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January 8, 2024 48 mins

Jana and her friends talk to Jackie Goldschneider and Jen Fessler from The Real Housewives of New Jersey for an honest discussion about Ozempic, relationships with food, and how to be vulnerable about struggles with self-image.  

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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heeart Radio Podcast. Okay,
welcome back, ladies, twenty twenty four, coming in, hot, hot,
not a breath. We got a birthday. Girl, sitting over here,
we do Happy birthday? Oh do you celebrate? What are

you doing to celebrate? I actually am being whisked away
when locally tonight? Oh sir South Hall love? I know,
just a good night away? Good are you getting? Get
me dinner? I don't know, Okay, should I not? No?
No? No No? Should I not? I can't tell by your
face if I want that. I think I want that,

But they're okay, so oh gosh, happy birthday. Tell me well,
I feel bad. I don't just say it. I go ahead.
But I love that place. It's amazing. Went with Alan
for his birthday, and then I went a time before

when I was pregnant with Pam and i'd gotten a massage,
or with Pam and pregnant, Yes, I said, when I
was pregnant with Pam, you know, yeah, yeah. And when
I got a massage, one of the guys he breathed
on me so much. No, and I was like, I

kept moving like way, you know. And at the time
I was pregnant, so I wasn't. I don't want people
to someone breathing in my face. You know you're not pregnant.
I don't want someone breathing. I'm all same. But also
I was just even more I think, a high alert
to it. Then when I went back and you know,
when you're in the waiting room and I'm thinking to myself, well,

I'm not going to get that person because that was
a prenate massage, so like I should be fine, and
then this person walks in. Now I was just like, okay,
maybe he was just having like stuff he knows that
day and wanted to breathe through his mouth and out
through his mouth. Maybe he was asthmatic. I don't know.
I'm trying to give girl, like the whole time it
was like in my face, like in my face, Like

there's very few professions that like that really matters. That's
one of them. But I know they have to breathe,
so like how so that But then my entire massage,
I'm thinking, well, how else would he be doing it
because I'm like, right, but I'm just trying to think.
I've never noticed breathing before that. Maybe it's just really close,
like are they usually that close where you can feel

their breath on you. I've had a lot of massages,
and I don't, I know, I can't think that's never
been an issue. Well, because he was or this person
went up like from underneath my back. Oh I let
you love that though. And then but so this person's
face was very close to them my face, and I
was like, and I was just like, ah, is your
face covered or your eyes? Yeah? Yeah, so I just

read and it was like doughnut FaceTime and you could
just turn verse breathe away back there, big guy. But
so that's a great place. I'm glad he's taking your way. Yeah,
it's good. What happened this morning? What do you mean?
You said you didn't sleep and you and yeah, you
guys my sweet redneck husbind I knew he was up

to something. I could hear him like really wrestling around
in the kitchen. And we always do birthday breakfast table
that's just like our little family thing. So you wake
up and the table's always big, right, so it's like
balloons or whatever, and it's like it's like almost midnight,
and I'm like hearing all the wrestling around. I cannotigure
out what's going on. I hear the garage door, I
hear it closed, I hear it open, I hear it close.

I hear the like the of like balloons like hitting
each other. And I'm like, oh, okay, he's busy. Okay,
Webster's here. He's got his little flotation devices. I'm like, okay,
that's fine. Then all of a sudden, I hear the
biggest pop, like a gunshot. He has popped a balloon.
He has a helium tank. I don't even know what
he got all of this in the garage. And then
I got nervous about like heat and cold and gas,

and I just was going back through like my science lessons.
I'm like, it's something bad gonna happen in our drop
Like I just couldn't. Anyways, Cat and I met on
Instagram at midnight. She was like over here, like, how
am I supposed to go to bed now? Because over
the break we just go to bed late. I mean,
I got older kids. We go to bed late, we
sleep in later, you know. And so I'm like sitting
here and I'm like, so I'm just like scrolling. I'm like,
I gotta go to bed. I gotta And then you

were posting. I was busy, Happy birthday to everybody. I
love you. Well, the balloon thing made me think when
because we do the same thing. I have balloons for
the kids, yeah, or you know, Alan had beautiful forty
balloons for me. And so when it was his birthday,
I'm like, well, I'm gonna get him bos too, but
I'm gonna be really stealthy about it, right, so he's
not even going to know I'm going to get the
balloons because I'm going to be home obviously with the babes.

So I sent Maggie out. And Maggie's a girl that
sometimes helps when when she's not working, and and so
I was like, hey, Maggie, you do me a huge
favorite today. Do you mind running to party sitting and
grabbing some balloons? And then when in his office, I'm
going to have you bring the balloons into the secret
room closet so he can't see them. Well, I guess

his meeting ended soon, and so there's Alan in the garage.
I'm coming out and I just see Maggie walking up
the driveway with forty three balloons, and I'm like, Maggie,
go back. But it's like, you know, which is why

I've been out of breath for the last five minutes.
And so then you know, he walks. I was like Turner,
and so it was bruined at that point, just turn
I was like, okay, fine, just keep walking up. I
can't you. Happy forty three, I literally looked at Preston
he got in bed, and I said, I really love
you and party City will never hire you. And it
was like, that's really just fair. That's just fair. Oh, guys,

Happy twenty four. We've done it. Do you guys? Are
you guys doing any resolutions this year? I mean, I
don't necessarily do resolutions, but like I try to, like,
do you pick a word? No, I just kind of like,
I mean, I guess they're resolutions. I just don't, you know,
I just start trying to get my life in order.
So my priority is for are getting your life in order?
Cat trying Kat tell everybody what you did twice yesterday

I walked by to your friend. Hey, it was like
twenty degrees. First of all, I was like, thirty, but
your health is seems to be a resolution this year. Yeah,
And honestly, I really started last year really making a
lot of changes that I just wasn't very vocal about,
but just trying with my diet and walking more. I mean,
I've been walking at home more, but like to take

two walks on one day is not something when that's
normally hold out. Yeah, but I also been taking the
dog and he's like a really good dog and he's
kind of fun to like train and work with and stuff.
So that's been kind of fun. But yeah, so health
stuff and like spending more time in the word and
you know, just stuff like that. Just that everything that
I feel like just goes. You know, it's just easy

when you get busy and everything just I'm like, okay,
everything is busy, but like I can schedule this out
and I can make it work. Yes you can. Yeah,
I love that. I'm so proud of you about y'all. Yeah,
you like to schedule. You're good at scheduling. I do
like to schedule. So we're doing something really fun this
year that I kind of want to challenge you guys
to do too, and everyone else that's listening. It's been

really fun. So sometimes you're idea in fun and my
idea of I'm tiny different. You'll like this one, okay, Okay,
she won't. Probably okay, but I hope you like it. Okay, yeah, okay.
So for resolutions, I obviously every year I've been writing
on my pad outside on or not work wherever we
write it. But on Christmas, no on New Year's Eve,

I write all the goals I look back on the
years before, going Okay, you know, have I crossed that
off yet or do I still is that still a
goal or whatever? And then kind of what's in and out,
what I'm taking the next year and when I'm leaving,
but when I also do With Alan and I, we
did a relationship one so personally what we want for
our relationship and kind of goals for us, and so

we wrote on there we said, you know, to challenge
each other because we want to, you know, challenge each
other to be the best version of ourselves. Blah blah blah.
So I go, well, wouldn't it be really cool since
it's hard for us sometimes to do our own New
Year's resolutions, what if we challenge each other every month.
So I'm the first of every month, for a week,

we have to challenge our partner to do something every
day for one week of that month. So and then
it changes and you can so you can. So I
would say to Catherine, Okay, we'll just I'll just tell
you ours so for the month of jan So for
the one week in January, from you know, January first
to January seventh, he has to do what I say. Now,

it's not like a have stuck with me every day.
You know. It has to be something that helps them
grow or helps them or or you know, if I'll
just tell you what ours so, because it'll make sense.
So his is he has to pray at dinner over
the food for one week, every dinner meal. I love.

I love it. And his for me is every morning
I have to wake up and say to him I'm
an amazing mom, I'm an amazing guy, like I have to,
which I struggle saying certain things, and so I have
to say that every day for a week. Did you
do it? I have done it. Well, it's only world
say we're on day We're on day three. So yeah,

it's hard. I started crying when he wrote down. He goes,
I want you to say this every single morning, and
I just started crying and I was like, I don't
think I'm gonna be able to do that. And he's like,
you have to great but it was sweet because that's
something that he knows that I need to work on.
And then I've seen then there's things that I you know,

I do something motivational for him to say, probably in
the next couple of months, were the area that I
need that I know he needs maybe some guidance or
not guidance, but some support around. So I don't know.
I think it's just like a really cool thing as
a couple to do together. But also I'm going to
try a version of it. Okay, I am married to
someone who will not do things in order like that.

Got it. He's not a coach with the whiteboard and
I see where this is and he doesn't have a
laptop in his lap right now. But I do think
we can do something similar, like I'm going to edit right.
But I love this and I think it's great because
it's not every day. It's the first of the month
for a week, and then maybe it becomes a habit.
Who knows that every morning, I'm not going to wake

up saying that thing, even though I should because it'll
help motivate me and whatever. But maybe you will kind
of tech. I don't think he'll pray every meal, but
at least it's getting comfortable with maybe praying or comfortable
affirming myself. So things like that, Well, I think it's
just good too, because you've got someone else, Like it's
not just what you think that you need to work on, right,

or not even work on, but that would be helpful
for ourselves to grow or whatever. It's someone else's who's
with you all the time, who sees what might be
beneficial for you that I think maybe the next month.
And then, since he doesn't listen, I'll say it. But
he doesn't ever take a break because he's always working
so hard. Every day. You have to do something for
a week for yourself for one hour. That's they can

not involve work. It has to be sitting still or
watching or just something. Yeah. Yeah, So anyways, but we
have some amazing guests coming on. I'm excited. Agay. We've
got Jackie and Jennifer coming on. They've got a podcast
called The Two Jays Two Jersey, Two Jersey Jays their

housewives on Real Housewives of Jersey. So let's take a
break and then get them on. Hi. Hi, nice to

meet you. But I'm so excited. I love it, so
are we you guys? Are adorable. Thank you for coming on.
I love that that we're all on. iHeart and you've
got a podcast, Two Jersey Jays, which is so fun,
and the last couple episodes, you know, you guys have
really put it out there and in very authentic ways,

and so we appreciate that very much. And a lot
of the topics too we we talk about on here
and so yeah, so we're just we're happy to have
you on. So thank you. Well we are big fans
as well. Mutual admiration. Thank you. So we're actually talking
about you know, uh, New Year's resolutions and health and

prioritizing our health and what we're doing, and we're Kat
and I are actually starting a what are you going
to do with us Pam's program? I am not okay,
I'm doing my own. We've got a friend that grows
the abs in our sleep right now. She's incredible and
I'm just a little bit maybe behind, so maybe I'll
catch the next cycle. But you guys both have been

very open about your journey, you know, with with a
weight loss and then struggling with with an eating disorder.
So first of all, is that something that even though
there's how do I say this, there's they're different, but
they're still the same with struggles. So is that something
that you guys have come together on with that? Yeah,

I think that we can appreciate more the struggles that
each other has because we've had We've each had our own.
So Jen hasn't had the eating disorder that I've had,
but she's had her own issues with with weight and
eating disorder is a totally different one. So because of
our our shared history with both struggling, you know, with

this weird relationship with food and body image, I think
we can appreciate what the other one is going through. Yeah,
they definitely we are. You know, eating to sort ofs
take all different kinds of forms, and I think, just
like a lot of like addictions or like an anxiety
disorder versus a depression, it's all sort of under the

same umbrella, right, but it may not take the exact
same direction. So in my twenties up into my early thirties,
I was severely bliemic, and Jackie never really struggled with
bolimia as much as anorexia. So, Jen, so are you
are you currently on ozembic or you've taken it before,

You're semi glue tide. Okay, so I have several Yeah,
I have several friends that take a form of it.
I mean I've got friends who've lost over one hundred pounds.
I mean that swear by it. You know, couldn't get
off of it, just because it's changed their life so
much from being overweight their entire life. But I on

the yet flip side where Jackie has spoken out about,
you know, I always worry about the likelihood of that
turning into an eating disorder. And I know, Jackie you've
kind of spoken about that, but tell us a little
bit your thoughts on that, because, like I worry about
my friends. I'm like, at what point do you literally
have to stay on it for the rest of your
life and you just hardly ever eat or you come

off and then you're like, oh wait, you have to
starve yourself. Like how do you feel about that? Yeah, well,
I feel I have a number of concerns. So I
understand why people would be on it, and I think
it's wonderful for people who have, you know, binge eating
disorder or are obese and really need this medication to
change their life. What makes me nervous is, you know,

I have skin in the game when it comes to
eating disorders. I know how they destroy your life. I
know how they creep into every aspect of your life.
So my concern is that, you know, this drug hasn't
been around for that long for non diabetic patients, so
we don't really know, oh how it affects your body
when you don't have diabetes. So my concern is that

in a few years from now, they're going to start
seeing side effects that they didn't see it first, and
people are going to have to go off these drugs,
and what then You're going to have all these people
who are suddenly going to wake up and realize that
they want to stay thin and they don't know how
to do that now without these drugs, and you're going
to have all of these people with newly formed eating disorders.

That's that's one concern of mine. And also, when you're
taking these drugs and you know, your appetite is a
fraction of what it was when you're going for your
like one meal a day or however much you're eating.
Most people that I know who are on these drugs
are not looking for like a well balanced like Broccolian

protein and ratio to carbon fiber. They're eating like whatever
they feel like eating because they can for the first
time in their life. And so you're having a lot
of people with a severe amount of muscle loss and
a lot of malnutrition, and that's going to start to
show in you know, a few months a year from now. Yeah,

I mean, that's that's kind of what I've seen from
my friends is the same. Like the food that they
are eating is not nutritious. And I mean, I'm very
guilty of eating not the best foods and I'm you know,
I don't eat the healthiest, but that that's my concern
when they come off of it. So, Jennifer, so how
do you do? You try to eat just balanced? So
when you do you plan on coming off of it? Like,

what's your plan with it? So? Well, firstly, I'm not
I'm not really scared of the long term effects. I
for whatever reason, I think medications come out when they're
approved for weight loss. I kind of I'm going to
trust the FDA. Maybe that's naive. I'm not saying that
it's not. It's just where I come from. So I'm

not really that concerned about the long term effects. And
I plan on staying on it. Yeah, my dosage is
lower than it used to be, but I'm not in
a hurry to come off it. I had an issue
with it at the beginning because I was doing what
you described. I was eating for the first time in
my life. I was eating, surviving on bagels and pizza

and not really losing weight, but also having this freedom
right like I never got to do that my entire life.
The obsession and the noise in my head over what
I was eating and how much of it and how
much I should loathe myself for it, it was just
always there. So for the first time, I those that

the noise quieted down and I could eat what I wanted,
still lose weight and not binge in the way that
I had my whole life. But those are not the
instructions that come along with these medications, and there are
specific instructions like you know, change your habits. You've got
to drink water because sometimes there are issues. There are

gastro intestinal issues and tip my doctor said take me
or last I ignored all of it, and I had
an issue you with my bowel and it was not
pleasant at all. Having said that, I'm still on it,
I have not had an issue because now I am
doing things very differently just in terms of and I'm eating.
The way that I eat now is not the way

I ate when I was on I mean, there's so
many diets, weight watchers or what. The way that I
eat eat now is maybe more how a naturally thin
person eats, but also a conscious thin person. So you know,
I may have I don't know, a bagel in the morning,
but now I'm making short lunch to have vegetables and
fiber and protein because you also do lose muscle. Jackie's right,

So I'm you know, I enjoyed that first part of
it where I was like, wow, you know, party time,
I keep whatever I want. It's different now, and I'm
much more conscious of it than I was. I have
heard from a lot of people that the relationship with
food has changed, but so I don't know how it's
working for like in your inner circle. But I think
the big this issue that I have like kind of

come to understand here because I really did dive into this,
so I too struggled with bolimia for like a lot
of years. I think I think you're right, it's associated
with anxiety. The control for me always right, like I
could be the boss of that when I could be
the boss of nothing. But I started really researching it
because we like especially in like my husband's in the
music industry. I've seen a lot of it in our

music industry specifically. I started to understand that there's just
a lot of people going and being injected by people
that maybe aren't qualified maybe to give the injections. They're
not doing like proper blood work to know if there
even is any sort of like resistance to insulin or whatever,
to see if it even works for your body. So
I've had a lot of friends be really super sick

for weeks at a time. Did the person that's administering
it to you, like, did you do any of the
blood work that they kind of go over all of
that with you. I did it at the beginning, and
I still do it every month, so yeah there, Yeah,
I mean I go to someone who is the person
that I see is a physician's assistant in conc hacked
with the physician. So I always have to go and

I have I stand on that thing where you put
your thumbs like this and it measures your body fat
and your muscle mass, and then I get my blood
drawn to you know, see what the levels are. I'm
also fifty five years old, so I'm in menopause and
I'm taking through the same office. I'm taking hormones, so
that's really heavily regulated as well, so I'm constantly just

giving my blood out all the time. Well, and the
testosterone too, does change like testosterone imbalance and estrogen imbalance,
Like it does change our metabolism so much. I know
that personally. Right now, we're postpartum six months and they
just did the blood draw and the hormones are like
helping me metabolize differently too, which is crazy, right right. Well,
you know what scares me though, is like, you know,

because of my history, I'm looking at this a little
bit differently, and I'm looking ahead and saying, so where
are we going? You know, like every day there's more
and more people on this. Is it one day going
to be completely unacceptable to be overweight because there are
all these drugs at your fingertips? Is it gonna be okay?
For Like, I've got a thirteen year old daughter, Like

if she starts to hate her body and sees everybody
in the world on these drugs losing weight, you know
they're currently in review with the FDA to be approved
for minors. Like what then, like, so what one day
everybody is going to be skinny and it's going to
be unacceptable to be overweight, and you're gonna have to
give up your healthy relationship with food in order to

fit in. I just it scares me where it's going,
because I just went through this overwhelming recovery to land
back on this side of things, and just to see
the whole world going in a different direction, which I
one hundred percent everything that Jackie says. I mean, that's
why we can have this discussion because I respect everything
she's saying as I think she does I have to say,

and I totally get where she's coming from. I also
see it as there's so many morbidly open, these people
who have not been able to get relief from that
addiction of compulsive overeating. Right, That's not who I'm talking
about though, Yeah, So, I mean, but you can differentiate,
like let's say that everybody's going to get thinner as

opposed to everyone there's so many that are or people
that are like myself. I am. I come from eating disorder.
I'm a big drinker. I've talked about this quite a bit,
and I back when years ago, i'd actually been checked
myself into an outpatient program because I was really worried
about my relationship with alcohol and I was that sort

of mommy juice thing that was going on. And I
haven't I felt like that in a long time. But
since I started taking semi glue Tide, I feel almost
like an aversion to it, and I don't. I'm not
interested in on a nightly basis pouring wine or really

wine at all. For whatever reason, I still drink, but
it's so much different than it was, and now they're
saying that it's really going to help with addiction. I
hope I get your point, though, Jackie, because I feel
like even Kat, you struggled with wanting and it's like Cat,
I think you look great, you know, and it's like,
why do you think you have to be skinnier like
or because it's like you, You're like, you look great.

My problem is is I feel I agree with but
both of y'all are saying same, like, yeah, legitimately, both
of y'all completely like I would love to get on it.
Cut my appetite in half because I have a huge appetite.
When I want to eat, I want to eat bad
and you know, but on the other hand, I think
of my daughters and I think of this is not
what I would ever ever want for them. And I

don't want a world where everyone is just has to
be skinny, like guess what, Like you know, everyone has
different bodies. But I also see my friends who were
two three hundred pounds who needed to lose that one
hundred plus. But you know, so it's like, that's my
struggle is I agree just wholeheartedly with what both of
y'all are saying, and so I've just I mean, I'm
not on it, haven't gotten on it, but I'm also

not against getting on it, you know. So we like that,
like when you guys agree with both of us, Yeah,
you genuinely do. People see both sides of this. Most
people do, and that's the struggle is you don't want
to want it, but a lot of people I appreciate
you sharing well both of you guys too, But Jennifer,
I feel like a lot of people go, oh my gosh,

how did they lose that weight? And it's like you
being vocal about it, going Okay, yes, I had help
and I'm changing my habits. But when we look at
people in the media, going, man, they lost that weight
so fast, and like, what am I doing wrong? And
then you start to doubt yourself. But then it's like, hey,
if you're saying you're being vocal about something, and then
it's like, okay, they had help too. Well. The flip

side is like, these wrinkles don't go away by themselves.
I do boto, you know what I mean. But I
do think the flip side of that is now, anytime
anyone loses a substantial amount of weight, we just assume
they're lying way this way, and everyone thinks that he's
on like some injection, and I'm like, no, he's actually
just fine only at almost fifty, like cleaning up his
diet and eating correctly, and you know, men, you know,

always lose it fast. Anyways, it's sorry anxious, But Jackie
and I were talking about in our last podcast. It
was about plastic surgery, and it was about this attitude
that like, you know, before you have plastic surgery, you
should try everything right. So let's say you want a
Tommy tuck, you shouldn't. You should first try to exercise
or that that's sort of like right. The popular belief

is that try exercise, try dieting, and if you just
have the skin left, let's say from the pregnancy, then
maybe it's okay to have a tummy tuck. There's this
whole thing about like deserving plastic surgery, so people, I think,
tend to lie about it because for whatever reason, there's
this pervasive feeling in this country that you know it's

you're doing something sneaky and wrong. It feels like that
for me about ozempa two it I don't for whatever reason.
I'll tell you every plastic surgery I've had, and we
would need a lot of time for me to cover.
I also tell you about ozebic. I don't have a
lot of shame around these things. But I think that
people think that the easy way out is the wrong
way out. I like the easy way out, Jackie. I

want to ask you one more question in the in
the health space, because I'm seven weeks postpartum and I
stopped weighing myself, probably about I don't know, oh gosh.
I used it as a control method to stay under
a certain number, and when I'd go over that number,
I mean I would be depressed all day long. I

wouldn't eat I until I got back and it could
be a point five or one pound difference. I mean
that's water, you know, And I know that in my
right brain, like I'm very well aware that that number
is you know, one pound is not a big deal,
but I mean I would be so depressed that entire day.
So I got a scale again because when I was pregnant,

I wanted to know how much I was gaining. So
then post pregnancy for the past seven weeks, I mean
I got to the place again where I've been addicted
to going, Okay, I want to get back to my
pre pregnancy weight. But then now I'm like, oh, well,
let's see how if I can go back to even
before the pre pre pregnancy of like when I was,
you know, pregnant with my first child and I was like, oh,

this is this is this is the piece that's like
not not good. I'm like, I gotta either get rid
of the scale, but I'm like I don't want to
yet because I want to. So I'm just like, what
do you what would you tell someone that kind of
because I mean, I don't think I have a I
know I don't, but I also I think I have
a little control and a little I want to get
back to feeling good and looking good. But the number,

for some reasons, always messed me. This scale is such
a loaded issue for me because for a really long time.
So I've been in recovery now for like a little
over two years, and the first and a half of it,
my party line was that, like my hard line was
that I am not weighing myself ever, because I can't

pate a number that I don't know, and like you,
I was so addicted to like every half pound would
set me off in a different direction. And when I
was really sick, it was very obsessive for me, the
rituals that went into weighing myself. I had to feel thin,
I couldn't have one extra ounce on my body. Everyone

had to leave me alone in my room for like
a half an hour. I had to do several different
weigh ins on several different areas of the floor. It
was like sick and too much, And so I still
have not weighed myself since May of twenty twenty one,
but I have been having a lot of conversations with
my dietitian and therapist, who I still speak to once

a week each about getting back on this scale, and
they both think it's a horrible idea, But I I
feel like I want to know, just something in me
wants to know how much I've gained and wants to
see what happens, because I'm at this place where I'm
about like seventy five percent recovered, and I have this

twenty five percent of these old habits that I'm scared
to let go of. Nothing anorexia. I am not anorexica anymore.
I don't restrict like that anymore. There's just things that
I'm scared of, and a big overriding fear is gaining
too much weight if I like let go of certain
habits because I've already gained a fair amount of weight,
so I feel like if I weigh myself, I could
stay on top of that. But I haven't because my

dietician and my therapist think that it's a horrific idea.
They said that almost like a relapse, right, Yeah, Like
people who have been addicted to the scale like that,
they don't tend to just like let go of all
those addictions, you know, because they've moved on in life.
Like it's I've had such an unhealthy relationship with the scale.

They're scared of me like adding back issues into my
life by, you know, by focusing on a number instead
of on how I feel. Do you think that twenty
five percent is what wants you on the scale or
is it the seventy five percent that is challenging that
you are recovered? That's a really good question. I think

that if I was truly recovered and in a really
healthy place, I wouldn't need to know a number. So
I think it's the twenty five percent of sickness that's left.
I just resonate so much with what I mean, what
both of you are saying. It's crazy. So I worked
out really really hard after I had my son five
years ago. It was the first time I've always been
a and I this is I sometimes feel like shame

saying this, but I've always been a fairly like thin person.
I've always been a runner, pretty thin boned, like you know.
And then after my son, I really just needed muscle
because he was such a meatball. I could barely carry
him without my back hurting. So then I got kind
of in the workout space and I started gain muscle.
I'd never had muscle in my life. And this is
so I had muscle and felt pretty good about my body,

which I think is what got me pregnant again because
I was feeling all up in myself. But then after
we had this baby, I've lost so much muscle because
I had like a tailbone issue with delivery. And I
have to tell you, this is the first time in
my life I don't take people say that I look thin,
and it's not a compliment to me. It's actually like
angering me because I had worked so hard to be

in a healthy space and be like toned, and I
felt so strong and I've never felt strong, and I
don't feel strong right now, and so it's like defeating
to me when I hear thin. So I identify so
much with your seventy five twenty five in that that
I'm like, you know, there's a part of me that's like, oh,
that's like something I haven't heard in forever. And then
I'm like, well, what do people think I was fat before?

You know? And then there's this other part of me
that is like angry because I'm like, no, man, I
worked my ass off for that, you know, I worked
my ass off to have an ass for once in
my life so frustrating, and in this world that we
live in where you just can't it's like hard to
just be can tent having a healthy, beautiful body, no
matter what that looks like, you know. And my husband

says to me, He's like, why can't you just go
buy how your clothes fit you? But you know, the
twenty years of anorexia left me with a fair amount
of body dysmorphia, so I never feel like my clothes
are not to fight, even when they're loose. I put
them on, I'm like, wait, is this tight? Does that
feel tight? Did this fit me like this last week?
So I can't. I can't go by that either, And
I just some parts of me want just some kind

of measure so that I can like weigh myself and
be like, Okay, nothing this week and move on. But
I know that's not the way I work. I know
that if I gain weight, it's going to ruin my day,
my week, my month, you know. So I'm just worried
about what might happen if I get on that scale.
What is your biggest what would you say is your
biggest discovery when you did recovery for the eating disorder? Like,

what did you for both of you. Yeah, was there
anything like sneaky maybe that you didn't think would be
a reason you were doing what you're doing? And you
were like, WHOA, I'm blown away by discovering that. Unlike Jackie,
I didn't sort of like address it head on and
seek out help and get a therapist. Honestly, I had kids,
and the guilt from going into the bathroom to throw

up overwhelmed me, and I just, I don't know, it
just all of a sudden, I just couldn't do it anymore,
and my way went up and down, and I just
still couldn't bear the thought of having these kids outside
the bathroom and doing this horrible thing, you know, to myself.
And I'm not saying I think that's what happened. I

you know, I'm not. I don't know for sure, but
the believe me, you sort of stopped when I had
my babies. But the compulsive overeating has gone on for years,
and I had little instances in my thirties, but the
binge eating has been an issue and never stopped. Like
my friends would laugh about it, we'd be together, and

I just I wouldn't stop eating to the point where
it didn't matter. I don't even I didn't even know
what full would. I didn't even know what full felt like, right,
and then the other side of that, and then the
next day would be starvation. But anyway, which is another
form of beliema. I'm going on. I don't know how
I sort of stopped that purging. I think it was
just for whatever reason, I got lucky once I had kids.

I don't know what I discovered either, except that it sucks.
Like you guys, well who knows. Somebody there said that
they were bliemic. I was, yeah, it sucks, right, It's
just so violent and horrible and so punishing and so
punishing for me. There was a lot of things I discovered.
I mean, my entire life was about starvation. So when

I started eating again, I was like a child, you know. So,
I guess one of the things that really amazed me
was I used to do this thing when I was anorexic,
where I would try to subsist on like the lowest
calorie food I could all day. So I was constantly hungry,
and I was constantly working to shut down my hunger.
But like I would eat like lettuce out of the

bag as a meal or like an apple was like
an indulgence. So I was constantly hungry and I was
constantly chasing hunger. So now I know this sounds so simplistic,
but if you ever had an eating disorder, you can
relate to this. I when I eat a meal and
it's you know, it's it's very foreign to me to

eat a high calorie meal and then to feel full
and stay full, and it amazes me. So if I
go out to like a lunch and I eat, you know,
more than I ever would have, still not a crazy meal,
but to be full for like five six hours after
that and not think about where's my next meal and
what am I going to eat and I'm so hungry

is still an amazing like feeling to me. To feel
full and not have to eat between meals. That's number one. Also,
there was a lot of foods that I hadn't tried ever,
because I started to when I was in high school.
So I had never had a lot of foods that
are like totally normal to other people. So I am

eating them for the first time in my entire life.
And I thought that there's some foods that I thought
that I would absolutely love that I was like all right,
not great, and other foods that I just cannot get
enough of that I am like, where have you been
all my life? Like what? Like I went to dinner
with my friends a few weeks ago and then we

all ordered dessert and I had a canoli for the
first time in my life, and I thought it was
just okay, Well, yeah, I thought that that was kind
of dry and the cream was like fine, but like
you didn't have a good one then, and my friends
at the people were like, I don't think these are

the best canolis, and I said, well, I have nothing
to compare it to, so that's so funny. But like
I ate a tuna fish sandwich and I like almost cried.
I mean, it was like the best thing I've ever
had in my life. I eat tune fish for mayonnaise
and put some extra pickles on there with morella. It's
so good. I will say. I semi relate to that
because I never had a chocolate croissant because I'm like, oh,

this is too high in calories. So when I went
to London last year, it's the first time I ever
had a chocolate croissant. Now I was like, this is
the best thing I've ever read in my entire life,
and I was like, man, any time I got to Starbucks,
I'm like chocolate croissant. Yeah, warmed up. Thanks Okay, So
thank you guys obviously for being vulnerable. And that's what
you guys listening are going to be able to hear

on their two Jersey Jays podcast. But I want to
talk a little bit about the Housewives too, because you
guys are friends of on the Jersey Housewives. Now, while
I'm listening to all of this and knowing how people are,
especially fans of that show, is there a piece of
you that's worried about how that might affect you mentally

with everything that you guys also struggle with too, because
we're I don't know. For me, I'm like, Okay, I
struggle with anxiety or depression. At times. I'm like, I'm thinking,
all right, if I'm on this show and then I'm
getting either hate or comments, I just feel like that
would feed my struggles. Yeah it does. I mean abouly

I've been I've suffered with anxiety for years. Each I've
been on medication for what twenty five years, maybe even
a little bit more so. Anxiety comes with being being
on the Housewives. You can't escape it. No one does,
right jack I don't think anyone escapes it. But also
just the awareness of your physicality, right, like I went on,

this is only my set. Jackie knows a lot more
about this and I do. She's been on a lot longer.
But you know, doing my first season, seeing myself back,
you know the criticisms in my head. And I was
always after the first season, I got a face left
and a nose job. But that was coming. That was
I had been interviewing doctors for five years before I

ever being on was ever even a thought. But certainly
it adds a pressure, right to look a certain way.
I mean, these women don't play. They keep themselves together.
A lot of them are my age, and across the board,
across all the franchises. I mean, I was watching Ultimate

Girl's Trip, No, the Legacy one. I don't know if
you guys watch, Oh anyway, the women are do you
guys watch? I do? Yeah? Their bodies these are women
are some are even older than me. Their bodies are insane,
and of course that leads to comparison. And when you're
on it, you get a lot of Like I got
a lot of like she looks like a man or

her ears are weird, old hag and people are mean.
People are so mean. Yeah, like you literally, I can't
even believe you're fifty five. Like I was like, would
you want to send me the list of things you've
been up to? Because I mean, you're just beautiful. Both
of you are just so. But it goes to doctor
Sam Risk just saying yeah, but your energies are so

great and you're just like people are just ruthless. Oh yeah,
I could never do it. But either way, you're like,
sign up, let's do it. You know, it's my first
few years on the show were really rough, and I
read all the comments and everything, but now I've settled
into a place where it's very different. The show is
very different for me now. First of all, it did
help me recover, so it's a total twist to the story.

But I don't think I would have recovered if I
was the only one holding myself accountable. So having the
show so then I could do this on a public
stage was really helpful to me. But I have also,
you know, I've been on this for six years, and
friend or no friend, the social media stays the same.
I've learned to stop reading the comments. I don't. I
don't check social media that much anymore. I mean, I

still do, but I'm not as like crazy with it.
I've kind of tried to just find find a place
in the show that feels good for me. I like
being a friend for now. I don't know what'll happen
in the future, but the friend role, I think is
a little easier on your life. Gives you more space
to step away from the social media, and you know

it can become all encompassing, So if you find a
way to step back from it a little bit, I
think that's really helpful. Yeah, And was it hard on
your marriage, Jackie going through all of that. Obviously, that
one season was very hard in my marriage. Well, my
husband didn't want to do the show at first, so
the very beginning was a little bit hard, and then

he realized it wasn't so bad and we settled in,
and then we had two really fun seasons, and then
my third season was really really hard. And we are
not fighters. We don't fight with each other. We love
having like a really happy household, and we were fighting,
like he was upset, he was pissed. I couldn't do
anything about it. The social media was really hard. It
was crying a lot, so that was tough on us.

But then you know, like everything resolved and we've been fine.
I mean we've been fine, Like we're great. We have
a great marriage. But like he hasn't had any issue.
I think he likes me being a friend. You know,
we've talked about what would happen if I was to
go back full time. But for now, we're good. We're

good like this, but yeah, we're It hasn't been hard
except for that one season good. And then you guys
for your podcast, I mean, were you guys because you
guys were friends obviously like on the show, right, Yeah, yes,
we're like closest to friends. Yeah, so doing the podcast
was an easy thing, just like hey, let's just talk
about talk about it all. I mean, we surprisingly, I

guess it just has been so easy. It's just like
Jackie and I just shooting the I mean, I'm sure
you guys feel like that too. Yeah, and you have
difference as opinions too, which is great too, different because
we all don't agree, you know, but it's not a
Housewives episode, you know what I mean, Like we're not
we're not gonna you know, scream up entities at each
other and go for the jugular. We're two grown ass

women who respect each other and love each other, so
it's it's an easier thing, right, And we're talking about
issues that although there's an eight, there's an age spread.
So Jackie is forty seven and I'm fifty five. But
the things that are coming up for us now, I
think it's interesting, like her perspective at forty seven versus mine,

and both of us are you know, in a place
though where unlike you guys, like we don't have babies,
we're in a different stage of life, and so things
that are really we find interesting you know, they resonate
with both of us usually, so we have a lot
to talk about. You know, our lives are changing. I've
been through some stuff that Jackie's going through now, you know,

so there's not there's not a shortage of topics and
things that you know, we want to sort of discuss,
would you caree, jack Yeah, I mean we're we're just
started and we have like it's really fun because every
day we get these new ideas and we call each
other and we're like, what about this, what about that?
And what about this person, and so it's fun to
have this new project in our lives that we're both

so passionate about and to do it together. It's really great.
And Jen's really smart and witty, and you know, I
wrote a parenting column for the newspaper for many, many years,
so I love coming up with ideas and finding things
to talk about. So it's it's in both of our wheelhouses.
We're really excited. That's awesome. Well, Jenna Jackie, thank you
guys so much for coming on a wind out about
everyone listening. Go listen to Iheartradios podcast to Jersey Jays. Thanks,

thank you guys, Thanks girls, appreciate you. Bye bye. I
love it when people are just open, authentic and honest
about things. She's so GREATS twelve. I don't know what's happening.
I don't know what's happening in Jersey, but everyone's time
machine and then my button went in two just came on. Yeah.
Well it's like they say the Housewives, I mean, everyone is.

I feel like everyone's that way now too, but like
look at our world, like she just said, everyone's fifty five,
and look what they look like, you know, So it's
like this comparison world and everybody's trying to but they
look great. But also people I do think are just
taking like better care of themselves, like you know, like
I was talking to Orob actually deep topics with the ob,

but I felt, you know, like they label us as
geriatric when we're like thirty five or older. And she
was like, what's interesting to me is that like literally
like ninety percent of the people coming in right now.
Maybe that's not true, but she did say a lot
of them were older. Yeah, And I think it's just
because we are, like I think we know more and
we just take better care of our bodies, and I
think that we are like less likely to look older

because we're all just like I don't know, eating and nourishing,
healing our minds right to heal our hearts. Yeah right, Yeah,
But I like when people in that age group do
podcast because I feel like, I don't know about you guys,
but I don't have like a lot of mentor people
in the like fifties, like late forties, fifties, even sixties.

So it's like nice to me when I can tune
into somebody that's lived a little more life. Yeah, I
want to listen to because so many of my friends
have younger kids. I don't really have many friends that
have teenagers. They have a teenager starting to have that
relationship with those two women, right, Yeah, I'm trying, you know,
I'm trying to like make some friendships where it's like, okay,

let's talk about high school, like, you know, we just
hit nothing. But I got you know, I truly don't.
I'm not really friends with any of his parents for
whatever reason. I don't know if because he's the I
don't know, you know. I am with the girls parents,
but not him. So yeah, so I'm trying to get
those But it'd be great to listen to stuff because
they've gone through, you know, that age group and there's

just so much that comes up that it's like, wait,
I don't have anybody to talk to you about that.
Oh I'm relying on you cat, yeah, all the older ages.
Then that was a good I liked that conversation because
it's like they made me want to listen to their
podcasting for sure. Well, and it's like they disagree and
can disagree very nicely and have a conversation and I

agree with both of them, you know, And it was
just a really great conversation. I enjoyed it well, first
podcast back in the new year. Happy being chop ladies.
This is fun and I'll see you next week Sea
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