Dealing with It with Tracy Crossley

Do you ever wonder why people stay in bad relationships? Have you felt unable to leave a person who you know is bad for you? Jana and her friends get some insight on insecure attachments from relationship expert Tracy Crossley. She shares some incredibly moving words about how to move on from an unhappy marriage.

Plus Jana and her friends close out #MomJanuary by sharing their best pieces of mom advice.

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See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Find down with Janet Kramer, Michael and I'm her radio
podcast Mom January, and I'm all alone, not all of
that alone. Easton Tory. Are you there, We're here here
eastn You sound rough right now, buddy. You know, I

(00:24):
hear this thing about the man cold and I'm trying
to uh stomp on that because I'm powering through. Man,
I'm getting my work done. I feel like we could
have a whole show about the man flew. Does that
mean that you're not enjoying some some good drinks lately?
You know, I'm still finding time to uh to have

(00:45):
a party. You don't feel like? My wife is not sick,
so she's she's really kicking back lately. Let me tell you, Um,
so I've been having these Bachelor parties right because you know,
with the whole like theme of like Mom January. I
don't know. I'm just like, this is like let's all
meet up and then watch the Bachelor. And so we've

(01:08):
been doing that and it's been I really like, I
want to talk about the girls, but I mean, I
want to keep the focus. But I I have to
tell you this is gonna sound so crazy, but I
feel like why I have my two girlfriends coming in.
They're going to be here any second. But um, I've
been telling a lie because I know you want to

(01:30):
know about it, like actually do so, like because you
know me, like I'm like a red wine drinker, right,
So I've been trying to like spice things up a
little bit for you know, the mom like Bachelor viewing
or whatever. So I don't know if anyone watches my Instagram,
but I've I posted about it probably like a month ago. Um,

(01:52):
it's juicy, it toward it's like the drink works. Yes, yes,
we I saw that because you were like you were
sitting on that by your bar. Tend to write, I
mean your bar, like the bar Connor and stuff. So
like Catherine, who's one of the girls that's gonna be here,
because she's always just like you only drink wine, like
you know, whenever we go somewhere, like you're never like
having like cocktails, and I was just like, well that's changing, um,

(02:17):
because honestly, the truth is I never know how to
make them, which is why I like, it's easy to
uncork a bottle, it's a one and done, but when
it comes to like a margarita or like a Moscow Mule.
I'm like, I don't even know like what like liquor
goes in there, because I'm not like bake on liquor.

(02:37):
So I've done this thing for Drink Works um and
it is the most incredible thing I've ever had. I
gotta feel like I'm like doing a spot for them.
I'm like no. So they come over and I'm like,
because I just I'm like trying to spice it up
this month a little bit, you know, like I've been
doing like a lot of work on myself. I'm trying

(02:59):
to like spice my my life. And so I'm like,
you know what, I love my red wine, but I'm
gonna try something new. And so when I had the
Drink Works thing, I was like, yes, So I've been
making these margaritas and you guys, it's been like my
biggest lie because they're like, how do you make this?
And I'm like, well, you know, it's just a little
bit of like this and that, and and then I

(03:22):
think I said like I don't remember what liquor I said,
but Catherine totally outsted me and she's like, that's not
in a margarita. And I was like like I'm totally out,
so I had to show them what it was. But
I don't know, I'm just I got this totally. This
is crazy. But it's almost like you know those pods. Yeah,
they send you pods of everything that's in So that's liquor.

(03:44):
It has the liquor in it, and it also has
the ingredients of what comes in like a margarita, so
you don't have you don't buy two separate pods necessarily,
it's like it's all in one. It's all in one.
So literally, you put the pod in the drink works
thing and you press the thing down and outcomes a
perfectly tasting margharita. It blows my mind. And I did

(04:05):
it to Mike the other day. Two I was like, hey,
how do you want a Moscow mule? And he about
fell over and I was like, no, no, baby, is
seriously do you want a Maskow mule? And he was
just like do you even know what that is? And
I was like, I'm about to rock your world, baby.
So I went into the bar and he like, obviously
forgot that I have this amazing thing in the bar,
and so I made him a drink and he was

(04:26):
just like, oh, it's drink Works, and I was like, yeah, honey,
but come on, give me like credit work, credit is due,
but no, it's awesome. It comes with um the liquor
in it, the one pod, all the stuff, so it's
awesome anyway. So I just you know, if anyone's having
any parties out there, I would definitely suggest trying to
get the Drink Works. I mean, with all these awards
shows coming up, it's literally the perfect thing because then

(04:49):
you're not stuck behind the bar all night long, so
it's perfect. They have like a Cosmopolitan, Margharita, Singara, Moscow mule,
my tie. I don't even know what's in a my
tie exactly. So I get what you're saying. Why it's
so easy you just put it in and then it's
perfect cause I mean, while you're judging everybody's outfits, being
like that's great, who were it best, and you're just
drinking your drink and I can't look. Jana just said

(05:12):
she's moving on from wine. I'm not moving on. I'm
just now expanding because now I don't have to I
don't need to know what's in it because it's pre
made for me. So thank you. So I just like
this is this is like my shout out to Drink
Works to say thank you for not only you know,
making super Bowl and everything looking great soon. I appreciate you. Yeah,

(05:33):
I was gonna ask you. Also, nothing's worse than a
strong drink. You know when people don't have the portions correct?
Do you feel like the thousand percent? Do you feel
like it's perfect? I'm I'm not kidding with you, Tori.
It's the It's the coolest thing ever. Um. I mean,
it's it's like a curing but with the pod, it's
just it's it has everything measured in there. It's fantastic.

(05:57):
So just give it a ring. All you have to
do is be red carpet ready with the Drink Works
home bar b Cury. Get one now on drink works
dot com and please enjoy responsibly. Oh my ladies are
walking in perfect timing. I feel like it's the end
of an era and it's really making me sad. I
have closure issues to end. Well, Mom, January is coming

(06:17):
to an end. Can't we just keep going? Is this
the launch of mom February? Did we just make something?
I don't want to break up you guys. I was
driving in today and I was like, I really just
don't want this to be over. It's been really therapeutic.
I had like the Laguna Beach theme song playing in
my head. It was like very sad and graduation feeling.
What was the theme song? Um, I'm not a singer.

(06:41):
There's only one of those in this room. Don't make
me do it, and it's Eastern Crickets. Pretty go. Um
now what it's funny because I was I think we
should do a segment at Lee once a month. I agree,

(07:02):
but I don't want to break up with you guys.
So yeah, this is how it went in high school too.
We took a break before we broke up because I
have like issues separating from people. You know, it's really funny.
I'm gonna go back to that. But my therapist, so
we've just been doing the month of January besides you
know Mom, you know Mom. Month has been just like
real deep in like therapy, and so I probably didn't

(07:24):
even know if I should say this, but my therapist,
you know, we're doing just kind of all different kinds
of work and um, like that one letter that she
made me write, but then she emailed me today and
was just like, hey, for our session tomorrow, I'd like
it if you brought a picture of your father and
then other men that you've been in relationships with. I
was like, it was like defined relationship. I was like,

(07:45):
because we're gonna have a roll a deex here, Like
what do you what are you thinking? So she's just like,
She's like, you're so funny. She's like, no, just men
that have impacted your life. And I was like, oh,
this is going what is just run that? Are we
talking like high school sweetheart to like you know the
you know? But she said here right, it means to

(08:05):
pull up the email because she was very specific about it. Man,
we just went through this last night. I had a girlfriend.
I were talking about what relationships were two men and
what relationships are two girls. It is really a little
in alignment. That's why I said define relationship because I've
had there's there's been different relationships. And she goes, oh, yeah,
this is our thing, Hi, Janna, for our session tomorrow,

(08:26):
please bring in a photo of your father and each
man you have been in a relationship with. We're going
to use these in our work. Thank you. Is it
like a lineup like I envisioned it to be? Like
pick one of these in a crime, to which I said, amy,
ha ha ha, define relationship. She said, she was, Okay,

(08:49):
you are hilarious. And she goes those relationships that you
consider impactful in your life and emotionally meaningful, good or bad. Again,
we add a fine relationship. So it's like, what are
you looking at? I'm just looking at Oh she's looking
just doing a quick Google Church, and I'm just like,

(09:09):
but then I started thinking about two and this is
I'm going so all over the all over the place.
But some of these I don't really have pictures of
because I'm like, she just like, bring my Instagram, like Google, Google.
Some maybe can't be googled, you know, we hope not.
Actually yeah, the Google list are probably the most secure
relationship to bed. I'm just I'm a little nervous about it.

(09:34):
I'm like, what is she gonna do you have like
a type? No, I mean it doesn't seem to me. Catherine.
So funny. Remember I called you the other day and
I was like, hey, if you want to pick me up?
I three at Whole Foods. Real cute high school boy.
I remember his name, what's his name? Bailey? Bailey? I
love you. So I'm like because I thought Bailey on
the rocks. So I hang up and Pressing goes, who's

(09:55):
that and I said Janna and I'm a horrible liar.
And he's like what she called about? And I said, oh,
and I just got really hot and sweaty. And he's
like what, And I was like, it's just a mom thing.
Is really funny. There's this guy that I would check
out and he's like really, and I'm like, don't worry.
Instacart is not like that's a problem for me. High

(10:15):
school boy. He was college, don't might No. I was
just we were just having a day and so and
so I called her and I was when I was
in the check and I just felt so ugly. I
felt so mom and just like you know, just I
just like front the old sweatshirt and then there's sweet Bailey, Hey,

(10:38):
many ready to check out? And I was just like,
you're so cute, and you know, he just was like
so kind and so sweet and just he was just like,
I hope you have a beautiful day. And I was
just like, you're beautiful. Man. One more common, I'm gonna
have to call security. So then I called Christen was
just like, hey, if you want to really get pick
me up right now, like go to Whole Food stile

(10:59):
three and I said, did you hear my tire sqeeling out?
Did you go to and then you're gone. I did
tell Michael though, just in this in the defense, because
I thought about that. I was like, man, So I
just called Kristen and I told her because I'm like,
I would be upset. Well actually, but I mean the family.
He's like a high school college kids. So I told
I told him. I was like, you know, I still

(11:20):
got it. I had a ma'am, maybe I don't. I
love you so much, but if you're right, but it
maybe it then okay. So to full circle this it
flashed me back to then my high school sweetheart. So
like for tomorrow session, it's like, it's interesting the relationships
that have impacted us in our life. So or vision

(11:44):
you walking in with like a yearbook stack. Well this
was when I was, you know, thirteen, but no, it was.
It's so interesting because all the work that I've kind
of been doing this month, she it all goes obviously
back to like my dad issues, which again we're great now,
but it's just so funny how each relationship you still

(12:05):
bring a piece of that into each relationship. I brought
more than a piece. What did you brought? Like luggage?
And I was like, don't look behind the curtain. Just
say yes to marry me and we'll talk about this
later in the Yeah. But anyways, sorry about my little rent.
I love your rent, ma'am. Ma'am do you still have it?
I don't know on you, ma'am. He wants you to
pack his lunch. There's a different But anyways, I've really

(12:30):
enjoyed mom Month, and as as excited as I am
to go back to relationship talks, I do think that
we should get We should do at least a once
a month secret ballot right now and we can all
put our votes in. Sorry Mike, you voted off the
island off. Well know because one of so I did
questions before I left, and then I said ask questions

(12:51):
and they said, can you and your girls do a
mom podcast all the time? And I was just like, yes,
yea thousand percent um best piece of advice for a
first time mama to be. So I told them to
send some questions and that was one, what do you
think your best piece of advice would be? Mine would

(13:14):
be scheduling, scheduling on like getting the baby on a
schedule early. So someone asked, when you talked about that,
how do you get someone on like which schedule because
there's so many different sleeping schedules. Um, for you, I mean,
I like the Oh gosh, I can't remember what it
was called, but it's similar to baby Wise, but not
so strict. It was a little bit less. Maybe ferber

(13:36):
I could be making that up. I'm not sure, but um,
I just think the schedule in general is what helps
and just having that, you know, set bedtime very important. Um. Sorry,
now I'm just laughing. I'm sorry. I just flashed back
to our group text between the three of us and
can we please Kristen sent a photo of well a

(14:00):
video and then definitely love pooped in her but when
she was in mom hell in the bathroom for an hour,
I'm the number one and the number two business because
she went in the How soon we forget? Oh what

(14:24):
a miss? Do you want my advice? You want to
talk about poop and a swimsuit? No? But I agree
with Katherine's. I think schedule is very important. I think
babies need it. I think it's great you guys are
both really good at that. We did baby Wise. Yeah,
but you also, like with your husband and stuff, that's
hard because he's on the road. That's hard to san Yeah,
you're great. I just think that helps you your sanity.

(14:46):
It does help yourself to mom sanity. Yeah. But I
also think that they are better adapted to the kids,
you know what I mean. But they know what to expect. Yeah,
but we did that every feed play What is it
I think it was. I think it was baby Wise
play Sleep Yeah, something that, but it did. It worked
for Jolie, it worked for Jay's like we were super

(15:07):
obsessed with that. What's your best piece of mom advice?
I actually got this advice from Jesse James Decker an interview.
Um this I read this while I was pregnant with
love Bugs. This had to be about four years ago,
and Jesse said, do one thing a day that makes
you feel like yourself, like you could be like I

(15:28):
think for her, I remember this example. I don't know
if it was hers or someone else that she cited,
but she said, like she loves to wear lipstick and
it makes her feel like a person. So she was
like there it was days basically where she looked broke
down and oversized sweatpants with like dirty hair. But she
would wear lipstick, and so I kind of adopted that
and I did. Um. I was at home with Love
the first year a lot alone, and I would like,

(15:48):
for me, it was curling my hair, and so I
would just that seems so silly, but it just made
me feel like a person. I never left the house.
It just reminded me too, like it made me feel
pretty or something. But I liked she was like, whether
it's a hot cup of coffee, whether it's lipstick or
reading a book, or just pick one thing a day
that you is attainable for you to do that makes
you feel like yourself. And that saved me a lot

(16:10):
of days. Silly. I had nothing to do with the baby,
but maybe that's why I helped. No. I love that.
I think it helps probably postpartum too, Yeah, yeah, because
I mean literally, just sitting in a condo for like three,
six or five days, it's a little wears you out. Yeah.
I think my best piece of advice for the first
time mama to be is I remember the first two

(16:32):
weeks after having both kids, and remember how, like you know,
you just start crying for no reason not to hold
in that cry, let it out. It feels so good.
I remember the second time with Jason, I was like,
I don't know, it just felt good, like just embrace
the the ugliness of it all, because it goes by
so fast, too fast. Like I look at Jason now

(16:54):
and I'm just like, so, you're not a baby anymore. Um,
how did you know you were need to have kids?
You don't? Really? For you? Ah? I want It was
so fast with us. I mean it was like, but
I will say in previous relationships and in a previous marriage,

(17:16):
every time when someone would say when you guys gonna
have kids, because we had been together so long, I
would say, I'm not ready yet. But then when I
met my person, it was fast, fast, fast, and I
was like, oh, I'm gonna have babies with you? Like
it just so that felt maybe when you feel like
you have a real partner. Yeah, okay, I wanted babies

(17:37):
for so long. It was just for me. It was
like I'm married, when are we having babies? Yeah? That's
kind of same me too, Yeah, love me some babies.
I always wanted babies. I just didn't want to raise
a husband and babies understood so I actually would like
to say, if you feel like you could be raising
your husband and babies, this might not be the time
to have babies. Yeah, but there's a certain degree of like, Mark,

(18:03):
do you feel like your your wife is always raising you? Oh,
that's a good question. Uh, to some degree, Yes, to
some degree, I am the larger third child. Why because
guys are always a work in progress. Guys are just
kind of a lump of clay when you meet them,
and then you form them into something resembling a regular

(18:24):
human being. Why, I'm so glad you admit that I'm
I'm mostly ashamed of the person I was when she
met me, and she's like actually made me into somebody legitimate.
And sometimes it takes multiple relationships to get you to
the point of acceptability. But mostly we're just a mess.
But why is that? Though? Why are we just a mess?

(18:45):
Probably because we're overly coddled to buy our moms is
a straight and I am here for it. So what
is the best piece of advice then? For for like,
you know moms that have boys, like, for what what
do we do that would help coddle them? Um? I
always have been shocked as an adult to realize that
I'm not perfect because I was told that was perfect

(19:07):
my entire life. But they are. That's the problem, that's
the problems. And I'm still told that by my mother.
But now I rolled my eyes at it. We're twenty
years ago. I was like, yes, I am, that's true.
So it's and then his jarring realize, oh no, I'm not.
So I would lay off the year perfect thing. I
would try to treat them the same as much as

(19:27):
you can, because my sister's got issues with that and
you don't want that. So that's my advice. Someone asked
you in these questions for Mark, are you the same
Mark that's on Temptation Island? No? I wish Mark Wallburg
hosts Temptation Island. They think you're Mark Walver. Wow, he's
got out a number of these podcasts. He's on scrubbing in.

(19:47):
I think he was almost famous. Help Mark l Wallberg,
not Mark Wallberg Market. I was like, why haven't we
not got Markie Markerg? I was like, I am texting
Amy or right now? Mark, that's interesting. Another one for
for you, Mark. From a man's point of view, do
men really appreciate the lovey dovey type women I think

(20:10):
it depends on the guy, depends on the person. I do,
but not everybody does. I like a cuddle. I like
that sort of thing. But also my wife not a
big cuddler, So I think maybe it's because it doesn't happen. Um,
So I think it depends on the guy. Because maybe
my wife was super cuddly. I might be a little
bit more resistant to it. I don't know. Yeah, And
Katherine's like pointing at her, Yep, that's our relationship. You're

(20:31):
super cudly. I'm not. But my husband's like that. But
I always wonder if I were super cudly, would he
so much? That's I feel like you should test the theory.
She doesn't like shame. She was like, nah, actually that's
all right. I'm good. I'm good. No, I mean I
kind of have tested it before. And he is less like, yeah,

(20:54):
it's it's like a clinical term or a clinical thing,
isn't it like an ancient pursuer or something. Yeah. Here's
the thing with that though, is when I made it
because I know that Mike doesn't love that touchy all
the time, because I I do. My love language is
like I love p d A and just like I'm

(21:15):
here for the love love. But I I did the
test to see if he would like give, you know,
do it more, or if if I like laid off.
But there really wasn't any difference. It just for me
made me feel like I wasn't being myself. You felt needy.
I was trying not to be needy. Oh so for

(21:35):
a full week, I like not not even stuff d
like I wonder, No, I don't hate to be sound
like a test, but like I just was, I just
for a week was like, Okay, I'm not going to
be super affectionate. I'm still gonna be me but not
but cut that part out. When I'm super affectionate, I
get met with super affectionate, I'm the cactus. He's afraid. Really,

(21:57):
what do you mean? I'm so independent? So he's just like,
it's a good time to hug you or should I really? Yeah,
but I'm so love you with the kids and like
with you guys, I mean, I hope you probab like
that I'm so independent. I'm not. I love you with
my kids. Yeah, my friends depends. I tried and hold
her hand and she like, I mean I still hold it,

(22:17):
but um sorry. One of the questions I just got
was are you ticklish? That's very interesting as relevant to
really going to do about Someone asked, how do you
deal with the anger of infertility and not being able
to have babies? Would you like to start with that, Christion? Um, Well,

(22:40):
we I always I carry a bit of guilt at
how easily we get pregnant UM, because I have a
lot of friends that have dealt with infertility. UM. But
we didn't always keep the babies, so we lost one
between our kids, and that was rather devastating. UM for
a long time. That's actually when you and I got
to me in my brain. That's when you and I

(23:01):
got close because you were my first call when I
pulled out the parking lot and I was like, I
don't know how to lose a baby. Um. What do
you do with the anger? Though? UM? Because I think
that pieces I wasn't actually angry as much as I
was sad. It didn't go to anger to me until
other people were insensitive to it. That's when I got angry,

(23:24):
Like just dumb comments just like, um, like do get
annoying people like well at least you know, yeah, just anything.
I just was like, until you've walked it you just
don't know, you really don't, so best just to say
I'm sorry that you're going through that. Yeah, I mean
anger is probably because there's some deep healing that needs

(23:44):
to be done. Um. But again, like, I don't feel
like i'm even fair. It's not fair for me to
even speak on that because we were able to to
have babies, three pregnancies, two babies. Do you usually go
to sadness? M hm? Where do you usually go when
you're when you're upset? I'm not upset, but I mean

(24:06):
when you when you start to feel something like what
is your first feeling? That's a good question. I mean,
I've never experienced something as I'm not even talking with
in it, just like any arguments with with your husband.
I think I start out angry, but I cry when
I'm angry means I'm sad, which I don't think. I

(24:27):
really just think I'm so angry. I cry for whatever reason.
But I usually start out angry and then go to
a sad place, I guess, but I start out with anger,
So I mean, I don't know in that position, if
I would have gone, you know, to anger first or sadness,
I don't know. Yeah, yeah, I'm not been in your shoes,
so I know I was just when you. When I
was reading that, I was just like, how anger? Because

(24:49):
I think it depends on the situation, But like I
know when I lost it was I I go anger first.
So I'm always just like, how do you not go
angry first? Because I I like, I want to do
that more in my life, not go angry first. I'd
like to go angry first a little more. So maybe
you can help each other. No, no, no, no, no no,
I think it's better not because underneath the anger is

(25:10):
just hurt, in pain and sat I just get straight
to that. I guess to skip that and go straight
to devastated. So that's the good news. Guys. Let's take
a break. So update on the diapers. I am keeping

(25:37):
Jolie in pull ups at night because let me say this,
just to recap on the Joe Frost thing, she came
out of a room at least thirty times. I was
texting you girls like I'm about to lose my mind,
but I'm doing what she said, and I had the
thing off too, So during all of that she then
peas herself and it's like ten o'clock and night I'm

(25:58):
just like I and not handle this. So I put
a pull up on her, and but ever since then
she has not got out of her bed. So for me,
I'm like, let's just do one thing at one time.
When at a time, I'm like, I'm not pulling two
things off at once. But she has not gotten out
of her bed. I'm so happy. I mean, did a

(26:20):
great job. It was from seven o'clock to ten o'clock
at night. I need bed. Yeah. And then I'm like,
I'm like, like, I would do it five times, and
I say, Mike, I'm about to lose it, like like
you know, pass out like whatever, like high five, tap out,
and and then he would do it and he's like,
I'm about to lose it. I was like, just don't

(26:40):
he's he's he started to have He's like, Jolie stop.
I'm like, no, no, no, no, don't give her any satisfaction,
pick her up, put her back in bed. Yeah. So
was it just one night? Then one night she said
hours say if you listen for three hours, worth it.
It's worth it. And now it is feel really bad

(27:01):
about giving a shame about the pull ups when you
said and then she paid everything. Oh god, I take
it back. I'm sorry she paid hers. How is that
love doing the okay, so bless this little one. Uh Sunday,
I was like, okay, so no pull ups. I waited
till I had reinforcements at home, had data, and I

(27:21):
was like, all right, it's no pull up Sunday. And
this is how it goes. So pull ups and removed
out of the bathroom and at ten am she starts
holding her little booty outside of her little big girl
panties and she said, oh, I really got a poop.
I just need to pull up. And this went on
all day and I just kept saying encouraging, like we
can go to the potty at any time. Let me
know when you're ready to go to the potty. So

(27:42):
she's scared of it hitting the water. This is early
on traumatic and Air quotes experience for her when she
started peeing on the potty. Anyways, we make it through Sunday.
She does not have to she will not poop, so
she's just holding it all day. Monday morning, here we
go to swim and she's in the weed, this little
ballerina one piece and she's a swim and I'm like, great,

(28:05):
put her in swim with her little instructor, and I
hit the treadmill for a minute and then I get
the call, Love really needs to go bathroom, she needs
to get I get her out of the pool, and
she's walking over to me and she's like just weeping.
I'm afraid. I'm afraid I've already pooped in my in
my in my swimsuit. I'm afraid there's poop in my swimsuit.

(28:25):
And I'm like, bless your heart. So I thank god
there was a ruffle kind of hit. Any disaster we
had as we trotted with the bathroom very dramatic, but
I did. I just told her, I said, you know,
honestly happens. Maybe that's maybe a mom came up with that, um,
but I was like, you know what, Love, this happens.
And we went to the restroom. I did make her
clean it up, which is a big step because like

(28:48):
she's just disgusted with poopment in general, like she's such
a capricorn. So we I had her up. We just
kind of cleaned it up. She hasn't pooped since that
she did one time. Um. She does sleep in a
pull up overnight still, which I have no problem with. That.
She said, I just to do that because Jolie has

(29:09):
been potty trained since she was uh two and a
half yea for two, she really rocked in so but
the nighttime, like I'm not getting up in the middle
of night to potty train, Like I'm just not doing it.
And I just think that if they're dry for a
certain amount of time, that's when I always took them away.
That was going to be my strategy, Like we're always

(29:29):
in them until they are dry, and then we just
took them she got up in the morning. But I
mean there's some people that are in elementary school that
are still wearing them at night and they're not dry. Look,
men still short their pants. So she does happen until
we meet them and to stop doing that. I do
see skid marks underwear, let me tell you, honestly, though,

(29:52):
I feel like it's a childhood trauma, like from seeing
like dad's kid marks. You know, It's like I always
just thought men pooped in their pants. All right. Tracy Cross,
you know Tracy cross link dot com and her podcast
Dealing with an Apple Podcast. He's on the phone. Oh yeah, Tracy, Hello,
thank you for breaking up our conversation. We were just

(30:12):
having super appreciate it. Um, you are a behavioral I
can even say that word behavior, Oh my god, behavioral.
How is that bad that I can't say that word.
She'll train you behavior. It's multi syllable, so it's fine.
Your relationship expert and podcast host, Um, you specialize in

(30:34):
treating individuals with unhealthy dating and relationship patterns. Where have
you been? Where? Where are you in my twenties? Is
all I have to say. I see about twenty years
later where you have been? I got it? I understand. Um.
What's the biggest pattern that you've seen to be the
biggest problem. Well, there's a couple of them, but the

(30:55):
biggest one is people are not authentic. And I know
that's a really general stay eatment, But with not being
authentic comes secrets, becomes a problem with actually being emotionally
intimate with another person, because if you're not being yourself,
who are you being? And you're not attracting them to you,
You're attracting them to someone that you're you have a

(31:16):
facade for so Um, but that's the biggest one. Next
to people not staying in reality. A lot of people
get into fantasy, like on the first day Oh, this
is fun, this person is perfect, or whatever idea they're
coming up with, and they start getting ahead and thinking about,
oh wow, I want to introduce he or sheet to
my parents, and then they're already way to hell out

(31:39):
of the first state and into fantasy. So it's always
about staying in reality and being yourself, Like, those are
the two biggest things. What about because I feel like
in that moment, it is all perfect because it is
so new, Like staying in that reality where it's like
nothing has been tampered or um broken or lost or beginning,

(32:01):
you know, because beginning the sweet beginning. So isn't that
still kind of a reality staying in that moment? He
was like, well, Nicholas spark. Well, it's great to have
a spark, right, But it's when you get carried away
with the spark, because then that's how you develop expectations

(32:24):
and you're wanting those expectations to remain. And what you're
doing is, first of all, you don't really know the person, right,
It's it's what you're picking up from what they're doing,
and you're thinking, oh, that hits my checklist. That sounds good,
that sounds good, that sounds good. But the reality of
the person and getting to know them and living with them,

(32:45):
not literally living with them, but living with them as
far as getting to know them and dating them and
so on and so forth, you find that, oh, well,
my expectations are really out of wack compared to who
the person really is. So you know, at some point
you're to have to deal with the disappointment of that.
So I know you have that ten week boot camp.
Um it helps people, you know with the dysfunctional yo

(33:08):
yo daters, um having you know, problems moving on from
past relationship. What why do you think people hang onto
relationships that are not serving them? Well, there's a couple
of reasons, but one of the biggest ones is to
do with insecure attachment. So a lot of people who

(33:29):
I don't know, how much do your listeners know about that? Uh,
we talked about our relationships a lot. So can you
tell us a little bit more about that? Sure? Sure? Um?
So with insecure attachment, basically, as a child, you either
securely attached to your parents or you're insecurely attached to
your parents meeting emotionally. So there were experiments that were

(33:51):
done in the early seventies UM by a psychologist named
Mary Ainsworth, and it was called the Strange experiment, and
so it's where a parent would leave a child and
they would judge the child's reaction to the parent leaving.
So a lot of us who didn't necessarily emotionally bond
with our parents in a way where there is emotional

(34:12):
intimacy tend to come at relationships in a completely different
way than somebody who was securely attached to a parent. So,
as an example, let's say that you had a parent
who wasn't around very much, and so you would try
to be perfect or try to please them to get
their attention, and maybe you still didn't really get their

(34:33):
attention because they'd come home and they'd be preoccupied. So
you would be looking for somebody who is preoccupied. And
this is not a conscious thought, by the way, this
is totally subconscious autopilot. Okay, I'm looking for somebody who's
not really going to give me that attention. And then
the way I think I get love is by people
pleasing or trying to be perfect, which is also why

(34:55):
people have trouble being authentic when they first start dating.
I sorry, I just have to say, the first of all,
there's a lot of head shaking going on in this room,
a lot of non verbal amens happening over here. Also,
I've never heard it, all the years of therapy and

(35:17):
you know, having experts come on, I've never heard it
said quite that way. And I feel like, some somehow
that just kind of clicked because I know, I know,
like you know, all of us have you know, experiences
with our upbringing, and I've always been able to relate.
Oh that's probably why I do that. But with how
you phrased it, can you say that word again that? Yeah,

(35:41):
that's a I love how you put that, because that
just was like, oh, that's one thousand percent what it is.
Was the most groundbreaking moment I've been non therapy therapy
in my entire life. I could have used you two
marriages ago. Where have you been? Well, I had I
had to learn this in between my first and second marriage.

(36:02):
So yeah, and a lot of it was my own journey.
I mean, I trained as a coach, and I went
to school and got my degree in psychology. But yeah,
none of this really prepared me for why I felt
the way I did and the struggles I had in
dating relationships, being a single mom. All that stuff. I mean,
that was my title. And I really didn't even understand myself,

(36:26):
Like I didn't understand why am I picking these people?
Why am I doing this? Why can't I be real?
What is so hard about asking somebody a question? Well,
if you're afraid they're going to abandon you or think
something's wrong, then you're not going to ask the questions, right, Yeah,
And you're also yeah, one thousand percent. This is so crazy,
I feel like because I was just having it so simplified,

(36:47):
and I was just having this conversation. I was telling
Cat about it the other day in the car. I
was like, I know that we all know that like
my dad and you know those I'm not. I will
never blame my dad because I know that he was
brought up a certain way which led him to you know,
be a parent, a certa and way to me. But
you know, I have learned that some ways of his
um you know, of our of my upbringing was based

(37:08):
on how you know, he handled the divorce and how
he left and had the affairs, and so that then
made me go off to do you know, X, Y
and Z. But so I've always known that my dad's
like affected my relationships because of the things that happened,
but I've never My therapist was trying to tell me
the other day where it's just like you've stayed in

(37:30):
certain things because you're or you've tried to be so
perfect because you're so afraid of that abandonment. But what
you just said makes it even clarifies it even more
to me. With the that insecure attachment. Until I just
skipped I was gonna say, until I discovered it, I
really had no clue. And then here's this was a kicker. Okay,

(37:53):
So there's different labels under insecure attachment. I happened to
fall under anxious of avoidance. Okay, so what the hell
is that? Right? So anxious meaning I would have and
I would get into these relationships with people like the
Yo yo ones and where I call it breadcrumbing, right
where you hit it off at first and you think

(38:14):
everything's great and then making promises to you and then
all of a sudden they do kind of like the
fade out, and then they show back up, right but
you're thinking, oh my god, they're gone, I've ruined this
relationship whatever, and they show back up and you're back
in it, and this can go on for years, right,
and so I kept going, what the heck is my problem?
But I had such tremendous anxiety during it, and then

(38:38):
this is this is where I'm coming in with the avoidance.
So then he would kind of change and want to
get closer, and I became avoidant. Oh wait a minute,
I don't have time to see you. I don't want
to talk to you. I'm going to ignore you. I mean.
So I was both sides of the coin, and a
lot of people I help are both sides of the
coin as well, going between idy and avoiding and meeting

(39:02):
people who would be healthy and that would give you
anxiety like, oh my god, I'm feeling engulfed. Oh god,
I get away from me. You know, I don't want
anything to do with you. So yeah, but why is
that them? Because I know with relationships that you know,
the guys that actually might have been the best for you,
you don't want because it's that they're too nice, or

(39:25):
I feel too smothered, or you know, they don't have
that bad boy, but you know that they'd probably be
a great husband and they would never hurt you. Why
there's there's there's okay, So there's like there are so
many reasons why. So first of all, remember the subconscious
wiring here, right, So if you don't have to work hard, like,

(39:47):
you don't have to be perfect, you don't have to
be a people pleaser, you don't know what the heck
to do with yourself, so oh, I gotta be me,
And so you're not you're not performing the drama. We
are used to have drama because that is drama, and
drama doesn't necessarily mean yelling and screaming. Drama means these
heightened emotions, right of am I gonna have my dad

(40:10):
hugged me today? Or my dad going to stop watching
TV and actually pay attention to me? You know? Is
my dad going to critique me? Whatever? So as an adult,
we are still caught up in those patterns. And when
you meet somebody who's open and available and you don't
have to dance around like that, it feels like it's

(40:31):
boring for one, uh, I mean that's when you're coming
out of this, right, you can feel like it this
is boring, there's no spark. But the spark we're looking
for is that intensity that makes us actually feel our feelings.
Because what we really don't realize through all of this
with the insecure attachment is that we're really pretty numb
to our own feelings. Like we know our reactions, right,

(40:52):
we know for mad, sad, whatever, but we don't know
the deeper feelings because we're cut off from them. And
so you meet somebody and you have that chemistry and
it's all that excitement and they're a bad boy, then
it's that constant drama. It's like watching a movie, right,
and you're just going along with the plot. But when
you meet somebody and it's not that way, it's almost

(41:13):
like you really just don't know what to do with yourself.
So that's why to me it was really hard, Like
I wanted to get in a healthy relationship and so
I really had to go, Okay, trace, you've got to
deal with all this intensity. You've got to deal with
the fact that you don't know how you feel on
a deeper level and what drives you to actually be
with people who can't give you what you want. So

(41:36):
there's a lot there. I mean, I could go on
and on and on for hours probably about just that question.
If you're in the relationship though, you know, for the
for the married ones out there that have the pattern
of this it can be um such heightened emotions, and
you're also portraying that they need to be perfect, but
they're not perfect. It's like, how do you how do
you walk through that season of life to get to

(41:59):
a healthier thought. So you have to make a decision
to want to be a good partner, to have a
healthy relationship, regardless of your partner, okay, because you can't
control another person, and a lot of us put well,
I'm going to change or I'm going to grow, but
we put that on the other person to have to
do it with us. It's a decision that you want

(42:21):
to make to have a sense of well being, right,
And so what you have to do is, first of all,
you've got to look at how much energy physical and
emotional energy goes out of my body trying to control
or maintain this relationship so that it's at least familiar
to me. You know what. A lot of times we
want change, but at the same time we want to

(42:42):
keep it familiar. So first of all, you've got to
realize what are the things that I am doing to
stay stuck in this place with this person emotionally, and
then you have to stop doing those things. As an example, again,
you know, I'm using people pleasing and perfectionism, but there's
also problem solving. How often in your relationship that doesn't

(43:03):
feel great and you're committed to are you looking for problems?
Is your focus on all the problems? Why is it
on all the problems? Well, that's a distraction from intimacy.
You can't be intimate with someone if you're always focusing on, well,
what's wrong, and then something gets solved, and then you're
focusing on the next problem. So there's all sorts of things.
We tend to personalize our mates, We tend to assume

(43:26):
a lot about our mates, and it's to step out
of that and to really become emotionally present to what
is happening when you do what you do. This is
hard because most of the time we are on autopilot
the day. We're just repeating the same patterns, repeating the
same things. And so to actually develop some awareness about

(43:47):
how you even interact in your relationship and you stop
blaming me out a person for how they are. You
can make a big change right there just by taking
responsibility and going, oh, you know what, I didn't realize
that I do that, that I keep finding problems with
my mate, right, I mean how often do we do that? Yeah? Often?

(44:09):
But what if there are problems now and that's it,
So that would be different. You know, somebody has big
problems in their relationship, Okay, there is total dysfunction. They
have to look at why they're staying there. A lot
of times we stay out of fear. Um. Sometimes we'll say, oh,
it's the money, it's the kids, But really it's a fear.

(44:31):
It's a fear of ending up alone. It's a fear
because I don't trust myself to make the right decision.
What if I leave and it was the wrong decision. Um,
So it's just easier to blame your mate for all
their faults and everything wrong with them and never look
at yourself. You still have to take yourself in hand
and go what am I doing? I am half of

(44:51):
the relationship, so I must be doing something. But it's
to take yourself, you know, to take yourself in hand
and start making the changes inside of you. You know,
what do you resist in the relationship? Meaning what are
you fighting against and struggling against all the time that
never changes? Do you think changes? Change is possible? I've

(45:15):
seen it. I mean I've been doing this for twelve years,
and I have seen people change their relationships for the better,
but it usually takes both of them wanting that. What
I often find instead is that when somebody starts working
on themselves and they're getting to a better place, that
there's a distance that even grows more in the relationship.

(45:36):
Now that might spur the other person who's not doing
anything about themselves to start doing something. But in all honesty,
you really want someone that's motivated to want to feel
better and have their own sense of well being rather
than a fear of losing you. Because we're talking about love,
and for some reason it seems really romantic when we're

(45:58):
making somebody fear losing us, but that it's not really romantic.
That's about love. So as you start to love yourself
more and your mate decides to cool, you, guys might
work it out. If you're the only one doing it,
it's probably going to be where you work yourself out
of the relationship over time. How do you not put
I totally agree with you on that, Um, how do

(46:18):
you not put? How do I say this? Where? UM?
I know it's such a codependent way of thinking, but
sometimes in a lot of relationships I've been and even
you know, in my relationship with my husband, I'll say, um,
well you don't make me happy, or this doesn't this
doesn't make me happy. It's so it's like I'm almost
is that Is that just codependency because of course he

(46:40):
can't make me happy or though his actions might not
make me happy, but I still I still am in
control of that, aren't I Yeah, you are in control
of that because if you think about it. Okay, and
this is a little off topic, but it's an example.
So let's say that you want to throw somebody a
surprise party, Okay, and the reason you're doing it, of course,

(47:03):
you want to do something nice for your friend, let's say,
but if you don't have any joy in the process
of putting the surprise party together, then you're missing the boat,
especially if your friend has a bad reaction is like
I don't like surprise parties. Why did you do the
surprise party for me? Right? So, here you are trying
to do something you think is going to make somebody happy,
and they're like, this doesn't make me happy. This really

(47:26):
is embarrassing. I'm so embarrassed. So it's the same thing
in our relationships where we tend to want to please
the other person, like my husband does things to please me,
and even if I'm in a crappy mood or let's
say I'm not happy in the moment, I do appreciate it,
but I know he can't make me happy and that's
up to me. And actually, actually, in a relationship, it's

(47:51):
such a great opportunity to work on yourself because you recognize, oh,
my feelings aren't going to change unless I do something
about it. So it always comes back to you. And
if you have a partner like my partner, I feel
he's all about growing himself and I'm about growing myself.
So it works really well. I don't blame him for things.

(48:12):
I don't put things on him because I know in
the end, I'm still going to feel the same way.
I'm still going to feel like I feel whenever that is,
you know, like right now, tomorrow, It's still gonna be
my feelings. Right, Okay, I have a question. I'm actually
this is actually asking for a friend, not a friend
in the room. But I have a girlfriend who is

(48:34):
twice divorced and has two little kids, and she stopped
talking about me. This is actually asking for a friend.
So the authenticity we talked that you talked about, like
at the very beginning of the relationship, she struggles sometimes
with when to like out herself as a twice divorced mother,

(48:56):
you know, like obviously she talks about her kids kind
of like straight out of the gate, but when it
comes to being married twice, I know there's some shame
attached to that for her a little bit. And then
when she tries to date, she's like, Okay, at what
point do I say, like, you know, to a lot
of men, that feels like, you know, a girl's crazy,
so and she's not. She's actually a beautiful human being.

(49:18):
She just has seen a lot more in men than
they even solve themselves. Kind of um, But I'm wondering
what your advice would be for her when she's dating,
and when is maybe an appropriate time to say that,
or maybe it's not their business, or what is your
I really love you already and you've really cracked a
lot of things for me, So okay, So of course

(49:40):
this is gonna sound crazy, But first of all, she
has to own the fact that she's been married twice.
You've got to own it. You gotta say you know
what this is. This is what's happened, and I got
to own it, and I've got to feel okay about
it first. So if you feel okay about something first,
you don't really care when you tell somebody. I would

(50:01):
tell somebody right up front. Why because I don't want
to go down the path of okay, Well, maybe he'll
like me enough and then I can tell him at
that point. But you're not the booby prize. You're still
a prize. But if you don't feel like you're the
prize and that somebody's taking you on, like, oh, you've
been married twice, okay, fine, I'll take you. You know
you're damaged goods or whatever it is that you've attached

(50:23):
to the whole idea of being married twice. But it's
really about saying, screw it, I've been married twice. Oh well,
you know s happens. Things happen in life, and here
I am. I own it. I take responsibility for what's
happened in my life. And when you come across like
your own heroin, then it's really about the guy who's

(50:43):
going to have the confidence and that's what you want anyway,
Like you don't want to bamboozle somebody into being with
you because they're deciding, okay, even married twice, I'll take
you because of that. And you're the Booby prize. You know.
You want someone who thinks that you're awesome no matter what.
And the right guy and not that there's just one
white guy, by the way, but the right guy or

(51:04):
a guy that's confident enough, you're gonna have a great
relationship with. You're gonna have a relationship with someone who's
actually a partner rather than somebody who feels like they
got the leftovers, you know, like the day old bread
or something. Yeah. I like that. She's she's like a
fiercely independent I mean, she obviously isn't therapy. She's so
strong and so good. There's been a couple of times
where she's kind of immediately said those things, and I

(51:26):
think she felt the relief of the ownership of it,
you know, just being like this is it? Because she
is so amazing, Like i'd marry her. You know, she's
a good she's a really really great check. She's a catch.
So I just know she would appreciate that insight a lot.
What is you not to get to personal in your life?
But what what is your biggest struggle with your husband now?

(51:50):
Not to get to personally take us into your bedroom.
Oh my god. I mean, well, if you listen to
my podcast, you would know that there's nothing really that
I don't hold back from. Um, I would say, as
far as my husband goes, I don't know. I think
my biggest struggle with myself when it comes to my
husband is more about my own avoidancy. Right, So, like

(52:14):
I said, I was an anxious avoidance and so there's
times where all fine, Like I also can be kind
of a workaholic. Let's say where I start putting up
walls and I'll realize it and I'll go, okay, Trace,
this is how you used to do relationships, right, You
just get all in your head and thinking about work
or thinking about something and be totally focused and checked

(52:35):
out my surroundings and the fact that I have a relationship.
And so what I do now is I'll catch myself
and it will feel hard because it should feel hard,
and I'll be vulnerable and I will tell him. I
always tell on myself, you know what, this is what
I'm doing. Or I'll just go over and I'll hug
him or crawl on top of him or whatever. You know,

(52:56):
I mean, I will get closer to him rather than
farther apart from him, and and that's great. And I
guess you know. The other struggle would be we both
can be kind of introverted, Like we're both like introvert extroverts, right,
so we can both get caught up in our things,
and he'll be quiet about stuff because he's not used

(53:16):
to having somebody who wants to hear about him, and
I always want to hear about him. So I would
say for him, it's opening up more, even though he's
not really trying to hide it. It's just like these
old patterns that we've had from past relationships they think
are the things that sometimes get in the way. But
we really do have good communications so that helps. And

(53:38):
if we trigger each other right where I'll say something
and he gets upset, we're pretty good about being in
reality and going wolla, wait a minute, Okay, that's my stuff,
and I need to I need to work on that.
I need to figure out why I'm triggered or why
I want to strangle you right now. I got to
figure that out, because it really doesn't have anything to
do at the moment. Because I can tell as I'm

(54:00):
like totally reacting when it's not even something that would
have actually been anything to react to in the first place.
So so stuff like that, I mean, sohips aren't perfect,
then my insecure attachments, A little child is saying, wait,
so then really not our relationships are perfect? What valid?

(54:25):
Not perfect? But you know what, here's the thing. They
can be safe, so too have insecure attachment. Right, we're
looking for safety, we're looking for security, and a lot
of times we think it's if somebody you know, again,
we're doing all those things that we're used to doing
and they're reacting to it, that that makes us feel safe.
But that's temporary. Like there's a real feeling of safety

(54:47):
when you've done the inner work and then you have
somebody who's consistent, who's stable, where your relationship excuse me,
your relationship keeps progressing. You know, there's growth, there's communication
you have, there's is working, and it just makes such
a difference. And the thing with the inner child, you
know that little kid, is that you start to love

(55:10):
her in a different way. Like I look at it
as though there are always things that I can be
aware of, and one of them is when I disconnect
from my own feelings. When you do that, you disconnect
from your inner child. When you are connected and you're
really relaxed in that and you're feeling all of your feelings,
you start to realize that whether it's you as a

(55:33):
little kid or you as an adult, you actually feel
really good. And that means in almost any situation, and
that sort of answers that need that the inner child has, well,
I can get better, it can be resolved. It really can.

(55:54):
Like I read that book Attached. I don't know how
many years ago it was, and I and that's like
the seminal book about attachment. And right now I have
a literary agent who's shopping my book on attachment. So anyways,
this book says that people like me who are anxious avoidant,
that there's no way we're ever going to feel better.

(56:15):
The only way we'll feel better is if we find
a partner to make us feel better. And it kind
of pissed me off when I read that. I thought,
you know what, that's b s because I want to
feel good whether I'm in a relationship or not. So
the you know, the the insecure attachment can absolutely go away.
It can absolutely be taken care of. It's conditioning, it's
not who you really are. That's good. Do you do

(56:40):
private sessions? We got three people up for you. Do
you do sessions? What are you doing for the next
three hours? Sessions? Yeah? Okay, amazing. So you your podcast
is deal with on Apple podcast. Everyone listened to her

(57:02):
because she's incredible. Um, and apparently you can do private
sessions and I will be going on her website. We
will put it on the bio. Thank you so much,
Tracy for just enlightening this entire room and giving us
some some awesome knowledge. We really appreciate it. Thank you,
thank you, thank you for having me. I love talking
about this. So I'll talk to you soon. I'll be

(57:25):
happy with me. And oh you are welcome. All right
you guys, bye bye bye. So we're all best friends
with Tracy. I mean, she's great. I just want to

(57:47):
know more about that. She's a secure something about the
way she said it was so I mean, that was
just it blew everything out of the water. We're all like,
it was so clear to me. Yeah, and it's funny
because I am we're just talking about this. Yeah, well
I was telling Katherine about it, but how she just said.
It just made that even simpler, Like she explained, even

(58:10):
it made so much sense to me. Here's the thing
that can I say this real fast? It gives me
so much anxiety. Why because it just makes me think
about my kids. Yeah, that's all I can think about
when I but because it affects me. But what I
hear in that is secure attachment and help make a
healthy adult. Right, But how do you know? So they

(58:30):
just have to know that they're safe with us and
that we love them, and we talk about things and
we sort three things. It doesn't have to be perfect,
like abandonment, like even if you parents aren't together, like
my dad could have love you dad, but like there
could have been a different way to not make me
feel abandoned, which then has my So my my insecure

(58:52):
attachment is all about I need to feel safe in
a relationship. And what doesn't either flee or I cling tighter. Right,
So that's you know. But so then okay, now that
we have this knowledge, which I don't think our parents
really had because I fast to therapy. Yeah, I mean
I had my issues with my mom too, and I
don't now as an adult, I don't think it was purposeful.

(59:14):
I don't, she you know, but that's what scares me,
Like we're a but I don't, but I don't think
that parents are. Then we're that in touch with how
this would affect us or or you know, again like
my none of I knew, no new, no one that
went to therapy. That's true. And I do think we're
also tuned into like our kids and our I mean,
I know the way you guys mother and it's like

(59:36):
we all three have different styles of mothering, but at
the core of it is always wanting our little ones
to feel heard and loved and safe. And I think
that neat or that like, well, I think what's scared
is like we're in a business where it's constant and
so you're constantly working, whereas like my mom worked all
the time she was out of the house, you know,
and when she was home, but she wasn't present. But

(59:58):
she wasn't present when she was home. But it's like
finding that balance and how to make sure you're present
is still getting you know, but still working and still
you know, it's just all the all the things. No,
that's tough, and then like you said, we will mess
them up somehow because it can be. I tell Jolie
probably too. I love you, I love you, I love you,
I love you like every two freaking seconds. So if
I keep because I'm wanting that love, that's my own issues.

(01:00:20):
But I'm portraying that on her to get that love.
So she's probably going to have maybe maybe I'm screwing
her up that way. I definitely love is definitely going
to therapy for opposite reasons I did. Their application of
my feelings on this poor thirty pounder is like, I
can't keep my mother happy, and she's like, why you
need more validation? Okay, much too much, not to put

(01:00:43):
the negative part, but no, but I mean that's a
real reality, and I think that's but again, we're conscious
of that more. We're more like Chris, and like you said,
we're more in tune to ways to be careful of
maybe not screwing them out to a t which I
think is half the work. Just want what we need

(01:01:05):
to do in the next thirty minutes when we get
back on our private session. Okay, let's read an email
before we say good Bude, I can't mom to any
from Alicia. Help. I'm desperate. My husband and I have
had a lot of trust issues lately, and we've been
trying to work through them. A couple of months ago,

(01:01:26):
I found cocaine in his wallet. He said it was
a friend's, and I chose to believe him until I
found some again later. He said he was holding it
for his friend who was hiding it from his wife.
He said the friend had has done it around him,
but he hasn't done it himself. He knows I would

(01:01:47):
not be okay, as we have three children. Well now,
he's gotten smarter about where he hides it, and I
found four bags of it in his car. He may
be selling it, but I also think he's doing it
since addition to the bags of coke, I found a
folded picture frame and inside, Oh damn, inside was a
rolled up bill with coke clearly on it and a

(01:02:08):
credit card. I haven't confronted him because I know he'll
I again. I'm confused and I love him, but I
worry if I can afford to keep our homes since
we filed bankruptcy a few months ago. Dank um, So
I'm sorry you're going through this. It's probably safe to

(01:02:30):
say from this email he's obviously not holding it for
a friend. It is his way. Yeah, and he might
maybe he's selling it. I don't know, but it's it's
his cocaine. Whether he's I don't think he's just holding
it for a friend. That's like, hey, dude, like my
wife doesn't want this in the house, like there's high

(01:02:51):
school anymore, So holding it for a friend doesn't work.
That's like what you say when you're sixteen to get busted.
So I need him to get a little bit yeah, um,
a little or ship either way with me. I the bankrupts,
I mean because on the other side is like you know,
is he may be selling it because they're going through
some financial problems right now. Doesn't make it okay at all.

(01:03:12):
Does not make it okay, especially with them having three kids.
But she needs to know. Yeah, obviously though in my opinion,
I one thousand percent that it is his. That's what
I think. I think if he says comes up, then
a lie, that's just that's for example, let me just

(01:03:33):
I was dating someone because I just I have friends
that have done cocaine. I've never touched cocaine. I've never
touched a drug in my life. I haven't done it. Um,
but I remember I was dating a guy, and he
would you know. He's like, I don't do cocaine, and
I was like, okay. I was like, well at that time,
I was like, if you do, will you just tell
me because I just for something, I just I just
don't know, like and you know what I'm kind of

(01:03:55):
walking into. And he's like, yeah, absolutely, He's like, but
I don't do it. I'm like, okay. So I remember
I walked down the steps and I hear him snorting
in the bathroom and I walk in and I'm and
I clearly saw him snore a line of cocaine and
I go, what are you doing? And he goes, I'm

(01:04:15):
using Afron and I'm like, I just saw you snort
cocaine off the countertop, Like what do you mean? And
then but then he made me believe that it was
the Affron and that that's like you said, it was
the addict. And finally I was just like, I can't

(01:04:35):
be in this relationship, like I even asked you to
be honest with me about it. Yeah, and so, and
to me, this feels like this this might be an
addiction because of the and I brought that example up
to say that this might be an addiction because of
the constant lying, the lying, Yeah, the lying behavior and
then not coming forward and continually finding it. So I

(01:04:59):
applaud you for not going to him yet, but I
think that you need to have a plan in place
for your kids, and a plan in place to ask
for help if there's a family member you can go
to take the kids away. Like I would not confront
him around the kids, right, we all agreed to that,
not confronting on the kids. He needs help, He needs

(01:05:20):
to go to therapy. But then it's well, it's money expensive,
his rehab it's so expensive expensive. Well, what he needs
to do first is be honest. Yeah, well that's that's
where I think he should take the kids out. Kids
have to be away, im out of this addiction, dat addiction.
Take the kids out of the house. Yeah, it seeps

(01:05:41):
into them and they take on more than they need to.
So I love the fact that she's like, I have
three kids, and that she's like kind of shielding them
already from that. Now I don't And and then I
would ask him to go get help because clearly, whether
it's in a drug addiction or whatever, like, he need
some therapy and some help, and y'all need like a

(01:06:02):
good separation because I'm not saying divorce him. But if
he's not willing to continue to get help and do
better than I don't see, then in my opinion, that's
but I do think he deserves the opportunity to try
to change. I do too, because I do believe. I
believe in change too. But if he keeps messing up,
then yeah, I just yeah, we need to be some

(01:06:25):
ownership there for sure, take the kids out, do some therapy.
Good separation, Yeah, really asked for some and we just
need to even she doesn't even really know what she's
dealing with. Yeah, it's hard. It's hard to bankrupt thing man,
that doesn't I hate to say that, but when there's
not a lot of money there, it's hard to not
a lot of money. But I mean it's expensive, but

(01:06:45):
there are some programs I think that you can get
in that. Um I think that are like you know,
state funded or something. There's got to be something out
there where he can go and get help that's not
going to cost a lot of money. Every time I've
taken a faithful step into some dark place, I always
feel like I've watched God provide for me. So I agreed.

(01:07:05):
I know that may seem like a very impossible thing
to wrap your mind around, but it's like, if you're
taking a good step to protect your children who are
also God's children, and maybe make another broken child healthy
who happens to be your husband, then I feel like
at some point someone will present themselves with for a
way to wiggle out of this, or at least start
the shift. I love that. Amen. Let's read to one

(01:07:26):
more from Misty expecting my husband are expecting our first
child together in July, as soon as we both found
out our reaction with stress and panic. We need to
get into a house, but we have no money for one.
Is it normal to not be that happy or not
happy at all that I'm actually pregnant? Our entire family stoked,
but we aren't. Any advice would be tremendously appreciated. You
do not have to live in a house to have

(01:07:47):
a baby. No, you don't. We lived in a condo, um,
Dave Ramsey says it. They actually take up the least
amount of space and all the stuff we put with
them is kind of like not real life, you know,
I just would I mean, we lived in a thousand
square feet and there was three of us and two dogs.
So I don't think you have to have a house.

(01:08:07):
There's something that we all think at first, we all
kind of panic. I think I don't. I think there
should be no sh and a panic is normal. Yeah,
because you're about to take on it's a lot of responsibility. Yeah,
I don't think, especially if you weren't prepared for it.
Even if you are prepared for you yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah.

(01:08:29):
And then not did she say not wanting it or no? No,
just I think there was a lot of projected like
qualifications that she doesn't doesn't have. But not happy, not happy.
I think she should not be putting so much because
I think that's like you have to be happy, you
should be happy. It's like, well that's what people say,
but you might not be in that moment. Like I

(01:08:51):
remember after I had Jace. I was like, was I
happier with Jolie when I was pregnant? You know? When
when I got It's like because you're you're you're trying
to compare and you're seeing what other people are doing.
It's like, just take your experience and just give yourself
some grace. It's too much pressure. Just feel the way
that you feel Wait till the baby gets here. You
were going you know you're going to feel differently once

(01:09:11):
the baby gets here. Remember that people did this like
in covered wagons. That was my go to mantra for myself, Like,
it doesn't have to be a million gadgets, a big house.
It could They really just like pajamas and their mama
for a really long time. Anyway, it's a lot of
pressure taking off me when I could simplify it, simplify
that in my brain. Alright, guys, I don't want to

(01:09:33):
come to another email, so see it next day. Anxiety
will do this again. I need you to pinky swear.
Let's bring it up. Howevery one loved this, So we're
gonna at least do at least a once a month. Um.
I will stick to that. We will try our best
to at least a once a month. Mommy sign off,

(01:09:56):
sign off, Mommy, how do I live without you? Now? That? Okay? Bye, guys,
that was fun. I love you, Thanks for having me
and mom January signing off by