May 31, 2022 • 41 mins
June Diane Raphael on the psychological challenge of being a woman on TV and film sets, and why she’s leery of being “the good girl.” The comedian/actor/screenwriter/podcaster also talks about everything from menstrual moods to career ambitions. Plus, Roxane recounts the plot of one of her favorite bad movies.
Mentions:
- “Oh God, A Show About Abortion” https://www.ohgodshow.com/
- “Battleship” https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1440129/
- “How Did This Get Made” podcast https://www.earwolf.com/show/how-did-this-get-made/
- ” The Deep Dive with Jessica St. Clair and June Diane Raphael" https://www.earwolf.com/show/the-deep-dive-with-jessica-st-clair-and-june-diane-raphael/
Credits: Curtis Fox is the producer. Our researcher is Yessenia Moreno. Production help from Kaitlyn Adams and Meg Pillow. Theme music by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Sugiura.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Recently, I had a chance to see the one woman
show Oh God, a show about abortion, written by and
starring comedian Alison Leeby. In it, she details the experience
of getting an abortion in her mid thirties simply because
she doesn't want children, and you know who among us.
The show is smart and a reverend and incredibly necessary,
(00:21):
and because it's also a show about women's choices and
sexuality and how limited our cultural conversations about these issues
can be, it's also very timely. The show is running
right now and it has just been extended until June
thirtieth at the Cherry Lane Theater in New York. So
if you can make some time to see the show,
please do. And also, let's just normalize talking about abortion
(00:46):
from luminary. This is the Roxanne Gay Agenda, the Bad
Feminist podcast of your dreams. I am Roxanne Gay, your
favorite at feminist. On a Roxanne Gay Agenda, I talk
about something that's on my mind, and then I talked
with someone interesting to find out what's on their mind.
And on this week's agenda, terrible Movies. What a transition,
(01:09):
I know, I know, it's just like, let's go from
abortion to bad film. It was seamless. Honestly, Uh, there's
this genre of film that can best be termed as
fucia America. These are movies that carefully showcase America's military might,
making it clear that the armed forces are the mightiest
in the world. And one of the best movies in
(01:30):
this genre is Battleship. Yes, like the Board Game the
year was I could not resist with some arm twisting
from a man I was having sex with at the
time seeing this midnight movie. Everything I'm about to tell
you about Battleship is true. So let me start by
saying that they were very liberal in their interpretation of
the Board Game and that was actually the one bright spot.
(01:53):
The budget for this ship show was two hundred million dollars,
which wow. And so here's some move movies that Battleship
flagrantly steals from Top Gun, Transformers, Pearl Harbor, Space Cowboys, Contact,
Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Independence Day, Armageddon, The
Hunt for Red October, Deep Impact, and many others. The
(02:15):
producers and writers literally just stitched together the best and
worst moments and ideas from each of these movies, creating
what can only be termed as a Franken movie. Now
When Battleship opens, there's some type on the screen filling
us in on the bullshit premise they came up with
to actually turn a board game into a movie. Suffice
it to say, aliens are involved. The man that you
(02:37):
people call Tim Riggins and Eric from True Blood are
brothers and they're in the Navy. One is a good
boy and one is a bad boy. Now there's some
backstory involving Tim Riggins or Hopper as they insist on
calling him, but it doesn't really matter, and so we
flash forward and Hopper is a lieutenant in the Navy
and his brother Stone Hopper is a commander. Yep, opera,
(03:00):
just let that marinate. They're gonna be these naval exercises
called rim Pack, and a bunch of navy ships are
involved in. The Japanese and the Malaysians are there too.
But but before the war games, there's a soccer match.
This is a blatant rip off from Top Gun. But
they couldn't have it be a volleyball game because that
would just be too obvious. The US is playing Japan
(03:21):
and there's all kinds of Pearl Harbor subtext, and Rihanna
is on the American team. She is the only woman
in the entire navy, and let's just get this Rihanna
business out of the way. She's incredible love fancy products,
but her acting in this film is not the greatest.
Her wig is actually a crime. She could not deliver
a line. It was just a mess from beginning to end.
(03:43):
But still I was into it because Rihanna ted out
of tent no notes. So the game begins and suddenly
some geeks at a satellite array notice five objects hurtling
toward the Earth. One of the objects veers toward Hong Kong,
which is like where all the space objects land in
the movies. A good part of the city is destroyed.
The rest of the objects land conveniently in the water,
(04:05):
is just off Hawaii, where the war games are taking place.
Of course, I mean, thank goodness they did not land
in some other part of the largest ocean in the world. Hopper,
Rihanna and some random guy getting the zippy little boat
with a gun, and they go closer to investigate, and
it scenes so absurd it maybe laugh until I cried.
Hopper jumps out of the boat and starts strolling on
(04:26):
the alien object, and then he goes to this big
tower that's like an ugly water feature. And even though
his friends are saying I wouldn't do that, he pushes
a button. Crazy things start happening, involving c g I wearring, sounds,
and transformation. I am certain that the same production and
design team that did Transformers also did this movie. They
borrowed the necessary sound effects and graphics they wila art.
(04:50):
In short order, the aliens blow up Eric's ship and
that's that Hopper is hopping mad. So he goes back
to his ship and guess what he is now the
highest ranking officer that the CEO and EXCEL were killed
in an alien shelling, which, of course we also learned
that the aliens only attack if they sense an aggressor.
It makes no sense, but we're going to go with it.
(05:11):
But here's what drives me crazy about alien invasion movies.
Is it really possible that every alien species out there
is smarter than humans? Like? What is with this human
self loathing that pervades these movies? Just once, I would
love to see the planet invaded by idiot aliens. Anyway,
more dramatic and implausible things happen. Finally, Hoppert pulls his
(05:32):
ship together and he grief rages, and he looks sweaty
and muscily. A serious portion of this movie's budget went
to spritzing the characters down. Also like the Rock in
the Fast and Furious movies. Out on the ocean, they
have no radar, but they need to see the aliens.
What can they do? The Japanese captain Nagata says he
has an idea, a way of seeing without seeing, and
(05:54):
I perked up because I knew whatever nonsense they were
about to throw at me was going to be amazing,
and it was. Nagatas is that they can use tsunami
booies to track water displacement. So they log into this
system and start seeing booies pop up on the screen.
And then Hopper says, make a grid, and we see
a grid with red dots moving across the grid, indicating
that the aliens are moving. Friends. It was then that
(06:16):
I realized that they literally made a movie about battleship,
as in, not just about the actual boat, that's a battleship.
So I lost it. At this point, I was in tears.
Captain Negata takes command and he begins trying to hit
the alien ships. He calls out coordinates, and Rhanna, who's
now some kind of weapons specialist, aims the weapons in
(06:36):
that direction and they miss, and they try again, and
Negata was like F four and boom, you sank my battleship.
The only only thing that would have made this movie
more amazing would have been if they had incorporated that
line about sinking a battleship, and this one regard the
filmmakers restrained themselves. At this point, the movie devolves into
(06:57):
pure lunacy. Hopper and his crew need a boat because
theirs has been destroyed, so they go to this big
commissioned battleship where at the beginning of the movie a
ceremony was being held with Liam Neeson. Hopper's comrades are
freaking out because the battleship is analog their words, and
it runs on steam and it hasn't been used in
like twenty years. I know who's going to get the
(07:18):
ship started. But good news, there are these old navy
dudes who are being honored in that ceremony at the
beginning of the movie with Liam Neeson, and they just
happened to be standing on the battleship in like various
strategic places wearing their old navy dungarees. Hopper walks up
to them and he says, I know you've given a
lot to your country, and I have no right to ask,
but will you help us? Why would he say that?
(07:40):
The old guys are literally standing on the ship. The
world is about to end. Why wouldn't they go into service.
It's like a waiter at a restaurant saying to a
seated couple, I know you've eaten in your lifetime, and
you are here voluntarily, and it's a lot to ask.
What would you do me the honor of eating in
my restaurant? Red blooded American rock and roll starts blaring
the entire soundship for Battle fact, in fact, falls under
(08:03):
the playlist on my iPhone called white People Music. The
battleship being seaworthy is not something that could ever be possible.
But fine, fine, they have like a handful of missiles,
as if there would ever be live munitions hanging around
on a decommissioned ship. They set sail to save the
day with one bomb in the use of the sun.
God bless America the end. But enough about battleship. Let
(08:27):
me tell you about today's guest. You have seen her
if you've watched Grace and Frankie on Netflix for seven seasons,
or Burning Love or Adult Swim or the film's Bride
Wars and Asked Backwards, both of which she co wrote.
You may have heard her on the hit podcast How
Did This Get Made, and which she and her co
(08:47):
hosts marvel about certain movies that somehow make it to
the big screen. Or you may have heard her on
her other podcast, A Deep Dive, or in some of
her voice over work, which is to say, she gets
around actor, screenwriter and comedian June Diane Raphael is all
over the place, and I, for one, I'm so thankful
for that because she's incredible. June Diane, thank you so
(09:09):
much for joining me on the Rock Sand Gay Agenda. Roxanne.
It's so interesting because I never understand why people who
haven't seen the movies that we talked about on How
This Get Made listen to the podcast until now, until today,
because I have never seen Battleship, and I was riveted.
But oh my god, listen, I have a way longer
(09:31):
version of this. You have to see Battleship. It is
just so bad. I didn't know. I didn't know until today.
I was today years old when I learned that it's
based on the board game. It is really at the beginning,
like you know, you know, when they do all the
production credits, it is like in partnership with Hasbro Studios,
(09:54):
which fucking id like, wow, okay, everybody's got a little
student you now, mattell as Bro Nintendo and that sort
of like that is it is concerning that like these properties,
like we're looking to bargains, we're looking to emojis, you know,
never forget the Emoji movie, Like we're really looking for
stories where we should not be looking. What's so interesting
(10:17):
about that is that there's no shortage of really great
storytelling or storytellers who can come up with original ideas,
and yet people are like, oh, an emoji movie, like
let's do that, and it was terrible. And also there
was an emoji musical which I saw two years ago
before COVID. It was terrible, cute, well intended, but like
(10:38):
the whole time I was just like, this can't possibly
be happening. But I wasn't alone. There were like a
hundred other people in the theater. Wow, it was wild.
So yeah, I just understood something right now listening to you,
because I was like, Oh, I guess this is I
guess this might be the experience of some people who
listened to our podcast. We've never seen them the movie. Um,
(10:58):
I didn't know. I can't believe they did that scene
with the coordinates they did. They did, and it was
so funny because the whole time I just thought, Oh,
they borrowed from the Board Game and they're like literally
referring to a battleship like a destroyer. Then when they
were like we're going to use the n O A
A Booye's, I was like, where is this going? And
then on the screen you see a goddamn grid people
(11:21):
the board game, and it was I was just like wow.
So my experience of that movie is that Brooklyn Decker
is a very close friend of mine, so I know
she's in that pure okay, So the only thing I
my only understanding of the movie is through her and
her stories of working with Rihanna, which are pretty spectacular.
(11:44):
I bet I've been like three inches away from her
a few times, and she's luminous. Is she just yeah,
yeah and fun. I'm reporting through Brooklyn's experience, but um
just seems like a the time, I agree, and I
love that for her because so many stars get like
(12:05):
chewed up and spit out and like they seem fucking miserable,
but she seasons like I'm going to be happy you
are not taking that for me, And God bless her,
God bless her, And I really hope she gets back
into movies. She was good and um she was an
Oceans eight, which I thought was fun because she played
this like Hacker. I think her character was named a ball,
(12:26):
which why not? And you know, I just thought, oh,
you've really groan since Battleship, which was just such a mess.
But like anyone would have been terrible in Battleship, it
was just that horrifically bad. There was was doing her
any favor, No, it really wasn't. And like she had
like five different naval duties, like she was just sort
(12:47):
of meant to be like the woman and also like
the big name to bring people in and to be fair.
That is why I would never why it so frustrated
at those characters and those types of movies where it's
like this woman, uh, somehow knows how to do everything,
like everything there is to do in the world and
(13:07):
and the most complicated things. We can trust that she
knows how to do it and always rises to the occasion,
which seems so antithetical to life, because there are a
lot of times where I'm like, the occasion is quite
high and I am simply not going to rise and
I will not be there now. I won't. And I
wish like more movies would allow us that capacity to
(13:29):
just like I do think there's a lot of space
between like constant crisis, hot mess and like constantly having
all of the answers like where is the middle ground?
Where like sometimes my ship is together and sometimes it isn't. Oh,
you can just well you can just take a look
at the interior of my car to know how I'm doing.
And I also have to say, do you think women
in particular, like I'm on such a ride with my
(13:51):
menstrual cycle. Like the person you're seeing today roxand gay,
and I'm so excited to be here with you. It's
it's such a crazy honor. The person you're seeing today
is a very different person than the one I was
three days ago, when I was on day two, you know,
so it's like those are actually quite different. Those are
different people they are. And I do watch my husband
(14:12):
walk through the world I'm like, you seem like the
same person every day. Huh, what's that? Like? What's so
funny is that I've had my period now for like
thirty two years, and every month I have the exact
same set of symptoms where I'm like super weepy for
at least a week, and my wife's like, what's wrong?
Are you okay? And I'm like, I'm fine, it's just
(14:35):
the world that's coming to an end. And then like
I'm sore all over the place, and then other horrible
internal things happen, and then I get my period and
I'm like, oh, right there. And it's amazing how even
after thirty two years of like having all of these
mood shifts and like physical responses, I'm still shocked as ship.
(14:57):
But my period, it's my of how it's like we
have some kind of period amnesia for like two days
of the month. What freaks me out actually is it
sometimes I'm like this version of me where I am
so sensitive to the world where I look at my
dog and weep, you know, when I am angry and
(15:19):
lash out, like I actually think I might be more
myself then in those days. Yeah, that's the that scares me,
especially when I'm at my weepiest because I'm not. I
don't cry. I'm not. I mean I do, but I'm
not like a huge crier. And so like on these
days where I feel like the slightest thing will push
(15:39):
me over the edge, and to just abject grief is
so odd, And then I wonder like, huh, like is
that my truest self or that you know how like
when you've had a drink or five and you're like,
this is me, I'm really letting myself. I'm free now,
I'm free. One of the things I wanted to ask
(16:01):
you about is I love that you have this podcast
that you co host UM about Terrible Movies, because I
love terrible movies. They're one of my favorite favorite things.
And the way you guys break down these movies, oftentimes
it really is like, wow, how did this get made?
You know? I do say this on the podcast sometimes,
but I'm kind of there against my will, so I
(16:26):
don't know, you know, I I do worry about the
amount of time that it takes to watch these movies
and truly, what's happening to my brain? Like I don't
know that I enjoy movies anymore because I'm so scared
of them because of how many bad ones I've had
to watch. I tend to wonder like, is the movie
(16:47):
industry going to come to an end? Because they keep
making so many just truly bad movies that seem like
at some point during the development and making of the
movie someone really thought like this is great. My husband
I co host the podcast with we watched a lot
of movies together, and there's nothing better than watching them
together and like laughing our little asses off, and it
(17:12):
is just so stupid and fun that I do have
an appreciation for it. But there's a there's a there's
so many different categories, right because those types of movies
that you're describing and at battleship in this category big budgets,
absurd budgets like honestly morally reprehensible budgets that are there's
(17:32):
just so much money thrown at them and choices are
being made that are so wrong that they're enjoyably bad
to watch. Unfortunately, with our podcast, we've had to more
than a few times dip our toes into like the
painfully bad. Are you at all able to enjoy any
movies or do you always sort of go into them
(17:53):
now when thinking like, what bad can I find in
this movie? Well, no, I do. I really do love movies.
I think it's just that I'm um. I think anytime
you take a hobby that you enjoy, that you do
for fun, which for me and Paul and Jason was
always like watching Old Dogs in the movie theater and
(18:14):
then going out to dinner together and talking about it,
and you kind of you monetize it and it becomes
a job. You know that some of the joy gets
taken away from it. So I do I mean going
to see movies. I've only seen one in the theater
since COVID, but it's my favorite thing in the world.
(18:35):
I love going to the theater. And I was in
I was in Cheaper by the New Cheaper by the
Dozen with Gabrielle Union and Zach have a small role
in it. Um, it's really fun and I'm sorry, that's
my was that your phone? Yeah, it's just my friend door.
(18:56):
Who's there? You can leave it next door? Nobody someone
from doing a guest inspection. There's a gas leak somewhere. Um,
in an hour, someone will be available. Thanks. That seems sketchy.
(19:22):
So Cheaper by the Dozen, which I actually can't wait
to see because I've seen the two previous versions. Yeah,
I really enjoyed it, but I saw I brought my
kids and we all went to the premiere of it.
There's still such just something about having a communal experience
in the theater that I really do believe it is
going to stand the test of time. There's just nothing
like it, especially with comedies, like the way that they
(19:43):
play in a big theater. I agree. You know a
lot of times people wring their hands. I see this
in publishing with books are going to die because of
the books, which paper books continue to outsell the books,
and people worry that the theater experience is going to
be replaced. And I don't think it is, because as
much as I enjoy, you know, paying fifty dollars for
a movie at home the theater with the big screen
(20:06):
and the lights out and just laughing with everyone or
like having emotions with hundred other people, that collective experience
is so irreplaceable. Totally agree. And I think there's something
to hearing people laugh. It is a sacred experience. It's
one of those rituals, like it feels like we're crowding
(20:28):
around the fire. There's something that's like touch touches something
in me when I go to the theater. But also
when you hear other people laugh, I think lots of
people who are naturally introverted, and I actually include myself
in this. When you're hearing other people laugh and you
don't have to laugh at directly at them next to you,
(20:48):
or be a part of a social interaction where you're
given permission to have an emotion and like let it out,
like let it out of your body. That is so
cool and important and can really only happen in that setting.
I love walking away from that experience knowing like, oh,
(21:09):
I've had this experience that I'll never have anywhere else.
And I also feel the same way with live theater
and live music, like this collective thing. When I saw
Beyonce in concert and you like look at her strutting
on stage and she's just incredible, Like you absolutely know
in that moment, wow, like this is the only performance
(21:31):
that looks exactly like this that I am ever going
to see? Is he back? I keeps ringing about again,
I don't like that. Can Ian get gone? So I
(21:52):
will say that the experience that I'm am I regretful
of it. I don't know, but I had both of
my parents were passed away, but I think it was
right after I lost my dad. Yes, that my husband
had brought me to see um Dolly partner at the
Hollywood Bowl. Dolly so much. I was so excited to
(22:14):
see her. And we got there and I sat down
and she came out, and just hearing her voice talking
to us, I was like, Oh, it's too much. This
is I'm actually I'm not fit for public consumption right
now in this stage of my grief, and the sound
(22:36):
of her is unlocking something that I don't think I
can control. Then her first song was Code of Many Colors,
and I started crying and I could not stop. And
I said, Paul, now I've been looking forward to this
for weeks. He said, we have to go. We gotta
get out of here. And he was like, what do
(22:56):
you mean this is I've never seen Dolly live. He's
a huge Dolly fan, He's seen her in concert at
zillion times. He's like, I really want to experience this experiences.
I said, I'm so sorry, I have got to go.
And we walked out and I sat and like I
bought a T shirt because I was like I gotta
get I gotta get something here. I bought a T
(23:17):
shirt and I was like, I'm willing to listen to
her from outside by the concessions for one more song,
but I can't hear her voice. And it was because
it was too it was too much, and the communal
experience was actually too much on like this space can't
hold what I'm going through, and I want, I do
(23:39):
want other people to enjoy this, and they're going to
have to worry about a woman in Rose seventy who's
crying uncontrolled. Absolutely, I get it, you know, whenever I
have those moments when I'm so completely overcome a I'm
marvel at the just power of live performance, but also
(24:02):
like the cold. Hello, oh, it's very important. We have
a gas person here, We have a gast me if
you don't has to come, Oh my god, I am
so sorry. I don't know what this guy's deal is.
(24:24):
There's no gas, but I'm just gonna go see what
he wants because he's like, the fire department's going to
break down your door, which, what the fuck? Take your time.
I'm here, I'll be right back. No, take your time.
I'm just saying that here, what a Cliffhanger. She never
comes back. This is literally the last episode of the podcast.
(24:45):
No updates. O uh, they called the fire department to
(25:09):
come and get into the house. So anyway, I let
con ed in. Of course the leak is not from
our house, which I knew, and I never raised my voice.
But these people next door they're racist and they're rude,
and they never talked to Debbie the way they talked
to me, and so I was just like, you assholes,
(25:31):
I've got you now. Anyway, it's taken care of. Yeah,
we were talking about emotional moments during live performance. So,
you know, June, as a performer, and especially someone who
can be so comedic and sly and sharp, you evoke
(25:52):
those kinds of emotions and people. So how do you
try to reach audiences when you are on stage, when
you are on TV or in a movie like I
would love to know more about your process? Oh lord,
um my process? I you know, the only thing I
(26:14):
know about my process is I'm like, oh, if I
leave and don't feel like I've humiliated myself a little
bit or embarrassed or tried or did the wrong thing,
like I'm trying to be wrong more often now I
guess and okay with that, Um yeah. And honestly, it's
because I've watched Lily Tomlin work for seven years and
(26:35):
I see the lack of ego and the freedom and
I'm like, oh man, you know, but a part of
that for me too is film sets, TV sets, they're
really male dominated, and so I think for actresses it's
an interesting thing to show up and try to be
feel free because you've got a lot of dudes staring
(26:58):
at you holding equipment. You know. It's not a space
that or it takes a lot for me to to
walk into that space and to kind of calibrate myself
of my work on sets. And it's just working on
a show the other day where I was like, wow,
fun of the work is creating the space for myself,
creating the creative parameters. And then there's like ten percent
(27:23):
of acting or like performance, you know, and I don't
love those numbers, but unfortunately for me, like that's what
it it is. I don't know when I watched Lily,
who's so outside in you know, she's so kind of
physical and in her body so beautifully, that's where I
(27:43):
want to get to eventually. But um yeah, that's that's
my my process or the only thing I really find
myself demanding of myself is that I just take a
risk and get really comfortable with not doing things right.
You know. I hear that from a lot of women,
and I see it in myself as well, this idea
(28:06):
that I just want to be good. I want everyone
to like me. I want them to think I'm easy
to work with, and so I try not to. Like
when I was at an event the other day and
the women said, do you have a writer? Which I should,
and I was like, no, I don't, just like you
should get one, And I just thought, the reason I don't,
I just like do I just need a bottle of water?
Is because I don't want to seem high maintenance or
(28:27):
like expecting too much from myself or something like that.
And then I realized, like why, why, like, really do
you think anyone is ever going to be remembered for
being like super low maintenance and not caring about themselves enough?
Like I don't know if that's the way to be remembered.
And so how do you find how do you like
overcome your reticence to make space for yourself, especially in
(28:49):
these really male dominated environments, where they do want women
to like shut up and look. Well, I think about
how I'll feel on the ride home and if I'll
feel disappointed that I have I had an idea, but
I didn't want to ask for another take because I
knew the crew was tired, and I knew, you know,
they want to move on or whatever the thing is,
and you know, and and but to be quite honest
(29:11):
now or ex and I'm like, funk, they're not shooting
on film anymore. It's digital lights are up there, like,
but I can really like start to get worried about
like production and how they're all going to feel about this.
And I'm now trying to really think through, well, how
will you feel when you go home and know that
you had something else that you didn't put out there?
(29:33):
And and the other thing too is you know, I
do feel the gift of motherhood for me has really
been in like getting back to just play. Seeing the
kids play so instinctually and freely. I love that, And
I just want to get in trouble. I'm like, oh,
I want I want someone to tell me like take
(29:55):
it down. Don't like that's great news if I did
it wrong? Um, because for me and I know, Yeah,
you're right. For so many women says not amazing that
we're I find myself so really having to unlearn so
much of like being a good, good girl. And it's interesting,
like it doesn't matter really how old you are, like
(30:16):
you can still find yourself falling into the trap of
being a good girl, of forgetting about play. The men
do it with such ease, and everyone around them like
allows it and enables it, and oftentimes it merits like
really good things and you're like, wow, I love that,
and then other times you're like, I don't know, maybe
(30:37):
not all play is good, but it's it's interesting how
much we have to unlearn just to get to a
place where we can do our jobs well in the
ways that we think our truest to what we want
to do, and there's so many barriers to that. You've
been in a lot of films and a lot of
TV shows. What would be an ideal role for you
(31:01):
that you have not yet done, that you would love
someone to write for you, or that you would love
to write for yourself. I don't know. I've been thinking
a lot about what I want to do next, and
I do love physical comedy. I'm like the Lily Tomlins
of the world, the seal ball, like the big kind
of broad physical stuff. I just I know that that's
(31:22):
a space where I'm like, I know I have that
in me, and there were only a couple of times
where I've had like the real estate or to actually
do that. I really love exploring that type of big,
big physical comedy. Sometimes I think we were we were
only reserve that for the men to be real like
(31:44):
idiots and goofballs. UM. But I have that part of
myself that I know I really haven't gotten a chance
to share on the level that I want to. So
that's interesting to me, and that there's something about Actually
I was thinking about when I saw I saw your
live show Roxham, when you were in l A and
you had on um comedian and writer Ashley and Black
(32:09):
thank You, and she talked about how tired she was
of that trope of like this woman who who who
wants to get out life and knows what she wants
and and she's like, no, I actually want to play
like kind of a sad black woman. And I like,
I was like, I totally here, Like there's such a
there's still even with all the work that's been done
(32:31):
and representation all that jazz, there's still a pretty narrow
scope of humanity were allowed to express. And you know,
I think about that all the time because I am
always asked like, surely things have gotten better, right, Like,
you know you're doing this, this person is doing that,
you know, Like, and I'm like, as long as you
(32:51):
can a name and count the people doing things, but
you have to look at what they're actually doing. And
a lot of times it's like one kind of role
for women in particular, and I would say for women
of color even more. You know, there's not a lot
of space to really just show the range of what
we have to offer. That's why I think I loved
(33:13):
I May Destroy You so much on HBO with MICHAELA.
Cole because I was like, wow, I've never seen that
black woman on TV before. That's incredible. And I don't
want to be able to point out like the one
or the two or the three, you know, I want
her to be so many for women from all sort
of walks of life that we don't we're not counting anymore,
(33:36):
and like it's not even a conversation, but it feels
far away. Well, and then it's like, you know, I
always think about my own experience and and my own mother,
who was really the reason why I got into comedy
because I found her to be so funny. But she
was a good, a great mom, and bad at many things,
(33:56):
bad honestly bad at many elements of caretaking as well, truly,
and I'm like, oh, it's so much more nuanced, and
it's so not you know. And and she worked outside
the home, she was a New York City public school teacher,
and you know, was so good and also failed left
and right at things, and you still loved her just
(34:19):
as much like your Your esteem for your mother is clear. Oh,
I mean, listen, Rox. And I still feel like I
wish I could go to a summer camp. I always
say that's for like a week where I could learn
some of the basic things that I find other people
know that I looked back onto my childhood and I'm like,
why didn't, Like I didn't go to a dentist for
ten years? You know, there were gaps, There were gaps,
(34:42):
And yet I can also absolutely say that I had
wonderful parents who took incredible care of me that I'm
forever grateful for. So but there are gaps, you know,
a guy. Remember being an adult and seeing someone put
a napkin on their lap and thinking before to eate
(35:02):
dinner and thinking like, oh, June, like that's what people do.
Nobody told you that just for the tie us of
my home, Like there was just things that weren't related.
And yet I know how to love and be loved,
so I feel like I got everything absolutely, you know,
I think sometimes those are the most important lessons when
(35:25):
I sometimes think how my forty seven and I surely
don't know how to do x y or z um.
And then I think about what I do know how
to do, and I will say for me, namely, like
my mom and my dad, for all their faults, love
their children passionately. They're kind of obsessed with us and
(35:48):
that sort of you know, some people would find it suffocating,
but it's actually not for us because they let us.
You know, we live our own lives. We're all adults
at this point. But you know, there's no doubt that
were loved, and you know, Haitian parents never ever ever
stopped parenting, so it's just like they're still around to
like give thoughts and opinions like Roxanne, why isn't the
(36:10):
kitchen clean. Well, why isn't it Indeed, so, you know,
it's interesting to see like those gaps and then to
be able to you know, I think the older I get,
the more I'm able to reconcile those gaps and just
be like, yeah, you know, I can fill them in now.
It's I think there's something he said for there's so
(36:32):
much emphasis on parenting small children at the bulk of
our work is a clarit eighteen and I don't think
there is a lot of like cultural conversation around what
it is to be parent of an adult child. Yeah,
it's which is a very different thing. You know. When
I would say when I turned thirty five, I mean
it's coincidentally that's when I started to get my ship together,
(36:54):
but that's when my parents and I really developed an
interesting relationship where I enjoyed them again after always feeling like,
stop telling me what to do, stop criticizing me all
the time. And then it became not that we were
peers necessarily, but there were equitable conversations that we were
able to have and like adult conversations where I was like,
(37:15):
I can't believe I'm talking about this with my parents. Wow, awesome,
And you know, I do. I wish there was more
conversation about like what happens um with adults and their parents,
because it's not that it's easy zero through eighteen, but
(37:38):
like there's like, you know, you generally like keep them alive,
make them into good people, feed them. Yes, I mean,
I know it's much more complicated than that, and no,
but that's a big part of it. And but yeah,
there's like no books written for adults. No, there aren't.
And there's like a million books written for the little ones.
(38:00):
And you know, I look at my friends with kids
and I often think, yeah, you're also going to need
another user manual when they're you know, in their twenties
and thirties and beyond. So just to wrap things up,
even though I could talk to you forever, like what's
next for you professionally or personally, you know, professionally, I
(38:20):
don't know. And I'm trying to like be okay to
live in that space. I'm trying to really exercise some
discernments and control. You know, this is an industry that's
there's such a kind of poverty stricken mentality and and
it's so easy for me to fall into that feeling
of like there's not enough. Take take whatever they give
(38:41):
you and be happy and all of that stuff. And
so finances and our family are always sort of like
a disease of vagueness where we don't quite know, you know,
what we can afford and what we can't afford. So
I do I say that, but I really definitely have
to drill down on like how long I can have
this feeling for, you know, how long? How long I
(39:02):
can be like is it a week, is it a month,
is it a year? Like I simply don't know. So professionally,
I'm I'm trying to live in that creative space, but
also and sort of more of an admin way of
in terms of my life, I do want to try
to drill down on more of those details and be
a little bit more of an adult in kind of
(39:23):
like knowing those things which I can easily like dissociate from. Um.
So that's some of my goals. And then personally, I'm
just really committed to throwing parties, bringing people together, having
dance parties. I had I'm gonna have a basketball tournament
(39:46):
at my house on the fourth of July for my neighbors.
Nice are you going to play? Because I know you
used to play basketball. Of course I'm gonna play Hell, yes,
that's right. W w n B A okay. So, and
I want to say something about the w n B
A be kids. My son is super into sports, and
my husband's taking to Clippers games and and you know,
you go to a w NBA game and we've seen
(40:08):
the Sparks play a few times. First of all, I
can get great seats, which is the good news and
bad news, but you can um. But they also play
the game of basketball like they're moving the ball around,
They're playing the game and it's so not ego driven driven.
It's just so fascinating to watch because I'm like, oh,
this is how I actually want him to learn basketball
by watching these women. And also he he said it
(40:31):
before I did. He's like, Oh, at the w NBA games,
they have kids come out and dance, but at the
NBA games they have the women in the in the
short skirts and stuff. And I was like, yeah, yeah,
hard to he said, why. I'm like that said so
on a personal note, I'm trying. I'm like getting back
(40:53):
into sports, which I love, and playing sports for just
fun and staying like competitive tournaments at my home for adults.
That sounds amazing. I gotta say, I mean, of all
the things you could have possibly said, posting a basketball tournament,
was not there, and I like being surprised. Roxanne. I've
(41:16):
like painted a core, painted a half court on our driveway.
June Diane Richfield, thank you so much for coming on
the Roxanne Gay Agenda. I couldn't be happier to be here, Roxanne,
thank you so much. You can keep up with me
and the podcast on social media on Twitter at our
game and Instagram at Roxanne Gay seven four. Our email
(41:39):
is Roxanne Gay Agenda at gmail dot com, and we
would love to hear from you from Luminary. The Roxanne
Gay Agenda is produced by Curtis Fox. Our researcher as
Ysenya Moreno. Production support is provided by Caitlin Adams and
Meg Pillow. I am Roxanne Gay, your favorite bad feminists.
Thank you so much for listening.
Recently, I had a chance to see the one woman
show Oh God, a show about abortion, written by and
starring comedian Alison Leeby. In it, she details the experience
of getting an abortion in her mid thirties simply because
she doesn't want children, and you know who among us.
The show is smart and a reverend and incredibly necessary,
(00:21):
and because it's also a show about women's choices and
sexuality and how limited our cultural conversations about these issues
can be, it's also very timely. The show is running
right now and it has just been extended until June
thirtieth at the Cherry Lane Theater in New York. So
if you can make some time to see the show,
please do. And also, let's just normalize talking about abortion
(00:46):
from luminary. This is the Roxanne Gay Agenda, the Bad
Feminist podcast of your dreams. I am Roxanne Gay, your
favorite at feminist. On a Roxanne Gay Agenda, I talk
about something that's on my mind, and then I talked
with someone interesting to find out what's on their mind.
And on this week's agenda, terrible Movies. What a transition,
(01:09):
I know, I know, it's just like, let's go from
abortion to bad film. It was seamless. Honestly, Uh, there's
this genre of film that can best be termed as
fucia America. These are movies that carefully showcase America's military might,
making it clear that the armed forces are the mightiest
in the world. And one of the best movies in
(01:30):
this genre is Battleship. Yes, like the Board Game the
year was I could not resist with some arm twisting
from a man I was having sex with at the
time seeing this midnight movie. Everything I'm about to tell
you about Battleship is true. So let me start by
saying that they were very liberal in their interpretation of
the Board Game and that was actually the one bright spot.
(01:53):
The budget for this ship show was two hundred million dollars,
which wow. And so here's some move movies that Battleship
flagrantly steals from Top Gun, Transformers, Pearl Harbor, Space Cowboys, Contact,
Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Independence Day, Armageddon, The
Hunt for Red October, Deep Impact, and many others. The
(02:15):
producers and writers literally just stitched together the best and
worst moments and ideas from each of these movies, creating
what can only be termed as a Franken movie. Now
When Battleship opens, there's some type on the screen filling
us in on the bullshit premise they came up with
to actually turn a board game into a movie. Suffice
it to say, aliens are involved. The man that you
(02:37):
people call Tim Riggins and Eric from True Blood are
brothers and they're in the Navy. One is a good
boy and one is a bad boy. Now there's some
backstory involving Tim Riggins or Hopper as they insist on
calling him, but it doesn't really matter, and so we
flash forward and Hopper is a lieutenant in the Navy
and his brother Stone Hopper is a commander. Yep, opera,
(03:00):
just let that marinate. They're gonna be these naval exercises
called rim Pack, and a bunch of navy ships are
involved in. The Japanese and the Malaysians are there too.
But but before the war games, there's a soccer match.
This is a blatant rip off from Top Gun. But
they couldn't have it be a volleyball game because that
would just be too obvious. The US is playing Japan
(03:21):
and there's all kinds of Pearl Harbor subtext, and Rihanna
is on the American team. She is the only woman
in the entire navy, and let's just get this Rihanna
business out of the way. She's incredible love fancy products,
but her acting in this film is not the greatest.
Her wig is actually a crime. She could not deliver
a line. It was just a mess from beginning to end.
(03:43):
But still I was into it because Rihanna ted out
of tent no notes. So the game begins and suddenly
some geeks at a satellite array notice five objects hurtling
toward the Earth. One of the objects veers toward Hong Kong,
which is like where all the space objects land in
the movies. A good part of the city is destroyed.
The rest of the objects land conveniently in the water,
(04:05):
is just off Hawaii, where the war games are taking place.
Of course, I mean, thank goodness they did not land
in some other part of the largest ocean in the world. Hopper,
Rihanna and some random guy getting the zippy little boat
with a gun, and they go closer to investigate, and
it scenes so absurd it maybe laugh until I cried.
Hopper jumps out of the boat and starts strolling on
(04:26):
the alien object, and then he goes to this big
tower that's like an ugly water feature. And even though
his friends are saying I wouldn't do that, he pushes
a button. Crazy things start happening, involving c g I wearring, sounds,
and transformation. I am certain that the same production and
design team that did Transformers also did this movie. They
borrowed the necessary sound effects and graphics they wila art.
(04:50):
In short order, the aliens blow up Eric's ship and
that's that Hopper is hopping mad. So he goes back
to his ship and guess what he is now the
highest ranking officer that the CEO and EXCEL were killed
in an alien shelling, which, of course we also learned
that the aliens only attack if they sense an aggressor.
It makes no sense, but we're going to go with it.
(05:11):
But here's what drives me crazy about alien invasion movies.
Is it really possible that every alien species out there
is smarter than humans? Like? What is with this human
self loathing that pervades these movies? Just once, I would
love to see the planet invaded by idiot aliens. Anyway,
more dramatic and implausible things happen. Finally, Hoppert pulls his
(05:32):
ship together and he grief rages, and he looks sweaty
and muscily. A serious portion of this movie's budget went
to spritzing the characters down. Also like the Rock in
the Fast and Furious movies. Out on the ocean, they
have no radar, but they need to see the aliens.
What can they do? The Japanese captain Nagata says he
has an idea, a way of seeing without seeing, and
(05:54):
I perked up because I knew whatever nonsense they were
about to throw at me was going to be amazing,
and it was. Nagatas is that they can use tsunami
booies to track water displacement. So they log into this
system and start seeing booies pop up on the screen.
And then Hopper says, make a grid, and we see
a grid with red dots moving across the grid, indicating
that the aliens are moving. Friends. It was then that
(06:16):
I realized that they literally made a movie about battleship,
as in, not just about the actual boat, that's a battleship.
So I lost it. At this point, I was in tears.
Captain Negata takes command and he begins trying to hit
the alien ships. He calls out coordinates, and Rhanna, who's
now some kind of weapons specialist, aims the weapons in
(06:36):
that direction and they miss, and they try again, and
Negata was like F four and boom, you sank my battleship.
The only only thing that would have made this movie
more amazing would have been if they had incorporated that
line about sinking a battleship, and this one regard the
filmmakers restrained themselves. At this point, the movie devolves into
(06:57):
pure lunacy. Hopper and his crew need a boat because
theirs has been destroyed, so they go to this big
commissioned battleship where at the beginning of the movie a
ceremony was being held with Liam Neeson. Hopper's comrades are
freaking out because the battleship is analog their words, and
it runs on steam and it hasn't been used in
like twenty years. I know who's going to get the
(07:18):
ship started. But good news, there are these old navy
dudes who are being honored in that ceremony at the
beginning of the movie with Liam Neeson, and they just
happened to be standing on the battleship in like various
strategic places wearing their old navy dungarees. Hopper walks up
to them and he says, I know you've given a
lot to your country, and I have no right to ask,
but will you help us? Why would he say that?
(07:40):
The old guys are literally standing on the ship. The
world is about to end. Why wouldn't they go into service.
It's like a waiter at a restaurant saying to a
seated couple, I know you've eaten in your lifetime, and
you are here voluntarily, and it's a lot to ask.
What would you do me the honor of eating in
my restaurant? Red blooded American rock and roll starts blaring
the entire soundship for Battle fact, in fact, falls under
(08:03):
the playlist on my iPhone called white People Music. The
battleship being seaworthy is not something that could ever be possible.
But fine, fine, they have like a handful of missiles,
as if there would ever be live munitions hanging around
on a decommissioned ship. They set sail to save the
day with one bomb in the use of the sun.
God bless America the end. But enough about battleship. Let
(08:27):
me tell you about today's guest. You have seen her
if you've watched Grace and Frankie on Netflix for seven seasons,
or Burning Love or Adult Swim or the film's Bride
Wars and Asked Backwards, both of which she co wrote.
You may have heard her on the hit podcast How
Did This Get Made, and which she and her co
(08:47):
hosts marvel about certain movies that somehow make it to
the big screen. Or you may have heard her on
her other podcast, A Deep Dive, or in some of
her voice over work, which is to say, she gets
around actor, screenwriter and comedian June Diane Raphael is all
over the place, and I, for one, I'm so thankful
for that because she's incredible. June Diane, thank you so
(09:09):
much for joining me on the Rock Sand Gay Agenda. Roxanne.
It's so interesting because I never understand why people who
haven't seen the movies that we talked about on How
This Get Made listen to the podcast until now, until today,
because I have never seen Battleship, and I was riveted.
But oh my god, listen, I have a way longer
(09:31):
version of this. You have to see Battleship. It is
just so bad. I didn't know. I didn't know until today.
I was today years old when I learned that it's
based on the board game. It is really at the beginning,
like you know, you know, when they do all the
production credits, it is like in partnership with Hasbro Studios,
(09:54):
which fucking id like, wow, okay, everybody's got a little
student you now, mattell as Bro Nintendo and that sort
of like that is it is concerning that like these properties,
like we're looking to bargains, we're looking to emojis, you know,
never forget the Emoji movie, Like we're really looking for
stories where we should not be looking. What's so interesting
(10:17):
about that is that there's no shortage of really great
storytelling or storytellers who can come up with original ideas,
and yet people are like, oh, an emoji movie, like
let's do that, and it was terrible. And also there
was an emoji musical which I saw two years ago
before COVID. It was terrible, cute, well intended, but like
(10:38):
the whole time I was just like, this can't possibly
be happening. But I wasn't alone. There were like a
hundred other people in the theater. Wow, it was wild.
So yeah, I just understood something right now listening to you,
because I was like, Oh, I guess this is I
guess this might be the experience of some people who
listened to our podcast. We've never seen them the movie. Um,
(10:58):
I didn't know. I can't believe they did that scene
with the coordinates they did. They did, and it was
so funny because the whole time I just thought, Oh,
they borrowed from the Board Game and they're like literally
referring to a battleship like a destroyer. Then when they
were like we're going to use the n O A
A Booye's, I was like, where is this going? And
then on the screen you see a goddamn grid people
(11:21):
the board game, and it was I was just like wow.
So my experience of that movie is that Brooklyn Decker
is a very close friend of mine, so I know
she's in that pure okay, So the only thing I
my only understanding of the movie is through her and
her stories of working with Rihanna, which are pretty spectacular.
(11:44):
I bet I've been like three inches away from her
a few times, and she's luminous. Is she just yeah,
yeah and fun. I'm reporting through Brooklyn's experience, but um
just seems like a the time, I agree, and I
love that for her because so many stars get like
(12:05):
chewed up and spit out and like they seem fucking miserable,
but she seasons like I'm going to be happy you
are not taking that for me, And God bless her,
God bless her, And I really hope she gets back
into movies. She was good and um she was an
Oceans eight, which I thought was fun because she played
this like Hacker. I think her character was named a ball,
(12:26):
which why not? And you know, I just thought, oh,
you've really groan since Battleship, which was just such a mess.
But like anyone would have been terrible in Battleship, it
was just that horrifically bad. There was was doing her
any favor, No, it really wasn't. And like she had
like five different naval duties, like she was just sort
(12:47):
of meant to be like the woman and also like
the big name to bring people in and to be fair.
That is why I would never why it so frustrated
at those characters and those types of movies where it's
like this woman, uh, somehow knows how to do everything,
like everything there is to do in the world and
(13:07):
and the most complicated things. We can trust that she
knows how to do it and always rises to the occasion,
which seems so antithetical to life, because there are a
lot of times where I'm like, the occasion is quite
high and I am simply not going to rise and
I will not be there now. I won't. And I
wish like more movies would allow us that capacity to
(13:29):
just like I do think there's a lot of space
between like constant crisis, hot mess and like constantly having
all of the answers like where is the middle ground?
Where like sometimes my ship is together and sometimes it isn't. Oh,
you can just well you can just take a look
at the interior of my car to know how I'm doing.
And I also have to say, do you think women
in particular, like I'm on such a ride with my
(13:51):
menstrual cycle. Like the person you're seeing today roxand gay,
and I'm so excited to be here with you. It's
it's such a crazy honor. The person you're seeing today
is a very different person than the one I was
three days ago, when I was on day two, you know,
so it's like those are actually quite different. Those are
different people they are. And I do watch my husband
(14:12):
walk through the world I'm like, you seem like the
same person every day. Huh, what's that? Like? What's so
funny is that I've had my period now for like
thirty two years, and every month I have the exact
same set of symptoms where I'm like super weepy for
at least a week, and my wife's like, what's wrong?
Are you okay? And I'm like, I'm fine, it's just
(14:35):
the world that's coming to an end. And then like
I'm sore all over the place, and then other horrible
internal things happen, and then I get my period and
I'm like, oh, right there. And it's amazing how even
after thirty two years of like having all of these
mood shifts and like physical responses, I'm still shocked as ship.
(14:57):
But my period, it's my of how it's like we
have some kind of period amnesia for like two days
of the month. What freaks me out actually is it
sometimes I'm like this version of me where I am
so sensitive to the world where I look at my
dog and weep, you know, when I am angry and
(15:19):
lash out, like I actually think I might be more
myself then in those days. Yeah, that's the that scares me,
especially when I'm at my weepiest because I'm not. I
don't cry. I'm not. I mean I do, but I'm
not like a huge crier. And so like on these
days where I feel like the slightest thing will push
(15:39):
me over the edge, and to just abject grief is
so odd, And then I wonder like, huh, like is
that my truest self or that you know how like
when you've had a drink or five and you're like,
this is me, I'm really letting myself. I'm free now,
I'm free. One of the things I wanted to ask
(16:01):
you about is I love that you have this podcast
that you co host UM about Terrible Movies, because I
love terrible movies. They're one of my favorite favorite things.
And the way you guys break down these movies, oftentimes
it really is like, wow, how did this get made?
You know? I do say this on the podcast sometimes,
but I'm kind of there against my will, so I
(16:26):
don't know, you know, I I do worry about the
amount of time that it takes to watch these movies
and truly, what's happening to my brain? Like I don't
know that I enjoy movies anymore because I'm so scared
of them because of how many bad ones I've had
to watch. I tend to wonder like, is the movie
(16:47):
industry going to come to an end? Because they keep
making so many just truly bad movies that seem like
at some point during the development and making of the
movie someone really thought like this is great. My husband
I co host the podcast with we watched a lot
of movies together, and there's nothing better than watching them
together and like laughing our little asses off, and it
(17:12):
is just so stupid and fun that I do have
an appreciation for it. But there's a there's a there's
so many different categories, right because those types of movies
that you're describing and at battleship in this category big budgets,
absurd budgets like honestly morally reprehensible budgets that are there's
(17:32):
just so much money thrown at them and choices are
being made that are so wrong that they're enjoyably bad
to watch. Unfortunately, with our podcast, we've had to more
than a few times dip our toes into like the
painfully bad. Are you at all able to enjoy any
movies or do you always sort of go into them
(17:53):
now when thinking like, what bad can I find in
this movie? Well, no, I do. I really do love movies.
I think it's just that I'm um. I think anytime
you take a hobby that you enjoy, that you do
for fun, which for me and Paul and Jason was
always like watching Old Dogs in the movie theater and
(18:14):
then going out to dinner together and talking about it,
and you kind of you monetize it and it becomes
a job. You know that some of the joy gets
taken away from it. So I do I mean going
to see movies. I've only seen one in the theater
since COVID, but it's my favorite thing in the world.
(18:35):
I love going to the theater. And I was in
I was in Cheaper by the New Cheaper by the
Dozen with Gabrielle Union and Zach have a small role
in it. Um, it's really fun and I'm sorry, that's
my was that your phone? Yeah, it's just my friend door.
(18:56):
Who's there? You can leave it next door? Nobody someone
from doing a guest inspection. There's a gas leak somewhere. Um,
in an hour, someone will be available. Thanks. That seems sketchy.
(19:22):
So Cheaper by the Dozen, which I actually can't wait
to see because I've seen the two previous versions. Yeah,
I really enjoyed it, but I saw I brought my
kids and we all went to the premiere of it.
There's still such just something about having a communal experience
in the theater that I really do believe it is
going to stand the test of time. There's just nothing
like it, especially with comedies, like the way that they
(19:43):
play in a big theater. I agree. You know a
lot of times people wring their hands. I see this
in publishing with books are going to die because of
the books, which paper books continue to outsell the books,
and people worry that the theater experience is going to
be replaced. And I don't think it is, because as
much as I enjoy, you know, paying fifty dollars for
a movie at home the theater with the big screen
(20:06):
and the lights out and just laughing with everyone or
like having emotions with hundred other people, that collective experience
is so irreplaceable. Totally agree. And I think there's something
to hearing people laugh. It is a sacred experience. It's
one of those rituals, like it feels like we're crowding
(20:28):
around the fire. There's something that's like touch touches something
in me when I go to the theater. But also
when you hear other people laugh, I think lots of
people who are naturally introverted, and I actually include myself
in this. When you're hearing other people laugh and you
don't have to laugh at directly at them next to you,
(20:48):
or be a part of a social interaction where you're
given permission to have an emotion and like let it out,
like let it out of your body. That is so
cool and important and can really only happen in that setting.
I love walking away from that experience knowing like, oh,
(21:09):
I've had this experience that I'll never have anywhere else.
And I also feel the same way with live theater
and live music, like this collective thing. When I saw
Beyonce in concert and you like look at her strutting
on stage and she's just incredible, Like you absolutely know
in that moment, wow, like this is the only performance
(21:31):
that looks exactly like this that I am ever going
to see? Is he back? I keeps ringing about again,
I don't like that. Can Ian get gone? So I
(21:52):
will say that the experience that I'm am I regretful
of it. I don't know, but I had both of
my parents were passed away, but I think it was
right after I lost my dad. Yes, that my husband
had brought me to see um Dolly partner at the
Hollywood Bowl. Dolly so much. I was so excited to
(22:14):
see her. And we got there and I sat down
and she came out, and just hearing her voice talking
to us, I was like, Oh, it's too much. This
is I'm actually I'm not fit for public consumption right
now in this stage of my grief, and the sound
(22:36):
of her is unlocking something that I don't think I
can control. Then her first song was Code of Many Colors,
and I started crying and I could not stop. And
I said, Paul, now I've been looking forward to this
for weeks. He said, we have to go. We gotta
get out of here. And he was like, what do
(22:56):
you mean this is I've never seen Dolly live. He's
a huge Dolly fan, He's seen her in concert at
zillion times. He's like, I really want to experience this experiences.
I said, I'm so sorry, I have got to go.
And we walked out and I sat and like I
bought a T shirt because I was like I gotta
get I gotta get something here. I bought a T
(23:17):
shirt and I was like, I'm willing to listen to
her from outside by the concessions for one more song,
but I can't hear her voice. And it was because
it was too it was too much, and the communal
experience was actually too much on like this space can't
hold what I'm going through, and I want, I do
(23:39):
want other people to enjoy this, and they're going to
have to worry about a woman in Rose seventy who's
crying uncontrolled. Absolutely, I get it, you know, whenever I
have those moments when I'm so completely overcome a I'm
marvel at the just power of live performance, but also
(24:02):
like the cold. Hello, oh, it's very important. We have
a gas person here, We have a gast me if
you don't has to come, Oh my god, I am
so sorry. I don't know what this guy's deal is.
(24:24):
There's no gas, but I'm just gonna go see what
he wants because he's like, the fire department's going to
break down your door, which, what the fuck? Take your time.
I'm here, I'll be right back. No, take your time.
I'm just saying that here, what a Cliffhanger. She never
comes back. This is literally the last episode of the podcast.
(24:45):
No updates. O uh, they called the fire department to
(25:09):
come and get into the house. So anyway, I let
con ed in. Of course the leak is not from
our house, which I knew, and I never raised my voice.
But these people next door they're racist and they're rude,
and they never talked to Debbie the way they talked
to me, and so I was just like, you assholes,
(25:31):
I've got you now. Anyway, it's taken care of. Yeah,
we were talking about emotional moments during live performance. So,
you know, June, as a performer, and especially someone who
can be so comedic and sly and sharp, you evoke
(25:52):
those kinds of emotions and people. So how do you
try to reach audiences when you are on stage, when
you are on TV or in a movie like I
would love to know more about your process? Oh lord,
um my process? I you know, the only thing I
(26:14):
know about my process is I'm like, oh, if I
leave and don't feel like I've humiliated myself a little
bit or embarrassed or tried or did the wrong thing,
like I'm trying to be wrong more often now I
guess and okay with that, Um yeah. And honestly, it's
because I've watched Lily Tomlin work for seven years and
(26:35):
I see the lack of ego and the freedom and
I'm like, oh man, you know, but a part of
that for me too is film sets, TV sets, they're
really male dominated, and so I think for actresses it's
an interesting thing to show up and try to be
feel free because you've got a lot of dudes staring
(26:58):
at you holding equipment. You know. It's not a space
that or it takes a lot for me to to
walk into that space and to kind of calibrate myself
of my work on sets. And it's just working on
a show the other day where I was like, wow,
fun of the work is creating the space for myself,
creating the creative parameters. And then there's like ten percent
(27:23):
of acting or like performance, you know, and I don't
love those numbers, but unfortunately for me, like that's what
it it is. I don't know when I watched Lily,
who's so outside in you know, she's so kind of
physical and in her body so beautifully, that's where I
(27:43):
want to get to eventually. But um yeah, that's that's
my my process or the only thing I really find
myself demanding of myself is that I just take a
risk and get really comfortable with not doing things right.
You know. I hear that from a lot of women,
and I see it in myself as well, this idea
(28:06):
that I just want to be good. I want everyone
to like me. I want them to think I'm easy
to work with, and so I try not to. Like
when I was at an event the other day and
the women said, do you have a writer? Which I should,
and I was like, no, I don't, just like you
should get one, And I just thought, the reason I don't,
I just like do I just need a bottle of water?
Is because I don't want to seem high maintenance or
(28:27):
like expecting too much from myself or something like that.
And then I realized, like why, why, like, really do
you think anyone is ever going to be remembered for
being like super low maintenance and not caring about themselves enough?
Like I don't know if that's the way to be remembered.
And so how do you find how do you like
overcome your reticence to make space for yourself, especially in
(28:49):
these really male dominated environments, where they do want women
to like shut up and look. Well, I think about
how I'll feel on the ride home and if I'll
feel disappointed that I have I had an idea, but
I didn't want to ask for another take because I
knew the crew was tired, and I knew, you know,
they want to move on or whatever the thing is,
and you know, and and but to be quite honest
(29:11):
now or ex and I'm like, funk, they're not shooting
on film anymore. It's digital lights are up there, like,
but I can really like start to get worried about
like production and how they're all going to feel about this.
And I'm now trying to really think through, well, how
will you feel when you go home and know that
you had something else that you didn't put out there?
(29:33):
And and the other thing too is you know, I
do feel the gift of motherhood for me has really
been in like getting back to just play. Seeing the
kids play so instinctually and freely. I love that, And
I just want to get in trouble. I'm like, oh,
I want I want someone to tell me like take
(29:55):
it down. Don't like that's great news if I did
it wrong? Um, because for me and I know, Yeah,
you're right. For so many women says not amazing that
we're I find myself so really having to unlearn so
much of like being a good, good girl. And it's interesting,
like it doesn't matter really how old you are, like
(30:16):
you can still find yourself falling into the trap of
being a good girl, of forgetting about play. The men
do it with such ease, and everyone around them like
allows it and enables it, and oftentimes it merits like
really good things and you're like, wow, I love that,
and then other times you're like, I don't know, maybe
(30:37):
not all play is good, but it's it's interesting how
much we have to unlearn just to get to a
place where we can do our jobs well in the
ways that we think our truest to what we want
to do, and there's so many barriers to that. You've
been in a lot of films and a lot of
TV shows. What would be an ideal role for you
(31:01):
that you have not yet done, that you would love
someone to write for you, or that you would love
to write for yourself. I don't know. I've been thinking
a lot about what I want to do next, and
I do love physical comedy. I'm like the Lily Tomlins
of the world, the seal ball, like the big kind
of broad physical stuff. I just I know that that's
(31:22):
a space where I'm like, I know I have that
in me, and there were only a couple of times
where I've had like the real estate or to actually
do that. I really love exploring that type of big,
big physical comedy. Sometimes I think we were we were
only reserve that for the men to be real like
(31:44):
idiots and goofballs. UM. But I have that part of
myself that I know I really haven't gotten a chance
to share on the level that I want to. So
that's interesting to me, and that there's something about Actually
I was thinking about when I saw I saw your
live show Roxham, when you were in l A and
you had on um comedian and writer Ashley and Black
(32:09):
thank You, and she talked about how tired she was
of that trope of like this woman who who who
wants to get out life and knows what she wants
and and she's like, no, I actually want to play
like kind of a sad black woman. And I like,
I was like, I totally here, Like there's such a
there's still even with all the work that's been done
(32:31):
and representation all that jazz, there's still a pretty narrow
scope of humanity were allowed to express. And you know,
I think about that all the time because I am
always asked like, surely things have gotten better, right, Like,
you know you're doing this, this person is doing that,
you know, Like, and I'm like, as long as you
(32:51):
can a name and count the people doing things, but
you have to look at what they're actually doing. And
a lot of times it's like one kind of role
for women in particular, and I would say for women
of color even more. You know, there's not a lot
of space to really just show the range of what
we have to offer. That's why I think I loved
(33:13):
I May Destroy You so much on HBO with MICHAELA.
Cole because I was like, wow, I've never seen that
black woman on TV before. That's incredible. And I don't
want to be able to point out like the one
or the two or the three, you know, I want
her to be so many for women from all sort
of walks of life that we don't we're not counting anymore,
(33:36):
and like it's not even a conversation, but it feels
far away. Well, and then it's like, you know, I
always think about my own experience and and my own mother,
who was really the reason why I got into comedy
because I found her to be so funny. But she
was a good, a great mom, and bad at many things,
(33:56):
bad honestly bad at many elements of caretaking as well, truly,
and I'm like, oh, it's so much more nuanced, and
it's so not you know. And and she worked outside
the home, she was a New York City public school teacher,
and you know, was so good and also failed left
and right at things, and you still loved her just
(34:19):
as much like your Your esteem for your mother is clear. Oh,
I mean, listen, Rox. And I still feel like I
wish I could go to a summer camp. I always
say that's for like a week where I could learn
some of the basic things that I find other people
know that I looked back onto my childhood and I'm like,
why didn't, Like I didn't go to a dentist for
ten years? You know, there were gaps, There were gaps,
(34:42):
And yet I can also absolutely say that I had
wonderful parents who took incredible care of me that I'm
forever grateful for. So but there are gaps, you know,
a guy. Remember being an adult and seeing someone put
a napkin on their lap and thinking before to eate
(35:02):
dinner and thinking like, oh, June, like that's what people do.
Nobody told you that just for the tie us of
my home, Like there was just things that weren't related.
And yet I know how to love and be loved,
so I feel like I got everything absolutely, you know,
I think sometimes those are the most important lessons when
(35:25):
I sometimes think how my forty seven and I surely
don't know how to do x y or z um.
And then I think about what I do know how
to do, and I will say for me, namely, like
my mom and my dad, for all their faults, love
their children passionately. They're kind of obsessed with us and
(35:48):
that sort of you know, some people would find it suffocating,
but it's actually not for us because they let us.
You know, we live our own lives. We're all adults
at this point. But you know, there's no doubt that
were loved, and you know, Haitian parents never ever ever
stopped parenting, so it's just like they're still around to
like give thoughts and opinions like Roxanne, why isn't the
(36:10):
kitchen clean. Well, why isn't it Indeed, so, you know,
it's interesting to see like those gaps and then to
be able to you know, I think the older I get,
the more I'm able to reconcile those gaps and just
be like, yeah, you know, I can fill them in now.
It's I think there's something he said for there's so
(36:32):
much emphasis on parenting small children at the bulk of
our work is a clarit eighteen and I don't think
there is a lot of like cultural conversation around what
it is to be parent of an adult child. Yeah,
it's which is a very different thing. You know. When
I would say when I turned thirty five, I mean
it's coincidentally that's when I started to get my ship together,
(36:54):
but that's when my parents and I really developed an
interesting relationship where I enjoyed them again after always feeling like,
stop telling me what to do, stop criticizing me all
the time. And then it became not that we were
peers necessarily, but there were equitable conversations that we were
able to have and like adult conversations where I was like,
(37:15):
I can't believe I'm talking about this with my parents. Wow, awesome,
And you know, I do. I wish there was more
conversation about like what happens um with adults and their parents,
because it's not that it's easy zero through eighteen, but
(37:38):
like there's like, you know, you generally like keep them alive,
make them into good people, feed them. Yes, I mean,
I know it's much more complicated than that, and no,
but that's a big part of it. And but yeah,
there's like no books written for adults. No, there aren't.
And there's like a million books written for the little ones.
(38:00):
And you know, I look at my friends with kids
and I often think, yeah, you're also going to need
another user manual when they're you know, in their twenties
and thirties and beyond. So just to wrap things up,
even though I could talk to you forever, like what's
next for you professionally or personally, you know, professionally, I
(38:20):
don't know. And I'm trying to like be okay to
live in that space. I'm trying to really exercise some
discernments and control. You know, this is an industry that's
there's such a kind of poverty stricken mentality and and
it's so easy for me to fall into that feeling
of like there's not enough. Take take whatever they give
(38:41):
you and be happy and all of that stuff. And
so finances and our family are always sort of like
a disease of vagueness where we don't quite know, you know,
what we can afford and what we can't afford. So
I do I say that, but I really definitely have
to drill down on like how long I can have
this feeling for, you know, how long? How long I
(39:02):
can be like is it a week, is it a month,
is it a year? Like I simply don't know. So professionally,
I'm I'm trying to live in that creative space, but
also and sort of more of an admin way of
in terms of my life, I do want to try
to drill down on more of those details and be
a little bit more of an adult in kind of
(39:23):
like knowing those things which I can easily like dissociate from. Um.
So that's some of my goals. And then personally, I'm
just really committed to throwing parties, bringing people together, having
dance parties. I had I'm gonna have a basketball tournament
(39:46):
at my house on the fourth of July for my neighbors.
Nice are you going to play? Because I know you
used to play basketball. Of course I'm gonna play Hell, yes,
that's right. W w n B A okay. So, and
I want to say something about the w n B
A be kids. My son is super into sports, and
my husband's taking to Clippers games and and you know,
you go to a w NBA game and we've seen
(40:08):
the Sparks play a few times. First of all, I
can get great seats, which is the good news and
bad news, but you can um. But they also play
the game of basketball like they're moving the ball around,
They're playing the game and it's so not ego driven driven.
It's just so fascinating to watch because I'm like, oh,
this is how I actually want him to learn basketball
by watching these women. And also he he said it
(40:31):
before I did. He's like, Oh, at the w NBA games,
they have kids come out and dance, but at the
NBA games they have the women in the in the
short skirts and stuff. And I was like, yeah, yeah,
hard to he said, why. I'm like that said so
on a personal note, I'm trying. I'm like getting back
(40:53):
into sports, which I love, and playing sports for just
fun and staying like competitive tournaments at my home for adults.
That sounds amazing. I gotta say, I mean, of all
the things you could have possibly said, posting a basketball tournament,
was not there, and I like being surprised. Roxanne. I've
(41:16):
like painted a core, painted a half court on our driveway.
June Diane Richfield, thank you so much for coming on
the Roxanne Gay Agenda. I couldn't be happier to be here, Roxanne,
thank you so much. You can keep up with me
and the podcast on social media on Twitter at our
game and Instagram at Roxanne Gay seven four. Our email
(41:39):
is Roxanne Gay Agenda at gmail dot com, and we
would love to hear from you from Luminary. The Roxanne
Gay Agenda is produced by Curtis Fox. Our researcher as
Ysenya Moreno. Production support is provided by Caitlin Adams and
Meg Pillow. I am Roxanne Gay, your favorite bad feminists.
Thank you so much for listening.
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