January 12, 2024 • 49 mins
Just days ahead of the Iowa Caucus, we're asking listeners on this episode of "The Middle with Jeremy Hobson," what they think the government should be going about immigration and border security. Jeremy is joined by Mary Sanchez, senior reporter at Kansas City PBS and columnist for Tribune, and Laredo, Texas Mayor Victor Treviño. The Middle's house DJ Tolliver joins as well, plus callers from around the country.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson here with Tolliver
as always, and Tolliver, we have some new listeners again
this week, this time from WNPR in Hartford and across
Connecticut and Long Island and WHRV in and around Norfolk, Virginia.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
You know, Jeremy, I have the pleasure of visiting Virginia
in my e lely twenties and was unfortunately introduced to
the nastiest cocktail I've ever had, which is the orange crush. Okay,
strong stock in Virginia, Strong people in Virginia.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
All right, Well, welcome to those listeners. Now, this is
the one week every four years when the national media
actually focuses on the middle Iowa, to be specific. The
reporters are parachuting in, going to diners, talking to voters,
getting very cold. And it turns out, according to the
highly respected Des Moines Register poll, one of Iowa Republicans'
biggest concerns is immigration and border security. It's just one
(00:53):
percentage point behind the economy and inflation. So this hour
we're asking listeners, what do you think the federal government
should do about immigration and the US Mexico border. You
can call us at eight four four four middle That
is eight four four four six four three three five
three while for your calls. Last week, our show was
(01:14):
about drugs like ozem and Wagovi that are being used
for weight loss, and we got so many great, very
personal voicemails. Take a listen.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Hi, my name is Jared Fizmer. I'm calling from Salt
Lake City, Utah.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Hello.
Speaker 5 (01:26):
My name is lu Anne.
Speaker 6 (01:28):
I'm calling from Little Rock, Arkansas.
Speaker 7 (01:30):
My name is Phyllis. I live in the northern suburbs
of Chicago. I find it extremely cynical that we will
not cover this drug for people on Medicare, and yet
the compounding effects of all the conditions that a show
up after age sixty five affected by weight gain is enormous.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
I'm a family practice doctor here. I feel more often
recently that patients are coming in just requesting their prescription
don't seem as open to incorporating a lot of the
other lifestyle factors.
Speaker 6 (02:04):
I was diagnosed as type two diabetic, and earlier this
year my intracrinologists started me on ozimpic and my A
one C is now down to five point seven, which
is wonderful, so it's working for me.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Thanks to everyone who called in. It was not an
easy topic for a lot of people to talk about.
And we do listen to those voicemails if you happen
to call when we're not live. But again, our number
this hour eight four four four six four three three
five three. So let's get to this hour's topic, which
is immigration. There is a chance that Republicans and Democrats
will come together with some reforms tied to spending on
(02:44):
Ukraine and Israel. Speaker of the House Mike Johnson took
a group of Republican lawmakers to the US Mexico border
to call for tougher enforcement.
Speaker 5 (02:55):
Every state in America is now a border state.
Speaker 8 (02:58):
One thing is absolutely clear.
Speaker 9 (03:01):
America is at a breaking point with record levels of
illegal immigration.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Now. It is true that in twenty twenty two there
was a record number of border apprehensions more than two million,
and it looks like twenty twenty three could be even higher.
Now when Speaker Johnson says every state is a border state,
that probably resonates with Democratic Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer,
who represents New York, because New York City has absorbed
(03:27):
more than one hundred and fifty thousand migrants As, Texas's
governor has been sending them to New York and other
cities over the last year. We all know there's a
problem at the border.
Speaker 10 (03:36):
The President does, Democrats do, and we're going to try
to solve that problem consistent with our principles.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
So what should the federal government do about undocumented immigrants
crossing the US Mexico border. We want to hear your thoughts.
Is it a crisis, should the border be closed or
should migrants who are here be allowed to work legally?
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Absolutely? Our number is eight four four five for Middle
that's eight four four four six four three three five three.
You can also email us by going to listen to
the Middle dot com.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Let's meet our panel joining us from the South Texas
border city of Laredo. Laredo Mayor Victor Trevino, Mayor.
Speaker 9 (04:13):
Welcome, thank you, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
And Mary Sanchez is with us, a senior reporter at
Kansas City PBS and columnists for Tribune Media. Mary, great
to have you back on the show as well.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
Great, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
And before we get to the phones and they are
lighting up, Mayor Trevino, I want to ask you you
were elected Mayor in twenty twenty two as a non partisan.
You're not affiliated with either of the parties. The speaker
of the House we just played said America is at
a breaking point. You're on the border. Is that true?
Speaker 9 (04:44):
We have a lot of challenges. We clearly have a
big challenge this year at the border, and I do
appreciate politicians taking a whore of our border, but we
need to update our asylum loss. I believe we need
to take or make an initial determination of their asylum
requests prior to entering the United States, especially over ninety
(05:05):
percent of a silent requests are being denied when they
do not make their court date. Now, having immigrants that
have been given entry should be able to work pay
taxes instead of believing that they will miraculusly support themselves
without money and without being able to get jobs. Immigration
(05:26):
on the border is not one side fits all conversation. Now.
For instance, we have been able to maintain the number
one port of entry in the United States here in Loredo,
Texas and have one of the lowest illegal crossings without
the need of a border wall, and some other communities
have not been as successful. So you have to live
(05:49):
and work here to get the real perception of what
this border challenges are. These are important things, and I
think by living here and working here, we have a
better perspective.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Mary Sanchez, you're in Kansas City. How does this issue
look from where you sit? Are you seeing migrants coming
through who have recently entered the country, and is it
something that's on the minds of voters in both Missouri
and Kansas this year.
Speaker 5 (06:14):
Yes, it is, partly because politicians tell them that it
should be.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
One of the things.
Speaker 5 (06:20):
I kind of laugh when they talk about every state
is a border state. We've immigration reporters have said that
for decades now. We used to always frame stories around
that because migrants go everywhere within the United States. Iowa
has a huge immigration population, Kansas huge Kansas City area,
(06:43):
So I mean the idea they go everywhere, they be
my own family, my father was an immigrant from Mexico City,
so you know, yes, it's present. I don't think it's
present in the same way as the border. I've spent
time in Laredo, I've spent time all all along the
border on the US side, on the Mexican side, and
(07:05):
crossed in many places as well, So I don't part
of the disconnects that happen is that people don't understand
the systems, and we can talk about some of that.
Even you know, the mayor mentioned asylum law. Most of
the people who are showing up at the border now
will not be able to get asylum as the laws
are written now. It wasn't written for them. It wasn't
(07:28):
written for that type of a person with that type
of challenge, And for people to even understand that is difficult.
Immigration law is very, very complicated, and people get muddled
partly because you know, why would they know if you've
never had an interface with it, you really wouldn't understand
how complicated it can be.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Right, let's get to a phone call, because we're getting
many of them. Adrian is joining us from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Adrian,
welcome to the middle Go ahead.
Speaker 10 (08:01):
Yes, I think we need to close the borders and
put the National rod on the border. Is necessary, assimilate
the people who regilately are here for asylum and send
the rest back. Corporations do not deserve They should not
be indulged in having chief the slave labor. They should
(08:24):
be We should enforce the labor laws that are only
in the books and have have them abide by the
law and do not try reaches into the desks for
legitimate American citizens in the.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Just to be clear, Adrian, you think we that the
United States should close the border, but for those who
are already here allow them to work.
Speaker 10 (08:48):
No whileever wrong, Well, I think that the volume should
be sent back. You don't have a relegitimate claim with
asylum the rooms you do the legitimate claim asylum should
be able the book about it.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah, thank you so much for that call, Mayor Travino.
Let me ask you about that because we've heard, you know,
just in the presidential debate on the Republican side that
just happened with Nikki Haley and Rondo Santis. Both of
them said everyone who's here illegally should be deported. There
should be no as rond Descantis called it, amnesty. What
about Adrian's point that the border should be closed.
Speaker 9 (09:26):
You know, one of the things as a border mayor
that grew up here. The recent migrant and refuge refugee
surgists have been like nothing I've ever seen before before.
We're seeing people not from Mexico open from other parts
of the world like China, Iran, Haiti, and South America.
On my office is a couple of streets from the
border and the NGOs that house the migrants. So it's
(09:48):
dramatic to see young kids and babies being held by
mothers out in the elements, in the rain and knowing
that they traveled eighteen hundred miles to get here. Now,
I do think this immigran and from migrants that they
call them are refugees, and that's a whole different story
because they're fleeing from war, they're fleeing from torture, from raid,
(10:10):
and from extortion, and migrant is not only that this
qualifies us as say refugee, So that's a completely different story.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Mayor Trevigno. When I hear people say, like, you know,
we want to put National Guard troops along along the border,
that sounds really difficult to me. Is that something that's realistic?
Speaker 9 (10:30):
You know, our major trading partner is Mexico. Forty of
the merchandise that crosses into the US comes to the Laredo, Texas.
Laredo is the largest international port in the United States.
We have a rich culture with our neighboring country and partnership.
It's built on collaboration and mutual respect. And humanitarism. Without
(10:54):
these guiding principles, long term success of any plan becomes
tenuous at best. So the principals are that one of
the major reasons Laredo continues to be successful as the
largest port in the United States is that it's one
of the safest cities with the fewest illegal crossings, and
all this is achieved without the need of the border walk.
(11:16):
I make it a point to have constant communication with
their Mexican counterparts, and for example, we see the greatest
need to work together regarding our limited resources such as
water from the Rio Grande.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
And stand by just a minute to Mayor Trevino. I
just want to remind our listeners that The Middle is
available as a podcast in partnership with iHeart Podcasts on
the iHeart Apple wherever you listen to podcasts and Tolliver.
You know, one of the biggest immigration reform bills that
actually passed in this country was in nineteen eighty.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Six, Yes my birth year. Here's CBS News anchor Dan
Rather talking about the passage of the nineteen eighty six
Immigration Reform Act under President Reagan.
Speaker 11 (11:51):
President Reagan didn't sign the sweeping new Immigration Reform Act today,
he said he protects the sacred procession of American citizenship.
Millions of illegal aliens will be eligible for amnesty and
will be able to apply for legal residency status, no
questions asked, but no such bright futures For other aliens,
ones who arrived after the cutoff date, the new law
(12:14):
increases the chances that they'll lose their reason for being here,
their jobs.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Just hearing him say illegal aliens is a change from
what we would probably hear a news anchor. I'd say today.
By the way, podcast listeners, if you would like to
donate to the Middle, it would make a huge difference.
We're trying to get on the road leading up to
the election this year, and your contribution's health there tax
deductible thanks to a partnership with journalism Funding Partners. You
can do that at listen to Themiddle dot com. Meanwhile,
(12:41):
we'll be right back after this. This is the Middle.
I'm Jeremy Hobson. If you're just tuning, In the Middle
is a national call in show. We're focused on elevating
voices from the middle geographically, politically and philosophically. Or maybe
you just want to meet in the Middle. This hour
we're asking what do you think the federal government should
be doing about immigration and order security? Tolliver, what is
(13:01):
that number to call it?
Speaker 2 (13:02):
It's eight four four four Middle. That's eight four four
four six four three three five three. You can also
write to us that listen to the Middle dot com
or on social media.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
We're joined by Laredo, Texas Mayor Victor Travino and Mary Sanchez,
senior reporter at Kansas City PBS and a columnists for
Tribune Media. Mary Sanchez, we talked about all the migrants
who have been sent to some of the big cities
in this country, like New York, Chicago, Denver, many of
whom are living in shelters supported by local taxpayers. Is
it realistic to allow the migrants who are here in
(13:34):
those cities to work legally in the US while they
wait for the immigration or asylum process to play out.
That's what the Biden administration just did with many Venezuelans
who are living in the United States.
Speaker 5 (13:47):
Yes, I would say it not only is possible feasible,
it needs to happen. I mean, people need to be
able to support themselves, they need to be processed. This
is all you know, wrote a column early on when
they first started that little scheme, and it was a
scheme to just throw people on buses and try and make,
you know, democratic led cities look bad. The people want
(14:10):
to go to cities where they have family, they want
to work. In a way, that was kind of true.
It kind of helped them get there, but it wasn't
done in coordination with the federal government. If it was
done in a coordinated way, if everyone was processed and checked,
that would be a good thing. That is how immigration
(14:30):
is supposed to work. But instead the Texas governor, Governor
Abbott started doing it as a political little ploy that
he could talk about and that it's offensive to those migrants,
you know, refugees as you know that's a legal status.
But I totally agree with the mayor in his assessment
of who the people are. They're incredibly desperate. They've gone
(14:53):
through hell and back just to get here. That doesn't
mean that they necessarily everyone should you would be allowed
to stay, but we can do the processes so that yes,
it could happen and you could help them. We had
some of the buses come through here and there was done.
It was done a little undercover, but we had some
(15:15):
support groups here in a church. Frankly, yeah, and some
immigration attorneys that met with them overnight, fed them, allowed
cared for people, and then kind of helped them get
on their way.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
That has shared us. The border is everywhere, absolutely, and
we've also seen, as you say, the kindness of people
is everywhere. But that being said, you know the cost
is going up. Denver spending apparently two million dollars a
week sheltering migrants. In New York has spent more than
one point seven billions so far, Chicago three hundred and
twenty million. So it is stressing a lot of these places.
(15:50):
Let's go to another call. Who is in Houston, Texas?
ROMY is joining us, Romy, Welcome to the middle What
do you think the US government should do about immigration?
Speaker 12 (16:00):
I have no question the United States government needs complete
the wall, need to keep the illegal aliens out of
this nation. We don't know what kind of diseases these
people carrying, who don't know what they're doing. Anybody can
say they're fleeing violence. They found the Hundas on the chair.
Watching this, You'll know if hunters who with the same
claiming they were fleeing violence, they were part of the
(16:21):
Mexican drug cartail, so anybody can put their stir together
at the border. America is not the dumping ground for
in the ingredients.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Let me take you that call, Mayor Travino. I'm sure
in the state of Texas. Maybe not right where you
are in Laredo, but in the state of Texas, you've
heard that view. What do you say to people when
they say that build the wall.
Speaker 9 (16:42):
Yeah, like I said, As someone that was born and
raised in the border and a local doctor has practiced
on both sides of the river, I see some unvarnished
realities of humanity, human beings looking for work in better life,
and it always disappoints me to hear proposals that have
no context are based on nativism, especially for people that
do not live here. Proposal like sending active US military
(17:05):
deals with cartels or creating citizen malicious to guard border
would not work and the end of these proposal will
only local public support. It will damage your relationship whether
our partner in Mexico, and would also have opposite impact
by further incentivizing drug cartels to charge more for human
trafficking and high demand drugs that are being smuggled into
(17:28):
the United States.
Speaker 5 (17:30):
That's one of the things here just to point out is,
you know, there's a lot of terms, and I understand
how they get used, but you really can't close though.
I always want to say, what do people mean by
close the border? It's not like it's a door. There
are places where a wall has been very effective and
(17:51):
where walls can be effective as barriers. There's also those
ports where millions of dollars worth of goods needs to
be able to cross every single day in both directions.
The border is almost two thousand miles long. Part of
it is water, part of it is mountain range, part
of it is desert. Seventy five miles of it in
(18:14):
Arizona is sovereign.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Indian nation land.
Speaker 5 (18:17):
It's the Tahono Indian Nation Land. We don't have rights there.
They have their own border security. So when people use
those terms, I think partly they haven't literally been to
the border to know, and so that it kind of
disrupts a conversation that could be more thoughtful because they
(18:38):
simply don't know. And that's not their fault. I don't
mean that in a demeaning way to say that people
are ignorant. They literally don't know You can often tell
how little someone knows about immigration law, about the border,
about the difference between a refugee, an asylum, an immigrant
a work visa, simply by how they frame the question
(18:59):
or their comment.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Although for some people in this country, I guess what
they would need to know is that the immigrant family
that moved into their town wherever it is is willing
to work a job for less money than their kid,
or than their friend in the town or whatever, and
so it may be impacting them in that way, and
so that's what they know about it.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
They know that, or I guarantee you if if you
looked in almost the back end of any restaurant, almost
any restaurant, high low end, and my father was a
chef and he was legal, so before anyone starts any
of that, actually got his citizenship after he fought in
World War Two for this country. And that is a
(19:44):
very common story, particularly for migrants from Mexico. Anyway, if
you looked in the restaurant industry alone, it is run
by immigrant labor, and some of it is undocumented, not
because people don't want documentation, but because it's so difficult
to get it. You mentioned that the last big immigration
(20:07):
overhaul of our laws by Congress, which does control it
was in nineteen eighty six. There was a little tweak
in ninety two. That's a long time ago. The world
has changed, our demographic needs have changed. We need more labor.
There's the baby boomers are aging out. We don't have
enough labor.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Let's go to another call. Tina is with us from Tampa, Florida. Tina,
welcome to the middle Go ahead.
Speaker 13 (20:34):
Hello, very nice to get to speak to you real quick.
I don't understand this thing about making the immigrants the enemy.
I come from immigrant family. Immigrants are valuable assets to
our country. And what we really need is an entry
way the same way we had Elis Island, where people
(20:55):
can be processed. We can find out who they are,
we can assign them some sort of number, like a
Social Security type number, so that they can pay taxes,
and they do jobs that other people don't want to do.
The fruit is rotting over here if we don't have
people to pick it, and our people don't want to
do it. And just as soon as 'ron DeSantis provides
(21:15):
a new law, more people leave in fear to go
to some other state. I think that we just need
a process so they can come in legally and we
can know who they are, and they can have whether
you fingerprint them or whatever you do. They've entered our country,
we now have They have access to us, and we
(21:37):
have access to them, and they can provide for our country.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Tina, thank you so much for that call. Mayor Travigno.
I want to ask you just following that to its conclusion,
in order for people to be processed, there has to
be enough immigration judges and all kinds of people that
would work for the government to do that. We're very
far away from that right now, aren't we.
Speaker 9 (21:58):
Yes, we are immigration reformists, long overdue, and one of
the challenges is to remove the beliefs that the United
States is solely responsible only for border security on our
southern border, even with all the law enforcement agencies on
the border. This cannot be achieved alone United States and
needs collaboration from its principal trade partner, Mexico. Collaboration must
(22:21):
begin again with mutual respect and not finger pointing. Investing
more on resources, enjoin drug task forces, immigration policy programs
in Mexico and online. This could dramatically reduce the caravans
of immigrants. Unsuccessfully risking their lives to travel thousands miles
to reach the US border. So I think that that's
(22:43):
crucial and important.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Let's go to Isaac in Saint Paul, Minnesota. Isaac, welcome
to the middle What do you think the government should
do about immigration?
Speaker 8 (22:53):
Well, so my point is, I'm actually I was an
illegal immigrant about fifteen years ago who came to the US,
and I'm one of the fortunate that actually got the
path to citizenship. So, you know, I believe that allowing
immigrants to become citizens honors the American dream by offering
(23:15):
a chance for a better life filled with hope, hard work,
and the pursuit of happiness for everyone, including me, no
matter where where we came from.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
How did you get into the country.
Speaker 8 (23:28):
I am Ecuadorian. I I across the border like everybody else.
That was a long time ago. I you know, I
settled in Minnesota about fifteen years ago. I found my
way to a path to citizenship. Right now, I am
an IT officer working in Minnesota for one of the
(23:48):
Fortune five hundred companies, and I'm grateful, you know, And
that's why I honestly believe that it's everyone should be
given the chance. The people that are already here, my peers,
the people that are going to come because I believe
America is their maiceran dream is, you know, making immigrants
immigrants dream come true. That that's what I believe.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Let me ask you one more thing. You sound pretty young.
I mean I can't tell for sure, but you sound
pretty young. How young were you when you came across
into the United States?
Speaker 8 (24:16):
I was very I was about twelve years old when
I'm at the order with my family.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Got it, Isaac, Thank you so much for that call.
That's really really fascinating. Let me get to another one here, Noel,
who's in Poughkeepsie, New York. Noel, welcome to the middle Go.
Speaker 14 (24:31):
Ahead, thank you, Yes, thank you so much for taking
my call. I just wanted to comment on the topic
regarding immigration.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 15 (24:43):
Can you hear me, Yeah, we can hear you.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Go ahead.
Speaker 14 (24:45):
Well here's Yes, here's a couple of thoughts. I think overall,
as far as the government is concerned, I think we've
prostituted as the American citizenship or political expediency. It's been
so many years that we've been discussed this issue. We
hear about jobs, we hear about humans. The mother and
(25:05):
the child, And I think that taps into that human
emotional part of us to make us feel guilty if
we don't accept people into the country. So here's the
other point. A law is only legal when it's enforced,
and right now there is no immigration law. That's the
bottom line. I mean, however, you want to spend it
because the law is not being enforced consistently. On a
(25:28):
micro level. In my home, I have a front door
on the back door while I'm away from that home.
If someone comes into my back door while I'm gone
and help themselves to my food and to my house basically,
and I come in and find this person right now,
we're kind of saying, okay, let's just allow that person
(25:49):
to be there. Right We would not do that in
our own house, but yet we do that in the country.
We have people standing in line legitimately waiting for citizenship
to get into the country. However, we're allowing other flux
of people to come in. So I think that's sort
of the problem. We will not allowed that in our
own home either. We're going to be a country with
(26:10):
laws regarding citizenship, and I think we've lost that value
with regards to citizenship.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Well, no, Well we've got it, and thank you, thank
you so much for that call. I want to go
to Mary Sanchez on a lot of points there. But
what about that that point that you know, if you
allow people who have come in illegally, then what about
the people who have gone through the process in the
proper way.
Speaker 5 (26:34):
Well, that's the people who are showing up at the
border are doing at the southern border, actually are doing
it legally. It is illegal, it's there legal. It's an
international right even to apply for aside if they are legal.
But I hear the caller, I know what he's saying.
And here's part of the truth of how broken our
system is. Even people who are deemed in a more
(26:57):
positive light. We've been hold documentaries here on this, particularly
immigrants from India who came here on a work visa.
It's called an H one B for them to become
US citizens. The weight is more than two hundred years
now because there's a tapped out number and Congress will
(27:19):
not raise the number. These are people who are your
IT people. They're doctors, they're very highly skilled. It's for
people with a college degree and more. They generally have
even masters and much much higher degrees or much brighter
than I am, quite honestly, and it's a two hundred
year weight. They will die before they will ever be
(27:41):
able to be legal. Well, why runs out?
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Why is it? Why is it such a hard issue,
Mayor Travino for Congress to sort of everybody recognizes that
there's a problem. Why is it so hard for the
two parties to say, Okay, this is how we're going
to fix this problem.
Speaker 9 (28:00):
I guess the answer to that is political, of course,
and asylum is a legal process, and we believe in laws.
Where a country of laws, the problem is resources and reform.
Now the US is the beacon of freedom and opportunity.
Jil Laredo assigned the Declaration of emergency last year before
(28:21):
the government was about to shut down because immigration is
a federal responsibility and we're having to look at it
at a local level and struggling to be men. Now,
you can't imagine having a federal government shut down. We
would be overwhelmed. So I think these things are federal
issues and that impacts us locally, and we have to
look at this in a legal way, in a reform way,
(28:44):
and in a humanitarian way.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Tolliver, I know some comments are coming in online at
Listen to the Middle dot com.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Yeah Herald from Saint Paul says, I believe the most
important thing is for Congress to commit funds to a
comprehensive system of training immigration judges providing systems to accept
or reject asylum requests. David and Kansas City Rights. Growing
up in Orange County, California in the sixties, remembering dark
green multi family housing near the then centrus orchards and
strawberry fields, there was no border problem with Mexico. Why
(29:12):
because there was the Brassero Labor Program, under which almost
five million Mexicans were allowed to legally into the United
States and work.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Mary Sanchez briefly, the Brassero Labor program, can you just
give our listeners what that is?
Speaker 5 (29:24):
It means, it's basically it's off of it means strong arms.
It was a labor program when we needed labor and
we brought more people in. There were there were problems
with it though they were sent back without their wage,
as many of them. It took decades to settle the
lawsuits over that. But it literally was it's like work
visas basically, and it was a federal program that answered
(29:47):
somewhat of what I would argue we still need to
do is just allow people to work here more legally.
And some of it might be that was for a
temporary It was supposed to be a temporary fixed and
people came up here and they did they did the work.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
But that was in the sixties.
Speaker 5 (30:07):
That was, by the way, the sixties was it started
in the forties as right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Well stand by. A Reminder of the Middle is available
as a podcast in partnership with iHeart Podcasts on the
iHeart app, art app, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
So Jeremy, we heard earlier about President Reagan and an
immigration act in eighty six. Now listen to former President
Bill Clinton and how he talked about immigration during his
State of the Union address in nineteen ninety five.
Speaker 16 (30:30):
We are a nation of immigrants, but we are also
a nation of laws. It is wrong and ultimately self
defeating for a nation of immigrants to permit the kind
of abuse of our immigration laws we have seen in
recent years, and we must do more to stop them.
Speaker 15 (30:48):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Times have changed absolutely.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
I want to remind you all to rate the podcast.
Wherever you listen to podcasts, hit us with those five stars.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Yes, come on and we will be right back after.
This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. We're talking about
immigration and the US Mexico border. What do you think
the federal government should be doing about it? You can
call us at eight four four for Middle. That's eight
four four four six four three three five three. You
can also reach out to us at listen toothm middle
(31:16):
dot com. Let's go to Chi in Boise, Idaho. Chi,
Welcome to the Middle.
Speaker 17 (31:20):
Go ahead, well, hello, in Idaho. We have at least
three different industries, whole industries who are completely dependent on
immigrant labor, and with the borders closed, even with all
(31:41):
the different slowdowns, it's really really hurt labor here in Idaho,
and some of these industries as the only people that
they can hire, and so immigration, however it happens, is
essential for the state of Idaho.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Do your fellow Idahoans agree with you that the only
way for these industries to work is with immigrant labor.
Speaker 17 (32:09):
It is with the people who are in those industries.
There's absolutely nobody else to hire. There's such a labor
shortage here that restaurants close because we don't have people
to staff them and stores close. We have a real
problem with labor right here and so on these major
industries within agriculture, dairy, meatpacking, and a couple others, they're
(32:38):
almost one hundred percent immigrant labor.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Chief. Thank you so much for that call, Mary Sanchez.
It's interesting to me that there aren't any politicians on
any side of any aisle who are making the case
that we've got to have more immigrants coming in because
our labor force requires it.
Speaker 5 (32:58):
You hear it every now and then, and actually, I
think when they're not on making a stump speech, when
they're not trying to get through a primary, you'll hear
it in more honest conversation, and frankly from both you know, Democrats, Republicans, independents,
people who you know, start looking at our economy and
(33:19):
really looking at numbers and looking at labor force issues,
they will wind up with that truth and that reality
is that we don't have enough people in our labor market.
It's just it's a demographics. If you look at the
baby boomers alone, we're nearing closer to where Europe already is.
(33:39):
Asia is as well. Whenever you have more people over
the age of sixty five than you do under the
age of five. You're lopsided on your economy and we're
going to get there really quickly, and that's a problem.
So that's why we need to we be in Congress
and the American public behind them get about, you know,
(34:00):
raising visa limits, creating the processes. Someone actually mentioned the
immigration courts. They're so overloaded.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Right now.
Speaker 5 (34:08):
We've got one here. It's on the fourth floor of
a building really close to here. It's a law office,
and you know there are attorneys that know just don't
even show up immigration attorneys because they're so backlogged they'll
never hear their case.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Let's go to Perry in Oconto, Wisconsin. Perry, welcome to
the middle. What do you think the government should do
about immigration?
Speaker 18 (34:31):
Yes, I think a lot of it's just a political
issue that keeps the electric inflame. Because in the past,
I'm sixty years old, people could travel back and forth.
They didn't need to bring their whole family because they
could go back home, bring the money back, and then
(34:53):
come back and work. And so I think a lot
of it is the politicians, especially the Republic, trying to
make this a wedge issue.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Perry, Thank you very much. Victor Travino. It brings up
a question of how things have changed over time. Are
we really seeing that many more people? I mean, we
talked about apprehensions being at a record, but are we
really seeing that many more people overall compared to our
population coming into the United States now?
Speaker 9 (35:24):
But I think we've seen these recent waves and surges
of immigrants coming from South America. We hadn't seen that
amount of waves coming in before. But we can see
going back to the point that immigrants are needed in
this country, the birth of people here in the country
are doing linking. Families are not having any more children
(35:46):
or having one or two, so the workforce is depleted.
So what are we going to do without immigrants? And
as it is, the United States was built on the
efforts on the backs of immigrants. This is a country
of immigrant. So we have to look at reality and
we have to put politics aside. One of the things
that people might be afraid of some politicians say is
(36:09):
how the immigrants are going to are going to vote?
Speaker 8 (36:12):
If they?
Speaker 9 (36:12):
If they?
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Uh, let's go to Hector, who is in Boston, Massachusetts. Hector,
welcome to the middle A good evening, Jeremy, good evening.
Speaker 19 (36:24):
Go ahead, Okay, My response is going to be brief
and simple. Immigration is not a problem. Politicians make it
a problem. We've had immigration since the first of the nation.
We're going to continue to have immigration. Uh. The resolution
will be quite simple. A lot of people will not
want to leave their families. They do so out of
(36:45):
necessity or for other issues. If we were to create
something like the Marshall Plan, which we did in Europe
ultimately became the EU and a very strong allies are now,
it will be a lot cheaper. We would build up
the economies of Latin American countries. There will be more
ampty stay in their countries and are knockdown the inflow
of immigration. The vast majority of these people are not
(37:07):
terrorists or no problems, despite what other people may say,
because the proof is there. If so many immigrants are
coming in, why aren't we under attack like a nine eleven.
I mean, politicians keep this alive because they garner the votes,
and that's the only reason that they keep this away alive.
And let's build this up, and let's build that up.
(37:28):
That's not going to work. It has to begin at home.
It has to begin at their home and it will
pay off even if we spend billions of dollars now,
it will be trilling the dollars that we will say
down the line.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Hector, thank you so much. Mary Sanchez. A Marshall plan
for Latin America. I mean this has been talked about,
certainly since President Biden came into office, of trying to
spend more money in some of the countries where a
lot of people are coming from to make them safer
and make people want to stay there. But it hasn't
worked yet.
Speaker 20 (38:01):
No.
Speaker 5 (38:02):
I mean the caller makes a lot of really good points,
and actually I want to say it is called something
like a Marshall is in the name of some of
our federal government reach outs to other countries. Part of
what is affecting you know the mayor at the Southern border,
is that we are there's a huge global disruption. You know,
(38:23):
there are more migrants now in the world globally because
of so many things, because of war, because of famine, drought,
climate change. You just saw what happened in Ecuador this week.
I mean that's involves drug cartels, horrific.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
You know violence.
Speaker 5 (38:45):
We're of impacted by that. We are part of the
global migration that is occurring so that's very true, you know.
And at the same time it was also true, as
another caller said, is that people did used to come
back and forth across the border much more openly. But
(39:07):
the patterns have always been kind of the same generally.
You know, a man might come up here first and
work for a bit, send money back. He'll go back
and forth, get more settled here. Perhaps you'll meet someone Mary,
have children, and then start establishing more roots, and then
more family will come. We need to have our processes
(39:27):
to allow that to occur legally, that's all we're saying.
We have that now, but not to the extent that
we need given everything that is occurring in the world.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Let's go to Jane in Wyoming. Jan Jeane, you're there, Yes,
I am here, go ahead, you're on the air.
Speaker 15 (39:49):
Well.
Speaker 20 (39:49):
First of all, I have five really good issues, but
she told me I could only.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Meet Yeah, just pick one. How about that?
Speaker 20 (39:57):
So so every country they every country is representative and
controlled by dictatorships, including the United States at the moment,
if all those dictators were removed from office and replaced
from good, decent, honest political representatives, that would provide life, liberty,
(40:21):
and the pursuit of happiness to citizens of every country,
including the United States. Then there wouldn't then these people
would want to stay in their own countries and they
wouldn't want to have to cross the border to come
over here. The think they're going to get in a
better life, because a better life than the United States
does not exist.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Okay, Well, so no dictators and just to be just
to be very clear where we don't have a dictator
as president of this country. Right now, let's go to
Christina in Sarasota, Florida. Christina, You've got a question.
Speaker 4 (40:56):
I do.
Speaker 8 (40:56):
Can you hear me?
Speaker 4 (40:57):
Yeah, go ahead, fantastic, Yes, I wanted to pose a
question for your guests on the air this evening. Earlier,
you shared that you know, the average American doesn't fully
understand what's happening at the border, and I think there's
some truth to that. I have to admit. You know,
I've lived I'm almost fifty, I've lived in United States.
(41:18):
My mom's an immigrant. I believe in immigration. I guess
my question is what's going on at the border right
now feels different to me. And what I can't seem
to nail down is why, what is the complexity that's
happening at the border right now, that there's just this
massive influx of immigrants, and you know, I can never
seem to get an answer to that, and I'm hoping
(41:38):
those that are on your on your you know show
this evening could maybe shed some light because they're they're
in that area and I do not know fully what's
taking place.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Great, great question, Christina, Thank you, mayor Trevigno. It does
feel different. Does it feel different to you or how
would you respond to Christina?
Speaker 9 (41:58):
Yes, we see that these recent immigration wasts have been
different than before. There's a lot of factors to this,
and the United States have been already influenced by coyotes,
human traffickers, and cartels, people that make money from moving
people or human trafficking or even charging the immigrants to
(42:22):
come over. So this is basically I think has become
a business for them also, So that's one of the factors.
The other factors that they're fleeing from treachery and robbery
and all that that happens in their country and a
better way of life. So we understand that, like I said, initially,
immigrants are right now refugees and it's a little bit different.
(42:46):
So that also is another factor why we're having more ways.
Speaker 15 (42:49):
Now.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Hi, Mary Sanchez, this is your trustee, DJ Tolliver. In
my home city of Chicago. Brandon Johnson, the mayor, has
taken a shellacking for the way he's handled the margareant crisis.
Wanted to known Kansas City. How risk is it for
a politician to be sort of pro migrant in this environment.
Speaker 5 (43:07):
Well, it's more to the state, well, actually Kansas City,
Kansas as well. Where I am right now, I'm in
Kansas City, Missouri. But I could literally take off running
and end up but well I'd have to run pretty fast.
But the study line is really close. We are a
too state, a bistate Missouri in Kansas region, Kansas City,
(43:28):
Kansas passed within their city. It's a unified government like Indianapolis.
A welcoming like welcoming law is basically trying to be
more welcoming to migrants. Immigrants, they're the most diverse portion
of the greater Kansas City area. There was a backlash
(43:48):
immediately through the Kansas State legislature, so it can become
very political very quickly. Unfortunately, that is the backs of immigrants.
It's very unfair, but yes, it can.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
We're getting some comments in online. Paul writes, much of
the conversation about immigration is emotionally fueled instead of what's
the best think strategic wall building is in some places,
I think an electronic wall needs to be expanded in
some places. Meritravino, what about that. We've been hearing about
that for years. Well, you know, we don't need to
build a real wall because you could just have technology.
(44:26):
But it hasn't been really done yet, has it.
Speaker 9 (44:29):
Yes, we need border security, absolutely, and border physical walls
are not needed in some places, like in our stay
in Ledo, Texas, we have the least immigrated legal immigration crossings.
But there's some places that are by themselves, there's no
cities nearby that those could probably benefit from a physical wall.
(44:51):
So it is depending on the area. But absolutely border
security is a musk.
Speaker 15 (44:57):
I agree with that.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
Let's get one more call in Darien is in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
Hy Darien, Welcome to the middle Go ahead.
Speaker 15 (45:06):
Hello, my name is are Darian Edos people, and I'm
against illegal immigration because illegal immigration is a slap in
the face to all immigrants who are trying to get
here legally. And I'm not against legal immigration. I'm against
illegal immigration. When so many illegal immigrants are allowed to
(45:29):
run across the US border'n you're gonna have so many people,
You're gonna have people from other countries to clog up
US government assets or from Texas local government assets, Louisiana
local government assets. When you're housing so many illegal immigrants
(45:51):
to how can you stop it? You can stop it
by sending everybody back home as soon as they get here.
Or the US government can put tariffs on goods coming
from Mexico or Honduras or Guatemala, you know, or whatever.
You can put terrorifts on tariffs on goods coming from
those countries for those countries to do something to how
(46:14):
can you let so many people run from run through
the country of Mexico, run through the whatever country is
on the other border of Mexico. How can the Mexican
government let all those people travel through their country. I
guess they say, hey, it's not our problem that them
go is going to be their problem, all.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
Right, Darien, We've got it there. Mary Sanchez, just briefly
a response to that, because that is a view that
is common in a lot of the United States.
Speaker 5 (46:40):
Yeah, well, one thing, and the mayor spoken to this
is that it is our relationship with Mexico and other
countries that is very much involved, and we do work
with as a nation with Mexico about how they manage
migrants coming up through from their country to reach us.
So that is part of it. The other thing is
we do do port. We deport all the time. I
(47:02):
haven't checked lately, but there used to be a plane
that would go out of kCi, Kansas City every Friday
at noon that was just full. It was deporties. So
the idea that no one is being shoved out.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
Right is not right, not correct. We do have time
before we wrap up this hour for a quiz tolliver
for our guests.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
Absolutely so. According to Pugh, between twenty seventeen and twenty
twenty one, two states on uptick and unauthorized immigrants.
Speaker 15 (47:29):
If you can name.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
One of them, you get a mug from the middle. Okay,
you can jump in whenever you're ready.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
Either of you have a guest on that probably Texas, Texas.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
It was Washington and Florida.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
Washington and Florida. Ok. Wow, very entering, get you you know, well,
what a fascinating conversation. Really amazing calls, and you've both
been wonderful. A Mayor Victor Travigno in Laredo, Texas, thank
you so much for joining us. Thank you for having
me and Mary sam And, says senior correspondent at Kansas
City PBS and columnists for Tribune Media. Thanks to you
(48:04):
as well. Thank you and Tolliver. What do we have
on tap for next week?
Speaker 2 (48:08):
Next week, we're talking about China and its relationship with
the United States.
Speaker 1 (48:12):
It is already a big topic in this election. Everybody
wants to show how tough they are on China, but
also it is the second largest economy in the world,
a growing military power, and of course there are concerns
about what may happen with Taiwan and what the US
would do if China used military force to take Taiwan.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
Yes, so call us with your questions and comments at
eight four four four six four three three five three
or right in at listen toothe Middle dot com. And
while you're there, sign up for our weekly newsletter.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
The Middle is brought to you by Longnook Media, distributed
by Illinois Public Media in Urbana, Illinois, and produced by
Joe Anne Jennings, Harrison Patino, John Barth and Danny Alexander.
Our technical director is Jason Kroft. Our theme music was
composed by Andrew Haig. Thanks also to Nashville Public Radio, iHeartMedia,
and the more than three hundred and eighty public radio
stations around the country that are making it possible for
(48:58):
people across the country to li sen to the Middle.
I'm Jeremy Hobson. Talk to you next week.
Welcome to the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson here with Tolliver
as always, and Tolliver, we have some new listeners again
this week, this time from WNPR in Hartford and across
Connecticut and Long Island and WHRV in and around Norfolk, Virginia.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
You know, Jeremy, I have the pleasure of visiting Virginia
in my e lely twenties and was unfortunately introduced to
the nastiest cocktail I've ever had, which is the orange crush. Okay,
strong stock in Virginia, Strong people in Virginia.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
All right, Well, welcome to those listeners. Now, this is
the one week every four years when the national media
actually focuses on the middle Iowa, to be specific. The
reporters are parachuting in, going to diners, talking to voters,
getting very cold. And it turns out, according to the
highly respected Des Moines Register poll, one of Iowa Republicans'
biggest concerns is immigration and border security. It's just one
(00:53):
percentage point behind the economy and inflation. So this hour
we're asking listeners, what do you think the federal government
should do about immigration and the US Mexico border. You
can call us at eight four four four middle That
is eight four four four six four three three five
three while for your calls. Last week, our show was
(01:14):
about drugs like ozem and Wagovi that are being used
for weight loss, and we got so many great, very
personal voicemails. Take a listen.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Hi, my name is Jared Fizmer. I'm calling from Salt
Lake City, Utah.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Hello.
Speaker 5 (01:26):
My name is lu Anne.
Speaker 6 (01:28):
I'm calling from Little Rock, Arkansas.
Speaker 7 (01:30):
My name is Phyllis. I live in the northern suburbs
of Chicago. I find it extremely cynical that we will
not cover this drug for people on Medicare, and yet
the compounding effects of all the conditions that a show
up after age sixty five affected by weight gain is enormous.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
I'm a family practice doctor here. I feel more often
recently that patients are coming in just requesting their prescription
don't seem as open to incorporating a lot of the
other lifestyle factors.
Speaker 6 (02:04):
I was diagnosed as type two diabetic, and earlier this
year my intracrinologists started me on ozimpic and my A
one C is now down to five point seven, which
is wonderful, so it's working for me.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Thanks to everyone who called in. It was not an
easy topic for a lot of people to talk about.
And we do listen to those voicemails if you happen
to call when we're not live. But again, our number
this hour eight four four four six four three three
five three. So let's get to this hour's topic, which
is immigration. There is a chance that Republicans and Democrats
will come together with some reforms tied to spending on
(02:44):
Ukraine and Israel. Speaker of the House Mike Johnson took
a group of Republican lawmakers to the US Mexico border
to call for tougher enforcement.
Speaker 5 (02:55):
Every state in America is now a border state.
Speaker 8 (02:58):
One thing is absolutely clear.
Speaker 9 (03:01):
America is at a breaking point with record levels of
illegal immigration.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Now. It is true that in twenty twenty two there
was a record number of border apprehensions more than two million,
and it looks like twenty twenty three could be even higher.
Now when Speaker Johnson says every state is a border state,
that probably resonates with Democratic Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer,
who represents New York, because New York City has absorbed
(03:27):
more than one hundred and fifty thousand migrants As, Texas's
governor has been sending them to New York and other
cities over the last year. We all know there's a
problem at the border.
Speaker 10 (03:36):
The President does, Democrats do, and we're going to try
to solve that problem consistent with our principles.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
So what should the federal government do about undocumented immigrants
crossing the US Mexico border. We want to hear your thoughts.
Is it a crisis, should the border be closed or
should migrants who are here be allowed to work legally?
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Absolutely? Our number is eight four four five for Middle
that's eight four four four six four three three five three.
You can also email us by going to listen to
the Middle dot com.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Let's meet our panel joining us from the South Texas
border city of Laredo. Laredo Mayor Victor Trevino, Mayor.
Speaker 9 (04:13):
Welcome, thank you, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
And Mary Sanchez is with us, a senior reporter at
Kansas City PBS and columnists for Tribune Media. Mary, great
to have you back on the show as well.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
Great, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
And before we get to the phones and they are
lighting up, Mayor Trevino, I want to ask you you
were elected Mayor in twenty twenty two as a non partisan.
You're not affiliated with either of the parties. The speaker
of the House we just played said America is at
a breaking point. You're on the border. Is that true?
Speaker 9 (04:44):
We have a lot of challenges. We clearly have a
big challenge this year at the border, and I do
appreciate politicians taking a whore of our border, but we
need to update our asylum loss. I believe we need
to take or make an initial determination of their asylum
requests prior to entering the United States, especially over ninety
(05:05):
percent of a silent requests are being denied when they
do not make their court date. Now, having immigrants that
have been given entry should be able to work pay
taxes instead of believing that they will miraculusly support themselves
without money and without being able to get jobs. Immigration
(05:26):
on the border is not one side fits all conversation. Now.
For instance, we have been able to maintain the number
one port of entry in the United States here in Loredo,
Texas and have one of the lowest illegal crossings without
the need of a border wall, and some other communities
have not been as successful. So you have to live
(05:49):
and work here to get the real perception of what
this border challenges are. These are important things, and I
think by living here and working here, we have a
better perspective.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Mary Sanchez, you're in Kansas City. How does this issue
look from where you sit? Are you seeing migrants coming
through who have recently entered the country, and is it
something that's on the minds of voters in both Missouri
and Kansas this year.
Speaker 5 (06:14):
Yes, it is, partly because politicians tell them that it
should be.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
One of the things.
Speaker 5 (06:20):
I kind of laugh when they talk about every state
is a border state. We've immigration reporters have said that
for decades now. We used to always frame stories around
that because migrants go everywhere within the United States. Iowa
has a huge immigration population, Kansas huge Kansas City area,
(06:43):
So I mean the idea they go everywhere, they be
my own family, my father was an immigrant from Mexico City,
so you know, yes, it's present. I don't think it's
present in the same way as the border. I've spent
time in Laredo, I've spent time all all along the
border on the US side, on the Mexican side, and
(07:05):
crossed in many places as well, So I don't part
of the disconnects that happen is that people don't understand
the systems, and we can talk about some of that.
Even you know, the mayor mentioned asylum law. Most of
the people who are showing up at the border now
will not be able to get asylum as the laws
are written now. It wasn't written for them. It wasn't
(07:28):
written for that type of a person with that type
of challenge, And for people to even understand that is difficult.
Immigration law is very, very complicated, and people get muddled
partly because you know, why would they know if you've
never had an interface with it, you really wouldn't understand
how complicated it can be.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Right, let's get to a phone call, because we're getting
many of them. Adrian is joining us from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Adrian,
welcome to the middle Go ahead.
Speaker 10 (08:01):
Yes, I think we need to close the borders and
put the National rod on the border. Is necessary, assimilate
the people who regilately are here for asylum and send
the rest back. Corporations do not deserve They should not
be indulged in having chief the slave labor. They should
(08:24):
be We should enforce the labor laws that are only
in the books and have have them abide by the
law and do not try reaches into the desks for
legitimate American citizens in the.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Just to be clear, Adrian, you think we that the
United States should close the border, but for those who
are already here allow them to work.
Speaker 10 (08:48):
No whileever wrong, Well, I think that the volume should
be sent back. You don't have a relegitimate claim with
asylum the rooms you do the legitimate claim asylum should
be able the book about it.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah, thank you so much for that call, Mayor Travino.
Let me ask you about that because we've heard, you know,
just in the presidential debate on the Republican side that
just happened with Nikki Haley and Rondo Santis. Both of
them said everyone who's here illegally should be deported. There
should be no as rond Descantis called it, amnesty. What
about Adrian's point that the border should be closed.
Speaker 9 (09:26):
You know, one of the things as a border mayor
that grew up here. The recent migrant and refuge refugee
surgists have been like nothing I've ever seen before before.
We're seeing people not from Mexico open from other parts
of the world like China, Iran, Haiti, and South America.
On my office is a couple of streets from the
border and the NGOs that house the migrants. So it's
(09:48):
dramatic to see young kids and babies being held by
mothers out in the elements, in the rain and knowing
that they traveled eighteen hundred miles to get here. Now,
I do think this immigran and from migrants that they
call them are refugees, and that's a whole different story
because they're fleeing from war, they're fleeing from torture, from raid,
(10:10):
and from extortion, and migrant is not only that this
qualifies us as say refugee, So that's a completely different story.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Mayor Trevigno. When I hear people say, like, you know,
we want to put National Guard troops along along the border,
that sounds really difficult to me. Is that something that's realistic?
Speaker 9 (10:30):
You know, our major trading partner is Mexico. Forty of
the merchandise that crosses into the US comes to the Laredo, Texas.
Laredo is the largest international port in the United States.
We have a rich culture with our neighboring country and partnership.
It's built on collaboration and mutual respect. And humanitarism. Without
(10:54):
these guiding principles, long term success of any plan becomes
tenuous at best. So the principals are that one of
the major reasons Laredo continues to be successful as the
largest port in the United States is that it's one
of the safest cities with the fewest illegal crossings, and
all this is achieved without the need of the border walk.
(11:16):
I make it a point to have constant communication with
their Mexican counterparts, and for example, we see the greatest
need to work together regarding our limited resources such as
water from the Rio Grande.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
And stand by just a minute to Mayor Trevino. I
just want to remind our listeners that The Middle is
available as a podcast in partnership with iHeart Podcasts on
the iHeart Apple wherever you listen to podcasts and Tolliver.
You know, one of the biggest immigration reform bills that
actually passed in this country was in nineteen eighty.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Six, Yes my birth year. Here's CBS News anchor Dan
Rather talking about the passage of the nineteen eighty six
Immigration Reform Act under President Reagan.
Speaker 11 (11:51):
President Reagan didn't sign the sweeping new Immigration Reform Act today,
he said he protects the sacred procession of American citizenship.
Millions of illegal aliens will be eligible for amnesty and
will be able to apply for legal residency status, no
questions asked, but no such bright futures For other aliens,
ones who arrived after the cutoff date, the new law
(12:14):
increases the chances that they'll lose their reason for being here,
their jobs.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Just hearing him say illegal aliens is a change from
what we would probably hear a news anchor. I'd say today.
By the way, podcast listeners, if you would like to
donate to the Middle, it would make a huge difference.
We're trying to get on the road leading up to
the election this year, and your contribution's health there tax
deductible thanks to a partnership with journalism Funding Partners. You
can do that at listen to Themiddle dot com. Meanwhile,
(12:41):
we'll be right back after this. This is the Middle.
I'm Jeremy Hobson. If you're just tuning, In the Middle
is a national call in show. We're focused on elevating
voices from the middle geographically, politically and philosophically. Or maybe
you just want to meet in the Middle. This hour
we're asking what do you think the federal government should
be doing about immigration and order security? Tolliver, what is
(13:01):
that number to call it?
Speaker 2 (13:02):
It's eight four four four Middle. That's eight four four
four six four three three five three. You can also
write to us that listen to the Middle dot com
or on social media.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
We're joined by Laredo, Texas Mayor Victor Travino and Mary Sanchez,
senior reporter at Kansas City PBS and a columnists for
Tribune Media. Mary Sanchez, we talked about all the migrants
who have been sent to some of the big cities
in this country, like New York, Chicago, Denver, many of
whom are living in shelters supported by local taxpayers. Is
it realistic to allow the migrants who are here in
(13:34):
those cities to work legally in the US while they
wait for the immigration or asylum process to play out.
That's what the Biden administration just did with many Venezuelans
who are living in the United States.
Speaker 5 (13:47):
Yes, I would say it not only is possible feasible,
it needs to happen. I mean, people need to be
able to support themselves, they need to be processed. This
is all you know, wrote a column early on when
they first started that little scheme, and it was a
scheme to just throw people on buses and try and make,
you know, democratic led cities look bad. The people want
(14:10):
to go to cities where they have family, they want
to work. In a way, that was kind of true.
It kind of helped them get there, but it wasn't
done in coordination with the federal government. If it was
done in a coordinated way, if everyone was processed and checked,
that would be a good thing. That is how immigration
(14:30):
is supposed to work. But instead the Texas governor, Governor
Abbott started doing it as a political little ploy that
he could talk about and that it's offensive to those migrants,
you know, refugees as you know that's a legal status.
But I totally agree with the mayor in his assessment
of who the people are. They're incredibly desperate. They've gone
(14:53):
through hell and back just to get here. That doesn't
mean that they necessarily everyone should you would be allowed
to stay, but we can do the processes so that yes,
it could happen and you could help them. We had
some of the buses come through here and there was done.
It was done a little undercover, but we had some
(15:15):
support groups here in a church. Frankly, yeah, and some
immigration attorneys that met with them overnight, fed them, allowed
cared for people, and then kind of helped them get
on their way.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
That has shared us. The border is everywhere, absolutely, and
we've also seen, as you say, the kindness of people
is everywhere. But that being said, you know the cost
is going up. Denver spending apparently two million dollars a
week sheltering migrants. In New York has spent more than
one point seven billions so far, Chicago three hundred and
twenty million. So it is stressing a lot of these places.
(15:50):
Let's go to another call. Who is in Houston, Texas?
ROMY is joining us, Romy, Welcome to the middle What
do you think the US government should do about immigration?
Speaker 12 (16:00):
I have no question the United States government needs complete
the wall, need to keep the illegal aliens out of
this nation. We don't know what kind of diseases these
people carrying, who don't know what they're doing. Anybody can
say they're fleeing violence. They found the Hundas on the chair.
Watching this, You'll know if hunters who with the same
claiming they were fleeing violence, they were part of the
(16:21):
Mexican drug cartail, so anybody can put their stir together
at the border. America is not the dumping ground for
in the ingredients.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Let me take you that call, Mayor Travino. I'm sure
in the state of Texas. Maybe not right where you
are in Laredo, but in the state of Texas, you've
heard that view. What do you say to people when
they say that build the wall.
Speaker 9 (16:42):
Yeah, like I said, As someone that was born and
raised in the border and a local doctor has practiced
on both sides of the river, I see some unvarnished
realities of humanity, human beings looking for work in better life,
and it always disappoints me to hear proposals that have
no context are based on nativism, especially for people that
do not live here. Proposal like sending active US military
(17:05):
deals with cartels or creating citizen malicious to guard border
would not work and the end of these proposal will
only local public support. It will damage your relationship whether
our partner in Mexico, and would also have opposite impact
by further incentivizing drug cartels to charge more for human
trafficking and high demand drugs that are being smuggled into
(17:28):
the United States.
Speaker 5 (17:30):
That's one of the things here just to point out is,
you know, there's a lot of terms, and I understand
how they get used, but you really can't close though.
I always want to say, what do people mean by
close the border? It's not like it's a door. There
are places where a wall has been very effective and
(17:51):
where walls can be effective as barriers. There's also those
ports where millions of dollars worth of goods needs to
be able to cross every single day in both directions.
The border is almost two thousand miles long. Part of
it is water, part of it is mountain range, part
of it is desert. Seventy five miles of it in
(18:14):
Arizona is sovereign.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Indian nation land.
Speaker 5 (18:17):
It's the Tahono Indian Nation Land. We don't have rights there.
They have their own border security. So when people use
those terms, I think partly they haven't literally been to
the border to know, and so that it kind of
disrupts a conversation that could be more thoughtful because they
(18:38):
simply don't know. And that's not their fault. I don't
mean that in a demeaning way to say that people
are ignorant. They literally don't know You can often tell
how little someone knows about immigration law, about the border,
about the difference between a refugee, an asylum, an immigrant
a work visa, simply by how they frame the question
(18:59):
or their comment.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Although for some people in this country, I guess what
they would need to know is that the immigrant family
that moved into their town wherever it is is willing
to work a job for less money than their kid,
or than their friend in the town or whatever, and
so it may be impacting them in that way, and
so that's what they know about it.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
They know that, or I guarantee you if if you
looked in almost the back end of any restaurant, almost
any restaurant, high low end, and my father was a
chef and he was legal, so before anyone starts any
of that, actually got his citizenship after he fought in
World War Two for this country. And that is a
(19:44):
very common story, particularly for migrants from Mexico. Anyway, if
you looked in the restaurant industry alone, it is run
by immigrant labor, and some of it is undocumented, not
because people don't want documentation, but because it's so difficult
to get it. You mentioned that the last big immigration
(20:07):
overhaul of our laws by Congress, which does control it
was in nineteen eighty six. There was a little tweak
in ninety two. That's a long time ago. The world
has changed, our demographic needs have changed. We need more labor.
There's the baby boomers are aging out. We don't have
enough labor.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Let's go to another call. Tina is with us from Tampa, Florida. Tina,
welcome to the middle Go ahead.
Speaker 13 (20:34):
Hello, very nice to get to speak to you real quick.
I don't understand this thing about making the immigrants the enemy.
I come from immigrant family. Immigrants are valuable assets to
our country. And what we really need is an entry
way the same way we had Elis Island, where people
(20:55):
can be processed. We can find out who they are,
we can assign them some sort of number, like a
Social Security type number, so that they can pay taxes,
and they do jobs that other people don't want to do.
The fruit is rotting over here if we don't have
people to pick it, and our people don't want to
do it. And just as soon as 'ron DeSantis provides
(21:15):
a new law, more people leave in fear to go
to some other state. I think that we just need
a process so they can come in legally and we
can know who they are, and they can have whether
you fingerprint them or whatever you do. They've entered our country,
we now have They have access to us, and we
(21:37):
have access to them, and they can provide for our country.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Tina, thank you so much for that call. Mayor Travigno.
I want to ask you just following that to its conclusion,
in order for people to be processed, there has to
be enough immigration judges and all kinds of people that
would work for the government to do that. We're very
far away from that right now, aren't we.
Speaker 9 (21:58):
Yes, we are immigration reformists, long overdue, and one of
the challenges is to remove the beliefs that the United
States is solely responsible only for border security on our
southern border, even with all the law enforcement agencies on
the border. This cannot be achieved alone United States and
needs collaboration from its principal trade partner, Mexico. Collaboration must
(22:21):
begin again with mutual respect and not finger pointing. Investing
more on resources, enjoin drug task forces, immigration policy programs
in Mexico and online. This could dramatically reduce the caravans
of immigrants. Unsuccessfully risking their lives to travel thousands miles
to reach the US border. So I think that that's
(22:43):
crucial and important.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Let's go to Isaac in Saint Paul, Minnesota. Isaac, welcome
to the middle What do you think the government should
do about immigration?
Speaker 8 (22:53):
Well, so my point is, I'm actually I was an
illegal immigrant about fifteen years ago who came to the US,
and I'm one of the fortunate that actually got the
path to citizenship. So, you know, I believe that allowing
immigrants to become citizens honors the American dream by offering
(23:15):
a chance for a better life filled with hope, hard work,
and the pursuit of happiness for everyone, including me, no
matter where where we came from.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
How did you get into the country.
Speaker 8 (23:28):
I am Ecuadorian. I I across the border like everybody else.
That was a long time ago. I you know, I
settled in Minnesota about fifteen years ago. I found my
way to a path to citizenship. Right now, I am
an IT officer working in Minnesota for one of the
(23:48):
Fortune five hundred companies, and I'm grateful, you know, And
that's why I honestly believe that it's everyone should be
given the chance. The people that are already here, my peers,
the people that are going to come because I believe
America is their maiceran dream is, you know, making immigrants
immigrants dream come true. That that's what I believe.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Let me ask you one more thing. You sound pretty young.
I mean I can't tell for sure, but you sound
pretty young. How young were you when you came across
into the United States?
Speaker 8 (24:16):
I was very I was about twelve years old when
I'm at the order with my family.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Got it, Isaac, Thank you so much for that call.
That's really really fascinating. Let me get to another one here, Noel,
who's in Poughkeepsie, New York. Noel, welcome to the middle Go.
Speaker 14 (24:31):
Ahead, thank you, Yes, thank you so much for taking
my call. I just wanted to comment on the topic
regarding immigration.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 15 (24:43):
Can you hear me, Yeah, we can hear you.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Go ahead.
Speaker 14 (24:45):
Well here's Yes, here's a couple of thoughts. I think overall,
as far as the government is concerned, I think we've
prostituted as the American citizenship or political expediency. It's been
so many years that we've been discussed this issue. We
hear about jobs, we hear about humans. The mother and
(25:05):
the child, And I think that taps into that human
emotional part of us to make us feel guilty if
we don't accept people into the country. So here's the
other point. A law is only legal when it's enforced,
and right now there is no immigration law. That's the
bottom line. I mean, however, you want to spend it
because the law is not being enforced consistently. On a
(25:28):
micro level. In my home, I have a front door
on the back door while I'm away from that home.
If someone comes into my back door while I'm gone
and help themselves to my food and to my house basically,
and I come in and find this person right now,
we're kind of saying, okay, let's just allow that person
(25:49):
to be there. Right We would not do that in
our own house, but yet we do that in the country.
We have people standing in line legitimately waiting for citizenship
to get into the country. However, we're allowing other flux
of people to come in. So I think that's sort
of the problem. We will not allowed that in our
own home either. We're going to be a country with
(26:10):
laws regarding citizenship, and I think we've lost that value
with regards to citizenship.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Well, no, Well we've got it, and thank you, thank
you so much for that call. I want to go
to Mary Sanchez on a lot of points there. But
what about that that point that you know, if you
allow people who have come in illegally, then what about
the people who have gone through the process in the
proper way.
Speaker 5 (26:34):
Well, that's the people who are showing up at the
border are doing at the southern border, actually are doing
it legally. It is illegal, it's there legal. It's an
international right even to apply for aside if they are legal.
But I hear the caller, I know what he's saying.
And here's part of the truth of how broken our
system is. Even people who are deemed in a more
(26:57):
positive light. We've been hold documentaries here on this, particularly
immigrants from India who came here on a work visa.
It's called an H one B for them to become
US citizens. The weight is more than two hundred years
now because there's a tapped out number and Congress will
(27:19):
not raise the number. These are people who are your
IT people. They're doctors, they're very highly skilled. It's for
people with a college degree and more. They generally have
even masters and much much higher degrees or much brighter
than I am, quite honestly, and it's a two hundred
year weight. They will die before they will ever be
(27:41):
able to be legal. Well, why runs out?
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Why is it? Why is it such a hard issue,
Mayor Travino for Congress to sort of everybody recognizes that
there's a problem. Why is it so hard for the
two parties to say, Okay, this is how we're going
to fix this problem.
Speaker 9 (28:00):
I guess the answer to that is political, of course,
and asylum is a legal process, and we believe in laws.
Where a country of laws, the problem is resources and reform.
Now the US is the beacon of freedom and opportunity.
Jil Laredo assigned the Declaration of emergency last year before
(28:21):
the government was about to shut down because immigration is
a federal responsibility and we're having to look at it
at a local level and struggling to be men. Now,
you can't imagine having a federal government shut down. We
would be overwhelmed. So I think these things are federal
issues and that impacts us locally, and we have to
look at this in a legal way, in a reform way,
(28:44):
and in a humanitarian way.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Tolliver, I know some comments are coming in online at
Listen to the Middle dot com.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Yeah Herald from Saint Paul says, I believe the most
important thing is for Congress to commit funds to a
comprehensive system of training immigration judges providing systems to accept
or reject asylum requests. David and Kansas City Rights. Growing
up in Orange County, California in the sixties, remembering dark
green multi family housing near the then centrus orchards and
strawberry fields, there was no border problem with Mexico. Why
(29:12):
because there was the Brassero Labor Program, under which almost
five million Mexicans were allowed to legally into the United
States and work.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Mary Sanchez briefly, the Brassero Labor program, can you just
give our listeners what that is?
Speaker 5 (29:24):
It means, it's basically it's off of it means strong arms.
It was a labor program when we needed labor and
we brought more people in. There were there were problems
with it though they were sent back without their wage,
as many of them. It took decades to settle the
lawsuits over that. But it literally was it's like work
visas basically, and it was a federal program that answered
(29:47):
somewhat of what I would argue we still need to
do is just allow people to work here more legally.
And some of it might be that was for a
temporary It was supposed to be a temporary fixed and
people came up here and they did they did the work.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
But that was in the sixties.
Speaker 5 (30:07):
That was, by the way, the sixties was it started
in the forties as right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Well stand by. A Reminder of the Middle is available
as a podcast in partnership with iHeart Podcasts on the
iHeart app, art app, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
So Jeremy, we heard earlier about President Reagan and an
immigration act in eighty six. Now listen to former President
Bill Clinton and how he talked about immigration during his
State of the Union address in nineteen ninety five.
Speaker 16 (30:30):
We are a nation of immigrants, but we are also
a nation of laws. It is wrong and ultimately self
defeating for a nation of immigrants to permit the kind
of abuse of our immigration laws we have seen in
recent years, and we must do more to stop them.
Speaker 15 (30:48):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Times have changed absolutely.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
I want to remind you all to rate the podcast.
Wherever you listen to podcasts, hit us with those five stars.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Yes, come on and we will be right back after.
This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. We're talking about
immigration and the US Mexico border. What do you think
the federal government should be doing about it? You can
call us at eight four four for Middle. That's eight
four four four six four three three five three. You
can also reach out to us at listen toothm middle
(31:16):
dot com. Let's go to Chi in Boise, Idaho. Chi,
Welcome to the Middle.
Speaker 17 (31:20):
Go ahead, well, hello, in Idaho. We have at least
three different industries, whole industries who are completely dependent on
immigrant labor, and with the borders closed, even with all
(31:41):
the different slowdowns, it's really really hurt labor here in Idaho,
and some of these industries as the only people that
they can hire, and so immigration, however it happens, is
essential for the state of Idaho.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Do your fellow Idahoans agree with you that the only
way for these industries to work is with immigrant labor.
Speaker 17 (32:09):
It is with the people who are in those industries.
There's absolutely nobody else to hire. There's such a labor
shortage here that restaurants close because we don't have people
to staff them and stores close. We have a real
problem with labor right here and so on these major
industries within agriculture, dairy, meatpacking, and a couple others, they're
(32:38):
almost one hundred percent immigrant labor.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Chief. Thank you so much for that call, Mary Sanchez.
It's interesting to me that there aren't any politicians on
any side of any aisle who are making the case
that we've got to have more immigrants coming in because
our labor force requires it.
Speaker 5 (32:58):
You hear it every now and then, and actually, I
think when they're not on making a stump speech, when
they're not trying to get through a primary, you'll hear
it in more honest conversation, and frankly from both you know, Democrats, Republicans, independents,
people who you know, start looking at our economy and
(33:19):
really looking at numbers and looking at labor force issues,
they will wind up with that truth and that reality
is that we don't have enough people in our labor market.
It's just it's a demographics. If you look at the
baby boomers alone, we're nearing closer to where Europe already is.
(33:39):
Asia is as well. Whenever you have more people over
the age of sixty five than you do under the
age of five. You're lopsided on your economy and we're
going to get there really quickly, and that's a problem.
So that's why we need to we be in Congress
and the American public behind them get about, you know,
(34:00):
raising visa limits, creating the processes. Someone actually mentioned the
immigration courts. They're so overloaded.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Right now.
Speaker 5 (34:08):
We've got one here. It's on the fourth floor of
a building really close to here. It's a law office,
and you know there are attorneys that know just don't
even show up immigration attorneys because they're so backlogged they'll
never hear their case.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Let's go to Perry in Oconto, Wisconsin. Perry, welcome to
the middle. What do you think the government should do
about immigration?
Speaker 18 (34:31):
Yes, I think a lot of it's just a political
issue that keeps the electric inflame. Because in the past,
I'm sixty years old, people could travel back and forth.
They didn't need to bring their whole family because they
could go back home, bring the money back, and then
(34:53):
come back and work. And so I think a lot
of it is the politicians, especially the Republic, trying to
make this a wedge issue.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Perry, Thank you very much. Victor Travino. It brings up
a question of how things have changed over time. Are
we really seeing that many more people? I mean, we
talked about apprehensions being at a record, but are we
really seeing that many more people overall compared to our
population coming into the United States now?
Speaker 9 (35:24):
But I think we've seen these recent waves and surges
of immigrants coming from South America. We hadn't seen that
amount of waves coming in before. But we can see
going back to the point that immigrants are needed in
this country, the birth of people here in the country
are doing linking. Families are not having any more children
(35:46):
or having one or two, so the workforce is depleted.
So what are we going to do without immigrants? And
as it is, the United States was built on the
efforts on the backs of immigrants. This is a country
of immigrant. So we have to look at reality and
we have to put politics aside. One of the things
that people might be afraid of some politicians say is
(36:09):
how the immigrants are going to are going to vote?
Speaker 8 (36:12):
If they?
Speaker 9 (36:12):
If they?
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Uh, let's go to Hector, who is in Boston, Massachusetts. Hector,
welcome to the middle A good evening, Jeremy, good evening.
Speaker 19 (36:24):
Go ahead, Okay, My response is going to be brief
and simple. Immigration is not a problem. Politicians make it
a problem. We've had immigration since the first of the nation.
We're going to continue to have immigration. Uh. The resolution
will be quite simple. A lot of people will not
want to leave their families. They do so out of
(36:45):
necessity or for other issues. If we were to create
something like the Marshall Plan, which we did in Europe
ultimately became the EU and a very strong allies are now,
it will be a lot cheaper. We would build up
the economies of Latin American countries. There will be more
ampty stay in their countries and are knockdown the inflow
of immigration. The vast majority of these people are not
(37:07):
terrorists or no problems, despite what other people may say,
because the proof is there. If so many immigrants are
coming in, why aren't we under attack like a nine eleven.
I mean, politicians keep this alive because they garner the votes,
and that's the only reason that they keep this away alive.
And let's build this up, and let's build that up.
(37:28):
That's not going to work. It has to begin at home.
It has to begin at their home and it will
pay off even if we spend billions of dollars now,
it will be trilling the dollars that we will say
down the line.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Hector, thank you so much. Mary Sanchez. A Marshall plan
for Latin America. I mean this has been talked about,
certainly since President Biden came into office, of trying to
spend more money in some of the countries where a
lot of people are coming from to make them safer
and make people want to stay there. But it hasn't
worked yet.
Speaker 20 (38:01):
No.
Speaker 5 (38:02):
I mean the caller makes a lot of really good points,
and actually I want to say it is called something
like a Marshall is in the name of some of
our federal government reach outs to other countries. Part of
what is affecting you know the mayor at the Southern border,
is that we are there's a huge global disruption. You know,
(38:23):
there are more migrants now in the world globally because
of so many things, because of war, because of famine, drought,
climate change. You just saw what happened in Ecuador this week.
I mean that's involves drug cartels, horrific.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
You know violence.
Speaker 5 (38:45):
We're of impacted by that. We are part of the
global migration that is occurring so that's very true, you know.
And at the same time it was also true, as
another caller said, is that people did used to come
back and forth across the border much more openly. But
(39:07):
the patterns have always been kind of the same generally.
You know, a man might come up here first and
work for a bit, send money back. He'll go back
and forth, get more settled here. Perhaps you'll meet someone Mary,
have children, and then start establishing more roots, and then
more family will come. We need to have our processes
(39:27):
to allow that to occur legally, that's all we're saying.
We have that now, but not to the extent that
we need given everything that is occurring in the world.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Let's go to Jane in Wyoming. Jan Jeane, you're there, Yes,
I am here, go ahead, you're on the air.
Speaker 15 (39:49):
Well.
Speaker 20 (39:49):
First of all, I have five really good issues, but
she told me I could only.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Meet Yeah, just pick one. How about that?
Speaker 20 (39:57):
So so every country they every country is representative and
controlled by dictatorships, including the United States at the moment,
if all those dictators were removed from office and replaced
from good, decent, honest political representatives, that would provide life, liberty,
(40:21):
and the pursuit of happiness to citizens of every country,
including the United States. Then there wouldn't then these people
would want to stay in their own countries and they
wouldn't want to have to cross the border to come
over here. The think they're going to get in a
better life, because a better life than the United States
does not exist.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Okay, Well, so no dictators and just to be just
to be very clear where we don't have a dictator
as president of this country. Right now, let's go to
Christina in Sarasota, Florida. Christina, You've got a question.
Speaker 4 (40:56):
I do.
Speaker 8 (40:56):
Can you hear me?
Speaker 4 (40:57):
Yeah, go ahead, fantastic, Yes, I wanted to pose a
question for your guests on the air this evening. Earlier,
you shared that you know, the average American doesn't fully
understand what's happening at the border, and I think there's
some truth to that. I have to admit. You know,
I've lived I'm almost fifty, I've lived in United States.
(41:18):
My mom's an immigrant. I believe in immigration. I guess
my question is what's going on at the border right
now feels different to me. And what I can't seem
to nail down is why, what is the complexity that's
happening at the border right now, that there's just this
massive influx of immigrants, and you know, I can never
seem to get an answer to that, and I'm hoping
(41:38):
those that are on your on your you know show
this evening could maybe shed some light because they're they're
in that area and I do not know fully what's
taking place.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Great, great question, Christina, Thank you, mayor Trevigno. It does
feel different. Does it feel different to you or how
would you respond to Christina?
Speaker 9 (41:58):
Yes, we see that these recent immigration wasts have been
different than before. There's a lot of factors to this,
and the United States have been already influenced by coyotes,
human traffickers, and cartels, people that make money from moving
people or human trafficking or even charging the immigrants to
(42:22):
come over. So this is basically I think has become
a business for them also, So that's one of the factors.
The other factors that they're fleeing from treachery and robbery
and all that that happens in their country and a
better way of life. So we understand that, like I said, initially,
immigrants are right now refugees and it's a little bit different.
(42:46):
So that also is another factor why we're having more ways.
Speaker 15 (42:49):
Now.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Hi, Mary Sanchez, this is your trustee, DJ Tolliver. In
my home city of Chicago. Brandon Johnson, the mayor, has
taken a shellacking for the way he's handled the margareant crisis.
Wanted to known Kansas City. How risk is it for
a politician to be sort of pro migrant in this environment.
Speaker 5 (43:07):
Well, it's more to the state, well, actually Kansas City,
Kansas as well. Where I am right now, I'm in
Kansas City, Missouri. But I could literally take off running
and end up but well I'd have to run pretty fast.
But the study line is really close. We are a
too state, a bistate Missouri in Kansas region, Kansas City,
(43:28):
Kansas passed within their city. It's a unified government like Indianapolis.
A welcoming like welcoming law is basically trying to be
more welcoming to migrants. Immigrants, they're the most diverse portion
of the greater Kansas City area. There was a backlash
(43:48):
immediately through the Kansas State legislature, so it can become
very political very quickly. Unfortunately, that is the backs of immigrants.
It's very unfair, but yes, it can.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
We're getting some comments in online. Paul writes, much of
the conversation about immigration is emotionally fueled instead of what's
the best think strategic wall building is in some places,
I think an electronic wall needs to be expanded in
some places. Meritravino, what about that. We've been hearing about
that for years. Well, you know, we don't need to
build a real wall because you could just have technology.
(44:26):
But it hasn't been really done yet, has it.
Speaker 9 (44:29):
Yes, we need border security, absolutely, and border physical walls
are not needed in some places, like in our stay
in Ledo, Texas, we have the least immigrated legal immigration crossings.
But there's some places that are by themselves, there's no
cities nearby that those could probably benefit from a physical wall.
(44:51):
So it is depending on the area. But absolutely border
security is a musk.
Speaker 15 (44:57):
I agree with that.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
Let's get one more call in Darien is in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
Hy Darien, Welcome to the middle Go ahead.
Speaker 15 (45:06):
Hello, my name is are Darian Edos people, and I'm
against illegal immigration because illegal immigration is a slap in
the face to all immigrants who are trying to get
here legally. And I'm not against legal immigration. I'm against
illegal immigration. When so many illegal immigrants are allowed to
(45:29):
run across the US border'n you're gonna have so many people,
You're gonna have people from other countries to clog up
US government assets or from Texas local government assets, Louisiana
local government assets. When you're housing so many illegal immigrants
(45:51):
to how can you stop it? You can stop it
by sending everybody back home as soon as they get here.
Or the US government can put tariffs on goods coming
from Mexico or Honduras or Guatemala, you know, or whatever.
You can put terrorifts on tariffs on goods coming from
those countries for those countries to do something to how
(46:14):
can you let so many people run from run through
the country of Mexico, run through the whatever country is
on the other border of Mexico. How can the Mexican
government let all those people travel through their country. I
guess they say, hey, it's not our problem that them
go is going to be their problem, all.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
Right, Darien, We've got it there. Mary Sanchez, just briefly
a response to that, because that is a view that
is common in a lot of the United States.
Speaker 5 (46:40):
Yeah, well, one thing, and the mayor spoken to this
is that it is our relationship with Mexico and other
countries that is very much involved, and we do work
with as a nation with Mexico about how they manage
migrants coming up through from their country to reach us.
So that is part of it. The other thing is
we do do port. We deport all the time. I
(47:02):
haven't checked lately, but there used to be a plane
that would go out of kCi, Kansas City every Friday
at noon that was just full. It was deporties. So
the idea that no one is being shoved out.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
Right is not right, not correct. We do have time
before we wrap up this hour for a quiz tolliver
for our guests.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
Absolutely so. According to Pugh, between twenty seventeen and twenty
twenty one, two states on uptick and unauthorized immigrants.
Speaker 15 (47:29):
If you can name.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
One of them, you get a mug from the middle. Okay,
you can jump in whenever you're ready.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
Either of you have a guest on that probably Texas, Texas.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
It was Washington and Florida.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
Washington and Florida. Ok. Wow, very entering, get you you know, well,
what a fascinating conversation. Really amazing calls, and you've both
been wonderful. A Mayor Victor Travigno in Laredo, Texas, thank
you so much for joining us. Thank you for having
me and Mary sam And, says senior correspondent at Kansas
City PBS and columnists for Tribune Media. Thanks to you
(48:04):
as well. Thank you and Tolliver. What do we have
on tap for next week?
Speaker 2 (48:08):
Next week, we're talking about China and its relationship with
the United States.
Speaker 1 (48:12):
It is already a big topic in this election. Everybody
wants to show how tough they are on China, but
also it is the second largest economy in the world,
a growing military power, and of course there are concerns
about what may happen with Taiwan and what the US
would do if China used military force to take Taiwan.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
Yes, so call us with your questions and comments at
eight four four four six four three three five three
or right in at listen toothe Middle dot com. And
while you're there, sign up for our weekly newsletter.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
The Middle is brought to you by Longnook Media, distributed
by Illinois Public Media in Urbana, Illinois, and produced by
Joe Anne Jennings, Harrison Patino, John Barth and Danny Alexander.
Our technical director is Jason Kroft. Our theme music was
composed by Andrew Haig. Thanks also to Nashville Public Radio, iHeartMedia,
and the more than three hundred and eighty public radio
stations around the country that are making it possible for
(48:58):
people across the country to li sen to the Middle.
I'm Jeremy Hobson. Talk to you next week.
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