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October 18, 2021 46 mins

It’s the girl’s night you didn’t know you needed when Jana hangs out with the iconic Tori Spelling!

Jana and Tori dive deep into EVERYTHING from relationships to breast implants to the Kardashians.

And, we learn how to not “sweat the small stuff” from author Kristine Carlson. She shares her life changing advice on how to live open and freely after devastating heartbreak.

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I Heart Radio Podcast. Okay,
I'm so excited because I have the Tory spelling on
UM wind Down today, my amazing beautiful co host, UM,
thank you so much for coming on. Oh my gosh.
Of course we're finally like in person. I know, it's
nice to like a long time in the coming. I know,

I was like, I'm hugging dot and making making what
I thought you liked me for me. I do like you,
but I also really loved Actually I watched it. I
didn't watch it then I watched because you're ten years
younger than me. No, no, no, but no, I just
I love you. But I've I've come to like get
to know you because where we were like damn buddies. Yeah,

I just really enjoyed getting to know you because you
are You're You're just You're beautiful person like inside and
out and your Herdwroken mama, and I just like I
love your heart like you have an amazing heart. You
feel the same way about you. Um, we have an
amazing guess. I'm I got lots to chat with Tori about.
But um, we have our guest Christine Carlson in the
waiting room. So let's get her on and then me

and Tory will catch up after that, so you're not
gonna want to miss a second of it. But before that,
let's take a break. Hi. Hi, it's Janna and Tori. Hi.

You doing Hi? Um, don't sweat the small stuff. It's
going to be is on Lifetime? Did you get to
cast who you wanted to play you? No? No, no,
I had very little to do with any of that.
That's all production. I feel like I would like be like, no, no,
like this is who i'd want to play me, because

like what if like you were just like, wait, that's
not that's that's what if you didn't like her as
an actor? Oh I was thinking physically, but yes, that too.
You know, they asked me who my wish list was
and and so you know, I got to say who
my wish list was. But then was Michelle Pfiffer on there?
Because I feel like you guys kind of look alike, right,

I love Michelle Phiffer. I didn't think of her, but
I thought of Reese Witherspoon. I love Reese Witherspoon. And yeah,
but I'm so thrilled. Yeah, oh my gosh, yeah, she's amazing.
I'm so so happy about who they chose. Okay, So
I have not had the privilege to read Don't Sweat
the Small Stuff yet, but I feel like I need

to because I feel like I swept the small stuff along. Yeah, same,
but you read it. I read it, and I still
sweat the small stuff. But I love it. Like it's
that type of thing that you pass on to everyone.
You're like, you need to do this, but execution, and
like you take it in, but it's hard to execute things.
Why is that trying to? Well, I mean, don't speat

this small stuff is more about keeping life in perspective
than it is anything else. So I mean, we all
have so much small stuff that we're dealing with all
the time, and I think it's important to recognize what's
really small because it takes your life the energy away.
And then certainly, when something really big happens, you don't
swept the small stuff. And I think, um, that becomes

very obvious to most of us. And I'm sure that
when you've gone through a hard time, both of you,
you probably realized that that the little things that might
have bothered you the day before something big happens don't
even touch your radar for a long time. Have you
ever noticed that? Yeah? Actually, yeah, it's interesting. And I
also wonder too, you know, when it comes to this

small stuff, I mean, I or putting things in perspective,
I have a hard time, like when I know the perspective,
but then I just let it sit there, like I
know what I need to do, but I'm just like,
I'm gonna just keep going down this road thinking that
something's gonna change, and then it never changes. Like that's
that's my problem with my perspective. Does that make sense?
It does? And I think, Um, there was a time

in my life where I lived that way too, especially
when I was younger. And then suddenly, um, my husband
died and that pretty much changed everything. You know, I
was living things, I was thinking things that I should
be doing differently, Um, living a little more asleep to life, Um,
not as awake as as I have after his death.

And he passed tragically right from a very rare was
it what was it again? Pulmonary embolism? Thanks for not
thanks for not saying it and not knowing what that happens.
Sometimes people make the mistake of saying, oh, he died
from a heart attack. He didn't die from a heart attack,
It was a blood clot, a pulmonary embolism on a

on the descent of a flight into New York. So
it was very sudden. He was only forty five years
old and I was forty three. How did you get
up after that? It was tough. I mean, I, you know,
first of all, like I wasn't prepared at all, like
most people aren't for sudden death. I you know, didn't

have any I really didn't have it in my consciousness
that Richard would die suddenly. So I was completely shocked.
But I think that when you have kids, the blessing
of having children is that you do what you need
to do for them. And certainly, um, I knew that
I had to get up every day and be with

my kids and make sure they were okay because I
wasn't the only one in grief. They were in deep griefs.
So it was tough. But I think my life and
so many levels, I had done so much spiritual work,
and I had been a meditator my whole life, and
Richard and I had written and taught together, and so

the tenants of don't spent the small stuff in the
principles of happiness that are woven in that series really
helped me, gave me a lot of emotional tools to
work with. And that said, it was still really really
it was heartbreaking, and it was it was horrible, and
there were times where I didn't want to get up.
And I think that's normal. I think that no matter

how heroic you might feel that you can be, you know,
you you have to also make allowances for the days
where you can't be that and you have to be
in a state of wherever you are because it's a
healing process. You know, we we don't realize that when
we go through a trauma of any kind, you know,
we we could be a very stable person prior to

that trauma and then suddenly you're like a wounded animal.
And that's what we all are in trauma, you know,
whether it comes through the loss of your spouse, through death,
through divorce, through you know, you get news of your
health and suddenly one day you thought you were a
healthy person and the next day you found out you're not.
That's traumatic and we have to go through a process.

We have to allow for a process of healing to
how fun um and in order to gain the strength
that we need to really call on all the resilience
that we have, and you know, let's face it, like
like those kinds of issues are the issues that are
the really big stuff of life, and there are issues
that we're all going to face at one point or another,

for sure. Yeah, I feel like the process is the
interesting part because my friends are big how are you?
And I'm like, I gotta I always have to think
about it. I'm like, um, like today, I'm good, Like
ask me again tomorrow because like tomorrow because I'm going
through divor actually I'm divorced. It's not going through anymore.
I'm divorced, and so like every day is like a

different kind of like am I good today? Because and
then I told my therapist. I was like, man, I
had a real rough weekend last week and I was
so down on myself, and she was just like, you're
gonna have those moments again, and you're gonna have really
great moments and then you're gonna have really bad moments.
And I'm like, well, but I just want the good
moments and she's like that's not how healing and even works,

Like you're going to have the hamster wheel and I'm like,
that's that part. It's like, okay, can I just like
wheel it really fast, like get to the get to
the good. That's great that you're able to even take
a pause to think about it, because I feel like
naturally our instinct is when someone says how are you?
Oh good? Great, and then you know, like why did
I say that I'm not? And did you I mean,

either of you ever feel guilty saying like, oh, I
don't know what bad other persons going through, but I
am individually dealing with my own grief and loss, and
I feel bad putting it on them and saying like, oh,
I'm not good because for me, I'm always like, well,
I don't know what they're going through, so I don't
want to unload my stuff on them. But it's important
to be able to speak your truth to get it out.

And I think your friends want you to write do
you know what I mean? Like like they want to
know Like like for me, I'm like I hate it
when Catherine goes I'm fine. I go, I know you're
not right, yes, And it makes me like I get
annoyed with her and she knows that because I'm like
when I ask a out you know, her and her husband.
I know she doesn't want to talk about it, but
I'm also like, talk to me. I'm your best friend,
like I love you, you know, and I'm and I'm

like and also because selfishly, I'm going to be crying
on your lap in about five minutes, so like, let
me help you. You know. Yeah, I love that too,
when you you know, pause and you know you're not
an automatic pilot and pretending you know the everything is
all right when it's not. I I do agree with

both of you, and I think that's beautiful that you
do that, Jana, that you you stop and ask yourself.
I mean, that's at the really core of mindfulness is
to really take that pause and ask yourself how am
I feeling and then put your attention there. You know.
It's not to deny your feelings or to become like
you know, I I've learned over the years about just

how dangerous being like overly positive can be, you know,
because it's like honoring of what is truly in your heart.
And when we don't honor what we're feeling, then those
feelings tend to fester and become something else. And that's
I think what we don't want is we want those
feelings to have a way out. And I always like

to think of depression as um the opposite of expression.
So expression is getting it out and depression is holding
it in. Yeah. I think it's something too to not
judge your when you because I judge when I'm like
weak yourself. Yeah, And I think that's normal too. I

think a lot of people do that. I think we're
we tend to be very hard critics on ourselves. Yeah.
I had someone say to me like, Okay, it's been
six months, like get over it, and I'm like, it's not,
just get over it. And then but then I like judge.
I'm like, maybe I should be over it, but I'm
like no, because I still have feelings and I still
have emotions, and I think people are just they I

don't know, those people might just not be as empathetic
or have I mean, some part of you should never
be over it because it's a part of your life,
your journey and and your love. You made beautiful babies.
Are you remarried, No, Okay, are you back out in
a scene? Do you have a boyfriend? Yeah, I mean
it's been fifteen years. I've had many boyfriends. My love

life hasn't been boring. I'll just say that, Christine, are
you in bumble currently? Currently, I'm not a bumble. But
I did podcast about online dating for a while just
as an experiment. It was it was fascinating to me,
So I really like, I kind of. I mean, I've
had a lot of friends meet their person online and
on bumble, but my luck, um, whenever I'm on it

doesn't it doesn't seem to be really great. So I
don't know. I've always dated men that kind of come
through connections, um or I've met them organically. Do you
want to get married again? I don't think so. Yeah,
I was. I was having that conversation your girls. You
girls are a lot younger than I am, so I'm
you know, I'm like, I'm fifty eight now, so I'm

I'm sort of past the need of necessarily getting married.
And now that said, I mean, I if I found
the right man and I have a very high bar,
you know, to partner with, and and I felt like
he was really going to be a great partner for me,
I would of course do that and be open to that.
But I actually think I might have some commitment issues

after Richard, you know, in which in which sense just
that I just don't, you know, I just don't have
that necessary need to feel like I want to be
in a committed, committed relationship long long term. Now the
guy that I'm dating right now doesn't know that, So
I hope he doesn't listen to I'm sure he's not
a fan of wine now might Yeah, I gotta be

careful what I say if we're gonna be recorded. Trust
by the way, I heard that you said that. No.
It's funny though, because I was having I went out
on this date and I was, um, I I asked,
I was like, you know, would you because he had
been married before and he's older, and I was like,
would you want to be married again? And He's like,

I don't know. And a part of me was kind
of like because I'm like, I I like, I know,
I've been married so many freaking times, but like, I
love marriage, and I just I want my kids to
see what like a healthy marriage looks like. And it's
just so important to me, you know, And I would,
but also, like my mom, it took her. She was
she was single for twenty years and then she met

and she got married at fifty five. Um. Yeah, and
so it's like, but I totally hear what you're saying,
because there is that part, like you have lived so
much of your life now where you're like you're good,
like you don't need to have like this. I don't know. Well,
I mean it's it's like I'm not lacking. My My
life is very full and fulfilling, and I'm not I'm

not looking toward a relationship to fill me. Um. I
think that if I found somebody that was as whole
as I am and as complete that I found exciting
to be with and he checked all my boxes, you know,
I have a really high bar. My husband was amazing.
He was the love of my life and we had
a we had an amazing marriage. So and it was

a twenty five year relationship. So it's you know that
in a lot of ways, I feel like I have
fulfilled that part of my destiny and you know, and
I still feel like I'm very much with him, although
I know that if the tables were turned, I would
want him to find somebody and be with somebody, so
I know he wouldn't. He wants the same thing for me.

But I just think I have a really high bar
and I and I think that's okay, and that's good,
and you know, that's that's fine. Um, it doesn't mean
I want meet that person. I'm totally open, but I'm
certainly not desperate. So do you believe you can have
multiple soul made a different form? I do? I do. I.
I do believe that we have multiple soulmates, both male

and female, and our friends are often our soulmates. And
you know, we have so many sisters and so many
brothers and so many lovers. And yeah, for sure, do
I feel like there's perhaps maybe a couple of people
in the world that are the most special people that
are you know, you're really super compatible with that, you

share the same values that you are. You know, you
keep that connection alive, you know, in the same way. Um,
I think that's probably true that we have a couple
of people like that. And but you know, and I
think a lot of people are still searching for their
one person like that. And so I feel like, you know,
I had that person, and if I met another one

would be great, but I'm not. I'm not actively searching
or meeting of it. And I felt a little differently
when I was in my forties. You know, my my
sexual desires have changed a little bit. Not that I
don't enjoy sex. I love sucks, but I'm not as
horny as I was when I tell me that as sister. Yeah, yeah,

it's a totally different thing. When you're in your forties.
That's like the I think that's the worst time in
your life to lose your husband. I will say this,
which is kind of funny, like it's around the same
this topic where you because I'm gonna be thirty eight,
and you know, there have been, you know, some men
that have wanted to hang and I'm like, in my twenties,

I have been like, yeah, come over, But now I'm like,
my vibrator is going to do just fine. And my
vibrator goes in a drawer and I don't want to
be like you can give me, please leave because I
like being alone now. So I'm like like like that,
I feel like that's an older thirties, like into your forties.
Really I'm good. Things I don't need, like my little
pink bunny is fine. I feel like the bunnies don't

move fast enough. Sorry, just going back to something that
you did say that I thought it was interesting is

you know, the bar was set high, and I feel
like I have to be careful because I want it
so bad that I don't rush into something because I
wanted so bad. That's something I feel like I've always done,
like I've rushed into like oh my god, he's my
soul mate and this is the one. And then I'm like, wait,
I would not have if I really looked, I would
have seen all these red flags and then I wouldn't
have stayed. But I like, I don't see them. I

have got these like blinders. I don't know if you
saw this one emoji thing where it was like the
therapist said, didn't you see the red flags and the
little monkeys? Like I thought it was a carnival, Like
that's like I lived my life. I'm just like, oh,
I thought it was just like whoa, I don't know.
It's hard fun, but there's something so pure and beautiful

to that, you know, like I don't want you to
ever lose that, like the red flag suck, but like
you got to follow your heart to some extent to
you do you guys are like how do you know? I? Yeah,
I believe that. I don't think that there's any lost relationship.
You know, we learned so much about ourselves through the

reflection of the person that we're with. And so whoever
you decide to spend time with, you're going to learn
something about yourself, you know, through that that person, And
they're going to learn about themselves too, because I feel
like we're all mirrors of one another, and we have
our own holographic universe. And you know, right now, you
too are in my holographic universe through Zoo, you know.

And and who knew I'd be sitting in Heather Lockler's
home right now and talking to you right now in
her house right now. Yeah, we're gonna be on Good
Morning America tomorrow. So I came over and I'm spend
the night with her. Will you give her my love?
I've known forever. I know she's the best, She's the sweetest,
such a kind person, is so talented. Sweet love that okay,

So Heartbroken Open is a book you have out right
now on Amazon. What can like? What can I Tori
readers listeners expect in that book? Well, I guarantee if
you pick it up and you start to read it,
you probably won't put it down. It's a definite page
Turner and it's UM. I only say that because that's
what people tell me. So UM. I know actually don't

read much of my own books after I write them,
you know, I don't go back and read them. But UM,
but it's a very raw, a little bit on the
untamed category, I think, you know, like um with like
I haven't read Glenn and Doyle's book, but my daughter's
read some of it to me, and I think that
it's a little bit like that, where it's my story,

but it's very raw and it's very deep, but it
also has a lot of after in it. Um. You
really talk about, UM, kind of my journey of how
I discovered myself through my loss and how it's almost
like going through that. It was such a deep awakening

for me. And I wasn't a person that I ever
really thought I was asleep, you know, but I really
woke up to life in such a very new and
powerful way through loss and UM, and that's why I
was really compelled to write the book. But it's also
just very raw and vulnerable and and people love it.
It's like it's like being in somebody's head, in somebody's

world with them. What did you learn most about yourself
from from the loss. Oh my gosh, so so much.
I mean, it's very it's pretty deep, like where I
learned about my ego and how my ego had been
really sneaky and how it had been really tied up
and being Richard's wife. And I always say, when you

always know when you're in a true crisis because you're
you're in an identity crisis. So whatever kind of laws
you go through, when it rips apart your identity and
it puts you a just ground zero where you just
don't know who you are, that's actually really amazing place
to be because when you don't know who you are,

your egos not in charge, that's when you are who
you are. And it's a kind of interesting feeling. Like
you remember, I just remember sitting sometimes and I was
so present and I was sitting and I'd be like, Wow,
this is what it feels like to be me. Mhm,
you know. And I mean because I wasn't all caught

up in holding the perfect life, having the perfect life,
all the stuff that we as women do to make
sure everyone in our households has the perfect life, you know,
for the first time, I wasn't caught up In that
I was my life had shattered. And and in that shattering,
I started to realize, Wow, I could see it all,

Like I could see what a gift this was in
some level, and I hated it. I wanted my husband back,
like I loved him. I love him still. I wanted
him back. But I thought, Jess, if he has to die,
I'm going to get something out of this, you know,
like this is gonna be like big for my growth.
It has to be. And and so I was completely

open to seeing life totally different. And I did. And
that's what the book is about, is just waking up,
you know, waking up to who you really are. I
love that because I feel like I'm trying to figure
that out too, like who am I? And like in
those moments of just being alone and not having any

distractions and sitting there, it's it's a painful, but it's
also I feel like it's a beautiful process too. And
I'm I'm kind of finding the bat I'm trying to
find the balance in between the two. Yeah. And I
think when you when you really get comfortable with who
you are, you know, when you're without a partner or
you know, a man in your life. Then you know,

you get that's where real confidence comes from. That's where
true confidence comes from. Confidence doesn't have anything to do
with all the outside things that we make it have
to do with it's it's a true feeling of of
knowing and resonating with your inner sense of your inner
identity and who you are from the inside. And I've

just always put my worth like from a man, like
like whatever a man said to me or whatever, like
how he treated me, I'm like, oh, that's what I deserve,
that's my worth and like and then I try and
like so that's why it's like I'm really truly trying
to force myself to just like be you know, mindful
and alone and try and figure me out because I'm
like I can't. My friends are always like you always

go left. You gotta start growing right, and like right
is you? Right is finding you and hopefully on that
path as well, we're you know, you'll be confident enough
to choose not the left path again. You know. Yeah,
I have to choose yourself first. Um, And and we
are not taught that as women were taught to take
care of everyone else and choose ourselves last. And that

doesn't work very well, you know. And I also think
that when we don't know ourselves and we that's when
we're looking for somebody else to fulfill that sense of
who we are. Like just what you said, and that's
all very common and you know you just you. I
think when we look at our patterns, that's very very helpful.
You know, what is your pattern in relationship? And then

the idea of not repeating the pattern is becomes kind
of the goal is to look at how can I
not repeat the same thing over? What could I do
differently now? And I think life is so much about
an inquiry, and the journey of finding out who you
are is about the questions you ask yourself. We all
have the answers. I mean, we all do. We just

have to ask the right questions, and sometimes we ask
the wrong questions. So I feel like I asked the
right questions and I get the wrong answers. But I'm
still like, well, they'll get the right answer, Like they'll
eventually come with the right answer that I want the answer.
Have you ever thought you've like broken the pattern? And
this doesn't always have to be a love relationship. It
can be a friendship, It could be a work relationship.

I've broken that pattern, and then all of a sudden
you get into it and you're like, oh gosh, it's
just another form of my pattern. It just wasn't obvious
at first. I thought for sure I had it right
with this last marriage. Like I was like, oh, like
we're on the same bait, Like it's like totally different.
Then I'm like, nope, just a disguise. It stealth better.
That's almos Like damn it, Like I hate that. Um okay,

so everyone watch Don't Sweat the Small Stuff. Um. It's
the Christine Carlson story on Lifetime and then by her
book Heartbroken Open. It's a page turner, and thank you
for Um I'm I'm going to buy it because I
I need to. I need to be on that journey
that you're on. So thanks for helping guide the way.

Oh my gosh, it's been a pleasure, ladies. Thank you
so much for having you. You have such a beautiful energy.
I know we're on zoom, but it's just like kidding
is like, it's so great. Thank you, Thank you for
all you do for everyone out there. Thank you and
thank you for all all you do. What a wonderful
conversation we had today. Thank you so much. All right, thanks,

happy good morning America too. Okay, I will Oh my god,
I love her. You know what broke my heart in
that though? I mean it was an amazing interview. She's incredible,
but like I felt a little piece of, like well,

a sadness, like because she loved her husband so much,
and I'm like, and but then I felt a little
tinge of like I want to feel that, Like what's
that like, you know, like just like being so madly
like uh and then losing that. I'm like, what, Like
that's just like people don't get that and then you
lose it, like how I would just be devastated. I

wonder what it was like though before she lost him,
Like if she appreciated that every day I was. It's
hard when someone's had such grief to know what's appropriate
to ask what's not. I know she talks about this
all the time, but just you know, I feel like
we get in relationships, we get comfortable, and we forgot,
we forget to say like I appreciate you or this

is what I love and I don't know, and it's hard.
She was married to say twenty years. No, I think
she's like total. Yeah, so that's a long time. That is.
That's such a good point though, and sometimes you feel
like the magic is going in and out. And of course,
like when he was gone, she was like that was everything.
But yeah, I would love to know. Oh man, By

the way, Tori gave me this like is it burning?
I have Like I think I put too much on
because I was like I don't really feel it, and
then I just kept rolling. It's like this like cryoh
what is it? Cryoderm it's a painstick. It's by the way, no,
it's like mental. Anyone that knows me knows it's the
story of my life. Um yeah, I like literally put

it on my temples, my neck like I've got like Antarctica,
like on the back of my neck. It's so cold. Yeah.
The worst is in past experiences I've been using it
forever that you put it on forget and then someone
goes into a nuzzle you or kiss you and they're like,
my eyes, oh god, if you ever have you ever
got how the pens and then touched your eyes. I

thought you were going to say something else well, but
also like and then also touched your vagina because let
me tell you what. I thought you were going to
say something else somebody else's I don't know. And that's
where my mind went hamsy. I don't know why, sorry,
but yes it hurts. Yeah, And then I'm googling, like

how do you like get it's like poor milk and
pouring milk on my vagina, like it's like convigorating. That's
good for East confections too, by the way, milk Yeah? Wait,
am I wrong? Day? Make that up? Easton? Can you
please google? What's good for East? Infections? Are bladder infections?
Why is why is this your computer? Oh? Man? I

love that you. I saw a article you did about
you were in a verbally abusive relationship. I was so
I felt Okay, here's the hard part. I did a
post for Luke Perry. It was his birthday, no thing,
and I still want people tell me they're sorry. I'm like,

I get really guilty, like no, not me, sorry for
his family, like but also it's we're talking like self worth.
It's the same thing, like even things like that, I'm like, no, no, um,
but yeah, when he passed away, I felt this thing
like is it shaming or do I feel guilty? Like
being I didn't want to bring attention to me. It
was about him, so I didn't post stuff, and you know,

he's been gone for a while now, and it just
I felt the need to put it out there. I
don't know that was my truth, and I never said it,
and I was just like I'm missing him today and
his energy, and I just wanted to put it there.
And then I felt bad afterwards because I saw like
some castmates just had like a short thing and I
was like, and I saw like I got picked up everywhere,
and I was like, ah, that's not what I meant. Like,

I just wanted to tell everyone how great he was
to me and he was family to me, and that
was your you know, right, because sometimes when we post stuff,
it's for us, even the millions of people are saying it. Yeah,
because I had posted there's one thing that was for
my song. But I was like, I talked about being
an abusive relationship to your song by the way, thank you,
but your sweep. But then my head out and I'm like,

I didn't do this to get picked up. I didn't
do my dad. And then I get you know, my
X was upset with me, like that wasn't about you.
It was. It was about my like experiences with like relationships,
and like it's such like a when you when you
want to post something because it's on your heart, you're
not looking for the for us weekly to pick it up.
You're looking it's because it's that's he meant something to

you and he was family to you. And yeah, and
I waited a while, and you know, people would always
have the hashtag, you know, our R. I p like
rest in peace, and I was like, I can't never
do that. And then it's been a while and I'm
just like I'm feeling it. But yes, I was in
a verbally abusive relationship when I was nineteen, and that

was It's interesting because as hard as it is on you,
you don't know when you're young that it's so hard
on everyone else. And yeah, Luke hated him and was
very protective. And at my parents Christmas Eve party one year,
he was there and he was just like I saw
this ex boyfriend and they got into it and he

tried to punch him and like Je's Hebbestly had to
pull him off. It was like it was one of
those epic stories. You're like, WHOA looking back, like that's crazy,
but um. Yeah, after that, Luke and I worked together
every day but didn't talk for a while because I
was I was nineteen, and I was just like mad.
I was mad at him. I was mad at him

because I was like, sometimes when friends stick up for you,
you feel like, well, but then you go home and
I go home with this person and I have to
take them taking what they experienced with you regarding me
out on me. Does that make sense? Totally does? So? Yeah,
I had to go home with like, oh, so your
friend did that at your parents house and I was nineteen,

so I was mad at him instead of realizing and hindsight,
it was like this guy loved me and he was
like I don't care, like I'm gonna go to bat
for her, and he was a great friend. You know
what's interesting about that is um and that my abuser
same age. It was nineteen and I just moved out
to l A and even like the relationships since then

that have been verbally or physically abusive. When I eventually
tell my friends, they're like, that's not normal, and I'm like,
it's not And that's like that reaction, like it's not
like the fact that we think that's normal in that moment.
And sometimes I'm like, well, I mean I was kind
of like bitchy or like and then I'm like making
excuses for the person that doesn't deserve it, like all

of a sudden, Yeah, you become defensive on their behalf
when they did it to you all the Yeah, it's
just so interesting and it's so sad because I'm like
if if and then I put myself and remember my
friends too, they're like, you got to start putting yourself
and like if your daughter was in the situation, how
would you react? And then I'm like, oh, come on,
don't don't bring my daughter into this. They're like no,
I'm serious, Like what would you say to her? And

I would say that's not right, like he should never
say that. You should never put you no matter what.
And it's like, but yet I can't tell myself that.
You can't tell yourself that. It's such an interesting it's
it's sad. I'm glad you said that because people I
always see people talk about like don't behave in life?
How you you know, if you don't want your kids
behaving that way, like be the example, many different things,

and it's like it's not always that easy to do, like,
of course we can be strong moms and tell our
daughters this is what I hope you do. But they're
going to make their own decisions and they're gonna make
mistakes like like we did, and I don't know, and
it's not easy to change, Like it's a behavior that
it's like, great, I don't want my daughter to be
treated like this when she's older. But I'm still enduring

it because it's it's what we think we deserve, it's
what we think are worth is and like because it
was ingrained in us at a young age and then
we you know, that's just it's and it's so not
true nor right, and yeah, that's why I'm like, I
love kind of what she said with Christine was she
was saying, like you finding yourself and choosing you going

on that journey where I'm like, God, I hope I
go right, because go on the other way it sucks.
I've never chosen me in any circumstance of life. When
it's hard now to choose you when you have got
five kids and you know, like your empire and it's
it's it's it's hard, but it's like at the end
of the day, Like when I go back to my kids, Okay,

if if choosing me is going to be the best
version for my kids, So it is not selfish for
us to choose us even though we go to well
you're like oh no, no, no, like no, no, I'm good.
I'm good when you're like starving, you know. I mean
I wouldn't be mad at that for myself. But yeah,
I'm still trying to lose the babyweight. And but hey,

look it, you look incredible. It's a process that's a
hard one to like. It's it's really difficult. Like I
say to people all the time, like, oh, I'm you know,
still working on losing way eight and they're like, but
you look great, and it's but the thing is, and
I'm not like taking anything about what you just said,
but like when you're used to your body a certain

way your whole life, and then it does radically change
and people and it's a hard thing to say because
then people are like, oh, I wish my body looked
like that after five are always all individual and my
body is different after five. And you know, isn't an
honor that I created them and gave birth to them. Yes,
I still want my body back. That's why people would

give me, give me crap about like my boob job
or whatever. I'm like, you know what, like, that's what
I want to do because I want my body to
look the way that I want my body to look like,
and like it they weren't. Yeah, I'm like it's and
then the people are like, oh, but you look great.
They look great before, and I'm like, cool, but I
need advice on that. By the way, minor, because they're
expired and recalled. Oh, I mean, hey, what do you

want them? Do you want new? Okay? I mean I
loved I mean, I know you're like Beverly Hills, so
it's you could have any amazing doctor. But doctor Younger
in Nashville, Paula A. Duel went to him. Really, He's
like he's incredible, He's amazing. I love him, and he
got me. He was like, you know, I was like,
I don't want too big. I want them to look natural.

But like I think, when I redo them, I my god,
did it there because they're fun. See. No one told
me when I got mine done that in ten years
you would have to get them redone. Well, they they're
ones now. They say, like, I mean always talk to
your doctor. Don't listen to wine down because I'm not
a king doctor. Sorry Eastern um. But like he was like,
you know, fifteen, maybe twenty. Okay, I'm a twenty though,

and I don't think when I got mine put in
like no, they had the ones no natral us, natral
and plants and they're really good. Um. But yeah, I
mean again, at the end of the day, like I
get it. I still people like will be oh, look,
I'm like, well, i'd like like to like I'll never
always have a little piece of belly, but people are like, oh,
my friends like, don't complain about that, Like, but again,

it's my body. I know what it looks like. I
would know what I wanted to look like, and we
can just be like, well, I still love you. I
think you're amazing. See. I need to get to that
point where I'm okay saying like, okay, that's your opinion.
But I'm not there yet. Like I'm still like when
people say things, I'm like, oh, I'm sorry, where does
it sories? Like my lifeline, where does that come from?

You think, like does childhood stuff or just like not
feeling like you I think childhood two things childhood and
my parents. I never saw them argue, um, which I
think is a problem too. I do too, because every
time you agree to an argument, then it's like, oh
my god, we must be over and it's done and
it's doomed for days. Right, And they loved each other,

but you know, growing up, you would realize like that
was passive aggressive, Like you would hear it and I
would be like, I wish they would just argue, or
like they would just like silent, and then like and
as I got older, I would ask my mom like,
did you guys have an argument behind closed doors? She's
like no, And I'm like that probably wasn't good for
you guys, and I don't want to do that. But
I grew up being very passive aggressive. And I think

just being Aaron Spelling's daughter and a producer, people already assumed,
like before I entered a room, like she's going to
be a bit, like she's going to be entitled so
and I mean to this day, I just worked on
something recently and they were like, you're so lovely, like
we thought. I was like, why wouldn't I be well,
because you're Aaron Spelling's daughter, because you're on nine two.

I was like, no, but I carry it with me.
I'm harder myself. So because of that, I like dim
my light to please everybody because God forbid, they think
I'm like not nice, but I am nice, so that
should be enough. But I go above and beyond at
the detriment of myself. That's a lot of pressure too,

and like a lot of energy to just to have
to put on like it is you You're so sweet,
like I know that, but like to even have to
put on like it's like God, like can I just
like why do I have to feel like I have
to prove them and I this person when I am
a nice person, right, But I'm still doing it. I
still feel the need to do and it's exhausting. Yeah,
Like five kids is nothing like the pressure I put

on myself is worse. So what do we do to? Like,
I don't know what do we do? We do? I
don't know, we'll do this together, I don't know. Just
butter three and three out that's what I usually do.
Um Okay, now is the time two pimp everything that

the Tori spelling is doing. Nano two and oh my gosh,
oh my gosh, did you say nine O two and
I want to do that. Um, it's funny podcasts that
you guys do. It's fun. It's crazy. Um, because we've
never watched the show back. I think I watched more

than Jen has because the dv AR would pull up
like nine O two one oh, because it has my
name in there, so anything I do, and then it'd
be like countless episodes of nine O two and oh.
So I think I stopped watching when like one of
my kids they're older now, the older ones were like,
who's that and they would be like, there's Jenny, there's Iron,
Where's where are you? And I'm like, I'm right there.

When I tell this story, people are like, oh, when
you had like dark hair, I was like, nope, I
was blond. They still didn't know it was me. But
I felt bad that I've always wanted you and Brian
Auston Green to like secretly to be married. No, I
probably on some secret level wanted it too, Like I
don't know I was. I'm always like they're going to
get back together, and I'm like it's like it's I
don't know, It's like it's like a it's my Courtney

and um Scott, Like I I not Courtney. Um yeah,
Courtney and Scott, like I still want them to get
back together. I'm the same way, And I feel ashamed
saying that. Why because he was terrible. Oh my god,
you're gonna get me all riled up because he's can
you really terrible to her? But yet I love them
because I want him to change and I wanted to

be good. I think he has. I really truly am
the biggest Courtney and Scott advocate. Um meet, wait, like
I am too, And I'm always just like, can you
all just please? Like I just like I see she
still loves him. He's still obsessed with her, Like you
can just see it. You think she still is in
love with him. I don't know what. I just wish

the way she acts now she had done with Scott
because I feel like she I mean, I know he
was a whole lot of horrible to her, but she
was very She played a part. Two. We all play
a part in every book. This is all from seeing
it on TVs, like what actually happened, but like, yeah,
big advocate for them, big advocate for you and Brian

Austin Green. Okay, well we'll still see it out into
either of those ever work out at third What is
it they niverse? Ethernet? I don't know. Is that a
cool fancy way of saying the Internet? I know it
was smart for me. Universe Oh you mean Internet? Oh
I mean Internet. I mean like the universe and the

ether ether ether, that's it. So Ethernet is Internet, guys.
This is when. Yeah, okay, okay, so go what are
we What are we doing? What are we working on?
The podcast? Letting you that under the rag? No? Um? Okay?
So no two one, OMG. I have a show on
MTV called Messiness. Um. We just filmed our second season

and it's really fun because I get to be no
like I've always been toned down like I have. I
have like for everyone loves Donna, Donna is me. That
was like me to a core. But I also have
like a really like dirty sense of humor and I

t am I like I talked too much about up
and yeah there's that side. So but you know, in
the public eye, like you're always told to not do that,
like keep it this way. And I was just in
Malta for a month filming a show that I can't
about yet, but I'll be excited. Um okay, so when

Pete look at me, I'm gonna be too honest, like
so when people ask me, I literally I can't lie
to you. Like Malta was great, but from what I saw,
I made it look amazing on Instagram. I literally was
working like nineteen hour days. I saw my bed which
was super comfy at the Weston, and then I would
get picked up and taken to set, which was not

near the ocean. It was like Survivor. So then why
film Dusty? I don't know, you know what I mean, Like,
you know, they do a lot of shows in Malta.
Interesting and um originally it was a UK show that's
being done for the US and and their partners, so

it's also simultaneously going to launch like the UK version
and the US version, and so the crew was all
from the UK because I actually didn't know where Malta is.
I didn't either. When I got offered it, I was like,
she wait, what's that. It's a country in Europe, so
it's its own little country it is. It's an island.
I honestly thought I was in Italy or like, it's

on the coast, its own. You can take like an
hour ferry from Malta and get to sicily beautiful. I
heard it was a friend went with me and she
didn't have to work, so she got to go and
she said it was incredible. But yeah, I never even
got to take my toes in the sea. What. Yeah,
that's beautiful. Look at look at she missed? So from

my hotel room, I could see that view. Yeah, I
heard the water was really warm, so I'll have to
go back. So that's a hard working MoMA right there.
You know, she doesn't even spend extra time to go
dip her toes in the water because she has to
get back home to her baby's go to the MLFI
coast for three days, okay right afterwards? Yeah I want

to do that, You're like, well, actually I did. I
actually did, which was exhausting because because I was so tired,
I just wanted to like sit by pool or a beach.
But we were like exciting and shopping and eating and yeah,
I love it. Well, thank you for being my co
host today. Can we do a part two like later

down the road? Yeah, of course, any time I actually
want to come to Nashville, Um, please come. I it's
yeah in my dream to come for a long time.
All right, we'll wind down next. Thanks Toory Bye.
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