December 28, 2020 • 43 mins
Mike is celebrating one year of sobriety from sex addiction and as part of his continued work on the condition, Mike and Jana talk to Brianne Davis, an actress and recovering sex addict.
Hear a woman’s perspective on what its like to live as a sex and love addict and how Brianne’s life has changed since she opened up about her struggles.
And Jana reveals what will happen if Mike relapses again.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Wind down and radio podcast. You know, I'm never the
culprit of misplacing things, really not as often as you.
But I was just trying to find my car keys
that you misplaced about in the start of quarantine. Still
can't find those bad suckers. I think that was actually
(00:22):
like a year ago. No, it was when we got
the chickens. It was the day of the chickens when
my keys went missing. And thank you, but you have
it's like you you say to me all the time,
that's been my what's that thing called? Like? We're my kicker?
Was that know? What's it called? Like? Where I'm like
(00:42):
my trump card? Because he's always like you don't ever,
which is funny because I always put things back in
its place. But I have a tendency to be like, oh,
where's my phone or where is like this when it
comes to like my personal things. But every time you
say that, and I'm like, I don't want to hear.
I was like, you lost my keys. No matter what
it is, you always bring that up. There's nothing I
(01:03):
can do about it. But why were you saying that? Oh?
Because I was frantically looking for my phone just now
and I thought I lost my mind. I didn't even
remember the last place I had it. And the best
part about that, though, is he was looking at for
his phone getting so minutes flustered. It was like thirty
and and he's like getting all like worked up, and
(01:25):
I'm like, okay, well, let's just retrace your steps, like
let's figure this out. And he's just getting more flustered
and flustered. And I was like, I am to go
to the bathroom and then I'll come look for it
the first place I look. Of course it was there.
I was like, I always got to check the couch.
That's like, I checked all the couches and chairs except
(01:45):
for that one. Well, I hope all of you all
had a great Christmas, however it was spent. I'm so
excited for the new year. I can't wait. I have
a fear though, around the New Year that everyone like
people already put a lot of weight in like new Year,
knew me, it's new year, like whatever. This year especially,
(02:06):
I feel like people are gonna put so many eggs
in that basket, which is great, they should. I'm going
to do that. I'm like, what can I do to
you know, feel my best, look the best, be healthiest, like, yeah,
but you'll fall through and do it. But I'm saying
people might have such high expectations because they're like, well,
it's just naturally going to be better because it can't
(02:28):
get worse than this year, and who knows it might.
I mean, I think, you know, I think the expectation,
like you said, is really high. But I think it's
really bad to set expectations just in general, because you're
gonna get let down. And there's a difference between setting
expectations and setting goals because there's people there's people that
(02:49):
are like, I don't set goals because then that way
I won't be let down. Don't really work like that,
but okay, teach their own. But I mean I do think,
I mean, hopefully it's a better year. But the same time,
I still kind of where as you think that I'm
not half full in this area of my life, is
where I'm like, no, it was a yeah, I was
troubling and there was hard times, but I also I'm like, okay,
(03:12):
what's what was the what was the positives? All the
time we spent with our kids all the so it's
like I try to think about those things to be
like Okay, you know, how can I bring some of
those things that I learned to do better in a
better person, as a happier person, as a more patient person.
Look at that Mama Jane dropping knowledge on inspiration on everybody.
(03:34):
I'm not I'm just saying like, but like, I'm just
excited for those opportunities. And you know, it's not Christmas
anymore because we're on the brink of another celebration. You know,
I have a hard time calling it a celebration. And
my therapist even got on me, got on me for
(03:54):
this last week because it'll be a year of sobriety
for me on New Year's Eve and so just my
my shame and stuff wants to just not should let
light on it at all, um and just treat it
like another day because it is. And I don't know, man,
(04:20):
it's just hard because I think I have a lot
of shame around it with you know, I wish this
was the four year you know what I mean. And
it's like thinking back on the you know, bumps and
major obstacles that we faced the last four years. It's
(04:44):
just you know, four or five years is it's just
hard to to not look back. And I'm sure you're
the same way. Yeah, I know. I talked about with
my therapist last week in it was one of those
things where it's like, you know, I was like, how
(05:04):
do I balance because I'm like, I'm angry, but I'm
also wanted to be supportive. I was like, how can
I balance being supportive and being really triggered and really
hurt and let down without you know? So it's like
I'm like, how do I how do you balance that?
Because I'm like, this is his third or second, third
or second birthday I've thrown you where it's like I'm like,
(05:26):
I don't want to bake a cake anymore and now
I'm angry, like how many more one year cakes am
I going to make? You know? And I don't want anything,
like I don't So I think that's like, you know,
but I'm like, but I want to be supportive, So
I'm like, how do you balance that? That walk with
like wanting to be a supportive spouse but also being like,
well how many more times are we going to throw
this party? You know? We're going to have a good
(05:50):
friend of yours, um Brian Davis, who is openly a
sex addict as well love addict, sex and love addict slaw. Um,
and we'll have her on and we'll kind of talk
about some of this, you know, because she's been sober
with eleven years. Yeah, she just celebrated her um eleven
(06:11):
year sobriety on December six and Brandon I did a
movie together. Um we met on prom night and sorry
the movie prom night and um, yeah, we we just
we've stayed in touch. Um. But it's it's funny just
to like tea up Brian a little bit. Um when
I was doing Dancing with the Stars. And by the way,
(06:33):
she's gone on to you know, be on TV shows
like six and Tree Blood, Um, jar Head opposite Jack
Jill and Halli. She's you know, she's an amazing actress
and you know she's you know, she's she's really really good.
She's gonna be on Lucifer this next season too, yep. Um.
And then so we kind of lost touch a little
(06:53):
bit when I was doing the country stuff, but we
always you know, said hello, and you know Facebook or
whatever it was then my Space, I don't know. And
when I was doing Dancing with the Stars and all
of the stuff came about about your sex addiction, she
reached out to me and was like, hey, you know,
I would love to meet. So we met at Katsuia
in Um, California, in the in the valley and um,
(07:17):
you know, and I just kind of thought we were
gonna have like a bashing session about you because you
were in rehab and um, and she was like, I'm
actually a sex and love addict and I was like what. So,
you know, I I learned a lot from Brian and
she's kind of been my sponsor. Like she was the
(07:39):
one I called when I found out about you hiding
like the fake accounts last year and the deleting of
the you know, your messages with the woman so or
the lady or whatever, and so you know, I called her.
So she's kind of always the person that I've called
in those moments and when I'm like, you know about
ry to jump from a bridge to me to be
(08:00):
like what what do I do? And how do I
handle this? And you know, I think she you guys
even spoke at a time or two during last year
and stuff. Um, because she's very much in her program
and you know, she's a sponsor to a lot of people.
And I mean eleven years is incredible. So and just
you know, her stories, and but I'm really excited to
have her on. But first let's, um let me check
(08:23):
in with you, Mike. How are you feeling, just like
diving into this again? I think it's it's uncomfortable for
me as well, um, because I don't want to really
shut a light on it. I just want it. It's
just another day. It's just it is, and it isn't,
you know. Um. And for me with my my personality
(08:45):
of nothing ever being good enough, like things that I
do not being good enough, I'm just like, all right,
what's like I might feel the same way in ten years. Alright, Okay,
it's ten years whatever, keep going right, but you still
should celebrate, like one year is great, Like you've stayed
to our knowledge, You've stayed straight, you know, for one year,
and that's a big accomplishment. Now if you get two years,
(09:06):
you will never like you can be like, hey, I've
never hit two years before, Like that's great, you know, yeah,
I mean it should be encouragement. You should celebrate it.
It is. I'm encouraged that this is a legitimate year.
That's nice, you know what I mean. Like, so it
does feel different, but it's you know, again, it's it's
just still uncomfortable. You're lost, you know, for both of us.
(09:30):
So all right, well let's take a quick break and
then we'll get Brianna. All right, so super excited because
we have Brian Um with us on Wine down yours.
(09:51):
Are you still in l A right now? Yes? I am,
I'm an And are you going to stay in l A?
Are you thinking about going back to I don't know,
a girl, I don't know what we're doing at this point.
I don't think anybody does. You know, we're just literally
hunkered in our house and not going anywhere. We're getting
everything delivered. It's crazy how scary it is right now
(10:13):
in l A. Well, I can't even imagine. But on
the flip side, congratulations, you just celebrated eleven years of
sobriety in December. So yes, I haven't brought my chip.
Look I got I was like, oh I should probably. Wow. Yeah,
that's awesome. Good for you, Brian, Thank you very much.
(10:34):
You know, we're just talking about you know, sobriety and
stuff because I know Jane shared with you to be
a year from me um this week, and I guess
my question to you to start off as I'm still
not comfortable with it, but you know what I mean,
it's you know, I think even more so because it's
(10:55):
a year and this is the second or third time
that we've quote unquote celebrated a year. And I was
telling you, I was like, this is my first legitimate year,
which is nice. Um, yeah, but still it's there's so
many feelings around it because of setbacks in the past
where I have a hard time acknowledging it. Yeah, I
get it. I mean, nobody walks into those rooms thinking, yeah,
(11:19):
I guess to be a part of this group of
like sex addicts or sex and love addicts. And the
problem is it's such a great area and it's so
hard to get sobriety in the program that there's people
slip all the time and they don't talk about it.
But I think that's the beautiful thing that you're doing,
is talking about it. But we shouldn't have shame because
(11:42):
this is one of the hardest diseases ever to get through.
And I've said it before, like they say, a is
the last, you know, house on the block you want
to go to. But then like sex and love addiction
and stuff is like the shack and the back you
like don't want to go to like it's the worst
place in the world. So I get it. I mean
(12:04):
I can even hear that like shamefulness that you feel.
I'm wearing it thick, especially as as we're getting closer. Yeah,
it really is. And yeah, it's just hard and uncomfortable
and you know, it's just one of those things. But
I think we're just taking it in stride. Yeah, I mean,
(12:25):
like we were kind of saying earlier to brand I
was saying, you know, I was talking to my therapist
and I'm like, it's hard for the partner. I feel
like to because we have celebrated it two or three times,
like because I still want to celebrate him because I
think it's amazing, especially you know, Okay, it's going to
be on New Year's Eve, Like what a celebration what
I like, you know, this is amazing, you know, of
(12:46):
one year. But then I'm like, it's like the other
part of me that's like I don't want to. I
don't want to because I'm like, how many more are
we going to throw? And that's where like my the
negative and the fear, the fear part comes in with
with my side of it going, well, you know, are
we gonna have to celebrate another one? Is this going
to be? You know now is New Year is going
(13:06):
to be a trigger holiday because he might relapse again
and be like, oh, we could have been celebrating here,
you know. So it's like it just sets more in
more like trigger trigger places and trigger holidays and trigger
because it's like there aready, there's enough triggers in the
world as it is. With this, it's like, I'm like,
how how am I supposed to like And I mean
(13:27):
we talked about live with my with my therapist, but like,
like to walk that line is so hard because like,
of course I want to celebrate him. I don't want
him to feel shame, but I'm also terrified out of
my mind. Well I can understand. I mean, when any
I and I speak to a lot of partners, it's
so interesting that we're talking about this. I had someone
reach out yesterday. He's the partner of someone that you know,
(13:51):
she keeps cheating on him and he keeps going back
to her and she's holding onto him. And I was
just telling him, you have to understand that when a
slip happens, it has nothing to do with you as
a partner. It has to do with the addict feeling
out of control, feeling, you know, like they're not good
(14:12):
enough to be truly loved and they don't know feel
like they can love and be loved. So I first
would say, yes, New Year's Eve, celebrating a year again,
it's got to be very difficult for you. But it's
also he's doing the work. If he wasn't doing the work,
if he wasn't you know, going to therapy, going to meetings,
(14:34):
talking to his sponsor, then I would say there's a
huge problem there. But he's doing the work. And I,
as your friend, have seen so many people change and
know that on the other side, like he will be
you know, it's just gonna be a year, and it's
two years, and it's three years, and every year some
new layer is going to expose itself and as a
(14:56):
partner you just have to kind of be along for
the ride and not take it. But the relapses keep happening.
Then then it's kind of like what you said to
me last December. You're like, he's not doing the work,
Like you can't put your foot in forward either way
if he's not doing the work. Yeah, and I said
that too. I was like, if he's not doing the
work and he's not taking it seriously, then you've got
(15:17):
to get out, you know, because just like my husband,
if I'm not doing the work to better myself and
to get out of my is ms, it's not fair
for him to stick around. Brian, when did you decide
to be public about being you know, in slaw and
sex and love addiction. Well, that's a funny thing. I mean,
(15:37):
when I hit ten years, it was this moment and
Jan and I talked a lot about it because we've
been doing that project we've had together, and um, it
was this overwhelmed. I spoke at this meeting and I
spoke for forty five minutes, and it was a meeting
all around the world over the phone, right and you
(15:58):
can call in and even message for the speaker, and
I got all these messages from all over the world,
and it was such a beautiful moment for me because
I felt this, like, Wow, I've hit a decade, which
is crazy. Like when I walked into the room, I
couldn't believe someone. I remember this guy speaking and he
was like, I have eight years, and I was like
(16:21):
eight years. I can't even get through a day right now?
You know, like I was in so much pain and
he the when he was speaking, and now I'm on
that other side. It's my it's it's it's almost like
God gave me this gift to be the voice for
a woman sex and love at it, because women it's
more shameful as a woman, I feel, you know, it's
(16:44):
more like it's even when a Jane and I were talking,
you remember, You're like, it's not real. It's a man.
Remember he said that to me. I was like, um no.
But I just felt like, here's my chance to give
my experience, strength and hope to a bigger than just
Los Angeles. And I wrote this Hugh Post article coming out,
(17:08):
you know, as a sex and love attict, recover Sex
and Love Attic, sharing one of my bottoms, and it
was the best thing I've ever done. It was terrified,
but then the feedback has been so beautiful and like,
my girlfriend has this problem. I have this problem. I
can't like stop cheating, I can't you know, keep d
(17:29):
m NG guys like everything. And I just felt of
such service that it just made me think bigger than
just myself for sure. I mean it is, you know,
even with negative blowback, or whatever. I know, for me personally,
just with our story being out there, the amount of
guys that have reached out to me or message me
or whatever, and that I've met with and talked with,
(17:50):
that's more fulfilling than anything else I could have imagined.
And really for me, I've experienced that it inspires my
you know, my recovery and everything because you're just add
you're including more people like within your story and your circle,
and it's like, yeah, I don't want to let down, Gene.
I don't want to let down myself for my kids,
but you have all these people kind of leaning on you,
(18:11):
and you just want to continue to be support for them.
And for me, it's just I think that's been a
big part of why I've been able to get to
a legitimate year is honestly us talking about it so
much in which aspect just because more people, so many
people have reached out, and so I just feel encouraged,
Like it helps me feel encouraged with what we're doing,
(18:34):
as opposed to as much shame, you know, I mean,
because people lean on me, Guys lean on me, you
guys reach out to me and want to talk about
these things. So it's just an adelayer for it. It
makes us accountable. Also, it makes you accountable, like do
you want to go do this thing? I mean even
just that chip, that little teeny's you know gold chip.
(18:54):
I remember when I was driving to get my six
month chip and I talked about this a lot that
like somebody like I was intriguing with texted me on
the drive to get my six chip, and I remember thinking,
do I do what I always do in text back
or do I do something different and go get that
(19:14):
plastic red six months chip, Like that was more important
at that moment than you know, getting my high getting
someone to fill me. But I also have to congratulate
you in the sense of I don't know at my
one year if I could have been so public. There's
(19:35):
something also has to be difficult that speaking out at
such a vulnerable place, because I remember at my one
year I literally wanted to crawl out of my skin.
I felt like I was like a snake like trying
to shed its skin. Does that is that how you feel?
Because that has to be a lot of pressure at
this and it's been an unfortunate hat to wear like
(19:57):
this early in my recovery process, especially over the last
four or five years or four years that our story
has been out. But that's the thing. My anonymity was
was taken away from me. That wasn't my choice, and
so I've had to write it out, you know, and
it's it is hard because then when you know, I
did have you know, the setback last year, and it's
like we essentially have to publicly address it, you know,
(20:21):
that's that's it sucks to really for both of us,
not just me, but for both of us to for
janit to feel embarrassed or to feel sadness around that,
for me to feel shamed and embarrassed as well. And
so it's you know, it's not easy. And but again
we're just you know, we just have to keep talking
about it and and leaning on each other around it and
(20:42):
be able to express our feelings. You and I, yeah, yeah,
because I don't know if my husband, I don't know
if Mark would have been able even you know, he's
sober like thirty something years and his his own addiction,
but that would have been really hard on our relationship
the first year going through that, Because did you feel
(21:04):
like this first year was like your first you know
the other you know, three years ago? Because the first
year is the worst. It's the worst. You feel like
you're dying. Yeah, you know, because I've I've still been
in the program for four years now, it's felt simpler
at times because of those initials, just like even though
(21:25):
you're doing the work, you feel like you're white knuckling
every second of the day. Where I've I've gotten past
like that, that kind of those kind of places where
you know, when I first entered the room, the whole
lust of the mine will go away. I didn't believe
that was ever possible until I started getting some time
together and and so now like those kind of things
are are aren't an equation, you know what I mean,
(21:48):
it's as much it's it was just it was still
getting to that level of comfortability with myself, and it
was just I was just a hard time doing that.
The initial stuff was okay, but I just had a
hard time maintaining it because eventually I just kind of
fell off the wagon. I'll just be reaching for something.
I don't know what it was, well, anything to fill
(22:11):
that whole when we're feeling even this morning, I have
to tell you, like a part of me was like
annoyed that I was on a Zoom one of the
Zoom meetings you know that I go to every morning,
and people were just annoying me, and I was like,
why am I so irritated? And it makes you want
to like reach for a cookie, are reached for your phone,
to look at Instagram, anything you can do to get
(22:33):
out of feeling discomfort. And as an addict, especially a
sex and love addict or a sex addict and being
addicted to people that we have to sit in this
discomfort and be okay with it. And it's like, who
wants to do that? Who wants to sit and discomfort
and be okay with you? Know? I was, I was
(22:53):
on a twelveth sevenon this morning and guy said something
great that was being real time just with something he
was dealing with, and he was making that point. He
was like, you know one is too many, A thousand's
not enough to exactly your point. You like to take
that distraction or take whatever. And I was like, man,
it's it's so true, because you know, you have still
have those moments where you're like you just want to
(23:14):
run away from whatever you're feeling. And I'm sure people
who aren't even addicts have that right. They feel their
void with something and it's like, again, one is too many,
thousand's not enough. It was just it got me today.
But don't you feel grateful a little bit? I mean,
I have to tell you we have the tools. Can
you imagine not having the tools and being in this
(23:37):
world pandemic and not being able to jump on a
twelve step meeting in the morning, when your kids are
driving you crazy, your significant other you're just feeling discomfort, Like,
I'm so grateful. I'm extremely grateful for that, and I
mean I'm not. I mean it's from a not codependent way,
and I'm grateful that I have GENA because I know
(24:00):
not to compare, but I know so many other spouses,
are so many other guys that are in worse situations,
you know, with their significant other. And just the fact
that I have a wife that's able to navigate through
things as well as Janet ultimately can is a game
changer for me, just being someone who does have some
codependency tendencies and stuff and just wants to rely. You know, hey, honey,
(24:22):
how am I feeling today? Like that kind of thing?
To have her has been a big pillar in my
ability to you know, feel sane at times. Honestly, along
with the work of my program, do you ever ask
her to like fix it for you? Not anymore? No,
like I'm able to I'm I'm getting better at allowing
(24:45):
her to have her feelings, are allowing myself to have
my feelings without putting that on her. But you know,
I'm Jane got was reached out by somebody um anonymous
a day or two ago. And because you sponsor so
many people and have so much time in this program, brand,
I wonder what your advice would be for somebody that
(25:07):
maybe that's listening, that maybe going through a new discovery,
especially during the holidays. Because Janna got a message about
she just found out her husband was a sex addict,
and it's around the holidays, and it's like, what do
the what does that other person do to stay sane
during this time? I mean, that's a that's a loaded
question because there's no right way, like I said to Janna,
(25:31):
and and like I stay to anybody listening. If you're
with a sex addict, a sex and law addict, a
love addict, a codependent, any of those things and they're
acting out outside of your relationship, one number one, you
can't fix them. It's not Janna's responsibility to fix you,
it's not my husband's responsibility to fix me. And they're
(25:53):
not reason enough for us to get better. So if
you're struggling and your partner is at doing out, you
have every right to walk away. Now I know kids
are involved. I have a kid also, And if that
person is willing to step into a room, step into
therapy to get help and find out why they are,
(26:18):
you know, watching too much porn, disconnecting, masturbating too much,
disconnecting with other people, all that stuff that we as
sex and love attics tend to do. You know, if
they're willing to look at the reason why it's worth
walking through that fire with them, if you love them,
because on the other side of it it's such a
deeper connection, then then I have ever experienced, like my
(26:44):
husband and I are more connected ever than we were
like sixteen years ago, and it was because we walked
through the pain, walk through like where does he contribute
to my addiction? Where what are the things I'm doing
not to completely have both feet in our relationship. So
if you're out there and you just bound out this information,
(27:06):
you know, I would look at the pros and cons
is the person willing to do the work, and then
you have to make that decision for yourself. Brian, why
do people still um Like a lot of people will
say and leave comments like oh, that's just a you know,
married's man excuse, or like they don't believe sex addiction. Well,
number one, I think I think it's the most uncomfortable disease.
(27:29):
It's easier to be like, oh, that person's addicted to
drugs and alcohol and Janna, you and I have talked
about it, and you know, more people are in jail
and dead because of sex and love addiction. More people
are murdered over sex, over jealousy, over cheating, more people
in jail. And I've spoken out jails for a really
(27:49):
long time, and every woman in there it was a
sex and love at it in some form. So I
think society as a whole we lean into glamorizing falling
in love, glamorizing sexuality, you know, putting it all out there, um, intriguing, flirting,
all that stuff. So society doesn't want to look at
(28:12):
it as a problem because if they look at it
as a problem, then that means our whole structure has
to change. So I think it makes people really uncomfortable
with the idea of being addicted to people. And I
think they glamorize it because I always say, like, I'm
in love with falling in love. I'm in love with
feeling that first high, and every movie hits on that
(28:34):
almost They don't talk about paying the bills, They don't
talk about real intimacy, what real sex looks like after
being married for ten years, So I think they want
to believe it's just a you know, a cheater's, you know,
made up thing to get out of, you know, acting out.
But it's not. It's so real. I can't even tell you.
(28:54):
I was on a meeting the other night and there
was like four hundred people like it's it's this is
a huge deal. I think our society is so disconnected,
and social media has even made us more disconnected and
lean into fantasy and like going online and looking at
other people's lives and fantasizing and all that. So I
just feel like it's too hard for people to understand
(29:16):
that it is not amatic disease. I wish I was, like,
I wish it wasn't real. But when you meet a
woman that is sixty five, that can't stop cheating. You know,
our another man that can't stop watching porn. And it's
just like one after the other. And it's every walk
(29:38):
of life, it's every gender, it's every you know, that's ethnicity.
That's why I tell people, especially in Los Angeles when
I was doing meetings there. I mean, you had people
from eighteen to eighty every creed, color, sexual orientation, marital status,
(29:59):
you name for us janitor to like CEO two huge,
it doesn't matter. Yeah, spill all the deeds and I'm kidding. Oh,
tell me who, Well, that's what I do. Spill some deeds,
but I don't say because I do have Yes, she does,
So go ahead and tell us all about the book
(30:20):
and then your podcast too. Oh So I did write
a book, which is crazy because I'm dyslexic and like
me writing a book, I can't even put like a
proper sentence together. But I did. My husband forced me
to write a book, m In a Loving Way, and
it's coming out in in February, and it's caused Secret
Life of Hollywood Sex and Love Addict and there is
(30:43):
you know, some stories in there that have to do
with Hollywood, have to do with this addiction. How Hollywood
amplifies the addiction sometimes and yeah, I'm really excited. I'm
really nervous, and I hope people like it. It's based
on my life, but it's in a fiction character and
it's going to be a lot of fun. I think.
And you've read it, Danna, it's it's it is razy.
(31:07):
I had someone I had someone read it and they said,
and I think you said the same thing. They said,
it's like titalizing, but you it's an addiction, so you
feel like really wrong. But then you it's like a
car crash. You you can't like like you want to
be a part of it, but you're like, no, wait,
what what am I? And then you have a podcast too,
(31:27):
So I love the premise of your podcast to tell
our listeners what yours is all about. It's called Secret Life.
We started it, my husband and I started it at
the beginning of August. We were feeling and I know
a lot of people were. We were feeling so disconnected
with everything going on, and we're like, how can we
give back on a bigger level. So I was in
(31:50):
bed one night and it popped into my head, Secret life.
Have other people tell that, tell me their secrets? Because
I just got done telling. Huff Post came out March
night teen, and the world shut down March twelve. So
I just got done sharing this huge secret, and I
thought like, oh my god, the world is gonna stop.
And nothing happened except the world stopped for the virus.
(32:14):
But I just realized, like it felt so good to
be of service, and it felt so good to let
go of that shame, let go of that secret. So
I started the podcast called Secret Life, and people come
on and share all types of secrets. You know. Some
of the first ones were their husbands, their boyfriend was
(32:35):
a sex addict, you know, um, coming out of the
closet with their parents, having emotional incests with their mom,
shooting themselves in the chest with a shotgun, and surviving
the suicide attempt. You know. Yeah, two funny ones of
like us being actresses and going and like making up
that we can do something and then being on set.
Like all these different secrets of from all walks of
(32:57):
life I have, and I'm just really proud of it
because people have found so much healing from that. And
it's in Brian. You know, you always say like everyone
has an is M, which is always thought it was interesting,
like we all have some kind of is m we do.
I think what Mike said is that we all use
(33:17):
something to get outside of ourselves, whether it be shopping online.
I have tons of girlfriends that when they're bored, are
feeling not okay, they'll go and shop and it's like
I asked them, where are you going to wear that
right now? Like you can't go anywhere shy blue? Yeah,
like you're not wearing it anywhere. So, or they watch
(33:41):
a lot of television and they're obsessed with Netflix. Or
you're eating a bunch of cookies, which I had one
this morning for breakfast because I was feeling uncomfortable. We
all have something we do to get outside of ourselves,
and I am trying to make a movement where we
stop and we just us are okay with just as
(34:02):
we are, where we are, and that we are loved
no matter what, with all our brokenness, with all our discomforts,
with all our low self esteem, that we're all the same.
We're all scared of fear and abandonment at some level
as humans. I love you, Brian Um. Everyone followed Brian
Davis Um get her book when it comes out in
(34:22):
February Secret Life of Hollywood Sex and Love Addict, and
then also her podcast Secret Life podcasts UM and just
I love you. I'm proud to know you. I'm proud
to call you a friend. So thanks for coming on, beib.
Thanks bye guys, and congratulations on your year. I'll try
to accept that. Yes, please do pat yourself on the back. Thanks, bye, guys.
(34:59):
You know it's like she ended with their You know,
everybody has something that they reached for, and I just
want to clarify kind of what her and are both
saying on that is that doesn't mean everyone's an addict
of something. It's just because there's tendencies behind that. But
but we do everyone has something that when they're feeling
(35:21):
in a certain way, they distract themselves and it could
be a healthy distraction, but we all try find ways
to avoid feeling that. What is your healthy distraction? My hobbies?
My twelve hobbies. They start a hobby, you buy all
the stuff for it, and then you do it like
once or twice. What have I haven't I done? Though?
(35:43):
I mean you biked for like I biked for a
while and I'm still going to once it gets warm again.
I'm just not that committed to do it in the cold,
to get all of the bike gear and the outfits,
and then you're gonna do it. You gotta do alright, Mark,
what's your is M? You're defining my is M? A
is my healthy way of escaping? Yeah, and what if
(36:03):
you have an unhealthy one? Please share with the class
producing it's it's been hiking lately. For the past six
months or so, I've been doing a ton of hiking
since the shutdown. I'm also very into baseball that you
are watching baseball and reading about baseball. I mean, it's
all all kinds of things. So I mean, it's just
kind of the same stuff, you know, Like I said
(36:25):
that we're all twelve years old. Inside, it's the same
stuff I have when I was twelve years old. Love. Yeah,
I mean I think, I mean, my healthy one's running
and but my probably my unhealthy is either scrolling on
Instagram and like comparing or sometimes well, lately, I've done
a better job of not drinking wine when I'm frustrated
(36:47):
because I've noticed that, like I was, just would drink
wine just to to not feel, which is not a
good thing. So now I'm I'm careful to not drink
on those nights because I don't want that to become
an issue. So earlier before, Brianne, you said something I
found interesting. As you were saying about Mike's year, you
(37:08):
referred to it as I forget the exact words you use.
It's something like, as far as we know, you've been
good for a year, and I feel like, of course
it's impossible for you to know everything. But isn't there
an implied lack of trust in that sentence? I mean,
I could see how you would think that, and I
get it, but that's how I have to because I
(37:34):
don't know. I'll never know. Only he knows, so to
my knowledge, i've seen him. If I if I were
to say like he is, that's gonna destroy me over
and over and over because I don't know what the
real truth is. But when you say that, is it
(37:55):
a subtle way of saying to him, I trust you
to a point I at but just so you know,
it's not all the way there yet to me, it's
not towards him. I could see how it could. Maybe
you can maybe think it's like a passive, but it's
more like to protect myself. Yeah, I think I would
take it personally, Mike, how do you take it when
(38:16):
I used to take it personally for sure, because that's
exactly how I would receive it as passive. It's like
you're saying you believe me, your trust me, but not really.
But over time, I'm able to realize why that's said,
because you know, it's kind of you know, fool me once,
(38:37):
shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me, you
know what I mean. So twice I've had to reset
my time. Well, we've had to reset like four times.
We've had two year, three year birthdays and then he
had to reset it are twice. I've twice I've had
to go back on my one year that well, I'm
(39:00):
kind of getting at This would be the third time
I've gotten to a year quote unquote because the past ones.
So I can understand that you can't just wholeheartedly just
trust fall into me, you know what I mean. That's
gonna take time, and I got to earn that. Um,
So I don't take it personally anymore. I I you know,
(39:21):
I take it for what it is, and I understand
that there's still a healing and pain behind it. Yeah,
my therapist is kind of always said like, because that's
that's the knowledge that we know. What we know is
you know what we what we think is going on,
but we don't fully know. And so if we hold
(39:42):
on like no, no, he's gonna then you're gonna like
your you can spiral like so crazy out of control
because you're gonna want to I'm gonna want to put
the control. I'm gonna want to control what he's doing.
And because i've I'm like, no, he's not lying. But
if I to the best of our not to the
best of a knowledge, he's he's straight because I can't
(40:03):
control what he's doing. So that makes it um, that
makes me not hold the control. And I know it
looks like trust, but for me, it's more of just
the letting go of control, letting go of expectations and
control and the fear. But but that's a good illustration
(40:24):
of how this is not really a celebration of one year.
It's the temperate enthusiasm behind it. Because Mike's got the
shame of hinting this point plenty of time, Janet stick
out the as far as we know, so therefore it
is what it is, and it's notable, but it's not
a celebration, but I think it's still but that makes
me sad because I think it's still should be celebrated
because hopefully we won't have to come well there, I
(40:47):
won't unfortunately be around for the next one if there
is one, and that's just the reality. But I will
still support him from from afar. What's the farthest we've
gotten one year? But again, if it wasn't really sober
that now, this is the farthest I've gotten, Because that's
worth celebrating. I think, see that's that's and that's what
(41:07):
I'm saying, Like that's where I think, you know, that
is worth celebrating because yeah, because we've he this is
the most sober he's been for a year, Like that's amazing,
And I do want him to celebrate that because I
hope that it's going to be you know, one year
one day and then when you you know, like I'm
excited for him. I want him to feel celebration at
(41:32):
two years because we never come close to two years. Right,
maybe it's nine years. No, No, I mean, hey, every
every year that it gets more and he's legit so
like you know, like living how he lived the past year.
I mean we're going to have massive celebrations. Well and here,
but here's the thing that anyone in program would say
(41:52):
to all that is, I don't even I'm not even
thinking about that because now getting into this point, being
the farthest I've gone along, I realized why people in
program said it's, you know, one day at a time,
because it is, you literally live one day at a time.
You know, the moment you start thinking about all that,
and you know that's when you you you look past yourself.
(42:16):
So I'm just focused on today, tomorrow, will be focused
on tomorrow and hopefully next thing, I know, I look
up and it's been ten years. Okay, man, Well, I
genuinely am really excited to celebrate your one year. And um,
I hope that, like you said, there's many more years
to come, but for right now, let's just soaking the
(42:36):
one year. And I'm proud of you for living a
sober year. Well, I appreciate that, honey. I'm really gonna
try and you know, I just want to say thank
you because you know, I've put us through a lot
and you're still here and like I was telling Brand
earlier in the show, and you is in a healthy way.
(42:58):
You know you're a huge part of my motivation and
I just continue to remind myself on how grateful I
am that I still have you, because there's a lot
of people that wouldn't stick around. So I thank you,
and uh, we'll just make the day the the best
we can. I love you, see y'all.
Wind down and radio podcast. You know, I'm never the
culprit of misplacing things, really not as often as you.
But I was just trying to find my car keys
that you misplaced about in the start of quarantine. Still
can't find those bad suckers. I think that was actually
(00:22):
like a year ago. No, it was when we got
the chickens. It was the day of the chickens when
my keys went missing. And thank you, but you have
it's like you you say to me all the time,
that's been my what's that thing called? Like? We're my kicker?
Was that know? What's it called? Like? Where I'm like
(00:42):
my trump card? Because he's always like you don't ever,
which is funny because I always put things back in
its place. But I have a tendency to be like, oh,
where's my phone or where is like this when it
comes to like my personal things. But every time you
say that, and I'm like, I don't want to hear.
I was like, you lost my keys. No matter what
it is, you always bring that up. There's nothing I
(01:03):
can do about it. But why were you saying that? Oh?
Because I was frantically looking for my phone just now
and I thought I lost my mind. I didn't even
remember the last place I had it. And the best
part about that, though, is he was looking at for
his phone getting so minutes flustered. It was like thirty
and and he's like getting all like worked up, and
(01:25):
I'm like, okay, well, let's just retrace your steps, like
let's figure this out. And he's just getting more flustered
and flustered. And I was like, I am to go
to the bathroom and then I'll come look for it
the first place I look. Of course it was there.
I was like, I always got to check the couch.
That's like, I checked all the couches and chairs except
(01:45):
for that one. Well, I hope all of you all
had a great Christmas, however it was spent. I'm so
excited for the new year. I can't wait. I have
a fear though, around the New Year that everyone like
people already put a lot of weight in like new Year,
knew me, it's new year, like whatever. This year especially,
(02:06):
I feel like people are gonna put so many eggs
in that basket, which is great, they should. I'm going
to do that. I'm like, what can I do to
you know, feel my best, look the best, be healthiest, like, yeah,
but you'll fall through and do it. But I'm saying
people might have such high expectations because they're like, well,
it's just naturally going to be better because it can't
(02:28):
get worse than this year, and who knows it might.
I mean, I think, you know, I think the expectation,
like you said, is really high. But I think it's
really bad to set expectations just in general, because you're
gonna get let down. And there's a difference between setting
expectations and setting goals because there's people there's people that
(02:49):
are like, I don't set goals because then that way
I won't be let down. Don't really work like that,
but okay, teach their own. But I mean I do think,
I mean, hopefully it's a better year. But the same time,
I still kind of where as you think that I'm
not half full in this area of my life, is
where I'm like, no, it was a yeah, I was
troubling and there was hard times, but I also I'm like, okay,
(03:12):
what's what was the what was the positives? All the
time we spent with our kids all the so it's
like I try to think about those things to be
like Okay, you know, how can I bring some of
those things that I learned to do better in a
better person, as a happier person, as a more patient person.
Look at that Mama Jane dropping knowledge on inspiration on everybody.
(03:34):
I'm not I'm just saying like, but like, I'm just
excited for those opportunities. And you know, it's not Christmas
anymore because we're on the brink of another celebration. You know,
I have a hard time calling it a celebration. And
my therapist even got on me, got on me for
(03:54):
this last week because it'll be a year of sobriety
for me on New Year's Eve and so just my
my shame and stuff wants to just not should let
light on it at all, um and just treat it
like another day because it is. And I don't know, man,
(04:20):
it's just hard because I think I have a lot
of shame around it with you know, I wish this
was the four year you know what I mean. And
it's like thinking back on the you know, bumps and
major obstacles that we faced the last four years. It's
(04:44):
just you know, four or five years is it's just
hard to to not look back. And I'm sure you're
the same way. Yeah, I know. I talked about with
my therapist last week in it was one of those
things where it's like, you know, I was like, how
(05:04):
do I balance because I'm like, I'm angry, but I'm
also wanted to be supportive. I was like, how can
I balance being supportive and being really triggered and really
hurt and let down without you know? So it's like
I'm like, how do I how do you balance that?
Because I'm like, this is his third or second, third
or second birthday I've thrown you where it's like I'm like,
(05:26):
I don't want to bake a cake anymore and now
I'm angry, like how many more one year cakes am
I going to make? You know? And I don't want anything,
like I don't So I think that's like, you know,
but I'm like, but I want to be supportive, So
I'm like, how do you balance that? That walk with
like wanting to be a supportive spouse but also being like,
well how many more times are we going to throw
this party? You know? We're going to have a good
(05:50):
friend of yours, um Brian Davis, who is openly a
sex addict as well love addict, sex and love addict slaw. Um,
and we'll have her on and we'll kind of talk
about some of this, you know, because she's been sober
with eleven years. Yeah, she just celebrated her um eleven
(06:11):
year sobriety on December six and Brandon I did a
movie together. Um we met on prom night and sorry
the movie prom night and um, yeah, we we just
we've stayed in touch. Um. But it's it's funny just
to like tea up Brian a little bit. Um when
I was doing Dancing with the Stars. And by the way,
(06:33):
she's gone on to you know, be on TV shows
like six and Tree Blood, Um, jar Head opposite Jack
Jill and Halli. She's you know, she's an amazing actress
and you know she's you know, she's she's really really good.
She's gonna be on Lucifer this next season too, yep. Um.
And then so we kind of lost touch a little
(06:53):
bit when I was doing the country stuff, but we
always you know, said hello, and you know Facebook or
whatever it was then my Space, I don't know. And
when I was doing Dancing with the Stars and all
of the stuff came about about your sex addiction, she
reached out to me and was like, hey, you know,
I would love to meet. So we met at Katsuia
in Um, California, in the in the valley and um,
(07:17):
you know, and I just kind of thought we were
gonna have like a bashing session about you because you
were in rehab and um, and she was like, I'm
actually a sex and love addict and I was like what. So,
you know, I I learned a lot from Brian and
she's kind of been my sponsor. Like she was the
(07:39):
one I called when I found out about you hiding
like the fake accounts last year and the deleting of
the you know, your messages with the woman so or
the lady or whatever, and so you know, I called her.
So she's kind of always the person that I've called
in those moments and when I'm like, you know about
ry to jump from a bridge to me to be
(08:00):
like what what do I do? And how do I
handle this? And you know, I think she you guys
even spoke at a time or two during last year
and stuff. Um, because she's very much in her program
and you know, she's a sponsor to a lot of people.
And I mean eleven years is incredible. So and just
you know, her stories, and but I'm really excited to
have her on. But first let's, um let me check
(08:23):
in with you, Mike. How are you feeling, just like
diving into this again? I think it's it's uncomfortable for
me as well, um, because I don't want to really
shut a light on it. I just want it. It's
just another day. It's just it is, and it isn't,
you know. Um. And for me with my my personality
(08:45):
of nothing ever being good enough, like things that I
do not being good enough, I'm just like, all right,
what's like I might feel the same way in ten years. Alright, Okay,
it's ten years whatever, keep going right, but you still
should celebrate, like one year is great, Like you've stayed
to our knowledge, You've stayed straight, you know, for one year,
and that's a big accomplishment. Now if you get two years,
(09:06):
you will never like you can be like, hey, I've
never hit two years before, Like that's great, you know, yeah,
I mean it should be encouragement. You should celebrate it.
It is. I'm encouraged that this is a legitimate year.
That's nice, you know what I mean. Like, so it
does feel different, but it's you know, again, it's it's
just still uncomfortable. You're lost, you know, for both of us.
(09:30):
So all right, well let's take a quick break and
then we'll get Brianna. All right, so super excited because
we have Brian Um with us on Wine down yours.
(09:51):
Are you still in l A right now? Yes? I am,
I'm an And are you going to stay in l A?
Are you thinking about going back to I don't know,
a girl, I don't know what we're doing at this point.
I don't think anybody does. You know, we're just literally
hunkered in our house and not going anywhere. We're getting
everything delivered. It's crazy how scary it is right now
(10:13):
in l A. Well, I can't even imagine. But on
the flip side, congratulations, you just celebrated eleven years of
sobriety in December. So yes, I haven't brought my chip.
Look I got I was like, oh I should probably. Wow. Yeah,
that's awesome. Good for you, Brian, Thank you very much.
(10:34):
You know, we're just talking about you know, sobriety and
stuff because I know Jane shared with you to be
a year from me um this week, and I guess
my question to you to start off as I'm still
not comfortable with it, but you know what I mean,
it's you know, I think even more so because it's
(10:55):
a year and this is the second or third time
that we've quote unquote celebrated a year. And I was
telling you, I was like, this is my first legitimate year,
which is nice. Um, yeah, but still it's there's so
many feelings around it because of setbacks in the past
where I have a hard time acknowledging it. Yeah, I
get it. I mean, nobody walks into those rooms thinking, yeah,
(11:19):
I guess to be a part of this group of
like sex addicts or sex and love addicts. And the
problem is it's such a great area and it's so
hard to get sobriety in the program that there's people
slip all the time and they don't talk about it.
But I think that's the beautiful thing that you're doing,
is talking about it. But we shouldn't have shame because
(11:42):
this is one of the hardest diseases ever to get through.
And I've said it before, like they say, a is
the last, you know, house on the block you want
to go to. But then like sex and love addiction
and stuff is like the shack and the back you
like don't want to go to like it's the worst
place in the world. So I get it. I mean
(12:04):
I can even hear that like shamefulness that you feel.
I'm wearing it thick, especially as as we're getting closer. Yeah,
it really is. And yeah, it's just hard and uncomfortable
and you know, it's just one of those things. But
I think we're just taking it in stride. Yeah, I mean,
(12:25):
like we were kind of saying earlier to brand I
was saying, you know, I was talking to my therapist
and I'm like, it's hard for the partner. I feel
like to because we have celebrated it two or three times,
like because I still want to celebrate him because I
think it's amazing, especially you know, Okay, it's going to
be on New Year's Eve, Like what a celebration what
I like, you know, this is amazing, you know, of
(12:46):
one year. But then I'm like, it's like the other
part of me that's like I don't want to. I
don't want to because I'm like, how many more are
we going to throw? And that's where like my the
negative and the fear, the fear part comes in with
with my side of it going, well, you know, are
we gonna have to celebrate another one? Is this going
to be? You know now is New Year is going
(13:06):
to be a trigger holiday because he might relapse again
and be like, oh, we could have been celebrating here,
you know. So it's like it just sets more in
more like trigger trigger places and trigger holidays and trigger
because it's like there aready, there's enough triggers in the
world as it is. With this, it's like, I'm like,
how how am I supposed to like And I mean
(13:27):
we talked about live with my with my therapist, but like,
like to walk that line is so hard because like,
of course I want to celebrate him. I don't want
him to feel shame, but I'm also terrified out of
my mind. Well I can understand. I mean, when any
I and I speak to a lot of partners, it's
so interesting that we're talking about this. I had someone
reach out yesterday. He's the partner of someone that you know,
(13:51):
she keeps cheating on him and he keeps going back
to her and she's holding onto him. And I was
just telling him, you have to understand that when a
slip happens, it has nothing to do with you as
a partner. It has to do with the addict feeling
out of control, feeling, you know, like they're not good
(14:12):
enough to be truly loved and they don't know feel
like they can love and be loved. So I first
would say, yes, New Year's Eve, celebrating a year again,
it's got to be very difficult for you. But it's
also he's doing the work. If he wasn't doing the work,
if he wasn't you know, going to therapy, going to meetings,
(14:34):
talking to his sponsor, then I would say there's a
huge problem there. But he's doing the work. And I,
as your friend, have seen so many people change and
know that on the other side, like he will be
you know, it's just gonna be a year, and it's
two years, and it's three years, and every year some
new layer is going to expose itself and as a
(14:56):
partner you just have to kind of be along for
the ride and not take it. But the relapses keep happening.
Then then it's kind of like what you said to
me last December. You're like, he's not doing the work,
Like you can't put your foot in forward either way
if he's not doing the work. Yeah, and I said
that too. I was like, if he's not doing the
work and he's not taking it seriously, then you've got
(15:17):
to get out, you know, because just like my husband,
if I'm not doing the work to better myself and
to get out of my is ms, it's not fair
for him to stick around. Brian, when did you decide
to be public about being you know, in slaw and
sex and love addiction. Well, that's a funny thing. I mean,
(15:37):
when I hit ten years, it was this moment and
Jan and I talked a lot about it because we've
been doing that project we've had together, and um, it
was this overwhelmed. I spoke at this meeting and I
spoke for forty five minutes, and it was a meeting
all around the world over the phone, right and you
(15:58):
can call in and even message for the speaker, and
I got all these messages from all over the world,
and it was such a beautiful moment for me because
I felt this, like, Wow, I've hit a decade, which
is crazy. Like when I walked into the room, I
couldn't believe someone. I remember this guy speaking and he
was like, I have eight years, and I was like
(16:21):
eight years. I can't even get through a day right now?
You know, like I was in so much pain and
he the when he was speaking, and now I'm on
that other side. It's my it's it's it's almost like
God gave me this gift to be the voice for
a woman sex and love at it, because women it's
more shameful as a woman, I feel, you know, it's
(16:44):
more like it's even when a Jane and I were talking,
you remember, You're like, it's not real. It's a man.
Remember he said that to me. I was like, um no.
But I just felt like, here's my chance to give
my experience, strength and hope to a bigger than just
Los Angeles. And I wrote this Hugh Post article coming out,
(17:08):
you know, as a sex and love attict, recover Sex
and Love Attic, sharing one of my bottoms, and it
was the best thing I've ever done. It was terrified,
but then the feedback has been so beautiful and like,
my girlfriend has this problem. I have this problem. I
can't like stop cheating, I can't you know, keep d
(17:29):
m NG guys like everything. And I just felt of
such service that it just made me think bigger than
just myself for sure. I mean it is, you know,
even with negative blowback, or whatever. I know, for me personally,
just with our story being out there, the amount of
guys that have reached out to me or message me
or whatever, and that I've met with and talked with,
(17:50):
that's more fulfilling than anything else I could have imagined.
And really for me, I've experienced that it inspires my
you know, my recovery and everything because you're just add
you're including more people like within your story and your circle,
and it's like, yeah, I don't want to let down, Gene.
I don't want to let down myself for my kids,
but you have all these people kind of leaning on you,
(18:11):
and you just want to continue to be support for them.
And for me, it's just I think that's been a
big part of why I've been able to get to
a legitimate year is honestly us talking about it so
much in which aspect just because more people, so many
people have reached out, and so I just feel encouraged,
Like it helps me feel encouraged with what we're doing,
(18:34):
as opposed to as much shame, you know, I mean,
because people lean on me, Guys lean on me, you
guys reach out to me and want to talk about
these things. So it's just an adelayer for it. It
makes us accountable. Also, it makes you accountable, like do
you want to go do this thing? I mean even
just that chip, that little teeny's you know gold chip.
(18:54):
I remember when I was driving to get my six
month chip and I talked about this a lot that
like somebody like I was intriguing with texted me on
the drive to get my six chip, and I remember thinking,
do I do what I always do in text back
or do I do something different and go get that
(19:14):
plastic red six months chip, Like that was more important
at that moment than you know, getting my high getting
someone to fill me. But I also have to congratulate
you in the sense of I don't know at my
one year if I could have been so public. There's
(19:35):
something also has to be difficult that speaking out at
such a vulnerable place, because I remember at my one
year I literally wanted to crawl out of my skin.
I felt like I was like a snake like trying
to shed its skin. Does that is that how you feel?
Because that has to be a lot of pressure at
this and it's been an unfortunate hat to wear like
(19:57):
this early in my recovery process, especially over the last
four or five years or four years that our story
has been out. But that's the thing. My anonymity was
was taken away from me. That wasn't my choice, and
so I've had to write it out, you know, and
it's it is hard because then when you know, I
did have you know, the setback last year, and it's
like we essentially have to publicly address it, you know,
(20:21):
that's that's it sucks to really for both of us,
not just me, but for both of us to for
janit to feel embarrassed or to feel sadness around that,
for me to feel shamed and embarrassed as well. And
so it's you know, it's not easy. And but again
we're just you know, we just have to keep talking
about it and and leaning on each other around it and
(20:42):
be able to express our feelings. You and I, yeah, yeah,
because I don't know if my husband, I don't know
if Mark would have been able even you know, he's
sober like thirty something years and his his own addiction,
but that would have been really hard on our relationship
the first year going through that, Because did you feel
(21:04):
like this first year was like your first you know
the other you know, three years ago? Because the first
year is the worst. It's the worst. You feel like
you're dying. Yeah, you know, because I've I've still been
in the program for four years now, it's felt simpler
at times because of those initials, just like even though
(21:25):
you're doing the work, you feel like you're white knuckling
every second of the day. Where I've I've gotten past
like that, that kind of those kind of places where
you know, when I first entered the room, the whole
lust of the mine will go away. I didn't believe
that was ever possible until I started getting some time
together and and so now like those kind of things
are are aren't an equation, you know what I mean,
(21:48):
it's as much it's it was just it was still
getting to that level of comfortability with myself, and it
was just I was just a hard time doing that.
The initial stuff was okay, but I just had a
hard time maintaining it because eventually I just kind of
fell off the wagon. I'll just be reaching for something.
I don't know what it was, well, anything to fill
(22:11):
that whole when we're feeling even this morning, I have
to tell you, like a part of me was like
annoyed that I was on a Zoom one of the
Zoom meetings you know that I go to every morning,
and people were just annoying me, and I was like,
why am I so irritated? And it makes you want
to like reach for a cookie, are reached for your phone,
to look at Instagram, anything you can do to get
(22:33):
out of feeling discomfort. And as an addict, especially a
sex and love addict or a sex addict and being
addicted to people that we have to sit in this
discomfort and be okay with it. And it's like, who
wants to do that? Who wants to sit and discomfort
and be okay with you? Know? I was, I was
(22:53):
on a twelveth sevenon this morning and guy said something
great that was being real time just with something he
was dealing with, and he was making that point. He
was like, you know one is too many, A thousand's
not enough to exactly your point. You like to take
that distraction or take whatever. And I was like, man,
it's it's so true, because you know, you have still
have those moments where you're like you just want to
(23:14):
run away from whatever you're feeling. And I'm sure people
who aren't even addicts have that right. They feel their
void with something and it's like, again, one is too many,
thousand's not enough. It was just it got me today.
But don't you feel grateful a little bit? I mean,
I have to tell you we have the tools. Can
you imagine not having the tools and being in this
(23:37):
world pandemic and not being able to jump on a
twelve step meeting in the morning, when your kids are
driving you crazy, your significant other you're just feeling discomfort, Like,
I'm so grateful. I'm extremely grateful for that, and I
mean I'm not. I mean it's from a not codependent way,
and I'm grateful that I have GENA because I know
(24:00):
not to compare, but I know so many other spouses,
are so many other guys that are in worse situations,
you know, with their significant other. And just the fact
that I have a wife that's able to navigate through
things as well as Janet ultimately can is a game
changer for me, just being someone who does have some
codependency tendencies and stuff and just wants to rely. You know, hey, honey,
(24:22):
how am I feeling today? Like that kind of thing?
To have her has been a big pillar in my
ability to you know, feel sane at times. Honestly, along
with the work of my program, do you ever ask
her to like fix it for you? Not anymore? No,
like I'm able to I'm I'm getting better at allowing
(24:45):
her to have her feelings, are allowing myself to have
my feelings without putting that on her. But you know,
I'm Jane got was reached out by somebody um anonymous
a day or two ago. And because you sponsor so
many people and have so much time in this program, brand,
I wonder what your advice would be for somebody that
(25:07):
maybe that's listening, that maybe going through a new discovery,
especially during the holidays. Because Janna got a message about
she just found out her husband was a sex addict,
and it's around the holidays, and it's like, what do
the what does that other person do to stay sane
during this time? I mean, that's a that's a loaded
question because there's no right way, like I said to Janna,
(25:31):
and and like I stay to anybody listening. If you're
with a sex addict, a sex and law addict, a
love addict, a codependent, any of those things and they're
acting out outside of your relationship, one number one, you
can't fix them. It's not Janna's responsibility to fix you,
it's not my husband's responsibility to fix me. And they're
(25:53):
not reason enough for us to get better. So if
you're struggling and your partner is at doing out, you
have every right to walk away. Now I know kids
are involved. I have a kid also, And if that
person is willing to step into a room, step into
therapy to get help and find out why they are,
(26:18):
you know, watching too much porn, disconnecting, masturbating too much,
disconnecting with other people, all that stuff that we as
sex and love attics tend to do. You know, if
they're willing to look at the reason why it's worth
walking through that fire with them, if you love them,
because on the other side of it it's such a
deeper connection, then then I have ever experienced, like my
(26:44):
husband and I are more connected ever than we were
like sixteen years ago, and it was because we walked
through the pain, walk through like where does he contribute
to my addiction? Where what are the things I'm doing
not to completely have both feet in our relationship. So
if you're out there and you just bound out this information,
(27:06):
you know, I would look at the pros and cons
is the person willing to do the work, and then
you have to make that decision for yourself. Brian, why
do people still um Like a lot of people will
say and leave comments like oh, that's just a you know,
married's man excuse, or like they don't believe sex addiction. Well,
number one, I think I think it's the most uncomfortable disease.
(27:29):
It's easier to be like, oh, that person's addicted to
drugs and alcohol and Janna, you and I have talked
about it, and you know, more people are in jail
and dead because of sex and love addiction. More people
are murdered over sex, over jealousy, over cheating, more people
in jail. And I've spoken out jails for a really
(27:49):
long time, and every woman in there it was a
sex and love at it in some form. So I
think society as a whole we lean into glamorizing falling
in love, glamorizing sexuality, you know, putting it all out there, um, intriguing, flirting,
all that stuff. So society doesn't want to look at
(28:12):
it as a problem because if they look at it
as a problem, then that means our whole structure has
to change. So I think it makes people really uncomfortable
with the idea of being addicted to people. And I
think they glamorize it because I always say, like, I'm
in love with falling in love. I'm in love with
feeling that first high, and every movie hits on that
(28:34):
almost They don't talk about paying the bills, They don't
talk about real intimacy, what real sex looks like after
being married for ten years, So I think they want
to believe it's just a you know, a cheater's, you know,
made up thing to get out of, you know, acting out.
But it's not. It's so real. I can't even tell you.
(28:54):
I was on a meeting the other night and there
was like four hundred people like it's it's this is
a huge deal. I think our society is so disconnected,
and social media has even made us more disconnected and
lean into fantasy and like going online and looking at
other people's lives and fantasizing and all that. So I
just feel like it's too hard for people to understand
(29:16):
that it is not amatic disease. I wish I was, like,
I wish it wasn't real. But when you meet a
woman that is sixty five, that can't stop cheating. You know,
our another man that can't stop watching porn. And it's
just like one after the other. And it's every walk
(29:38):
of life, it's every gender, it's every you know, that's ethnicity.
That's why I tell people, especially in Los Angeles when
I was doing meetings there. I mean, you had people
from eighteen to eighty every creed, color, sexual orientation, marital status,
(29:59):
you name for us janitor to like CEO two huge,
it doesn't matter. Yeah, spill all the deeds and I'm kidding. Oh,
tell me who, Well, that's what I do. Spill some deeds,
but I don't say because I do have Yes, she does,
So go ahead and tell us all about the book
(30:20):
and then your podcast too. Oh So I did write
a book, which is crazy because I'm dyslexic and like
me writing a book, I can't even put like a
proper sentence together. But I did. My husband forced me
to write a book, m In a Loving Way, and
it's coming out in in February, and it's caused Secret
Life of Hollywood Sex and Love Addict and there is
(30:43):
you know, some stories in there that have to do
with Hollywood, have to do with this addiction. How Hollywood
amplifies the addiction sometimes and yeah, I'm really excited. I'm
really nervous, and I hope people like it. It's based
on my life, but it's in a fiction character and
it's going to be a lot of fun. I think.
And you've read it, Danna, it's it's it is razy.
(31:07):
I had someone I had someone read it and they said,
and I think you said the same thing. They said,
it's like titalizing, but you it's an addiction, so you
feel like really wrong. But then you it's like a
car crash. You you can't like like you want to
be a part of it, but you're like, no, wait,
what what am I? And then you have a podcast too,
(31:27):
So I love the premise of your podcast to tell
our listeners what yours is all about. It's called Secret Life.
We started it, my husband and I started it at
the beginning of August. We were feeling and I know
a lot of people were. We were feeling so disconnected
with everything going on, and we're like, how can we
give back on a bigger level. So I was in
(31:50):
bed one night and it popped into my head, Secret life.
Have other people tell that, tell me their secrets? Because
I just got done telling. Huff Post came out March
night teen, and the world shut down March twelve. So
I just got done sharing this huge secret, and I
thought like, oh my god, the world is gonna stop.
And nothing happened except the world stopped for the virus.
(32:14):
But I just realized, like it felt so good to
be of service, and it felt so good to let
go of that shame, let go of that secret. So
I started the podcast called Secret Life, and people come
on and share all types of secrets. You know. Some
of the first ones were their husbands, their boyfriend was
(32:35):
a sex addict, you know, um, coming out of the
closet with their parents, having emotional incests with their mom,
shooting themselves in the chest with a shotgun, and surviving
the suicide attempt. You know. Yeah, two funny ones of
like us being actresses and going and like making up
that we can do something and then being on set.
Like all these different secrets of from all walks of
(32:57):
life I have, and I'm just really proud of it
because people have found so much healing from that. And
it's in Brian. You know, you always say like everyone
has an is M, which is always thought it was interesting,
like we all have some kind of is m we do.
I think what Mike said is that we all use
(33:17):
something to get outside of ourselves, whether it be shopping online.
I have tons of girlfriends that when they're bored, are
feeling not okay, they'll go and shop and it's like
I asked them, where are you going to wear that
right now? Like you can't go anywhere shy blue? Yeah,
like you're not wearing it anywhere. So, or they watch
(33:41):
a lot of television and they're obsessed with Netflix. Or
you're eating a bunch of cookies, which I had one
this morning for breakfast because I was feeling uncomfortable. We
all have something we do to get outside of ourselves,
and I am trying to make a movement where we
stop and we just us are okay with just as
(34:02):
we are, where we are, and that we are loved
no matter what, with all our brokenness, with all our discomforts,
with all our low self esteem, that we're all the same.
We're all scared of fear and abandonment at some level
as humans. I love you, Brian Um. Everyone followed Brian
Davis Um get her book when it comes out in
(34:22):
February Secret Life of Hollywood Sex and Love Addict, and
then also her podcast Secret Life podcasts UM and just
I love you. I'm proud to know you. I'm proud
to call you a friend. So thanks for coming on, beib.
Thanks bye guys, and congratulations on your year. I'll try
to accept that. Yes, please do pat yourself on the back. Thanks, bye, guys.
(34:59):
You know it's like she ended with their You know,
everybody has something that they reached for, and I just
want to clarify kind of what her and are both
saying on that is that doesn't mean everyone's an addict
of something. It's just because there's tendencies behind that. But
but we do everyone has something that when they're feeling
(35:21):
in a certain way, they distract themselves and it could
be a healthy distraction, but we all try find ways
to avoid feeling that. What is your healthy distraction? My hobbies?
My twelve hobbies. They start a hobby, you buy all
the stuff for it, and then you do it like
once or twice. What have I haven't I done? Though?
(35:43):
I mean you biked for like I biked for a
while and I'm still going to once it gets warm again.
I'm just not that committed to do it in the cold,
to get all of the bike gear and the outfits,
and then you're gonna do it. You gotta do alright, Mark,
what's your is M? You're defining my is M? A
is my healthy way of escaping? Yeah, and what if
(36:03):
you have an unhealthy one? Please share with the class
producing it's it's been hiking lately. For the past six
months or so, I've been doing a ton of hiking
since the shutdown. I'm also very into baseball that you
are watching baseball and reading about baseball. I mean, it's
all all kinds of things. So I mean, it's just
kind of the same stuff, you know, Like I said
(36:25):
that we're all twelve years old. Inside, it's the same
stuff I have when I was twelve years old. Love. Yeah,
I mean I think, I mean, my healthy one's running
and but my probably my unhealthy is either scrolling on
Instagram and like comparing or sometimes well, lately, I've done
a better job of not drinking wine when I'm frustrated
(36:47):
because I've noticed that, like I was, just would drink
wine just to to not feel, which is not a
good thing. So now I'm I'm careful to not drink
on those nights because I don't want that to become
an issue. So earlier before, Brianne, you said something I
found interesting. As you were saying about Mike's year, you
(37:08):
referred to it as I forget the exact words you use.
It's something like, as far as we know, you've been
good for a year, and I feel like, of course
it's impossible for you to know everything. But isn't there
an implied lack of trust in that sentence? I mean,
I could see how you would think that, and I
get it, but that's how I have to because I
(37:34):
don't know. I'll never know. Only he knows, so to
my knowledge, i've seen him. If I if I were
to say like he is, that's gonna destroy me over
and over and over because I don't know what the
real truth is. But when you say that, is it
(37:55):
a subtle way of saying to him, I trust you
to a point I at but just so you know,
it's not all the way there yet to me, it's
not towards him. I could see how it could. Maybe
you can maybe think it's like a passive, but it's
more like to protect myself. Yeah, I think I would
take it personally, Mike, how do you take it when
(38:16):
I used to take it personally for sure, because that's
exactly how I would receive it as passive. It's like
you're saying you believe me, your trust me, but not really.
But over time, I'm able to realize why that's said,
because you know, it's kind of you know, fool me once,
(38:37):
shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me, you
know what I mean. So twice I've had to reset
my time. Well, we've had to reset like four times.
We've had two year, three year birthdays and then he
had to reset it are twice. I've twice I've had
to go back on my one year that well, I'm
(39:00):
kind of getting at This would be the third time
I've gotten to a year quote unquote because the past ones.
So I can understand that you can't just wholeheartedly just
trust fall into me, you know what I mean. That's
gonna take time, and I got to earn that. Um,
So I don't take it personally anymore. I I you know,
(39:21):
I take it for what it is, and I understand
that there's still a healing and pain behind it. Yeah,
my therapist is kind of always said like, because that's
that's the knowledge that we know. What we know is
you know what we what we think is going on,
but we don't fully know. And so if we hold
(39:42):
on like no, no, he's gonna then you're gonna like
your you can spiral like so crazy out of control
because you're gonna want to I'm gonna want to put
the control. I'm gonna want to control what he's doing.
And because i've I'm like, no, he's not lying. But
if I to the best of our not to the
best of a knowledge, he's he's straight because I can't
(40:03):
control what he's doing. So that makes it um, that
makes me not hold the control. And I know it
looks like trust, but for me, it's more of just
the letting go of control, letting go of expectations and
control and the fear. But but that's a good illustration
(40:24):
of how this is not really a celebration of one year.
It's the temperate enthusiasm behind it. Because Mike's got the
shame of hinting this point plenty of time, Janet stick
out the as far as we know, so therefore it
is what it is, and it's notable, but it's not
a celebration, but I think it's still but that makes
me sad because I think it's still should be celebrated
because hopefully we won't have to come well there, I
(40:47):
won't unfortunately be around for the next one if there
is one, and that's just the reality. But I will
still support him from from afar. What's the farthest we've
gotten one year? But again, if it wasn't really sober
that now, this is the farthest I've gotten, Because that's
worth celebrating. I think, see that's that's and that's what
(41:07):
I'm saying, Like that's where I think, you know, that
is worth celebrating because yeah, because we've he this is
the most sober he's been for a year, Like that's amazing,
And I do want him to celebrate that because I
hope that it's going to be you know, one year
one day and then when you you know, like I'm
excited for him. I want him to feel celebration at
(41:32):
two years because we never come close to two years. Right,
maybe it's nine years. No, No, I mean, hey, every
every year that it gets more and he's legit so
like you know, like living how he lived the past year.
I mean we're going to have massive celebrations. Well and here,
but here's the thing that anyone in program would say
(41:52):
to all that is, I don't even I'm not even
thinking about that because now getting into this point, being
the farthest I've gone along, I realized why people in
program said it's, you know, one day at a time,
because it is, you literally live one day at a time.
You know, the moment you start thinking about all that,
and you know that's when you you you look past yourself.
(42:16):
So I'm just focused on today, tomorrow, will be focused
on tomorrow and hopefully next thing, I know, I look
up and it's been ten years. Okay, man, Well, I
genuinely am really excited to celebrate your one year. And um,
I hope that, like you said, there's many more years
to come, but for right now, let's just soaking the
(42:36):
one year. And I'm proud of you for living a
sober year. Well, I appreciate that, honey. I'm really gonna
try and you know, I just want to say thank
you because you know, I've put us through a lot
and you're still here and like I was telling Brand
earlier in the show, and you is in a healthy way.
(42:58):
You know you're a huge part of my motivation and
I just continue to remind myself on how grateful I
am that I still have you, because there's a lot
of people that wouldn't stick around. So I thank you,
and uh, we'll just make the day the the best
we can. I love you, see y'all.
Host
Jana Kramer
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