August 25, 2025 • 40 mins
Ashlyn sits down with model and entrepreneur Lauren Chan for a conversation about Lauren’s divorce and late-in-life coming out, becoming a queer trailblazer in the fashion world, and why leading with vulnerability can actually be a power move. Lauren also opens up about using basketball as both an outlet and an identity, the pressure girls face around body image in sports, and what it really took to pivot from corporate publishing to the runway—while shutting down online haters along the way.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome back, everyone to another episode of Wide Open with
Ashlyn Harris. I am so excited to introduce our guests today.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Lauren Chan, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Thank you so much for having me. I'm about to
be wide open. I never thought I'd get to say
that to you, but here we are.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Here we are baby. The words is going.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
And for those of you who don't know Lauren, she's
not only an entrepreneur, but she is an unbelievable model.
And you fight for so much like inclusion in fashion,
which I just love women who are pushing the boundaries
of being the first. And I'm so grateful for the
(00:50):
work that you're doing.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
And you're the first.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Solo cover queer LGBTQ plus women on the freaking cover
of Sports Illustrated.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Like why I am the first solo lesbian on the cover? Okay,
I do have to clear up some lesbian drama I
kind of started.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Oh no, okay, tell me everything because I don't know this.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Some of the press said that I was the first
lesbian on the cover of Sports illus Traded Swimsuit issue,
which is amazing. It's close. But Megan Rappino and Sue
Bird were part of the twenty seven person Legends cover
in twenty twenty four, so they were the first lesbians
on the cover of the Sports Tales Traded Swimsuit issue.
I'm so happy to follow in their footsteps and be
the first solo solo.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Well you get to just add in the bitch it's
only me part no, Megan Sue. I did not no
no no, no no no.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
I said that they're like my best friends. They know,
but I'm saying solow cover.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
But what you.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Represented and that was so groundbreaking, and I imagine it
changed your life quite because it went everywhere, Lauren, like
everyone was talking about it, so I would think it
was a positive thing.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
But I also don't read all the comments.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
I wish I didn't read all the comments. I need
to learn a lesson from you. I'm a little bit
new to this, but I think that my life really
changed when I became a rookie in twenty twenty three,
which is one of their regular models. Because when I
did that, I also came out publicly. I wrote an
essay for Sports Illustrated, and I mean talk about a
(02:30):
life change. I had systems crumbling that were personal, identity,
relationship or public figure. Dum whatever you want to, you know,
suggest it probably changed in my life. And then I
think in the past two years, what's really happened is
I've come into myself. I know myself more. I can
(02:51):
stand Tanto's down on what I'm saying a little harder,
and I think that this is the perfect time to
have gotten the opportunity to have, like you're saying, the
bigger platform of the cover. It also goes hand in
hand with you, knows as I'm sure you experienced too,
these these internet keyboard warrior trolls, whatever you want to
(03:11):
call them. I actually was able to write an essay
for the issue this year because one of those trolls
really got my goat because they commented on one of
my swimsuit pictures and said, this makes zero sense. Who
are we even doing this for anymore women? And he
was genuinely befuddled that Sports Illustrated Swimsuit was not just
(03:35):
objectifying women for the male gaze. And so, like I said,
I've learned to kind of speak my mind over the
past few years, and I went in pretty hard on him,
which turned into an essay and the cover. So I
like to I like to make an example of a troll.
I like to fight back. You know, I'm really confident
in who I am and if it behooves me and
(03:56):
the community that you know, season cells represented in me,
I am always going to eat up a man on
the internet.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Oh, I live for that.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I wonder because what a lot of people don't know
about you is you grew up playing sports in Canada,
and like, as a retired professional athlete, there's so much
that sport taught me in terms of how I show
up in a world that feels pretty fucking cruel. I'll
be honest, Like it's hard out there now, and I
(04:27):
wonder if being raised and playing sports and playing basketball
and really being coachable and working hard, and people have
a lot of opinions like did you bring that into
the picture.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
To really just like own who you are?
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Well, first of all, it's like such an honor to
have you call that out in me, because I mean,
talk about a goat. I think that what we learn
in sports becomes part of personality. You know, it's not
even like I call in it, And I'm sure the
same way, it's not like you have to like bring
that side out of you. It's who you are in
(05:08):
so many ways, it's teamwork, it's coachability, it's it's greater good.
It's getting up when you lose, it's working your ass
off when no one's watching. It's all of the things
that make an athlete a great athlete, that make me,
I hope, a good leader and representative and person.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Really yeah, I mean it's and there's something and I'm
sure you know this, which if people don't know this,
one in every two young girls are dropping out of
sports by the age of fourteen because of body confidence issues,
And like, that's a really troublesome number for me.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
One in every two young girls.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Like sport gave me so much purpose and strength and
belonging and I could express myself in a way that
felt really important to my development. And to think now
that one in every two little girls are just being like,
my body's changing and I can't do this, and I
(06:17):
don't feel comfortable going to swim class and putting a
bathing suit on, and oh my god, I'm running, and
I'm hitting puberty, and my breasts are getting bigger and
I'm self conscious. Like all of these things are really
happening in real time, and the media has an obligation
to do something about it, because what we show them
(06:37):
in terms of beauty really affects whether they continue to
show up and play these sports. And I think you
and Alona are really doing such a brave thing that's
saying like, we're okay, Like my body is beautiful and
it looks like this, and it serves an insane reason
and purpose.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
And I don't feel bad about it either, should you.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
I think that in my former life as a fashion
editor and then plus size business founder, I really was
focused on that with regard to the workplace, and so
it makes sense that you're focused on it via sports.
I was, you know, in the corporate publishing world, and
so I was thinking about it in the workplace, and
there it holds up promotions, pay it makes the gap worse,
(07:22):
especially when you compound that with the fact that people
who are not white generally have larger bodies, et cetera,
et cetera. And I think the point perhaps of that
is that no matter which part of a woman's life
you look at, if we subscribe to this bullshit beauty
ideal and let it stop us from doing what we
want to do or what we can achieve, then we're
(07:44):
doing ourselves a huge disservice, and we're buying it the
system that was made up to keep us down. And
so I always try to use my voice to say, oh,
stop it. That is fake. It's made up. It's literally
put there so that you cannot have the life that
you want. And I don't any woman should believe in that,
(08:04):
no matter how old they are or what it is
that they're trying to do.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
I remember feeling so much shame.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
You know.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
I played for the US team and every.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Inch, every small percentage mattered to be great. And I
just remember doing all the body composition tests and I
would always like read into my BMIs and I would
like look and I'd be like, fuck, I just don't
look like a lot of like a Tobin Heath or
(08:34):
you know, a Megan Rapino, and it's like it's it's
really hard. It was like the worst part of everything
for me is that yearly test where we would get
our body.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Like and everything was scanned, and I was like, fuck,
here we go again.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
It would really pick me apart for like a while,
and I was obsessive about it.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
The theme is vulnerability, and so to have me sitting
here and when listening, sitting here and hearing Ashlyn Harris
say that, yeah, this got to me. I'm a fucking
champion of everything you can win and this gets me down,
makes it relatable. It makes everybody, from somebody like me
(09:15):
who doesn't never play professional sports, to a young preteen
girl to maybe people who don't even have anything to
do with sports, be able to hear that vulnerability and
still push through in their lives and lead with that.
And that's what I try to do with my representation
with my physical body and my physical being as a
model is always say hey, this is what's real, this
(09:38):
is what I'm really feeling, this is how I really am,
And if you don't like it, there's the door. There's
a literal door, you know. I always want to be
creating community and being in space and having conversations around
that kind of subject around vulnerability and reality and progress
(10:01):
and breaking down the beauty ideal and having women feel
more powerful than the world wants them to.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
I'm really curious of where this pivot came in terms
of you know, you played sports, you played basketball. I
read that you had a really bad medical incident where
you were in the hospital for a month, and you
did you have to put sports behind you, and that
started the fashion and modeling, like, tell.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Me what happened.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Yeah, So I played basketball my whole life. Twist, being
really good at basketball makes you a really good lesbian.
I mean, the evidence is there, it's there, it's there,
it's there. And I went to I was playing on
a scholarship at my university in Canada, and then after
(10:54):
my first year, my appendix ruptured and because they kind
of didn't know what was going on, the surgery was
I mean like really invasive emergency, not laparoscopic or cleanly done,
and so I think at my lung had collapsed, they
cut through my bowels. My blood was septic, so there
(11:14):
was a lot of stuff that had gone wrong, and
the recovery was a long time, and beyond being in
the hospital, the physical recovery was at least half a
year after that, and I just never went back. And
so that's when I started writing and pursuing other interests.
I will say I felt allowed to pursue other interests
(11:34):
because basketball was quote unquote taken away from me. I
wonder what you're like, But for me and for a
lot of like the athletes that I was around at
the time, we could kind of do anything we were
told to until the end of the earth. And so
I don't know whether I would have quit. I have,
you know, teammates from my Ontario team and state teams
and whatever that have gone to the WNBA, and so
(11:57):
maybe I would have tried to do that and just
never never done anything else.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
It's true when they say one door closes, another door opens.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Most people who aren't you know, top tier athletes in
the world fall off a cliff when it comes to
sports after high school or college, like me, and you
have you go from having this place to be physically
competitive and in a team and working with authority and
battling and pushing your body who like, going into a
(12:28):
corporate job, and it's a hard transition. I mean, to me,
the former sounds like so much better of a life
experience to be having. And so I think that I
took a lot of that personality and brought it to
my job at the time in publishing. And I always,
(12:50):
you know, love to be a leader and do things
differently and make a difference, help the team, and and
so perhaps you know, I mean, you're really make me
think perhaps it was a lot of that in my
personality that helped me be different and be okay with
going against the grain and publishing. I will say I
had the most amazing team at Glamour, and so I
(13:13):
was really enabled to speak to the every woman. I
think at the time Glamour reached one in eight American women,
And it gave me the platform to be that real
communicator and be vulnerable and connect community around specifically plus
sized fashion there and so yeah, I'm so grateful for
my time there. It taught me. It taught me so much,
(13:35):
namely that leading with vulnerability is actually a great career move.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
This is wide open, and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
In sport, you're so often taught to like do what's
best for the team, and you have this tunnel vision
and it doesn't allow you to expand and take risk
in a way because everything is so structured. Right, It's like,
this is the game plan and this is what you're doing,
and these are your teammates and every week your role
might change. And now that I don't have to fall
(14:25):
in line and order, it's such a beautiful process of
letting go where that's so interesting and I do think
it's such a beautiful thing. And I got that way
later in life. And it's like you like you almost
are in this blurred vision and you shake and everything
becomes so clear.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
You need a new job as a therapist.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Well I know, but like we've both been through it, right,
We went through divorce and we've gone through such heartache.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
And I'm curious, like, how did you come to know?
How did you like go on this.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Exploration of like who you really are and finding out
your sexuality because it was later in life, and I
talked to Sophia all the time about this and it's like, wow,
there was so many signs, but it was almost like
I don't know if I had this space and bravery
to just like follow.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
My gut and my intuition. And I'm curious. You know,
I've been kind of gay all my life.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
I just I don't know what it's like to change
that later in life, and I'm curious of how that
becoming happened with you.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
You're gonna make me cry. I think Sophia and I
should talk about this. I would I mean talk about crying.
It would be so cathartic. Yeah, but I think that
I could have gone my whole life doing what I
was supposed to do because I'm good at it, like
I'm good at what. It's like a snaking eat stale.
(16:06):
I kind of only do things that I know i'll
be good at. But then I'm really good at the
things that I do, and I just keep doing that
because it's checking the boxes. Yep. Dream job by then, married,
by then, started a company, by then, sold a company
by then, And I probably would have kept doing that
because I thought I was getting enough out of it
(16:28):
for me. And then COVID hit and everything that I
oriented my life around got taken away. And so once
I kind of saved my business, that took about a
year to just I mean, I remember applying for furlough
and all this stuff anyhow not to go back there.
PTSD was, But after that there was not much going on.
(16:52):
I couldn't go to an office, I couldn't go to events,
I couldn't start a community thing. I you know, was
at home by myself, and I really dove into things therapy,
and I think that's where I really learned that the
systems you believe in and subscribe to are made up.
And I don't mean to say that in like a
funny way or a dramatic way they are And in
(17:16):
the past two years, queer people have really taught me
that you can choose how you want your life to
look full stop. And I also think I realized that
I never ever learned how to know myself. I never
slowed down, I never sat with my thoughts. I never
considered what my life would look like if no one
(17:39):
else ever told me to do anything. And then I
was on Women Loving Women TikTok, and it was like
a bitch, you're gay, and I would be like ah
and scirl and I'd be like, nope, you're going to
watch this, and I just it was a slow burn.
It took at least a year to come out to
myself and my partner at the time, my ex husband,
(18:03):
and then another year to kind of really be well,
I guess what I present to the world now. And
so yeah, I was thirty two, went through divorce. It
was so sad and so hard. Yeah, I believe a
lot in speaking about it, because I don't believe in
the stigma of divorce again, think that, you know, forcing
(18:24):
women to be stuck in marriages and not choose themselves
whether they have children or not. Perhaps especially if they
do in order to set a good example. I just
don't believe in sticking to those those old tropes. I mean,
it's archatic at this point. And everybody I know that
is divorced is happier, healthier, chose something for themselves, you know,
(18:46):
built a life that they built from a time in
their life when they knew themselves better, had more money,
had more success, and access, was feeling less of a
void what have you.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
It's beautiful, though, and you can see it, like you're
so radiant, and you know, I've seen pictures of you
and your partner, and it's just you move differently when
you choose yourself, when you choose joy, and you are
brave enough to say the hard things. It's like it's
really liberating, and you can see it, and I think
(19:18):
it's really beautiful. I haven't met your partner, but I've
heard nothing but fantastic things.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Really, And.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Was this your first like experience with women? Oh my god,
I'm obsessed. You and Sophia really need to like hang
out and say all of the things.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
I know I well, I had mentioned to you. I
saw her a few times during Pride, and one of
the things was her dinner, and so everyone was kind of,
you know, having a moment with her. But at the bar,
I was like, our stories are really similar, and I
just want to say thank you for putting it out
there because it really helps. It really really helps to
know that you're not alone. But yeah, Haley's the best.
(19:57):
I mean, she was the self that soothed every thing
about starting over. She brings like joy and hilarity and
love and connection to every single moment of every single day.
And I often sit around and think like, Wow, this
was really hard fought, but it was worth every every second.
(20:17):
And now I take the little things for granted and
I'll have to go wow, I used to not be
able to. This is so silly. But I have a
hat with a pin that says mean dyke on it,
and I remember I love it so much. I wear
I wear it out, I wear it to the park,
I wear it wherever. And I remember being so trapped
by not even being able to identify in any small
(20:40):
way as queer because I make it's safeer appropriate, or
the thing to do, or if I would hurt somebody,
and something as little as buying that pin and wearing
it is like it glazes right over me. But wow,
what a difference.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Oh my gosh, I love this. I like it was
so funny that I'll get you one, please please. It's
I was saying this to Sophie we had.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
We had dinner with a bunch of her friends last night,
and everyone we do like at our dinners, we always
like to like say words of affirmation and well wishous
to people, And I just like to sit at the
table and hear everyone speak about her joy and her
light and how it's changed and how making like hard
(21:25):
book brave decisions, Like she's a totally different human and
I think it's so profound and so special to really
find your person later in life.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
I know her step really and you step really. I've
never seen you together, but I mean, what a matchmate
in heaven.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
It's so y'all seem so yeah, joyful and resistant and
deep and exemplary and open and really like inspiring in anyway.
Is not just because you're you know, an actress and
(22:05):
a soccer star. Because of who you are and that
I feel like is leading with lately and it's just
so so so nice.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Witness, thank you, You're so so sweet. But I will
say this because I struggled with this. You think I've
been out for a long time. I actually didn't come
out till twenty nineteen because I was I've been you know,
like doing this for a while, but I was so
scared to lose sponsors. I was scared to lose my job.
(22:36):
I was scared. I was just so scared that it
would be distracting to the team and to the fans
and all these things.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
You know, you had said playing sports was about falling
in line in the team and not being able to
do what you wanted. And now you feel brave, and
so that makes that connection makes sense to me. Did
you how do you feel on the how did you
feel immediately on the other side, I really helped, totally real.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Everyone was so kind, the sponsors were so nice. I
didn't lose anything. I actually just gained like a lot
in myself. The courage of walking around and holding hands
and doing all these things like that was really important too,
because I, you know, there it was so conflicting as
(23:25):
someone who's so outspoken about mental health and you know,
showing up exactly who you are. But like part of me,
like half of half of myself, was missing. But I
am curious when you finally wrote what you wrote to
come out and sports illustrated, how how did people receive
that from you?
Speaker 3 (23:46):
I feel the same way. I feel like if I
lost anything, I maybe don't really know about it, like
perhaps there was some work thing on the table that
didn't come to fruition. I lost followers that I never
even knew were there. But everything that I gained I
would pay my everything I have for. But I think
(24:07):
for people like us who were talking about it, I mean,
in the context of your initial question, which is sponsorship,
that's a question of alignment and leading with who you are,
whether that's queer, whether that's just showing your personality. Like
I'm trying to be all myself and talk my shit
and be funny on the Internet. And if I lose
some from you know, brands and that I work with
(24:28):
because of that, then I'll get new ones that better
aligned with me. And I think that there are so
many amazing folks on the Internet, specifically queer creators who
have like helped teach me that, and so no, I
think that everything that we gain will be more aligned
and even if it's like perhaps less, it's better.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Yeah, Yeah, that part. That's an important piece.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
And I like, I always ask this question, what was
the moment that split you wide open, that like changed
it all for you, whether it was personal or professional.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
That really like that was it.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
That's one thing I can clock that shifted the perspective
of everything.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Okay, I'm going to try not to make a joke here, please,
but no, I mean, well, I think it was. I
think it was going to therapy. And I that was
a slow answer because it was a decision that I
made years prior to realizing that I was gay and
(25:39):
being able to come out and deal with that in therapy.
But I had started, you know, years before with regard
to owning a business and how to deal with that,
and so I think that decision is really the one
that opened myself up to myself and then stot me
wide open to the world. Yeah, yeah, it was. And
(26:02):
I think that's a good lesson for me to even
hear myself say, because it's not always the immediate thing.
It's not always like that single game that you're going
to win you need the championship, or you know, it's
not always that relationship or brand deal or whatever it
is that's in front of you that is going to
be the one that is the most pivotal. And so yeah,
I mean, if I really have to think about it,
(26:23):
what's yours? What's your answer to that?
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Clearly one was personally was my divorce and how I
really had to isolate and do a lot of work
to figure out who I was going to be more
moving forward, what I wanted. And I think it just
blew the fucking doors open to say, Okay, like you
need to sit by yourself and figure out who you.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Are, what you want and where you want to go.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
And then I would say the second part that really
changed my life and my career. I was like thirteen,
thirteen years old, and I had made this the national
team player pool camp and we used to train in
San Diego at the Olympic Training Center, and I remember
(27:15):
walking in and there was a US Anti doping book
on my on my chair and like, I'm not gonna lie,
Like I started doing drugs at a very young age,
not that they were performance enhancing drugs, but they were.
I was smoking weed and anything I could find I
(27:36):
just was numbing out. And I remember opening that book
and reading what they would test for, and sport was
supposed to be my way out for a better life.
And I remember just sitting there so fucking scared that
I just blew it before it started. And I had
(27:57):
a choice in that moment to fuck around with really
bad people that were only going to make me worse
and steal my light and my dreams.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
And I was like, what am I doing?
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Like I really need to reflect and figure out, like
is this worth it?
Speaker 2 (28:20):
And I made the decision and that was it. There
was no turning back.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
And I realize, like who I hang out with matters,
and I don't have to be a product of my
environment and I could want more. I started focusing. I
wasn't going to parties. Like it really shifted everything for me.
So that was that was like the start of really
pursuing like my hopes and dreams and it really changed.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
My life well, and realizing your own power to shape
and change your life. Right at thirteen, to know that
is oh that's early, Yeah, that's early.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
It's insane, And yeah I sure did. Fifteen, I played
in my first Youth World Cup and played with the
national team, committed, you know, verbally committed at fourteen to
the University of North Carolina, Like.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
It just I was on this pursuit of excellence and
nothing was going to get in my way. Yeah, it's
pretty powerful at that age.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
That's so powerful, and I feel like I, you know,
am similar in that. Something that I've learned in my
thirties now I'm in my mid thirties is that it's
also perfectly fine, but helpful to lose some of that
if it no longer serves you. It's helpful to, you know,
(29:48):
not play anymore and do things for you. It's helpful
to be able to go through a divorce, to be
able to change your move a city, whatever it is
that you want to do. I feel like, you know,
I constantly kind of hear myself saying to myself that
it's okay if it doesn't serve you anymore. That behavior
(30:08):
that have it, that belief system that's not for this
version of you, that's not for this time and space.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
This is wide open, and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
So much of your life's work has said I am
built this way, and I am beautiful, and I don't
fit the standards that used to be that we've tried
so hard.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
To be inclusive.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
I don't want to speak for you, but in this
world of ozembic and all of these things going on,
I am frightened.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
We're going right back.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
To the diet pill base, where everyone was doing anything
to be skinny and look away. They were very unhealthy,
and you know, media pushed this agenda that really hurt
a lot of women and young girls. And I'm personally
fearful of where we're going, but someone who lives it,
(31:15):
I'm curious of what you think. You know, where where
are we going in fashion and modeling and beauty.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
I think that it's a classic two steps forward, one
step back situation. I do think that when we look
back at this industry in terms of inclusion, you know,
twenty years from now, it will look like the stock market.
It will have gone up over time, but there will
be highs and lows along the way. And I think
(31:44):
that sure, we might be in a dip right now,
but we're still up here and not here because fifteen
years ago, we wouldn't have even been having this conversation
about like, uh, what's happened to the inclusion? Why are
we doing this? We just like subscribed and did what
we you know, we tried to do everything we could
to look like the way we were supposed to, which
(32:05):
was the beauty ideal. What's different about now and has
been for the last few years, is that we can
control more of the media we see. And I know
there's algorithms, and I know there are still, you know,
advertisements that we see a huge number of on a
day that we can't control. However, I think that we
would be remiss not to take advantage of that. You know,
(32:27):
we should all be really, really, really conscious about what
we're consuming, who we're consuming content from. Even if it
seems like a simple scroll on your phone, you know,
that's something that is really embedding an ideal into your head.
And so if someone makes you feel like shit, unfollow them.
(32:48):
Don't follow any brands because they tend to be the
purveyors of these standards. Follow divers voices, diverse bodies, diverse ideologies,
so that you can become desensitized to being told one
way how to live or or love or whatever it is.
But I think that we need to be really conscious
(33:10):
of the power that we do have to shape what
we consume.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Because it's like a twofold, like social media can be
so fucking toxic and such a hard place to live
in that world, and yet we do have so much reach,
which you experienced firsthand. You have this beautiful confidence that
so many young girls like.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
It is so contagious, Lauren, and I just.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
I wish more people saw that and showed that real
that realness, because it is like social media is so fake,
it just is no one knows anything. A picture can
say a million different things, and I think you've really
figured out the loophole to really move the needle in
(34:02):
a way that is important for young girls to see.
Do you feel that that sense of obligation now to
show up and really speak truth and this undeniable confidence
every single day through your platform or you just kind
of like, you know what this is me? You either
fucking subscribe to it or you don't keep a pushing.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
I mean both are great.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Both are Sometimes it's some days it's one, some days
it's the other. But I will say I hate social
media and so if this wasn't my job and I
wasn't finding purpose in the representation that I provide, I
would not be using it. And so yes, very conscious
about it. Sometimes it's like a naked picture of my
body unposed that like helps people normalize what bodies really
(34:50):
look like. Sometimes it's like an insane makeup look that
one of my queer makeup artist friends did for, you know,
a Pride show that I was in, and and even
that to me is representation in doing what you want
to do and being creative and surrounding yourself with community.
And so I definitely think about it because I mean,
(35:12):
you would not catch me on the internet if I
did not have a purpose like that. I would be
in the woods with dogs. Get me out of here.
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
I love it in the same way.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
I'm like this the same I'm like, I just want
to like shut everything out, live off the land and
a farm and just have like I'm.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Telling you, I'll pack ups.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
Yes, I want you there.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
I want goats, I want horses.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
I want chicken. Everyone's need chicken.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Yeah, I'm like what everyone asked me, you know, questions
all the time about like what's next and how is this?
Speaker 2 (35:48):
And I'm like, y'all, I just want peace and rest.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
It is uneasy to be be joyful and content. It
is it's women are not taught, and that is an option.
We really are not And so it is very physically
and mentally uncomfortable to just even a day of the
week that you're just being present and doing nothing and
(36:13):
being in your thoughts and you know, fostering relationships and
not you know, or maybe you're out in nature.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
It's hard, and sometimes you need the platform to understand purpose,
to understand your why. You know, it's like, yeah, this
life has given you a platform where people want to
listen and people want to learn and people want to
be better. And you just did it because you loved it.
(36:40):
But you don't realize by doing what you love, like
this now has such a bigger purpose and a bigger
meaning and I think it's so profound. I think it's
so special, and not a lot of people in life
get to unlock that access and you've done it so
beautifully and I want to say thank you because you've
you've really changed the landscape for a lot of young
(37:03):
girls who carry so much shame because of what media
tells them the way they should look, and you're you
disrupted that and like it's not small, It's like it's
so big and it's so pure and it's so beautiful
and I'm so grateful and I want Lauren, I had
(37:23):
I just have to tell you that, like, it's really
special and I don't even know you well, but I
want to support you and I want to be in
your your ecosystem because you make people better by showing
them exactly who you are.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Thanks. That means the world right back at you, obviously.
I mean, I'm just so floored. And yeah, I guess
I want to make sure that everything that I do
teaches women that you can live however you want to live.
You know, whether that's has to do with your appearance
or identity, or what you do for work, the space
(38:00):
you take up, do it the way that you want to.
You'll find the community that you're meant to find, and
you will feel like you're living your life.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
And last question because it totally matters. What w NBA
team do you support? Because I need to know.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
Okay, you know what we should do. The four of
us should go to a Liberty game. Done for done, Liberty,
Liberty pr got us court signed. Let's go.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Okay, double date.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
I have tickets to the Liberty if they are my
team too, Like I am obsessed with everything, Ellie.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
My children.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
Stallar fucking star literally.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
My kids all day all they talk about is when
are we going to see Ellie?
Speaker 2 (38:52):
I bring them to the game. Last week.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
We have to leave full hysterical meltdown that Ellie couldn't
come and have a sleep over. I had to, like,
I mean, people were like, oh, what is that mom
doing to that poor little child. I'm like, honey, there
are a lot of strings I can pull.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
This is not one of them. Mom can't bring Ellie.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
You're gonna have to get a maybe you can find
Ellie costume.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
So now for the next birthday, you know, I'm gonna
have to like borrow that costume and.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
Be like, We're doing our bachelorette party at the Liberty
Mercury game in a in a suite at the end
of the month, so kind of like an Ellie private call.
I guess, I don't know, but the is starting a team,
so I'm getting done. You're gonna be torn here, I'm
gonna be torn. But for now, card Owner, No, it's
(39:46):
gonna be great. But for now, we're Liberty. We're Liberty girls,
and I'm going to take you up on that. We're
going to have a double date and it's gonna be
so much fun and I can't wait.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
So thank you. So much, Lauren for coming on the show,
for being who you are.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
You're absolutely wonderful, You're fantastic, your magic and everyone always
says that about you. So I'm glad I got to
see it in person, and I am.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Right until next time, honey, Thanks for coming on Wide Open,
Thanks for having me. Bye, everyone, See you next week.
Speaker 4 (40:19):
Wide Open with Ashlin Harris is an iHeart women's sports production.
You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts. Our producers are Carmen
Borca Correo, Emily Maronov, and Lucy Jones. Production assistants from
Malia Aguidello. Our executive producers are Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan
(40:44):
and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Jenny Kaplan and Emily
Rudder and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris
Welcome back, everyone to another episode of Wide Open with
Ashlyn Harris. I am so excited to introduce our guests today.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Lauren Chan, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Thank you so much for having me. I'm about to
be wide open. I never thought I'd get to say
that to you, but here we are.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Here we are baby. The words is going.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
And for those of you who don't know Lauren, she's
not only an entrepreneur, but she is an unbelievable model.
And you fight for so much like inclusion in fashion,
which I just love women who are pushing the boundaries
of being the first. And I'm so grateful for the
(00:50):
work that you're doing.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
And you're the first.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Solo cover queer LGBTQ plus women on the freaking cover
of Sports Illustrated.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Like why I am the first solo lesbian on the cover? Okay,
I do have to clear up some lesbian drama I
kind of started.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Oh no, okay, tell me everything because I don't know this.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Some of the press said that I was the first
lesbian on the cover of Sports illus Traded Swimsuit issue,
which is amazing. It's close. But Megan Rappino and Sue
Bird were part of the twenty seven person Legends cover
in twenty twenty four, so they were the first lesbians
on the cover of the Sports Tales Traded Swimsuit issue.
I'm so happy to follow in their footsteps and be
the first solo solo.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Well you get to just add in the bitch it's
only me part no, Megan Sue. I did not no
no no, no no no.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
I said that they're like my best friends. They know,
but I'm saying solow cover.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
But what you.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Represented and that was so groundbreaking, and I imagine it
changed your life quite because it went everywhere, Lauren, like
everyone was talking about it, so I would think it
was a positive thing.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
But I also don't read all the comments.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
I wish I didn't read all the comments. I need
to learn a lesson from you. I'm a little bit
new to this, but I think that my life really
changed when I became a rookie in twenty twenty three,
which is one of their regular models. Because when I
did that, I also came out publicly. I wrote an
essay for Sports Illustrated, and I mean talk about a
(02:30):
life change. I had systems crumbling that were personal, identity,
relationship or public figure. Dum whatever you want to, you know,
suggest it probably changed in my life. And then I
think in the past two years, what's really happened is
I've come into myself. I know myself more. I can
(02:51):
stand Tanto's down on what I'm saying a little harder,
and I think that this is the perfect time to
have gotten the opportunity to have, like you're saying, the
bigger platform of the cover. It also goes hand in
hand with you, knows as I'm sure you experienced too,
these these internet keyboard warrior trolls, whatever you want to
(03:11):
call them. I actually was able to write an essay
for the issue this year because one of those trolls
really got my goat because they commented on one of
my swimsuit pictures and said, this makes zero sense. Who
are we even doing this for anymore women? And he
was genuinely befuddled that Sports Illustrated Swimsuit was not just
(03:35):
objectifying women for the male gaze. And so, like I said,
I've learned to kind of speak my mind over the
past few years, and I went in pretty hard on him,
which turned into an essay and the cover. So I
like to I like to make an example of a troll.
I like to fight back. You know, I'm really confident
in who I am and if it behooves me and
(03:56):
the community that you know, season cells represented in me,
I am always going to eat up a man on
the internet.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Oh, I live for that.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I wonder because what a lot of people don't know
about you is you grew up playing sports in Canada,
and like, as a retired professional athlete, there's so much
that sport taught me in terms of how I show
up in a world that feels pretty fucking cruel. I'll
be honest, Like it's hard out there now, and I
(04:27):
wonder if being raised and playing sports and playing basketball
and really being coachable and working hard, and people have
a lot of opinions like did you bring that into
the picture.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
To really just like own who you are?
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Well, first of all, it's like such an honor to
have you call that out in me, because I mean,
talk about a goat. I think that what we learn
in sports becomes part of personality. You know, it's not
even like I call in it, And I'm sure the
same way, it's not like you have to like bring
that side out of you. It's who you are in
(05:08):
so many ways, it's teamwork, it's coachability, it's it's greater good.
It's getting up when you lose, it's working your ass
off when no one's watching. It's all of the things
that make an athlete a great athlete, that make me,
I hope, a good leader and representative and person.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Really yeah, I mean it's and there's something and I'm
sure you know this, which if people don't know this,
one in every two young girls are dropping out of
sports by the age of fourteen because of body confidence issues,
And like, that's a really troublesome number for me.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
One in every two young girls.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Like sport gave me so much purpose and strength and
belonging and I could express myself in a way that
felt really important to my development. And to think now
that one in every two little girls are just being like,
my body's changing and I can't do this, and I
(06:17):
don't feel comfortable going to swim class and putting a
bathing suit on, and oh my god, I'm running, and
I'm hitting puberty, and my breasts are getting bigger and
I'm self conscious. Like all of these things are really
happening in real time, and the media has an obligation
to do something about it, because what we show them
(06:37):
in terms of beauty really affects whether they continue to
show up and play these sports. And I think you
and Alona are really doing such a brave thing that's
saying like, we're okay, Like my body is beautiful and
it looks like this, and it serves an insane reason
and purpose.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
And I don't feel bad about it either, should you.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
I think that in my former life as a fashion
editor and then plus size business founder, I really was
focused on that with regard to the workplace, and so
it makes sense that you're focused on it via sports.
I was, you know, in the corporate publishing world, and
so I was thinking about it in the workplace, and
there it holds up promotions, pay it makes the gap worse,
(07:22):
especially when you compound that with the fact that people
who are not white generally have larger bodies, et cetera,
et cetera. And I think the point perhaps of that
is that no matter which part of a woman's life
you look at, if we subscribe to this bullshit beauty
ideal and let it stop us from doing what we
want to do or what we can achieve, then we're
(07:44):
doing ourselves a huge disservice, and we're buying it the
system that was made up to keep us down. And
so I always try to use my voice to say, oh,
stop it. That is fake. It's made up. It's literally
put there so that you cannot have the life that
you want. And I don't any woman should believe in that,
(08:04):
no matter how old they are or what it is
that they're trying to do.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
I remember feeling so much shame.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
You know.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
I played for the US team and every.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Inch, every small percentage mattered to be great. And I
just remember doing all the body composition tests and I
would always like read into my BMIs and I would
like look and I'd be like, fuck, I just don't
look like a lot of like a Tobin Heath or
(08:34):
you know, a Megan Rapino, and it's like it's it's
really hard. It was like the worst part of everything
for me is that yearly test where we would get
our body.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Like and everything was scanned, and I was like, fuck,
here we go again.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
It would really pick me apart for like a while,
and I was obsessive about it.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
The theme is vulnerability, and so to have me sitting
here and when listening, sitting here and hearing Ashlyn Harris
say that, yeah, this got to me. I'm a fucking
champion of everything you can win and this gets me down,
makes it relatable. It makes everybody, from somebody like me
(09:15):
who doesn't never play professional sports, to a young preteen
girl to maybe people who don't even have anything to
do with sports, be able to hear that vulnerability and
still push through in their lives and lead with that.
And that's what I try to do with my representation
with my physical body and my physical being as a
model is always say hey, this is what's real, this
(09:38):
is what I'm really feeling, this is how I really am,
And if you don't like it, there's the door. There's
a literal door, you know. I always want to be
creating community and being in space and having conversations around
that kind of subject around vulnerability and reality and progress
(10:01):
and breaking down the beauty ideal and having women feel
more powerful than the world wants them to.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
I'm really curious of where this pivot came in terms
of you know, you played sports, you played basketball. I
read that you had a really bad medical incident where
you were in the hospital for a month, and you
did you have to put sports behind you, and that
started the fashion and modeling, like, tell.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Me what happened.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Yeah, So I played basketball my whole life. Twist, being
really good at basketball makes you a really good lesbian.
I mean, the evidence is there, it's there, it's there,
it's there. And I went to I was playing on
a scholarship at my university in Canada, and then after
(10:54):
my first year, my appendix ruptured and because they kind
of didn't know what was going on, the surgery was
I mean like really invasive emergency, not laparoscopic or cleanly done,
and so I think at my lung had collapsed, they
cut through my bowels. My blood was septic, so there
(11:14):
was a lot of stuff that had gone wrong, and
the recovery was a long time, and beyond being in
the hospital, the physical recovery was at least half a
year after that, and I just never went back. And
so that's when I started writing and pursuing other interests.
I will say I felt allowed to pursue other interests
(11:34):
because basketball was quote unquote taken away from me. I
wonder what you're like, But for me and for a
lot of like the athletes that I was around at
the time, we could kind of do anything we were
told to until the end of the earth. And so
I don't know whether I would have quit. I have,
you know, teammates from my Ontario team and state teams
and whatever that have gone to the WNBA, and so
(11:57):
maybe I would have tried to do that and just
never never done anything else.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
It's true when they say one door closes, another door opens.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Most people who aren't you know, top tier athletes in
the world fall off a cliff when it comes to
sports after high school or college, like me, and you
have you go from having this place to be physically
competitive and in a team and working with authority and
battling and pushing your body who like, going into a
(12:28):
corporate job, and it's a hard transition. I mean, to me,
the former sounds like so much better of a life
experience to be having. And so I think that I
took a lot of that personality and brought it to
my job at the time in publishing. And I always,
(12:50):
you know, love to be a leader and do things
differently and make a difference, help the team, and and
so perhaps you know, I mean, you're really make me
think perhaps it was a lot of that in my
personality that helped me be different and be okay with
going against the grain and publishing. I will say I
had the most amazing team at Glamour, and so I
(13:13):
was really enabled to speak to the every woman. I
think at the time Glamour reached one in eight American women,
And it gave me the platform to be that real
communicator and be vulnerable and connect community around specifically plus
sized fashion there and so yeah, I'm so grateful for
my time there. It taught me. It taught me so much,
(13:35):
namely that leading with vulnerability is actually a great career move.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
This is wide open, and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
In sport, you're so often taught to like do what's
best for the team, and you have this tunnel vision
and it doesn't allow you to expand and take risk
in a way because everything is so structured. Right, It's like,
this is the game plan and this is what you're doing,
and these are your teammates and every week your role
might change. And now that I don't have to fall
(14:25):
in line and order, it's such a beautiful process of
letting go where that's so interesting and I do think
it's such a beautiful thing. And I got that way
later in life. And it's like you like you almost
are in this blurred vision and you shake and everything
becomes so clear.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
You need a new job as a therapist.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Well I know, but like we've both been through it, right,
We went through divorce and we've gone through such heartache.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
And I'm curious, like, how did you come to know?
How did you like go on this.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Exploration of like who you really are and finding out
your sexuality because it was later in life, and I
talked to Sophia all the time about this and it's like, wow,
there was so many signs, but it was almost like
I don't know if I had this space and bravery
to just like follow.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
My gut and my intuition. And I'm curious. You know,
I've been kind of gay all my life.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
I just I don't know what it's like to change
that later in life, and I'm curious of how that
becoming happened with you.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
You're gonna make me cry. I think Sophia and I
should talk about this. I would I mean talk about crying.
It would be so cathartic. Yeah, but I think that
I could have gone my whole life doing what I
was supposed to do because I'm good at it, like
I'm good at what. It's like a snaking eat stale.
(16:06):
I kind of only do things that I know i'll
be good at. But then I'm really good at the
things that I do, and I just keep doing that
because it's checking the boxes. Yep. Dream job by then, married,
by then, started a company, by then, sold a company
by then, And I probably would have kept doing that
because I thought I was getting enough out of it
(16:28):
for me. And then COVID hit and everything that I
oriented my life around got taken away. And so once
I kind of saved my business, that took about a
year to just I mean, I remember applying for furlough
and all this stuff anyhow not to go back there.
PTSD was, But after that there was not much going on.
(16:52):
I couldn't go to an office, I couldn't go to events,
I couldn't start a community thing. I you know, was
at home by myself, and I really dove into things therapy,
and I think that's where I really learned that the
systems you believe in and subscribe to are made up.
And I don't mean to say that in like a
funny way or a dramatic way they are And in
(17:16):
the past two years, queer people have really taught me
that you can choose how you want your life to
look full stop. And I also think I realized that
I never ever learned how to know myself. I never
slowed down, I never sat with my thoughts. I never
considered what my life would look like if no one
(17:39):
else ever told me to do anything. And then I
was on Women Loving Women TikTok, and it was like
a bitch, you're gay, and I would be like ah
and scirl and I'd be like, nope, you're going to
watch this, and I just it was a slow burn.
It took at least a year to come out to
myself and my partner at the time, my ex husband,
(18:03):
and then another year to kind of really be well,
I guess what I present to the world now. And
so yeah, I was thirty two, went through divorce. It
was so sad and so hard. Yeah, I believe a
lot in speaking about it, because I don't believe in
the stigma of divorce again, think that, you know, forcing
(18:24):
women to be stuck in marriages and not choose themselves
whether they have children or not. Perhaps especially if they
do in order to set a good example. I just
don't believe in sticking to those those old tropes. I mean,
it's archatic at this point. And everybody I know that
is divorced is happier, healthier, chose something for themselves, you know,
(18:46):
built a life that they built from a time in
their life when they knew themselves better, had more money,
had more success, and access, was feeling less of a
void what have you.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
It's beautiful, though, and you can see it, like you're
so radiant, and you know, I've seen pictures of you
and your partner, and it's just you move differently when
you choose yourself, when you choose joy, and you are
brave enough to say the hard things. It's like it's
really liberating, and you can see it, and I think
(19:18):
it's really beautiful. I haven't met your partner, but I've
heard nothing but fantastic things.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Really, And.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Was this your first like experience with women? Oh my god,
I'm obsessed. You and Sophia really need to like hang
out and say all of the things.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
I know I well, I had mentioned to you. I
saw her a few times during Pride, and one of
the things was her dinner, and so everyone was kind of,
you know, having a moment with her. But at the bar,
I was like, our stories are really similar, and I
just want to say thank you for putting it out
there because it really helps. It really really helps to
know that you're not alone. But yeah, Haley's the best.
(19:57):
I mean, she was the self that soothed every thing
about starting over. She brings like joy and hilarity and
love and connection to every single moment of every single day.
And I often sit around and think like, Wow, this
was really hard fought, but it was worth every every second.
(20:17):
And now I take the little things for granted and
I'll have to go wow, I used to not be
able to. This is so silly. But I have a
hat with a pin that says mean dyke on it,
and I remember I love it so much. I wear
I wear it out, I wear it to the park,
I wear it wherever. And I remember being so trapped
by not even being able to identify in any small
(20:40):
way as queer because I make it's safeer appropriate, or
the thing to do, or if I would hurt somebody,
and something as little as buying that pin and wearing
it is like it glazes right over me. But wow,
what a difference.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Oh my gosh, I love this. I like it was
so funny that I'll get you one, please please. It's
I was saying this to Sophie we had.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
We had dinner with a bunch of her friends last night,
and everyone we do like at our dinners, we always
like to like say words of affirmation and well wishous
to people, And I just like to sit at the
table and hear everyone speak about her joy and her
light and how it's changed and how making like hard
(21:25):
book brave decisions, Like she's a totally different human and
I think it's so profound and so special to really
find your person later in life.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
I know her step really and you step really. I've
never seen you together, but I mean, what a matchmate
in heaven.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
It's so y'all seem so yeah, joyful and resistant and
deep and exemplary and open and really like inspiring in anyway.
Is not just because you're you know, an actress and
(22:05):
a soccer star. Because of who you are and that
I feel like is leading with lately and it's just
so so so nice.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Witness, thank you, You're so so sweet. But I will
say this because I struggled with this. You think I've
been out for a long time. I actually didn't come
out till twenty nineteen because I was I've been you know,
like doing this for a while, but I was so
scared to lose sponsors. I was scared to lose my job.
(22:36):
I was scared. I was just so scared that it
would be distracting to the team and to the fans
and all these things.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
You know, you had said playing sports was about falling
in line in the team and not being able to
do what you wanted. And now you feel brave, and
so that makes that connection makes sense to me. Did
you how do you feel on the how did you
feel immediately on the other side, I really helped, totally real.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Everyone was so kind, the sponsors were so nice. I
didn't lose anything. I actually just gained like a lot
in myself. The courage of walking around and holding hands
and doing all these things like that was really important too,
because I, you know, there it was so conflicting as
(23:25):
someone who's so outspoken about mental health and you know,
showing up exactly who you are. But like part of me,
like half of half of myself, was missing. But I
am curious when you finally wrote what you wrote to
come out and sports illustrated, how how did people receive
that from you?
Speaker 3 (23:46):
I feel the same way. I feel like if I
lost anything, I maybe don't really know about it, like
perhaps there was some work thing on the table that
didn't come to fruition. I lost followers that I never
even knew were there. But everything that I gained I
would pay my everything I have for. But I think
(24:07):
for people like us who were talking about it, I mean,
in the context of your initial question, which is sponsorship,
that's a question of alignment and leading with who you are,
whether that's queer, whether that's just showing your personality. Like
I'm trying to be all myself and talk my shit
and be funny on the Internet. And if I lose
some from you know, brands and that I work with
(24:28):
because of that, then I'll get new ones that better
aligned with me. And I think that there are so
many amazing folks on the Internet, specifically queer creators who
have like helped teach me that, and so no, I
think that everything that we gain will be more aligned
and even if it's like perhaps less, it's better.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Yeah, Yeah, that part. That's an important piece.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
And I like, I always ask this question, what was
the moment that split you wide open, that like changed
it all for you, whether it was personal or professional.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
That really like that was it.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
That's one thing I can clock that shifted the perspective
of everything.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Okay, I'm going to try not to make a joke here, please,
but no, I mean, well, I think it was. I
think it was going to therapy. And I that was
a slow answer because it was a decision that I
made years prior to realizing that I was gay and
(25:39):
being able to come out and deal with that in therapy.
But I had started, you know, years before with regard
to owning a business and how to deal with that,
and so I think that decision is really the one
that opened myself up to myself and then stot me
wide open to the world. Yeah, yeah, it was. And
(26:02):
I think that's a good lesson for me to even
hear myself say, because it's not always the immediate thing.
It's not always like that single game that you're going
to win you need the championship, or you know, it's
not always that relationship or brand deal or whatever it
is that's in front of you that is going to
be the one that is the most pivotal. And so yeah,
I mean, if I really have to think about it,
(26:23):
what's yours? What's your answer to that?
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Clearly one was personally was my divorce and how I
really had to isolate and do a lot of work
to figure out who I was going to be more
moving forward, what I wanted. And I think it just
blew the fucking doors open to say, Okay, like you
need to sit by yourself and figure out who you.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Are, what you want and where you want to go.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
And then I would say the second part that really
changed my life and my career. I was like thirteen,
thirteen years old, and I had made this the national
team player pool camp and we used to train in
San Diego at the Olympic Training Center, and I remember
(27:15):
walking in and there was a US Anti doping book
on my on my chair and like, I'm not gonna lie,
Like I started doing drugs at a very young age,
not that they were performance enhancing drugs, but they were.
I was smoking weed and anything I could find I
(27:36):
just was numbing out. And I remember opening that book
and reading what they would test for, and sport was
supposed to be my way out for a better life.
And I remember just sitting there so fucking scared that
I just blew it before it started. And I had
(27:57):
a choice in that moment to fuck around with really
bad people that were only going to make me worse
and steal my light and my dreams.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
And I was like, what am I doing?
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Like I really need to reflect and figure out, like
is this worth it?
Speaker 2 (28:20):
And I made the decision and that was it. There
was no turning back.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
And I realize, like who I hang out with matters,
and I don't have to be a product of my
environment and I could want more. I started focusing. I
wasn't going to parties. Like it really shifted everything for me.
So that was that was like the start of really
pursuing like my hopes and dreams and it really changed.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
My life well, and realizing your own power to shape
and change your life. Right at thirteen, to know that
is oh that's early, Yeah, that's early.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
It's insane, And yeah I sure did. Fifteen, I played
in my first Youth World Cup and played with the
national team, committed, you know, verbally committed at fourteen to
the University of North Carolina, Like.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
It just I was on this pursuit of excellence and
nothing was going to get in my way. Yeah, it's
pretty powerful at that age.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
That's so powerful, and I feel like I, you know,
am similar in that. Something that I've learned in my
thirties now I'm in my mid thirties is that it's
also perfectly fine, but helpful to lose some of that
if it no longer serves you. It's helpful to, you know,
(29:48):
not play anymore and do things for you. It's helpful
to be able to go through a divorce, to be
able to change your move a city, whatever it is
that you want to do. I feel like, you know,
I constantly kind of hear myself saying to myself that
it's okay if it doesn't serve you anymore. That behavior
(30:08):
that have it, that belief system that's not for this
version of you, that's not for this time and space.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
This is wide open, and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
So much of your life's work has said I am
built this way, and I am beautiful, and I don't
fit the standards that used to be that we've tried
so hard.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
To be inclusive.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
I don't want to speak for you, but in this
world of ozembic and all of these things going on,
I am frightened.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
We're going right back.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
To the diet pill base, where everyone was doing anything
to be skinny and look away. They were very unhealthy,
and you know, media pushed this agenda that really hurt
a lot of women and young girls. And I'm personally
fearful of where we're going, but someone who lives it,
(31:15):
I'm curious of what you think. You know, where where
are we going in fashion and modeling and beauty.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
I think that it's a classic two steps forward, one
step back situation. I do think that when we look
back at this industry in terms of inclusion, you know,
twenty years from now, it will look like the stock market.
It will have gone up over time, but there will
be highs and lows along the way. And I think
(31:44):
that sure, we might be in a dip right now,
but we're still up here and not here because fifteen
years ago, we wouldn't have even been having this conversation
about like, uh, what's happened to the inclusion? Why are
we doing this? We just like subscribed and did what
we you know, we tried to do everything we could
to look like the way we were supposed to, which
(32:05):
was the beauty ideal. What's different about now and has
been for the last few years, is that we can
control more of the media we see. And I know
there's algorithms, and I know there are still, you know,
advertisements that we see a huge number of on a
day that we can't control. However, I think that we
would be remiss not to take advantage of that. You know,
(32:27):
we should all be really, really, really conscious about what
we're consuming, who we're consuming content from. Even if it
seems like a simple scroll on your phone, you know,
that's something that is really embedding an ideal into your head.
And so if someone makes you feel like shit, unfollow them.
(32:48):
Don't follow any brands because they tend to be the
purveyors of these standards. Follow divers voices, diverse bodies, diverse ideologies,
so that you can become desensitized to being told one
way how to live or or love or whatever it is.
But I think that we need to be really conscious
(33:10):
of the power that we do have to shape what
we consume.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Because it's like a twofold, like social media can be
so fucking toxic and such a hard place to live
in that world, and yet we do have so much reach,
which you experienced firsthand. You have this beautiful confidence that
so many young girls like.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
It is so contagious, Lauren, and I just.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
I wish more people saw that and showed that real
that realness, because it is like social media is so fake,
it just is no one knows anything. A picture can
say a million different things, and I think you've really
figured out the loophole to really move the needle in
(34:02):
a way that is important for young girls to see.
Do you feel that that sense of obligation now to
show up and really speak truth and this undeniable confidence
every single day through your platform or you just kind
of like, you know what this is me? You either
fucking subscribe to it or you don't keep a pushing.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
I mean both are great.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Both are Sometimes it's some days it's one, some days
it's the other. But I will say I hate social
media and so if this wasn't my job and I
wasn't finding purpose in the representation that I provide, I
would not be using it. And so yes, very conscious
about it. Sometimes it's like a naked picture of my
body unposed that like helps people normalize what bodies really
(34:50):
look like. Sometimes it's like an insane makeup look that
one of my queer makeup artist friends did for, you know,
a Pride show that I was in, and and even
that to me is representation in doing what you want
to do and being creative and surrounding yourself with community.
And so I definitely think about it because I mean,
(35:12):
you would not catch me on the internet if I
did not have a purpose like that. I would be
in the woods with dogs. Get me out of here.
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
I love it in the same way.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
I'm like this the same I'm like, I just want
to like shut everything out, live off the land and
a farm and just have like I'm.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Telling you, I'll pack ups.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
Yes, I want you there.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
I want goats, I want horses.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
I want chicken. Everyone's need chicken.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Yeah, I'm like what everyone asked me, you know, questions
all the time about like what's next and how is this?
Speaker 2 (35:48):
And I'm like, y'all, I just want peace and rest.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
It is uneasy to be be joyful and content. It
is it's women are not taught, and that is an option.
We really are not And so it is very physically
and mentally uncomfortable to just even a day of the
week that you're just being present and doing nothing and
(36:13):
being in your thoughts and you know, fostering relationships and
not you know, or maybe you're out in nature.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
It's hard, and sometimes you need the platform to understand purpose,
to understand your why. You know, it's like, yeah, this
life has given you a platform where people want to
listen and people want to learn and people want to
be better. And you just did it because you loved it.
(36:40):
But you don't realize by doing what you love, like
this now has such a bigger purpose and a bigger
meaning and I think it's so profound. I think it's
so special, and not a lot of people in life
get to unlock that access and you've done it so
beautifully and I want to say thank you because you've
you've really changed the landscape for a lot of young
(37:03):
girls who carry so much shame because of what media
tells them the way they should look, and you're you
disrupted that and like it's not small, It's like it's
so big and it's so pure and it's so beautiful
and I'm so grateful and I want Lauren, I had
(37:23):
I just have to tell you that, like, it's really
special and I don't even know you well, but I
want to support you and I want to be in
your your ecosystem because you make people better by showing
them exactly who you are.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Thanks. That means the world right back at you, obviously.
I mean, I'm just so floored. And yeah, I guess
I want to make sure that everything that I do
teaches women that you can live however you want to live.
You know, whether that's has to do with your appearance
or identity, or what you do for work, the space
(38:00):
you take up, do it the way that you want to.
You'll find the community that you're meant to find, and
you will feel like you're living your life.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
And last question because it totally matters. What w NBA
team do you support? Because I need to know.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
Okay, you know what we should do. The four of
us should go to a Liberty game. Done for done, Liberty,
Liberty pr got us court signed. Let's go.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Okay, double date.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
I have tickets to the Liberty if they are my
team too, Like I am obsessed with everything, Ellie.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
My children.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
Stallar fucking star literally.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
My kids all day all they talk about is when
are we going to see Ellie?
Speaker 2 (38:52):
I bring them to the game. Last week.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
We have to leave full hysterical meltdown that Ellie couldn't
come and have a sleep over. I had to, like,
I mean, people were like, oh, what is that mom
doing to that poor little child. I'm like, honey, there
are a lot of strings I can pull.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
This is not one of them. Mom can't bring Ellie.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
You're gonna have to get a maybe you can find
Ellie costume.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
So now for the next birthday, you know, I'm gonna
have to like borrow that costume and.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
Be like, We're doing our bachelorette party at the Liberty
Mercury game in a in a suite at the end
of the month, so kind of like an Ellie private call.
I guess, I don't know, but the is starting a team,
so I'm getting done. You're gonna be torn here, I'm
gonna be torn. But for now, card Owner, No, it's
(39:46):
gonna be great. But for now, we're Liberty. We're Liberty girls,
and I'm going to take you up on that. We're
going to have a double date and it's gonna be
so much fun and I can't wait.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
So thank you. So much, Lauren for coming on the show,
for being who you are.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
You're absolutely wonderful, You're fantastic, your magic and everyone always
says that about you. So I'm glad I got to
see it in person, and I am.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Right until next time, honey, Thanks for coming on Wide Open,
Thanks for having me. Bye, everyone, See you next week.
Speaker 4 (40:19):
Wide Open with Ashlin Harris is an iHeart women's sports production.
You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts. Our producers are Carmen
Borca Correo, Emily Maronov, and Lucy Jones. Production assistants from
Malia Aguidello. Our executive producers are Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan
(40:44):
and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Jenny Kaplan and Emily
Rudder and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris
Host
Ashlyn Harris
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