November 22, 2023 • 26 mins
In this episode, we dissect the electrifying Las Vegas Grand Prix, applauding Charles Leclerc's phenomenal drive securing P2 while marveling at Sergio Perez's impressive recovery, clinching second in the title race. Join us as we discuss the challenging circumstances faced by the Williams duo in this thrilling F1 showdown!
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
No investigation necessary.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Welcome to Vison's F one Betting podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
A flight down, Away we go.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I'll check this A legend, absolutely animal, the only F
one handicap you'll ever need.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Michael Right, find the hire a ship, get to do.
Speaker 4 (00:16):
What you're your hosts F one technical analyst Michael Miranda
and betting expert Ben Wilson.
Speaker 5 (00:23):
Well, it was a big lead up with the Vegas
Grand Prize now in the books. Here as we're back
Peace and Formula one Betting Podcast. Final week of this
twenty twenty three season. We've got the recap episode for
you today with Michael Branda, I'm Ben Wilson. We will
also have a full Abu Dabby Grand preview for you
as well. Still some races up for grabs, some drivers constructors'
(00:43):
positions that are yet to be determined, so we'll see
how that all goes this week. But for now, Michay,
let's talk about Vegas F one most built up we'd
had for any race this season, just from the three
thousand foot perspective here, Machae and you looked at how
everything was in the lead up to the race and
things end up playing out. Max for Stapping, got bet
down as low as we saw minus one eighty one
(01:05):
eighty five in some of the shops here in Vegas.
He ends up getting to win. First question to you
is did you end up when this when this price
got sub two dollars? Was that a bypoint for you
on a Verstappen or did you just stay off the
Red bulls entirely this weekend and what.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
He came down for minus four fifty to minus one
eighty I think it was it was an easy bypoint there.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
I did have Fernando Lonzo also to win.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
I'm not gonna lie this betting car for me to
not work out as well as I hope, just because
of the hacktaic first lap incident, well, first corner incident
and all this stuff.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Vegas.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Again, as you come to a newer or new track,
it's difficult to handicap. You can have ideas of what's
going to happen, Like you can see Ferrari is going
to do well here, which they did right Colors signs
Charles mc clurk. Great, you know that it was going
to be a Max win because well it's maxi stapp
and it's Rebull, right, you know the is going to
(02:00):
be a recovery drive for Peros that happened. We saw
him qualify outside the points as I said, he's going
to qualify that well, so you can get a good
grasp of certain things that could happen. But it seems
like betting you're trying to foresee certain situations that you
can't really foresee because you have no idea that what
(02:22):
to happen.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Yeah, no doubt.
Speaker 5 (02:23):
Well that's part of the variance that comes with betting
into a track where we have zero datas, zero results
unless you want to count the early eighties to really
go off of. So for Stapping gets the win, Perez
completes the double podium for the Red Bull, and Charlo
Leclair of Ferrari gets pull and then ends up taking
second in the race from the outside. If we just
(02:45):
take away mchae that opening lap collision, which derailed a
couple of different drivers races and as you talk about,
really altered a lot of the philosophy and strategy going
forward as we file things away for next year. Now
that because we have you're one of a ten year
Vegas F one track now in the books, What was
your big takeaway just from how the cars ended up
actually looking on the track, given how long of a circuit,
(03:07):
this was second longest n F one on the per
lap basis, and and and what the weather, the tires,
you know, that whole formula. How did that that all
played out? What was your big takeaway just from the
general perspective there.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
I think, as I've said when we were live and
Saturday in the afternoon here, that Vegas came too.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Early into F one.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
They had no idea what was going to happen, and
I think they needed to wait in order to go
and find a good balance of everything to work out.
They rushed this entire thing, and it was not conducive
to anyone, whether it be the people of Las Vegas,
whether it be to any of the visitors and people who.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Are going for the race.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Because we know what happened FB one FB two. There's
actually a current lawsuit go for Ferrari to the people
of Las Vegas or not people, but.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
The people who organized Las Vegas.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Grandprou is from the people of Las Vegas who organized
Las Vegas one. It's it's insane how there are already
two lawsuits for this track, and it's it's not been
that crazy of a race. This is it's just poor,
poor planning, and it seems to have caused out Vegas GP.
And I can't say I'm surprised to say all this happened,
(04:22):
but too early to come into formula one. They should
have taken the time planned it out right and once
they had their plan this, take the time to implement it.
There was no need to rush it. No one was
going to miss Vegas, but everyone was looking forward to it,
and I'm going to say Vegas severely underdelivered on the track.
(04:43):
They kicked out all the fans from FB one, FB two.
It was absolutely not worth watching the Grand Prix giving
all this fact. It was just it's it's it was
just complete a disaster.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
And well people hated F one.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Well they hate F one even more now in the
States because there's no way you can go and revive
your reputation after what just happened this last weekend.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
No no, no doubt.
Speaker 5 (05:09):
And the look what happened and the first two practice
sessions just unconscionable, not a shock to see lawsuits come.
You have to think, you know, I'm no lawyer McKale,
but you have to think that there's a pretty compelling
case for the folks pushing that lawsuit in the court
of laws, certainly they're on the right side of the
court of public opinion. You know what's interesting though, I'm
surprised too you say that just on you know, if
(05:30):
you talk about the race as a whole, how that
was a letdown, because amidst the season where we've had
very few races actually feel like they've been down to
the wire, few races with tons of overtaking. You know,
the biggest stretches of excitment we've had have been the
big crashes this year. And I think if you were
to ask someone what was the race you remember the most,
I probably would tell you Melbourne just because of how
(05:52):
insane that ending was, and that would that would easily
be the race I remember the most. If you're asking
me to think back through the season, this had to
be from a pure racing standpoint, though McHale at top five,
as far as actual entertainment when we actually got to
race night.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Now, see, the race was phenomenal, and if the build
up before that on the weekend, right from Thursday Friday,
maybe even Wednesday on, if that build up was done perfectly,
this race would have hit not just top five, but
top three. It was so much fun watching these cars
over say, hitting the limits. They drove this piece of
(06:27):
machinery to their limit. Every driver was pleased with the
question are you able to handle it? We saw landon
or Its crash ow. We saw Fernando or Larrenzers spin
out into going to the first corner. Color signs was
another one of them. Right, it's this race bought everything
he needed to bring, but due to the fact that
(06:48):
Vegas GP was underprepared to handle such disasters, it made
this race just not enjoyable.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Like, to me, what what makes the race and joys was?
Speaker 1 (07:00):
I can watch practice one, practice two, practice three, qualifying.
I can enjoy each and every day. Once Thursday night
was ruined, I'm like, do I even want to watch
Friday night? I fell asleep doing qualifying. I'm not gonna lie.
I'm like, there's no point in watching this. I'd rather
wake up and rewatch the highlights to see what the
stuff is.
Speaker 5 (07:22):
Anytime you have a practice, yes, going till four am
local time probably not a great recipe for sex successful.
We'll say it like that for sure, you know, and
we still have the one race to go. We'll get
into our full preview tomorrow on the pod Mchaale with
the transition out of Abu Dhabi and as we go
into some winners and losers here, because there's this perception that, okay, well,
the season's been over for quite a while, ever since
(07:44):
Red Bull, and we knew even before the Red Hole
and Maxrestaff and clinch the two championships that the season
was basically over. But you've got a really compelling race
now for seconds in the Constructors and a really compelling
race for fourth as well. So we kind of have
teams here who are on dueling sides of the winners
and losers in both of those. As we'll start for
the race for second, where Mercedes finds their lead over
Ferrari down to just four points as a team, both
(08:07):
drivers in the points. But you get George Russell who
causes a collision with Max Verstaff and takes a five
second penalty drops him from fourth out of the top six.
And then Lewis Hamilton just had one of those races
from hell, even though he's somehow able to get into
the points. You and I officially lose our bet on
Hamilton to finish above Sergio Perez and the drivers standings,
and I saw the comments today from the team principal,
(08:29):
Total Wolf for Mercedes coming out and saying, you know,
we had the pace, we could have, should have, would have,
just didn't execute at the end of the day. What
did you how did you interpret those comments here from Mercedes,
who clearly were a losing team coming out of the weekend.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
I think they were just.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Victims of unfortunate second songs unfortunately. I think Baseayes really
did have the pace to show what they could do.
It was just unfortunate timing and a fortunate event that
just put them where they were.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
That's it, period.
Speaker 6 (08:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (08:58):
Hamilton's seventh, I mean it showed with the pace right,
he had two different just really bad breaks where especially
the having his having the punctured tire right after he
passes a pit lane and he had basically had to
take one lap going at a super slow speed. Still
ends up finishing seventh in the race. And then as
we watched George Russell, he was on pace to be
(09:20):
a near podium finisher, ends up eighth there after his
penalty gets supplied. So you judge Bozette with Ferrari, you
had some interesting comments you found from the lead driver,
Charlotte Clair, who does not win from Paul. That is
yet another race where Leclair has been able to hang
on to pole position. But he came out really really happy,
right with how the overall performance from both himself individually
(09:42):
and the team went.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Well, why not look here from Charles look for himself today.
Speaker 6 (09:46):
I didn't leave anything on the table. I honestly maximize
absolutely everything. Maybe the start, but then we got unlucky
with the safety guy. It was only five laps after
we had boxed, which is the worst moment really for
the tires because you start to warm them up and
then you cool them down, and he's very difficult to
restyle the tires and to rewarm them, and then we
(10:07):
struggled for the second half of the race, which is
a shame. But on the other hand, I mean, as
much as I'm very tough with myself whenever I do
a mistake, I'm also yeah, I recognize when I do
a good job myself. And today, honestly was a really
really good race and I'm really happy, all right.
Speaker 5 (10:24):
Thanks, yeah, thanks Chelle for joining us on the show.
Well we're down to one race though, mckail and with
that it's interesting to hear him talk about that, right,
because it's been an unimpressive season from Leclaire, but he's
now twelve, within twelve points of his teammate Carlo Science,
who finishes sixth. We talked mid season about the prop
bets being offered it a couple books where you could
still have bet On into mid season signs first Leclaire
(10:47):
full season points and you were getting Science at a
still at a dog price. Science has looked like he's
in position to win that. But now here comes Leclair
who puts together a really good bounce back after that
disaster going back to Bratin or his car completely malfunctions
on the formation lap.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Yes, So.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
The one thing that I do want to point out
is look at Charles demeanor. He is now behaving as
someone who is ready to win.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Right.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
When you have that, it changes everything. When you make
a mistake, it's it's amplified. And when you drive perfectly
exactly how you're meant to, that's even amplified. So here
is Charles Leclaire, who I've his woes of the season
I think have come to an end. I think next
season we might be able to see Charles Leclaire find
(11:43):
himself again and just race like there's nothing there that
just be comfortable and racing himself. That's what Charles Leclaire
has to do. And I feel like we are there
right now and I'm going to enjoy watching Charles race
moving forward. But yeah, it just it was just unfortunate
with the safety coin every then Ferrari, we gave it there.
Oh and we saw a paid dividend for them.
Speaker 5 (12:06):
Yeah, and milk. Maybe it's taken the entire season essentially
to get this thing right from the team principal aspect
with Frederick Vassur and the whole strategy right. But at
least you can take this forward into next year. We
were super optimistic that Ferrari would have all the pieces
coming together, at least a winner coming out of the
Las Vegas Grand Prix and a really good battle for
this weekend Mercedes v. Ferrari. Those two teams separated now
(12:29):
in the Constructors by just four points. All right, we've
got some other winners and losers. I did not have
a great week if you were listening to the show
last week, So we'll take a quick break. We need
to dive into what went wrong for the McLaren for
the Williams. We'll do that next. Talk to some other
winners and losers here as we wrap up our Vegas
Grand Free recap show on the VS and F one
Betting Podcast.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Welcome to Vson's F one Betting Podcast, the only F
one handicap you'll ever need.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
You're your hosts, F one technical analyst Mikale Miranda and
betting expert Ben Wilson.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
Okay, McHale, I'm sitting there early suck Saturday morning, after
watching day had called by it and over all, right,
should I just already mark down this Williams top ten
Alex Albon ticket I have in my account? Do I
do I mark down as a winner? Now?
Speaker 6 (13:28):
Do I?
Speaker 5 (13:28):
At least wait till the race starts and he avoids
a crash? And I'm thinking, Wow, how good did the
Williams look? Two drivers into Q three, each into the
top six, and then it just all went south and
they're getting past left and right. Neither driver finishes in
the points Logan Sargent had a he thought it was
his best chance of the year to get points. Didn't
work out, and the bet I really liked Albon minus
(13:50):
one forty to finish in the top ten. Actually that
does not pan out either. So what happened Mikhale to
the Williams in Vegas.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
I was looking at I just think that the Williams
when it came down to putting in the field of
the car and everything, they just it couldn't add up,
It couldn't do its job. I think James val is
going to take a look at that to see because uh,
that's been one of the achilles hell as well. Whereas
they can do a really great qualifying and at times
(14:19):
they could put the car at the points, but when
it comes to a tract that requires the maximount of
the car and the car just couldn't deliver. It comes
to big questioned. Also, it was unfortunate again with safety
car and everything. Some teams just did not maximize the
safety car. Some teams did. So that's all that it
(14:43):
comes down to me. So also piastre petted again for
another pair of hard tires, went on and he was
in P four for the for the remain of the
race until where he had to put the change tires
because again that's one of the technical directors for every
race you have to change tire compounds. So he did
change to the mediums, which he still finish in the
top ten. Right, So another thing to look at is
that maybe these tire compounds weren't the right ones. Everyone
(15:08):
loved the heart compounds, so maybe let's move the compounds up.
Instead of doing C three, C four, C five, you
go C two C three C four. That could change everything, right,
because then your hard timee becomes a medium tie here
and now you play with strategies again. As Charles said
that once you get those tires warmed up, if they
(15:30):
use tires, the safety goud comes out and you cool them.
The tire wanted to reheat these up to temperature changes. Right,
It's longer now, so you get caught out and cars
just end up passing, especially those you put on fresh
boots and come out right. It doesn't matter if they
use tires. They're just fresh boots for the race because
they've been in the tire blankets, so they're ready to
(15:52):
be up to temperature. And sometimes it's it's difficult to
just to hit everything in the right mark.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
I mean know mclan at.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Times have been questionable to say the least right, but
again I feel like they're a team who's gone back
into the infancy and are learning how to be better.
Right with the stuff that happened in Russia, Let's go
back a couple of years now where Landon Orris came
closer to in the race, right that this team is
(16:23):
really learning how to be a champion. So it's going
to take them while a couple mistakes. Yes they're eight
time Constructor champions, but that's way back then. Everything has
changed now and I believe Zach Brown is leading the
team into a great direction. So sometimes teams just need
to maximize everything that they have, and I believe Williams.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Did their best.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
It's just that their strategy didn't line up by what
happened on the track, and then it came down to
question do we pick again or do we just leave
the cars out?
Speaker 3 (16:54):
And that's what happened.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
So unfortunate circumstances, but thing the team will learn from
this and those try to figure out the best game
plan moving forward.
Speaker 5 (17:04):
Well, it's a good point when you think about just
relative to performance against your market value and where that's
pin off season and going back a few years, Williams
have been a team consistently at the bottom of the
Constructor's zero expectations and this is the first year in
a while now mkil where you go into each race expecting, okay,
this is a legitimate chance, especially in certain circuits in
(17:25):
Las Vegas. Looked on paper like one of them, where
the expectation all of a sudden shifts. Now it's no
longer okay, they'll lucky, They'll be lucky just to be
in the points. Conversation, it's now the expectation where ax
aalban was a pretty good minus money favorite to finish
in the points, and it's been that way now for
a few races running so I think can make a
good point. McLaren is another sort of another story in
of itself because of the huge improvements that have been made,
(17:47):
and we've also in a similar fashion come to now
the expectation of you know, Landol Norris minus money to
finish on the podium before the qualifying got underway. Yeah,
not a crazy thing anymore. I actually I liked norris
Is prospects heading into Vegas and then it just all
went wrong. Neither McLaren get out of Q one. You
get for the crash from Lando Norris. That good to
(18:07):
see was all right and cleared all the protocols coming
out of that crash, but he goes down pretty early
and it took a fortuitous break, as you talked about
Machae with the pit stop strategy for Oscar Piastre to
ultimately find his way into the points here. So for
a McLaren team that started off so bad had been
so strong for the better part of two months, what
(18:28):
did that race tell you about the McLaren here with
the one race still.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
To go, McLaren have a long way of understanding their car,
right they said they couldn't find the right balance. And
for a team, I get that free practice one was
it ended abruptly after nine minutes. But if every other
team can figure out what they need to do, why
is it that team who has made such ingrowns was
(18:55):
unable to determine the best form.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
For the car?
Speaker 6 (19:00):
Right?
Speaker 1 (19:00):
It's questionable there. So McLaren, they've got their new concept
in now it's time that they understand the new concept.
It's time they figure out how everything ebbs and flows
in order to get the best out of the car
and out of the drivers. Every weekend, so we everyone
thought that McLaren, well, they have these horrendous runs and
(19:21):
qualifying and great pace and doing the race, and they
did landon Norris and forutuily crashed out. The tires were
just cold and he could not get the rotation and
everything in and so it was a heavy crash out.
But if you look at Oscar Prstree, great run, right,
everyone had trouble on the medium tires. Even Max for
(19:43):
Snapping himself said that, hey, when we got to the
mediums just it died of so quickly. We were just
weren't good. The car just didn't feel right on the medium.
The moment upon the herds, the car came alive. I
was able to overtake, and that's how Max overtook four
p one against souls Leclair. Right, So certain seams have
inclinations to certain compounds of ties, but that doesn't mean
(20:05):
that you can't find the right balance. And these teams
need to be able to determine what is the best
possible set up to go into qualifying as well as
the race. You can't pick and choose which one works
for you because you get no points for qualifying, absolutely
zero points. So it doesn't really matter where you qualify
(20:27):
if you can't keep those positions.
Speaker 5 (20:30):
Yeah, and it brings up an interesting and interesting race
now because McLaren the lead over Aston Martin for fourth
in the constructors is down to eleven. And remember all
these places in the constructors there's a big, big discrepancies
as far as the allocation you get money wise, so
big financial implications here by each place you're getting in
the constructor. So these battles do matter as we go
(20:51):
to the final race week and out of the losing
column for McLaren that's now pitted up against an Asid
Martin team that has somehow found themselves here Michael, that's
one of our winners. We'll talk about double points. Finished
looking pretty spry nowt In the last two weeks Asid
Martin have looked like a totally different team.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
I feel like they're upgrad, are finally starting to work,
but they don't like they don't look like a different
team to me. It's been fortunate for what Lancetrow was
able to do. Great drive, but again inconsistency, so it
as well as actually eleven points, let's go to U
with w that's not one of Stroll's great tracks. So
(21:28):
we need to see each individual driver and the team
together as a whole. The driving driver pairing with as
Martin is not that strong. Fernando Alonso has carrying the
team on his back. Literally I'm not I'm not going
to say if it's back breaks, it wouldn't be a surprise.
But like, let's let's be honest, Like all the points
that as Martin has is due to Fernando Alonso. But
(21:51):
if you look at all the points that McLaren have,
it's both drivers, right if one if one fails to points,
the other one does, so they are trading points back
and forth off and supporting the team. Fernando is a
team in asked Martin lancetrowe very inconsistent and I don't
(22:13):
trust them in karensene, yes, it's eleven points. But McLaren
are the strongest team any day. McLaren is the stronger team.
Speaker 5 (22:23):
Hard to see a world in which you would have
anybody would have had the thought of Lancetrow going from
P nineteen to P five on their Las Vegas Bengo KRT.
But if he did, congrats throwhole passes up here Gasly
in the process for tenth and now in the driver's
Championship standings with one race to go. Speaking of mentioned
pier Ghasly and an Alpine It was an up and
(22:44):
down weekend for the Alpine. What a great drive by
Sabanocon getting into the top six, finishing fourth, but Ghasly
was in such a promising position his car didn't have
much pay slips out of the top ten. Overall, that
was an interesting week for kind of a when you
say micro cosm of the alpine season, you just have
no idea what's going to happen race and race out,
up and down within the same exact race for the
(23:05):
two drivers.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Absolutely, but I feel like over the past couple of
races have actually looked a little bit more consistent. Now
when it comes to bat and we always say four,
that's an important number, right, four You want to look
at the past four races, the past four games. The
past for anything is what you're looking.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
At for is an imports number.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
So they've looked pretty consistent in the past four races.
But now they're fighting for position in championships. It's not
it's no longer for it's the remaining right, let's look
at the entire season as a whole. They've not been
able to convince me that they're a good team to
(23:50):
bet on weekend, week out, you're going to have to
look at what the teams are doing each.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
And every week.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
And when you have to do that much research and
that much focus for a team every week, it can
take your eye off the ball. And this is a
betting podcast making money from betting. That's the whole point.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
That we're here for, right and my checked, yes it is.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
And if we're focusing on what Alpin can do, we
can weak out. It's like you're not going to do
anything from there. Well that that destroy your money in
the trash at that point, or ask Michael Lombardi on
the Lamart line, and Jim Shuffle says, it's the Saint
Dude's play. So you have to take a holistic view
at our pain. Yes they have up and down, but
(24:36):
they're always up and down. I just want some consistency.
I want them to focus on one aspect of the
team and work on that. I think that will propel
them so much more than having to have.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
Let's fix the car here, Let's do this.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Let's do this, like, guys, figure out the one department
that really needs work and work on that until you
can get that to a good place.
Speaker 5 (25:00):
I'm gonna say this, o Coon seems like a guy
who's just he's run hot and cold all year. This
is three straight races finishing in the points, five of
the last six now since having to retire not making
it through the race in the previous US race we
had in Austin. So he's in good form right now,
four points within his teammate Pier Gasley in the Driver's
championship with one race to go. All right, those are
(25:20):
our takeaways from Las Vegas. We can now turn that
attention and all the data we've gathered through the twenty
plus races this year into one more Abu Dhabi coming
up this weekend. Mikhale, you and I will be back
before we hit that Thanksgiving Some of us celebrate that
to holiday, Kail, It's it's kind of a big deal
here in the state, so we got to make sure
we view a full preview before the Thanksgiving holiday. Give
(25:40):
you all some hopefully some tasty bets to get into
the account for the last race of the season in
Abu Dhabi. We really appreciate all the support, had great
feedback as well from the episode. Last week was a
really fun week for all of us here and we're
trying to finish strong, one more week to go. Hope
the bets are a little bit better on the card
for this week. But we appreciate all of those of
you who are subscribed. I've been rating listening to us
(26:02):
as well, so we'll come back. Have another episode for
you this week, previewing the Abby Dabby Grand Prix. As
we say, so long, He's Michale, I'm Ben. We'll catch
you next time. One more in season race preview to
go here on the VS in f one Betting Podcast.
No investigation necessary.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Welcome to Vison's F one Betting podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
A flight down, Away we go.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I'll check this A legend, absolutely animal, the only F
one handicap you'll ever need.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Michael Right, find the hire a ship, get to do.
Speaker 4 (00:16):
What you're your hosts F one technical analyst Michael Miranda
and betting expert Ben Wilson.
Speaker 5 (00:23):
Well, it was a big lead up with the Vegas
Grand Prize now in the books. Here as we're back
Peace and Formula one Betting Podcast. Final week of this
twenty twenty three season. We've got the recap episode for
you today with Michael Branda, I'm Ben Wilson. We will
also have a full Abu Dabby Grand preview for you
as well. Still some races up for grabs, some drivers constructors'
(00:43):
positions that are yet to be determined, so we'll see
how that all goes this week. But for now, Michay,
let's talk about Vegas F one most built up we'd
had for any race this season, just from the three
thousand foot perspective here, Machae and you looked at how
everything was in the lead up to the race and
things end up playing out. Max for Stapping, got bet
down as low as we saw minus one eighty one
(01:05):
eighty five in some of the shops here in Vegas.
He ends up getting to win. First question to you
is did you end up when this when this price
got sub two dollars? Was that a bypoint for you
on a Verstappen or did you just stay off the
Red bulls entirely this weekend and what.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
He came down for minus four fifty to minus one
eighty I think it was it was an easy bypoint there.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
I did have Fernando Lonzo also to win.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
I'm not gonna lie this betting car for me to
not work out as well as I hope, just because
of the hacktaic first lap incident, well, first corner incident
and all this stuff.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Vegas.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Again, as you come to a newer or new track,
it's difficult to handicap. You can have ideas of what's
going to happen, Like you can see Ferrari is going
to do well here, which they did right Colors signs
Charles mc clurk. Great, you know that it was going
to be a Max win because well it's maxi stapp
and it's Rebull, right, you know the is going to
(02:00):
be a recovery drive for Peros that happened. We saw
him qualify outside the points as I said, he's going
to qualify that well, so you can get a good
grasp of certain things that could happen. But it seems
like betting you're trying to foresee certain situations that you
can't really foresee because you have no idea that what
(02:22):
to happen.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Yeah, no doubt.
Speaker 5 (02:23):
Well that's part of the variance that comes with betting
into a track where we have zero datas, zero results
unless you want to count the early eighties to really
go off of. So for Stapping gets the win, Perez
completes the double podium for the Red Bull, and Charlo
Leclair of Ferrari gets pull and then ends up taking
second in the race from the outside. If we just
(02:45):
take away mchae that opening lap collision, which derailed a
couple of different drivers races and as you talk about,
really altered a lot of the philosophy and strategy going
forward as we file things away for next year. Now
that because we have you're one of a ten year
Vegas F one track now in the books, What was
your big takeaway just from how the cars ended up
actually looking on the track, given how long of a circuit,
(03:07):
this was second longest n F one on the per
lap basis, and and and what the weather, the tires,
you know, that whole formula. How did that that all
played out? What was your big takeaway just from the
general perspective there.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
I think, as I've said when we were live and
Saturday in the afternoon here, that Vegas came too.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Early into F one.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
They had no idea what was going to happen, and
I think they needed to wait in order to go
and find a good balance of everything to work out.
They rushed this entire thing, and it was not conducive
to anyone, whether it be the people of Las Vegas,
whether it be to any of the visitors and people who.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Are going for the race.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Because we know what happened FB one FB two. There's
actually a current lawsuit go for Ferrari to the people
of Las Vegas or not people, but.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
The people who organized Las Vegas.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Grandprou is from the people of Las Vegas who organized
Las Vegas one. It's it's insane how there are already
two lawsuits for this track, and it's it's not been
that crazy of a race. This is it's just poor,
poor planning, and it seems to have caused out Vegas GP.
And I can't say I'm surprised to say all this happened,
(04:22):
but too early to come into formula one. They should
have taken the time planned it out right and once
they had their plan this, take the time to implement it.
There was no need to rush it. No one was
going to miss Vegas, but everyone was looking forward to it,
and I'm going to say Vegas severely underdelivered on the track.
(04:43):
They kicked out all the fans from FB one, FB two.
It was absolutely not worth watching the Grand Prix giving
all this fact. It was just it's it's it was
just complete a disaster.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
And well people hated F one.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Well they hate F one even more now in the
States because there's no way you can go and revive
your reputation after what just happened this last weekend.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
No no, no doubt.
Speaker 5 (05:09):
And the look what happened and the first two practice
sessions just unconscionable, not a shock to see lawsuits come.
You have to think, you know, I'm no lawyer McKale,
but you have to think that there's a pretty compelling
case for the folks pushing that lawsuit in the court
of laws, certainly they're on the right side of the
court of public opinion. You know what's interesting though, I'm
surprised too you say that just on you know, if
(05:30):
you talk about the race as a whole, how that
was a letdown, because amidst the season where we've had
very few races actually feel like they've been down to
the wire, few races with tons of overtaking. You know,
the biggest stretches of excitment we've had have been the
big crashes this year. And I think if you were
to ask someone what was the race you remember the most,
I probably would tell you Melbourne just because of how
(05:52):
insane that ending was, and that would that would easily
be the race I remember the most. If you're asking
me to think back through the season, this had to
be from a pure racing standpoint, though McHale at top five,
as far as actual entertainment when we actually got to
race night.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Now, see, the race was phenomenal, and if the build
up before that on the weekend, right from Thursday Friday,
maybe even Wednesday on, if that build up was done perfectly,
this race would have hit not just top five, but
top three. It was so much fun watching these cars
over say, hitting the limits. They drove this piece of
(06:27):
machinery to their limit. Every driver was pleased with the
question are you able to handle it? We saw landon
or Its crash ow. We saw Fernando or Larrenzers spin
out into going to the first corner. Color signs was
another one of them. Right, it's this race bought everything
he needed to bring, but due to the fact that
(06:48):
Vegas GP was underprepared to handle such disasters, it made
this race just not enjoyable.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Like, to me, what what makes the race and joys was?
Speaker 1 (07:00):
I can watch practice one, practice two, practice three, qualifying.
I can enjoy each and every day. Once Thursday night
was ruined, I'm like, do I even want to watch
Friday night? I fell asleep doing qualifying. I'm not gonna lie.
I'm like, there's no point in watching this. I'd rather
wake up and rewatch the highlights to see what the
stuff is.
Speaker 5 (07:22):
Anytime you have a practice, yes, going till four am
local time probably not a great recipe for sex successful.
We'll say it like that for sure, you know, and
we still have the one race to go. We'll get
into our full preview tomorrow on the pod Mchaale with
the transition out of Abu Dhabi and as we go
into some winners and losers here, because there's this perception that, okay, well,
the season's been over for quite a while, ever since
(07:44):
Red Bull, and we knew even before the Red Hole
and Maxrestaff and clinch the two championships that the season
was basically over. But you've got a really compelling race
now for seconds in the Constructors and a really compelling
race for fourth as well. So we kind of have
teams here who are on dueling sides of the winners
and losers in both of those. As we'll start for
the race for second, where Mercedes finds their lead over
Ferrari down to just four points as a team, both
(08:07):
drivers in the points. But you get George Russell who
causes a collision with Max Verstaff and takes a five
second penalty drops him from fourth out of the top six.
And then Lewis Hamilton just had one of those races
from hell, even though he's somehow able to get into
the points. You and I officially lose our bet on
Hamilton to finish above Sergio Perez and the drivers standings,
and I saw the comments today from the team principal,
(08:29):
Total Wolf for Mercedes coming out and saying, you know,
we had the pace, we could have, should have, would have,
just didn't execute at the end of the day. What
did you how did you interpret those comments here from Mercedes,
who clearly were a losing team coming out of the weekend.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
I think they were just.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Victims of unfortunate second songs unfortunately. I think Baseayes really
did have the pace to show what they could do.
It was just unfortunate timing and a fortunate event that
just put them where they were.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
That's it, period.
Speaker 6 (08:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (08:58):
Hamilton's seventh, I mean it showed with the pace right,
he had two different just really bad breaks where especially
the having his having the punctured tire right after he
passes a pit lane and he had basically had to
take one lap going at a super slow speed. Still
ends up finishing seventh in the race. And then as
we watched George Russell, he was on pace to be
(09:20):
a near podium finisher, ends up eighth there after his
penalty gets supplied. So you judge Bozette with Ferrari, you
had some interesting comments you found from the lead driver,
Charlotte Clair, who does not win from Paul. That is
yet another race where Leclair has been able to hang
on to pole position. But he came out really really happy,
right with how the overall performance from both himself individually
(09:42):
and the team went.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Well, why not look here from Charles look for himself today.
Speaker 6 (09:46):
I didn't leave anything on the table. I honestly maximize
absolutely everything. Maybe the start, but then we got unlucky
with the safety guy. It was only five laps after
we had boxed, which is the worst moment really for
the tires because you start to warm them up and
then you cool them down, and he's very difficult to
restyle the tires and to rewarm them, and then we
(10:07):
struggled for the second half of the race, which is
a shame. But on the other hand, I mean, as
much as I'm very tough with myself whenever I do
a mistake, I'm also yeah, I recognize when I do
a good job myself. And today, honestly was a really
really good race and I'm really happy, all right.
Speaker 5 (10:24):
Thanks, yeah, thanks Chelle for joining us on the show.
Well we're down to one race though, mckail and with
that it's interesting to hear him talk about that, right,
because it's been an unimpressive season from Leclaire, but he's
now twelve, within twelve points of his teammate Carlo Science,
who finishes sixth. We talked mid season about the prop
bets being offered it a couple books where you could
still have bet On into mid season signs first Leclaire
(10:47):
full season points and you were getting Science at a
still at a dog price. Science has looked like he's
in position to win that. But now here comes Leclair
who puts together a really good bounce back after that
disaster going back to Bratin or his car completely malfunctions
on the formation lap.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Yes, So.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
The one thing that I do want to point out
is look at Charles demeanor. He is now behaving as
someone who is ready to win.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Right.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
When you have that, it changes everything. When you make
a mistake, it's it's amplified. And when you drive perfectly
exactly how you're meant to, that's even amplified. So here
is Charles Leclaire, who I've his woes of the season
I think have come to an end. I think next
season we might be able to see Charles Leclaire find
(11:43):
himself again and just race like there's nothing there that
just be comfortable and racing himself. That's what Charles Leclaire
has to do. And I feel like we are there
right now and I'm going to enjoy watching Charles race
moving forward. But yeah, it just it was just unfortunate
with the safety coin every then Ferrari, we gave it there.
Oh and we saw a paid dividend for them.
Speaker 5 (12:06):
Yeah, and milk. Maybe it's taken the entire season essentially
to get this thing right from the team principal aspect
with Frederick Vassur and the whole strategy right. But at
least you can take this forward into next year. We
were super optimistic that Ferrari would have all the pieces
coming together, at least a winner coming out of the
Las Vegas Grand Prix and a really good battle for
this weekend Mercedes v. Ferrari. Those two teams separated now
(12:29):
in the Constructors by just four points. All right, we've
got some other winners and losers. I did not have
a great week if you were listening to the show
last week, So we'll take a quick break. We need
to dive into what went wrong for the McLaren for
the Williams. We'll do that next. Talk to some other
winners and losers here as we wrap up our Vegas
Grand Free recap show on the VS and F one
Betting Podcast.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Welcome to Vson's F one Betting Podcast, the only F
one handicap you'll ever need.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
You're your hosts, F one technical analyst Mikale Miranda and
betting expert Ben Wilson.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
Okay, McHale, I'm sitting there early suck Saturday morning, after
watching day had called by it and over all, right,
should I just already mark down this Williams top ten
Alex Albon ticket I have in my account? Do I
do I mark down as a winner? Now?
Speaker 6 (13:28):
Do I?
Speaker 5 (13:28):
At least wait till the race starts and he avoids
a crash? And I'm thinking, Wow, how good did the
Williams look? Two drivers into Q three, each into the
top six, and then it just all went south and
they're getting past left and right. Neither driver finishes in
the points Logan Sargent had a he thought it was
his best chance of the year to get points. Didn't
work out, and the bet I really liked Albon minus
(13:50):
one forty to finish in the top ten. Actually that
does not pan out either. So what happened Mikhale to
the Williams in Vegas.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
I was looking at I just think that the Williams
when it came down to putting in the field of
the car and everything, they just it couldn't add up,
It couldn't do its job. I think James val is
going to take a look at that to see because uh,
that's been one of the achilles hell as well. Whereas
they can do a really great qualifying and at times
(14:19):
they could put the car at the points, but when
it comes to a tract that requires the maximount of
the car and the car just couldn't deliver. It comes
to big questioned. Also, it was unfortunate again with safety
car and everything. Some teams just did not maximize the
safety car. Some teams did. So that's all that it
(14:43):
comes down to me. So also piastre petted again for
another pair of hard tires, went on and he was
in P four for the for the remain of the
race until where he had to put the change tires
because again that's one of the technical directors for every
race you have to change tire compounds. So he did
change to the mediums, which he still finish in the
top ten. Right, So another thing to look at is
that maybe these tire compounds weren't the right ones. Everyone
(15:08):
loved the heart compounds, so maybe let's move the compounds up.
Instead of doing C three, C four, C five, you
go C two C three C four. That could change everything, right,
because then your hard timee becomes a medium tie here
and now you play with strategies again. As Charles said
that once you get those tires warmed up, if they
(15:30):
use tires, the safety goud comes out and you cool them.
The tire wanted to reheat these up to temperature changes. Right,
It's longer now, so you get caught out and cars
just end up passing, especially those you put on fresh
boots and come out right. It doesn't matter if they
use tires. They're just fresh boots for the race because
they've been in the tire blankets, so they're ready to
(15:52):
be up to temperature. And sometimes it's it's difficult to
just to hit everything in the right mark.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
I mean know mclan at.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Times have been questionable to say the least right, but
again I feel like they're a team who's gone back
into the infancy and are learning how to be better.
Right with the stuff that happened in Russia, Let's go
back a couple of years now where Landon Orris came
closer to in the race, right that this team is
(16:23):
really learning how to be a champion. So it's going
to take them while a couple mistakes. Yes they're eight
time Constructor champions, but that's way back then. Everything has
changed now and I believe Zach Brown is leading the
team into a great direction. So sometimes teams just need
to maximize everything that they have, and I believe Williams.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Did their best.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
It's just that their strategy didn't line up by what
happened on the track, and then it came down to
question do we pick again or do we just leave
the cars out?
Speaker 3 (16:54):
And that's what happened.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
So unfortunate circumstances, but thing the team will learn from
this and those try to figure out the best game
plan moving forward.
Speaker 5 (17:04):
Well, it's a good point when you think about just
relative to performance against your market value and where that's
pin off season and going back a few years, Williams
have been a team consistently at the bottom of the
Constructor's zero expectations and this is the first year in
a while now mkil where you go into each race expecting, okay,
this is a legitimate chance, especially in certain circuits in
(17:25):
Las Vegas. Looked on paper like one of them, where
the expectation all of a sudden shifts. Now it's no
longer okay, they'll lucky, They'll be lucky just to be
in the points. Conversation, it's now the expectation where ax
aalban was a pretty good minus money favorite to finish
in the points, and it's been that way now for
a few races running so I think can make a
good point. McLaren is another sort of another story in
of itself because of the huge improvements that have been made,
(17:47):
and we've also in a similar fashion come to now
the expectation of you know, Landol Norris minus money to
finish on the podium before the qualifying got underway. Yeah,
not a crazy thing anymore. I actually I liked norris
Is prospects heading into Vegas and then it just all
went wrong. Neither McLaren get out of Q one. You
get for the crash from Lando Norris. That good to
(18:07):
see was all right and cleared all the protocols coming
out of that crash, but he goes down pretty early
and it took a fortuitous break, as you talked about
Machae with the pit stop strategy for Oscar Piastre to
ultimately find his way into the points here. So for
a McLaren team that started off so bad had been
so strong for the better part of two months, what
(18:28):
did that race tell you about the McLaren here with
the one race still.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
To go, McLaren have a long way of understanding their car,
right they said they couldn't find the right balance. And
for a team, I get that free practice one was
it ended abruptly after nine minutes. But if every other
team can figure out what they need to do, why
is it that team who has made such ingrowns was
(18:55):
unable to determine the best form.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
For the car?
Speaker 6 (19:00):
Right?
Speaker 1 (19:00):
It's questionable there. So McLaren, they've got their new concept
in now it's time that they understand the new concept.
It's time they figure out how everything ebbs and flows
in order to get the best out of the car
and out of the drivers. Every weekend, so we everyone
thought that McLaren, well, they have these horrendous runs and
(19:21):
qualifying and great pace and doing the race, and they
did landon Norris and forutuily crashed out. The tires were
just cold and he could not get the rotation and
everything in and so it was a heavy crash out.
But if you look at Oscar Prstree, great run, right,
everyone had trouble on the medium tires. Even Max for
(19:43):
Snapping himself said that, hey, when we got to the
mediums just it died of so quickly. We were just
weren't good. The car just didn't feel right on the medium.
The moment upon the herds, the car came alive. I
was able to overtake, and that's how Max overtook four
p one against souls Leclair. Right, So certain seams have
inclinations to certain compounds of ties, but that doesn't mean
(20:05):
that you can't find the right balance. And these teams
need to be able to determine what is the best
possible set up to go into qualifying as well as
the race. You can't pick and choose which one works
for you because you get no points for qualifying, absolutely
zero points. So it doesn't really matter where you qualify
(20:27):
if you can't keep those positions.
Speaker 5 (20:30):
Yeah, and it brings up an interesting and interesting race
now because McLaren the lead over Aston Martin for fourth
in the constructors is down to eleven. And remember all
these places in the constructors there's a big, big discrepancies
as far as the allocation you get money wise, so
big financial implications here by each place you're getting in
the constructor. So these battles do matter as we go
(20:51):
to the final race week and out of the losing
column for McLaren that's now pitted up against an Asid
Martin team that has somehow found themselves here Michael, that's
one of our winners. We'll talk about double points. Finished
looking pretty spry nowt In the last two weeks Asid
Martin have looked like a totally different team.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
I feel like they're upgrad, are finally starting to work,
but they don't like they don't look like a different
team to me. It's been fortunate for what Lancetrow was
able to do. Great drive, but again inconsistency, so it
as well as actually eleven points, let's go to U
with w that's not one of Stroll's great tracks. So
(21:28):
we need to see each individual driver and the team
together as a whole. The driving driver pairing with as
Martin is not that strong. Fernando Alonso has carrying the
team on his back. Literally I'm not I'm not going
to say if it's back breaks, it wouldn't be a surprise.
But like, let's let's be honest, Like all the points
that as Martin has is due to Fernando Alonso. But
(21:51):
if you look at all the points that McLaren have,
it's both drivers, right if one if one fails to points,
the other one does, so they are trading points back
and forth off and supporting the team. Fernando is a
team in asked Martin lancetrowe very inconsistent and I don't
(22:13):
trust them in karensene, yes, it's eleven points. But McLaren
are the strongest team any day. McLaren is the stronger team.
Speaker 5 (22:23):
Hard to see a world in which you would have
anybody would have had the thought of Lancetrow going from
P nineteen to P five on their Las Vegas Bengo KRT.
But if he did, congrats throwhole passes up here Gasly
in the process for tenth and now in the driver's
Championship standings with one race to go. Speaking of mentioned
pier Ghasly and an Alpine It was an up and
(22:44):
down weekend for the Alpine. What a great drive by
Sabanocon getting into the top six, finishing fourth, but Ghasly
was in such a promising position his car didn't have
much pay slips out of the top ten. Overall, that
was an interesting week for kind of a when you
say micro cosm of the alpine season, you just have
no idea what's going to happen race and race out,
up and down within the same exact race for the
(23:05):
two drivers.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Absolutely, but I feel like over the past couple of
races have actually looked a little bit more consistent. Now
when it comes to bat and we always say four,
that's an important number, right, four You want to look
at the past four races, the past four games. The
past for anything is what you're looking.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
At for is an imports number.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
So they've looked pretty consistent in the past four races.
But now they're fighting for position in championships. It's not
it's no longer for it's the remaining right, let's look
at the entire season as a whole. They've not been
able to convince me that they're a good team to
(23:50):
bet on weekend, week out, you're going to have to
look at what the teams are doing each.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
And every week.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
And when you have to do that much research and
that much focus for a team every week, it can
take your eye off the ball. And this is a
betting podcast making money from betting. That's the whole point.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
That we're here for, right and my checked, yes it is.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
And if we're focusing on what Alpin can do, we
can weak out. It's like you're not going to do
anything from there. Well that that destroy your money in
the trash at that point, or ask Michael Lombardi on
the Lamart line, and Jim Shuffle says, it's the Saint
Dude's play. So you have to take a holistic view
at our pain. Yes they have up and down, but
(24:36):
they're always up and down. I just want some consistency.
I want them to focus on one aspect of the
team and work on that. I think that will propel
them so much more than having to have.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
Let's fix the car here, Let's do this.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Let's do this, like, guys, figure out the one department
that really needs work and work on that until you
can get that to a good place.
Speaker 5 (25:00):
I'm gonna say this, o Coon seems like a guy
who's just he's run hot and cold all year. This
is three straight races finishing in the points, five of
the last six now since having to retire not making
it through the race in the previous US race we
had in Austin. So he's in good form right now,
four points within his teammate Pier Gasley in the Driver's
championship with one race to go. All right, those are
(25:20):
our takeaways from Las Vegas. We can now turn that
attention and all the data we've gathered through the twenty
plus races this year into one more Abu Dhabi coming
up this weekend. Mikhale, you and I will be back
before we hit that Thanksgiving Some of us celebrate that
to holiday, Kail, It's it's kind of a big deal
here in the state, so we got to make sure
we view a full preview before the Thanksgiving holiday. Give
(25:40):
you all some hopefully some tasty bets to get into
the account for the last race of the season in
Abu Dhabi. We really appreciate all the support, had great
feedback as well from the episode. Last week was a
really fun week for all of us here and we're
trying to finish strong, one more week to go. Hope
the bets are a little bit better on the card
for this week. But we appreciate all of those of
you who are subscribed. I've been rating listening to us
(26:02):
as well, so we'll come back. Have another episode for
you this week, previewing the Abby Dabby Grand Prix. As
we say, so long, He's Michale, I'm Ben. We'll catch
you next time. One more in season race preview to
go here on the VS in f one Betting Podcast.
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