April 25, 2024 • 27 mins
Jana connects with recording artist and author Stephanie Quayle to hear her story of finding out about her boyfriend’s infidelities… after his death in a plane crash.
Jana and Stephanie connect over the difficult feelings they experienced when they met the “other” women… and how they recovered from the broken trust.
Plus, Stephanie shares some crucial advice on how to know if you’re being gaslighted.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heart Radio Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
This week's Thursday Therapy, We've got Stephanie qail on. She's
a Nashville recording artist, but she has a book out.
It's called Why Do We Stay? How My Toxic Relationship
can help you find freedom?
Speaker 1 (00:18):
We all need that. Let's get her on, Stephanie. Am.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
I cannot believe we're doing this.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
I literally was.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I was so excited when I saw the rundown because
we have not chatted in a very long time. We
first and foremost, this is my niece Avas. She's joining today.
She's seventeen years old today.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Oh wow, so yes, i'd be birthday.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
So and I'm excited because your your book and everything
I think is going to be good for seventeen year
old years as well.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
So much Janet that I had no idea. I really
thought it was for like us who have been in it. Yeah,
and on the other side, And never in my life
have I been so sure that every seventeen year old
needs this.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
One thousand percent. And me it's a book that I
I wish I would have read them too. But okay,
so a few things, so I saw you was it
the CMT carpet.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Was that the dress? Okay? So I even this.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Is even before I knew you were coming on the show,
because I had just found out a couple of days ago,
and because I only looked like a few days before
I thought that was coming on. But I remember you
were on the carpet and I was like a love
loved it, genius loved that you know your dress or
was it? Because I mean it was the dress, it
was the handbag.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Yes, we had the do you know Rachel deeb remind me?
Speaker 4 (01:33):
But she does a lot of like BTSs for different artists,
and she's a she paints, she did carry Underwood's jacket
that she won tour like. She's just super talented, but
never kind of front of camera. And so when I
asked her, I was like, is there any chance you
would paint the cover of this book onto a dress?
Because how do you talk about a book with thirty
second snippets? Right?
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Sure?
Speaker 3 (01:53):
So I'm like, oh, this will work, and she was willing.
So it just worked.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
And then I took the book cover like the outside
and just put it over the top of cardboard and
then put like a little bag on the inside.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Sewed it to it and just crossed my fingers.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah. No, I mean it looks great because honestly, of
all the dress, of all the dresses that night, it's
so it was so genius because I'm like, I only
remember yours.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
So and then so there's that. But then as I'm
reading the breakdown of you know, the book and everything,
I'm like, is this about your the husband that I met?
Speaker 3 (02:28):
No?
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Okay, because then I was.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Like, oh no, yeah, no, he is he's solid, he's wonderful.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
We're together now ten years, almost married, nine these this
is my prequel.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
So it was the man before this that that did you,
the two before that did your wrong board.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
Yeah, one died in a plane crash, and then the
other one I was able to leave.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Oh wow yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
How is that talking about someone that went that Oh yeah,
but that also so die in such a tragic way
but also was not good to you.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
It's uh, well, I've come full circle now, right. I
found empathy and compassion because at the end of the day,
whatever happened in his life is how he became the
man he became right.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Right.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
He was also the father of this precious little girl.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
That has been a part of my life since she
was six or seven, and now she is twenty eight
years old, and I just went to her wedding, you know,
which was just really just beautiful and precious. And so
I'm in a healed, forgiven place, and I'm able to forgive,
you know, And that's and forgive myself, mainly because that's
really the person I've wrestled with the hardest.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
So I guess the question then, is why do we stay?
What was your reason? Because I know my reasons for
staying in our relationships. I'm sure Ava has her reasons
why she stays in bad relationships, but and I love it,
Like what what do you think is like your why?
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Why do why do we stay?
Speaker 2 (03:58):
I mean again, I think for me, if I could
call it out, it's like, I love the security and
of having a relationship, whether it was good, bad, or
you know it for some reason, it was just it
was better than being alone.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
I didn't like to be alone.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
Yeah, well, I absolutely relate with that. I think for me,
I thought that the potential outweighed the risk of what
was in front of me. I am really good at potentializing,
and I just saw what could be versus what was
(04:32):
So I looked at it like, well, if I keep
getting better, maybe i'll be enough and that will create
the change to make this person not treat me the
way they're treating me.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
But I also think it's a mind twist. So I
hear you on that, But I also think it's the
guy because you know, for my ex he'd always be like,
I'll never do it again, It'll never happen again. So
it's off of their you say, because of their broken promises.
He hooked line and sinkred, you know what I mean? Like,
how many times has a guy been like, oh, I
won't do that again and You're like, Okay, well I
(05:06):
guess I'm going to try to believe him, you know right?
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Ava, is this resonating with you?
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (05:16):
So, in the instance of his name's Paula, the guy
that died in the plane crash, I didn't know he
was cheating. So he died on a Wednesday, and five
days later at the memorial service that we had at
the airport, is when I learned of these other women.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
And then I got it confirmed that night.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
So I had five days of quasi grief and then
it was straight to everything's a lie.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
How did I miss this so much?
Speaker 4 (05:45):
Shame, guilt, all the things, and this realization that my
whole relationship with him, it was all it was, everything
was a lie.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
And so then it was the like how to wrap
my brain around that?
Speaker 1 (06:02):
You know?
Speaker 4 (06:03):
And he every time I would question him, it was
met with you're so insecure, you're so crazy.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
And he would only call me by my last name.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Oh that's interesting.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
Yeah, I've wondered if that was a way to make
sure that he didn't accidentally call me one of the
other women's names.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
I think, oh, well, there you have it. There's that's
interesting theory. I get really I don't want to say triggered,
but I get really frustrated when I hear a guy say, oh,
she was crazy, because I'm like, that's the first thing
a guy goes to is she's crazy, And it's like, well,
what did you do to make her feel crazy? And
I'm not saying, like all guys do things, Like I
(06:44):
understand I have been quote unquote crazy when a guy
hasn't given me a read his reason too, because I
had my own stuff that I hadn't worked on or done.
Totally fine, I accept that, but most times I think
that were labeled crazy, but they forget to say, oh, yeah,
it's because I lied about that one time, or because
(07:06):
I you know, was accidentally talking to an ext girl,
or you know what I mean. It's things that like
they maybe didn't tell us, so of course we're then
going to go, all right, this is now alarming to us,
and we might act a little quote unquote crazy.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Oh yeah, it's the most dismissive word I think that
anyone can use about someone else.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
I've actually stopped male members of my family when they
describe others that way, and I'm like, wait, time out.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
I just want to share with you the power of
this word.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
And is this person in the mental institution when you're
referring to them as crazy or is there I mean
I can go like full itt.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Well no, because we've all gone through things too, and
I think that's like, I mean, I know that I'm
labeled as in someone's past like oh she's crazy, and
like yeah, I A probably was right, and like where's
the empathy for people that do go through things and
work through things, and like we're able to have a
crazy moment and also be able to to you know,
(08:06):
detour rite and go all right, now I've worked on
my stuf or continuing to like heal and work and
grow like and not just continue to be like labeled
the crazy girl.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
So I think too, you know, being able to say
you're acting like something versus you are something, right, because
that's it was never you're acting crazy, it was you
are crazy. And both of those relationships so you know,
the one that passed away tragically, and then the following
(08:36):
one was so fascinatingly good with lying that it made
me feel crazy because I was going but wait, I
was in the same room when you lied, and now
questioning myself like what is happening? And it will make
you start to believe it.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
It's so true. I mean I had to post a
war I had a relationship like that. But I'm like,
but wait, I'm like I had to write things out
to go am I freaking nuts? Or or did X,
Y and Z actually happen? And I'm like, yes it did.
But they the way that the certain men are able
to twist it to make you feel insane, I'm like,
(09:17):
holy crap, and you can't see it then you know,
like you can. I it took me two years to
go oh wait a minute, Like, no, he was twisting
it all because I'm like, here's black and white, one's right,
one's wrong, you know what I mean. Like, and he
was totally twisting it all. And it's so like when
you when you're able to like unveil all of that
(09:37):
and go wow, but then look back and go. I
was also so like, but I'm sorry and I didn't
mean to, but take me back. And that piece that
is like just makes me sad too. For the unhealed
girl going, man, you didn't you you did see it,
but they made you feel like you were nuts completely.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
I mean I had to take a lot of showers
as I was writing the book, you know.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
And because as you know, you like you get to
your core. Writing is totally different.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
We can do these little micro moments of emotion, but
with the book, it was like.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
I gotta go, I gotta go take a shower.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
So the last guy, what were the things that he
did that were the biggest red flags for you?
Speaker 1 (10:32):
And then why you stayed?
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Yeah, So the first thing was I didn't do the
work in between. And I really want to specify that
I didn't go to grief counseling.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
I didn't do the therapy.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
I just you know, went into I will get over it,
I will move on, I will fix me.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
So I'm still so vulnerable. And the first thing he
said to me.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Was I'm gonna when he was, you know, showing interest
in all those things, it was, I'm going to show
you that you can.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Trust men again.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Yep, God see doesn't just irritated you didn't even hear.
And yet in the moment, I was like, wow, like
is he is? He? Is he going to?
Speaker 4 (11:16):
You know?
Speaker 1 (11:18):
So true?
Speaker 2 (11:19):
I had that one guy the same, the same dude
that was very gas light. He was like, I don't
want you to ever rear makeup around me, because I
want you to know like how beautiful you are without
all this stuff. He's like, take it all off, like
take off the rings and the bracelets and the like
the makeup. And he's like, and just stay like that
because because you He's like, that's how you're beautiful.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
And I'm like.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
What, Also, where do they go to school for this?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
But it made me feel so beautiful in that moment,
And then I was like, wait a minute, it was
just a line.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
It's just so interesting.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
I don't know where they go mm hmm to like
get this intel on how to manipulate, and it's pro level.
And I think the one thing, you know, as I'm
thinking about you, Ava seventeen, and I have a niece
named Ava too, So that just makes me just love
(12:12):
you even more is you know, we're just not taught,
we're not taught to what to look out for. And
so I just I'm so proud that you have this
space to have these conversations. And also that Ava, you're
going to be set because you're going to have You're
(12:33):
gonna be armed to where they others can't use this
against you, you know, And that's the potency of just
the conversation.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
I didn't have any access. I didn't know even where
to look. I didn't even know what gas lighting was,
like none of that.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
I still feel like though even though they this generation
has all the stuff, yeah, girls still fall in the
same category. Like I feel like we still have to
have the same conversations that we'd have no matter what,
Like Ava, you don't deserve that, you deserve better, Like
if a guy isn't showing up for you and isn't
doing what he says, like you shouldn't like stop, like,
stop stop liking that kind of person, like he's he's
(13:12):
not the right dude.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
You know.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
But but you know, at seventeen, it's like we think,
and then or thirty and then forty, it's like this
is the same kind of thing. It's like, I don't think.
I think girls just we fall into that that the
role in the game of it all. I don't know,
I mean, does that does that make sense? Because it's
like I could tell you till I'm blue in the face,
like that one guy, I'm like, Ava, stop like he's
not a good dude. He's not That's not how a
(13:35):
guy should treat a girl, especially when you were sixteen.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
You know.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
No, but this is default. This is what we do.
This is what we all do. It starts so young.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
I have found through this process and Jane, I don't know.
I mean, you got your babies, You're precious. I mean,
like you're surrounded with so much love. And I find
that now that I'm really owning and loving myself for
all my stuff, I can be alone.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Yes, I can be alone in a way I could
never be alone before.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
And so relate to what you're saying, because it is
it just like I don't want to be alone, and
I think that's what we have to encourage others.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
You've got to be good with being just alone and
then people won't take advantage of us.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
I had to be forced alone to be okay with
being alone, you know, like when I went through my
divorce and like I had no other choice, and then
when the dating world was just realizing that I had
to be alone, I literally was like that moment where
I was like, I have no other choice, but I
but I need to be alone so I can figure
this out. And then now it's like, you know, you're
(14:42):
in a happy relationship now, and you see the difference
between what you had versus now you know what you're experiencing,
and that the difference is is because we were able
to have that moment alone and work on our stuff
and be in that healthy space. Because now I'm like, oh,
I wish I could go back to her age now
(15:03):
and just be alone forever until I'm like thirty five,
and just like, and I'm the pickiest human because you're
gonna find you're gonna meet your person, right, But I
wish I was so much pickier along the way and didn't.
But I mean you got to go through the heartbreak.
I get that, and you learn and that's how you
continue to grow and be a better person.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
I get all that.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
But still it's you know, it's why we write, It's
why you write the books, right, So I mean, what
are some of the tips that you given the book,
like for because I'm sure you wrote it with Campbell, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
Expert in narcissism, he was writing about narcissism fifteen years ago.
I like the very beginning, well not the beginning of
the conversation, it's been around forever, but really giving it
the real world terminology. Sure, I think for me now,
some of the flags are you know, if it doesn't
sound right and it doesn't feel right, and if your
(15:56):
gut senses something in your.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Head cocks sideways, you know, so many times that'll happen.
I don't. I don't question myself, right, That's I used to.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
I used to override my intuition and my gut and
every time it was unfortunately confirmed that I wasn't misleading myself.
But I would override that. So I think that's super important, right.
And also when people show us who they are, we
need to believe them.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
M hm.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
There I mean, we're humans are very revealing off the bat.
They can say all the things that we want to hear,
but their actions, right yeah, are so powerful.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
That's what I tell people now when they ask me, like,
what's the difference, and how do you trust Alan, I'm like,
I've I've never I mean not even a second, have
I not trusted that human because he is constantly doing
what he says and says what he does, like, I mean,
there is not I mean, he would be the greatest
mastermind ever if some thing ever happened, because and I
(17:01):
would just be like I you know, because he is uncle.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
At that point, You're just like, I guess at.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
That point, I'm like, I'll go lesbian, you know what
I mean. I mean I wouldn't, but I would. I
would be a okay being alone, but I would just
be like, well done, you know, because that's just I mean,
how he's so respectful, he's so like how he loves
and supports and I'm like, unlike anything I've ever experienced before.
So that's why I'm like, I trust him because he
(17:27):
has not given me a reason to not trust him.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Same I so relate to that.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
David is there's no drama, yes, just like solid, even keeled,
and I'm just like this.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
This is how it's this is what healthy feels like.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
But I think when I was so, I'm so familiar
with unhealthy that it feels awkward at first.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Why do you think you allowed that into your life?
Like where do you think in your past that you went, Okay,
this is this is how it's supposed to feel.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
M gosh.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
You know, when I think about my boyfriends before Paulo,
they were just boys, right, They just weren't equipped to
be in relationships.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
But they weren't bad guys. They just weren't you know, they.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
Were unemployed and you know, lived on my couch, and
you know, they were just boys. I think with him,
I think I was so captivated and just taken by him,
and he was taken by I mean, he was all in.
I mean when you talk about the word love bombing,
I didn't know what that was. I was just like, oh,
(18:35):
all of this is how it's supposed to be. You know,
I come from you know, divorces and blended family. So
it's not that I had seen like a perfect relationship,
but I did often live and fast forward from what
was going on in my life, I would look to
the future, and I think that's where I miss so
(18:56):
many things with Paulo and then who I refer to
as the Prince as the follow up to the toxic
toxic patterns, I don't know. I'm still I'm still trying
to figure out, like how did I.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Like, was your debt or was it like is it
was it family dynamic? Was it childhood or was it
just good.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Blended divorces all the same stuff that everyone spend through.
I just think that I was really good at potentializing
or the word romanticizing, right.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
I always wanted a family, and with him, I got
the family.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
I got him and his amazing daughter who's still you know,
very much before my life, and she's incredible. And you know,
he he wove a good game. He wielded words really well.
And then the second one was just you know, I
mean repeater syndrome for sure.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
How did you get out then?
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Because I think that's another one that I get asked
a lot, like how did you got I know, my out,
but like, what did you do with that? Was your
kind of like aha moment?
Speaker 4 (20:14):
Well, I went to the edge unfortunately in that relationship
from the standpoint of when I learned that he was
or he had been accused of cheating on me. I
didn't go to him saying you did this. I went
to him saying, you've been accused of this. I can't
believe I'm here again. I'm tapping out.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
See that is such strength.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
Well, the problem was my way of tapping out was
drinking a handle of vodka, and so that took me
to my lowest point, Jana, where I was considering, like,
how do I get rid of this pain? Because I
can't I can't hurt like this anymore. And because I
hadn't done the work, it all had compounded. So then
that led me into what I call emotional rehab, where
(20:58):
I went to work with psycho and just get to
the bottom of me. Because I was the common denominator, right,
I kept picking and choosing, and I was complicit in
those relationships because the first one I didn't leave. The
second one I did leave. But it took me a
long time. You know, for me, it felt like much
too long. So after I got back from this, you know,
(21:22):
emotional rehab of like really understanding identifying how toxic he was,
I found the girl. I found the girl and you
know Nashville, so this will crack you up. So evidently
they had met at redgre and had their interlude, and
then I found out who she was, and I said, listen,
(21:43):
I don't I don't mean you any harm, but if
you will sit down with me and just tell me
what he said to you, I'll be able to know
for sure because I'm just vulnerable and I'm fragile, and
I'm not able to leave him. But if you will
sit down with me, you will give me like the key.
(22:05):
And she she finally said yes.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Did she was it a good I mean, I respect
the women that I'm saying, Like I talked to some
of the affair girls, and I respected I was very
upset with one of them, obviously, like the longtime one,
like I had a tough conversation, but I respected some
of the girls that all of them actually that had
the the balls to have a conversation with me.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
It's yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
And I just leaned into that because she didn't know
that he was in a relationship according to her you know, experience,
and when she was able, you know, when you know
someone in the way that they speak to you, sure,
and then someone else says, how the way that he
spoke to her, that's what did it for me. And
I was like, Okay, this is this is real and
(22:53):
this is true. And then leaving took, you know, a
little bit of strategy because we were living together, so
it was I waited until he was out of town
and I packed up all my.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Stuff and just made the break.
Speaker 4 (23:05):
Because he was so good, he was so good at
manipulating a line, and he had such good reason for everything.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
It took a lot.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
What would be the thing that you want people to know?
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Hmm, you are your greatest advocate and trust yourself because
you are rarely going to be wrong.
Speaker 4 (23:27):
And that's the gift that God gives each and every
one of us. Is this intuition, And the more we
lean into it and trust it, the more it shows
up for us. And just I don't know if you
feel this way, but I feel like it just gets
stronger and stronger to where you just don't even waste
your time with people.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
You can just sense it.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
You're like, no, this is not healthy, not healthy for me,
and I'm going to walk away. And I think that
we owe it to ourselves to treat ourselves like we
treat our friends, you know, like we're so good to
other people, you know. I mean you think about your baby,
you wouldn't do anything for them?
Speaker 3 (24:05):
And would we do anything for ourselves? You know?
Speaker 4 (24:08):
And that was a big revelation for me, is like
how much I give to others, but I wouldn't give
myself the same treatment? Like start with yourself, you know,
like Ava, when you wake up tomorrow morning, how do
you feel with no one around, not looking at your phone?
Like how does Ava feel about Ava?
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Today?
Speaker 4 (24:29):
And start from there, because I think we get such
an influx of not only social media information, but friends
and family and expectation and all these things like just
how do you feel about you? And like that's been
really a fun discovery, like how does Stephanie feel about
Stephanie today?
Speaker 3 (24:46):
Like how are we doing? Let's move from that.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
Place, and I think it's just a really healthy, a
healthier mindset, right, And we have access to really great therapists,
really great grief counselors, much more affordably than I think
ever before.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
Seek out the information because it's there.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
I mean, my hope, I don't know Jane if you
feel this way, but my hope is like people will
get time back, like I'll never get those what I
call the lost years back, I'll never get get them back.
And I feel like I'm probably trying to make up
for a lot of that, you know, I just stretching
my days as much as I can and not wasting
(25:26):
any time.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Well, and you're, you're, you're doing it all too. I mean,
you're you have your music career, you know, You're You've
got the book out, So it's like you're you're juggling
a lot of things while also doing some hard work.
Always because I think people that, you know, we're constantly evolving,
constantly doing the work, constantly having to pivot, Like, you know,
I learned something new this morning that I could have
(25:48):
done better, you know, so it's like, all right, I
still got to kind of work on that a little bit,
you know. So it's were always we always have to keep,
you know, recognizing where we need to get better at.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Yeah, I think that.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
We're never going to stop learning. And I think it's
what this book has revealed is I have so much
more to learn about myself and so much more to
kind of dive into of Just like I love making adjustments,
I just want to be better, right, that's that's you know.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
I was talking to my stepmom.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
Who she's just just an incredible woman, and she's like, success,
true success is when you wake up and can go
to bed liking the person that you are and be
like this person did a good job today, or you
know what, I need to make an adjustment.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
I'm gonna be better tomorrow.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
And I think that you know, in this business, we
have such wild goals for success and what our.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Levels of success are.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
But man, that's a super simple version, like do you
like yourself today?
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Right? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Well, Steph, I love you and I've always just been
a fan of you, So I'm so excited for everything
that you're doing. Everyone please please go get her book?
Why do we stay? And I'm just I'm so excited
for you, and I hope I'm so much success for
the book.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
Well, right back at you, I just want to commend
you because you're a kicking tail every which way. I
didn't get to have littles, and I just commend you
for how you when you talk about juggling, you navigate
it and you share it and you show.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
People it's all possible and that's just awesome. And ab it,
you got a good auto. You right there.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
I'm trying.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
I still think she's like five. I'm like, how are
you seventeen? I still tell people you're like, sex, isn't it? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (27:34):
I know, it's crazy.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
I appreciate you so much.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Thank you for having appreciate you stuff. Thank you
Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heart Radio Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
This week's Thursday Therapy, We've got Stephanie qail on. She's
a Nashville recording artist, but she has a book out.
It's called Why Do We Stay? How My Toxic Relationship
can help you find freedom?
Speaker 1 (00:18):
We all need that. Let's get her on, Stephanie. Am.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
I cannot believe we're doing this.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
I literally was.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I was so excited when I saw the rundown because
we have not chatted in a very long time. We
first and foremost, this is my niece Avas. She's joining today.
She's seventeen years old today.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Oh wow, so yes, i'd be birthday.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
So and I'm excited because your your book and everything
I think is going to be good for seventeen year
old years as well.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
So much Janet that I had no idea. I really
thought it was for like us who have been in it. Yeah,
and on the other side, And never in my life
have I been so sure that every seventeen year old
needs this.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
One thousand percent. And me it's a book that I
I wish I would have read them too. But okay,
so a few things, so I saw you was it
the CMT carpet.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Was that the dress? Okay? So I even this.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Is even before I knew you were coming on the show,
because I had just found out a couple of days ago,
and because I only looked like a few days before
I thought that was coming on. But I remember you
were on the carpet and I was like a love
loved it, genius loved that you know your dress or
was it? Because I mean it was the dress, it
was the handbag.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Yes, we had the do you know Rachel deeb remind me?
Speaker 4 (01:33):
But she does a lot of like BTSs for different artists,
and she's a she paints, she did carry Underwood's jacket
that she won tour like. She's just super talented, but
never kind of front of camera. And so when I
asked her, I was like, is there any chance you
would paint the cover of this book onto a dress?
Because how do you talk about a book with thirty
second snippets? Right?
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Sure?
Speaker 3 (01:53):
So I'm like, oh, this will work, and she was willing.
So it just worked.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
And then I took the book cover like the outside
and just put it over the top of cardboard and
then put like a little bag on the inside.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Sewed it to it and just crossed my fingers.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah. No, I mean it looks great because honestly, of
all the dress, of all the dresses that night, it's
so it was so genius because I'm like, I only
remember yours.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
So and then so there's that. But then as I'm
reading the breakdown of you know, the book and everything,
I'm like, is this about your the husband that I met?
Speaker 3 (02:28):
No?
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Okay, because then I was.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Like, oh no, yeah, no, he is he's solid, he's wonderful.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
We're together now ten years, almost married, nine these this
is my prequel.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
So it was the man before this that that did you,
the two before that did your wrong board.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
Yeah, one died in a plane crash, and then the
other one I was able to leave.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Oh wow yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
How is that talking about someone that went that Oh yeah,
but that also so die in such a tragic way
but also was not good to you.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
It's uh, well, I've come full circle now, right. I
found empathy and compassion because at the end of the day,
whatever happened in his life is how he became the
man he became right.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Right.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
He was also the father of this precious little girl.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
That has been a part of my life since she
was six or seven, and now she is twenty eight
years old, and I just went to her wedding, you know,
which was just really just beautiful and precious. And so
I'm in a healed, forgiven place, and I'm able to forgive,
you know, And that's and forgive myself, mainly because that's
really the person I've wrestled with the hardest.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
So I guess the question then, is why do we stay?
What was your reason? Because I know my reasons for
staying in our relationships. I'm sure Ava has her reasons
why she stays in bad relationships, but and I love it,
Like what what do you think is like your why?
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Why do why do we stay?
Speaker 2 (03:58):
I mean again, I think for me, if I could
call it out, it's like, I love the security and
of having a relationship, whether it was good, bad, or
you know it for some reason, it was just it
was better than being alone.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
I didn't like to be alone.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
Yeah, well, I absolutely relate with that. I think for me,
I thought that the potential outweighed the risk of what
was in front of me. I am really good at potentializing,
and I just saw what could be versus what was
(04:32):
So I looked at it like, well, if I keep
getting better, maybe i'll be enough and that will create
the change to make this person not treat me the
way they're treating me.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
But I also think it's a mind twist. So I
hear you on that, But I also think it's the
guy because you know, for my ex he'd always be like,
I'll never do it again, It'll never happen again. So
it's off of their you say, because of their broken promises.
He hooked line and sinkred, you know what I mean? Like,
how many times has a guy been like, oh, I
won't do that again and You're like, Okay, well I
(05:06):
guess I'm going to try to believe him, you know right?
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Ava, is this resonating with you?
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (05:16):
So, in the instance of his name's Paula, the guy
that died in the plane crash, I didn't know he
was cheating. So he died on a Wednesday, and five
days later at the memorial service that we had at
the airport, is when I learned of these other women.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
And then I got it confirmed that night.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
So I had five days of quasi grief and then
it was straight to everything's a lie.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
How did I miss this so much?
Speaker 4 (05:45):
Shame, guilt, all the things, and this realization that my
whole relationship with him, it was all it was, everything
was a lie.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
And so then it was the like how to wrap
my brain around that?
Speaker 1 (06:02):
You know?
Speaker 4 (06:03):
And he every time I would question him, it was
met with you're so insecure, you're so crazy.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
And he would only call me by my last name.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Oh that's interesting.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
Yeah, I've wondered if that was a way to make
sure that he didn't accidentally call me one of the
other women's names.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
I think, oh, well, there you have it. There's that's
interesting theory. I get really I don't want to say triggered,
but I get really frustrated when I hear a guy say, oh,
she was crazy, because I'm like, that's the first thing
a guy goes to is she's crazy, And it's like, well,
what did you do to make her feel crazy? And
I'm not saying, like all guys do things, Like I
(06:44):
understand I have been quote unquote crazy when a guy
hasn't given me a read his reason too, because I
had my own stuff that I hadn't worked on or done.
Totally fine, I accept that, but most times I think
that were labeled crazy, but they forget to say, oh, yeah,
it's because I lied about that one time, or because
(07:06):
I you know, was accidentally talking to an ext girl,
or you know what I mean. It's things that like
they maybe didn't tell us, so of course we're then
going to go, all right, this is now alarming to us,
and we might act a little quote unquote crazy.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Oh yeah, it's the most dismissive word I think that
anyone can use about someone else.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
I've actually stopped male members of my family when they
describe others that way, and I'm like, wait, time out.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
I just want to share with you the power of
this word.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
And is this person in the mental institution when you're
referring to them as crazy or is there I mean
I can go like full itt.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Well no, because we've all gone through things too, and
I think that's like, I mean, I know that I'm
labeled as in someone's past like oh she's crazy, and
like yeah, I A probably was right, and like where's
the empathy for people that do go through things and
work through things, and like we're able to have a
crazy moment and also be able to to you know,
(08:06):
detour rite and go all right, now I've worked on
my stuf or continuing to like heal and work and
grow like and not just continue to be like labeled
the crazy girl.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
So I think too, you know, being able to say
you're acting like something versus you are something, right, because
that's it was never you're acting crazy, it was you
are crazy. And both of those relationships so you know,
the one that passed away tragically, and then the following
(08:36):
one was so fascinatingly good with lying that it made
me feel crazy because I was going but wait, I
was in the same room when you lied, and now
questioning myself like what is happening? And it will make
you start to believe it.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
It's so true. I mean I had to post a
war I had a relationship like that. But I'm like,
but wait, I'm like I had to write things out
to go am I freaking nuts? Or or did X,
Y and Z actually happen? And I'm like, yes it did.
But they the way that the certain men are able
to twist it to make you feel insane, I'm like,
(09:17):
holy crap, and you can't see it then you know,
like you can. I it took me two years to
go oh wait a minute, Like, no, he was twisting
it all because I'm like, here's black and white, one's right,
one's wrong, you know what I mean. Like, and he
was totally twisting it all. And it's so like when
you when you're able to like unveil all of that
(09:37):
and go wow, but then look back and go. I
was also so like, but I'm sorry and I didn't
mean to, but take me back. And that piece that
is like just makes me sad too. For the unhealed
girl going, man, you didn't you you did see it,
but they made you feel like you were nuts completely.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
I mean I had to take a lot of showers
as I was writing the book, you know.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
And because as you know, you like you get to
your core. Writing is totally different.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
We can do these little micro moments of emotion, but
with the book, it was like.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
I gotta go, I gotta go take a shower.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
So the last guy, what were the things that he
did that were the biggest red flags for you?
Speaker 1 (10:32):
And then why you stayed?
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Yeah, So the first thing was I didn't do the
work in between. And I really want to specify that
I didn't go to grief counseling.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
I didn't do the therapy.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
I just you know, went into I will get over it,
I will move on, I will fix me.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
So I'm still so vulnerable. And the first thing he
said to me.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Was I'm gonna when he was, you know, showing interest
in all those things, it was, I'm going to show
you that you can.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Trust men again.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Yep, God see doesn't just irritated you didn't even hear.
And yet in the moment, I was like, wow, like
is he is? He? Is he going to?
Speaker 4 (11:16):
You know?
Speaker 1 (11:18):
So true?
Speaker 2 (11:19):
I had that one guy the same, the same dude
that was very gas light. He was like, I don't
want you to ever rear makeup around me, because I
want you to know like how beautiful you are without
all this stuff. He's like, take it all off, like
take off the rings and the bracelets and the like
the makeup. And he's like, and just stay like that
because because you He's like, that's how you're beautiful.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
And I'm like.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
What, Also, where do they go to school for this?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
But it made me feel so beautiful in that moment,
And then I was like, wait a minute, it was
just a line.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
It's just so interesting.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
I don't know where they go mm hmm to like
get this intel on how to manipulate, and it's pro level.
And I think the one thing, you know, as I'm
thinking about you, Ava seventeen, and I have a niece
named Ava too, So that just makes me just love
(12:12):
you even more is you know, we're just not taught,
we're not taught to what to look out for. And
so I just I'm so proud that you have this
space to have these conversations. And also that Ava, you're
going to be set because you're going to have You're
(12:33):
gonna be armed to where they others can't use this
against you, you know, And that's the potency of just
the conversation.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
I didn't have any access. I didn't know even where
to look. I didn't even know what gas lighting was,
like none of that.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
I still feel like though even though they this generation
has all the stuff, yeah, girls still fall in the
same category. Like I feel like we still have to
have the same conversations that we'd have no matter what,
Like Ava, you don't deserve that, you deserve better, Like
if a guy isn't showing up for you and isn't
doing what he says, like you shouldn't like stop, like,
stop stop liking that kind of person, like he's he's
(13:12):
not the right dude.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
You know.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
But but you know, at seventeen, it's like we think,
and then or thirty and then forty, it's like this
is the same kind of thing. It's like, I don't think.
I think girls just we fall into that that the
role in the game of it all. I don't know,
I mean, does that does that make sense? Because it's
like I could tell you till I'm blue in the face,
like that one guy, I'm like, Ava, stop like he's
not a good dude. He's not That's not how a
(13:35):
guy should treat a girl, especially when you were sixteen.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
You know.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
No, but this is default. This is what we do.
This is what we all do. It starts so young.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
I have found through this process and Jane, I don't know.
I mean, you got your babies, You're precious. I mean,
like you're surrounded with so much love. And I find
that now that I'm really owning and loving myself for
all my stuff, I can be alone.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Yes, I can be alone in a way I could
never be alone before.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
And so relate to what you're saying, because it is
it just like I don't want to be alone, and
I think that's what we have to encourage others.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
You've got to be good with being just alone and
then people won't take advantage of us.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
I had to be forced alone to be okay with
being alone, you know, like when I went through my
divorce and like I had no other choice, and then
when the dating world was just realizing that I had
to be alone, I literally was like that moment where
I was like, I have no other choice, but I
but I need to be alone so I can figure
this out. And then now it's like, you know, you're
(14:42):
in a happy relationship now, and you see the difference
between what you had versus now you know what you're experiencing,
and that the difference is is because we were able
to have that moment alone and work on our stuff
and be in that healthy space. Because now I'm like, oh,
I wish I could go back to her age now
(15:03):
and just be alone forever until I'm like thirty five,
and just like, and I'm the pickiest human because you're
gonna find you're gonna meet your person, right, But I
wish I was so much pickier along the way and didn't.
But I mean you got to go through the heartbreak.
I get that, and you learn and that's how you
continue to grow and be a better person.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
I get all that.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
But still it's you know, it's why we write, It's
why you write the books, right, So I mean, what
are some of the tips that you given the book,
like for because I'm sure you wrote it with Campbell, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
Expert in narcissism, he was writing about narcissism fifteen years ago.
I like the very beginning, well not the beginning of
the conversation, it's been around forever, but really giving it
the real world terminology. Sure, I think for me now,
some of the flags are you know, if it doesn't
sound right and it doesn't feel right, and if your
(15:56):
gut senses something in your.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Head cocks sideways, you know, so many times that'll happen.
I don't. I don't question myself, right, That's I used to.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
I used to override my intuition and my gut and
every time it was unfortunately confirmed that I wasn't misleading myself.
But I would override that. So I think that's super important, right.
And also when people show us who they are, we
need to believe them.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
M hm.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
There I mean, we're humans are very revealing off the bat.
They can say all the things that we want to hear,
but their actions, right yeah, are so powerful.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
That's what I tell people now when they ask me, like,
what's the difference, and how do you trust Alan, I'm like,
I've I've never I mean not even a second, have
I not trusted that human because he is constantly doing
what he says and says what he does, like, I mean,
there is not I mean, he would be the greatest
mastermind ever if some thing ever happened, because and I
(17:01):
would just be like I you know, because he is uncle.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
At that point, You're just like, I guess at.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
That point, I'm like, I'll go lesbian, you know what
I mean. I mean I wouldn't, but I would. I
would be a okay being alone, but I would just
be like, well done, you know, because that's just I mean,
how he's so respectful, he's so like how he loves
and supports and I'm like, unlike anything I've ever experienced before.
So that's why I'm like, I trust him because he
(17:27):
has not given me a reason to not trust him.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Same I so relate to that.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
David is there's no drama, yes, just like solid, even keeled,
and I'm just like this.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
This is how it's this is what healthy feels like.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
But I think when I was so, I'm so familiar
with unhealthy that it feels awkward at first.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Why do you think you allowed that into your life?
Like where do you think in your past that you went, Okay,
this is this is how it's supposed to feel.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
M gosh.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
You know, when I think about my boyfriends before Paulo,
they were just boys, right, They just weren't equipped to
be in relationships.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
But they weren't bad guys. They just weren't you know, they.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
Were unemployed and you know, lived on my couch, and
you know, they were just boys. I think with him,
I think I was so captivated and just taken by him,
and he was taken by I mean, he was all in.
I mean when you talk about the word love bombing,
I didn't know what that was. I was just like, oh,
(18:35):
all of this is how it's supposed to be. You know,
I come from you know, divorces and blended family. So
it's not that I had seen like a perfect relationship,
but I did often live and fast forward from what
was going on in my life, I would look to
the future, and I think that's where I miss so
(18:56):
many things with Paulo and then who I refer to
as the Prince as the follow up to the toxic
toxic patterns, I don't know. I'm still I'm still trying
to figure out, like how did I.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Like, was your debt or was it like is it
was it family dynamic? Was it childhood or was it
just good.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Blended divorces all the same stuff that everyone spend through.
I just think that I was really good at potentializing
or the word romanticizing, right.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
I always wanted a family, and with him, I got
the family.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
I got him and his amazing daughter who's still you know,
very much before my life, and she's incredible. And you know,
he he wove a good game. He wielded words really well.
And then the second one was just you know, I
mean repeater syndrome for sure.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
How did you get out then?
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Because I think that's another one that I get asked
a lot, like how did you got I know, my out,
but like, what did you do with that? Was your
kind of like aha moment?
Speaker 4 (20:14):
Well, I went to the edge unfortunately in that relationship
from the standpoint of when I learned that he was
or he had been accused of cheating on me. I
didn't go to him saying you did this. I went
to him saying, you've been accused of this. I can't
believe I'm here again. I'm tapping out.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
See that is such strength.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
Well, the problem was my way of tapping out was
drinking a handle of vodka, and so that took me
to my lowest point, Jana, where I was considering, like,
how do I get rid of this pain? Because I
can't I can't hurt like this anymore. And because I
hadn't done the work, it all had compounded. So then
that led me into what I call emotional rehab, where
(20:58):
I went to work with psycho and just get to
the bottom of me. Because I was the common denominator, right,
I kept picking and choosing, and I was complicit in
those relationships because the first one I didn't leave. The
second one I did leave. But it took me a
long time. You know, for me, it felt like much
too long. So after I got back from this, you know,
(21:22):
emotional rehab of like really understanding identifying how toxic he was,
I found the girl. I found the girl and you
know Nashville, so this will crack you up. So evidently
they had met at redgre and had their interlude, and
then I found out who she was, and I said, listen,
(21:43):
I don't I don't mean you any harm, but if
you will sit down with me and just tell me
what he said to you, I'll be able to know
for sure because I'm just vulnerable and I'm fragile, and
I'm not able to leave him. But if you will
sit down with me, you will give me like the key.
(22:05):
And she she finally said yes.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Did she was it a good I mean, I respect
the women that I'm saying, Like I talked to some
of the affair girls, and I respected I was very
upset with one of them, obviously, like the longtime one,
like I had a tough conversation, but I respected some
of the girls that all of them actually that had
the the balls to have a conversation with me.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
It's yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
And I just leaned into that because she didn't know
that he was in a relationship according to her you know, experience,
and when she was able, you know, when you know
someone in the way that they speak to you, sure,
and then someone else says, how the way that he
spoke to her, that's what did it for me. And
I was like, Okay, this is this is real and
(22:53):
this is true. And then leaving took, you know, a
little bit of strategy because we were living together, so
it was I waited until he was out of town
and I packed up all my.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Stuff and just made the break.
Speaker 4 (23:05):
Because he was so good, he was so good at
manipulating a line, and he had such good reason for everything.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
It took a lot.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
What would be the thing that you want people to know?
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Hmm, you are your greatest advocate and trust yourself because
you are rarely going to be wrong.
Speaker 4 (23:27):
And that's the gift that God gives each and every
one of us. Is this intuition, And the more we
lean into it and trust it, the more it shows
up for us. And just I don't know if you
feel this way, but I feel like it just gets
stronger and stronger to where you just don't even waste
your time with people.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
You can just sense it.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
You're like, no, this is not healthy, not healthy for me,
and I'm going to walk away. And I think that
we owe it to ourselves to treat ourselves like we
treat our friends, you know, like we're so good to
other people, you know. I mean you think about your baby,
you wouldn't do anything for them?
Speaker 3 (24:05):
And would we do anything for ourselves? You know?
Speaker 4 (24:08):
And that was a big revelation for me, is like
how much I give to others, but I wouldn't give
myself the same treatment? Like start with yourself, you know,
like Ava, when you wake up tomorrow morning, how do
you feel with no one around, not looking at your phone?
Like how does Ava feel about Ava?
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Today?
Speaker 4 (24:29):
And start from there, because I think we get such
an influx of not only social media information, but friends
and family and expectation and all these things like just
how do you feel about you? And like that's been
really a fun discovery, like how does Stephanie feel about
Stephanie today?
Speaker 3 (24:46):
Like how are we doing? Let's move from that.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
Place, and I think it's just a really healthy, a
healthier mindset, right, And we have access to really great therapists,
really great grief counselors, much more affordably than I think
ever before.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
Seek out the information because it's there.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
I mean, my hope, I don't know Jane if you
feel this way, but my hope is like people will
get time back, like I'll never get those what I
call the lost years back, I'll never get get them back.
And I feel like I'm probably trying to make up
for a lot of that, you know, I just stretching
my days as much as I can and not wasting
(25:26):
any time.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Well, and you're, you're, you're doing it all too. I mean,
you're you have your music career, you know, You're You've
got the book out, So it's like you're you're juggling
a lot of things while also doing some hard work.
Always because I think people that, you know, we're constantly evolving,
constantly doing the work, constantly having to pivot, Like, you know,
I learned something new this morning that I could have
(25:48):
done better, you know, so it's like, all right, I
still got to kind of work on that a little bit,
you know. So it's were always we always have to keep,
you know, recognizing where we need to get better at.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Yeah, I think that.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
We're never going to stop learning. And I think it's
what this book has revealed is I have so much
more to learn about myself and so much more to
kind of dive into of Just like I love making adjustments,
I just want to be better, right, that's that's you know.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
I was talking to my stepmom.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
Who she's just just an incredible woman, and she's like, success,
true success is when you wake up and can go
to bed liking the person that you are and be
like this person did a good job today, or you
know what, I need to make an adjustment.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
I'm gonna be better tomorrow.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
And I think that you know, in this business, we
have such wild goals for success and what our.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Levels of success are.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
But man, that's a super simple version, like do you
like yourself today?
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Right? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Well, Steph, I love you and I've always just been
a fan of you, So I'm so excited for everything
that you're doing. Everyone please please go get her book?
Why do we stay? And I'm just I'm so excited
for you, and I hope I'm so much success for
the book.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
Well, right back at you, I just want to commend
you because you're a kicking tail every which way. I
didn't get to have littles, and I just commend you
for how you when you talk about juggling, you navigate
it and you share it and you show.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
People it's all possible and that's just awesome. And ab it,
you got a good auto. You right there.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
I'm trying.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
I still think she's like five. I'm like, how are
you seventeen? I still tell people you're like, sex, isn't it? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (27:34):
I know, it's crazy.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
I appreciate you so much.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Thank you for having appreciate you stuff. Thank you
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