All Episodes

April 15, 2019 78 mins

Jana and Mike learn the power of writing their own love letters when they hang out with Jeremy and Audrey Roloff from Little People, Big World. They share some valuable lessons they’ve picked up on how to plan your marriage to be a success. 

Meanwhile, to talk about an example of plans that AREN’T a success, Seth Crossno, a survivor of the Fyre Festival stops by. He tells us what REALLY went down on that island and what he’s doing to make sure it never happens again. 

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Wind Down with Jane Kramer and I Heart Radio podcast.
Guys are nanny quit Ah? Wait a while, Well, this
is really funny and this isn't a spot. I don't
even know if this is a spot, but so I've
been using care dot com. So on the way here,

we'll see we're trying to find a nanny here, which
one ended up finding one here um for the short
term time that we're in Los Angeles, but we're also
looking for a nanny in Nashville. And I just don't
understand some of these girls that post pictures on care
dot com because I'm like, don't you know the females hiring.
It's like he's I'm laughing in the car and he's like,

why are you laughing? I said, because I don't understand
some of these girls profile pictures because the wives are hiring,
Like I don't. I don't see a guy going on
care dot com and going through the nannies. And maybe
they do, and that's that's awesome, but you know, I
personally am doing it and I'm laughing because this one
photo is like, Hi, I'm twenty two years old, the knife,
pricky boobs, Like, don't don't post the perky boot photo, like,

you're not going to be hired. I'm not hiring you.
So I just said no thanks. And I'm not saying
post an ugly photo. I'm just saying, don't post if
you're if you're young, if you're younger than twenty, I
don't know the part. You should dress for the part.
So to the girls out there that are on care
dot com, I wouldn't put your Instagram write the same

profile picture as your Instagram as your dot com picture. Yeah,
because I'm like, no, I'm not gonna hire you. Sorry.
Not that I don't trust my husband, not that I
don't trust you, know whatever. I just I well, I'll
say this. I just think it's not smart for I mean,
you look at some of these nannies and I'm like, well,
you kind of ask for it. She's kind of hot,

you know what I mean. You're in close quarters, not
saying that Ben Affleck was wrong, but you look at
the nanny and I'm like, well, she's really cute. Playing
with fire. You're playing with fire. It's like bringing wrong
me into a tiger cage, isn't it? Like why do it?
Why bother? There's plenty and now there's another one to um,
look at look at those nanny's they were they were

actually they were cute and then more spent time together.
They're even cut and their wives they're mad at their wives,
but they're not mad at the nanny. So they're gonna
be nice, you know, and they're gonna like the nanny.
I think the same thing goes for like assistance or oh,
a friend of ours in Nashville, like his assistant. It
was a beautiful young woman and he ended up getting

He had a he had a beautiful wife and like
three kids. And and even with the first time we
met her, oh, I was like everyone, we're with Jane
and her band and we're all just kind of like,
that's probably not a good idea. And if you want
to diet, don't bring a chocolate cake into the house
right now. And here's the deal. And I want to
say this because I know Brittany or one of our

former nanny's listens to the show. It's not that Brittany
wasn't cute, because I think, Brittany, you're you're so cute.
There's a different thing that women girls put off, Like,
I mean, Brittany was like, how would you describe Brittany.
I mean, she's so cute, but she doesn't put off
the I mean, she's one of us that like she

was part of the family, and like she's one of
the guys like her hang and she's like one of
the guys totally, but not in a way where I
feel like some of these girls, maybe some of those nanties,
like the ben Afflecks and the Gavin Rossdell's nannies, they
put off more of a sexier vibe. And I just
think that, like Mark said, it's putting meat into the cage.
And what meat into the cage? I put meat into

the tiger cage. Yeah, I'm very sure that works, but
it just seems like, why bother, why why even put
that temptation out there? Right, Let's focus on each other
and Alice from Brady Bunch of vibe right, Yeah, So,
I mean I'm going for the more a d percent percent.
I love that you had to reference a photo like
I I did watch The Brady Bunch very young, and

certainly references would you ever would you ever hire a manny? Well?
I asked you about that one guy. I said, what
about this guy, Timothy? Yeah? Well, he also looked like
he he has some issues. But well, I would hire
a guy. I would hire I would probably, I'd be honestly,
I'd I'd rather hire a gay man. Over for not

saying that I would be tempted. But no, and that's
not that wouldn't even be my reason for not hiring
a guy. It wouldn't be that. It's just I think
there's still something. There's just some jobs in this world
that are just women are better suited for. No, I'm no,
I'm not saying it's from a biological standpoint of women
are naturally more nurturing, so it's just a softer approach,

you know, more like it's just it's just your human nature.
So I just feel like it's a safer bet over.
And I feel like when it comes to that stuff,
women are able to You're able to kind of feel
their energy. Uh you youer than your men. It's funny though,
I was starting to read reviews though about some of
the girls because I've narrowed it down to a couple
of girls in Nashville, and they're all ones a little young.

I really want to go older. I like or I
like the fifty year between forty and fifty. I like
that range because they're not they don't care about Instagram,
they don't care like this is their job. They're not
looking to just they don't have a lot of social plans.
And also they probably raised their own kids exactly, So
I mean I I leaned towards that. But then I
also like, again, I like the way Brittany was like,

let's go to the zoo and let's do this. And
I'm like, you have so much more energy than me,
which I like in a younger person because I see
that a lot of younger people do that. But here's
the energy count. Younger people. You can gotta like workhorse,
you can kind of work them a little bit more,
you know what I mean. They're not Jake that you
gotta work them. They gotta earn their stripes. Yeah. But
so I was reading some of the reviews and some
of the girls, and this one girl which I liked

and then end up saying no to one of the
reviews said that she was she was playing the parents
against each other, and ended up listen to this, like,
no joke on care they were she was playing them
against each other. And now they like so much so
that they're divorced and they her whole intent was to

get into the father's life. Like she was so manipulative
that she made the guy think that his wife was crazy,
and then they ended up like cooking up this is
a review a review the wife, Oh my god, Yeah,
I was reading this like this is some choicing stuff
on care dot com. Did great laundry. She actually only

had one because I was like, why did she have
one star? This isn't good, and then I said nope, no, thanks,
don't need you in the house. I will say about
around that, though. I think for that to happen, the
husband wife clearly didn't have very good communication. Yeah, because
I feel like if someone like we hired somebody and
they try to do that with us, we come to
each other, they'll be like, hey, so I was saying,

you said this, you're doing this this way, and you'd
be like, what, no, I don't we know how we're
doing now. I didn't do that, And we'd be like okay,
like we we would smell blood in the water, like
pretty quick back, all right, this isn't I hope so
we would because we talk about I'm just having a
lot of anxiety because we have a lot of trips
coming up. We're going to Scotland. We have our podcast tour, which,
by the way, um is in May, so you guys

get your tickets. Boston, Virginia, New York. But I'm scared
because we have this new nanny coming in and I've
just heard all the horror stories and I'm she seems great.
I really like her energy. She has two boys, she's
from Greece, she's you know, she's in her fifties. I think, um,
but I'm still so scared. I see those things on

the news and I don't I'm just scared, like what
if she's crazy? What if she just hurts our children.
I'm like, I'm genuinely having anxiety in any cama. Some
I'm sorry we're getting so we just we bought we
bought five. There's this new system called Blink. Have you
ever heard of it? It works with Alexa. But there's
these little small cameras. So we're gonna put them in

the kid's rooms, which we already have cameras anyways, but
I just want them more around the house. But even so,
if something were to happen we're not there are they
hidden cameras? Now we're not, She'll she'll know she's on camera.
We're gonna have it so because before we just had
one in Julian's room, but now we're gonna have one
in the living room so you can see the whole
the kitchen, you can see the living room. We're gonna

have one another one in Jason's room so we can
see it all on the same device. So yeah, we're
gonna have it all over. Like what if something were
to happen and we're not there, We're in freaking Boston
doing wine down, or we're in Scotland, how do you
I mean, you just call the police? I think, uh.
I mean, because this is gonna be a new nannie,

I think it'd be smart to maybe have Julie or
somebody to stop by every now and then mus be like, hey,
you know our new nanny's name, be like, hey, you know,
Julie's gonna stop by, just you know, a familiar face.
The other kids are doing chicken on things. It's just
weird because when Jolie was little, I traveled with her everywhere.
I mean, she's she went everywhere since she was six
weeks old. She was on a bus with me. We

flew went everywhere together. So I feel like, this is
kind of the first time we're having to have this
situation when we're not actually with the kids, and why not,
because you're working so much when you're when you're we
can't bring him to Scotland. So because it's I mean
with a baby and Jolie. I mean, the flights were
already so expensive. It was easier, it was easy, and

we didn't have to buy her a seat yet and
if we were because we're technically still in l A
so the podcast tours in May, so again it'd be
flying a lot of flights and that's just a lot
for two kids. So and then on top of the
having to have someone to help us watch the kids
when we're winding down on stage. So I mean, look,
it's all champagne problems, but I think just some having

I'm very interested to hear some nanny story, So email
in Jane Kramer at I heart Meadia dot com. I
do because I want to what I have to be
fearful of and maybe I maybe moms too that this
is only going to fuel your imagination. My imagination is
so aft anyways, I mean, the things I think about

movie Wise in my head is just stupid. So This
is an issue today between basically it is the Internet,
I think, but between local news and the internet and
the movies we watch every possible bad thing. Every time.
One of my daughters is like I remember this time
she went around the block to walk her friend home.
I could almost see her the whole time, but I

had to follow. She didn't want me to know I
was just gonna take her, so I would hide behind
trees following her, because as soon as she's out of
my side, I think of Ja c du Gard. Remember
Jar She was walking to school when she was ten
years old and lived in a shed for the next
twenty years. Having the baby room was based on I think,
based on that, but it's the same. I was working

at a news station when that went downside to write
a whole bunch of stories on and and I know way
too much about about that story, and it haunts me.
But the question I always ask is, fifty years ago
to thirty years ago, was the world just as dangerous
as it is now but we didn't have the Internet
to know about it? Or has the world actually gotten
more dangerous since then? I don't think we know the answer.

I think, yeah, what a great question. I think the
world has gotten more dangerous because of the exposure to everything.
Are we feeling if that was my question too, you know,
are we fueling that badness in this world? Instant gratification
doesn't help. Yeah, when people want things, you know, I

mean there's no I feel like to feed the almost
like that. What's the adrenaline rush to be evil people
have that? It's I mean, and it doesn't help too
that we live in l A County and every night
on the news it's like watching a movie. It is
like it is it's ridiculous, Like we've had a turn
of the news off because we're like, we don't even
want Jolie seeing another police chase, another ridiculous cards and

another shooting another day. I mean, it's it's literally like
watching a movie every night on the news. Yeah, it's
it's it is scary though into your point, mark what
you said. We are. Our entire back yard is fenced in,
I mean tall, tall, tall fences. But sometimes when I'm
in the kitchen because the kids will go out and play,
like when she has camped in over, they'll go out
and play in the backyard. Sometimes I'm like, I feel

like I have to be at seven, because what if
someone hops over the fence, even though it's a very
hard fence to hop over, because it's I mean, how
tall is the fence. But still, I'm like, we're in
l a Like someone could easily hop over the fence
somehow get the kids and then you know she's j C.
We had the same rules. We had the same you
cannot play in the front yard period, only play in

the backyard. And we'd be out there if they were
playing in the backyard. We were just sitting and watch
them because we're that paranoid. But that's the helicopter parenting
and the lawnmower parenting that they call it. That that
is affecting this next generation. And it's because mostly of
our paranoia. Because when we were kids, we got to
play outside front our backyard, neighbor's house. We'd roger exactly
and and we were fine, and I maintained. I can't

believe that there are more kidnapping child molesters in than
there were in nine seventy sixty nine. I can't believe
that that's changed that much unless it's all copycats and
people getting ideas from the internet. But I think it's
got to be the same. I mean, it'd be interesting
to talk to a law enforcement on that just to
ask their question, because well, unless there wasn't booked then

so maybe things people I think, I think to just
a general psychologist on the mindset of you know, the
evolution of humans over the last fifty years that you said,
and I mean should remember, you know, my dad would
tell me, you know, he went to James Madison like
I did. He would have hitchhike if you want to
go home for the weekend, literally just hitchhike, like that's
unheard of today. That won't happen, you know, because you

can't trust anybody nobody, But back then you are, you
going to be more trusting. And so when we move
back to Nashville, which, by the way, our house is delayed.
That was a funny email to get from the builder. Um,
so we're gonna be living out of an r V
in the summer literally, Like you're laughing, But this isn't
even a job. We are grizz bolding it. You know,

there's there's there's zero joke to that. Like, I mean,
we we are we have an airbnb, we have our
final move data out of l A, we have our
air and we were supposed to move straight from here
into our house, but instead we are going to an
airbnb for a month, and then we're getting an r
V and we're going up to Michigan for fourth of
July and then after that we're gonna r V until
our house is ready because it is just too expensive

come home. So I don't know where we're gonna be,
but just waved to us something. Rest wishes your kids
were older, because what a memorable summer that would be
if the kids were a little older, it would be
really cool. What happens and see where we end up?

Oh my god, I'm so stressed. But what are we
gonna say? Do I feel more comfortable? So in Nashville,
I mean, we're gonna have a fence backyard, But are
you going to be more comfortable because we're in Nashville.
But they're still crazy everywhere for sure. But it's a
numbers game. I mean we don't have Yeah, it's a
numbers game. Think how populated l A County is. All
the mess that's going around here, and homeless people that

are walking in front of our house, yeah that's on
our block. That happens because we're in l A no
matter where you live. So in Nashville, we're not gonna
have homeless people in our suburban neighborhood thirty minutes outside
of downtown Nashville. There are people less crime, right And
I'm sure you did the homework on your neighborhood. I'm
sure it's a nice crime, low crime neighborhood. It's gonna

be it's gonna be great. But like you said, anything
can happen. So I still to Mark's point. I mean,
I see why helicopter parenting is a thing because no
one you just you want to protect your kids. I
think Paris back then, we're just ignorant of the world.
They didn't have the news cycle that they have now
and people had to find out the hard way the

evil that's out there. Right Well, to brighten things up
a little bit, we have some really cool guests and
actually I just got up to date about the whole
fire festival. Did you Mark Easton if you guys watched
Fire Festival? So I just watched this morning. So we
have Seth was a cross now he was an attendee,

and then his lawyer, Stacy Miller, they're going to be
in studio, so I have so many questions about it.
Did you watch the Netflix or the Hulutch? The Netflix?
I watched that one too. I love it. Which one
was the difference with the I didn't either. But they're similar.
I mean there's similar ideas, some of the same people.
But I mean I don't know the Oh you know,
I just watched the Hulu one. The Hulu had an
interview with Billy McFarlane. Interesting, yes, but he and the

Netflix didn't because before after prison or his sentence before,
so he was like about to go in. He wanted
a bunch of money for the interview, so of course, yeah.
So Netflix was like, we don't want to pay that,
and he was like, let's have it. I thought it
was fast, amazing. Um, he's not in jail right he's
in jail right now, isn't he? Or is he he is? Yeah? Yeah,

I think he's currently incarcerood. Okay. I wasn't sure if
he got on a bail or anything like that. But
then okay, so we have the fire festival, um attendee
and lawyer and then the Rolloffs are in studio. Who
I just I love them. So they're so sweet. So
it's gonna be a fun show. It's excited, Okay, So
catching up real fast? Um he Billy is his name's Bill, right,

Billy mcfrawn. He is in prison. Yes, he's currently incarcerated
in Orange County, New York. Whatever happened with Felicity and
uh and and Bucky and Becky, it's changing by the day.
So as of today, which is around noon on Tuesday
the ninth, yesterday, Felicity having pled guilty. The reason she
did that was to minimize her sentence, but the prosecutors

are only accepting please that include prison time, so the
minimum would be four months. Her lawyers are gonna fight
for zero, of course, but it looks like four months now.
Laura Lack wins the whole different situation because hers was
twice as opposed to grand and I guess that's a
major difference between the two. So she's looking at two

years if she please or pleads pleads out except the
plea bargain, she's looking at two years minimum. If she
does it and fights it, it it could be a lot
more than that. And today she was a charge. She
was charged with additional counts, which to me makes me
wonder did she not accept the place So because the
danger was if you don't accept the pola, there's more
charges coming. So I wonder if she didn't accept the plea,

because now she's charged with conspiracy to commit money laundering
on top of everything else. And that's the thing. If
you don't accept the plea, it's not like you can
try to fight it. Realize you're not gonna win these
more tragic charges that and on, like, oh, let me
go back to that original no no, that deal came
and wins. We heard you gotta do you know more?
Now this one carries a maximum sentence, a maximum of

twenty years in prison. Do you really think they should
go in to jail for this? Like you're in your honest,
like gut and heart of hearts, do you think that
they should be going to jail for this or should
they just pay? It's a tough one because, um, if
other people go to jail for this, they should go
to jail for this. It shouldn't be some sort of

celebrity or rich people or whatever like that. They shouldn't
be able to pay their way out of jail. On
the other hand, when you think of the crimes that
really are committed that require incarceration, this seems low on
that totem pole. I understand that they kept other kids
out of college, but they didn't kill anybody, they didn't
hurt anybody. They didn't, you know, So that's an interesting thing.
I mean, there are a lot of people that are
getting released from jail because of overcrowding, so people that

have committed serious crimes, like serious serious. Is it bad
that I have I don't know if this is even
an old fashioned mindset, but this is just there might
be backlash on this, but my opinion with the whole
prison system, depending on your crime, If you it has
anything to do with children, molest station abuse, dead kidnaps, kidnapping,

um murder, anything like that with children, you're going take
you out back. Death penalty definitely, yeah, but not even death,
Not even death penalty because that could be twenty years
you're on death row or something true, like like instant
capital punishment. What if what if people look, I think

that's anything with kids and any of that stuff. I
think it's so heinous, But what if someone does? Can
someone change from that? Like, I mean, trust me, if
it's my kid, I would want I'll take him out back.
I'll kill him. That's The other thing thing about the
death penalty is people who like I consider myself anti
death penalty because so many there's so many wrongful convictions

as as the long process of this. But if it
was my kid, yes, I'm in favor of capital punishment.
So it's a tough you're kind of torn on that.
But if if it's cut and dried, I have no
issue with that. Yeah. I mean, if it's if it's
clear as day and there's no question behind me. What
if they're young and under a lot of drugs, and

obviously there's still there's still lean equation. I don't I
don't know what those are. I didn't think them all about.
But all I'm saying is there's I feel like there
should be some crimes in this country that, yeah, like
you said, depending on those variables, age, situation, under the
influence or not on the under the influence, his history
of crime, whatever it may be. Some things I just

think people don't deserve no chance. Well, let me ask you,
this Devil's advocate, couldn't you argue that every crime of
that magnitude, murder, foll balistation, that sort of thing, there
is a story, there's always it's abuse as a child,
psychological problems, mental problems. You could argue that anyone who

commits a crime like that, there's always a story that
could sway the opinion of maybe they didn't have the
help of therapy to help them can or because if
they're yeah, I mean freaking look at what's his face?
That he was them? Uh, the kid in jail that
COmON that documentary that was like to make a murder,
the making a murder, the the cousin or the brother

or the he was so he wasn't mental. He didn't
even know words on the spectrum they're commercing him into.
So I mean, like, I mean, he could have been
so easy, like okay, okay, somebody because I don't know,
because you said so, I'll kill somebody like he did
who wasn't smart? You know? Is there evil or is
there always a reason? And that? And that's that to
your point, I understand. I understand that you could go
back on everybody and there's some kind of story, but

I truly feel that they are evil to do some
of these things. You are evil. Ted Bundy is an
evil person. Stuff like that. You are an evil, evil person,
regardless of what's happened to you in your life, you're evil.
So I just feel people that are, you know, in
that category. It's just like, why waste our tax dollars

in people's time to sit on death River? However, you know,
twenty years wherever the average is. I don't even know
what the average is to sit there. So do you
think they should take felicity and aunt Becky out back?
That's how they got into this fat, heinous crime they did.
I'm just curious, like, what do you think that like
they should serve. I just think that's you know, take

it in, you know, in perspective, like you said, all right,
we're any tax fraud. Potentially, yes, because they wrote it
off as a charitable donation. Because yeah, people go to jail.
If he cuts down to that, it's like, hey, I
mean the laws of law. Look, if they're putting away um,

non wealthy families for crimes like this, then you got it.
I agree with that. I don't agree with is making
a Well, there are celebrities, so we have to prove
a point, right. I don't like that make an example, right,
But I think if you do it with everyone else,
then do it. I think that's a great point though
by you, because that's probably why the prosecutors their plea

deals all all include jail time, because they it's like
almost they have to look terrible other if they don't.
If they don't, and social media is covered with issues
like you know, uh, black mother in somewhere who voted
and she was an eligible to vote and didn't realize
she was an eligible vote and now she's in jail.
You know that sort of thing that those comparisons are

always going to come to. So many defense attorneys will
reference that that case. You know, I'm sorry, that's an
actual case. Yeah, I can bring up the details on it,
but but yeah, well I'm saying the reference Lord Laughlin
and Felicity Huffman's case when you know their clients go
through any kind of tax fraud or money issues or whatever,
like they'll start saying, and you know, Laughlin and Huffman

verse the state of California. This happened and they didn't
get any time. Why does my client, Rosa Maria Ortega
voted voter fraud because she voted illegally, says she had
no idea, she does speak English that well, and she's
doing eight years in prison. Eight years see that right
there is just ridiculous, ridiculous, what how can how can

I judge? And it was appealed and it held up
an appeal and the Attorney General says it's an open
and shut case of voter fraud. She pretended to be
a citizen, she voted, and now she's being punished. Was
she doing that to get citizen, to pretend that she
wishing actually a citizen? To the prosecutors saying she wasn't
a citizen, she was pretending to be a citizen. Her
team is saying that she had no idea that she

couldn't vote if she lives here. She voted, everyone else's voted.
She's not right, And that's the thing. What's the benefit
of voting? What? No I know I'm saying. I'm from
saying from a standpoint, why would she purposely go vote?
Is there anything to gain? You're not paying it, It doesn't,
It doesn't give you any But if she's maybe she
was trying to prove because she wasn't she's not technically

a citizen of the US. He's a legal permanent she's
not a citizen. She's a legal residence. She's legal she's
not in here illegally, rather like distinction that I'm not
even that clear on the difference citizen an illegal permanent
residence I think. But to Mark point, he's probably just
caught up in it. Like people. She knows this is
what we do, and she's probably like, well, I'm legally

I'm allowed to live here, so yeah, I guess I'll
go vote. Is there any benefits of voting in her situation?
That's what I'm saying. What's the benefits? Well, that's what
I'm asking. Does anyone know what the benefit could be there?
She has nothing to gain. It's literally just you know,
you're right as a citizen, which she thought she was,
but she's not, and she just thought she could do it,

but she realized that's her master plan here, right. No,
I think it was just situation, a situational thing. That
exactly Mark said, Leslie. Let us know our girlfriend les
They always sends us notes. She's like, well on this,
I think it should have been this. So we are
so excited because in the studio and the wine Dance

to do with Seth cross Note and Stacy Millow, I
feel like you guys are turning what is it lemons
into lemonade. Right, I mean, you guys, I see this.
You guys have um seth cross note and Stacy Miller's
Dumpster Fire podcast is available now wherever you listen to podcast.
So you guys are turning kind of this massive disaster

into a silver lining of a podcast. Yeah, that's that's
the goal. You know. Um, there's so many stories. You know,
the documentaries did a great job, but and then there's
a Netflix in a Hulu one right exactly, and um,
there's just so much more of the story and there's
so many more things going on today. So we just
felt like it would be fun to cover it and

also maybe um draw attention to the people that we're
victims in the Bahamas and continue to raise awareness about
their go fund me and stuff like that. So what's
the goal behind the podcast? Not only I know you
talk about the fire festival, but what other things do
you guys talk about? So you know, we're kind of
in this unique position where I went down there as
sort of a comedy writer to sort of poke fun

at the whole influencer angle. Um, and then basic, let's
just draw some love towards that fast because like I
don't I mean I don't look like an influencer, so
like what am I doing watching it? I was like,
I'm very curious and like what his intentions were there?
You've been pretty influential lately. Um, so you know, we thought, uh, yeah,

to turn it into a podcast and maybe learn more
about UM some of the things like where did all
the money go? You know, like, um, you know what
else is uh kind of behind the scenes that didn't
get talked about on the documentaries or pich did you
actually pay? Um? Are you allowed to say that? Yeah,
a little less than five thousand dollars for the okay? Okay,
because I know there was a couple of ones. There

was a there was that like four thousand dollar tier,
and then there was a twenty thousands all these different room.
Did you get your money back? And did the people
get their money back that went to the festival. I
have a friend who got stuck in the Miami airport
and never got her money back, so she didn't even
make it down to the island. Um, so we we

ended up not getting anything from fire Fire Festival or anything.
So UM, I don't think they, to my knowledge, made
any refunds anybody. So the people that spent twenty plus
screw I mean any money at all. Didn't get any
money back, not to my knowledge, Stacy, how did you
get like into this? And with how did you guys meet?

Sort of a funny story. I have known stuff for
quite some time. Our neighborhoods backed up together, and Raleigh
and South younger than me, but we became friends. He
ran this blog post sort of funny content and I
was going to help sponsor him, so I did, and
he would tall salt things that include and tag me
and that sort of thing often. Then one morning I
woke up and my social media on my phone was

just going crazy. And I looked and he was posting
all this content from this fire festival and he tagged
me they will be hearing from Stacey. I had never
heard of the fire festival, and so I was like,
he might be and the more this doesn't look good,
And so I called him and he was in the
airport in the Bahamas. As soon as as soon as

he has said hello, I could tell he was wrecked. Yeah,
he was wrecked. Until I was like, hey man, okay,
because well he went into the story. I think I'm
getting ready to get out in bed you know, I'm
going to sleep in two days, have anything to eat
or drink. I'm pretty sure to get reading on this flight, right.
I said, we'll call you when you get to Miami,
and he did. Why didn't they cancel it? So? What is? Where?

Is why? I just don't did where they're gonna lose more,
where they have have had to pay people back? Is
that the issue. There were a lot of things, so
Billy had a lot of loans do like the week
after the festival. So if he cancels the festival and
people don't show up, then you know, he's not going
to get a lot of the income that he was
planning on receiving from other investors. So he had like

a term sheet from Comcast that I think was either
ten or twenty five million, I can't remember, but they
were going to invest in the festival. So I think
that Billy thought, if I pull this off, it'll it'll
at least be like proof of concept. You know, first
year got off to a rocky star but next year,
you know there'll be a bud Light main stage, you know,
like and we'll we'll show him that it works. But um,

he I think he just had to throw it because, um,
you know, it's all part of like this house of
cards that he was running. Do you think Billy is
a bad guy or just subject to trying to over
succeed and he's just delusional, or do you think there's
some personality which I mean he had this company called Magnesis.

He was the credit cards right, right, and then he
goes and puts on this fire festival, which was impossible
from the get go, right right, and then he lures
these guys out of their homes, out of their state,
out of their country, dumps them on a desert island
and the sun goes down. That's when he gets really dangerous, right, Yeah,

so it all blows up. He gets indicted, right, gets
a lawyer, he gets out on pre trial release and
does it again. Right. The emails right right, I access stuff.
And so to get back to your original question, Yeah,
I think he's a special person and I think it
takes a special depraved heart to do something. I agree
with you. I mean, that's definitely where my opinion is.

When you said he's done it multiple times, and the
fact that he's on you know, pre trial bail or
whatever it was, and he still had the nerve to
be the same way. Wouldn't we just take him out
back then, babe, because we talked about earlier bout just
taking people out back and just shoot hims. Come to
my come from my court, man, I'll take care of

things Michael's court. You just take him out back. Yeah,
that's sort of what happened when growing up, you take
out the woodshed and you learn your lesson. But um,
I've sort of coined him the millennial made off. Yeah, yeah,
what he is, no question. And those folks man know
they can go to they look at jail, they'll do
it again. You gotta hurt them where they they're there.

They keep sort of their pride the most, and that's
their own pocket book, right. How how much longer can
you guys discuss the fire festival specifically? Like what else
are there other things that you guys are investigating and
looking into that this kind of stuff has happened just
not to you. Yeah, so there are other stories of
people that were um kind of defrauded in other ways,

and so a lot of the things that UM kind
of the documentary just doesn't get a time to to
go into. Is you know, Billy was going after unaccredited investors.
So there were you know, a couple that takes out
dollars their whole retirement and invest it with billy, you know,
and like you don't hear those stories of those people.
So there's so many levels to this that are like

related to fire. They just don't make the headlines because
it's not you know, the supermodels or the beach or
anything like that. So there's so many instances of that.
And then also um just kind of the people that
were involved, like what are they up to now? And
they're running similar companies, similar structured companies, and you kind
of want to say, like is this a scam too?

So there's a lot of kind of threads to follow.
How did he convince because like when you know, when
we're watching the uh, the Netflix we didn't see the
Hulu one, but the next Netflix documentary, how do he
convince that many you know, people who seemed successful in
their world where their marketing advertising this that logistics. I
mean that one guy was about to suck a d
like you know what, people, when do you just say no? Honestly,

he's a talented young man and every time he went away,
he came back with more money. Every time they needed
more money, he'd leave and come back with a couple
more millions, and so that everybody just, you know, I
thought he was going to be able to raise enough.
You know, at some point, I think everybody knew that
it was impossible. I mean, they're like two weeks out
and there's nothing going. I mean, it's crazy. They were

trying to Billy was trying to scam money out of
Seth the day before he respond you talked about on
the documentary. I just feel so bad for the people.
I mean, I know a lot of people are like, well,
it's just these rich kids that are buying, but there's
still people that spent their hard earned money saved up

probably to be there, and that's just sad. A lot
of people paid like five dred thousand dollars to go,
so it really wasn't this crazy thing. Like we Mark
and I went, and you know, our original ticket was
a thousand dollars and then we thought, all right, we'll
do this v I P thing for two thousand total.
And then when we saw these crazy things getting added
likellar yacht package, I was like, I think maybe we're

out of our league here. So what if we just
buy this like artist passed and everything will be included.
And the artist passed is like, so I'm like, all right,
forty seven, Like that's kind of my limit for this thing.
But that's still four or five nights in the Bahamas,
a festival, food, drinks included. I mean, you had a festival.
It's like twenty bucks a beer, so you're you know,
like it's not too outrageous. And that was still kind

of the higher uh end of it. Like our other
two friends that went, you know, they paid about a
thousand dollars. Again, what was the first thing that really
kind of triggered you to be like and like kind
of really start asking yourself these questions. Well that was
so you know, you'd get emails from them and it
would make you scratch your head, but then you'd ask
a question and follow up. Like the wrist bands, they said,

put you know, five dollars for every day you're going.
And I said, I replied to them and I said,
you know, we've got the artists past, we've got the
v I P. What could I possibly need to give
you any more money for? And he said, oh, you're good,
don't worry. Um, But you know if you want to
plane ride or a boat ride or I'm like, I'm good,
I don't need to plane ride on the island. Um.
But you know that was all part of them trying
to raise some money really quickly to pay back some

some debts that they owed. But um, what did it
happen to job rule? Did he get under fire for this? Uh?
Of lawyer? Speaker? Well speaking lawyer? We discussed matters, We
came to the agreement they were both parties were going

to focus on other business matters. In lawyer terms, that
means what because I don't understand that that is the
official one. Okay, but he's facing some other lawsuits. Um,
you know, I think they've consolidated a bunch of civil
suits because his name was equally on it, right, you know,
we we we named him on the com point. Okay,

do you go? Do you go with Seth anywhere he goes?
We're talking about this stuff to make sure that like,
I know, you guys have a friendship too, But is
this also like kind of you know, doing your job
also and making sure that he doesn't say anything sure
and you know the questions that maybe he uh shouldn't
answer me, maybe I should answer. Sure to make sure
we say things that we're supposed to say, that they
not say things we're not supposed to say, right, because

in this delicate of a situation, I'm sure any kind
of defense on Billies and they're trying to they probably
you know, cutting it every detail that you say to
try to Yeah, we have to be careful. So I
mean a lot of the things that we're hearing from
people are you know, their stories of well, this is
what I experienced with Billy, So I have to say,
you know, this is what John Smith says about X,

Y and Z and I, you know, talking to credible people,
I'm like, I know this is a fact, you know,
and I believe this person, but I still have to
frame it that, you know, this is the story we
heard play this clip, you know, because they're pretty wild stories,
you know, like drug dealers on the island and stuff
like that. Because even I mean, and just like what
they said that the tents were going to look like

and then showing up like that, Oh my gosh, you
warn the class action suit? What's the timeline on collection?
It was something like that, Stacy, And how do you
get that much for if you didn't put it's just like,
so you only spent actually with five thousand dollars, but
then but yeah, you're getting five millions, so is that
just your time? And you're did you get PTSD like

from the bed from the bed beds? You know what
happened was there was a class action that was already
fold actually out here in California, but Mark Garrigos's firm
by the time Seth came back UM and I met
with him and Riley, there was there was a loss.
It was already fought. So we had to decide whether
we wanted to participate in that class action or do

we want to bring our own individual action. And so
we quickly determined that that the person who who who
got a verdict first across the finish line first was
going to be in the best position to collect. So
we opted not to participate in the class action and
we followed on individual case. We got a verdict against
Billy for five million dollars as both for Mr cross

No and Mr Thompson. UM. I could ask that question
a lot, Jenna that well, you know, you guys only
spent a couple of thousand dollars, how'd you wind up with?
You know million, and they answer that is this in
in North Carolina. Um, when you've been defrauded, the court
or the remedy is you make the person hole and

the second half of that is you make sure this
individual doesn't do it again. So we sued for punitive damages.
And so it was to punish Billy, you know one. Secondly,
it was to send a message to every other person
out there that's trying to, you know, separate consumers from
their cash. You better do it lawfully in this state.

If not, you're gonna get tattooed. But will he actually
get that money? Yes, we believe we're gonna be able
to satisfy that judgment. Um, I can't tell you exactly
the specifics of that because there's a lot of people
right now. So yes, But I just I'm curious, like
how you get money out of someone that has no money?
I've always wondered that. Well, we believe he does. Where

from how Like there's no investors giving he's living in
his or now he's in jail. But before that, I mean,
he lost his pen house, he lost everything. So I
don't understand his investors are surely not giving him money,
So where is it. Where is it? And I would
like to tell you that I can't. You're so annoying.
I want to know the answer. But I mean any

assets that he had, you know that you can um
file leans on properties and things like that, like even
if he owned no no, but I mean if he
has any end, if he has a trust that his
parents left, if he has you know, stuff like that. So,
but there's also um you know, we believe there are
you know, things not in the United States, you know,

being held off like that. And Billy, I mean, that
doesn't surprise me. You would think someone like that he's
got he's got. Now, when you have a private pilot
that can fly Downder the Bahamas and you get cat
bags account of something, it's kind of easy to come
from what we've heard put things places. So, do you
guys want to have your own documentary kind of spin

off from your podcast? Maybe we've talked about it. So
funny he owns the Yeah, so we're kind of keeping
that under wraps, but thanks for us so exclusive. Yeah.
So yeah, I came back and and creating the podcast name.
I'm pretty risk averse. So I call Stacy and I said,

I don't want to infringe on the fire trademark, and
his sister in law, happens to be an IP attorney,
connects me with her. She's looking through and she says, no,
you can call your dumpster fire podcast. And she said, well,
fire Festival is actually going to expire in about a
couple of months. And I was like, well, what if?
What have I just bought it? Like? And she's like, yeah,
you can do that, and so I was like, I
can say I own fire Festival like quote unquote, and

she was like, yeah, you can do that, and so
I thought it'd be hilarious on the podcast, Like the
b storyline is, uh, can I throw a fire festival?
You know? Did you get sued? Though? Could people see?
Because I mean, from a lawyer's standpoint, like, is that
really smart to own that because people could go after him?
Or it's an opportunity for sure, But I don't think

he He's not gonna set himself up for any liability
of what's happened in the past. Oh yeah, okay, got it. Stacy?
Is this kind of taking over your practice? Your law
practice right now is just kind of working with staff
and kind of figuring all this stuff out well, we've
certainly been very busy. But I mean, I gotta tell you,
I see these fraud cases, you know, every day sort
of what I do, right, Not not not every fraud case
involves supermodels in the Bahamas. Get yeah, some of them did.

But but it has been busy. But this has you know,
this is an essence what what we see all the time,
somebody making a material misrepresentation to lure somebody to purchase something.
They rely on those misrepresentations and they're damaged. Right. We
see this in essence, and with the internet out today, um,
it's you know, plethora of schemes to defraud consumers. Do

you feel bad at all for capitalizing on the whole
fire festival thing or is it more like opportunistic, like
you're just kind of for yourself and you know, taking
advantage of the situation. Yeah, I mean I think that. Uh.
You know, one of our goals is to raise awareness
for the people in the Bahamas, so we kind of
put that on the forefront on all of our um

uh like on the website, and we're you know, encouraging
people to donate and if we ever you know, once
I guess that the money's from the lawsuit come in.
You know, we'd be glad to donate a portion of
that to the to the Bahamas and the people there, because, um,
the good thing that the Netflix film did was raised
awareness to Marry Anne and the people down there. I
think her go fund me was set at a hundred

and twenty three thousand and the last time I checked,
it reached about two d and thirty thousand. So she's
helping because then there's a second go fund me with
a goal of four hundred thousand for the for the
other workers, and so she's giving her extra to that
go fund me because you know, the media runs with
that one, and then you know the next one didn't
pop up to like a week or two later. So um,

and then you know, if we are able to actually
put on a fire festival, we absolutely give a portion back,
you know, to the Bombas. And we wouldn't hold it
in the Bahamas. We do it somewhere where you know, uh,
you're not going to leave people stranded. Would you ever
take over that concept the responsibility to where are the
right people? Because I don't know how to throw a
music festival, you know, so I'm not pretty that actually happened. Yeah,

you know, Yeah, that would that would be that would
be fantastic if they wanted to be able to pull
that off. Yeah, so that's kind of the goal with
the trademark. It was bought kind of tongue in cheek,
but I thought, well, are applied for tongue in cheek
and so we're still through that, going through that process.
But if it happens, stay tuned. Well, I love it.
Well seth Um and Stacy. You can listen to their podcast,
the Dumpster Fire podcast available well ever you listen to podcasts.

So thank you guys so much for coming in. Very interesting,
really appreciate it. Thanks. That was fascinating. Yeah, there's so much.
I just think it's I don't know. The owning the
fire thing is interesting to me. It seems like it
would make him a target for people trying to make
something like why would you want to redo that disaster? Right?

Actually think it's ironic. Actually kind of like that part.
Are the roof here? They are welcome in studio, Jeremy
and Audrey rollof pleasure to be here. Did I say
Jeremy again? I always know I have time saying Jeremy,

It's okay. It's a jer like Jeremy. A lot of
people call him j People spell my name with a
G all the time, so that's weird. That's a little weird.
If you guys have a book out, you on your
book to R now a love letter life. It's so good, honestly,
so inspired. Even Michael was reading it and he was
just like, come on, it's for the guys to you know.

I will say, you're totally right, but I will say
this is this is what Michael does. He'll be like,
I can't wait to read this book, and he never
opens it. So when I say even is because he
actually opened the book about a reader. I've never been
a reader, and now I'm trying to. And it's just
thing is the only time to do is like an
and I get five words and I'm going yeah. But

it's kind of a little bit of a trigger at
times because he's like, I got a book. It says
you know how to be an adult. That's one book
he wants to read. And I'm like, well, baby, you
actually have to open the book. I'm more if I
just sit on a nightstand, the words will start when
I sleep. It just kind of yeah, there we go.
That gets into the whole discussion of like, is audio
booking really reading? Yeah, some people think I think I

think that you're getting the ingesting. The ingestion of listening
is obviously way different than like reading, actually reading, And
so I'm on the fence of like, I don't know
if you can say I read a book if you
listen to it. I agree with that even for someone
who doesn't. But I love audio booking. It's one of
my favorite things, just like listening to a podcast. I've

never done an audio you wouldn't say, like you wouldn't
say I read a podcast, would you? But audio books
that can be it depends on the person doing it,
like it depends on the voice of the person reading
the book, because sometimes it can be so boring. Yeah, sometimes, yeah,
it has to be. The most fun ones are the
people that actually we got to read our own audio book,

which is so fun. It's like our voices read. I
can only read from first person, Like I have a
hard time reading if it says she said, and this
person said, it has to be from the reader. So
like Emily Giffen's one of my favorite authors, love her
to death, but she writes always in that first person,
so interesting it's like when we read Jolie, our daughter

a three year old books, and it's always dialogue and
it's like every other sense he said. They exclaimed, But
it's just like it's tiring to read every sentence. You
have to read that, you know, if I do, I
do voices and there I don't have to say that,
he said. She started doing voices. You can skip those
lines when she starts to learn how to read, like
what you're missing? And I'm like, I don't care. We do.

We skip a lot of actually don't anymore, you don't anymore? Really,
I read her every word lies. Wow, you guys, how
old your daughter? Diligent? Nineteen months? Nineteen months? Are we? So?
Are we going for baby too? Like, definitely we want
to have more kids. I'm ready to have another. I
don't want them to be too far apart. I'm like,

they got to be friends, Like I don't want one
to be a senior in high school looking at their
freshman sister. You know, like how it was with me,
but my brother he wouldn't even let me ride in
his car on the way to school because he didn't
want to be associated with her. It was so sad.
Your only brother or only siblings. Um, well, well no,

I have technically have two half sisters, but they're super young.
But um, but yeah, so the older brother. But yeah,
he would never let me ride in his car, and
if I did, I had to sit in the back,
like I could not be associated with him. That's where
like being a twin was so fun. Yeah, we were
a really good friend. Default friends they're always you know,
yeah for sure, and we rode together every day, you know,

unless we were doing something different after school. But I remember,
I love that kind of twin dynamic where it's like
you guys embrace it. Yeah, you're just like you love
each other for it, because some don't. First so absolutely,
some just have that kind of independency issue where it's
just like i'my, he's there, you know, Yeah, I don't
want to be affiliated with with each other. Can I
just ask on your family side first, just is does

dwarfs um run genetically? I don't know how that's because
both of your parents are dwarfs. Right, what a nightmare question.
I'm sorry. I'm like, you did film the TV show,
so I'm like I have to ask kind of interesting.
I'm totally kidding. I'm totally kidding. It's actually really weird,
Like you guys are just as likely to have a
little person as I am. Really for us because we
don't because it's a dominant gene. Well even that it's

kind of confusing, but yeah, it's a dominant gene for
the most part. But you know, the whole gene pool,
Like some people still don't know what's going on in
that realm. I just know that Mike's left eye has
the same left eyes. Jeans are like insane, right right, yeah,
but I mean jeans are just like nuts. Yeah, they're crazy,
and so like Audrey in My Keep, or a possibility
of having a little person to be the same as

your guys at the end of the day if you
broke it down, which is an interesting thing because you
wouldn't think so, you know, but is your is your
brother on normal size? I guess how do I say
that is a little person, which is like the weird
part about it. And then too, I've got a younger
sister and then a younger brother. We're all three years apart,

so Zach and I twins, nine sister and then younger brother,
all three years apart. And it's what's really weird. It's like,
I'm perfectly healthy, average hype person in Zach's actually a
really healthy, very healthy, a condo plasure dwarf. So it's
kind of funny how that all worked out. He's an
would call acon, but acon to plasure. Yeah, what is that?

There's like several hundred types of Dwarfism out there. Yeah,
so like there's different types of acons, there's hypo acons,
there's you know, it gets crazy. There's a whole LP
a little People of America. There's a whole organization where
people meet every year and this is a whole rabbit trail.
But it gets really crazy. There's like a kids so
mean to you about yeah, you know, yeah, I would

say there were definitely, um, yeah, there were definitely times
where it got a little intense, like even in the
height of like filming like TV years different how many years?
Oh boy, this is our Yeah, but we're not. Audrey
and I were done. We stepped away two years ago

to write books and just pursue some too hard. You
know it just have you done anything for fifteen years?
It just it just gets to the point where you're like,
I'm ready to go do something else, you know, and
then then I married Audrey really and it's like, whoa,
we got some passion here, So let's go do something
with the tools we feel like we've been given. Let's
go exercise some of this. If you have different avenues

than necessarily you know, the reality television show I grew
up on, plus it just got to a point to
your point in general, it's like you got hard. It
was a little hard. How did the show? You guys
be on the show? And when Audrey came in the
picture of like affect your dating in life and you know,
in a positive but then also a negative. That's a
good question. Well, one cool thing about our book is
like we kind of tell the story that was never told,

you know, because they filmed our wedding. There's like two
point four two point three million people watched it, um,
but nobody followed our our courtship and our dating and
that because we did long distance our entire dating relationships.
So it was like they literally couldn't film it. And
Jeremy was kind of not really on the show as
much at the time. In Santa Barbara, I was at school.

Did you guys meet so blind date? Oh, that's right,
set up by set up by friends though it wasn't
just like random blind date. Yeah, we had we both
trusted our friends that were dating. Did you know I've
never seen the show, but I knew of the show
because everyone in Oregon knew of the pumpkin Patch. So
the pumpkin patch was like a thing before the show.
Was like their family had this pumpkin patch that everyone

went to every weekend in October is a huge thing.
And then so I knew of that, but I didn't
know of show. Yeah, and then our friends basically begged
us there, like you guys have got to meet and
so we're like, okay, so we did. Did you know
from from a Good Girl? Really? Well? Do you need
to read the book? Well? Our listeners ours that's sitting.

That's sitting. That's the next one in my lineup. So
had to be an adult relationship. Okay, there you go
compatible with what do you want people? What's the takeaway
for your funk? Yeah, so we it would be a
success and that we're already seeing kind of some of
this response come in, which is just read. We follow

each other on instan I love just seeing everyone's comments.
It's been so special. But we would want people to
put down the book and feel absolutely ignited, not just ignited,
but equipped and inspired to write their own love litter life,
to go out and pursue a love story that they
would actually want read back to them one day. We
believe we're all writing our love story and at the
end of our life, we're all going to have our
life a song, if you will, sung back to us,

and we hope you like what you hear. In the
same way, we want to live the story every single
day and ignite people to do that so that when
they do get to the end of their life, they
have a story that they want to read that they
would want read back to them. So that's what we
that's like, that's like our hope for what the book
does to people. And I guess the reasons because we
just think we believe relationships and the marriage relationships specifically

is just so powerful. It's like, why aren't we pressing
into them. How do you guys handle adversity or issues
within your marriage? Because again, I mean your your book,
the stuff that I have read in it and just
talking to you guys on your podcast and everything. You
guys are so in love. You guys are so affectionate
and everything, but when it comes through those hard times,
how do you guys handle those and kind of what

comes up? Oh yeah, give me the hard ones. Of
course you get to say the lovely, amazing thing about
our bugb No, yeah, I mean that is something that
we do talk about a lot in the book because
we just we didn't want to be you know, the
world doesn't need another highlight reel, right, so we wanted
to share like the struggles, the reality of the messy

stuff of our relationship in the book. So we talk
a lot about there's a chapter called the Code of Conflict,
and we talked a lot about just how we handle
conflict in our relationship and how we try to view
conflict as an opportunity for learning more about each other.
And that doesn't always necessarily work out. Um, but we've

kind of set ourselves these boundaries for when we do fight,
how to do it in a fair way, And so
I think we want to I feel like we are
kind of non negotiables for conflict. Like, when conflict does
our ese, it's inevitable, But how do we prevent conflict
from turning into fighting? How do we keep it in
like a conflict to resolve conflict, to resolve mode as
opposed to conflict to fighting it. Yeah, because ultimately, like

what's the point, what's the goal? What's the point? Like
we believe, you know, the point of marriage isn't just
marriage itself, right, because if the point of marriage was marriage,
then the ultimate goal would probably be happiness or something.
But we happiness is actually a byproduct of how you
would treat your marriage or approach conflict and whatnot. So
I think the perspective of like, Okay, we're on a
mission together, we got goals, we've got an agenda, we've

got a framework to achieve this. It's so funny. Every
single successful business, sports, team, unit, organization, you name it
on the planet, what do they all have. They all
have a mission statement, they all have goals, they all
have a strategy for success. They'll have yearly summits, they
all have Why don't we ever do that with our marriages?
Like they're designing success in there. You know, all every

other organization does that, But we don't do that with
our marriages. Why aren't we as intentional? It's like we
get married and then we throw everything up in there
and we go I hope this one works out, let's
just let it be spontaneous. But I'm gonna train really
hard and put diet restrictions in everything from my half marathon. Right,
it's like, what are we doing? It's like, of course,
of course things are failing left and rights, because we're
literally planning for failure. So that being said, going back

to your question of like you know, aniling conflict and stuff,
I think we just have a fun perspective of like, Okay,
we're on mission here, so how do we plan for
success because there's going to be conflict? Of course, can't
get rid of it. Like literally, there's always going to
be conflict because I'm gonna be a different me next year.
Of course she's gonna have to deal with a different
me conflict. I think what you guys said is great,
is you know, what's the ultimate goal of whatever you do,

is you guys, whatever the conflict is. And I think
that's where, at least in the infancy. Well, Jan and
I kind of look back, we realized we were in
the infancy of we're just trying to be right. That
doesn't that's not the purpose. I think what we wanted
to be heard and we didn't know how to hear
that ultimately wanted to be heard, but we did it
by trying to win, you know, no, no, no, hear me,

hear me, hear me. And it's like, well, I'm not here,
And it's like, if we felt like we won, then
we felt like we were heard, but really that's not
at all. That is a very awesome statement. Yeah, and
then our voices just kept getting hired. Were both, well,
we're both getting that's opist. The volume of your voice.

It does not determine the validity of your argument, but
it feels like it's so much not Jeremy though. Jeremy's
voice I'm a nine, So I'm like, he's never total peacemaker.
He's like the passive aggressive in the argument, you know,
he's just like disappear gone, there's no Yeah, it's just
I'm like, where's the intensity. You're gonna match me back? Right?

What are you? What are your language? I'm the intensity
and Janna is the passive aggressive. So even I'll get animated,
I'll be like, you know what, like what's going on
in Jenney, Like, well, you're getting hit and I'm like
I'm just I'm just kind of like, no, I'm talking
about this. You don't need to be just because I
get animated, She says, I'm being me. I actually haven't
said anything mean. I don't know, just I don't know
about you, Jenne. Sometimes I've got to like check my

spirit because sometimes we'll get into what Emerson Rich calls
heated fellowship. What do you call it? Heated fellowship? And
liked get all animated and get all crazy, and I'll
just go, baby, you need to calm down, right he So,
I know it's it's kind of crazy, but it's and
I got to check my spirit because sometimes it'll like

flare her up, you know, but sometimes it will be like, actually,
it always flares you up if I say it like
that audaciously, you know, like you need to calm down.
But we do have those moments of like me trying
to match her intensity or should I like try to
calm her down and likewise mean not being passive grass up.
Sometimes Audrey needs to tell me, like, hey, do you
like do you care like engage with this? Don't just

walk away from anything there. Yeah, it's man dealing with
that stuff. That's where so helpful for us. Do you
guys know do you guys do Instagram do you know,
we did, but we forgot It's like the numbers, right, Yeah.
We we had a we had a span of like
um psychics and healers and everyone come in like that

week and there was just just do it all. It
was just it was a lot. And so I think
I was I need to listen back to the podcast
because we did have an a gram person at all.
With so many in a small window, it's just kind
of blurry. But what does it tell you? Basically, like
not to get all into the Instagram train because it's

such a tangent, but it's it's essentially a self discovery
for self growth, So teaches you more about yourself. It
shows you like the box you're in and teaches you
how to get out of it. So it's not an
excuse for you to like the way you are. It's
teaching you how you are, the way you are, why
you are the way you are, to be that way

so that you can change and grow. And it's so
good for me. It's been probably one of the most
helpful tools like we've ever discovered. So to go back
to that, it's probably it's good. I mean, I'll add
that to mar two. But that's at the bottom. Yeah,
I mean if we if we were ever to write
a book, would you actually read our own book? Bab
we're like, because I read that. Yeah, I read it

while I was typing it. But that's kind of like
a more introspective way of learning yourself compared to introspective
way of learning yourself compared to like love languages, love
languages learning yourself. But this is like a deeper dive,
and I think that's more for learning about the other
person love languages. So I think we always know our

love languages is about learning what other persons is. You
don't really know your love language until you know, until
you know what it is on paper, Like I wouldn't.
I wouldn't have known how to articulate my love language. Really, Yeah,
I feel like, yeah, right, I would say so I wouldn't.

Naturally I didn't know mine. I think until I actually
started someone you started like meeting that need. And actually
we tell the story in the book when I first
recognized it, remember with the um words of affirmation. So
what's next? They got that love letter of life? Now,
what's what's the sequel? What's the what's are you just trying? Yeah?

The book tour just been crazy. It's been so fun.
It has been really fun. It's so cool to get
to do this together because it would have been one thing,
like a lot of people write books, but then the
fact that we get to write a book that's actually
our story and then experience it all together and go
on this tour down is just so fun. It's pretty fun.
We're I mean, there's more books in the works, but yeah,

where the podcast. That's fun. We're kind of trying to
like soak this one in which they were all on
your podcast. That was really fun. We appreciate you all
having a Yeah, that was a great one. I don't
know when we're gonna put that one out, but we
just planned it. We just planned it before this. Literally
we're like rearaging all the schedules as we've been so
we're like we're with all with all the time together
in the book tour and the podcast and everything that

you guys do together. What do you do for yourselves? Yeah,
that's good, dude. We're trying to get back to that. Man, Like,
I feel like we went through a season of uh,
you know, having like this. This the book really is
kind of an overflow of a passion we have for
like pursuing a healthy relationship and whatnot and just bringing
our generation people along our Arnie with us as we
learn and grow, but alongside of the book and like

our our care for relationships. We started quite a few projects,
and I think right now we're kind of we're realizing,
like this isn't like there's more to life than work.
We just like working together. We love it. We're always
starting something and we lay in bed like to one am,
just talking about the next project. We love that. We
just to your point, it's coming at a cost. And

like recently we've realized like wow, I like I really
liked bike riding it once upon a time, Like maybe
I should start bike riding every Saturday. And that's kind
of in our personal I think conviction. Um, just as
we finished the book up and it's been so beautiful
and awesome and fun. But now we're realizing, like okay,
after this, going back to your question, Ja, it's like,
let's like what's next, Like we're probably going to try

to calm down for a second, like all summer, you know,
just like Okay, that was amazing. Let's kind of let's
kind of keep some stuff going rejuvenate, refill, refuel, tend
to sort of some of the things that we've be
on the back burner and in maintenance mode for a
while because are the things that we have got going on,
we just kind of okay, we just gotta wait because

we gotta work on this big project. But that's okay.
There's seasons for everything. So I agree, and I think
there's seasons for I mean, I know Mike needs more
of his time, but you know he's like, well, don't
you want to go and you know, go for a hike,
er do this, and like yeah, but when tell me,
like in our day right now, we have so much
going on with the two kids. I mean it's I'm like, yes,

what I love to go um with the girls to
the spa for three hours. I would love that, But
I also have a list of things I have to
do that I honestly won't even finish, Like in the day. Again,
it's the season we're in right now, is we have
a lot of projects right now, the season that we're in,
and it's and then then hopefully next season, like our

bedtime conversations, when is the season going to end? We
can't just keep launching new things every month. We can't
just keep releasing maybe the train that keeps it going
that like it is always Yeah, She's definite. Yeah, And
then I just want to like sometimes step in and
just go like no, I'm gonna go for a walk.
I'm like, I don't care, like, let it all hit
the wall, you know, yeah, and I'll be back in

ten minutes. We are trying to create a brand, are
trying to make a circle very hard, Janna. Last night
we're in bed, and she usually asked me a question
about later this month, about a traveling plan, if we're
going to do it. I'm just kind of like, can
we talk about tomorrow? And she's just like like it
just like messed her up. Yeah. To me, everything is urgent.

It's urgent, Jeremy, nothing is urgent. And also there's no
such thing as a crisis. There's no such thing as
an emergency. Like I tell this story all the time
and a motorcycle accident. Do you tell hers this? No, Okay,
this is a motorcycle. And also we this is a change.
When we lived in l A. We drove on this
tiny little motorcycle around splitting traffic. We were we were

like flips and we were out of our mind on
this motorcycle when we lived here. Yes, stupid, stupid. We
got a motorcycle back today and I flew up Jared
kind of like spun off into the ditch. We're fine.
Car hit us and we just like spun off. In
the day, I would I guess I didn't even want
to class fine as an accident. It was Jeremy. Jeremy, Yeah,

Jeremy lifts up the fire engines, come all this stuff.
The ladies freaking out. She thinks we're gonna like sewer,
you know, like all this stuff. Jeremy lists out the
bike and he's like, babe, the bike is fine. Do
you want to still go to breakfast? Breakfast? Nothing is
ever wrong, nothing that's general right. But it's just the
thing is, like, you know, Jenna will be coming to

me this this week about a lot of stuff. We
have a lot of moving parts can quit our house.
We're moving. There's movers and we got to schedule we
have to move. We're talking about it in Jenna work
on the phone or in person, and she just starts like, okay,
and you call this person do this. I'm my honey,
Let's just just give it a second. You know, I
gotta call them right now. I gotta make this decision
right now. We have to do this. I'm like, let's

just look at all variables, but there's all other variables
and guess what, there was another variable. Yeah, here's what's
so funny about this? What do you mean? I think
because the mail and I think this is the balance
that makes it work, right, because if two people are
that high strong, it's not gonna work. If two people
that laid back, it's not gonna work. Minutes before, there's

a million things and everything's going crazy and I'm so
stressed out. And his thing is, look, everything's gonna be fine,
and you're both right. Yeah, it's just the different perspective
on the same situation. So here's where, like I think
that collides. And this is again kind of We interviewed
Chris Hewarts, who wrote Sacred Indiogram, and he brought this
perspective to us, which I thought was awesome, and that
is what we used to battle out. We now accept

as the gift that the other brings to the conversation.
So like, without Audrey, I would probably not sloth mode.
I tend to do way less right, But without me
Audrey to be way way on healthy and still having
anxiety attacks at all time, lose her hair. So it's
like we bring a gift to each other, and once
we start to accept that and then wrestle in the
tension of that, right, that's when I think true health

is kind of realized. And for us, obviously we're still
in the process very much so, but that was a
very awesome perspective shift like that I had was like, wow,
her intensity, like babe, bring it, let's go. Thank you
as long as she on the turn side goes thank
you for calling me down, like yeah, let's let's go
do something this weekend. I think there's a balance there,

and obviously it's hinges on healthy communication to find it.
But do you agree with this? I agree with the
one side, but I don't agree with the other because
I still think. I still think that certain things like
you would never think about, we have to move, you know,
across country, and there's all these different variables that have

to line up in place for these things to happen.
So I think the timing of things is very important
because if not, then we would have lost out more,
we would have spent more money and Timing is timing,
and I understand that, but I think you know, Jeremy
hit it on the head. That's exactly how we are.
I think it is a gift because if I matched
your energy, we'd beat constantly in panic and anxiety. I

bring it down. Just let me just give Let me
just give a small example. And this isn't to put
Jame on blast or anything like that. It's not a
terrible thing. But we had an issue with our nanny.
She quit listen. We have so many trips coming up.
Go ahead. She can't even let the slow talk. She's good,

she's like tan conversations ahead of me. No, that's not
even what I was gonna talk about. Okay, we we
needed on nanny for some dates. Later in May, she
responded saying that I told Janna back in January that
I needed these dates X Y and Z off because
family obligations. So on. She she ended up screenshot at

me the text before I ever got any of that.
Janna was like, she did not tell me, no, no, no,
And where I wanted to go to Jamie. I wanted
to say, can you look just just make sure because
I'm like, I'm I'm the messenger right. I'm the messenger
between our contractor between Nanny. I'm that guy, and just
Janna has her hand inside of me and just like

using my mouth as a puppet. So I'm just saying
where she said. So Janna is like, go respond right now,
tell her right now that you know this isn't unacceptable,
and so on so forth. Just my personality. I wanted
to be like, let's just make sure, but I didn't
say it. I said okay, kind of gave you know
through my toe. I was like, all right, fine, I
said it, come back ar. Nanny sends me the screenshot

of her telling Janna that she needed those days off,
and Jane's saying, okay, no problem, acclamation boy, it's my
other face. It's all good. And I had to sit
there and be the bad guy. It's a really long
time ago, regardless sheet story you didn't put on. You
didn't put on a folender. So you're Nanny quit and
you're moving. But were you gonna bring was she gonna
move with you? We hadn't really think get it out yet.

I don't think she would have because I think we
there was a lot of things happening, Nanny until you move, Yes,
so that's been very stressful. But we've I actually did
use care dot com and we have someone that we
hired for off there, so um but but yeah, so
I think there was just some issues already that we're
getting frustrated with. But it's going to be good for
the next situation because I just don't think certain things

have to be that stressful. I wasn't stressed. No, I'm
just saying, just decisions and stuff like that, Like we
can we can make the decisions in the same time.
We know it's a big deal. We can make the
decisions the same timely manner with this kind of demeanor
as opposed to wed. You guys both bring a gift.

You're so lucky. Thank you. You guys are a gift though,
and your love letter of life is beautiful. Where else
can our fans follow you? Yeah, so pretty much. To
find all the irons we have in the fire, you
can just go to the roll Offs dot com y
R O L O F F one L two f's
that's the other big misspelling me with the j Jeremy,

I'll do with an ere our names on social media,
we're big on Instagram Jeremy roll Off and get their
book a love Letter of Life. You can get it anywhere. Um,
It's amazing and guys, thank you. I love you. Guys.
Please like hang out, I'm stress come to Okay, I
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furniture shopping or joy Bird the company und it All.

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your first order by using the code Janna. I love
the roll offs. They're so sweet. They're like our counterpart.
I really feel like a counterpart those that they're fantastic.

I really like them a lot um. I know this
is kind of getting a long show, but can we
just do one? Email? Mark? We got some really interesting ones,
but this one I found up particularly intriguing from Mandy
I've been with right now, you're going to pick that one? Really?
Do you not want it? You can? Mandy says that
with my boyfriend for almost four years, we are looking
to get engaged this year. We don't really have a
sex life, and that's mainly his choice. We're a very

p d A and affectionate couple. I feel loved by
him in every other way with no doubts. Backstory he
and his ex chose to have an abortion when they
were together, and he won't forgive himself for it. I
think it's really messed him up. He says he finds
me attractive. He says, when we get married, won't be
like this, And I don't know what to believe. I
feel like I've tried everything. I can't get him to
open up. And if I tried too much, he gets

very shy and closes up. Oh hm, I I mean
there's no question in there, but I mean, not having
sex for years, I don't see how, just in my
personal opinion, I don't see how when they get married

it will change. I think people. I think people said
too many expectations. When it's when we get married, this
will happen. I thought that. I thought that about myself
and issues that I dealt with. And yeah, when I
get married, on ever cheat right when I get married?

Jokes on you kid? Oh how far we come? You know,
when I get married, I won't have issues with when
I get married, I won't be passive aggressive. Just I
just feel like people think that's a fixer and it's
nothing's going to change. Yeah, Mandy, I mean, is did
she say that he's doing therapy? No, but boy, he's

crying out for it. She doesn't mention it, but I
hope he is. I know, I would just say I
would be cautious to Mary. I think he needs to
do some work on himself in therapy, because I mean,
I can understand how he's beating himself up and if
he's really worried about having another baby and then happening,
you know, are you maybe get on the pill to
make him more comfortable? I think it's it's it's kind

of something we've touched on earlier in this podcast, not today,
but in previous EPISO. That's how he's now married the
concept of sex with this incredible crushing guilt he's dealing with,
and one directly led to the other, and they're just
all in one big ball. And that's why he needs
a therapy, is to sort those things out and separate
the untangled those That's a great point. He hasn't been

able to in a healthy way compartmentalize those aspects of
the relationship and what marriage entails, and that's a point.
Give him a chance, but I would very highly suggest him,
like having him go to therapy and working through that,
because that's going to be a tough one and the
longer goes, the worst. I think it'll be too Yeah,

don't wait till you're married to try to work on that. Right.
Some argue against having a couple of therapy before you
get married, but this is a situation that really calls
out for it. You should always have. If people didn't
believe in therapy before marriage, then they're just kind of
being naive and it's like they almost don't want to

know the problems. They haven't because they just want to
have that dream of being married to that person, so
they don't want to figure out any issues. You shouldn't
have problems. The livemen together a few years every everything
should be easy. But again that's a common misconception. Well,
I learned a lot this episode about fire and the
roll offs, and you know Laura Loughlin and them going
to prison, and how about Mike just wants to take

them out back. So stay tuned, guys, stay tuned to
see who's around next week. Wind down next time, take
him out
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