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January 18, 2024 30 mins

Did you know there’s a way to soothe your body AND your mind in mere minutes?? Jana talks to Dr. Jennifer Taitz for some tips on what we can do to help our bodies when we feel stressed and tense. 

Find out how a a “practice” panic attack could help you, and hear some easy coping mechanisms to deal with stress. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heart Radio Podcast.
All Right, this week's Thursday Therapy. We've got doctor taits on.
She's a clinical psychologist in New York and California. She
has a new book coming out, Stress Reset, How to
soothe your body and mind in minutes. Let's get her on.
Hey girl, Hi, it's nice to meet you. Nice to
me too, So I hear we have a mutual friend.

(00:22):
I too. I was like, You're so happy that we're
talking about this. I know. I got a text this
morning and I was like, Oh, why is doctor Drunker
texting me? And I'm like, by the way, people listening,
Doctor Unger is my boob surgeon. He's a plastic surgeon
here in Nashville. But I was like, ah, he's probably
checking in to see how my postpartum boobs are. But
and I was like, oh no, he's like he's a

(00:45):
happy New Year, hope all as well. He's a small world.
You're having a guest in your podcast, Jenny. She's a
she's married to my best friend from growing up. And
I'm like, oh my gosh, that's so cool. What a
small world. Yes, I'm excited to talk to you and
it does feel like we're already friends. I know, I
love that. But I was reading your bio last night
and a few things. I know you have a new

(01:07):
book out. It's called Stress Reset, How to Soothe your
Body and Mind in Minutes. But I was also when
I was reading just again your bio, your breakdown. You're
also the author of How to Be Single and Happy,
science based strategies for keeping your sanity while looking for
a soulmate, and I just was like, wow, this is you.
Just You've got it all. So I'm just I want
to dive into your book. But can we also talk

(01:28):
about that one too, because I think a lot of
people would want to hear the you know, what that
book is about, and then the strategies for just being
happy in a moment when you probably are not where
you want to be. You know, I would love to
talk to that book. Thank you. Perfect. So okay, so
let's start with because when I read that, I'm like, Okay,
how to soothe your body and mind in minutes? I

(01:50):
was like, all right, just how because sometimes and I
will say, my body is my first indicator when I
don't feel safe, and I just go to that place
of either past trauma or something. But for me, it's
how do you regulate the body when you are being
triggered by something that is activating you. Janna, this is

(02:13):
a big question, and I just want people to know
from the get go this is all things that you
can do in minutes. There's no long meditations, big medications
or martinis required. And I include seventy five different tools
because different things work for different people. And so if
we think about it, stress or any emotion really has

(02:33):
three components. There's really distressing thinking, Then there's physical sensations
understandably that come with really negative thoughts, whether it's muscle
tension or scowling or your heart racing. And then there's behaviors,
so sending an aggressive text or yelling or canceling or avoiding.
And so by being really mindful of each of those

(02:54):
three compartments or components and then intervening at each angle
from mind, body to behavior, we have a whole buffet
of options. And so like different genes work well for
different people and fit better on you have a favorite,
there are a lot of options, and so specifically for body,
let's say one of my favorites is it seems so simple,

(03:16):
but it's really subtle and profound at the same time.
But a lot of times when we're angry, if we're
sitting in traffic and like someone is moving five miles
per hour in front of us, or you're in like
a really long line, when you're in a huge rash
and guessing that you are tensing your whole face, and
that is probably like almost tipping into attention headache. And
if you do something as simple as a half smile,

(03:39):
which is really a quarter of a smile, which is
you know, ever so slightly amaizing your lips, that automatically
like releases tension in your face, and that creates an
ambience that's more conducive to being more accepting. And so
just from the outside and relaxing your face will automatically
like kind of quiet judgmental thoughts and allow you to

(04:00):
practice more acceptance. So that's just one of very many
that I personally am trying to do that all the time.
And again, there's so many options. How do you do
that though, when you're so angry, or you're hurt, or
you're broken, or you're because I can imagine again, something
was really hard that I was dealing with, just you know,
a few weeks ago, and it's like if someone told

(04:23):
me just a smile to fix out it that there's
no there's like my body's like shaking, you know what
I mean, Like how do you change? Like is it?
Are we talking? And just because I'm like yes, like
you said, it sounds it sounds simple, but at the
same time, it sounds also hard when you're in that
moment where you're where you're so your body is so
taken over by stress or anxiety. And I'm so happy

(04:47):
that you raised that, because this is not the thing
to do if you're angry for a good reason, or
the anger is serving you, if your anger is serving you,
if you're angry at someone that disappointed you, your face
is the best community cater that is providing the other
person like very powerful information. And so we don't want
to do this. I would never recommend suppressing or just

(05:08):
like smiling through it. This is if you you know
you're in traffic and fighting is just going to give
you a migraine, not improve the situation. But if someone
pissed you off, then I would not say like half
smile through it. I would say there's there's so many
other things. I mean it's we could totally dive into
the details of why what this person did, but it
might be giving the benefit of the doubt. It might

(05:30):
be asserting yourself. And there's like a really practical, user
friendly recipe that I teach in the book on exactly
how to assert yourself that you could use, like as
a template to plug and play different situations into. But yeah,
different different tools for different times. And if someone really
pissed you off, I would not say half smile is
your tool. No, no, and no one, No one pissed

(05:52):
me off. It was more just you know, I think stress,
postpartum hormones, all the things. You just I'm a little
probably more tense than I normally am, you know. And
so that's where in that moment, I'm like, oh, it'd
be tough to smile or to do the you know,
the lift of the lip. But like, is there anything
else that in your book too, where you talk about, okay,

(06:14):
how to ease your mind a little bit in those
situations of stress or yeah, yeah, when you are postpartum.
And I'm so grateful that you're doing this in such
a busy time. I think, really taking a minute. I
love the skill of self validation really normalizing the normal,
because a lot of times we might feel angry and

(06:37):
then stack onto that like I should feel happy, I
should be grateful, or what's wrong with me? And I
think just normalizing like it is really exhausting and it's
really understandable to not feel like your best self when
sleep is compromised. That automatically spikes cortisol levels and affects
your ability to think clearly and compromises your ability to
feel great. And so even just the act of knowing

(06:59):
like it makes sense to feel this way and it's
okay to feel this way, I don't need to judge that.
I don't need to also believe the things that I'm
thinking in this state, because it's a real problem to
believe everything you think when you're feeling really lousy and
you're not sleeping enough. Do you have tips in the
book to how to combat the snowball effective stress where

(07:21):
it's you? Because for me, I know I do this.
When one thing stresses me out, fifty things will then
stress me out. And it's not even and I'm normally
never stressed about the twenty nine, thirtieth or fortieth thing,
But when I'm stressed about one like I compile everything together.
Do you have anything for that? Yes, And so that
is something that we all do, and a lot of

(07:41):
us do this in crazy, you know, comical ways. You know.
I just remember when I was postpartum. I was really
stressed and overwhelmed going back to work, and I was
like literally just thinking about all the things I had
to do and how I had no energy and how
I had no time. And then I started mindlessly picking
at my fingernail and little did I know that when

(08:05):
you are postpartum your compromised. And so I developed a
crazy antibiotic resistant infection that like required minor surgery and
multiple visits with infectious disease. And so literally, I think
this is everything, Like when we are really stressed, we
think in ways that make things much more stressful, and

(08:25):
we act in ways like it was so ironic. I
was like, I don't have time, and then here I
am with like five follow up visits to different doctors
and sitting in the er for many hours. And so
I think, even there's so many things, but one very
specific thing is just labeling I'm in emotion mind, I'm
not in reasonable mind, which is just the facts. I'm

(08:48):
not in wise mind, which is where my head and
heart are aligned. But I'm in emotion mind like that
automatically gives you a little bit of working distance from
taking your thoughts. So seriously, if like it's the middle
of the night and you hear a no ways emotion mind,
like that does not mean that you're about to be
you know, broken in your house is about to be robbed,
Or if you're afraid of flying rather than thinking turbulence

(09:12):
is a sign that you're in harm's way, taking a
second to realize, like, no, no emotion mind, this is
my fear of flying. Not a crash is coming. I mean,

(09:36):
you bring up flying and I'm probably the worst flyer
there is, just because I don't like turbulence. I don't
like to know. Okay, I would love to sit next
to the pilot the entire time, and like are we good?
Is this good? I think you just help. You're at
a loss of control too, because it's it's in their
hands and you don't know what's going on or the
weather or anything like that. So uh with that aspect

(09:59):
of things too, Like I tend to overthink a lot
of things in my brain, like does not shut off
at times I know you say, you know there's you
can do this in a minute. So and instead of
having doing a meditation or quieting the mind, is there,
what can you do for the overthinking of just like
stopping your brain from just overacting when you're afraid on planes?

(10:22):
Can I ask what specifically comes up for you, like
what are your thoughts, what are the sensations in your body?
I know you said your urge is to just check
in to make sure everything's okay. I don't like I
don't like feeling trapped that comes from a PTSD situation
from when I was nineteen. I do not like the
feeling of being trapped. I also don't like the fact

(10:44):
that if something were to happen, well, I think it's
gotten worse as a mom. So when I had kids,
really to start to paint the picture, like, oh my god,
if something happens and I'm on a plane and they're
not going to have their mom and so I think
there's the year, and I know the I've gone to
theearflying dot Com and I know all the statistics and

(11:05):
you could tell me that till you know you're blue
in the face. But I'm still every time we hit
a bump. I'm like, I start to freak out. Are
we okay? Look at the flight attendance. You know, my
body just goes into essentially fight or flight, you know
where I just am like I'm on high alert and
I'm not in I'm not in my right brain, Like
I'm not I'm not rational, I'm like, we're going down.

(11:29):
I really appreciate you opening up about that, and I
think a lot of people listening probably relate to your
your thoughts and feelings. I think the first thing in
this is something I talk about in the book, is
having a traumatic event in your past. It creates an
ongoing vulnerability and kind of fight or flight response. And

(11:49):
so surprisingly, there are treatments for PTSD that don't take
very long and aren't too much work. For example, there's
something called written exposure therapy where you write about the
trauma for five sessions. Each session is thirty minutes and
you write about your deepest thoughts and feelings about the
event and how it affects you today. And remarkably, five

(12:11):
thirty minute writing sessions work as well as much longer treatments,
and these have been This has been used with veterans
and people that have been through very intense, prolonged trauma,
and so I think the first thing is to really
understand that PTSD is going to be make a lot
of day to day things much more stressful, but for
people to realize that there are really promising research back

(12:33):
to ways to treat PTSD that will give you more bandwidth. Interesting,
I've never heard of that one, Like I've done the
e MDR. I mean, and it's interesting when I go
to therapy sometimes it'll go back to that. I'm like, God,
I've worked on that for so many years, you know, like,
how how do I go back to that place? And

(12:54):
I've never heard of that that the writing thing that's
very interesting, Yeah, And kind of the philosophy behind that
is that when a traumatic event happens, we store it
in a way that's splintered, and so we can continue
to re experience it, but by slowing down and staying

(13:14):
with it in the present, we can we can kind
of close it out and create separation from it. And again,
this is a really remarkable treatment. And this is one
of the reasons I wrote this book, because so many
people can't necessarily afford therapy, or so many people might
be doing things that aren't the most researched back to
recent exciting ways to improve things, and so certainly I

(13:38):
think written exposure therapies are really promising avenue. And I
think another key part of flying is radical acceptance. A
lot of times we are fighting, you know, there's something difficult,
and instead of accepting, we are fighting, and so I
would you know, my patients laugh, but they know that
they are not allowed to talk to the stewardess or
not allowed to talk to the pilot. There's no questions

(13:59):
about how does how are things looking today or just typical.
They need to, you know, they need to if they
never pray, they're not supposed to be praying, Like, there
needs to be this attitude of acceptance and willingness and
allowing what is because trying to direct things that are
out of our control is going to be. You're not

(14:21):
a pilot, that's not your I mean it's kind of
playful but true, it's like none of your business. Like
you just got to You're doing this because this matters
to you. You want to be courageous. You're not, you know,
a puppeteer orchestrating, right. I like that nuts. I've never
had it spun that way, But I really, I really
like that. I'm curious to your thoughts on alcohol when

(14:43):
it comes to stress, because you know, at the end
of the day, people sometimes some people like to sit down,
have a glass of wine or crack open something. What
are your views on that, because you know, we've had
like doctor aman on and you know he's talked about
the negative effects of alcohol, Like do you see that
as a negative as well, or is it something where

(15:04):
you're like, you know, in every once in a while
or something. I don't want to speak in all or
nothing terms, but generally speaking, alcohol does affect our sleep quality.
Even two drinks takes a toll on our sleep. And
so my whole thing is, I don't want people to
do the equivalent of taking out a high interest credit

(15:25):
card to cope with stress. If you're going to take
something to take the edge off that then messes up
your sleep, that's really not the best long term solution.
And so I think if you're going out socially and
you want to have a drink, that's one thing once
a week. But I would really, I really hope to
offer people a whole host of other things to do

(15:47):
that are much more empowering. And besides alcohol, like I really,
one of the things that stresses me out a ton
is the thought that so many people, the fact that
so many people are taking medications like anti anxiety medications
like klanic ban or xyannex, that they're really actually painfully ironic.
It's like, when you need to be your sharpest, you're

(16:09):
taking a medication that makes you think less clearly and
slows you down. And they're also incredibly habit for me,
and the detox is really really stressful. And so I
want everyone listening to take a moment to really marinate
on this idea that your body is your best pharmacy.
You don't need alcohol, you don't need anti anxiety medications.
We could talk about pot. I don't want everyone to

(16:29):
hate me, but cannabis is not a cure for anxiety.
There are much better things within you. So what would
you say then for anxiety? Because I used to be

(16:51):
on anxiety medicine for oh my gosh, I'm fifteen now,
all of them I forty. I started when I was
almost twenty me, so I mean, yeah, most I was
almost on it for nineteen years. Recently got off last October.
Congratulations that's a really big deal. Thank you. But having

(17:12):
said that, I've had the worst postpartum anxiety. It's probably
been depressions underneath there for sure, but the most it's
been anxiety. And I've often wondered, you know, should I
go back on because I know all the coping mechanisms
of how not to have an anxiety attack. I know,
you know, all the things that I've learned over the

(17:33):
amount of years, which is why I also I eliminated
one of my biggest stressors which then which was a marriage,
and then after that, you know, I didn't have an anxiety.
I'm like, okay, like this is you know now I
also know how to cope with it. But now it's
I have that anxiety that's coming back. And I do
have Xenx in my purse. I don't take it, but
I like to know that I have it if I
ever have like a moment on a plane or something

(17:54):
where I can. But I mean, I haven't taken a
xanax and probably ten years maybe, but I always have
it in my purse. It's like almost a security blanket
for me to know that I have it in case,
which I think is not a healthy habit. But I
still refill it to know that it's there when the
expiration date goes. But you know what are then because

(18:18):
I do do not believe it, not not to believe.
But when you look at like the serotonin levels and
all the things, they say, Well, if the serotonin levels
are off, like what then can you do to not
be So if I'm having anxiety, then what would you
basically say to me to do to not go back
on anxiety medicine? Well, the reason that you keep the
issiatics in your purse is because you're afraid of what

(18:40):
what are you like? What would be a situation where
you would need to take that I pass out or
like I'm on the verge and uh it's like a
panic attack. Yeah, Like, let's say I'm stuck, which is
another reason why you know I don't. I would never
go on. I used to never drive in the expressway
because I again I would the feeling of being stuck

(19:01):
would get me dizzy to the fact that I have
to pull off on the expressway right, So I just
am like I avoided it. I lived in LA for
however many years, ten years, never one on the four
or five or the one on one. I was like
side streets all the way. So then I worked my
way up, did amdr for it and all the things,
and I stopped. I was able to drive on the expressway,
so I'm able to do it now, but I have

(19:22):
to stay on like the right lane so I know
I can get off, and I'll never do it during
rush hour because then that feeling of like being stuck
again will just get me. I mean it's almost like
a vertigo feeling where I could just get super dizzy
and I feel lightheaded. And so for me in that moment,
I'm like, Okay, I would obviously don't drive in dousantics.
That's not what I'm saying, but at least I know.
I'm like, well, if I have a panic attack, I
can take this and I know I'll be fine. I'm

(19:44):
so excited to talk to you about this, and nothing
makes me happier than to talk about this, and I
really appreciate you being so open. And so for anyone listening,
the cure for panic is practicing panic. Everyone needs to
remember this. The cure for panic is practicing panic. Explain
because I what do you mean? Yeah? Yes, So when
someone comes into my office and tells me that they
have panic. And this is all in the book. And

(20:06):
this is one of the reasons I wrote this book
is because people need to know this. If you have
had a panic attack, you are probably avoiding anything that
would recreate those symptoms. But what happens if you know
that when you're in a stressful situation you are going
to feel short of breath, sweaty, and dizzy. What happens
if we make a list of those specific physical sensations

(20:28):
and we practice them together for a minute each who
gets spin on a chair to feel dizzy? I can
I have coffeeaster straws that have a really small opening.
You pinch your nose. You just breathe in through the
coffee ster or straw. You feel like you can't breathe.
You can wear a winter coat. We could give you
some espresso. You practicing you literally putting out a welcome

(20:48):
that for physical sensations of anxiety puts you in the
driver's seat and panic in the trunk. And after you've
practiced this, you need to practice like each sensation for
about a minute. You could go the extra mile and
like imagine that you're driving on the freeway and feeling
these things. But once you repeatedly practice welcoming panic. Again,
this is very similar to radical acceptance. And this is

(21:10):
radical acceptance when you allow your body to do what
it does and come to realize that what feels terrifying
is in fact temporary, you win and anxiety loses. It's
almost like a Chinese finger trap. The more you fight it,
the more you're held hostage. But the more you lean
in and we're like, bring it on, bring it on.

(21:32):
I've been there, I've done that. This is exactly what
I did at home last night. It's cool. There's enough
space and me to welcome in all of it. And
then so step one is practicing that, and then step two.
Then what you're saying is very familiar to me. And
this is what everyone says. We need to avoid safety behaviors,
which is staying in, you know, avoiding rush hour traffic

(21:54):
or avoiding certain lanes. And it's funny, you know, when
I was pregnant with my oldest child, I had been
living in New York for a very long time, and
I flew out to la for a psychology training that
was insolving, which is like a ninety minute drive from
lax and I was on my way to this super important, exciting,
amazing career opportunity. And I started to feel my hands

(22:17):
get super sweaty on the steering wheel, and then I
was like, oh my gosh, I'm like feel nauseous. This
isn't safe. I haven't driven on a freeway in years.
This is really the worst idea to drive, like, you know,
far my first time. And I was like, thank you mind,
thank you mind, Like there's enough space in me to
welcome in all of my feelings. If I had pulled
over and left, what a missed opportunity to realize that,

(22:39):
like it just comes and goes, it's waves, and that
would have made me more anxious the next time. Then
I would have developed some sort of narrative of I
can't do freeways. But it's like, no, we all feel
these feelings. It's just a matter of am I willing
to have them? And who's in charge here? My inner
wisdom or fleeting sensations? Right? No, I love that. Think

(23:00):
when I'm hearing you say that, I think it's because
I had passed out twice from having a panic attack.
So my fear is if I what if I pass
out while I'm driving? You know, I gets and that's
where it's like my because my body will go from
like zero to one hundred and a second when it
comes to that feeling of trap. And what situation did

(23:22):
you pass out in if Acannos? So it one was
when I was in Mexico. I was completely sober, but
so the I was an abusive relationship. He would wake
me up at three in the morning, be the shot
out of me, throw me at about. So when I
was alone, I mean I would wake up at three
am every every single morning after that incident, I mean

(23:42):
up until I got divorced a few years ago, and
so now I don't wake up at three am anymore.
But so I was alone, I was on tour, I
was playing the country show, and it was that panic
that I'm alone and I don't feel safe, and so
I got up out of bed. I started having anxiety

(24:04):
attack and then I fell and I hit my head
and I still have scar tissue on my forehead from
falling and hitting my head. And then another time was
after my divorce, but that was just I mean, it
was the week I filed, So, I mean I get
the most, probably had zero food in me and everything else.
But yeah, there's certain things people can do to prevent fainting,

(24:28):
which are counterintuitive, like pensing your muscles want people are
like trying to relax, But it's called applied tension. Especially
if people have blood injury injection phobias, if when they
get their blood drawn they feel really faint, tensing your
muscles really helps them. So there's certain things to do,
and obviously I want people to be thoughtful, but I
think it's interesting that this happened twice in very extreme

(24:50):
situations and to create rules around pretty low probability events.
It maintains their weight and makes you more afraid of them.
But there are all sorts of things in the book.
I mean, another one that's kind of interesting is taking
a salable and filling it with ice water. If you
hold your breath for thirty seconds, is you dip your

(25:13):
face in the ice water, that lowers your heart rate
that quickly kind of overhauls your nervous systems called the
die of response. And even just holding ice can help.
And anchoring or grounding, really digging your heels into the floor,
taking a moment to kind of check in with yourself,
what am I thinking doing? Come back to the moment.
And so there are tons and tons of things, and

(25:35):
you're not alone. And I've seen a lot of people
that have fainted, and it's like, let's get in the
car together. We got this and right. If you know
that you can face the physical sensations, it's pretty unlikely
to faint. The thing where I see fainting the most
often is around the blood injury injection for you, because
that can make people faint. But again, this apply tension.
It works, wonders. I love that. What are your what

(25:58):
it's like your favorite tip in the book the book
that you write about. There are so many, but I
know one that I love is that I personal. There's
two that I'll share. I really love slow breathing, breathing
in for five seconds and out for five seconds. And
I just want to clarify, like, it is not fair

(26:18):
to think I'm just going to pick this up when
things are really hard. You need to do this like preemptively.
It's like you can't just decide like I'm going to
run the marathon without having trained. You need to do
this like first thing in the morning. And so I
really love doing this and I think it works, Wonders,
and I think it is much more powerful. It gives
you a calm alertness, which is different than into anxiety
medication that's like dull and not able to be strong

(26:42):
and sharp. And I actually, in doing research for the book,
I interviewed psychiatrists that have moved away from prescribing medication
and are now prescribing breathing. And they actually started a
foundation called Breath, Body, and Mind Foundation where they work
with disaster found disaster survivors teaching them breath work and

(27:04):
even in disaster zones, this specific I don't know, breathing,
which is much slower than the way that we normally breathe,
is incredibly helpful and powerful and kind of sets a
good tone for the day. And you do this through
your nose, so breathing in interesting and out and so
it's one. And then I also love a specific mindfulness

(27:26):
practice called loving Kindness meditation. And this was like my
best friend postpart of something it's just excited to share
with you. And I continue to practice this all the time,
but really practicing saying statements of loving kindness first to
someone that naturally brings up those feelings, then to yourself,
then to maybe a friend that's having a hard time
than a familiar stranger like the you're Amazon driver or

(27:51):
someone see at a local coffee shop and someone a
little bit difficulty, I'd be happy, may I'd be healthy,
I'd be safe, and I live with these and that
really creates kind of the groundwork for being a bit
nicer to yourself. And doing this again, like ahead of
time as a buffer, makes you a little bit more
able to when you're beating yourself up or judging something

(28:13):
that you did that wasn't perfect, it's a little easier
to change the channel and get back into more compassion. Yeah. Absolutely, Well,
everybody gets stressed. Reset how to soothe your body and
mind in minutes. I'm definitely going to do that, and
I'm going to read it on the airplane. And then
you have I just want to say the other book
too that you have that's out, what is yours? CSIA

(28:35):
How to Be Single and Happy? The biggest takeaway for
people listening How to Be Single and Happy? You think
the biggest takeaway from that book is so much to say,
But a lot of people think, when I meet someone,
then my life is going to be amazing. And there's
a lot of research. This is not like random thoughts
by Jenny Tates. This is like research studies looking at

(28:56):
hundreds of thousands of people, on average, marriage increases happiness
by one percent. And so I really want people to
know that they don't need to wait for their life
to start. Your life starts now. And some people worry
that if they're too comfortable or too happy, then they
won't look for love, but actually, like that's a very

(29:17):
evolutionary desire. You will still want a partner if you're
very happy. And so I want people to know that
they can do the things that matter to them and
live a life that feels really rich and meaningful even
if they are not having a lot of luck and love.
And so many dating books make people feel really lousy
and teach people to play games and be bitchy and settle,

(29:39):
and I want people to know that there's a science
to happiness, and there's a science to asserting yourself and communicating,
and you don't need to play games and you don't
need to lose yourself. You need to embrace yourself. And
I really love that. That's awesome. Well, Jenny, thank you

(30:01):
so much for coming on. I really appreciate it. I'm
adding to Kart right now. Thank you. Thank you, Jen.
I really appreciate it talking to you, and I'm so
happy that you know friends, I know. Thank you girl
the same. We'll speak to you soon. I'm going to
slide into your DMS when I'm on my next plane
ride and go all right, girl, And this is Jennet,
you got it on? Are the tips again? I mean,
this is half the book, like do not do this

(30:22):
on the plane. You've got to practice looking ahead of that.
You've got to do some pre exposure therapy, and then
we've got to work on radical acceptance and lower stress
situations to do the hardest ones. Okay, all right, I
trust all right, Thanks Jenny, Bye bye girl bye
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