August 11, 2025 • 52 mins
Ashlyn gets real with Marion Jones: Olympian, Tarheel, and one-time fastest woman on Earth. Marion takes Ashlyn back in time, to when she spent 49 days in solitary confinement and finally realized what she needed to tell the world. They talk through the regrets, guilt, and tears that paved the way for change– from tabloids to jail, fairweather friends to mothering when the world wants to write your story for you.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Wide
Open with Ashland Harris. Today, I can't wait to introduce
our guest, Marion Jones. Welcome to the podcast. You uh,
(00:21):
one of my favorite humans. We caught up maybe what
was it two weeks ago, had such a great conversation
and we both went to the University of North Carolina.
You played hoops, yeah, and have have always been an
incredible track star. And now you're out, You're back on
the grind. You were on Special Forces.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Yeah, thank you, Ashland. It has it has been an
incredible ride. To say it lightly, but it's always a
pleasure when I get an opportunity to to share and
talk with folks whom one like we have a a
special bond and that we made a decision to attend
(01:03):
the best university in the land. So that there's that,
so you know, we're very very smart individuals. But in
addition to that, Ashlynd like getting a chance to share
what I who I am with somebody whom I respect
at another level makes it even more enjoyable, and it
(01:24):
also makes the journey, which we know like can be
a challenging one when there are hiccups along the road.
And to be able to communicate with somebody who understands
that and can help, like the world sip through it
all makes it even better. So I'm just excited to
hop into all things.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Oh thank you, thank you for that.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
And what I'll say is, you know, I Marion co
hosts a podcast called Second Wind, and I was lucky
enough to be on it and kind of kind of
share a little bit of my story and a lot
of it was centered around me. But what I love
so much about you is your bravery to stand in
(02:08):
the pain and talk about it and share your scars
and you know, come forward with your truth in a
lot of different ways and a lot of aspect like
that's there's so much courage.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
And bravery in it. And you know, anyone who.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Knows your story, knows what you've had to walk through.
That's like a huge testament to your character. And I'm
grateful for you to do that because it is not easy,
and it is not easy by any means. And now
to come out and stand in your truth and come
(02:43):
out as being a queer woman, I just think there's
so much beauty in showing the world that no matter
what age you are, we get second chances at life,
and it's it's our job to take them and be
resilient and show up up.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, no, no doubt. Like it's almost I almost find
that it's a we all. We have a certain sense
of responsibility when we have, in essence, been given the
baton no pun intended.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Or or the torch in regards.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
To like someone some being felt that we would be
in a position when we are in on this planet
to have.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
A big voice, to have a big.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Presence, right, So I find that it's almost our responsibility
to once things happen in our life, good, bad and
everything in between, that you don't disappear that you stand
in it, even sometimes if it's funky, you standing in
your shit, right, And for for folks like myself and
(03:56):
you and others, for us to just like say, you
know what, I'm just gonna just be in my little
world here, right, and I'm not gonna share my experiences
and the good and the bad with anybody else because one,
maybe it's too painful, Maybe I don't want to be embarrassed.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Maybe it's it's going to be costly, right, Like it's
gonna be a financial hit to me.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
That's all A bunch of like crap. But I've also
Ashland had to grow into it, right, Like I would
tell you, yeah, at twenty one years old when the
shit was hitting the fan, right, like, I was not
in this space. Ho no to not to share all
my stuff, like we can get into some of the
(04:38):
nitty gritty ashen but like when I was released from
federal prison, right and like really unsure of what the
future held.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
I knew that.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
I had a passion for sport, Like, you know, I
wanted to be competitive somehow. I was still fairly young,
but what would that look like in the world of sport?
So you know, I wanted to try my hand in basketball,
and I did that and I made a WABA team, the.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
Oldest rookie ever to do that.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
That kind of fizzled out for a little bit and
then I'm like, well, well, who else are you marrying?
Speaker 4 (05:18):
Because for so much of our lives, and I include union, yes,
our sport was who we are? Who are you married?
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (05:25):
I'm an athlete? Who are you Ashley?
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Oh you're a rock soccer soccer player?
Speaker 4 (05:30):
And beyond that, like I was just like like.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Who the who am I? Yeah? Who are we? How
do we show up, how do we move in the world?
Speaker 4 (05:39):
Sport? And it bled into everything, It bled into relationships,
it bled into like and so I I'm actually so grateful.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
And I know I'm just kind of going all over
the place here, but I'm just I'm grateful for the
times that I was forced to spend with my shit,
with myself. And that happened to be incarceration, right, forty
nine days in solitary confinement, whereby I had to say,
all right, like pump the brakes, Marian, you are so
(06:15):
much more than what the world thinks you are, Okay?
Was I blessed Ashland to be able to run from
here to there very fast?
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Was I blessed woman on the planet? Babe?
Speaker 4 (06:26):
Right? Or it's to stand a wall and right or
writ the layup or whatever, But that's not who you are.
That's what you do do.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Right, And you and you married, And I'm talking about
myself for a second, and the third person, I don't
always do that.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
It you You were so much more than that. Like
my mom is a is a was is is a rock.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Star human right. She made the decision when she was young.
She was pregnant with my older brother. I have one sibling.
He's one year he's five years older than me. And
she made the decision when she she's from a small
country in Central America by the name of Billize, and
she became pregnant with my brother, with my brother, and
she made a decision. You know what, My current situation
(07:10):
is not one that I want for myself anymore, nor
my babies. So I am gonna make that trek and
get up to the States to try and provide a
better life for them. And in my darkest moments, ashlynd
And they were dark, right, I spent I told you
forty nine days locked up, right, twenty three out of
(07:32):
twenty four days unable to go outside. And sometimes because
of where I was incarcerated here in Texas, some of
the guards didn't even want to take me out for
the one hour of wreck time because it was sold.
And in those moments from like would Mary, would this
be what Marion lois? That's my mom's name, Marian. Also
(07:55):
I used to call her big Marion me little Marian.
Now it's the other way around. Is this what Marion
Loy's envision for her babies?
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Is?
Speaker 2 (08:06):
This?
Speaker 4 (08:07):
Is this what and who I am? Right?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Is this like the products of all of the sacrifices
that she made. Yeah, And once I put it in
that perspective, I'm like, well, hell to the no, it's
not did I Did I make some poor decisions?
Speaker 4 (08:26):
Did we go a little bit off track?
Speaker 2 (08:28):
But that's not going to define that's not going to
define me, and I refuse to allow it.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
To define me. Right, And so that is when the
growth like started. And I don't know, honestly, Ashlynd, I
don't know if without having that quiet time, even though
it was forced upon me right.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
To just sit with myself, if I would have come
to that real that that moment that.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
I am not what I do?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Yes, yes, and so and so when I say that
I'm grateful for it all, that's what I mean.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
And when I say I mean, are there regrets? Sure? Whatever? Whatever,
right you know, are there moments? But man, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
I'm gonna tell you because I am not the woman
that I am today. I mean, you hear it all
the time from people who have perseveres and who are
so resilient. You hear it from them all the time.
I'm not the person who I am today. If I
hadn't gone through my.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Sky yes, yes, I agree.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
I we we speak the same language. And I'll say
this for those of you who are listening or watching
and who who don't know the background of Marion, I
mean she was. You're You're the trailblazer on and off
the field. You're a phenom. I mean, how many people
(09:54):
can literally say, oh, I went to the University of
North Carolina, played basketball one national championship and became one
of the most like fastest women on the planet. And Sydney,
you know you in two thousand and you won five
medals and you just you were the first black female
(10:15):
athlete on the cover of Vogue, Like you were everywhere,
like it was insane. And then what happened was, you know,
I don't want to speak for you as you live.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
This is there.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
This is when performance enhancement drugs started really hitting the scene.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
And like, you know, I am younger than you, and.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
I understand what you sacrifice at all costs to be
the greatest.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
I smiled.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Now, there was a time, Ashley, when I would cringe
when people would like make comments or you know, I
there was a lot of disappointment in all of it
with me, Like I dealt with the familial disappoint like
disappointing my family and like my close people, and that
(11:04):
is that is actually a constant that I struggle with
and that I.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
Deal with often still.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
But this idea that in the past when people would
come in and they would say certain things about my
legacy and my career and all that, and it would
just get under my skin and eat me up, and
I just kind of have to like swallow my words.
And now I'm at a point where like cool, like
what were you doing when you were twenty eighteen, nineteen
(11:31):
twenty three, Like did you have a microscope on you?
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Were?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
You're getting paid millions of dollars and everybody in your
circle were patting you on the back and they were
your yes people, And you know, I'm people listening.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
To that, They're like, well, what is that?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
These are people who are around you because and they
tell you yes to everything.
Speaker 4 (11:51):
Yes, you're awesome, Yes you're beautiful. Yes that's the right decision, right.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
And if you're around that and long enough, you start
to like it and you start to say, you know what,
I have the resources and the power to only surround
those people with me and people who are going to
give it to me straight, like my mama, like my
close friends, I'm going to distance myself from them because
I don't have to hear them telling me that I'm
(12:15):
not great or beautiful, right, And that's what happens. And
so I just smile now when when you know people
will comment because that stuff now is.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
We think differently.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
We meeting elite right, like thinkers, elite musicians, elite athletes.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
We think differently, and that people can come at us
all they.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Want, and they don't understand how when you get to
a certain level of maturity in your growth, Like.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
We use that shit as fuel fuel.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Right, Like I'm training right now, ashlond for for a triathlone,
don't triathl don't ask me how I get myself into
this stuff.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
But because we're used to pain, what comfort and the
suffering girl and so.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Mean, this idea of fuel is in my everyday vocabulary
because triathletes they talk about fueling them, fueling their workouts NonStop.
But I like to laugh, like I love the critics now,
like it's like, yes, come at me, come at me
right now, so that just for a moment, I can
(13:23):
turn that dang mirror around and say, okay, well, tell
me about tell me about your twenties to thirties, right,
tell me about your thirties, so for me, tell me
about your childhood? Right, and and are you able to
now stand in it all and share with the world
with the hopes of making helping people realize that they
don't have to stay stuck there Ashley, That's where I'm
(13:44):
at right now.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
The mantra is what you don't have to stay stuck
in your stuff. You don't have to. When you do,
you're making a decision to stay there. You don't have to.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
There are resources, there are tools, things that you can learn.
Your failure in life doesn't have to stay there.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Forever, right, And that's where the power lies, no doubt.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
And then and then the last thing that I share
is like, we all have setbacks, right, how can you
use it as a catalyst, right for your biggest comeback?
And they're like, no, I don't know. I was like, hey, here,
just just follow my journey.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
If you if you need a living.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Example, right, like, log into this damn podcast, follow Action's career, like,
like you know, follow Marion on Instagram.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
Whatever. If you're looking for it, it's.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Out there out there.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
You just gotta like and we're humanizing it though, Like
that's the problem, is humanizing it.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
Stay tuned, we'll be right back after this. I want
to I want to.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
I want to talk about the price of greatness that
people don't know. Right, So people always think I want
to be rich, I want to be powerful. It's the
American mentality, right, But people don't understand the toll it
takes on being the one.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
People don't understand the pressure to perform at all fucking costs.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
People don't know the difference, like you know, ambition, expectation,
like what is right?
Speaker 3 (15:25):
What is wrong?
Speaker 2 (15:26):
It's it's you throw you throw in that in that
pot of goodness that you just shared. You know, the
pressures of being a woman of color, right, yea, the
pressure of being a queer woman before I was even
comfortable with sharing with the world and for fear right,
that is going to negatively impact me financially.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
And whatever else.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
And that I've found and I've been able to identify
now Ashlyn as I'm about to turn fifty this year,
which is mind blowing. Like we celebrated a few years back,
we celebrated thirty years from.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
The time we won the national champion, Like.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
It's crazy. That is crazy, right, it is crazy crazy.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Maybe it's crazy because you know, every year during March
Madness they show the shot that we won, so it's
kind of constantly relieved. Yeah, but that's insane. But I
find now I can put a word to it. It
is a very lonely, lonely journey. People like I want
to be a success, like you said, I want to
(16:31):
be rich. I want to be on the cover of.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
This, on the on the let me.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
People are not ready.
Speaker 4 (16:37):
Many people are not ready that I mean you you
think you see like special social especially with social media,
you only see the beautiful, the nice.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Good, the highlights, what we call the highlights.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
People don't know that ninety nine I'm gonna throw a
number too. In ninety nine point eight percent of the time,
it is a dark place to get there. You see success,
you see the gold medals. You know you don't You
don't know that. I struggle with stuff growing up in
terms of a parent whome turned their back on my fam,
(17:13):
my mom and I right, and and although I wanted
to be a part of his life and him see
my successes and.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
All that, he chose not to.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
To the point I get to Carolina. Let me tell
you a quick story that it always about. I get
to Carolina and we win. We win the national championship
my freshman year. My sophomore year, we make it to
the sweet sixteen. So we have to fly out to
my hometown in Los Angeles. And I were playing Stanford
(17:44):
and we're down at halftime.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
We're just struggling, and I run to the locker room.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
But before I get there, I look into the fans
and I see my father. Now I hadn't seen my
father in maybe five or six years. He had cut
off all communication with me, et cetera. And I see
him right, but I'm running into the locker room, and
it almost it makes me excite, Like you know, at
that point, I'm really wanting his approval. Right, Look what
(18:12):
I've been doing, Dad, right, Like I'm doing something.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
It's big, it's great.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
And he just never responded in high school and on
all that. And I see his face Ashlyn and I
and he kind of pumps me up, like.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
Well we wound up.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Was still losing to Stanford, and that's emotional and everything.
And I come out and my mom had driven by
that point, she had moved to North Carolina, right, So
she was there and I came out mainly because I
just wanted to see him, man, I wanted to like
hug him, and he was gone, like I couldn't never,
I could never find him. And that was actually the
last time that I saw him because after I won
(18:50):
in the Olympics, a number of years later thousand, two
thousand and one, I get.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
A call that my dad had passed, that my father
had passed away.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Right, And so people don't know in all of those moments,
all of those awards and celebrations, and like how hard
it was not to know why.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
He made certain choices and we all do right, like
especially now that we all got different reasons why we
do stuff, and the idea of not having any of
those questions answered now forever.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Yeah, it's hard.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
It does something to someone, you know, it's hard not
I don't care how much work you do on yourself,
marry and like, it does something to someone, and you
internalize that.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
People only see ah, the gold medal, and people only
see all that other stuff. They don't know that there
is a demon in there that is many times you're
not high that you don't want the world to.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
See you know you're pushing it and you're like, no,
don't come out now, come out now?
Speaker 4 (19:55):
Why he wants to see?
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Right, Like, this is what I'm going to make them
see exactly what they want to see, which is not
a queer woman of color during that time.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Right, Yeah, Like I actually no, I didn't know that
about you, Marin.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
I didn't know that you already knew. Oh yeah years ago.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
You know, there's when.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Did you when did you know? I'm curious?
Speaker 4 (20:21):
Probably high school? Oh wow, yeah they're there. And yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Also there's pressure that I have never even really talked
about Ashlyn in that my my family on my maternal side,
I share there from Belize, right, which is a very.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
They were a former British colony, right.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
And so they're very very conservative even now, like I'll
tell you even now. And so growing up in a
household whereby I knew that it like it wasn't a
thing like it it better not be a thing, right,
like this is the way it should be, you know,
men and women and families and babies, and that is
(21:06):
how it should look. And so I have you have
that pressure that one again. I go back to not
wanting to disappoint the woman who risked it all for
following and I have for her and her journey and
how this will be interpreted by her and her country
(21:29):
men and women right where by now as a parent,
I know and of course now with my relationship with
my mom that has blossomed that it didn't need to
be that I could have one thousand percent.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
Been able to share with her who my authentic self
was and she would have still loved and embraced me
no matter what. So if there are regrets when people
are like, oh there must be, let me tell you,
that's the fucking regret regrets or reaction for.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
My where where past that you be?
Speaker 4 (22:11):
You the regret that my mom and I had to
go through so many years and decades of disconnect because
I felt that that was what I needed to do
besides all the.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Other stuff, right, besides telling the world whatever when it's
your mama, right, and and how our relationship has manifested
now because I'm my authentic self and wishing that I
could get all of those.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
Years back right.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Yeah, And it's very raw and real with me right now,
just because like knowing that.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
It hurt her for her daughter to be like disconnected.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Yeah, And I want to dive into that a little
bit because I can tell it's bumping you. Yeah, And
I want to talk about because I think it's really
important because you have gone through so much. You were
sentenced to fuck it you, I mean, you were locked
up and all of this stuff in the public eye
was unfolding. So many people had judgment, so many people
(23:16):
had something to say. And I'm curious because I know
I'm a mom, you're a mom. The shame and the
private healing and that amongst those walls where you can't
the only person you can talk to is yourself and
your soul. And I'm curious what that like was, what
that walk me through that? What is the difference between
(23:40):
the guilt and the shame? Where's the power in between it?
Where do I even begin to where do you begin
to forgive yourself?
Speaker 2 (23:48):
You know, you know, as I've shared the moments that
were the deepest and darkest were you know, during those
forty nine days, But they also the most enlightening because
you know, people will people don't know, I say, you know,
(24:09):
but people don't know when you are in what they
call the shoe, which is just a way for you
to say solitary confinement. Generally most of your privileges have
been taken away, right, So I'll give a little bit
of background on why I was insolitary. First of all,
I was sentenced to six months in incarceration for lying
(24:30):
to federal investigators.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
That was my offense.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
And when I was initially sentenced on that particular day
in New York, my legal team and I went.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
Into the sentencing.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Fairly confident Ashland that I would be sentenced to some
form of probation.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
They do an.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Extensive investigation on the individual and the benefits of incarcerating
somebody versus them being on probation and essentially using their
mess to teach. So the recommendation from the court even
before we went into the sentencing was that Marian most
(25:13):
likely would be given probation, although we knew that there
was a chance that time could be had.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
I stepped in there.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
With confidence, and so did my lab And so three
hours later I had to look to my left and
my right to my attorneys and I said, hold on,
did I hear this guy the judge say that I
was sentenced to six months incarceration And they were almost
(25:44):
flabberg acid as well, like, we don't we think so
in essence, what it came down to, and the judge
shared this that I was of course being used as
the example. You know, of course, plus athletes that were
in all of this, somebody needed to be the example.
Found out later Ashland, and I don't mind saying now,
(26:06):
I don't need to whisper please, at that time that
this particular judge was up for reelection.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
And needed to have a big case, a big strong case. Right.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Anyways, whole other story that we won't go down to,
but the whole point that when I was initially sentenced,
I was sentenced to some.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
Hardcore federal prison I don't know, and I don't.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Even remember this in Mississippi or somewhere. It wasn't Martha
Stewart type like incarceration. Right.
Speaker 4 (26:35):
Thankfully, at the last moment they moved me closer to
home in Fort Worth. And there's two parts of the
federal prison in Fort Worth, Texas. It's called Carswealth.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
There is a camp side Ashland whereby they are offenders
that like fudge on their taxes, like no, not hardcore offenders.
And across the street behind the barbed wire there are
your hardcore offenders, murderers whatever, so I was on the
camp side, right, and I was functioning in there.
Speaker 4 (27:07):
I was, you know, figuring it out.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
And trying to understand and learn the prison way.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
No background, Ashland.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
Whatever that look, I mean, nobody in my family.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
I mean the only exposure I had to it was
that show lock Up like lock.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Hell, yeah, I watched that too.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
I love that damn show.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
And so I'm glad you could laugh about it.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
Now. You have to know, right, you have to.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Know I didn't have any any any any prison sense.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
And I find out quickly right that there are some
halves and have nots. Even in prison. There haves are
people who have a support system on the outside, people
whom will write them and you can call and they
will put money on your books so that you can
get commissary. And then you have the have nots. And
these are people, unfortunately who maybe I've been in the
system for so long Ashland, they have no support system,
(28:04):
so they don't have anybody who writes to them, they
don't have anybody who puts money on their books for
the basic necessities. And so the way the system works
is by if you're part of the have nots, you
have a trade, you have a skill that you and
essence sell so that you can have money on your commissary.
And I learned that.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Of course, I had folks supporting me, and I had money,
plenty of money on my commissary to buy stuff. So
I had a roommate who was part of the have
not and she offered her skill was washing clothes. Let
me tell you why it's a big thing in prison,
because they only have two or three washers and dryers
on the camp side and you have to stand there
the entire time or somebody will steal your shit. Okay,
(28:46):
w I hired her to wash my stuff because I
worked out a lot. Again, that's my release from it all.
I left my prison time more in shape.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
Than when I went to the Olympics.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
That's how much I worked out, because that I had
a lot of sweatsuits and I needed to wash it often. Well.
I started to notice, Ashland, that some of my stuff
was missing, like and I'm paying her in commissary of course,
to make sure my stuff is And you find out
very quickly, Ashland, that you do not confront anybody that.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
You don't do that.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
So I have to figure out a way how to
tell this individual that I don't want to use her
services anymore in a way that she's not going to
take offense. And so I decided, you don't do it
in front of anybody else, you do it one on one,
which I did and then I realized later on though,
but what I did really was I took away her
(29:46):
ability to get anything from commissary by saying hey, in
the way I said it was, hey, I'm not gonna
I'm not going to need for you to do that anymore.
I'm going to wash stuff myself. I did it very gently, lightly.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Well, she didn't take it very well, and there was
an altercation to the point where I had to run.
Speaker 4 (30:02):
I mean, there were.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Fistical all kinds of stuff why or had to run
find the guard. The guard then takes us both to
the other side, the real prison side, while they do
an investigation, which took forty nine days.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
Her word versus my word. So that is why I
was in solitary for forty nine days.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Right again, though your reaction is this, but Ashley, it
was such a blessing because if I was on the
camp side and I'm doing my job and I'm functioning,
and I'm doing marrying type things, which means I'm connecting
with people and I'm forming relationships and I'm learning and
all of that. I don't know if I would have
(30:42):
had time to pause enough even in prison the camp side,
as opposed to when I was twenty three out of
twenty four days where I was just by myself. And
so to kind of wrap this story, bring it in
for a landing, you talked about like what it all
looked like initially?
Speaker 4 (31:02):
Dark? Right? I journaled a lot, I, you know.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Beat myself up, like how could you you know, how
could you have made certain choices? How how why did
you surround yourself with people who wouldn't be solid with you?
Or why couldn't you identify red flags and relationships and
all that?
Speaker 4 (31:24):
And then you just get to a point, probably two
three four weeks.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Into my my time in solitaire, I'm like, well, what
is that?
Speaker 4 (31:33):
Like what's that doing for you?
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Like? Is that gonna help me when I get out
to figure out who I am, who I'm going to become?
Speaker 4 (31:41):
Is that going to provide a living?
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Like?
Speaker 3 (31:43):
What?
Speaker 1 (31:44):
What?
Speaker 4 (31:44):
What?
Speaker 2 (31:46):
And so you just I just got to a point
where I'm like done with the fucking tears. I'm done
with them I'm done with the apologies. I stood on
the courtroom steps after the sentencing. I stood on the
courtroom steps, and I had made the decision, even prior
to the sentencing Ashland, that for the last time, I
was going to share with the world like this is
(32:08):
what happened, and I apologize right because also I asked
for acceptance with the world, right like I wanted to
be on the cover of every magazine, right like I
wanted the fame, I wanted the money, and I brought
this the whole world with me. And when I made
certain poor choices, I disappointed many, many people, and they
(32:31):
deserved an apology. So that's why on the courtroom steps
in front of I don't know somebody brought up the
other day, it must have been one thousand plus cameras,
I shared that I had made a poor choice, and
I am accepting my consequences. And the moment that I knew, Ashland,
that I was going to get through it all, this
(32:53):
was even before I went I surrendered and turned myself
in for the six months. On those courtroom steps, my
mom's hand was on my shoulder, right, and she's rubbing
my shoulder, and she's whispering in my ear. With all
the cameras and the questions, she said, you got this,
You're gonna get through this.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
We're going to get through this.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
And people have asked how when like that is the
moment for me that I knew that it was gonna
be hard, right, I'm no stranger to hard stuff, to discomfort,
as we talk about, I knew that it was going
to have the dark, hard moments. But then the next
day we'd bring some light. And I decided while I
(33:39):
was in the shoe, while I was locked up in solitary,
that when the time was right Ashland, that the world was.
Speaker 4 (33:48):
Going to hear the whole story. They were going to
hear about the mess.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
They were gonna hear how I was able to deal
with it, get through it, like all of it when
I was ready, when I also felt like my family
was ready.
Speaker 4 (34:02):
At that point, I had two kids, two boys, and.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Yeah, and that's what people don't know, like you were
doing this when you had two like you were a
new mom.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Yeah, And it was also the catalyst though, to say,
you know what, like it's time to share with the
world what it is, because, as you know, when you
have kids, everything you say and you don't say. Everything
you do and don't do like affects them. And so
during that time when I was being investigated and everything,
(34:39):
and I'm you know, claiming that I didn't know what
I had been given and all that type of stuff,
And right, I'm turning around and coming home and telling
my kids, like, when you make a poor choice, you
tell me and we deal with the consequences, and.
Speaker 4 (34:55):
What a hypocrite.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Yeah, like I was living and then I'm like, wait, no,
at at one point in my kids' lives, they're gonna
do the timeline right, and they're gonna say, Okay, you know,
mom was in lead athlete, she was this, this, this,
and she made poor choices and then she had us
and then she was still telling lies but then telling
us not to lie. What No, pump the brakes. I
(35:21):
don't care what the consequences are gonna be, and it
certainly I didn't at that point know what they were
gonna be. But I don't care because this means more
to me than any of it.
Speaker 4 (35:30):
Right. If I lose it all, I lose it all.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
But at least I have the respect of my babies, right,
And that's I mean that was the catalyst. And so
now I can stand here and I go back to
this idea of pride knowing that my kids right, and
they're old enough now I have a twenty one, a seventeen,
and a fifteen, and they know the story right, and
(35:54):
that they when they dissect it all, if they haven't yet,
they will.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
Right.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
I've raised some incredible humans that are gonna make such
an incredible impact in the world. And what I am
most proud of in my life to having having to
do that and doing that.
Speaker 4 (36:12):
But now it's time. My quiet time is done. My
time now is to shout it right whoever needs to
hear it. People who weren't who are not even a
fan Ashland of sport, who could care less how fast
I ran, how many soccer balls you blocked, right, But.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
They now are in some shit and they need to
hear from somebody who has lived it that it's possible.
Speaker 4 (36:37):
To get out of it.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Yep, right, And that is the moment that you know
what I'm gonna shout. I don't care if there's still
doors slam Ashton, I don't care if there's some people
out there that are like and I.
Speaker 4 (36:48):
Don't want to hear from her she's a cheat, or.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
I don't want to hear from her because she lied,
okay by Felicia?
Speaker 4 (36:55):
Is that what now?
Speaker 3 (36:57):
Just unsubscribed?
Speaker 4 (36:58):
Right? Not? And my voice will not be stifled.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
I am not going to have as you talked about earlier,
like my narrative written for me anymore. So and so
and that is the moment right where ah you talk
about it, talk about strength, you talk about like that's
the fuel that gets me up now in all of it, Ashlyn,
and my my tone will change just for a millisecond.
(37:25):
I don't want anybody hearing this to think that that
they're not days, they're not moment that I that I
sit and I stew in it, right and then I
don't you know, there's not sadness and anger and humiliation
and embarrassment.
Speaker 4 (37:41):
It's not that. But I just don't stay there for
longer than however long, right.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
No, that grief, that grief still lives within you.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Days and that you just you're you're better equipped with
how to deal with.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
To handle it.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Yeah, I got to ask this as you say this,
it's just you know, I'm I'm you know, as we spoke,
you know a few weeks ago I am in the
journey now of my second wind, and you're so true
and sure of who you are, and you talk about
this really important moment where your mom puts, you know,
her hand on your shoulder and just shows you like
(38:17):
I'm here, like I got you and we're in this together.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Yeah, just grace.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Who showed up for you when everyone else left besides
your mom? Because that's been my biggest struggle. I'll be
real honest, that's been my biggest struggle is when all
this shit you know, happened and all these people it
opened the door all these opinions and expectations and who
you were and how you showed up as a mom
(38:45):
and your character who showed up when everyone else left?
Speaker 4 (38:52):
It's hard. It's not hard because I don't know.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
It's hard to express it because.
Speaker 4 (39:05):
People are people. And let me explain what I mean
by that. There are people along the way that were there.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Okay, they were there when it's convenient for them. And
what's hard about it is to think about it, right,
like to to know that even some.
Speaker 4 (39:35):
Of them are my friends now, right.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
So that's what's hard, right, is because it's not a
conversation that has been had with them because it's hard.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
And I want to say like, yeah, you were there,
but when it's convenient for you, right, And.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Yeah, mama, it makes for establishing a community of friends hard, right,
because like I mean, and if you have that, great,
but I find that like trust issues and people might
even turn it around and say, well, we don't trust
you married well, like I have a very very hard
(40:18):
time with establishing a circle because of my lack of
trust that when and if things go sour, people will
just disappear. I know, Mama's not disappearing. I know my brother.
I should have also said my brother and my mother
like they've always been there. But you know, and I
(40:38):
am confident that I have a partner now that's not
going to disappear. And now I have brought three kids
in the world and they're not disappearing.
Speaker 4 (40:46):
They need Venmo cash app all that. No, they're not
going anywhere.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
But damn and they're expensive.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
But beyond that, you know, there's just that that caution
to create a community whereby man, if hiccups happen in life,
and they do, and they will like who who is
going to be around for it all? And I'm confident
and I've put together some people now that will, but
(41:16):
there's always that and that's a that's a that's a
lonely place to live and to function and to grow
old with.
Speaker 4 (41:25):
And that's what I have to hold on to, you know.
So that's tough, that's hard. That's a really good question asked.
I've never been asking that.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
This is wide open and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris.
Speaker 3 (41:39):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
I feel like we connect on a lot of levels.
And you know, as you know, going through my second
wind right now, and I'm grieving in the process, I'm
parenting in the process, and I agree, I have moments
of great grief and shame.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
And you know, I have.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Two very young kids who see that, you know, and
I I it's hard, and sometimes it's okay just to say, man,
it's fucking hard.
Speaker 4 (42:14):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
And I'll tell you, though, Ashlyn, what in an incredible
role model you are in that even when we talked
a few weeks back and how you parents and who
you are and that you are so transparent when it
comes to your babies and to your kids, and for
(42:37):
me that was everything, right, like how all of this
would shape my kids' lives. Transparency, authenticity, that they see
the good days right with mom or mom, I don't
know what they're what they call it, Mama, I see
the good days, they see the hard days, they see
(42:59):
how you now to gate it, you talk them through it.
And as they get older, I know they're they're young,
but as you get older, like continue to do that,
just on a whatever level they're at. So I'm giving
you like high five, like thank you. We all need
we all need encouragement. And I and I'm here to say,
looking from the outside in and what you've shared and
what I've learned about you like you, that is the
(43:22):
example that you are setting that all of us can
look towards.
Speaker 4 (43:25):
So keep doing.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
Thank you for sure, Yeah, thank you for saying that.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
And I appreciate that, and I you know, I I'm
grateful that you said that, and you've taken the time
and I see a lot of myself and your struggle,
and it it humanizes it for me and and.
Speaker 3 (43:42):
It lets me know I'm gonna be okay too, no doubt.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
And I appreciate your vulnerability and your honesty and and
this is the big part, you know, and this is
the next part. I want to talk about your willingness
now to come out public and be in the public
eye again and really start talking about it, because if
you didn't choose to do that, we wouldn't be having
(44:08):
these incredible conversations and you know, just share space and
feelings if you chose to continue working on yourself behind
the scenes and not in the public eye. So I'll
want to ask that question because you did decide to
do Special Forces, which is such a course you did.
(44:30):
Of course you did Special Forces. I mean, what are
we talking about? But I want to know why you chose.
You know, you spoke about it a little a little bit.
I want to know why now have you made the
choice to really come out and talk about what you
went through and talk about your story and your life.
Speaker 4 (44:51):
Well, there are a lot of layers to that.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
I'll speak on the Special Forces opportunity in that.
Speaker 4 (45:03):
It was I don't know, it is God in some.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
Way because I had made the decision about a year
and a half ago that the story in my head
and heart and body wasn't helping anybody, right, like, just
stay in there, and how to strategically start to share
with people who I am, Why I am who I
(45:32):
More importantly, see myself becoming because I think we're all
a work in progress, yes, and like, yeah, how do
I do that authentically? I stem from a culture where
you don't really put your dirty laundry out there, right,
Like it's kind of looked looked down on to do that.
(45:56):
And then you start to realize, well, Mary, and you
need to come into you know, it's not going away.
So how do I leverage that in a way that
truly and truly shows who I am? Right, There's no
way that I could have come back on the scene
Ashland and not it not be authentic, right, Like.
Speaker 4 (46:16):
It almost had to be right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
And so the idea that when I came back on
I didn't even realize that it was a thing Ashland,
that that people didn't realize that I was out or whatever,
because for my time, you know, the decade that I
made the decision to be in my community and my
family and raise my kids, like I was out right,
like yeah, and so when I made a decision to
(46:40):
like be back in the world, it was almost like
somebody said, wait, you know, the world doesn't know that,
like you.
Speaker 4 (46:48):
Have a partner. I was like, oh, okay, so that's
I guess I got to share that so that and
so it was it was almost like a flippant type
thing that I'm like, hey, y'all, it's pride, this last
year pride or something like, it's pride, and and it
really resonates with me because right, this is who I am.
And again, the reason that I think it came across
(47:11):
so authentically was because it wasn't a thing yo, like,
this is it. But the Special Forces thing was important
because one we crave and I know you experienced this
as well, but I need some type of physical challenge.
It's I guess I need that. It's in my it's
(47:31):
in my DNA.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
And and having having had to distance myself from it,
like competitively for lots of reasons, but also because of
age and injury and grade four arthritis in both knees
and that type of stuff, and I.
Speaker 4 (47:48):
Moved away from.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
It, but it's still ah, right, Like, the Special Forces
was a very interesting for me, and that I would
be challenged physically, I would be child emotionally and mentally,
and it would give me a platform to be able
to say, yo, I'm back, this is who I am,
(48:10):
this is where I'm at.
Speaker 4 (48:12):
And so that's what I made the decision.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
To do it, and it checked all of those boxes,
and I felt, you know, anytime you I have a
love hate relationship with the media, understanding and making the
decision right. Making the decision, Ashley, though, to sign up
for a show whereby I don't have editing rights was
(48:37):
a scary one because at the end of the day,
I don't know how they can edit however they want
to make whomever look like.
Speaker 4 (48:46):
Like a god or the devil, right, And so by.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
Making the decision and putting myself back out there and
making that scary choice that Okay, I'm gonna like put
it in the hands of somebody else.
Speaker 4 (48:59):
I'm gonna be who I am on the show.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
But ultimately, let me see, let me turn on the
TV and see whom they decide to create.
Speaker 4 (49:06):
Me to be.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
Yeah, And you know what I was able to say
at the end of the day, good decision, Mary, because
whatever they saw in how I was on the show
and how I competed and how I fought and and
was what they saw and what they made and what
they decided to portray to the world.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
And you really did show that to the world. And
I want to say thank you. I appreciate all the
things that you show up and continue to do to
make this world better. And it really shows me that
your journey, this whole redemption thing about like erasing the past,
(49:50):
it's really not about that.
Speaker 3 (49:52):
It's the bravery.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
To rise again and to grow and to lead with
honesty and love.
Speaker 3 (49:57):
And a lot of people see that in you.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
You and you heal them in the process of the
things that they're having to be honest and brave about.
Speaker 3 (50:06):
So I have to say thank you.
Speaker 4 (50:08):
And that makes it worth it, Ashlyn, Right, it makes
our dark days or even our current dark days, it
makes it worth it when people see that, and maybe
they are inspired by it, maybe they're inspired to make
some type of change in their own life. Like that
to me makes it worth it. Like like we were
meant here, We were meant to be here to be
(50:31):
an example. Right, Yes, that's what we and I include
you in this, Ashley, that's what we are doing.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
So yeay, yep, second win, second chances. It's just it's
about courage and bravery. So thank you for for being
that for us, and thanks for being on wide open
and and I'm grateful for your story and all of it.
Speaker 4 (50:54):
Yeah, thank you. Ashlyn, it's been, it's been.
Speaker 3 (50:56):
You're the best. Thank you.
Speaker 4 (50:57):
You bring me back and we can talk all of Yes, Okay.
Speaker 3 (51:00):
Let's do it. Yes, let's do it. Thanks everybody for
tuning in.
Speaker 1 (51:05):
Marion again, thank you for your vulnerability, Thank you for
being wide open, and please tell everyone about your podcast
and where they can check you out.
Speaker 2 (51:12):
Yeah, check out Second Wind anywhere. If you listen to
your podcast, Ashlan will be on the show. Yes, exited
to be able to share all the goodness that you
all already that are listening know that she is, but
to be able to.
Speaker 4 (51:28):
Give talk to you about it, it was a pleasure.
So thank you, Thank.
Speaker 3 (51:31):
You, appreciate it. Go heels yay, go heels.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
Wide Open with Ashland Harris is an iHeart women's sports production.
You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (51:49):
Our producers are.
Speaker 1 (51:50):
Carmen Borca Correo, Emily Maronov, and Lucy Jones. Production assistants
from Malia Aguidello. Our executive produce users are Jesse Katz,
Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Jenny Kaplan
and Emily Rudder and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris,
Hello everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Wide
Open with Ashland Harris. Today, I can't wait to introduce
our guest, Marion Jones. Welcome to the podcast. You uh,
(00:21):
one of my favorite humans. We caught up maybe what
was it two weeks ago, had such a great conversation
and we both went to the University of North Carolina.
You played hoops, yeah, and have have always been an
incredible track star. And now you're out, You're back on
the grind. You were on Special Forces.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Yeah, thank you, Ashland. It has it has been an
incredible ride. To say it lightly, but it's always a
pleasure when I get an opportunity to to share and
talk with folks whom one like we have a a
special bond and that we made a decision to attend
(01:03):
the best university in the land. So that there's that,
so you know, we're very very smart individuals. But in
addition to that, Ashlynd like getting a chance to share
what I who I am with somebody whom I respect
at another level makes it even more enjoyable, and it
(01:24):
also makes the journey, which we know like can be
a challenging one when there are hiccups along the road.
And to be able to communicate with somebody who understands
that and can help, like the world sip through it
all makes it even better. So I'm just excited to
hop into all things.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Oh thank you, thank you for that.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
And what I'll say is, you know, I Marion co
hosts a podcast called Second Wind, and I was lucky
enough to be on it and kind of kind of
share a little bit of my story and a lot
of it was centered around me. But what I love
so much about you is your bravery to stand in
(02:08):
the pain and talk about it and share your scars
and you know, come forward with your truth in a
lot of different ways and a lot of aspect like
that's there's so much courage.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
And bravery in it. And you know, anyone who.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Knows your story, knows what you've had to walk through.
That's like a huge testament to your character. And I'm
grateful for you to do that because it is not easy,
and it is not easy by any means. And now
to come out and stand in your truth and come
(02:43):
out as being a queer woman, I just think there's
so much beauty in showing the world that no matter
what age you are, we get second chances at life,
and it's it's our job to take them and be
resilient and show up up.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, no, no doubt. Like it's almost I almost find
that it's a we all. We have a certain sense
of responsibility when we have, in essence, been given the
baton no pun intended.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Or or the torch in regards.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
To like someone some being felt that we would be
in a position when we are in on this planet
to have.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
A big voice, to have a big.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Presence, right, So I find that it's almost our responsibility
to once things happen in our life, good, bad and
everything in between, that you don't disappear that you stand
in it, even sometimes if it's funky, you standing in
your shit, right, And for for folks like myself and
(03:56):
you and others, for us to just like say, you
know what, I'm just gonna just be in my little
world here, right, and I'm not gonna share my experiences
and the good and the bad with anybody else because one,
maybe it's too painful, Maybe I don't want to be embarrassed.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Maybe it's it's going to be costly, right, Like it's
gonna be a financial hit to me.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
That's all A bunch of like crap. But I've also
Ashland had to grow into it, right, Like I would
tell you, yeah, at twenty one years old when the
shit was hitting the fan, right, like, I was not
in this space. Ho no to not to share all
my stuff, like we can get into some of the
(04:38):
nitty gritty ashen but like when I was released from
federal prison, right and like really unsure of what the
future held.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
I knew that.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
I had a passion for sport, Like, you know, I
wanted to be competitive somehow. I was still fairly young,
but what would that look like in the world of sport?
So you know, I wanted to try my hand in basketball,
and I did that and I made a WABA team, the.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
Oldest rookie ever to do that.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
That kind of fizzled out for a little bit and
then I'm like, well, well, who else are you marrying?
Speaker 4 (05:18):
Because for so much of our lives, and I include union, yes,
our sport was who we are? Who are you married?
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (05:25):
I'm an athlete? Who are you Ashley?
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Oh you're a rock soccer soccer player?
Speaker 4 (05:30):
And beyond that, like I was just like like.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Who the who am I? Yeah? Who are we? How
do we show up, how do we move in the world?
Speaker 4 (05:39):
Sport? And it bled into everything, It bled into relationships,
it bled into like and so I I'm actually so grateful.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
And I know I'm just kind of going all over
the place here, but I'm just I'm grateful for the
times that I was forced to spend with my shit,
with myself. And that happened to be incarceration, right, forty
nine days in solitary confinement, whereby I had to say,
all right, like pump the brakes, Marian, you are so
(06:15):
much more than what the world thinks you are, Okay?
Was I blessed Ashland to be able to run from
here to there very fast?
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Was I blessed woman on the planet? Babe?
Speaker 4 (06:26):
Right? Or it's to stand a wall and right or
writ the layup or whatever, But that's not who you are.
That's what you do do.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Right, And you and you married, And I'm talking about
myself for a second, and the third person, I don't
always do that.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
It you You were so much more than that. Like
my mom is a is a was is is a rock.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Star human right. She made the decision when she was young.
She was pregnant with my older brother. I have one sibling.
He's one year he's five years older than me. And
she made the decision when she she's from a small
country in Central America by the name of Billize, and
she became pregnant with my brother, with my brother, and
she made a decision. You know what, My current situation
(07:10):
is not one that I want for myself anymore, nor
my babies. So I am gonna make that trek and
get up to the States to try and provide a
better life for them. And in my darkest moments, ashlynd
And they were dark, right, I spent I told you
forty nine days locked up, right, twenty three out of
(07:32):
twenty four days unable to go outside. And sometimes because
of where I was incarcerated here in Texas, some of
the guards didn't even want to take me out for
the one hour of wreck time because it was sold.
And in those moments from like would Mary, would this
be what Marion lois? That's my mom's name, Marian. Also
(07:55):
I used to call her big Marion me little Marian.
Now it's the other way around. Is this what Marion
Loy's envision for her babies?
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Is?
Speaker 2 (08:06):
This?
Speaker 4 (08:07):
Is this what and who I am? Right?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Is this like the products of all of the sacrifices
that she made. Yeah, And once I put it in
that perspective, I'm like, well, hell to the no, it's
not did I Did I make some poor decisions?
Speaker 4 (08:26):
Did we go a little bit off track?
Speaker 2 (08:28):
But that's not going to define that's not going to
define me, and I refuse to allow it.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
To define me. Right, And so that is when the
growth like started. And I don't know, honestly, Ashlynd, I
don't know if without having that quiet time, even though
it was forced upon me right.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
To just sit with myself, if I would have come
to that real that that moment that.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
I am not what I do?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Yes, yes, and so and so when I say that
I'm grateful for it all, that's what I mean.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
And when I say I mean, are there regrets? Sure? Whatever? Whatever,
right you know, are there moments? But man, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
I'm gonna tell you because I am not the woman
that I am today. I mean, you hear it all
the time from people who have perseveres and who are
so resilient. You hear it from them all the time.
I'm not the person who I am today. If I
hadn't gone through my.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Sky yes, yes, I agree.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
I we we speak the same language. And I'll say
this for those of you who are listening or watching
and who who don't know the background of Marion, I
mean she was. You're You're the trailblazer on and off
the field. You're a phenom. I mean, how many people
(09:54):
can literally say, oh, I went to the University of
North Carolina, played basketball one national championship and became one
of the most like fastest women on the planet. And Sydney,
you know you in two thousand and you won five
medals and you just you were the first black female
(10:15):
athlete on the cover of Vogue, Like you were everywhere,
like it was insane. And then what happened was, you know,
I don't want to speak for you as you live.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
This is there.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
This is when performance enhancement drugs started really hitting the scene.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
And like, you know, I am younger than you, and.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
I understand what you sacrifice at all costs to be
the greatest.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
I smiled.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Now, there was a time, Ashley, when I would cringe
when people would like make comments or you know, I
there was a lot of disappointment in all of it
with me, Like I dealt with the familial disappoint like
disappointing my family and like my close people, and that
(11:04):
is that is actually a constant that I struggle with
and that I.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
Deal with often still.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
But this idea that in the past when people would
come in and they would say certain things about my
legacy and my career and all that, and it would
just get under my skin and eat me up, and
I just kind of have to like swallow my words.
And now I'm at a point where like cool, like
what were you doing when you were twenty eighteen, nineteen
(11:31):
twenty three, Like did you have a microscope on you?
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Were?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
You're getting paid millions of dollars and everybody in your
circle were patting you on the back and they were
your yes people, And you know, I'm people listening.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
To that, They're like, well, what is that?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
These are people who are around you because and they
tell you yes to everything.
Speaker 4 (11:51):
Yes, you're awesome, Yes you're beautiful. Yes that's the right decision, right.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
And if you're around that and long enough, you start
to like it and you start to say, you know what,
I have the resources and the power to only surround
those people with me and people who are going to
give it to me straight, like my mama, like my
close friends, I'm going to distance myself from them because
I don't have to hear them telling me that I'm
(12:15):
not great or beautiful, right, And that's what happens. And
so I just smile now when when you know people
will comment because that stuff now is.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
We think differently.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
We meeting elite right, like thinkers, elite musicians, elite athletes.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
We think differently, and that people can come at us
all they.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Want, and they don't understand how when you get to
a certain level of maturity in your growth, Like.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
We use that shit as fuel fuel.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Right, Like I'm training right now, ashlond for for a triathlone,
don't triathl don't ask me how I get myself into
this stuff.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
But because we're used to pain, what comfort and the
suffering girl and so.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Mean, this idea of fuel is in my everyday vocabulary
because triathletes they talk about fueling them, fueling their workouts NonStop.
But I like to laugh, like I love the critics now,
like it's like, yes, come at me, come at me
right now, so that just for a moment, I can
(13:23):
turn that dang mirror around and say, okay, well, tell
me about tell me about your twenties to thirties, right,
tell me about your thirties, so for me, tell me
about your childhood? Right, and and are you able to
now stand in it all and share with the world
with the hopes of making helping people realize that they
don't have to stay stuck there Ashley, That's where I'm
(13:44):
at right now.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
The mantra is what you don't have to stay stuck
in your stuff. You don't have to. When you do,
you're making a decision to stay there. You don't have to.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
There are resources, there are tools, things that you can learn.
Your failure in life doesn't have to stay there.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Forever, right, And that's where the power lies, no doubt.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
And then and then the last thing that I share
is like, we all have setbacks, right, how can you
use it as a catalyst, right for your biggest comeback?
And they're like, no, I don't know. I was like, hey, here,
just just follow my journey.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
If you if you need a living.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Example, right, like, log into this damn podcast, follow Action's career, like,
like you know, follow Marion on Instagram.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
Whatever. If you're looking for it, it's.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Out there out there.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
You just gotta like and we're humanizing it though, Like
that's the problem, is humanizing it.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
Stay tuned, we'll be right back after this. I want
to I want to.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
I want to talk about the price of greatness that
people don't know. Right, So people always think I want
to be rich, I want to be powerful. It's the
American mentality, right, But people don't understand the toll it
takes on being the one.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
People don't understand the pressure to perform at all fucking costs.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
People don't know the difference, like you know, ambition, expectation,
like what is right?
Speaker 3 (15:25):
What is wrong?
Speaker 2 (15:26):
It's it's you throw you throw in that in that
pot of goodness that you just shared. You know, the
pressures of being a woman of color, right, yea, the
pressure of being a queer woman before I was even
comfortable with sharing with the world and for fear right,
that is going to negatively impact me financially.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
And whatever else.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
And that I've found and I've been able to identify
now Ashlyn as I'm about to turn fifty this year,
which is mind blowing. Like we celebrated a few years back,
we celebrated thirty years from.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
The time we won the national champion, Like.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
It's crazy. That is crazy, right, it is crazy crazy.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Maybe it's crazy because you know, every year during March
Madness they show the shot that we won, so it's
kind of constantly relieved. Yeah, but that's insane. But I
find now I can put a word to it. It
is a very lonely, lonely journey. People like I want
to be a success, like you said, I want to
(16:31):
be rich. I want to be on the cover of.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
This, on the on the let me.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
People are not ready.
Speaker 4 (16:37):
Many people are not ready that I mean you you
think you see like special social especially with social media,
you only see the beautiful, the nice.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Good, the highlights, what we call the highlights.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
People don't know that ninety nine I'm gonna throw a
number too. In ninety nine point eight percent of the time,
it is a dark place to get there. You see success,
you see the gold medals. You know you don't You
don't know that. I struggle with stuff growing up in
terms of a parent whome turned their back on my fam,
(17:13):
my mom and I right, and and although I wanted
to be a part of his life and him see
my successes and.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
All that, he chose not to.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
To the point I get to Carolina. Let me tell
you a quick story that it always about. I get
to Carolina and we win. We win the national championship
my freshman year. My sophomore year, we make it to
the sweet sixteen. So we have to fly out to
my hometown in Los Angeles. And I were playing Stanford
(17:44):
and we're down at halftime.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
We're just struggling, and I run to the locker room.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
But before I get there, I look into the fans
and I see my father. Now I hadn't seen my
father in maybe five or six years. He had cut
off all communication with me, et cetera. And I see
him right, but I'm running into the locker room, and
it almost it makes me excite, Like you know, at
that point, I'm really wanting his approval. Right, Look what
(18:12):
I've been doing, Dad, right, Like I'm doing something.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
It's big, it's great.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
And he just never responded in high school and on
all that. And I see his face Ashlyn and I
and he kind of pumps me up, like.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
Well we wound up.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Was still losing to Stanford, and that's emotional and everything.
And I come out and my mom had driven by
that point, she had moved to North Carolina, right, So
she was there and I came out mainly because I
just wanted to see him, man, I wanted to like
hug him, and he was gone, like I couldn't never,
I could never find him. And that was actually the
last time that I saw him because after I won
(18:50):
in the Olympics, a number of years later thousand, two
thousand and one, I get.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
A call that my dad had passed, that my father
had passed away.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Right, And so people don't know in all of those moments,
all of those awards and celebrations, and like how hard
it was not to know why.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
He made certain choices and we all do right, like
especially now that we all got different reasons why we
do stuff, and the idea of not having any of
those questions answered now forever.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Yeah, it's hard.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
It does something to someone, you know, it's hard not
I don't care how much work you do on yourself,
marry and like, it does something to someone, and you
internalize that.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
People only see ah, the gold medal, and people only
see all that other stuff. They don't know that there
is a demon in there that is many times you're
not high that you don't want the world to.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
See you know you're pushing it and you're like, no,
don't come out now, come out now?
Speaker 4 (19:55):
Why he wants to see?
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Right, Like, this is what I'm going to make them
see exactly what they want to see, which is not
a queer woman of color during that time.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Right, Yeah, Like I actually no, I didn't know that
about you, Marin.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
I didn't know that you already knew. Oh yeah years ago.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
You know, there's when.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Did you when did you know? I'm curious?
Speaker 4 (20:21):
Probably high school? Oh wow, yeah they're there. And yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Also there's pressure that I have never even really talked
about Ashlyn in that my my family on my maternal side,
I share there from Belize, right, which is a very.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
They were a former British colony, right.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
And so they're very very conservative even now, like I'll
tell you even now. And so growing up in a
household whereby I knew that it like it wasn't a
thing like it it better not be a thing, right,
like this is the way it should be, you know,
men and women and families and babies, and that is
(21:06):
how it should look. And so I have you have
that pressure that one again. I go back to not
wanting to disappoint the woman who risked it all for
following and I have for her and her journey and
how this will be interpreted by her and her country
(21:29):
men and women right where by now as a parent,
I know and of course now with my relationship with
my mom that has blossomed that it didn't need to
be that I could have one thousand percent.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
Been able to share with her who my authentic self
was and she would have still loved and embraced me
no matter what. So if there are regrets when people
are like, oh there must be, let me tell you,
that's the fucking regret regrets or reaction for.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
My where where past that you be?
Speaker 4 (22:11):
You the regret that my mom and I had to
go through so many years and decades of disconnect because
I felt that that was what I needed to do
besides all the.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Other stuff, right, besides telling the world whatever when it's
your mama, right, and and how our relationship has manifested
now because I'm my authentic self and wishing that I
could get all of those.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
Years back right.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Yeah, And it's very raw and real with me right now,
just because like knowing that.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
It hurt her for her daughter to be like disconnected.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Yeah, And I want to dive into that a little
bit because I can tell it's bumping you. Yeah, And
I want to talk about because I think it's really
important because you have gone through so much. You were
sentenced to fuck it you, I mean, you were locked
up and all of this stuff in the public eye
was unfolding. So many people had judgment, so many people
(23:16):
had something to say. And I'm curious because I know
I'm a mom, you're a mom. The shame and the
private healing and that amongst those walls where you can't
the only person you can talk to is yourself and
your soul. And I'm curious what that like was, what
that walk me through that? What is the difference between
(23:40):
the guilt and the shame? Where's the power in between it?
Where do I even begin to where do you begin
to forgive yourself?
Speaker 2 (23:48):
You know, you know, as I've shared the moments that
were the deepest and darkest were you know, during those
forty nine days, But they also the most enlightening because
you know, people will people don't know, I say, you know,
(24:09):
but people don't know when you are in what they
call the shoe, which is just a way for you
to say solitary confinement. Generally most of your privileges have
been taken away, right, So I'll give a little bit
of background on why I was insolitary. First of all,
I was sentenced to six months in incarceration for lying
(24:30):
to federal investigators.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
That was my offense.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
And when I was initially sentenced on that particular day
in New York, my legal team and I went.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
Into the sentencing.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Fairly confident Ashland that I would be sentenced to some
form of probation.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
They do an.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Extensive investigation on the individual and the benefits of incarcerating
somebody versus them being on probation and essentially using their
mess to teach. So the recommendation from the court even
before we went into the sentencing was that Marian most
(25:13):
likely would be given probation, although we knew that there
was a chance that time could be had.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
I stepped in there.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
With confidence, and so did my lab And so three
hours later I had to look to my left and
my right to my attorneys and I said, hold on,
did I hear this guy the judge say that I
was sentenced to six months incarceration And they were almost
(25:44):
flabberg acid as well, like, we don't we think so
in essence, what it came down to, and the judge
shared this that I was of course being used as
the example. You know, of course, plus athletes that were
in all of this, somebody needed to be the example.
Found out later Ashland, and I don't mind saying now,
(26:06):
I don't need to whisper please, at that time that
this particular judge was up for reelection.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
And needed to have a big case, a big strong case. Right.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Anyways, whole other story that we won't go down to,
but the whole point that when I was initially sentenced,
I was sentenced to some.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
Hardcore federal prison I don't know, and I don't.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Even remember this in Mississippi or somewhere. It wasn't Martha
Stewart type like incarceration. Right.
Speaker 4 (26:35):
Thankfully, at the last moment they moved me closer to
home in Fort Worth. And there's two parts of the
federal prison in Fort Worth, Texas. It's called Carswealth.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
There is a camp side Ashland whereby they are offenders
that like fudge on their taxes, like no, not hardcore offenders.
And across the street behind the barbed wire there are
your hardcore offenders, murderers whatever, so I was on the
camp side, right, and I was functioning in there.
Speaker 4 (27:07):
I was, you know, figuring it out.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
And trying to understand and learn the prison way.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
No background, Ashland.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
Whatever that look, I mean, nobody in my family.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
I mean the only exposure I had to it was
that show lock Up like lock.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Hell, yeah, I watched that too.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
I love that damn show.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
And so I'm glad you could laugh about it.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
Now. You have to know, right, you have to.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Know I didn't have any any any any prison sense.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
And I find out quickly right that there are some
halves and have nots. Even in prison. There haves are
people who have a support system on the outside, people
whom will write them and you can call and they
will put money on your books so that you can
get commissary. And then you have the have nots. And
these are people, unfortunately who maybe I've been in the
system for so long Ashland, they have no support system,
(28:04):
so they don't have anybody who writes to them, they
don't have anybody who puts money on their books for
the basic necessities. And so the way the system works
is by if you're part of the have nots, you
have a trade, you have a skill that you and
essence sell so that you can have money on your commissary.
And I learned that.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Of course, I had folks supporting me, and I had money,
plenty of money on my commissary to buy stuff. So
I had a roommate who was part of the have
not and she offered her skill was washing clothes. Let
me tell you why it's a big thing in prison,
because they only have two or three washers and dryers
on the camp side and you have to stand there
the entire time or somebody will steal your shit. Okay,
(28:46):
w I hired her to wash my stuff because I
worked out a lot. Again, that's my release from it all.
I left my prison time more in shape.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
Than when I went to the Olympics.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
That's how much I worked out, because that I had
a lot of sweatsuits and I needed to wash it often. Well.
I started to notice, Ashland, that some of my stuff
was missing, like and I'm paying her in commissary of course,
to make sure my stuff is And you find out
very quickly, Ashland, that you do not confront anybody that.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
You don't do that.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
So I have to figure out a way how to
tell this individual that I don't want to use her
services anymore in a way that she's not going to
take offense. And so I decided, you don't do it
in front of anybody else, you do it one on one,
which I did and then I realized later on though,
but what I did really was I took away her
(29:46):
ability to get anything from commissary by saying hey, in
the way I said it was, hey, I'm not gonna
I'm not going to need for you to do that anymore.
I'm going to wash stuff myself. I did it very gently, lightly.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Well, she didn't take it very well, and there was
an altercation to the point where I had to run.
Speaker 4 (30:02):
I mean, there were.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Fistical all kinds of stuff why or had to run
find the guard. The guard then takes us both to
the other side, the real prison side, while they do
an investigation, which took forty nine days.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
Her word versus my word. So that is why I
was in solitary for forty nine days.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Right again, though your reaction is this, but Ashley, it
was such a blessing because if I was on the
camp side and I'm doing my job and I'm functioning,
and I'm doing marrying type things, which means I'm connecting
with people and I'm forming relationships and I'm learning and
all of that. I don't know if I would have
(30:42):
had time to pause enough even in prison the camp side,
as opposed to when I was twenty three out of
twenty four days where I was just by myself. And
so to kind of wrap this story, bring it in
for a landing, you talked about like what it all
looked like initially?
Speaker 4 (31:02):
Dark? Right? I journaled a lot, I, you know.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Beat myself up, like how could you you know, how
could you have made certain choices? How how why did
you surround yourself with people who wouldn't be solid with you?
Or why couldn't you identify red flags and relationships and
all that?
Speaker 4 (31:24):
And then you just get to a point, probably two
three four weeks.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Into my my time in solitaire, I'm like, well, what
is that?
Speaker 4 (31:33):
Like what's that doing for you?
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Like? Is that gonna help me when I get out
to figure out who I am, who I'm going to become?
Speaker 4 (31:41):
Is that going to provide a living?
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Like?
Speaker 3 (31:43):
What?
Speaker 1 (31:44):
What?
Speaker 4 (31:44):
What?
Speaker 2 (31:46):
And so you just I just got to a point
where I'm like done with the fucking tears. I'm done
with them I'm done with the apologies. I stood on
the courtroom steps after the sentencing. I stood on the
courtroom steps, and I had made the decision, even prior
to the sentencing Ashland, that for the last time, I
was going to share with the world like this is
(32:08):
what happened, and I apologize right because also I asked
for acceptance with the world, right like I wanted to
be on the cover of every magazine, right like I
wanted the fame, I wanted the money, and I brought
this the whole world with me. And when I made
certain poor choices, I disappointed many, many people, and they
(32:31):
deserved an apology. So that's why on the courtroom steps
in front of I don't know somebody brought up the
other day, it must have been one thousand plus cameras,
I shared that I had made a poor choice, and
I am accepting my consequences. And the moment that I knew, Ashland,
that I was going to get through it all, this
(32:53):
was even before I went I surrendered and turned myself
in for the six months. On those courtroom steps, my
mom's hand was on my shoulder, right, and she's rubbing
my shoulder, and she's whispering in my ear. With all
the cameras and the questions, she said, you got this,
You're gonna get through this.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
We're going to get through this.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
And people have asked how when like that is the
moment for me that I knew that it was gonna
be hard, right, I'm no stranger to hard stuff, to discomfort,
as we talk about, I knew that it was going
to have the dark, hard moments. But then the next
day we'd bring some light. And I decided while I
(33:39):
was in the shoe, while I was locked up in solitary,
that when the time was right Ashland, that the world was.
Speaker 4 (33:48):
Going to hear the whole story. They were going to
hear about the mess.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
They were gonna hear how I was able to deal
with it, get through it, like all of it when
I was ready, when I also felt like my family
was ready.
Speaker 4 (34:02):
At that point, I had two kids, two boys, and.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Yeah, and that's what people don't know, like you were
doing this when you had two like you were a
new mom.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Yeah, And it was also the catalyst though, to say,
you know what, like it's time to share with the
world what it is, because, as you know, when you
have kids, everything you say and you don't say. Everything
you do and don't do like affects them. And so
during that time when I was being investigated and everything,
(34:39):
and I'm you know, claiming that I didn't know what
I had been given and all that type of stuff,
And right, I'm turning around and coming home and telling
my kids, like, when you make a poor choice, you
tell me and we deal with the consequences, and.
Speaker 4 (34:55):
What a hypocrite.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Yeah, like I was living and then I'm like, wait, no,
at at one point in my kids' lives, they're gonna
do the timeline right, and they're gonna say, Okay, you know,
mom was in lead athlete, she was this, this, this,
and she made poor choices and then she had us
and then she was still telling lies but then telling
us not to lie. What No, pump the brakes. I
(35:21):
don't care what the consequences are gonna be, and it
certainly I didn't at that point know what they were
gonna be. But I don't care because this means more
to me than any of it.
Speaker 4 (35:30):
Right. If I lose it all, I lose it all.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
But at least I have the respect of my babies, right,
And that's I mean that was the catalyst. And so
now I can stand here and I go back to
this idea of pride knowing that my kids right, and
they're old enough now I have a twenty one, a seventeen,
and a fifteen, and they know the story right, and
(35:54):
that they when they dissect it all, if they haven't yet,
they will.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
Right.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
I've raised some incredible humans that are gonna make such
an incredible impact in the world. And what I am
most proud of in my life to having having to
do that and doing that.
Speaker 4 (36:12):
But now it's time. My quiet time is done. My
time now is to shout it right whoever needs to
hear it. People who weren't who are not even a
fan Ashland of sport, who could care less how fast
I ran, how many soccer balls you blocked, right, But.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
They now are in some shit and they need to
hear from somebody who has lived it that it's possible.
Speaker 4 (36:37):
To get out of it.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Yep, right, And that is the moment that you know
what I'm gonna shout. I don't care if there's still
doors slam Ashton, I don't care if there's some people
out there that are like and I.
Speaker 4 (36:48):
Don't want to hear from her she's a cheat, or.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
I don't want to hear from her because she lied,
okay by Felicia?
Speaker 4 (36:55):
Is that what now?
Speaker 3 (36:57):
Just unsubscribed?
Speaker 4 (36:58):
Right? Not? And my voice will not be stifled.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
I am not going to have as you talked about earlier,
like my narrative written for me anymore. So and so
and that is the moment right where ah you talk
about it, talk about strength, you talk about like that's
the fuel that gets me up now in all of it, Ashlyn,
and my my tone will change just for a millisecond.
(37:25):
I don't want anybody hearing this to think that that
they're not days, they're not moment that I that I
sit and I stew in it, right and then I
don't you know, there's not sadness and anger and humiliation
and embarrassment.
Speaker 4 (37:41):
It's not that. But I just don't stay there for
longer than however long, right.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
No, that grief, that grief still lives within you.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Days and that you just you're you're better equipped with
how to deal with.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
To handle it.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Yeah, I got to ask this as you say this,
it's just you know, I'm I'm you know, as we spoke,
you know a few weeks ago I am in the
journey now of my second wind, and you're so true
and sure of who you are, and you talk about
this really important moment where your mom puts, you know,
her hand on your shoulder and just shows you like
(38:17):
I'm here, like I got you and we're in this together.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Yeah, just grace.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Who showed up for you when everyone else left besides
your mom? Because that's been my biggest struggle. I'll be
real honest, that's been my biggest struggle is when all
this shit you know, happened and all these people it
opened the door all these opinions and expectations and who
you were and how you showed up as a mom
(38:45):
and your character who showed up when everyone else left?
Speaker 4 (38:52):
It's hard. It's not hard because I don't know.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
It's hard to express it because.
Speaker 4 (39:05):
People are people. And let me explain what I mean
by that. There are people along the way that were there.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Okay, they were there when it's convenient for them. And
what's hard about it is to think about it, right,
like to to know that even some.
Speaker 4 (39:35):
Of them are my friends now, right.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
So that's what's hard, right, is because it's not a
conversation that has been had with them because it's hard.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
And I want to say like, yeah, you were there,
but when it's convenient for you, right, And.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Yeah, mama, it makes for establishing a community of friends hard, right,
because like I mean, and if you have that, great,
but I find that like trust issues and people might
even turn it around and say, well, we don't trust
you married well, like I have a very very hard
(40:18):
time with establishing a circle because of my lack of
trust that when and if things go sour, people will
just disappear. I know, Mama's not disappearing. I know my brother.
I should have also said my brother and my mother
like they've always been there. But you know, and I
(40:38):
am confident that I have a partner now that's not
going to disappear. And now I have brought three kids
in the world and they're not disappearing.
Speaker 4 (40:46):
They need Venmo cash app all that. No, they're not
going anywhere.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
But damn and they're expensive.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
But beyond that, you know, there's just that that caution
to create a community whereby man, if hiccups happen in life,
and they do, and they will like who who is
going to be around for it all? And I'm confident
and I've put together some people now that will, but
(41:16):
there's always that and that's a that's a that's a
lonely place to live and to function and to grow
old with.
Speaker 4 (41:25):
And that's what I have to hold on to, you know.
So that's tough, that's hard. That's a really good question asked.
I've never been asking that.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
This is wide open and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris.
Speaker 3 (41:39):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
I feel like we connect on a lot of levels.
And you know, as you know, going through my second
wind right now, and I'm grieving in the process, I'm
parenting in the process, and I agree, I have moments
of great grief and shame.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
And you know, I have.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Two very young kids who see that, you know, and
I I it's hard, and sometimes it's okay just to say, man,
it's fucking hard.
Speaker 4 (42:14):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
And I'll tell you, though, Ashlyn, what in an incredible
role model you are in that even when we talked
a few weeks back and how you parents and who
you are and that you are so transparent when it
comes to your babies and to your kids, and for
(42:37):
me that was everything, right, like how all of this
would shape my kids' lives. Transparency, authenticity, that they see
the good days right with mom or mom, I don't
know what they're what they call it, Mama, I see
the good days, they see the hard days, they see
(42:59):
how you now to gate it, you talk them through it.
And as they get older, I know they're they're young,
but as you get older, like continue to do that,
just on a whatever level they're at. So I'm giving
you like high five, like thank you. We all need
we all need encouragement. And I and I'm here to say,
looking from the outside in and what you've shared and
what I've learned about you like you, that is the
(43:22):
example that you are setting that all of us can
look towards.
Speaker 4 (43:25):
So keep doing.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
Thank you for sure, Yeah, thank you for saying that.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
And I appreciate that, and I you know, I I'm
grateful that you said that, and you've taken the time
and I see a lot of myself and your struggle,
and it it humanizes it for me and and.
Speaker 3 (43:42):
It lets me know I'm gonna be okay too, no doubt.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
And I appreciate your vulnerability and your honesty and and
this is the big part, you know, and this is
the next part. I want to talk about your willingness
now to come out public and be in the public
eye again and really start talking about it, because if
you didn't choose to do that, we wouldn't be having
(44:08):
these incredible conversations and you know, just share space and
feelings if you chose to continue working on yourself behind
the scenes and not in the public eye. So I'll
want to ask that question because you did decide to
do Special Forces, which is such a course you did.
(44:30):
Of course you did Special Forces. I mean, what are
we talking about? But I want to know why you chose.
You know, you spoke about it a little a little bit.
I want to know why now have you made the
choice to really come out and talk about what you
went through and talk about your story and your life.
Speaker 4 (44:51):
Well, there are a lot of layers to that.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
I'll speak on the Special Forces opportunity in that.
Speaker 4 (45:03):
It was I don't know, it is God in some.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
Way because I had made the decision about a year
and a half ago that the story in my head
and heart and body wasn't helping anybody, right, like, just
stay in there, and how to strategically start to share
with people who I am, Why I am who I
(45:32):
More importantly, see myself becoming because I think we're all
a work in progress, yes, and like, yeah, how do
I do that authentically? I stem from a culture where
you don't really put your dirty laundry out there, right,
Like it's kind of looked looked down on to do that.
(45:56):
And then you start to realize, well, Mary, and you
need to come into you know, it's not going away.
So how do I leverage that in a way that
truly and truly shows who I am? Right, There's no
way that I could have come back on the scene
Ashland and not it not be authentic, right, Like.
Speaker 4 (46:16):
It almost had to be right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
And so the idea that when I came back on
I didn't even realize that it was a thing Ashland,
that that people didn't realize that I was out or whatever,
because for my time, you know, the decade that I
made the decision to be in my community and my
family and raise my kids, like I was out right,
like yeah, and so when I made a decision to
(46:40):
like be back in the world, it was almost like
somebody said, wait, you know, the world doesn't know that,
like you.
Speaker 4 (46:48):
Have a partner. I was like, oh, okay, so that's
I guess I got to share that so that and
so it was it was almost like a flippant type
thing that I'm like, hey, y'all, it's pride, this last
year pride or something like, it's pride, and and it
really resonates with me because right, this is who I am.
And again, the reason that I think it came across
(47:11):
so authentically was because it wasn't a thing yo, like,
this is it. But the Special Forces thing was important
because one we crave and I know you experienced this
as well, but I need some type of physical challenge.
It's I guess I need that. It's in my it's
(47:31):
in my DNA.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
And and having having had to distance myself from it,
like competitively for lots of reasons, but also because of
age and injury and grade four arthritis in both knees
and that type of stuff, and I.
Speaker 4 (47:48):
Moved away from.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
It, but it's still ah, right, Like, the Special Forces
was a very interesting for me, and that I would
be challenged physically, I would be child emotionally and mentally,
and it would give me a platform to be able
to say, yo, I'm back, this is who I am,
(48:10):
this is where I'm at.
Speaker 4 (48:12):
And so that's what I made the decision.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
To do it, and it checked all of those boxes,
and I felt, you know, anytime you I have a
love hate relationship with the media, understanding and making the
decision right. Making the decision, Ashley, though, to sign up
for a show whereby I don't have editing rights was
(48:37):
a scary one because at the end of the day,
I don't know how they can edit however they want
to make whomever look like.
Speaker 4 (48:46):
Like a god or the devil, right, And so by.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
Making the decision and putting myself back out there and
making that scary choice that Okay, I'm gonna like put
it in the hands of somebody else.
Speaker 4 (48:59):
I'm gonna be who I am on the show.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
But ultimately, let me see, let me turn on the
TV and see whom they decide to create.
Speaker 4 (49:06):
Me to be.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
Yeah, And you know what I was able to say
at the end of the day, good decision, Mary, because
whatever they saw in how I was on the show
and how I competed and how I fought and and
was what they saw and what they made and what
they decided to portray to the world.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
And you really did show that to the world. And
I want to say thank you. I appreciate all the
things that you show up and continue to do to
make this world better. And it really shows me that
your journey, this whole redemption thing about like erasing the past,
(49:50):
it's really not about that.
Speaker 3 (49:52):
It's the bravery.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
To rise again and to grow and to lead with
honesty and love.
Speaker 3 (49:57):
And a lot of people see that in you.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
You and you heal them in the process of the
things that they're having to be honest and brave about.
Speaker 3 (50:06):
So I have to say thank you.
Speaker 4 (50:08):
And that makes it worth it, Ashlyn, Right, it makes
our dark days or even our current dark days, it
makes it worth it when people see that, and maybe
they are inspired by it, maybe they're inspired to make
some type of change in their own life. Like that
to me makes it worth it. Like like we were
meant here, We were meant to be here to be
(50:31):
an example. Right, Yes, that's what we and I include
you in this, Ashley, that's what we are doing.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
So yeay, yep, second win, second chances. It's just it's
about courage and bravery. So thank you for for being
that for us, and thanks for being on wide open
and and I'm grateful for your story and all of it.
Speaker 4 (50:54):
Yeah, thank you. Ashlyn, it's been, it's been.
Speaker 3 (50:56):
You're the best. Thank you.
Speaker 4 (50:57):
You bring me back and we can talk all of Yes, Okay.
Speaker 3 (51:00):
Let's do it. Yes, let's do it. Thanks everybody for
tuning in.
Speaker 1 (51:05):
Marion again, thank you for your vulnerability, Thank you for
being wide open, and please tell everyone about your podcast
and where they can check you out.
Speaker 2 (51:12):
Yeah, check out Second Wind anywhere. If you listen to
your podcast, Ashlan will be on the show. Yes, exited
to be able to share all the goodness that you
all already that are listening know that she is, but
to be able to.
Speaker 4 (51:28):
Give talk to you about it, it was a pleasure.
So thank you, Thank.
Speaker 3 (51:31):
You, appreciate it. Go heels yay, go heels.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
Wide Open with Ashland Harris is an iHeart women's sports production.
You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (51:49):
Our producers are.
Speaker 1 (51:50):
Carmen Borca Correo, Emily Maronov, and Lucy Jones. Production assistants
from Malia Aguidello. Our executive produce users are Jesse Katz,
Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Jenny Kaplan
and Emily Rudder and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris,
Host
Ashlyn Harris
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