're looking for happiness, you have
to you have to recognize what you have and have
gratitude for all the things you have. And that's you know,
that's that's a fight each day. You know, it's like
a you know, It's one thing I've come to realize
is I'm you know, talk about have you made it?
(17:05):
I think I'm in a special period of my life
which you know, uh, you know, I have my family,
I have my four kids, we all go do stuff together. Eventually,
you know, someone get old and move away, and then
you know, this is I you know, it's possibly the
best period of my life right now. And it's just
you know, you have to you know, recognize that each
(17:26):
day and try to embrace that.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Yeah, it's it's hard to appreciate when you're in it.
But you know, when I'm away from my kids, I
immediately like want to get back to them. And when
I'm with them, obviously they you know, they could be
difficult or whatever. But it's when you're in these happy times,
like to know that you're in those happy times and
to hold on to it is tougher than it sounds.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, I guess what helped is I had you know,
when those things, it gives you some perspective that I
had a health scare recently where you know, it's really
found out I had some two and uh, you know
it was really it didn't know exactly how bad it
was the beginning, and really had to think about, you know,
what if, what if I'm going to die in like
the next year, and and and you know, uh, kind
(18:12):
of the hardest thing about that is like, you know,
I feel like, you know, spiritually, you know, I'd be
ready for such a thing, but it's just what you
leave behind. Because I had you have four kids, I
think three of them at least would have left them something,
you know, in memory. You know, you know how I was,
But my youngest with down syndrome was like, I don't
think he'd remember anything, and the only thing I could
(18:34):
do for him was to stick around. And so uh,
you know, just just knowing, uh now that you know,
it's like, I think we're through the woods on that
doesn't look like have any you know, major health problems
anytime soon. So it's really uh come to appreciate just
you know, uh, just life and knowing you got you know,
uh be able to look ahead and not you know,
(18:55):
I'm glad to hear that, being so uncertain whether you
actually be around.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
I mean, I think all of your kids are adorable.
But whenever I see your youngest, like, I smile. He
is just this full of joy kid. I like, he's
really beautiful and just I don't know, he always lights
up my day when I come across his picture.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
He's very much a little bundle of joy. I mean,
he you know, he can't sugar hood. He's difficult. He's
you know, and five, he's still like a toddler and
he's in very destructive mode now where it's just like
you don't pay attention to him for a minute, he'll
get any into anything. But it's uh, you know, the
love there and just the beauty of him is just
(19:41):
you know, it's hard to describe to other people, and
it's just in you know, his siblings just adore him.
It's like we don't have favorite kids, but kids they
have a favorite sibling and they just uh it's you know,
and that helps a lot because you know, and he
needs gonna need extra help, and it was nice to
know he has uh his brother and sisters there.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Yeah, that's really beautiful. So end here with your best
tip for my listeners on how they can improve their lives.
I know we talked a lot about you know, the
different things that people you know, how they can be
more grateful. But do you have like an overarching tip
for people to make their lives better today?
Speaker 2 (20:23):
I think, uh, just one thing I started to do
recently is just a beginning of my work day, I
say a prayer and just to try to center on
you know, what's important and things because you always get
because when you sit down and pray, I feel like,
realize what things I'd ask for that aren't really important
versus you know, what's really uh, you know, the important things.
(20:45):
And I always liked to That's what seven habits highly
successful people had a There's a few good things in there,
and one was like always start with the end in mind.
And that's when it's like, you know, I really want
to be a novelist. I really want to be successful
a writer. Like you know, think at the end, like
what do you want people to say at your funeral?
And I wouldn't care, you know, feel said, oh, he's
(21:05):
really good writer and stuff. But like you know, my
kids just say, you know, it's a good father. And
you know my wife just say, you know what, someone
strong supportive for her and uh. And I think it's
you know, it's good every day to uh reflect on
the blessings you have and uh and then you know,
and what you're really uh, what you're really aiming for.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
That was really good. You know. I think of you,
I mean obviously as a very funny guy and you're
on Twitter and you're a comedy writer and you just
uh and this has been a really funny, you know,
not funny, but very deep, non funny conversation where I
feel like we got into some real, you know, deep things.
It's it's just interesting to see somebody's personality off of Twitter, and.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
It hasn't really been a great sales pitch for Like, Hey,
this is a funny guy.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
He's really funny. You should follow Frank Flemming on Twitter.
He's hilarious and his writing is really funny. But you know, look,
I gotta be serious sometimes too, and we covered a
lot of serious ground here. So thanks so much for
coming on. Frank, love talking to you.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Hey, thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Thank you so much for joining us on The Carol
Markowitz Show. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio.
I'm at the tail end of a ten day fellowship
at Hillsdale College in Hillsdale, Michigan. If you don't know
about Hillsdale, it's a small Christian college, very highly regarded.
It's famous in the conservative world. But until you're here,
I don't think it's exactly clear why. I taught a
(00:28):
persuasive writing class to journalism students, and they were just
so bright and wise. Everyone dresses up for school, no pajamas.
I don't even think I saw genes now that I
think about it. They look you in the eye when
they talk to you, and I've realized that I need
to work on my handshake. But what was really impressive
(00:48):
is that so many of them have the complete picture
in their heads of how they want their lives to go.
I mean, look, I'm not naive. Not everything works out
the way you imagine it will in college. But I
have to say that their imagination far exceeds where my
imagination was in college. I was one step at a time,
(01:09):
just thinking about my first job out of college. You know,
I'll see where it goes, see where life takes me.
And I don't see that in them at all. I
see them as very focused on the future. One girl
asked me for career advice. She was choosing between two
job offers. I asked her, where do you see yourself
in fifteen years, you know, dream big anything eight pm
(01:31):
slot on cable news, whatever a journalism student might possibly
want the biggest dream. And she said, in fifteen years,
I want to be with my family. She's going place
as this girl obviously, very obviously, but in the long
term she's picturing being with her kids. Now that doesn't
mean she's going to give up working if she doesn't
want to, but she's already maneuvering her life to achieve
(01:54):
that end result. I mean, I was very impressed. I
talked to my kids a lot about how I want
them to get married and have children really above all,
I mean, certainly above career, and I think it's the
most important part of a successful life. But now I'm
realizing it has to be more than just telling them.
It's showing them how to plan for that, and I
(02:17):
definitely plan to implement that in my own life. I'm
leaving Hillsdale thinking about how college kids don't have to
be dour and full of anxiety. I saw such joyful
kids here, and they're super normal. Before anyone thinks otherwise.
They do all the same things college kids do, you know, mostly,
(02:38):
but they're interesting and interested, and there's really no reason
that college kids elsewhere can't be the same. We're big
on say the words here on the Carol Marcowitz Show.
Don't assume kids will just know. Tell them. The Hillsdale
kids have obviously heard the words, and you can tell
it's made all the difference. Coming up next, an interview
(02:59):
with Frank Fleming. Join us after the break. Welcome back
to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. My guest today
is Frank Fleming. He's a scripted creator for Daily Wire
and the bent Key Kids shows.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Hi Frank, Hi, thanks so much for having me on.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
It's so nice to have you. I feel like I've
known you a really long time on the Internet, and
this is the first time I think we've ever seen
each other face.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Oh yeah, my wife says, Hi, By the way.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
I love your life. So actually that's a great place
to start. I think you and your wife met on
the early Internet, Is that right?
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yeah, I was back when I was doing my blog, Imo.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Can you tell us the story.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yeah, that one's quite a story. I like that. It
was one of those hair brained schemes that actually worked out.
At the time, it was making some money selling T
shirts through website. Thought oh, nice had like a model
like on the shirts, and so I had a contest
for someone my readers to be the T shirt model,
(04:08):
hoping maybe I had an attractive person who liked all
of the show. And then uh, I went with a
bunch of other judges and they have people sending photos
and someone was the obvious winner to me. Uh, but
she actually only won by one point, and that's uh.
We ended up marrying a while. We end up dating
soon after our first date. Actually invited me to go
(04:30):
just that easy, you know, invited me to go hike
the Grand Canyon with her, and then we, uh we
got dating and eventually married and now have four kids.
So that's yeah, that's one of those.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Like, you know, having contest on your blog and marry
the winner. It's yeah, you know, it's funny because there's
this like meme that single people have. It's like, do
married people feel like they caught the last chopper out
of nom Have you seen that.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Yeah, yeah, it does seem pretty crazy these days. But
I guess I didn't do a lot of regular type dating,
but that story.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Seems very last chopper out of nom Like, I don't know,
I don't know that that's like possible anymore, do you.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Yeah? Yeah, it was different, different world, different time with
the way blogs where those feel like kind of faded
now and you got the uh, you know, substacks and
Twitter or.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
X well, I think all the blogs, you know, I
feel like all the really good bloggers got kind of
co opted into the mainstream media that we so you know,
pretended to hate. But everybody kind of got hired, right,
Isn't that that was sort of the end of it,
that the big media outlets picked up all the bloggers
(05:46):
that they liked, and that was that.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, it was a very you know, uh democratization of media.
I mean a lot, you know. I'm so and I
never would have tried to get in the media normally,
but we I was like, oh, okay, I can just
write online and maybe pick up an audience, you know.
I'm I'm also I think a example, you know, why
a lot of conservatives don't get into the media because,
(06:11):
you know, I was going to do a responsible job
work as a computer programmer. It's just oh. But since
I was able to do this on the side, I
was able to eventually, you know, build up my writing
skills and resume. Before then, it was a lot harder.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Yeah, what would you be doing if you weren't doing this?
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Well, I mean, I'd be a computer programmer. But I
mean that was my full job just a few years ago. Still,
I mainly wrote on the side. This is well, it's
not quite the first time working as a full time writer.
I'd worked with a production company called Emergent Order. That's
what moved me to Texas. I actually did a lot
of tech with them. I did some VR video and
(06:46):
apps and stuff along with writing like web series things
for them that when that didn't work out eventually I
was with them two years. I was kind of happy
just get back in a regular tech job. And then
uh and and I was kind of happy to do
that right on the side because then I don't have
to worry about if my writing's that good or if
(07:08):
get an audience. If it gets an audience, great, if not,
I'm not depending on it for like, you know, to
feed my family or anything. Right, and but eventually end
up with this opportunity with the Daily Wire to work
on television shows with friends of mine, and so it's like, well,
I couldn't really pass that, right, Yeah, so they hold
(07:30):
me back in.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
When I asked people the question like what would you
be doing if it wasn't this, it's always like these
like crazy answers, you know, like I'd be a baker.
I like to say that I'd be a DJ. I
really enjoy you know, playing music for people. But you're like, no,
I'd go back to being a computer programmer.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
It was so crazy because I thought I achieved my balance,
especially after I left the Babylon BEMS. Was like, Okay,
I'll do a paid sub stack. I'll write just what
I like or how big an audience it gets. It's
like I'll find writing on the side. I'll write some novels.
People read them. If they don't, doesn't matter, because I
really liked Actually my job. I had a programming a
(08:12):
great boss, owner of it, and you really appreciate me.
I appreciate him, and and it's just like, okay, make
money from that, do writing on the side, and you know,
support your family, feel happy and so It's kind of
crazy to me to leave a job I really like,
but it's just, yeah, this was such a unique opportunity
(08:33):
to to start. You know, I've never I never imagined
I always would want to written, to write for TV shows.
I just never imagine an opportunity because again, I'm not
someone who's gonna was gonna fly down to Hollywood go
all in there, especially now you know, family for kids,
it's just you have to be a little bit more,
you know, look before you leave.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
So what is Benkey doing That's different In the children's
like TV show space, They're.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Just trying to be uh something you can trust. You know,
you don't have to pre screen all these things and
make sure what kind of stuff they're putting in there.
I think that's that's really just you know, they what
we would normally call agenda free. Uh so imagine that.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Why Yeah, as a parent, I appreciate that because I
feel like all the new stuff out there, I got
to look into it and see if there's what sort
of things are putting into there. And the idea with
ben Key is, you know, you don't have to worry
about that.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Do you feel like you've made it?
Speaker 2 (09:31):
That's an interesting question because it's like, uh, I thought
I made it when I finally you know, reached my
uh piece with what it was like, oh, I'll be
a computer program during the day, I'll write if it's okay,
because that's where it's like I've been through a long
journey where it's like, oh, I really want to be
a novelist or really want to be a columnist. And uh,
(09:52):
I kind of learned some lessons there because for a
while I was like writing for the New York Post
and I felt like, oh, that's made it. But I
realized as soon as I got there, I was like, well,
what do I do next? Right? Oh, this is there
is no end to this, And so I thought I
achieved my piece. But now I'm off, you know, you know,
in my in my forties, in a completely different field
(10:13):
than I thought i'd be in. So I kind of
have to relearn and seeing where this is going. So
it kind of feels weird to say like I made it.
Now I'm it's a little too exciting for that. I
don't know where things are going.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
We're going to take a quick break and be right
back on the Carol Marcowitch Show. So I've known you,
like we talked about, you know, from the early blog days,
but I reached out to you to come on the
show when you tweeted something. I'm going to read your
tweet that I thought was really interesting and I wanted
to talk to you about it. So you tweeted about
(10:49):
capitalism first, and you wrote, capitalism is not the problem.
You're just one hundred times whinier than your ancestors, despite
being one hundred times more privileged. And that's also not
capitalism's it's your spiritual paucity that leaves you in a
state where you can be handed riches the kings of
old couldn't dream of, but still be miserable. But then
your follow up tweet is really why I contacted you,
(11:11):
and it was many things change, but if you're looking
to fill the emptiness inside you, the answer hasn't changed
in thousands of years.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
So what is it?
Speaker 1 (11:20):
What's the answer to be?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
It's you know, well, you know, I'm a Christian, I
have a I feel like that that's where centers all
my life. And it's just like it feels like a
lot of you know, what the world is these days
is trying to figure out, trying to replace what we
used to have spiritually with something else. And I look
(11:45):
at a lot of like, you know, the values and
things we have these days, which usually they started as
religious values, and then they just try to say, oh,
now they're universal values. You don't have to have any
basis for we just believe them. But I feel like
that that's just not fulfilling enough for people, and that
leads them in odd directions. And that's where it's like,
you know, they make these religious battles to you know,
(12:07):
you know, capitalism's the devil for some people, and you
know they try to fill these voids with other things.
But it's just, you know, while the world's changed a
lot in thousands of years, if you're looking to be fulfilled,
I don't feel like, you know, that's changed. You have
to focus on the spiritual. You have to focus on
(12:30):
what you have. It's like, you know, yeah, it's talk
about like the capitalism and sort of the ingratitude people have.
It's like, we have all these things people of course
thousand years can imagine you know, a little box in
your pocket you can pull up any information in the
world from and it's just I mean, it's just well,
I mean that would amaze me, you know, when I
was a kid, you know, and it's but you know,
(12:53):
this does not give us fulfillment. And if you want fulfillment,
you have to learn to be happy with what you
have and be amazed and gratitude, you know, have the
gratitude for what you already have and not be constantly
looking for like you know, what you don't or what
else you think you need or you're just gonna end
up like a little hamster and a wheel, uh, just
(13:16):
kind of thinking you're moving towards something, but you're never
going to get there because you know, I feel like
what everybody really is trying to get to is the
same thing. And that's the you know, the spiritual fulfillment
you know me, it's you know, it's being what God
intended you be. You know, you have a real person
you're trying to be and it's you know, you got
(13:38):
to look up or inward and spiritually to find.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
That has having kids changed you in in that way
or in any way.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
I feel that that's that's a major change to everybody,
you know. I know we're we're in a world now
where people seem to put less value on kids. I
know there's a lot of like shrinking population. It's it's
kind of crazy to me because like when we had
our first kid, it's like, oh, this is so amazing.
It's like, wonder what we'll get with the next one.
It's and you know, we've had, you know, four kids,
and our amazing journey are our fourth one he has
(14:12):
down syndrome, which was, you know, a new thing to
deal with. But it's just you know, it's uh, you know,
they're just such uh you know, joy and fulfillment, you know,
to all all these all your kids, and it's and
it but the big change is what I feel is
a big problem with the society is we're very self centered.
We're about self fulfillment and things and like kind of
(14:34):
mentioning that. But I figured the irony of self fulfillment
is you can't be looking on your own needs. You
have to learn how to look out for If you're
always just trying to get focused on your own wants,
I feel like that's the easiest past to misery. If
you try to focus on someone else's wants or needs
that can really help you. And of course children, you
(14:54):
have to learn to not put yourself at uh you know,
you know, at the top you have do you have
other people? You know, it's that's who you're looking to
help out and not just yourself. And I think that's
that's probably the biggest change of becoming a parent. I
mean it starts when you get married, but when you
have kids, I mean, that's that's a bigger change. It's
(15:15):
I always liked, uh. I think it's name Jonathan Colton.
He's like a musician had this song called You Ruined Everything,
which is about his daughter being born. It's about how
she destroyed his life. I never heard that. Yeah, uh,
that's better. But it's like and it's like he can.
I like how he compared becoming apparent to like becoming
(15:35):
a vampire, where you're just your old self's destroyed and
you're something different and stronger now, And I think that's
what you have to be.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
It's quite a comparison. So what would you say, is
our largest like cultural or societal problem or have you
already got gotten into that? Is it that self centered? Is?
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Yeah? I think that that's quite a heavy question and
I think I'll stick to the theme. But I also like
to think about it. It's the gratitude because we have
so much in society we didn't have before. But people
still want to feel like this is the worst of
times and they're the biggest victims, and no one wants
to like, you know, it's funny all to talk about privilege,
but no one really wants to recognize, like everybody in
(16:20):
society now is just hugely privileged to like everybody else
who's existed. Yeah, he's one of my favorite Babylon b
articles I wrote was one called average person wines more
today in one week than a person born during the
Black Plague did their entire lives. But it's just like
we don't have perspective we have. We're constantly just finding
(16:45):
the faults of things and it's just you know that again,
it's just like if you're looking for happiness, you have
to you have to recognize what you have and have
gratitude for all the things you have. And that's you know,
that's that's a fight each day. You know, it's like
a you know, It's one thing I've come to realize
is I'm you know, talk about have you made it?
(17:05):
I think I'm in a special period of my life
which you know, uh, you know, I have my family,
I have my four kids, we all go do stuff together. Eventually,
you know, someone get old and move away, and then
you know, this is I you know, it's possibly the
best period of my life right now. And it's just
you know, you have to you know, recognize that each
(17:26):
day and try to embrace that.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Yeah, it's it's hard to appreciate when you're in it.
But you know, when I'm away from my kids, I
immediately like want to get back to them. And when
I'm with them, obviously they you know, they could be
difficult or whatever. But it's when you're in these happy times,
like to know that you're in those happy times and
to hold on to it is tougher than it sounds.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, I guess what helped is I had you know,
when those things, it gives you some perspective that I
had a health scare recently where you know, it's really
found out I had some two and uh, you know
it was really it didn't know exactly how bad it
was the beginning, and really had to think about, you know,
what if, what if I'm going to die in like
the next year, and and and you know, uh, kind
(18:12):
of the hardest thing about that is like, you know,
I feel like, you know, spiritually, you know, I'd be
ready for such a thing, but it's just what you
leave behind. Because I had you have four kids, I
think three of them at least would have left them something,
you know, in memory. You know, you know how I was,
But my youngest with down syndrome was like, I don't
think he'd remember anything, and the only thing I could
(18:34):
do for him was to stick around. And so uh,
you know, just just knowing, uh now that you know,
it's like, I think we're through the woods on that
doesn't look like have any you know, major health problems
anytime soon. So it's really uh come to appreciate just
you know, uh, just life and knowing you got you know,
uh be able to look ahead and not you know,
(18:55):
I'm glad to hear that, being so uncertain whether you
actually be around.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
I mean, I think all of your kids are adorable.
But whenever I see your youngest, like, I smile. He
is just this full of joy kid. I like, he's
really beautiful and just I don't know, he always lights
up my day when I come across his picture.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
He's very much a little bundle of joy. I mean,
he you know, he can't sugar hood. He's difficult. He's
you know, and five, he's still like a toddler and
he's in very destructive mode now where it's just like
you don't pay attention to him for a minute, he'll
get any into anything. But it's uh, you know, the
love there and just the beauty of him is just
(19:41):
you know, it's hard to describe to other people, and
it's just in you know, his siblings just adore him.
It's like we don't have favorite kids, but kids they
have a favorite sibling and they just uh it's you know,
and that helps a lot because you know, and he
needs gonna need extra help, and it was nice to
know he has uh his brother and sisters there.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Yeah, that's really beautiful. So end here with your best
tip for my listeners on how they can improve their lives.
I know we talked a lot about you know, the
different things that people you know, how they can be
more grateful. But do you have like an overarching tip
for people to make their lives better today?
Speaker 2 (20:23):
I think, uh, just one thing I started to do
recently is just a beginning of my work day, I
say a prayer and just to try to center on
you know, what's important and things because you always get
because when you sit down and pray, I feel like,
realize what things I'd ask for that aren't really important
versus you know, what's really uh, you know, the important things.
(20:45):
And I always liked to That's what seven habits highly
successful people had a There's a few good things in there,
and one was like always start with the end in mind.
And that's when it's like, you know, I really want
to be a novelist. I really want to be successful
a writer. Like you know, think at the end, like
what do you want people to say at your funeral?
And I wouldn't care, you know, feel said, oh, he's
(21:05):
really good writer and stuff. But like you know, my
kids just say, you know, it's a good father. And
you know my wife just say, you know what, someone
strong supportive for her and uh. And I think it's
you know, it's good every day to uh reflect on
the blessings you have and uh and then you know,
and what you're really uh, what you're really aiming for.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
That was really good. You know. I think of you,
I mean obviously as a very funny guy and you're
on Twitter and you're a comedy writer and you just
uh and this has been a really funny, you know,
not funny, but very deep, non funny conversation where I
feel like we got into some real, you know, deep things.
It's it's just interesting to see somebody's personality off of Twitter, and.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
It hasn't really been a great sales pitch for Like, Hey,
this is a funny guy.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
He's really funny. You should follow Frank Flemming on Twitter.
He's hilarious and his writing is really funny. But you know, look,
I gotta be serious sometimes too, and we covered a
lot of serious ground here. So thanks so much for
coming on. Frank, love talking to you.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Hey, thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Thank you so much for joining us on The Carol
Markowitz Show. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
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