January 9, 2023 • 24 mins
With some rapid-fire questions ready to be served Wells wastes no time as he hits Tyler right out of the gate with a question everybody wants to know…what the hell is a Michelin rating and does it really mean something?
Plus, what a restaurant should do if a customer finds a hair?
And do chefs really hate modifications?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's two dudes in a kitchen with Tyler Florence and
Wells Adams and I heart radio podcast. All right, welcome
in the two dudes in a kitchen. I'm Wells Adams
alongside People Magazine's Sexiest Man of the Year nineteen and
Tyler Florence three. Close enough, man, it was Sexiest Chef
(00:20):
Alive two thousand three. You know, I own it. That
was my year. So I went to a Michelin star
restaurant recently, and I don't really know what that means,
but I hear that from my bougie friends. Can you
tell everyone what that means is that you can get
(00:40):
new tires at this restaurant. Well, Michelin is the holy
grail of notoriety when it comes to restaurants, right, And
so the Michelin Guide. And I'm gonna riff on this
history because forgive me if I get it wrong, but
I feel like it was back in the twenties or
the thirties whenever, like automobile trans station, specifically in France,
(01:02):
became with Michelin because they made tires um when it
became popular um to sell more tires to get people
on the road, Michelin came up with his guide of
restaurants because it felt like a fun thing to go
do in your car, to go drive from you know,
this town to that town. And so they kind of
came up with this idea called the Michelin Guide, right,
and it's been around forever and um, and now it's
(01:25):
kind of broken up into a couple of different things.
There's the Bendum Award, um, which is for kind of
like inexpensive neighborhood restaurants, which are just super high quality. Right.
So if you get a Bibendum Award, that's a really
great like neighborhood restaurant. And then when you get into
the Star category, um, and that's usually kind of a ceremony,
(01:45):
right when it comes to like it's usually a multi
course devastation menu where you know, it's like the chef
designs everything and it's like, you know, like somewhere between
eight and fifteen courses of small little bites with wine
pairings and exquisite service in a really really nice room. Um.
But the stars are you know, that that wonderful goal
that every chef was always you know pulling for uh
(02:08):
to to to you know, to feel validated, right, But
that being said, it's not. It's not everything, to be
honest with you, right, And I think at the end
of the day, when it comes to, you know, running
a really good restaurant is just give them what they want, right,
doing a really really super high quality thing, and then
make sure that you're really comfortable with making money. And
I think, and I always try to, you know, tell
young restaurant tours, that's like most important thing of operating
(02:31):
a restaurant is not necessarily going for a Michelin star,
but but going for a financial stability with your accountant, Right,
that's the most important thing. This is what I had
heard night. Correct me if I'm wrong. Um, the idea
originally was it was maps, and if you had one star,
it was if you were if you lived in that town,
(02:52):
you should drive to that restaurant and try it out.
If it was two stars, it was if you were
on a road trip, you were going through a town, Um,
and there was a two star restaurant, you should stop
and go to that restaurant. If it was three stars,
you should make a trip to wherever that is to
(03:12):
go there. I don't know if that's true, but I've
I've heard that. I always playing my vacations around restaurants,
Like we went to France last summer and um, our
entire itinerary was based around where we're gonna eat at night. Yeah,
I need to see that itinerary. I've got a great
Please send that over. Let me ask you this, as
a chef, what would you rather have a Michelin Star
(03:33):
rated store or to win a James Beard Award. I
think they're both really great. You know. We I've been
nominated for James Beard Award Best Chef West Coast two times. Um.
And there's so much great you know talent here in
the Bay Area. And and we're actually on the short
list for a Michelan Star this year. Um, we didn't
get it, um, but we're always kind of pushing for that.
(03:53):
I think if you come to Miller and lux and
and it's really hard to get a Michelin start your
first year. So I'm chalking it up to that. But
I think that's definitely the Kobe Live By. I think
all of it's really good man. You know, it's great
publicity for the restaurant. As a restaurant group, We're gonna
go for a James Beard nomination and we're gonna go
for a Michelin star. It's a really great way to
(04:15):
uh kind of pull your team together for you know,
potential kind of goal and fight and we're gonna win
this and and so I think all those things are
really really worth it. But at the end of the day,
you know, it's not necessarily about you know, what you
want to do, It's about what your customers really want.
And so I think you just got to live with
a nice blend between all of that. Most restaurants never
(04:36):
see their second birthday. That's a real stat And so
I think if you can get a restaurant that's successful
for five years, ten years, fifteen years, you did something amazing. Yeah. Well,
speaking of restaurants, we've got some questions from listeners that
I wanted to kind of rapid fire at you, Um,
real quick, this is your really good questions. Number one, Um,
(04:56):
if a customer gets hair in the food and they
show you the it there's hair in the food, what
are you supposed to do from the restaurant's point of viewer, Well, no,
I guess like as the customer, like, if there's a
hair in my food, what do I do? Well, it's
like no one's shaving their head in the kitchen, and
and I think hairnets are gross, right, So occasionally it'll happen, right,
and so, um, there's so many blocks and tackles that
(05:18):
would have to you know. So the so the cook
prepares the dish, and then the chef cuisine gives the
dish one last blessing and then it goes up into
the past. And then the executive chef is expediting, takes
a look at it one more time before it goes
out the door, and then hands it to the white staff.
And the white staff has given it one more check
and one more look over. So the idea that that
(05:40):
a single hair would have to kind of go through
all of those eyeballs before it hits the table, And
occasionally it does happen. It's it's happened in my restaurants, right,
and so I think you have to apologize. Um, you
see someone's like luxurious hair in their head and always
kind of look looks really good until you see it
on a plate and then it's like, all of a sudden,
it's really gross. Right, Um, from the restaurant's perspective, you apologize, right,
(06:02):
you whisk the dish away, you replace it for free. Right,
So you know, you pick up another salmon dish or
another whatever it is, and and then you just fire
it quickly and send it back out and you just
apologize and and and hopefully you know someone's has has
has sort of an adult about it, you know, and
they're not going to sort of act like a child
and you know break out. So we're fit. Yeah. Um,
(06:24):
when it comes to modifications, do do restaurants hate that?
Like if you're like, yeah, I want this, but can
I get this instead of this? And I want this
on the side, Like is that annoying? Should just order
like what's on the menu? Or is modifications Okay? Well
I think modifications are really important because you you know,
you put together this dish that you think is perfect
until somebody comes in who likes it but they want
(06:47):
the sauce on the side, or they you know, they
have some sort of allergy and tolerance to some sort
of element that's on the dish, and and so we
always construct the dishes that you know, things that are
no own allergens. And you know you're you're talking about gluten, right,
that's probably the big one. Nuts, that's probably the most
(07:07):
serious one. Shellfish allergies. That's another really important one as well. Arguments.
So some people have are allergic to garlic, uh, dairy
as one, that's really important. So so you kind of
but there's so many people that you know, come into
the restaurant that you just want to be available for everybody, right, So, um,
we build our dishes that can be deconstructed pretty quickly, yeah,
(07:29):
if need be right. And so we always think about
that too, because like it's and it feels like a
you know, uh, when I was a kid or kind
of growing up in restaurants, there there wasn't a you know,
there wasn't a table side conversation about uh allergens and
preferences before you took their order. And now it's a
real communication tool. It's a big must. We we had
(07:49):
this situation not too long ago in the restaurant where
someone had made the reservation an open table, had you know,
documented they had a severe nut allergy, and then they
ordered a dish that doesn't have nuts on it, and
I swear to God, a piece of pistachio from another
plate ended up on their dish. And then and and
it was just like, oh my god, how could that
possibly happen in our restaurant, and she and she put
(08:10):
in her mouth. Right, My older brother has a severe
nut allergy, so I've lived with that for most of
my life, and so she felt it in her mouth immediately,
you know, spitting her napkin brought it up to the
waiter's attention, and then we had to go through and
literally just just almost sanitize the station again one more time. Right, Like,
the pistachio is a crumble that goes onto another dish.
(08:31):
I think the one of her cooks was kind of
spooning the pistachio element of one dish over the salmon
dish that she had ordered. So it's like, I think,
so that's how we determined that one piece of the
pistachio ended up on her plate. Um. But those things
are are really important because, like you know, they can
be life threatening, for sure, absolutely for sure. Last one,
(08:52):
I've been to some fancy restaurants that don't have salt
and pepper on the table. Is it rude to ask
for salt and pepper at restaurants like that? Um, we
don't have salt on the table, we do have pepper, right,
And and that being said, no one ever uses it.
We're never like really refilling the pepper mills every night.
(09:12):
They're just kind of there because it looks like it's
really pretty table decoration. They're really nice, like French pougeot
pepper mills on the table um. But I think if
you have to put salt and pepper on the table,
I think you should re examine some of the dishes
inside the kitchen to make sure that they're balanced properly
and their season properly. You shouldn't really have to ask
that they should be delicious from the jump. You shouldn't
(09:34):
really have to think about season for sure. Yeah. Well,
speaking of restaurants, coming up, we have Danielle cusin Itch
who's going to be on the show, and she actually
had a really popular wine bar in San Francisco, right
and it was going gangbusters during the pandemic. You were
(09:54):
out there. What was the story, Yeah, So, so it's
it's a really really interesting, very very popular wine bar
and it was four blocks away from way Fair Taburn,
my restaurant in the Financial District. And it's just so
sad to kind of hear these stories where, you know, restaurants,
because people put all their money and all their heart
and all their soul into these places that the public
(10:15):
just love, and it really becomes like an important meeting
place where you know, events are celebrated and milestones or
you know, or are toasted too, and and the and
and if people can't respect in the community, then they
start to damage your restaurant. Like, it doesn't really happen
to my restaurants that much, but occasionally we do get
tagged um with spray paint on the outside and we
have to clean the building from time to time. But
(10:36):
it's always sad to hear these stories. But this is
restaurant reality. This is this happens. Yeah, well we're getting
some restaurant reality here in a bit, quick break and
we come back. We have Danielle Kazins on two Dudes
in the kitchen. All right, we're back at two dudes
in the kitchen. Wells Adams teller floor and seting out
with you. And we have now on the show, Danielle
(10:59):
cus Niche. How are you, I'm good? How are you
really good? Um? We're sad to hear that your wine
bar in San Francisco is closing. Well, the parklets closing.
The wine bar is not closing. Oh thank God, so
tell us what happened, because I was I was reading
that there was like some vanilists. It's been a long road,
to be honest with you. We opened the parklet in
(11:20):
March of twenty one. We've had a bunch of small
vandalisms break ins, but on New Year's Eve of last year,
we had a person fully break into it. While I
was out of town. I got a call from the
fire department down the street that it had been destroyed
and the guy, over the course of multiple hours, basically
dismantled it. We had to it took us about a
(11:43):
month to rebuild it. So that was that. We reopened
it again in January version two. But over the course
of the last year, just keeps getting broken into, keeps
getting vandalized. We keep trying to find ways to lock
it down even better, but it just seems like if
there's a will, there's a way, and they'll get into somehow.
So the park Let phenomenon, you know, was our outdoor
(12:06):
dining space during the pandemic, and so grateful for the
opportunity to pivot and have something to pivot too instead
of having you know, occupancy ruling for a while and
then at least, you know, having the outdoor space felt
so positive because people were cool with it. You know,
It's like at least they could go out to dinner
and and kind of sit outside and feel like they
(12:28):
were you know, socially distancing and still enjoying themselves at
the same time, and such such an uplifting thing. And
now I feel like, especially in New York right where
the park let phenomenon has really become you know, uh,
the new sort of um additional dining room. So it's
almost like opening up a restaurant inside of a restaurant
you already open at our restaurant way for a tavern
(12:49):
around the corner from from Wine Society. UM, we luckily
get a chance to take over UM leads door if Avenue,
so we have an additional eight seats outside. But that
park let, I'm telling you like it. I love it,
and then I kind of hate it because we would
just have to break it down every single night and
like loaded up into the main dining room on the floor.
So you have to break it down every night, set
(13:10):
up every single day, and kind of do this thing
over and over again. And I think, you know, having
this sort of vulnerability because you want to make it nice,
you want to put some money into it, but you
literally have part of your dining room sitting out unprotected
for us. Like I don't know if you've actually seen
or the parklet in person, but we turned it into
a living room. That parklet has to fireplaces, four chandeliers,
(13:31):
all the furniture is really nice and swanky and um,
I mean I have probably spent a total of posts
on this between building it, rebuilding it. Same thing. You know,
then you look at the labor dollars because we have
to do the same thing. We put all the furniture out,
we break it all down on the days and it's raining.
(13:53):
It's not super usable it is because it has a
roof on it. But you know the same thing where
we have to bring in the furniture or put it inside.
So if it is raining and we're not able to
utilize it, we still have to find a way to
like tuck it away or put it out there. And um,
you know ours we have these big boards that go
over the front of it. There's like master locks. I mean,
it's a whole production to set it up and break
(14:14):
it down every day. Um, and it it's it's sad
because I do really like the parklet phenomena. I mean,
it reminds me of Europe. I spend a lot of
time in Europe, and it's a very European outdoor dining vibe.
So you're going to break it down and then not
reopen the parklet outside, And I think a lot of
restaurant tours are kind of moving past that because it is,
(14:34):
um you know, a lot of extra labor, right because
you have to have extra wait staff on on board.
Do you feel like you're happy to put it behind
you with all the you know, damage that kind of
came along with it, and just move forward. What you got?
Mixed feelings, big time mixed feelings. Um. You know, it's
been a really special place to a lot of people.
You know, I've got this group of ladies that are
(14:55):
in their eighties and nine years old that come every
single Tuesday and sit out there. They have a stand
reservation they have for almost two years. Um, they're they're
every Tuesday at five o'clock. Um. And so it's been
a really special place. We've got a lot of incredible memories. UM.
Like I said, you should probably come check it over
if you're still in San Francisco, before we break it down. UM,
it's a cool space. It's a really really unique space,
(15:17):
and so part of its heartbreaking. UM, you know, I
put I personally designed it, helped build it, do all
the things. So putting it behind me, it's there's a
love hate relationship with it. UM. I will definitely be
happy not to worry about it being broken into. But
I'm gonna, you know, from a revenue standpoint, miss the space. UM,
seeing the expression on people's faces when they're just wowed
(15:39):
by it. Well, and and for a lot of people
who are listening to this, because it was a phenomenon
that you know, was taking place coast to coast as
the answer to the pandemic when restaurants could open, but
they can only open with outdoor dining. And then you
know a lot of restaurants who didn't even necessarily have
the outdoor dining started figure out what they could do
(16:00):
to build a dining room quickly, and they they were
anointed as a parklet, right, and it's like this outdoor
kind of cafe space that was designed and built. Um,
you know, the first generation, we're just sort of kind
of crude. And then people started put some money into it,
and they and they became like really really nice and
so right now our revenue, you know, a way for
top room is better than it wasn't two thousand nineteen
(16:22):
because of the additional seating capacity we have outside. And
so I I'd give another shot, to be honest with you,
before I'd before I'd break it down and just try
to figure out how to you know, set a better
mousetrap for someone who wants to vandalize it, right, I mean,
like better security security cameras, you know, um, private security
guards like whatever. It would just you know, keep your
(16:42):
protect your revenue and protect your investment. But San Francisco
loves it. I mean it's such a beautiful idea. I
mean it's just like beautiful creativity. It feels fun. Um,
it's a great spot downtown, the financial district. I'm glad
we're neighbors um around the corner. It's a good neighborhood
to be in. And uh, I don't know, if I
were you, I would the towel. It's tough. I mean,
outside of hiring private security, I don't really know how
(17:05):
much more we could do. I mean, it's like Fort
Knox as much as it possibly can be being able
to have it open at night or during the day. Um,
we'll see. I've had a lot of of course, a
lot of support post um the articles coming out about
it closing, and I have a meeting with the city
who is trying to convince me not to close it
(17:26):
down as well. So we'll see what happens. But you know,
as of now, it's just you know, we'll see, We'll
see what happens. And connecting with your your city representative,
I think is a really important way to take to
think about that from a security standpoint, because you could
just say, listen, we pay taxes here. You know, it's
like where where are the police, you know, protecting my
business that contributes to the community, like help, And so
(17:48):
I would definitely, you know, give that a shot. We
would miss it. Yeah. I think that that's part of
the bigger discussion, is the fact that it's not this
isn't just about my part, that about what's happening to me.
It's about what's happening all over the city and to
a lot of small business our businesses in general, and
we need to find a way to deal with the
bigger issue at hand. UM. And I think that that
(18:10):
is what's been important to me to shed light on
this situation versus um versus just being about my business.
I wanted to talk to you about your business and
what you do, which is you are a wine expert
and I am not an expert in anything, especially with wine.
And we were talking earlier about like kind of like
the dues and does when you go to restaurants and stuff,
do you have advice for how to order like the
(18:33):
right bottle of wine when you go out and are celebrating. Yeah,
I mean I think that that if you're not an expert,
I think that that's when you lean on the experts.
You know. That's what we're here to do, and we're
here to help. We're here to make recommendations. Um. You
know are my wine bar. You know, we have bottles
of wine that started thirty two dollars and we have
bottles of line that are over ten tho dollars a bottle. Um.
(18:55):
But I think when you're going out and if you're
it doesn't matter what price point you're looking in, you know,
talk to the team. Talk to the team. That's what
we're here to do because we can make the recommendations
for you. Um, you know, and that's how you learn.
You know, you can talk to them about what you
like to drink, what you enjoy about certain wines, which
you don't like about certain ones. And that is we're
educated to be able to help guide you in the
(19:17):
right direction, no matter what price points in And I
think the wine the wine journey is always really interesting
when when people are approached with a wine list at
a restaurant, because sometimes you can be really daunting. And
I think in a lot of ways it's a name
brand oriented at first. Is it a label that you recognize? Right?
And I always tell people to really, you know, focus
on the grape first. Right, So if you really like
(19:38):
fall in love with something, fall in love with Cab,
fall in love with Pino, fall in love with Zen,
fall in love with super tuscan you know, fall in
love with you know, with with French burgundies, fall in
love with with a specific grape vital and then explore
like a region and and and and try your hardest
to take really good notes or take pictures with your camera,
and that way you can kind of build up a
memory bank of things that you really really like it.
(20:00):
If you love something to pick up a case of it.
You know, it's always really nice to have you a
good talking point at a cocktail party at your house,
or if you open up a bottle by the fireplace
at your house of like a wine that's got a
specific story about something fun. Yeah, absolutely, I mean I
definitely think also like try things you've never heard of.
I think that's the only way that you learn and
you get to explore your palette. Okay, so everybody that
(20:20):
at home, you know who loves a really good glass
of wine, and it's always sort of you know, figuring
out what they want to serve for a dinner party
or how they want to build a wine collection from scratch,
Like what would be your kind of go to? We
don't have to like talk specificity with like brands or whatever,
but like if you had to build a wine collection
(20:42):
from scratch, red and white, what would what your go to?
What do you have to have? That's yeah, I mean
you've got to mix it up. I mean, if you're
starting from scratch, you start with what you like, you know,
with red and white. If you like Italian wines, start
with Italian wines instead of exploring US Spain or you know,
or France, and um, but I think you've got to
(21:04):
have the staples. You know, California, Italy, France, Spain, Portugal.
Portugal is one on a lot of people's list, and
I think that should be on more people's list. U.
I do love Portuguese wines. But start smalling, grow, you know,
don't don't overthink it that you have to have everything.
Building a wine collection takes a lot of a lot
of time. But um, start with what you love. Well,
(21:25):
it's what about you, man? What do you what do
you like to drink wine? Is it wet? It's it
tastes like wine. I did actually have someone asked me
for a wet wine one time at one Yeah, those
ones are better than the dry ones for sure. Uh.
But it's funny because Sarah and I have different We
both like red wine, but I'm more of like a
(21:47):
peano noir guy. And then she likes a big gun.
She likes a like a big cab or like a
like a high alcohol content zinfandel. I call them slutty wines. Yeah, yeah,
my wife likes slowly wine. That makes that makes total
Tell everyone when they need to go to visit your
eyes store. San Francisco, Wyant society is for the our
(22:07):
elate Merchant Street in the financial district. YEP, it's four
blocks away from a wayfair tavern, so you know, pop
pop around the corner comes to us. Yeah, I would
just say the other night you had a good time. Yeah,
we had always Yeah, Oh thank you for that's where
we are twelve years old. I know, I know, I've
been in this location for twelve years. In February, congratulations
(22:29):
and and heartbreaking here about your parklet. But I definitely
wouldn't let them win. I would. I would keep at
it and just kind of build a better mousetrap or
put better security cameras upward and anything you can do
just to kind of keep the vibrancy of the neighborhood open,
because I think it's really important to not let them win.
You know, we have to because I think restaurants our culture.
I think restaurants, restaurants make up the city without a question,
(22:54):
and and so we in specificly in San Francisco, really
pride ourselves on great hospitality and great food and beverage
and great restaurants and great you know, restaurant society. I'd
say at it because you're very valued member of the community,
that's for sure. Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you,
We thank you for being on the show. Danielle, good
luck with everything. And next of them up there, I'm
I'm coming in. Yeah, and I'm bringing my wife, who
(23:17):
like slutty wines perfect. My best friend likes the same.
So bye you guys, take care well. I learned a
lot about wine. And you know, I hope this podcast
gets popular enough that we can go to her store
and um order that ten thousand dollar one. I think
we will. Man. I enjoy getting together with you every
(23:38):
week and talking about food and culture and restaurants and
yummy stuff and and we're getting really really good guests
in and I think we're taking off Two Duds in
the Kitchen. And if you guys listening out there and
haven't rated our show, that would be awesome if you
could go do that five stars, leave us a review.
Any questions you have, we can answer them there, and uh,
thanks for tuning in. We'll see guys next week. Thanks later, Tyler.
(23:58):
Al Right, guys, thanks for listening while us on Instagram
at two Dudes in the Kitchen, make sure to write
us a review and leave us five stars. We'll take
that and we'll see you guys next time, See you
next time.
It's two dudes in a kitchen with Tyler Florence and
Wells Adams and I heart radio podcast. All right, welcome
in the two dudes in a kitchen. I'm Wells Adams
alongside People Magazine's Sexiest Man of the Year nineteen and
Tyler Florence three. Close enough, man, it was Sexiest Chef
(00:20):
Alive two thousand three. You know, I own it. That
was my year. So I went to a Michelin star
restaurant recently, and I don't really know what that means,
but I hear that from my bougie friends. Can you
tell everyone what that means is that you can get
(00:40):
new tires at this restaurant. Well, Michelin is the holy
grail of notoriety when it comes to restaurants, right, And
so the Michelin Guide. And I'm gonna riff on this
history because forgive me if I get it wrong, but
I feel like it was back in the twenties or
the thirties whenever, like automobile trans station, specifically in France,
(01:02):
became with Michelin because they made tires um when it
became popular um to sell more tires to get people
on the road, Michelin came up with his guide of
restaurants because it felt like a fun thing to go
do in your car, to go drive from you know,
this town to that town. And so they kind of
came up with this idea called the Michelin Guide, right,
and it's been around forever and um, and now it's
(01:25):
kind of broken up into a couple of different things.
There's the Bendum Award, um, which is for kind of
like inexpensive neighborhood restaurants, which are just super high quality. Right.
So if you get a Bibendum Award, that's a really
great like neighborhood restaurant. And then when you get into
the Star category, um, and that's usually kind of a ceremony,
(01:45):
right when it comes to like it's usually a multi
course devastation menu where you know, it's like the chef
designs everything and it's like, you know, like somewhere between
eight and fifteen courses of small little bites with wine
pairings and exquisite service in a really really nice room. Um.
But the stars are you know, that that wonderful goal
that every chef was always you know pulling for uh
(02:08):
to to to you know, to feel validated, right, But
that being said, it's not. It's not everything, to be
honest with you, right, And I think at the end
of the day, when it comes to, you know, running
a really good restaurant is just give them what they want, right,
doing a really really super high quality thing, and then
make sure that you're really comfortable with making money. And
I think, and I always try to, you know, tell
young restaurant tours, that's like most important thing of operating
(02:31):
a restaurant is not necessarily going for a Michelin star,
but but going for a financial stability with your accountant, Right,
that's the most important thing. This is what I had
heard night. Correct me if I'm wrong. Um, the idea
originally was it was maps, and if you had one star,
it was if you were if you lived in that town,
(02:52):
you should drive to that restaurant and try it out.
If it was two stars, it was if you were
on a road trip, you were going through a town, Um,
and there was a two star restaurant, you should stop
and go to that restaurant. If it was three stars,
you should make a trip to wherever that is to
(03:12):
go there. I don't know if that's true, but I've
I've heard that. I always playing my vacations around restaurants,
Like we went to France last summer and um, our
entire itinerary was based around where we're gonna eat at night. Yeah,
I need to see that itinerary. I've got a great
Please send that over. Let me ask you this, as
a chef, what would you rather have a Michelin Star
(03:33):
rated store or to win a James Beard Award. I
think they're both really great. You know. We I've been
nominated for James Beard Award Best Chef West Coast two times. Um.
And there's so much great you know talent here in
the Bay Area. And and we're actually on the short
list for a Michelan Star this year. Um, we didn't
get it, um, but we're always kind of pushing for that.
(03:53):
I think if you come to Miller and lux and
and it's really hard to get a Michelin start your
first year. So I'm chalking it up to that. But
I think that's definitely the Kobe Live By. I think
all of it's really good man. You know, it's great
publicity for the restaurant. As a restaurant group, We're gonna
go for a James Beard nomination and we're gonna go
for a Michelin star. It's a really great way to
(04:15):
uh kind of pull your team together for you know,
potential kind of goal and fight and we're gonna win
this and and so I think all those things are
really really worth it. But at the end of the day,
you know, it's not necessarily about you know, what you
want to do, It's about what your customers really want.
And so I think you just got to live with
a nice blend between all of that. Most restaurants never
(04:36):
see their second birthday. That's a real stat And so
I think if you can get a restaurant that's successful
for five years, ten years, fifteen years, you did something amazing. Yeah. Well,
speaking of restaurants, we've got some questions from listeners that
I wanted to kind of rapid fire at you, Um,
real quick, this is your really good questions. Number one, Um,
(04:56):
if a customer gets hair in the food and they
show you the it there's hair in the food, what
are you supposed to do from the restaurant's point of viewer, Well, no,
I guess like as the customer, like, if there's a
hair in my food, what do I do? Well, it's
like no one's shaving their head in the kitchen, and
and I think hairnets are gross, right, So occasionally it'll happen, right,
and so, um, there's so many blocks and tackles that
(05:18):
would have to you know. So the so the cook
prepares the dish, and then the chef cuisine gives the
dish one last blessing and then it goes up into
the past. And then the executive chef is expediting, takes
a look at it one more time before it goes
out the door, and then hands it to the white staff.
And the white staff has given it one more check
and one more look over. So the idea that that
(05:40):
a single hair would have to kind of go through
all of those eyeballs before it hits the table, And
occasionally it does happen. It's it's happened in my restaurants, right,
and so I think you have to apologize. Um, you
see someone's like luxurious hair in their head and always
kind of look looks really good until you see it
on a plate and then it's like, all of a sudden,
it's really gross. Right, Um, from the restaurant's perspective, you apologize, right,
(06:02):
you whisk the dish away, you replace it for free. Right,
So you know, you pick up another salmon dish or
another whatever it is, and and then you just fire
it quickly and send it back out and you just
apologize and and and hopefully you know someone's has has
has sort of an adult about it, you know, and
they're not going to sort of act like a child
and you know break out. So we're fit. Yeah. Um,
(06:24):
when it comes to modifications, do do restaurants hate that?
Like if you're like, yeah, I want this, but can
I get this instead of this? And I want this
on the side, Like is that annoying? Should just order
like what's on the menu? Or is modifications Okay? Well
I think modifications are really important because you you know,
you put together this dish that you think is perfect
until somebody comes in who likes it but they want
(06:47):
the sauce on the side, or they you know, they
have some sort of allergy and tolerance to some sort
of element that's on the dish, and and so we
always construct the dishes that you know, things that are
no own allergens. And you know you're you're talking about gluten, right,
that's probably the big one. Nuts, that's probably the most
(07:07):
serious one. Shellfish allergies. That's another really important one as well. Arguments.
So some people have are allergic to garlic, uh, dairy
as one, that's really important. So so you kind of
but there's so many people that you know, come into
the restaurant that you just want to be available for everybody, right, So, um,
we build our dishes that can be deconstructed pretty quickly, yeah,
(07:29):
if need be right. And so we always think about
that too, because like it's and it feels like a
you know, uh, when I was a kid or kind
of growing up in restaurants, there there wasn't a you know,
there wasn't a table side conversation about uh allergens and
preferences before you took their order. And now it's a
real communication tool. It's a big must. We we had
(07:49):
this situation not too long ago in the restaurant where
someone had made the reservation an open table, had you know,
documented they had a severe nut allergy, and then they
ordered a dish that doesn't have nuts on it, and
I swear to God, a piece of pistachio from another
plate ended up on their dish. And then and and
it was just like, oh my god, how could that
possibly happen in our restaurant, and she and she put
(08:10):
in her mouth. Right, My older brother has a severe
nut allergy, so I've lived with that for most of
my life, and so she felt it in her mouth immediately,
you know, spitting her napkin brought it up to the
waiter's attention, and then we had to go through and
literally just just almost sanitize the station again one more time. Right, Like,
the pistachio is a crumble that goes onto another dish.
(08:31):
I think the one of her cooks was kind of
spooning the pistachio element of one dish over the salmon
dish that she had ordered. So it's like, I think,
so that's how we determined that one piece of the
pistachio ended up on her plate. Um. But those things
are are really important because, like you know, they can
be life threatening, for sure, absolutely for sure. Last one,
(08:52):
I've been to some fancy restaurants that don't have salt
and pepper on the table. Is it rude to ask
for salt and pepper at restaurants like that? Um, we
don't have salt on the table, we do have pepper, right,
And and that being said, no one ever uses it.
We're never like really refilling the pepper mills every night.
(09:12):
They're just kind of there because it looks like it's
really pretty table decoration. They're really nice, like French pougeot
pepper mills on the table um. But I think if
you have to put salt and pepper on the table,
I think you should re examine some of the dishes
inside the kitchen to make sure that they're balanced properly
and their season properly. You shouldn't really have to ask
that they should be delicious from the jump. You shouldn't
(09:34):
really have to think about season for sure. Yeah. Well,
speaking of restaurants, coming up, we have Danielle cusin Itch
who's going to be on the show, and she actually
had a really popular wine bar in San Francisco, right
and it was going gangbusters during the pandemic. You were
(09:54):
out there. What was the story, Yeah, So, so it's
it's a really really interesting, very very popular wine bar
and it was four blocks away from way Fair Taburn,
my restaurant in the Financial District. And it's just so
sad to kind of hear these stories where, you know, restaurants,
because people put all their money and all their heart
and all their soul into these places that the public
(10:15):
just love, and it really becomes like an important meeting
place where you know, events are celebrated and milestones or
you know, or are toasted too, and and the and
and if people can't respect in the community, then they
start to damage your restaurant. Like, it doesn't really happen
to my restaurants that much, but occasionally we do get
tagged um with spray paint on the outside and we
have to clean the building from time to time. But
(10:36):
it's always sad to hear these stories. But this is
restaurant reality. This is this happens. Yeah, well we're getting
some restaurant reality here in a bit, quick break and
we come back. We have Danielle Kazins on two Dudes
in the kitchen. All right, we're back at two dudes
in the kitchen. Wells Adams teller floor and seting out
with you. And we have now on the show, Danielle
(10:59):
cus Niche. How are you, I'm good? How are you
really good? Um? We're sad to hear that your wine
bar in San Francisco is closing. Well, the parklets closing.
The wine bar is not closing. Oh thank God, so
tell us what happened, because I was I was reading
that there was like some vanilists. It's been a long road,
to be honest with you. We opened the parklet in
(11:20):
March of twenty one. We've had a bunch of small
vandalisms break ins, but on New Year's Eve of last year,
we had a person fully break into it. While I
was out of town. I got a call from the
fire department down the street that it had been destroyed
and the guy, over the course of multiple hours, basically
dismantled it. We had to it took us about a
(11:43):
month to rebuild it. So that was that. We reopened
it again in January version two. But over the course
of the last year, just keeps getting broken into, keeps
getting vandalized. We keep trying to find ways to lock
it down even better, but it just seems like if
there's a will, there's a way, and they'll get into somehow.
So the park Let phenomenon, you know, was our outdoor
(12:06):
dining space during the pandemic, and so grateful for the
opportunity to pivot and have something to pivot too instead
of having you know, occupancy ruling for a while and
then at least, you know, having the outdoor space felt
so positive because people were cool with it. You know,
It's like at least they could go out to dinner
and and kind of sit outside and feel like they
(12:28):
were you know, socially distancing and still enjoying themselves at
the same time, and such such an uplifting thing. And
now I feel like, especially in New York right where
the park let phenomenon has really become you know, uh,
the new sort of um additional dining room. So it's
almost like opening up a restaurant inside of a restaurant
you already open at our restaurant way for a tavern
(12:49):
around the corner from from Wine Society. UM, we luckily
get a chance to take over UM leads door if Avenue,
so we have an additional eight seats outside. But that
park let, I'm telling you like it. I love it,
and then I kind of hate it because we would
just have to break it down every single night and
like loaded up into the main dining room on the floor.
So you have to break it down every night, set
(13:10):
up every single day, and kind of do this thing
over and over again. And I think, you know, having
this sort of vulnerability because you want to make it nice,
you want to put some money into it, but you
literally have part of your dining room sitting out unprotected
for us. Like I don't know if you've actually seen
or the parklet in person, but we turned it into
a living room. That parklet has to fireplaces, four chandeliers,
(13:31):
all the furniture is really nice and swanky and um,
I mean I have probably spent a total of posts
on this between building it, rebuilding it. Same thing. You know,
then you look at the labor dollars because we have
to do the same thing. We put all the furniture out,
we break it all down on the days and it's raining.
(13:53):
It's not super usable it is because it has a
roof on it. But you know the same thing where
we have to bring in the furniture or put it inside.
So if it is raining and we're not able to
utilize it, we still have to find a way to
like tuck it away or put it out there. And um,
you know ours we have these big boards that go
over the front of it. There's like master locks. I mean,
it's a whole production to set it up and break
(14:14):
it down every day. Um, and it it's it's sad
because I do really like the parklet phenomena. I mean,
it reminds me of Europe. I spend a lot of
time in Europe, and it's a very European outdoor dining vibe.
So you're going to break it down and then not
reopen the parklet outside, And I think a lot of
restaurant tours are kind of moving past that because it is,
(14:34):
um you know, a lot of extra labor, right because
you have to have extra wait staff on on board.
Do you feel like you're happy to put it behind
you with all the you know, damage that kind of
came along with it, and just move forward. What you got?
Mixed feelings, big time mixed feelings. Um. You know, it's
been a really special place to a lot of people.
You know, I've got this group of ladies that are
(14:55):
in their eighties and nine years old that come every
single Tuesday and sit out there. They have a stand
reservation they have for almost two years. Um, they're they're
every Tuesday at five o'clock. Um. And so it's been
a really special place. We've got a lot of incredible memories. UM.
Like I said, you should probably come check it over
if you're still in San Francisco, before we break it down. UM,
it's a cool space. It's a really really unique space,
(15:17):
and so part of its heartbreaking. UM, you know, I
put I personally designed it, helped build it, do all
the things. So putting it behind me, it's there's a
love hate relationship with it. UM. I will definitely be
happy not to worry about it being broken into. But
I'm gonna, you know, from a revenue standpoint, miss the space. UM,
seeing the expression on people's faces when they're just wowed
(15:39):
by it. Well, and and for a lot of people
who are listening to this, because it was a phenomenon
that you know, was taking place coast to coast as
the answer to the pandemic when restaurants could open, but
they can only open with outdoor dining. And then you
know a lot of restaurants who didn't even necessarily have
the outdoor dining started figure out what they could do
(16:00):
to build a dining room quickly, and they they were
anointed as a parklet, right, and it's like this outdoor
kind of cafe space that was designed and built. Um,
you know, the first generation, we're just sort of kind
of crude. And then people started put some money into it,
and they and they became like really really nice and
so right now our revenue, you know, a way for
top room is better than it wasn't two thousand nineteen
(16:22):
because of the additional seating capacity we have outside. And
so I I'd give another shot, to be honest with you,
before I'd before I'd break it down and just try
to figure out how to you know, set a better
mousetrap for someone who wants to vandalize it, right, I mean,
like better security security cameras, you know, um, private security
guards like whatever. It would just you know, keep your
(16:42):
protect your revenue and protect your investment. But San Francisco
loves it. I mean it's such a beautiful idea. I
mean it's just like beautiful creativity. It feels fun. Um,
it's a great spot downtown, the financial district. I'm glad
we're neighbors um around the corner. It's a good neighborhood
to be in. And uh, I don't know, if I
were you, I would the towel. It's tough. I mean,
outside of hiring private security, I don't really know how
(17:05):
much more we could do. I mean, it's like Fort
Knox as much as it possibly can be being able
to have it open at night or during the day. Um,
we'll see. I've had a lot of of course, a
lot of support post um the articles coming out about
it closing, and I have a meeting with the city
who is trying to convince me not to close it
(17:26):
down as well. So we'll see what happens. But you know,
as of now, it's just you know, we'll see, We'll
see what happens. And connecting with your your city representative,
I think is a really important way to take to
think about that from a security standpoint, because you could
just say, listen, we pay taxes here. You know, it's
like where where are the police, you know, protecting my
business that contributes to the community, like help, And so
(17:48):
I would definitely, you know, give that a shot. We
would miss it. Yeah. I think that that's part of
the bigger discussion, is the fact that it's not this
isn't just about my part, that about what's happening to me.
It's about what's happening all over the city and to
a lot of small business our businesses in general, and
we need to find a way to deal with the
bigger issue at hand. UM. And I think that that
(18:10):
is what's been important to me to shed light on
this situation versus um versus just being about my business.
I wanted to talk to you about your business and
what you do, which is you are a wine expert
and I am not an expert in anything, especially with wine.
And we were talking earlier about like kind of like
the dues and does when you go to restaurants and stuff,
do you have advice for how to order like the
(18:33):
right bottle of wine when you go out and are celebrating. Yeah,
I mean I think that that if you're not an expert,
I think that that's when you lean on the experts.
You know. That's what we're here to do, and we're
here to help. We're here to make recommendations. Um. You
know are my wine bar. You know, we have bottles
of wine that started thirty two dollars and we have
bottles of line that are over ten tho dollars a bottle. Um.
(18:55):
But I think when you're going out and if you're
it doesn't matter what price point you're looking in, you know,
talk to the team. Talk to the team. That's what
we're here to do because we can make the recommendations
for you. Um, you know, and that's how you learn.
You know, you can talk to them about what you
like to drink, what you enjoy about certain wines, which
you don't like about certain ones. And that is we're
educated to be able to help guide you in the
(19:17):
right direction, no matter what price points in And I
think the wine the wine journey is always really interesting
when when people are approached with a wine list at
a restaurant, because sometimes you can be really daunting. And
I think in a lot of ways it's a name
brand oriented at first. Is it a label that you recognize? Right?
And I always tell people to really, you know, focus
on the grape first. Right, So if you really like
(19:38):
fall in love with something, fall in love with Cab,
fall in love with Pino, fall in love with Zen,
fall in love with super tuscan you know, fall in
love with you know, with with French burgundies, fall in
love with with a specific grape vital and then explore
like a region and and and and try your hardest
to take really good notes or take pictures with your camera,
and that way you can kind of build up a
memory bank of things that you really really like it.
(20:00):
If you love something to pick up a case of it.
You know, it's always really nice to have you a
good talking point at a cocktail party at your house,
or if you open up a bottle by the fireplace
at your house of like a wine that's got a
specific story about something fun. Yeah, absolutely, I mean I
definitely think also like try things you've never heard of.
I think that's the only way that you learn and
you get to explore your palette. Okay, so everybody that
(20:20):
at home, you know who loves a really good glass
of wine, and it's always sort of you know, figuring
out what they want to serve for a dinner party
or how they want to build a wine collection from scratch,
Like what would be your kind of go to? We
don't have to like talk specificity with like brands or whatever,
but like if you had to build a wine collection
(20:42):
from scratch, red and white, what would what your go to?
What do you have to have? That's yeah, I mean
you've got to mix it up. I mean, if you're
starting from scratch, you start with what you like, you know,
with red and white. If you like Italian wines, start
with Italian wines instead of exploring US Spain or you know,
or France, and um, but I think you've got to
(21:04):
have the staples. You know, California, Italy, France, Spain, Portugal.
Portugal is one on a lot of people's list, and
I think that should be on more people's list. U.
I do love Portuguese wines. But start smalling, grow, you know,
don't don't overthink it that you have to have everything.
Building a wine collection takes a lot of a lot
of time. But um, start with what you love. Well,
(21:25):
it's what about you, man? What do you what do
you like to drink wine? Is it wet? It's it
tastes like wine. I did actually have someone asked me
for a wet wine one time at one Yeah, those
ones are better than the dry ones for sure. Uh.
But it's funny because Sarah and I have different We
both like red wine, but I'm more of like a
(21:47):
peano noir guy. And then she likes a big gun.
She likes a like a big cab or like a
like a high alcohol content zinfandel. I call them slutty wines. Yeah, yeah,
my wife likes slowly wine. That makes that makes total
Tell everyone when they need to go to visit your
eyes store. San Francisco, Wyant society is for the our
(22:07):
elate Merchant Street in the financial district. YEP, it's four
blocks away from a wayfair tavern, so you know, pop
pop around the corner comes to us. Yeah, I would
just say the other night you had a good time. Yeah,
we had always Yeah, Oh thank you for that's where
we are twelve years old. I know, I know, I've
been in this location for twelve years. In February, congratulations
(22:29):
and and heartbreaking here about your parklet. But I definitely
wouldn't let them win. I would. I would keep at
it and just kind of build a better mousetrap or
put better security cameras upward and anything you can do
just to kind of keep the vibrancy of the neighborhood open,
because I think it's really important to not let them win.
You know, we have to because I think restaurants our culture.
I think restaurants, restaurants make up the city without a question,
(22:54):
and and so we in specificly in San Francisco, really
pride ourselves on great hospitality and great food and beverage
and great restaurants and great you know, restaurant society. I'd
say at it because you're very valued member of the community,
that's for sure. Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you,
We thank you for being on the show. Danielle, good
luck with everything. And next of them up there, I'm
I'm coming in. Yeah, and I'm bringing my wife, who
(23:17):
like slutty wines perfect. My best friend likes the same.
So bye you guys, take care well. I learned a
lot about wine. And you know, I hope this podcast
gets popular enough that we can go to her store
and um order that ten thousand dollar one. I think
we will. Man. I enjoy getting together with you every
(23:38):
week and talking about food and culture and restaurants and
yummy stuff and and we're getting really really good guests
in and I think we're taking off Two Duds in
the Kitchen. And if you guys listening out there and
haven't rated our show, that would be awesome if you
could go do that five stars, leave us a review.
Any questions you have, we can answer them there, and uh,
thanks for tuning in. We'll see guys next week. Thanks later, Tyler.
(23:58):
Al Right, guys, thanks for listening while us on Instagram
at two Dudes in the Kitchen, make sure to write
us a review and leave us five stars. We'll take
that and we'll see you guys next time, See you
next time.
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