The Villainization of Black Women

This week Mysonne and Tamika first speak on the controversy surrounding Erica Mena and Spice argument, that led to racial slurs. Later on in the epsiode they spoke with jounalist Meghann Cuniff, where she shared more insight on the Tory Lanez and Megan Thee Stallion case. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
That's what's up. Family. It's your girl to meek A D.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Mallory and it's your boy my song in general, and we.

Speaker 1 (00:11):
Are your hosts of street politicians.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
The place where the streets and politics.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Meet my song. How you doing, sir oh Man?

Speaker 3 (00:19):
I had a long weekend, but I'm blessed and holly favorite,
you know, doing God's work as usual in yourself.

Speaker 4 (00:26):
I'm doing good, been with my granddaughter. It's been a
good holiday weekend. That ends my attempt at a month
long vacation. August is the month I tried two months
throughout the years, you know, I try August and I
try uh December, well, from Thanksgiving through Christmas or New

(00:48):
Year's I try to slow down as much as possible.
So and I'm blessed to be able to do that
with all the other things that I do. But I
until freedom work. It just doesn't really allow that. We
talked about it last week. It's it's kind of hard
to really really really cut everything off. But I do
feel a little restored. I feel rested. I feel like

(01:10):
I enjoyed myself and I took.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
Some much needed time.

Speaker 4 (01:14):
And so now this weekend I got a chance to
spend with my granddaughter, who I love so very much.
He's so sweet and so precious and so inquisitive and
so aggressive, and you know, it feels good. So now
it's time to get back to work.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
Yeah, I was. I was with my grandson yesterday. Man.

Speaker 3 (01:36):
We took my my sons to see him. We had
a little pool out in. So he is just he's
something else. He is a handful and he loves his daddy,
so he's a daddy's boy. So that was dope, man.
But yeah, man, it's been it's been definitely been a
long month. Unfortunately, you know, I don't really never have

(01:57):
the opportunity to completely break away.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
From things I've been. I was a soccer dad all weekend.

Speaker 3 (02:02):
Both of my sons, like y'all know, they both play soccer,
so they were in the tournament for the holiday tournament.

Speaker 2 (02:10):
And those tournaments started eight.

Speaker 3 (02:11):
Nine in the morning and an hour a way, so
that means you got to get up at six six
thirty to get ready to get there by eight thirty because.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
You got to be there in advance for the game.

Speaker 3 (02:21):
So and they don't finish till like two in the afternoon,
and then they end up the scalding heat. You know,
this is a hot weekend, so it's ninety degrees outside
and they both got two and three games back to back,
so it was a long weekend, but you know, you
know it was.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
It was.

Speaker 3 (02:37):
It's always preasurable to watch your sons and watch your
offspring engage.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
In sports and do things that they like, so you know,
I can't complain.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
Well, that's good.

Speaker 4 (02:47):
You know, I feel like I did that and I
know all about it. And it's funny because in the
summer it's really really hot out there. My child played football,
But in the like when it starts getting cooler, then
it's freezing, and you still got to be out there.
And it doesn't matter if you went out the night before,

(03:09):
you still got to show up. You still got to
have their stuff washed, prepared. It's no joke.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
You really have to be ready to have children.

Speaker 4 (03:18):
And I and I and you know, I think about
so many people out here who we've heard stories recently.
And I know there've always been people to kill their
kids or to do horrible, horrific things to their children,
but now that you know, but it's maybe because it's
online more, I don't know what it is. And maybe
it's pre cod I mean post COVID, the pandemic. But people, really,

(03:44):
some people just don't need kids. They really don't because
all that stuff that you're talking about. While to you
it's not it comes natural. When I had to do it,
I wouldn't say it came natural because I was much younger,
but I still did it, and I had a lot
of support from my family. My partner at the time
was the coach, so we had a lot of support.

(04:04):
But if there's somebody out there, a mother or a
father who is trying to do most of it alone,
it is no joke, no joke. And people mentally, they're
not all able to handle the responsibility of working and
trying to keep.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
Your kids in activities.

Speaker 4 (04:22):
God forbid, your child has some type of disability or
some type of issue, and you're trying to keep up
with the programs and this and that and the third
and cook food and blah blah blah. It's enough to
make people lose their minds. And you know, it's just
very very what's the word that I'm looking for. I
don't want to say dangerous, but it can be. It

(04:45):
can be dangerous for people to try to raise children
in this society where things are so expensive and sports
for kids is like sports, like real professional sports. So
it's a lot. I mean, bless y'all heart because they're
still young. And you know, here comes a little girl.

(05:08):
Just looking at my granddaughter as she is growing, she
has been when I say she's aggressive. If she wants something,
she's going to do everything you put it, tell a no,
put it down. She'll go around the other way, she'll
slide backwards, she's going to figure out how to get
that cup of that thing.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
And when you tired, you like damn.

Speaker 4 (05:30):
So you know, And of course that doesn't mean I'm
saying I see how or that it's an excuse for people,
But I just know everybody doesn't need kids.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
I agree one hundred percent.

Speaker 3 (05:40):
That's why I always say that you can't force somebody
to have a kid that's definitely not ready to have
a kid, because you're doing more harm for.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
The kid in that individual than anything. So I'm all
on board with that.

Speaker 4 (05:53):
No, really, So let's get into our topics because today
we have a good guess and they're going to be
coming on shortly, and so I want to make sure
that we do talk about our topics, because we've also
got some things that need to be you know, covered,
and one of the things that is speaking of children
and how everybody does need children and it takes a

(06:13):
village to raise each child. This year, and I think
this is the second year that the NYPD, the New
York Police Department, did something around cease fires that I
think is really really important, needs to probably go a
step further. But we'll talk about why I say that

(06:34):
in a moment. But they went to the homes of
or and not all not all of it was home visits,
but they found got in touch with communicated with whether
it be home visits or you know, seeing them in
the street. At least forty gang members or people that
they have they have that they considered being gangs. Because

(06:56):
I don't know these all of these folks, so maybe
they they would say they're not in the gang at all,
but they are people who have been identified as shooters
or problematic or in problems or maybe you know, somebody
in the community knows about some issues that they may
have had or beefs that they're in. And they went
to found these people and asked them to have a

(07:19):
cease fire over labor Day weekend, and it seems that
shootings were down.

Speaker 1 (07:26):
And hopefully this is a part of it.

Speaker 4 (07:27):
It's not one thing, and that's what I always say
that it's not one thing. It's not just that they
went to find these folks and that the NYPD. But
then you also have the crisis management system under the
you know, the the direct I don't even want to
say supervision because you know, people don't really like when
you use that terminology. There's a lot of leaders, but

(07:49):
our brother at Mitchell as the czar for Anti violence
in the City of New York, and you know, and
the the whole crew that's been working alongside the Mayor's
office to try to reduce violence. So you have that
going on during Juve, which is the parade that happens

(08:11):
every Labor Day in Brooklyn. And then of course you
just have lots of community organizations doing work. So when
you put all of that together, it's a real good
gumbo that helps to address violence and going out actually.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
Communicating with people.

Speaker 4 (08:26):
First of all, there are people who might be super
problematic that when they got either knock at the door
or a conversation on the sidewalk.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
Or a text message or you know.

Speaker 4 (08:36):
Whatever that actually may have made them feel like, damn,
somebody actually sees me.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
You never know to come to me.

Speaker 4 (08:45):
And put the kind of responsibility in my lap to
help the city be safe so that children and families
can be outside and enjoy the weekend without there being
violent incidents that make people uncomfortable and unable to come outside.

Speaker 1 (09:01):
So I think it was a good initiative.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
It is a good initiative, but it also scares you.

Speaker 3 (09:06):
Right when you've been identified, you on the list as
a shooter, and somebody that potentially out there shooting, It's like, yo,
oh shit, they know my name, They not through my door,
you know what I'm saying. I gotta calm down. I
need to rethink this because I ain't trying to go
to jail.

Speaker 5 (09:21):
You know.

Speaker 3 (09:21):
If I'm on If I'm in the police station and
my name came up and they knock on this door,
it ain't really too much good things. It's either somebody's
looking for me. I'm involved in some shit, or I've
been at somebody that they probably are watching all the time.
So it's it's basically a heads up that you got
to straighten your shit up.

Speaker 4 (09:38):
Man.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
Yeah, absolutely one hundred percent.

Speaker 2 (09:43):
It is.

Speaker 4 (09:43):
It is definitely a sign that you better get your
shit together, because it's like a branch with many leads,
because one side is like, hey, we're coming to you
with the responsibility hoping that you'll respect us as we
are respecting you. We're all so acknowledging that you think
you some kind of like whatever whatever, you think you

(10:05):
are a boss or whatever in the community, which is
some bullshit, but nonetheless that's what you think. So we
also coming to you in that respect. But finally, we're
on your ass, we're on your heels, and we know
who you are. We know your name, we know where
you're from, we know the shit that's going on, we
know exactly about you and Ray Ray's situation, we know
all these things that's going on, and so we're here.

(10:27):
You know we're coming to you, and that is that's
also another part of it. The further piece though that
I said is kind of like missing, or maybe it's not. Well,
it is missing because when I think about what's happening
in the city of Newark with Mayor ros Baraka, and
we were talking about this the other day, that they

(10:48):
are actually they're employed, they are off the street and
into jobs, they're into programs. There's money going into their
pocket their family based upon on them doing work around
violence prevention. So I feel like if you can find
these forty to fifty people, then you should probably employed

(11:11):
find them and make sure that they have money in
their body exactly.

Speaker 3 (11:14):
Give them, give them incentives to do something different. I
totally agree. I tell you all the time, crime and
violence is incentivized in our community, right, so if we
want something else, then we got to incentivize that as well.
You can't make people think they're going we can get
paid for doing negativity, and they can't be compensated and
paid for doing something positive.

Speaker 2 (11:34):
You know, absolutely, it's not appealing.

Speaker 3 (11:37):
Nobody wants to be broke, so they're gonna figure out,
all right, I can get some money doing this.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
I can get some money do it. That's what I'm
gonna do. Now.

Speaker 3 (11:43):
If you show them, look you, if you take the
time out to be a you know, a piece intervening
a violence interrupted in these communities, if you utilize that
same power that you have to do something good to
save lives that put them in jeopardy, We're gonna pay
you for that.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
I can give you some skills train them to get power.

Speaker 3 (12:04):
People want power, they want position. You know a lot
of these people, that's what they want. They want to
be known. So if they can be famous and not
infamous and it can benefit them and they ain't gonna.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
Whisk their freedom or risk they life, why wouldn't they
do it? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (12:18):
I think that's the that's the bigger part. And then
it's like, it's so many things. Let's move on to
the next topic because if we want to get the
guests on and not hold her, and it brings up
this next thing about this woman who was hit five brick. Now,
big thing for me around this whole month two months

(12:38):
a year, right, two months a year, eight.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
Weeks of fifty two weeks. It's fifty two weeks in
a year. Yeah, fifty two.

Speaker 4 (12:46):
Weeks for eight I'm on thirty percent work, right, So
I try my best, Like I literally go out of
my way to be like, I'm not watching that, I'm
not listening to it.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
I can't.

Speaker 4 (12:57):
There are so many leaders out here that jumping on
many different issues. You always dealing with stuff and I
don't know what's going on.

Speaker 1 (13:08):
I have no idea. So now we see I saw
that on your page, a woman was hitting the.

Speaker 4 (13:13):
Face and I learned about it, like I don't know,
I learned about it actually just kind of like over
the weekend, I learned.

Speaker 1 (13:21):
About it, and so I don't know what happened.

Speaker 4 (13:25):
But the next thing I know, I saw on your
page that people were saying that she did a skit
in a thing and now this is.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
Fake or something.

Speaker 4 (13:32):
So I don't know if she was in the hospital
with a fake Gallant helped me understand what pappened.

Speaker 3 (13:38):
The reality of the situation is a young lady was
obviously walking through the neighborhood coming from somewhere. I don't
know all the details of why she was in the neighborhood,
and according to her, you know, a guy asked her
for a number and she told him no, and based
on that he made the gud ray.

Speaker 2 (13:57):
He picked up a brick, put it to a face,
then hit her on the face with the break.

Speaker 3 (14:02):
What's most disturbing about the situation, it's not just the
fact that this one guy hit her with a break,
but there were multiple guys happened to be black guys.
I think they might have been in Haitian, but they
were black. Regardless of what they were around and they
watched this happen, you know. And then after it happened,
she goes on her video to show her face which

(14:23):
is sticking out like this, and she's saying that, you know,
a guy hit on the face and these black men
sit around it do nothing.

Speaker 2 (14:29):
And you hear in the background one of the guy,
who has you know, a.

Speaker 3 (14:33):
West Indian accent, saying, what we supposed to do, what
we're supposed to do with what you want us to do?
And that bothered me, you know, just the fact that
it happened, and then hearing these men say, what did
you want you to do? I would want you to
try to stop somebody, a woman from being hit.

Speaker 2 (14:51):
In the face with a break, right.

Speaker 3 (14:53):
I would think that would be your innate nature. I
would think that would be the common sense thing for
you to do. I think that would be the more
raw thing for.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
You to do.

Speaker 3 (15:03):
But his response in that situation, and just seeing some
of the responses online was just it was just terrible.
So then after, you know, I posted the video of
her and then posted you know, the video of her.
First the video was of her in the hospital explain,
and then they showed the video of the guys actually

(15:24):
saying this. So I post both of those videos just
just you know, just expressing my concern and my dismay
and disappointment. And the fact that men stood around and
watched another man hit a woman in the face of
the brick. He could have literally killed them, right, And
the fact that people think that having any level of
intervention in that is wrong or I don't know what's

(15:45):
going on. I don't need to know what's going wrong
on to know that a woman should be getting faced
in the brick. I don't have to know all the details.
She could have said the worst shit was, she could
have stole money from you. But I want to protect
both of y'all because I don't want you to kill
her and do the rest your life in jail, and
I don't want her to die. So me intervening is
not purely just because I'm protecting somebody. I know, because

(16:08):
it's the right thing to do. What happened is the
right thing to do.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
Is like them.

Speaker 3 (16:13):
If I see a little kid running and I see
somebody hitting him, the kid might have spit on you,
might have stole something for you.

Speaker 2 (16:19):
If I see somebody about to swing a bat at
a little kid.

Speaker 3 (16:21):
I'm an intervene. I'm gonna say, yo, don't hit the
kid with a bat. Let me talk to you.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
I don't have to be It's not about being tough.

Speaker 3 (16:28):
It's about just having any level of courage, just anything
in her something like how how do men sit around
and watching women get violently beat with a brick and
say that it's okay.

Speaker 2 (16:42):
So then after that, what starts to surface online is
this video.

Speaker 3 (16:47):
Right, there's a video of her hitting a white man,
saying something to him. I don't know exact word. She
says something to him, she smacks him, she walks off,
and then as she walks off, she twirks, Now, if
anybody watched this video more three times, you can tell
us a skit. It's not rocket science. The white man
is standing there, she smacks him. He goes like this,

(17:08):
She walks off, not even looking at him. She's not
fearing that he's gonna retaliate, because if you smack somebody
in the face in the street in an argument, you
know there's retaliation coming. You know, she smacked him, didn't
even look at the man. It was a light little tap.
She walks off like he ain't even there. He knows
that he doesn't look at her, he looks the other way.
She goes about five steps and starts twirking. The video

(17:31):
goes off right, So anybody who's paying attention to that, nos,
it's not real.

Speaker 2 (17:36):
But the.

Speaker 3 (17:38):
People who want to discredit this woman's claim, the people
who want to make it seem like it's justified that
she was hit with a brick, found this video. They
also found a video of her saying that how she
I think she made she's part of the LGBTQ. I
don't know exactly what position she is, but she was
saying that, you know, I'm black. Women control everything. They

(18:00):
they provide and they and protect right, get you a
black woman, because that's what I'm gonna do. You know,
black men ain't the ones out here really protecting us
this and that. And people were angry about that the
comments she made. But I say to myself, this situation
proves the comments she made it's not It wasn't based
off some shit that she just didn't know. When when

(18:21):
you watching your when you can when you can walk
in the street and get hit in the face of
the brick and a bunch of black men sit around
and do nothing, to ask you what they were supposed
to do. Then what her statement is one hundred percent truth,
and I can't be mad at her for feeling the
way that she felt.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
I can't even be mad at that statement.

Speaker 3 (18:37):
But even if you all mad at that statement, it
does not justify a weak assed man hitting a woman
in the face of the brick. So they try to
use all of those things to justify and I debunked
those things and came up with the fact that everybody
knows that that was a skit that came up right.
And then what happened after that. One of the guys
a quote unquote allegedly I don't know if he actually

(18:59):
was there when he went online saying that he was
there and that he's seeing what happen. And the lady
was looking for trouble, and she she she said some
things to the God that was rude, and she did
him the hit with a brick, so you know, she
got what she was looking for. And if he could
do it again, he still wouldn't protect And I thought

(19:21):
that was just the worst shit in the world.

Speaker 2 (19:23):
To me.

Speaker 3 (19:23):
I just didn't understand how a man can say because
words came out of a woman's mouth that you didn't
like that you was okay with her being hit in
the face with a brick.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
I just don't understand it.

Speaker 3 (19:35):
The mind state that we have, you know, especially and
people getting mad old you're trying to put it all
is on own.

Speaker 2 (19:41):
No, I take it on me too.

Speaker 3 (19:43):
It ain't about I'm not saying y'all black man, No,
it's me because if we do it something wrong as
a society, if we're not calling out individuals that do
shit like that, if we're not dealing with them on
our own, if we not have some level of standing
for manhood in our community, that certain shit is just
not okay, and then it's our fault because we empower
people like that when a man can walk like that,

(20:04):
hit the face of the lady in the face of
the break, and jump in his car and leave without
anybody saying or doing anything to stop him or deter
him or say, yeah, that shit ain't even right. Even
if you was, even if you were scared to death,
you not even saying, man, that's messed up. Man, come on,
don't hit that lady like that. I don't want no problems,
but come on, don't don't hit no lady with a break.
The fact that you couldn't even muster that up is

(20:24):
because you normalize it and you think it's okay.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
So if black men in our community think that, then
we are all feeling and.

Speaker 3 (20:33):
We owe black women in apology because the fact that
they don't feel safe. And I'm going through my comments
with so many people say, oh, she deserves that. You
see this video and the fact that people look for
that stupid ass video to try to justify it. And
it only took me ten seconds to realize it was scared.
And but that's when you when you actually are intentional
and you want to make sure that what you're saying

(20:55):
is correct, when you want when you when you want
to not discredit somebody, when you're not trying to look
forward Q to justify a woman getting beat in the face.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
You know.

Speaker 3 (21:03):
So it was, It's just a whole situation, and it
really disappointed me. Man I felt sorry for the woman.
You know, she was crying her face like she had
a big, big swollen face. Some people try to say
it's made up, it's just like your damn And you
know it brought me to Meghan, you know, it made me.
It reminded me of Megan, and that's that kind of

(21:26):
hurt me. It's like, damn, we're going through this shit again.
A woman was shot, one woman here with a break
and we still we make them, you know, the people.
That's the problem.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
We villainized. We villainized the victim. And that is crazy
to me. It is so crazy to me that you
know that. And the man said, yeah, he hit in
the face with the brick, but she was looking for trouble.
What is looking for trouble? Me? What exactly does that entail?
You said some words. As a man, we not strong
enough to hear a woman, a stranger that we don't know,

(21:57):
say some words we don't like and walk away, go
the other way, like whatever. Even if you yelled at her,
even if you was mad and you cursed.

Speaker 3 (22:04):
I can deal with cursing more than I could deal
with a man feeling that he is justified in hitting
the woman in the face of the brick for words
that she said come out of my mouth. So you know,
it's I've been it's really been a tough day for
me just ever since. I really because it was my DMS.
You know, we were at our fabulous sisters son's wedding

(22:25):
you know, so all those deals I didn't get. But
you know, when I actually got a chance to look
at it, it was like I couldn't believe that shit
actually happened. I felt so bad. I'm like, damn, how
how have we moved this far away from consciousness as man?
How we moved this far away from our natural order?

(22:48):
Our natural order is supposed to be provided and protect
How do we how do we just negate to protect parts?

Speaker 2 (22:55):
You know? And it's it's it's it hurts.

Speaker 1 (22:57):
I don't have anything to say.

Speaker 3 (22:59):
It is what it is.

Speaker 1 (23:00):
I already know what it is.

Speaker 4 (23:01):
When once I see I didn't know all of these details,
and once you stayed apart, once you said that she
made statements about the men not protecting women and all
of that.

Speaker 1 (23:10):
As soon as you said that, then I'm like, oh,
I see exactly what it is.

Speaker 4 (23:14):
So that's that's the reason why it's okay that she
was hitting the face with a brick for a lot
of people, because that that statement makes people feel for me.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
You didn't know about the statement when she got in
the face with the brook.

Speaker 4 (23:30):
Yeah, but you know, it's just we don't have time.
We don't have time now to unpack it more and
get deeper into it. But we've done it many times
on this show, and it just continues to show itself.
And so hopefully there are some who see it and understand,
and then there are some people who will never see it.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
They'll never understand. That's just it for me.

Speaker 4 (23:55):
This other conversation that we've been engaged in all weekend,
and it's very similar in that, you know, the conversation
around love and hip hop and Rika Menna calling Spice
a monkey.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
You want to mention my you should have died.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
Monkey.

Speaker 4 (24:26):
You know, I've already made a million statements about how
I feel.

Speaker 2 (24:32):
You know.

Speaker 4 (24:32):
One of the questions that was asked of me directly,
and it has been many other people. Shabaz asked me directly,
but other people have asked me, do I draw the
line at racism? And I wrote the whole thing about
you know about that, And I want to make sure
for the purpose of our conversation today.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
That we.

Speaker 4 (24:58):
State some things right, because I see so many narratives
popping up on the Internet. First of all, I want
to say that I have not said, nor do would
I ever say, that Erika Menna is racist, because we

(25:18):
know that the terminology.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
Racism or a person being racist.

Speaker 4 (25:25):
Means that they have some power to impact effect change
the lives of people of color or black folks or
other marginalized groups, and that they have the power to
oppress a group of individuals. And I don't believe that

(25:48):
the Latino community for the most part, While there are
some people within the Latino community who consider themselves to
be white adjacent, but they still are participating in white
supremacy and peddling racist narratives and comments.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
But it does not mean that I would say that
they are racist, So we have to be clear about that.

Speaker 4 (26:16):
I think that the comment that she made is a
racial slur, and that is different from saying somebody is racist.
I don't know her well enough to make that determination
and to say that about her.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
By the way, Also.

Speaker 4 (26:35):
What I read in the statement that was put out
by Love and Hip Hop is not that she was fired.
It looks like a suspension because they say in the
statement next season they could easily say that she is
no longer with the Love and Hip Hop franchise. They

(26:56):
could have said that. So I did not see it
saying that she was fired or her contract has been terminated,
and she would not be the only person on these
reality shows who have faced in the past suspensions. Even Portia,
who is our sister, was suspended for fighting on house Yes,

(27:21):
she's on Housewives of Atlanta.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
So people do get suspended.

Speaker 4 (27:25):
There are they have periods where there's breaks or whatever
as different issues are being worked through.

Speaker 1 (27:32):
So that's the other thing.

Speaker 4 (27:33):
The third thing, this is just my pieces, right, is
that I have not said, nor would I have probably
ever been advocating.

Speaker 1 (27:43):
For Rika Minna to be canceled.

Speaker 4 (27:48):
Right.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
What I have been talking about is that there must
be an.

Speaker 4 (27:52):
Understanding of the use of racial slurs and how those
things should never be on the table.

Speaker 1 (28:02):
People say, well, her child shouldn't. That's fine.

Speaker 4 (28:05):
You can argue all day that the insults of saying
something about a person's child, the insult of talking about
people dirty, stink, funky, whatever you want to say, those
are insults. They shouldn't be happening. It's out of line.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
It's all of that.

Speaker 4 (28:23):
But racial slurs absolutely go into a different area. If
you are a child and you're in the school and
you always playing around and moving around and doing whatever,
and you constantly getting in trouble because you won't sit still.
That's one thing, and that in and of itself might

(28:45):
have you going to the principal's office.

Speaker 1 (28:48):
There may be issues, but if you get.

Speaker 4 (28:50):
Caught cheating on a test, that raises the level, and
now there's such thing as suspension and or even being
expelled from this school. So people need to stop acting
like there are not levels to life. Can you can
maybe take a piece of candy from the store and

(29:10):
get in trouble for it, Maybe you go down to
the courthouse because you get caught for stealing. But if
you rob a bank, your ass is gonna probably get
a felony conviction and serve lots of time. There's levels
to everything in life. So you could say that the
stealing of the candy in the store was wrong, and
it might get you a little misdemeanor, or you might

(29:32):
go downtown and the judge might say, slap on the wrist,
don't ever do it again. But if you get caught
doing a bank heist, there's a whole different set of
consequences associated with that.

Speaker 2 (29:44):
Consequences increase immensely absolutely.

Speaker 4 (29:49):
And so therefore folks need to stop playing the we
don't oh, you know, it's all the same.

Speaker 1 (29:56):
It is not all the same. And what is sad.
What is sad to me is that the conversation around.

Speaker 4 (30:05):
First of all, what is very noticeable of black people
who are speaking on this topic is the lack of
knowledge that people have about our history.

Speaker 1 (30:17):
You can see it.

Speaker 4 (30:18):
You can see it in the responses from different people
in different areas, Folks who are supposed to be, you know,
people who are entertainers or people who have public profiles.
You can hear literally their lack of understanding of our
history just based upon the ignorance of what they are
even saying. Right, Because and I'm going to finish this

(30:41):
here because we have to go and come back and
complete these conversations a little bit later.

Speaker 1 (30:48):
But I would say this.

Speaker 4 (30:51):
One of the things that I appreciate when we talk
about going to that Palestinian wedding, right, Linda's son had
an incredible, incredible wedding, and which we do too. So
I'm not trying to say black folks don't we have history.
We got culture, we got all of that. But it
was a beautiful wedding. And I would actually drop this

(31:13):
in as my thought of the day today, watching the
family come together in the way in which they did
for that Palestinian wedding. One of the things that I
appreciate is that they passed down their culture and their

(31:40):
history from generation to generation.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
Right.

Speaker 4 (31:45):
I think about some of our brothers and sisters in
the African community, Africans who are either here in the
US now or when we went to Africa, and we know,
we saw how you could go into any facility, you
could be walking around the streets, and the Africans can

(32:07):
tell you the story down to the children of their history,
what has happened to them, what took place there in Africa.
Same thing with the Haitian community. When I was in Haiti,
I was talking to young kids ten and twelve years
old while we were out on tours, just a part

(32:28):
of their education.

Speaker 1 (32:29):
And I get it. I get it, my son, that
a part of the.

Speaker 4 (32:37):
Effects of white supremacy and enslavement and all of that
is that they cut us off of my history.

Speaker 1 (32:43):
And that's why they are.

Speaker 4 (32:44):
Trying to ban it in schools even still today, because
they don't want us to know.

Speaker 1 (32:50):
Because if we understood our history, if we truly.

Speaker 4 (32:54):
Understood all that has happened to us where we are
today is it doesn't mean we have to live and
soak in it. But understanding it means that we will
never be okay with somebody using a racial slur against us.
Will never be okay with it, because I promise you

(33:15):
you cannot sit on a show and get into an
argument with a Jewish individual and then say, oh, you kite.
You can't do that, because once you do whatever else
y'all was dealing with, the level has now kicked up.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
And the difference between other communities and our community is that,
for the most part, for the most part, they.

Speaker 4 (33:45):
Are going to have a group of individuals within their
community that will organize.

Speaker 1 (33:52):
Against you.

Speaker 4 (33:55):
And the rest the others probably won't say much unless
they think and injustice is truly being done.

Speaker 1 (34:03):
So we have we have been so disconnected from who
we are.

Speaker 4 (34:10):
We've been so we've been taught to actually ignore that
as a form of achievement and success, so much so
that we lend ourselves to the negative and disrespectful narratives
about us. And it is very, very, very dangerous. We
come back, we can talk about I mean, you should

(34:31):
definitely respond now, but we come back, we should talk
about the whole love and hip hop brand, because that
has been a big topic of conversation, and I have
much to say about that well, based on.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
What you said.

Speaker 3 (34:43):
You know, I think you hit everything on the head.
You know, I think I went online and I just
wanted to make it clear that calling a black person
a monkey is definitely a racial slurt.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
It's not okay. You know, it's historic.

Speaker 3 (34:58):
You know, there's things and it's even historic in our
communities as of now, it doesn't even it doesn't even
all the way go back to you know, slavery in
white supremacy. It dates in our communities now. It's it's
between blacks and Hispanics. Those are those are one of
the main racial slurs used by Hispanics who who when

(35:21):
they're angry with you, Latin I apologize. It is one
of the main slurs that I personally encountered, those slurs,
and and those are things that is known within our communities.
You know, we know that we know blacks and Hispanics
know Latinos. Blacks and Latinos know what the other words

(35:44):
the words that you don't use, you know, like they say, oh,
you let the people use nigga this, and I get it.
But in our communities, since we grew up so comfortably.
The fact that blacks utilize that as a determinent, then
man utilize it in the thea you know, daily ebonics
every day and they and the best friends are Latinos

(36:06):
and naturally comes out we call each other, un my nigga,
that's my nigga.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
We utilize that.

Speaker 3 (36:10):
Maybe it's not the right thing, but we have identified
that this is a comfortable space for us in our communities.
There are a lot of people who don't think is
it and they and they have the right to believe that.
But absolutely nowhere in our community is it okay for
a Latino to call a black person a monkey. I've
seen whole wars started, family wars started. My mother went

(36:33):
down and with the lady's ass in the store and
a bodega for calling me and my sister monkey.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
I didn't even know what the word monkey was in Spanish.
I learned it because they called They said it to
me a few times.

Speaker 3 (36:45):
I used to go there and they used to laugh
at us, to say little monomono, and I was like,
what the fuck does that mean?

Speaker 2 (36:50):
You know?

Speaker 3 (36:51):
And somebody told me and I went to my mother
that they called me a monkey, and then it became
a little thing. Whenever it would be like a problem
somebody had said, under they they're voice, they're screaming, so
we know there's.

Speaker 4 (37:04):
An ast you understand, And I just want to insert
in that what I hear you saying is that which
you know Again, we can argue that, oh you don't
want to do the the use of the word the worst.
The use of the word nigga is problematic for xby
Z reason. But the thing is the word nigga when

(37:25):
saying it, because they try to say, well, fat Joe
says it, and this and that and the third and
you know whatever, and he's an artist and he's Latino,
and that was a whole big topic.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
That term can be used, or has been used, and
is often.

Speaker 4 (37:39):
Used while people are laughing and joking and talking and
being together and like you said, in some ways endearment.

Speaker 1 (37:45):
Although I don't.

Speaker 4 (37:46):
Agree with that terminology because I try to stay away
from using that term to talk about us as well.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
But people are laughing.

Speaker 4 (37:55):
Never ever, in the history of ever, when you, as
a person said monkey in a good way, it's never
been done.

Speaker 2 (38:04):
Is used in discourse.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
It's derogatory exactly.

Speaker 3 (38:09):
It's used during negative discourse to be derogatory. It's never
a term of endearment, you know, So we understand that.
So when people try to, you know, conflate the two things,
it doesn't add up, you know. And furthermore, you know,
the disappointment that I have in just our people, you know,
I was, I was listening to Jess hilarious and her

(38:32):
actually trying to justify it, and the statement that she
made was, you know, I don't think a recommended is racist.
Nobody says she was racist, but we said she used
a racial slur. And she said, well, if she called
Spice a monkey, maybe she looks like a monkey to her.
And I thought that coming from another black woman, dark

(38:54):
skinned black woman who I've known has heard things about
her skin color and have probably been called types of names,
I thought that was so crazy to me that you've
embraced a level of racist connotation and you've taken on that,
and you think we should all take on it because

(39:14):
you've embraced it, that you've you've embraced the level of
actually what it's called self hate, that you push it
on to somebody else, and that shit is me And
it's so hard for us because we can't even stay
on cold. There will never be white people that come
out and justify you calling them a name that's derogatory.
Like you said, There'll never be Jewish people that come

(39:35):
out and justify a slur that's used against them and anybody.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
They just not against anybody else. They'll mind the business.

Speaker 3 (39:42):
They might talk to you as a friend and say, yeah,
I understand what you're saying, but you know that you
probably shouldn't have used that terminology.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
And I love you.

Speaker 3 (39:49):
You know, we don't even have the wherewithal to understand
that that's what we're on. Ever, commen, it could be
a close friend. If she was my close friend, I'm
an pull it to the side of sad.

Speaker 2 (39:57):
Baby.

Speaker 3 (39:57):
I know you probably was mad, but you can't cano
black women, no monkey, not no dogskin black women that.

Speaker 2 (40:03):
We that ain't gonna work out. You just it just
don't work out.

Speaker 4 (40:06):
Well, that did happen, and that did happen. That did
That's what I'm saying that I'm talking about.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
I'm saying just hilarious. I'm not saying I don't know
if just hilarious did. I know? We we we we
under the exactly we're under the.

Speaker 3 (40:20):
Understanding that there were other people who came to her
and in that in that fashion like, yo, I love
you and everything, but you there's a history of that.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
You can't use that and whatever.

Speaker 3 (40:31):
Her response was actually led to where we are now.
What I'm saying is the fact that we are allowing
people to make us feel like racial slurs and disrespect
to us. It's something that we should just take and
just move on from, and we're embracing it. It's self
hate to me, and it really I would say this,

(40:53):
I don't know that.

Speaker 4 (40:55):
I guess when I hear you using the word embrace
and I understand what you're saying, I don't I think
that Jess would push back and say I'm not embracing anything.
I'm just saying that it's not as serious as people
are making it.

Speaker 3 (41:11):
And that if you confinduf as serious that a whole
culture finds serious, that means you in some way not a.

Speaker 4 (41:20):
Whole See, that's the thing we have to be careful
about absolute Because a whole culture doesn't.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
Find it means the majority of the culture.

Speaker 3 (41:27):
Right, Okay, major of the culture didn't do it, then
we wouldn't be here in this situation.

Speaker 1 (41:33):
It was saying, and I don't. I don't disagree. Let
me just finish my point so we can get into
our guests.

Speaker 4 (41:40):
What I'm saying is, I don't think that Jess probably
feels like she's embracing it.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
I think that what she's trying to.

Speaker 4 (41:47):
Say is that people like she she she doesn't believe
that this young lady is racist, and therefore because of.

Speaker 1 (41:55):
That, we shouldn't be making it this big thing. It
might just be a statement that she made that's on
the fly. Here's what I want to say about that.

Speaker 4 (42:05):
That's our problem is that too much shit just happens
on the fly with us. We're too okay with too
much of the things that go on, and as a result,
and as a result, we're being murdered, not just by
the police, but by our own people within our communities,

(42:28):
Domestic violences out of control.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
We some of us can't get opportunities, jobs, bank loans.

Speaker 4 (42:35):
We're being mistreated because when we start saying things like, well,
I don't you know, I don't think that that's serious,
and maybe this and that and the third I'm not
just talking about Jesse, talking about all these people in general.
Folks don't think we take ourselves seriously that's.

Speaker 2 (42:50):
What I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (42:51):
Normal we're normalizing and we are we are okay, and
that ain't okay.

Speaker 1 (42:56):
Yeah, so let's pause there and bring our guests in.

Speaker 4 (43:00):
And we kept saying over and over again that we
were going to invite the great Megan Kunniff to come
and be a part of our show, and we and
and every time new things happened, so we said, we
gotta wait, we gotta wait, we gotta wait, because we

(43:20):
wanted to really have a good, deep, expansive conversation with
you about.

Speaker 1 (43:27):
All the things. And I think the main thing for
us is that we're like, Okay, she's a journalist that we.

Speaker 4 (43:34):
Didn't know until now, but there must be more to
her than just Tory Lanez and Meg the Stallion, and
so absolutely we wanted to bring you on to talk
about that today.

Speaker 1 (43:45):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 4 (43:46):
Meghan cunith is joining Street Politicians today and we are
so appreciative of having you as our guests.

Speaker 5 (43:53):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
So how are you today, Megan?

Speaker 5 (43:57):
I'm doing good.

Speaker 6 (43:57):
It's you know, it's it's Tuesday after Labor Day weekend,
and that seems to represent like a change, right, Like
summer is going to be ending soon at kids are
going back to school, like it's time to like focus
and work. But I'm kind of at the point where
I'm ending this big coverage that I did, and I'm like,
I want to stop working so much, you know, I
want to kind of kind.

Speaker 5 (44:18):
Of take it easy.

Speaker 2 (44:19):
I need to.

Speaker 5 (44:19):
I need to get out more and reclaim my summer.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
That's what happened. I saw you on a bike somewhere
like yesterday. Yes, you were biking.

Speaker 5 (44:31):
Yes, got it.

Speaker 6 (44:31):
Got to get back into that during the pandemic. When
the pandemic hit, I lost my job at the Daily Journal.
They cut like half the staff, and I was doing
the unemployment pandemic thing, and I went on a bunch
of road trips to national parks.

Speaker 5 (44:47):
Got really into that, and you know, with that, you
get in pretty good shape. And I was doing big hikes.

Speaker 6 (44:53):
I went to Yosemite and did Cloud's Rest with the
idea to eventually do Half Dome, which is like the
big hike in your And then I got a job
at law dot Com and then I got to move
to law and crime and it was like celebrity trial news,
you know, get into the la coverage scene, and I'm
like Okay, I've kind of lost track of my my
hiking plans. I haven't even been able to play some

(45:15):
trails like I wanted to.

Speaker 4 (45:17):
Yeah, I'm sure you are not hiking and enjoying life
as you once were because what you have decided to
dedicate yourself to it is cumbersome.

Speaker 1 (45:29):
It is tiring.

Speaker 4 (45:31):
It's twenty four hours a day because something can happen
the middle of the night, early in the morning, and
you know, people start relying on you for information, and so,
you know, I just want to thank you so much
for what you've been doing. I really truly think that
you are a rock star in terms of how you've
been juggling this this newfound celebrity.

Speaker 1 (45:52):
That you have. You may not want to accept that,
but you do. So, my son, you go ahead and
kick it off.

Speaker 2 (45:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (45:58):
So I'm just interested to know how did you get
into journalism, Like, way did it start me?

Speaker 6 (46:05):
You know, it's always been an interest of mine, and
I credit my family. My dad was a criminal defense attorney.
Well he was a small town attorney in Oregon, so
he did criminal defense but also divorce, civil cases. He
kind of a broad range of things, and he was
really interested in politics, and journalism, and he died in
two thousand and three. But during high school, I mean

(46:25):
we would have conversations about political events, current events. He
was really interested in the OJ Simpson trial, and he
was skeptical of the police. He always had, I mean,
he was a criminal defense attorney, so he was always
giving us advice on you know, never let them search
your car, that kind of thing.

Speaker 5 (46:41):
I mean, those are just things that we were kind.

Speaker 6 (46:43):
Of taught early on, Like he would he got a
seat belt ticket once, and he fought it all the
way that he could. I just remember a really intense,
passionate dinner discussion about Dad getting this seat belt ticket,
and of course he wasn't wearing a seat belt, but
he was convinced that there was no way the cop
could have actually seen that he wasn't wearing a seat
belt because of the color of the seat in the

(47:04):
car and the color of the seat belt. So he
knew that this cop was just making this up and
he was going to challenge it. I don't remember what
happened with that, but it was, like, you know, four
or five years old. Those are like my searing memories.

Speaker 4 (47:15):
Obviously, Tory Lanes his case is not the first case
you covered, but it's when we encounter you and so
can you talk about some of the other things that
you've done?

Speaker 1 (47:26):
You said long crime at what is it?

Speaker 2 (47:29):
What was it?

Speaker 5 (47:31):
Low dot com?

Speaker 1 (47:31):
Law dot com? Yeah, talk about the other cases that
you've covered.

Speaker 6 (47:36):
Yeah, I mean I started working at the high school
paper and then always kind of knew I wanted to
do journalism, So was at the college paper University of Oregon,
Go Ducks, and then went up to Spokane, Washington and
worked at the Spokesman Review and Boise, Idaho, covering the
legislature for a year doing an internship with their Idaho
legislature reporter. Then went up to Cordelaine, Idaho. And Spokane,

(47:59):
Washington was when I started covering courts more because I
was the night cops reporter and then I moved to
the day side cops shift, and I kind of realized
that the courthouse was where you found out more information
about the people that you wrote about who got arrested,
Like you could go to the courthouse and there would
be you know, Appidavid's and stuff there explaining the cases.
So I got into it through that and then moved

(48:20):
to California in twenty thirteen to work at the Orange
County Register. It was when they were doing this kind
of pie in the sky expansion, like we're going to
save newspapers, and they had a couple of guys by
the paper and want to know, rekindle newspapers, and it
kind of turned out to be kind of a scam involved,
and they were doing stuff with the retirement fund and everything.

Speaker 5 (48:39):
There was a big lawsuit.

Speaker 6 (48:40):
But for a couple of years there was like this
renaissance time at the Orange County Register where they were
just hiring reporters to do really good work. And I
was actually hired to cover, if you can believe it,
the city of San Juan Capistrano. If you've heard of that,
the swallows of San Juan Capistrano about as small town
California as you can think. I mean, in a town America,

(49:01):
San Juan wouldn't count as a small town because it's
thirty five thousand people and it's in South Orange County.
But they've got the city Council, the Planning Commission, and
the Orange County Register had a weekly called Capistrano Valley News.
So my job was to fill the Capistrano Valley News
and It was my first experience in southern California.

Speaker 5 (49:19):
I kind of went into it having watched those episodes
of Weeds.

Speaker 6 (49:23):
You guys remember that show, Yeah, and the politics with
the city council on that, and then also parks and
rec There was a very big parks and rec vibe
to it, but it was very small town that the
town had a lot of infighting about development and traffic.
But for like a year and a half I covered
that stuff. But they also had a big lawsuit over
water rates. They had done pie in the sky water

(49:45):
rates and were getting sued by some residents who, of
course they'd just written off as gad flies, but actually
the residents were like retired professionals who knew what they
were talking about, and they ended up screwing up water
rates for the entire state. In the middle of a
out like the governor actually issued a statement about this
appellate court ruling that had come against San Juan for

(50:06):
their water rates, and it was kind of my first
introduction to courts in southern California. So I went from
the Register to the Daily Journal, and the La Daily
Journal was really where I feel like I became like
a legal affairs reporter covering all sorts of cases and
getting to know all sorts of lawyers and judges, because
the Daily Journal is like a clubby little newspaper for
lawyers in the judiciary. It was it's been around since

(50:30):
like the late over a century. It was like the
Daily Court Journal, but it was bought by Charles Munger
back in the eighties and he kind of wanted it
to be like a gift for the legal community. So
it's basically just profiles of judges, really in house news
on litigation and stuff, but it's very civil based. They've

(50:50):
got maybe when I was there, we maybe had ten
reporters and one of them covers criminal justice and all
the others the cious types of civil cases. So that's
where I where I really got to know the system
really well and felt like I was a court reporter,
and I feel like I applied that stuff to the lane.
Stuff like we didn't cover celebrity cases so much at

(51:10):
the Daily Journal, but you just learned how the court
system so it works so much. I wanted to get
out of like the silo of Paywald legal affairs journalism
like almlaw dot com. Where I went after that is
very Paywald like lawyers, only they're writing for lawyers. They
don't they're not writing for the mainstream at all.

Speaker 5 (51:28):
So I wanted to find a way to.

Speaker 6 (51:29):
Like marry the two, Like how can you take what
you learned covering legal affairs journalism in the siloed Paywald
area and move it to social media, and like law
on Crime was a good way to kind of transition
on that.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
So was this like your first high profile case that
you covered?

Speaker 6 (51:48):
It was definitely the most high profile case that i'd covered.
I'd gotten the first time I ever went on TV
was actually Nancy Grace. I think she's still around, but
does anyone remember her when she had the fill in show?

Speaker 5 (51:59):
Yeah? Really yeah, yeah, really.

Speaker 6 (52:03):
Conservative right, yes, like you know, going against you know,
they're all guilty kind of thing. But there was a
babysitter in Post Falls, Idaho who'd been arrested for murder
involving a kid that she was babysitting. So I had
written about that for The Swolkes In Review and went
on TV for that. So I'd had a little bit
of experience and doing some oxygen shows like what was

(52:28):
the name of the show, A couple of murder cases
they spotlighted when I was doing there, but Lane's was
by far the most high profile case because before it
was probably Michael Evan Naughty. Do you guys remember him,
the lawyer first Stormy Daniels, who was really twenty eighteen.
He sued Trump and there was actually serious talk of
him being a presidential candidate for a couple of weeks,

(52:49):
which is kind of crazy. But I covered all his
financial fraud cases in California for a year and a
half and that was the most high profile that I'd gotten.
I'd got a lot of attention, and he was giving
me a lot of flak online and he has this
like dedicated group of like five Evannaughty cultists on Twitter,
packing me and going. So it was I remember when

(53:11):
I was telling somebody about all the flack that I
was getting on from the Tory Lane stuff. So somebody
was like, oh, it sounds exactly like Evannaughty, and I
was like, well, no, it's actually way bigger, and they're like, no, it's.

Speaker 5 (53:21):
It's actually just like EVANAUGHTI.

Speaker 6 (53:22):
And it kind of is.

Speaker 4 (53:23):
But it was like, you know that a lot of
people are really trolls, and they've made up several pages
so they could go and talk from different pages and
try to discredit you. So and we found that out.
And my son likes to argue with people online who
are who I look at it like. Sometimes I'll start
like getting ready to make a comment too, and then

(53:45):
I click it and the person has like two followers,
and I'm like, okay, what.

Speaker 5 (53:49):
Yeah, and then.

Speaker 6 (53:51):
Exactly yeah, I did say in a in a live
I did a while back. I was like, Okay, I
need to start writing down these fake names that they're
coming out with. There's one Maxwell Troy the other the
other day. I was like, Okay, that's a good one,
good old Maxwell Troy. When he's not passionately defending Tory
Lanes in the comments on a YouTube channel, he's you know,

(54:12):
running your local high school computer science club or something.

Speaker 4 (54:16):
Exactly right, he's like in the basement of a building.
So let me see what was the how do you
pick the cases?

Speaker 1 (54:24):
Now, maybe you didn't have.

Speaker 4 (54:26):
I get that in the previous spaces it was sort
of a signed and or something that you were really
interested in, and so you kind of jumped into it.

Speaker 1 (54:34):
How did you.

Speaker 4 (54:34):
Decide, like, Tory Lanes, this is the case. I'm going
for it because you did basically most of this independent.

Speaker 6 (54:40):
Right, Yeah, yeah, well it was I was with on
Crime when the trial started, and they're really into celebrity news.
So I was there covering at that courthouse, covering Harvey Weinstein,
the movie producers Rape Troll and Danny Masterson, the That
seventies show actor Stephen Hyde. They were having two cases
at the same time, so I was already there, and
then I'd heard from the Law and Crime Network people

(55:02):
that there was interest in the Tory Lanez case, so
I was like, well, if I'm already here, I might
as well cover it. And then I mean, at the
time of I was a couple of months off from
covering Cardi B's trial in Santa Anna. She was actually
sued by somebody over the album art to Gangsta Bitch
Music Vie, and she won, but she was in court

(55:23):
for a few days and actually testified. So I was like, Okay,
how many people in their life get to say that
they saw testimony from the two women responsible for the
wop song within like two months of each other, in
two separate courthouses and two unrelated trials, Like I've got
to at least be there for Megan testimony.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
Right.

Speaker 5 (55:41):
But then when I stepped into.

Speaker 6 (55:43):
It, I just realized, I mean, it's such a more
serious case to even bring it up in the same
breath is that Cardi B lawsuit is? I mean, the
Cardi B lawsuit was kind of silly, but you can't
say that about the Tory Lanez case. Was a pretty
serious case. And I just realized how much attention there
was to it, and I'm like, wow, I think people
wanted to want to cover this case. I should keep
covering it.

Speaker 3 (56:04):
After you cover this case, right, I seen a lot
of pushback you again, just a lot of pushback. And
you I found out about you, you know, after Tamika
had actually went to the court one time and she
was telling me some of the things that she's seen
inside the court.

Speaker 1 (56:21):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 3 (56:22):
And when I found you on Twitter, you were saying
pretty much the same things that she had verbatim seen
and other people that I knew were in the court.
So I said, this person seems like they actually are
non biased and just reporting the facts of the case.

Speaker 5 (56:40):
Right, Yeah, I mean I try to be.

Speaker 3 (56:43):
So what I want to know is what was that
process like as you posted and you were getting responses back,
was it was most of them positive or were you
immediately getting the delays people that's like you're not you're biased.

Speaker 6 (56:58):
But for the most party, it was really positive, especially
in the very beginning. I think it was the trial
started on Monday, I think, and it was like Wednesday
when I would look at my phone and be like, wow,
this is like the most responses that I've ever gotten
on Twitter, and it was just kind of getting blown up.
But I remember I saw a message from some random person.
It was a reply that just said thank you for this,
this non bias and that this is we're spelled ds,

(57:21):
and I was just like, I mean, it was just new,
like like I don't usually get those kind of replies
or it's usually like lawyers or something replying to my tweets.

Speaker 5 (57:29):
So I mean, I thought it was cool.

Speaker 6 (57:30):
I was like, this is awesome, like people are appreciating
the coverage and just that what he said, like thank
you for this, this is non bias. It's like what
bigger compliment could you give a reporter who's trying to
do that, you know, It's like, oh, I mean it
was it was heartening and it was like inspiring to
like keep going. So I did see once a tweet
that said, it's unfortunate that a white lady with a

(57:53):
bob is our only source of reliable information.

Speaker 5 (57:55):
And what was kind of like one of my friends
was like, are they making front of your hair. I'm like, no,
I think I need to embrace it. But it kind
of underscored.

Speaker 6 (58:03):
It's like it's a really sensitive issue and the point
that they made wasn't any thing to kind of diss me.
It was just a comment on the state of journalism
and black representation in journalism that I saw. It just
kind of it just kind of struck me. I'm like,
the issues in this are like so heavy for society.
It's like way bigger than anything, Like a thieving lawyer

(58:24):
defrauding his clients is serious, but just like the way
media deals with violence against women and violence against black women,
Like I just realized it was like all there. And
then I remember I was using Instagram a little bit,
but not so much. It was more of a personal page.
But it's not like it was locked down, and I'd
gotten a comment on like a photo like months and

(58:46):
months back of bookcases behind there, and somebody would have
had to scroll through a few pictures to see these books.
But the comment was they added Megan the Stallion and
they said, she has books about what they did to
your people, but you can't. And it was some kind
of insult to Megan or some kind of diss to
Megan after that. But the first part where they're like,

(59:09):
she has books about what they did to your people,
and I'm like, they're talking about the two books that
I had Uncle Tom's cabin and then we are not afraid,
I mean slavery and the civil rights movement, And I
just remember being like struck that like how personal it
was for people that somebody would like take the time
to do that and like look through the photos. And

(59:30):
I didn't feel like attacked by it or anything. It
was just like, I mean, I'm a journalist and you're
kind of a public figure when you're doing that, so
I mean, I shouldn't be bothered that somebody looked through
like public photos that I had, but it just like
underscored like how important this was for people and how
like personal it was for people, Like other cases that
I cover would not warrant that kind of response. And
I also just remember being kind of proud that I

(59:51):
had those books and being like this is a really
sensitive issue. But if I just keep doing what I
do and like, I don't have anything to worry about, Like,
because you always hear those things about somebody getting a
lot of attention, and then somebody goes back and finds
some tweets from like ten years ago where they're saying
awful stuff and they're only they're like, oh, well that

(01:00:12):
was ten years ago.

Speaker 5 (01:00:12):
It's like, well, why were you ever saying that?

Speaker 6 (01:00:14):
You know, But I just knew that I didn't have
anything like that, So I'm like, I should be good
if I just keep doing what I'm doing. And but
it was it was a little overwhelming to get all
the responses all the time and be like do I
respond or do I not? But fortunately the trial, fortunately
the trial is just so busy that I could just
focus on that and.

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
Focus on that.

Speaker 4 (01:00:34):
Well, you know what, So I was going to bring
this up, but you started. Actually you mentioned it first.
In terms of the racial dynamics of you being a
white woman covering this case and becoming a very important
source of information, I think I have to say that, uh,
what's his name? Dennis Byron also sort of became an

(01:00:57):
important source, especially as a black man covering the case.
And I see that the two of you now share
conversations and online things, services and whatnot, which is good.
I you know, I appreciate Dennis, although he and I
don't always agree, which I'm sure that's just that's just
a part of life. But when you mentioned this, DS

(01:01:20):
very clear that for the most part, the person who
said that is more than likely a younger person in general,
and maybe maybe an African American because it has become
a part of our lexicon, right, especially for younger people.

Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
Then when someone says the black.

Speaker 4 (01:01:39):
Woman with the bob, I mean the white woman with
the bob, absolutely as a black woman. I can tell
you that I have definitely noticed that Megan kuonif is
the is the white woman with the bob? Right, like
we just that's something, So that more than likely was
a black woman who noticed it. And then the person

(01:02:01):
who is saying they know the history, I can imagine
that the quote was probably something like, she has books
about your people's history, and you're allowing this black man
to be crucified knowing that he didn't do the thing
and this and that, so more than likely that was
probably a black man. And I'm stereotype in here or
type casting if you will. But it's just based upon

(01:02:24):
what I know being online and also dealing with black
people all my life.

Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
Yeah, question for you is, did you why.

Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
Were you reading those books?

Speaker 4 (01:02:35):
Do you have a relationship or are you involved in
the black community, Like what tell me about your experience
in terms of dealing with black folks and if not, much,
did you learn a lot about us, about the way
we communicate, about the things that really truly divide our
community as you were covering this case.

Speaker 6 (01:02:57):
Yeah, I mean the truth is I don't have much experience.
I mean, if you just look where I grew up
in Cravallis, Oregon and then up in Spokane, Washington. I mean,
I remember I was talking to Nick the other night,
who does the YouTube channel NIEK at Night. I'm like, look,
there were two black kids in my entire elementary school
when I was growing up. And well, I mean people
in Cravallis, Oregon are very liberal, like they're anti racism.

(01:03:21):
I mean, if you go to Cravallis, there's Black Lives
Matters signs in people's windows, that kind of thing. But
it's it's that white liberalism that I'm sure has been discussed,
you know, all over that you see that that doesn't
mean that there isn't like racism there just from the
fact that there just aren't many black people there growing up.
So in my position as as a journalist, I've never

(01:03:43):
really gotten like too involved in like activist movements, but
especially when the Black Lives Matter protests started and the
George Floyd murder protest started, because one perspective I think
I can bring to that is somebody who can be like, oh, yeah,
if you see the way the cops just treat you know, anyone,
if you add racism into that, it gets it must

(01:04:05):
just it's.

Speaker 5 (01:04:05):
Horrible, you know.

Speaker 6 (01:04:06):
I Mean, I have no doubt that they the cops
are out of control in shootings and that they do
target black people like just for and that something needs
to be done about it. But as a reporter, I
mean getting involved in the in the movement and that
kind of thing, you're kind of not supposed.

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
To do that.

Speaker 6 (01:04:22):
But as a journalist, I feel like I can bring
light to the situations by covering civil rights movement or
covering civil rights trials against cops, which I've done a lot,
Like I've seen a lot of cops testify in court,
and I feel like if I can just tell people
what I see through that that'll help. But then when
the George Floyd thing started, I was actually doing that

(01:04:45):
the pandemic road trip to National Park. So I was
actually up in Salt Lake City because I was going
to go up to the Yellowstone and Grant Teton, and
they were having protests up there, I mean Salt Lake City,
and of course the cops just went crazy. Currently one
person tipped over a cop car, so they just shut
down the entire city, like put a whole perimeter around

(01:05:06):
the downtown or something. And it was ridiculous because when
you see the way the people were, I mean, people
have every right to protest this, and when you see
that video, it's like, yeah, I think people are going
to be out in the streets like protesting this. Of
course they were. They were protesting all over the country,
and the cops line up in this big military row
and they're just like bringing it. I mean, they're just

(01:05:26):
they're they're totally they're just instigating shit and starting shit
and I see it all the time and it pisses
me off. So when you add race and just the
institutional racism and the disadvantages that just are kind of
caked into society.

Speaker 5 (01:05:41):
Through that.

Speaker 6 (01:05:42):
You add that with the police, it's like god, what,
you know, the horror of that. But so I was
trying to think of, like what can I do, like
as just a white lady with a bob, you know, Like,
I mean, there's not I mean, I live in South
Orange County.

Speaker 5 (01:05:58):
You know, I work a lot. You know, I go out,
I don't. I mean I remember I went to visit
a friend in Washington, d C.

Speaker 6 (01:06:07):
And it was like it felt like a lot more
diversity than I'm used to, which is just kind of
a nice thing to do to just go out and
see diversity.

Speaker 5 (01:06:13):
But one thing I wanted to do was read more books.

Speaker 6 (01:06:16):
And that's what I was reading about, Like what can
white people do to try to like help things and
make more of a difference other than just you know,
protesting and being publicly against this stuff. And that's read
more books about the black experience. So as somebody who
I haven't been able to read that much this year
because of all the work, all the work that I've
been doing, but I have tried to read more black

(01:06:38):
authors like Jesmine Ward Coulson, Whitehead, is a big one,
and it's not like it's not like a chore to
do this.

Speaker 5 (01:06:44):
I mean, Coulson Whitehead is like one of the bests
out there today.

Speaker 6 (01:06:48):
So but I kind of make a point of trying
to read books about stuff that I wouldn't normally know
about or be exposed to, just and.

Speaker 5 (01:06:55):
I think that's important for everybody to do to kind
of learn about that. But I mean, I don't know if.

Speaker 4 (01:07:01):
That's ah, I have the other question and then because
I know you have to go in a few moments,
so I just want to get back to that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:10):
And in my son you jump in about did you.

Speaker 4 (01:07:13):
Learn a lot about what divides our community, like you know,
and some of the detentionions you know that came up
around this case.

Speaker 5 (01:07:22):
Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Speaker 6 (01:07:23):
It just seems like there's huge issues with just representation
in media and how stuff is portrayed in like mainstream media,
and then just.

Speaker 5 (01:07:33):
Not the problems with the criminal.

Speaker 6 (01:07:35):
Justice system kind of inherently distrusting the criminal justice system
in the way it deals with black men, but then
also having the problem of black women traditionally not being
trusted and not being believed in public society. So it
was like this this interesting mesh of those two issues
and how skepticism was kind of born through both those things. No,

(01:07:58):
I mean, I feel like I was talking to some
people about, you know, what are some possible book possibilities
for this that's not just focused on the Megan thee
Stallion issue in the harassment, but just the whole issue
of like online stand culture and celebrity obsession and how
that is like coming into the criminal justice system, Like
how do you deal with that? There's so many issues there,

(01:08:20):
Like what I mean, are there are there other issues
that I'm that I'm missing or do you think I
do you think I No?

Speaker 4 (01:08:26):
I think I mean, my son, you can speak to it.
I think you're right that that one of the biggest
challenge here is that even people.

Speaker 1 (01:08:33):
Of good.

Speaker 4 (01:08:36):
Moral whatever, or people who were really good people who
are who are fighters like for advocates for our community
struggled with a black man going to prison and then
a black woman also being mistreated and not believed, not trusted.
So those things happened all at once, and it did

(01:08:58):
absolutely create a lot of tension in our community.

Speaker 1 (01:09:03):
But you know, you know, so my son, you go ahead.

Speaker 3 (01:09:06):
So for me, it's this is a two prong question.
I want you to give me what was the most
surprising thing that you heard in the trial and based
off what you might have read other than your own
commentary and in your own, you know, reporting of the trial,
what do you think was one of the biggest misconceptions

(01:09:29):
on just the media that they put out that you
found out why you were in the courtroom.

Speaker 1 (01:09:34):
Wasn't that you knew the media, the media or online
because the media, not.

Speaker 3 (01:09:40):
The media, but the online the chatter if you if
you were tuned into it, because there was so For me,
there was just so many things that were just so
conflicting based on what you were saying, based on what
people that know were in the courthouse, evidence that were
being presented, then.

Speaker 2 (01:09:55):
What was being put onto the you know, onto the websites.

Speaker 6 (01:10:00):
Yeah, probably probably the most surprising thing for me in
the beginning was going in there and then realizing that
it was actually like really big news that Tory's lawyer
was admitting that Megan was shot. That I didn't realize
and it was surprising to me that there was even
a narrative saying that she wasn't even shot, because I mean,
it stems from her saying that she stepped on glass
in the very beginning. But to me, it just seems

(01:10:22):
so understandable why she would why she would say that,
and why she wasn't ready to just tell the cops that, oh, yeah,
someone shot me and there's a gun in the car.
I mean, just with everything we just talked about with
the police, that all made sense to me. So I
was surprised at the narrative on that, and then one
thing that the focus on her relationship with Tory and

(01:10:46):
just the fact that you know, she gone on Gail
King and denied having an intimate relationship with him, but
then it turns out that they had had, that they
had been intimate. It was just like, why is this
even I mean, I guess I can understand why it
came up and the prosecutors were disclosing it to the
defense after they talked to Megan after the Gail King interview,

(01:11:09):
but it just seemed like, why is there even a
focus on this? Like why? I mean, I just didn't
understand how much of a role it actually played in
the case. And it seems surprising to me and kind
of shocking to me that they would have, like the
prosecutors would have that as part of the case. But
there's so much focus on the fact that she lied
in that Gail King interview, you know, and if she
lied about this, how could you believe anything that she said.

(01:11:31):
It's like, why was she even being asked about that,
you know? And I don't know, it just seemed it
just seemed inappropriate. It doesn't really have anything to do
with the fact that he shot her well, of course,
but it does though, because it's the domestic violence. I mean,
they weren't just two strangers who just happened to be
in the same location. It was prosecuted by the domestic
violence Family violence Unit, So I mean it was like

(01:11:52):
she said, I mean, he's an abuser. It had the
makings of that, and just the way Alex bought the
prosecutor in the in the trial. In the closing argument,
I remember he was alerting the going through the phone
call that Tory made from jail to Kelsey where he's apologizing,
but he's not saying exactly what he's apologizing before. But

(01:12:14):
Bob was just saying what else could he possibly be
talking about here? And he draws the jury's attention to
when Tory is asking Kelsey what hospital Megan's at just
the way he asks it in the and he's so persistent.
He asked it a couple of times, but he said,
you know, pay attention to the way he asked what
hospital she's at, and he's just like, what hospitals she at?

(01:12:37):
And he and Kelsey tells him, and then like maybe
a minute or so later, he asks again, and Kelsey's like, oh,
I just told you. And part of me is like
wants to say, you know, any woman who's ever had
to deal with some dumb ass man will recognize Kelsey's
tone in that phone call. But it's like, oh, yeah,
some dumb ass man. You just fired five rounds at

(01:12:58):
them and they got back in the car with them
and then had like it was just way more than
like a traditional, you know, women dealing with dumb.

Speaker 5 (01:13:07):
Men kind of thing. It's just like I was just like, wow,
this is like horribly abusive, Like yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:14):
It's funny.

Speaker 4 (01:13:15):
Well, I thought the same thing. I thought that first
of all, I don't think she should have lied at
all about on the interview with Gail King. I think
that that definitely led to the narrative around her just
being a liar and whatever, and it wasn't necessary to
lie at all because we already assumed that that was

(01:13:35):
the case. I mean, obviously, it's like, what else the
hell would have created so much of a situation. However,
I don't even understand why Gail asked that question. I
don't you know, I don't understand it, and I'm not
saying that. And perhaps it was because I don't know,
maybe maybe Gail felt like it was a necessary that's.

Speaker 2 (01:13:57):
What it was inline to discredit everything that she said.

Speaker 3 (01:14:02):
That was one of the main things that she was
mad because they were having sex, and this is why
her and Kelsey quote unquote ansay, so that was something
that they were trying to use to discredit her, and
it pushed off into actual reporters asking the question, I
don't think it really, Like, like Megan said, I don't
see where the relevance of her having sex with him.

Speaker 2 (01:14:23):
Months or days before that, but the same day it
did not getting shot. You know what I'm saying. I don't.
I don't see that.

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
But you got next question.

Speaker 3 (01:14:34):
What I want to say is there there's there's about
three things that I want to know because based off evidence,
you know, everybody hasn't seen the court transcripts. There's still
people with you know, their narrative and this is what happened,
and if that happened, why then this happened. There's this
There are two things that that people keep saying that

(01:14:58):
Kelsey's DNA is on the gun not toys, and there's
GSL on both of their hands, so that's what they
keep pointing to.

Speaker 2 (01:15:10):
Now, I don't know, I haven't read the court documents,
so I was accurate those two statements are, you know?

Speaker 6 (01:15:18):
And it's a good reminder to get to get the
transcripts of everything, like the DNA expert and the GSR
guy talking. I think that would help. But the DNA
was inconclusive. They actually didn't take Kelsey's DNA. But when
you look at the assessment of Tory's DNA, eighty percent
of the DNA profile they got went was was the

(01:15:40):
product of one male and they were able to exclude
Tory as that male. So the next like the other
mixture of DNA was too inconclusive to conclude if Tory
was contributed or didn't contribute it to that DNA. So
it would have been the same with Kelsey because Kelsey's
not a man, so she wouldn't have been the contributor

(01:16:00):
to the eighty percent. But then the other DNA samples
are so small that it was like Tory being inconclusive.
It would have just been inconclusive with Kelsey.

Speaker 2 (01:16:10):
They did have.

Speaker 6 (01:16:11):
Tory did have a defense expert who opined that he
thought that the results showed that one of the profiles
was more likely to be a female, but that was
discredited by the other DNA expert, and it just didn't
It just didn't have much weight in court. But I
think to I think it would help to get the

(01:16:31):
transcripts of the DNA expert testimony in the GSR, because
Kelsey and Tory did both have GSR on their hands.
But of course the story was that Kelsey was standing
right next to him when when he shot her. So,
I mean, and a lot of the stuff from the
transcripts that I've seen, I just wonder. I was, like,
have people actually read the stories, like the long crime

(01:16:52):
stories on Sean Kelly's testimony and the tweets about that,
because we were really clear James from the La Times too,
that you know, Sean was originally said that he saw
two women fighting and he thought the flashes originated with
the girl. But then he said that basically Tory took
over and was shooting.

Speaker 4 (01:17:09):
So but can I go back to this, So you
said eighty percent of the DNA that was on the
weapon was a male, but he was excluded from being
the possible mail.

Speaker 6 (01:17:25):
Right, right, So it was always I mean I remember
when I was watching the trial, I was like, well,
it sounds like it was Kwan.

Speaker 5 (01:17:30):
I mean his his driver, right, yeah, but.

Speaker 4 (01:17:36):
The driver's gun that's in the car, Yeah, and then
Tory gets access to it and this all happened.

Speaker 2 (01:17:46):
But the driver took the gun from Tory, and you
know what I'm saying, And.

Speaker 6 (01:17:53):
So everything that happened afterward, like his demeanor afterward, I
mean that when they were pulled over on near Hollywood Boulevard,
he had the gun at his feet. I mean that
that kind of thing there was all there was kind
of a just a totality of circumstances that led to it.
Or But one thing I want to do is get
the transcript for closing arguments because that would sum.

Speaker 4 (01:18:12):
It up right and that but the gs R piece
is important because we know that GSR spreads, so whoever
is closest to you can have it on their clothes,
can have it on their hands, maybe even they go
to be like stop or whatever, or you know, different
things that can make GSR spread. So there are people

(01:18:34):
who are saying that there's no evidence in this case
because of those two that that particular area around.

Speaker 1 (01:18:43):
They just.

Speaker 6 (01:18:46):
They just don't know what evidence is. There's tons of evidence.
I mean, the testimony is evidence, the calls he made,
or evidence the the statements they made or evidence. I
mean every there's there's a ton of evidence. And it's
i mean the GSR and the DNA stuff I just
think is the product of there's so much focus on that,

(01:19:08):
but it's the product of like the CSI generation, people
who just watched CSI and they think that's the only
kind of evidence that there is because the totality of
the circumstances was I mean, the jury came back pretty
fast against him. And that's one thing, like all the
talk in that documentary that just came out, I'm like,
twelve jurors convicted this guy. Twelve people who live in
La County, sat saw everything, they heard everything, they talked

(01:19:33):
about everything, and deliberations. They asked to see Sean Kelly's
for a readback of Sean Kelly's testimony. They asked for
a read back of the GSR testimony. They were asking
for a readback of Megan's testimony, but then they said
they didn't need it anymore after they heard the GSR stuff,
and then they went and convicted them. So that's the
one thing I'm like, there's so much like these documentaries

(01:19:54):
that come out that just rehash what everybody knows. It's like,
the one thing that I want to do is find
the jurors and talk to the jury support. But I'm
sure you don't want to come.

Speaker 1 (01:20:03):
Forward pose themselves. Yeah yeah, but I would.

Speaker 5 (01:20:05):
I would give a man.

Speaker 2 (01:20:06):
So so listen.

Speaker 1 (01:20:09):
So we'll make sure we put that out there.

Speaker 4 (01:20:10):
If you're a juring you follow us, or you follow
or listen to street politicians that Megan is willing to
give you an amenity if you are are willing to
talk to her. But I want to because I know
you have to go. So let's just deal with Kelsey
for one more minute. So Kelsey's the the first lawyer.

(01:20:39):
The first lawyer says, after you know her text, I
mean her email exchange with Tory is exposed.

Speaker 1 (01:20:49):
She says, if you.

Speaker 4 (01:20:51):
All are going to follow to try to use the
Kelsey shot, Meg Narra, I can't be involved in that
one because there's a lie being told that I somehow
offered Kelsey money or I was involved in trying to

(01:21:12):
get her paid, and that no, well she.

Speaker 6 (01:21:14):
She didn't make that connection in the email. Tory's new
lawyers later tried to say that, oh, the reason she
didn't want to do the Kelsey defense is because she
had a conflict and didn't want her her her role
to be brought out. But I think it's pretty clear
in the email that she tells Toy she doesn't she's
not comfortable advancing the Kelsey defense, primarily because she doesn't

(01:21:36):
think it's a viable strategy. And I mean, Sean Holly
is an experienced criminal defense attorney, much more experienced than
George mcdesi and the guy that he went with, and
I think she just saw the optics of it and
knew it was a losing strategy to advance and basically
told him that he should find another lawyer if he wanted.

Speaker 2 (01:21:53):
To do it.

Speaker 1 (01:21:53):
Yes, she said, you got to find another lawyer.

Speaker 4 (01:21:56):
I'm glad that you finished it, because I did see
her saying you know that that's not true. And my
thing with the Tory Lane's defenders and his supporters is
that either you're saying that she did because their position
is she just didn't want to do it because she
was implicated in a possible bribe, but then that means
it was something to bribe for, So either way it

(01:22:20):
doesn't help.

Speaker 6 (01:22:21):
The U and I both know that that's not true.
Was when she was telling him about the bribe money,
that she's somehow offered bribe money to Kelsey, and she
was saying that's not true. And that's one thing that
people forget about in this whole Kelsey thing is the
bribe because that documentary that just dared was so irresponsible
on some of the stuff that they just aired on

(01:22:41):
on stuff. But her pleading the fifth when they're like, oh,
she must have something to hide it, it's like anyone
who was in the situation that she would be would
be pleading the fifth, wanting to plead the fifth and
get some kind of immunity and testimony. But it's the
bribery thing, guys. I mean, they're trying to pass it
off like Kelsey pleaded the fifth because she's the actual
and she went back and told the judge that I'm

(01:23:03):
actually the one who shot Megan, and the judge was like, okay,
well we're going to give you immunity. That's ridiculous that.
I mean, we don't know exactly what happened and we're
never going to be able to get the transcript for that.
But that's there's no way that's what happened. And it
has everything to do with the bribery thing, because I mean,
I think I haven't watched that documentary, but Alex Bott
says the prosecutor says in the documentary they think Kelsey

(01:23:23):
took a bribe and they wanted to amend the charges
against Tory during trial to add bribery charges. So it
was all about the bribery things. So the idea that
she pleaded the fifth it's it's all because of that.

Speaker 2 (01:23:35):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:23:36):
The gotta be Yeah, he has a leak. Yeah, well,
my son might want to ask the last question.

Speaker 2 (01:23:42):
I just want to ask this letter.

Speaker 3 (01:23:43):
So based on so they read Kelsey's original statement right
after they they questioned her in court, right.

Speaker 6 (01:23:54):
Yeah, yeah, they played the entire eighty minute interview that
she did with prosecutors. Was the next day her testimony
was over two days, and she recanted she wouldn't identify
Torri as the shooter. But then the judge ruled that
there were so many questions in the defense portion about
prosecutors pressuring her that to be fair, to make sure

(01:24:15):
the jury saw the whole picture, they would hear the
whole interview and just decide for themselves whether she was pressured.
So that was that was pretty bad, and that wouldn't
have come in if there hadn't been like bad lawyering
like that. But that was I mean, that was when
you really hear too, like you hear in a relaxed environment,
and it sounds it sounds like she she's there. I mean,

(01:24:35):
she's almost like in therapy the way she's like talking
about the situation, and it's basically just up to people
to decide. It's like, well, when was she telling the truth?
Was she telling the truth in this interview or was
she telling the truth on the witness stand when she
recanted the way I canted, it was just like I
think it was just kind of obvious for people, you know,
the yeah, yeah, I think.

Speaker 3 (01:24:56):
Pretty much basically because that's what I got from everybody
who actual it was there that was pretty much obvious
why she was recanting the statement.

Speaker 2 (01:25:05):
Yeah. At one point I heard that they asked her
was Tory playing for her lawyer?

Speaker 6 (01:25:16):
Yeah, I think they did response to that, you know,
I can't I can't remember exactly.

Speaker 5 (01:25:21):
I'd have to.

Speaker 2 (01:25:22):
I'd have to.

Speaker 5 (01:25:23):
I think they have.

Speaker 1 (01:25:24):
I think she said, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:25:26):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:25:27):
Yeah, I mean i'd have to.

Speaker 6 (01:25:28):
It's probably in my story. I haven't actually looked back
and read thoroughly my line crime story on Kelsey's testimony,
but it was pretty pretty detailed.

Speaker 2 (01:25:37):
So body, do you think that if Tory had testified
it would have been different?

Speaker 5 (01:25:43):
I'm not I'm not sure.

Speaker 6 (01:25:44):
I think it could have. I think he might as
well have it. It's like a hail Mary. I mean
I I kind of approach everything. And you'll learn this
old newsroom tradition is you vote your job, Like when
you're if you're deciding who to vote for an election,
and you're a journalist who works in a newsroom, you
vote for the politician who's going to give you the
best stories. So when people are like, oh, do you

(01:26:04):
think Tory should have testified, I'm like, well, it would
have been a hell of a good story if you testified,
So of course I wanted him to testify. Whether it
would have like helped his case or not, I'm not
it he would have been It would have been tough,
and he could he would have been killed up on,
especially in cross them asking him about that phone call
and everything, because the prosecutors would have been able to

(01:26:25):
just like start playing that phone call for him and
just being like, oh, so, what.

Speaker 5 (01:26:29):
Did you mean when you said this?

Speaker 6 (01:26:30):
Like, I mean, it would be he could have freaking
killed and some other stuff too, I mean not just
the rap lyrics, but other stuff that they could have
asked him about like it.

Speaker 5 (01:26:41):
I don't. I don't think it probably would have been
a good idea for him to testify.

Speaker 6 (01:26:44):
But it's also like, if you think you're going to
get convicted, you know, might as well do a hail Mary,
But I don't.

Speaker 5 (01:26:49):
I'm not sure if he thought he was going to
be convicted, what do you think.

Speaker 3 (01:26:53):
His chances of getting this bail and actually win an appeal,
just based off your experience and knowledge of law.

Speaker 6 (01:27:00):
Absolutely no chance for bail and five percent chance on appeal.

Speaker 5 (01:27:05):
I mean, I don't want to just say no.

Speaker 6 (01:27:06):
Chance on appeal because I haven't seen an opening brief
and I don't know what his issues are. But the
issues that were raised in the motion for new trial
aren't really any kind of big appellate issues. The lawyers
he has working for him don't really know what they're
doing about California pellet law. I mean, this guy that
he has that passes himself off as some kind of
renown depellate lawyer has only been a lawyer.

Speaker 5 (01:27:27):
For like six years.

Speaker 6 (01:27:28):
So I think it'll be a big question of whether
the appellate court, when they do issue they're ruling, whether
the ruling is unpublished or published, because most of their
rulings are unpublished, and that I mean, they're still public
and you can see him on the website, but they
don't argue or cite any kind of new case law
or findings, so it's not considered any kind of thing
that lawyers can cite in their rulings. So I think

(01:27:52):
it's probably unlike unlikely it'll even be a published opinion,
you know. But we'll just see what the issues are.
But I think this case is pretty much over for
a long time until the four well the fourteenth, the
bail hearing, I mean, if that actually happens, but there's
zero chance he's gonna get bail.

Speaker 4 (01:28:09):
Well, I thank you so much for you know, coming
and this probably we could probably do three more hours
of conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:28:16):
Yeah, I'd be happy to.

Speaker 5 (01:28:18):
I'm kind of I gotta do this YouTube live thing now.

Speaker 1 (01:28:22):
Yeah, I'd be happy ahead. Please go ahead and do it.
But tell folks before you go how they can subscribe.

Speaker 4 (01:28:29):
To your channels and your reporting, because now, in your independence,
you have sort of been forced to organize yourself.

Speaker 5 (01:28:39):
Yes, yes, i am, I'm on.

Speaker 1 (01:28:41):
I'm a subscriber. I just became a subscriber.

Speaker 6 (01:28:44):
Thank you so much, Thank you so much the paid subscriptions.
But uh, Legal Affairs and Trials dot com that's my
sub stack, and I've got a mailing list that I
cover trials, legal issues in Los Angeles, some celebrity news,
but also some big high profile criminal cases, federal public
corruption cases. There's a lot of public corruption in LA.

(01:29:06):
I mean, if anyone sees the state of downtown Los Angeles,
you can find some politicians to blame. Because the US
Attorney's Office says that corruption is a way of life
in LA politics, and they're trying to root it all out.
So there's been some pretty significant prison sentences handed down
to like a bel Air millionaire and that kind of
thing recently, so I'm kind of trying to keep track

(01:29:27):
of all that and YouTube too. I'm kind of trying
to get into the YouTube. Megan qnif is my YouTube channel,
but substack is the big thing. I'm trying to get
into substack notes more to kind of replace Twitter. But
you all can find me there.

Speaker 1 (01:29:42):
Yeahs terrible for me.

Speaker 4 (01:29:44):
I don't even go on and it's violence, yeah, because
I'm sure your future is beyond your understanding in terms
of where you're going.

Speaker 1 (01:29:54):
And I just want to say on behalf of not
just black.

Speaker 4 (01:29:57):
Women, but black people, that I appreciate the fact that
you are not just covering our stories but also trying
to understand our history by reading the books and learning
the things and being accessible to those of us who
have reached out to you.

Speaker 1 (01:30:11):
It means a lot.

Speaker 4 (01:30:12):
And you know, it's hard to find trusted individuals to
cover our stories, and we just hope, you know, you
continue to do what you're doing and even get better
and more. Whatever we can do to help increase your platform,
we want to be able to we want.

Speaker 6 (01:30:28):
To do that absolutely, Thank you so much. And that's
one of the best advice I got is to be
an ally, like consider this monumental life experiences like a
catalyst for the rest of my life to be an
ally and keep working on that.

Speaker 2 (01:30:43):
So thank you.

Speaker 5 (01:30:43):
That means a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:30:44):
We're airline.

Speaker 3 (01:30:45):
Just keep giving them credible information, you know, because it's
so hard to find that on this internet right now.
So you know, it was a breath of fresh air,
you know, just hearing you, just listening to you and
just seeing that actually what you were saying at actually
played out in real life. It wasn't like listening to
a lot of these people that just was just throwing

(01:31:05):
things at the wall trying to get something to stick.

Speaker 2 (01:31:08):
So we really the professionalism that you come with awesome.

Speaker 5 (01:31:12):
Well, thank you guys so much. It was awesome to
thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:31:18):
Good interview. Lots of stuff left.

Speaker 2 (01:31:20):
Un Yes, I wanted to ask about Kwan that because
I remember she posted that he walked into the courtroom
the day, you know, of when it was the case
was over, Like how did that go? It was a
lot of things that I wanted to know, but she,
for the most part, she gave us information man, a.

Speaker 4 (01:31:39):
Lot of things left uncovered, and I see where there
are people who are either die hard Tory Lanez fans,
and or they are just biased or not biased. They
are traumatized from the history of black men and the
system and all of that. I can see where they

(01:32:00):
found places that they could stick and say, no, you know,
this is not one hundred percent sure. But I can
tell you that in almost every case that I've ever
been involved with, it's never one hundred percent anything in
court because it's time, it's later. It's not like court.
It's happened in the same night of an incident, so

(01:32:23):
the people have changed stories. Evidence doesn't always show up
as it should. And to be quite honest, one of
the things that I think I'm hearing from this whole
scenario is that even the way the LAPD handled the
situation is was shitty because of the fact that it
was a black woman who was shot or and or

(01:32:44):
who stepped on glass or whatever. Right, and and and
let's and let's keep in mind that the fact that
the glass thing was even out there, and they are
not doctors, so they have no way of knowing that
there would actually be bullet fragments found in her feet.

Speaker 1 (01:33:00):
Later, they didn't really, it wasn't that serious.

Speaker 4 (01:33:02):
And that's what they do with us as black people,
and of course with black women, it's like, uh, you
know whatever, we'll lose the bullet fragments at the hospital.
Nobody cares. They don't care to get everybody's DNA. Kwan
should have been he should have had to give a
DNA sample. All of that should have happened, and that
makes people feel like they can't trust the system.

Speaker 1 (01:33:25):
But to Megan's point, there are many.

Speaker 4 (01:33:27):
Different pieces surrounding the whole thing that shows you what
took place. And Sean Kelly, while he says there's flashes
that could be jury, it could be a whole lot
of things. But the one thing that he was very
clear about is a man standing over the door or
over something, and that there were a number of.

Speaker 1 (01:33:49):
Shots that he saw.

Speaker 4 (01:33:51):
He kep He continuously said that he never changed that
he said he saw flashes.

Speaker 1 (01:33:57):
He thought maybe, but he absolutely.

Speaker 4 (01:34:00):
We saw a man with the gun over the thing.
And the number of shots that he said he heard
were consistent with the ring bells. And so for people
who keep trying to make the case that Kelsey was
shooting first and then he might have grabbed a gun.
The sound doesn't go pop hop or pop, and then

(01:34:21):
there's a long time in between and then all of
a sudden pop hoop or it again it is pop
pop pop pop pop, and I think five. It's either
four or five shots. And the man always said that
he saw someone do that. So either what people are
trying to say is that there was ten shots or
seven or eight or three be didn't here or two

(01:34:42):
we didn't here and then a space and then more
or the bottom line is what it is that the
man shot at the ground, more than likely trying to
be stupid, just I'm a pop pop up at the
ground to try to put fear in her and it
ricocheted and fragments hit her foot.

Speaker 1 (01:35:03):
That's what happened, I mean allegedly, But for me, no,
it's not allegedly. I mean based on convicted of something.

Speaker 4 (01:35:13):
People don't have to say allegedly because you've actually been
convicted of it.

Speaker 2 (01:35:17):
Now for me, coming from where I come from, knowing
that a man has an appeal, I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:35:23):
I don't know that to be true. That was the
that was the that was the the testimony of the person.
So allegedly it could be true, whatever it is. What
I say is this, you know, this situation got out
of hand and it went further than it should have,
and I blame I think, I say all the time

(01:35:44):
that Toy put itself in this situation. You know, when
you look from the beginning and when you even when
you talk about how you know the police did a
bad job, I don't. I think the police did the
job based on they seen three people together that look
like four people together that look like they probably had
a situation that nobody really wanted to give up any information,

(01:36:05):
so they didn't.

Speaker 2 (01:36:06):
They didn't pry. It's hard.

Speaker 3 (01:36:07):
They didn't think there was a situation that merited them saying, look,
we're trying to we gotta lock somebody up.

Speaker 2 (01:36:12):
We found somebody with a gun.

Speaker 3 (01:36:13):
Okay, cool, that's that's the furthest we're gonna take this situation.
They didn't the rest of the dynamics wasn't something that
they looked into. This gun was under this person's car,
But when we're gonna arrest this person for the gun,
They didn't think about all of the rest of the
intangible situation. And I think that Torri's ego and the
way that he you know, he carried on in on

(01:36:37):
social media and in the media, caused a woman who
was actually trying to protect him to feel like, you
know what, I can't. I don't want to protect him
no more because the level of defamation that he's doing
to me, I don't feel protected. And I think, you know,
although I don't think she should have been shot of anything,
but I think I really don't think that she wanted,

(01:36:58):
she had any initial you know, want to put the
man in jail. I think they did have a friendship, relationship,
whatever it was, and even though at that point it
probably was over, I didn't I don't think immediately she
wanted to go forward with putting that man in jail.
And I think I think the things that he did
after that night contributed to his own demise, you know,

(01:37:20):
And and that's why we're here and based on that,
you know, my, my, my.

Speaker 2 (01:37:25):
I don't get it, man, I just I just don't
get why while we hate.

Speaker 1 (01:37:29):
Us, you know, you know, Malcolm X get it, I
get it.

Speaker 2 (01:37:35):
I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:37:35):
I really don't, Minchael, who taught you to hate yourself?
When when I look at all of these situations that
we talked about today, you know, from the woman who's
got hit with the brick, to Spice and Erika Manna
to Tory Lanez and and and Megan's Desallian. It comes
back to self hate, right. It comes back to people

(01:37:57):
who are harmed, people who have been wrong shot, hit
with bricks, disrespected, racial slurves, all three. The people who
are actually had something done to them are actually being villainized, right.
And it's sad to me that black women have to
deal with this shit.

Speaker 2 (01:38:15):
It really is. Like I never used to.

Speaker 3 (01:38:17):
Say, like we always had conversation I used to debate
y'all down, like, nah, you don't understand what black men
go through telling you this, and now you don't understand.

Speaker 2 (01:38:25):
And I used to and I will argue you down.

Speaker 3 (01:38:28):
And over years I started to really see the level
of bias and the level of disrespect that black women
actually feel and actually experience on a daily basis. You
know that the neglect, it's just it's mind boggling. The
shit that I'm actually able to see now is just
mind boggling to me. It's mind boggling to me that

(01:38:50):
regardless of evidence that could be shown or anything, people
will justify harm and disrespect that comes to black women.

Speaker 2 (01:38:59):
Man. So I don't I don't understand how how we
got that far and self hate.

Speaker 3 (01:39:04):
I don't understand how, you know, a culture that was
so unified at once, you know, a culture that was
even after stay we were we were one of the
main you know, the main fundamental values of our culture
was to protect our children and our women. That's what
it was built on. You know, the black women has
always been a foundation of our culture. And I don't

(01:39:27):
know how we moved so far away from that, man.
And I really just don't get that.

Speaker 1 (01:39:32):
I mean, God bless us what some of us are
going to continue to sound me along?

Speaker 2 (01:39:36):
So some of us gonna always stand up for black women.
Y'all always got to ally for me.

Speaker 4 (01:39:41):
Just know we appreciate you black men, and we have
been and will continue. We have been and will continue
to stand up for black men as well. And you know,
as time goes on, the more we educate people, they
come along. We lose, some, win some, but we win many.

Speaker 2 (01:39:56):
Men.

Speaker 3 (01:39:56):
With that said, I'm not gonna always be right to
me get malories. I can always be wrong, were both
always and always I mean always be authentic.

Speaker 2 (01:40:06):
Peace.

Speaker 4 (01:40:08):
Listen, to Street Politicians on the Black Effect Network on iHeartRadio, and.

Speaker 3 (01:40:13):
Catch us every single Wednesday for the video version of
Street Politicians on iwomen dot tv.

Speaker 2 (01:40:18):
That's how we owned