Our 2024 Second Base Tier List (with Jolly Olive)

Jolly Olive is back to tier list all of the 2B in baseball before this season!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, and welcome to Waken Jake tiar List season, myself,
Davis Wimbledon, and Jilly Goggos as we go through the
top second baseman today. There was a nice moment before
this where we were discussing which should we do. First

(00:21):
base got thrown out, Jolly got scared. It's a little
intimidated by the first baseman, liar. So we landed on
second base, and I got scared because I did my
top ten list last year and second base was my
most crucified list that I'm scared to dip my toe
back in, but I'm excited to do it with you guys.

(00:44):
Oh sweet, how about that? How are you doing y'all?

Speaker 2 (00:47):
Good? Feeling good. Had a nice busy Tuesday, just shot
a video with Joe's which is fun. And Jake, this
is a different ballgame. This is not a top ten list.
It's a tear list, Yeah, which means that if we
need to, we can put guys in the same tier.
And that's a big time case at second base because

(01:07):
I feel like a lot of these guys are really
really good, maybe not elite, but you can throw them
on one category and say that's a nice crop.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
There's a lot of action for the top and I
think we can check off the top unlike we have
with other lists. And last time we even left it
blank because we're getting ready for Evan Carter to do
his thing in left field. The six categories we currently
have lined up shop john Boy Media shop dot john

(01:36):
Boy Media. The six categories we have lined up shop
dot john Boy Media. Uh. Top one is can he
play baseball? Odd one for an S tier list, but
if you know, you already know, so we'll get there
in a second. Secondly, we have could win MVP, which
you don't expect that for a second tier, but some

(01:59):
of these second baseman, my goodness. The third category is
for war easy if you're familiar with the second base position.
If you can hit a little bit and field a
little bit and you're out there every day, you can
get for war. And so that column I think might

(02:19):
get full. And then jolly, I'll give you the honors
because this was a little bit of you and a
little bit of every baseball nerds categories.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
Some guys can hit, some guys can field, not everyone
can do both. For our hitting second baseman, we have
dan Uglo as a tier. Dan Ugla, you're not upset
with him in your field. I mean that guy could hit.
He played second base, maybe not well, but he was
an all star. That's one of our tiers. The other
tier Darwin Barney. Yeah, the guys that can pick it

(02:54):
haven't quite developed the stick yet. Darwn Barney was a
nice player. He was good, could really pick it in
the field. He's our fielding specialty.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
There, Darwin Barney. That is that is maybe one of
the last what he twentieth century second baseman.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
Jake, he led the league in d war in twenty twelve.
There was no better defensive second basement or defensive fielder.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
And we support that. We're happy, We're happy for him.
And then the final category again, this is a show
we support and love the players. That the final tier
is never going to be like Trscard. The final tier
has become a dan Or Darwin thought about making some
Darwinism jokes evolve become a lot of young guys and

(03:47):
I don't know, some other guys that pick lane pop
pick p a lp poup going back to our list,
are starting our list. And there was some off mic
arguments about this, and jolly, I will let you argue it.

(04:12):
I am going to put Mookie Bets in the Canny
play Baseball yeah s tier part of the list. If
you have the audio clip BBD, it is one of
the best audio clips ever made. I know you're doing
double time over there, but it's one of the few
things that gets me out of bed in the morning
is hearing a Rod make up a conversation he had

(04:33):
with Big Poppy years ago about a young Mookie Bets.
And I think this is open to debate, and you know,
we normally jump around here a little bit, but maybe
we just looky Bets.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
I said, Poppy, can you play baseball? He said, nay,
can you play baseball?

Speaker 1 (04:55):
Still not really sure what that is, but thank you, Rod,
And maybe this kicks off, Well, how about there there's
one guy, because there's going to be a couple people
that end up on that second row that are very
good ballplayers. Mookie Bets I have in a very rare air.
He was the best kind of defensive right fielder in

(05:18):
the game that is now casually playing second base, which
that in and of itself is something. And I think
year in year out, whom Mookie Bets is and where
he would be ranked on the top five to ten
players in baseball list. I think the other people trying
to make that argument can't make it as strong. But

(05:39):
there is one person that I do think full blown
deserves to be mentioned with him, but I don't think
he's on the same tier.

Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yeah, you mentioned a pre show argument. I was fighting
for recent World Series champion Marcus Semion.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
Fight for it, win me over a couple top.

Speaker 2 (05:57):
Three MVP finishes in the past few years. Even that
quote unquote down twenty twenty two, he's still a five
point eight war player, which is not exactly good. It's
on the elite level. Marcus Semion has become a plus
defensively in addition to the stick that he can swing.
But the thing is, we added a tier above could
win a league MVP for the guy that has already

(06:20):
done it. Muki Bets has already been an MVP. He
was runner up last year, came close on getting his
second one. There he is a league above. There's some
air of mystery, not really with him playing second base
full time for the first time, because we've already seen
him do it last year, and he did it incredibly well.
Because he's a freak of nature who also can bowl
really well too. And it bears mentioning. So Muoki Bets

(06:42):
I think he does have that head and shoulders above
kind of tier to him. And it is always nice
when we can put somebody at a definitive number one
and say this is the guy that runs the table
at this position. But Marcus Semyon is not incredibly far
behind in my opinion, and I still think he has
some great years ahead of him on a stacked Texas
were interesting.

Speaker 1 (07:02):
Simmons just kind of wild because he's almost reverse aging.
Like he has the breakout season in twenty nineteen with
Oakland's which that looks like the outlier, the shortened twenty
twenty season where he has to hit free agency after
fifty three not great games, uh, and then he totally
redeems himself with Toronto, signs the big boy contract with

(07:25):
Texas last year, like you're saying the war ended up there.
He plays great defense, He got his counting stats. I
mean a twenty six homers twenty five stolen bases. Yeah,
but I mean that stat line in twenty twenty two
two forty eight three zero four seven thirty three.

Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
I think Texas fans were a little at age thirty
one season a little hey, how are you?

Speaker 2 (07:48):
First year?

Speaker 1 (07:49):
The deal leads the league in hits and runs last
year twenty nine homers, one hundred rbi, fourteen steals, eight
twenty six ops. Third in the MVP. All of that
being said, where Mookie Betts's numbers ended up last year
thirty nine homers, three oh seven four away a nine

(08:11):
eighty seven OPS. At a certain point in baseball, and
if I have any Little league listeners listening, hitting matters more,
I'm sorry, Darling Barney. If you hit, we will find
a spot for you. There's only I would say, there's
two players in baseball every year that can hit. In

(08:34):
our struggling to find playing time, They'll find a place
for you if you can hit. I promise you that
it's not always that way. With fielding and Mookie bets
career nine hundred OPS, two ninety four batting average, he
usurped both those numbers last year. So again, father time,

(08:56):
both these guys are just punching in the mouth, and
Mookie Bets there's a chance to be like Inner Circle
Hall of Fame where Marcus Simeon I was a little surprised.
I mean, forty something career war for Marcus. If he
puts up a couple like last year and you compare second,
compare second baseman, the second baseman, he feels like the

(09:17):
next interesting Hall of Fame convo guy.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
He feels kind of like he could do the Beltray
thing where he was good those first ten years and
then he was great the last ten, which I'm excited
for as well. But it's Mooky. It's Mooky.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
It's Mooky. I the only thing I'd fight you on Beltray.
I mean, god, he racked up a lot. Yeah, like
I could Marcus Simon be a Longoria type conversation kind of,
but I don't know in a way he's peaking. So
Marcus Simon prove us wrong. But that was the original conversation.

(09:53):
And I think at the top of the second base
list there's a little one A one. I won't say
one B because I think Mookie's one.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
If all of.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
These players were presented in front of you and you
had to pick one guy for your season, I think
it's Mookie Bets. But Jake, I think it's Mookie Bets.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
I think there's a two A two B. If we
want to continue progressing.

Speaker 1 (10:19):
There is Let's go down the list until we stop
and we completely audible, because that's the perk of the tier.

Speaker 3 (10:26):
Lest introduce them.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
Was Simon in the same tier, I in a tier
below below, me in a tier below and one A
one B talk got me nervous, I was, I got,
I got nervous. But now this.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
Two B makes things very interesting as well. You gotta
respect resumes, you gotta respect Hall of Fame. Talking about
cooper'stown bound players, the guy that just signed a new
deal is going to retire with his team probably become
the greatest player ever in that franchise is history, and

(11:03):
it's JOSEL Tuove. I mean, he only played ninety games
last season, age thirty three season, gonna be thirty four
this year. I don't have to say. He's still had
a nine to fifteen ops and he's still jose Al
Tuova in the field, still stealing bags like he's still
that guy. So if you get a full even one
hundred and forty games out of JOSEE. Twove, it's a
shoein to be a top three second baseman in the league,

(11:24):
top two even. I think Semion's edge over him right
now for me personally, is being out there every day
Semion played all one sixty two last year. You can't
tell me that doesn't mean anything, especially when that team
goes on to win the World Series. The other thing
is like, you know, loaded Houston lineup. You can argue
that for Semion as well, but I think Age plays
a factor. But they're both here and could win a

(11:46):
league MVP, especially because you know, with no more Otani
in the American League, I know you got Judge her,
you got Sodo there. Obviously they're gonna be in play.
But like it becomes kind of fun again, becomes open, Like, oh,
I wonder who's gonna win MVP this year, And it
wouldn't sh shock me if one either of these guys
placed highly or two either of them just went off
completely and won an MVP award. I know a two

(12:08):
ve has done it before twenty seventeen. It was a
while ago at this point, but he's still that caliber
of player in my opinion.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
In twenty twenty two. He finished fifth in MVP voting.
In the past two seasons because he did get hurt
last year, he got involved in the season late, So
his last two seasons two hundred and thirty one games
pretty good. Sample three h four three point ninety five
twenty nine slug jeez a one fifty seven ops, Like

(12:37):
there's an John I'm I'm not because I'm I agree
with you on everything, Simeon. Someone could present a jose
Al Tuove over Simeon argument that outside of health can
be tough to defend.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (12:55):
What a freak. He would be the smallest person in
the room right now.

Speaker 2 (12:59):
Yeah, it's nuts, nuts. I mean, it's it's insane that
we get to watch these two play each other for
like the next what six or seven years at this point.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
Little Texas rivalry. It's fun that jose L Twove is
on that line with Simeon. Again. The second line is
could win MVP in those two could win MVP, which
is just pure insanity. I'm trying to see if there's
anyone else.

Speaker 2 (13:28):
I think a line in the sand gets drawn there,
you think. So, it's it's tough because you have a
bunch of guys and four more easy that I think
are really interesting and the upside is completely there in
a lot of different ways for all of them. But
if we're talking complete packages, and I know you know
a lot about that, it's those three guys bets, semi

(13:50):
and L two A one two three.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
I think you're right. I think you're right. I think
you're right. Thanks God, looking at looking at a lot
of pretty faces that play a lot of good baseball
and a lot of tears that I think could frustrate
people because I think a lot of I think a
lot of teams very much like their second basement. Let's

(14:18):
let's let's take a time from the top of the list,
uh in some bottoms. Yeah, that final column as you
mentioned the bottom three columns, which that's a rude way
to phrase it, because dan uggla had some massive seasons.
Darwin Barney your hero apparently Gold Glove winner, and then
we had to become Dan or Darwin. Let's check off

(14:40):
a couple names. Let's get a couple of the kids
out of the way. Like I think I'm seeing our
friend in Brewer that visited the office. Is that Bryce
terrang yep, I think picks it like the Dickens. I also,
his stolen base numbers impressed me. I saw them brief,
but I think I think uh, I think he was

(15:03):
taking the bags when he got on base. Unfortunately, I
don't think he was getting on a base yeah, a
lot next year. So hey, hopefully if those offensive numbers
tick up, Bryce Drank he's the kype kind of guy
that if he develops a little bit of an offensive profile,
he can be a four war easy. I mean, I

(15:24):
mean he's got to take us an obvious step. Yeah,
but he can run, he can play defense. So if
he can find his offensive lane, whether that's maybe a
low batting average with a little bit of pop or
leaning into the speed thing, getting on base a little
more and swiping thirty forty.

Speaker 2 (15:42):
Bags, I got something for that. Actually, sure, speed's there,
he's like ninety eighth percentele sprint speed had this wipes
when he got on base, can pick it a little
bit at second base two. He's twenty three. A guy
who I think he could be in three years is
twenty six right now, and that's Nico Horner. Nico Horner

(16:03):
was right around league average ops plus swiped all. I
sweped forty three bags last year because he was getting
on basemore and is obviously great defensively. So there is
a lane for Bryce Trying, who was a highly regarded prospect,
a high draft pick, to become someone like that. And
I think that's perfectly within reason. It's just you know,
he was a rookie last year. We haven't really seen

(16:23):
the complete package for him yet. But this is a
former first round pick. Like that's I think what the
Brewers are expecting of him. He has the chance to
become Dan or Darwin or potentially one of the four
War guys if things click.

Speaker 1 (16:36):
Be careful with your Nico Horner talk. That's one of
the guys that a fan base hit be jazzy about.

Speaker 3 (16:42):
I have a lot of respect for Nico Horner because
he has some variance on this list for looking at
Nico's page, a little Nico Horner.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
But do you see what I'm saying? Yes?

Speaker 1 (16:51):
Absolutely, And Nico Horner I just his his first sixty
eight games of his career. He had a seventy two
oh ps plus the light bulb goes on at age
twenty four, and he's The Cubs love him as their
second basement and he won the Gold Glove last year.
They love their middle infield, like the Cubs like what

(17:12):
they have going on there. Forty three stolen bases from
Nico Horner last year.

Speaker 2 (17:16):
People don't talk about him.

Speaker 1 (17:18):
I think we're about to. Let's get in some more
so where Bryce trying end up he's in the bottom row,
then become Danner Darwin. I mean what he did offensively
last year. Yeah, you Unfortunately you can't currently give him
the benefit of the doubt because yeah, two eighteen to
eighty five on base sixty two oh ps plus we

(17:41):
need a little more to chew on in that, we
need a little bit more to chew on the net
also on the bottom row. I think Colt Keith, no
offense Colt Keith, but we need to see anything.

Speaker 3 (17:52):
You've got to become something.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
I know he hit a lot at Triple A last
year and they're excited about him, which is why you
got the bag early. But yeah, we got to see it.

Speaker 3 (18:01):
For the same reason as Westburg there.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yeah seen.

Speaker 3 (18:05):
Yes, we don't know who you are yet.

Speaker 1 (18:07):
Yeah, need more of it. I know they love you.
A lot of these guys have had success at Triple A.
That's how you get two Z show. So yeah, Orioles fans,
you'll be instantly mad because you're about to tell us
that Jordan Westburg's the next one of your guys. Wouldn't
it be surprised.

Speaker 3 (18:24):
If he is over Puguero?

Speaker 1 (18:27):
Yeah, I mean I I'm not familiar with his game,
so Over, I didn't know, I said, to Kapita's name, Yeah, yep, Over,
I would love to become familiar with you.

Speaker 2 (18:44):
I have one that might take a little bit of thinking,
but I think it's become Danner Darwin. We've seen sixty
four games of him. He's around league average hitting wise,
a little bit of a minus defensively. Right now, had
to could didn't win the shortstop job. Vaughan Grissom, Who's
gonna get a decent chunk of playing time in Boston.

(19:04):
He is their second baseman, So I think we could
see something this year. But I think right now he's
become Danner Darwin.

Speaker 3 (19:12):
It's we want to see him becoming. It's fair.

Speaker 1 (19:14):
He's only played sixty four games. He technically has a
two eighty seven, three thirty nine seven forty six career
just in those games. He's very young, and I guess
we like players a lot. And it's where I tell
the people, I'm I won't be rude to the individual.
And it's baseball. One thing clicks in your swing. And

(19:35):
Bryce Ring's an All Star, came in kind of good
looking guy, tattoos Vaughan Grisham. I have a lot of
confidence next year he would be dan Ugla, but he
needs to show that he's never played a full season
of games. He's fine, he's getting his opportunity. He's oddly young.
I expect him to see him climb the list, and

(19:57):
I want to be shocked. Man, if he could be
become a four war easy guy, because I think he
can hit that. If he can play a lick of
defense at second base, which Braves fans said he can,
I think you'll see him up here, but he needs
to prove that. Let's see who else?

Speaker 2 (20:16):
Uh I have?

Speaker 1 (20:17):
Who is it? Luisa? Just he's young, he's played a lot.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
He's twenty three. Yeah, he's played four years.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
He's getting reps nuts. I kind of figure it out
by free agency. Kid. Curious where you guys land on
Brendan Rodgers. Looking at his page, I've seen some interesting
offensive years, a mixed bag year to year defensive war wise,
which makes me lean he's become Danner Darling.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
I think I'm in that boat as well with him.

Speaker 3 (20:49):
Let's let's do it.

Speaker 1 (20:51):
I guess here's my question. Sure we have three hundred
and seventeen games from Brendan Rodgers. He's got a little
bit of an injury history. I was wondering when you
were gonna come get your jacket, and we tried to
give it to Joe's and he wouldn't take it. To
take it out of the room to you and give
me Brian looking handsome. He'll be back. Brendan Rodgers open

(21:16):
won the Gold Glove last year, two years ago.

Speaker 2 (21:21):
That was not in my brain. That's crazy. Well, that's
a good point.

Speaker 1 (21:26):
Is he Darwin career eighty nine o ps plus.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
If we're gonna have this Darwin Barney category, we have
to put someone has to go in it. I'm down.
Let's put him there.

Speaker 3 (21:37):
You're putting Brendan Rodgers and Darwin.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
You want to go glove?

Speaker 3 (21:40):
Oh he has a gold Glove club.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
Oh so he's in. He's Nicky Lopez.

Speaker 3 (21:45):
I have Is Darwin Barney a bribe?

Speaker 1 (21:49):
Is that? Oh?

Speaker 2 (21:50):
Wow? So I get two dollars or ten dollars?

Speaker 1 (21:53):
Never been a math company. Congrats, Thanks and goodbye to Jimmy.
Nicky Lopez is on here he goes. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (22:05):
I think he's as a White Sox second basement right now.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
He did he hit a little bit when he went
over to Atlanta because I think there's just something in
the water that.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
When you got fire for a few weeks, when you're.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
Surrounded by great talent, you just hit a little bit more,
but still below league average.

Speaker 3 (22:20):
And I can't bank on him being a dan Uglow.

Speaker 2 (22:23):
He's a guy I did a video about before, so
I'm pretty familiar with Nicky Lopez.

Speaker 1 (22:27):
I just can't find his picture, so I'm moving on.
He's in a yeah, Oh my god, there's a few
braves in there. That's crazy.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
He was above league average for one hundred and fifty
games in twenty twenty one, played stellar defense. Maybe you
can still be that guy. He's Darwin Barney, though.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
When you put Nicky Lopez in your lineup he's nine,
you're expecting his page looks a lot like Darwin Barney's page.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
Right, he's Darren Barney.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
He's Darwin so far you're Darwin Pop. Okay, let's see
who else. I want to see if there's any easy ones,
and I'm not sure there are. When he fo is
a confusing one, Zachlof is a confusing one.

Speaker 3 (23:13):
Adam Fraser's an old become Danner Darwin.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
Yeah, I kind of I like him on the list.
I mean he's just Adam.

Speaker 3 (23:21):
The defense doesn't grade out his own tier.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
I mean, he's kind of just Adam.

Speaker 2 (23:29):
He's not Danner Darlin.

Speaker 3 (23:30):
Look, I'm not gonna if you want to make an
Adam Fraser tier that's making Adam.

Speaker 2 (23:35):
Frad I kind of like an Adam Fraser tier above.

Speaker 1 (23:40):
I think it's above, because at least he is what
he is. I know what I'm getting from Adam.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
I have it below Darwin, Yes, and above become Danner Darwin. Yes,
that's what I said. It's just tough with having sometimes.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
Three having two names make up three categories, it gets
a little tricky. But that's where Adam fred truths. We
love Adam Fraser, obviously you do, and we'll talk about
him getting to the Royals next episode.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
But I think Renitho goes in Dannel Darwin two. It's
been hitting a little bit though.

Speaker 3 (24:15):
H he might be He might be Adam Fraser.

Speaker 1 (24:20):
Renhifo is one of the trickiest ones on.

Speaker 3 (24:22):
The list, and that's we might have a circle back.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
Sometimes I say stuff like that and I remember how
beautiful it is to be a sports losercause in truth,
what are we doing? What are we talking about switch
hitter Luis Renjitho. He's now part God. This is gonna
be his sixth MLB season. He's turning twenty seven in

(24:45):
six days, so get your happy birthday. Luis Renhifo tweets out, uh,
he has shown sign of progress in twenty twenty two.
He had a one oh two ops plus. In twenty
twenty three, AH one eleven ops plus where he had
sixteen homers and he went nuts in the second half.
I believe he got bench right right and then he

(25:09):
kind of went off his second half splits from last
year UH three eighteen three, seventy four and nine to sixty.

Speaker 3 (25:16):
Ops's fifty games.

Speaker 1 (25:19):
Whoa, he's a lefty mauler, nine to twenty eight ops
first lefties, and he was seven to twenty seven verse right, Jake,
I have good news, Okay, he's the.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
Third percentile and it's above average.

Speaker 1 (25:33):
So we have dan Ugla hopes for Luise Wren.

Speaker 2 (25:35):
I think you could convince me to put him there.

Speaker 1 (25:40):
The company he keeps is going to be tough for
Luise Wren, he felt.

Speaker 3 (25:44):
I think the more we fill that in, the more
he ends up in Adam Freezer.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
I think if you just take those last two years.

Speaker 1 (25:50):
Though, you know, he is one of the more interesting
personalities on this Okay, I'm gonna leave him off for now,
but there's an argument to be made. Let's go to
four war easy and hop back up. Let's get in
a little more rhythm and again for second base, like

(26:11):
I laid out earlier, if you're picking it, that's gonna
be about two war. And if you have an offensive
skill over one fifty games, that'll be about two war.
That you can become a four war second baseman. I
don't want to say easily, because that's downplaying it a lot.
But there's a good group of ball you can you

(26:33):
could regularly see yourself there. Like a guy that I
can almost guarantee you almost no matter what happens this year,
will get four war. Is Andre Semenez.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
Yep. Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (26:45):
I couldn't believe. Even with the offense the season he had,
which was ended up right around the league average, I
think he had a nicer second half.

Speaker 1 (26:52):
Cleared four war by a lot, five point three, five
point three, fifteen homers, thirty stolen bases. Yeah, back to back.
Gold Loves has a Plattie as well. That Yeah, if
he taps into his twenty twenty two where he had
a one for one ops plus that's pretty special, and

(27:13):
he hits at least a bit formerly Met.

Speaker 2 (27:16):
Former Met who we really basically the only good part
of twenty twenty for the New York Mets. A lot
of bad things that you're a lot of bad pitching,
Andres Amenez was an absolute delight to watch. It was
tough to let him go. I mean, obviously you take
Francisco Lindor in that trade. He was tough to let us.
I'm really happy Cleveland fans are giving him a lot
of love because he deserves it. He's a great player. Jake.

(27:39):
For this tier, I did a little stat head butter
knife to try and to try and raise things on
us a little bit.

Speaker 3 (27:45):
Get get at least get a starting point.

Speaker 2 (27:48):
I can rattle some of those names, if that's something
you want.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
I want to dogalize Ozzie Alby's first. But I want
to do one more thing with Andre Semenez. Okay, one forgot.
He got an extension seven years, one oh six in Cleveland. Okay,
they like him, Okay, buckle up. He's gonna start making
twenty three mill a year in twenty twenty.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
Seven deserves it. But I forgot about that.

Speaker 1 (28:13):
But I was just gonna say this next year for
me is super interesting for him because to make that
kind of money, you do have to be a slightly
better hitter. Yeah, and I think he has that, Like
his career numbers are now a one ten ops plus
and if he can do that with his fielding. But
interesting year. A lot of things didn't go right in

(28:35):
Cleveland last year.

Speaker 3 (28:37):
Yeah, if he repeated last year, Cleveland fans are telling
himself about the first two years of this steal haven't
gone according to play.

Speaker 1 (28:43):
You're getting a little slightly nervous about the contract.

Speaker 3 (28:46):
And it's not like an all time bad situation, but like,
but it's not fun.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
His uh, his September really picked up his numbers too.
He was below seven thirty ops in every month and
then eight in September. So hopefully that's a sign of
things that he figured out at the end of the season.

Speaker 1 (29:06):
Age twenty five season, I think there's more like I
think if there's a player that could jump into the
could win MVP, sneaky Andre Semnez. If he goes back
to his twenty twenty two I think he has more
hope than some of the well, I shouldn't say some
of these other guys. Baby, do you threw the Ozzi

(29:26):
Albis out there when I mentioned second basement and getting
chewed up for how you rank them. Ozzi Alby's was
one of the guys for me that braves fans and
rightfully so will go to war for Ozzi Alby's, yep,
because he is a switch hitting second baseman eight forty

(29:46):
nine ohps last year again kids the hitting matters, thirty
three home runs. He was heard in twenty two and
twenty one. He also had thirty home runs. There was
a old in baseball history where that didn't exist from
a second basement, and Ozzie Albi's doing that as a

(30:06):
switch hitter. You see this guy a lot, y'all.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
I mean, he's an absolute nightmare, Jake. I mean, I
wouldn't wish him upon anybody. He is one of the
most pure hitters I've been able to watch in the
NL East. He led all switch hitters and home runs
last year as a second baseman, mind you. And yeah,
I'm willing to fully admit that I was on the
underrating or I guess people are overrating Ozzi Alby's trained

(30:33):
before last season, and then he put up those numbers
and rightfully shut me up because he is incredibly good.
He is a forward, easy player, because he's not a
negative defensively at all, and he hits maybe better than
anybody else in this entire tier. He deserves to beer
and just.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
Your annual reminder, seven mill this year, seven mil next year,
team option for seven mil. Team option, Jake, team option
for seven mil in twenty seven. There's two, there's two.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
There's it's a nightmare, so Jake, I uh, it's a nightmare.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
I hope Ozzie can be good for four more seasons
so he can get the bag he deserves to get.
And that's a brutal.

Speaker 3 (31:24):
Ask I'll every car dealership in Atlanta is giving him every.

Speaker 1 (31:30):
We'll buy your car from Ozzie Alby's uh for for
war Easy and Jolliver, you're an NL east man. I
think Bryson Stott has a compelling argument.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
Yeah, man, I mean he's a piece for the Phillies.
I think he him and Ozzie are very interesting because
they are caught in lineups where everyone is really good,
so maybe they don't get the shine they deserve and
Stott is obviously a defense whizz, but he also hit
like really well last year and has kind of shown
up in the playoffs for them as well. He's a

(32:06):
really fun player to watch, a former first round pick,
so like again, he's he's part of the plan in
this Phillies infield, which BBD loves so dearly. His thing
that I think a lot of people didn't notice is
that his last month kind of stunk and it tanked
a lot of his stats for the year. At the
end of August, he was a seven to ninety ops guy,

(32:26):
which would have put him in much more favorable OPS
plus territory. So I think he's a four were easy guy.
He was four point three last year. I think he's
gonna get better this year because we're only really seeing
the beginnings of Bryson Stott and again, just another great
second baseman. And there's still one we haven't mentioned in
the nalyst that I have to watch day in and
day out terrorize my Mets.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
I know the stolen bases numbers took a jump last year,
obviously new rules, thirty one stolen bases from Bryson Stuck,
fifteen homers, thirty two doubles two to eighty. So yeah,
I mean I thought he was going to be their
shortstop of the future. I like the way he played shortstop.
They happened to have an owner that said, hey, why

(33:11):
don't we sign Trey Turner Bryce, and Scott said, that's
good by me, that I will be interested. And this
isn't to be rude, but baseball happens quick for any player.
It can go up or go down fairly quickly. More
guys down. If I'm being honest, there could be a
chance we look back at this list next year in

(33:32):
Bryson Stott is almost like, oh my god, we thought
pencil him for four war In theory, he should be.
He's a young, good ballplayer that should be getting better
in a good lineup. But I don't know. It's just
how baseball works sometimes. I'm not saying it's gonna be Bryson.
But that's why people do lists every year because it
changes quickly that I don't know. I'll be interesting to

(33:54):
see if he lives up to that, because he should. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:00):
It leads to another discussion that I think we'll have later,
because this tier has the chance to get fat because
there's a lot of good second basement like that, there's
two more or three more math I have the more
that we should highlight you that already cleared for war,
and then some last year fun fact, there's nobody who

(34:22):
is above three and below four, so there's a drop
off after these guys, and.

Speaker 1 (34:26):
That's kind of the point of the category.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
Kind of cool.

Speaker 1 (34:29):
You're good enough, you're gonna get four.

Speaker 2 (34:31):
Nico Horner, Katel, Marte, Luis Ariaz all four point nine
or more, and they all kind of did it in
different ways, which I love. Luise Arias batting champ, Nico
Horner maybe the best defensive glove on here, and then
can tell Marte a little bit of everything. It's great.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
It's a unique grouping of players. Arise, who part of
the conversation last year was chasing four bills batting average
wise crazy came down from that, still put together a
very nice season three ninety three on base, three p
fifty four batting average. The problem for him for a
while was finding a position. I think the defense still

(35:13):
isn't pretty. But when you can do that, when you
hit like he hits, doesn't matter, doesn't really matter. Cautel
Marte obviously, Jake Snake's chipping in here. Switch hitter had
moved around a lot, center field, shortstop, second base, kind

(35:35):
of locked in now. And I know this postseason a
lot of people got to watch him a lot. I mean,
twenty five career war last year's stats an eight forty
four ops, twenty five home runs.

Speaker 2 (35:52):
Yeah, and if if we want to do money talk again,
that's another contract that looks awesome for Arizona. Not quite
to the degree of the Albis with the whole seven
million thing, but for a player that was gonna get
MVP votes like Ketel Marte, the fact that you're getting
him next year for thirteen million, I think you're pretty
darn happy with that because he does it on all

(36:13):
sides of the ball man. I mean, you have to
see it firsthand in the playoffs with that hit streak.
It's really nice to see him return to form, especially
after like that twenty nineteen season. You could have written
it off a little bit because the numbers they pop
there three twenty nine batting average, thirty two bombs, ten swipes,
nopus near one thousand. Last year he was he proved

(36:35):
that he's this kind of player, which is really exciting
for Snakes. Fans because he is a cog in that machine.
He's not the guy, but he's a really good player.

Speaker 1 (36:44):
He's a guy.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
He's a guy. Corbyn Carrol's the guy, though.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
He is the gang.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
He's the guy.

Speaker 1 (36:52):
Nico Horner we've kind of covered. Yeah, the five War
guy last year won the Gold Glove, forty plus stolen bases,
his game better. Yeah, yeah, Yeah, we.

Speaker 2 (37:06):
Like Nico Horner. I would like him on my team.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
And look at his stats one more time. Do we
like it that he goes by Nico? I kind of
we have another option, says Nicholas.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
Is he He's the only Nico in baseball history. You
look up Nico's there's no one else there.

Speaker 1 (37:22):
Okay, then I love it, kind of love you win
Stanford man like Trev two eighty three, three forty six. Yeah,
not a ton of pop, but forty three stolen bases
and a gold Glove? Do you Nico Horner? We're all
about it.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
Wow?

Speaker 1 (37:40):
Uh and yeah you know about that A rise guy.
So yeah, I do have one more.

Speaker 3 (37:47):
I think it's time to bring up because you think
he's firmly at least at this level. Yeah, yes, he's
new to the position.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
Yes, that's that's that is news this week as we're
recording this, Xander Bogarts, Yeah, no argument against it. I'm excited.
It was tough should rack up even more defensive war there.
It was tough to draw the line in my head
where being an obnoxious Yankee fan actually was. When Xander

(38:17):
was a Red Sox, there was times when his defense
was lackluster at shortstop, to say the least, And I
couldn't tell how much of that was me being biased
or how much of that was what Xander Bogarts is
going to hit. He's Zoh's like favorite player ever. He's
had a one twenty ozerps plus for the last six seasons.

(38:45):
So and I have a theory developing. Maybe it'll be
a jolly Alli video one day. When guys move off
a shortstop and go back go to second base, I
think it's less wear and tear in the body. I
think it's less of a mental exercise that Biasly we've
seen Glabor Torres do that in recent years. I know

(39:06):
Nico Horner came up and was playing a little shortstop.
I know a lot of guys move off shortstop, but
I think that could only mean good thing for Xander
Bogart's who he had his career high in stolen bases
last year with nineteen.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
Yeah, I was gonna mention about that one bomb in
one swipe from a twenty twenty season. Then you can
kind of mark that up and go, oh, well, that's
interesting for Xander. Big thing here, which I'm curious to
see how he starts next year. Xander Bogarts had a
tourd month of September where he had an eleven hundred
ops and that really like even things out for him

(39:42):
at years then because it was looking so good in
August he was.

Speaker 3 (39:45):
A terrible sandwich with great bread.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
Yes, April and September he was hot and his numbers
land in a great place. And I think it's kind
of like that first year contract thing that we see
with a lot of players. I think he's gonna be
good next year, and I think second base is only
gonna help because it's exactly what Jake said. And even
regardless of whatever defensive woes you might encounter with him,

(40:08):
he's been well over above four war for each of
the past. Like Jake said, five or six full seasons
can't count twenty twenty, so five.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
Full sentence that one six more twenty that is that
was on pace for a four eight exactly, so clearing.

Speaker 3 (40:23):
It easily every year, including last year. That this is
like a weird one I got for him and the padres.

Speaker 1 (40:31):
Hey, let's play a fun game. You guys like games again.
Currently on the four War Easy list, Andre samanez Ozi, Albi's,
Bryce and Stock tel Marte, Nico Horner, Luisa Rise and
Xander Bogarts.

Speaker 2 (40:47):
Good list.

Speaker 1 (40:50):
You're the GM of the expansion. What team was built
in a stadium? The other day salt Lake Portland Pioneers
and a pass and had an article I think today
kind of saying Nashville and salt Lake City tell me
I think it's happening, like I think the Salt Lake
government it will have. Salt Lake government was like, this

(41:11):
is a plan for our new MLB stadium and everyone
was like, you don't have a team though contracts do
not matter. It's one season m for the twenty twenty
four season. If you had to pick one of the
four War easy second baseman, who would you pick?

Speaker 2 (41:30):
I think I have my answer actually pretty quick.

Speaker 1 (41:33):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (41:34):
We talked about how like Nicos the defensive whiz Luisa
is the pure hitter andras defensive whiz. If I'm going
for like who's gonna be my franchise guy of my
expansion team, I have to pick the guy that I
think is the most well rounded because if he does
everything great, that takes him to MVP caliber level, And

(41:55):
for me, that is interesting. It's kind of between him
and Xander. For me in terms of like what guy
could really be like a guy guy for a team,
we've seen Kittel do it. I know that he's been
off and on, but I really do think last year
was a sign of who he really is as a ballplayer.
And Xander, I have to see it at second base.

(42:15):
I know it's kind of like he's a short sop
he can play second base, but like I have to
see how he makes that adjustment and if he can
be consistent offensively compared to last year. Whereas Katel, he
did it on a national stage like that kind of
it does it for me. So I think if I'm
picking one from this really really really good group of six,
it is Kaittel.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
Maybe ding hmmm. I could be talked into just about
any of these guys. For me, I think I lean
Xander the composition of last year is kind of freaking
me out. But in general, every year he really hits
the field at least enough for second base to be good,

(42:54):
clear's forward easily, So I think he's my guy.

Speaker 3 (43:00):
I feel more locked into what I'm gonna get on
the whole from him. But the month by month stats
last year are a little freaky, but that's not like
typical of them, that's just what last year was.

Speaker 1 (43:12):
I'm excited for socials team to make a graphic because
no answer is wrong. My initial heart jumped to Ozzie
Albi's the problem.

Speaker 3 (43:25):
I hard jumped to him first two.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
And problem is loosely used here but against right handed pitching,
and this has always been the way for him. He
was an eight h three oh ps last year, which
again is very good for this exercise. He kills lefties
three ninety one A one two three verse lefties, so

(43:49):
when you see a lefty, you now have an MVP
level player in your lineup, which that's pretty nice. And
against righties you still have a very good level player,
but you see a lot more righties. I think I
still go Ozzie. He's gonna be twenty seven next year,
thirty three homers last season. There's no wrong answer, there's

(44:13):
not there's not but it I don't know. It also
doesn't part of it doesn't feel right, Jade. Something something
about his ops plus year to year didn't compute in
my head. When I was looking at him, I was
like that, like, by ops plus last year is the
clear outlier. I was like, what, There's something about him
just doesn't feel right when trying to hyper fixate on

(44:38):
on who he is compared to.

Speaker 2 (44:39):
These Guys's a little bit of the injury stuff, I
think too, because if he's healthy, he's the best hitter
in this crop. I think. But what that exercise or
that game if you will, did for me was it
kind of told me that there there is a line
after these guys. Because I look at the field below them.

(45:00):
There's a lot of interesting seasons and a lot of
interesting tools for all the guys that we have yet
to list. But I don't think they fit into four
war easy. I think there's another tier below it.

Speaker 1 (45:12):
No, and I'll start off with a name that probably
a lot of people may assume we talked about earlier,
Glaber Torres. Sure seen the life cycle of Glaber Torres.
I think he has one or two four war seasons.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
Twenty nineteen has to be there.

Speaker 1 (45:27):
Right, And no, it's funny a couple of these guys
have very juicy twenty nineteens him could tell Xander that.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
Was wrong between ninteen he's a short stop.

Speaker 1 (45:39):
Twenty twenty two. Believe it or not, he forwarred, right,
I was. I was a little surprised either way. The
point is he's not stumbling into four war right. He's
got to put together a good offensive season, and he
needs to do enough defensively, which he has lapses defensively
that have hurt over the years. He's not a great

(46:00):
base runner, where a lot of these guys are getting
base running points. Almost anyone we've mentioned above, Glabor Torres
on this list currently can run outside of a Rise
who won the batting title and is don't need him
to be hitting, and probably Xander Bogart's who outran him

(46:21):
last year and has been hitting for the past six
years to a decade. So I think Labor Torres is
a dan ugler. He's out there to hit. He's not
really out there for his defense. And I'd say it
in kind of a good way. Again with this Dan
Uglick category. Glabor can really hit. It felt like a
light bulb went off last year. He is still very young.

(46:44):
I know that used to be the joke, but he's
twenty seven for this whole season.

Speaker 2 (46:49):
So yeah, I like that Shapiel. I mean contract here
for him, so you could be seeing potentially a really
good version of him. I have another name that I
think fits here. I don't want to be disingenuous to
him because he did win Rookie of the Year not
long ago.

Speaker 3 (47:09):
I've got him here.

Speaker 2 (47:10):
Yeah, Jonathan India. He hits for sure, and he gets
a little bit of the great American Ballpark factor going there.
But at the same time, eighth percentile and outs above
average and first careers of one of five ops plus
and he hits more home runs than I think you'd
expect from a second baseman, which is what the Dan
Uglick category is. So he is kind of here with

(47:31):
Glaber in my opinion, it's.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
A little bit of a pivot year for Jonathan India,
and there's been a lot of trade rumors. Yeah, but yeah,
I mean coming off that Rookie of the Year that
is his best season. He was hurt in twenty two
and he missed a chunk of games last year that
now we're talking about position battles in Cincinnati. I do think,
and this is my Eddie Rosario theory of baseball. Where

(47:58):
you hit in a lineup matter. Yeah, And in twenty
twenty three, Jonathan India led off a lot, he hit
third a lot. Those were his two most common locations
in the lineup. Yeah, so that means something.

Speaker 2 (48:14):
Yeah, definitely, absolutely, Like I it's what you said before,
It's baseball happens fast, Like Jonathan India was in like
Cornerstone conversations when he won Rookie of the Year for like, Okay,
we're looking at the future of a Cincinnati team, and
then the future kind of happened last year with McLain,
with day La Cruz, with Steer, and he kind of

(48:35):
got He kind of became an afterthought a little bit.
So I'm curious to see what exactly the plan is
with him. But of objectively, as it stands right now,
he's a bat first, second baseman.

Speaker 1 (48:45):
Yes, yeah, And I think he's penciled to like d
H because they again they're just running out of spot first.

Speaker 2 (48:51):
Sounds like uglo.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
I think this is an interesting one. That I think
falls into it easily. Is Brandon Laue, Oh right, and
landed the rather for me, I mean Brandon Loupop's thirty
plus next year, no one is surprised. I don't think
he's really truly been out there for his defense. They've
also moved him around earlier on his career. Last year,

(49:15):
it looks like he only played second base or DHD
in one hundred and nine games.

Speaker 2 (49:20):
Last year.

Speaker 1 (49:20):
He had twenty one homers a one to thirteen ops
plus in twenty twenty one thirty nine.

Speaker 2 (49:28):
Jeez, I always forget that he did that.

Speaker 1 (49:32):
Career one twenty six ops plus.

Speaker 2 (49:35):
Yeah, he's weird, man, because the if you're an ounce
above average person, it's a little inconsistent.

Speaker 3 (49:41):
It's pretty much bad everybody.

Speaker 2 (49:44):
Except last year. Last year it's actually pretty good. But
he's never been a positive DWAR guy above zero point five.
So if you want to go by that, I think
that works. And he is a home run bat in
the middle of the race line. That's kind of what
they like him for. So I don't hate it, honestly,
I don't hate him being there.

Speaker 3 (50:01):
Yeah, when is he and if Rais fans want to
start yelling at us saying he fields. I'll take both
of them on.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
Yeah, I mean honest eye tests and raised like let
me know. I mean Brandon Law has always been fine.
But it's also I've never looked at him and thought bad. No. Yeah,
it's also never felt like a threat of don't don't
hit it that way.

Speaker 2 (50:23):
Also one four war season.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
But not a lot of guys can hit thirty nine
home runs and he's done that and not a juice
ball year. I guess twenty one they had a little
gideo but nothing like, nothing like previous.

Speaker 2 (50:35):
Jake Okay, India, Lao Torres all one four war season.
They've all put it together for one year, but just
consistent enough to be in that upper echelon. So I
think they fit here.

Speaker 1 (50:47):
I think another guy that can go there. He has
some massive seasons, and he's been moved around and he's
always remembered to be traded or hey Polanco man, Yeah,
finally happened. Guys, Guys had a guys had a lot.
Let's every time I bring up his page, I get
a little shocked.

Speaker 2 (51:02):
He's another poor percentile ranking outs above average, but he's
just been hitting.

Speaker 1 (51:07):
Forever ops pluses from twenty eighteen, not including twenty twenty one, ten, one,
twenty one, one, twenty five, one, fifteen, one, fifteen, I.

Speaker 2 (51:18):
Mean nineteen and twenty one. He's really good for the Twins.
But I'm I don't know if he's that guy anymore.

Speaker 1 (51:24):
Yeah, I mean the thirty three home runs. I value
switch hitting, Yeah, totally so the Mariner And this guy
has hit for his career. Although a lot of contract years,
it feels like goes to die in Seattle. I don't
love that for him to Oscar. But my guy, my
guy has stayed hitting throughout his career.

Speaker 2 (51:48):
So if we're all on the string page, we have
we have seven guys left.

Speaker 1 (51:53):
One, two, three, four, five, six, seven.

Speaker 3 (51:56):
I've I have eight, I think eighty eight. We didn't
place s when Hepho yet.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
I haven't placed him. Uh. I think I've got one
that I'd rather move on quickly because otherwise it could
lead to a ten minute conversation. Calvin Bigio is Adam.

Speaker 2 (52:12):
Fraser sure gets on base.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
He did for the second half of last season. He's
been tortured a little bit by the Blue Jays. He's
moved around a lot, he's been out of the lineup.
I hope it clicked for him last year.

Speaker 3 (52:27):
Adam Fraser's a little bit same story. He's been forced
to just like go play some left field, right field
a little bit, probably.

Speaker 1 (52:33):
Get along pregame. When you see guys running to get loose,
they'd say, hi, by second base, what's up man, how's everything?
I'm super season's getting you. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
But the my problem is that not a lot of
the guys we have left fit anywhere.

Speaker 1 (52:50):
I think I have one.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
Oh, I'd love to hear it.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
I might have one. It might be the same one.
I think Nolan Gorman is Dana. I haven't looked at
the defensive numbers, but he hits, he does hit. He
can't his numbers for a young second basement negative d
war both both years in the show.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
But Cardson very like excited about him.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
It's a compliment. I have labor Tore is in the
same category.

Speaker 2 (53:22):
Like, that's true. I keep yeah, I have to train
my brain to say that Dan uncle is not a bad.

Speaker 1 (53:27):
Category like two thirty six, three, twenty eight and eight
oh five. Ops, that's very nice from a twenty three
year old second basement I admit that, Yeah, but also
what does that turn into? What does dreams of more.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
Yeah, because I think you have to think, like, what,
he's twenty three last year. I mean we were just
talking about how like Bryce training, he's twenty three, you
could figure it out. Gorman's already doing this at twenty three.
So what is he in three years? You know what?
I mean? That's what except the.

Speaker 3 (53:54):
Bat, make all the plays you need to it. Second,
I think he could have.

Speaker 1 (53:57):
I think he can get to four were easy, easy,
But he's shown me no signs he's not gonna hit.

Speaker 2 (54:03):
Yeah, Okay, I'm okay, I'm okay with it. I'm mad.

Speaker 1 (54:08):
Twenty seven homers in one hundred nineteen games last year. Yeah,
I mean that's that's a hitter. I saw Trevor.

Speaker 3 (54:14):
Plof draft him in a homer draft. Did he really
like Trevor Goose and I might have been his teammates?

Speaker 2 (54:21):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (54:23):
What is Jeff McNeil.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
Hmm, it's tough, dude. I mean, he's one of the
guys that I feel like doesn't really fit anywhere. He's
not for war easy, although he is a he's a
treat to watch play. In my head, he feels utility,
Like I don't even refer to him really as second
base because he plays like just as much outfield. Last

(54:47):
year he was around the league average hitting, even though
the year before he's a batting Champ, MVP of Votes,
Silver Slugger, and he's had two five war seasons. Jake Like,
that's no slouch, Like that's a guy that's done it.
He's just he's not consistent. And Mets fans are very
understanding of this at this point, that he's one of

(55:10):
these guys that makes me feel like we need another tier,
But I don't. I don't know what it is and
where it goes.

Speaker 1 (55:16):
I guess for me.

Speaker 3 (55:17):
And who another tiers now fall into that.

Speaker 1 (55:20):
I'm maybe I'm not interpreting the category exactly the right way.
But Jeff McNeil's out there to hit, right.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
I don't know if you can comfortably say that, okay,
because I don't think you can make him a DAN.
I'll go because he is a plus defensively, like that's
where a lot of his value can.

Speaker 3 (55:41):
He hasn't had a negative D worst season, no crazy
positive ones. But I think he's I think that set
struggles with guys that move around.

Speaker 2 (55:50):
He's eighty third percentile outsabove average last year ninety fifth
the year before, like one of the best field kicks
in baseball. Okay, first the year before that.

Speaker 1 (56:00):
I'm I'm willing to put him on pause for a second.

Speaker 2 (56:03):
I think we have I don't because I don't know.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
I'm willing to put him on pause because I might
open the floodgates for another tiers.

Speaker 2 (56:10):
I can't in good conscience argue to put him with
those guys in four wor easy right now because he's
not there.

Speaker 3 (56:16):
There's a guy who I am similarly to him struggling
to figure out where he is placed, and that's Matt McLean,
who did not clear four war. But is it a
good glove? In my head, he's moving. It seems like
not gonna play a lot of shorts up. I think
they'll still be He'll still be involved there, but that

(56:38):
should be.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
A positive insect eighty nine games he had a three
to seven war. You only played eighty nine games? Over
is he four?

Speaker 2 (56:52):
Worries?

Speaker 1 (56:52):
He?

Speaker 3 (56:53):
So he's four?

Speaker 1 (56:54):
I think there's a discussion.

Speaker 3 (56:55):
I thought he played like well over a hundred just.

Speaker 1 (56:57):
A really tough sport. This as a first round pick.
All of the Reds hit last year, which makes everyone
just feel weird about it except their top guys.

Speaker 2 (57:08):
Ellie, I think we need to I think we need
to bounce back to BBD's idea before the draft. I
think it's a solid tier. I know you don't like.

Speaker 1 (57:20):
I don't the lights off and kiss you want to
do that? Maybe that's my usual go to.

Speaker 2 (57:24):
I don't think it's a mean tier.

Speaker 1 (57:27):
What's the tier?

Speaker 2 (57:27):
The tier that BBD thought of. I don't want to
take credit for it. It's four War not so easy.
These guys can do it, but there's the consistency, or
we haven't seen enough of them yet, or there's a
missing part of their game. But they're not dan Ugler
or Darwin Barney. They're more well rounded than that.

Speaker 1 (57:48):
Thoughts I'm in, I'm in a tough spot.

Speaker 2 (57:52):
To me, give me a dollar.

Speaker 1 (57:55):
Zach Giloff.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
He was good.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
That Geloff was really really good. Matt McClain was really good. Like,
you can't call it, but I can't bank on four War.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
You can't bank on it. You don't know played sixty
nine games. That gel Off was really good.

Speaker 1 (58:15):
So between four War easy and dan Ugla, I guess.
I guess it's just tough because it could be easy
for Matt McClain.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
Could be sure. I'm not shutting that down by any means.

Speaker 1 (58:31):
I can't pencil it in right now, but like it
makes placing McNeil gel off and even like Bryson Stott
a lot easier Stott, I'd be comfortable with him, and
I'd be a little more comfortable with him Noddy, because.

Speaker 2 (58:49):
Stott doesn't feel like he's part of that group either.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
He feels like the odd one out in that four
were easy category, right, Like I if I'm using my
own arguments against me, where it does Bryson Stott hit
in a lot of lineups seven eight? I guess it
depends on the team. I mean he's on a very
good team.

Speaker 2 (59:10):
See what you're saying, I misunderstood the question.

Speaker 1 (59:12):
But no, I guess I'm trying to think Bryson's like
I looked at Nico Horner. Nico Horner was at the
top of the line up a lot. I mean they're
kind of similar hitting profile.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
You can even repose your question from before about which
one you would pick. I don't. I don't think anyone
would have said no.

Speaker 1 (59:26):
One jumped to stop.

Speaker 2 (59:28):
So that's my rationale there.

Speaker 3 (59:31):
Fangress has in pencil at six. I think that's some
breaking up righty stuff with with the Phillies, but yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:39):
It's good. Another name, another name we haven't really mentioned,
who is young and very good, is Eddie Julian.

Speaker 3 (59:47):
He's Dan the ouglyph for me right now.

Speaker 1 (59:49):
Three eighty one on base last year you really.

Speaker 3 (59:52):
Hit and but the fielding is bad. Until they moved
off Polanco, they were going to just put him at
first and park it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
But I'm just worried. If we're I guess, let's create
this new category. We can make it for war, difficult, defeatial, creative,
because if Eddie Julian can't play defense, he has to

(01:00:22):
be a really good offensive player. He might be though
to be for war.

Speaker 2 (01:00:26):
Because he wasn't close to four war last year and
he had more games than McLean and Galoff.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
The problem is, dude, this guy might be able to
really three eighty one on base. That's something like this guy.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
So okay, let's let's craft this tier.

Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
He has a chance to be like special because I.

Speaker 2 (01:00:44):
Think everyone we just talked about or referenced like goes here, Stott, McNeil, Galoff, McLean, Julian,
and I think you can argue for McClean. But the
games is tough for me, dude, It's true, doesn't pay at.

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
I guess I just I thought I had a fake
epiphany of labeling it something like chance to be special.
But when you what do you label a rise? Like?

Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
Hey, what about bullet? Ever really talked about him?

Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
I love Tyro. He almost doesn't have a cut because
he's he's like a two Warriors. Yeah, he's gonna do
just enough offensively, just enough defensively to be two war Which.

Speaker 3 (01:01:32):
Again about the problem on your team.

Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
We're kind of finding out is among second basement isn't
the most valuable asset. Although I love myself some Tyro strata,
let me look at Tyro's numbers one more time.

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
I don't know where to put on.

Speaker 1 (01:01:50):
He's a plus hitter. It's just like average for war
not as easy range factors one hundredth percentile.

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
So he just put he might be bullet as a
middle tier in all capital letters.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
I kind of want to put it bullet Fraser.

Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
That feels disrespectful, So.

Speaker 3 (01:02:15):
I'd be interested in the bullet tier that's between ugly
and Barney.

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
And do we put Tyro and Renhefo together?

Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
They're just bullet. Yeah, they go, They're not Adam Fraser. Jake,
you're getting exasperated.

Speaker 1 (01:02:37):
What I was worried about?

Speaker 3 (01:02:38):
All Right, Adam Fraser having a friend there in Cavin.
I'm I'm comforidented.

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
That's nice.

Speaker 3 (01:02:44):
I'm pushing for him to be involved.

Speaker 1 (01:02:47):
I'm putting names on the board because I need to
stop looking at them off the board. I'm putting Julian
as for were not easy for now. I think there's
an ug look, I just can't bank on it. I
think there's an ugly discussion. Uh, Jeff McNeil or were
not as easy, Matt McClain forward not as easy, which
just feels bizarre because he almost did it easily. But

(01:03:10):
it's hard to believe that's gonna happen again. Is that
gel Off?

Speaker 2 (01:03:14):
Yeah, dude, he was the only reason besides Brent Rooker
to watch the A's.

Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
He's good, he's gonna play, and he's gonna play really
hit positive defense. In seventy games he got two six
more in sixty nine games.

Speaker 2 (01:03:32):
Nice.

Speaker 1 (01:03:33):
So, okay, I guess this is where this is where
tears in my head are bumping a little bit, because
the game we played with four were easy of who
would you pick. I think that's a fun, great baseball conversation.
I think if we if you pulled the thirty mlbgms,
I think some Jimenezis would come back. I think Albi's

(01:03:54):
would come back. I think Kateel would come back. I
think come back. I think Bogarts would come back. Would
Niko maybe, but gets for ward. I guess if Jimenez
you'd say they get a couple of votes for for
War Not as Easy, which I currently have. Eddie, Julian,

(01:04:15):
Jeff McNeil, Matt McClain, Zach Giloff.

Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
And Scott I have there too.

Speaker 1 (01:04:20):
You lowered him.

Speaker 2 (01:04:21):
I lowered him is what we said before.

Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
Okay, I'll do.

Speaker 3 (01:04:24):
It, but I lowered him. I don't feel I don't
feel kind about it. I like him. I mean, if
he does it one more year, he's for We're Easy,
I think, but.

Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
Like Brandon Low versus Zach Goloff next year, Brandon Low
versus Jeff McNeil, I.

Speaker 2 (01:04:43):
Would take go Off and I would take.

Speaker 1 (01:04:47):
Wow Jorge Polanco first. Julie, I don't know. It feels
like we're giving guys some stripes before they've earned them.

Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
Defense matters the.

Speaker 3 (01:04:58):
Twins literally picked Julian over the offense.

Speaker 2 (01:05:01):
Man, I think that's sort.

Speaker 1 (01:05:03):
Literally did pick Julian over Polanco.

Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
It's a good point. Like, I think the only thing
I discuss here really is maybe Gorman goes up. That's
kind of it. Glaber's proved he's not a glove guy.
Law has proved he's a power bat. First, India, who
knows they're not they're thinking about not playing him at second.

Speaker 1 (01:05:25):
Yeah, I mean, I guess this is kind of funny
Eddie Julian being on the line above Polanco, Matt McClain
being on the line above Jonathan India.

Speaker 2 (01:05:36):
Who they chose, It kinda is perfect.

Speaker 1 (01:05:41):
I'm going to rearrange it so they're literally above. Yeah,
you swear on you swear on my life that Jeff
McNeil's better than Glabor Torres.

Speaker 2 (01:05:49):
I would take Jeff, but I'm wearing a Mets hat,
so like take that with a heavy grain of salt.
And the Mets lineup needs home runs, so maybe you
are you need Glabor, But like I take Jeff. I've
seen what Jeff can be. Jeff has two five war seasons,
Glabor isn't then, and.

Speaker 1 (01:06:06):
Then what's going on with Tyro.

Speaker 2 (01:06:08):
And I think they're in their own land. I think
they're bullet. I think they're bullet.

Speaker 1 (01:06:15):
It's below dan Ugla.

Speaker 3 (01:06:17):
I have Bullet as below above Darwin.

Speaker 2 (01:06:20):
I think I'm with you because they kind of do both,
just not particularly well. There are two war guys. What
do you not like him?

Speaker 1 (01:06:31):
I mean I do.

Speaker 3 (01:06:32):
It's just I we can call it too war easy
if you want.

Speaker 2 (01:06:36):
I don't hate that. Because dan Augla had a couple
of four war seasons.

Speaker 1 (01:06:42):
We can do too war easy, okay. And then does
anyone end You're so upset? Oh god, I just accidentally
clicked the wrong way.

Speaker 2 (01:06:50):
You're so upsetting.

Speaker 1 (01:06:52):
Okay, So that's like too or easy after dan Ugla.

Speaker 2 (01:06:56):
After dan Augla is ren hefo and and.

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
Bullet too war easy?

Speaker 2 (01:07:03):
What is Fraser doing the season a season basis?

Speaker 1 (01:07:05):
And then does anyone else end up there?

Speaker 2 (01:07:09):
Now Fraser hasn't had two wars since twenty twenty one.

Speaker 1 (01:07:12):
Okay, Yeah, those guys can really hit.

Speaker 2 (01:07:19):
Yeah. Maybe put Adam Fraser above Darwin Barney.

Speaker 1 (01:07:26):
Adam, Yes, yeah, because I'd rather have those guys.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
I think I would. I agree with you, And then
I think that's it, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:07:37):
I I think.

Speaker 2 (01:07:38):
It's your This is the most conflicted I've seen you.
Are you getting flash?

Speaker 1 (01:07:42):
It feels better than left field left field, left field
left field, because this feels right. I do feel like
the for War Not Easy crew is being disrespected, really
or excuse me, I think I think the dan Ugli
crew is respected a little bit because it's almost the devil.
You don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:08:03):
It's I was gonna say that exact thing. It's it's
a they're a victim of having more playing time. There's
no mystery to those guys, if that makes sense. Like
we kind of know who each of them are. Maybe
not Gorman, which is why I was okay with potentially
moving them up. But that's who they are. They hit,
and they hit well.

Speaker 3 (01:08:22):
They're limitated by their defense like they could be, you
know what I mean, Like them in a game and
you're not mad exactly. That's true, Like nobody in four
or Not So Easy. I wouldn't put any of them
as DH except for maybe Julian. But if he's playing
second base, he's hits at a little bit above what
I've seen those guys hit in recent years.

Speaker 1 (01:08:45):
He hit substantially more than that in the one year.

Speaker 2 (01:08:47):
Okay, this was a good one.

Speaker 1 (01:08:50):
I've been convinced, Yeah, this was fun. Second base man,
this is uh again when I was doing then in
his top ten. There's a lot of guys gy that
have compelling arguments. Brandon Lowe goes for forty homers this
year might look foolish, so the game from the top.
Can he play baseball? Snookie Betts could win MVP, Marcus

(01:09:14):
Simon and Jose Altuve for War easy him, menez Albi's
Marte Horner, Arise, Xander Bogart's new to the second base
list for War Not as easy, Eddie Juliet, Jeff McNeil,
Matt McClain, Zach Gilauf and Bryce and Stott ended up

(01:09:37):
down there, which it felt like he got four War
kind of easy four point three, but it does look
balanced out, uh, Dan Auglais, Jorge Polanco, Glabor Torres, Jonathan India,
Brandon Lowe, Owen Gorman. Man, those are guys that just
aren't gonna hurt your team at all. Two War easy,
Tyrone re Renhifo. It just want to put what are

(01:10:01):
what are the California teams? San Diego doesn't count. I
was going to try to put all them on a line.
They Dragon Glaf, Adam Fraser is Adam Fraser and Cavin Biggio,
Darwin Barney, how about this? Brendan Rodgers and Nicky Lopez
didn't didn't have that and then become Dan or Darwin.

(01:10:26):
Some guys will probably have stronger feelings about next year.
Some young blood's on here, Jordan Westburg, Bryce Terraing Colet,
Keith Yover Piguero, Vaughan Grisham and Luis Garcia. Man, that's
a young crop. Did Jordan Westburg do anything like it?

Speaker 2 (01:10:44):
It was an one hundred ops plus sixty eight games
sixty eight?

Speaker 1 (01:10:51):
Yeah right, I didn't know.

Speaker 2 (01:10:54):
I don't know. Adam Fraser at.

Speaker 3 (01:10:57):
One point two don't know?

Speaker 1 (01:11:00):
If that's too easy? Yeah easy? Now I think we'll
find out. We'll let them decide. Guys, girls, thank you again.
Thank you to Jolly Olive second base. That middle tier
that's uh, what's uh? Pulling?

Speaker 2 (01:11:22):
Pulling strength?

Speaker 1 (01:11:24):
What's the phrase when something's so narrow?

Speaker 2 (01:11:28):
Threading the needle?

Speaker 1 (01:11:30):
Comment below? What did we get wrong? Who did you
get right? Thank you to King Bebes. We'll be back
next week.