“I TRAIN HOPPED AMERICA FOR 12 YEARS”

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello, Hey, what's up man? How you doing?

Speaker 2 (00:05):
I'm good man. Yeah, it's my day off from work,
hanging out.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
What Uh what's your name, sir?

Speaker 2 (00:12):
My name is Steve.

Speaker 1 (00:14):
What's going on, Steve? What are you doing with your
day off?

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Uh? Right now, I'm just feeding all my animals and
I'm gonna go. There's like this natural spring that I
go to to fill up water jugs. So I'm gonna
go fill up my water.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
Oh cool? How many jugs do you think you're gonna
fill up?

Speaker 2 (00:38):
I got these glass five gallon jugs, and I got
I got three big glass five gallon jugs. Then I
got five one gallon jugs.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
So how many gallons are that in total?

Speaker 2 (00:53):
Like twenty gallons? Dude?

Speaker 1 (00:56):
What's how big is a five gallon jug? That sounds huge?

Speaker 2 (01:01):
I mean yeah, it's yeah, and it's made it they're
all glass, so yeah, they're pretty heavy.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
How is how close is the stream to your house?

Speaker 2 (01:13):
It's like a thirty minute drive. But like when they
were making the road the highway, the people that were
making the road just like tapped into these natural springs
and put these like fountains on top of it, and
it's just delicious clean water just coming out of the ground.

(01:34):
You can just people just pull over off the side
of the road and fill up their water.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
And there's no sediment in there, there's no dirt, there's
no aids.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
No, it's yeah, I mean, do you see the water
coming out? It's just crystal clear cold, fright. It's like
it's literally the best water ever. It's great.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
You kind of sound like you have a very cheats
and show vibe in your voice.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
Oh yeah, man, I mean I got yeah, I got
dreads like past like almost to my stomach, like creamage
to my stomach.

Speaker 1 (02:13):
Why why do you fill up these jugs with water
instead of just like what's wrong with the tap? You know,
because and I this water sounds fucking delicious? But half
hour drive is I mean that's an hour that's an
hour commute.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
Yeah, It's not like I do it every week. You know.
We probably go there like every two months, you know,
like every other month. Well, and we just make like
a family trip out of it, like, oh, we just
go on the dry we fill up the jug. It's
just kind of like, you know, I could see how
it could be seen as inconvenient, but for us, like, yeah,
the water's really good. It's free, it's from the earth,

(02:53):
and you know we kind of just make like a
little trip out of it.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
Who's we.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
Uh, me and my girlfriend and my daughter? You have
this seven year old daughter?

Speaker 1 (03:07):
Oh, very nice house. Having a daughter.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
I mean, like it's cool. It's hard. It's not easy
because you know, I feel like it's just you know,
it's hard being just two people and a baby, not
really having like a big family or like support system.
So there's things that are hard about it. But then
there's things that I really like about it. You know,

(03:34):
like you can kind of like, you know, like I
look at her and I kind of see like a
younger me, you know, and it's like I'm able to
heal my inner child by having a child sometime, you know,
if that make sense?

Speaker 1 (03:47):
Yeah, sure, sure, How what uh maybe this might be
a loaded question, but wh what do you need to
heal about your inner child?

Speaker 2 (04:02):
Well? I feel like I feel like when I was
a kid, I wasn't really like, uh nurtured, you know,
like my parents are really cold and harsh and like
didn't really do things with me. And I feel like
I was kind of like, you know, my inner child
was stifled a little bit like, no, you need to
grow up. You need to you know, like like I

(04:23):
feel like I missed out on a lot of childhood things,
so you know, I like to be there with her
and like do things with her instead of just like, oh,
I give you food, I give you a roof, I
give you clothes, that's it. That's kind of how my
parents were, you know, like they're like, Okay, you know,
we provide you with life and that's it, you know,

(04:46):
so I try to do like more.

Speaker 1 (04:49):
Mmmmmmm right. Yeah, you had parents that just kind of
gave you the things that they were legally obligated to
give you, but didn't actually want to hang out.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
Yeah, yeah, you know, yeah my uh yeah, yeah. I
left home when I was sixteen, you know, but I
started running away when I was probably twelve thirteen years old.
But I didn't leave for good twelve sixteen.

Speaker 1 (05:19):
Why did you start running away?

Speaker 2 (05:24):
My dad is an alcoholic and he's in the military,
and he was like he wasn't very good at separating
his work from his home, you know, like he would
come home and just act still like a drill sergeant,
you know what I mean. Like he was treated his
family kind of like how he would treat the Marines

(05:46):
that he was in charge of. You know, he was
a very harsh man, you know, like my way or
the Highway kind of deal, you know, and like, yeah
he was, yeah, he was. He was pretty mean, you know. So,
and I was homeschooled all of junior high Yeah, yeah, man.

(06:12):
So I started running away just because it felt like
I had a better chance out there than I did
where I was. But ultimately, is like when I was
a young team, like thirteen fourteen running away, eventually I
would have to come home because I would needed food
like that. That. Like there was times where I would

(06:32):
be gone for you know, a couple of weeks, but
I just never could get enough food, so I would
like come crawling back.

Speaker 1 (06:38):
Basically, So you were twelve and you ran away. When
you ran away, where'd you go?

Speaker 2 (06:47):
I mean I was really I used to read so
many books, and I would read a lot of like
wilderness survival books like My Side of the Mountain and like,
you know, just just books whether fantasy or fiction or
like nonfiction where like you know, someone did that where
they could just live off in the woods and like

(07:09):
take care of themselves and stuff. And I mean I
would run away and like be in the woods under
a bridge, you know, like sneaking out, stealing food, you know,
trying to find berries, you know, trying it just never
would work out. You know, it's not really how it
is in the books. You know, you read a book
and there's always like, you know, people always figure because

(07:32):
the story. It's not real life, so people always find
a way. But you know, it's a lot harder than
it seems. And I would always tell myself, you know,
when I'm big enough to take care of myself, I'm
gonna go and I'm not gonna come back. And it
was like probably a month after my sixteenth birthday, I
was like, you know this is you know, I'm old
enough now I can take care of myself. I don't

(07:53):
have to be here. And I mean my parents didn't
try and stop me. I was just like, you know,
I was like, I'm ready to go. I want to go,
and they packed me a backpack and I remember my
mom looked at me. She's the last thing she said
to me, She said, well, what are you going to do?

(08:15):
And I remember looking at her and I just said,
I don't know, but I'm going to do it, you know,
And like That's how it was. I had no idea. Yeah,
my very very strict Christian household, very very sheltered, very
very like in a bubble, you know, like not outside influence.
Like we didn't have cable, we didn't have internet. I'd

(08:37):
never used the computer, you know, Like we were like
very sheltered, you know. So I just went out into
the world, not really knowing what was going to happen,
but I just knew that, like, whatever it was out
there had to be better than where I was at.

Speaker 1 (08:56):
What did you leave with what you have on you?

Speaker 2 (09:00):
I mean I didn't even get to pick. My dad
packed my backpack for me, and it was like my
I had like this oversized school backpack, and I mean
he threw like some clothes in there. I didn't have
a phone, I didn't have a birth certificate, I didn't
have an ID, I didn't have a Social Security card.

(09:21):
It was like a bag with some clothes in it.
And my mom snuck me a twenty dollar bill because
my dad would have freaked out if he knew she
gave me any money. And she gave me a twenty
dollars bill. So that's how I know, That's how I
started my life at sixteen, you know, I had a
backpack with my old school backpack in like sixth grade,
with some clothes in it and a twenty dollar bill.

(09:44):
And I mean, I didn't I didn't know anybody because
I was homeschool. I didn't have any friends to go to.
We were living in Japan at the time. So they
flew me back to the States.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
Wait, you were living in Japan during all this?

Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah, oh for a year. Yeah, for a year. My
dad was in the Marines and we were stationed in Japan,
and I lived in Japan, and we lived in Japan,
and he just put out coming on a plane, flew
me back to the States.

Speaker 1 (10:19):
Okay. So they so when you and when you were
so when you were twelve thirteen and you were first morning,
well yeah it was that was in California, Okay. And
then you're in Japan and you're like, I cannot be
with these people anymore. And so your dad says, well, okay,

(10:39):
then you don't have to, and he packs your bag
with some clothes. Your mom slips you twenty dollars. They
put you on a plane from Japan to to back
to California to lax Okay, and so you land in
Lax and you have no money, you don't know anyone.

Speaker 3 (11:01):
Where do you go?

Speaker 2 (11:02):
What do you do? I ended up on skid row?

Speaker 1 (11:14):
How'd you get there? He walks, He's walk from LA I.

Speaker 2 (11:18):
Mean, I met this guy from Boston out there and
he was basically like, kid, what are you doing? Where
are you going? I was like I don't know? And
he was like, well, I'm going this way to do this.
And I was just like following behind him, and I
mean he led me to skid row and fucking he
turned out to be a crackhead. And uh so we're

(11:42):
like going all up and down skid row. I mean
there's like people laying in their own ship and piss
on the sidewalk and we're like stepping over them. And
like he ends up buying crack. He's sitting there smoking
crack and I remember asked. I was like, hey, can
I have it? He was like I wanted to get
I was like, oh, can I smoke some? And he
was like have you ever smoked this before? And I

(12:03):
said nope, and he said, then you're not going to
do it. And I think about that guy sometimes cause
I'm like, man, you know, my life could have been
on a lot different trajectory if he had it, just
like not given a fucking ben Like, yeah, man here
smoked his crack. Because I was a dumb kid. I
was like, I just lost left my family. I had

(12:24):
smoked weed before. I didn't really know what was going on,
you know. So yeah, he was like, no, you're not
going to smoke this. You've never done it. And he
was like, so what do you do? Like all right,
I smoked weed and he was like all right, And
we went on on skid road just like looking for
a bag of weed. And you wouldn't believe how hard
it was to find a bag of weed. On skid row.
You could find anything but a bag of weed. We

(12:47):
finally found some and I smoked some weed and I
ended up hitting up someone that because I was homeschool
for junior high. But then I went to high school
and I ended up hitting up someone that I went
to high school losing. He came and picked me up
and I stayed with his family for maybe a year

(13:09):
or two. But yeah, and then then my life pretty
much changed completely, all because of a Facebook ad. So
I was like living in southern California. I had been
so I got off skid Row. I was because I
told this guy that I went to go. I was like, man,
I'm on skid Row. I don't know what to do.

(13:30):
So he came and got me. I stayed with him
and his family. Him and his family were really cool.
I ended up getting a job, and I don't know,
life just wasn't I don't know, it was just boring.
And I remember sitting there and I was on Facebook
and I seen this ad for the four twenties Festival
in Denver, Colorado. You know. It was just like I'm

(13:52):
gonna go to this. And my friend was like, dude,
you don't know anybody in Colorado, You've never been to Colorado.
Don't do this. And I just like got two hundred
dollars together, got on a Greyhound and just went to
Denver for the four twenty festival. And like, you know,
I I was always very spontaneous, you know, like I'm

(14:12):
just gonna do something. It doesn't matter what anyone's saying.
I'm just gonna do it, you know what I mean,
Like it doesn't matter how impossible it is, I'm just
gonna do it. That was always my mentality. And so
I go to Denver. And on the bus, I meet
this juggler. Dude. He's covered in face tattoos like you
would like like if you saw me, be like, oh,
this guy is sketchy, this guy, but he was really nice.

(14:35):
He's like this tall guy covering face tattoos. He had
like clown tattoos, like the upside him, triangles under his
eyes and like, you know, like this guy looked crazy.
And he was like, hey, man, like you know, me
and my friends are gonna have this four twenty barbecue.
And I was like, dude, hell yeah, and he's like,
you want to come with me? I mean, we had
been talking on the bus from California to Colorado and

(14:59):
he invited me to their barbecue. So when I got
to Colorad, I didn't even sleep outside one night because
I went straight to their house. It was like this
big Juggalo house where like everybody in there is a
Juggalo and they're having this huge barbecue and smoking weed
and like everyone was super cool, and I like slept
under their kitchen table. Yeah. Sorry, that was a lot.

Speaker 1 (15:27):
No Jesus, no, oh my no, this is this is
uh no, this is a super super fascinating. It's funny
that you bring up Juggalos because you know what, it's
so funny you bring up Juggaloes because as you were,
I'm I'm making a little uh documentary about uh going

(15:48):
to the gathering of the Juggalos last month and everything
you're talking about. I don't know, I don't know why.
But actually, before you even said that you met a Juggalo,
I was thinking about just like your story is kind
of making me think about the gathering of the Juggalos.

(16:10):
So it's weird that I was thinking about it and
then you mentioned that you met a Juggalo because the
Juggalo culture is very like, uh, like bohemian and welcoming
towards you know, people who are are like, you know,
kind of trying to get their footing, you know, so
it's interesting you met one of them.

Speaker 2 (16:32):
Did you.

Speaker 1 (16:34):
Start to get involved in the Juggalo culture at all.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
I've always been a Deadhead, so I was like the
grateful dead and the dead Heads and the Juggalos. We
used to say that they're like they're like brothers, They're
like step brothers. We got the same mom with different deads,
and like on like the service level. You might not
think that dead Heads and Juggalos would get along or

(16:59):
have a lot in common. But like there's a lot
of jugglos and deadheads who were like tight as folks,
you know, like they're like best friend. Like, yeah, I
have a lot of good friends that are Jugglers. You know.
I listened to the music a little bit, but yeah,
definitely more of a deadhead, you know. So I didn't
really get absorbed into it, but I was like alongside
with them.

Speaker 1 (17:20):
So you were, I mean, yes, So you took a
greyhound from California to Colorado, met this juggal on a whim,
the juggle guy. He invites you to this house. There's
all these uh Juggalo people. They're having a party. You
sleep there for a little bit, just on a whim.

(17:41):
The plan was, but I mean, if you hadn't met
this guy, the plan was to just kind of sleep outside.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
Yeah, like I had. Yeah, it was just go to
the four twenty event, and I'm I can talk to
pretty much anybody. I can just walk up to somebody.
I can just see somebody and just like start talking
to them, and you know, so I was just like, yeah,
I'm just gonna go there. It feels right. You'll talk
to some people, you know, but yeah, it was basically

(18:07):
just you know, I've slept outside in California. I was like, yeah,
it's summertime, there's early spring, you know, it's warm enough.
But yeah, I ended up staying with them, and then
I ended up getting a job with a tree service company,
and then I got my own apartment right next door
to there, so like in the same apartment complex, and uh,

(18:32):
which was cool working tree service. I did that in
Denver for like a year, but then yeah, I mean
all all of my roommates and all my coworkers were
drug addicts, so they have to tell like a lot
of things about like you know, like roofing, a lot
of people that do roofing, or like matheaddicts and opiate

(18:56):
addicts and kind of same with like tree service. At
least in my experience, a lot of the people were
meth addicts and heroin addicts. And I still just smoked weed,
didn't drink. But that's how I lost it all was.
I mean, my roommates were my coworkers, we all worked
for the same company, and basically the landlord had enough

(19:18):
of their bullshit, you know, having people coming over at
all weird hours, you know, just cops being called, just
random you know, just random things when you're living with
drug addicts, you know what I mean. So we ended
up my boss ended up well, he was on parole
and he ended up violating his probation because he was

(19:39):
doing drugs, went back to prison, and then none of
us had jobs, and then we lost our apartment. And
because I really wish I had saved more money, because
I was making really good money working for Tree Service,
but I had never had that kind of money before,
so I was just spending it as fast as I

(20:00):
could make it, you know. I didn't have like I'd
never had a reference for the money like that, like
I was. I mean, there was days where we'd make
I'd make a thousand dollars in a day, you know,
and I had no idea what to do with that
kind of money, you know. And at the end of
the day when we got kicked out, I'm sitting there

(20:21):
with all my bags and my cat, and I'm sitting outside.
I don't have nothing. I don't have any money, I
don't have anywhere, you know. So that, yeah, that that
was kind of a life lesson. Was like just because
it's good doesn't mean it always will be good.

Speaker 1 (20:36):
What we tell.

Speaker 2 (20:39):
Oh man. Just like my girlfriend at the time, Like
I like, I like met this girl online that we
were I was mutual friends with, and I like paid
for her to come out there and live with me.
And I mean I was just so I was buying
her so she I didn't she didn't work, so I
would just like go to work and like leave her

(20:59):
money and we eat cigarettes and like go to work
all day. I'd buy dab break, expensive dab brigs, expensive bongs, acid,
you know, shoes, clothes, just like movies, just blowing it,
man like, like literally just spending it. As soon as

(21:19):
I would get it, I would pay rent and I
would just spend it. But yeah, pretty much any day
off I would be downtown, and that's where I met
dirty kids for the first time, like travelers, like basically hippies,
but people that live outside by choice and kind of

(21:42):
just like travel around with what's in their backpack. And
like I would hang out with them, drop some acid
in the park, smoke some weed, and everybody seems so happy.
Man Like, everybody just seems happy. And I was like,
they have nothing. They got no, they don't own anything,
they don't have any stuff. They don't have a house,

(22:04):
and it just seems so happy and like running around
barefoot in the grass with their dogs smoking weed. And
I'd be like I saw that, and I was envious
of it, because like I have to go back to
my apartment. I have to I have to go do
this job. I have to go shovel wood chips all day.
I have to go cut trees, you know what I mean.
I have to go do all these things. But these

(22:25):
people are completely happy just hanging out in the grass.
And basically that's where I went when I got kicked
out of the apartment, didn't have the job, had all
my bags around me, had my little cat. I was
like what do I do? And I was like, all right,
I'm just gonna go down to the park and talk

(22:46):
to those guys. And I went down there and I
was like, hey, you know, I just lost my job.
I just lost my apartment and I don't know what
to do. And they were like, oh, dude, youd hang
out with us. And you know, at the at that point,
still in my mind was like, oh, if you need money,
you get a job. So like I immediately like went
restaurant to restaurant, store, store, Hey, I need a job. Hey,

(23:08):
I need a job. Got a job under the table
at a sushi place in downtown Denver, making cash. The
guy never even asked me my name. I never filled
out a job application. He was just like, oh, can
you start tomorrow. And I started working there, and then
I would just like I would work at the sushi
place and then get on my skateboard and just skate

(23:29):
down to the park, sleep in the park with everybody,
drop acid, smoke weed. Uh. My boss eventually found out
that I was homeless. I didn't tell him, and I
thought I was gonna get fired. He was like, oh,
why didn't you tell me you live outside, because he
seen me out there one night and I was like, oh,
I didn't want you to, you know, fire me. And

(23:51):
he was like, oh well, And then after that he
started getting me a meal every day. So every day
i'd go into work, he'd let me have a meal,
and he'd let me leave my backpack there. He was
really cool. I felt bad when I quit that job,
you know, I really, I really did. I when I
when I told him I was quitting, you know, I
felt I felt pretty bad. But I was like, I

(24:16):
don't know, I was ready. I wanted to go to
San Francisco. And it's kind of crazy, but you hear
about San Francisco and you're like, Oh, it's like a
hippie paradise. You know, that's what you would think. At
least that's what I thought, you know. I was like, Oh,
I'm gonna get there and it's gonna be a bunch
of people like here, smoking weed, hanging out. So I

(24:38):
quit my job and I fucking I started hitchhiking to
San Francisco. And I remember, yeah, I had I didn't
have a backpack. All I had was a pair of shorts, shoes,
a shirt, and a bed sheet because someone stole all
my stuff and I I just like looked at the

(25:01):
map and followed the high start walking down the highway
with my thumb out, and it took me less than
a week to get to San Francisco from Denver. My
first time. That was my first time, like, that was
my first real hitchhiking trip. I had done small ones,
like fifty miles, one hundred miles, but that was my
first real getting your feet wet into it. It was

(25:22):
Denver to San Francisco, and I got to San Francisco
and it was not what I thought. It was cold.
It was very The air is very wet, it's very damp,
it's very cold. In the streets are very harsh. There's
a lot of a lot of hard drugs, a lot
of people with mental illness problems, and a lot of

(25:44):
people on drugs, and just like it wasn't that safe
and it wasn't that fun. So then I I was like,
all right, it's cold, I'm gonna start hitchhiking south. And
that's literally how it all unraveled. Like there was always
another place to go to. There was it was another
thing to do. Like I never like set out like, oh,
this is how I'm gonna live my life. Like it

(26:05):
was just like, oh, I'm gonna go here and do
this thing. And I was like, Oh, this kind of sucks.
I'm gonna go here and do this thing. And so
I ended up in Arizone at the gem Shows, which
I don't know if you've heard about it, but the
Tucson Gem Show is like the world's largest rock and

(26:26):
mineral exhibition, and people from all over the world have
all these different minerals and rocks and gemstones, and everybody's
like hanging out it's a huge thing. It's it's crazy.
And so I was there working at the gem show,
like unloading boxes of rocks, setting up boots, because if

(26:47):
you show up there earlier and you just walk around,
you're like, hey man, you need a hand, you need
a hand, and like you can get a job just
on yeah, unloading rocks, setting up boots. You don't need
an id, just under the tablework. And at the end
of that I heard about a rainbow gathering. I had
never heard. When I first heard about it, I thought

(27:08):
it was a gay thing, and I don't have anything
against gay people, but I was like, oh, you know,
that's probably not for me, and then I realized that
what it was like it's just called rainbow gathering, but
it's like meant to be what society would be like
if there wasn't money or like like it kind of

(27:30):
shows you how like okay, see they pick like a
national forest. Everybody shows up and you learn how to
dig a latrine and put lie in it so everybody
can shit in it and not spread disease. And they
show you how to get water from the river and
purify the water. And you know, there's different kitchens that
show up and make food and you help get firewood,

(27:53):
and they call it leaving Babylon, so you like leave
the sidewalk and you go in the wood and you're
like living in like a little mini society for a
little while. And then they have these gatherings all over
the world, not just the United States. They have them
all over the world, and I went to a lot
of them and they're a lot of fun. But yeah,

(28:21):
I was doing that for probably five years, just hitchhiking
around the United States, going to different rainbow gatherings, doing
different seasonal work, like oh, let's go harvest potatoes, let's
go harvest sugar beets, let's go prim marijuana. You know. Yeah,
I'd do jobs like that, like go to the Pacific

(28:41):
Northwest when I knew everybody was pulling their weed plants,
and you just hang out outside home depots. So like
these towns where people are growing weed up in the mountains,
there's only one home depot for like hundreds of miles,
you know, so any weed farmer has to go to
this home depot. So I would just hang out there
with like some weed trimming scissors in my hand, and

(29:04):
eventually someone will pick you up and be like, oh,
how many pounds can you trim in a day? And
if they like your answer, they'll take you up to
the mountain, provide you with food, room and board, and
you just trim weed all day. And I mean sometimes
for months. You just you're just way up on this mountain,
like no cell phone service, no roads anywhere, like the

(29:30):
type of mountain where in the winter people got to
use snowmobiles to get off it, and you basically just
trust these farmers that they're gonna pay you. And I
mean it was it was nice to get a break
from living on the road, and you know, like for
for at while you can just live in this little

(29:51):
shack on a mountain and trim weed. And it was
cool because I mean there'd be like twelve foot weed
plants hanging from the ceiling. I'd wake up just surrounded
by hanging weed. You wake up and you can smoke
as much weed as you can as long as you
can keep working, and I would just I would just
wake up fucking there'd be like a mason jar full

(30:13):
of oil, dab oil, a roll of fat joint with
some oil on it, smoke it, and you're just covering weed.
Like if the weed sticks to everything, sticks to your socks,
your clothes. I would just wake up twelve foot weed
plants hang from the sea and just grab some colas
start trimming. Yeah, and that was like, yeah, I see

(30:34):
different seasonal jobs Like that is basically how I stayed alive.

Speaker 1 (30:38):
So for those five.

Speaker 4 (30:40):
Years that you were doing this, did you hang on
to anyone or was it really just you for five years?

Speaker 1 (30:52):
Like, do you have any sort of recurring people in
your life over that time?

Speaker 2 (31:01):
I was out there for a total of twelve years.

Speaker 3 (31:07):
Not really.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
I mean the most constant thing in my life was
my dog.

Speaker 1 (31:16):
Your dog went with you everywhere?

Speaker 4 (31:18):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (31:18):
Yeah, I didn't have them in the beginning. I ended
up getting my first dog because I was tired of
getting robbed. Like sleeping was the most dangerous part of
living out there is because people that don't sleep, they're
just out scheming at night looking for people that are
sleeping that they can take advantage of. Like sleeping was

(31:41):
hands down the most dangerous part of living out on
the road, Like, like you just get accustomed to survival,
Like I would have to position my head a certain
way every night when I went to bed, just to
limit the ways that people could walk up on me,
because you don't want someone to just be able to
walk right up on your head, you know. So I
would sleep like with my head to like a big

(32:04):
wall or a rock or a big tree or like
and people. It was serious, man, because you don't know
if you could be sleeping and then all of a
sudden someone's stealing your shoes in your backpack and like whatever.
You know, So I got I got tired of waking
up with no shoes, waking up with no backpack. So

(32:25):
I got my first dog and I never got robbed
in my sleep again. I made a deal with my dog.
I was like, hey, you know, I'll love you. I'll
give you the comfort that you need, the food, the water.
You just help me and not get robbed in my
sleep anymore. But I have my dog, go Ryd. He's

(32:45):
my second. My first dog that I had on the
road got stolen and it was one of the hardest
things I had to go through. Yeah, I hopped my
very first freight train with that dog because that's the day.
I went hitchhiking for maybe five years and then I

(33:09):
met some trainhoppers. So I was in Manitou Springs, Colorado,
which is this beautiful little mountaintown and Pike's Peak National Floors.
That place has natural soda water, so like kind of
like the water that I have here in Oregon, it's

(33:32):
instead over there, it's carbonated, so it's like natural soda
mineral water just coming out of the ground. And there's
all these fountains, and different fountains have different levels of
carbonation and like minerals, so they all taste different.

Speaker 1 (33:48):
Did I asked real quick about So this first dog
that was stolen, what kind of dog was it?

Speaker 2 (33:54):
She was like, uh, what people would call like a
red dog like she kind of looked like coyote mixed
like random desert looking dog like. She was like she
was vicious because she's like a tiny little like I
don't even like a brown dog with plenty years, like

(34:16):
kind of like the dogs that you'll see like around
native reservations in the south, what like in the desert areas.

Speaker 1 (34:23):
How did you connect with this dog? How'd you find her?

Speaker 2 (34:27):
Oh? I was at this truck stop and there was
these other travelers there, and I walked up and there
and the dog ran away from them and jumped into
my arms, and I'm holding his dog I'm like, what
the fuck, And the people were like, dude, that's not
our dog. We rescue that dog. That dog hates everybody.

(34:48):
And I didn't really understand what they meant by this
dog hates everybody, because this dog's in my arms, and
like the night we all camped together, and in the
next day they're like, dude, you know you can have
that dog. So I kept the dog, and then I
realized what they meant by she hates. She would bite anybody,
a child, an old lady, a woman, a man, anyone.

(35:10):
And she wouldn't growl, she wouldn't bark. She would just
lunge and attack them. And like like if someone was
trying to hand me money, I would have to walk
away from the dog and take the money. If like
someone was trying to give me a fist bump or
a handshake or anything, I would have to walk away
from the dog. Like people like drunk people like drunk
women would come out of the bars and be like,

(35:30):
oh my god, can I pet your dog. I'd be
like no, and then they would be like no, dogs
love me, and then it get bit or people wouldn't ask.
I'd be standing there and like turn away and someone
would try to pet my dog, and I mean that
was the dangerous part. She wouldn't give any warnings. She
wouldn't growl, she wouldn't bark, she would just bite. So

(35:51):
then I understood what those people meant by this dog
hates everybody. Like I don't know, It was like that
dog knew me. It was like like I just walked
up the truck stop and it just ran and jumped
into my arms. And like I didn't understand how important
that was when I first met the dog, but then
after being with her for so long, I was like, Oh,

(36:12):
that was really special, you know, like this dog hates everything.

Speaker 1 (36:17):
Wow, that's so fast. I truly wonder what it must
have been. Do you have any idea, any hypothesis, anything
at all about what it was about you as a
stranger in that moment that she connected with you over
anyone else.

Speaker 2 (36:34):
I don't. I had never even had a dog, Like
when I was a kid, my parents never got me
a dog. I had only ever had cats. I have
literally no It was like the dog knew me. It
was like I just walked up and it was like
it knew me, and it just ran to me and
just jumped in my arms and like, and then they

(36:55):
we were camping, and I remember like laying there in
my camp just thinking about that dog. I'm like, message,
an awesome dog. She's so cool. And then the next
morning they were like, man, we thought about it, and
we think you should have this dog because they had
their own dogs, and that was like it was like
a dog that they were just like helping out because

(37:16):
they needed them at that moment. And yeah, and I
hitchhiked around with her and then yeah, like I said,
we were in Manitu Springs and I was living in
a cave in the mountains. There's like and there was

(37:37):
like a stream in front of the cave, and I
would wash my clothes in there. If I'd take my clothes,
put them in the river, put the rocks on them,
and he just let the river be like a washing
machine and wash my clothes. And the cave was like
made of clay and it went really deep, so it
was nice and cool in the summer. And there'd be
like a dozen of us in there eating mesculine, eating acid,

(38:00):
eating mushrooms, just living in this cave. And then we'd
go out at night into the town and like play
music and get leftovers, bring the food back to the cave,
share it with everybody. But I ended up meeting some
train hoppers and they came there staying in the cave
and we had a fire and we're all sitting around

(38:21):
the fire and they're telling me all these stories about
Ryan trains and I was like hanging on every word,
like it sounded like the ultimate adventure, you know, like
it was insane. Like I was like wow. And then
I hung out with them for a couple of days
and then they were going to leave, and I was like, Oh,
where are you guys going And they're like, oh, we're

(38:42):
going to Pleblu, Colorado to hop out of here. And
then and then they were like, do you want to
come with us? And me, I was like yes. And
so many times in my life I'm glad I took
opportunities like this where it's just like it changed and
it changed the entire trajectory of my life. Just saying yes.

(39:05):
It was like taking a chance, you know what I mean, Like,
even if it seems crazy, even if everyone's telling you
not to, just taking that chance because you never know
how what doors it's going to open. And yeah, hopping
my first train was one of the most terrifying things
I've ever done. It was very scary. Yes, uh, he

(39:30):
has a guy. His name was Scruffle up Agains, and
then the lady, her name was Mama Red. And they
brought me on my first train. Why it's so scary,
It was scary. Okay. So there was like eight of
us with just as many dogs. Okay, in the nighttime.
We've been waiting in this train yard for days. We're

(39:53):
trying to go east. And so Scruffy had told me,
he said, hey, the railroad police, the railroad workers, the
bull they're like a t rex. If you don't move,
they won't see you. That's what he told me. He said,
don't move. If you don't move, they're not gonna see you.

(40:14):
And like everybody wore like neutral colors, you know, like
earth tones, browns, grays, dark greens. Everybody had like a
bandana over their face and a hood pulled up and
you know what I mean, like it was serious. We're
all hiding in the shadows. Well, the train pulls up
and it's an old junk train, like a grain train

(40:36):
that they filled with grains, and you know, they got
oil tankers, maybe a couple of box cars. Now we
all climb on this train and we're laying there on
the grainer porch. It's hard to describe. It's like they
got these cars that they filled with good. They opened
the top and fill them with grain. But then at

(40:57):
the bottom there's like a ladder in some there's a
little platform right there you can lay on. And so
we're laying there. And as I'm laying there waiting for
the train to leave, I got my dog, I got
my backpack on. I'm holding my dog to my chest,
I got my bandan over my face, I got my
hood pulled up. And I'm laying there and I hear
the rocks crunching, because there's all these rocks along the

(41:20):
railroad tracks. And I hear him crunching. Someone's walking towards me,
and I look down the side of the train and
I see a railroad worker coming down with a lantern.
He's shining his light at each of the grainer porches,
walking closer and closer and closer. And I walked up
the guy next to me. I was like, dude, I'm
gonna get out of here. Because on the other side
of the train there was like an opening in the

(41:43):
fence and there was a big abandoned building and I
was like, I'm gonna get up and I'm gonna go.
And he said, no, remember what Scruffy told you. If
you don't move, they won't see you. And I was like, dude,
that's crazy, Like just lay down. So I'm laying there.
My heart's racing. I'm holding my dog and the crunching
is getting left and the louder and the udder and
I'm laying there and I'm eye level to this guy.

(42:04):
He shines the light right on me. He's looking me
dead in my eyes. And then he just puts the
light down and just keeps walking. My heart felt like
it was gonna come out of my mouth, like it
was like and I'm just holding my dog as tight
as I can, and then the train shakes. We go backwards,
and then it screeches, and then we start moving and

(42:27):
then we start moving faster, and the wind's blowing and
remem I was just I'm holding the railing and I'm
like sticking my head out and the wind's blowing and
the brake dust. You can smell the brake dust on
the train, and like every time it goes around a curve,
he like screeches and like, oh man, that first train

(42:49):
ride was just like exhilarating. I was. As soon as
I did, I was like, I am gonna do more
of this. And it was kind of crazy because the
train didn't go east. It went back to Denver, and
I had tried so hard to leave Denver, like I
it took me forever to get to Manitu Springs, and

(43:12):
I just ended up all the way back in Denver.
But those guys, they drank too much alcohol for me,
so they like, you know, they it was funny. Everybody
has like a funny name out there, and they were
calling me. My name is Trip out there, and they
would call me Trip to Shwilly because like a swilly

(43:35):
kid is someone that drinks a lot of alcohol. And
I didn't drink any alcohol, so they gave me the
name Trip the Swilly, which was funny because I just
didn't drink at all and everyone drank a lot of booze.
So I like left and like the first few trains
I hopped, I just like I was terrified of doing

(43:55):
it during the daytime, so I'd only do it at night.
And I didn't even know which way it was going,
you know, like that was a beautiful time in life,
like not having anywhere to go, You're just living, You're
just going to go, you know what. Like I would
just get on the train just because I know it's leaving.
And it took me years to like figure out which

(44:19):
ones are going, what way, why they're going that way?
You know. Yeah, all in all, I was out there
for twelve years.

Speaker 4 (44:36):
Man.

Speaker 2 (44:38):
Yeah. I rode trains every corner of the United States.
I rode freight all throughout, all through the United States
and Canada. I eventually did Canada because I was like bored.
It was kind of like riding a taxi, Like it
got so predictable. I just knew. I knew where the

(44:59):
train was stop, I knew where it was going to go.
I knew what to expect. I knew when to hide,
I knew when not to hide. I knew when to run.
That's the thing you got to when you're riding freight.
You gotta know when to run and when to hide.
And it just got blady, got mundane to me. It
was like I know what to expect. This was after
years and years. So then me and my current dog,

(45:21):
my dog O'Ryan, where I still have him. He's he's
eleven years old now. But me and him rode into Canada,
no idea, no passport, and we started Vermont, rode into Montreal,
and then we rode all the way to Vancouver and

(45:41):
then walked over the border. And it's one it's one
of my greatest achieved Honestly, I think it's my best
adventure ever, you know, because everybody told me not to
do it. They're like, dude, don't do it. You're gonna
get deported. Don't do that. It's insane. And I was like,

(46:03):
I gotta do it. And I pretty much asked anybody
I could, any trainhoper I met before I went up there,
I was like, hey, have you ever been to Canada?
Do you know anybody that's been to Canada? You know,
I wanted to know, how'd you get up there? How
long did you stay up there? Did you get deported?
Why'd you get deported? How'd you get caught? You know.

(46:25):
I just talked to anybody I met, you know, and
I just put all the information together and I learned
a lot, you know. I learned, you know, Canada really
doesn't like public drinking. So a lot of these kids
that were riding trains up there. They were getting arrested
and deported because they were like publicly intoxicated.

Speaker 1 (46:48):
But where would they even send you when you got deported.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
I mean they would hold Like I didn't get deported,
but they I mean they would hold you in jail
and then send you back to America. I'm not sure
where exactly, but maybe just right over the border. I'm
not sure exactly, but I know that they Yeah, they
would just hold you and then bring you back. And
that's like the ultimate failure. You fail, you know, I

(47:16):
wanted My goal was yeah, Montreal to Vancouver, and I
did it in three trains, and I mean I had to.
I ran from the Mounties three times, lied to them
and got out of it once. One other time. I
was up there for like two months. I met some
amazing people, dude people up there. But you hear that

(47:37):
Cano Canadians are stereotypically nice. They fucking work. Like I met,
I met some like I'd just be walking and people
would just like put money out the window. They'd just
be like, here, man, I'm just walking down this show.
I'm like, man, I must look rough, I must look
like I need it. Fucking yeah, I met some amazing people.

(48:00):
I met people that that's the thing about living out there,
man with no money and just like you just got
what's on your back. The people that hang out with
you and the people that stopped to talk to you,
you know that it's because they actually want to talk
to you and you they think you're a cool person.
It's not because you've got something they needs, not because

(48:23):
you've got coke at a party. It's not because you
got a nice car. It's not because you got a
nice job. It's not because they think that you you're
well loved. You know. Like I felt like I've met
a lot more down to earth and real people because
it put me in those situations to meet those people.
Because I mean, dude, for so long, I was the
kind of person that you if someone saw me, they

(48:44):
usually didn't look at me twice. They weren't even look
at me once. So if someone stopped and got on
my level to talk to me, a lot of times
they'd be like, dude, you're fucking cool as hell. They're like,
you're an actual person, you know. And that's the thing
is like it's easy to look out your car window
and see someone on the streets and be like, oh,
I know what their situation is. Oh, they could have

(49:07):
done X, Y and Z to get out of this.
They could, you know, but you don't know what they're
going through. You don't know what kind of childhood trauma
they got. You don't know how hard it is to
get a Social Security card when you've been chronically homeless
for over a decade. You know, there's a lot. I
just wish people had more compassion, and I wish that

(49:27):
they could see that they're you know, the people living
outside aren't your enemy. Those are your neighbors. You know,
those are your neighbors. Like we're all, You're not any
better than anyone just because you have something and they don't.

Speaker 1 (49:43):
So well, I want to get into this. So you
were doing this for twelve years from yes, like from
about sixteen to twenty eight.

Speaker 2 (49:54):
Yeah, and now you have.

Speaker 1 (49:58):
A kid, and it sounds like you got a you know,
you got a car, and you are like, I.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
Still haven't got a That's the crazy thing is I'm yeah,
I've never had a driver's license, and I'm kind of I.

Speaker 1 (50:14):
Guess, sorry, I guess I I only I only assumed
that because I thought you were driving to this uh,
spring when we first started talking with THEE.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
Yeah, my girlfriend does the drive. I mean, I have
a bike, and I bike, but we live in a
small town where I can pretty much, you know. I
bike to work, I bike to the food bank. I bike.
I bike a lot, and I don't know cars giving
me a lot of anxiety and I and I never
learned how to drive, and I just don't really have

(50:44):
an interest in doing it. And my life's not really
you know, like I get around, I don't really. I
don't know a lot of people, you know, their cars,
like their personality and like their manness and like their
masculine you know what I mean. But I don't. I
don't attach that to to yeah, a big piece of machinery.

Speaker 1 (51:02):
So well, what I was gonna say is, Okay, so
when you were twenty eight, like, uh, how'd you meet
uh the person you're with now? And then how do
you have a kid? And you see it, is it
accurate to say that you're less nomadic than you were
at that time?

Speaker 2 (51:22):
Now? Yeah? Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 1 (51:25):
How do you know kind of I want to hear
about that transition.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
Oh it's kind of funny. I met my girlfriend on
Instagram and I like followed one of her friends on Instagram,
and then I seen her in a picture and I
was like, man, she's cute, like little, dark haired, dready girl.
And I was like, I just messaged her and I

(51:56):
was I didn't even say anything. I just sent her
a picture of me a cardboard sign that said blah
blah bump stuff, and I just sent it to her.
And then we started talking and I asked her. I
was like, hey, you ever ride trains? And that was
like my pickup line, was like, hey, you ever ride freight?
And she had only ever hitchhiked, and so we met

(52:18):
up to ride trains. And when we were living inside
of a bridge, like uh like literally inside of it,
Like a lot of the infrastructure around the city is
built hollow to make it cheaper. And we had found

(52:38):
a little door that led inside of a bridge, and
I got my own walk and replaced it, and we
were just living in there, and she got pregnant, and
you know, she asked me if I would go back
home to her home in Ohio and be a dad,
and I at the time, I was, you know, I

(53:02):
was like, no, I'm gonna ride trains. I'm gonna keep
riding trains, Like, you're crazy to think that we can
be parents. I don't even have I was like, how
could I That was the main thing in my head,
was like, how could I be a dad if I
don't even know what it's like to be to have
a good dad. You know, my parents were terrible little mods.
I didn't know, Like I still have problems with my

(53:24):
own dealing with my own childhood. How could I be
a dad? You know? Those are all the things that
were running I'm like, we live in a wall, we
eat garbage, I shower once a month. I'm like, you
cannot be parents, you know what I mean? And those, yeah,
those are the kinds of things that were running through
my head. And so I told her no, I said,
I'm gonna stay. I'm gonna keep Ryan trains. So she

(53:49):
went to the Greyhound and she got a Greyhound. She
went home to Ohio, and then a while later she
told me, hey, I'm gonna have the baby. The baby
was born December third, when I rode trains in the
middle of winter to Ohio and I saw the baby
being born. I held my daughter and then I left.

(54:10):
And you know a lot of people say they're like, oh,
when you hold your kid for the first time, something changes,
you know what I mean. It didn't change for me
right away, you know. It wasn't like this magic thing like,
oh you see the kid, all of a sudden, You're
gonna make it work. And I feel like it would
have been selfish of me to try to make it
work because I knew I wasn't ready, Like I knew.
I knew if I stay, I'm gonna go. And I

(54:34):
didn't want to do that to them, you know what
I mean. I felt like it was better to be
away than to be there just to rip it all away,
you know what I'm saying. So so I kept Bryan trains,
kept traveling, and I probably would still be out there

(54:55):
if it wasn't for some really nice people that I
met off Reddit, of all places. But yeah, I mean, yeah,
there was this. I used to post a lot on Reddit.
I don't anymore, but I used to post a lot
on a lot on there about me riding trains and stuff,
and people would follow my adventures and donate money to

(55:16):
me because I'd be you know, And there's this person
who lived in Sacramento, and it was like pretty much
every week she'd send me like fifty to one hundred dollars,
Like it was crazy. I was like, this is insane.
And then I'm in Oregon picking mushrooms around Thanksgiving and

(55:39):
she messages me and she's like, hey, do you want
to come to Thanksgiving dinner? And I sat there and
thought about it. I was like, I literally could not
remember the last time anybody had invited me to a
Thanksgiving dinner, Like it had been years and years and
years and years. Like every holiday for me was just
a Wednesday, it was just a Tuesday. It was Oh,

(56:01):
I'm behind this gas station, you know, And it meant
a lot that they invited me. So I went down there.
I got on the train, rode down the Sacramento from
Portland and I got there and I was only supposed
to be there for a day or two. These people
had a nice house, tons of money, kids, just regular

(56:23):
people and they liked me so much, and I liked
them that they were like, you know, she asked me,
she said, you know, if you can have anything, what
do you need right now? And like she asked me,
like what do you need? And I told her I
was like, I'm tired, you know, I'm tired. I was

(56:43):
like I need to rest. I need to just I
need to just relax and rest. And so they literally
sold their house and bought a bigger house that had
an extra bedroom, and I stayed with them for a
couple of years and learned how to live inside again.
It was hard because I would I would pack all

(57:04):
my stuff and leave it and I'd go ride trains
and then I'd just like feel like I was stuck
in this revolving door. You know. I was like, there's
nothing out here from me. I've already done it, I've
already seen it. And I would end up going back
and staying with them, and that kind of went on
for a couple of years, just going back, leaving, going back. Well,

(57:30):
you know, I had to I had to learn how
to be stagnant. I had to learn how to because
that's the thing is when you're when you're go, go go.
Because I would never stay anywhere more than three days.
Usually anytime anything got bad, you just go. And you
when you stop, everything you were going from catches up
to you. You think you have to deal with stuff,

(57:52):
you know. So like if I didn't have that time
to be in that safe space with them, I don't
know if I could have been to Dad and been
here with my family, because you know, I would have
just left. If I had gone there, I wouldn't have
been ready and I would have just left. So they
gave me, like the no judgmental, unconditional love. I had

(58:15):
never known unconditional love. They gave me unconditional love like
you know, you deserve love. That was a lot of things.
Was my self worth, you know, I felt like I
deserved to live on the streets. I felt like I
deserved to be on the sidewalk. I felt like I
deserved to be cold. I felt like, you know, like

(58:36):
my self worth was so little, you know, like I
just I thought, that's always my life was always supposed
to be. And anyway, I had this room I had.
They paid for my food like weed, They paid for
everything is Yeah, this is.

Speaker 1 (58:55):
Just a random family that you met on Reddit from
from sharing adventures on one.

Speaker 2 (59:03):
They showed me more love than my own family ever had. Yeah,
they showed they showed me compassion, They showed me that
I could love myself like and it just blowed my
mind like my own family. Because that's why I struggled
with so long. Was like, you know, I don't deserve love.
My own family could love me. My own family doesn't

(59:26):
know if I'm alive or dead, you know, and like
how could anyone else, hm, you know, the so I
had to deal with that. But yeah, they gave me
the space to just work everything out, work through the drama.
It gave me the space to just be myself, you know.

(59:48):
And and I still but I got through it, and
I still wasn't happy. I felt like something was missing,
Like I was sitting there sun shining, a beautiful house,
fridge full of food, I mean, and I still wasn't happy,
like there was something there was something missing in my life.
And I realized, you know, ten years are gonna go

(01:00:09):
buy it quick. My kid's gonna grow up, not gonna
know me, not gonna want to know me. You know.
The time's gonna go by fast. And so yeah, me
and their mom reconnected, and so he asked me if
I wanted to come see them, And I thought that

(01:00:29):
I was only gonna visit, like I didn't think that
it was gonna be a whole thing. And so I
I went to one last music festival I went to
Hardly Strictly in San Francisco. It's one of the only
things I'll go. I used to go to San Francisco's
four was there's an annual free bluegrass show and Golden
Gate Park called Hardly Strictly, and it's it's like three

(01:00:54):
days of live music. They got all the live stages
and food and like it's a really chill time. They
clean out Golden Gate Park and then it's just like
a bluegrass show. It's been free forever, like since they've
been having it. It's awesome. And I went there, had
a great time, went to the day, hopped out and

(01:01:14):
I rode trains from basically Oakland to Florida, and then
I got on a bus from Florida up to North
Carolina where they were staying in Section eight housing and
I mean, man, they were they were like living in
the projects. They were like living off government vouchers and

(01:01:38):
like this giant Honeycomb apartment complex. My kid was running around.
There's I've never seen a cockroach infestations so bad. My
kid's running around just like catching cockroaches, you know. And
I'm there and I'm like, you know, I couldn't leave.
Like I thought. I was just going there to see
them and the visit. But once I got out there,

(01:02:00):
like I'm looking at my daughter and she's looking at me,
and it was like I was looking at myself, and
I couldn't just leave, you know, like I couldn't just
leave them to live like that. And I stayed there
for a year. Yeah. Now we live in Oregon and

(01:02:26):
we live we live in like a duplex, so it's
not like a giant apartment. We have like a shared backyard.
We live less than a mile from the beach. I
live like right on the beach, you know. I work
at a resort as a housekeeper. And that was the

(01:02:46):
hard thing, is you know, living that long without having
a job or like being a part of society, and
like that's probably some of the hardest parts. It's just yeah,
like and I got a problem with authority, so having
people telling me what to do, and just like it's

(01:03:07):
hard working for money. When i'd be you know, like
when you're on When I would live on the road,
people would see me and they'd be like, oh, you're
a road warrior. You're traveling. Like a lot of people
didn't see me like a regular homeless person per se.
You know, they would be like, oh, you're the traveler,
you know, So they'd want to help me out because
I'm leaving. So it's hard sometimes when it's like, yeah,

(01:03:28):
people used to just throw money in food at me,
but now I fucking scrub toilet's first food and money.
But but it's worth it, man, It's word. That's all
I got to keep telling myself is that it's worth it.
Because you know, when I was out there on the
road one time, this older guy told me, he said,

(01:03:49):
you know, it's their good adventure, but it's not a
good life. And I laughed in his face and I said,
you're an idiot, old man, you don't know what you're
talking talking about. And then the older I got, the
more I realized he was right, Like it's it's not
sustainable to live like that. Like I think everyone should,

(01:04:11):
you know, maybe hitch like a thousand miles. Maybe you know,
like maybe go maybe you could just take a break
and just like rely on yourself and go have an adventure.
But I don't think it's a good it's not a
good life. And yeah, it took some grown up to
kind of come to those towns, you know, m it's

(01:04:33):
a good life, yeah man, yeah, yeah, And almost everybody
that I knew is dead, like from alcoholism or fetanyl,
or they're in prison, or they got cut in half
by a train. Like there was a lot like a

(01:04:54):
lot of people that I knew would drink a lot
of alcohol, do heroin and go hop and then get
their arm cut off, get their leg cut off, get
cut in half, get paralyzed, like yeah, I got yeah.
And the crazy thing is like I knew that I

(01:05:15):
could die any moment out there, but I didn't really
have I was just living to live. I didn't really
like think about five years in the future or ten
years in the future. It was just day to day,
like what do I need today? What does my dog
need today? You know, like but now and now I worry.
But now I sit here and I think about ten

(01:05:35):
years from now, I think about five years from now.
It's yeah, it's a lot different. And yeah, the other
day I saw some train hoppers here just like hang
I was. I got off work, went to bike home

(01:05:55):
and I seen I just start crying, and I was like,
can I just talk cold you guys, because like they
got up there, liked you, gonna give you a hug,
and you're just like the random you was just hugging
me and I'm like, like, man, I wish I could
be still just sitting here with my dog, but at
the same time, like I know that I have to

(01:06:16):
be here in that part of my life's over. M
hmmmm mm hmm. Yeah, man, I've wanted to talk to
you for a long time.

Speaker 1 (01:06:29):
I'm so glad you did. Oh man, oh man, hm
hmmm mm hmmm. So you've been with your family for
a year.

Speaker 2 (01:06:43):
Yeah, you know, it's been about a year.

Speaker 1 (01:06:46):
And hm hmm. How are you feeling like when you so,
you say you haven't Uh, you're kind of new to
thinking about the future. And when you are thinking about
the future, what are your feelings about it? Are you excited?
Are you nervous? Are you you know? How do you

(01:07:10):
How do you feel when you think about the future.

Speaker 2 (01:07:13):
I'm excited because there's you know, like I used to
be really suicidal, you know. I used to I just
want to die, and now I just want to live.
And I wish that I could go and tell myself
in the past, like, hey, it's not always going to
be like this. It's going to get better, you know,
because it does. And it's hard when you're in it

(01:07:35):
to see that. But I worry man, I worry because
I don't. I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:07:42):
I don't want my.

Speaker 2 (01:07:45):
I work so hard, and I just want my daughter
to like do good in life. And I don't want
her to work as hard as I do, and like
I wanted life to be as hard as mine is,
and like I just worry that no matter how hard
I try, that it's just like genetic where because we're poor,
they're like, she's not gonna have a good chance in life,

(01:08:06):
you know, And I know I can't think like that,
but like, you.

Speaker 1 (01:08:10):
Know, well, ok, well bro, I mean we'll think about
it like this, man, I mean, you know, well, well,
I have a few things I want to say, but
I want to have you. Have you seen your parents
since you were sixteen? Have you talked to them at all?

Speaker 2 (01:08:30):
I went, yeah. They lived in North Carolina. And when
I went to see my my daughter and my girlfriend,
I just showed up. I didn't tell them I was
coming because I had no contact with him, and I
just showed up. And I confronted my dad with a
lot of things. And I just really don't like the

(01:08:51):
answer that he had for me, because I was, you know,
I was like, dude, I was basically like, why were
you so hard on me? Like, you know, like why
did you just throw me around? Why did you scream
at me? Why why were you sent me? Like? Well,
and he's all he had to say was that his
dad was an alcoholic and his dad was meaning him.

(01:09:13):
He was like, that's not good enough because my dad
was an alcoholic. My dad beat the shit out of me,
and I don't do that to my kid, you know.
So I just felt like it just wasn't good enough,
like and I told him, I don't forgive you, like
that's not but that's not good enough. That's not enough.

Speaker 1 (01:09:33):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:09:34):
I thought I would have closure, but it's just like
you know, and I would tell him things like, oh,
you know, this traumatic thing that happened in my childhood
still affects me today. And I would tell him about it,
and then he'd just say, oh, I don't remember that,
Oh that didn't happen, and what do you mean it
did happen? Like this, this is something that shaved my

(01:09:56):
whole life and you're telling me it didn't happen. And
you know, they're really really really like ultra evangelical Christians,
So like all he ever says is, Oh, that's the devil.
That's the devil in your head telling you things. Anything
good that happens, oh that was God. Anything bad that happens,

(01:10:18):
Oh that's the devil. That's the devil putting lines in
your head to trick you. And it's like the ultimate
you gotta gaslight me with some fucking demons and shit,
you know. So it was just they basically acted like
I died, Like they had all these pictures of me

(01:10:40):
from when I was a kid, and just like they've
just always been waiting, like the product the story of
the Prodigal Sun, you know, like waiting for the son
to just like come back. And my dad told me,
you know, like he kept setting like timelines. Okay, by
the time he's twenty, he'll come back and he'll have
his share, he'll he'll have his fellow sin out there

(01:11:02):
in the world and he'll just come back. Oh nope,
okay by twenty two, he'll oh by twenty five. And
I'm like, yeah, I've always been here. But I mean,
like who I am is who I am. They just
don't accept me for who I am. And it's okay
to cut off your family, you know, that's what is.

(01:11:22):
It's hard, but sometimes your family is just like it's
better to be away from them and it's better to
not talk to them, and it's hard, you know. Like
like the other day, I was biking home from work
and I saw this guy my age in a driveway
with an older guy that looked like his dad, and

(01:11:43):
they're sitting shooting some hoops, and I just I just
think about I'm like, what would it be like, you know,
to just build a thing out with my dad and
you just like talk to him just like normal people.
That's all I ever wanted. They just wanted to be
a normal person having life.

Speaker 1 (01:12:03):
Mm hmm, well let me let me, let me let
me I mean, well, let me tell you something, man.
This is just from my vantage point here is like
I can tell how uh, I can tell how deeply

(01:12:24):
you you really really really care about your daughter, uh
not having had it as as rough as you and
I'm I'm I'm really really sorry that you had to
you had it this rough. But I'll say that the

(01:12:46):
good news is is that I know that you're like
really anxious and worried about your daughter having a nice
life and not having to have dealt with the things
that you had to tear with but you're in a
really like great position where like I mean, bro, like

(01:13:06):
you you're fucking there, you know, like you're fucking there,
you know, and whether or not regardless of of of
whatever material resources you you you do or don't have,
or your daughter, like you're you're sucking there. Man, You're
there and you care and you love her, you know,

(01:13:30):
and that's that's it, right, So I think that like
I don't, I don't think you have to worry about
whether or not your daughter is gonna feel like you

(01:13:52):
were there for her and and and it's and it's nice, man,
it's it's like, it fucking sucks ship that your your
dad came back to you with like, oh well my
dad was like this and his dad was like that.
I'm sure his fucking dad was. And I'm sure you're
a part of a fucking long cycle of like you know,

(01:14:13):
absentinis and it's like it's fucking sucks shit. And I
I really I'm sorry. I feel your pain that you
are a part of that cycle. But you have this
I'm not even gonna say opportunity because it's it's something
you're doing. It's not even an opportunity. It's just it's
it's your life, you know, it's it's it's it's embodied
and expressed by the decisions that you've made to be

(01:14:37):
there with your kid where you're doing this really tremendously powerful, beautiful,
amazing thing, where you're breaking the cycle because you're fucking
there for your daughter. You know, you got you get
in the car and you're going to the spring and
you're filling up water, you know, like you're fucking there,

(01:14:59):
you know. So again, I'm I'm really I'm really sorry
that you, like I can feel that you feel a
lot of pain at being part of the cycle. But uh, brother,
I'm I'm very very proud of you and very I
deeply deeply commend you for breaking the cycle and being

(01:15:21):
there for your daughter and giving a ship and going
back and you know and being here. And I and
I hope that you know, I know from what you've
expressed that you've had a lot of you know, self image,
uh problems, and I and I really hope and I really,

(01:15:41):
uh I want you to understand that, like, bro, you're
like you're you're beautiful, you know, like it's it's a
beautiful thing that you're you're. I I don't even want
to say doing. It's like you're it's like you're living it.
Uh And and I hope you feel good. I hope
that makes you feel good. I hope that makes you,

(01:16:01):
uh sleep easy at night when when you're when you're
in the house with your family, with your daughter, that
you're you're there and uh I and life gets hard
and you sometimes you try to do shit and it
doesn't always work, but like you're trying, you know, you're.

Speaker 2 (01:16:16):
Not just like.

Speaker 1 (01:16:19):
Doing what your dad did, like your your dad came
back to you man with it, with the yeah, with
the bullshit excuse of like, well my dad was like
this and that that that that fucked you up and
you and you know you could have easily done that
to your daughter, but you didn't because you're because you're
because you're a fucking because you're a great guy. So
I I uh, I hope I hope you recognize that

(01:16:42):
about yourself and and that you feel that and you
understand that, and you let that be a thing that
lets you live your life a little bit lighter and
a little bit less anxious and heavy. That you understand
that you're you're doing all the right stuff and that you,

(01:17:06):
and you and you and you don't don't beat yourself
up if everything doesn't go fucking perfectly, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:17:13):
Yeah, trouble is I think when when things are going
really good, I'm just always worried that they're about to
fall apart. And I think, I think that's just that's
something I got to work through, you know. I'm always
like like like when things are good, I'm like, oh no,
you know, I'm like, oh no, what's what's gonna happen?

(01:17:34):
And then nothing happens. I think that it's just it's
just it's just me.

Speaker 1 (01:17:42):
You said your daughter is seven, now, yeah, she's.

Speaker 2 (01:17:45):
About to be. Yeah, she's almost seven to start first grade?

Speaker 1 (01:17:49):
Cool, how's she doing? Like, what's what's she? What's she into?
What's her? What's her? How's she doing?

Speaker 2 (01:18:01):
She's doing good? I just she is struggling in school already,
and I see a lot of myself and her, and
I just, yeah, I just want her to do good
in school. But she and I mean, the problems that
she has is like what I think would be normal.
She just like wants to be a kid. She wants

(01:18:21):
to do what she wants to do, and she has trouble,
like listening to authority and like following structure and guide
and you know, they're just trying to put her into
the meat grinder of school. You know how, you know,
you either stit or you don't. So I feel like,
like I like that she can socialize with other kids
because that was something I missed out on. You know,

(01:18:43):
I didn't really get to have friends or socialize with
people my own age, So I think that's important for her.
But yeah, she I mean, at this stage, she's just
like obsessed with like cats and legos and uh, we
have pet roly polis, which is pretty cool. Most people

(01:19:07):
are like, what what do you mean? You have petroly
like little isopods, little roly pulleys. We have like there's
like a community of people that keep like exotic ones
that have different colors, and we have like white ones
with yellow and black spots, and we have zebra ones
that are black with white stripes. And I don't know.

(01:19:30):
When I was a kid, I was really into bugs
and shit, and dude, if my dad had to show
any interest in anything that I like like that, that
would have been huge. So yeah, we live in like
a tiny town with a lot of like trees, and
forests and stuff around. So I take her out on
hikes and go on hikes and I try to teach her.

(01:19:54):
We feed the crows. There's crow met here. We'll go
feed the crows together, and I try to teach her
know to respect nature and all life is valuable, even
if it's small, its life still has value, you know.
So we go rock hound. I bring her to look
for fossils. There's like certain areas near us where you

(01:20:16):
can find a lot of like marine fossils, like shells
and stuff. Who go and do that. He likes wearing
little cat ears and cat tails, and it's just funny
with people. What is she intellect? She's into cats, so like,
I don't know, she really likes cats.

Speaker 1 (01:20:36):
That sounds appropriate for a seven year old. Yeah, you
sound you sound like a great dad.

Speaker 2 (01:20:45):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:20:46):
You're doing all this great stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:20:49):
Try man, I try. I just tried. And my dad,
my dad saw his wife and his children his property,
you know, like like they were like they were a
dresser or a night stand, you know, like they were
his things that he could do with thatever he wanted,
because they're his, you know. And I try to I
treat my girlfriend and my daughter like through their own

(01:21:10):
individual people. And you know, she tells me how I
don't want to hug you right now. Okay, well I
don't want to do that. You know. I treat her
like she's a person, you know, I ask her, I
try and talk to her like a human being. And
you know, that's one thing I never understood is I
told my dad, you know, like, my life's been really hard, man,

(01:21:33):
my life's been I've been struggling, and he just told me, oh,
my life was hard too, And he just kind of
has that mentality of like, oh, if my life was hard,
your life should be hard because it'll build character or whatever.
Like no one helped me, why should anyone help you.
But I'm under the impression. I'm like I think of
it like you're supposed to make it easier on the

(01:21:55):
next generation. So the next drink becomes more educated and
their life is a lot easier. In the next air,
they're even more educated, and they have they make more money,
and they're like, it's easy. You're not supposed to make
it harder on the next generation because it was hard
for you and it was hard for your dad. Like
that's just going nowhere. So I my parents were really

(01:22:16):
young when they had me too, So I try, like
I try to look in perspective, like my parents were
sixteen when they had me, So it's kind of crazy
to think, like when I left home, my parents were
like my age, and it's hard to think of like
why was my dad such an asshole so young? Like
why was he such a dick so young? Like he like,

(01:22:37):
I don't know, it's just it's hard to think, like, oh, dude,
he was like twenty two being that much of an asshole,
Like come on, man, you know I was supposed to
make it harder on the next generation. We're supposed to
make it easier. Build generational wealth, build heal generational trauma.

(01:23:03):
Do you do you?

Speaker 1 (01:23:05):
I know it's uh maybe maybe it's hard to do,
but for whatever reason, but do you you know, I
hope you acknowledge yourself as uh uh having a lot
of power and strength. Again, like I've been saying, to
form your own beliefs about how this ship should go

(01:23:29):
and live it.

Speaker 2 (01:23:31):
Yeah. I feel like a lot of people just like, oh,
they're my parents, this is how things are. But you know,
I've always been like, no, yeah, I'm gonna make my
own past. You know, if they're not gonna treat me right,
I'm gonna go make my own past. I'm gonna go
make my own family traditions. I'm gonna just because you're

(01:23:54):
your family is toxic, just because of your family doesn't
mean you have to put up with it, you know,
like you can set boundaries, you can be like, no,
I'm not going to be treated like that. My daughter's
not going to be treated like that. We're not going
to live like that. So it is. It does. It
does take a lot of strength. And that's kind of

(01:24:14):
like what I learned from being on the road for
so long is like I had that sense, you know,
I look around, I look behind me, nobody's there. I
look around nobody nobody knew if I had food, nobody
knew if I had sheltered nobody knew if I had clothes,
only me, only me. I got myself there. So I
feel like that strength I continue now because I'm like, oh,

(01:24:37):
I know I can do it, and it is. Yeah.
I feel I feel like I had pulled myself out
from under the sidewalk, you know, like I started with
less than nothing. Because I feel like I'm catching up
to a lot of people my age, But I try
not to compare myself too much because I'll start feeling

(01:24:57):
about like, oh, like when will I ever own a house?
When will I? You know this or that? But not
everybody starts at the same spot, you know what I mean, Like,
not every not everybody starts at go some people start
behind me.

Speaker 1 (01:25:18):
M m.

Speaker 2 (01:25:19):
It's not fair to compare yourself to it. Even if
someone's the same age. It's not fair to compare yourself
because not everybody had the same opportunities, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:25:29):
Hmm, you know, I uh, I actually don't know if
I ever caught your name, Steve, Steve, Steve, hm, hmm.

Speaker 2 (01:25:48):
How do you?

Speaker 1 (01:25:49):
I have a lot of questions for you.

Speaker 2 (01:25:51):
How do you? Uh?

Speaker 1 (01:25:54):
How do you feel? Having talked about all this stuff
for the last let's see, almost hour and a half.

Speaker 2 (01:26:03):
Well, I didn't realize though, Well, I mean, I feel
I feel better. I feel like I got some stuff
off my chest. I feel better just talking about it.
I've been yeah, a long time listener, first time called yeah.
I mean, I've listened for so I it kind of
helps me. I like listening so much to your show

(01:26:24):
because it helps me not think about my own problems
sometimes like listen to other people's problems and kind of
helps me put it in perspective. You know, everybody's got
different things going on. You never know what someone's got
going on, you know, you just see them in that moment,
and that that's all. That's all the reference you have.
So I like, yeah, just hearing people's stories, hearing what

(01:26:46):
people are going through, you know, any day. Like I've
thought about it so much, like what would I talk about?
What would I say? And yeah, I mean I got
a lot to say, but it just came naturally once
I started talking. Yeah, you're very easy to talk to you,
you know, once I started talking, you just.

Speaker 1 (01:27:07):
You know, Brah, have you ever thought about, uh, have
you ever thought about like writing a book or a
memoir or a I'm sure I mean after I mean,
I mean, I'll tell you this and this has got
to be I mean, I've been doing this show for
five years. This has got to be one of one

(01:27:29):
of my favorite conversations I think I've ever had doing
this show. It's uh, I mean, it's it's it's it's fascinating.

Speaker 3 (01:27:36):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:27:36):
You're really really good at you know, telling your story.
Have you ever I mean, after twelve fucking years of
riding trains. You must have so many stories. Have you
ever thought about like doings? I mean, you know, I
mean it's awesome. I really appreciate you, uh coming on
here and and and telling your story because I think

(01:27:58):
it's I think it's fucking and incredible. Have you ever
thought about writing a memoir or even like doing you know,
a little YouTube things or anything like that. I don't
know why that's where my brain goes, but I just
I just like, I love I love your stories. You've

(01:28:19):
lived in a wild life.

Speaker 2 (01:28:23):
I have thought about it, and I've had I've even
had different people reach out to me asking if they
could make something with me about it, or nothing ever
really panned forward with it. I write poetry sometimes I
do write like in a journal when I write things,

(01:28:44):
but I've never tried to organize it. I gave you
like the short version of everything. I'm sure, yeah, yeah, yeah,
I would like to just so it's not lost, just
because I do like sharing my story and I feel like, yeah,
there's other people that maybe could take use, you know,

(01:29:05):
maybe they're going through really hard time. They don't. When
you're in something, you don't see how it could get better.
You know that. That's the thing is like when you're
going through it, you don't see how it could possibly
get any better different, you know, and it gets overwhelming.
But think things really do take wild turns. You can

(01:29:26):
change your life. You know, Like a few years ago,
I would have thought for sure, you know, I'm gonna
I'm gonna die outside on the side of the road
somewhere and now here I am, I'm you know, so yeah,
I uh, I don't even know where I would start,
you know. I. I guess I should think about it more.

(01:29:46):
But do you do you do you do?

Speaker 1 (01:29:51):
You do you if like it's it's okay, it's okay
if not, and you know, if you want if you
if you want to make something, well, I was gonna
ask you do you have do you do you post
anything anyway? I know you said you write poems? Right,
do you do you post anything anywhere? Like if if
people who are listening to this wanted to keep up

(01:30:13):
with you or anything like that, if that's something you want.
You know, not you don't have to feel obligated to,
but if that was something you want, do you have
a thing that anyone listening to this?

Speaker 2 (01:30:26):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (01:30:27):
I want to catch up with you on I.

Speaker 2 (01:30:29):
Mean, I used to get quite a bit of traction
on Reddit and Instagram, and I just like I got
rid of it. I deleted every I don't. It's kind
of crazy because yeah, man, I I completely hopped off
social media because it was not doing so good for
my mental health.

Speaker 1 (01:30:49):
Like I understand that too.

Speaker 2 (01:30:50):
Yeah, yeah, Like I I don't have Reddit, Facebook, Instagram, Snap,
none of those on my phone. I don't use any
of those. And like when I got rid of them, dude,
my thumb would go and click on the empty space
where those apps used to be. Like like anytime I
had my I had a down moment, my thumb would
just go to click those empty spaces at one. Yeah,

(01:31:13):
I used to like, you know, yeah, I just I
don't right now. It would be awesome because I wish
I could show you some pictures, Uh, show you some
pictures riding trains and stuff. Well, yeah, people used to.
I felt it was kind of a debating thing when
I deleted everything. I thought about it for a long time.
I have a lot of the photos and videos saved.

Speaker 1 (01:31:36):
But well, well well let me let me let me
tell you that if you if you ever do well,
if and you again no pressure to ever, you know,
do anything, because I also I also understand why people,
you know, I mean, we had the I remember, I
don't know if you heard this episode, but we talked
to the guy a little bit of a similar story
to yours who went to go live in a cave

(01:31:56):
in the tenery violence.

Speaker 2 (01:31:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:31:59):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. And he he started Instagram. But
then I think he was kind of like, I want
to stay offline, but it's up to you. But I
just wanted to say, if you ever want to, uh,
you know, do something, you can always I don't know
if you have me on Instagram or whatever, but I
check my dms and ships. So if you ever want

(01:32:21):
to send me an email, or if you ever want
to start posting anything or whatever, you can send me
a d M or an email and I'll shout it
out on you know, one of one of the future
episodes of the podcast or on Instagram or something. So
you know, invitation is open if you ever think about
it and you want to start doing something like that.

Speaker 2 (01:32:42):
I appreciate this.

Speaker 1 (01:32:44):
I also wanted to, uh, you know, I'm live. We're
live on twitch right now. If it's cool, I guess
I'm you know, before we go, I could ask the
twitch chat if they have any uh questions they want
to ask you?

Speaker 2 (01:32:56):
Is that yah? Yeah? Yeah, I closed the chat when
I when I when I answered the.

Speaker 1 (01:33:01):
Call, So I'm it's okay. I'll I'll give it the
twitch chat a second to write some questions and I'll pick.
I'll pick some stuff we have. One person said, tell
Steve he is awesome. Keep doing what he's doing. A

(01:33:25):
little pig boy says what was his favorite state from
going coast to coast?

Speaker 2 (01:33:30):
Oh? Man, Really, it's hard to pick the I have
like a top three. My top three is Colorado, Montana,
and Oregon. But it's really hard for me to pick
a pick. Like I love Colorado, but I also really

(01:33:52):
love the ocean. I love the mountains. I love the
nature of the forest. But yeah, like Montana, Oregon, call
Colorado or just like the southeast never really hit my
vibe that well, Like I went there a bunch, you know,
it's just never really felt it, you know. But in
like Montana, oh my gosh, fucking beautiful. You just open

(01:34:17):
sky is beautiful. The people there are cool. Like I
could just walk into a town and just be like, hey,
I need work. I need a job, and I'd find like, oh,
so and so down at the furnire stores renovating, you know,
like it was like like people are always really cool
up there. Oh I like the land up there. Yeah, Montana,

(01:34:37):
Oregon and Colorado is my favorite, for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:34:46):
Someone wants to know, Uh, what was the other if
you had any other, Like what the other scariest encounter
was besides almost getting caught by the rail worker.

Speaker 2 (01:35:03):
Oh yeah, I mean that was just the very first
train I ever got on. I mean there was times. Yeah,
I mean I got taken to jail twice for riding trains.
But I used to tell people, you know, if you're
scared to go to jail, don't ride trains, because that's
not the worst thing that can happen. The worst thing
I can even fucking die, you know what I mean. So, uh,

(01:35:28):
that's not the scariest thing. I mean, I've had people
I've been robbed at gunpoint, like had I literally just peeple.
I'm like, man, I'm not gonna get shot over there.
Like you know, like I've had people be like, oh
what do we didn't do anything, and it's like, bro,
you do what you want. To get shot over your
fucking backpack, but you want to fucking die, you know,
and it's not worth it, really, I bet yeah. I

(01:35:53):
had the one time this guy with a machete. I
was sitting there with this kid that'd never hopped a train.
That was one of my favorite things to do is
bring people that never rode trains Ryan trains, because I
love to just look in their face, you know, when
you start going and you just look at them and
you can see that glint in their eye and it's just, yeah,
it's magical. And this guy with a machete was just

(01:36:17):
like walking around us all tweaked out on myth and
he's just like, oh, you know how many of you
are there? And I told I was like, oh, there's
about four or five of us at the liquor store
right now. And then he like walked away. And the
greenhorn when you're new to something like Ryan trains to
call them greenhorns. He was like, man, why'd you say

(01:36:37):
that there was more of us? And I was like, bro,
that guy does not need to know that it's just
me and you down here, because we're like, I mean,
that's the hardest thing is like getting off the train,
because then you've got the cops fucking with you. You
got people all kinds of crazy, tweaked out homeless people
fucking with you, you know what I mean, Like you're

(01:36:58):
just trying to get some food and water and supplies
and go. So that was like the hardest part. I mean,
I almost died riding trains now that I mean that
will still give me nightmares, Like I still wake up
sometimes with nightmares from that. I almost died of dehydration,

(01:37:19):
and it was, I mean, it got It was so serious.
I was having auditory and visual hallucinations just from dehydration,
and my press real vision was gone. It was like
someone was holding their hands over my eyes, like it
was all black all around my eyes and I could
only see right in front of me. I basically I
hopped onto a coal train and I thought it was

(01:37:43):
going one way, but we ended up going towards a
coal mine and we sided out. So the train stopped
and I was on an empty coal train and I
look and there's a what I thought was a full
train loaded with coal. So I got off and got
on that one because I'm like, oh, this loaded coal
is gonna leave, and mind you, it's over one hundred degrees.
It's like one hundred and eight degrees. And the next

(01:38:06):
day we're still there. And I walked to the front
of the train, walk to the back of the train.
There's no engines. It's just a string of coal in
the middle of nowhere. And I look all around. There's
no bushes, there's no trees, there's no shade, there's no
power lines, there's no pupp of smoke. I'm like out
in the open planes, just on this string of loaded coal.

(01:38:30):
And I run out of water quick and at one
point I started walking away and then I was like no.
I was like, I need to go back to the train,
because they're not just going to leave a loaded coal
train there forever. They'll eventually come back for it. And
I was like, if I just walk where am I
walking to it? Ut to the horizon, I'm gonna die.
So I walked back to the string of trains and

(01:38:53):
did I tell the story to people and they're like, man,
you probably drank your piss, huh. And I'm like, dude,
I was so dehydrated I couldn't piss. Like I was trapped.
One point, I had my dog bowl and I was
trying to pee into the dog bowl to drink it.
And I couldn't even pee anything there was. I couldn't
even it was so bad, I couldn't even piss. And
then like I'm hearing voices, I'm hearing people laughing at me,

(01:39:15):
mocking my condition. I'm seeing like shadow people running in
front of my vision, and like I thought I was
gonna die, gag. I had came to peace with my
leg I was like, this is it, this is my
last train. I fucked up. I'm gonna die, this is it,
and I had I was so out of it that

(01:39:39):
I thought I was cold, and I had every layer
of clothing on me. So they eventually did come for
the train, and the railroad workers saved my life. I
was in and out of consciousness. I was going in
and out of consciousness, and I it was over one
hundred degrees and I had every article. I had my
thermal un to wear on, I had my being on,

(01:40:03):
I had my hoodie on, I had my jacket, I
had everything on because I thought I was freezing. I
thought it was freezing cold. And they found me. They
brought me the hospital. They fucking but yeah, man, every
day since then's been extra for me, I've been like
every day since. Then's an extra. That was my first

(01:40:24):
first couple of years Ryan trains, and it happened because
I was arrogant and coffee and I just thought I
could get on and off whenever I wanted. I was like,
I'm in control, you know. But you went to know
that the trains in control. There's no such thing as
the wrong train. You just went a way you didn't
want to go. You know, the trains goes where the
train goes. But dude, I'll wake up like screaming for

(01:40:47):
water and shit gets bad. I'll feel like I'm still
there on that cold train, fucking with no water. I
had food, I had weed, I had everything except water.

Speaker 1 (01:41:00):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (01:41:02):
I know it was probably a longer answer than you were.

Speaker 4 (01:41:04):
No.

Speaker 2 (01:41:05):
No, no, no, no no no. Yeah. It's real out there, man.
It's like like people will ask me, oh, what's the
worst thing that happened to you out there? And then
when I tell them, I can just see the look
in their faith they like they didn't really expect it
to be that deep. I'm like, the highs are really high.
The lows are like I've seen the worst that humanity
has to offer, but I've also seen the best.

Speaker 1 (01:41:27):
Well like that kind of actually, well, what you're saying
actually brings me into the next question that somebody asked that.

Speaker 2 (01:41:34):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:41:35):
I'm also a little bit curious about as someone said.
Basically they were like, you know, someone in the chat
was like, I want to get into hopping trains. How
should I get into it? But I want to ask you, uh,
you know, in light of a comment like that, like

(01:41:57):
after everything, if somebody came to you and said, I
want to start hopping trains, how should I get into it?
Would you recommend that they that they that they that
they start, that they go on the journey.

Speaker 2 (01:42:11):
I don't regret it at all. Man, it was the
best thing I could have made, that choice could go.
But it's not for everybody. And I used to tell
people out there, you know, like if you've got somewhere
to go back to, if you got people that love you,
if you've got a family, if you got a support system,
if you got good for you will eventually go home.
You know, like like there's no ifans there, but if

(01:42:33):
you've got that support system, eventually you'll go home because
you'll get tired of being hungry, cold, fucking whatever, you know,
But this whole time, ain't Lots of people have asked
me this question and I always tell them the same thing.
You cannot learn how to do this by watching YouTube videos.
You cannot learn how to just do You will die.

(01:42:54):
You will fucking die. Like the only way that I
recommend anybody get into this, and it's hard to do this,
but it's to find someone that knows what they're doing
and is already doing it, you know what I mean?
Like that, like that can show you, hey, if you
step there, you don't want to step there, because when
the train buckles, your foot will get caught and you

(01:43:14):
will fucking die, you know. Like like there's just certain things,
like it goes beyond just getting on the train, hiding
and getting off the train. Like you know, there's shipping facilities.
Your train could get pulled into a shipping facility and
all of a sudden you're surrounded by barbed wire and
watch towers and they're fucking yanking all the cargo containers

(01:43:35):
off the train with cranes.

Speaker 1 (01:43:37):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:43:37):
They they got railroad police that won't arrest you. They'll
take a box cutter and cut the straps of your backpack.
Leave you there with a backpack you can't wear, take
your sleeping bag, cut your sleeping bag up, leave you
there like that. Uh, it's if you're gonna do it,
you gotta go with somebody. And the best way to
meet I think the best way to meet someone like

(01:43:59):
that is, like I said those Rainbow gatherings in the
beginning of my story that I was talking about, you
go to enough Rainbow. You're gonna meet some train hoppers
and they might not like you at first day. You
know what, the first train hoppers I've ever very met
made fun of me because I was a hitchhiker and

(01:44:19):
train hoppers think hitchhikers are stupid.

Speaker 1 (01:44:24):
But that's a very interesting, Uh, that's a very weird rivalry.
I never even thought about that.

Speaker 2 (01:44:30):
Well, dude, dude out there, like there's like cast systems almost,
you know what I mean, Like like like the train
hoppers think that they're better than the people that drive
around in cars and putting cars, and they think that
they're better than like the hitchhikers. And also the people
we call them home bums, the people that are just

(01:44:51):
homeless in one town and don't go anywhere and don't
do anything like we kind of hold it. We won't
hang out with those people usually like you know what
I mean, it's like, uh knows in the air. Fuck
you get away from me, because you're the reason everybody
hates us is because you're just sitting here in one
spot making a miss. You know. But any train hopper
that tells you he doesn't hitchhike is a liar. You've

(01:45:14):
got to hitchhike when you're Ryan train. Eventually you're gonna
have You're gonna have to hitchhike. But yeah, you know,
train hoppers are like, oh, why would you just stand
there with your thumb ow? You can just fucking ride freight.
But like Ryan frays, not for any but everybody. Like,
when it's hot, it's hot. When it's cold, it's cool.
I've rode trains in negative ten, and i rode trains
in one hundred and ten. I'd rather ride in negative

(01:45:39):
ten than one hundred and ten, honestly, which surprises a
lot of people. But yeah, when when it's negative ten,
if you got the right gear, you're fine. But one
hundred and ten there is no right gear. Like you're
on a fucking piece of metal, no shade that the

(01:46:01):
metal is hot as fuck. It's like burning up. You
touch it at all, and you're yeah, so I'd much
rather ride and negative can. But and it's never the
answer people want to hear. No one ever wants to hear. Oh,
go find a train hopper and fucking get bullied by
them and like either greenhorn and carry their water and

(01:46:23):
stuff and go and learn the ropes. But really, that's
how you do it and keep your limbs, you know,
like you gotta find somebody, you gotta get caught the waves,
because you can't just watch some YouTube videos and be
like I'm gonna do it. It's just too dangerous. Hitch hiking. Yeah,

(01:46:46):
go out hitchhiking, and fucking you'll run into people. Man
Like when I went out, I didn't know that people
lived out there doing that. I didn't know that there
was like a whole subculture of people just like by choice,
living out there on the road with their backpack. When
I went out, I had no idea. So like, that's
the best way to get into it. Just go out
here chiking, Go to some rainbow gatherings, go to the

(01:47:08):
gem shows, go to the Tucson gem Show. Check out something,
go to hardly strictly, do you know, like you go
places where the culture is and you'll meet people, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:47:21):
M hmmm, Steve, this has been I said it again,
but I you know, I mean, I'm sorry I said
it before, but I'll say it again. Yeah, this is
this has been. Yeah, one of my you know, favorite
conversations that I've had doing this. I would say, I
really appreciate you sharing your story. I'm like, you know,

(01:47:42):
I I know that you haven't had the chat open,
but there's a lot of people in the chat who
are just you know, uh, giving you your flowers on
you know, uh getting to where you are from where
you've been and you know, doing you and being you.
So I hope, uh helpe you recognize that you got
a lot of support out there.

Speaker 2 (01:48:03):
I appreciate that.

Speaker 4 (01:48:04):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:48:05):
I don't got enough people in my life telling me
I'm doing a good job, you know, like so sometimes
the reference is out of sight for me because I'm like, oh, yeah,
I appreciate that, bro.

Speaker 1 (01:48:17):
Yeah. I again, everyone in this chat is like really
really really supportive, and you know, I hope I don't
what do I hm hm hmmm, this, I don't I
don't know how there's some guy commented being like, I
can help you tell your story if you want to

(01:48:38):
tell it. I don't know, I got I'd let you
know here. I'll do this because I know that, like
I I I already said this, but I'll say it
again if you want to. You know, I don't know
if you have me on Instagram or you have me
on whatever, but if you want to create some form
of line of communication for anyone who hears this to

(01:48:58):
get in touch with you, you can hit me up
and I'll figure out a way to Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:49:04):
I only listen to the Spotify Okay, I mean I
have an email and I have Blue Sky, but yeah,
that's about it.

Speaker 1 (01:49:13):
You can, I mean, you can drop your email if
you want, you know, if you if you I'm sure,
I'm I'm like one hundred percent sure that there will
be people who want to get in touch with you
after this, and if that's something you're open to, you're
totally welcome to drop your email on here.

Speaker 2 (01:49:26):
Yeah, I mean, I like talk. Like I said in
the beginning, man, I'm one of those people I can
just walk up to anybody and start talking to them.
So it does help me to talk to people and
just you know, so my email is kind of long,
but there's no like all right, So it's trip Trap
tramp trash at gmail dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:49:49):
Okay, trip t r I p t r I p
t r.

Speaker 5 (01:49:55):
A p so trip trap, trip trap tramp p r
A M p mm HM trash, trip trap tramp trash.

Speaker 2 (01:50:07):
That's that was my full name on the road that
I gave myself was trip Trap tramp Trash, trip.

Speaker 1 (01:50:14):
Trap tramp trash at gmail.

Speaker 2 (01:50:17):
Yes at gmail dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:50:19):
Okay, trip trap tramp trash at gmail dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:50:25):
Okay, no underscores or dots or anything. Yeah, just all
under case.

Speaker 1 (01:50:30):
Yeah man, trap tramp trash. Yeah, let me know if
me I'm curious if people reach out to you, that'd
be cool, that'd be cool.

Speaker 2 (01:50:39):
Yeah. Yeah, we'll see how this goes. I don't get
too any of you.

Speaker 1 (01:50:47):
Steve Man. Once again, dude, thank you. This is this
is this actually might be the longest phone call I've
had on this show. At How long is this? Like
fucking we've been going for on for almost two hours?
I really I appreciate your time.

Speaker 4 (01:51:02):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:51:02):
Thank you so much for uh for for getting on
here with me and telling your story. It was super fascinating.
It was uh and dude, I wish you the best
of luck. I think you're doing a fucking great job
being a father, being there for your kid, making the
decisions you got to make to be there for your family.

(01:51:22):
I think you're doing awesome. I'm excited for you for
the future. And you know, thanks, thanks again for your time, man,
Thanks for thanks for chat with us. I'm sure I'm
sure a lot of people will listen to this and
you know, gain some form of camaraderie if they themselves
feel like they're not doing so hot. Is there anything

(01:51:46):
else you want to say to the people of the
computer before we go?

Speaker 2 (01:51:50):
Just keep going. You know you got it. Even if
you can't see it. There's light at the end of
the tunnel. You'll get through it. Just because you can't
see it now, it doesn't even it's not there. You
know that. That's probably the biggest thing. And I know
it's hard to see it when you're in it, but
you just keep going. You just keep you just persevere,

(01:52:11):
you know, like we're all gonna die anyway. You only
get this one life, so like, just live it because
then it's over, you know what I mean, Like you
just live it like you got this one life, you
got this one chance. It's gonna be over anyway, so
just live it.

Speaker 1 (01:52:30):
Books gig, Thank you, Steve. I appreciate you.

Speaker 2 (01:52:32):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:52:32):
You have the rest of the day you toobe books
by Steve. What a what a What a phone call? Folks?
What a phone call? Folks. I wasn't just blowing smoke
up up Steve's ass. I really that was one of
the my favorite episodes of the show I think I've recorded.

(01:52:53):
I mean, he was you know, he had such an
amazing story and he told it so well, and it's
just wild, man. I mean, twelve fucking years of of
hopping trains and you know, dealing with like fucking family

(01:53:17):
shit and then uh, it's really it's beautiful to hear
about someone like going out and breaking the cycle and
trying to like be the father that they didn't have.
Like I think that's so I think that's so cool,
you know, I think that's so cool because it's so

(01:53:38):
easy to let life smack you around and mold you
into something, and just to to talk to someone who
who through sheer like force of fucking will, right, Like
I don't I always wonder, I always there's so much

(01:53:58):
that shapes us as people that's out of our fucking control.
You know, there's so much that shapes this as people
that's out of our fucking control, Like who our parents are, weird,
neurological synaps, firing, whatever, the fuck shit that I don't
know about, environment, time, random chance, whatever. There's so much

(01:54:23):
that's beyond us that like shapes who we are.

Speaker 5 (01:54:28):
And then.

Speaker 1 (01:54:30):
You know, I hear a story like Steve's and it's
like and and little shit about it where he's like, yeah,
fucking guy offered me crack and I wanted to try
it and this guy was like, I'm not gonna give
you your first hit of crack, and like that just
you know, saved his ass. And you know, everyone around
him was drinking and he wasn't into drinking, and is

(01:54:54):
you know, dad was shitty to him and he ended
up being a good dad regardless, and like, bro, just
the story of a guy just like encountering every pitfall
that was possible to knock him down and still like
creating a beautiful life for himself. It's cool. It makes

(01:55:19):
me question my often deterministic viewpoint about life and and
lean more heavily into the idea that we have free
will over who we want to become and not letting
the ship that happens to us or the world we
live in or whatever like shape us permanently. It's cool.

(01:55:42):
It's an inspiring story. I appreciate I appreciate you staring
at sharing it. Steve once again, Yeah, what is it again? Trip?
I wrote it down trip Trap tramp Trash a GMI
dot com. I don't know. Sometimes I like the idea

(01:56:03):
that you know, I mean, we had We've had a
few callers on this podcast that uh wires have crossed
somehow by people listening to it, and uh, cool things happen.
So I like, I like throwing it. I like throwing
it out there for that to happen. Anyway. Uh, this

(01:56:27):
has been the the Therapy Gecko podcast. Thank you all
very much for listening. This was This was great.

Speaker 2 (01:56:33):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:56:34):
If you enjoyed this episode, share it with your friends.
I'd like, I'd like people to hear this. I think
this is a really cool story. I think this is
a good uh you know, I mean I've been doing
I've been doing this like two episodes a week for
five years, and sometimes I'm like, are we out of
stories and then something comes, something comes by the desk
and I'm like, oh shit, you know, uh this this

(01:56:57):
this thing keeps uh given and given interesting stuff. So,
you know, I'm proud to be doing this show. I'm
honored to have you guys listening to it. And anything else.
I don't know if I have anything else to say.
I think that's it, all right, Thank you all for

(01:57:17):
listening gek bless see you around the universe. Hello, folks,
it's Lyle here. That's the end of this episode. But
get this, I'm releasing a bonus episode this week. That's right,
an entire extra hour of the podcast that you can
listen to. By becoming a premium member of Therapy Gecko

(01:57:40):
over at Therapy Gecko dot supercast dot com. Supercast subscribers
get access to bonus episodes, they get a completely ad
free podcast feed of the regular show, they get recordings
from my live shows, members only streams, and they help
support my ability to continue doing this podcast. So here's
a clip from this week's members only bonus episode. So

(01:58:04):
you have these uh bass gastric distress as you call it,
and it says here that this causes you to shit
your pants. Uh in several inopportune situations.

Speaker 3 (01:58:18):
Yeah, I went to a I went to a show,
and I, uh, I ship myself right before we went
into the show. I just to give some context, I
ate a cheeseburger, and at the time I didn't know,
but now I know.

Speaker 2 (01:58:32):
I'm lactose intolerant. It's kind of embarrassing, but I kind
of tell it to my friends with a funny story.
The mouse sagure it on here. I'm kind of like,
dam like, it's kind of fucked up.

Speaker 1 (01:58:44):
No, I think it's pretty funny. If you want to
hear this full conversation, you can sign up to become
a premium member at therapy Gecko dot supercast dot com,
or find the link in the episode description that's therapy
Gecko dot supercast dot All right, I have nothing else
to say.

Speaker 2 (01:59:04):
There. Repeat goes on the line, taking your phone calls
every night.

Speaker 1 (01:59:08):
The repink Can goes doing his ride.

Speaker 2 (01:59:10):
He's teaching you aloud in the middle of your life,
but he's not really an expert.

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Episode Transcript

Host

Lyle Drescher

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