May 3, 2022 • 30 mins
Devotional artist Genesis Tramaine is painting some of the most striking portraits of our time. She talks to Roxane about her process and her practice, and how her faith informs it all. Also, Roxane reflects on her own religious upbringing.
Mentions:
● Recent Gallery Show https://www.alminerech.com/artists/5928-genesis-tramaine
● Genesis Tramaine’s Instagram Page https://www.instagram.com/genesistramaine
Credits: Curtis Fox is the producer. Our researcher is Yessenia Moreno. Production help from Kaitlyn Adams and Meg Pillow. Theme music by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Sugiura.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
In Los Angeles. I have a big tree in my backyard.
I'm not really a nature person. My wife is the gardener,
so I can't tell you what kind of tree it
actually is, but I can tell you that it is beautiful,
and it was one of the main reasons I ended
up buying this house. It shades the entire space with
these sprawling arcs of branch, and there's this canopy of
(00:23):
green once the tree comes into its full bloom. Every year,
my wife has hung a bird feeder, so when the
feeder is full, I have to tell you that tree
is the hottest spot on the block. And every night,
as the sun sets, the tree illuminates. Because when I
first moved in, I had it wrapped in sparkly lights.
There are lights also strung over the seating areas, and
(00:45):
when everything is lit up, it feels like a small, private,
perfect dream. What I'm saying is that if there's something
whimsical that you want to do in your home, something
small just for you and your family, absolutely do it.
Do not hesitate for a single moment. I have those
swakily lights, the lightning, no matter what kind of mood
I'm in, and it's really the best investment I've ever
(01:07):
made in my mental health. From Luminary. This is the
Roxanne Gay Agenda, the Bad Feminist podcast of your Dreams.
I am Roxanne Gay, your favorite bad feminist. On the
Roxanne Gay Agenda, I talked about something that's on my mind,
and then I talked with someone who is interesting to
(01:28):
find out what's on theirs. On this week's agenda. Growing
up Catholic. I grew up Roman Catholic and a fairly
religious family. So it was church every Sunday, Catechism every Monday.
I never really understood why, but I did it because
that's what good Haitian girls do. I experienced all the rituals, Baptism, confirmation,
(01:51):
and so on. First Communion, I sat through countless masses,
mostly daydreaming, because that's what felt like the most appropriate
thing to do with my time. I enjoyed reading the Bible,
which I have to tell you contain some really great stories.
And I grew up understanding that God was a God
of love, which was a real gift given that so
(02:12):
many people who have been raised in religious families were
raised believing in a wrathful God. When I got older
and no longer had to go to church. I stopped
going unless it was one of those major holidays and
my parents asked me to go. Mostly I had lost
what little faith I ever had. Trauma can do that
to you. Sometimes you experience something so terrible it's hard
(02:34):
to believe in much of anything at all. One thing
I've always envied is people who seem to have an
ease with faith, people who believe truly, passionately, and are
able to live their lives in a way that reflect
their faith. As I've gotten older, I have tried to
make the distinction between religious institutions, which especially in the
(02:58):
Catholic Church or in credibly problematic, and faith and spirituality
and having a personal relationship with some kind of higher power.
I navigate that divide between religion and spirituality as best
I can, and I tried to connect to faith every
single day, even if I find it really elusive. Last year,
(03:24):
I attended the Armory Show in the Javits Center in
New York. It's a large art fair with lots of
gallery exhibitions all in one place. As you might imagine,
the Javits Center is fucking massive, so there was a
lot of walking everywhere. After a couple hours, I was
tired and so was my friend. Run to Gerard with
whom I see a lot of art, and I decided
(03:45):
to take a break. So we found this lounge where
we could sit down, have some refreshment, rest our feet. Now.
One of the installations we saw during our perambulations were
these fascinating abstract figures. I couldn't get a Gallerius to
tell me anything about the pieces, but I did note
the artist's aims. So imagine my surprise when she and
a few friends came up to me in that lounge
sharing their enthusiasm from my work. That artist was Genesis Tremaine.
(04:12):
Genesis Tremaine is a devotional artist. She almost exclusively does portraits. Stylistically,
I would say that her work evokes nineteen eighties New
York art, maybe the influence of Jean Michel Basciats and Picasso,
but truly it must be said that her work is
distinctly her own. It is suffused with the power of
divine intervention and immense talent. Tremaine once described the paintings
(04:35):
in an exhibition as gospel songs, and when you look
on them, you can hear something some kind of higher
power suffused throughout the work. Now, Genesis is having a moment,
as they say. Over the course of her career, she
has exhibited her work in Paris, Brussels, Shanghai, and New York.
In she had her first solo show, Parables of Nana,
(04:57):
at the almine Wreck Gallery in London. Her cur a
show Break of Day can be seen at almine Wreck
in New York until April. Every conversation with her becomes
a fascinating journey into the mind of one of the boldest,
most exciting artists working today. So, Genesis Tremaine, welcome to
the Roxanne Gay Agenda. Hello, thank you so much. I
(05:18):
appreciate that would welcome. Thank you. How are you doing
this morning? I feel I feel good, I feel blessed,
I feel very very present. I'm very excited, of course
to to engage in a chat with you. Likewise. Likewise, now,
I know from a previous conversation that you were once
a full time maths teacher in New York schools. What
(05:39):
did teaching teach you? Because I, as a teacher myself,
I find that I learned something every day from my students. Absolutely, um,
I was blessed to teach for close to ten years
in New York City and in parts of New York,
New Jersey. I continue to serve as an educator as
often as I can throughout my practice. It's always been
(06:00):
important to incorporate servitude. It's just just the primary tone
of my life. I had a wonderful time doing it.
My students taught me everything for you know, from style
to to patients lessons to to how to be bold
and in a room full of people you don't know,
they taught me a lot about marketing self if you
would in a town of wolves. So I'm very, very
(06:21):
grateful to the lessons that I was able to gain
from my students, in particular my high schoolers and middle schoolers.
I do a lot of informal teaching with high schoolers.
They are fascinating, They're terrifying in many ways. They're fearless.
They are fearless. That's what I was gonna say. They
have absolutely no problem being seen, being bold, and being colorful.
(06:45):
They are a bunch of light, you know, like a
really specific type of light that I've been able to
uh chial with from time to time. One of the
things I've encountered in teaching myself is that what happens
in the classroom and in interactions with students out side
the classroom is can be challenging, but it's always enriching
and interesting, and working with administration and bureaucracy is far
(07:09):
less so. So what kinds of challenges did you encounter
having to navigate a huge, sprawling bureaucracy while also trying
to be present and authentic in the classroom. I often
led from a loud classroom, and I was a math teacher.
You know, there was a lot of painting and drawing
as a part of my instruction that wasn't necessarily immediate
(07:31):
to the curriculum that was offered. I was actually very
fortunate to work within schools that were really supportive of
my approach to the math lessons, and my students were
really receptive. But to be honest with you, a lot
of the I guess the pushback that I encountered it
was from some parents, to be honest with you, because
of my parents at the time, I rocked a really
(07:52):
short cut, and I guess some would assume anything they could,
you know, as far as a masculine tone from my frame,
and and you know I was I was told outright
a few times. You know that they didn't want their
child in my classroom, unfortunately. And so again I'm grateful
for those lessons. And you know I have since prayed
for those folks, and I prayed past those people. Um.
(08:13):
You know, God God asked that we pray for our enemies,
and I don't think that they were enemies. I just
think that I presented uh differently, How do you stand
in your truth and and hold your head high when
people want to deny your existence or criticize you for
who you are? First time, I'm very consistent with myself.
I wake up with prayer. I wake up with a
(08:35):
really really humble ask and a very very humble thank
you as humble as I can, you know, like thank
you for for being present? Uh? And then please use
me Lord, you know, how can I be of help
to someone else today? Um? And that may seem really
really like basic, but it really helps it to put
one foot in front of the other on those on
those tough days, if you would, uh. And then another thing,
(08:55):
to be honest when you was you know, I'm from Brooklyn,
you know what I mean. I'm not from a place
that that tells me to put my head down in
a face of struggle. You know, my grandmother taught me
to buck up my chest, you know what I mean.
My my mother taught me, you know, to keep my
head up, you know, regardless of what the situation calls for.
You know what I'm saying. Make sure I'm speaking up
so I can be heard, you know, speaking to the microphone,
if you would. That's something that you're taught young, when
(09:17):
you're from where I'm from, uh, and when you want
to be heard, uh and when you got something to say.
And so that's a reflection that I you know, I
pronounced and semi every day, and I think that it
is definitely something that I stand on again on those
rough days, on those days where I'm not necessarily faking it,
but I'm not necessarily at If you would now I
would not inherently see the connection between art and math,
(09:41):
or not inherently, I would not sort of on the
surface see that connection. How do you bring math and
art together, especially in the classroom, Things like geometry is
like just one of the most easiest approaches, like ways
that we we can see those types of things work together. Right,
There's a lot of there's shapes and symbols. One thing
and something else. Uh, something is parallel to its meaning
(10:04):
because of its shape or in with with art. I
can use it in the same way. In early findings
of my work, you'll find uh delta signs. Uh. It
may seem like a basic triangle shape, but it's a
It's actually a very complex shape. It's a prism, and
it could mean a stroke of something else if you would.
And then I also think that sometimes complex thinking deserves
(10:24):
a release, a color release, you know, something rhythmic, if
you would. I think offering a student something to color
on the back of a really complex problem is a
smart way to give the brain a release and to
keep the lesson fun. One of the questions I always
think about when I'm talking to creative people is when
did you first know you were creative? And how did
(10:45):
you go from there to developing your creative voice as
a painter? Sure? Um, I think that when I was little,
one of the things that became very important to me.
When I say little, I mean a young black girl.
I think one of the things that was critically important
to me was being a good girl. It meant that
I prayed every day and meant that I went to
school every day. And I was often told that I
(11:07):
was good at drawing, you know, my paintings were good.
I was, And so you do the things that you
get attention for quite frankly, uh, and then I really
I enjoy it, you know, I I've It's always been
something that I've genuinely enjoy doodling or just sketching if
you would, while I'm talking to someone, or sketching while
the school lesson is going on. I didn't realize that
(11:30):
it was an escape. I didn't necessarily use it as such,
but it was. And it was also something that I
was good at. I'm always really really grateful when someone
calls my work good because it just for me. It
means that, um, I pushed myself, I guess as far
as I could, uh to see something that makes sense
to me, uh and it makes sense to somebody else.
So it's always been something that I've worked for to
(11:51):
be good at something. How do you translate that into
the career that you have built for yourself where you
decide my work is calling to me in such a
way that I'm going to share it with the world. Well,
I to be honest with you, though I loved teaching
and I loved educating, and I didn't feel like I
was I committed to all of me. I definitely hit
(12:13):
a wall, if you would, And I found an opportunity
in Christ. And once I committed to Christ, I committed
to a belief frequency. I committed to a love frequency.
I committed to myself in a way that I hadn't
I had never, and I relied on myself in a
way that I had never. And then I began doing
the thing that I love again, painting and studying the word.
(12:35):
Painting and studying the word. Those are that's those are
the things that I love. And I committed those practices
in worship and I'm really I'm so grateful Um for
for the light that that that was cast upon me.
I knew that I could paint, you know, but I
didn't know how to. I needed help, you know, So
I just asked God for help. I literally asked God
to hold my hand during worship expression. It's a mind,
(12:58):
body and celestial space, if you would, that I aim
to access while painting. I don't know. I think that
belief is very very important, and I think fervent prayer
is very very important, and so my daily my daily
commitment to those practices have have helped to expand the
process of painting. One of the things I found in
(13:18):
the art world is that it's not necessarily a bastion
of spirituality. It's quite secular. Have you ever been worried
about how your art and your process would be received
in traditional art spaces. No, because I pray with expectation.
I think when you're good, that people recognize that you're good.
We just spoke about that. I pray for that recognition.
(13:41):
God has told me that there's a place for me
in this world. God has told me that there's a
place for the work, and that the work is necessary.
I don't think that it's always an immediate understanding as
to why our Genesis Tramaine work is appreciated, but I'm
grateful that it is. I think that attraction is something
that can sometimes be explained, and I think some times
it can't be. I'm aiming to be honest with you,
(14:03):
to disrupt a lot of what what is normally associated
with quote unquote religious art, like what I don't agree
with the ways our saints are are portrayed. I think
that there's far too much focus on race. I think
that that is an immediate distraction to their narrative and
(14:25):
to the strength of their their their prose. I often
think that there's also too much focused on gender. I
read the word a lot, and it's not so much
that it's not president, it's just not the focus of
the narrative. And I think that as we grow as
a people, it's important that we we we look at
all of it, and color allows us to to to
like paint the entire span of it, if you would. So,
(14:47):
I just think I'm really bored with the race conversation
around religion because it's because God is big, you know,
God is a why I often say this, Miss Roxanne,
I don't know where I am necessarily, but I know
that I'm safe during worse ship, if you would, And
I'm grateful. I'm very grateful if I come out of
that practice with the painting. But most times it's just
(15:07):
it's just another layer of myself that I've got to
I get to uncover. I know that you painted Break
of Dawn, if I'm understanding it correctly, in a church.
I painted Break of Dawn from the garage and in
my new home, uh and I but during the pandemic,
I was able to paint from my church often because
(15:28):
it wasn't occupied and my my my church body and
church family were very very kind to lend that space
to me to pray and worship from us. So I
was able to like do a lot of smaller studies
from that space. Um it's it's very very very important,
I think too. Um So like pray where you feel
(15:49):
good at. I think it's important to to find your
prayer closet. I think it's important to find your space,
your space of safety to pray from. And for me,
it's been that church, and so I wanted to back
to consistency. I really kind of pushed to be present
in the space where I felt most safe during the pandemic,
and it was in that church. I love that. You know,
(16:10):
I'm always curious when people find that church home. How
do you find a church home? And like, how did
you know that this church, this was going to be
your church family? Because that's a big decision. Yes, because
Mrs Roxana, you know, everybody ain't your friend when you're
walking to church. You know, now I might put on
my best I didn't put on my Sunday's finest. Okay,
I'm ironed up my waves on top. Feel good, my
(16:33):
crown feels good. I smell delicious. I have my word ready, okay,
opinion in case I need to write something. I even
have a highlight of. But the reality is every church
that I've walked into is not has not welcomed me
with open arms. Unfortunately, my walk thus fall has allowed
me spaces where I've had to revisit to pray for
(16:56):
because I've not been welcomed so graciously. My wife and
I had counted tons of experiences where we've been called
out on pews unfortunately due to our queer quote unquote
uh perceived appearances, if you would, uh, and so we
have not always felt most safe in the churches that
we've been invited into. To be honest with you, So
a part of the walk and finding a home church
(17:19):
for me has been walking into spaces that are not
necessarily friendly. If I'm looking for anything else, I'll go
again and again. So you know, my home church and
your fellowship, if you would, is something that I I
just I community it was. It was something that was
really really dire for me to find, and so I
kept pushing for that, uh, down to like google searches,
(17:40):
you know, and using all that's around me asking my friends,
you know, being unafraid to say out loud that I
was looking for a church, family, uh and and and
those things began to pronounce those themselves. I realized that
a lot of my community that I was looking for
was right under my nose. I just had to be
honest out loud about who I am uh and you know,
(18:02):
and again how I can be of greater help right
so to that community. So that's how I found my
home church. That's amazing that you like stated your intentions
and stated what you were looking for, which I think
not we don't do often enough, especially I think it's
black queer women, because I don't think I think, at
least for me, I have often not anymore as much,
(18:23):
But earlier in my life I did not know that
anyone would be there listening right and ready to receive
sort of what I was needing or looking for. And
so I love that you were able to state that
intention and that that desire. So you mentioned earlier that
services part of your tithing and your faith. What does
(18:43):
service look like in terms of the art that you
put into the world and the ways that you interact
with your communities? Sure, Um, there are plenty of you
mentioned the art fair earlier where you were where you
saw St. Boaz and a couple other portraits that were there. UM.
I try my best to be present for a lot
(19:03):
of the shows or fairs that my work is is
a part of, so that I can meet and interface
with UH folks who you know, who appreciate the work.
I like to shake hands and give hugs to people
who Some people approach me in need of prayers. Some
people ask me via email or online or you know,
DM me asking that I pray with them. That's an
(19:25):
active service. UM that I'm very I'm always very grateful
to be called into UH. There are still student spaces
that I get to speak at their speaking engagements where
I get to speak from So you know, I can't
teach day to day the way I once did, but
as often as I can, I do volunteer. When you're
ready to make a new painting, what does that process
(19:46):
look like? When you go to your creative space your
studio and are ready or hope to be ready. I
usually like some instance, you know, I I turned up
my gospel. You know, I make sure the windows open.
I keep a lot of water around I paint primarily
on my knees because I pray on my knees. I've
(20:08):
set my stage, you know, Mr. Rock saying, I make
sure that i'm you know, I'm living in charge. You know.
I make sure that the Holy Spirit has room to
to to feel welcomed. If you would, everything is clean.
It's important to me to have a clean space. My
paint is ultimately my my my color palette is is set.
If you would, Uh, it's a it's a it's a
(20:29):
cool vibe. It's a smooth vibe, if you would. I
feel comfortable. Ultimately. I'm usually in something comfortable, sweats or
some type of linen, something soft. I don't like candles
or anything like that. I'm scared of ship like that.
Like I can't do nothing like that. I'd mean, I
didn't burn myself up, but I don't do nothing like
cool like that. Now, the campus is bigger than me, Ms.
(20:52):
Rock saying, So there's a lot that I put down
to hold the campus down in one place, so it's
not slotting while I'm dancing across it and prayer if
you will it and then I you know, I pray
until the Holy Spirit to be present. I think that's
ultimately very very important. I use my human frequency to
access a fervent prayer, which which helps me to to
to gain further access to a birthing frequency, if you would,
(21:17):
I'm really really reliant on my belief. I'm reliant on
my ability to let go. Everything that I need physically
is in place. Uh So I can let go physically.
I can close my eyes and let go, if you would.
I can let my hands do the walking, the talking,
and I can close my eyes and let God be God.
It's a very childlike space for me. Miss so I'm saying,
(21:37):
it's like being in a in a jungle gym. I
know where every slot is, I know how every swing works.
You know. I know where the music is. I know
where my friends are. I'm sitting in vision, I'm sitting
in circle, I'm sitting in in song. I'm in a
very very familiar place. Everything smells good, there's food there
if I need it. And then I come out of
(21:59):
that breath someti times, and and there's a there's a
portrait as we would describe it, but for me, it
was it was like sitting in a gospel song. It
was like sitting on Nana's lap. You know, it felt like, um,
the last time my mom hugged me. It's a hunger
if you would that, um, the food that we put
into our mouths can't really occupy. It's something that I
(22:20):
have to drink a lot of water to exist in.
And again, there's a lot of belief that's a part
of the let go uh to get to that playground.
Do you always appreciate what you see when you're done,
when you think, okay, this portrait is where I wanted
to be, do you are you always happy with it?
(22:41):
Do you sometimes go back revised artistically? Yeah? No, I'm
very critical of my selfness rocks and you know, back
to that being a good girl, you know, in order
my mom my mom is tough, honey, you know my
grandmama is tough. That those are those are those are
not easy people to press. Those are my first gods,
(23:01):
you know what I mean. Those are the first people
that I, uh that said, hey, that's good or that's not.
Those are also the first people that I found most
beautiful in my life, whose reflections I aim to push
into my little black and white note book when I
was trying to, you know, retrace my epity magazines and
things like that. I was really tracing, tracing that stroke
of beauty, right. So so no, I'm very very critical
(23:24):
of myself because I'm aiming, uh to to strike a
real real genius, if you would. So there's lots of editing,
I guess, there's there's lots of um self reflection. There's
lots of mistakes, there's there's there are lots I trip
on pain all the time. I'm grateful, So I'm grateful.
I'm grateful. I'm grateful. I'm grateful. I'm Grateful'm grateful, and
(23:44):
then you know, there's a let go. You know, sometimes
it's it's a formula that feels like I can calculate
and then back to that love frequency, it's larger, it's
it's bigger, uh, And it's just something I want to
swim in and I don't necessarily want to explain it.
So maybe for that painting there's less editing. I'm just
grateful for the presence across the work. And I've gotten
(24:04):
really comfortable with that presence, if you would like, with
calling on that presence, and I'm I'm okay with how
odd that sounds. I'm okay with how it doesn't sound
that odd. I have to say, it doesn't sound that odd. Well,
I appreciate that, miss rock Sam. But I just mean
like sometimes I don't always have words for for that
that for how that that belief occupies itself in my
(24:25):
life or across the paintings. But yes, I'm I'm I'm
very critical of myself. It's it takes months before i'm
I'm willing to really really release something, and then I
usually push it back into prayer before I you know,
I let it go to the public. Um. It's also
important that I paint from a happy space, if you would.
I'm painting from a confidence space. So that's not every
(24:47):
day for me. You know, I may go into the
studio and work every day. You know, there's some sketch work,
there's some prayer work, there's some reading over the word
that I can do. But the painting, you know, it's
really important that I that I'm physically in a in
a I'm physically in a good space. That's critically important.
How do you know when a piece is ready when
you just know, okay, this is done well, when you're
(25:09):
in the kitchen, When when Nana in the kitchen and
she cooking and she just closes the pot and she
stepped away. It's it's it's a specific dance. She don't
look back, she don't she don't ask you how it tastes.
You know, all that all that ship is a myth.
You know. She don't bring up spoon to you and
not your tasted. That's bullshit. When Nanna finishing the kitchen,
she said, all right, y'all, let's pray. That's how, that's how,
(25:31):
that's how you know the fool ready and so that's
the that's the that's the finishing. Uh. Feeling that I
that I aim to to to feel over the canvas.
It's very similar Mr Rock saying, I know it smells
good everything. Um. You know, it's like standing over a
fresh pana mac and cheese. You know, it's it's the
way it's supposed to be. It's the way I remember
(25:52):
it being. If you would, I stand up straight because
because because I know it's good, but it smells good.
Ship the dance is done um. To me as a
Black American woman, I've been blessed with an immediate style,
honey and immediate Uh. I know how to get to
get down and you know, I know how to get dressed.
You know, I know how to do this culture thing
(26:13):
that's innate to me. So of course I know when
something is done because I've I've been taught to recognize
that that quote unquote done feeling. It's a confidence. But
in in in art terms, I would say it's it's
when the work is at its greatest point of balance.
It's interesting because for writing it's much the same way.
I can't give you specific parameters. I just know when
(26:36):
I know, and it is what it is. And you know,
it may be elusive getting to that place, but I
do know it when I'm there. So as artists, we
inevitably have to interact with a market in order to
sustain ourselves financially. But how do you handle the business
of making art? There's a portion in the world when
(26:56):
when Jesus said, pay his tag, just pay the tax
And I remember were talking to a particular but he said, listen,
if we owe taxes, pay the taxes. You know what
I'm saying. So I take that into my business, you know,
I take that into my day to day. Uh. Being
humans is a wonderful, wonderful gift. But I got to
pay the taxes. Mr tack saying, you know, I'm learning
every single day how to be a better businesswoman in
(27:19):
the art world. Um. It's it's of critical importance, and
I wouldn't be where I am today without that. Um.
I've had to take uh steps back from the canvas.
You know. I we my wife and I refer to
them as uh, you know meeting mondays. You know what
we get down and you know, we talk about the business.
You know, we study a bit of the history, we
study a bit of the the current affairs, if you would,
(27:39):
so that we can keep up with with you know,
the flow of it, learn the language of it, and
feel comfortable in those in those rooms where I'm the
only person who looks like me. Um. So it's important
that I I work to attract a community of collectors
who believe in the legacy of my work, because ultimately,
(28:04):
I believe that the language that God has given me, uh,
like this vessel Genesis tremaine the best, you know. I
just I believe that it's something that it really will
help out tomorrow. UM. I really believe that it's it's
it's greater than me. Um and it deserves a very
very specific house, if you would, so I I work
(28:25):
to make sure that my legacy is maintained properly. And
what do you want your legacy to be? One of
a servant you know, I'm smiling bright, one that uh um,
I don't you know? One that one that is is
a giver um, one that is kind um um. I
want to be remembered for having the smallest footprints in
(28:45):
the biggest rooms. You know. I want the work to
make the loudest statements that they can, whether I'm here
or not. I want the legacy to be to work,
my use of color, line stroke, my use of God's
bull uh with regard to art, my use of sculptural
impression with regard to two D frames. I want my
(29:08):
legacy to be wrapped around my impressions of secondary color
and uh primary extension. I want to be compared to
the greats. I want to create a you know, a
sound wave that is recognized immediately at first sight. I
want to make sure that Genesis Tremaine is remembered as
a servant, you know, someone that can help others access
(29:30):
their spaces of belief and self love. Genesis Tremaine, talking
with you is always just a journey in the best
possible way. Thank you so much for coming on the
Rock Sane Gay Agenda with me today. I truly appreciate it.
Of course, thank you so much for having me. This
is exciting. Thank you, thank you, thank you. You're welcome.
(29:51):
You're welcome. You can keep up with me and the
podcast on social media on Twitter at our Day and
Instagram at Roxanne Gay seven. For our email is Roxanne
Gay Agenda at gmail dot com and we would love
to hear from you from Luminary. The Roxanne Gay Agenda
is produced by Curtis Fox. Our researchers Yes Sadia Moreno.
(30:11):
Production support is provided by Caitlin Adams and Meg Pillow.
I Roxanne Gay, your favorite bad feminist. Thank you for listening.
In Los Angeles. I have a big tree in my backyard.
I'm not really a nature person. My wife is the gardener,
so I can't tell you what kind of tree it
actually is, but I can tell you that it is beautiful,
and it was one of the main reasons I ended
up buying this house. It shades the entire space with
these sprawling arcs of branch, and there's this canopy of
(00:23):
green once the tree comes into its full bloom. Every year,
my wife has hung a bird feeder, so when the
feeder is full, I have to tell you that tree
is the hottest spot on the block. And every night,
as the sun sets, the tree illuminates. Because when I
first moved in, I had it wrapped in sparkly lights.
There are lights also strung over the seating areas, and
(00:45):
when everything is lit up, it feels like a small, private,
perfect dream. What I'm saying is that if there's something
whimsical that you want to do in your home, something
small just for you and your family, absolutely do it.
Do not hesitate for a single moment. I have those
swakily lights, the lightning, no matter what kind of mood
I'm in, and it's really the best investment I've ever
(01:07):
made in my mental health. From Luminary. This is the
Roxanne Gay Agenda, the Bad Feminist podcast of your Dreams.
I am Roxanne Gay, your favorite bad feminist. On the
Roxanne Gay Agenda, I talked about something that's on my mind,
and then I talked with someone who is interesting to
(01:28):
find out what's on theirs. On this week's agenda. Growing
up Catholic. I grew up Roman Catholic and a fairly
religious family. So it was church every Sunday, Catechism every Monday.
I never really understood why, but I did it because
that's what good Haitian girls do. I experienced all the rituals, Baptism, confirmation,
(01:51):
and so on. First Communion, I sat through countless masses,
mostly daydreaming, because that's what felt like the most appropriate
thing to do with my time. I enjoyed reading the Bible,
which I have to tell you contain some really great stories.
And I grew up understanding that God was a God
of love, which was a real gift given that so
(02:12):
many people who have been raised in religious families were
raised believing in a wrathful God. When I got older
and no longer had to go to church. I stopped
going unless it was one of those major holidays and
my parents asked me to go. Mostly I had lost
what little faith I ever had. Trauma can do that
to you. Sometimes you experience something so terrible it's hard
(02:34):
to believe in much of anything at all. One thing
I've always envied is people who seem to have an
ease with faith, people who believe truly, passionately, and are
able to live their lives in a way that reflect
their faith. As I've gotten older, I have tried to
make the distinction between religious institutions, which especially in the
(02:58):
Catholic Church or in credibly problematic, and faith and spirituality
and having a personal relationship with some kind of higher power.
I navigate that divide between religion and spirituality as best
I can, and I tried to connect to faith every
single day, even if I find it really elusive. Last year,
(03:24):
I attended the Armory Show in the Javits Center in
New York. It's a large art fair with lots of
gallery exhibitions all in one place. As you might imagine,
the Javits Center is fucking massive, so there was a
lot of walking everywhere. After a couple hours, I was
tired and so was my friend. Run to Gerard with
whom I see a lot of art, and I decided
(03:45):
to take a break. So we found this lounge where
we could sit down, have some refreshment, rest our feet. Now.
One of the installations we saw during our perambulations were
these fascinating abstract figures. I couldn't get a Gallerius to
tell me anything about the pieces, but I did note
the artist's aims. So imagine my surprise when she and
a few friends came up to me in that lounge
sharing their enthusiasm from my work. That artist was Genesis Tremaine.
(04:12):
Genesis Tremaine is a devotional artist. She almost exclusively does portraits. Stylistically,
I would say that her work evokes nineteen eighties New
York art, maybe the influence of Jean Michel Basciats and Picasso,
but truly it must be said that her work is
distinctly her own. It is suffused with the power of
divine intervention and immense talent. Tremaine once described the paintings
(04:35):
in an exhibition as gospel songs, and when you look
on them, you can hear something some kind of higher
power suffused throughout the work. Now, Genesis is having a moment,
as they say. Over the course of her career, she
has exhibited her work in Paris, Brussels, Shanghai, and New York.
In she had her first solo show, Parables of Nana,
(04:57):
at the almine Wreck Gallery in London. Her cur a
show Break of Day can be seen at almine Wreck
in New York until April. Every conversation with her becomes
a fascinating journey into the mind of one of the boldest,
most exciting artists working today. So, Genesis Tremaine, welcome to
the Roxanne Gay Agenda. Hello, thank you so much. I
(05:18):
appreciate that would welcome. Thank you. How are you doing
this morning? I feel I feel good, I feel blessed,
I feel very very present. I'm very excited, of course
to to engage in a chat with you. Likewise. Likewise, now,
I know from a previous conversation that you were once
a full time maths teacher in New York schools. What
(05:39):
did teaching teach you? Because I, as a teacher myself,
I find that I learned something every day from my students. Absolutely, um,
I was blessed to teach for close to ten years
in New York City and in parts of New York,
New Jersey. I continue to serve as an educator as
often as I can throughout my practice. It's always been
(06:00):
important to incorporate servitude. It's just just the primary tone
of my life. I had a wonderful time doing it.
My students taught me everything for you know, from style
to to patients lessons to to how to be bold
and in a room full of people you don't know,
they taught me a lot about marketing self if you
would in a town of wolves. So I'm very, very
(06:21):
grateful to the lessons that I was able to gain
from my students, in particular my high schoolers and middle schoolers.
I do a lot of informal teaching with high schoolers.
They are fascinating, They're terrifying in many ways. They're fearless.
They are fearless. That's what I was gonna say. They
have absolutely no problem being seen, being bold, and being colorful.
(06:45):
They are a bunch of light, you know, like a
really specific type of light that I've been able to
uh chial with from time to time. One of the
things I've encountered in teaching myself is that what happens
in the classroom and in interactions with students out side
the classroom is can be challenging, but it's always enriching
and interesting, and working with administration and bureaucracy is far
(07:09):
less so. So what kinds of challenges did you encounter
having to navigate a huge, sprawling bureaucracy while also trying
to be present and authentic in the classroom. I often
led from a loud classroom, and I was a math teacher.
You know, there was a lot of painting and drawing
as a part of my instruction that wasn't necessarily immediate
(07:31):
to the curriculum that was offered. I was actually very
fortunate to work within schools that were really supportive of
my approach to the math lessons, and my students were
really receptive. But to be honest with you, a lot
of the I guess the pushback that I encountered it
was from some parents, to be honest with you, because
of my parents at the time, I rocked a really
(07:52):
short cut, and I guess some would assume anything they could,
you know, as far as a masculine tone from my frame,
and and you know I was I was told outright
a few times. You know that they didn't want their
child in my classroom, unfortunately. And so again I'm grateful
for those lessons. And you know I have since prayed
for those folks, and I prayed past those people. Um.
(08:13):
You know, God God asked that we pray for our enemies,
and I don't think that they were enemies. I just
think that I presented uh differently, How do you stand
in your truth and and hold your head high when
people want to deny your existence or criticize you for
who you are? First time, I'm very consistent with myself.
I wake up with prayer. I wake up with a
(08:35):
really really humble ask and a very very humble thank
you as humble as I can, you know, like thank
you for for being present? Uh? And then please use
me Lord, you know, how can I be of help
to someone else today? Um? And that may seem really
really like basic, but it really helps it to put
one foot in front of the other on those on
those tough days, if you would, uh. And then another thing,
(08:55):
to be honest when you was you know, I'm from Brooklyn,
you know what I mean. I'm not from a place
that that tells me to put my head down in
a face of struggle. You know, my grandmother taught me
to buck up my chest, you know what I mean.
My my mother taught me, you know, to keep my
head up, you know, regardless of what the situation calls for.
You know what I'm saying. Make sure I'm speaking up
so I can be heard, you know, speaking to the microphone,
if you would. That's something that you're taught young, when
(09:17):
you're from where I'm from, uh, and when you want
to be heard, uh and when you got something to say.
And so that's a reflection that I you know, I
pronounced and semi every day, and I think that it
is definitely something that I stand on again on those
rough days, on those days where I'm not necessarily faking it,
but I'm not necessarily at If you would now I
would not inherently see the connection between art and math,
(09:41):
or not inherently, I would not sort of on the
surface see that connection. How do you bring math and
art together, especially in the classroom, Things like geometry is
like just one of the most easiest approaches, like ways
that we we can see those types of things work together. Right,
There's a lot of there's shapes and symbols. One thing
and something else. Uh, something is parallel to its meaning
(10:04):
because of its shape or in with with art. I
can use it in the same way. In early findings
of my work, you'll find uh delta signs. Uh. It
may seem like a basic triangle shape, but it's a
It's actually a very complex shape. It's a prism, and
it could mean a stroke of something else if you would.
And then I also think that sometimes complex thinking deserves
(10:24):
a release, a color release, you know, something rhythmic, if
you would. I think offering a student something to color
on the back of a really complex problem is a
smart way to give the brain a release and to
keep the lesson fun. One of the questions I always
think about when I'm talking to creative people is when
did you first know you were creative? And how did
(10:45):
you go from there to developing your creative voice as
a painter? Sure? Um, I think that when I was little,
one of the things that became very important to me.
When I say little, I mean a young black girl.
I think one of the things that was critically important
to me was being a good girl. It meant that
I prayed every day and meant that I went to
school every day. And I was often told that I
(11:07):
was good at drawing, you know, my paintings were good.
I was, And so you do the things that you
get attention for quite frankly, uh, and then I really
I enjoy it, you know, I I've It's always been
something that I've genuinely enjoy doodling or just sketching if
you would, while I'm talking to someone, or sketching while
the school lesson is going on. I didn't realize that
(11:30):
it was an escape. I didn't necessarily use it as such,
but it was. And it was also something that I
was good at. I'm always really really grateful when someone
calls my work good because it just for me. It
means that, um, I pushed myself, I guess as far
as I could, uh to see something that makes sense
to me, uh and it makes sense to somebody else.
So it's always been something that I've worked for to
(11:51):
be good at something. How do you translate that into
the career that you have built for yourself where you
decide my work is calling to me in such a
way that I'm going to share it with the world. Well,
I to be honest with you, though I loved teaching
and I loved educating, and I didn't feel like I
was I committed to all of me. I definitely hit
(12:13):
a wall, if you would, And I found an opportunity
in Christ. And once I committed to Christ, I committed
to a belief frequency. I committed to a love frequency.
I committed to myself in a way that I hadn't
I had never, and I relied on myself in a
way that I had never. And then I began doing
the thing that I love again, painting and studying the word.
(12:35):
Painting and studying the word. Those are that's those are
the things that I love. And I committed those practices
in worship and I'm really I'm so grateful Um for
for the light that that that was cast upon me.
I knew that I could paint, you know, but I
didn't know how to. I needed help, you know, So
I just asked God for help. I literally asked God
to hold my hand during worship expression. It's a mind,
(12:58):
body and celestial space, if you would, that I aim
to access while painting. I don't know. I think that
belief is very very important, and I think fervent prayer
is very very important, and so my daily my daily
commitment to those practices have have helped to expand the
process of painting. One of the things I found in
(13:18):
the art world is that it's not necessarily a bastion
of spirituality. It's quite secular. Have you ever been worried
about how your art and your process would be received
in traditional art spaces. No, because I pray with expectation.
I think when you're good, that people recognize that you're good.
We just spoke about that. I pray for that recognition.
(13:41):
God has told me that there's a place for me
in this world. God has told me that there's a
place for the work, and that the work is necessary.
I don't think that it's always an immediate understanding as
to why our Genesis Tramaine work is appreciated, but I'm
grateful that it is. I think that attraction is something
that can sometimes be explained, and I think some times
it can't be. I'm aiming to be honest with you,
(14:03):
to disrupt a lot of what what is normally associated
with quote unquote religious art, like what I don't agree
with the ways our saints are are portrayed. I think
that there's far too much focus on race. I think
that that is an immediate distraction to their narrative and
(14:25):
to the strength of their their their prose. I often
think that there's also too much focused on gender. I
read the word a lot, and it's not so much
that it's not president, it's just not the focus of
the narrative. And I think that as we grow as
a people, it's important that we we we look at
all of it, and color allows us to to to
like paint the entire span of it, if you would. So,
(14:47):
I just think I'm really bored with the race conversation
around religion because it's because God is big, you know,
God is a why I often say this, Miss Roxanne,
I don't know where I am necessarily, but I know
that I'm safe during worse ship, if you would, And
I'm grateful. I'm very grateful if I come out of
that practice with the painting. But most times it's just
(15:07):
it's just another layer of myself that I've got to
I get to uncover. I know that you painted Break
of Dawn, if I'm understanding it correctly, in a church.
I painted Break of Dawn from the garage and in
my new home, uh and I but during the pandemic,
I was able to paint from my church often because
(15:28):
it wasn't occupied and my my my church body and
church family were very very kind to lend that space
to me to pray and worship from us. So I
was able to like do a lot of smaller studies
from that space. Um it's it's very very very important,
I think too. Um So like pray where you feel
(15:49):
good at. I think it's important to to find your
prayer closet. I think it's important to find your space,
your space of safety to pray from. And for me,
it's been that church, and so I wanted to back
to consistency. I really kind of pushed to be present
in the space where I felt most safe during the pandemic,
and it was in that church. I love that. You know,
(16:10):
I'm always curious when people find that church home. How
do you find a church home? And like, how did
you know that this church, this was going to be
your church family? Because that's a big decision. Yes, because
Mrs Roxana, you know, everybody ain't your friend when you're
walking to church. You know, now I might put on
my best I didn't put on my Sunday's finest. Okay,
I'm ironed up my waves on top. Feel good, my
(16:33):
crown feels good. I smell delicious. I have my word ready, okay,
opinion in case I need to write something. I even
have a highlight of. But the reality is every church
that I've walked into is not has not welcomed me
with open arms. Unfortunately, my walk thus fall has allowed
me spaces where I've had to revisit to pray for
(16:56):
because I've not been welcomed so graciously. My wife and
I had counted tons of experiences where we've been called
out on pews unfortunately due to our queer quote unquote
uh perceived appearances, if you would, uh, and so we
have not always felt most safe in the churches that
we've been invited into. To be honest with you, So
a part of the walk and finding a home church
(17:19):
for me has been walking into spaces that are not
necessarily friendly. If I'm looking for anything else, I'll go
again and again. So you know, my home church and
your fellowship, if you would, is something that I I
just I community it was. It was something that was
really really dire for me to find, and so I
kept pushing for that, uh, down to like google searches,
(17:40):
you know, and using all that's around me asking my friends,
you know, being unafraid to say out loud that I
was looking for a church, family, uh and and and
those things began to pronounce those themselves. I realized that
a lot of my community that I was looking for
was right under my nose. I just had to be
honest out loud about who I am uh and you know,
(18:02):
and again how I can be of greater help right
so to that community. So that's how I found my
home church. That's amazing that you like stated your intentions
and stated what you were looking for, which I think
not we don't do often enough, especially I think it's
black queer women, because I don't think I think, at
least for me, I have often not anymore as much,
(18:23):
But earlier in my life I did not know that
anyone would be there listening right and ready to receive
sort of what I was needing or looking for. And
so I love that you were able to state that
intention and that that desire. So you mentioned earlier that
services part of your tithing and your faith. What does
(18:43):
service look like in terms of the art that you
put into the world and the ways that you interact
with your communities? Sure, Um, there are plenty of you
mentioned the art fair earlier where you were where you
saw St. Boaz and a couple other portraits that were there. UM.
I try my best to be present for a lot
(19:03):
of the shows or fairs that my work is is
a part of, so that I can meet and interface
with UH folks who you know, who appreciate the work.
I like to shake hands and give hugs to people
who Some people approach me in need of prayers. Some
people ask me via email or online or you know,
DM me asking that I pray with them. That's an
(19:25):
active service. UM that I'm very I'm always very grateful
to be called into UH. There are still student spaces
that I get to speak at their speaking engagements where
I get to speak from So you know, I can't
teach day to day the way I once did, but
as often as I can, I do volunteer. When you're
ready to make a new painting, what does that process
(19:46):
look like? When you go to your creative space your
studio and are ready or hope to be ready. I
usually like some instance, you know, I I turned up
my gospel. You know, I make sure the windows open.
I keep a lot of water around I paint primarily
on my knees because I pray on my knees. I've
(20:08):
set my stage, you know, Mr. Rock saying, I make
sure that i'm you know, I'm living in charge. You know.
I make sure that the Holy Spirit has room to
to to feel welcomed. If you would, everything is clean.
It's important to me to have a clean space. My
paint is ultimately my my my color palette is is set.
If you would, Uh, it's a it's a it's a
(20:29):
cool vibe. It's a smooth vibe, if you would. I
feel comfortable. Ultimately. I'm usually in something comfortable, sweats or
some type of linen, something soft. I don't like candles
or anything like that. I'm scared of ship like that.
Like I can't do nothing like that. I'd mean, I
didn't burn myself up, but I don't do nothing like
cool like that. Now, the campus is bigger than me, Ms.
(20:52):
Rock saying, So there's a lot that I put down
to hold the campus down in one place, so it's
not slotting while I'm dancing across it and prayer if
you will it and then I you know, I pray
until the Holy Spirit to be present. I think that's
ultimately very very important. I use my human frequency to
access a fervent prayer, which which helps me to to
to gain further access to a birthing frequency, if you would,
(21:17):
I'm really really reliant on my belief. I'm reliant on
my ability to let go. Everything that I need physically
is in place. Uh So I can let go physically.
I can close my eyes and let go, if you would.
I can let my hands do the walking, the talking,
and I can close my eyes and let God be God.
It's a very childlike space for me. Miss so I'm saying,
(21:37):
it's like being in a in a jungle gym. I
know where every slot is, I know how every swing works.
You know. I know where the music is. I know
where my friends are. I'm sitting in vision, I'm sitting
in circle, I'm sitting in in song. I'm in a
very very familiar place. Everything smells good, there's food there
if I need it. And then I come out of
(21:59):
that breath someti times, and and there's a there's a
portrait as we would describe it, but for me, it
was it was like sitting in a gospel song. It
was like sitting on Nana's lap. You know, it felt like, um,
the last time my mom hugged me. It's a hunger
if you would that, um, the food that we put
into our mouths can't really occupy. It's something that I
(22:20):
have to drink a lot of water to exist in.
And again, there's a lot of belief that's a part
of the let go uh to get to that playground.
Do you always appreciate what you see when you're done,
when you think, okay, this portrait is where I wanted
to be, do you are you always happy with it?
(22:41):
Do you sometimes go back revised artistically? Yeah? No, I'm
very critical of my selfness rocks and you know, back
to that being a good girl, you know, in order
my mom my mom is tough, honey, you know my
grandmama is tough. That those are those are those are
not easy people to press. Those are my first gods,
(23:01):
you know what I mean. Those are the first people
that I, uh that said, hey, that's good or that's not.
Those are also the first people that I found most
beautiful in my life, whose reflections I aim to push
into my little black and white note book when I
was trying to, you know, retrace my epity magazines and
things like that. I was really tracing, tracing that stroke
of beauty, right. So so no, I'm very very critical
(23:24):
of myself because I'm aiming, uh to to strike a
real real genius, if you would. So there's lots of editing,
I guess, there's there's lots of um self reflection. There's
lots of mistakes, there's there's there are lots I trip
on pain all the time. I'm grateful, So I'm grateful.
I'm grateful. I'm grateful. I'm grateful. I'm Grateful'm grateful, and
(23:44):
then you know, there's a let go. You know, sometimes
it's it's a formula that feels like I can calculate
and then back to that love frequency, it's larger, it's
it's bigger, uh, And it's just something I want to
swim in and I don't necessarily want to explain it.
So maybe for that painting there's less editing. I'm just
grateful for the presence across the work. And I've gotten
(24:04):
really comfortable with that presence, if you would like, with
calling on that presence, and I'm I'm okay with how
odd that sounds. I'm okay with how it doesn't sound
that odd. I have to say, it doesn't sound that odd. Well,
I appreciate that, miss rock Sam. But I just mean
like sometimes I don't always have words for for that
that for how that that belief occupies itself in my
(24:25):
life or across the paintings. But yes, I'm I'm I'm
very critical of myself. It's it takes months before i'm
I'm willing to really really release something, and then I
usually push it back into prayer before I you know,
I let it go to the public. Um. It's also
important that I paint from a happy space, if you would.
I'm painting from a confidence space. So that's not every
(24:47):
day for me. You know, I may go into the
studio and work every day. You know, there's some sketch work,
there's some prayer work, there's some reading over the word
that I can do. But the painting, you know, it's
really important that I that I'm physically in a in
a I'm physically in a good space. That's critically important.
How do you know when a piece is ready when
you just know, okay, this is done well, when you're
(25:09):
in the kitchen, When when Nana in the kitchen and
she cooking and she just closes the pot and she
stepped away. It's it's it's a specific dance. She don't
look back, she don't she don't ask you how it tastes.
You know, all that all that ship is a myth.
You know. She don't bring up spoon to you and
not your tasted. That's bullshit. When Nanna finishing the kitchen,
she said, all right, y'all, let's pray. That's how, that's how,
(25:31):
that's how you know the fool ready and so that's
the that's the that's the finishing. Uh. Feeling that I
that I aim to to to feel over the canvas.
It's very similar Mr Rock saying, I know it smells
good everything. Um. You know, it's like standing over a
fresh pana mac and cheese. You know, it's it's the
way it's supposed to be. It's the way I remember
(25:52):
it being. If you would, I stand up straight because
because because I know it's good, but it smells good.
Ship the dance is done um. To me as a
Black American woman, I've been blessed with an immediate style,
honey and immediate Uh. I know how to get to
get down and you know, I know how to get dressed.
You know, I know how to do this culture thing
(26:13):
that's innate to me. So of course I know when
something is done because I've I've been taught to recognize
that that quote unquote done feeling. It's a confidence. But
in in in art terms, I would say it's it's
when the work is at its greatest point of balance.
It's interesting because for writing it's much the same way.
I can't give you specific parameters. I just know when
(26:36):
I know, and it is what it is. And you know,
it may be elusive getting to that place, but I
do know it when I'm there. So as artists, we
inevitably have to interact with a market in order to
sustain ourselves financially. But how do you handle the business
of making art? There's a portion in the world when
(26:56):
when Jesus said, pay his tag, just pay the tax
And I remember were talking to a particular but he said, listen,
if we owe taxes, pay the taxes. You know what
I'm saying. So I take that into my business, you know,
I take that into my day to day. Uh. Being
humans is a wonderful, wonderful gift. But I got to
pay the taxes. Mr tack saying, you know, I'm learning
every single day how to be a better businesswoman in
(27:19):
the art world. Um. It's it's of critical importance, and
I wouldn't be where I am today without that. Um.
I've had to take uh steps back from the canvas.
You know. I we my wife and I refer to
them as uh, you know meeting mondays. You know what
we get down and you know, we talk about the business.
You know, we study a bit of the history, we
study a bit of the the current affairs, if you would,
(27:39):
so that we can keep up with with you know,
the flow of it, learn the language of it, and
feel comfortable in those in those rooms where I'm the
only person who looks like me. Um. So it's important
that I I work to attract a community of collectors
who believe in the legacy of my work, because ultimately,
(28:04):
I believe that the language that God has given me, uh,
like this vessel Genesis tremaine the best, you know. I
just I believe that it's something that it really will
help out tomorrow. UM. I really believe that it's it's
it's greater than me. Um and it deserves a very
very specific house, if you would, so I I work
(28:25):
to make sure that my legacy is maintained properly. And
what do you want your legacy to be? One of
a servant you know, I'm smiling bright, one that uh um,
I don't you know? One that one that is is
a giver um, one that is kind um um. I
want to be remembered for having the smallest footprints in
(28:45):
the biggest rooms. You know. I want the work to
make the loudest statements that they can, whether I'm here
or not. I want the legacy to be to work,
my use of color, line stroke, my use of God's
bull uh with regard to art, my use of sculptural
impression with regard to two D frames. I want my
(29:08):
legacy to be wrapped around my impressions of secondary color
and uh primary extension. I want to be compared to
the greats. I want to create a you know, a
sound wave that is recognized immediately at first sight. I
want to make sure that Genesis Tremaine is remembered as
a servant, you know, someone that can help others access
(29:30):
their spaces of belief and self love. Genesis Tremaine, talking
with you is always just a journey in the best
possible way. Thank you so much for coming on the
Rock Sane Gay Agenda with me today. I truly appreciate it.
Of course, thank you so much for having me. This
is exciting. Thank you, thank you, thank you. You're welcome.
(29:51):
You're welcome. You can keep up with me and the
podcast on social media on Twitter at our Day and
Instagram at Roxanne Gay seven. For our email is Roxanne
Gay Agenda at gmail dot com and we would love
to hear from you from Luminary. The Roxanne Gay Agenda
is produced by Curtis Fox. Our researchers Yes Sadia Moreno.
(30:11):
Production support is provided by Caitlin Adams and Meg Pillow.
I Roxanne Gay, your favorite bad feminist. Thank you for listening.
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