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October 2, 2023 46 mins

The legendary Matthew McConaughey is hanging out with Jana to discuss some valuable life lessons you NEED to share with your kids!

Matthew bares all about his strained relationship with his mother and offers advice to anyone struggling with their own parents. 

Plus, find out why it's important to play "hard to get" when trying to get your kids to tell you something. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Wine Down with Janet Kramer and iHeart Radio podcast. All Right,
so I gotta say this is gonna well, this is
gonna be a very memorable podcast. I feel nervous. This

(00:22):
is huge, can I say it? I mean, this is huge.
I saw it come through on my email and I thought,
way to go, Kramer. What was the text that you
sent again? I said, alright, alright, alright exactly, because we're
having Matthew McConaughey come on wine Down today. I thought
I was actually I thought we were getting punked. I
did too. I thought it was Mike. I did. I

(00:43):
was like, We're going to get up there and I'm
gonna actually put on makeup, and then I'm gonna be like, oh,
because I knew I did. That's funny. I'm excited, though
I'm excited. I'm nervous too. I'm nervous. I'm not a
natural interviewer, and I'm nervous. I would say that I am.
I would say this is the I can't think of

(01:05):
a bigger celebrity I've ever met ever, and I do.
I think the thing is too, is that we've all
kind of grown up with Matthew. Yeah, so it feels
like we've all had this like long relationship with him
and then you you know, to sit in a room
in a way with him and be able to ask,
like he's had a million interviews, have you ever met him?

(01:26):
I have not. I remember I was with Janna when
she met him, and I just stood back and just
like I think my mouth was wide open while she
was talking to him. Well, we share the same publicist,
oh and so, and I've never asked my publicist and
she has I mean big people obviously, Like I'm just
like her. Sometimes I feel like i'm her. You know
what's the when you have a lawyer and they just

(01:47):
do it for pro bono pro bono, like I feel
I feel like her pro bono clients. But I'll take it. No,
I mean she gives me pro bono feet you know
thet It's definitely not at all, but I mean she
definitely gives me a little you know the first time

(02:07):
because I've had her Jesus for forever, any time I've
ever had anything, and it's been I've been using her
for years, so you know, she's gives me sometimes a
little bit of a discount. So again feel very pro
bono when she's got the Jada Pinketts and the Matthew McConaughey's,
and I mean, just yeah, that's so ny people and

(02:28):
so but she's not picking up people like me. So
let's put that in perspective. Do you know what I'm saying,
Like you should just to put your put your perspective
back that one doesn't love you. But I know what
I'm saying, like like she's she has real actors and
actresses and you're a real actress. Well, and she loves
working with you. We're always like if you want to.
She's like stopped. She's like like, yes, of course. But

(02:52):
we saw what was it is? It was it an
a c was or no, it was that a CC
awards or something they had for a little while. I
don't even know if they haven't anymore. It was not
a CM or CMA. It was on Fox. It was
a different one. It was some country. It was Country Award.
And I said, Nicole, I've never asked you for one picture, never,

(03:13):
not one picture, not one I have asked her back
in the day. I was like, do you know this
person like in the dating era, because that's like I
like pubblicays like they hook they have each other up,
like that's how I met, you know, whatever, and so whatever, whatever,
and so I said, you know, I've never asked you
for a picture of anybody. I was like, but I

(03:36):
it's Matthew mccamahaey, like please And he was lovely. Oh,
he was so sweet. I just feel like he's always
that way. But you know what the problem is, though,
that was before the cloud. I don't know where that
photo is. No, is it printed? It might be it
had to have been, but there doesn't. It's like not

(03:57):
in my cloud. Well that's depressing, I know, because it's
in am I look back. The only things that are
in my cloud are probably from when I had Jolie same.
I don't have anything. Maybe I have it. I have
a lot of photos. I'll go back in love. I
feel like I'm a hundred. The cloud confuses me, but
also like where did it go? Like where did all
those photos go? Like are they on some drive that

(04:21):
you well? Yeah, so I'm like, where did those photos go?
Zip drive? I don't even I don't even have proof
of my Matthew photo. I remember it, Oh, I remember it.
I remember the dress, I remember the cheese of my smile.
I remember unfortunately, quoting how to lose a guy in
ten days like our love Fern you let it die?
Like he's never fucking heard that before. So I remember

(04:46):
being like, God, I wish I could ask, but I
can't ask. I'm just gonna watch Janna love him. But
she did ask. I guess I never ask. You never did.
I don't, but I did for I mean, I have,
I have. I just feel like for who I feel
like maybe one tree hill or something. At some point, I, oh, yeah,
that tracks. I mean I don't know, you just knew.

(05:11):
You're like, hey, Katherine, why don't you get in this phota?
Oh that's right, I didn't. Yeah, that's probably what it was.
So I didn't have to ask me. But Lance, we
were just like sitting there having a conversation with them,
and then I was like, I'll usually do this, but
I feel like now is like the time I need
the picture with Lance. Yeah. You know what's funny, It's
like I don't ask for pictures anymore because I just
I think once you get to a place, right, then

(05:32):
it becomes weird, like we can't be friends if I
take a picture with you. So I think you think that,
but it's not weird, really, I think so. I don't
think it was weird when you asked to Panga. To Panga,
I was gonna say to Panga and then I was
gonna yeah, daniel Danielle. But I feel like she loved
you just as much and as just as excited. Yes,
And I think it also put me in the fan zone.

(05:57):
That's what I'm thinking, we're ever going to be friends,
you know what I mean? That's because I met her
as a fan, So I think that piece is I
don't necessarily in that instance because what every celebrity forty
year old grew up watching that show. I guarantee you
more celebrities have done that, Like guarantee it, I guarantee it.

(06:22):
I just I feel the way you feel once I've
like documented our first time meeting. I'm a fan. You
can't unde a photo with lance y'all are friends, but
as a fan, like I think like he's so sweet
to me, and he's always been so sweet to me,
but I don't think he would be like when he's
in Nashville, is gonna call me up? Like well, yeah,

(06:42):
I mean yes, no to Penga's probably not calling to Nashville.
I wish she was she gonna call you anyway, No,
and you have a photo, so done right? Well? Sure.
I also think there's a difference between you taking a
picture from me and me taking a selfie with a person,
Like selfies are like friend zone, Like I'm not taking
a self with Jess when I met her with who
Jessica's Jess Jess just just Jess or you have someone else.

(07:07):
That's what usually needs to happen, like like we force it,
like hey Janet, like come on, Janet, ta panga, get
over here and take a photo instead of that, that's
better exactly. That's what she tried to do in those instances.
If there's somebody, but like that whole situation, she was like,
ta panga, Oh, I straight up fan girl. And then
we were in the on the way home from Vegas

(07:30):
in the what was that called like a shuttle? Yeah,
the boy means world cast was in there, so you
know rider who I just had, Like that's not his?
Is that? Wait? Is that his? That his real name? Yeah?
But like and then the older brother was in there,
but he's talking like I have no idea who he is.
And then the whole time I'm like, I know exactly
who you are because I've watched you every Friday. He's like,

(07:52):
I mean, you might not even know who I am.
I was like, no, I actually know exactly who you are.
I think he was trying to make a point. No
he was, Yeah, I think he definitely, But he was sweet.
He was probably wanted probably needs to feel a little
like you know who he is. Well, his point too
is that he doesn't know. He goes, you are, I
don't know who you are? He goes, do you have
a podcast too? I go, don't we? All right? Yeah?

(08:15):
Which it was endearing though. It was sweet. Yeah, so
Vegas overall was good. Yeah it was great. Yeah, good
and then cute, cute, cute, thank you that little bump
and then the shoes you wear pregnant really shots off though,
because I wouldn't even attempt to squeeze these sausages. So
she usually pregnant all the things like I'm like, my

(08:38):
feet are killing me, and she's just like everything is
fine this time. Could oh, but you're him not long
and she was like I cannot walk like she It
was those were tough. She was very mad at our stylist.
I could not walk, my feet were killing me, but
checked them off good. And then everyone was staring at me,
and I was like, I don't care. I get a
free pass. Yeah. Also, that's yeah. And the cat took

(09:03):
her shoes off with and then everyone did, and then
I had Walmart feet. Oh it's drinking, you guys. Shoes
off in public places are hard for me. I go
to a crunchy school. Kids don't wear Matthews. Here, we're
going to take a breath and a break and we'll
be right back. Good, my goodness, good morning, Matthew McConaughey,

(09:41):
how are you this this living room? I'll look back.
You're in the place to be, I mean, where are
you at, buddy. We have an extra chair, a chair
for you over there, right over there. We'll just copy
paste you, put you in there, we'll shift you around.
Thank you so much for coming on wind down. We
just greatly appreciate the time that you're about to spend

(10:04):
with us, So thank you. Well, thanks for having me.
I'm looking forward to it. It's a huge day because
we're here just because really sometimes that's reason enough. Yeah,
just because it's your new kid's book and your New
York Times bestselling author. Again, Matthew McConaughey, how does it feel?
How about that? No big deal? Yeah, that's very very cool.

(10:29):
You know, when I when I wrote green Lights, you now,
all I've ever really done is films. I didn't know
what sort of the measurement was, like what are we calling?
What are we hoping for? What are we shooting for?
Someone to tell me, oh, you want to hope you
get on the top ten. It's like, okay, let's go
for top ten. And then I'm sing come out with
number one. I'm like, okay, And then we've put out
the children's book. I had no idea, I had hopes,
but all of a sudden, tell me, hey, New York

(10:51):
Times I one best seller. I'm like, great, and let
us toot your horn for you too, because green Lights,
I have a very I really really respect that book
a lot. And we'll talk about that later. But Green
Lights stayed on the New York Times best Selling list
for like at least one hundred and ten weeks or
something crazy. I think we're righting one hundred a little

(11:13):
over one hundred weeks now, which is think about I'm
told that's not normal. To understand it's not, and I
I gotta say It's been really enjoyable asking people that
come up to me and go because a lot of
people that read Green Lights don't come up, hey, really
enjoy the book, appreciate it. They like grab me and

(11:34):
when the eye and go, hey, that book. Yeah, and
it did this from me or to that and that
is I mean rewarding in a different way than even
successful movies I've done, because that was the closest extension
of me. The book was of any art I've ever
put out, you know. Besides, it was so honest, you know,

(11:55):
I mean the you know, when you're opening you're starting
to read it, you're like, wow, I mean you went
straight with stuff with your mom, and it was just
like okay, Like you mean, you took us on the
ride with that book, and it was I loved how
vulnerable you got in that book because you humanized yourself.
But you also, I mean, you're you're still you know,
Matthew McConaughey, and you have obviously the name and all

(12:17):
the things to your to your resume. But again, people
look at you and like it's like I want to
be like, hey, so how did you really work through
that with your mom and the forgiveness and all those pieces,
and it's just people can relate to you because of
that book, really truly. I mean I've been I've been
told that. I think I think, you know, some people, obviously,
I think picked it up. Maybe they were a fan

(12:37):
of me and my celebrity. Some people didn't get it
because they were not a fan of me and my celebrity.
But I think anyone who looked at it, I've been told, said, oh,
we were passed the celebrity part on page ten. We
were like WHOA. At the same time, I think the
fact that you know, but it was the celebrity that
they looked at it, and they're like, oh, I can

(12:59):
relate than I thought I could relate to you. You're
relating to me more than I thought you could relate
to me talking about the human experience. So that's been
a really fun part of the ride with that book.
And anyway, now I got just because, which is really
another enjoyable conversation that is different with everybody I'm talking to.
But I've been having just as much conversation, more conversations

(13:21):
I think, with adults about it than I even have
with children about it. Well, yeah, in the book too,
I mean you talk about the kid's book, it's you
talk about forgiveness and that as well, and so I'm curious, like,
what is your overall view on forgiveness. Oh, that's a
fun question. Yeah, you know the couplet and just because

(13:41):
of the young boy on the skateboard and says, just
because I let go doesn't mean that I stopped climbing.
That was about forgiveness. And you know, I mean everything
we do, it seems to be in life is between
letting go and hanging on. It's either between it or
on the other side of it, right, And when do
you do this? I talk about it in green lights?

(14:02):
I talk about it's a yellow light. What we have
a choice? You know? Do I persist? Do I hang on?
I keep trying? Is it's about endurance, resilience, fortitude or
do you go? You know what, No, I'm letting go.
And the world tells us a lot of times, I think,
probably especially males, if you let go, it's weak if

(14:24):
you if you are vulnerable, if that would be called vulnerable,
if you forgive, that maybe a weakness. I remember I
grew up, you never really heard. I've been around a
lot of males that had trouble saying two words. I'm sorry,
I have to admit it. I even have trouble. I
married one. Actually, I'm pident. Yeah, we're working on it now.
I'm working on it too. You know, we all are.

(14:46):
I actually have hard time saying it myself, and it's
and how much how much I think who a lot
of times have the hardest time saying it too is ourselves.
I'm the last one to forgive me, and it's kind
of arrogant and of us, actually, I think, you know,
to be like, oh, I'm so I'm so right about

(15:06):
being judge and jury about what I should forgive myself about. No,
I'm not forgiven. That's kind of it's kind of arrogant.
But forgiveness is a way of climbing, and it is
a way, and it frees up the forgiver even if
the person on the other side has done you wrong.
I mean that couplet also ties into I may forgive you,
but that doesn't mean I still trust. That's a form

(15:28):
of forgiveness, you know what, forgive you, right, but it
doesn't mean I trust you anymore, especially if you're a
repeat offender and you've been doing me wrong or fibbing
to me over and over and over. I mean, one,
shame on you, twice shame on me. But I can
forgive you because that frees the forgiver. That frees the
one doing the forgiving, regardless of what the other one
is doing or not doing, you know what I mean.

(15:50):
So it is a way of climbing in life, evolving
in life. So I have a question for you, because
I would say, naturally, just as a forty two year
old female in the United States, I've always been a
Matthew McConaughey fan because that's just kind of like what
we do. We just love you. We think you're great.
You're in all of our favorite movies. But it's interesting

(16:12):
to me because one of the things as I did
a deeper dive and started to respect you as like
a family man, a husband, you know, a dad, is
that it feels to me like you've always been this
very introspective human. Like you're a very dapper human, but
you're also a very introspective human, which is one of
the reasons I've always kind of gravitated towards you. So
have you always been introspective Matthew? Like you know, as

(16:34):
I'm reading green Lights, and I'm I'm reading you building
the Treehouse, which the cover of just Because is not
lost on me at all. But as I'm reading that,
and I'm thinking, like, you always have seemed to have
this tie to your innertuition or like a general discernment,
even when you seemed care free, it felt to me

(16:55):
like you've just always been a deeper person. So do
you think, Matthew, then so tree House Matthew in fifty
three year old husband father, Matthew has always been the
same in a sense, or has he evolved into someone
that you're just immensely proud of, like the world is
proud of you? I mean, essentially the same. You know.

(17:17):
That's one of the things I learned when I wrote
green Lights, which is based on the fifty first fifty
years of my life. Oh, I remember a lot more
than I thought I forgot. Oh I'm essentially much closer
to the same young person that I thought I was
not anymore. We learn it when become parents. Oh, nature

(17:38):
a lot more powerful than the nurture is very powerful,
but nature has a lot more to do with it
than I thought. When I had children, D and A,
they are who they are. I mean i've I was.
I think I was always introspective. And whether it's whether
it's preparation, I mean, I think the introspection that I

(18:03):
like to prepare and think about and take context and
observe and decide and then think about it this way
or that way or this way in life allows me
to then come across or be oh, he's lazy, fair,
he's relaxed. He kind of rolled out of bed and
kind of just did it, you know, he kind of
just I don't just winging it. But the but the

(18:23):
the introspection I think allows me to feel like and
I like to feel like I'm winging it. I like
to be unscripted in life, but it comes with a
lot of context. I mean, I like to, as I
write in green lights, create my weather so I can't
blow in the breeds. But I'm working on the weather,
and I'm looking at the forecast, you know, what's ahead

(18:44):
of me, and choices and what are going to be
the consequences of choices and what really matters here and
try to understand the other side of who I'm dealing with.
What will be the consequences for you if I do
something this way or that way? And so yeah, I
think the introspection is part of like daily preparing daily

(19:04):
for life. And you know how it is. You get
it going. You've got a system going in this role,
and you don't have to think about it. You don't
want to think about it. Everyone's catching green light, kind
of in a groove. We're in the flow. Things are happening.
I got in the shortest line of supermarket again. You
know what I mean. That lasts, That lasts for a
little while. When you're in it, you think that's it. Oh,
I found it, tadah. No, so a bow you'll come

(19:27):
either you'll create it or the world will create it, right,
or a child to get sick or something, and it
throws a wrench in the whole thing, and then you
just I mean, I think I've I think I've always
had a pretty clear moral moral bottom line of who
who I am. I haven't always lived up to it, I've,
you know, but but I think I've had a clear

(19:47):
when when I when I was when I was off track,
I think I could recognize it and go, that's that
that that behavior is not going to last. It's not
going to bring you many resident jewels. And on ap
you keep that up. That's what I talked about in
Green Lights. There's certain things I've done, like that this
is a stop, this is gonna stay. You're renting this

(20:10):
and go ahead, okay, but know that this is not
it's not you can't sustain this, you know. And just
because though the book obviously is a lot about lessons,
and as we're all obviously moms, what's something that well,
a what is it's kind of twofold. What is one

(20:30):
of the biggest lessons that you've learned that has kind
of shaped who you are? And then what's a lesson
that you wish that your parents would have helped you
with or taught you when you were younger? Yeah, what's
a lesson I've learned? Let me answer made the second

(20:51):
one first, when they would have wished they would have
taught me. You know, we this something I learned later
in life. And it's a double edged sword because it's
almost like so many times in life, our greatest strength
can be our greatest weakness, especially if we exaggerate that strength.
Right my, my, my parents, we were so resilient. It

(21:17):
was so get up, dust yourself off, come on, get up,
do it again. You want you want to quick quick
write it about your shoes. I'm gonna introduce you to
give it no feats. Whoa you were just like onto
the baseline necessities. The thing is, if you brush yourself
off so quickly every single time you step in doo doo,

(21:39):
you're a repeat offender. You keep stepping in the same
pilot dudu every time around the bend, right because you
never really stopped to go hang on a second before it.
Dust myself off. Let me have a look back over here.
Oh there it is. I know, I see where it is.
I understand why I keep stepping in it. So next
time around the bend in life we can go. I

(21:59):
know this is where it's coming up. I'm going to
dodge it this time. So my that was one of
my great resilience is one of my greatest strains. I
would even say preparations one of my greatest strains. But
when I overexaggerate those, I can be a repeat offender
and just have great resilience and endurance. But boy, I

(22:20):
get up. I keep dusting myself off instead of maybe learning.
If I prepare, prepare, prepare. I love to prepare well,
sometimes I can prepare myself I'm going going like, well,
I prepared myself right through doing it, you know what
I mean, So it's no one when to Some of
those are two of my greatest strains, I think, but
also two things that I have to watch exaggerating so

(22:43):
they don't become a weakness. And the first side of
that question, what was it? What is one of the
things maybe I learned from them that from my parents, well,
they do you wish you would have? I think you
kind of answered that though, too, because they would have
had that. I kind of I learned that later on,

(23:03):
like in my thirties, I realized that, and I didn't go, oh,
damn it, Mom, damn it, Dad, why didn't you teach
me that? I just noticed, Oh, we never really I
keep I keep doing this, And because my mom is
the she's she is really an example of the value
of denial if you truly commit to it. I resonate

(23:26):
with that. Our therapy session last week with our therapist
is around the same thing, and then having to just
go okay, but you know, they don't they didn't do
the therapy, and that they don't know the boundaries. And
now I'm feeling like I'm the adult and it's like,
wait a minute, I'm just like, but they're also with
my moms, you know, our moms. We're trying to figure
out how to go on with with having all these

(23:48):
things that you wish that they would do. But shouldn't
we just give them some amnesty though, especially that they
that age. It's like, because we love I try to
change my mom. I talk about it in green Lights.
For eight years, her and I had a strange relationship
where I could not have more than a conversation of
my mom doing good, love you by anything she asked me.

(24:08):
I couldn't tell her personally because she didn't have a governor.
She could go to the she'd go to the press.
She showed up on our copy taking people through my
childhood rooms in and this is where he lost his virginity.
And I'm like, mom, She's like, oh, I didn't think
anybody would know. I didn't think he may be watching.
It was like, no, what's actual years where I could
not talk to her and I tried to change her.

(24:30):
I need you as a mom right now. I'm not
a fan, and I you know, isn't that we're kind
of like the forgiveness, but I don't trust you part
that comes in, Yeah, yeah, it is. I mean that's
I think what we've had I've had to do with
my own mother, who had those situations with I think
you get to a point where you can forgive them,
but you can't trust them and they may not be

(24:51):
a mother figure to you or and I think we
have to just go my hunch when I was wanted,
when I but I tried to pull off was I
kept trying to go, well, I'm going to give you
more information to see if I can trust you with
it again, and it's like, well, we're trying to prove
that point. Just don't give it to them, don't give
them that much, and just go that's where our relationship is,

(25:13):
and let's let's make it healthy and fun with what
we can both handle. And do you say, oh, but
it's a shallow relationship, Now I say shallow. There's a
lot of people that I friends and relationships I have
in my life that I think are better because they
are at at arm's length. We don't need full, close up,
all detail, all access intimacy with everybody in our life

(25:36):
to overload. There's some people I like running into a
couple of times a year that's where we're best. Yeah,
I've learned that too. It's not everyone gets an all access.
I'd get every I'd get everybody a VIP all access
tell you everything. And now I've like, you know, almost
forty I'm like, oh, that list has gone down to
just maybe a one hand now of you know, the

(25:57):
acts important because you realize you're like, it's just yeah,
I'm in a season of relationship within capacity and that's
just how I keep it. My mom is in that list. Yeah, yeah, well,
and I think that's okay. We've had that conversation several
times about our moms, and you know, how do you
get to that point of just being okay with that
being at a place I think I've been there longer

(26:18):
than y'all have or you know, I don't know, but
it's kind of you get to that place where like,
that's okay, this is what the relationship looks like, and
I'm okay with that. I think that. I think that's
the place to get to because it's it's amnesty for
them and us. That's what I was going to say.
It's more relieving for me at that point, honestly, just
to go, I know what I'm dealing with and it
is what it is. And I think we sometimes in

(26:41):
our age groups will say, like, for us, it feels
like we've like failed or we've there's an acceptance that
feels like it comes with some sort of guilt or
like failure, But that's not it. It's just like we
can observe. And that's what I've always Actually, one of
the few words I would use top few words to
describe you from my seat is just a girl in

(27:01):
America is you're a very observant human. And that to
me has never come up across like you know, lazier unprepared.
To me, it's just always like he's taking it in.
It's intentional behavior. And I think your wife just recently
spoke out about that too, that everyone's got this idea
of who Matthew McConaughey is. And she's like, listen, you
don't know what is stunning. By the way, she's a

(27:25):
beautiful human. She's teaching me how to make you know
Coleslaw without Mayo online, and I'm like, I love this chick.
She's awesome. Do you feel like that is? Has it
been interesting to just watch her say what she knows
to be true? And to talk about the relate. Even
she talks about the relationship with your mom. Yeah, well,

(27:48):
I'm you know, we also I would say this my
family and part of it. I think Camillan i as well.
We we shares the value of sense of humor and comedy.
I mean the stuff she said about my mom and
my mom calling her a different name. That right, it
passes that an issue. Some people are like, oh my gosh,

(28:10):
You're like, no, this was this was great and Camility
wasn't wounded about it either. It was just it was
just it's funny. It's for some people, you know. I mean, look,
we say this all the time in my family, and
what tickles us may bruise others, you know, but but
we but it's that's just too and people go to,

(28:31):
you know, we mad at him. I'm like, no, that's again,
I might changing her. That's mom. She was looking out
for her youngest. She didn't know my feelings, but she
tested my feelings and tested the woman that I had
the feelings for. That's kind of in the big picture,
you got it's pretty cool actually, and the woman that
I was in love with it went right through it.
And when she went through it, and stood up and said, hey,

(28:52):
miss McConaughey, let me tell you something. My mom went
there a week ago. No, and you know, so, I
mean it's we You know, we're pretty honest. We're honest
about who we are. We as you were talking about filters,
not that we're not an open book. I mean, I've

(29:13):
we've been doing this long enough to know I can
tell when the thought comes my mind it's about to
come out of my mouth. Oh if I say that,
that's going to be a headline. Oh if I say there.
You know, certain things in the Book of Green Lights,
there are certain things were like why didn't you explain
in the opening some of these insets like no, no,
no, no no, because that would have been the headline and
that's not what the book was about. Yeah. So, I mean,

(29:35):
but I try to we try to not make it
as hard. You know, when you're first, when you're first starting.
And I know when I first got famous and at
Mike's in front of my face, I was given I
had two years of giving the most boring interviews in
the world because I had stock answers, because I didn't
want to. He'd be fresh and off the cuff, and

(29:55):
that's a great question and then be frank and be honest. No,
I was just giving these stock answers and they were okay,
but damn they were born. I mean, do you do
it for a while, you get to go, you kind
of know what's what's worth sharing. Know that yes, I'm
talking to the three of you, but yes this is
being recorded and yes will be broadcast. Unlike what my
mother said when she had CBS or a hard copy

(30:16):
in the house, she goes, ok, I thought it was
just me and the cameraman. Yeah, that camera that tools
being disputing you in a whole lot more people, right, Well,

(30:37):
and just because what do you like? What's the overall
message that you want kids to to have when you know,
when when they're done reading it, and when the mom
or dad is hey to Life's life's about life's poetry,
life's inhum into life's context. What may you may feel
one way to day and you may feel different way

(30:59):
tomorrow about the same situation, instead of that being like,
oh my gosh, there's something wrong with me. No, that's okay.
We are all walking contradictions, consistently contradictions. That two things
can be true at the same time, that that that
I can. I can wake up and be in a

(31:20):
great mood and send you a text and I forgot
to put the wink emoji on it. But you had
a bad morning because your dogs sick, and you received
that text and it sounds like I'm coming at you. Oh,
you know, I don't know where you are. You don't
know where I am, but hey, can I take the
time to go? Oh? You didn't receive that in the

(31:41):
same way that I gave that Oh, okay, because I
just thought it was obvious. No, it's not always obvious,
So checking in where someone else is can of You
know how many times do you hear kids and adults.
I know I do it myself and I'm I'm excited
and I'm really nervous. Well, when you're young, you're like,
is that okay to feel those two things at the

(32:02):
same time. I think I need to I'm supposed to
fill one or the other. Right, No, I just need
to be excited. No, you're excited, but you can be
nervous at the same time. That's that's how it works.
Just to know that's okay. As children are growing and
finding out their own identity, trying to figure out who
I am, who they are, and it goes it swings
all over and it goes here, and then it goes

(32:24):
over here to go that's okay, instead of getting so
frustrated or confused. That's what I hope children get out
of it, and how the adults as adults are reminded
of that. Because there's a proper leniency that we can
better have with each other and ourselves. There's also a
spot to where we have to say the buck stops here,
and I'm not putting up with it anymore, you know,
but we can be more properly lenient with ourselves and others,

(32:46):
and I think understand and still make a choice about
what we want to do, make a judgment, be discerning,
but here both sides of the story. Understand both sides
of the situation before we do it. Dude, I think
I'm still trying to and that almost sport we all are, right. Yeah.
The part in just because it says even though I
am still doesn't mean that I'm not busy was something

(33:11):
that really hit me in this. I'm in a very
observant season right now, just a lot of grief and
then working through that. You know, you learn so much
through grief and you learn what's important, and you learn
what's noise and what's valuable information. And so I love
books like this to sit with my little ones and
be able to like read it, but at the same

(33:32):
time just be reminded of like all of the holding
a both end, Like that's a big thing on this
on the show all the time. I have an and
tattoo on my thing from therapy and going through divorce.
It's like I'm allowed to be broken and hopeful at
the same time. Yeah, you know, still and busy or yes.
And is the paradox, which I think is where the

(33:53):
truth of living is. It's you know, a lot of
people go that don't bring that word up to mind,
a big word. It's a cool word, I mean. And
actually I think and we admit just admitting how we're contradictions.
Then if contracts become something really valuable, which is the paradox,
which is both are true, two things can be true
at the same time. Comes from my favorite Bible verse

(34:15):
in the Bible, Matthew six twenty two. If they I
be single, the whole body will be full of light.
That's all about judgment, that's all about this perceived duality
we see if two things are posing, so they must
foot head and if they mailed, if they come together.
Oh that's compromise. Well no, maybe it's not compromise. Maybe

(34:35):
it's actually just a whole lot more truth and by witness.
When we do that and have the vulnerability to say like, listen,
I'm not nailing it or I'm holding both of these
things at once, it's so interesting because it's almost impossible
for people to live in a fense with you when
you have that kind of maturity or that kind of
acceptance of just what things are, what they are in
this moment. Do you find that that's true? Oh, fense,

(34:58):
live it. Yes, yes, it's true, Yeah, it is. It's
it's that that's the opening couplet. Just because they threw
the dark doesn't mean that it's stuck. It's like when
you're in that that head spirit frame, they can I
can throw the dart, but it can't stick unless you
let it right in that head space, that thing just

(35:20):
thing evolved. You're like, I can't stick. I'm not going there. Yeah,
and just because you threw it doesn't mean it's sticking.
I know we only have like one more minute with you,
but I know Kat. We were because we were talking
about I'm like, you know, with my my youngest or
not my oldest, actually she's almost eight, but I'm always like, honey,
you want, you want to talk to me, or you

(35:40):
can tell me anything. And we were reading the breakdown
and well, yeah, and I was, you know, I saw
that you had talked about you and your wife. How
you so I have a preteen, a teenager and then
a younger one as well, so closer in ages with you,
But how you don't want or expect your children to
tell you everything, right, And I'm very intrigued by that

(36:01):
because you know, I grew up in a family where
we didn't talk about anything, so I've kind of gone
that opposite, like I want us to talk about everything.
So I'm very intrigued and kind of your reasoning behind that,
and you know how that works for you guys. And
also I'm in the car with my daughter being like
I can see she sat out the window, and I
just want her to be so freaking happy because I
know I feel maybe she's thinking about I don't know,
like she's got two houses or I don't know what

(36:23):
I make up that she's thinking. But I'm like kind
of you know, you can talk to me whenever you
want to talk to me, and you can tell me everything.
And I'm like, and I just now I feel like
she almost shuts down more because I'm like down her.
I know, I know, I know. It's look and then go.
In all relationships, there is value in playing hard to
get interesting with kids, you know, Oh, make them come

(36:50):
chase you a little bit, you know what I mean.
But the I want I want him to have access,
and I want to keep access with them, and I
want to time to be a friend. And there's damn
sure time to be a parent, especially in the early years.
You know, they don't they needed as parents more than friends.
But that friend is I'll share with you. But I

(37:12):
also want Look that treehouse on the cover that in
my childhood, that's where I had my secrets. That was
my place. Now I wouldn't telling my parents, maybe a
friend or two that show, but that's where I wrote
things down. That's why we have a diary or a journal.
It's not for us to see. And I want to
let my kids know I'm not opening your journal. I'm

(37:33):
not opening that's yours. Damn. I mean, I've opened to
her journal. I'm here a journal, opener, I am. I
don't know things, but there's some things, I mean, in
our relationship, I don't want to. There's things that my
wife I don't want to. I don't know, and leave

(37:54):
my eyes gonna go through mine. I'm not I don't
want to, And I want my kids to get out. Look,
it's kind of like I want them to get it.
We want our kids to get up to some good mischief,
some good, healthy mischief. We want them to fall and
skin their knee. Don't necessarily want to fall and break
their arm, but we want them to stand in their knee,

(38:14):
you know what I mean. I don't want to insulate
them so much. It's got that metaphor for like we've
all had our kids climbing in the tree and it's
like they're out there, they fell from there, and that
that's gonna hurt. And you kind of look at where
they fall on. It's grass, it's Saint Augustin. That'll soften
a little bit, and then all of a sudden they
get up to a certain height and flack nervous. Right

(38:37):
now because they'll get nervous and they haven't fallen yet.
Children aren't afraid of heights until they fall. So you're like,
I don't want to be afraid of heights too early,
but I do want to say, hey here, Mom needs
to talk to you. We got two friends. Come up. Yeah,
they're here right now. Just take your time, come on
down right. And you're sitting there going oh, if they'd
have fallen from that, that could have been really, really bad,

(38:59):
you know. So I wanted to get up to some mischief.
I want him to have some secrets that I want
to tell them. You know what, don't tell me that.
And that's an also a version indirectly of playing the
hard to get. That's actually sometimes when they will tell us, well,
that's really good tips right there. I like to go
home and you don't have to replay don't tell me.

(39:22):
I like that. Well, it's like, how do you get
a kid to smile in a picture. You tell them
don't smile, don't do it. Yeah, well, Matthew, thank you.
I have one rapid fire for you, just because of
our our the age we are, Andy, you're Mary. It's
all I gotta know how to lose a guy in
ten days our wedding planner. Oh and you're Mary. I

(39:44):
need one. You have to just pick one. You have
to give it to me. Gosh, we look, nope, there's
no there's don't give me the like, oh, I'm gonna
play both sides and it doesn't. The actresses on the
classic Romantic Commies of all time we're in a class. Yeah,
rom Coms of all time. It's a gift that keeps
on given to me too. I mean there are some

(40:04):
people that come up on Valentine's Day, Mother's Day and
throughout the year and they are like, bake im right up, maga,
how's the fern? You let it die? Okay, all right,
enough said I love it. Well, Matthew, thank you so
much for coming on wine down. We appreciate it so
so so much. Thanks for letting just be excited and nervous.

(40:27):
We love you. Talk to you next time. Okay, thanks bye. Okay,
that guys, that was like great, Yeah, it was so good.
He doesn't allow you to be nervous. By the way.
I wanted to just I'm like, I can't open a can.
I'm glad you pulled that last question. I was. I
was like, we we got a rap. I was scared

(40:49):
to go into it. Got you, but is it such
an important question, I know, but I was like, there's
so many things with it, but I think we covered
it like in a couple of minutes. It was great. Yeah,
I love him. He's smart too, again with his words.
The thing is is I wanted his advice on like everything.
I'm like, could you just sit with me and tell
me how to like be a person, because essentially I
told my husband before I left the house this. Maria said,

(41:11):
he goes, well, what do you want to say? And
I said, really, I just want to say, give me
a conmencement speed, like I just I'm in need of that.
Like he's so wise. You want to drive in a car,
I want to drive in a link in with him?
So interesting. I read Green Lights the book, like actually
I love books, like to turn the pages like a

(41:31):
literal book, you know, instead of like a Kindle version
or whatever. And then I often will couple it with
listening to the audio so I don't have to miss
a book. I can keep doing it on folding laundry
or whatever. And when the baby was really really little,
I that Green Lights is what kept me Like I mean,
I was just flying, I was just in It was
just so beautiful and you're in this like very raw,

(41:52):
hormonal moments where everything the world is opened up and
you've been in the thin places. And then I tried
to listen to the audio book and I couldn't get
the linking commercial out of my head, and I thought,
I think I gotta go back to just reading the
pages as I read it in a different voice than him.
Would love to hear him reading. Well, most moms did enjoy.

(42:14):
My husband came the laundroom and he goes, is that
Matthew McConaughey, And is it? Indeed? It is? Well, alright, alright, alright,
what an icon you guys, iconic Matthew cone y'all get
his kid's book just because I mean, I truly want
to read it. Oh, I'm getting yes for me too.
I think my Coppy lands today on my porch. Actually,

(42:35):
I got ext Amazon to a couple and I'm gonna
go by journals or my kids and say, hey, you
write in your journal. You don't have to tell me.
I know I'm such a it's hard, but he's right.
I mean, there's so much true. You guys just think
about I think about that a lot, and I know
that I know that we have all walked a very
honest with each other, whether we share all the details

(42:56):
on the podcast specifically or out of just respect, we
keep ourselves here. But I feel like we all grew
up in a way. There is some there is some
good old days to what we all experienced. Like I mean,
I was doing things I shouldn't be doing. I was,
you know it, partying in cornfields and bonfires, and like,
I want my kids to have those memories. But then

(43:18):
it's like the fallen out of the tree thing he
talked about. I mean, I'm the girl that's down there
with like a safety net and a harness and a
caribbeane are going there, you know, But that's not well.
I think it's hard in this day and age because
I'm not a helicopter parent. In that situation, I'm like,
let them go, let them run, let them do, let
them fall. But then with like like phones and and
all that, I'm very much a helicopter parent and I

(43:40):
cannot figure out that like that's smart though, yeah, I
agree it is, but I think there also has to
be a little bit of a I don't have to say, well,
what's going on here? I get really bad about that,
Like what's going on with this girl here, and what's
going on with this there, And so I have to
back away and only really pay attention to the really important,
but let and fall maybe in their friendships or maybe

(44:02):
you know, learn those lessons. And that's so hard for me.
That's because you're a good mom. Yeah, but I also
can step in a little too much, I think, because well,
for me, I make up that I'm doing that because
I want to be a different version of my parents,
well saying of what my younger child needed. So I
might be you can talk to me, they tell me,

(44:24):
and I'm there for you. And so one thing I
did do just recently is I explained to love that
there's kind of two friends and two types of friends
in the world. And they'll be a type of friend
that needs to tell somebody it's in their DNA. The
minute you tell them something, they have to tell one
other person. That's just who they are. And there's people
like that. And I said, and there's other people that
you can tell that are a vault. You know that
you just need to say something to you know, it's

(44:45):
safe and they can keep it in like a little
house and it's not a secret. It's just private information.
And I said, I am a vault friend and she said, wait,
what do you mean? So we're talking about it and
I said, all I know stuff about like all my friends,
you know, and I don't want to tell anybody, and
it's okay because I'm safe to them. I was like,
not being a good friend, y'all. This chick opened up
her vault started. It's the cutest. She was like, I

(45:10):
gotta tell you. Emmy asked a boy to marry him
and he said yes, and it was just precious. But
I thought, like all of the time, I'm so like, well,
you can tell me anything. But I'm also like a
little hood too. I feel like she can tell I'll
get like angry or irritated with people, and I'm not
afraid to sit. The record drew you, right, But I
think then she's like nervous about me in a different

(45:31):
way than I was nervous about my parents. It's we
just had Me and Emmy just had this conversation the
other day because we're kind of talking about like the hierarchy,
hierarchy and friendships and I was like, okay, so this
one is this is the girl that rules the roost.
She's deciding who's friends with who this week. Y'all are
upset right now because you're not in with her. But
guess what, you're talking trash right now. You're gonna want
to be friends with her next week, you know. And

(45:51):
I'm going to be mad when you asked me to
have her over next week, because you're telling me everything
that she's She was like, okay, got it, So that's
where that's coming in. I'm you kind of can't tell
me all that because then Mama bears coming out and
I'm like, well, she ain't coming to my house. I
don't like her, you know, or whatever. So it's just
all so interesting. Oh when that age starts, Oh oh yeah,
it's fun. I had to talk with Amma at school

(46:15):
my own one on one topic. Michigan moms are wired different,
are I mean? I mean, yeah, it's just got in there. Yeah,
sometimes she gotta did you know what? The fact that
we even cared this much, I think means that we're
on a good track. I should just take a deep
shouldn't be too hard on us. Yeah, well, everyone go
get just because because because because because because we all

(46:38):
need it. Okay, and
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