February 1, 2024 • 35 mins
Get ready for an intoxicating good time!
Tyler and Wells welcome Paul Feinstein to chat about upping your cocktail game with recipes from Paul's new book, "Italy Cocktails: An Elegant Collection of Over 100 Recipes Inspired by Italia."
Impress your guests with the recipe for the Imaginary Friend cocktail, what you need to set up a good home bar, and the simple way to make multiple variations of the Negroni that will make you look like a pro and raise everyone's spirits!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's Two Dudes in a Kitchen with Tyler Florence.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
And Wells Adams, an iHeartRadio podcast. All right, welcome in,
do another episode of Two Dudes in a Kitchen. It's
Wells Adams and Tyler Florence hanging out with you talking
about everything food. But not today, No, no, not today, Tyler.
We are going to be talking about something I know
way too much about, and that is booze.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Are you excited? Yeah, listen, I'm really excited about that.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Like it's you know, some people like dry January, some
people like damn January.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Like, I'm like, whatever, Yeah, I've never done that.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Do you do you take a month off from time
to time?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I don't. But we talked about it a couple episodes
ago where I said I wanted to drink with purpose.
I'm not just going to drink frivolously, just like have
a beer and for no reason, then have a hangover
the next day. So I've done pretty good, like I haven't.
I went to a wedding, so of course I had,
you know, I cheers the bride and groom and that
was kind of it. And I might have gone and
(00:56):
played golf and had a beer, but that was really it.
And so, yeah, I really want to focus on drinking
when it really really matters.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Yeah, me too, And so I think that's always kind
of a good point. But if we're talking about cocktails,
let's go. I think that's such a creative outlet. Obviously,
in the restaurants, we put a tremendous amount of effort
into making our mixology program, you know, some of the
best in the city, and I'm excited about talking about today.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I actually wanted to talk to you about that because
it's something that I've found every really good restaurant, you know,
usually is not ready for you when you get there.
And that's okay, as long as you can go to
the bar and get a drink beforehand, and you can
kind of I don't know, there's a barometer of how
good the meal is going to be by how good
your mixologist is. Is it something that you really really
(01:40):
think about when opening up a restaurant. We need to
have a good bartender.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
I mean, it's part of the cast of people that
we consider top tier management. Right, So we have a
beverage director who oversees our entire wine program, who is
just phenomenal, David Robie. And then we have a series
of bartenders and they all have to pass mustard. They
have to be just fantastic and creative. Now we have
this really kind of fun discipline when and this might
(02:08):
be kind of a fun inside baseball thing to share
how we make cocktails at our restaurants, which is kind
of fun, but yeah, like the MEAs and plas has
to be spectacular. You have to know how to make
a really good balanced cocktail. We start up with the martini, like,
can you get the viscosity, can you get a few little,
you know, pieces of ice across the top of the pond?
(02:28):
Is a crystal clear? Is it cravable? Is it one
of those things? Can you make a perfect simple cocktail?
And then when it comes to creativity of making just
like crazy stuff, that's where it gets a lot of fun.
That's where I think the collective creative spirit of our
whole team really starts to shine because we go deep
with it, like the names of the cocktails, the sub ingredients,
(02:49):
the main ingredients, the alcohol that kind.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Of goes into it. It's fun. It's like writing recipes,
it's like cooking with food, but just with alcohol.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, you know. I mean, there obviously is Somalia's at
every restaurant that pays the food with the wine that
they've got. But I also think that there is a
world in which you can pair food with really really
good cocktails. And those are the restaurants that I really
love to go to because I can't just drink wine
all day. I'm gonna have the worst headache the next day.
But when I talk to a bartender, like especially at
(03:16):
a really good restaurant, I'll say, like, listen, I'm going
to probably get the steak or I'm going to get
the whatever it is. What do you suggest I drink
with this? And I found that the really really really
good restaurants are the bartenders who are like really really
know their stuff and compare really great meals with amazing cocktails.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
And the new big trend is low alcohol cocktails or mocktails.
And so we went to Alinia in Chicago, which is
Michelin three star, fantastic restaurant, and it was just one
of those nights that I just like, I had an
early flight, and I'm like, you know, especially when you
go to big, heavy tasting menu like that, like they're
literally going to put about a gallon of booze into
(03:56):
you on top of all the spectacular food.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
I'm like, I just don't feel like drinking tonight.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
But I just thought that was the smartest choice because
people were sitting with have the wine pairing, and then
one of the person at the table we were with
also had the non alcoholic pairing, and I thought our
drinks were better, Yeah, because there was just like spectacular
tea based drinks which are really really nice, and then
interesting juices and then non alcoholic wines and then sparkling
(04:22):
like low alcoholicm boochas, and we're kind of pairing with stuff,
and I think that's kind of the way of the future.
There's definitely a big kind of pullback with everybody just
boozing up all the time. It just doesn't feel like
the thing to do right now, Yeah, I think, and
with that you kind of open up a whole new
world of just like delicious drinks that don't have to
have alcohol totally.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Well, I'm excited to see what our guest has to
say about all of that, because today is going to
be cocktail focused, especially from Italy. Our guest, Paul Feinstein,
has a book out called Italy Cocktails, an elegant collection
of over a hundred recipes inspired by Italia. We were
excited to die into this and see how this is
going to fit in our new intentional drinking outlook for
(05:05):
twenty twenty four. When we come back, Paul will be
with us stick around on Two Dudes in a Kitchen.
Welcome back to Two Dudes in the Kitchen. Very excited
about this episode because we get to kind of depart
away from food and talk about something that I know
way too much about, which is making drinks. I'm very
excited to have on the show. Paul Feinstein, Thank you
(05:28):
so much for coming on. Man, how you doing, I'm great.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Thank you so much for having me. Before we get started, well,
I just want to say we actually have a very
good mutual friend Danielle Udt. Yeah, I know you were
on your the show with on Hulu. He and I.
You and I are very very time. We wrote a
cookbook together, and I just wanted to say that we
have that in common.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Danielle is one of an present company excluded. He is
one of the nicest people I have ever met in
the television industry. That is a chef. Either you were
amazing as well. But he's such a sweetheart of a man.
And I think we did Best in Dough together on Hulu,
(06:09):
and it was his first TV show, so I feel
like he hadn't he hadn't been spoiled yet by by
Hollywood in the industry. But he is one of my
favorite people in the world. And if you are in
Los Angeles or I think they've got a new restaurant
in Dallas, they're going everywhere. Pizzana is one of my
favorite pizza places anywhere. Yes, thank you so much for
(06:29):
for bringing him up. He is a he's a mention
a man.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
What's the place Pizzana?
Speaker 4 (06:34):
There's a bunch of locations. But yeah, he's like my
brother and I just love him. And I was so
excited that you guys got to do that show together.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Yeah, it was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
He was.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
He was just the best. If he if his if
his English was just a little bit better, they would
have never hired me. The only reason why I was
there is because I could read prompter just a little
bit better than Daniellie. But I'm so excited to kind
of continue this trend of Italy. And it was just
last week we had Lydia on the show talking about
(07:06):
you know, her amazing Italian restaurants and Italian cookbooks and
being on PBS for twenty five years. And now we
have Paul on the show. And you've got a new
cookbook out called Italy Cocktails, which, by the way, I
went through over the holiday season and made a bunch
of these. This is such a fun cookbook and you
know what, it's the perfect size for your bar as well.
(07:28):
It's it's a little bit smaller than a normal cookbook,
which I really really appreciated. I don't know if that's
what you were thinking when you did it, but it
works perfectly in my bar.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
Yeah, it's it's obviously looks great on a coffee table.
They did HarperCollins did it an amazing job with the design.
It's got that die cut in on the hardcover on
the front. But yeah, it obviously it's we It is
a thought around the bar card and it is the
perfect size. It just like it fits right there. It
doesn't you know, we all need a lot of bottle
(07:58):
space and so it doesn't take out much, which is good.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
But you've got a lot of recipes in here, and
like it is a very very dense recipe book, which
I love, and I do love Italian cocktails. I think
the most out of it. Whenever I go over to Europe.
It is the place where I feel like I'm getting
the best cocktails. Do you have a favorite cocktail in
(08:22):
this book? Or is it like your kids and you
can't choose one?
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Like? Are you a hardcore and a Groni guy?
Speaker 4 (08:27):
No, I do actually have a favorite. But what I
would say is it's so interesting for you to say
what you just said was because the Italian cocktail culture
really wasn't a thing until about ten or fifteen years ago,
like outside of like classic hotel bars, it was really
dedicated to tourists. But it's become a much bigger deal
in Italy where Italian ingredients were being used all over
(08:50):
the world in every cocktail imaginable. I mean, you can't
do how many cocktails can you do without vermouth? You know?
It just and that's Italian. So yeah, so back to
your question, is uh my favorite? And this sort of
ties into that because it's I I tend to say
anything that has Italian ingredients can be used to become
an Italian cocktail, and my favorite recipe in the book
(09:11):
is actually the very last recipe in the book, and
it comes from a Mexican restaurant in downtown La called Damion,
which if you haven't been, is amazing. And I was
looking at their menu and it was. It was right
towards the end of researching this book and writing this book,
and I see this, this recipe for or not a recipe,
but I see this cocktail called an Imaginary Friend. It has
(09:32):
yola mescal, It has carpano bianca, which is an Italian
remove it has doan blanc removeth, which is French, and
it has sailors gent and liqueur, which is this like
citrusy liqueur, and and it's this like beautiful clear cocktail.
And I just took one sip and it was it
like mesmerized me. And now I had been drinking nothing
but Italian cocktails for months researching this book, and this
(09:55):
is the one that I just like, I had to
have it in the book. I immediately, you know, I called
their publicist and I got some photos and I was like,
give me the recipe because I have to include it. It
It blew my mind. It was so nice and silky
and a little bit sweet and smoky. It was. It's
a perfect cocktail perfect.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Is it better than a like a traditional negroni.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Well, it's different because it a traditional dagroni uses gin uh,
it uses campari and sweet vermouth, and this is sort
of it's kind of a crisper vermouth. It it uses
mescal instead of gin. There's no compari, so you could
sort of sell the sailors Gentian liqueur in there instead.
And so it's sort of it's not a traditional negroni
(10:39):
in any way to perform. Its not even a traditional
mezcal lagrony, but it kind of has that profile. But
it's just so so smooth, it's wonderful.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Do you have Is there a garnish for it?
Speaker 4 (10:51):
Yeah? You can use either like a pineapple guavo or
like a finger lime and you just sort of you
want to just like place it right on top of
a big ice chunk, and it's just it just gives
us a little bit of color to this super clear
drink that is just beautiful.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
What it's kind of interesting too, because the negroni traditionally
is kind of like a pre dinner drink, right, yes,
and then you know you putting at the end of
the recipe book is kind of interesting. Is it a
drink because you switched out the gin for the mescal?
Is it a drink that becomes no longer a pre
dinner drink, but maybe a dinner drink or even an
(11:26):
aperteve or a Digestif no, you.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
Know what the thing is, you could still use this.
I would still drink this drink as an apparative. The way,
the way I sort of break the book up is
I talk about the history of Italian cocktails. I tell
you how to set up your own bar at home,
but then I have a whole section on apperativo, which
is the traditional like drinking before dinner period of time
in Italy. And then I talk about digestibo, which is
(11:53):
after dinner drinking. And then I have a whole section
on sort of like experimental Italian cocktails. And that's where
this this drink fall. Otherwise I would have thrown it
in with the apparativo section, but it really fit into
this group because there's all these interesting drinks that are
that are just very off on guard and different than
what you would traditionally think of as Italian.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Let's talk about setting up the bar, because this is
a very very important thing, and so the question I
get asked a lot because I play an dipshit bartender
on TV, and I don't know if I really have
an answer for it. My bar is set up with
what I like to drink, but walk us through kind
of like I guess the ABC's of setting up a
good solid bar well, so.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
I guess it depends on what you like, obviously, but
you want a good bar cart. A good bar cart
usually has two shelves that are you know when the
bottom shelf should be high, or actually I should say
the shelf itself should be high so it can accommodate
tall bottles at the bottom. You definitely need to get
a good cocktail shaker that usually comes with a spoon.
(12:56):
A lot of times cocktail shakers come with a little
top that you can use as a measuring tool. But
I like to have a jigger. A jigger is sort
of a measuring tool that can come in half ounce
in one ounce or one ounce and two ounce, like
you sort of flip it up so down from one
or the other. Most drinks are usually in this sort
of one ounce or half ounce measurement, so it's easy
to use a jigger to get really precise measurements. You
(13:19):
want to mix in glass obviously, so really hard pint
glass that won't break when you're when you're combining it
with a with a shaker, so that it doesn't shatter
on you. I'm sure you've had plenty of experiences where
that's gone the other way. You want to have strainers.
Strainers are good, obviously a lot of cocktail shakers come
(13:39):
with their own strainers which are really nice. But if
you really want to get like fresh juices that are muddled,
you want like a really fine mesh strainer so that
you don't get any of the pulp or any of
the seeds or anything else into your cocktail. A good
barspoons obviously important for stirring, but it's also a measuring
tool for a lot of ingredients. Cocktail picks and stirs
so that you can, you know, put your garnishes on things.
(14:02):
There's a lot of really cool ones that I recommend
in the book. There's a company called Love and Victory
that makes these beautiful, beautiful cocktail picks that are that
are really fun. And then you need glassware. I guess
you really need to have like, uh, you know, good
glass war like old fashioned glasses and Colins glasses and
Nick and Nora glasses, and then then there's the liquor.
So for a book like this, you really have to
(14:24):
have gin. You have to have campari, you have to
have vermouth, booth, dry and sweet. You want to have
a good mix that you want prosecco, you want bitters,
uh syrups, and you know all the all the different
kind of bitter things that you can you can buy it.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
At Amorrows too. For at the end of your eyes.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
Yeah, I mean I have I think I have like
seven or eight on my bar cart uh different tomorrows
and tomorrow. You know, they're they're made in every region
of Italy, and so they're always there's bitter ones and
sweet ones and and smoky ones, and they're they're all
herbaceous ones. They're all wonderful. But you know, you got
to figure out what's right for you. Not a lot
(15:04):
of vodka in this book, not a lot of brandy.
There's some tequila in mescal, but not a ton It's
mostly I would say, whiskey, gin, prosecco, campari. And then
the compari offshoots like select and aparol and.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Liqueurs like that Aperaol's fantastic.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Yeah, Aperol's wonderful. And then and then their Select which
is sort of their competitor. They were made one year
apart nineteen nineteen and nineteen twenty, and they sort of
can they serve the same purpose. You can make a
select sprit, so you can make a Negroni with Select,
or you can use Apera or you can use Compari.
They're kind of interchangeable. They don't taste that different from
each other, but there's a little more bitterness to the Select,
which I really like.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yeah, And Aperol sprits in the summertime it is nice.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
It is nice. Also a pre dinner drink, which is wonderful.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yeah, and it's definitely having a resurgence too. I feel
like they put a big campaign behind Apparols versus in
the last couple of years. And I can tell you
that they did because they paid me a lot of
money to promote, which I appreciate.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
You're one of the lucky ones that got on the
Afarol ambassadorship.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Yeah, I did. They sent me.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
They actually they sent me to up to San Francisco,
Tyler for the Outside Lands Festival, and I had to
make a bunch of aparal sprits is for like everybody,
and we filmed it and it was it was so
much fun, Paul. One of the things I wanted to
talk to you about, which is something that like, I
feel really passionate about as as you know, a bartender,
(16:30):
but things that I think that really kind of makes
your drink get to the next level are your simple syrups.
And I really like to infuse my simple syrups. And
I wonder if that's something that you do as a
bartender and as a guy who's you know, made this
amazing bartender recipe book.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
So it's a good question. I I don't, And the
reason I don't is because I just don't have time.
I just like, I just don't have time. So a
lot of you know, like, look, it's really popular right now.
There's a lot of different methods. There's a lot of
really advanced bartending techniques and I put them in the book,
by the way, and you can make your own simple
(17:07):
serious there's recipes for that in the book. But I
really don't. I just easier to buy stuff and there
are people that make them that are way better than me,
and I just it's really a time thing. But there
are you know, look, I'm not a I'm an expert
at the world of Italian cocktails, but there are bartenders
who are masters of this stuff and they're bottling it
(17:28):
and it's better than anything I could do anyway, So
I prefer to but leave it to the experts.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
I'm a firm, staunch believer in the all the best
cocktails are about three ingredients. And then once you start
getting a complicated then I don't know. I get lost
in the weeds wondering what your favorite simple drinks are.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
It's a negroni. And the reason I love in nigroni is, well,
there's many reasons, but one is that the nigrony is
the simplest drink there is. There's three ingredients, they're all
equal parts. There's one ounce of them of compari, there's
one ounce of remouth, and there's one ounce of gin.
And you don't even need a cocktail shaker. You can
pour it all into a glass. You put a giant
(18:11):
Cuba dice in there, and you stir and it's done
and it takes ten seconds. And then what's great about
the neigrony is that you replace the gin with bourbon,
and you have a bolevardya. You replace the gin with prosecco,
and you have a negroni'spaliato. You replace the gin with
mezcal and you have a mescal in neigrony. You add
juice ty balsamic vinegar to a regular neigroni and you
(18:33):
have an amazing tardy like tar tangy kind of offshoot
of a neigroney. It's so simple, like those three basically
the base ingredients of campari and vermouth. You can just
use those two and add so many different variations of
it sweet remove or dry remove just to make you
can make like fifteen to twenty different drinks just on
(18:54):
those two basic ingredients.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
You can batch it really well too, right.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
And you can batch it like I teach these classes
like it Italy, where I teach people how to make
a nigroni in four or five different ways, and we
batch like, you know, fifty drinks with just the two
base ingredients of the vermouth and the compari. Because you
can then you can just make all these other drinks
right in front of people really quickly, really easily, and
serve them up. I hate when a bartender takes ten
(19:19):
minutes to make a drink. It drives me insane. I
think it's dumb for business because you can't poor as many.
I just think it's like, I think it's bad all around.
Nobody likes it except for maybe the bartender at the
end because they think they created something magical, and look
to them, it is magical. But I think it's bad
for business, it's bad for the customer, and it's just
the pain of the ass. So I love the nigronie
(19:41):
because the gronie is like the perfect template for so
many easy, fast, drinkable cocktails.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
I offended any bartenders out there, No.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
I think you're one hundred percent right, Like if you're
never been a bartender and it's like, mixology is not
something you do, but you do have people over Paul
it just showed you how to make like seven drinks
and everyone can remember what he just said. It's you're
just you're just replacing one thing for another thing, and
all of a sudden, you're like this huge mixologist. And
(20:12):
I think that that's I think that one of the
reasons why we started this show is to kind of
like explain that like cooking, yes, it is very uh complex,
but it's also very simple. It's really just a couple
things you need to become good at. And I think
that bartending is the exact, uh, the exact same thing
we were talking about before you came on the show.
(20:33):
And I don't know how you feel about this, but
I definitely feel very strongly about this. I know how
good my food is going to be at a restaurant
with how good their drink is that they made while
I was waiting for my table.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
Yeah, I I you know. Service. Anyone who's in the
restaurant is knows that all these things go together, and
service is a huge component of it. Timing is a
huge component of it. So if you can't figure out
like how to grease those wheels properly and get everything
time properly and not make people, you know, wait too
long or interrupting at the wrong times, or you know,
(21:06):
whatever it may be, I totally agree with you. I think,
like you know right away that this is a well
oiled machine if they get that right right off the bat,
I totally agree, totally agree.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Do you have any hot takes when it comes to cocktails, Like, Yeah,
I don't like that. I know it's popular. I can't
stand it.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
I'm trying not to offend it. Well, my hot take
on bartender's taking ten minutes to make it drink, that's.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Well, that's not a hot take. I feel like everything those.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Days are over with it, right like that, like the
mixologists with like the twisty up mustache and like you know,
and they're seeing twenty and they weigh their drink and
the look like they have eye droppers and stuff like,
those days are over.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Well, so here's a bartender.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
All right, So here's my hot take, and it's sort
of similar. It's just that so there's all these new
methods and techniques that bartenders are using their their rotovapping.
They're fat washing, they're confusing. And if you're like a
master bartender and you really know all these different liqueurs
(22:09):
and all these you know, the average the master bartend
will know the difference between you know, and apparall sprits
and a select sprits and a hugo and the other
like sprits drinks. Like they'll know because those taste profiles
are you know, they're ten percent different. But my hot
take is that nobody cares. The average customer has no
(22:29):
idea that you've done any of those things. They really
just want to get drunk, and the faster you can
do it, easier you can do it. They just don't know.
Like it's it's not like wine, like the the delta
of like good and bad wine is so white versus
like a good or bad cocktail. It's just not that wide.
(22:52):
Like it just doesn't It's just it's just not as complicated,
I would say. And that's my hot take because I
think all this stuff that these these guys that are doing,
and a lot of more geniuses that are making really
fascinating drinks, and I think the really upper echelon of
a really high end drinkers will appreciate it. But ninety
nine percent of people don't give a They don't care.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Tyler, what's your hot take when it comes to booze.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Well, you know, when we put together a season's cocktail list, right,
we have this kind of fun methodology which seems to
be unique to me, but I like it, and we
always discover things that are kind of new and at
the high art of it all. Listen, if we're making
cocktails at home, I'm with you, it's got to be
simple and whatever. But I think in a restaurant to
(23:37):
have cocktails that are commercially competitive, Like you've got a
cocktail program that sits at the higher echelon of restaurants
in your city.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
It's Michelin caliber kind of stuff.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
There's things that you want to kind of play around with,
or more importantly, there's professionals that want to dabble in
some of those things. So my thing is, I always
want to taste the labor. If I can't taste the labor,
we're scratch it out. You're not going to fat wash
the roasted corn with bourbon if I could, if I
can't taste it, and it doesn't make a big deal.
Now you like fat washing, I think is a spectacular
(24:10):
technique that adds a level of like mouthfeel to cocktails,
which is beautiful if done appropriately. So I think there's
kind of been given and take in a lot of
those techniques. I don't think every drink needs a big technique.
We are big fans of batching cocktails because I think
some of that, Like there's our mixologist team has a
full time person in the kitchen that just doesn't meets
(24:31):
and plots for cocktails. That's their full time culinary job.
So when our bartender team's in, all the dehydration's done,
all the citrus chips, the pear chips, all these things
are kind of done, like the green olives or stuff
with blue cheese moose by hand, which is fabulous, right,
and so.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
The guy stuffing them because I used to have that
job and my hands smelled horrible forever. They still do, but.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Like a little good what Rowford moose inside of a
big Queen Anne olive do?
Speaker 1 (24:58):
It's like, come on, this doesn't get any better.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
And then and the olives are hampitted, right, because if
you buy them commercially, they're they're inconsistent, right, So we
take those moments if you never notice it, but there's
got to be a level of simplicity to it. At
the same time, there are stupid cocktails out there that
way over garnish, right, They that put too much stuff
in it, like they think about the garnish before they
(25:21):
think about the flavor. I'm like, our big thing is,
let's make it taste good first, we'll make it pretty second,
and then we'll give it an appropriate name that's not
some captain of an old fishing chip from eighteen seventy
five and whatever, like nobody cares about that, But the
drink's got to be compelling and really kind of interesting
and I think season specific, right, Like I don't want
(25:41):
you want to take something that feels snugly in the
winter and fresh in the summer. So we kind of
make cocktails that kind of like fall into like two categories.
Either it's a sipper or a slammer, right, And the
slammers are generally kind of fresh and summary and vivacious
and delicious, and then sippers are drinks that you really
want to kind of save her and kind of spin around,
and then we can get like some kind of deep
stuff after that. But there's a process to it.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
I have one other hot take if you are if
you are, if you have a Negronia on your menu
and you're charging twenty three dollars for it, go yourself.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Seven. It's three ingredients, what about twenty seven? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (26:18):
But uh yeah, I'm with you unless there's something really
compelling about that. I think drinks are you know, are
are can be like ridiculously of a price, and I
think it's what I call the bone and the fish, Right,
So if I'm going to go to a restaurant and
I want to have a great meal. And I realized
you just charged me thirty two dollars for a cocktail.
Everything else is terrible. Yeah, I don't care how good
it is. You've just insulted me, and I'm looking for
(26:41):
things to rip apart. So I think you've got to
pricess things accordingly. For sure, I'm with you. That's a
good hot.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
Time, all right, my hot take. I don't like smoky anything.
I don't need it to no, no, no, no no, like
you know how they'll like put small near glass smoke
vanilla and then all well a sudden, it's like I
was at a campfire. I didn't need that. I wanted
to tast drink. Yeah, oh my wife loves it and
(27:07):
much my chagarn but I can't stand it. But I
tell you what you know. You're talking about batching, and Paul,
I was wondering what your thoughts are in this. I
see it on social media a lot, and that's these
freezer door drinks, which is kind of batching out in
one in one bottle and just keeping it in your
freezer door. Do you do you like that or do
you think that's just kind of a lazy bartending.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
No, I think it's totally fine. I honestly whatever makes
it easier that does. Again, like anyone who says they
can tell the difference, usually they're full of shit. They
don't really they really, you really can't. I think it's
it's like a simple easy way to just get things
done faster and easier. I'm all for it. I'm all
for anything gets faster and easier, as long as the
taste quality like stays within that like ninety percent range,
(27:50):
because the averge person's just not gonna know and real quick.
By the way, if you want something that's smoky in
a different way, on page three fifty six of my book,
there's a cocktail that they make. They vape into it
with marijuana and they close it in a bag, so
when you're drinking, you also you also inhale the marijuana smoke.
So that's always a fun drink.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Really.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Yeah, yeah, well that's different.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
That's a different kind of smoke.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
That's yeah, that's different.
Speaker 4 (28:17):
That.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Yeah, that's then anything you bring me to the dinner
table after that's gonna be delicious the way.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
That's a good trick, right, that's a really good trick.
You could regards someone thirty two dollars for that cocktail.
You're like, meals amazing.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Yeah, I just need some maggot cheese and some bread man.
It's they'll be good. Yeah, Paul, thank you so much
for coming on two dudes in the kitchen. I I
really do appreciate all that you do. I really do
love this book. Everyone out there, go if you want
to make amazing Italian cocktails, go check out Italy Cocktails,
an elegant collection of over one hundred recipes inspired by Italia.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
You guys can follow me on at mister Paul Feinstein
on all social media. You know, that's Mr Paul Feinstein
on Instagram or Twitter or ex whatever we're calling it.
I would just say at the end that Italian cocktails
are really the best cocktails in the world. Go out,
make them, drink them, support your local bartenders. Even if
(29:17):
I offended a lot of you, I apologize, But no,
cocktails are great, like they're so They're so fun there
and there's no like one way to do anything. It's
the ultimate fun thing to experiment with because if you
screw it up, you didn't. It's not like screwing up
a big you know, dinner recipe, like you can just
throw it out and try again and do it. And
it's just so easy and fun to play with. And
(29:39):
that this book is great for because there's over one
hundred and I think it's like one hundred and thirty.
I cut like fifty recipes from it, so hopefully they'll
be a second edition. But there it's the cocktail world
is so fun to experiment with, and this book gives
you this sort of template to play around, and I
just it was my pleasure and honor to highlight all
these Italian brands and Italian tenders and bars, and it's
(30:02):
just running by Italy is the love of my life.
And that's all I really want to say.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Beautiful, very cool man.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
Thank you guys so much for having me. I totally
appreciate it. And uh yeah, go make some drinks.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Yeah, some Negroni's last question, what's your favorite meal Italian
meal to pair with a negronie.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
Well, the thing is like, you don't really eat It's
very Italian to me. It's a very talient thing to say,
is that you wouldn't eat a meal with a negroni,
but you would during apperativo. So like it's really good
with like mortadella on some crackers or you know, some saloumi.
I just like really like like really high quality cold
(30:47):
cuts and cheeses, just to sort of the whole point
of the nigroni and the whole point of salty like
snacky foods is to literally scientifically get your stomach ready
to eat dinner. And so anything that's sort of like
olives and you know, salty cheeses and salty meats are
a really good way to do that. That also goes
(31:09):
really well with the negroni. So I would I would
recommend doing that.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
I'll maybe some tin fish tyler.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Yeah, that sounds great.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
And that's the reason I really like Negroney too, because
of like the sweet salty, bitter combination of everything there,
Like the compari, it's so nice with like cheese and
crispy you know, brusquetta and olives and and salumi and
all those kind of wonderful flavors. So I think that's
a perfect pairing as a pre dinner cocktail.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
There are some restaurants that are starting to do cocktail
pairings throughout the meal. There's only one that I know
of in Italy that does it, and they're in their
profile in the book. It's a boys called Locale and Florence.
But look, it's dicey. It's hard to pair a cocktail
menu with a ret with a with a with a
meal because you can get really loaded really quickly. Yeah,
(31:55):
so you gotta.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Be us from time and time. Like we have a
we have a bourbon house from uh Kentucky that's coming
to Miller and Locks and we're doing a bourbon four
course bourbon tasting Menua, which seemed kind of fun. Lots
of smoking meat, lots of but you kind of it's
not just the bourbon itself, because we're gonna crack into
some single age barrel stuff, which is really nice. But
it's like what kind of goes in with that that
would match up? Like one's got like like like a
(32:16):
Porcini liquid base, which is gonna be really nice, you know,
you know, like Porcini and bourbon.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
I mean, it's high concept stuff, but it tastes delicious.
Speaker 4 (32:23):
Would stack. Yeah, it's I think that'll be the next
real frontier for chefs and bartenders getting together to do
things like that where they can actually pair out an
entire meal without getting you like throw up drunk and
but doing it in the way that you can do
it with wine. I think there's a lot of room
for improvement there that I feel like you're going to
(32:44):
see more of that in the in the next few years.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Yeah, we were talking about that before you came on,
and Tyler was saying, you know, one of the big
things is yes, alcoholic drinks, but then you know non
alcoholic pairings that are going with everything and or like
really low out a whole content drinks. I think it's
a good idea.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
I think NA is pointless, but I uh, this doesn't
shock me, but there is at an NA. There's no
NA in my bike. But I think that if you
can do it right and you you know, you think
about a wine pairing, like maybe there's like six glasses
of wine, and if you can match like the alcohol
(33:24):
content with the cocktail that you would with a wine pairing,
that you can kind of hopefully not get something to
throw over at the end of the night, and I
think it'll work really well.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Yeah, Paul, fine scene, Thank you so much for coming on.
Two Dudes in the kitchen. This was a lot of fun.
Speaker 4 (33:37):
Man, Tyler Wells, thank you guys so much for having me.
I really appreciate it. Uh And yeah, go drink some
Italian cocktails and have some fun.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Thank you brother, See you man, that was a lot
of fun.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Man.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
I feel like that guy will forget more about booze
than I'll ever know.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
You know.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
The fun thing about making cocktails, it's one of those
little you know, because we talked from time to time
about these little small magic tricks like totally negret, are
you making Manny's scratch? If you could learn how to
make a couple of cocktails, like whatever your favorite thing is,
and then batch them and then make that refrigerated door drink,
there's nothing more fun than having folks come over and
(34:11):
putting together a cheese plate with some charcoute and stuff
you kind of get from the grocery store.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
That's easy.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
But if you made a cocktail from scratch, they're like,
oh my god, you're a wizard. So I think it's
kind of one of those fun things, especially if you
really love Negroni. I love in Negroni, and I think
it's kind of one of those fun things to play
around with. So make some drinks.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Yeah, I would say this is my advice to everyone
out there, learn how to make an old fashion a
good one. Learn how to make a good negroni, it's
very easy. Learn how to make a Manhattan. Yeah, and
learn how to make a good martini. And if you
can do those things, you're gonna hate hosting parties because
(34:50):
no one's gonna stop asking that. Everyone will continue to
ask you to make drinks, and you get fine and
you get tired of it.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Yeah, but those like five drinks that you just named,
all of them are classics and easy to up and
then very simple, very very simple. But there's nuances with
all that kind of stuff, right, Like you can kind
of mess up with martini if it's out of balance,
and mostly simple drinks are about balance and then and
just kind of taste it and kind of play around
with it.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
You get it right.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
But again, it's like if you've got martinis also to
batched out in your fridge and the only thing you're
doing is just like chilling your ups glass with like
and skewing the olives and pouring it right on top
of them. You can shake it to order, so you
got a little razzal dows in front of folks. But
that's syrupy delicious, you know. Vodka drink with like a
little bit of ice kind of floating across the top
(35:32):
of the pond.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
What's better?
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Oh all right, well I'm gonna have make a drink now.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
I know.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
I said I was gonna you know, selective drinking this year,
but I could do that.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Now's the time.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Yeah, all right, see you buddy. All right, guys, thanks
for listening. Follow us on Instagram at two Dudes in
a Kitchen. Make sure to write us a review and
leave us five stars.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
We'll take that and we'll see you guys next time.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
See you next time.
It's Two Dudes in a Kitchen with Tyler Florence.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
And Wells Adams, an iHeartRadio podcast. All right, welcome in,
do another episode of Two Dudes in a Kitchen. It's
Wells Adams and Tyler Florence hanging out with you talking
about everything food. But not today, No, no, not today, Tyler.
We are going to be talking about something I know
way too much about, and that is booze.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Are you excited? Yeah, listen, I'm really excited about that.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Like it's you know, some people like dry January, some
people like damn January.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Like, I'm like, whatever, Yeah, I've never done that.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Do you do you take a month off from time
to time?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I don't. But we talked about it a couple episodes
ago where I said I wanted to drink with purpose.
I'm not just going to drink frivolously, just like have
a beer and for no reason, then have a hangover
the next day. So I've done pretty good, like I haven't.
I went to a wedding, so of course I had,
you know, I cheers the bride and groom and that
was kind of it. And I might have gone and
(00:56):
played golf and had a beer, but that was really it.
And so, yeah, I really want to focus on drinking
when it really really matters.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Yeah, me too, And so I think that's always kind
of a good point. But if we're talking about cocktails,
let's go. I think that's such a creative outlet. Obviously,
in the restaurants, we put a tremendous amount of effort
into making our mixology program, you know, some of the
best in the city, and I'm excited about talking about today.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I actually wanted to talk to you about that because
it's something that I've found every really good restaurant, you know,
usually is not ready for you when you get there.
And that's okay, as long as you can go to
the bar and get a drink beforehand, and you can
kind of I don't know, there's a barometer of how
good the meal is going to be by how good
your mixologist is. Is it something that you really really
(01:40):
think about when opening up a restaurant. We need to
have a good bartender.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
I mean, it's part of the cast of people that
we consider top tier management. Right, So we have a
beverage director who oversees our entire wine program, who is
just phenomenal, David Robie. And then we have a series
of bartenders and they all have to pass mustard. They
have to be just fantastic and creative. Now we have
this really kind of fun discipline when and this might
(02:08):
be kind of a fun inside baseball thing to share
how we make cocktails at our restaurants, which is kind
of fun, but yeah, like the MEAs and plas has
to be spectacular. You have to know how to make
a really good balanced cocktail. We start up with the martini, like,
can you get the viscosity, can you get a few little,
you know, pieces of ice across the top of the pond?
(02:28):
Is a crystal clear? Is it cravable? Is it one
of those things? Can you make a perfect simple cocktail?
And then when it comes to creativity of making just
like crazy stuff, that's where it gets a lot of fun.
That's where I think the collective creative spirit of our
whole team really starts to shine because we go deep
with it, like the names of the cocktails, the sub ingredients,
(02:49):
the main ingredients, the alcohol that kind.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Of goes into it. It's fun. It's like writing recipes,
it's like cooking with food, but just with alcohol.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, you know. I mean, there obviously is Somalia's at
every restaurant that pays the food with the wine that
they've got. But I also think that there is a
world in which you can pair food with really really
good cocktails. And those are the restaurants that I really
love to go to because I can't just drink wine
all day. I'm gonna have the worst headache the next day.
But when I talk to a bartender, like especially at
(03:16):
a really good restaurant, I'll say, like, listen, I'm going
to probably get the steak or I'm going to get
the whatever it is. What do you suggest I drink
with this? And I found that the really really really
good restaurants are the bartenders who are like really really
know their stuff and compare really great meals with amazing cocktails.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
And the new big trend is low alcohol cocktails or mocktails.
And so we went to Alinia in Chicago, which is
Michelin three star, fantastic restaurant, and it was just one
of those nights that I just like, I had an
early flight, and I'm like, you know, especially when you
go to big, heavy tasting menu like that, like they're
literally going to put about a gallon of booze into
(03:56):
you on top of all the spectacular food.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
I'm like, I just don't feel like drinking tonight.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
But I just thought that was the smartest choice because
people were sitting with have the wine pairing, and then
one of the person at the table we were with
also had the non alcoholic pairing, and I thought our
drinks were better, Yeah, because there was just like spectacular
tea based drinks which are really really nice, and then
interesting juices and then non alcoholic wines and then sparkling
(04:22):
like low alcoholicm boochas, and we're kind of pairing with stuff,
and I think that's kind of the way of the future.
There's definitely a big kind of pullback with everybody just
boozing up all the time. It just doesn't feel like
the thing to do right now, Yeah, I think, and
with that you kind of open up a whole new
world of just like delicious drinks that don't have to
have alcohol totally.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Well, I'm excited to see what our guest has to
say about all of that, because today is going to
be cocktail focused, especially from Italy. Our guest, Paul Feinstein,
has a book out called Italy Cocktails, an elegant collection
of over a hundred recipes inspired by Italia. We were
excited to die into this and see how this is
going to fit in our new intentional drinking outlook for
(05:05):
twenty twenty four. When we come back, Paul will be
with us stick around on Two Dudes in a Kitchen.
Welcome back to Two Dudes in the Kitchen. Very excited
about this episode because we get to kind of depart
away from food and talk about something that I know
way too much about, which is making drinks. I'm very
excited to have on the show. Paul Feinstein, Thank you
(05:28):
so much for coming on. Man, how you doing, I'm great.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Thank you so much for having me. Before we get started, well,
I just want to say we actually have a very
good mutual friend Danielle Udt. Yeah, I know you were
on your the show with on Hulu. He and I.
You and I are very very time. We wrote a
cookbook together, and I just wanted to say that we
have that in common.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Danielle is one of an present company excluded. He is
one of the nicest people I have ever met in
the television industry. That is a chef. Either you were
amazing as well. But he's such a sweetheart of a man.
And I think we did Best in Dough together on Hulu,
(06:09):
and it was his first TV show, so I feel
like he hadn't he hadn't been spoiled yet by by
Hollywood in the industry. But he is one of my
favorite people in the world. And if you are in
Los Angeles or I think they've got a new restaurant
in Dallas, they're going everywhere. Pizzana is one of my
favorite pizza places anywhere. Yes, thank you so much for
(06:29):
for bringing him up. He is a he's a mention
a man.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
What's the place Pizzana?
Speaker 4 (06:34):
There's a bunch of locations. But yeah, he's like my
brother and I just love him. And I was so
excited that you guys got to do that show together.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Yeah, it was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
He was.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
He was just the best. If he if his if
his English was just a little bit better, they would
have never hired me. The only reason why I was
there is because I could read prompter just a little
bit better than Daniellie. But I'm so excited to kind
of continue this trend of Italy. And it was just
last week we had Lydia on the show talking about
(07:06):
you know, her amazing Italian restaurants and Italian cookbooks and
being on PBS for twenty five years. And now we
have Paul on the show. And you've got a new
cookbook out called Italy Cocktails, which, by the way, I
went through over the holiday season and made a bunch
of these. This is such a fun cookbook and you
know what, it's the perfect size for your bar as well.
(07:28):
It's it's a little bit smaller than a normal cookbook,
which I really really appreciated. I don't know if that's
what you were thinking when you did it, but it
works perfectly in my bar.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
Yeah, it's it's obviously looks great on a coffee table.
They did HarperCollins did it an amazing job with the design.
It's got that die cut in on the hardcover on
the front. But yeah, it obviously it's we It is
a thought around the bar card and it is the
perfect size. It just like it fits right there. It
doesn't you know, we all need a lot of bottle
(07:58):
space and so it doesn't take out much, which is good.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
But you've got a lot of recipes in here, and
like it is a very very dense recipe book, which
I love, and I do love Italian cocktails. I think
the most out of it. Whenever I go over to Europe.
It is the place where I feel like I'm getting
the best cocktails. Do you have a favorite cocktail in
(08:22):
this book? Or is it like your kids and you
can't choose one?
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Like? Are you a hardcore and a Groni guy?
Speaker 4 (08:27):
No, I do actually have a favorite. But what I
would say is it's so interesting for you to say
what you just said was because the Italian cocktail culture
really wasn't a thing until about ten or fifteen years ago,
like outside of like classic hotel bars, it was really
dedicated to tourists. But it's become a much bigger deal
in Italy where Italian ingredients were being used all over
(08:50):
the world in every cocktail imaginable. I mean, you can't
do how many cocktails can you do without vermouth? You know?
It just and that's Italian. So yeah, so back to
your question, is uh my favorite? And this sort of
ties into that because it's I I tend to say
anything that has Italian ingredients can be used to become
an Italian cocktail, and my favorite recipe in the book
(09:11):
is actually the very last recipe in the book, and
it comes from a Mexican restaurant in downtown La called Damion,
which if you haven't been, is amazing. And I was
looking at their menu and it was. It was right
towards the end of researching this book and writing this book,
and I see this, this recipe for or not a recipe,
but I see this cocktail called an Imaginary Friend. It has
(09:32):
yola mescal, It has carpano bianca, which is an Italian
remove it has doan blanc removeth, which is French, and
it has sailors gent and liqueur, which is this like
citrusy liqueur, and and it's this like beautiful clear cocktail.
And I just took one sip and it was it
like mesmerized me. And now I had been drinking nothing
but Italian cocktails for months researching this book, and this
(09:55):
is the one that I just like, I had to
have it in the book. I immediately, you know, I called
their publicist and I got some photos and I was like,
give me the recipe because I have to include it. It
It blew my mind. It was so nice and silky
and a little bit sweet and smoky. It was. It's
a perfect cocktail perfect.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Is it better than a like a traditional negroni.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Well, it's different because it a traditional dagroni uses gin uh,
it uses campari and sweet vermouth, and this is sort
of it's kind of a crisper vermouth. It it uses
mescal instead of gin. There's no compari, so you could
sort of sell the sailors Gentian liqueur in there instead.
And so it's sort of it's not a traditional negroni
(10:39):
in any way to perform. Its not even a traditional
mezcal lagrony, but it kind of has that profile. But
it's just so so smooth, it's wonderful.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Do you have Is there a garnish for it?
Speaker 4 (10:51):
Yeah? You can use either like a pineapple guavo or
like a finger lime and you just sort of you
want to just like place it right on top of
a big ice chunk, and it's just it just gives
us a little bit of color to this super clear
drink that is just beautiful.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
What it's kind of interesting too, because the negroni traditionally
is kind of like a pre dinner drink, right, yes,
and then you know you putting at the end of
the recipe book is kind of interesting. Is it a
drink because you switched out the gin for the mescal?
Is it a drink that becomes no longer a pre
dinner drink, but maybe a dinner drink or even an
(11:26):
aperteve or a Digestif no, you.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
Know what the thing is, you could still use this.
I would still drink this drink as an apparative. The way,
the way I sort of break the book up is
I talk about the history of Italian cocktails. I tell
you how to set up your own bar at home,
but then I have a whole section on apperativo, which
is the traditional like drinking before dinner period of time
in Italy. And then I talk about digestibo, which is
(11:53):
after dinner drinking. And then I have a whole section
on sort of like experimental Italian cocktails. And that's where
this this drink fall. Otherwise I would have thrown it
in with the apparativo section, but it really fit into
this group because there's all these interesting drinks that are
that are just very off on guard and different than
what you would traditionally think of as Italian.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Let's talk about setting up the bar, because this is
a very very important thing, and so the question I
get asked a lot because I play an dipshit bartender
on TV, and I don't know if I really have
an answer for it. My bar is set up with
what I like to drink, but walk us through kind
of like I guess the ABC's of setting up a
good solid bar well, so.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
I guess it depends on what you like, obviously, but
you want a good bar cart. A good bar cart
usually has two shelves that are you know when the
bottom shelf should be high, or actually I should say
the shelf itself should be high so it can accommodate
tall bottles at the bottom. You definitely need to get
a good cocktail shaker that usually comes with a spoon.
(12:56):
A lot of times cocktail shakers come with a little
top that you can use as a measuring tool. But
I like to have a jigger. A jigger is sort
of a measuring tool that can come in half ounce
in one ounce or one ounce and two ounce, like
you sort of flip it up so down from one
or the other. Most drinks are usually in this sort
of one ounce or half ounce measurement, so it's easy
to use a jigger to get really precise measurements. You
(13:19):
want to mix in glass obviously, so really hard pint
glass that won't break when you're when you're combining it
with a with a shaker, so that it doesn't shatter
on you. I'm sure you've had plenty of experiences where
that's gone the other way. You want to have strainers.
Strainers are good, obviously a lot of cocktail shakers come
(13:39):
with their own strainers which are really nice. But if
you really want to get like fresh juices that are muddled,
you want like a really fine mesh strainer so that
you don't get any of the pulp or any of
the seeds or anything else into your cocktail. A good
barspoons obviously important for stirring, but it's also a measuring
tool for a lot of ingredients. Cocktail picks and stirs
so that you can, you know, put your garnishes on things.
(14:02):
There's a lot of really cool ones that I recommend
in the book. There's a company called Love and Victory
that makes these beautiful, beautiful cocktail picks that are that
are really fun. And then you need glassware. I guess
you really need to have like, uh, you know, good
glass war like old fashioned glasses and Colins glasses and
Nick and Nora glasses, and then then there's the liquor.
So for a book like this, you really have to
(14:24):
have gin. You have to have campari, you have to
have vermouth, booth, dry and sweet. You want to have
a good mix that you want prosecco, you want bitters,
uh syrups, and you know all the all the different
kind of bitter things that you can you can buy it.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
At Amorrows too. For at the end of your eyes.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
Yeah, I mean I have I think I have like
seven or eight on my bar cart uh different tomorrows
and tomorrow. You know, they're they're made in every region
of Italy, and so they're always there's bitter ones and
sweet ones and and smoky ones, and they're they're all
herbaceous ones. They're all wonderful. But you know, you got
to figure out what's right for you. Not a lot
(15:04):
of vodka in this book, not a lot of brandy.
There's some tequila in mescal, but not a ton It's
mostly I would say, whiskey, gin, prosecco, campari. And then
the compari offshoots like select and aparol and.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Liqueurs like that Aperaol's fantastic.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Yeah, Aperol's wonderful. And then and then their Select which
is sort of their competitor. They were made one year
apart nineteen nineteen and nineteen twenty, and they sort of
can they serve the same purpose. You can make a
select sprit, so you can make a Negroni with Select,
or you can use Apera or you can use Compari.
They're kind of interchangeable. They don't taste that different from
each other, but there's a little more bitterness to the Select,
which I really like.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yeah, And Aperol sprits in the summertime it is nice.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
It is nice. Also a pre dinner drink, which is wonderful.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yeah, and it's definitely having a resurgence too. I feel
like they put a big campaign behind Apparols versus in
the last couple of years. And I can tell you
that they did because they paid me a lot of
money to promote, which I appreciate.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
You're one of the lucky ones that got on the
Afarol ambassadorship.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Yeah, I did. They sent me.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
They actually they sent me to up to San Francisco,
Tyler for the Outside Lands Festival, and I had to
make a bunch of aparal sprits is for like everybody,
and we filmed it and it was it was so
much fun, Paul. One of the things I wanted to
talk to you about, which is something that like, I
feel really passionate about as as you know, a bartender,
(16:30):
but things that I think that really kind of makes
your drink get to the next level are your simple syrups.
And I really like to infuse my simple syrups. And
I wonder if that's something that you do as a
bartender and as a guy who's you know, made this
amazing bartender recipe book.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
So it's a good question. I I don't, And the
reason I don't is because I just don't have time.
I just like, I just don't have time. So a
lot of you know, like, look, it's really popular right now.
There's a lot of different methods. There's a lot of
really advanced bartending techniques and I put them in the book,
by the way, and you can make your own simple
(17:07):
serious there's recipes for that in the book. But I
really don't. I just easier to buy stuff and there
are people that make them that are way better than me,
and I just it's really a time thing. But there
are you know, look, I'm not a I'm an expert
at the world of Italian cocktails, but there are bartenders
who are masters of this stuff and they're bottling it
(17:28):
and it's better than anything I could do anyway, So
I prefer to but leave it to the experts.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
I'm a firm, staunch believer in the all the best
cocktails are about three ingredients. And then once you start
getting a complicated then I don't know. I get lost
in the weeds wondering what your favorite simple drinks are.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
It's a negroni. And the reason I love in nigroni is, well,
there's many reasons, but one is that the nigrony is
the simplest drink there is. There's three ingredients, they're all
equal parts. There's one ounce of them of compari, there's
one ounce of remouth, and there's one ounce of gin.
And you don't even need a cocktail shaker. You can
pour it all into a glass. You put a giant
(18:11):
Cuba dice in there, and you stir and it's done
and it takes ten seconds. And then what's great about
the neigrony is that you replace the gin with bourbon,
and you have a bolevardya. You replace the gin with prosecco,
and you have a negroni'spaliato. You replace the gin with
mezcal and you have a mescal in neigrony. You add
juice ty balsamic vinegar to a regular neigroni and you
(18:33):
have an amazing tardy like tar tangy kind of offshoot
of a neigroney. It's so simple, like those three basically
the base ingredients of campari and vermouth. You can just
use those two and add so many different variations of
it sweet remove or dry remove just to make you
can make like fifteen to twenty different drinks just on
(18:54):
those two basic ingredients.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
You can batch it really well too, right.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
And you can batch it like I teach these classes
like it Italy, where I teach people how to make
a nigroni in four or five different ways, and we
batch like, you know, fifty drinks with just the two
base ingredients of the vermouth and the compari. Because you
can then you can just make all these other drinks
right in front of people really quickly, really easily, and
serve them up. I hate when a bartender takes ten
(19:19):
minutes to make a drink. It drives me insane. I
think it's dumb for business because you can't poor as many.
I just think it's like, I think it's bad all around.
Nobody likes it except for maybe the bartender at the
end because they think they created something magical, and look
to them, it is magical. But I think it's bad
for business, it's bad for the customer, and it's just
the pain of the ass. So I love the nigronie
(19:41):
because the gronie is like the perfect template for so
many easy, fast, drinkable cocktails.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
I offended any bartenders out there, No.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
I think you're one hundred percent right, Like if you're
never been a bartender and it's like, mixology is not
something you do, but you do have people over Paul
it just showed you how to make like seven drinks
and everyone can remember what he just said. It's you're
just you're just replacing one thing for another thing, and
all of a sudden, you're like this huge mixologist. And
(20:12):
I think that that's I think that one of the
reasons why we started this show is to kind of
like explain that like cooking, yes, it is very uh complex,
but it's also very simple. It's really just a couple
things you need to become good at. And I think
that bartending is the exact, uh, the exact same thing
we were talking about before you came on the show.
(20:33):
And I don't know how you feel about this, but
I definitely feel very strongly about this. I know how
good my food is going to be at a restaurant
with how good their drink is that they made while
I was waiting for my table.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
Yeah, I I you know. Service. Anyone who's in the
restaurant is knows that all these things go together, and
service is a huge component of it. Timing is a
huge component of it. So if you can't figure out
like how to grease those wheels properly and get everything
time properly and not make people, you know, wait too
long or interrupting at the wrong times, or you know,
(21:06):
whatever it may be, I totally agree with you. I think,
like you know right away that this is a well
oiled machine if they get that right right off the bat,
I totally agree, totally agree.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Do you have any hot takes when it comes to cocktails, Like, Yeah,
I don't like that. I know it's popular. I can't
stand it.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
I'm trying not to offend it. Well, my hot take
on bartender's taking ten minutes to make it drink, that's.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Well, that's not a hot take. I feel like everything those.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Days are over with it, right like that, like the
mixologists with like the twisty up mustache and like you know,
and they're seeing twenty and they weigh their drink and
the look like they have eye droppers and stuff like,
those days are over.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Well, so here's a bartender.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
All right, So here's my hot take, and it's sort
of similar. It's just that so there's all these new
methods and techniques that bartenders are using their their rotovapping.
They're fat washing, they're confusing. And if you're like a
master bartender and you really know all these different liqueurs
(22:09):
and all these you know, the average the master bartend
will know the difference between you know, and apparall sprits
and a select sprits and a hugo and the other
like sprits drinks. Like they'll know because those taste profiles
are you know, they're ten percent different. But my hot
take is that nobody cares. The average customer has no
(22:29):
idea that you've done any of those things. They really
just want to get drunk, and the faster you can
do it, easier you can do it. They just don't know.
Like it's it's not like wine, like the the delta
of like good and bad wine is so white versus
like a good or bad cocktail. It's just not that wide.
(22:52):
Like it just doesn't It's just it's just not as complicated,
I would say. And that's my hot take because I
think all this stuff that these these guys that are doing,
and a lot of more geniuses that are making really
fascinating drinks, and I think the really upper echelon of
a really high end drinkers will appreciate it. But ninety
nine percent of people don't give a They don't care.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Tyler, what's your hot take when it comes to booze.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Well, you know, when we put together a season's cocktail list, right,
we have this kind of fun methodology which seems to
be unique to me, but I like it, and we
always discover things that are kind of new and at
the high art of it all. Listen, if we're making
cocktails at home, I'm with you, it's got to be
simple and whatever. But I think in a restaurant to
(23:37):
have cocktails that are commercially competitive, Like you've got a
cocktail program that sits at the higher echelon of restaurants
in your city.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
It's Michelin caliber kind of stuff.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
There's things that you want to kind of play around with,
or more importantly, there's professionals that want to dabble in
some of those things. So my thing is, I always
want to taste the labor. If I can't taste the labor,
we're scratch it out. You're not going to fat wash
the roasted corn with bourbon if I could, if I
can't taste it, and it doesn't make a big deal.
Now you like fat washing, I think is a spectacular
(24:10):
technique that adds a level of like mouthfeel to cocktails,
which is beautiful if done appropriately. So I think there's
kind of been given and take in a lot of
those techniques. I don't think every drink needs a big technique.
We are big fans of batching cocktails because I think
some of that, Like there's our mixologist team has a
full time person in the kitchen that just doesn't meets
(24:31):
and plots for cocktails. That's their full time culinary job.
So when our bartender team's in, all the dehydration's done,
all the citrus chips, the pear chips, all these things
are kind of done, like the green olives or stuff
with blue cheese moose by hand, which is fabulous, right,
and so.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
The guy stuffing them because I used to have that
job and my hands smelled horrible forever. They still do, but.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Like a little good what Rowford moose inside of a
big Queen Anne olive do?
Speaker 1 (24:58):
It's like, come on, this doesn't get any better.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
And then and the olives are hampitted, right, because if
you buy them commercially, they're they're inconsistent, right, So we
take those moments if you never notice it, but there's
got to be a level of simplicity to it. At
the same time, there are stupid cocktails out there that
way over garnish, right, They that put too much stuff
in it, like they think about the garnish before they
(25:21):
think about the flavor. I'm like, our big thing is,
let's make it taste good first, we'll make it pretty second,
and then we'll give it an appropriate name that's not
some captain of an old fishing chip from eighteen seventy
five and whatever, like nobody cares about that, But the
drink's got to be compelling and really kind of interesting
and I think season specific, right, Like I don't want
(25:41):
you want to take something that feels snugly in the
winter and fresh in the summer. So we kind of
make cocktails that kind of like fall into like two categories.
Either it's a sipper or a slammer, right, And the
slammers are generally kind of fresh and summary and vivacious
and delicious, and then sippers are drinks that you really
want to kind of save her and kind of spin around,
and then we can get like some kind of deep
stuff after that. But there's a process to it.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
I have one other hot take if you are if
you are, if you have a Negronia on your menu
and you're charging twenty three dollars for it, go yourself.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Seven. It's three ingredients, what about twenty seven? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (26:18):
But uh yeah, I'm with you unless there's something really
compelling about that. I think drinks are you know, are
are can be like ridiculously of a price, and I
think it's what I call the bone and the fish, Right,
So if I'm going to go to a restaurant and
I want to have a great meal. And I realized
you just charged me thirty two dollars for a cocktail.
Everything else is terrible. Yeah, I don't care how good
it is. You've just insulted me, and I'm looking for
(26:41):
things to rip apart. So I think you've got to
pricess things accordingly. For sure, I'm with you. That's a
good hot.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
Time, all right, my hot take. I don't like smoky anything.
I don't need it to no, no, no, no no, like
you know how they'll like put small near glass smoke
vanilla and then all well a sudden, it's like I
was at a campfire. I didn't need that. I wanted
to tast drink. Yeah, oh my wife loves it and
(27:07):
much my chagarn but I can't stand it. But I
tell you what you know. You're talking about batching, and Paul,
I was wondering what your thoughts are in this. I
see it on social media a lot, and that's these
freezer door drinks, which is kind of batching out in
one in one bottle and just keeping it in your
freezer door. Do you do you like that or do
you think that's just kind of a lazy bartending.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
No, I think it's totally fine. I honestly whatever makes
it easier that does. Again, like anyone who says they
can tell the difference, usually they're full of shit. They
don't really they really, you really can't. I think it's
it's like a simple easy way to just get things
done faster and easier. I'm all for it. I'm all
for anything gets faster and easier, as long as the
taste quality like stays within that like ninety percent range,
(27:50):
because the averge person's just not gonna know and real quick.
By the way, if you want something that's smoky in
a different way, on page three fifty six of my book,
there's a cocktail that they make. They vape into it
with marijuana and they close it in a bag, so
when you're drinking, you also you also inhale the marijuana smoke.
So that's always a fun drink.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Really.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Yeah, yeah, well that's different.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
That's a different kind of smoke.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
That's yeah, that's different.
Speaker 4 (28:17):
That.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Yeah, that's then anything you bring me to the dinner
table after that's gonna be delicious the way.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
That's a good trick, right, that's a really good trick.
You could regards someone thirty two dollars for that cocktail.
You're like, meals amazing.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Yeah, I just need some maggot cheese and some bread man.
It's they'll be good. Yeah, Paul, thank you so much
for coming on two dudes in the kitchen. I I
really do appreciate all that you do. I really do
love this book. Everyone out there, go if you want
to make amazing Italian cocktails, go check out Italy Cocktails,
an elegant collection of over one hundred recipes inspired by Italia.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
You guys can follow me on at mister Paul Feinstein
on all social media. You know, that's Mr Paul Feinstein
on Instagram or Twitter or ex whatever we're calling it.
I would just say at the end that Italian cocktails
are really the best cocktails in the world. Go out,
make them, drink them, support your local bartenders. Even if
(29:17):
I offended a lot of you, I apologize, But no,
cocktails are great, like they're so They're so fun there
and there's no like one way to do anything. It's
the ultimate fun thing to experiment with because if you
screw it up, you didn't. It's not like screwing up
a big you know, dinner recipe, like you can just
throw it out and try again and do it. And
it's just so easy and fun to play with. And
(29:39):
that this book is great for because there's over one
hundred and I think it's like one hundred and thirty.
I cut like fifty recipes from it, so hopefully they'll
be a second edition. But there it's the cocktail world
is so fun to experiment with, and this book gives
you this sort of template to play around, and I
just it was my pleasure and honor to highlight all
these Italian brands and Italian tenders and bars, and it's
(30:02):
just running by Italy is the love of my life.
And that's all I really want to say.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Beautiful, very cool man.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
Thank you guys so much for having me. I totally
appreciate it. And uh yeah, go make some drinks.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Yeah, some Negroni's last question, what's your favorite meal Italian
meal to pair with a negronie.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
Well, the thing is like, you don't really eat It's
very Italian to me. It's a very talient thing to say,
is that you wouldn't eat a meal with a negroni,
but you would during apperativo. So like it's really good
with like mortadella on some crackers or you know, some saloumi.
I just like really like like really high quality cold
(30:47):
cuts and cheeses, just to sort of the whole point
of the nigroni and the whole point of salty like
snacky foods is to literally scientifically get your stomach ready
to eat dinner. And so anything that's sort of like
olives and you know, salty cheeses and salty meats are
a really good way to do that. That also goes
(31:09):
really well with the negroni. So I would I would
recommend doing that.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
I'll maybe some tin fish tyler.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Yeah, that sounds great.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
And that's the reason I really like Negroney too, because
of like the sweet salty, bitter combination of everything there,
Like the compari, it's so nice with like cheese and
crispy you know, brusquetta and olives and and salumi and
all those kind of wonderful flavors. So I think that's
a perfect pairing as a pre dinner cocktail.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
There are some restaurants that are starting to do cocktail
pairings throughout the meal. There's only one that I know
of in Italy that does it, and they're in their
profile in the book. It's a boys called Locale and Florence.
But look, it's dicey. It's hard to pair a cocktail
menu with a ret with a with a with a
meal because you can get really loaded really quickly. Yeah,
(31:55):
so you gotta.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Be us from time and time. Like we have a
we have a bourbon house from uh Kentucky that's coming
to Miller and Locks and we're doing a bourbon four
course bourbon tasting Menua, which seemed kind of fun. Lots
of smoking meat, lots of but you kind of it's
not just the bourbon itself, because we're gonna crack into
some single age barrel stuff, which is really nice. But
it's like what kind of goes in with that that
would match up? Like one's got like like like a
(32:16):
Porcini liquid base, which is gonna be really nice, you know,
you know, like Porcini and bourbon.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
I mean, it's high concept stuff, but it tastes delicious.
Speaker 4 (32:23):
Would stack. Yeah, it's I think that'll be the next
real frontier for chefs and bartenders getting together to do
things like that where they can actually pair out an
entire meal without getting you like throw up drunk and
but doing it in the way that you can do
it with wine. I think there's a lot of room
for improvement there that I feel like you're going to
(32:44):
see more of that in the in the next few years.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Yeah, we were talking about that before you came on,
and Tyler was saying, you know, one of the big
things is yes, alcoholic drinks, but then you know non
alcoholic pairings that are going with everything and or like
really low out a whole content drinks. I think it's
a good idea.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
I think NA is pointless, but I uh, this doesn't
shock me, but there is at an NA. There's no
NA in my bike. But I think that if you
can do it right and you you know, you think
about a wine pairing, like maybe there's like six glasses
of wine, and if you can match like the alcohol
(33:24):
content with the cocktail that you would with a wine pairing,
that you can kind of hopefully not get something to
throw over at the end of the night, and I
think it'll work really well.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Yeah, Paul, fine scene, Thank you so much for coming on.
Two Dudes in the kitchen. This was a lot of fun.
Speaker 4 (33:37):
Man, Tyler Wells, thank you guys so much for having me.
I really appreciate it. Uh And yeah, go drink some
Italian cocktails and have some fun.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Thank you brother, See you man, that was a lot
of fun.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Man.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
I feel like that guy will forget more about booze
than I'll ever know.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
You know.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
The fun thing about making cocktails, it's one of those
little you know, because we talked from time to time
about these little small magic tricks like totally negret, are
you making Manny's scratch? If you could learn how to
make a couple of cocktails, like whatever your favorite thing is,
and then batch them and then make that refrigerated door drink,
there's nothing more fun than having folks come over and
(34:11):
putting together a cheese plate with some charcoute and stuff
you kind of get from the grocery store.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
That's easy.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
But if you made a cocktail from scratch, they're like,
oh my god, you're a wizard. So I think it's
kind of one of those fun things, especially if you
really love Negroni. I love in Negroni, and I think
it's kind of one of those fun things to play
around with. So make some drinks.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Yeah, I would say this is my advice to everyone
out there, learn how to make an old fashion a
good one. Learn how to make a good negroni, it's
very easy. Learn how to make a Manhattan. Yeah, and
learn how to make a good martini. And if you
can do those things, you're gonna hate hosting parties because
(34:50):
no one's gonna stop asking that. Everyone will continue to
ask you to make drinks, and you get fine and
you get tired of it.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Yeah, but those like five drinks that you just named,
all of them are classics and easy to up and
then very simple, very very simple. But there's nuances with
all that kind of stuff, right, Like you can kind
of mess up with martini if it's out of balance,
and mostly simple drinks are about balance and then and
just kind of taste it and kind of play around
with it.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
You get it right.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
But again, it's like if you've got martinis also to
batched out in your fridge and the only thing you're
doing is just like chilling your ups glass with like
and skewing the olives and pouring it right on top
of them. You can shake it to order, so you
got a little razzal dows in front of folks. But
that's syrupy delicious, you know. Vodka drink with like a
little bit of ice kind of floating across the top
(35:32):
of the pond.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
What's better?
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Oh all right, well I'm gonna have make a drink now.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
I know.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
I said I was gonna you know, selective drinking this year,
but I could do that.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Now's the time.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Yeah, all right, see you buddy. All right, guys, thanks
for listening. Follow us on Instagram at two Dudes in
a Kitchen. Make sure to write us a review and
leave us five stars.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
We'll take that and we'll see you guys next time.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
See you next time.
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