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November 27, 2023 48 mins

Jana is hanging out with Grey's Anatomy star Sarah Drew! She wrote Jana's new Christmas movie and has plenty of stories to share from behind the scenes!
Sarah tells the story of how a devastating career change helped lead her to a longtime passion.
And Sarah opens up about how she got out of a “rut” with her husband.

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heart Radio Podcast.
Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of wind Own
Emotionally Stable today. Uh you feel there? You feel we
would just start with a temperture check. What's funny is that? Hannah?
Sweet Hannah. She texted me yesterday going, Hey, just checking

Anya to see how you're feeling about this week. Listen,
it was way too soon to record. How many days
was it Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, three days post giving
or four because we record on Friday. Yeah, so but
four days post having a C section. The problem is
nobody could have told you differently though. Sure I actually

thought was how are we podcasting? But don't tell her
that because she's convinced she's got this, Which you did?
I mean, you did great. I did until the very
end of the show. Well, I canceled Thursday therapy because
I really that morning that I just I wasn't really ready.
But I also wanted to do the birth story and

have you girls over. So I texted Hannah right before
the episode and I said, hey, girl, I'm just not
feeling good. I cannot do because the therapy one just
felt like this us girls, it is just fun, us
hanging out. We got to chill, tell tell a story.
But then the therapy in the back of my mind
it felt like work, and then I started to get anxiety,
like I'm just not ready yet, and then so I

had canceled that, and then I felt good about that.
But the second I started reading the ads when you
guys left, y'all, this is so embarrassing. But Hannah and
Easton we're on We're on the zoom obviously with us,
and I'm in the middle of reading like butcher Box,
like get Your Year Fore of Fun, and I was like,

I was like, I'm literally crying during the middle of
a butcher Box app but I just go I don't
know why I'm crying. It was so speak because you
came down and Ken are like okay, no, I just
started crying and we both are like okay, fair enough,
and then Kat goes, so, what was it about the
ad that really brought me the tears? And I thought, yeah,
I guess I was for the Free Range Show. Maybe

there was some aspect of it that actually but no, literally,
it was just like get Your Beach was very passionate
about animal rights. I bow it out. I was like
it's okay. Well, and then I didn't I didn't even know.
I just was maybe it felt wired and I just
didn't want to be I don't know that was a

maybe it just gave birth and maybe don't need to
have a reason. But I was just reading it and
then I just started crying. And then Hannah's like that's part.
Hannah's like, it's okay, we can we can just stop,
like you don't, you don't have to, like like, I'm
like covering my face beause I get embarrassed, you know,
moments like that. And then Easton goes, if you could
just stop record on the record. Euston's so tenderhearted, and

I was like, poor people, and I was like, oh
my god, I'm so embarrassed. And then I go downstairs
and I cry even more because I'm like it was
a butcher box ad. There's nothing against the beef for
the eggs, but I show to do it for people
that who have not given birth to a baby. It
is the weirdest thing to me. I mean, I can remember,
I don't know why I'm crying. It's the strangest feeling,

like there's no this time specifically, it has been harder
for me to have those moments because I'm I feel
like I'm such a more well human, like a whole
human that normally if I'm like losing it, I can
go Okay, Kristen, like what is the pit of this?
Like why? What? What? There's no pit? So you just
get your sendless emotion. Fine, anyways, you're feeling good. Yeah,

So today I was like, Okay, now I feel ready
to podcast. We can talk about beef and chicken and
talk about all the beef to wait a week a
week yes, which y'all suggested, and I was like, no,
that'll be fine, totally good. Well, it does feel, I
will say, like some normalcy, you know, like when you
were like why are you jumping on? And I don't
know that I even contributed anything. It just felt good

to feel like a person again quickly, because you know,
it's very your body just goes through a lot. You
feel a little sacrificial for a minute, and it's like,
where do I land in all this besides caregiver? Yeah.
The crying though has uh. Obviously I cried when the
kids left for Virginia and that was a very strange.
That was the first time leaving or the kids leaving

and then having this sweet baby. It was a very weird.
I felt a little guilt little like yeah, like the
mom guilt. I think you had him here with the
baby and you would have probably felt that no matter
what though, oh for you, you you know what I mean. Yeah,
I felt justified those tears. Yeah, and then you know,
uh yeah that, like you said, like that piece is hard.

But it's that weird balance. But then also, I've really
enjoyed this time. I'm just with me, Rowman and Alan,
you know, just that. But then that makes me feel
a little guilty, don't, don't. But it's been really nice
just to have like, okay, some quiet. I'm so glad
to hear you say that. I mean, we talked about
this last week when I was like I wanted to

stay at the hospital because I wanted time just us
and the third baby, and like, don't feel bad about that,
that's okay, Yeah, it just it feels. Ashley Houston texted me,
She's like, hey, girl, checking in, like how you feeling.
And I'm like very peaceful actually with just the three
and just laying there and we don't have to get
up and yeah, and again I missed the bigs more
than anything. But also I'm and I'm enjoying, you know,

this special time with the three of us because I
even said, Allan, we're going to get the kids back
in five days now, like when he comes back, Like
we get the kids. So this is with five days
that we get to really just hunger out. And you're
really not going to get that much no, besides the
week I mean after Christmas, and that's yeah, it's few
and far between. So enjoy it. Don't feel guilt about it. Yeah,

just enjoy it. But like you said, and you can
miss your children, yeah, and I kind of wish they
were here, but also enjoy this time. Just make the
most of it. And they're having a great time too.
I think some of the photo of the kids and
I just I sat like a little cry face heart
like so happy, and I go, man, they're so loved
and they're so happy. Yeah that makes me. Yeah, because

they need that this time as well. Yeah, absolutely well,
and they're getting because also when a new baby is here,
like you know, to see the positive side of it. Also,
like other the older kids do kind of get the
shaft when a new baby's around. There's not much you
can do about it. You've got a crying newborn, that's whatever.
So they actually are getting such one on one time

and they are getting so just the time they probably
wouldn't have had if they were here. For what it's worth. Yea,
yes to that. I have done a few. I don't
know if you did this, have done this too, and
you probably same when when Ramsey came home, but when
the be he does cry too, and the kids are here,
I'm like, he's fine, Like what do you need, Jolie,

what do you need Jason? So I'm like, I'm always
making sure I am tending to them because I don't
want them to feel shafted. Yeah you know. So I
also asked them what they think the baby needs because
they like to try to figure it out. Yeah. Have
them help is huge, especially the older ages when you
have a little bit of a gap. I just made
them so a part of it, like okay, great, can
you do diapers? Can you get the diaper? Can you
get the formula? I just like had them help and

they just felt and they always wanted to be there
and help, and it was great. Jolie wants to help,
but because she had that stomach book, I'm just like,
wait one more week, honey. Well yeah, and Jason's just
like always passes him and goes, oh, you're so cute,
but then wants nothing else to do. So I'm like,
that's okay. Yeah. Well, Leggie's a little aggressive lover, which

I is probably genetic, but it gets a little like
Lenny and the Rabbits with her. So I'm like a
little calm, you know, like a little less because he's like,
I'm all right, but about me, how are you girls? Well? Wed? Well,

I think it's I think it's worth noting since we're
talking about new babies and all the things we are
starting to see a little bit, and I didn't want to.
I'm very I run very tight defense for our little
peace of the world, my little corner of the world.
I don't like people's opinions a lot. I don't like
people saying, oh, you know, he's going to be like this,
or they're going to be like that. I just you

don't like furry things. I don't. I don't like people
telling me that, like, somebody's going to be this way, right,
And so I just let our experience unfold as it will.
Sure we are starting to I'm starting to see the
middle child moment with Legend, which I had strong Like,

I never said it wasn't going to happen to us,
but I have been so intentional about it that I
was kind of praying it wouldn't happen. Also, Legend the
only boy, and he is a very alpha personality too,
so without anything, he demands a certain amount of attention.
I think in the long run, having a new baby
is great for him because he needs someone he can

lead and it's going to be really special to him.
Right now, we are in a really interesting season. I'm
watching a few things happen like he did. Start to
I don't. I always am careful about what I share
with him too, because I don't want him like later
thirty years listening to wind down more than our husbands
do and able to like check back in. But like

you know, there were some accidents happening. There's some really
just kind of like lousy choices, Like yesterday an entire
bottle of essential oil, which is not inexpensive, was dumped
all over my bedroom. Smells like a dream in there. However,
just like you know, I can just tell we're needing
a certain different type of attention and when he asks
for it in his non asking way. It's hard to

like get compassionate in the moment, right cleaning a boil
and all the things. That's just prime examples. But we're
in the thick of middle kid right now. Well so
you say that, and I was. I told this to
you off air, But when you had spoken about how
Legend was acting a little middle child, in my mind,
I thought, well, Jason isn't going to do that. He's

i know, not at all, like we're good, perfect, And
then yeah, and then two days in, you know, he's
looking for more attention by the loud you know, uh
singing that he's doing that. He never sings in the
in This is My Life in the bathroom, I'm glad
he's singing, but I also know he's trying to look

for attention the chorus. He's burping at the table very loudly,
and usually he doesn't do that. If he burps, he
always has excuse me. But his burps are now exaggerated
and so, and then there's that, and then so I'm
just I'm trying to love on him in certain ways
and talk to him, but I can also see, Okay,

I look like I'm following. Now you're lead and going.
All right, Christen, there was something to this. Yeah, it's
strange because I feel like company morel as a whole
is at an all time high. Like we all like her.
I'm so thankful We've had mutual friends that have had
really tough experiences with one of the big kids not
liking the baby at all, oh and very vocal about it,
and so I'm so thankful that's not the case. And
it does. It has been harder. Presen's been traveling a lot,

so by myself pretty often, and I think, like I
feel kind of divided. And as she gets older, she
needs more. She's awake longer and she needs more attention,
and she's rolling and trying to scoot, and so I
can't just like put her somewhere and then give him
the attention. So we're just learning altogether right now. Well,
I think it's such a balance for us. We really

went through it more when Ramsey was more all over
the place, not really a newborn newborn stage. Everyone wanted
to help. But then when she was all over the
place and you were like making her sure she doesn't
die every second, you know, that's when we kind of
had more of it. But I think it's such a
bad balance to give them one on one time but
then also not give into that like don't worry, I'm

I'm not doing anything with the baby like I'm here.
It's just such a balance because they have to learn
that it is now three. You do have to you
can't be everywhere. A mom cannot do everything at once,
you know. So it's like such a balance of really
showing them that. But I know it's hard for you
because you don't president is in home a lot. But
I do think it's also important to do the one

on one stuff. Yeah, Like a the other day, sorry
it's called them Alan Jayce was like, Mommy, will you
played legs with me? And I'm like yes, because that
was one on one time. Julie was at her friends
and so and I just you know, gave the baby
Alan and the little rocker thing and sat up there
and played legos and that. And I think it was
doctor Amon that he said, spend ten minutes alone each

day with the kids something that they want to do
for ten minutes, and that's going to be something that
they're going to remember and that helps that relationship too.
So That's been something I've always thought about as well.
We part of like when the baby is just like
there and I can see Leggie out of the corner
of my eye, I'll say, like, are you looking for Legend?
Where is he? I bet he's looking for you? And
then he's like, I'm right here, and I'm like, well,

thank goodness. We were just wondering were you know, just
trying to like validate, and I think they all feel
it to a certain extent. They all are, and it's
so normal and you're gonna mess up and you're gonna yeah,
you know what I mean. And it's just we're doing all.
We're all done the best we can do. I have
any Grays Anatomy fans here, Yes, I knew Kat was,
of course I am. I've watched. I stopped the twentieth season.

I don't know, I was like twenty one maybe, Yeah,
I watched a lot of it, and uh, but we're
I'm really excited to have Sarah Drew come on the show.
So she's obviously she's been a Madman, Glee, uh, everything,
but she's best known as her part in Grey's Anatomy,
and she's just she also, which I didn't find out

until way later, but she wrote, so I have a
movie coming out on Lifetime December ninth, she wrote a
Cowboy Christmas romance. So I'm excited to talk to her
about that too. You uh, but let's get her on.

I feel like I know you well obviously. I I
I know of you. I've watched you on Grades Anatomy
million years, like for for so many years. And then
Ryan McPartland talks about you all the time, and Brian
and Herzlinger. I'm just like, I feel like Margaret, I know,
I'm like, I just am like I feel like, you know,

kind of a stalker psycho. But I'm like, I like,
I know so much of her, and I just feel
like we're friends. And I don't even know you. But Hi, well, Hi,
and girl. I watched every single take on all the dailies,
and so I really, oh, one hundred percent. I was
shooting movie in Canada when you were shooting in Arizona,
and so I would get the dailies every night. I

would come home from shooting and I would sit in
my bathtub because that's what I do when I'm on
set shooting. I have to have a bathtub because that's
like my wine down time, and I'd have my iPad
and I would be watching your gorgeous, beautiful, talented face
and you you were so good in this. You are
so good in this. I could not have asked for

anyone else. It was such beautiful work. I hope you
have you seen it. I hope you're so proud of it.
So I actually haven't watched it yet. I've only you know,
I would obviously did the ADR and I've seen little
pieces of it. It's it's honestly okay. So when I
got the script and I read or I got I'm like,

it said untitled. What was it untitled? Would you have?
There were so many names. I named it Cowboy Christmas,
but then it became Christmas on the Ranch, and then
it became a cowboy Christmas Romance. So it's gone to
many iterations. But when I got it, and this is
not against you at all, but as you probably know
this too, and you get I'm like, oh, I'm not
a Christmas movie. I'm like, I can't. We've done just

like we've done so many yeah Christmas in Mississippi, Tennessee, Michigan,
just like I've got it in every state. So I'm
just like, Okay, here's another one, and I'm like, this
is gonna be the same thing. And I'm reading it
and I'm going, this is nothing like any Christmas. I'm like,

you barely mention the word Christmas. There's no gingerbread bake off,
there's no festival that town. That's going to hell. And
then you got to save it. Like the only thing
was like hey, coming back and seeing you know Adam
or his character. And but I'm reading it and I'm like,
I'm crying when I read it. And so I back

to my agent and I was like, this is nothing.
I mean, I was I don't even know how this
is a Christmas movie. This is so good. I'm like,
it's so good, and I'm like I'm literally reading the
script crying and I was like a blown Oh I
was blown away. And so I was like, I'm doing
this movie. Oh, I have to do this movie. Yeah,
because it was so different. It's not and that's everyone's like, well,

I don't understand. It's on Lifetime ago. Yeah, but this
is nothing like any of the other ones. No, it's
so different. I thank you so much for saying all
of that. I the interesting. You know. I've done a
lot of these Christmas movies too, and they're so sweet
and fun, but I also like in it's the same
for me, real and real true holiday times, for real,

true family dynamics. It's always stressful and heightened. There's drama
that comes out, and we never explore that stuff in
the Christmas movies. It's always just about the cozy feelings,
and those cozy feelings happen, but it's all mixed up
with real family stuff and identity stuff and relationship stuff.

But I'm yelling at Bruce's Tom and my dad, Bruce
Thomas's character, I'm like, oh, this is like meat, you know,
like something to like grab onto, Like this is so cool.
I get to like yell at my dad like you
weren't there. I'm like, that's everything I wanted to like
say in one of those movies. You know. But yeah,
it's like you gave that, You gave it bones. Ah,
thank you for saying that, and thank you for just
owning it so amazingly well and diving so fully in

like you you you brought such power to all of
those scenes. That scene with you and Bruce is one
of my favorites. In the whole movie when you finally
have that face off and then he and it's like,
you guys are just still, You're not. There's no moving around,
there's no hoopla Christmas hoopla. It's just two people really

wanting to connect and finally saying all of the things
that need to be said, and like there's a beautiful
like redemption and you guys played it so well. I
got goosebumps in my back watching for saying that. That
was the one of the scenes where uh so I
was pregnant obviously in the movie, yes, and so that

was these words. It was hard because I felt sick
and that scene I was so bummed because I felt
I had just like gotten sick right before that scene,
and so I was just kind of felt a little.
I was like, no, it was like like the most
important scene of the freaking movie. So but I think, yeah,
you were talk to Jake and I'm like, all right,
well we can, we can. I like the top half

hated the bottom, like the bottom of the second take it,
so I'm like, oh, we I was like, you know,
when you're just those scenes are tough to yes, but no,
but you totally but by the way like you'd be
nauseous in a moment like that, like you were able
to fully use all of that. It's so, it's so good.
It's so good, and he Jake or the directors is

so great. And but the last week of filming that
he's like, please don't take this the wrong way. He's like,
but uh, you're gonna have to suck in just a
little bit now. I was not pregnant that I would
have obviously, I don't think you could ever gottens no
because I'm double shanks and really like I will because
I popped that last week of filming. But I'm like,

this is the only time you can ever say that
to an actual hook. Totally. Yeah. Wait, I can't wait
to watch it and see if I can tell you
can I think I look, you're looking at you're like
hunting for it. Of course you are, but but I
feel like, y'all hit it really really well. Thank you, Sarah.
You you have like, okay, so you have a really

big career before this epic Christmas movie. And we are
all excited for December ninth on Lifetime to watch Jana
star in this cowboy Christmas Room. Amazing. That's right, So
you have this really wild, really wild and wide resume
of show business that started. Are you a Jersey kid

or Rhode Island now in New York? I grew up
on Long Island, Okay, long area, Yeah, an island comes
to Jerseys So you're in the right place. Yeah, but
we all know East Coast. That does matter. We can
just be tossing around islands and putting people in places
has left the zoom. Yeah, so not great geography. Super

love you. So then you started in theater first, correct,
and that took off like a wild ride for you.
That was crazy and amazing. And then agents came knocking
because you're incredible. Okay, so I'll just stay here forever.
I need your I need your brush over here. I'm
a little shiny, so will you Okay, So tell me

a little bit about how you make this, how you
go from because you're not writing a lot of things,
which has got to be pretty cool. And I feel like,
as I'm not an actress by any means obviously, but
I feel like for people like Jana that are actually,
you know, like acting these movies out, it's gotta they've
got to be able to feel that in those scripts.
That someone that has played the other side of that

is really looking out for them or identifying in certain areas.
So tell me how you go, Well, just tell me everything,
but tell me how you go from I am theater,
I'm acting, I'm doing Gray's Anatomy, and these are big,
big things in projects you're doing, and now you're writing
a lot. Does that feel more comfortable? Does it feel
like it's on brand or just like, of course very organic.

So thank you for that question. That's it's so fun
because it's just firing up different parts of my brain
and different parts of my creative expression. And I got
a little taste of the creative process when I produced.
I was an executive producer on a movie I did
Like in twenty eighteen, and I got obsessed with all

of the how the sausage is made and all the
creative pieces of it. I was tracking every character's emotional
journey so that I could be like, answer a question
or you know, help anybody in the journey I was helping.
I rewrote some of the scenes for that movie because
I was like, I'm saying it out loud and the
words don't make sense in a kind way. I just

mean I just mean, like in the sometimes when you're
a writer and you're not an actor, you haven't put
it to the test. You haven't said the thing out loud,
you haven't tracked this beat to this beat to this
beat to know whether it's making sense in your brain right.
But I've been doing that my whole life. I've been
acting my whole life, And so when and all during
Gray's Anatomy, I was I had a really beautiful collaborative

relationship with the writers where it was like they were
very open to suggestion, to pitches, if anything didn't feel
exactly authentic to who you were in that moment as
a character, whatever, you go and you hash it out
and you talk about it. So I had a lot
of practice of like, I know where you're going in
this scene. I think we can get there if I
say it like this, or I think there's one little

piece that's missing between point A and points B for
me to make that whole emotional arc and journey. So
I've always been in my career thinking through it and
have read it, like you, Jenna, a billion scripts, and
you know which ones are great, you know which roles
you want to play, and you know which ones are
like just surfacey cookie cutter, you know you can tell.

And so for me, whenever I'm deciding to do a project,
it's always about the meat of it, like where does
this character get to have an arc? Does this character
get to have a journey? So it wound up. So
my first one that I wrote, I had just come
back from shooting the movie with Ryan McPartland Who's the Best,
The Best, Best, Best Best, with Ryan and Brian and

Stephen Margaret. We had just done Twinkle All the Way
and we were all on set. We had the best time,
and we were all just like geeking out over creativity,
and they really Ryan really inspired me to start thinking
about my own stories. So I went home and came
up with like a pitch and presented the pitch to set,
Stephan Margaret and they were like, and I was like,

we should probably hire a writer, and they're like, or
you should buy final draft and write it yourself, because
you've already clearly you've just told us the entire world
and we see it as if we're living in it
right now, Like there's no other you should write it.
Just go got buy final draft and write it. And
I needed that kick in the pants from those women,
because I would not have done it if they hadn't

told me to. And I wrote it and then we
wound up selling it to Lifetime, so we made that
last year, and then I was just like and then
I went and shot a Western last fall, and I
fell in love with Jesse Bell and his whole family. Sanna,
yes they were. They were my wranglers on my western.
And I had so many conversations like Abby is based

on Abby? Yeah yeah? And she so his daughter horse
wrangler's daughter was the girl who plays Abby. Was her
like stunt rider? Oh yeah? She was on set? And
I and I'd had all these conversations with Jesse and
his son partner, and some of the dinner table conversations
came straight out of conversations I had with partner about

about like training horses. So I was like, Okay, how
about let's uh, let's jump into this world a little
bit because I'm obsessed with this world. Let's sprinkle a
little Christmas in. Let's like put some roots down in
let me write a character I would want to take
a journey on as an actor, and let me make
sure as I'm writing it that every moment makes sense

to the next, to the next, to the next. And
that's kind of so it ended up being sorry, it
is a very long winded answer. No, I do. I
want it all. I want all of it. I'm in it.
The story. Yeah, you actually she knows the stories. We
don't know all the stories, partner Navvy and all the things.
You better tell us everything. That family is magic, just magic. Yeah. So,

and I was so thrilled that once once I like
reached out to Autumn and she was like, well, I
think we might shoot in Arizona. Uh. And I was like,
oh my gosh, Jesse Bell. You have to you have
to reach out to Jesse Bell, like that's who these
characters are based on. Okay, I didn't know that. That's
really cool. Yeah. I do think it's incredible though, that
you're giving the human experience mixed in with this like

even and I haven't seen the movie, but just the
honesty of like it isn't always Christmas and wonderful and
because it's not quite honestly, Sarah Drew No, especially, it's like, yeah,
it's like layered and it's human and there's relationships and
and sometimes I love a good Christmas, like give it
to me, you know, like a beautiful let's decorate cookies,

but also I need some real raw honesty because that's
not my life. She also wrote a very uh it's
the first Christmas movie that has a sex scene. Oh yeah,
well look at you just said give it to me,
And I was like, you mean, Adamson, I'll give you.
But I was like, I'm also but I read out
this is gonna be interesting. I'm like, how are we

gonna to do this with the baby belly? And so
we're on this spoiler alert or spoiler alert. He lays
me down on some hay and then I'm like and
then we you know, and then you what you know?
And then uh, you know. Obviously it's still a lifetime

and still family. Yeah, but it was pushing limits there too.
But when we when they cut and then the next
morning out take, I was like, we made a baby
right that scene, I mean, it's it all came out
so beautifully, but especially the scene in the kitchen I

had written into the stage directions. He pulls her up
onto the counter, he shoves things off the table. No,
I put it all in there. So I was like,
don't take the steam and the sex away from me,
I wrote it on purpose. Well, this is not like

a Christmas. I'm like, and al I's like, how's the script?
Like that's great a Christmas. A little add and ho
ho ho that never hurt anybody. We all need a
little and now we're talking real life. But yeah, I mean,
and I was I was like, well, that's why I
kept saying, this is nothing like anything. And I was
actually surprised at Lifetime but they didn't cut anything. I

was so happy that they really left it all in there.
I like, I I Tiama, Jeanie is amazing and she
was just like, give it all to me. I want
all of it. Yes, And I just I was so
thrilled that she said yes to all of it. I
would not have been at that scene just got cut.
Well that that is where I was again. I love

Lifetime so much and I'm so thankful for them and
they're fantastic and what they've done and helped me with.
But when I also knew that they picked it up,
I was like, oh, I hope they don't cut anything,
because so special, like all of it, you know, every
piece that needs to be in there that made that
script why I want to do it because you know
people that don't know they obviously when they acquire a movie,

then they go in and they put they give the
director and editors and their notes, right, no notes, that's awesome. Yeah.
So yeah, they were just like, yes, can I ask

you about Grays really fast? Sure? Okay? So what was
the what was that? So we do sad part of
the day, happy part of the day, but what's it
to pit in a peak? A peak? Okay? So what
was the pee pit of Grays? And what was the peak?
You know, it's such a great question. And my pit
and peak are this are one and the same. And
it was and it's actually been the thing that has

Like someone asked me recently, what's the engine that drives
your life? And for me, it's about holding pain and
hope together at the same time, intertwined and all. And
my engine is looking for the beauty and the joy
in the pain. So for me, when I was written

off the show, it came as a total shock and
it was very, very devastating, Like I was blindsided by it.
It didn't make any sense to me. And as I
watch a viewer, I agree, and honestly that's when I
stopped watching because I it did not make sense at all,
like literally, and I'm like, well, no, they have to
be to get like what, like, what are you doing?

I did not understand that at all. So sorry. That
was the viewer anger too, And I think you are
echoing what everybody was echoing. I mean, like nobody understood it.
It was so confusing, which is why I say that
it was so painful, but like piercingly joyful because because
I had another couple of weeks still on the show

after knowing that I was going, and the outpouring of
love from the fans. The fans, yes, I mean they
got a plane to fly over the studio with a
banner saying we love you, Sarah Drew and Jessica Capshaw
like but you know, so the fan outpouring of love

was bananas. But even more for my heart, it was
my crew and my cast. They put together these boxes
for us on our last day. Everybody had written a
letter to us, and I was getting and I was
having crew members come up to me to be like,
there was this one moment five years ago when we
had this conversation. It meant so much to me and

I want to say thank you. You know, before you
go right. And if I had stayed on the show
forever and I'd left when everybody else did, I would
not have experienced the visceral love bomb that was the experience. So,
I mean, I remember even when and Betsy called me
just to tell me they love me and you know,

wish me the best or whatever. But aren't they the
ones that also wrote you. No, it was a different
it was a different showrunner at that point in that choice. Yeah, okay,
but when they called me just to say we love
you and you know, best of luck and everything, and
it was still very fresh and very wrong. It was
like the day after whatever. I was so overcome with
how loved I was on that set that all I

could do was weep. I was literally just weeping on
the phone with joy, like thanking them for the opportunity
they'd given me to be a part of this family
and be a part of this legacy, Like that's the end.
That's truly the only thing I was feeling. I was overcome.
So you talk about like highs and lows, it was
it felt so sad. I was hurt so much. I've

never been fired or written off of anything, or I'm
such a hard worker. I know my value, I know
I'm good at what I do, so it hurts so bad.
And then it also I was so intensely loved in
it that I wouldn't trade any of it for the world.
I'm so glad I had it together. And then and
then that reality of holding those two things pain and

joy is just that's what life is. We are just
in that all the time. That is the journey and
the drive and the engine that I am just on
all the time. Is Okay, this is painful. I'm feeling it,
I'm looking at it, I'm experiencing it. Where do I
find the glory in it? Like I'm a huntress for
the glory right now? I hear the beauty and for

the joy, and I love that piece. I think when
I'm listening to that, I go to the place where,
yes I could. I love the end and all that.
I also want to know the why in it too,
And so though I appreciate the end, I would go,
but why, Like I just want to know why you
chose to do that, Like did you have that kind

of conversation afterwards or did you just let it kind
of go? I never really got a real why, and
I kind of had to more in that and let
it go. I mean, I got a why, but I
I'm not. I don't. It was just like, we don't
really we put you through so much that we don't
know what else to write for you. And I'm like,
but you've been able to do that for everybody else,
so I don't. And You're like, and I'll write it myself.

Actually i'll write it better. Yeah, I'll show you. But
but my why, my the why actually that I've been
answering over the last five years is the why is
so that I could go and expand in the ways
I've been expanding as a creator, as a producer, as
a writer. I'm now I'm about to go direct to

radio play and like all of these things that I'm
entering into, it was like it was time. I didn't
know that it was time. But that's where my my
faith comes in to play in that, because I wouldn't
have left on my own volition. The money's too good,
it's too stable of a job, family, you know, Like,
I wouldn't have gone. And I loved it there. I mean,

that's the other thing. Was a beautiful time and experience,
so I wouldn't have gone. But if I hadn't gone,
I wouldn't be writing, I wouldn't be producing, I wouldn't
be activating my brain and my heart on all these
other layers and levels. That is like fed my soul
and brought me so much joy, And that, to me
is the why. That's the why. The why is that

God was like, it's time for you to go over here,
and I know it's gonna be painful, but you're gonna
get it later and you can't do it for yourself,
so I'm gonna do it right. Yeah. Yeah, And you
were in a comfortable place. You just sit in that
comfort sometimes and sometimes it takes God to take us
out of that to say, okay, this is what I need.
I mean, it was what nine years of your life.
I was on the show for nine years. Yeah, I

mean that is in that industry specifically. Yeah, that's like
it's crazy, that's dog years. I got to have both
my babies on that show where they took such good
care of me, and you know, it's like a matriarchy
were there, right, So like I kept working. I never
you know, missed a paycheck. I got to and they

worked it. They did that like everybody says, if you
want to have a baby, go get on the show.
On the show's that's right because it was a scandal.
Carry Yeah, she was also compliment right now. Yeah, it's
just such a compliment. I feel like, how long have

you been married for? Twenty one years? Oh? Wow? Okay, yes,
that's my that's yeah. That's also because wind down, we
always talk a lot about relationships, So what has been
what's been the peach of that? Like within the hardest
piece and then you know how obviously you know your
faith I'm sure plays a big piece in that too,
but yeah, so probably we had a really dark season

seven years into our relationship, about five years into a
ranch that Evan was terrible for us here, as Janna
likes to say, well, I think for us it was
we had always been long distance all through dating and
even in the first like five years of our marriage,
like crazy, like we we would always come together, but

we would be he was working here, and then I
was working there, and then we would come together part
of every week and then go our separate ways. Again.
It was just we never were living and working in
the same space and hadn't yet until we moved to
la and planted down in la and then we were like, oh,
there's some shit we got to work out because you're
able to like get the space and ignore it and

then and then once you're face to face with it,
you're like, there's a lot of stuff. And for us,
it was all about communication. It was learning the script
of like, when you did this one thing, it made
me feel this way. What I'm hearing from you is
that when I did this one thing, it made you
feel that way. Is that correct? Yes, that is correct.
That is how you validating my feelings in this moment. Okay,

I'm so sorry for making you feel that way so much.
I appreciate the apology. Can I now explain to you
what I meant when I said that thing? It? Can
I explain to you why I want to lose my mind?
Because yeah, yes. And the funny thing is it's the
weirdest little script and it's the thing that completely made

our marriage make sense. We were just love our love language.
We were missing each other entirely. I did not could
not receive it from him, even though he was giving it.
He was piling it onto me, but in a language
I didn't understand. And then he wouldn't give the thing
that I did understand to me, and so I just
felt unloved and he felt unheard and he felt like

I was accusing him all the time. And we just
had to learn the script to be like, oh, when
you did that thing, you were actually trying to enter
into my world, tell me what to do? Interesting, you know?
And so and I also believe that was like it
was like a god thing. I also, I mean, another
really big thing in my marriage was that I had

like a liar living inside of me telling me I
wish all the time. I had a lot of shame
and a lot of like you're bad, You're just not good,
And I had the script in my head that was
like my husband, I was very charming when we dated.
He didn't know what he was getting himself into. And

now that he really knows me and he's seen all
my ship, he's too good of a man to leave me.
But it's like he's living with an invalid wife. Well,
that's not fair to the girl that I'm talking to.
No no, And I remember saying all that out loud
in therapy and our counselor being like, Peter, how do
you receive that he's like, I don't. I just love

this woman so much. I don't. I don't know. I
don't know what to do. And he's like, I think
you got a liar living inside you. You You got to
tell that liar to shut them up. Yeah, yeah, that's amazing.
Yeah yeah. And I was like, well how do I
do that? And I remember I had a lot like
an army of women praying for me because I was like,

I don't know how to reprogram my brain to look
at myself the way God looks at me and the
way my husband looks at me, because all I see
is like on top of ship that was probably old
childhood stuff or teens or whatever. Yeah, that just or
old boyfriends or whoever, and twisted theology stuff sometimes, like
sometimes it's interesting sometimes that's the theology stuff creeps in

in a way that affected me but didn't affect my brother,
just because of the way that we received messaging, you know,
and by nobody and nobody's fault. Just I'm pre wired
predisposed to think everything is my fault, you know, so
and I and it's weird. It's like not something my
parents modeled. I don't know where it came from. My

brother doesn't experience it, but but I had to. I
had to really work on that. And I I remember
this one morning waking up in our home and I've
been praying about this, like liar, who's telling me that
I'm not valuable and not worthy? And my husband comes
into the kitchen and he looks at me and he goes, morning, honey,

I love you. And I felt this like fire from
my toes all the way up my whole body to
the top of my head. I felt it in every
cell of my body. And all I could think was
I believe you. And it was just like I'm somebody's

favorite person forever. He chooses me daily and he does
love me. He's not just saying it. It's real. And
that for me was a god thing. That was just
like a that was a changing of my heart that
needed to happen. So it was the communication and it
was the self worth, so again darkest, but also they

all come in pairs. To me, it was also the
most brilliant moment of entering into a new journey and
a new chapter of my marriage and my relationship. And
that was before we had kids, and now we have
these two kids, and we have this life and I
and we know how to talk to each other, and
we know how to show each other our love and

and we're I just feel like we're kind of unshakable
at this point after going through that. So that would
be my peak as well. No, I love that, and yeah,
now twenty years, dang, girl'll keep going. I love it.
That's beautiful. I do think though, don't would you agree that?
And I think we're kind of all similar to like
when you talk about things all being your fault. I

wonder sometimes I've learned in this journey I've been on
that if I take it on, if it's my fault,
then I can go ahead and get it fixed too,
because if I'm waiting for someone else to own it, well,
and we all know how that plays out, Yeah, that
could be exhausting. So if we just take it, we'll
just go ahead and take that and we can fix it. Yep.
But then we're just taking on a bunch of stuff
that's not even ours to happen. It's not even ours exactly,

it's not my responsibility, and it's not even real. It's
not even real, Like that's the thing. It's like a
false reality of Okay, Well, maybe I can get ahead
of a thing. I mean, part of it is also
just the thought of hurting someone is my worst nightmare.
I'm so. I'm such a people pleaser. I hate conflict

more than anything, and I want people to feel seen
and known and loved when they're in my presence. It's
very important to me. And if someone is hurt by
something I've done, I spin in my brain to try
to get ahead of it so that I can pre apologize,
just in case maybe I did something's head, would you

really like to come down? I just had the same
discussion as I didn't want to. I didn't need to,
like I didn't know, because we never intend to ever.
We never want people to hurt, and that was not
my intention that it was. You know, it's like the
ripple effect of wanting to. I don't wanna say people please,

but just you want people to feel loved and seen
and heard and anything like I didn't need to like that.
I hope you know I take it like that. I
would never because I want you to be happy. And
so we also live in a very like living in
offense society. So for people like us, the big feelers,
the big huggers, the big Oh, we just want to
love on you and like swaddle you and carry you around.
Like it's extra tricky for our people right now because

everyone's got a chip on their shoulder, not everyone some
version of you Like that's not like you're that's not
it at all, like that I would never intended to
do that or hurt like no, right, And so then
and then you just feel terrible because you're like, that's
not who I am, and they think that this this
is who I am, and that's that. But that's also
part Like that was honestly what happened in my marriage too.

It was like I would accuse and he was like,
but that's not who I am. You're saying something that
that's like not my identity. I didn't intend. Like my
husband would never want to hurt a fly, and he doesn't.
He's like such a good man, he's such a sweet
good man and like never would intentionally hurt anyone. But
but he doesn't think about he's not thinking nine steps

ahead like I am. He's just living his life in
peace and being who he is. You know, I got
a way to live. What is that you spinning ahead
of the game. And then one because like the thought
of being surprised with a you hurt me? Oh yeah,
oh god, I was walking around with an I'm sorry

shirt on all of the time. We've got it. Well, Sarah,
thank you so much for coming on. Please let us
know whenever you're in Nashville, because you are welcome here.
I was just in Nashville. I know, was it last
week because she was busy? She had a baby? Oh
of course, yes, you having a baby last week. I

had him last week. How is he? He's amazing. He's
a little squash. He love him. Actually, the most handsome
baby I've ever seen. And I have a son. He's
a prince. I mean, look at his parents, can you?
I mean, well, next time you're in Nashville, let us know, please,
And thank you for coming on and sharing all of it.

Thanks for writing an amazing script and we can't wait
to follow him with everything. Thank you, guys. So girl,
Sarah's nice to meet you. I need to know how
old Sarah Drew is because she literally looks like she's thirty. Beautiful. Yeah,
I think I think she's our age. She's been married
for twenty one years. Trying to do the math, and
I'm like it doesn't add up, add up to your face.

How does it feel to know that Kepner was in
her bathtub watching you in a movie twenty three? I
was like, I love you. I love it. Yeah, I
loved her on the show, so I mean, I was like,
that's just so cool. And I'm like, thanks, girl, so cool.
And now I'm like, sh she saw that. Those some

of those things you're probably going through. Good you pre
apologize for anything, well, because that one scene was I
was so bummed because it was the scene where I'm
telling Bruce Thomas's character, I'm like, you were You've never
seen me, Dad, You've never And that's the big emotional
scene that I cried. And when I was reading the script,
but I can't wait, and then I was second, I

was like, oh, but I did get the top in
the end. I just like to have one full pass
where it's like perfectionism coming in. I am. But I
love you, guys, I love you so much. This was fine,
good job, this was good. Next week
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