March 6, 2025 • 37 mins
Jana and Allan are ready to recap episode 4 of The Masked Singer season 13! They share their guesses using the clues during “Voices of Olympus: Unmasking of the Gods”
And we talk to legendary singer Clay Aiken about his experience sharing a beet costume with his American Idol competitor! Clay opens up about what it was like performing on the show, and we find out the one piece of wardrobe he kept after he was eliminated back in season 11!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Wine Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heeart Radio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Okay, Episode four of unmask and Unwine. Sorry, I'm never
gonna do that again, don't worry. Unmasking of the God
Thank you the voice of Olympus. Unmasking of the Gods
was this. I love the opening. I thought it was
so cool.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Jolie's like my favorite one.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Yeah, hands down. So I watched it with Jolie and Jase,
and they thought it was really cool. They're like, Mommy,
it's ghosts and she goes, oh, wait, gods because they
were all dressed in like the white the white costumes.
Uh so they were unmasking, not unmasking, but they were
showing us all the new contestants for this round. And
(00:45):
the first up was a Boogie Woogie. Kids loved him,
like loved, loved, loved him. They were like, he's just
like Jolly goes, He just like wants me. He makes
me want to have fun because there was her sort
of thing. I thought he had a good voice. I
thought it was a really fun performance, and I thought
it was a really good opener of the show.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Yeah, it's funny. Like the amount of them that I
think is a comedian.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Oh, he's one thousand percent a comedian. I would be
shocked if he wasn't, just like how he was moving,
you think, yeah, one thousand percent.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
So therefore, what do you think of the Andy Samberg guess?
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I think it's a really good guess. That's who Robin said,
but I Robin, yeah, Robin, Sorry, that weird. I actually
think it might be David Spade.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
M hmm. Interesting.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
It sounded like him, like his talking voice. It might be,
but I don't know. And I was trying to like
look at the height and the.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
David Spades, don't let you, don't let you heal the
talking voice.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
I'm sorry, his singing voice like I like, yeah, his
his his voice was what I meant. But even the
talking like the rules, no, no, no, who did you
think it was?
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Me?
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Yeah, I think it's I think Andy Samberg. I think
that's a good guess it was.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
I mean, they wanted to be a magician was one
of their clues. I wanted to be a clown.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Played yeah, play the magician on SNL.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
I didn't do any Google searching of that, But the
next person was space Ranger and I one thousand percent,
I actually no one thousand percent who that is?
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Oh yeah, okay, so.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
I feel like and everyone knew it too, even Nick Cannon.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Okay, well, I guess this is where my lack of
knowledge on American people where my guest goes right. And
this is based off some of the clues. But so
I think Olympian and I think boxer an Olympic was
an Olympic boxer because of some of the clues. But
(03:07):
also there's a slight lisp in the voice in some things.
A lot of boxers get that.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Why because they get hit hit so much? Really? Yeah,
do is there a liple get like big or something?
Speaker 1 (03:20):
No, I think it's more how the jawwalks. Oh okay,
So I don't know which one, but my so you
know who it is.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
I think it's Tracy Morgan. Just le Jenny thought it
was Tracy Morgan. Robin thought it was a Tracy Morgan,
and just the clues that he was saying, no, yeah,
I would be shocked if it wasn't him, really truly off,
then what did you think?
Speaker 1 (03:47):
I don't know. I just said it's a boxer will lisp.
I don't know which one, but it's definitely miles away
from Tracy Morgan.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
It's definitely not not to be rude, but it's definitely
not a singer.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
No, it's not because I put the singing at five
out of ten here on my notes. Dang yeah No.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Next up was the kid's favorite singer of the night.
They Loved, Loved, Loved the Griffin.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
The Eagle Lion Loved.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
The Griffin, Jolie said. She said, his voice is so beautiful.
I actually think I like him better than Coral. This
was her quote.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
I thought the costume was great. It's kind of sad, though,
because one of the things he said was something about
the dirt off a car, like some of the things
that people were mean to him made me sad.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Well, that wasn't that wasn't mean. That was more like
he had got so much stardom that someone was willing
to take the dirt from his car and treasure.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Oh, I thought it was like a mean thing. I
heard that one way wrong.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Oh, maybe I've heard it wrong.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
We'll have to listen back.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
I don't think so. It was like, Okay, you're so
fai miss and so current that even the dot from
your car is worth saving.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
The clues were a badge skyrocketed, skyrocketed into overnight success.
School Bell VHS with Pumpkin on it a scary movie.
Something happened recently for them to realize life is precious.
I liked the clues of Scream. Uh so the the
Matthew Lillard was a good one. I Rita also said
(05:27):
Freddy Prince, I feel like, I don't know if he
would do a show like this. He's they're pretty private.
I don't see him Freddy Prince, Yeah, I don't. I
don't know. I like the David Arcat guest. That was
my guess. That's what I went because he was in Scream.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
I feel like I just don't see him singing.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
I know, but that's what's so great about the show,
you know, Mafia Mafi. Next up was bat and from
the second she started talking about villain and misunderstood, I
was like and surrounded by you know, crazy is one
hundred percent of Housewife.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Well the creature of the night thing through me. I'm like,
but strange.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Yeah, I didn't know that one. I guess Bethany Frankel,
I didn't think they were saying Larsa Pippen, but I
don't feel like she would because she's not with Marcus
Jordan anymore, so I was. I didn't think that she'd
want to draw attention to that, even though I know
this was filmed before, but still, but the bat, I
love that. She was probably my favorite costume. I loved
(06:31):
her costume. And then she sang Espresso by Sabrina Carpenter,
which was a really fun song. But she's, you know,
obviously not I don't not a singer. No sex out
of ten on the scene, you gave her a six
out of ten. Why why an extra point because she
was a sexy bat. You get an extra one for
(06:54):
being a sexy bat. Oh, it's funny.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Don't get an extra one for being slightly better than
space ranging Okay, okay?
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Spent a holiday with Nick Cannon was another clue, so
someone that he dated. And then the final one was Pearl. Yeah,
loves performing baseball, Cherry my my notes with her. She
was definitely older. She kind of had that well, she
(07:27):
had some knowledge, I thought, with some of the things
she was saying, and then you could just tell her
singing voice. She sounded like she's had some life, a
little raspier, older, But I thought she was great. I
liked your costume. She's sang saving all My Love for you.
But Whitney Houston when she first started, I was like,
(07:48):
dang girl, definitely think she was a singer. I don't
think Jenny Thuchni Twain, I don't think that.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
I don't think she was that good a singer.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Noway, I think she definitely can sing.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Though my baromas are on people singing gives like it's
used by people.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
To what percentage did you given? We get a seven? Okay,
it's good.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Fis Shania Twaine. I'm pretty sure she'll be a ten
or a nine.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Well, the first one to unmask was the bat Sina
Shay and unfortunately we couldn't get Ghena this week to
talk about the revealing, so we invited American idol legend
Clay Aiken to join us on this week's Unmask and Unwine.
So let's take a break and then get Clay on
to talk about life and his experience on the mess
singer your hair, it's a little fluffy, it's getting a
(08:49):
little high.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
That doesn't mean fluffy. Fluffy is a texture.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Fluffy is not a texture.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Fluffy is a texture.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
It's not clay is fluffy a texture? No, no, thank you.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
No, I think I mean it's an adjective, not a texture.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Curly is texture.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Nos a shape.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
If fluffy's not a texture, then I wouldn't say curly
is a texture.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Right rough, there we go.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Okay, I don't think I know very many textures.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Well I know now that I'm thinking about, like heart. No, no,
texture is not what I'm so confused.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Okay, context, you'ved in the middle.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Of a Yeah, we've arrived in the middle of a
domestic That sounds aggressive. You've arrived and we're just jumping
right into it. But you've arrived in a debate, a
marital debate because I was saying his hair looks fluffy, Like,
it looks a little fluffy, but your hair looks great too.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
My hair looks my hair looks a hot mess. And
hot mess is also not a texture. Right now, this.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Looks great, It's okay, he's a mess.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Fluffy. Yeah, I don't think fluffy. It's something a texture,
something that you can feel, right, I don't think you can.
I don't think you can feel fluffy. So I'm gonna
stick with this not a texture. Did I win anything?
Speaker 2 (10:06):
A marital debate? Because I agree with you.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
I've been in thank you.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
There you go, and you won your first one, congratulations, and.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
I've won my first thing ever. I've never won anything before,
so that's firdus.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
You've never won anything.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
No, god, no, that's what I'm known for. I'm America's
never won number two? Are you kidding me? I'm always
coming in second place on.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Something, so I hear you on that. I've always been third.
Like every one of my songs on radio, it was
like I would get a number three, I cannot get
to one ever, Like it's just a it sits with me.
And now I'm like, all right, I'm just someone's got
to be third, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (10:46):
You know what, you have to own it it just
to you know, make it your brand. I don't know
if I got bronze, it's not as pretty a color
as silver. No, I'm just saying no.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
It's true.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Well, Clay, well, thank you for coming on to our
little fun show. I was able to do Mass Singer
last season, and I had so much fun on it.
And so when we were talking to Fox, I'm like, this,
we should just talk to people that have been on
the show, that have you know, and then and then
watched the season, So thank you for coming on. What
course I love about your season was that you got
(11:19):
to do it with the buddy, So I think that's
that's really cool, you know. I mean, you guys and
you did American Idol obviously together first and second. So
the fact that you guys were able to to pair
up again, I mean, was that was that your idea
or was that something Fox approached you with.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
That's something they came to us with. We were on
tour at the time. Uh together, We had been on
tour together, and I think we had just done uh
had we done Idle together earlier that year? Two? Yeah,
right before the season of Mass Singer tape we had
done Idle together and we had been our twentieth anniversary.
So I guess they'd seen us together and thought that
(11:54):
would be clever, and and you know, I had I
had actually reached out Mass Singer a few years prior
to that, a lot of it and personally, but had
somebody reached out because I love the show. I just
thought it was brilliant and thought, oh my god, I
want to dress up like a fool. Also, I was
kind of hoping I'd get to keep the costume, which
you know you don't, but I wanted to do it,
(12:15):
and they had said, you know, we're afraid that his
voice is too recognizable and people will you know, won't
be there, won't be the mystery aspect of it. So
both and Ruben had the same thing said to him
by them, So we were kind of thinking, oh, well,
this is going to be pretty quick. They're going to
guess real fast. But I think the fact that we
went on together and we aren't known as a duo
necessarily really threw the judges off. So it was kind
(12:38):
of a clever way to do it. If we had
gone on on our own, they might have been able
to guess, but since we were together, they were totally lost.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
What was your favorite part about doing the show?
Speaker 3 (12:48):
I see, that's funny. When I when I was thinking
about coming on here today, I was thinking, what can
I tell them about the experience? Because there's nothing It's
the most it's the most there's nothingness experience I've ever
had in TV, in the sense that you don't see anybody,
you know, you see I saw Reuben obviously, and I
(13:10):
saw our vocal you know, the vocal coach that we
worked with and our dressers and outside of that, you know,
it is such a well oiled machine. It is so
high security, high tech that it was almost like we
didn't have we weren't on a TV show experience. We
never went anywhere. I mean, it is the opposite of idol.
(13:31):
When we were constantly walking around the studio and doing
our own thing, it was a it was almost surreal.
We'd go, we'd show up, you know, you'd we'd leave
the hotel, always the same person picking us up from
the hotel every day. Have to be in our hood
and mask and everything before we got onto the set
the lot.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Yeah, I remember him. Alan would be like, why do
I just put on these gloves? I'm like, just put
on the like they just put the gloves on, Like
that's just what they You need to be completely covered,
He's like, even everything.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
And then you never seen, Yes, we did, you know,
we had a like a management rep or something with
us also and they had to be covered up too,
I guess, just in case. Which is funny because Corey
Feldman was also on our season, and obviously we never
see anyone but his dressing room, although we never again
saw him or anyone go into anything. His dressing room
was next to ours and we could hear him talking
(14:22):
in his bathroom through our bathroom, so and his speaking
voice is obviously so recognizable. That's the only person we
could guess because we could hear him talking in his
bathroom and practice in and whatnot. And I was like,
oh my god, that's Corey Feldman. He wants to be
on the show too. But you never see anybody it was.
It's sort of it's sort of a really wild experience
because of that, And I mean, I'm still incredibly impressed.
(14:46):
I had read a lot about how they do it
and how secretive it is, but I thought, there's no
way they actually follow through with that. That's a bunch
of crap. People just tell the story to make it
look mysterious. But no, the whole thing totally that secure,
and it made it memorable for that reason.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Yeah, we're still get the masks. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
This dude was sitting in the toilet, like sitting on
the toilet with the mask on and like the swatch
like to like try and scare me.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
And I'm like, oh, I was like, you know that
they're not going to go in the bathroom.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
No, like in our home now, like when we will
got that, he like, I don't even know where that
visor is now. I think you went and tried to
scare your son one time with it, but like he
had that and I walked in and he was literally
sitting on the toilet like I'm you know, on the
top of the toilet and with the mask. I mean,
I was scared shitless.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
I didn't keep the mask, but I definitely kept that
sweatshirt that said, don't talk to me.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
What is for you the thing that you know, obviously
this is a piece of the show, but what do
you want people to know? Like who is under the mask?
Because I feel like even as you know, you're an entertainer,
you're you know, you're always you perform, and there is
a piece of that mask that's that's layered on even
(16:02):
you know right now, we all do it so.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Like I'm not I'm not myself no right just.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Like oh you know, yeah, we all we all do it.
We all put on you know, either whether it's for
Instagram stories or for a post or whatever. And it's
like what who is behind the mask?
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Well, as it pertains to this, as it pertains to
doing mass.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Singer, you mean no to you like for you.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Oh, I don't know, you know, I said I was joking.
But I do think because of the way we came
into the public eye, very few people who were on
Idol got really well, at least in the early years.
I'll say, ever got a chance to build the mask.
I mean, you know, if you came. I always tell
people that the first two maybe three, but really the
(16:49):
first two seasons of the show, nobody, none of us
knew what to expect. Right the first season of Idol,
obviously they had no idea what to expect, but even
then it was I think they got like nine million
viewers that year and so, which at the time was
just good enough to get renewed. And our season jumped
to forty million viewers. So we didn't know going into
(17:11):
it what to expect, and there was there was so
little pretense with even the production of it. We sort
of just kind of went in on our own. We thought,
this is going to be a fun thing to do
for a few weeks, and then we're going to all
go back to our hometowns and live our lives normally.
So because we didn't know going into it what to expect,
I don't think any of us prepared, I mean I should.
(17:33):
We all show showed up looking even more of a
mess than I do today. I mean, we all just
kind of came as ourselves and hoped that it worked.
In subsequent seasons, I know, folks went on and you know,
they kind of prepare a little bit more. They'd be
dressed the part, or they'd have their you know, they'd
come with their stage name already. But we didn't have
a chance to do that. So I think to some
(17:54):
degree there hadn't been as much of a mask because
I didn't have a chance to put one on. I mean,
the only mask I can think of. Obviously, I was
not out of the closet at the time when I
did idle, but I wasn't out to myself either, So
it wasn't like I was hiding it from the world.
I was hiding it from everybody. So the I think,
(18:16):
I think I'm just me, and sometimes that works in
my favor and sometimes it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Well, I feel like even you just saying that, you know,
I remember that thing that happened back in the day,
and you got a lot of hate for it, But
it's like you're also just being yourself. Too, and you
were being fun and and I feel.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Like things that happened, oh so many things I've gotten hate.
Well I'm the identify which.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
One the Kelly Ripper.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Oh Kelly rip a thing? Oh god, yes.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
And I feel like if I was to put myself
in that situation, like there's so many times where I'm like,
babes not you know what I mean, or I'm just
and I don't mean it in a degrading way. I
don't mean it in a controlling way. I don't mean
it in a and I to have eyeballs and to
have you know, I can see how things can spin
a certain way, but it's like you didn't even really
(19:10):
get to have your voice.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
And really the irony there is that at the time,
Buena Vista was talking to me about my own talk
show and they had put me on. You know, Regis
was not on on Fridays ever, so she always had
a guest, uh, and they had put me on there
just kind of as a test thing, just to kind
of see how it would go. And yeah, so that
so I was very eager to make sure I got
(19:34):
to talk. And yeah, it was obviously just trying to
be fun and funny but uh, we found I mean,
I don't know that was that was that was more
of a that turned into more of a story than
I even realized. I was actually going through old clips
of things for when I put a Christmas album out
last year, the pr people wanted me to see if
(19:56):
I could pull together some clips of years past or whatnot.
And I was going through some of them and I
found like Entertainment Tonight stories about that. And I had
not known it had blown up as much as it did.
I mean, I didn't even realize in the moment it
had gotten so big. But we but we you know,
we spun it and tried to play it off as
a joke afterwards. Tory Spelling and I did the AMAS
(20:18):
a few days later, and she put her hand over
my mouth. And I'll tell you for for months after
that happened, I would walk through the airport and people
normally would want to take pictures. That wasn't surprising, but
they would be like, will you put your hand over
my mouth like in the picture? They'd want to do it. So,
you know, you just you make you make the best
of whatever is thrown.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
At you, right, and what do you do with the
the other side of it, that the hate of things
like where do you where do you store that? And
how do you how do you spin it to the
positive within yourself, because I think that's where I struggle
the most when negative things. It's like I do my best,
but it still sits and I don't. It's hard because
you're like, that wasn't my attention, That's not what I
(20:59):
meant to say, or we're meant to do, or I
know it probably looks bad, but.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
You know, well, well you don't. Back then, I probably
didn't do it as well. I mean, I had only
that was oh six, I think, and I had only
been idle was of three, So I've only been doing
it for three years. I'm twenty plus years past now,
and I've been doing I've been doing this a while.
So you get to a point where you realize, you know,
(21:26):
nobody wants, nobody pays attention to these things, like it's
not it's not the story you think it is. You
think that the whole world is knowing about this thing,
this bad story about you, in the press of this whatever,
but nobody's no. I mean, and and the irony is
when it's a good story and we want to get
it out. We're frustrated with our publicists because they don't nobody.
(21:47):
Nobody knows about how wonderful I was in this thing
or whatever, and you're mad about it. But when something
bad happens, you assume everybody knows. No, nobody's paying attention
to that either, and you, you know, it would be
what was that Hilton years ago, the website Perez Hilton,
and you'd think, oh my god, it's on Perez Hilton.
Everybody knows. But he got something like a million clicks
(22:09):
a day or something like that, which is great, right,
But there's three hundred and thirty million people in America,
and of those million clicks, at least half of them,
it was probably half that because people you know. So
you just start realizing as you get older and have
been doing it longer, it's just nobody's paying attention as
much as you think it is. It's just that everybody
(22:30):
in your world knows because they know you, and they're
paying attention to it. So you just have to train
your brain to not blow things out of proportion.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
What do you love most about idle and what do
you not love with the new changes of everything?
Speaker 3 (22:48):
Oh? God, well, I mean you know, it's very different.
It's almost like, I mean, it's very apples and oranges. Now.
There was an organic nature to it when I did it,
and I we I feel very lucky that I did
it when I did it, not just because you know,
being the new the early seasons made it a bigger deal,
(23:10):
but because people all watched TV together back then, right,
it was a water cooler discussion. In two thousand and three,
everybody was like, oh, did you see Idol last night?
And the country did it together and we were sort
of I mean, our season was sort of the last
time America did anything as a group. You know, they
watched the show together, so that made it wonderful. And
(23:31):
I'm also lucky because at the time I was on it,
the show was produced by the company that would end
up managing and being the record label for the contestants
who were on it. So there was a vested interest
in the production to make sure that the people who
were on the show had long careers, had lasting careers.
And then later the show began to you know, they
(23:54):
sold it, and the show was produced to be a
TV show, and the networks want a great show, they
want the ratings to be wondering where they want the
overnights to come in strong, and they didn't necessarily have
a vested interest in whether or not the contestants had
a long career, So the show was produced a different way. Right.
It's very much more about the judges now than it
used to be.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
I kind of feel that same way with a voice too,
where I feel like it's more about the judges than
it is in.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
So many ways the show is. The contestants are there
to give the judges something to talk about.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Right, and then the really good ones I feel like
they just leave to then try to have their own
either stardom on TikTok and then grow it that way.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Right, I mean I gues. I mean, look, Benson Boone
is a perfect example. He did it for a minute
and he was like, oh let me get out of
here quick before it.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Ruins me or I signed my life away.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Yes before I so, And now he's bigger than anybody else.
So I just feel lucky that I did it when
I did it. I also, the world is different, so
it's the irony behind what we were just talking about, with
the negative stuff and the press that doesn't happen anymore.
You couldn't. Like the first five years of my career
(25:02):
were haunted by rumors about my sexual orientation and people
trying to dig into that and get me to come out.
And hell, I hadn't even figured it out completely myself.
You could never do that to somebody now in twenty
twenty four, twenty twenty five. You couldn't do it now either.
But and that part is good, I would argue that
(25:23):
part's good. But we have softened a little bit, like
we don't criticize it all. And I feel like shows
like Idol in many ways were better when they were
a little bit more critical. Like I grew from some
of the things that were said to me by Simon Cowell, right,
and they were harsh at the time and they hurt
to hear, but they gave me something to improve upon.
(25:45):
And I don't know that we're doing too much to
help these contestants improve. You know, you want them to
be incredible, even if they're great at the beginning, you
want them to grow some. I remember I went on
and did the Sea with that Iam tongky one Idol
and did some mentoring with him, and he was in
(26:05):
I mean just his voice in the room with him.
It's you. It strikes you he's that good. But throughout
the season he didn't go anywhere like it was the
same thing. You know, he was already great, but there
there should have been opportunities for him to improve, like
put the guitar down, put the guitar down, and do
something a little bit different this week. And I don't
(26:26):
know that we we pushed these kids to improve because
we're scared to death that we're going to get the
audience angry at us if we say anything other than
a glowing compliment.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
I do miss the Simon Cowl days, I think, but
I also can understand how in this day and age
it's too it would be too harsh, But I.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
And it is the day and age, right because even
Simon Cowell doesn't do it now, America's got talent.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Yea, yeah, but there's a piece of me that I mean.
It was harsh, but he was telling the truth.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
He was and like I said, he was telling the truth.
And you know what, Ruben and I joke with people
that it was the best boot camp in the world
because every aspect of that show would prepare you for
the real world afterwards. So you know, why was I
able to survive some of this tabloid crap or you know,
criticism from Kelly Rip or whatever. It's because I stood
(27:33):
on a stage in front of forty million people live
on TV and had Simon Cowell say he preferred me
with his eyes closed, like, if you can survive that,
you can survive anything. And so sometimes the critiques were
harsh and maybe unfair, but at the same time, some
of it was constructive and it made you realize, wait,
I probably shouldn't do that. Let me stop. Apparently I
(27:56):
wink too much or whatever it is. And you work
to improve yourself. And I think right that we all,
whether it's in that business or any business, we should
want to better ourselves, right, We should want to do
better the next time, and we can't if someone's not
telling us how to. Right.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
I think there's like a happy medium with it too,
you know, where it's like, take some of the harshness
and the softness and mix it together so that way
the kids want to want to improve the coachure and
Simon Cowell or you know, whoever it is.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
I'm just thinking. So if that was a two thousand
and three, then the only outside criticism you would have
had would have been like fans forums or chat rooms
like there would have been no social media then, was there.
Do you think the stage that you were out in
your life where you've alluded to that you well, you
were still confused about your sexuality. Would you have rather
(28:52):
went through that experience of being on that show back
then without the intrusion of social media or do you
think it would have been easier to do it now
with us when there's such an influx of opinion on
things due to social media. I think it was more
difficult then to think it'd be more difficult.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
No, well, I mean it's different. It was more difficult
then simply because the culture had not caught up to
where we are today. I mean, I don't know. Yeah,
we didn't have social media, right, we had fan forums
and message boards and that kind of thing, but no Twitter,
no Facebook, and under that, but the culture and society
had not quite was not okay with it. I mean,
(29:33):
we had politicians running on very well that you still do,
but but we had politicians running for office on very
homophobic platforms back then.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
And the mood of the country was not one that
was comfortable with it. It was it was still very
it was still very taboos. So to that degree, i'd
I would have rather done it now, right, it would
have been easier. But but again, you know, I can't
regret anything, I mean anything that I had, anything had
(30:05):
gone differently. I mean, I've got a kid now. I
never would have had a kid had it not been
for confiding in the in the friend who I had
the child with about being gay before I did told
many other people. I mean, every it's like sliding doors, right,
if you do anything different, you won't be where you
are today. So I don't regret anything, but certainly I
(30:27):
will say this, I'm certainly very happy, very glad that
I believe I was the last person who ended up
on the cover of a magazine because they came out
of the closet after I came out, everyone was able
to sort of kind of mention it on Instagram or
(30:49):
whatever and let it kind of fly under the radar,
and it wasn't a big story. So I'm I'm glad
that it doesn't affect people in such a you know,
splashy impactful way.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Right, because I mean, if you think about too. Allen
DeGeneres came out in ninety seven, so that isn't that
long ago, you know, And so to your point too,
I mean it's it shouldn't be I'm glad you got
to tell your story, obviously, but it shouldn't be this
like cover, like you're this anomaly, you know, right.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
I mean Lance Bass came out I think two years.
I think he came out in six and I was
in eight and st Interestingly enough, all the other people
who you think about who are out in the public
eye now, most of them came out afterwards. I mean
even Neil Patrick Harris didn't come out till after me,
and Ricky Martin and Anderson Cooper and all these folks,
(31:40):
they were several years after we did. So the society
made it more more acceptable, made it easier for people,
and you know, I'm glad that has happened. I'm glad
that young people and old people who are coming out
to don't have to deal with it in the same way.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Yeah, to close up, what is your favorite part about parenthood?
Speaker 3 (32:05):
Well, I've got a sixteen year old now, so it's
it's a little less than he used to.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
He's got it. Well, we've got we've got a seventeen
year old, so so you get it. Well, he gets
it more. I have a lovely step child, step son
and so but yees, so we've got to get it
sixteen month old, a six nine and then seventeen.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
Well, I think it's also the you know, the teenage
boy and dad start. You know, he wants his independence now,
which obviously I want to give him. I'm sure you're
dealing with the same thing you want to give him.
But you know you ain't an adult, dammit, And you
don't get to make all your decisions on your own.
And know you don't get to drive around this afternoon
(32:46):
after school when there's a tornado coming. You get your buttet,
you know what I mean, So that that becomes it
comes a fun challenge. There are a few little one
upsmanship going on, but it's it's more and more in
press and exciting now. I mean, obviously there was the cute,
cuddly times and the sweet funny stuff when they he
was three, four, five, seven, whatever. Now you know, I'm
(33:09):
seeing him turn into sometimes very moody, but oftentimes incredibly
mature young man who has an idea of what he
wants to do with his life after school. I see
a lot of ways that he's handling things differently than
I would have, which is sort of impressive to me.
(33:31):
I'm getting to watch this adult start to become an adult,
and that is exciting to see. It makes me a
little sad because I see pictures of him on my
screensaver when he was young, and I'm like, Oh, where's
that kid. But it's nice to have to have been
a part of this young man becoming an independent person.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Now that's crazy. What's that start? Is at like eighty
percent of the time that you spend with your kids
as before the age of ten.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Yeah, it's the most depressing style. I can't even like,
is it truly?
Speaker 3 (34:05):
Really?
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Yeah, it's so sad. We are we are we in love?
Speaker 3 (34:09):
Clay, Oh God, I don't have. I don't have. I'm
too stubborn to be willing to change myself for anybody.
I wasn't willing to do that, right, But I was not.
I was more than happy and willing to change myself
fifteen years ago for someone. I was, Oh, whatever I
need to be, And now I just I don't want
(34:30):
it that bad. So when the right person comes along,
if I happen to meet them, because I've left the
house for the first time in a month, then I'll
then it'll work out beautifully because I'll be myself. But
I'm not looking for it, and like I said, I
don't leave the house enough for it to fall in
my lap. So I'm perfectly happy living my life at
(34:50):
this age the way I want to and not.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Very younger than us. So you cannot do.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
That, Okay, I don't think that's possible, but I yes, Wait,
how old are you now? You tell me first told
you I'm forty.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
One, I'm forty four and I'm forty six, so I
was right, I'm older.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Yeah, well, but because I look so it's just because
I look so adorable and young, and because I still
thinks i'm twenty four from yes, and it's twenty two years.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
That's wild because I remember watching so that just yes,
aging the you had your Christmas album? Are you doing
any more music or what can listeners expect in this
twenty twenty five?
Speaker 3 (35:34):
You know, I left music for a long time to
do other things, have a kid be around for him,
do politics quite a bit, and I'm just now getting
to a point where I am starting to think, you
know what, I don't ever want to do politics again.
Screw all of them. So I'm going back to performing more.
I imagine I'll do some more music. I don't have
(35:55):
a specific plan for what that would be. Christmas has
always been sort of my favorite thing to sing at
and perform yep, so the Christmas Album was a way
to continue to do that and kind of add to
the other Christmas projects I've done. But I am starting
to get a little bit of an itch to do
some other stuff, so I imagine that'll happen before too long.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
I love that. Well, Clay, thank you for coming on.
We appreciate you just being open and authentic and letting
down the mask.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Dun dun dug.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Yes, yes, thank you.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
Thanks for thinking I was younger than you. I appreciate it.
I mean I really truly did.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
I thought when I used to watch, you know, watch
in high school, you were or sways and two. No,
that was I just graduated.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
But yeah, we we were old contestants every for Like
I said, everything about season two was weird. We were old.
All of us were twenty three and twenty four. Ruben
kim Lock, myself, we were all twenty four, and after
us they all were eighteen. So yeah, we were We're
the grandparents of the show. I don't even think there's
there's I mean, Kelly and Justin were Kelly's only forty two,
(36:59):
I think now still so. Ruben and I literally still
are the oldest Idol contestants. We are the grandpa's but.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Young at heart. Yes, there you are all right? Well, Clay,
thank you, and I hope you survived the strong winds.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Yes, I think we might make it. I appreciate it.
Wine Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heeart Radio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Okay, Episode four of unmask and Unwine. Sorry, I'm never
gonna do that again, don't worry. Unmasking of the God
Thank you the voice of Olympus. Unmasking of the Gods
was this. I love the opening. I thought it was
so cool.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Jolie's like my favorite one.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Yeah, hands down. So I watched it with Jolie and Jase,
and they thought it was really cool. They're like, Mommy,
it's ghosts and she goes, oh, wait, gods because they
were all dressed in like the white the white costumes.
Uh so they were unmasking, not unmasking, but they were
showing us all the new contestants for this round. And
(00:45):
the first up was a Boogie Woogie. Kids loved him,
like loved, loved, loved him. They were like, he's just
like Jolly goes, He just like wants me. He makes
me want to have fun because there was her sort
of thing. I thought he had a good voice. I
thought it was a really fun performance, and I thought
it was a really good opener of the show.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Yeah, it's funny. Like the amount of them that I
think is a comedian.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Oh, he's one thousand percent a comedian. I would be
shocked if he wasn't, just like how he was moving,
you think, yeah, one thousand percent.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
So therefore, what do you think of the Andy Samberg guess?
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I think it's a really good guess. That's who Robin said,
but I Robin, yeah, Robin, Sorry, that weird. I actually
think it might be David Spade.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
M hmm. Interesting.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
It sounded like him, like his talking voice. It might be,
but I don't know. And I was trying to like
look at the height and the.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
David Spades, don't let you, don't let you heal the
talking voice.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
I'm sorry, his singing voice like I like, yeah, his
his his voice was what I meant. But even the
talking like the rules, no, no, no, who did you
think it was?
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Me?
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Yeah, I think it's I think Andy Samberg. I think
that's a good guess it was.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
I mean, they wanted to be a magician was one
of their clues. I wanted to be a clown.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Played yeah, play the magician on SNL.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
I didn't do any Google searching of that, But the
next person was space Ranger and I one thousand percent,
I actually no one thousand percent who that is?
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Oh yeah, okay, so.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
I feel like and everyone knew it too, even Nick Cannon.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Okay, well, I guess this is where my lack of
knowledge on American people where my guest goes right. And
this is based off some of the clues. But so
I think Olympian and I think boxer an Olympic was
an Olympic boxer because of some of the clues. But
(03:07):
also there's a slight lisp in the voice in some things.
A lot of boxers get that.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Why because they get hit hit so much? Really? Yeah,
do is there a liple get like big or something?
Speaker 1 (03:20):
No, I think it's more how the jawwalks. Oh okay,
So I don't know which one, but my so you
know who it is.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
I think it's Tracy Morgan. Just le Jenny thought it
was Tracy Morgan. Robin thought it was a Tracy Morgan,
and just the clues that he was saying, no, yeah,
I would be shocked if it wasn't him, really truly off,
then what did you think?
Speaker 1 (03:47):
I don't know. I just said it's a boxer will lisp.
I don't know which one, but it's definitely miles away
from Tracy Morgan.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
It's definitely not not to be rude, but it's definitely
not a singer.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
No, it's not because I put the singing at five
out of ten here on my notes. Dang yeah No.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Next up was the kid's favorite singer of the night.
They Loved, Loved, Loved the Griffin.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
The Eagle Lion Loved.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
The Griffin, Jolie said. She said, his voice is so beautiful.
I actually think I like him better than Coral. This
was her quote.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
I thought the costume was great. It's kind of sad, though,
because one of the things he said was something about
the dirt off a car, like some of the things
that people were mean to him made me sad.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Well, that wasn't that wasn't mean. That was more like
he had got so much stardom that someone was willing
to take the dirt from his car and treasure.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Oh, I thought it was like a mean thing. I
heard that one way wrong.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Oh, maybe I've heard it wrong.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
We'll have to listen back.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
I don't think so. It was like, Okay, you're so
fai miss and so current that even the dot from
your car is worth saving.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
The clues were a badge skyrocketed, skyrocketed into overnight success.
School Bell VHS with Pumpkin on it a scary movie.
Something happened recently for them to realize life is precious.
I liked the clues of Scream. Uh so the the
Matthew Lillard was a good one. I Rita also said
(05:27):
Freddy Prince, I feel like, I don't know if he
would do a show like this. He's they're pretty private.
I don't see him Freddy Prince, Yeah, I don't. I
don't know. I like the David Arcat guest. That was
my guess. That's what I went because he was in Scream.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
I feel like I just don't see him singing.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
I know, but that's what's so great about the show,
you know, Mafia Mafi. Next up was bat and from
the second she started talking about villain and misunderstood, I
was like and surrounded by you know, crazy is one
hundred percent of Housewife.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Well the creature of the night thing through me. I'm like,
but strange.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Yeah, I didn't know that one. I guess Bethany Frankel,
I didn't think they were saying Larsa Pippen, but I
don't feel like she would because she's not with Marcus
Jordan anymore, so I was. I didn't think that she'd
want to draw attention to that, even though I know
this was filmed before, but still, but the bat, I
love that. She was probably my favorite costume. I loved
(06:31):
her costume. And then she sang Espresso by Sabrina Carpenter,
which was a really fun song. But she's, you know,
obviously not I don't not a singer. No sex out
of ten on the scene, you gave her a six
out of ten. Why why an extra point because she
was a sexy bat. You get an extra one for
(06:54):
being a sexy bat. Oh, it's funny.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Don't get an extra one for being slightly better than
space ranging Okay, okay?
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Spent a holiday with Nick Cannon was another clue, so
someone that he dated. And then the final one was Pearl. Yeah,
loves performing baseball, Cherry my my notes with her. She
was definitely older. She kind of had that well, she
(07:27):
had some knowledge, I thought, with some of the things
she was saying, and then you could just tell her
singing voice. She sounded like she's had some life, a
little raspier, older, But I thought she was great. I
liked your costume. She's sang saving all My Love for you.
But Whitney Houston when she first started, I was like,
(07:48):
dang girl, definitely think she was a singer. I don't
think Jenny Thuchni Twain, I don't think that.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
I don't think she was that good a singer.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Noway, I think she definitely can sing.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Though my baromas are on people singing gives like it's
used by people.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
To what percentage did you given? We get a seven? Okay,
it's good.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Fis Shania Twaine. I'm pretty sure she'll be a ten
or a nine.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Well, the first one to unmask was the bat Sina
Shay and unfortunately we couldn't get Ghena this week to
talk about the revealing, so we invited American idol legend
Clay Aiken to join us on this week's Unmask and Unwine.
So let's take a break and then get Clay on
to talk about life and his experience on the mess
singer your hair, it's a little fluffy, it's getting a
(08:49):
little high.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
That doesn't mean fluffy. Fluffy is a texture.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Fluffy is not a texture.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Fluffy is a texture.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
It's not clay is fluffy a texture? No, no, thank you.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
No, I think I mean it's an adjective, not a texture.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Curly is texture.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Nos a shape.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
If fluffy's not a texture, then I wouldn't say curly
is a texture.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Right rough, there we go.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Okay, I don't think I know very many textures.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Well I know now that I'm thinking about, like heart. No, no,
texture is not what I'm so confused.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Okay, context, you'ved in the middle.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Of a Yeah, we've arrived in the middle of a
domestic That sounds aggressive. You've arrived and we're just jumping
right into it. But you've arrived in a debate, a
marital debate because I was saying his hair looks fluffy, Like,
it looks a little fluffy, but your hair looks great too.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
My hair looks my hair looks a hot mess. And
hot mess is also not a texture. Right now, this.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Looks great, It's okay, he's a mess.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Fluffy. Yeah, I don't think fluffy. It's something a texture,
something that you can feel, right, I don't think you can.
I don't think you can feel fluffy. So I'm gonna
stick with this not a texture. Did I win anything?
Speaker 2 (10:06):
A marital debate? Because I agree with you.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
I've been in thank you.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
There you go, and you won your first one, congratulations, and.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
I've won my first thing ever. I've never won anything before,
so that's firdus.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
You've never won anything.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
No, god, no, that's what I'm known for. I'm America's
never won number two? Are you kidding me? I'm always
coming in second place on.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Something, so I hear you on that. I've always been third.
Like every one of my songs on radio, it was
like I would get a number three, I cannot get
to one ever, Like it's just a it sits with me.
And now I'm like, all right, I'm just someone's got
to be third, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (10:46):
You know what, you have to own it it just
to you know, make it your brand. I don't know
if I got bronze, it's not as pretty a color
as silver. No, I'm just saying no.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
It's true.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Well, Clay, well, thank you for coming on to our
little fun show. I was able to do Mass Singer
last season, and I had so much fun on it.
And so when we were talking to Fox, I'm like, this,
we should just talk to people that have been on
the show, that have you know, and then and then
watched the season, So thank you for coming on. What
course I love about your season was that you got
(11:19):
to do it with the buddy, So I think that's
that's really cool, you know. I mean, you guys and
you did American Idol obviously together first and second. So
the fact that you guys were able to to pair
up again, I mean, was that was that your idea
or was that something Fox approached you with.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
That's something they came to us with. We were on
tour at the time. Uh together, We had been on
tour together, and I think we had just done uh
had we done Idle together earlier that year? Two? Yeah,
right before the season of Mass Singer tape we had
done Idle together and we had been our twentieth anniversary.
So I guess they'd seen us together and thought that
(11:54):
would be clever, and and you know, I had I
had actually reached out Mass Singer a few years prior
to that, a lot of it and personally, but had
somebody reached out because I love the show. I just
thought it was brilliant and thought, oh my god, I
want to dress up like a fool. Also, I was
kind of hoping I'd get to keep the costume, which
you know you don't, but I wanted to do it,
(12:15):
and they had said, you know, we're afraid that his
voice is too recognizable and people will you know, won't
be there, won't be the mystery aspect of it. So
both and Ruben had the same thing said to him
by them, So we were kind of thinking, oh, well,
this is going to be pretty quick. They're going to
guess real fast. But I think the fact that we
went on together and we aren't known as a duo
necessarily really threw the judges off. So it was kind
(12:38):
of a clever way to do it. If we had
gone on on our own, they might have been able
to guess, but since we were together, they were totally lost.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
What was your favorite part about doing the show?
Speaker 3 (12:48):
I see, that's funny. When I when I was thinking
about coming on here today, I was thinking, what can
I tell them about the experience? Because there's nothing It's
the most it's the most there's nothingness experience I've ever
had in TV, in the sense that you don't see anybody,
you know, you see I saw Reuben obviously, and I
(13:10):
saw our vocal you know, the vocal coach that we
worked with and our dressers and outside of that, you know,
it is such a well oiled machine. It is so
high security, high tech that it was almost like we
didn't have we weren't on a TV show experience. We
never went anywhere. I mean, it is the opposite of idol.
(13:31):
When we were constantly walking around the studio and doing
our own thing, it was a it was almost surreal.
We'd go, we'd show up, you know, you'd we'd leave
the hotel, always the same person picking us up from
the hotel every day. Have to be in our hood
and mask and everything before we got onto the set
the lot.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Yeah, I remember him. Alan would be like, why do
I just put on these gloves? I'm like, just put
on the like they just put the gloves on, Like
that's just what they You need to be completely covered,
He's like, even everything.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
And then you never seen, Yes, we did, you know,
we had a like a management rep or something with
us also and they had to be covered up too,
I guess, just in case. Which is funny because Corey
Feldman was also on our season, and obviously we never
see anyone but his dressing room, although we never again
saw him or anyone go into anything. His dressing room
was next to ours and we could hear him talking
(14:22):
in his bathroom through our bathroom, so and his speaking
voice is obviously so recognizable. That's the only person we
could guess because we could hear him talking in his
bathroom and practice in and whatnot. And I was like,
oh my god, that's Corey Feldman. He wants to be
on the show too. But you never see anybody it was.
It's sort of it's sort of a really wild experience
because of that, And I mean, I'm still incredibly impressed.
(14:46):
I had read a lot about how they do it
and how secretive it is, but I thought, there's no
way they actually follow through with that. That's a bunch
of crap. People just tell the story to make it
look mysterious. But no, the whole thing totally that secure,
and it made it memorable for that reason.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Yeah, we're still get the masks. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
This dude was sitting in the toilet, like sitting on
the toilet with the mask on and like the swatch
like to like try and scare me.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
And I'm like, oh, I was like, you know that
they're not going to go in the bathroom.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
No, like in our home now, like when we will
got that, he like, I don't even know where that
visor is now. I think you went and tried to
scare your son one time with it, but like he
had that and I walked in and he was literally
sitting on the toilet like I'm you know, on the
top of the toilet and with the mask. I mean,
I was scared shitless.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
I didn't keep the mask, but I definitely kept that
sweatshirt that said, don't talk to me.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
What is for you the thing that you know, obviously
this is a piece of the show, but what do
you want people to know? Like who is under the mask?
Because I feel like even as you know, you're an entertainer,
you're you know, you're always you perform, and there is
a piece of that mask that's that's layered on even
(16:02):
you know right now, we all do it so.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Like I'm not I'm not myself no right just.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Like oh you know, yeah, we all we all do it.
We all put on you know, either whether it's for
Instagram stories or for a post or whatever. And it's
like what who is behind the mask?
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Well, as it pertains to this, as it pertains to
doing mass.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Singer, you mean no to you like for you.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Oh, I don't know, you know, I said I was joking.
But I do think because of the way we came
into the public eye, very few people who were on
Idol got really well, at least in the early years.
I'll say, ever got a chance to build the mask.
I mean, you know, if you came. I always tell
people that the first two maybe three, but really the
(16:49):
first two seasons of the show, nobody, none of us
knew what to expect. Right the first season of Idol,
obviously they had no idea what to expect, but even
then it was I think they got like nine million
viewers that year and so, which at the time was
just good enough to get renewed. And our season jumped
to forty million viewers. So we didn't know going into
(17:11):
it what to expect, and there was there was so
little pretense with even the production of it. We sort
of just kind of went in on our own. We thought,
this is going to be a fun thing to do
for a few weeks, and then we're going to all
go back to our hometowns and live our lives normally.
So because we didn't know going into it what to expect,
I don't think any of us prepared, I mean I should.
(17:33):
We all show showed up looking even more of a
mess than I do today. I mean, we all just
kind of came as ourselves and hoped that it worked.
In subsequent seasons, I know, folks went on and you know,
they kind of prepare a little bit more. They'd be
dressed the part, or they'd have their you know, they'd
come with their stage name already. But we didn't have
a chance to do that. So I think to some
(17:54):
degree there hadn't been as much of a mask because
I didn't have a chance to put one on. I mean,
the only mask I can think of. Obviously, I was
not out of the closet at the time when I
did idle, but I wasn't out to myself either, So
it wasn't like I was hiding it from the world.
I was hiding it from everybody. So the I think,
(18:16):
I think I'm just me, and sometimes that works in
my favor and sometimes it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Well, I feel like even you just saying that, you know,
I remember that thing that happened back in the day,
and you got a lot of hate for it, But
it's like you're also just being yourself. Too, and you
were being fun and and I feel.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Like things that happened, oh so many things I've gotten hate.
Well I'm the identify which.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
One the Kelly Ripper.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Oh Kelly rip a thing? Oh god, yes.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
And I feel like if I was to put myself
in that situation, like there's so many times where I'm like,
babes not you know what I mean, or I'm just
and I don't mean it in a degrading way. I
don't mean it in a controlling way. I don't mean
it in a and I to have eyeballs and to
have you know, I can see how things can spin
a certain way, but it's like you didn't even really
(19:10):
get to have your voice.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
And really the irony there is that at the time,
Buena Vista was talking to me about my own talk
show and they had put me on. You know, Regis
was not on on Fridays ever, so she always had
a guest, uh, and they had put me on there
just kind of as a test thing, just to kind
of see how it would go. And yeah, so that
so I was very eager to make sure I got
(19:34):
to talk. And yeah, it was obviously just trying to
be fun and funny but uh, we found I mean,
I don't know that was that was that was more
of a that turned into more of a story than
I even realized. I was actually going through old clips
of things for when I put a Christmas album out
last year, the pr people wanted me to see if
(19:56):
I could pull together some clips of years past or whatnot.
And I was going through some of them and I
found like Entertainment Tonight stories about that. And I had
not known it had blown up as much as it did.
I mean, I didn't even realize in the moment it
had gotten so big. But we but we you know,
we spun it and tried to play it off as
a joke afterwards. Tory Spelling and I did the AMAS
(20:18):
a few days later, and she put her hand over
my mouth. And I'll tell you for for months after
that happened, I would walk through the airport and people
normally would want to take pictures. That wasn't surprising, but
they would be like, will you put your hand over
my mouth like in the picture? They'd want to do it. So,
you know, you just you make you make the best
of whatever is thrown.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
At you, right, and what do you do with the
the other side of it, that the hate of things
like where do you where do you store that? And
how do you how do you spin it to the
positive within yourself, because I think that's where I struggle
the most when negative things. It's like I do my best,
but it still sits and I don't. It's hard because
you're like, that wasn't my attention, That's not what I
(20:59):
meant to say, or we're meant to do, or I
know it probably looks bad, but.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
You know, well, well you don't. Back then, I probably
didn't do it as well. I mean, I had only
that was oh six, I think, and I had only
been idle was of three, So I've only been doing
it for three years. I'm twenty plus years past now,
and I've been doing I've been doing this a while.
So you get to a point where you realize, you know,
(21:26):
nobody wants, nobody pays attention to these things, like it's
not it's not the story you think it is. You
think that the whole world is knowing about this thing,
this bad story about you, in the press of this whatever,
but nobody's no. I mean, and and the irony is
when it's a good story and we want to get
it out. We're frustrated with our publicists because they don't nobody.
(21:47):
Nobody knows about how wonderful I was in this thing
or whatever, and you're mad about it. But when something
bad happens, you assume everybody knows. No, nobody's paying attention
to that either, and you, you know, it would be
what was that Hilton years ago, the website Perez Hilton,
and you'd think, oh my god, it's on Perez Hilton.
Everybody knows. But he got something like a million clicks
(22:09):
a day or something like that, which is great, right,
But there's three hundred and thirty million people in America,
and of those million clicks, at least half of them,
it was probably half that because people you know. So
you just start realizing as you get older and have
been doing it longer, it's just nobody's paying attention as
much as you think it is. It's just that everybody
(22:30):
in your world knows because they know you, and they're
paying attention to it. So you just have to train
your brain to not blow things out of proportion.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
What do you love most about idle and what do
you not love with the new changes of everything?
Speaker 3 (22:48):
Oh? God, well, I mean you know, it's very different.
It's almost like, I mean, it's very apples and oranges. Now.
There was an organic nature to it when I did it,
and I we I feel very lucky that I did
it when I did it, not just because you know,
being the new the early seasons made it a bigger deal,
(23:10):
but because people all watched TV together back then, right,
it was a water cooler discussion. In two thousand and three,
everybody was like, oh, did you see Idol last night?
And the country did it together and we were sort
of I mean, our season was sort of the last
time America did anything as a group. You know, they
watched the show together, so that made it wonderful. And
(23:31):
I'm also lucky because at the time I was on it,
the show was produced by the company that would end
up managing and being the record label for the contestants
who were on it. So there was a vested interest
in the production to make sure that the people who
were on the show had long careers, had lasting careers.
And then later the show began to you know, they
(23:54):
sold it, and the show was produced to be a
TV show, and the networks want a great show, they
want the ratings to be wondering where they want the
overnights to come in strong, and they didn't necessarily have
a vested interest in whether or not the contestants had
a long career, So the show was produced a different way. Right.
It's very much more about the judges now than it
used to be.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
I kind of feel that same way with a voice too,
where I feel like it's more about the judges than
it is in.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
So many ways the show is. The contestants are there
to give the judges something to talk about.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Right, and then the really good ones I feel like
they just leave to then try to have their own
either stardom on TikTok and then grow it that way.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Right, I mean I gues. I mean, look, Benson Boone
is a perfect example. He did it for a minute
and he was like, oh let me get out of
here quick before it.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Ruins me or I signed my life away.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Yes before I so, And now he's bigger than anybody else.
So I just feel lucky that I did it when
I did it. I also, the world is different, so
it's the irony behind what we were just talking about, with
the negative stuff and the press that doesn't happen anymore.
You couldn't. Like the first five years of my career
(25:02):
were haunted by rumors about my sexual orientation and people
trying to dig into that and get me to come out.
And hell, I hadn't even figured it out completely myself.
You could never do that to somebody now in twenty
twenty four, twenty twenty five. You couldn't do it now either.
But and that part is good, I would argue that
(25:23):
part's good. But we have softened a little bit, like
we don't criticize it all. And I feel like shows
like Idol in many ways were better when they were
a little bit more critical. Like I grew from some
of the things that were said to me by Simon Cowell, right,
and they were harsh at the time and they hurt
to hear, but they gave me something to improve upon.
(25:45):
And I don't know that we're doing too much to
help these contestants improve. You know, you want them to
be incredible, even if they're great at the beginning, you
want them to grow some. I remember I went on
and did the Sea with that Iam tongky one Idol
and did some mentoring with him, and he was in
(26:05):
I mean just his voice in the room with him.
It's you. It strikes you he's that good. But throughout
the season he didn't go anywhere like it was the
same thing. You know, he was already great, but there
there should have been opportunities for him to improve, like
put the guitar down, put the guitar down, and do
something a little bit different this week. And I don't
(26:26):
know that we we pushed these kids to improve because
we're scared to death that we're going to get the
audience angry at us if we say anything other than
a glowing compliment.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
I do miss the Simon Cowl days, I think, but
I also can understand how in this day and age
it's too it would be too harsh, But I.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
And it is the day and age, right because even
Simon Cowell doesn't do it now, America's got talent.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Yea, yeah, but there's a piece of me that I mean.
It was harsh, but he was telling the truth.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
He was and like I said, he was telling the truth.
And you know what, Ruben and I joke with people
that it was the best boot camp in the world
because every aspect of that show would prepare you for
the real world afterwards. So you know, why was I
able to survive some of this tabloid crap or you know,
criticism from Kelly Rip or whatever. It's because I stood
(27:33):
on a stage in front of forty million people live
on TV and had Simon Cowell say he preferred me
with his eyes closed, like, if you can survive that,
you can survive anything. And so sometimes the critiques were
harsh and maybe unfair, but at the same time, some
of it was constructive and it made you realize, wait,
I probably shouldn't do that. Let me stop. Apparently I
(27:56):
wink too much or whatever it is. And you work
to improve yourself. And I think right that we all,
whether it's in that business or any business, we should
want to better ourselves, right, We should want to do
better the next time, and we can't if someone's not
telling us how to. Right.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
I think there's like a happy medium with it too,
you know, where it's like, take some of the harshness
and the softness and mix it together so that way
the kids want to want to improve the coachure and
Simon Cowell or you know, whoever it is.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
I'm just thinking. So if that was a two thousand
and three, then the only outside criticism you would have
had would have been like fans forums or chat rooms
like there would have been no social media then, was there.
Do you think the stage that you were out in
your life where you've alluded to that you well, you
were still confused about your sexuality. Would you have rather
(28:52):
went through that experience of being on that show back
then without the intrusion of social media or do you
think it would have been easier to do it now
with us when there's such an influx of opinion on
things due to social media. I think it was more
difficult then to think it'd be more difficult.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
No, well, I mean it's different. It was more difficult
then simply because the culture had not caught up to
where we are today. I mean, I don't know. Yeah,
we didn't have social media, right, we had fan forums
and message boards and that kind of thing, but no Twitter,
no Facebook, and under that, but the culture and society
had not quite was not okay with it. I mean,
(29:33):
we had politicians running on very well that you still do,
but but we had politicians running for office on very
homophobic platforms back then.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
And the mood of the country was not one that
was comfortable with it. It was it was still very
it was still very taboos. So to that degree, i'd
I would have rather done it now, right, it would
have been easier. But but again, you know, I can't
regret anything, I mean anything that I had, anything had
(30:05):
gone differently. I mean, I've got a kid now. I
never would have had a kid had it not been
for confiding in the in the friend who I had
the child with about being gay before I did told
many other people. I mean, every it's like sliding doors, right,
if you do anything different, you won't be where you
are today. So I don't regret anything, but certainly I
(30:27):
will say this, I'm certainly very happy, very glad that
I believe I was the last person who ended up
on the cover of a magazine because they came out
of the closet after I came out, everyone was able
to sort of kind of mention it on Instagram or
(30:49):
whatever and let it kind of fly under the radar,
and it wasn't a big story. So I'm I'm glad
that it doesn't affect people in such a you know,
splashy impactful way.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Right, because I mean, if you think about too. Allen
DeGeneres came out in ninety seven, so that isn't that
long ago, you know, And so to your point too,
I mean it's it shouldn't be I'm glad you got
to tell your story, obviously, but it shouldn't be this
like cover, like you're this anomaly, you know, right.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
I mean Lance Bass came out I think two years.
I think he came out in six and I was
in eight and st Interestingly enough, all the other people
who you think about who are out in the public
eye now, most of them came out afterwards. I mean
even Neil Patrick Harris didn't come out till after me,
and Ricky Martin and Anderson Cooper and all these folks,
(31:40):
they were several years after we did. So the society
made it more more acceptable, made it easier for people,
and you know, I'm glad that has happened. I'm glad
that young people and old people who are coming out
to don't have to deal with it in the same way.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Yeah, to close up, what is your favorite part about parenthood?
Speaker 3 (32:05):
Well, I've got a sixteen year old now, so it's
it's a little less than he used to.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
He's got it. Well, we've got we've got a seventeen
year old, so so you get it. Well, he gets
it more. I have a lovely step child, step son
and so but yees, so we've got to get it
sixteen month old, a six nine and then seventeen.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
Well, I think it's also the you know, the teenage
boy and dad start. You know, he wants his independence now,
which obviously I want to give him. I'm sure you're
dealing with the same thing you want to give him.
But you know you ain't an adult, dammit, And you
don't get to make all your decisions on your own.
And know you don't get to drive around this afternoon
(32:46):
after school when there's a tornado coming. You get your buttet,
you know what I mean, So that that becomes it
comes a fun challenge. There are a few little one
upsmanship going on, but it's it's more and more in
press and exciting now. I mean, obviously there was the cute,
cuddly times and the sweet funny stuff when they he
was three, four, five, seven, whatever. Now you know, I'm
(33:09):
seeing him turn into sometimes very moody, but oftentimes incredibly
mature young man who has an idea of what he
wants to do with his life after school. I see
a lot of ways that he's handling things differently than
I would have, which is sort of impressive to me.
(33:31):
I'm getting to watch this adult start to become an adult,
and that is exciting to see. It makes me a
little sad because I see pictures of him on my
screensaver when he was young, and I'm like, Oh, where's
that kid. But it's nice to have to have been
a part of this young man becoming an independent person.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Now that's crazy. What's that start? Is at like eighty
percent of the time that you spend with your kids
as before the age of ten.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Yeah, it's the most depressing style. I can't even like,
is it truly?
Speaker 3 (34:05):
Really?
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Yeah, it's so sad. We are we are we in love?
Speaker 3 (34:09):
Clay, Oh God, I don't have. I don't have. I'm
too stubborn to be willing to change myself for anybody.
I wasn't willing to do that, right, But I was not.
I was more than happy and willing to change myself
fifteen years ago for someone. I was, Oh, whatever I
need to be, And now I just I don't want
(34:30):
it that bad. So when the right person comes along,
if I happen to meet them, because I've left the
house for the first time in a month, then I'll
then it'll work out beautifully because I'll be myself. But
I'm not looking for it, and like I said, I
don't leave the house enough for it to fall in
my lap. So I'm perfectly happy living my life at
(34:50):
this age the way I want to and not.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Very younger than us. So you cannot do.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
That, Okay, I don't think that's possible, but I yes, Wait,
how old are you now? You tell me first told
you I'm forty.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
One, I'm forty four and I'm forty six, so I
was right, I'm older.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Yeah, well, but because I look so it's just because
I look so adorable and young, and because I still
thinks i'm twenty four from yes, and it's twenty two years.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
That's wild because I remember watching so that just yes,
aging the you had your Christmas album? Are you doing
any more music or what can listeners expect in this
twenty twenty five?
Speaker 3 (35:34):
You know, I left music for a long time to
do other things, have a kid be around for him,
do politics quite a bit, and I'm just now getting
to a point where I am starting to think, you
know what, I don't ever want to do politics again.
Screw all of them. So I'm going back to performing more.
I imagine I'll do some more music. I don't have
(35:55):
a specific plan for what that would be. Christmas has
always been sort of my favorite thing to sing at
and perform yep, so the Christmas Album was a way
to continue to do that and kind of add to
the other Christmas projects I've done. But I am starting
to get a little bit of an itch to do
some other stuff, so I imagine that'll happen before too long.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
I love that. Well, Clay, thank you for coming on.
We appreciate you just being open and authentic and letting
down the mask.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Dun dun dug.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Yes, yes, thank you.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
Thanks for thinking I was younger than you. I appreciate it.
I mean I really truly did.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
I thought when I used to watch, you know, watch
in high school, you were or sways and two. No,
that was I just graduated.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
But yeah, we we were old contestants every for Like
I said, everything about season two was weird. We were old.
All of us were twenty three and twenty four. Ruben
kim Lock, myself, we were all twenty four, and after
us they all were eighteen. So yeah, we were We're
the grandparents of the show. I don't even think there's
there's I mean, Kelly and Justin were Kelly's only forty two,
(36:59):
I think now still so. Ruben and I literally still
are the oldest Idol contestants. We are the grandpa's but.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Young at heart. Yes, there you are all right? Well, Clay,
thank you, and I hope you survived the strong winds.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Yes, I think we might make it. I appreciate it.
Host
Jana Kramer
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