Dealing with It with Tracy Crossley

Do you ever wonder why people stay in bad relationships? Have you felt unable to leave a person who you know is bad for you? Jana and her friends get some insight on insecure attachments from relationship expert Tracy Crossley. She shares some incredibly moving words about how to move on from an unhappy marriage.

Plus Jana and her friends close out #MomJanuary by sharing their best pieces of mom advice.

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See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Wind Down with Jane Kramer and Michael Coffin and I'm
her radio podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Mom January and I'm alone, not all, I'm not alone.
Easton Tory. Are you there, We're here, We're from here, Easton.
You sound rough right now, buddy.

Speaker 3 (00:23):
You know, I hear this thing about the man cold,
and I'm trying to stomp on that because I'm powering
through man and I'm getting my work done.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
I feel like we could have a whole show about
the man flu. Does that mean that you're not enjoying
some good drinks lately?

Speaker 3 (00:42):
You know, I'm still finding time to have a party.
You know, I'm feeling my wife is not sick, so
she's she's really kicking back lately.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Let me tell you, so, I've been having these Bachelor parties,
right because you know, with the whole like theme of
like Mom January. I don't know. I'm just like, this
is like let's all meet up and then watch the Bachelor.
So we've been doing that and it's been I really like,
I want to talk about the girls, but I mean,

(01:13):
I want to like keep the focus. But I I
have to tell you this is gonna sound so crazy,
but I feel like welly have my two girlfriends coming in.
They're going to be here any second. But I've been
telling a lie, oh because I know you want to
know about it.

Speaker 3 (01:30):
I like actually do.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
So like I'm because you know me, like I'm like
a red wine drinker, right, So I've been trying to
like spice things up a little bit for you know,
the the mom like Bachelor viewing or whatever. So I
don't know if anyone watches my Instagram, but I've I
posted about it probably like a month ago. It's did
you see it, toy? It's like the drink works.

Speaker 4 (01:55):
Yes, yes, I saw that because you were like you
were sitting on that by your bar tender, right, I
mean your bar, yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
Like the barer counter and so yeah, so like Catherine,
who's one of the girls sitters gonna be here because
she's always just like you only drink wine, like you know,
and whenever we go somewhere, like you're never like having
like cocktails, And I was just like, well that's changing,
because honestly, the truth is, I never know how to
make them, which is why because I'm like, it's easy
to uncork a bottle, like it's the one is done,

(02:26):
it's a one and done. But when it comes to
like a margarita or like a Moscow mule, I'm like,
I don't even know like what like liquor goes in there,
because I'm not like baked on liquor. So I've done
this thing for Drink Works and it is the most
incredible thing I've ever had. I got to feel like
I'm like doing a spot for them right right, I

(02:49):
looking online right now. I'm like no, So they come
over and I'm like, cause, I just like trying to
spice it up this month a little bit, you know,
like I've been doing like a lot of work on myself.
I'm trying to like spice up my life. And so
I'm like, you know what, I love my red wine,
but I'm gonna try something new. And so when I
had the Drink Works thing, I was like, yes, So

(03:09):
I've been making these margaritas and you guys, it's been
like my biggest lie because they're like, how do you
make this? And I'm like, well, you know, it's just
a little bit of like this and that and right
and then I think I said, like, I don't even
remember what liquor I said, But Catherine totally ousted me.
She's like, that's not in a margarita and I was like, no, Like,

(03:31):
I'm totally out. So I had to show them what
it was. But I don't know. I'm just like, God,
this is totally this is crazy. But it's almost like
you know those pods. Yeah, they send you pods of
everything that's in, so that's liquor. It has the liquor
in it, and it also has the ingredients of what
comes in like a margarita, so you don't have to
buy aMule. You don't have to buy two separate pods necessarily.

(03:52):
It's like it's all in one. It's all in one.
So literally, you put the pod in the drink works
thing and you press the thing down and outcomes a
perfectly tasting margarita. It blows my mind. And I did
it to Mike the other day too. I was like, Hey,
how do you want a mask on Mule? And he
about fell over and I was like, no, no, baby,
is seriously do you want a mask on Mule? And

(04:12):
he was just like do you even know what that is?
And I was like, I'm about to rock your world, baby.
So I went into the bar and he like, obviously
forgot that I have this amazing thing in the bar,
and so I made him a drink and he was
just like, oh, it's drink Works, and I was like, yeah, honey,
but come on, give me like credit where credit is due.
But no, it's awesome. It comes with the liquor in it,

(04:36):
the one pod, all the stuff, so it's awesome anyway.
So I just you know, if anyone's having any parties
out there, I would definitely suggest trying to get the
Drink Works.

Speaker 4 (04:45):
I mean, with all these award shows coming up, it's
literally the perfect thing because then you're not stuck behind
the bar all night long, so it's perfect. They have
like a Cosmopolitan, margarita, Sangria Moscow mule, my tie.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
I don't even know what's in my tie exactly. So
I get what you're saying.

Speaker 4 (05:01):
Why it's so easy You just put it in and
then it's perfect because then while you're judging everybody's outfits,
being like that's great, who wore.

Speaker 2 (05:07):
It best, and you're just drinking your drink.

Speaker 4 (05:10):
And I can't believe Jana just said she's moving on
from wine.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
I'm not moving on. I'm just now expanding because now
I don't have to. I don't need to know what's
in it because it's pre made for me. So thank you.
So I just like this is this is like my
shout out to Drink Works to say thank you for
not only you know, making super Bowl and everything looking
great soon. I appreciate you. Yeah, I was gonna ask you.

Speaker 4 (05:34):
Also, nothing's worse than a strong drink. You know when
people don't have the portions correct?

Speaker 2 (05:39):
Do you feel like fi thousand percent?

Speaker 1 (05:41):
Do you feel like it's perfect?

Speaker 2 (05:43):
I'm not the kidding with you, Tori. It's the it's
the coolest thing ever. I mean, it's it's like a
cure rig but with the pod, it's just it's it
has everything measured in there. It's fantastic, I know. So
just give it a ring. All you have to do
is be red carpet ready the Drink Works Home bar
By Kerri. Get one now on drinkworks dot com and

(06:04):
please enjoy responsibly. Oh my ladies are walking in perfect timing.
I feel like it's the end of an era and
it's really making me sad. I have closure issues to
see end. Well, Mom, January is coming to an end.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
Can't we just keep going?

Speaker 2 (06:21):
Is this the launch of Mom February.

Speaker 1 (06:24):
Did we just make something?

Speaker 2 (06:25):
I don't want to break up you guys.

Speaker 5 (06:26):
I was driving in today and I was like, I
really just don't want this to be over.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
It's been really therapeutic.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
I had like the.

Speaker 5 (06:32):
Laguna Beach theme song playing in my head. It was
like very sad and graduation feeling.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
What was the theme song?

Speaker 5 (06:39):
I'm not a singer. There's only one of those in
this room. Don't make me do it, and it's Easton.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
Crickets.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
I'm pheready go. No, it's funny because I was I
think we should do a segment at least once a month.
I agree. I don't want to break up with you guys.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
So yeah, no, this, yeah, yeah, this is.

Speaker 2 (07:06):
How it went in high school too.

Speaker 5 (07:07):
We took a break before we broke up because I
have like issues separating from people.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
That's really funny. I'm going to go back to that.
But my therapist, so we've just been doing the month
of January besides you know Mom, you know Mom month
has been just like real deep in like therapy, and
so I probably didn't even know if I should say this,
but my therapist, you know, we're doing just kind of
all different kinds of work and like that one letter

(07:31):
that she made me write. But then she emailed me
today and was just like, hey, for our session tomorrow,
I'd like it if you brought a picture of your
father and then other men that you've been in relationships with.
I was like, it was like, define relationship. I was like,
because we're gonna have a rolodex here, like what do
you what are you thinking? So she's just like, she's like,

(07:51):
you're so funny. She's like, no, just men that have
impacted your life. And I was like, oh, this is good.
What is just second through the home run? That are
we talking like high school sweetheart to like you know
the you know? But she said here right, let me
just pull up the email because she was very specific
about it.

Speaker 5 (08:08):
Man, we just went through this last night. I had
a girlfriend and I were talking about what relationships were
to men and what relationships are to girls.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
This is really in alignment. No, That's why I said
define relationship because I've had there's there's been different relationships
and she goes, oh, yeah, this is our thing. Hi, Jane,
for our session tomorrow, please bring in a photo of
your father and each man you have been in a
relationship with She says, we're going to use these in
our work, thank you?

Speaker 5 (08:34):
Is it like a lineup? Like I envision it to
be like pick one of these in a crime.

Speaker 2 (08:40):
To which I said, amy, ha, define relationship and she
said she was okay, you are hilarious. And she goes
those relationships that you consider impactful in your life and
emotionally meaningful, good or bad. Again, we asked a fine relationship.
So it's like, what are you looking at?

Speaker 1 (09:02):
I'm just looking at Oh she's.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
Looking just doing a quick Google search, you know. I'm
just like, But then I started thinking about too, and
this is I'm going so all over the all over
the place. But some of these I don't really have
pictures of because I'm like, she'd just like bring my Instagram,
like google Google. Some maybe can't be googled, you know.

(09:25):
We hope not, actually, I hope. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (09:27):
The Google lists are probably the most secure relationship we've had.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
I just I'm a little nervous about it. The I'm like,
what is she gonna do you have like a type? No,
I mean it doesn't seem to me. Catherine's so funny.
I remember I called you the other day and I
was like, hey, if you want to go pick me up,
I'll three at Whole Food's real cute high school boy.
I remember his name. What's his name? Bailey?

Speaker 3 (09:50):
Bailey?

Speaker 2 (09:51):
I love you.

Speaker 5 (09:51):
So I'm like, because I thought Bailey on the rocks.
So I hang up and press and goes who's that
And I said Janna and I'm a horrible liar. And
he's like, what's she calling about?

Speaker 2 (10:02):
Bailey? And I said, oh, and.

Speaker 5 (10:04):
I just got really hot and sweaty, and he's like what,
And I was like, it's just a mom thing.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
Is really funny.

Speaker 5 (10:07):
There's this guy the check out and he's like really,
and I'm like, don't worry, instacar. It's not like that's
a problem for me.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
High school boy.

Speaker 2 (10:16):
He was so college, don't be a creepy. I don't really.

Speaker 3 (10:23):
No.

Speaker 2 (10:23):
I was just we were just having a day and
so and so I called her and I was while
I was in the check and I just felt so ugly.
I felt so mom and just like you know, just
I just like front the old sweatshirt and then there's
a sweet Bailey, Hey, ma'am, make ready to check out,
and I was just like, you're so cute, and you know,
he just was like so kind and so sweet and

(10:45):
just he was just like, I hope you have a
beautiful day. And I was just like, you're beautiful. Man.

Speaker 5 (10:52):
One more common, I'm gonna have to call security.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
So then I called Kristen, was just like, hey, if
you want a really good pick me up right now,
like go to Whole Foods Aisle three. And I said,
did you hear my tires squealing out?

Speaker 1 (11:02):
Did you go to Hold.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
Foods right off? Do you tell?

Speaker 1 (11:05):
And then you're gone?

Speaker 2 (11:06):
I did tell Michael though, just in this in the
defense because I thought about that. I was like, man,
So I just called Kristen and I told her because
I'm like I would be upset. Well actually, but I
mean the family. He's like a high school college kid.
So I told told him. I was like, you know,
I still got it. I had a ma'am, ma'm, ma'am, ma'am.
Do you maybe I don't? I love you so much?

(11:27):
But if we're ma'am, you're right, but it maybe it?
Then okay, So to full circle this, it flashed me
back to then my high school sweetheart. So like for
tomorrow session, It's like, it's interesting the relationships that have
impacted us in our life. So or vision you walking
in with like a yearbook stack. Well this was when

(11:49):
I was, you know, thirteen, but no, it was. It's
so interesting because all the work that I've kind of
been doing this month, she it all goes obviously back
to like my dad issues, which again we're great now,
but it's just so funny how each relationship you still
bring a piece of that into each relationship. I brought
more than a piece. What did you brought? Like luggage?

Speaker 5 (12:10):
And I was like, don't look behind the curtain, just
say yes to marry me and we'll talk about this later.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
We'll deal with this in therapy later.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yeah, but anyways, sorry about my little rant. I love
your ma'am. Ma'am do you still have it? I don't know.
I think I got enough. Mam. He wants you to
pack his lunch.

Speaker 1 (12:26):
There's a different.

Speaker 2 (12:29):
But anyways, I've really enjoyed mom month, and as excited
as I am to go back to relationship talks, I
do think that we should get We should do at
least a once a month. My secret ballot right now
and we can all put our votes in. Sorry, Mike,
you're voted off the island. Off, Well, no, because one
so I did questions before I left, and then I

(12:51):
said ask questions and they said, can you and your
girls do a mom podcast all the time? And I
was just like, I yes, yeah, thousand percent best piece
of advice for a first time mama to be. So
I told them to send in some questions and that
was one. What do you think your best piece of

(13:12):
advice would be?

Speaker 1 (13:13):
Mine would be scheduling. Scheduling what like getting the baby
on a schedule early?

Speaker 2 (13:18):
Oh yeah, So someone asked when you talked about that,
how do you get someone them like, which schedule do you?
Because there's so many different sleeping schedules.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
I think for you, I mean, I like the oh gosh,
I can't remember what it was called, but it's similar
to baby Wise, but not so strict. It was a
little bit less. Maybe furber I could be making that up.
I'm not sure, but I just think the schedule in
general is what helps and just having that, you know,
set bedtime very important.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
Sorry now I'm just laughing. I'm sorry. I just flashed
back to our group text between the three of us
and can we please we.

Speaker 5 (13:55):
Need to.

Speaker 2 (13:57):
Kristen sent a photo of well a video a video
and then Love pooped in her.

Speaker 1 (14:07):
When she was in mom hell in the bathroom for
an hour.

Speaker 2 (14:13):
I'm the number one girl. And then.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
She yeah, because she went in the swim suation.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
I was in we forget, Oh what a mess? Do
you want my advice? You want to talk about poop
and a swimsuit?

Speaker 3 (14:27):
No?

Speaker 2 (14:28):
But I agree with Catherine's I think schedule is very important.
I think babies need it. I think it's great. You
guys are both really good at that. We did baby Wise. Yeah,
but you also, like with your husband and stuff, that's
hard because he's on the road. That's hard to Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
I just think that helps you your sanity. It does
help your help mom sanity.

Speaker 5 (14:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
But I also think they are better adapted to the kids.

Speaker 1 (14:52):
Absolutely, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (14:54):
But they know what to expect. Yeah. But we did
the every feed play What is it? I think it was.
I think it was baby Wise, play Place Sleep, Yeah,
something like that. But it did. It worked for Jolie,
it worked for jas like we were super obsessed with that.
What's your best piece of mom advice?

Speaker 5 (15:09):
I actually got this advice from Jesse James Decker in
interview love.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
This.

Speaker 5 (15:16):
I read this while I was pregnant with lovebugs. This
had to be about four years ago, and Jesse said,
do one thing a day that makes you feel like yourself,
like you could be like I think for her, I
remember this example. I don't know if it was hers
or someone else that she cited, but she said, like,
she loves to wear lipstick and it makes her feel
like a person. So she was like, there was days

(15:36):
basically where she looked broke down and oversized sweatpants with
like dirty hair, but she would wear lipstick.

Speaker 2 (15:41):
And so I kind of adopted that, and I did.

Speaker 5 (15:45):
I was at home with love the first year a
lot alone, and I would like, for me, it was
curling my hair, and so I would just that seems
so silly, but it just made me feel like a person.
I never left the house. It just reminded me to like,
it made me feel pretty or something.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
But I I liked.

Speaker 5 (16:00):
She was like, whether it's a hot cup of coffee,
whether it's lipstick or reading a book, or just pick
one thing a day that you is attainable for you
to do that makes you feel like yourself. And that
saved me a lot of days. Silly had nothing to
do with the baby. But maybe that's why I helped.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
No, I loved that. I think it helps probably postpart
him too.

Speaker 5 (16:18):
Yeah, yeah, because I mean literally, just sitting in a
condo for like three hundred and sixty five days, it's
a little wears you out. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:24):
I think my best piece of advice for a first
time mama to be is I remember the first two
weeks after having both kids, and remember how like, you know,
you just start crying for no reason. Oh yeah, not
to hold in that cry, let it out. It feels
so good. I remember the second time with Jace, I
was like, yeah, I don't know, it just felt gay,

(16:46):
like just embrace the ugliness of it all, because it
goes by so fast, too fast. Like I look at
Jason now and I'm just like, you're not a baby anymore.
How did you know you were to have kids? You
don't really.

Speaker 6 (17:05):
For you?

Speaker 2 (17:05):
Uh, I just I want it was so fast with us, Yeah,
I mean it was like.

Speaker 5 (17:12):
But I will say, in previous relationships and in a
previous marriage, every time when someone would say when are
you guys gonna have kids because we had been together
so long, I would say I'm not ready yet. But
then when I met my person. It was fast, fast, fast,
and I was like, oh, I, I'm gonna have babies
with you?

Speaker 6 (17:28):
Like it?

Speaker 2 (17:28):
Just so that felt maybe when you feel like you
have a real partner.

Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah, cap I wanted babies for so long.

Speaker 2 (17:38):
It was just for me.

Speaker 1 (17:39):
It was like, I'm married, when are we having babies?

Speaker 2 (17:41):
Yeah? That's kind of same me too, Yeah, love me
some babies.

Speaker 5 (17:45):
I always wanted babies. I just didn't want to raise
a husband and babies, understood. Yeah, So I actually would
like to say, if you feel like you could be
raising your husband and babies, this might not be the
time to have babies.

Speaker 2 (17:58):
Sorry. One of the questions I just got was are
you ticklish? That's very interesting relevant to really going to
content that much as it is, just I didn't know
about Jane. Someone asked, how do you deal with the
anger of infertility and not being able to have babies?
Would you like to start with that?

Speaker 5 (18:16):
Kristen, Well, we I always I carry a bit of
guilt at how easily we get pregnant because I have
a lot of friends that have dealt with infertility. But
we didn't always keep the babies, so we lost one
between our kids, and that was rather devastating for a

(18:36):
long time. That's actually when you and I got to
me in my brain. That's when you and I got
close because you were my first call when I pulled
out of the parking lot and I was like, I
don't know how to lose a baby.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
What do you do with the anger?

Speaker 5 (18:49):
Though? Because I think that piece is I wasn't actually
angry as much as I was sad. It didn't go
to anger to me until other people were in sensitive
to it. That's when I got angry, like just dumb comments,
just like like do you get annoying people like well,

(19:09):
at least you know, yeah, just anything. I just was like,
until you've walked it, you just don't know, you really don't.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
So best just to say I'm sorry that you're going
through that.

Speaker 5 (19:18):
Yeah, I mean, anger is probably because there's some deep
healing that needs to be done. But again, like I
don't feel like I'm even fair. It's not fair for
me to even speak on that because we were able
to have babies, three pregnancies, two babies.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
Do you usually go to sadness?

Speaker 6 (19:39):
M h?

Speaker 2 (19:41):
Where do you usually go when you're when you're upset?
Not upset, but I mean when you when you start
to feel something like, what is your first feeling?

Speaker 1 (19:51):
That's a good question. I mean, I've never experienced something
as I'm.

Speaker 2 (19:54):
Not even talking with day, just like any arguments with
with your husband.

Speaker 1 (19:58):
I think I start out angry, but I cry when
I'm angry, sames I'm sad, which I don't think. I
really just think I'm so angry. I cry for whatever reason. Yeah,
but I usually start out angry and then go to
a sad place, I guess, but I start out with anger,
so I'm I mean, I don't know in that position
if I would have gone, you know, to anger first

(20:20):
or sadness, I don't know. Yeah, yeah, not been in
your shoes, so I know.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
I was just when you when I was reading that,
I was just like, how anger? Because I think it
depends on the situation. But like I know when I
lost it was I go anger first. So I'm always
just like, how do you not go angry first? Because
I like, I want to do that more in my life. Yeah,
not go angry first. I'd like to go angry first
a little more, so maybe we can help each other. No, no, no, no, no, no,

(20:47):
I think it's better not because underneath the anger is
just hurt yea and pain and sad. I just get
straight to that. I guess I just skip that and
go straight to devastated. So that's the good news, guys.
Let's take a break. So update on the diapers. I

(21:16):
am keeping Jolie in pull ups at night because let
me say this, just to recap on the Joe Frost thing,
she came out of her room at least thirty times.
I was texting you girls like I'm about to lose
my mind, but I'm doing what she said and I
had the thing off too. So during all of that,
she then pees herself and it's like ten o'clock a night.

(21:38):
I'm just like, I cannot handle this, so I've put
a pull up on her, and but ever since then,
she has not gotten out of her bed. So for me,
I'm like, let's just do one thing at like one
when at a time, I'm like, I'm not pulling two
things off at once. But she has not gotten out
of her bed.

Speaker 1 (21:56):
I'm so happy.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
I mean, great job. It was from seven o'clock to
ten o'clock at night. I need bed. Yeah, And then
I'm like I'm like, like I would do it five
times and I say, Mike, yeah, I'm about to lose it,
like like you know, pass out like whatever, like high five,
tap out. And then he would do it and he's like,

(22:18):
I'm about to lose it. I was like, just don't
he was, He's he started to have He's a jolleye. Stop.
I'm like, no, no, no, no, don't give her any satisfaction,
pick her up, put her back in bed.

Speaker 5 (22:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
So was it just one night? Then one night she
said she's hours.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
See if you listen for three hours but you did it,
isn't it worth it?

Speaker 2 (22:38):
It's worth it now it is.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
I feel really bad about giving you a shame about
the pull ups when you said and then she peter
her Oh god, I take it back.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
I'm sorry, she.

Speaker 3 (22:48):
Is.

Speaker 2 (22:48):
How is I love doing? Though? Okay, so.

Speaker 5 (22:52):
Bless this little one. Uh Sunday, I was like, okay,
so no pull ups. I waited till I had reinforcements
at home, had dead dah and I was like, all right,
it's no pull up Sunday.

Speaker 2 (23:02):
And this is how it goes. So pull ups ever,
moved out of the bathroom and at ten am she
starts holding her little booty outside of her little big
girl panties and she said, oh, I really got a poop.
I just need to pull up.

Speaker 5 (23:15):
And this went on all day and I just kept
saying encouraging, like we can go to the potty at
any time. Let me know when you're ready to go
to the potty. So she's scared of it hitting the water.
This is early on traumatic and Air quotes experience for
her when she started peeing on the potty. Anyways, we
make it through Sunday. She does not have to she
will not poop, so she's just holding it all day.

(23:36):
Monday morning, here we go to swim and she's in
the sweetest little ballerina one piece and she's at swim
and I'm like, great, put her in swim with her
little instructor and I hit the treadmill for a minute
and then I get the call Lovely needs to go bathroom,
she needs to get. I get her out of the pool,
and she's walking over to me and she's like just weeping.

(23:59):
I'm afraid, I'm afraid I've already pooped in my in
my in my swimsuit. I'm afraid there's poop in my swimsuit.
And I'm like, bless your heart. So thank god there
was a ruffle kind of hid any disaster we had
as we trotted in the bathroom. Very dramatic, but I did.
I just told her, I said, you know, honestly happens.
Maybe that's maybe a mom came up with that, but

(24:20):
I was like, you know what, love this happens. We
went to the restroom. I did make her clean it.

Speaker 2 (24:24):
Up, okay, how which is a big step because like
she's just disgusted with poopment in general, like she's such
a capricorn. So we I had her up.

Speaker 5 (24:33):
We just kind of cleaned it up. She hasn't pooped
since that. She did one time. She does sleep in
a pull up overnight still, which I have no problem
with that art she said. I I just to do
that because Jolie's been potty trained since she was uh
two and a half. Yeah, for two she really rocked

(24:54):
in So but the night time, like I'm not getting
up in the middle of the night to body train,
Like I'm just not doing it.

Speaker 1 (24:59):
She's everything, You're still, and I just think that if
they're dry for a certain amount of time, sure, that's
when I always took them away.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
That was going to be my strategy when they were saying.

Speaker 1 (25:09):
Them until they were dry, and then we just took them.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
She got up in the morning.

Speaker 1 (25:12):
But I mean there's some people that are in elementary
school that are still wearing them at night and they're
not dry.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
Look, men still shirk their pants. So it does happen
until we.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
Meet the right woman and they get us to stop
doing that.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
I do see skid marks quite frequently on underwear, let
me tell you. Honestly, though, I feel like it's a
childhood trauma, like from seeing like dad skid marks. You know,
It's like I always just thought men pooped in their pants.

Speaker 5 (25:39):
All right.

Speaker 3 (25:39):
Tracy Crossley, you know Tracy Crossley from crossley dot com
and her podcast Dealing with It, an Apple podcast.

Speaker 1 (25:45):
He's on the phone.

Speaker 2 (25:46):
Oh yay, Tracy, Hello, thank you for breaking up our conversation.
We were just having super appreciate it. You are a
behavioral Oh god, I can't even say that word behavior.
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (25:58):
Behavior.

Speaker 2 (25:59):
Behavior is that bad that I can't say that word.
She'll train you. Behavior.

Speaker 6 (26:06):
It's a long word, it's multi syllable, so it's fine.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
Your relationship expert and podcast host, you specialize in treating
individuals with unhealthy dating and relationship patterns. Where have you been?
Where were you in my twenties? This is all I
have to say. I see you're about twenty years later
for me, Tracy, where are you been?

Speaker 6 (26:24):
I got it? I understand.

Speaker 2 (26:27):
What's the biggest pattern that you've seen to be the
biggest problem.

Speaker 6 (26:32):
Uh, well, there's a couple of them. But the biggest
one is people are not authentic. And I know that's
a really general statement, but with not being authentic come secrets.
Becomes a problem with actually being emotionally intimate with another person,
because if you're not being yourself, who are you being?
And you're not attracting them to you, you're attracting them

(26:54):
to someone that you're you have a facade for. So,
but that's the biggest one, next to people not staying
in reality. A lot of people get into fantasy, like
on the first day, Oh this is fun, this person's
perfect or whatever idea they're coming up with, and they
start getting ahead and thinking about, oh wow, I want
to introduce he or sheet to my parents, and then

(27:17):
they're already way to hell out of the first date
and into fantasy. So it's always about staying in reality
and being yourself like, those are the two biggest things.

Speaker 2 (27:27):
What about because I feel like in that moment it
is all perfect because it is so new, like staying
in that reality where it's like nothing has been tampered
or broken or lost or beginning, you know, because the
sweet beginning. So isn't that still kind of a reality
staying in that moment?

Speaker 6 (27:47):
Or am I just really.

Speaker 2 (27:51):
You are?

Speaker 6 (27:55):
Well, it's great to have a spark, right, But it's
when you get carried away with the spark, because then
that's how you develop expectations and you're wanting those expectations
to remain. And what you're doing is, first of all,
you don't really know the person, right. It's what you're
picking up from what they're doing, and you're thinking, oh,
that hits my checklist. That sounds good, that sounds good,

(28:18):
that sounds good. But the reality of the person and
getting to know them and living with them, not literally
living with them, but living with them as far as
getting to know them and dating them and so on
and so forth, you find that, oh, wow, my expectations
are really out of whack compared to who this person
really is. So you know, at some point you're gonna

(28:39):
have to deal with the disappointment of that.

Speaker 2 (28:41):
So I know you have that ten week boot camp.
It helps people, you know, with the dysfunctional yo yo
daters having you know, problems moving on from a past relationship.
Why do you think people hang on to relationships that
are not serving them?

Speaker 6 (29:00):
Well, there's a couple of reasons, but one of the
biggest ones is to do with insecure attachment. So a
lot of people who I don't know, how much do
your listeners know about that?

Speaker 2 (29:12):
We talk about our relationships a lot, So can you
tell us a little bit more of that about that?

Speaker 6 (29:18):
Sure? Sure? So with insecure attachment, basically, as a child,
you either securely attached to your parents or you're insecurely
attached to your parents, meaning emotionally. So there were experiments
that were done in the early seventies by a psychologist
named Mary Ainsworth and it was called the Strange experiment,
And so it's where a parent would leave a child

(29:40):
and they would judge the child's reaction to the parent leaving.
So a lot of us who didn't necessarily emotionally bond
with our parents in a way where there's emotional intimacy
tend to come at relationships in a completely different way
than somebody who was securely attached to a parent. So,

(30:01):
as an example, let's say that you had a parent
who wasn't around very much, and so you would try
to be perfect or try to please them to get
their attention, and maybe you still didn't really get their
attention because they'd come home and they'd be preoccupied. So
you would be looking for somebody who is preoccupied. And
this is not a conscious thought, by the way, this

(30:23):
is totally subconscious autopilot. Okay, I'm looking for somebody who's
not really going to give me that attention. And then
the way I think I get love is by people
pleasing or trying to be perfect, which is also why
people have trouble being authentic when they first start dating.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
I sorry, I just have to say, first of all,
there's a lot of head shaking going on in.

Speaker 5 (30:47):
This room, a lot of nonverbal amen's happening over yours.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
Also, I've never heard it, in all the years of
therapy and having experts come on, I've never heard it
said quite that way. And I feel like some somehow
that just kind of clicked because I know, I know,
like you know, all of us have you know, experiences
with our upbringing, and I've always been able to relay.

(31:12):
Oh that's probably why I do that. But with how
you phrased it, can you say that word again, that
in secure attachment? Yeah, that's a yeah. I love how
you put that, because that just was like, oh, that's
one thousand percent.

Speaker 5 (31:26):
What it is was the most groundbreaking moment I've had
been non therapy therapy in my entire life.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
One thousand percent. I could have used you two marriages ago.
Where have you been? Well?

Speaker 4 (31:38):
Had?

Speaker 6 (31:39):
I had to learn this in between my first and
second marriage. So yeah, and a lot of it was
my own journey. I mean I trained as a coach,
and I went to school and got my degree in psychology.
But yeah, none of this really prepared me for why
I felt the way I did and the struggles I
had in dating, relationships, being a single mom, all that stuff.

(32:00):
I mean that was my title. And I really didn't
even understand myself, Like I didn't understand why am I
picking these people? Why am I doing this? Why can't
I be real? What is so hard about asking somebody
a question? Well, if you're afraid they're going to abandon
you or think something was wrong with you, then you're
not going to ask the questions, right, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:20):
And you're also yeah, one thousand percent. This is so crazy.
I feel like because I was just having so simplified
and I was just having this conversation. I was telling
Kat about it the other day in the car. I
was like, I know that we all know that like
my dad and you know those I'm not. I will
never blame my dad because I know that he was
brought up a certain way which led him to, you know,
be a parent a certain way to me. But you know,

(32:41):
I have learned that some ways of his you know,
of our of my upbringing was based on how he
you know, he handled the divorce and how he left
and had the affairs, and so that then made me
go off to do you know X, Y and Z.
But I so I've always known that my dad's like
affected my relations and chips because of the things that happen,

(33:02):
but I've never my therapist is trying to tell me
the other day where it's just like you've stayed in
certain things because you're or you've tried to be so
perfect because you're so afraid of that abandonment. But what
you just said makes it even clarifies it even more
to me with that insecure attachment.

Speaker 6 (33:22):
Mm hmmm. Yeah, until I just skipped for I was
going to say, until I discovered it, I really had
no clue. And then here's this was a kicker. Okay,
So there's different labels under insecure attachment. I happened to
fall under anxious avoidant. Okay, so what the hell is that?

Speaker 2 (33:41):
Right?

Speaker 6 (33:42):
So anxious meaning I would have I would get into
these relationships with people like the yo yo ones and
where I call it breadcrumbing, right where you hit it
off at first, and you think everything's great and they're
making promises to you, and then all of a sudden
they do kind of like the fade out, and then
they show back up, right, but you're thinking, oh my god,

(34:02):
they're gone, I've ruined this relationship whatever, And they show
back up and you're back in it. And this can
go on for years, right, And so I kept going,
what the heck is my problem? But I had such
tremendous anxiety during it, and then this is this is
where I'm coming in with the avoidant. So then he
would kind of change and want to get closer, and

(34:27):
I became avoidant. Oh wait a minute, I don't have
time to see you, I don't want to talk to you.
I'm going to ignore you. I mean, so I was
both sides of the coin, and a lot of people
I help are both sides of the coin as well,
going between anxiety and avoiding and meeting people who would
be healthy and that would give you anxiety like, oh
my god, I'm feeling engulfed. Oh God, I get away

(34:48):
from me. You know, I don't want anything to do
with you.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
So yeah, well why is that?

Speaker 2 (34:53):
Because I know with relationships, you know, the guys that
actually might have been the best for you, you don't
want because it's that they're too nice, or I feel
too smothered, or you know, they don't have that bad boy,
but you know that they'd probably be a great husband
and they wouldn't never hurt you.

Speaker 6 (35:15):
Why because there's a few there's there's okay, so there's like,
there are so many reasons why. So first of all,
remember the subconscious wiring here, right, So if you don't
have to work hard, like you don't have to be perfect,
you don't have to be a people pleaser, you don't
know what the heck to do with yourself. So oh
I gotta be me, and so you're not you're not

(35:36):
performing the drama we are used to having drama because
that is drama, and drama doesn't necessarily mean yelling and screaming.
Drama means these heightened emotions, right of am I gonna
have my dad hug me today? Or my dad gonna
stop watching TV and actually pay attention to me? You know?
Is my dad going to critique me? Whatever? So as

(35:59):
an adult, we are still caught up in those patterns.
And when you meet somebody who's open and available and
you don't have to dance around like that, it feels
like it's boring for one. I mean, that's when you're
coming out of this, right you can feel like, oh,
this is boring, there's no spark. But the spark we're
looking for is that intensity that makes us actually feel

(36:22):
our feelings. Because what we really don't realize through all
of this with the insecure attachment, is that we're really
pretty numb to our own feelings. Like we know our reactions, right,
we know if we're mad, sad, whatever, but we don't
know the deeper feelings because we're cut off from them.
And so when you meet somebody and you have that
chemistry and it's all that excitement and they're a bad boy.

(36:44):
Then it's that constant drama. It's like watching a movie,
right and you're just going along with the plot. But
when you meet somebody and it's not that way, it's
almost like you really just don't know what to do
with yourself. So that's why to me it was really hard,
Like I wanted to get in a healthy relationship, and
so I really had to go okay, trace you got

(37:05):
to deal with all this intensity. You've got to deal
with the fact that you don't know how you feel
on a deeper level and what drives you to actually
be with people who can't give you what you want.
So there's a lot there. I mean, I could go
on and on and on for hours probably about just
that question if.

Speaker 2 (37:20):
You're in the relationship though, you know, for the for
the married ones out there that have the pattern of this,
it can be such heightened emotions and you're also portraying
that they need to be perfect, but they're not perfect.
It's like, how do you walk through that season of
life to get to a healthier spot.

Speaker 6 (37:41):
So you have to make a decision to want to
be a good partner to have a healthy relationship regardless
of your partner, Okay, because you can't control another person,
and a lot of us put well, I'm going to
change or I'm going to grow, but we put that
on the other person to have to do it with us.
It's a decision that you want to make to have

(38:02):
a sense of well being, right, and so what you
have to do is, first of all, you've got to
look at how much energy physical and emotional energy goes
out of my body trying to control or maintain this
relationship so that it's at least familiar to me. You know,
a lot of times we want change, but at the
same time we want to keep it familiar. So first

(38:23):
of all, you've got to realize what are the things
that I am doing to stay stuck in this place
with this person emotionally, and then you have to stop
doing those things. As an example, again, you know I'm
using people pleasing and perfectionism, but there's also problem solving.
How often in your relationship that doesn't feel great and

(38:44):
you're committed to are you looking for problems? Is your
focus on all the problems? Why is it on all
the problems? Well, that's a distraction from intimacy. You can't
be intimate with someone if you're always focusing on, well,
what's wrong, and then something gets solved, and then you're
focused on the next problem. So there's all sorts of things.
We tend to personalize our mates, We tend to assume

(39:05):
a lot about our mates, and it's to step out
of that and to really become emotionally present to what
is happening when you do what you do. This is
hard because most of the time we are on autopilots
ninety five percent of the day. We're just repeating the
same patterns, repeating the same things. And so to actually
develop some awareness about how you even interact in your

(39:28):
relationship and you stop blaming the other person for how
they are, you can make a big change right there,
just by taking responsibility and going, oh, you know what,
I didn't realize that I do that, that I keep
finding problems with my mate, right, I mean, how often
do we do that?

Speaker 5 (39:47):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (39:47):
Often? But what if there are problems though?

Speaker 6 (39:51):
You know Kate now and that's it, So that would
be different. You know, somebody has big problems in their relationship, Okay,
there is total dysfunction. They have to look at why
they're staying there. A lot of times we stay out
of fear. Sometimes we'll say, oh, it's the money, it's
the kids, But really it's a fear. It's a fear
of ending up alone. It's a fear because I don't

(40:13):
trust myself to make the right decision. What if I
leave and it was the wrong decision. So it's just
easier to blame your mate for all their faults and
everything wrong with them, and never look at yourself. You
still have to take yourself in hand and go what
am I doing? I am half of the relationship, so
I must be doing something. But it's to take yourself,

(40:35):
you know, to take yourself in hand and start making
the changes inside of you. You know, what do you
resist in the relationship? Meaning what are you fighting against
and struggling against all the time? That never changes?

Speaker 3 (40:48):
You think?

Speaker 2 (40:48):
Do you think change is a change is possible?

Speaker 6 (40:54):
I've seen it. I mean I've been doing this for
twelve years and I have seen people chanting their relationships
for the better. But it usually takes both of them
wanting that. What I often find instead is that when
somebody starts working on themselves and they're getting to a
better place that there's a distance that even grows more
in the relationship. Now that might spurt the other person

(41:18):
who's not doing anything about themselves to start doing something.
But in all honesty, you really want someone that's motivated
to want to feel better and have their own sense
of wellbeing rather than a fear of losing you. Because
we're talking about love, and for some reason it seems
really romantic when we're making somebody fear losing us. But

(41:39):
that's not really romantic. That's about love. So as you
start to love yourself more and your mate decides to
cool you, guys might work it out. If you're the
only one doing it, it's probably going to be where
you work yourself out of the relationship over time.

Speaker 2 (41:54):
How do you not put I totally agree with you
on that. How do you not put this where? I
know it's such a codependent way of thinking, but sometimes
in a lot of relationships I've been and even you know,
in my relationship with my husband, I'll say, well, you
don't make me happy, or this doesn't this doesn't make

(42:14):
me happy. So it's like I'm almost is that is
that just codependency? Because of course he can't make me happy,
or though his actions might not make me happy, but
I still I still am in control of that, aren't I.

Speaker 6 (42:29):
Yeah, you are in control of that because if you
think about it, Okay, and this is a little off topic,
but it's an example. So let's say that you want
to throw somebody a surprise party, Okay, and the reason
you're doing it, of course, you want to do something
nice for your friend, let's say, but if you don't
have any joy in the process of putting the surprise
party together, then you're missing the boat, especially if your

(42:53):
friend has a bad reaction is like I don't like
surprise parties. Why'd you do the surprise party for me?

Speaker 2 (42:58):
Right?

Speaker 6 (42:58):
So here you are trying to do some thing you
think is going to make somebody happy, and they're like,
this doesn't make me happy. This really is embarrassing. I'm
so embarrassed. So it's the same thing in our relationships
where we tend to want to please the other person,
Like my husband does things to please me, and even
if I'm in a crappy mood, or let's say I'm

(43:20):
not happy in the moment, I do appreciate it, but
I know he can't make me happy and that's up
to me. And actually, actually in a relationship, it's such
a great opportunity to work on yourself because you recognize, oh,
my feelings aren't going to change unless I do something
about it. So it always comes back to you. And

(43:41):
if you have a partner like my partner, I feel
he's all about growing himself and I'm about growing myself.
So it works really well. I don't blame him for things.
I don't put things on him because I know in
the end, I'm still going to feel the same way.
I'm still going to feel like I feel whenever that is,
you know, like right now, tomorrow, it's still gonna be

(44:03):
my feelings.

Speaker 5 (44:06):
Right, Okay, I have a question. I'm actually this is
actually asking for a friend, not a friend in the room.
But I have a girlfriend who is twice divorced and
has two little kids, and she stop talking about me while.

Speaker 2 (44:21):
This is actually asking for a friend.

Speaker 5 (44:23):
So the authenticity we talked that you talked about, like
at the very beginning of the relationship, she struggles sometimes
with when to like out herself as a twice divorced mother,
you know, like obviously she talks about her kids kind
of like straight out of the gate. But when it
comes to being married twice, I know there's some shame
attached to that for her a little bit. And then

(44:45):
when she tries to date, she's like, Okay, at what
point do I say, like, you know, to a lot
of men that feels like, you know, a girl's crazy
so and she's not. She's actually a beautiful human being.
She just has seen a lot more in men then
they even solve themselves kind of. But I'm wondering what
your advice would be for her when she's dating, and

(45:07):
when is maybe an appropriate time to say that, or
maybe it's not their business, or what is your I
really love you already and you've really cracked a lot
of things for me.

Speaker 6 (45:16):
So okay, So of course this is going to sound crazy.
But first of all, she has to own the fact
that she's been married twice. You got to own it.
You got to say, you know what this is, this
is what's happened, and I got to own it. And
I've got to feel okay about it first. So if

(45:36):
you feel okay about something first, you don't really care
when you tell somebody. I would tell somebody right up front,
why because I don't want to go down the path
of Okay, well, maybe he'll like me enough and then
I can tell him at that point. But you're not
the Booby prize. You're still a prize. But if you
don't feel like you're the prize and that somebody is
taking you on, like, oh, you've been married twice, Okay, fine,

(45:58):
I'll take you. You know you'reamage goods or whatever it
is that you've attached to the whole idea of being
married twice. But it's really about saying, screw it, I've
been married twice. Oh well, you know, s happens. Things
happen in life, and here I am. I own it.
I take responsibility for what's happened in my life. And

(46:18):
when you come across like your own heroine, then it's
really about the guy who's going to have the confidence.
And that's what you want anyway, Like you don't want
to bamboozle somebody into being with you because they're deciding, oh, okay,
you've been married twice. I'll take you because of that,
and you're the Booby Prize. No, you want someone who
thinks that you're awesome no matter what, and the right

(46:40):
guy and not that there's just one right guy, by
the way, but the right guy or a guy that's
confident enough you're going to have a great relationship with.
You're going to have a relationship with someone who's actually
a partner rather than somebody who feels like they got
the leftovers, you know, like the day old bread or something.

Speaker 2 (46:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (46:56):
I like that's she's like a fiercely independent I mean,
she obviously is in't therapy. She's so strong and so good.
There's been a couple of times where she's kind of
immediately said those things, and I think she felt the
relief of the ownership of it, you know, just being
like this is it? Because she is so amazing, Like
I'd marry her. You know, she's a good she's a
really really great check.

Speaker 2 (47:16):
She's a catch.

Speaker 5 (47:17):
So I just know she would appreciate that insight a lot.
What is you not to get I have too personal
in your life? But what is your biggest struggle with
your husband? Now?

Speaker 2 (47:30):
Not to get too personal? Take us into your bedroom.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
I know, Oh my god.

Speaker 6 (47:34):
I mean, well, if you listen to my podcast, you
would know that there's nothing really that I don't hold
back from. I would say, as far as my husband goes,
I don't know. I think my biggest struggle with myself
when it comes to my husband is more about my
own avoidancy. Right, So, like I said, it was an

(47:54):
anxious avoidant. And so there's times we're all fine. Like
I also can be kind of a alcoholic. Let's say
where I start putting up walls and I'll realize it
and I'll go, okay, Trace, this is how you used
to do relationships, right, You just get all on your
head and thinking about work or thinking about something and
be totally focused and checked out to my surroundings and

(48:17):
the fact that I have a relationship. And so what
I do now is I'll catch myself and it'll feel
hard because it should feel hard, and I'll be vulnerable,
and I will tell him. I always tell on myself,
you know what, this is what I'm doing. Or I'll
just go over and I'll hug him or crawl on
top of him or whatever, you know. I mean, I
will get closer to him rather than farther apart from him,

(48:41):
and that's great. And the I guess, you know, the
other struggle would be we both can be kind of introverted,
Like we're both like introvert extroverts. Right, so we can
both get caught up in our things and he'll be
quiet about stuff because he's not used to having somebody
who wants to hear about him, and I always want
to hear about him. So I would say for him,

(49:02):
it's opening up more, even though he's not really trying
to hide it. It's just like these old patterns that
we've had from past relationships, I think are the things
that sometimes get in the way. But we really do
have good communications, so that helps. And if we trigger
each other right where I'll say something and he gets upset,

(49:22):
we're pretty good about being in reality and going whoa,
wait a minute, Okay, that's my stuff and need to
I need to work on that. I need to figure
out why I'm triggered or why I want to strangle
you right now. I got to figure that out because
it really doesn't have anything to do with the moment,
because I can tell because I'm like totally reacting when

(49:43):
it's not even something that would have actually been anything
to react to in the first place. So stuff like that,
I mean, so.

Speaker 2 (49:49):
Like reships aren't perfect, then my insecure attachments, little child
is saying, wait, so then really, not all relationships are perfect.
What d for entertainment?

Speaker 6 (50:00):
Right, I know, not perfect, but you know what, here's
the thing. They can be safe. So most who have
insecure attachment, right, we're looking for safety. We're looking for security,
and a lot of times we think it's it's somebody.

Speaker 5 (50:18):
You know.

Speaker 6 (50:18):
Again, we're doing all those things that we're used to
doing and they're reacting to it. That that makes us
feel safe, That that's temporary. Like there's a real feeling
of safety when you've done the inner work and then
you have somebody who's consistent, who's stable, or your relationship
excuse me, your relationship keeps progressing. You know, there's growth,
there's communication, you have those things working and it just

(50:41):
makes such a difference. And the thing with the inner child,
you know, that little kid, is that you start to
love her in a different way. Like I look at
it as though there are always things that I can
be aware of, and one of them is when I
disconnect from my own feelings. When you do that, you
disconnect from your inner child. When you are connected and

(51:05):
you're really relaxed in that and you're feeling all of
your feelings, you start to realize that whether it's you
as a little kid or you as an adult, you
actually feel really good. And that means in almost any situation,
and that sort of answers that need that the inner
child has because attachment, no, well, it can get better,

(51:32):
it can be resolved. It really can. Like I read
that book Attached, I don't know how many years ago
it was, and I and that's like the seminal book
about attachment. And right now I have a literary agent
who's shopping my book on attachment. So anyways, this book
says that people like me who are anxious avoidant, that

(51:52):
there's no way we're ever going to feel better. The
only way we'll feel better is if we find a
partner who make us feel better. And it kind of
pissed me off when I read that. I thought, you
know what, that's bs because I want to feel good
whether I'm in a relationship or not. So you know,
the insecure attachment can absolutely go away. It can absolutely
be taken care of. It's conditioning. It's not who you

(52:15):
really are.

Speaker 1 (52:18):
That's good.

Speaker 2 (52:19):
Do you do private sessions?

Speaker 1 (52:22):
We got three people up for you.

Speaker 5 (52:24):
Do you do?

Speaker 2 (52:26):
What do you do for the next three hours?

Speaker 6 (52:32):
I will get.

Speaker 2 (52:34):
Yeah, okay, amazing. So you your podcast is deal with
It on Apple Podcasts. Everyone listened to her because she's
incredible and apparently you can do private sessions and I
will be going on her website. We will put it
on the bio. Thank you so much, Tracy for just
enlightening this entire room and giving us some some awesome knowledge.

(52:57):
We really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
Thank you, Thank you for having me.

Speaker 6 (53:01):
I love talking about this.

Speaker 2 (53:02):
So I'll talk to you on behalf of me and
my husband.

Speaker 6 (53:07):
Fine, Oh you are welcome, all right, you guys, bye
bye bye.

Speaker 2 (53:22):
So we're all best friends with Tracy. I mean, she's great.
I just want to know more about that. She's secure
attach it so well. Something about the way she said
it was so I mean, that was just it blew
everything out of the water. We were all like it
was so clear to me. Yeah. And it's funny because I,
like Amy and I were just talking about this. Yeah,
well I was telling Catherine about it. But how she

(53:45):
just said it just made that even simpler, Like she
explained it even it made so much sense to me.

Speaker 1 (53:51):
Here's the thing, though, I hear that can I say
this real fast? It gives me so much anxiety? Why
because it just makes me think about my kids. Oh yeah,
that's all I can think about when I because I
know what affects me.

Speaker 2 (54:03):
But what I hear in that is secure attachment and
make a healthy adult. Right But how do you know?

Speaker 5 (54:09):
So they just have to know that they're safe with
us and that we love them, and we talk about
things and we sort through things.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
It doesn't have to be perfect. So like abandonment, like
even if you parents aren't together, like my dad could
have love you, dad, but like there could have been
a different way to not make me feel abandoned, which
then has my So my my insecure attachment is all
about I need to feel safe in a relationship. And
what doesn't I either flee or I cling tighter. Right,

(54:38):
So that's you know. But so then I okay, now
that we have this knowledge, which I don't think our
parents really had because my parents have worn to therapy.

Speaker 1 (54:47):
Yeah, I mean I had my issues with my mom too,
and I don't now as an adult, I don't think
it was purposeful. I don't sure she you know, but
that's what scares me.

Speaker 2 (54:56):
Like now we're aware of that, but I don't, but
I don't think are then we're that in touch with
how this would affect us or or you know again,
like none of them I knew, no knew, no one
that went to therapy.

Speaker 1 (55:09):
Right, that's true.

Speaker 5 (55:10):
And I do think we're all so tuned into like
our kids and our fa I mean, I know the
way you guys mother and it's like we all three
have different styles of mothering, but at the core of
it is always wanting our little ones to feel heard
and loved and safe.

Speaker 2 (55:23):
And I think that neat or that like, well, I
think what's scary to me is like.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
We're in a business where it's constant and so you're
constantly working, whereas like my mom worked all the time,
she was out of the house, you know, right, and
when she came she was home, but she wasn't present.
She wasn't present when she was home. But it's like
finding that balance and how to make sure you're present
but still getting you know, but still working and still
you know, it's just all the all the things.

Speaker 2 (55:46):
No, that's tough, and then like you said, we will
mess them up somehow, because it can be. I tell
Jolie probably too. I love you, I love you, I
love you, I love you, like every two frickin seconds
so if I keep because I'm wanting that love, that's
my own issues, but I portraying that on her to
get that love, so she's probably gonna have Maybe maybe
I'm screwing her up that way. I definitely love is

(56:07):
definitely going to therapy for opposite reasons I did. So
their application of my feelings on this poor thirty pounder
is like, I can't keep my mother happy.

Speaker 5 (56:16):
She's like, why you need more validation? Okay, Oh love
her so much too much not to put the negative
part of it. No, but I mean that's a real
the reality, and I think that's it. But again we're
conscious of that. Yes, more, we're more like Christen, like
you said, we're more in tune to ways to be

(56:37):
careful of maybe not.

Speaker 2 (56:38):
Screwing them up to a tea, which I think is
half the work.

Speaker 1 (56:41):
Sure, just want to we can cheat on our private
like what we need to do.

Speaker 5 (56:45):
Yeah, like in the next thirty minutes when we get
back on when they start knowing her for our private session.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
Okay, let's read an email before we say goodbye. I
can't mom, January.

Speaker 1 (56:57):
It's not happy from Alicia.

Speaker 2 (56:59):
Help. I'm desperate. My husband and I have had a
lot of trust issues lately, and we've been trying to
work through them. A couple months ago, I found cocaine
in his wallet. He said it was a friends, and
I chose to believe him until I found some again later.
He said he was holding it for his friend, who
was hiding it from his wife. He said the friend

(57:22):
has done it around him, but he hasn't done it himself.
He knows I would not be okay, as we have
three children. Well now he's gotten smarter about where he
hides it, and I found four bags of it in
his car. He may be selling it, but I also
think he's doing it since addition to the bags of coke,
I found a folded picture frame and inside, Oh damn,

(57:43):
inside was a rolled up bill with coke clearly on
it and a credit card. I haven't confronted him because
I know he'll lie again. I'm confused and I love him,
but I worry if I can afford to keep our
home since we filed bankruptcy a few months ago.

Speaker 1 (57:59):
Dang h.

Speaker 2 (58:04):
So I'm sorry you're going through this. It's probably safe
to say from this email he's obviously not holding it
for a friend. It is his either way. Yeah, and
he might maybe he's selling it. I don't know, but
it's it's his cocaine. Whether he's I don't think he's

(58:26):
just holding it for a friend. That's like, hey, dude,
like my wife doesn't want this in the house, Like
there's so in high school anymore. So holding it for
a friend doesn't work. That's like what you say when
you're sixteen to get busted. So I need him to
get a little bit. Yeah, a little ownership either way
would be I the bankruptc I mean, because another side
is like, you know, is he maybe selling it because

(58:47):
they're going through some financial problems right now. Doesn't make
it okay at all, does not make it okay, especially
with them having three kids. But she needs to know. Yeah,
obviously though in my opinion, I one thousand percent that
it is his. That's what I think. I think if
he says comes up with a lie, that's just that's

(59:12):
for example, let me just I was dating someone because
I just I have friends that have done cocaine. I've
never touched cocaine. I've never touched a drug in my life,
haven't done it. But I remember I was dating a
guy and he would you know, He's like, I don't
do cocaine. I was like, okay. I was like, well
at that time, I was like, if you do, well,
you just tell me because I just for some I

(59:32):
just I just don't know, Like and I you know
what I'm kind of walking into. And he's like, yeah, absolutely,
He's like, but I don't do it. I'm like, okay.
So I remember I walked down the steps and I
hear him snorting in the bathroom and I walk in
and I'm and I clearly saw him snore a line
of cocaine and I go, what are you doing? And

(59:52):
he goes, I'm using Afron and I'm like, I just
saw you snort cocaine off the countertop, Like what do
you mean? And then but then he made me believe
that it was the Afron and that that's like you said,
it was the addict. And finally I was just like,

(01:00:14):
I can't be in this relationship, Like I even asked
you to be honest with me about it. Yeah. So,
and to me, this feels like this this might be
an addiction because of the and I brought that example
up to say that this might be an addiction because
of the constant lying, lying, yeah. The lying, Yeah, the
lying behavior and the not coming forward and continually finding it.

(01:00:36):
So I applaud you for not going to him yet,
but I think that you need to have a plan
in place for your kids, and a plan in place
to ask for help. If there's a family member you
can go to take the kids away. Like, I would
not confront him around the kids, right, we all agree
once to that, not confronting around the kids.

Speaker 1 (01:00:59):
He needs help, he needs to go to therapy. But
then it's earth, Well it's money.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
How expensive is rehab It's so expensive, so expensive. Well,
what he needs to do first is be honest. Yeah. Well,
and that's that's where I think he should take the
kids out. Kids have to be away. I grew up.
Put them out of this. Yeah addiction, dat addiction. Take
the kids out of the house. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:01:20):
It seeps into them and they take on more than
they need to. So I love the fact that she's like,
I have three kids, and that she's like kind of
shielding them already from that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:29):
Now I don't, And and then I would ask him
to go get help because clearly, whether it's in a
drug addiction or whatever, like he needs some therapy, some
help and y'all need like a good separation because I'm
not saying divorce him, But if he's not willing to
continue to get help and do better, then I don't
see then in my opinion, that's but I do think

(01:01:52):
he deserves the opportunity to try to change. Sure, I
do too, because I do believe I believe in change.

Speaker 1 (01:01:58):
I do too.

Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
But if he keeps messing up, then yeah, I just
as Yeah, we need to be some ownership there for sure,
take the kids out, do some therapy, good separation, yeah,
really ask for some and we just need to even
she doesn't even really know what she's dealing with.

Speaker 1 (01:02:15):
Yeah, it's it's hard the bankrupt thing. Man, that doesn't
I hate to say that, but when there's not a
lot of money there, it's hard to not a lot
of money. But I mean it's expensive. But there are
some programs I think that you can get in that
I think that are like, you know, state funded or something.
There's got to be something out there where he can
go and get help that's not going to cost a

(01:02:36):
lot of money.

Speaker 5 (01:02:36):
Every time I've taken a faithful step into some dark place,
I always feel like I've watched God provide for me,
so hm, I agreed. I know that may seem like
a very impossible thing to wrap your mind around, but
it's like, if you're taking a good step to protect
your children who are also God's children, and maybe make
another broken child healthy who happens to be your husband,

(01:02:57):
then I feel like at some point someone will present
themselves for a way to wiggle out of this, or
at least start the shift.

Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
I love that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
Amenh three to one more from Misty expecting. My husband
and I are expecting our first child together in July.
As soon as we both found out, our reaction was
stress and panic. We need to get into a house,
but we have no money for one. Is it normal
to not be that happy or not happy at all
that I'm actually pregnant. Our entire family is stoked, but
we aren't. Any advice would be tremendously appreciated.

Speaker 5 (01:03:25):
You do not have to live in a house to
have a baby, No, you don't. We lived in a condo,
Dave Ramsey says it. They actually take up the least
amount of space and all the stuff we put with
them is kind of like not real life, you know,
I just would I mean, we lived in a thousand
square feet and there was three of us and two dogs.
So I don't think you have to have a house.

(01:03:47):
There's something that we all think at first, we all
kind of panic.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
I think I don't. I think there should be no
panic is normal? Yeah, because you're about to take one.
It's a lot of responsibility.

Speaker 1 (01:03:59):
Absolutely, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
I don't think, especially if you weren't prepared for it.
Even if you are prepared for, you bad planning for Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
Yeah absolutely yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:04:09):
And then not does she say not wanting it or no, No,
just that I think there was a lot of projected
like qualifications that she doesn't.

Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
Have that unhappy, not happy. I think she should not
be putting so much because I think it's like you
have to be happy, you should be happy. It's like,
well that's what people say, but you might not be
in that moment. Like I remember after I Jace, I
was like, was I happier with Jolie when I was pregnant?

Speaker 3 (01:04:34):
You know?

Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
When I got right, It's like because you're you're trying
to compare and you're seeing what other people are doing,
It's like, just take your experience and just give yourself
some grace.

Speaker 1 (01:04:43):
Yeah, it's too much pressure. Just feel the way that
you feel. Wait till the baby gets here. Yeah, you
were going you know you're going to feel differently once
the baby gets here.

Speaker 5 (01:04:52):
Remember that people did this like in covered wagons. That
was my go to mantra for myself. Like, it doesn't
have to be a million gadgets a big house.

Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
It could.

Speaker 5 (01:05:02):
They really just like pajamas and their mama for a
really long time. Anyways, it's a lot of pressure taking
off me when I could simplify it, simplify.

Speaker 2 (01:05:10):
That in my brain. All right, guys, I don't I
want to come to I get another email. I have
separation anxiety. We'll do this again, I promise.

Speaker 3 (01:05:21):
I need you to.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
Pinky swear's bring it up.

Speaker 1 (01:05:26):
We'll do it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:27):
Everyone love this. So we're gonna at least do at
least once a month. I will stick to that. We
will try our best to at Lisa once a month.
Mommy sign off, Mommy play how I Live Without you?

Speaker 5 (01:05:38):
Now?

Speaker 2 (01:05:40):
Okay, bye, guys, that was fun, Love you, thanks for
having me and mom January signing off