August 31, 2023 • 24 mins
Lisa Carmen Wang missed qualifying for the Olympics by a fraction of a point, but how she transformed that experience into finding her own voice!
Lisa is a financial expert and has some incredible advice on what to do with your money to build your wealth and change your life!
Plus, find out why women are better investors than men!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Wind Down with Janet Kramer and Imheart Radio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
This week's whine About at Thursday Therapy, We've got Lisa
Carmen Wang So. She's the founder and CEO of Bad
Bitch Empire, community investment platform building unapologetic worth and wealth
for women. She's also a four time USA National Champion
and Hall of Fame gymnast turns, serial entrepreneur, angel investor,
a venture capitalist, certified executive coach, and global speaker. She's
(00:28):
been named Forbes thirty Under thirty in Venture Capital, Entrepreneur
magazines one hundred Most Powerful Women Fast Company Executive Board.
She began her career at a fifteen billion dollar hedge fund.
Is a graduate of Yale University and is on a
lifelong mission to help women build unapologetic worth and wealth again.
(00:49):
Her book is coming out. It's called The Bad Bitch
Business Bible, which are commandments to break free of good
girl brainwashing and take charge of your body, boundaries and
bank account. Run Hello by girl, Lisa, So excited to
have you on. Was reading your bio and I'm just like,
damn like you are like literally the definition of a
(01:13):
bad bitch, like from being you know, insane gymnastics and
then building this empire, and you've got your book coming out,
the Bad Bitch Business Bible. I'm just like, I mean,
how old are you?
Speaker 3 (01:26):
By the way, I'm thirty four.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
I mean, wow, that makes you feel like we've done
We've a called with my life, Jesus.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
So how old were you, like your gymnastics years? So
how long? Like when did you stop doing gymnastics.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
When I was nineteen nineteen?
Speaker 5 (01:43):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
What was the stop? Was there a reason where you
were just like.
Speaker 5 (01:48):
So I was Olympic alternate for two thousand and eight,
and like I had been champion for a few years,
and at that point, like I got into Yale. And
also when your nineteen year like old.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
It's interesting when you say that, you know, nineteen stool,
because I was just reading about Simone Biles. I'm like,
she's twenty six years old.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Yeah, it's nice and.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
You know going back to the Olympics, like that's she's
she's also a bad bitch. That's insane. I've always wondered too,
as you said this, like being the alternate for the
Olympics was that kind of hard to go? I was
this close to being on the actual team.
Speaker 5 (02:27):
It was probably one of the hardest experiences that I
had in my life because it was zero point two
five tenths of a point that I missed it. And
it's like it's the covalent of a pinky toe. And
when you train for ten years for that dream, and
also my entire identity was I am a gymnast, and
(02:47):
so it's like when you're like, from the age of
nine to nineteen, I'm like, that's my dream and training
like eight nine hours a day by the end of
my career, and I had my coach, is, my parents,
the country like this whole pressure to qualify for it,
and then when I didn't make it, I was like,
(03:07):
it's just like utter shock and then you're like I
don't know what to do with my like who am I?
Speaker 3 (03:12):
And so I think that was.
Speaker 5 (03:13):
Really the moment where I like really discovered what I
call my inner bad bitch voice, because I realized that
my identity wasn't that of a gymnast, it was that
of a winner and a fighter. And so what I
ended up doing was I actually got into Yale like
right during that same period, and I told Yale that
(03:35):
I wasn't going to go for that year and I
bought a one way ticket to Russia to the Russian
Olympic Training Center, and like, so if you imagine Siberia
in the middle of winter, and that's what it was like,
nine hours a day of training with like the most crazy,
strict Russian coaches that you can imagine.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
And I was like, Okay, for nine months.
Speaker 5 (03:54):
I'm just going to train, travel, compete, and like be
the best gymnast I can possibly be, because like, winners
don't fuit when they're doing. And so I ended my
last competition a year later at the two thousand and
eight US National Championships, and I won every single gold
medal Athlete of the year, and I was like, peace, Okay,
now I'm out, Like this, this is how a winner
(04:14):
ends their career. So like, even though I didn't make
the Olympics, I kind of put a bow on it
and like ended that chapter of my life the way
I wanted to, and then eventually got inducted into the
Hall of Fame.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Hell yeah, that's amazing. Okay, So tell me take me
back to this whole.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Like good girl image thing that you used to like,
is that something that was like put on you from
your family?
Speaker 4 (04:35):
Was that like a religious thing or like, tell me
more about that.
Speaker 5 (04:39):
I think it's very common amongst like immigrant children, Asian girls,
especially Indian girls, And I think it has to do
with like this knowing that your family also made a
huge sacrifice to come to the country, and there's a
lot of guilt pressure on you to be successful and
to have that soccer if ice not be for nothing.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
So yeah, I always felt like.
Speaker 5 (05:04):
I had to get straight a's, I had to do
well in school. If I was going to do it,
I was going to do it exceptionally well. And I
also had that innate drive in me. I think there
was just like the perfectionism. And so when I think
about good girl brainwashing, it's just like all the societal
media messages that have trained women to be like obedient, polite,
(05:25):
perfect people, pleasing.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
To work hard to prove ourselves to.
Speaker 5 (05:30):
Other people, rather than like knowing innately that we are
enough and valuable. It's like the fact that we're more
afraid to take risks on ourselves, We're more afraid to
dream bigger because there's probably more messages that are like, oh.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Be careful, you know, be a good girl. It's okay.
And yeah, I feel like I had a lot of that.
Speaker 5 (05:50):
Just like internal training in me that was especially from gymnastics.
It's like literally a perfect ten. You know, it's like
be the perfect good girl, listen to your coaches. Where
the perfect leotard had the perfect body, like move the
perfect way, and so I kind of had like exponentially worse.
So by the time I left gymnastics and like went
(06:11):
into the real world, I was like, I don't know
what to do when I don't have a plan for
someone coaching me and telling me what perfect like perfection
and perfect ten is.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Do you think when you, I mean your parents were
they were they really hard on you? Or was that
just the expectation that you thought that they had for
you and on you or would they have been like,
you know, were they accepting of kind of like this
new path and like not making in the team. And
then you know, also you know, you going into your
(06:57):
own entrepreneur. I mean, now they've got to be like
and he's so proud, but like, do you think if
you were like, no, I just want to do this,
would they have would they have been okay with that?
Speaker 3 (07:07):
I think that's what they would have wanted.
Speaker 5 (07:09):
So the good girl path like I kept going down
the good girl path, like I got into the Ivy League,
and to this day that's still You go to the
richest family in Asia and their number one dream for
their child is to go to an IVY league, right,
so it's still very much the American dream.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
And then you.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
Then like the goal is become a lawyer, a doctor,
investment bank or consultant. So actually, I think they would
have been very happy had I just stayed at a
safe corporate job.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
So it was like the.
Speaker 5 (07:42):
Real move was me finally prioritizing how I felt, and
I was like, I don't feel happy, I don't feel
liberated sitting at this corporate job in finance, and like,
I don't think this is me. So I think I
really started to like on the path figuring out who
I actually was, like when I took that leap into entrepreneurship,
(08:03):
because for the first time really there was just like
no rules and I just had to figure out, like
what does good enough or like great look like for me.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
I just kind of chuckled to myself, thinking because I'm like, God,
my parents' only dream was like that I graduated high school.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
Like for like, it's a very different I know.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
I can't imagine like that pressure that you must feel,
and like you said, it's something that's you know, other
you know people feel, and I just that would that
would be hard to always live up to that like
expectation or to not feel like you're disappointing them. But now,
I mean again, you've got your new book coming out,
Bad Bitch Empire. And something happened the other day where
(08:46):
I was. I was at this charity event and I
was golfing, which I don't golf, but I was there
and pretending to golf and the people that I was
golfing with they were investment bankers, And to be truthful you,
I was like, so, you know, asking them all these
questions because I actually don't know, Like I have a
financial advisor and I just kind of trust that he's
(09:08):
putting it into things. And there's something about me where
I'm like, I have no knowledge, like actually, what is
you know, what should I be making sure that my
financial advisor is investing certain things in? But it was
not taught to me, nor did I know, nor is
it something that I truthfully have done their research to
look into. But because it just feels like, oh, the
(09:31):
man right, But I'm like, well, why are we why
are women not taking that control? And so when I
read that, you know you're helping empower women to like
have that wealth and investments, Like what is that first
step to? Because I truthfully I don't want to read
I don't want to read a boring investment book. I'd
like to read your book because your book excites me,
like knowing, Okay, maybe you're going to get some good
(09:52):
tips in there, but like, what are some are there
tips in there that help women to be better investors
with their money?
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (10:01):
Well I want to zoom out a little bit and
just first like think about the concept of money in
and of itself, because I think a lot of women
just feel like the moment you think finances and like money,
there's just some sort of anxiety or like aversion to it,
Like I don't really want to deal with that. Let
me just go spend it on these attitudes and the
(10:23):
avoidance and so like, I like to think a lot
about how, first of all, money is like it's just
it's a piece of paper, right. And the reason why
I have values is because society has basically been like
we have decided that when you exchange a piece of
paper that you will be able to get a coffee,
(10:44):
you know, handbag or whatever. And like if you just
break it down, you're like, Okay, this is literally just
a piece of paper, and it's about an exchange of value.
So if money is like an energetic exchange of value,
and like I think of the embodiment of feminine wealth.
So there's a lot of like what are women naturally
really good at? So our natural superpower intuition, right, we
(11:09):
feel we give life. And so I had this this
I was signing to this friend, my friend of mine.
We were like, okay, the mother nature is feminine, right,
Like our god given right is to like give life
to the next generation. And so if investing is literally
like taking something and like multiplying it and like giving
(11:33):
it life, so that's like we naturally already do that,
Like you take a seed and you like grow it,
and that's what investing is. And so women, if you
actually look at the data, women outperform men forty basis
points on average. And it's because men tend to trade
a lot, and they're like impulsively trading. Men are actually
(11:54):
more emotional like when it comes to the market. So
you're like, oh my god, I want to get in
that foma whatever. And over time, men actually make less
money than women. And so when we talk about you
and like Warren Buffett, a lot of times we say,
like Warren Buffett has a feminine investing style because he
looks long term. He was like, I'm going to do
my research. I'm going to be really careful once I
(12:15):
put it in its game. And that's how women tend
to invest, where like we don't want to be sitting
here on our computer day trading every single day and
like every single moment. You're like, I'm busy. I just
want to like do my research, feel good about it. Intuitively,
like I know this company like makes sense, put it
in and just like set it and forget it. And
that is actually what investing is. Like the best types
(12:35):
of investors are long term investors, and so that's the
first thing to just like even embrace the identity of
being an investor. It's like, if you spend money to
exchange value and you make good purchases, you are probably
a good investor. And also women women control eighty five
percent of all consumer spending, so it's like we do
(12:57):
make good purchases like we do make purchases good for
the environment, for ourselves, for our families, and so, like,
I think the mindset piece is really important. The second
thing is also understanding that like you should not have
your money in a savings account, because if you keep
your money in a savings account, you lose money every
day because the inflation rate is greater than the savings rate.
So like, the very very first thing, like at minimum
(13:20):
that someone should do is move that out of a
savings account and into a high yield savings account. And
so if you haven't yet, like if you just have
it sitting in Chase or something like, literally, the first
thing you need to do is move into highield savings
account so you're at least making like these days like
four to five percent. I know.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
I'm like, oh okay, step one got it.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
Doing that when we get off yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (13:48):
And then the second thing is like if you want
to start investing in the stock market and you literally
you're like I don't have any time whatsoever. There are
now things like robo advisors, things like Betterment Wealth Front
that like literally use AI to like plug in based
off your risk profile, just put it into stocks and
(14:09):
bonds and whatever, and like I put it in years ago,
it's like it's I've already made an additional one hundred k,
like just sticking it in a like creating an account,
and I literally forgot that it was there.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
And then I was like, let me check my Like
I checked it a year later. I was like, that's
not bad.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
What's your thoughts on bitcoin?
Speaker 5 (14:32):
Oh? Well, at this point, bitcoin is like it's kind
of like like when you think of just a stable asset,
At this point, it's getting more and more stable and
more and more correlated with like the dollar and like
the gold standard. So at this point, anybody who invests
in bitcoin is not going to make a ton of money.
(14:54):
It's just like investing in something that's like, you know,
might go up and.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Might go down.
Speaker 5 (14:58):
But I I don't think that we're going to see
the same sort of hype that we've seen before, because
we've we've had like multiple of these crashes.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
At this point, would you take your money out if
you had any in there? Would you just keep it
and let it ride? Like if you if you're able to,
just like.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
I would keep it. I would keep it and let
it ride.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Yeah, I did that at.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
Least we got that.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Yeah, it's stressful, but I also did that on a
man's like my brother, he's like one of those days,
got to go to this. I'm like, this is stressing
me out, like this is just too much, like it's
just it's yea. And then I'm yeah, I'm like I'm
just like put it in, let it ride. But again,
I would like to be more knowledgeable about like what
is what it's riding in because I think I think
(15:42):
a lot of it is just in a checking do
like you know what I mean. Like so and my
business manager at text me their day side note for later.
Speaker 5 (15:51):
But.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
He was like, uh, yeah, I got your your interest
rate up to you know, let's say like four points something.
And I go, well, isn't that Do we want to
have a lower interest rate? So again he's like no,
he's like with your money, you want higher. But when
like for the house mortgage that you have, he's like,
we want that lower. So I'm like okay. So it's
like because I again I come from like the scarcity,
(16:14):
like you said, like money, I have massive scarcity anxiety
with money. I don't like it, and I wasn't raised
with it, didn't have it. So it's like, so now
I'm just like I cling. But what's interesting is I'm
about to close on a house and all I can
think about right now is buying a purse. And I
don't even shop for myself. I have two purses. I know,
I've like been eyeing this one bag and I'm like,
why oh, because I'm buying a house and I'm stressed
(16:36):
about money.
Speaker 4 (16:37):
So that's so like when women stressed about money, they
just want to go spend it.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah, And I did the same thing my very first
house in East Nashville. I bought a pair of shoes
and I was like, I don't have any money, and
then I'm like clicks purchase because I was like stressing out,
and it's I started to get that itch because I
close in two weeks and I'm just like, you know,
freaking out about the interest straights and the money and
(17:01):
the stuff and the how and all the furniture. And
then I'm like, oh the bag. I'm like, I don't look,
I don't give a crap about bags. Like I've got
literally two like designer bags that I've bought myself. Besides that,
I don't.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
It's like by it it's like the procrastination thing, right,
like you want to do anything but think.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
About the thing.
Speaker 5 (17:18):
So it's like your brain naturally tries to relieve like
the stress by doing something else. And then there's also
the self sabotage cycle. We're like, well, so much money
as well, just like you.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Yeah, and I'm like in the middle of wedding planning too,
and I'm like, you know, oh, it's terrible. So then
we wanted it said she can't do that date now
again because we weren't getting to the right price because
I'm just like I'm counting pennies, you know, I'm pinching pennies.
I'm just like bags and pinching pennies, i know, because
I'm like with all the things, and I'm just like no,
this and this. She's like, oh, by the way, that
(17:52):
date's not available anymore, and so I just was like,
so now we got to go somewhere else. At this point,
I'm like, yeah, we'll do this place and whatever, you know,
because I'm just like like that's my bag now, like
times a couple, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (18:05):
So it's like it's it's like I didn't come from
money either, and I think that the scarcy mentality is
really it's like a whole thing that you have to
work through because and I compare it to like your
relationship romantically, it's like it's.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Like toxic relationship versus a healthy one.
Speaker 5 (18:24):
So a healthy one you want to help each other grow, nurture,
you know, communicate, there's like transparency and you want what's best.
And so you're like, if you want to go out
there and grow, you go grow, you know, and give
them space to breathe. And then a toxic relationship either
you're like you're not allowed out of the house, Like
you're not allowed to talk to other girls, other guys,
and like you're just like suffocating them because you're afraid
(18:47):
to lose them. But in trying to keep it and
save it, you actually end up loving.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Yes, I'm doing what I do with all my past relationships.
I'm controlling it and you can sitting on it. I
was like, you cannot leave me like you are you
are and you cannot leave me. And I don't.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Ever leave me.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
But I will say my biggest mistake that I made
was when I got on Like it was after One
Tree Hill, so I had finally some money in my account,
right I was like seeing some money and it was nice.
This is like right when I started doing like some
inful and sing stuff, and my business manager kept saying
we should start. At this time, I had no savings whatsoever,
and this was I've only had savings now for let's say,
(19:28):
how old's jas five six. I've only been investing for
six years, and I my biggest regret now is I
wish I started investing when I started making some money,
because but I was so terrified of losing anything that
was in my account. I couldn't fathom going I couldn't
lose one hundred grand, I couldn't lose twenty grand. I
couldn't lose any like even even the thought of losing
(19:50):
ten grand. I was just like, I can't do it.
So I had. I waited for a couple of years
beyond that, and I'm like, oh shoot, I could have
made money during that, but I was just so scared.
I'm like, what if I move it to this account
and then I can't get it and then I have
no money and then you know, like at square zero.
But it's like having that mentality actually screwed me.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Yeah, in a way, for sure, that's my husband for
you what he's like that he's scared of losing money.
I'm like, we need to invest more, and we need
to invest more, but he's so scared of losing money.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yeah, because you want to see that number, yeah in
the account. And it's just like but it's.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
It's hard.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
It's so hard.
Speaker 5 (20:29):
It is so I mean, there's also like the there's
a reason why like the richest and most power hungry
men are in finance and investing right everything private equity,
hedge funds, venture capital. And actually when you look at
fund managers, like less than one percent of fund managers
are women, are people of color, and so you literally
(20:49):
have like one hundred and five trillion dollars managed ninety
nine percent by men. And and like when we talk about
like even just anything related to like women's equality and
like gender equality, it's always like confidence, you know, like
save a little and you literally have been out there
who are just all they do is invest and like
(21:11):
the process of managing other people's money is literally give
me your money, I'm going to invest it, and I'm
going to take a profit, like a slice of the profits.
And that is how like the richest men in the
world get.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
So what's another tip that in your book The Bad
Bitch Empire, Like, what the wasnt It's Bible? It's the Bible.
What's something else that your readers can take away from
from that book that would be beneficial for.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Them in terms of money or like anything.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Whatever else that you write in there.
Speaker 5 (21:57):
So yeah, So the book is split into ten Commandments,
and it's the first So the three parts body, boundaries,
and bank account. And the body side is really around
like learning how to take up space even if you're
you know, especially if you're a woman in male dominated industries,
and then how to assert your voice if you're shy,
(22:18):
or like how to get heard in rooms. The boundaries
part is something that is really important because I think
I've struggled with having strong boundaries for a lot of
my life because I always wanted to be polite. I
like always sought validation and approval and like with people pleasing,
and I think a lot of women have that challenge.
(22:39):
And so one of the most difficult experiences I had
early on in my career was like I had a
really bad business partnership, like a toxic one.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
And it really it was like it literally was like a.
Speaker 5 (22:53):
Relationship and I talk about how like literally everyone you
surround your self with.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
So this is the commandment called.
Speaker 5 (23:01):
A bad bitch curates for crew, whether it's your business partner,
your investor, your team, your friends. Like if you literally
are the like the your success is defined by the
five people you surround yourself the most with, right, And
so it's like whoever you surround yourself with is going
(23:21):
to influence you. So I teach women how to create
their personal their core value list. So any of my
coaching clients that I work with, the CEOs, it's like, you.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
Need a like five core values for.
Speaker 5 (23:33):
Your life, just like you need five core values for
your business.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
And then you can create.
Speaker 5 (23:39):
Questions around them, like to really understand like does this
person fit into my core values or not?
Speaker 3 (23:47):
And then like sometimes you just got to cut people.
You really got to just like cut people out and
level up. And it's the same it's like kind of
like you're firing a team member. Sometimes you got to
fire a friend. Sometimes you got to fire a business partner.
Speaker 5 (24:00):
And I talk about, you know, really how to do
that and why it's okay to outgrow some of the
people in your life.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Well, Lisa, thank you so much for coming on Where
can our listeners find you?
Speaker 5 (24:11):
You can find me at Lisa Carmen Wine on all
social channels, and then get the Bagage Business Bible at
Badmache Empire dot com, where you also find the podcast
as well as our investment and business academy.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Awesome, Lisa, thank you so much for coming on all
this is very knowledgeable. Yes, changing my savings yes, right now?
Whatever the change to something else? Yeah, okay, thank you
so much
Wind Down with Janet Kramer and Imheart Radio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
This week's whine About at Thursday Therapy, We've got Lisa
Carmen Wang So. She's the founder and CEO of Bad
Bitch Empire, community investment platform building unapologetic worth and wealth
for women. She's also a four time USA National Champion
and Hall of Fame gymnast turns, serial entrepreneur, angel investor,
a venture capitalist, certified executive coach, and global speaker. She's
(00:28):
been named Forbes thirty Under thirty in Venture Capital, Entrepreneur
magazines one hundred Most Powerful Women Fast Company Executive Board.
She began her career at a fifteen billion dollar hedge fund.
Is a graduate of Yale University and is on a
lifelong mission to help women build unapologetic worth and wealth again.
(00:49):
Her book is coming out. It's called The Bad Bitch
Business Bible, which are commandments to break free of good
girl brainwashing and take charge of your body, boundaries and
bank account. Run Hello by girl, Lisa, So excited to
have you on. Was reading your bio and I'm just like,
damn like you are like literally the definition of a
(01:13):
bad bitch, like from being you know, insane gymnastics and
then building this empire, and you've got your book coming out,
the Bad Bitch Business Bible. I'm just like, I mean,
how old are you?
Speaker 3 (01:26):
By the way, I'm thirty four.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
I mean, wow, that makes you feel like we've done
We've a called with my life, Jesus.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
So how old were you, like your gymnastics years? So
how long? Like when did you stop doing gymnastics.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
When I was nineteen nineteen?
Speaker 5 (01:43):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
What was the stop? Was there a reason where you
were just like.
Speaker 5 (01:48):
So I was Olympic alternate for two thousand and eight,
and like I had been champion for a few years,
and at that point, like I got into Yale. And
also when your nineteen year like old.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
It's interesting when you say that, you know, nineteen stool,
because I was just reading about Simone Biles. I'm like,
she's twenty six years old.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Yeah, it's nice and.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
You know going back to the Olympics, like that's she's
she's also a bad bitch. That's insane. I've always wondered too,
as you said this, like being the alternate for the
Olympics was that kind of hard to go? I was
this close to being on the actual team.
Speaker 5 (02:27):
It was probably one of the hardest experiences that I
had in my life because it was zero point two
five tenths of a point that I missed it. And
it's like it's the covalent of a pinky toe. And
when you train for ten years for that dream, and
also my entire identity was I am a gymnast, and
(02:47):
so it's like when you're like, from the age of
nine to nineteen, I'm like, that's my dream and training
like eight nine hours a day by the end of
my career, and I had my coach, is, my parents,
the country like this whole pressure to qualify for it,
and then when I didn't make it, I was like,
(03:07):
it's just like utter shock and then you're like I
don't know what to do with my like who am I?
Speaker 3 (03:12):
And so I think that was.
Speaker 5 (03:13):
Really the moment where I like really discovered what I
call my inner bad bitch voice, because I realized that
my identity wasn't that of a gymnast, it was that
of a winner and a fighter. And so what I
ended up doing was I actually got into Yale like
right during that same period, and I told Yale that
(03:35):
I wasn't going to go for that year and I
bought a one way ticket to Russia to the Russian
Olympic Training Center, and like, so if you imagine Siberia
in the middle of winter, and that's what it was like,
nine hours a day of training with like the most crazy,
strict Russian coaches that you can imagine.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
And I was like, Okay, for nine months.
Speaker 5 (03:54):
I'm just going to train, travel, compete, and like be
the best gymnast I can possibly be, because like, winners
don't fuit when they're doing. And so I ended my
last competition a year later at the two thousand and
eight US National Championships, and I won every single gold
medal Athlete of the year, and I was like, peace, Okay,
now I'm out, Like this, this is how a winner
(04:14):
ends their career. So like, even though I didn't make
the Olympics, I kind of put a bow on it
and like ended that chapter of my life the way
I wanted to, and then eventually got inducted into the
Hall of Fame.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Hell yeah, that's amazing. Okay, So tell me take me
back to this whole.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Like good girl image thing that you used to like,
is that something that was like put on you from
your family?
Speaker 4 (04:35):
Was that like a religious thing or like, tell me
more about that.
Speaker 5 (04:39):
I think it's very common amongst like immigrant children, Asian girls,
especially Indian girls, And I think it has to do
with like this knowing that your family also made a
huge sacrifice to come to the country, and there's a
lot of guilt pressure on you to be successful and
to have that soccer if ice not be for nothing.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
So yeah, I always felt like.
Speaker 5 (05:04):
I had to get straight a's, I had to do
well in school. If I was going to do it,
I was going to do it exceptionally well. And I
also had that innate drive in me. I think there
was just like the perfectionism. And so when I think
about good girl brainwashing, it's just like all the societal
media messages that have trained women to be like obedient, polite,
(05:25):
perfect people, pleasing.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
To work hard to prove ourselves to.
Speaker 5 (05:30):
Other people, rather than like knowing innately that we are
enough and valuable. It's like the fact that we're more
afraid to take risks on ourselves, We're more afraid to
dream bigger because there's probably more messages that are like, oh.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Be careful, you know, be a good girl. It's okay.
And yeah, I feel like I had a lot of that.
Speaker 5 (05:50):
Just like internal training in me that was especially from gymnastics.
It's like literally a perfect ten. You know, it's like
be the perfect good girl, listen to your coaches. Where
the perfect leotard had the perfect body, like move the
perfect way, and so I kind of had like exponentially worse.
So by the time I left gymnastics and like went
(06:11):
into the real world, I was like, I don't know
what to do when I don't have a plan for
someone coaching me and telling me what perfect like perfection
and perfect ten is.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Do you think when you, I mean your parents were
they were they really hard on you? Or was that
just the expectation that you thought that they had for
you and on you or would they have been like,
you know, were they accepting of kind of like this
new path and like not making in the team. And
then you know, also you know, you going into your
(06:57):
own entrepreneur. I mean, now they've got to be like
and he's so proud, but like, do you think if
you were like, no, I just want to do this,
would they have would they have been okay with that?
Speaker 3 (07:07):
I think that's what they would have wanted.
Speaker 5 (07:09):
So the good girl path like I kept going down
the good girl path, like I got into the Ivy League,
and to this day that's still You go to the
richest family in Asia and their number one dream for
their child is to go to an IVY league, right,
so it's still very much the American dream.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
And then you.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
Then like the goal is become a lawyer, a doctor,
investment bank or consultant. So actually, I think they would
have been very happy had I just stayed at a
safe corporate job.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
So it was like the.
Speaker 5 (07:42):
Real move was me finally prioritizing how I felt, and
I was like, I don't feel happy, I don't feel
liberated sitting at this corporate job in finance, and like,
I don't think this is me. So I think I
really started to like on the path figuring out who
I actually was, like when I took that leap into entrepreneurship,
(08:03):
because for the first time really there was just like
no rules and I just had to figure out, like
what does good enough or like great look like for me.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
I just kind of chuckled to myself, thinking because I'm like, God,
my parents' only dream was like that I graduated high school.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
Like for like, it's a very different I know.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
I can't imagine like that pressure that you must feel,
and like you said, it's something that's you know, other
you know people feel, and I just that would that
would be hard to always live up to that like
expectation or to not feel like you're disappointing them. But now,
I mean again, you've got your new book coming out,
Bad Bitch Empire. And something happened the other day where
(08:46):
I was. I was at this charity event and I
was golfing, which I don't golf, but I was there
and pretending to golf and the people that I was
golfing with they were investment bankers, And to be truthful you,
I was like, so, you know, asking them all these
questions because I actually don't know, Like I have a
financial advisor and I just kind of trust that he's
(09:08):
putting it into things. And there's something about me where
I'm like, I have no knowledge, like actually, what is
you know, what should I be making sure that my
financial advisor is investing certain things in? But it was
not taught to me, nor did I know, nor is
it something that I truthfully have done their research to
look into. But because it just feels like, oh, the
(09:31):
man right, But I'm like, well, why are we why
are women not taking that control? And so when I
read that, you know you're helping empower women to like
have that wealth and investments, Like what is that first
step to? Because I truthfully I don't want to read
I don't want to read a boring investment book. I'd
like to read your book because your book excites me,
like knowing, Okay, maybe you're going to get some good
(09:52):
tips in there, but like, what are some are there
tips in there that help women to be better investors
with their money?
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (10:01):
Well I want to zoom out a little bit and
just first like think about the concept of money in
and of itself, because I think a lot of women
just feel like the moment you think finances and like money,
there's just some sort of anxiety or like aversion to it,
Like I don't really want to deal with that. Let
me just go spend it on these attitudes and the
(10:23):
avoidance and so like, I like to think a lot
about how, first of all, money is like it's just
it's a piece of paper, right. And the reason why
I have values is because society has basically been like
we have decided that when you exchange a piece of
paper that you will be able to get a coffee,
(10:44):
you know, handbag or whatever. And like if you just
break it down, you're like, Okay, this is literally just
a piece of paper, and it's about an exchange of value.
So if money is like an energetic exchange of value,
and like I think of the embodiment of feminine wealth.
So there's a lot of like what are women naturally
really good at? So our natural superpower intuition, right, we
(11:09):
feel we give life. And so I had this this
I was signing to this friend, my friend of mine.
We were like, okay, the mother nature is feminine, right,
Like our god given right is to like give life
to the next generation. And so if investing is literally
like taking something and like multiplying it and like giving
(11:33):
it life, so that's like we naturally already do that,
Like you take a seed and you like grow it,
and that's what investing is. And so women, if you
actually look at the data, women outperform men forty basis
points on average. And it's because men tend to trade
a lot, and they're like impulsively trading. Men are actually
(11:54):
more emotional like when it comes to the market. So
you're like, oh my god, I want to get in
that foma whatever. And over time, men actually make less
money than women. And so when we talk about you
and like Warren Buffett, a lot of times we say,
like Warren Buffett has a feminine investing style because he
looks long term. He was like, I'm going to do
my research. I'm going to be really careful once I
(12:15):
put it in its game. And that's how women tend
to invest, where like we don't want to be sitting
here on our computer day trading every single day and
like every single moment. You're like, I'm busy. I just
want to like do my research, feel good about it. Intuitively,
like I know this company like makes sense, put it
in and just like set it and forget it. And
that is actually what investing is. Like the best types
(12:35):
of investors are long term investors, and so that's the
first thing to just like even embrace the identity of
being an investor. It's like, if you spend money to
exchange value and you make good purchases, you are probably
a good investor. And also women women control eighty five
percent of all consumer spending, so it's like we do
(12:57):
make good purchases like we do make purchases good for
the environment, for ourselves, for our families, and so, like,
I think the mindset piece is really important. The second
thing is also understanding that like you should not have
your money in a savings account, because if you keep
your money in a savings account, you lose money every
day because the inflation rate is greater than the savings rate.
So like, the very very first thing, like at minimum
(13:20):
that someone should do is move that out of a
savings account and into a high yield savings account. And
so if you haven't yet, like if you just have
it sitting in Chase or something like, literally, the first
thing you need to do is move into highield savings
account so you're at least making like these days like
four to five percent. I know.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
I'm like, oh okay, step one got it.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
Doing that when we get off yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (13:48):
And then the second thing is like if you want
to start investing in the stock market and you literally
you're like I don't have any time whatsoever. There are
now things like robo advisors, things like Betterment Wealth Front
that like literally use AI to like plug in based
off your risk profile, just put it into stocks and
(14:09):
bonds and whatever, and like I put it in years ago,
it's like it's I've already made an additional one hundred k,
like just sticking it in a like creating an account,
and I literally forgot that it was there.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
And then I was like, let me check my Like
I checked it a year later. I was like, that's
not bad.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
What's your thoughts on bitcoin?
Speaker 5 (14:32):
Oh? Well, at this point, bitcoin is like it's kind
of like like when you think of just a stable asset,
At this point, it's getting more and more stable and
more and more correlated with like the dollar and like
the gold standard. So at this point, anybody who invests
in bitcoin is not going to make a ton of money.
(14:54):
It's just like investing in something that's like, you know,
might go up and.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Might go down.
Speaker 5 (14:58):
But I I don't think that we're going to see
the same sort of hype that we've seen before, because
we've we've had like multiple of these crashes.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
At this point, would you take your money out if
you had any in there? Would you just keep it
and let it ride? Like if you if you're able to,
just like.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
I would keep it. I would keep it and let
it ride.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Yeah, I did that at.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
Least we got that.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Yeah, it's stressful, but I also did that on a
man's like my brother, he's like one of those days,
got to go to this. I'm like, this is stressing
me out, like this is just too much, like it's
just it's yea. And then I'm yeah, I'm like I'm
just like put it in, let it ride. But again,
I would like to be more knowledgeable about like what
is what it's riding in because I think I think
(15:42):
a lot of it is just in a checking do
like you know what I mean. Like so and my
business manager at text me their day side note for later.
Speaker 5 (15:51):
But.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
He was like, uh, yeah, I got your your interest
rate up to you know, let's say like four points something.
And I go, well, isn't that Do we want to
have a lower interest rate? So again he's like no,
he's like with your money, you want higher. But when
like for the house mortgage that you have, he's like,
we want that lower. So I'm like okay. So it's
like because I again I come from like the scarcity,
(16:14):
like you said, like money, I have massive scarcity anxiety
with money. I don't like it, and I wasn't raised
with it, didn't have it. So it's like, so now
I'm just like I cling. But what's interesting is I'm
about to close on a house and all I can
think about right now is buying a purse. And I
don't even shop for myself. I have two purses. I know,
I've like been eyeing this one bag and I'm like,
why oh, because I'm buying a house and I'm stressed
(16:36):
about money.
Speaker 4 (16:37):
So that's so like when women stressed about money, they
just want to go spend it.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah, And I did the same thing my very first
house in East Nashville. I bought a pair of shoes
and I was like, I don't have any money, and
then I'm like clicks purchase because I was like stressing out,
and it's I started to get that itch because I
close in two weeks and I'm just like, you know,
freaking out about the interest straights and the money and
(17:01):
the stuff and the how and all the furniture. And
then I'm like, oh the bag. I'm like, I don't look,
I don't give a crap about bags. Like I've got
literally two like designer bags that I've bought myself. Besides that,
I don't.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
It's like by it it's like the procrastination thing, right,
like you want to do anything but think.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
About the thing.
Speaker 5 (17:18):
So it's like your brain naturally tries to relieve like
the stress by doing something else. And then there's also
the self sabotage cycle. We're like, well, so much money
as well, just like you.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Yeah, and I'm like in the middle of wedding planning too,
and I'm like, you know, oh, it's terrible. So then
we wanted it said she can't do that date now
again because we weren't getting to the right price because
I'm just like I'm counting pennies, you know, I'm pinching pennies.
I'm just like bags and pinching pennies, i know, because
I'm like with all the things, and I'm just like no,
this and this. She's like, oh, by the way, that
(17:52):
date's not available anymore, and so I just was like,
so now we got to go somewhere else. At this point,
I'm like, yeah, we'll do this place and whatever, you know,
because I'm just like like that's my bag now, like
times a couple, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (18:05):
So it's like it's it's like I didn't come from
money either, and I think that the scarcy mentality is
really it's like a whole thing that you have to
work through because and I compare it to like your
relationship romantically, it's like it's.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Like toxic relationship versus a healthy one.
Speaker 5 (18:24):
So a healthy one you want to help each other grow, nurture,
you know, communicate, there's like transparency and you want what's best.
And so you're like, if you want to go out
there and grow, you go grow, you know, and give
them space to breathe. And then a toxic relationship either
you're like you're not allowed out of the house, Like
you're not allowed to talk to other girls, other guys,
and like you're just like suffocating them because you're afraid
(18:47):
to lose them. But in trying to keep it and
save it, you actually end up loving.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Yes, I'm doing what I do with all my past relationships.
I'm controlling it and you can sitting on it. I
was like, you cannot leave me like you are you
are and you cannot leave me. And I don't.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Ever leave me.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
But I will say my biggest mistake that I made
was when I got on Like it was after One
Tree Hill, so I had finally some money in my account,
right I was like seeing some money and it was nice.
This is like right when I started doing like some
inful and sing stuff, and my business manager kept saying
we should start. At this time, I had no savings whatsoever,
and this was I've only had savings now for let's say,
(19:28):
how old's jas five six. I've only been investing for
six years, and I my biggest regret now is I
wish I started investing when I started making some money,
because but I was so terrified of losing anything that
was in my account. I couldn't fathom going I couldn't
lose one hundred grand, I couldn't lose twenty grand. I
couldn't lose any like even even the thought of losing
(19:50):
ten grand. I was just like, I can't do it.
So I had. I waited for a couple of years
beyond that, and I'm like, oh shoot, I could have
made money during that, but I was just so scared.
I'm like, what if I move it to this account
and then I can't get it and then I have
no money and then you know, like at square zero.
But it's like having that mentality actually screwed me.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Yeah, in a way, for sure, that's my husband for
you what he's like that he's scared of losing money.
I'm like, we need to invest more, and we need
to invest more, but he's so scared of losing money.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yeah, because you want to see that number, yeah in
the account. And it's just like but it's.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
It's hard.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
It's so hard.
Speaker 5 (20:29):
It is so I mean, there's also like the there's
a reason why like the richest and most power hungry
men are in finance and investing right everything private equity,
hedge funds, venture capital. And actually when you look at
fund managers, like less than one percent of fund managers
are women, are people of color, and so you literally
(20:49):
have like one hundred and five trillion dollars managed ninety
nine percent by men. And and like when we talk about
like even just anything related to like women's equality and
like gender equality, it's always like confidence, you know, like
save a little and you literally have been out there
who are just all they do is invest and like
(21:11):
the process of managing other people's money is literally give
me your money, I'm going to invest it, and I'm
going to take a profit, like a slice of the profits.
And that is how like the richest men in the
world get.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
So what's another tip that in your book The Bad
Bitch Empire, Like, what the wasnt It's Bible? It's the Bible.
What's something else that your readers can take away from
from that book that would be beneficial for.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Them in terms of money or like anything.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Whatever else that you write in there.
Speaker 5 (21:57):
So yeah, So the book is split into ten Commandments,
and it's the first So the three parts body, boundaries,
and bank account. And the body side is really around
like learning how to take up space even if you're
you know, especially if you're a woman in male dominated industries,
and then how to assert your voice if you're shy,
(22:18):
or like how to get heard in rooms. The boundaries
part is something that is really important because I think
I've struggled with having strong boundaries for a lot of
my life because I always wanted to be polite. I
like always sought validation and approval and like with people pleasing,
and I think a lot of women have that challenge.
(22:39):
And so one of the most difficult experiences I had
early on in my career was like I had a
really bad business partnership, like a toxic one.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
And it really it was like it literally was like a.
Speaker 5 (22:53):
Relationship and I talk about how like literally everyone you
surround your self with.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
So this is the commandment called.
Speaker 5 (23:01):
A bad bitch curates for crew, whether it's your business partner,
your investor, your team, your friends. Like if you literally
are the like the your success is defined by the
five people you surround yourself the most with, right, And
so it's like whoever you surround yourself with is going
(23:21):
to influence you. So I teach women how to create
their personal their core value list. So any of my
coaching clients that I work with, the CEOs, it's like, you.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
Need a like five core values for.
Speaker 5 (23:33):
Your life, just like you need five core values for
your business.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
And then you can create.
Speaker 5 (23:39):
Questions around them, like to really understand like does this
person fit into my core values or not?
Speaker 3 (23:47):
And then like sometimes you just got to cut people.
You really got to just like cut people out and
level up. And it's the same it's like kind of
like you're firing a team member. Sometimes you got to
fire a friend. Sometimes you got to fire a business partner.
Speaker 5 (24:00):
And I talk about, you know, really how to do
that and why it's okay to outgrow some of the
people in your life.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Well, Lisa, thank you so much for coming on Where
can our listeners find you?
Speaker 5 (24:11):
You can find me at Lisa Carmen Wine on all
social channels, and then get the Bagage Business Bible at
Badmache Empire dot com, where you also find the podcast
as well as our investment and business academy.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Awesome, Lisa, thank you so much for coming on all
this is very knowledgeable. Yes, changing my savings yes, right now?
Whatever the change to something else? Yeah, okay, thank you
so much
Host
Jana Kramer
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