Bonding of the Sexes: Becoming Undefeated

This week Mysonne and Tamika speak on personal growth, relationships, public perception, and the journey to becoming a first lady of a church with Shaunie Henderson. During the show, Shaunie also touches on having no regrets when creating the popular reality show "Basketball Wives" and later they were joined by her new husband Senior Pastor Keion Henderson, where they highlighted their individual growth, challenges, and the dynamics of blending families. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm Tamika D.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
Mallory and the ship Boy my Son in general.

Speaker 1 (00:03):
We are your host of t.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
M I Tamika my Son's Information, Truth, Motivation.

Speaker 1 (00:08):
And Inspiration, name New Energy.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Same o us. What's going on to me? Good?

Speaker 1 (00:18):
You make me laugh?

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Yeah? We got listen. Man, I'm here for a good time,
not a long time. You know. Nah, I'm you know
what I mean, I'm the podcast I'm talking about right now.
I'm just living in a moment, enjoying life. And you know,
my birthday was just passed. And if you see these
shirts that we're wearing, shout out to my friend. I

(00:42):
love her to death, lu Shan Well love her to life.
You're right, you I love her to life. She made
this shirt. Like you know, I'm I'm not this egotistical.
I don't think I belong on this shirt, but you know,
that's definitely the work that I want to do. You know,
but some people actually.

Speaker 1 (01:02):
Belong on the shirts. When they started, everybody started somewhere,
so you know, I mean, you know what I like
about the shirt is that each person is.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
Different, each person represents something and these are all people
who I idolized. You know that I aspire to just
have an inkling of the impact that they've had in life.
So shout out to Lushan for making sure I wore
this shirt. She's like, you're gonna win this shirt, Solu Shawn.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
Thomson, Yep. She gave us these shirts and I wear
it proudly. I mean, I think I felt the same
way when they meet when Jamilla T. Davis, Doctor Jamiller T.
Davis made the shirts with several names of very, very
very inspirational women, and she put my name on the shirt.
I appreciate that we come last, which means that we're

(01:54):
still in the process of growing through the ranks. But
you said you use the word egotistical, but I don't
know if it's that. I think it's it's more so
and you're not as you're more humble and not as
self absorbed that you would ever for yourself.

Speaker 2 (02:10):
I wouldn't. I wouldn't at all. You know, if it
was taught my Rapper Center might put me in there.
But as far as you know impact in the world,
you know, I think that I'm definitely just trying to
do my part. So I appreciate anyone who sees me
close to any of these amazing man's on this shirt.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
Yes, we wear it with pride.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
Yes, ma'am with PRIs id So today for.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
My thought of the day, I am super proud. I'm
sure you are to. We share uh the love and
admiration for our brother, Jamal Bryant, doctor Jamal Bryant, who's
the pastor of new Birth Baptist.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
Church, Jamal Harrison Brian.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
Jamal Harrison Bryant, that's right Bryant. And he's the pastor
of new Birth Baptist Church in Atlanta, Georgia. And you know,
Jamal's obviously our brother. We are in the trenches with him,
on the road with Jamal. We talk all the time.
We text all the time. Jamal and I must be

(03:16):
in I don't know fifty text threads together on issues.
And you know, so that's our brother and very very
close to him. And as we complete this Bonding of
the Sexes series where every week people have learned about
or heard about couples or perspectives from people who do
relationship therapy people, do you know our girl Kendrick kicked

(03:40):
it off at Kendrack g She kicked it off and
in her episode she was specifically, you know, talking about
the expectations and aspirations of many of the women. And
I think that, you know, I got a lot of
feedback from people. Wonder the things about this series is

(04:00):
that on every other show you see a lot of
like chatter in the comments or people sharing it and
saying whatever. But in these particular shows, the comments was
in my dms, like a lot of people didn't necessarily
they would text me. They didn't want to put how
they feel and their feedback on the page for everyone
to see it. And I get it. You know, people

(04:22):
want to keep their thoughts and their lives private. And
that brings me to my thought of the day about
Jamal Bryant and his newly announced engagement to his beautiful
feeling doctor Carrie Turner. And doctor Turner is a pastor

(04:46):
also at new Birth, so she's the pastor of cardiology,
which I need to know, like I'm assuming, I don't know.
I know it's got to do with your heart, but
I need to know more about because you know, they
are so especially the history of new birth, the history
of new birth, but then also the creativity of Jamal.

(05:12):
Who knows what cardiology means. It could mean your health
real or it could just really mean your heart and
I don't know, so I might be both, might be both,
which would be which would be amazing. But she is
a powerful, dynamic, amazing, beautiful woman and he has absolutely made,

(05:36):
in my judgment, the best choice to ask this woman.
Who is someone right there in his church? He said,
you know, sometimes it's right in front of your eyes,
your blessing, and you don't see it. And what I
was thinking about was, you know, of course they're everybody.
Once he announced it, he did it in the only
Jamal Brian can do fashion. On Sunday morning, announced his

(06:00):
engagement in front of his congregation, and it went viral,
of course, and there were lots of different comments. I
saw some of his guy friends saying, oh, I was
starting to think you couldn't see, like the lady was
right there, you know, say it was beautiful. But then
there were people like, oh, well, why why did they lie?

(06:20):
Why did they hide it? Like they were hiding it
she was lying. And I was thinking to myself, wow,
you believe that you somehow are entitled to know about
their personal life, like you really do believe in your
mind that when someone asked them, or when a blog
or some person tried to expose them, or tried to

(06:44):
ask about or inquire about, or shame them or whatever
that they were entitled to respond to. You what you
really think that in your mind that you are a
person on social media that does not I know these folks.
You have no relationship to them, You know nothing about

(07:05):
them except for whatever has been online. You know, Jamal
has had other relationships and shout out to Giselle Bryant,
who is Jamal's former wife, and you know she's in
the comments saying congratulations, you know, I'm happy for you all,
or whatever you know, and it's just to me, I'm

(07:25):
just thinking to myself, So you, Alice May from wherever,
from New York City, from la from Alabama, from wherever,
and you believe that when you somehow asked or whatever,
that you were supposed to get an answer from these
folks that was a pleasing to you. And I feel

(07:47):
like I understand why, especially for someone like Jamal who
has been in the midst of controversy from previous relationships
and whatever other things, he tried to do something different
this time by keeping the relationship with this woman, especially
with the sensitivity of them both being in the church

(08:09):
to keep it private until the two of them decided that, okay,
we locked solid, because if they broke up, it would
just be fine, like nobody would know and they would
go their separate ways and that'd be the end of it.
But you know, now that they've decided to come forward,
this is the right time for them to tell people
because clearly he's made a decision and he's serious about

(08:30):
this woman being his wife and vice versa.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
It just basically is none of your business, you know,
that man, they got to tell you about his business,
personal life with him and his lady. You know, once again,
congratulations to them. He made a decision and they made
a decision that they want to A.

Speaker 1 (08:47):
Man makes the decision.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
I'm saying, you can't. That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
It is it is it is a man's decision to
say I'm serious about.

Speaker 2 (09:01):
This, right, Well, he can't be serious about something.

Speaker 1 (09:04):
She ain't obviously that, But I'm just saying that. And
I'm sure that even when she said and he remembered
me when she showed her rings talking about obviously not
she's about the word of God, not like him as
in Jamaal. But she knows that we as women, We
are waiting for the person, whomever it may be, to

(09:25):
make that decision. You know what I'm saying that you're
ready to take this on and make me a wife
and do all the things that you need to do
to make me safe and secure. And so he made
that decision. And as you were saying, yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:39):
I mean he made the decision, they made the decision,
and he made the decision. And that's that. You know,
people can't dictate when you come out about you your
personal you know, relationships, about what's going on in your life.
So he decided, and I'm happy for him. Man, hopefully
God willing, you know, this will be something that will
be eternal, you know, you know, right off into the sunset.

(10:02):
But as far as y'all people, mind y'all businessmen, worry
about what's going on in your house, mind your business,
because it ain't got nothing to do with you. That's
that man and that woman. And he decided when he
was going to bring it forth, you sit there and
where about what's going on your household? Where about's going
on with your relationship?

Speaker 1 (10:18):
Yeah, I mean I saw it from like five different
people too, were like, oh my, I just I don't
know I don't understand.

Speaker 2 (10:24):
You're not supposed to understand. It ain't for you. That's
the reality. It ain't for you to under why people
need to understand somebody else's business.

Speaker 1 (10:33):
I mean, I think that people feel because you are
a pastor, or you're an organizer, or you're any type
of public figure, that they are entitled to everything about you.
And the interesting thing about that is, I promise you
none of the individuals writing are members of the church.
So you're not a titherer. You're not in the church.
You have absolutely no, no, no entitlement zero to know

(10:58):
anything about what is going on with these people who
are trying to figure out their own lives. And it's
just like you know, I think, I think people get
really confused as to where the line is drawed of
a drawn excuse me around you know folks, personal stuff.
So that's that anyway, moving right along, but shout out

(11:21):
and congratulations to our family, the soon to be Bryant's Jamaal.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
Good job, buddy. So this brings me to my music segment,
and this one is like near and dear to our heart,
you know, because this is our sister Rhapsody who just
dropped an amazing, amazing album today call Please Don't Cry.
It's personal, it is introspective, it is lyrical, like Rhapsody
is just a dope artist. Like it's not female artists.

(11:49):
She is one of the dopest artists out there. Lyrically,
there is nobody like just everything about the way that
she delivers music. It's just amazing. So this album, first
of all, you got to get the whole album. Please
don't cry. If you have not downloaded, you have not listened,
you are missing a treat. This is an amazing album.
But I think the song for me that sticks out

(12:11):
because you know, it's something that we went through with her,
is called he Shot Me, where she talks about Brehanna
Taylor and she talks about the deputy I didn't shoot
the jeopardy he shot me. And it's just such an
amazing breakdown of what happened to Brianna and just how

(12:31):
things go on in our society. But the album itself
is amazing. So shout out to Rhapsody. I text her
the other day and told how amazing album was. She
didn't even realize it was my number. She's a mice.
This is you, and you know I answer her back,
but the album is amazing. But go listen to he
Shot Me. It's probably one of my favorite tracks. But
the whole album is dope. Shutout. Marlenat mar Lena is amazing.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
She's my amazing friend too.

Speaker 2 (12:59):
He shot me, He shut Me.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
So let's get into this interview. Now. You know, a
few weeks ago, we filmed in studio with my girl,
Shawnie Henderson. She has a new book out called Undefeated,
Changing the Rules and winning on my own terms, And
we had a real powerful conversation and of course what
was amazing is that her Mayan her Man, her Man

(13:25):
her Man, Pastor Keon Henderson joined us and she didn't
know that he was going to come and run up
to the studio, So it was really cool. And I'm
excited for you all to hear everything this sister is
going through. And you know what, I'm excited that we
got to do an interview with her that people will
not be able to take one word that she said
and turn it into a whole thing because she talks

(13:47):
about in fact, Pastor Keyon talks about his positive relationship
with Shack, how they don't have any drama and all
of this stuff that people are trying to create any
based upon her telling her story. It's interesting because that's
what happened with Jada, with Jada Pinkett Smith that you know,
she's telling her story in the book, and as the story,

(14:09):
people decide which parts of it they think are important,
which parts they want to you know, push out there,
highlight which narratives, and then one line becomes a whole thing.
But when you look at it in the context of
what she said, I never forget. Charlmagne was like, Yo,
I'm gonna go read this book because this because Jada
must be really tearing Will up and it's disgusting, like

(14:31):
if that's what she's doing, Like how could she do
this to him? I'm gonna go read. And then he
got on the radio the next day or after a
weekend and was like, none of what y'all are talking
about is in this book. It literally wasn't there. So
you know, you know, Shawnee, I think in this interview
she gets an opportunity to really express herself in a
way that is not a gotcha moment. So y'all check

(14:54):
it out.

Speaker 2 (14:55):
Check it out.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
So we are be enjoined today by a good friend,
a good dear sister Shawnee Henderson and this book Undefeated.
I had an opportunity to read this book, and I
feel undefeated should I feels so defeated, I feel powerful.
And it's so good to have content in our lives

(15:21):
that helps us to just release so much of the
shame and the misery and everything that we go through.
And so today I am so excited. We're excited to
welcome our dear sister Shawnee Henderson to be here to
talk about Undefeated, changing the rules and winning on my
own turn.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
I want people to read this book and feel empowered, encouraged.
It is my story but so relatable to everybody's story absolutely,
from learning how to be financially independent as a woman
to single parenting to divorce. It's just my journey is

(16:02):
definitely a journey that can be shared with anybody. And
you get it. We've all been in some part of
my journey in your life. And to know that you
can just start over and take a challenge and turn
it into an opportunity to be undefeated.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
It's the goal. That's the goal, you know, and you
say doing it on your own terms, and you've been
doing that. Yeah, I don't think that's a new thing.
I think that's just been you right right, just making
it happen for yourself and for others. But I can
imagine that in this particular season of your life, you're
no longer worried about what people think about what you're

(16:41):
doing and fighting through all of the emotions and anxiety
of trying to please geting a people please it would
you say that you've been able to release that?

Speaker 4 (16:49):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (16:49):
Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (16:50):
You know what, though, I think that I do care
about what people who love me feel about me. So
even with doing Reality TV, right, it's like I was
so careful trying to move around doing TV, which is
why I even wrote this book. It's because no one
really knows my story, like you see what I've let

(17:10):
you see, and I've just I don't want to share
too much, or I haven't let me say, I haven't
in the past shared too much in protection of everybody
around me, because I just because I decided to write
a book and decide to be on reality TV doesn't
make my mother want to tell her story that's a
part of my story, or my father or whoever. So

(17:31):
you know, I just I don't care what people think
about me. But I do care about the people who
love me and how they think about me, How I
represent my children, how I represent my husband, how I
represent my parents. You know, I want to I care
a lot about that. In this book, I'm able to
share my journey, even though I they're all a part

(17:52):
of my journey. It took me a long time to
write this book because I kept stopping myself and just saying, oh, wait,
maybe I'm saying too much about this situation. Even though
it's my truth, and even though it's what I experience,
is so many other pieces to it, and it's so
many other people that I have to talk about in
order to tell my story that I was so scared

(18:12):
to do it. But it's only it's my truth, right,
and it's my experience, it's my journey, and I'm going
to share it because I know for a fact that
it can help somebody.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
Do you think that there are things about you that
are misunderstood or misinterpreted, like people that you meet that
they have some type of understanding you that's not really true,
or do you think pretty much what they think of
you as really what it is?

Speaker 1 (18:36):
Yes, I absolutely do.

Speaker 3 (18:38):
I think people think I was handed a silver spoon
at a certain point in my life, and that is
not the truth.

Speaker 2 (18:44):
You know.

Speaker 3 (18:45):
I share that in the book. I think people misinterpret
me as far as Basketball Wives as concerned as you know,
I get the you're explaining black women all the time, right,
That was never the goal of Basketball Wives is not
about basketball. Basketball Wives is about giving women a voice
and a platform to be able to express themselves however

(19:07):
they are. If you are flipping table, that's who you are.
You know, of course it's entertainment at the end of
the day. But I really created Basketball Wives a out
of pure survival mode at that time in my life.
It was like, this gotta work because I need it's
a goal here and this has to work. But I
also wanted to get in in my particular journey, I

(19:31):
was lost at one point. I kind of lost myself
and I felt like I didn't have a voice. I
felt like, who is Shawnee? And they're like, what's your
purpose outside of being a mom, outside of being a wife?
Then soon to be ex wife, who are you and
what do you do? What's your legacy you live in
for your kids? What's you know? Your kids have a
very successful father, He's got a legacy of years and

(19:53):
years of a legacy.

Speaker 1 (19:55):
What do you have?

Speaker 3 (19:56):
You know, what are your kids going to say, my mom,
it was a great mom, and that's great, But I
want to be something besides that. So Basketball Wives was
a platform for women to be able to have a voice,
be able to get in this business world and learn
how to be entrepreneurs and learn how to just flourish

(20:16):
in a space that you're provided because you can't deny that.
Television is giving you a platform to be able to say, sell,
do many many things. And I've been able to do
that and I'm super proud of it. So it's not
exploiting black women at all. I can't control what women
do with their platform, but I'm gonna give you one
to stand on.

Speaker 1 (20:36):
Do you have any regrets about Basketball Wives? I don't.

Speaker 3 (20:40):
I don't have any regrets. Of course, I wish that
some ladies use it in a better light. You know,
that's not my life, but maybe that is your experience.
Maybe that's who you are. Some people have aggressive personalities.

Speaker 1 (20:52):
It is what it is. But do you think they
fake for TV? That I just Basketball Wives just in general?
Oh yeah, oh shows they start to turning it up
for absolutely.

Speaker 3 (21:01):
The absolutely, But you know, I think some people get
addicted to the fame, you know, like if you're not
flipping a table, you're not the talk at the water
cooler at the job the next day. So I do
think there are women and men that do this for
the fame because, let's be honest, it makes a lot
of folks a lot of money. So if you're the

(21:21):
loud one, if you're the one that I remember watching
because you did something crazy, people know that and you know,
get your coin. Some of you if that's you, you know,
do you? But I was never that person, which is why,
you know, going back to what I said, I was
very careful in what I shared and I'm just the
super private person anyway. I know I do a little
bit here on social media, but I think this book

(21:45):
you get to know my journey. But also I'm giving
a a space for people to be educated on a
lot of things and a lot of experience that I've
gone through to give them type of encouragement, you know,
empowerment to be undefeated. The title is exactly how I

(22:06):
want everyone to feel when they finished reading the book.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
To find a voice for yourself.

Speaker 3 (22:12):
It's it's hard and uncomfortable for me to talk about me.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (22:17):
I mean, you know, some people can sit and say
I did this, this, this, this, and that. It's that's
difficult for me.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
So who were your motivated? Who pushed you?

Speaker 3 (22:26):
To be honest? My husband pushed me big time, you know,
because he's like, babe, people need to hear that part.
People need to hear what you went through because everybody
assumes something else. Everybody assumes you know, you were given
this and not understanding that you built this and out
of the place that where you were when I built

(22:47):
it is really the journey and really the the story
that is probably encouraging somebody out there when they read it,
because it's I've grind it to get, you know, to
be this this media mogul, and I grind it to
I learned the executive producer role and creator role of

(23:08):
reality TV. In the moment, I didn't know anything about that.
But it was about survival mode. It was about in
my mind, it registered I need I want to have
a purpose, I want to have a legacy, and I'm
going to succeed period. And I think that it's just
picking yourself up in a space where you probably feel
it's beaten down of you that you've ever felt, and

(23:32):
figuring out that there is hope and there is a
light at the end of the tunnel. And it sounds crazy,
but it is so very, very very true, and I
share so much.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
Like I said in the book.

Speaker 3 (23:43):
That where you're going to be like, oh, I didn't
I didn't know, you know, I didn't know where this
came from. But I hope it encourages somebody. I think
it really will.

Speaker 2 (23:52):
You know, I was I've seen an interview that Shaq
had did and he was talking about your relationship, and
he was giving you so much praise. Did I did?
Said when you heard what would you think? What did
you think when you heard him say that?

Speaker 3 (24:09):
I really appreciated him for owning and owning that and
being accountable. I think where I was in life when
he did that interview, I didn't need it, but I
appreciated it. I think I had gone through so much
of the public telling me what I did when I
really didn't and and being accused of so many things

(24:32):
for so long that I had just settled in that
place right So by the time he did say it,
I was like, oh, well, you know, like thank you,
but I don't. I didn't need it, but I think
he needed it, so I I you know, I'm I'm
okay with it because I think he needed to get
that out and he needed to let me know that

(24:53):
he owned it. Even if he didn't say it directly
to me, he owned it, you know what I mean.
And I appreciate that it called you. You could have
called me, But it's okay.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
You know, children probably needed it. Yeah, yeah, I'm say,
all right, dad has validated Well we always knew, right,
you know, in public. Now everybody know, my friends, everybody
know my mom was a good woman.

Speaker 3 (25:18):
And they know. You know, one thing I did as
a mom. I never talked bad about their dad ever.
Even we could be over here arguing, but it's gonna be.
They never you know, they never knew, especially during the divorce,
because we we worked to get here right at first.
It wasn't this easy, and I was intentional about never

(25:38):
speaking bad in front of them about him. I mean,
no matter what was going on, they never really knew.
My kids are honestly learning a lot of truth out
of this room right now.

Speaker 2 (25:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:50):
Wow, that's the same happened with my family. There were
things that I went through and experiences that I've had
and trauma that I have and do that when I
wrote my book, they were like what they were calling me,
like girl and you didn't say you didn't know, And
it's been this hard, you know. But it's true that

(26:10):
when you're in that when you're writing, it's like it's
just you and the page. You know, you're just telling
stuff from your gut, right that it's hard for other
people to process because you know, people want to be
a part of being your savior, I guess, but they can't.
It's your story and your journey alone. You can't cheat
the process, right, Talk a little bit about that, Like

(26:33):
you had a whole process that you've been through to
get to the point of being the first lady of
a church. I just you know, discuss I mean, I've
always known you to be a responsible, respectable, beautiful woman,
but this is a new level and I want to
know more about the responsibilities of that as well.

Speaker 3 (26:56):
It is definitely a place that I never would have
seen myself, you know, But I do believe the journey
that I went on actually let prepared me for this space.
I wouldn't change a thing. I wouldn't change a tear.
I wouldn't change a moment of anger frustration for the reward,

(27:19):
because I think the reward is now and I feel
the best I've ever felt. I'm the happiest I've ever been,
and sitting in this first lady seat at the fulfillment
of seeing being able to lead with a leader of
this ever growing church and him feeding people consistently and

(27:41):
seeing lives change, and just sitting Someone always tells me, like,
I see you in church, and I see you like
light up when you know things are and I do.
It's like, it feels so good to know that we
collectively are feeding into people some that just don't feel
spoken to on a regular right the way kon ministers,

(28:02):
even if it's something that I engaged. You know, we
started this thing called NYT, not your typical Bible study
because culturally the culture is kind of like they feel
not accepted in church. You know, it's a little strict
and all the rules, and you know, the church folks
looking at the culture with the side eye, and I

(28:23):
wanted there to make sure there was a space for
culture to feel comfortable. So if I need to change
and make the beginning of Bible study outside look like
Coachella for y'all to come and eat a food, trucks,
bring your kids, have a good time, have a little concert,
and then we go in church and learn something that
you didn't you know, and sit and have a church service.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
If that's how I need.

Speaker 3 (28:46):
To shape things, Yeah, and engage the culture to like
come in. I promise you your life will be changed.
And that's what we're doing. And that, just that alone
is is my reward. The role I have embraced and
I have embraced in my own way. And Kean supports

(29:06):
me in this, you know, because first ladies have this
this bubble of how they are perceived. I don't fit
that bubble. My husband doesn't need me to fit that bubble.
And I'm I'm bringing the culture to faith in a
way that I know we can feel comfortable. And and
that is my reward.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
I feel so.

Speaker 2 (29:27):
Good in that. How did you guys meet a mutual friend?

Speaker 3 (29:30):
Believe it or not. A friend of mine and a
friend of his introduced us, and I like he I
really was not feeling the fact that he was a pastor.
I was like, m No, that's not my life, that's
that's not.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
What God has for me, you know, so I'm against him. Listen, right, right.

Speaker 3 (29:50):
I like pastors, I do, but not as my man.
So he was like, just go on a date, just
just go have coffee or whatever. And I reluctant. He
did and that moment changed my.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
Life because I think the misconception with pastors is that
they're not regular people, right, And then when you get
to peel the layers back, they're just regular, right, normal
human being who has a calling on them that they
could not ignore, right, So they have to walk in
there in the direction that God has for their for

(30:24):
their lives. But it doesn't take away that they still
like to go out and you know, have a good time,
good experiences. They like to laugh, they think the same things.
Is funny that we absolutely you know what I mean,
they still have regular life, right, Like why can't And
it's a gift, it's a God given calling that these

(30:45):
men and women have on their.

Speaker 3 (30:47):
Lives to share the word of God to the people.

Speaker 1 (30:52):
Right.

Speaker 3 (30:53):
But that doesn't make them perfect. So they're gonna make mistakes,
they're gonna you know, they have a good time.

Speaker 1 (30:58):
They laugh.

Speaker 3 (30:58):
I send my husband inappropriate means all attention, you know,
and he's gonna laugh, But I think for me, Keon
has been one individual in my life that has just
made me want to be a better person every single day,
Like watching his level of grace, watching how he just
loves people genuinely, Like, you know, we could be like hmmm,

(31:22):
I don't I ain't feeling that energy over there, and
he is going to be like, babe, you know, just
give it a chance, you know, like, sure, a little grace.
You don't know what. Learning that this late in life,
I'm like, wow, I need to be intentional about my
energy that I give out, put out what you want
to receive, and that is It's just something that stays

(31:43):
in my head consistently.

Speaker 1 (31:45):
And that first Lady life. You have to suspend your
first judgment about everybody you do, and you've got to
be able to get a little bit close or allow
people to get a little bit closer to you. And
it's a skill because I watched the first Lady at
my church. She's beloved, you know, a beautiful woman. However,
she's still very private, but nonetheless people don't feel like

(32:07):
she's so private that they can't talk to her right right, unapproachable. Now,
if you were not the first lady or in a
public role, you could just be like, I don't fuck.

Speaker 3 (32:17):
With you, right, you can You're not arid and you
gotta smile all the time, you know, you can't have
that rest in face, you know, But it's not. I
think after a while, since it becomes natural, like I
do genuinely love people. I have no problem being social.

Speaker 1 (32:36):
I'm that person.

Speaker 3 (32:38):
But I still am able to keep this this wall,
like this bubble like you. You're not gonna get on
the other side of the bubble, but I still can
love on you. I love the hug. I love to
have a good time. But I still live in this
private space for sure. And it's genuine It's not like
I'm putting on this first lady act. I really do
love people. I love our lighthouse nation being around them.

(33:01):
I'm always going, yeah, it is, it is. It is
just it's a great environment. We have a great I
mean in house, online, just community of people. And I
think once you are a part of it, you can't
help but to just shape yourself into the love that
you feel you exude, you are giving it because it's

(33:22):
just you. We're gonna drown you with the love. You're
gonna get it, and I just want.

Speaker 2 (33:26):
To say that, you know, just all the years that
I've watched, your life has been public for so many years,
and you've always carried yourself with a level of class
and dignity, you know, and grace no matter which situation.
I've always any any time I've ever seen you, I
never was like, I don't know why she's doing that. Well,
I've never had that conversation about you, And I just

(33:47):
want to say I commend that it feels like we
know you, but I know that there's more to you,
and there's a level of privacy. So hopefully Undefeated it
is gonna give.

Speaker 3 (33:55):
Us the journey it is to thank you. I was
trying to give a let you listen, somebody, somebody came
to church a couple of Sundays ago with that she
I said.

Speaker 1 (34:07):
I've linked said, so can we do the show? Show listen,
don't shoulders, Okay, don't do too much, Shawnie, don't do
too all? Right, one show, don't do try one lighthouse one. Well,
you know what. Speaking of lighthouse, there is a surprise

(34:29):
here today and that is Pastor key On joining us
to talk about Undefeated and his beautiful wife and We're
excited to have our brother to come and join the conversation.
So it's exciting because another one of our friends has
joined us on this show today. And I can just

(34:50):
tell you that, I mean, obviously, even before you married
our sister, I had been following you and listening to
my of your not not well. I guess your message
is you want to say, preaching, but it's a message
and you're such a strong leader. Your voice is so strong,

(35:11):
and to see the two of you get together, it's
so powerful. It comes across the screen. And so I'm
just so happy to have our brother, Pastor key On
Henderson in the building with us today. It's funny because on.

Speaker 2 (35:25):
This tourumping.

Speaker 1 (35:30):
On this tour, Yeah, we want to hear from Shannie,
But it's good to have your man be able to
step up and say what does undefeated like? What does
this mean to you to be able to support your bribe,
your wife in her endeavors, knowing that she's such a
powerful woman on her own.

Speaker 4 (35:48):
But look at y'all together, Yeah said The first word
that pops to me my mind is reciprocity, because where
do I go that she doesn't go?

Speaker 2 (35:56):
Right?

Speaker 4 (35:56):
So if I'm going to Africa, she's right there. If
I'm in London, she's right there. If I go across
the streets, she's right there. Sometimes I go to the kitchen,
I get there. So I felt like this was my
way to pay her back. And I've been saying on
her tour, they'll ask me questions and it's not about me,
it's about her. And I'm absolutely proof positive, you know,

(36:17):
I'm actually evidenced that she's undefeated because everything that came
before me suggested that she should make.

Speaker 2 (36:25):
It to me.

Speaker 4 (36:26):
And let me tell you, when I found her, she
was not damaged when I found her. She wasn't begging
when I found her, she wasn't hurt when I found her.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
She was healed.

Speaker 4 (36:34):
And so what I am reading in the book and
what you all are reading, is the story that I've
watched over the last few years. And I'm so proud
of her. It's amazing to see her do what she does.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
Wow, I don't even know what to ask you. That
was like a whole But like you said, you said,
you found her. It's so many people when we talked
about relationships, they always have like bad stories. So they
found people in bad times and hearing that you found
her when y'all both was at a strong time, Like,

(37:06):
how does that feel knowing that you found somebody that
was prepared for you, you were prepared for them, and
just seeing y'all grow together, how does that feel? Well?

Speaker 4 (37:13):
Let me add more context. She was fine.

Speaker 2 (37:15):
I wasn't oh okay.

Speaker 4 (37:17):
I wasn't okay. And I don't know if I believed
at the time that I met her that I was undefeated.
I actually met her defeated. I'd just come out of
a divorce. She had been single, I believe at the
time ten eleven years, and so when I met her,
I was still like Yeah. I told her, I told
he out the gate. I said, look, we can kick it.

(37:37):
I ain't never get married again. Wow, I told her,
I ain't never getting married again. I'm not going through
that again. I don't want to do it. And she,
you know, a little sassy. She said back to me, well,
how you know I want to marry you?

Speaker 3 (37:49):
Right right?

Speaker 4 (37:50):
She was tough, man. She was tough for me to
She was tough, but so I needed it. See, this
is the great thing about her being undefeated, that kind
of strength. She loaned it to me until I can
find myself, like she loaned me, everything is going to
be okay. Ain't nothing better than finding somebody who's already
where you're trying to get. So she had been through
what I was going through. She had already come over

(38:12):
what I was trying to climb over, and was able
to give me the road map on how to stay faithful,
how to stay calm, how to keep your head and
in the end everything will be okay. And so now
I am actually getting to the place she was when
I met her. And again in this book, which I
think if you listening to everybody needs to get it
right now, right now, I think that this book is

(38:35):
proof positive that you have to have the courage to
tell your own story, because when you tell your real story,
you have to tell it all and the people who
are in the story don't get to watch that story
and sanitize it because they did what they did in
the story. They showed up in your life the way
they showed up, and you shouldn't have to sanitize that
to tell you a real story.

Speaker 1 (38:56):
Let me ask you, Shanni, does that mean it was work?
Getting with him knowing that he wasn't one hundred percent
healed and ready, Like, is this work that you would
say to another woman is worth it?

Speaker 3 (39:08):
Due to the word absolutely, I think you know, there's
no growth in comfort, right. So I saw what he
was going through, and I knew what he was going
through because of course I had been there before. But
I felt like me working with him and supporting him
and going through it with him was worth the end

(39:28):
result because he's.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
It.

Speaker 3 (39:32):
Despite him being broken at the time, he still was
speaking to me in a way that I had never
been spoken to. That message, Yeah, and just I could
feel his love even in his damaged space. So to me,
I was putting in and it's kind of in me,
just the nurturing, right. I wasn't going to leave him,
even if we ended up just friends. I wasn't going

(39:52):
to leave him in that space, just kind of abandoned
him in pain and knowing where that pain is. So
even if it didn't end up where it ended up,
I was in it for the long haul. Just my
heart was there. And you know, despite his brokeness, he
still is him. So how he just spoke and you said,
it's a whole sermon, Like I get that every day

(40:14):
without him even trying. You know, I'll go to go
to him and just or he'll just look at me
sometimes be like what's going on?

Speaker 2 (40:21):
Like what are you?

Speaker 3 (40:22):
What's on your mind? He did it last night I
had like was staring out at something. It was like,
what are you thinking? And even when I talk about it,
sometimes it's just a quick encouragement or something. But sometimes
it's like let's just sit and you know, or come
give me a hug. Whatever it is, it's just we
We kind of just have that thing of feeding off

(40:42):
of each other. And I don't know if it's maturity.
I don't know if it's wisdom and knowing what you
Sometimes you don't need words, sometimes you just need the presence,
and he provided that for me, so it was it
was like second nature to do it.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
In return, like you was single for ten to eleven years,
he was, I want you to give people who looking
at relationships and saying I don't I'm done with it,
give them some level of advice and some encouragement. What
would you say to them.

Speaker 3 (41:08):
I'd say it's never too late and never never get
comfortable thinking you have this list of what I want,
what I don't want. Who would have thought I would
end up being a first lady and married to a
p If you but ask me, I would say absolutely not.

Speaker 1 (41:25):
I would have said that.

Speaker 3 (41:25):
I probably did say that. But don't get comfortable in
your comfort and know that you're just settling, knowing that
you're just fishing in the same pond. We tend to
do that. We tend to go to and then complain
about it like it ain't nobody out there. Well, that's
because you're still going to you know, our grocery stores, AGIB,
You still going to AGB, you know what I mean,

(41:46):
Like go somewhere else to try venture out and get
out of your comfort zone.

Speaker 1 (41:51):
That's what I would say.

Speaker 3 (41:52):
And I think that we have a solid prayer life together,
which I never had with anybody in a relationship I
never had, and I think that is a game changer
for us. And communication. So it's it's things that you
just learn in the process of life. Of course that
our game, but that would be my advice. Prayer which

(42:14):
your partner is important. And communication for sure.

Speaker 4 (42:18):
Yeah, I think see be guests, apples, all kinds. So
before you look for somebody, you got to find you,
because if you don't change, you're gonna find the same
version of the person. You left because you're going to
attract what you are right, And then I think that
most of us find a person the way they are,
and then we spend the rest of our life trying
to change them into what we want them to be.

(42:40):
I think that you, if a person is worth discovering
in their current state, you have to make a decision
that you will love that person for the rest of
your life if they don't change, not if they do.
And so what we came into the relationship saying like,
all right, I'm at my worst. Can you handle me
like this for the rest of my life? Because if
you can handle me like this for the rest of

(43:01):
my life, I promise you, I'm going to get better.
I promise you. So I think that we have to
in our search for relationships. I think the first relationship
you have to have is with you. You got to
start with you. Am I psychologically prepared for this? Am
I patient enough? Am I non selfish? All of those
things You've got to ask yourself and then make up

(43:21):
in your mind that if this person does not change,
I can handle them exactly this way. Any change that
comes after this is icing on the cake. And so
that change we are fostering together. And let me tell you,
it isn't easy because we have to make the changes
both privately and publicly to maybe you have a very

(43:41):
public life, you understand what it's like now. You understand
what it's like to be scrutinized for clips of your life,
and then you run into the rut of trying to
satisfy public opinion and then being true to yourself. And
so the greatest thing about the first part of our
relielationship is that we dated for six months without letting

(44:03):
anybody know we dated.

Speaker 1 (44:05):
Clearly, Yeah, clearly.

Speaker 4 (44:09):
Because like once everybody finds out. And just like as
a preacher, you know, she says she couldn't think of
being married to a preacher. How do you think I thought,
being a pastor that I would marry the woman who
started basketball?

Speaker 1 (44:23):
So that's what I want to know. Like, this woman
is responsible for a show that has been at the
center of major controversies. Right you meet her, you got
to now I have pastors who are my best friends.
My own pastor W. Franklin Richardson is my best friend

(44:44):
in the whole wide world. Jamaal Bryant, Rudy McKissick I
mean across this nation. I'm friends with pastors. I know
what they go through. I understand the judgment and the
church folk who are doing worse than any worse than
you can imagine. They ain't living all of this perfect
life that they try to push on their pastor and

(45:06):
others within the church. They have so much judgment. And
so how does that work that you come and say
because so many you know, so many people have misconceptions
about people on these shows. Right, Jennifer Williams is one
of my best friends in the whole world. And people,
if you listen to what they say on TV, it's
like she is this horrible person and she's really very sweet.

(45:28):
She really doesn't like to start problems with people. But
there are people who believe from what they the edits
and the clips of something different. Yandy. People told me
stay away from her. Yandy has been there to save
my life at times when I was down and out
and other people just couldn't understand. So these are my friends.
I know, Shannie a beautiful woman. So how do you

(45:49):
bring her with the misconceptions of the TV to the church.

Speaker 4 (45:53):
Yeah, because I didn't meet the TV producer, I met
the girl she's not what she does.

Speaker 2 (45:59):
She does that for a living.

Speaker 4 (46:00):
And here's the other thing. When I met her and
we finally start talking about marriage, this is what I knew.
She says, if you require me to, I'll walk away
from it all. Wow, and her exactly she said, I
will walk away from it all. And here is the
mark of love. You don't have to walk away from
what you built before me, because I'm not gonna let

(46:20):
these people make me change you into a version of
yourself you won't be happy with to satisfy them. Because
if she changes into a version of herself that makes
them happy, they will soon become unhappy with the version
she changed herself into. People cannot be satisfied. So, since
this marriage is about what goes on in our house,
you do you, I'm gonna do me, and we're gonna

(46:43):
show up in the world with the character and consistency
of love and the highest vibrations to let people know
that no weapon formed against us will ever prosper. We're
gonna love each other through everything, and we gonna love
them while we do the job. Yeah, that's just the
way we live.

Speaker 2 (46:58):
Wow, that's a sermon. R. I don't know how it's
hard to question you because you were just answering all
this stuff right, right, right.

Speaker 4 (47:08):
But you know why it is because I'm not answering questions.
I'm giving you my heart, like I'm not who's smart
enough to make up stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (47:15):
That's the fact.

Speaker 4 (47:15):
I'm just speaking the truth like I am. This is
how I show up in the world. I am consistently
optimistic about everything. Everything is going to be okay. That's
such everything. Light House Church, Lighthouse Church, Man, you need
to call them. June twenty first through twenty third, we
got a conference called cry Out, and I think that's

(47:37):
I think your co host. I haven't confired.

Speaker 1 (47:42):
Where to go. That's where I go. Man, oh man,
let's do it. I'm excited. I just want to ask
one last question. I think it's important for people to
hear about blending families, right, the children come together. Because
when I watched the videos of it's one video that

(48:03):
you all had out about the coupons. Oh yeah, that
was just so funny to me. And you were like,
I got coupons to bring this one in and get
these groceries and I'm gonna use this. And it just
made me think about the beauty of everyone coming together.
It's a lot of y'all us, it's a lot of
it's a lot about how that worked and again telling
your children that the woman who started basketball wise is

(48:26):
about to be my wife.

Speaker 3 (48:27):
I looked up though, because Kean's daughter is so young
that she I don't even think she knew. She didn't
she didn't have a club where I was, and and
Mike still not quite grasp it. I'm not sure, but
I she might just be like, that's that's Shawnny my kids.
I was slightly concerned because you know, they're all older

(48:49):
now and my boys are grown, so it's like I'm
bringing I'm bringing a man man man in my life
and they have been the men in my life, you know,
And it it just worked out so well. Like again,
it was one of those moments when Kean finally asked
me to I said, finally, sorry, you didn't take that

(49:10):
ye when he finally asked, But my boy, my boy said,
what took you so long?

Speaker 1 (49:21):
That's what that was there.

Speaker 3 (49:22):
So I'm like, what took you so long? We've been
waiting for this, Like you make our mother happy, like
we haven't seen her this kind of happy before and
they love. I mean, they have their own relationship with him.
They call him on their own time. Everybody has their
own thing. Even my youngest daughter, who just turned eighteen,
LUs when she said that watching Keon be a father

(49:45):
to his daughter or like traits that she longed for
because you know, we divorced, so she's just had me
in the home. But seeing him be a full time dad,
you know, every day, sitting down doing the homework, disciplining
his daughter or whatever it is, she was like, like,
that's so awesome, even even if she gets in trouble.

(50:06):
It's just like I want that, Like I want somebody.
I want a dad to say don't do that no more,
you know, like or you get in here, it's too dark.
So whatever that is, she just was like she didn't
know how to even express it, but she was like
that thing that he has, even if she's doing the
wrong thing, him reprimanding her, Like I just I feel

(50:26):
like I didn't get that, and I want that. So
they have a bond that's like crazy. She calls him
her best friend and vice versa, but it was it's
truly a blessing because I think they are He didn't
step in and like I'm your daddy. He stepped in
and was like, just allow me to be whatever missing
piece that you need you know me to be. That's

(50:47):
all I'm here for. I'm not gonna overstep, I'm not
gonna interject myself. Just let me know where you need me,
and I'm here. And that's how they just functioned so well.

Speaker 4 (50:57):
The first thing we are asked me to do was discipliner.
She did not ask me to shoot the basketball. She
didn't ask me for a pair of shoes. She asked
me to tell her when I saw her doing something wrong,
because she saw me doing that with my daughter. I
didn't do this with the boys because they were all older.
But the girls, I actually watched them and I told her.

(51:17):
She said, you know, your relationship with them is so good.
I said, it's because they have a father, so I
don't need to be that. All I did was sit
back and watch what was missing, and I became what
was missing. The other thing about blended families, and my
wife and I used this so imagine drinking and smoothie
and you put all of the fruit inside of the blender.

(51:39):
If you ever notice that, no matter how much you
blend the fruit, if you put strawberries in it. The
seeds will always be there. I recognize that when the
family is blended, you may get everything working together, but
the seed still exists, right, So they are still sha
Kills kids, and Caitlyn is still Keon's daughter, and that

(52:00):
seed ain't going nowhere. So you got to learn to
work with the seed. And and that's what I've done,
and I believe that that is the stratum of our relationship.
And when we are goes to college, I am going
to cry like I get to her because that is
my child.

Speaker 2 (52:17):
So how does that you have? You have a wife,
How do y'all get along together? Devol?

Speaker 4 (52:27):
So my ex wife is out of the picture. She
doesn't care to be a part of what we're doing.
And that's fine because everybody should have be on decision.
And that's not a disparitual mark against her. She has
a choice as a single woman. Her ex husband. I
get along well because I am not intimidated by his success.

(52:48):
I think he is a great humanitarian.

Speaker 2 (52:55):
I know.

Speaker 4 (52:58):
I know that you get along when when when the
kids graduate, we sit next to each other. When when
it's time to walk home on the court, we walked together.
That's that's romance, that's right. So I love that love
and it has to be my friend for the sake
of her, because being his adversary makes it too hard
for hr and and it's a win, it's a lose

(53:19):
lose for both of us.

Speaker 2 (53:20):
So we get along.

Speaker 4 (53:21):
We've never had a side word our problem.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
That's bless God, just amazing.

Speaker 3 (53:28):
He's too short, like you get We hear that growing
up and you don't get it until you get older,
and you're like it, really, it takes too much energy
to be nasty and negative and argue like.

Speaker 1 (53:40):
Time, you know, when things happen in life and you
know you kind of have to grow past it regardless
of what, because when you stay stuck, it just stays
within you. Other people are moving on life exactly and.

Speaker 3 (53:55):
Looking old and you know, I mean like all things bad,
like nobody. We just don't want to put that kind
of energy out And it's just you want to put
out the energy you want to put out the energy
you want to receive. So and that's been something that
I really really am intentional about doing, is just putting
out the energy that I want in return.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
Well, listen, this has just been great just listening to
all that is happening within your lives. And you know,
we were in this series bonding of the sexes. We
wanted to change and sort of flip the narrative because
it's usually a battle of the sexes. And when we
learned that you would be in town and willing to

(54:37):
come on with us, and then the surprise of PASSI
keyon coming as well, It's like, what better couple to
talk to in this moment than two people who come
from different worlds. People just would never have imagined that
the two of you would be together. And I think
that's a testament to find in love, the right love,

(54:58):
wherever it is right, and how you find that. I
don't know. I'm looking, so you know you don't look
don't look just like I mean, But I have not
been looking for so long that I'm thinking maybe.

Speaker 2 (55:13):
Different.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
Okay, Okay, I want to look out.

Speaker 4 (55:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
But we appreciate y'all so much for joining us on
Team I. It's special.

Speaker 2 (55:21):
Definitely appreciate. That was a dope interview. It was it
was good.

Speaker 1 (55:31):
I'm glad they we need more in person.

Speaker 2 (55:33):
We definitely need more in person, and we need more
people that are working on themselves right when you listen
to her and then you listen to him. They both
had to get prepared for each other.

Speaker 1 (55:44):
But he says he wasn't all the way prepared, but
he was.

Speaker 2 (55:48):
Ready to be prepared. You understand, I'm saying, you have
to be open to listening to to feeling too, embracing
a different ideology and understanding, you know, just talking about
their relationship and then like you said that his relationship
with Shaq and who is my friend? And I made
sure that was non you know, but I really grew
to like him just listening to him. It just seemed

(56:08):
like he was authentic individual. No, never met this is
my first time, but just I've seen him and I
always you know, like the way that he preaches, but
just in his presence, you just sense a level of authenticity,
you know, and just I know Shaq, So just understanding
that as long the dynamic and just seeing these are

(56:29):
just two men, right who have understood their different places
in life, you know, and they share you know, this
woman in different aspects. You know, this is his kid's
mother and this is his wife, and they come together
and he loves those kids. When he talks about the
relationship with those kids, you know, it's just amazing just
to see just adult. Yeah, and he loves he definitely

(56:51):
loves her and she loves him. And it's just like,
I want to read the book, just really get into
the book and delve into it because you know they
gonna take the SoundBite. Yeah, as now we've seen the
one SoundBite that they've taken and she clarified it and
hun Shack is just on the same page. So dope interview.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
Yeah, I think the entire bonding of the Sexist series.
The thing that has come out of interview at the interview,
at the interview is people talking about your self work,
and you know, for me at least, that has That's
what stands out for me the most, that like all
of these relationships that we have all participated at some

(57:32):
other point in life, you can see where your unhealed self,
your toxic self, it entered the relationship, right, because that's
just what it is. Young. I was having a conversation
with somebody the other day and I was like, yeah,
I mean, you know, when I was young, you know,
I thought that physically fighting, like physically fighting was love.

(57:53):
I really did think that My baby father and I
used to be rolling around everybody. People in the community
that we group, where we were when we were teenagers,
they all know, like, that's what I thought was love
and that's and I didn't see that in my household.
But it's just in the culture, Like you know, the neighbor,
the TV, you watch TV, you watch shows or whatever,

(58:15):
and it's like the wonder guy who seems to be
paying the most attention to a woman is the one
who's like yelling at her or arguing this and that,
and we that's why culture is so important because we
often overlook what's right in front of us. So the
example of my mother and father, who never were in
physical altercations, I've never seen that. They certainly had arguments,

(58:37):
but physical altercations I've never I never saw my I've
never my father is the type of person if he
has to put his hands on you, he's probably gonna
kill you because he gets that angry at that point.
But he doesn't. That's not him. And I've watched my
mother a futile, you know, she a little fire. It's
a little different, Vontiel different. So a couple of times
she moves some chairs and tables, not against him but

(58:59):
other people. But that's just not something I was raised with. Nonetheless,
I feel like I looked past them and looking at
you know, culture in general, TV shows, other family members, neighbors,
and somehow I believe that that's what love was.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
So, you know, it's so crazy about that. I don't
mean to cut you up. It's the exact opposite for me,
because I grew up in domestic violence, right, and it
was normalized and I never wanted that like they used
to do. It seemed normal, and I never felt like
it was normal for me, Like the trauma that I
got from it, I never wanted to do.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
Maybe that's what happens. It's the opposite.

Speaker 2 (59:38):
It was the opposite, Like so it was for me.
It's like seeing my mother and father fight like it
used to. It used to drain me so emotionally, and
then somehow they figure out and be back together, and
I'd be like, oh, like, I don't want nobody to
hurt me. I don't want to hit nobody. I don't
want it, Like if I love you and I cared
for you, why would I want to do that to
each other? And somehow they normalize it, and I watched,

(59:59):
like you said, it was it became normal to where
when my mother my father passed away, my mother used
to try to like entice men to be physical live
literally watch it and be like, yo, this is crazy.
And I see it play out in my family. My
sister like it's like she tries to do anything to
get some type of physical thing from you, and it's

(01:00:20):
like I never wanted that, Like, to me, that's the
most toxic shit ever.

Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
But again, it's the self healing because of course when
at that time it was whatever. But then, you know,
as I got older, and especially when I finally actually
was in a relationship with a man, a real man
who is also healed, speaking to you know, the dynamics
between Shawnee and past the key on, he was just like,

(01:00:47):
we're not doing that, Like I'm just not doing this
whole thing, you you know, yell at me and then
we're doing it Like I'm just not That's not who
I am and as and once I began to learn
that and start working on myself, it made certain things
about the relationship better. So with that being said, I
feel like from this series, that's the thing that I
have that's my takeaway is work self work is first.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
You got to love yourself and work with yourself. Now,
for my I don't get it. So first of all,
shout out to the Dallas Mavericks who one went away
from the finals.

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
It's still a basketball season, or it's definitely still I mean,
I know it's a basket, but I thought it was
like a I don't know what.

Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
Hopefully by the time you hear this, they'll be in
the finals, you know, because this is the day after
so June fourth is the final that no, I mean,
they'll be in the finals because tonight they play. If
they win tonight, then they'll go to the finals. They'll
be there.

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
So tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow. Oh what I was
thinking about.

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
But anyway, my I don't get it is about my
brother Kyrie Urban. Shout out to Kyrie Irvan, you know, like,
because you know I do too. It's just that you know,
I've watched, you know, one of arguably one of the

(01:02:22):
the best all around skilled players in basketball history go
through so much for being the principled individual. Like I mean,
we all make mistakes and there's a lot of people
who we don't agree with all the time and things,
but the things that Kyrie has been under fire forward,
just principal things, you know. And I've watched him be scrutinized, criticized,

(01:02:48):
disrespected and still maintain his level of manhood and stand
firm in his conviction. And the things that he's done
outside of basketball, the humanitarian things that he's done outside
of basketball, just makes me that much more of a fan.
But the way he puts he's arguably the best, not

(01:03:11):
even really arguably. I don't think it's too many people
argue that Kyrie doesn't have the best handle in NBA history.
But the way that he has silence the haters, The
way that the same people that was telling him to retire,
the same people that was throwing dirt on his name,
that was saying he doesn't want to play basket when

(01:03:32):
he shouldn't be, and he's a cancer, and the locker
room all these things, the way that he went through that,
no same people now want to give him praise and
they want to talk about how he might him and
Luca might be the best backcourt and how he's playing
at this phenomenon of the same people that was throwing

(01:03:52):
dirt that I literally had to call out a bunch
of times, are now singing his praise, and I don't
really get it, you know, state like, we don't want
you over here. Me and Kyrie, the Kyrie No, no, no,
we don't. Me and Kyrie don't want y'all stay over
there where you was that where y'all was throwing dirt
on his name and y'all wanted to see him out
the NBA, and y'all was saying everything negative about that man,

(01:04:15):
and he was staying in firman's conviction and he stood
up like a man. Y'all stay over there. Us the
real Kyrie fans that stood with him. That listen, I
started wearing Nike because of Kyrie. Shout out to Kyrie,
you know, but those of us who really stood with him,
we don't want y'all fair weather friends. We don't need

(01:04:38):
y'all to come back and want to get on the
bandwagon and talk about Kyrie and be posting about y'all
stay over there. We don't need the commentators that tried
to hate. We don't need you. We just don't need you.
We don't need the energy. We don't need it because
we want authentic energy over here. So shout out to Kyrie.
Continue to prove him wrong. God willing you win this

(01:05:00):
championship and that right Oh that's gonna be that right there.
If you win that championship, you should have been at
the game. Listen, man, listen, I'm gonna try to make
it to one of these games. Kyrie. Look, you know,
I mean number one fan, baby, hook me up, get
a brother, see the something hook me up. I mean,
I just don't know. It's hard to get them tickets.
It's hard to get I'm not gonna be on I'm

(01:05:22):
not gonna be on nose if I go see Kyrie.
I need to be on the ground while on the
court he got on, while he got on the Kyrie moccasins.
Kyrie is killing him in moccasins. Nobody, you don't even.

Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
Realize that, man, But you know, obviously I love Kyrie.

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
And moccasins, the Kyrie moccasins.

Speaker 1 (01:05:42):
I love Kyrie and his family. And you know, my
thing is, I think I would say two things about
this one. Kyrie is a complex individual that I understand
well because I have I share the complexities of wanting
to be like the loved and appreciated and all of that,

(01:06:03):
and in many places I am and he is as well.
But because I have this thing on me and it's
you know, it's a calling that happens to some of
us that makes us speak out about things and and
makes us uncomfortable in spaces where other people are able

(01:06:23):
to easily conform, they're able to easily adapt and conform,
and certain people can't write. And I'm not talking about,
you know, just being a hard headed person that's always
in trouble and all of that. That's not what I'm
talking about. I'm saying that when you look at Kyrie,
you know that you can see it in his face
that he you can tell in the way that he

(01:06:45):
carries himself and the things that he's not really involved
in right that he deals with those complexities of the
voices in your head that's telling you this is not right.
You know, this is unjust. This is something you need
to speak out on. And I know this because we
discussed it. You feel like you want to contain it,

(01:07:08):
because who the hell wants to constantly be under fire
like you? Who wants to always be in a controversial
space or situation, And sometimes you end up speaking on
things or making a move before you don't. It's just instinctive,
like you just you just out there like I'm not
doing that, or I'm gonna say this thing, or I'm
going to I don't. I can't. My spirit won't allow

(01:07:31):
me to just be like, okay, let's just go along
to get along, you know, with certain world worldly issues,
not people's personal business, by the way, I'm talking about
like issues, about things that impact us as a society.
And so I feel for him because I know what
he goes through, and I know that sometimes it's like

(01:07:52):
a haunting, it really is.

Speaker 2 (01:07:54):
It's a it's a very lonely place because when when
you don't fit into statu quote and you're not comfortable
with status quo all the time, and you gotta be
the voice that says something that's different than where everybody's
going is, sometimes it's lonely.

Speaker 1 (01:08:09):
Yeah, And every time I try to do something anything
other than that, it doesn't work out for me spiritually, mentally,
it just doesn't. And you know, I was in a
space a few days ago with some beautiful, amazing, amazing
Black women that I love and they love me right,

(01:08:30):
they love me, and I know it. And yet even
with all of that, I still feel like I have
this imposter syndrome or like I'm not worthy of being
in the space and they and to know that would
kill them because they love me, and I hold my

(01:08:50):
own in the space and I'm you know, I'm not.
This is not new, this is almost this is thirty
years of my life. These people respect me, and you know,
they me, they check on me, and yet still and
I don't even know if it is imposter syndrome, which
I think it is a little bit of that, but
I don't know if it's really that I need to
be clear about classifying it is it is. It is

(01:09:14):
a sense of like I am the outsider. I always
feel like an outsider in every space that I'm in
where there are people, and of course not activist spaces,
but other places where there are women or men who
are advocates, but they're doing things from a different perspective.

(01:09:35):
I feel like an outside. I feel that way within
some of the organizations that I'm a part of. And
so when I look at Kyrie, I know what he
suffers with. I know it and I understand it, and
it's no joke. It can give you bouts of depression,
like you really have to work on it. And thank
god he has a supportive family that is there to
help him keep his life on track and to keep

(01:09:58):
his mental state of mind in a positive place. And
we have that as well, right like we have family.
We have our or until freedom and extended or until
freedom family that helps us to kind of stay aligned.
And so, you know, so I would just say that's
my first thing is that people need to be really
careful about that and to be mindful of the fact

(01:10:20):
that just because you're an insider and you're cool and
you you know, everybody likes you and whatever, and then
therefore when outside or somebody who has some awkward tendencies
comes around you, are you allow that person to be
castigated and vilified Like that's not okay. You should actually

(01:10:41):
be like, you know what, It's something about I'm accepted.
I'm invited to everything. I remember everybody, all my friends,
they get invited to the bougie stuff, you know, and
they get to go to the White House and they
get to go, and I'm like, okay, well I don't
get to go, right And most times I don't get
to go. And it's not because I'm a criminal, you

(01:11:02):
know what I mean. It's not because I have some
horrid background. It's because I dare to speak truth to power.
So imagine that. How do you feel about yourself that
you're there and I'm not. That's what I think. And
again I have many people who know that, and so
they go into rooms that they call my name, like
you know, they go to it. They make people feel uncomfortable, like, yeah,

(01:11:25):
you know Tamika who's not here yet she did this.
You know what I'm saying. So I'm just saying I
understand him for that. And then the second point I
would put out there is that Kyrie has been in
some of the most controversial moments a strong voice for justice,
and that makes people scared, and even your own people

(01:11:46):
will try to tear you down on the Master's behalf
because he dares to save free Palace.

Speaker 3 (01:11:53):
He dares to say free.

Speaker 1 (01:11:54):
Palestine into and now he learns. So I'm not gonna
say it, but I'm gona wear a little something because
you're gonna know where I stand. And those people who
are too cowardly to do it because they and it
doesn't matter how much money they have. They could be
the biggest athletes in the world. They got all the money,
and you know what they post on their page. I
stand with Israel. They they and won't even come back,

(01:12:17):
which is cool, right, Like I would never do that.
I would never do it because I can't stand with
a genocide that's taking place. Do I stand with Jewish people, absolutely? Absolutely?
But to say I stand with a.

Speaker 2 (01:12:30):
State, most and most of the Jewish people that we.

Speaker 1 (01:12:33):
Know, the Jewish people that I know, the ones that
I'm close to, they don't say genocide that is happening
to the Palaestinian people either. But these folks will share
that knowing what it means, and won't even double back
to say, yo, I do stand with Israel, but I
also want to challenge Israel to be its best self

(01:12:53):
and not to kill Palestinian people. And I'm also calling
for and demanding a ceasefire. Howardly to do that, And
so when he does it, then you know what, he
becomes a problematic person. He's always oh, kyrie, kyrie. You know,
he makes people uncomfortable. So I just got to say
shout out to that black man for being a real man,

(01:13:14):
an actual man, and not just a puppet and a
coward who's all about money. And because he still got money,
why because he gives it to all these organizations, right, Kyrie,
You you don't even have to call him. If he
see you post something and it's something that touches him,
you'll just get a donation from him to help you.
So you know, that's the type of man that he is,

(01:13:37):
and that's the type of man that we support.

Speaker 2 (01:13:39):
And all the time, shout out to Kyrie. Continue to
be great, brother. We got your back, you know, continue
to silence to hate this man. You mind if you
like one of us, your honorary outside outside of you know,
because you're not gonna always be right. You're not gonna
always be wrong, but you gonna always be authentic.

Speaker 4 (01:13:57):
Yeah, you so to you.

Speaker 2 (01:14:02):
That that's so. Check out the video version of TMO.

Speaker 1 (01:14:13):
Every single Wednesday on Iwoman dot TV. That's how we
yoned