April 11, 2024 • 57 mins
Broadway star and Academy Award-winning actress Ariana DeBose is taking on a new challenge...advocating for voting rights!
Ariana joins Sophia to talk about her journey with identity as a queer Afro-Latina, how she got into showbiz, and what it was like working in Broadway shows for years, including "Hamilton," before hitting the big screen in the movie that 'changed her life,' Steven Spielberg's "West Side Story." She also reveals what she told the famed director before joining the cast, the types of projects she is working on now, and having the courage to pursue magic!
Plus, Ariana talks about her important new role as ACLU Artist Ambassador for Voting Rights and what's at stake this election year! For more info, follow @aclu_nationwide on Instagram and vote.org.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi everyone, It's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome
back to Work in Progress friends. This week we have
a guest who I've been a fan of for what
(00:21):
feels like forever. Ariana Debos is an award winning actress.
She is known for varying roles on stage, in film
and television. I was lucky enough to see her in
the original cast of Hamilton in New York on Broadway.
I was so blown away by her, and she has
just continued this breathtaking trajectory, winning an Academy Award in
(00:44):
addition to a BAFTA for her performance in Steven Spielberg's
reimagining A Westside Story. She played Anita so beautifully, and
she also in the midst of you know, doing such
an iconic role in such an iconic film and winning
an Oscar for it happened to make history because she
became the first openly queer Afro Latina to win an
(01:06):
Academy Award. She's an absolute legend, and not only is
she following up that project with incredible films other plays,
hosting the Tony Awards not once but twice in two years,
being nominated for Emmy's I Mean The list literally goes
on and on and on, but she is doing something
that is so close to her heart and mind. Arianna
(01:29):
has taken a role as the acl USE Artist Ambassador
to advocate for voting rights. She is doing incredible work
making sure we all have the right to vote and
also helping the ACLU to debunk myths and provide trusted
information in a year where it is more important than ever.
So today we're going to chat about Broadway art, identity, voting,
(01:53):
and probably plenty more things that make us feel excited, inspired,
and motivated for the year ahead. Let's get to it.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Hi, how are you?
Speaker 1 (02:14):
I'm good. I'm so happy that you're here, and like
just the overlap that we have with some of our
favorite friends. I'm just like I have not gotten to
spend time with her, but I love her the same.
I'm is there anything that you want to know? Is
there anything that you want to definitely talk about?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Not really, I feel like I mean, I don't I
don't claim to be an expert in anything.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
I'm just like a human, so same.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
I always like provided disclaimer on anything, Like, guys, I'm
just my perspective and experience, but I could be wrong
and that's okay.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Yeah, it's kind of amazing when you learn more and
then change your mind or just like expand your opinion.
I think that Isn't that an interesting thing about our
lives too, is like now, because everything is so online,
it's almost like, yeah, supposedly every time you have a thought,
you're declaring who you are. And it's like, right, we're not,
(03:15):
or we're just all on this journey together learning yep,
And yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
Well I said that, like the thing about America, you're
supposed to be able to like change your mind, have
an opinion all the things.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
It's one of the things I feel like I can
say to you because I know you are also such
an activist and an advocate. Like when you say, isn't
that the thing about this country? I think yes. I
think it's baked into even the ideals of who we
are because we had these incredible founding ideals that even
the Founding fathers, who were by no means perfect, to
(03:54):
have a whole lot of you know, skeletons in and
out of their closets. They were like, we're going to
do the most progressive thing that's been done in history.
And we know we're not even building it the right
way yet. So we're going to bake change into the foundation.
It's what James Baldwin said, Like, I love this country,
and therefore I criticize her. I want to bring her
(04:16):
her Yes, Like I need to hold her to the
standards that she says are hers, and I think the
job of our generations is to get ever closer to
the actual execution of those ideals.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Yeah, it's like, that's why they created living documents.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
It's okay, Like anybody who wants to be better than
they were the day before, they like I constantly like
check myself.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
I ask the questions, critique, you know.
Speaker 5 (04:42):
What I mean, like self interrogation, you self interrogation, take
the notes, you know, Like I feel like our you know,
we're as well.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
I'm sadly recording this because it's probably Yeah, I just
feel like.
Speaker 6 (05:00):
You know, that's part of what being a citizen of
the United States is, you know, like you are if
you are really being active and noticing it.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
It's like, no, we're not always going to get it right.
The whole point of voting is so that you can
participate in the critique and the making better of the
world that you live in and you know, for me,
being a sleep in that process is not really an option,
partially because my identity demands that I stay awake.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Yes, and yeah, okay, so this is this is cool
because we dove in we and I actually think that
this is a moment that connects us well to what's
normally my first question. But I was just like, you
also want to change the world. Tell me all about
it when you think about that perspective, Like, you stand
(05:53):
as this incredibly accomplished woman, and what you have achieved
is breathtaking, and the way you use your platform as breathtaking,
and you you are also very aware of how your
identity requires you to spend the privilege of a platform
like this when you I always like to know, you know,
(06:15):
when I sit across from somebody who like has an
Academy award on their shelf, I'm like, I'm like, do
you see Like do you see Ariana today? If you
were to like hang out with your eight year old self,
would you see the through lines of who you are?
Or were you into completely different things when you were little?
Like how is it now for you to look back
(06:37):
on yourself?
Speaker 3 (06:40):
You know, it's funny I look at if looking at
my eight year old self, I could see how she
got here. It's I mean, I say that like really assuredly,
but I really can. Like I was a very creative child,
you know. And I was the type of kid like
when I would when I was born and my mom
and I live with my grandmother, and I'm an only child.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
There's racist an only child, and yeah, what do you do?
Only children? We have to find ways to entertain ourselves.
We sure do, we sure do. So I would like
go outside.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
We lived in like an apartment complex, and I'd go
outside and there were these staircases, and I made the
staircase like my stage, and I would just give shows
for myself and like make it up songs or singing
songs like her. And I'd like be like, oh, what
if I did this dance step going downstairs? And like
(07:38):
the neighbors would sort of look through the window and
I would wave at them, and they were great about it.
But look, I mean I think about it now, I'm like, Wow,
they must have thought, Wow, she's really going.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
For it, that little girl just belting it out.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Just belting it out, like but it I don't know
that that sort of endless like childlife like curiosity and
the need to express because that's really what it was.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
I wanted to find a place to put my emotions
or you know.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
I remember when Titanic came out that you know, Celine
Dion's my heart will go on, like eight year old
Lorianta or however old I was, like she was belting
it out on the staircase, like really believing that she
was on.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
The Titanic in.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
The front ofership with the sunset and the wind and
the singing and the chest pounds, Like there's a lot
of that young person that is still inside of me.
But also, you know, my mom is a public school teacher.
Speaker 7 (08:44):
She's an educator, and again she raised me as a
single parent, and there were I was surrounded by educators
and predominantly female educators for that matter, and so it
took it really took a village to raise me.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
But as you can see, I'm the brown, the brown,
but I'm a black woman.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
In the United States of America, some people would look
at me and be like, oh, she's brown, and I'm like, yeah,
but I'm black.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
I am an Afro Latina and my mom is white.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
So and I was raised by her side of the
family really and our extended like chosen family. So my
father that that brings the Latini dad to my existence
was not present. So Spanish was not spoken in my home.
I was not raised eating the food at all times
that are cultural to my identity, and so I I
(09:42):
didn't come to that portion of my identity of really
having the opportunity to dig into that as much until
my adulthood. So there was sort of a disconnect in
my childhood. I didn't and I hate the way this,
but it is my reality.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
I did not see color for.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
The longest time, and I didn't really have a concept
of race. I could hear tone, like if I'm in
the grocery stores with my mom as a kid, and
you know, someone says something that doesn't sound very nice
or throws us a look that is not very inviting
or is judgmental. I could discern those types of things,
(10:27):
but it wasn't really until you know, I was, you know,
very much in school that I really started to process
all of that. And as we know, they don't put
a lot of the realities of certain things in textbooks.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
So but thank.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
God I had an educator for a parent who helped
supplement all of that, you know, And she did go
the extra mile understanding that she has a child of color,
and she needed to explain certain things to me, you know,
and really give me an understanding of racism, even though
(11:06):
in my mind.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
I wasn't processing, if that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
I knew what racism was, but I felt like the
civil rights movement was so far away because it was
in a book, you know. And so then as I'm
as I was developing as an adult or becoming an
adult and moving to New York City and seeing the
realities of the world, and like, no, the civil rights
(11:31):
movement ain't that movement is not that far away.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
In fact, she's fresh, Yes, she's still fresh.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Well, And when you consider the fact speaking of your
mom as an educator, like Ruby Bridgers is still alive,
that little girl who had to be escorted by state
troopers into her school at the age of five, in
her little Mary Jane's and little bows in her hair,
like she's younger than my mom. And so I think
(11:58):
it's so interesting to hear hear you the way you
talk about this, because I know that for me, what
feels like the experience of our generation is the waking
up to what we were taught as children lived in
books is actually our present day experience that remains reverberating.
(12:21):
And I don't know if I put myself in your
mom's shoes, like to think back to when you were
a little kid, and we weren't having, you know, common
conversations about intersectionality. We weren't, we were we were in
that process. Like what an incredible thing that, as you said,
your mom was an educator who had the wherewithal to say,
(12:43):
I'm a white woman raising a daughter of color whose
identity is also intersectional. And like, of course you've had
a journey and thank god she was your mom, Like whoa,
what a? What an experience? Was was moving to New
York because of how diverse it is and because of
(13:05):
how diverse artists communities are. Like did that feel like
a homecoming or a wake up call? Or both both?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
To be honest, I felt like both.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
I feel like, you know, my journey with the Broadway
community has been.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Wonderful and also fascinating.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
I think, you know, I was I came under what
felt like to me living in the experience of it.
I felt like I came under a lot of criticism
that I was like the white black girl.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
I didn't sound black enough.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
I didn't sing black enough, I didn't really dance black enough.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Like I just really wasn't black enough.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
In fact, there were several nights I'd be out and
about with artists and there would be people who would
try to tell me about myself and my own blackness,
and I was never afforded the in those spaces, I
was not afforded the opportunity to defend myself. It was
never welcomed for me to explain anything. It was just
(14:11):
assumed that I was elitist or thought I was better
than everyone else, when in actuality, what was really happening
was I was trying to find community.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
You know, I would ask, for example, like I would
ask a question.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
You know, every culture has its own language, its own
like euphemisms or whatnot, and like.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Sometimes I'll be perfectly frank.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Sometimes there were moments, especially when I was eighteen and
fresh in New York and even into my second Broadway show,
like where I didn't understand something and so I'd asked
the question and they'd be like, what the hell, Oh
so not really black, And I'm like, what does what
does that mean, like when I walk down the street,
(14:55):
I'm very I mean, the cops don't see a difference
between me and you, so I don't.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
I don't get it. So things like that, and so
that was very jarring for me, And.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
To be honest, sometimes I still like have to chet
that one out in therapy, like I don't because I don't.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
I went the first person to say.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
You know, being a member of both the black community
and the Hispanic community, it's like, yeah, there's there's colorism.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Is a thing.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
There's interdimensional prejudice that is going on for very different reasons,
and sometimes you really have to sit down and unpack
what that is, and it's it can be really hard
because it's pitting the community against each other.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
And then and also those two communities.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
In particular, it's like they get pit against each other
all the time when in reality it's like we should
be working together. I'm really unclear, and yet we're still
arguing about minutia and not that the minutia is not important,
but given the world that we live in, can we
not find our common ground and elevate that first?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
You know, like, is are there? I don't.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
I would I wish that we as communities could have
those conversations and like see our differences or the beauty
of the minutia as like these make us individual, but
these things bring us together. And sometimes that's not the
standpoint that's taken. I will be the first to admit that.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
And now a word from our wonderful sponsors, And what
a hard thing it must be to be growing up,
growing into yourself, wanting to amass more understanding of your
(16:53):
multi identities, and in a way to be told that
your multiness is the problem. You're like that this is me,
Like I live here, I'm literally this.
Speaker 8 (17:03):
Person every day and it's the you know what I
look back on and like my first experiences in New
York and because I was so hungry for community and like.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
And to be honest, like coming to New.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
York and and finding as an artist and finding the
Broadway community also was one of the best things that
could happen to me.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
But I think when you are like developing and trying.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
To embrace who you are, what is interesting is that
for me, it put me in a place where I
allowed people to tell me who I was, and I
am innately and aquarius, and I don't do well authority figures.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
But I look back on it now and I'm like, oh,
but I let people try to tell me which box
I could be in, which also created issues because I
butt heads against that.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
So I was sort of cultivating this like cycle of
of unhappy.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Which is not unlike voting rights.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Because it's so weird that they all sort of tied
together really anything.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
But I feel like it's I look at it.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Now and I think I I started finding a flow
in my life when I embraced all of the things
that make me me and instead of trying to like
put a lid on some things by owning them, it
allowed me to actually live my most authentic life and
(18:31):
I've found happiness in my life. That doesn't mean that
everything's cupcakes and sprinkles. It's not.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
But there became a flow, and so I could find
the spaces that were meant for me. You know.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
It's almost like I had to be ready to accept
all of that, that there was going to be good
with the bad, and you were never going to be
able to cookie cut yourself down enough to be acceptable.
It's like, I don't I don't fox with palatability anymore.
I think that's death to creativity, palatability, bye, goodbye.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
But that's such an experience of stepping into power. And
it's like, you know, we clearly don't have the same
experience as young women finding our artistry and our specificity.
But like I'm hearing you talk about this, and I'm like, girl,
yes to so much of it. I you know, at
twenty one, moved for my first big job and moved
(19:30):
to a very small town and felt very isolated and
really wanted to be an adult and really wanted to
prove that I was good enough, really wanted to do
all the things right. And you know, I carried all
my familial and childhood trauma with me and I wanted
to like build a life and do a thing. And
I didn't have anybody saying if what is offered around
(19:53):
you doesn't feel like enough, go out and seek it.
I was sort of like, Okay, well, if these are
the five forks I get to choose from all time,
do this and if this, and I would I built
a life to be like kind and a good team
player and palatable and things, and wasn't good for me.
It's a it's a journey, I think, to discover how
(20:16):
to seek more, how to be grateful for what it is,
but like not give up on yourself a little bit,
not shrink yourself a little bit. And people especially don't
like when women don't shrink themselves, And they especially don't
like when we don't shrink ourselves and we're political. Like
for them, it's, oh yeah, they just they melt down.
But like, even when I think about your art, like
(20:39):
your identity is inherently political, your art has been political,
Like hello, you were part of the original cast of Hamilton,
Like you made politics pop culture in this like beautiful way,
in a way that claimed diversity, chose diversity, Like what
what was that like? Because by the way, I remember
(21:00):
like early days and I'm like, this is the most
inspiring thing I've ever seen. All I care about is
like the actual potential of the realization of the American Documents?
Does everybody know? Like do people know? And then I remember,
like within four weeks I wanted to bring a bunch
of friends back and like couldn't get tickets for four months,
And I was like, Okay, everybody knows, Like, and what
(21:20):
was it like to be in it? Because I know,
as an audience member and a fan, I was just
like melting down. And I was like you as a
kid on the staircase, like wapping around in my car
with the windows down, singing along to you guys, Like
what what did it feel like to be in it?
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Oh? I mean.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
I could say it was wild?
Speaker 9 (21:40):
You know.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Yeah, I think.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
I don't know if you, if you speak to any
members of the original cast, I don't know that we
have good words for it because it felt so singular,
to be honest, but you're but what what you what
you said is exactly what we did, Like.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
We made are political.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
It's like how it's so rare that you get like
every you know, you get presidents to Broadway, like what
the Secretary of State is coming to Broadway, like you know,
like senators.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Actively want to see this.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
It like it made you know, art, It gave art
a different platform, and it certainly gave Broadway a different
a different audience, you know, And I think that was
really cool and there there, It wasn't a you could
be in your seventies or eighties and still love Hamilton.
You could be a child and love Hamilton for different reasons.
(22:31):
But the messaging behind it, the diversity, spoke to the
you know, facing some truths about women.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Women in the sake wall work, you.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Know, like there was there was a lot in there
that I think, you know, created a different synergy and
showed a lot of people as possible.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
I think.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Fighting personally fighting the Revolutionary War eight times a week
was really hard. Girl.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
I thought about you guys again, because it's just like
one of the shows I've seen the most times. And
I did a play like a straight play on the
West End in twenty ty three, and I would get
to the end of a five show weekend and literally collapse,
and I was like, wait, I have friends who do
this and they sing and dance like wow, you like
(23:26):
I look at you now like a person with superpowers.
It's incredible.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
It's the wildest thing. I will always say that like
Broadway in like theater theater in general. If you're if
you're doing theater at a high.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Level, which the West End is, is so like more
power to you.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
It was so cool.
Speaker 10 (23:45):
It was also doing straight plays on the West End
I find just inherently intimidating because like the Brits, they
they know thet all, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Oh great?
Speaker 1 (23:56):
It was the one American in the play, and I
was like, cool, no pressure, I'm going to be Oh
my god, I heard you great though.
Speaker 11 (24:04):
Actually I'm sad I missed it, but I heard you
were absolutely wonderful, So go you.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
I loved every minute of it. I was crushed when
I got like, you know, as so many people did,
like hit so hard, pandemic, yeah, sickness that I was like, oh,
I'm actually like too sick to keep working. I've never
had this happen before. I've left the hospital and gone
back to set. What do you mean I have to go?
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Do you mean? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (24:28):
But the months that I got to be there and
do it, it gave me the bug in such an
intense way. And now I'm like, what's my next.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
Playing to be?
Speaker 1 (24:35):
I need it.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
I'm really need it. Okay, now, okay, gool gool cool.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
So if you want to do a straight play straight already.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
You're great. All right, I'm going to keep the lookout. Okay,
you heard it here first, everyone.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Let's go to Broadway.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Broadway. No, but I do think what was I saying? Oh?
Speaker 3 (24:56):
I do think there's no training like.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Like doing theater. It's a different kind of stamina, it's
a different kind of work.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
Ethic, you know, and I had the privilege of doing
like six Broadway shows almost back to back.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Wow, yeah, you never stopped.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
I didn't, and I'm very grateful.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
You know. I got some great advice when I was
doing my first Broadway show. I ran into Judith Light
who is my favorite humans on the world in the
Planet Icon, and she was like, just say yes, just
keep saying yes.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
You will.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
You will learn something from every show that you do.
And the lesson may be easy, the lesson may be hard,
but you will learn. And you will always have an
income because you know, I didn't go to university for
what I do.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
I think people like assume.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
That maybe I went to Juilliard or maybe I went
to you know, a really great.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Like a conservatory, a conservatory, thank you.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Nope, did not, did not. I I graduated in two
thousand and nine. So there just wasn't any money any
the recession.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
No, like they always say, like the bubble burst in
two thousand and eight.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Yes it did, it did, and it there was no
money for scholarships. And again I single parent home with
a public school teacher salary. It's like there, we barely
had money for you go to a state school, you
know what I mean. I was reliant on scholarships even
in my when I was training, Like I went to
(26:25):
a competitive dance studio and received incredible training, but I
worked as a teacher's assistant to pay off some of
my basic tuition.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
And then every time we went.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
To like a convention, competition or something, I took them
very seriously because in the class portion of the convention
I wanted to do well. It was very focused, not
to my detriment, but I knew that if I didn't
get a scholarship, nine times out of ten, I would
not be coming back the next year because we could
not afford it. So like, dance was such a savior
(26:57):
to me because it gave me a structure for my life.
I found something I loved and I was willing to
do the work to so that my opportunities would continue
to advance. Like yeah, I could keep the doors open.
And you know, there at one point in my life
there was a very privileged white woman said to me, like,
(27:18):
you're so privileged because you had a white mom. And
I was like, in what way do you think that
I was privileged? I lived in a small town. We
for a time, we lived in subsidized housing, and people
really look down on my mom because she had a
brown child or a black child, And.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
So I'm I don't get it.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
Like if the cops stopped us and saw me, there's
like a myriad of questions. Even sometimes you know, white
women in the in the grocery store, like would say
some things like is that your child? Like her students
at times were like are you adopted? Like there was
always this question around what I came to believe my validity.
And now that does not mean that we had it
(27:59):
harder than absolutely everybody. That is not what I'm saying.
I am saying that as a child, I understood that
there were differences, and no, my mom did not have
an easy time of it, and perhaps at times my
identity might have made it harder, you know, but like
she's my mother, and she loved me, and she busted
(28:21):
her butt to give me a good life. But whiteness
at times does not always translate to privilege. And I
think there are will always be an inherent privilege to whiteness.
But given my identity and the life that I lived
growing up, I saw some real times where it was
not helpful. The whiteness did not play come into play
(28:43):
as a helpful factor, if that makes.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Sense, and there are there are people who have trouble here.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
It's so odd to me. I don't understand why people
want to always couch what others have gone through. It's like,
why why would someone even feel the need to say
that to you, because then, by the way, you're required
to do the emotional labor of educating someone to be like,
(29:11):
you know what, I, because I lived with my mother,
might have had proximity to a version of her privilege,
but I also was very aware of how that privilege
didn't extend to me because I don't look like my mother. Like,
just the fact that you have to sit and say
that to somebody is like, God, it's exhausting say that.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Oh it was exhausting, and to this day at times
it is exhausting.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
But it's like, I share that with you in this
moment because I also am like, but yes, podcast, people
love this podcast and maybe they never thought about that,
And I'm like, I don't have a problem sharing, but
in the moments where it's like, oh God, controversial again,
I don't care about being palata well anymore.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
I'll just say it. If that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Yeah, and now a word from our sponsors that I
really enjoy and I think will too. Well, that's the thing, Like,
I think we have to be as frank as possible
about reality if we ever hope to create better ones,
(30:16):
and to your point, like, okay, if we want to
rally the troops for a better America, we want to
make this country live up to its ideals. Actually, us
women should be mobilizing fifty one percent of the population, like,
let's go. But we have to be willing to hear
the different experiences of the women. Like if we're all
(30:41):
in a pool, then we're a bunch of buckets in
a pool. And if I don't know anything about what
you go through, or I'm not willing to hear what
you go through, or I'm not curious about what you
go through, not only am I doing a disservice to
you in our relationship, I'm also making myself more ignorant.
So I'm going to advocate us well for you and
(31:01):
for me, Like come on, we should just we should
just be willing. Yeah, not dissimilarly to a good script, right,
like to our friends at home. You hear me talk
about this a lot with other actors. Like how a
really good movie or TV show will make they will
tell someone's specific story. And when you do specificity really well,
(31:24):
everyone identifies with it because it's also universal. And like,
we only create a good universal outcome if we are
willing to pay attention to everybody's specificity and then design
an outcome that supports us all.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
And honestly, you say it so plainly, I'm like this, yeah, God,
just that it's pretty.
Speaker 11 (31:44):
It seems so simple to me, which is also why
I was just like, you know, I'm I I knowing
my I mean, why my life, So I know my journey,
but like knowing all these different like mile markers in
my life, it's like, Okay, I want to I want
to try.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
And cultivate community in the ways that I might not
have had growing up, you know what I mean. And
and so I try to choose my art from that standpoint,
like who can this speak to?
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Or how how can my presence be a value?
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Add Like, I'm not someone who just like inserts myself.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Just because like I'm very intentional.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
About things when I like, I think that's very important.
But that's also why I think about like just to
sort of whack because like I know, I.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Tell you realness, I.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
Especially on a day like today, But I think when
I think about my idea, my my identity, my my journey,
I'm an artist, and they all work together and like
sometimes separating because I think clarity about like what is
going on with your identity and your work because people
like to confuse the two is very important. But that's
(33:04):
how I come back to like who am I as
a human and what am I trying to do with
this platform that I've been given?
Speaker 2 (33:11):
So for me when I was like, oh, I love
the ACLU, why because they are.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Not They're advocating for all of us.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
I think that's really important.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
They're advocating for everyone, even the people, and that's the
beauty of being an American, Like I don't always have
to agree with my fellow American, but I do believe
that we all have a place here in this country
and we all have the right to be heard.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
And so I was like, I can get down. I
love that, let's go.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
That also takes a certain willingness to self interrogate and
to hold yourself to the standards you say you believe
it to say, like I really do not agree yes,
with this person's bigoted opinion. But guess what, I'm the
first amendment they're allowed to say it. So what am
I going to do to support the people they might
be verbally attacked? How am I going to build a
(34:01):
better system? How am I gonna allow them to be
who they are whether I agree or not? And then
make sure I'm defending the people who their rights might harm?
Like that takes a bigness. And you know, again, when
you talk about your identity, your journey, your work, like
I think about you being in the original cast of Hamilton,
(34:23):
I think about you as this woman who lives at
the intersections you live at. In twenty twenty two, by
the way, like talk about how history is now you
became the very first queer woman of color to win
an Academy Award for West Side Story. And you know
you're talking about how as a kid you didn't grow
up speaking Spanish, Like what has it been like to
(34:44):
lean back into your culture? Have you learned your language?
How have you built that community? Would it feel like
to stand up and do that job and then get
like the best award?
Speaker 2 (34:57):
It to what I see, the.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Exact thing you were just talking about about how all
these pieces of you come back to connect. Does it
Does it feel like that from the inside? Does it
feel like a homecoming?
Speaker 2 (35:11):
You know? I mean, here's the thing about homecomings.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
Sometimes they're uncomfortable and that's okay, that's that's that's life.
So the journey with West Side Story was both highly
uncomfortable and cathartic and wonderful and shiny. It was all
of it. But I think the only way that I
was I did what I always do. Yeah, I came
(35:38):
to it authentically. It's like the very first day I
met Steven Spielberg, he was like, so, what do you
want me to know? And I was like, well, I
want you to know that I'm Afro Latina. I am
a black woman who is Hispanic. And he was like
and I was like, yeah, I know, I know, but
like it's real and and that if you were not
willing to, you know, explore that and the content because
(36:00):
of the making of your movie, then don't hire me.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
That's what I said to him. And he just sort
of was like, thank you for your honesty.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
And I was like, and I'm also going to tell
you that I did not grow up with Spanish spoken
in my home so I took it in high school.
I was pretty good at it, but like, this is
going to be work for me, and also my dad.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Is not in my life. And he was like, ah,
thank you for.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Your honesty, and I appreciate, Like I was always honest
about who I.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Was, you know, and who I am, Like there's no
need to not be for me.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
But I went into it with like, this may not
be good enough for you, you know I was, And honestly
I was ready for you to be like it's not
like you're not you don't look like Rita Moreno, you
don't look like Cheter of Vera.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Your background is not good enough, you know.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
I was ready to have all of those normal things
that I've thrown it in my face every traditionally, and
he didn't do that. And so from there on it
made it like it it gave me permission to continue
to bring the fullness of my identity to that job.
And so then when being the first openly queer woman
of color to win an Academy award was incredibly special
(37:08):
because every part of the process was that, like, I
never had to be anything but who I am, you know,
and if I had a thought I could share it.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
You know, I'm opinionated. I share my opinion.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
I believe I share my opinions in a way that
does not smack someone else down. That is not the
point of me sharing an opinion, but I share it
from the space of let's open up the opportunities, the horizons,
like maybe there are several different paths we could go down,
and if we commit to one without first considering these
other things, like what are we even doing?
Speaker 9 (37:43):
Sometimes but it was wild and but the short answer
to your question was no, it didn't always feel good,
but it was.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
The whole process was totally mine and it complete.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
I got to completely embody and own it every step
of the way. So the uncomfortability I owned, the celebration
of it I owned. And you know, during that process,
I discovered I got to do some family digging and
my Hispanic roots come from sant Thorse, the little barrio's
outside of San Juan, though my father's family is from Santors.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Like I took the Spanish lessons I was and to.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
Be honest, I'll be candid and like I'm I have
a musical ear.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
My accent is good.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
But like language, when you don't learn it from a
young age. It's use it or lose it, and it's hard.
And so I still get anxiety in Spanish speaking spaces
when I know what's being said and I can't think
quick enough to respond in Spanish, like it kills me
and I want to cry, and I turned into five
year old arid like isn't good enough. It's very hard
(38:54):
for me, But I still try well, and I think
that's important. Part is like you have to make the
effort well.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
And what I hear you saying really is like you're
advocating for the fullness of yourself in yourself, and I
don't think it's accidental that you are such an advocate
for other people too. Like that passion to lean in,
you know, tracks for what we were just speaking about
(39:23):
with the ACLU, and like for you to be on
your journey and simultaneously want to go on a journey
for everyone, for us, for people's rights, like you sit.
You know today you're the newest voting rights ambassador for
the ACLU, and you mentioned they defend everybody. They do
all the good work, they make sure everybody has access
(39:45):
to the same rights. But we know that voting rights
in particular have been so under attack and what made
you want to jump into this? And is there like,
you know, being being the resident expert on this call, like,
is there a little overview you can give to our
friends who are listening at home, because I know that
(40:05):
so many people in my audience are like it feels
like everything keeps getting worse.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
What do we do?
Speaker 1 (40:10):
And you actually have some steps of things we can
really do to you know, be here for each other.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
Yeah, well, I mean I wanted to jump in because
I just felt like so my identity again sort of
like demanded it in a way.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
And I care about people. I really do. Even once
I disagree with I still care about you. I want
you to have a good life, even if you don't
want that for me.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
But it's like, I'm also passionate about young people, and
I feel like when I watch our you know, our
rights in.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
General get like dwindled down, and it's it for me.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
I look at it, and I'm like, you just trying
to put people in boxes and I'm so not here
for it. You want You're like, we've we've changed the
narratives so much to try and kind of keep people
small and keep them from asking questions and so for me,
the basis of my ambassadorship really starts there. It's like,
I don't think there's a single dumb question when it
(41:06):
comes to voting rights.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
I think you should ask them all, even the ones.
Speaker 3 (41:11):
That you're like, this may not have anything to do
with anything, but I'm gonna ask it, like I want
to sort of demystify that, you know, and just ask
the questions.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
People may have and the ones that I have, also
knowing that I may not have.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
The answer, but an organization like the ACLU probably does
and they can explain things like I.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Know, I was reading, you know, which is hard. Reading
the news is hard, or listening.
Speaker 3 (41:40):
To it can be like debilitating and depressing. But I
was reading a lot of these you know, decisions that
were coming down from the Supreme Court, and I was like,
oh gosh, this is like so much and this language
is so like heavy and honestly makes me feel really dumb,
and everything in me just wants to like not read.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
But I know I need to.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
And so that's when I would like call up my girl,
just go over at the assau like what does this mean?
And she was like, oh, let me prefer you to
so and so and they can tell you. And I
was like, that's what we should be doing. Like when
these decisions come down that it's hard to understand.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
I want to be like, hey, this thing happens, and
I'm pretty sure it.
Speaker 3 (42:20):
Affects so and so in Arkansas, or this came down
from the eighth circuit course, and who does this effect?
And I want to ask those questions and see how
we can open up the conversation or at least make
the facts easier to digest.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
And again, just remind folks there are no stupid questions.
Speaker 3 (42:39):
But the only dumb questions or stupid questions are the
ones you don't ask and you don't try to find
the answer to. And so I'm sort of putting myself
in that space, you know.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
And also I know you know all about that, because like, hell,
I have been an for a long long time.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
Thank you. I look, I think we're all in this together.
And yes, it is so important as as we were
talking about earlier, like when you when you managed to
have a platform because of what you do, like you
got to do good with it. So when you talk
about all of the things that you know you've been
learning and the questions you've been asking of the folks
at the ACLU. We are in an election year, are
(43:17):
there any myths that you want to set straight or
any any fun facts you want to give to people.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
Oh that's a really interesting question, you know what I think.
Speaker 3 (43:29):
I think there there's the and this is a large
like a larger conversation, but I think a lot of
people are like, oh, well, the presidential election is the
only one that matters.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Now.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
I know you've talked about this on your podcast and
like that's.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
Not the truth. Yeah, it is so not the truth.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
Like it doesn't matter it, it does not I'm not
here to tell you who to vote for it when
it comes to the presidential election, but I am here
to like remind you that, like anything that is like
important to your life whatever, you're showing up to the
pole four right, nine times out of ten, those local
elections are real important, my friends.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
And we don't think of that because what's in the
news so.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
Often is these bigger, these bigger elections.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
And so that's part of it.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
I mean that just reminding people that, like it takes
work to be a voter. Voting is not easy, and
the institutions that surround us don't make it easier for us.
It does take time, effort and planning. For the longest time,
even myself, I don't even know how to find the
(44:37):
correct websites for certain things like how do I find
people's platforms?
Speaker 2 (44:41):
Like what is even on my ballot? And then I
did find resources like I am a voter.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
But you have to do that work and you have
to want to to to have your voice heard. And
the reality is it does matter. It really does matter,
and it matters more in election years like this year.
Every year it matters.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
But when you have so.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
Many they ticket items on the ballot, if you don't
show up and.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
Vote, then for me, I'm just like that, then we're
not we're not seeing the fullness of our democracy.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
Yeah, take hold and again because I vote, it in
my mind is my own personal opinion. Now I can
reserve the right to really criticize my country, like I
will go ham at her Yes because I showed up
to vote.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
Yes, because I did my part.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
And now for our sponsors. The way I think about
it too, is like voting is a it's a relationship.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
You know, that's nice.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
Like democracy to me is a verb, like love is
a verb. It is an action an action. It is
so important to take that action because your entire life
is governed by policy. Your experience, the roads you drive on,
whether or not they have potholes, whether or not kids
have you know, healthy schools, whether or not people can
(46:04):
go to the doctor. It is all designed by policy,
and so we have to show up and exercise our
right so that we can have a healthier relationship to
life in this country. Yes, and that is the thing,
Like when people talk about feeling discouraged or things feel dangerous,
or like this election matters so much because it will
(46:26):
decide the future of the Supreme Court, and we already
saw how that went in the last one that didn't
go so well. Like, people are being harmed by the
outcomes of these events, and if we want to undo
that harm, we have to show up and vote like
we love each other and this country.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
That to me is the part I think.
Speaker 3 (46:45):
You know I've had personally, you know, I've had some
slightly uncomfortable conversations with members of my family.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
Yeah, and it's it's it's tough.
Speaker 3 (46:55):
When you do come to someone who doesn't necessarily believe
that they're vot vote actually speaks for their families as well,
or members of their families.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
Like, your vote isn't always necessarily just for you, it's
for your neighbor, you know, it's for someone you love.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
Like you know, I am a queer woman of color
and my family members are white.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
But every time they cast a vote, and like, just remember,
vote for me, I'm going to vote for you.
Speaker 3 (47:23):
I'm going to vote so that your your your identity,
your wants and needs are encompassed in mind, you know,
are encompassed in my vote, But am I encompassed in yours? Like?
And that's hard because there's there's the rights of the individual,
and then we also have to look at the rights
of the whole.
Speaker 2 (47:40):
And again, I've heard you talk about this a.
Speaker 3 (47:43):
Lot, Like it's not a pie guys, more rights for
me doesn't mean there's less rights for you.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
It just means the rights get bigger, bigger.
Speaker 3 (47:54):
Yeah, creating more equity meets creating more pie.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
Ye, Like Merrol and I love pie. You want everybody
to have it.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
So for our friends who also love pie, should we
should we tell them where they can begin, because to
your point, it can be hard to start the journey.
So would you recommend, like, yeah, you know, the ACLU
on Instagram is ACLU Nationwide. Everybody maybe should go there first.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
Yes, I do think that the ACLU if you, like,
if you aren't sure where you stand, right, if you're
just interested in learning, the ACLU provides a breadth of
information on breadth of topics, right. Yeah, and again it
is non partisan. So this is literally about human rights.
It's about your rights for all or all. And that's
(48:43):
why I think there's such a great place to start.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
If you really are not here for.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
Like, I'm blue, I'm red, why don't you just be
try being first? The AL Nationwide is a great place
to start. Their Instagram account is honestly one of my
favorite things to and yes, because obviously we're dealing with
facts and things that are happening in real time all
across our country. Sometimes it can't be depressing, but it's
(49:10):
informative and it's always hopeful. There's always hope because knowledge
is power.
Speaker 1 (49:14):
Yes, and I love that.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
That makes sense.
Speaker 3 (49:17):
And also vote dot org like if as far as
like just process, if you need to check to see
if you're registered, little the basic one, twos and threes,
everything you need to know to vote vote.
Speaker 1 (49:30):
I love that or I am a voter, yes, and
I will say to our friends at home, you can look.
I don't like a lot of text messages. I don't
like a lot of emails. Like too much. Communication is
the bane of my existence. So I helped UH organize
that I am a voter chatbot because I was like,
if it texts me all the time, I'll be furious.
And it's partially my organization. You can text the word
(49:53):
voter from anywhere in the country to two six seven
nine seven voter vot er and it will give you
your updated info on registering. You can make sure you're registered,
and it will send you a text reminder before the election,
remind you of where you're going, where your polling place
is in case it's changing. It is like the best
(50:14):
amount of information with the least amount of being bothered possible,
So go online and then also send a text and
we will make sure you are covered, because we want
everybody to have more pie. Now, my dear, you are
obviously spending this year being a voting rights ambassador for
the ACLU. You are working to defend American democracy. You
(50:37):
are out here advocating for people and reminding people of
the ways we can be better, deeper, more aware of
each other. And I know people are like and where
else can I see her? Like, I got a lot
of questions about you, like what's next in your career?
Where are you going? People are like they're just desperate
(50:57):
for more of you and your voice and all that are.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
Oh that's really sweet. You know. Well, I'm currently in Winnipeg, Canada.
Make it a movie.
Speaker 1 (51:08):
Yeah, you are in a cold place.
Speaker 2 (51:11):
I am.
Speaker 3 (51:12):
I am, but hey, I'm still paying attention to what's
going on in the country.
Speaker 2 (51:17):
Yes, so that's that's the other thing. It's like, I
take it off.
Speaker 3 (51:22):
I take it very seriously, like it's a responsibility to
like like a pay attention read anyways.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
But yes, I'm I'm I'm working after.
Speaker 3 (51:31):
You know, the entertainment industry was on strike for like
what felt like an eternity for absolutely every person involved,
and so I really wanted to work this year, and
I'm very grateful to have opportunity.
Speaker 2 (51:44):
So I'm doing just that at the moment. But I've
got some things up my sleeve. Okay, she might be.
Speaker 3 (51:54):
Doing your girl might be doing some things, might be
taking some big swings, trying some new things.
Speaker 1 (51:59):
Okay, I'm very excited to hear what they are when
it's time.
Speaker 2 (52:02):
When it's time, I mean, that's the name of my game.
Speaker 3 (52:04):
Though, like I when it becomes formulated to me, that's
when I don't want to do it because I don't
like doing the same thing twice. Every show I did
on Broadway for ten years was different. None of them
were the same. And I'm really grateful that I seem
to have a path in this new facet of the
(52:27):
industry that is allowing me to do that. I'll be honest,
it's not always easy. Sometimes you really got to go
in there and like advocate for yourself in a way
that's like, yes, see me for this part. I know
it doesn't make sense, it doesn't have to, but let
me try.
Speaker 1 (52:44):
Just look, I have a hunch.
Speaker 3 (52:46):
Just look, I just have a hunch, Like my gut
is telling me. You'll be pleasantly surprised. So it's really
a lot of that. And I'm this is my year
of I said to myself at the beginning of the year.
If the energy is not electric, I do not want it.
So that's my sort of like guiding light, and I'm
(53:08):
following that and so everything I do right now feels
very creatively stimulated. And while that did not answer the
question of what am I doing next and where is
it coming beyond making where's it going beyond making movies?
I can tell you I'm very excited about the things
I have in front of me and sensibly terrified because
(53:29):
when you take on bigger things and it is scary.
But I do scary things every day, and I think
that's what makes life magical.
Speaker 9 (53:39):
You know.
Speaker 1 (53:40):
So my favorite question to ask everyone is the following,
And I wonder if if maybe that's part of the answer,
is that it works around like courage and fear. When
when you look out at the year ahead of you,
what feels like you're work in progress.
Speaker 3 (54:00):
I mean, the wholeness, my whole being is a work
in progress. That's the work in progress. And here's why
I say that is, you know, I think it's fairly
well documented that my life changed very quickly.
Speaker 2 (54:17):
The West Side Story absolutely changed my life.
Speaker 3 (54:19):
And then even though I had worked for ten years
on Broadway, that was the thing that suddenly people knew
about me, right, And I think the work in progress
for me is having the courage to own this new identity,
part of my identity, and to really dig in and.
Speaker 2 (54:39):
See how far I can go with it.
Speaker 3 (54:42):
You know, it's like there's a part of me that
feels like I've only scratched the surface of this area
of my life, this part of my creativity, and every
day it is a work in progress to not let
the fear of platform, criticism of failure get in the
(55:05):
way of that. You know, So it does take courage
to like it takes. It takes courage to pursue magic.
Speaker 1 (55:11):
Oh really good God, Yes, that Like if I were
Oprah in the audience at Harpo, I'd be like, tweet it.
That's a tweeted moment for sure, but that.
Speaker 2 (55:22):
It's so good.
Speaker 1 (55:23):
It takes its strige to pursue magically.
Speaker 2 (55:28):
It does, and it looks different for everybody.
Speaker 12 (55:30):
But that's also why I think, you know, part of
this work and this year and my ambassadorship with the
a c l U, it takes courage to pursue the
magic of making space for everyone.
Speaker 2 (55:44):
And for allowing everyone to be heard. It is courageous
because it's.
Speaker 3 (55:48):
Hard to please, right, It's so hard to please everyone,
and that is that is a reality.
Speaker 2 (55:58):
But I think the endeavor to allow everyone the opportunity
to live a beautiful life and to be heard that
is a life well lived.
Speaker 1 (56:09):
Yeah, and she drops the mic at the end and
the lights come on. My god, thank you that was beautiful.
Speaker 2 (56:21):
Thank you beautiful.
Speaker 3 (56:22):
Thank you for having me, thank you for letting me
share and for talking with me. I just think you're
so You're so smart, and you're so inspiring.
Speaker 2 (56:30):
I love look. Oh my god, I just your everything.
Speaker 1 (56:36):
You're everything. I can't wait for us to go to
a play together. Added to the list.
Speaker 2 (56:40):
Added to the list, Annie, Yes.
Speaker 1 (56:43):
What a dream do you?
Speaker 2 (56:44):
Thank you for doing this?
Speaker 1 (56:46):
No, by the way, tell me, I'm ready, let's go.
I I so appreciate you taking the time today, especially
because I know you're on location and it is a
lot to show up and offer like you know, your
heart and your thoughts and your journey to feel in
such an authentic way. So thank you for doing that
in the midst of like a job that you know
(57:06):
has you in the tundra. It's it's no small effort,
and I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (57:11):
Oh, it's my honestly, my pleasure. I was honored to
be asked.
Speaker 3 (57:14):
I'm always happy to speak with you.
Speaker 2 (57:17):
You're likewise.
Speaker 1 (57:18):
I can't wait come home. Let's go see some shows.
Speaker 2 (57:21):
Let's go see shows. Oh my gosh, yes, there's so
many to see.
Speaker 5 (57:24):
Okay, I've just turned into like twelve years old.
Speaker 2 (57:28):
You're like, it's time, it's time. You can't take the
Broadway out of the girl. You really can't.
Speaker 1 (57:35):
Oh all right, my dear, you have an amazing rest
of your day. Thank you, Thanks Darling, You appreciate you.
Hi everyone, It's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome
back to Work in Progress friends. This week we have
a guest who I've been a fan of for what
(00:21):
feels like forever. Ariana Debos is an award winning actress.
She is known for varying roles on stage, in film
and television. I was lucky enough to see her in
the original cast of Hamilton in New York on Broadway.
I was so blown away by her, and she has
just continued this breathtaking trajectory, winning an Academy Award in
(00:44):
addition to a BAFTA for her performance in Steven Spielberg's
reimagining A Westside Story. She played Anita so beautifully, and
she also in the midst of you know, doing such
an iconic role in such an iconic film and winning
an Oscar for it happened to make history because she
became the first openly queer Afro Latina to win an
(01:06):
Academy Award. She's an absolute legend, and not only is
she following up that project with incredible films other plays,
hosting the Tony Awards not once but twice in two years,
being nominated for Emmy's I Mean The list literally goes
on and on and on, but she is doing something
that is so close to her heart and mind. Arianna
(01:29):
has taken a role as the acl USE Artist Ambassador
to advocate for voting rights. She is doing incredible work
making sure we all have the right to vote and
also helping the ACLU to debunk myths and provide trusted
information in a year where it is more important than ever.
So today we're going to chat about Broadway art, identity, voting,
(01:53):
and probably plenty more things that make us feel excited, inspired,
and motivated for the year ahead. Let's get to it.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Hi, how are you?
Speaker 1 (02:14):
I'm good. I'm so happy that you're here, and like
just the overlap that we have with some of our
favorite friends. I'm just like I have not gotten to
spend time with her, but I love her the same.
I'm is there anything that you want to know? Is
there anything that you want to definitely talk about?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Not really, I feel like I mean, I don't I
don't claim to be an expert in anything.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
I'm just like a human, so same.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
I always like provided disclaimer on anything, Like, guys, I'm
just my perspective and experience, but I could be wrong
and that's okay.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Yeah, it's kind of amazing when you learn more and
then change your mind or just like expand your opinion.
I think that Isn't that an interesting thing about our
lives too, is like now, because everything is so online,
it's almost like, yeah, supposedly every time you have a thought,
you're declaring who you are. And it's like, right, we're not,
(03:15):
or we're just all on this journey together learning yep,
And yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
Well I said that, like the thing about America, you're
supposed to be able to like change your mind, have
an opinion all the things.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
It's one of the things I feel like I can
say to you because I know you are also such
an activist and an advocate. Like when you say, isn't
that the thing about this country? I think yes. I
think it's baked into even the ideals of who we
are because we had these incredible founding ideals that even
the Founding fathers, who were by no means perfect, to
(03:54):
have a whole lot of you know, skeletons in and
out of their closets. They were like, we're going to
do the most progressive thing that's been done in history.
And we know we're not even building it the right
way yet. So we're going to bake change into the foundation.
It's what James Baldwin said, Like, I love this country,
and therefore I criticize her. I want to bring her
(04:16):
her Yes, Like I need to hold her to the
standards that she says are hers, and I think the
job of our generations is to get ever closer to
the actual execution of those ideals.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Yeah, it's like, that's why they created living documents.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
It's okay, Like anybody who wants to be better than
they were the day before, they like I constantly like
check myself.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
I ask the questions, critique, you know.
Speaker 5 (04:42):
What I mean, like self interrogation, you self interrogation, take
the notes, you know, Like I feel like our you know,
we're as well.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
I'm sadly recording this because it's probably Yeah, I just
feel like.
Speaker 6 (05:00):
You know, that's part of what being a citizen of
the United States is, you know, like you are if
you are really being active and noticing it.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
It's like, no, we're not always going to get it right.
The whole point of voting is so that you can
participate in the critique and the making better of the
world that you live in and you know, for me,
being a sleep in that process is not really an option,
partially because my identity demands that I stay awake.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Yes, and yeah, okay, so this is this is cool
because we dove in we and I actually think that
this is a moment that connects us well to what's
normally my first question. But I was just like, you
also want to change the world. Tell me all about
it when you think about that perspective, Like, you stand
(05:53):
as this incredibly accomplished woman, and what you have achieved
is breathtaking, and the way you use your platform as breathtaking,
and you you are also very aware of how your
identity requires you to spend the privilege of a platform
like this when you I always like to know, you know,
(06:15):
when I sit across from somebody who like has an
Academy award on their shelf, I'm like, I'm like, do
you see Like do you see Ariana today? If you
were to like hang out with your eight year old self,
would you see the through lines of who you are?
Or were you into completely different things when you were little?
Like how is it now for you to look back
(06:37):
on yourself?
Speaker 3 (06:40):
You know, it's funny I look at if looking at
my eight year old self, I could see how she
got here. It's I mean, I say that like really assuredly,
but I really can. Like I was a very creative child,
you know. And I was the type of kid like
when I would when I was born and my mom
and I live with my grandmother, and I'm an only child.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
There's racist an only child, and yeah, what do you do?
Only children? We have to find ways to entertain ourselves.
We sure do, we sure do. So I would like
go outside.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
We lived in like an apartment complex, and I'd go
outside and there were these staircases, and I made the
staircase like my stage, and I would just give shows
for myself and like make it up songs or singing
songs like her. And I'd like be like, oh, what
if I did this dance step going downstairs? And like
(07:38):
the neighbors would sort of look through the window and
I would wave at them, and they were great about it.
But look, I mean I think about it now, I'm like, Wow,
they must have thought, Wow, she's really going.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
For it, that little girl just belting it out.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Just belting it out, like but it I don't know
that that sort of endless like childlife like curiosity and
the need to express because that's really what it was.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
I wanted to find a place to put my emotions
or you know.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
I remember when Titanic came out that you know, Celine
Dion's my heart will go on, like eight year old
Lorianta or however old I was, like she was belting
it out on the staircase, like really believing that she
was on.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
The Titanic in.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
The front ofership with the sunset and the wind and
the singing and the chest pounds, Like there's a lot
of that young person that is still inside of me.
But also, you know, my mom is a public school teacher.
Speaker 7 (08:44):
She's an educator, and again she raised me as a
single parent, and there were I was surrounded by educators
and predominantly female educators for that matter, and so it
took it really took a village to raise me.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
But as you can see, I'm the brown, the brown,
but I'm a black woman.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
In the United States of America, some people would look
at me and be like, oh, she's brown, and I'm like, yeah,
but I'm black.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
I am an Afro Latina and my mom is white.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
So and I was raised by her side of the
family really and our extended like chosen family. So my
father that that brings the Latini dad to my existence
was not present. So Spanish was not spoken in my home.
I was not raised eating the food at all times
that are cultural to my identity, and so I I
(09:42):
didn't come to that portion of my identity of really
having the opportunity to dig into that as much until
my adulthood. So there was sort of a disconnect in
my childhood. I didn't and I hate the way this,
but it is my reality.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
I did not see color for.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
The longest time, and I didn't really have a concept
of race. I could hear tone, like if I'm in
the grocery stores with my mom as a kid, and
you know, someone says something that doesn't sound very nice
or throws us a look that is not very inviting
or is judgmental. I could discern those types of things,
(10:27):
but it wasn't really until you know, I was, you know,
very much in school that I really started to process
all of that. And as we know, they don't put
a lot of the realities of certain things in textbooks.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
So but thank.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
God I had an educator for a parent who helped
supplement all of that, you know, And she did go
the extra mile understanding that she has a child of color,
and she needed to explain certain things to me, you know,
and really give me an understanding of racism, even though
(11:06):
in my mind.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
I wasn't processing, if that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
I knew what racism was, but I felt like the
civil rights movement was so far away because it was
in a book, you know. And so then as I'm
as I was developing as an adult or becoming an
adult and moving to New York City and seeing the
realities of the world, and like, no, the civil rights
(11:31):
movement ain't that movement is not that far away.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
In fact, she's fresh, Yes, she's still fresh.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Well, And when you consider the fact speaking of your
mom as an educator, like Ruby Bridgers is still alive,
that little girl who had to be escorted by state
troopers into her school at the age of five, in
her little Mary Jane's and little bows in her hair,
like she's younger than my mom. And so I think
(11:58):
it's so interesting to hear hear you the way you
talk about this, because I know that for me, what
feels like the experience of our generation is the waking
up to what we were taught as children lived in
books is actually our present day experience that remains reverberating.
(12:21):
And I don't know if I put myself in your
mom's shoes, like to think back to when you were
a little kid, and we weren't having, you know, common
conversations about intersectionality. We weren't, we were we were in
that process. Like what an incredible thing that, as you said,
your mom was an educator who had the wherewithal to say,
(12:43):
I'm a white woman raising a daughter of color whose
identity is also intersectional. And like, of course you've had
a journey and thank god she was your mom, Like whoa,
what a? What an experience? Was was moving to New
York because of how diverse it is and because of
(13:05):
how diverse artists communities are. Like did that feel like
a homecoming or a wake up call? Or both both?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
To be honest, I felt like both.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
I feel like, you know, my journey with the Broadway
community has been.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Wonderful and also fascinating.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
I think, you know, I was I came under what
felt like to me living in the experience of it.
I felt like I came under a lot of criticism
that I was like the white black girl.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
I didn't sound black enough.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
I didn't sing black enough, I didn't really dance black enough.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Like I just really wasn't black enough.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
In fact, there were several nights I'd be out and
about with artists and there would be people who would
try to tell me about myself and my own blackness,
and I was never afforded the in those spaces, I
was not afforded the opportunity to defend myself. It was
never welcomed for me to explain anything. It was just
(14:11):
assumed that I was elitist or thought I was better
than everyone else, when in actuality, what was really happening
was I was trying to find community.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
You know, I would ask, for example, like I would
ask a question.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
You know, every culture has its own language, its own
like euphemisms or whatnot, and like.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Sometimes I'll be perfectly frank.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Sometimes there were moments, especially when I was eighteen and
fresh in New York and even into my second Broadway show,
like where I didn't understand something and so I'd asked
the question and they'd be like, what the hell, Oh
so not really black, And I'm like, what does what
does that mean, like when I walk down the street,
(14:55):
I'm very I mean, the cops don't see a difference
between me and you, so I don't.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
I don't get it. So things like that, and so
that was very jarring for me, And.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
To be honest, sometimes I still like have to chet
that one out in therapy, like I don't because I don't.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
I went the first person to say.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
You know, being a member of both the black community
and the Hispanic community, it's like, yeah, there's there's colorism.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Is a thing.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
There's interdimensional prejudice that is going on for very different reasons,
and sometimes you really have to sit down and unpack
what that is, and it's it can be really hard
because it's pitting the community against each other.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
And then and also those two communities.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
In particular, it's like they get pit against each other
all the time when in reality it's like we should
be working together. I'm really unclear, and yet we're still
arguing about minutia and not that the minutia is not important,
but given the world that we live in, can we
not find our common ground and elevate that first?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
You know, like, is are there? I don't.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
I would I wish that we as communities could have
those conversations and like see our differences or the beauty
of the minutia as like these make us individual, but
these things bring us together. And sometimes that's not the
standpoint that's taken. I will be the first to admit that.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
And now a word from our wonderful sponsors, And what
a hard thing it must be to be growing up,
growing into yourself, wanting to amass more understanding of your
(16:53):
multi identities, and in a way to be told that
your multiness is the problem. You're like that this is me,
Like I live here, I'm literally this.
Speaker 8 (17:03):
Person every day and it's the you know what I
look back on and like my first experiences in New
York and because I was so hungry for community and like.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
And to be honest, like coming to New.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
York and and finding as an artist and finding the
Broadway community also was one of the best things that
could happen to me.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
But I think when you are like developing and trying.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
To embrace who you are, what is interesting is that
for me, it put me in a place where I
allowed people to tell me who I was, and I
am innately and aquarius, and I don't do well authority figures.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
But I look back on it now and I'm like, oh,
but I let people try to tell me which box
I could be in, which also created issues because I
butt heads against that.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
So I was sort of cultivating this like cycle of
of unhappy.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Which is not unlike voting rights.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Because it's so weird that they all sort of tied
together really anything.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
But I feel like it's I look at it.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Now and I think I I started finding a flow
in my life when I embraced all of the things
that make me me and instead of trying to like
put a lid on some things by owning them, it
allowed me to actually live my most authentic life and
(18:31):
I've found happiness in my life. That doesn't mean that
everything's cupcakes and sprinkles. It's not.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
But there became a flow, and so I could find
the spaces that were meant for me. You know.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
It's almost like I had to be ready to accept
all of that, that there was going to be good
with the bad, and you were never going to be
able to cookie cut yourself down enough to be acceptable.
It's like, I don't I don't fox with palatability anymore.
I think that's death to creativity, palatability, bye, goodbye.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
But that's such an experience of stepping into power. And
it's like, you know, we clearly don't have the same
experience as young women finding our artistry and our specificity.
But like I'm hearing you talk about this, and I'm like, girl,
yes to so much of it. I you know, at
twenty one, moved for my first big job and moved
(19:30):
to a very small town and felt very isolated and
really wanted to be an adult and really wanted to
prove that I was good enough, really wanted to do
all the things right. And you know, I carried all
my familial and childhood trauma with me and I wanted
to like build a life and do a thing. And
I didn't have anybody saying if what is offered around
(19:53):
you doesn't feel like enough, go out and seek it.
I was sort of like, Okay, well, if these are
the five forks I get to choose from all time,
do this and if this, and I would I built
a life to be like kind and a good team
player and palatable and things, and wasn't good for me.
It's a it's a journey, I think, to discover how
(20:16):
to seek more, how to be grateful for what it is,
but like not give up on yourself a little bit,
not shrink yourself a little bit. And people especially don't
like when women don't shrink themselves, And they especially don't
like when we don't shrink ourselves and we're political. Like
for them, it's, oh yeah, they just they melt down.
But like, even when I think about your art, like
(20:39):
your identity is inherently political, your art has been political,
Like hello, you were part of the original cast of Hamilton,
Like you made politics pop culture in this like beautiful way,
in a way that claimed diversity, chose diversity, Like what
what was that like? Because by the way, I remember
(21:00):
like early days and I'm like, this is the most
inspiring thing I've ever seen. All I care about is
like the actual potential of the realization of the American Documents?
Does everybody know? Like do people know? And then I remember,
like within four weeks I wanted to bring a bunch
of friends back and like couldn't get tickets for four months,
And I was like, Okay, everybody knows, Like, and what
(21:20):
was it like to be in it? Because I know,
as an audience member and a fan, I was just
like melting down. And I was like you as a
kid on the staircase, like wapping around in my car
with the windows down, singing along to you guys, Like
what what did it feel like to be in it?
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Oh? I mean.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
I could say it was wild?
Speaker 9 (21:40):
You know.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Yeah, I think.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
I don't know if you, if you speak to any
members of the original cast, I don't know that we
have good words for it because it felt so singular,
to be honest, but you're but what what you what
you said is exactly what we did, Like.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
We made are political.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
It's like how it's so rare that you get like
every you know, you get presidents to Broadway, like what
the Secretary of State is coming to Broadway, like you know,
like senators.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Actively want to see this.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
It like it made you know, art, It gave art
a different platform, and it certainly gave Broadway a different
a different audience, you know, And I think that was
really cool and there there, It wasn't a you could
be in your seventies or eighties and still love Hamilton.
You could be a child and love Hamilton for different reasons.
(22:31):
But the messaging behind it, the diversity, spoke to the
you know, facing some truths about women.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Women in the sake wall work, you.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Know, like there was there was a lot in there
that I think, you know, created a different synergy and
showed a lot of people as possible.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
I think.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Fighting personally fighting the Revolutionary War eight times a week
was really hard. Girl.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
I thought about you guys again, because it's just like
one of the shows I've seen the most times. And
I did a play like a straight play on the
West End in twenty ty three, and I would get
to the end of a five show weekend and literally collapse,
and I was like, wait, I have friends who do
this and they sing and dance like wow, you like
(23:26):
I look at you now like a person with superpowers.
It's incredible.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
It's the wildest thing. I will always say that like
Broadway in like theater theater in general. If you're if
you're doing theater at a high.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Level, which the West End is, is so like more
power to you.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
It was so cool.
Speaker 10 (23:45):
It was also doing straight plays on the West End
I find just inherently intimidating because like the Brits, they
they know thet all, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Oh great?
Speaker 1 (23:56):
It was the one American in the play, and I
was like, cool, no pressure, I'm going to be Oh
my god, I heard you great though.
Speaker 11 (24:04):
Actually I'm sad I missed it, but I heard you
were absolutely wonderful, So go you.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
I loved every minute of it. I was crushed when
I got like, you know, as so many people did,
like hit so hard, pandemic, yeah, sickness that I was like, oh,
I'm actually like too sick to keep working. I've never
had this happen before. I've left the hospital and gone
back to set. What do you mean I have to go?
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Do you mean? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (24:28):
But the months that I got to be there and
do it, it gave me the bug in such an
intense way. And now I'm like, what's my next.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
Playing to be?
Speaker 1 (24:35):
I need it.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
I'm really need it. Okay, now, okay, gool gool cool.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
So if you want to do a straight play straight already.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
You're great. All right, I'm going to keep the lookout. Okay,
you heard it here first, everyone.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Let's go to Broadway.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Broadway. No, but I do think what was I saying? Oh?
Speaker 3 (24:56):
I do think there's no training like.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Like doing theater. It's a different kind of stamina, it's
a different kind of work.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
Ethic, you know, and I had the privilege of doing
like six Broadway shows almost back to back.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Wow, yeah, you never stopped.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
I didn't, and I'm very grateful.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
You know. I got some great advice when I was
doing my first Broadway show. I ran into Judith Light
who is my favorite humans on the world in the
Planet Icon, and she was like, just say yes, just
keep saying yes.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
You will.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
You will learn something from every show that you do.
And the lesson may be easy, the lesson may be hard,
but you will learn. And you will always have an
income because you know, I didn't go to university for
what I do.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
I think people like assume.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
That maybe I went to Juilliard or maybe I went
to you know, a really great.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Like a conservatory, a conservatory, thank you.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Nope, did not, did not. I I graduated in two
thousand and nine. So there just wasn't any money any
the recession.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
No, like they always say, like the bubble burst in
two thousand and eight.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Yes it did, it did, and it there was no
money for scholarships. And again I single parent home with
a public school teacher salary. It's like there, we barely
had money for you go to a state school, you
know what I mean. I was reliant on scholarships even
in my when I was training, Like I went to
(26:25):
a competitive dance studio and received incredible training, but I
worked as a teacher's assistant to pay off some of
my basic tuition.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
And then every time we went.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
To like a convention, competition or something, I took them
very seriously because in the class portion of the convention
I wanted to do well. It was very focused, not
to my detriment, but I knew that if I didn't
get a scholarship, nine times out of ten, I would
not be coming back the next year because we could
not afford it. So like, dance was such a savior
(26:57):
to me because it gave me a structure for my life.
I found something I loved and I was willing to
do the work to so that my opportunities would continue
to advance. Like yeah, I could keep the doors open.
And you know, there at one point in my life
there was a very privileged white woman said to me, like,
(27:18):
you're so privileged because you had a white mom. And
I was like, in what way do you think that
I was privileged? I lived in a small town. We
for a time, we lived in subsidized housing, and people
really look down on my mom because she had a
brown child or a black child, And.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
So I'm I don't get it.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
Like if the cops stopped us and saw me, there's
like a myriad of questions. Even sometimes you know, white
women in the in the grocery store, like would say
some things like is that your child? Like her students
at times were like are you adopted? Like there was
always this question around what I came to believe my validity.
And now that does not mean that we had it
(27:59):
harder than absolutely everybody. That is not what I'm saying.
I am saying that as a child, I understood that
there were differences, and no, my mom did not have
an easy time of it, and perhaps at times my
identity might have made it harder, you know, but like
she's my mother, and she loved me, and she busted
(28:21):
her butt to give me a good life. But whiteness
at times does not always translate to privilege. And I
think there are will always be an inherent privilege to whiteness.
But given my identity and the life that I lived
growing up, I saw some real times where it was
not helpful. The whiteness did not play come into play
(28:43):
as a helpful factor, if that makes.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Sense, and there are there are people who have trouble here.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
It's so odd to me. I don't understand why people
want to always couch what others have gone through. It's like,
why why would someone even feel the need to say
that to you, because then, by the way, you're required
to do the emotional labor of educating someone to be like,
(29:11):
you know what, I, because I lived with my mother,
might have had proximity to a version of her privilege,
but I also was very aware of how that privilege
didn't extend to me because I don't look like my mother. Like,
just the fact that you have to sit and say
that to somebody is like, God, it's exhausting say that.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Oh it was exhausting, and to this day at times
it is exhausting.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
But it's like, I share that with you in this
moment because I also am like, but yes, podcast, people
love this podcast and maybe they never thought about that,
And I'm like, I don't have a problem sharing, but
in the moments where it's like, oh God, controversial again,
I don't care about being palata well anymore.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
I'll just say it. If that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Yeah, and now a word from our sponsors that I
really enjoy and I think will too. Well, that's the thing, Like,
I think we have to be as frank as possible
about reality if we ever hope to create better ones,
(30:16):
and to your point, like, okay, if we want to
rally the troops for a better America, we want to
make this country live up to its ideals. Actually, us
women should be mobilizing fifty one percent of the population, like,
let's go. But we have to be willing to hear
the different experiences of the women. Like if we're all
(30:41):
in a pool, then we're a bunch of buckets in
a pool. And if I don't know anything about what
you go through, or I'm not willing to hear what
you go through, or I'm not curious about what you
go through, not only am I doing a disservice to
you in our relationship, I'm also making myself more ignorant.
So I'm going to advocate us well for you and
(31:01):
for me, Like come on, we should just we should
just be willing. Yeah, not dissimilarly to a good script, right,
like to our friends at home. You hear me talk
about this a lot with other actors. Like how a
really good movie or TV show will make they will
tell someone's specific story. And when you do specificity really well,
(31:24):
everyone identifies with it because it's also universal. And like,
we only create a good universal outcome if we are
willing to pay attention to everybody's specificity and then design
an outcome that supports us all.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
And honestly, you say it so plainly, I'm like this, yeah, God,
just that it's pretty.
Speaker 11 (31:44):
It seems so simple to me, which is also why
I was just like, you know, I'm I I knowing
my I mean, why my life, So I know my journey,
but like knowing all these different like mile markers in
my life, it's like, Okay, I want to I want
to try.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
And cultivate community in the ways that I might not
have had growing up, you know what I mean. And
and so I try to choose my art from that standpoint,
like who can this speak to?
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Or how how can my presence be a value?
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Add Like, I'm not someone who just like inserts myself.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Just because like I'm very intentional.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
About things when I like, I think that's very important.
But that's also why I think about like just to
sort of whack because like I know, I.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Tell you realness, I.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
Especially on a day like today, But I think when
I think about my idea, my my identity, my my journey,
I'm an artist, and they all work together and like
sometimes separating because I think clarity about like what is
going on with your identity and your work because people
like to confuse the two is very important. But that's
(33:04):
how I come back to like who am I as
a human and what am I trying to do with
this platform that I've been given?
Speaker 2 (33:11):
So for me when I was like, oh, I love
the ACLU, why because they are.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Not They're advocating for all of us.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
I think that's really important.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
They're advocating for everyone, even the people, and that's the
beauty of being an American, Like I don't always have
to agree with my fellow American, but I do believe
that we all have a place here in this country
and we all have the right to be heard.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
And so I was like, I can get down. I
love that, let's go.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
That also takes a certain willingness to self interrogate and
to hold yourself to the standards you say you believe
it to say, like I really do not agree yes,
with this person's bigoted opinion. But guess what, I'm the
first amendment they're allowed to say it. So what am
I going to do to support the people they might
be verbally attacked? How am I going to build a
(34:01):
better system? How am I gonna allow them to be
who they are whether I agree or not? And then
make sure I'm defending the people who their rights might harm?
Like that takes a bigness. And you know, again, when
you talk about your identity, your journey, your work, like
I think about you being in the original cast of Hamilton,
(34:23):
I think about you as this woman who lives at
the intersections you live at. In twenty twenty two, by
the way, like talk about how history is now you
became the very first queer woman of color to win
an Academy Award for West Side Story. And you know
you're talking about how as a kid you didn't grow
up speaking Spanish, Like what has it been like to
(34:44):
lean back into your culture? Have you learned your language?
How have you built that community? Would it feel like
to stand up and do that job and then get
like the best award?
Speaker 2 (34:57):
It to what I see, the.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Exact thing you were just talking about about how all
these pieces of you come back to connect. Does it
Does it feel like that from the inside? Does it
feel like a homecoming?
Speaker 2 (35:11):
You know? I mean, here's the thing about homecomings.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
Sometimes they're uncomfortable and that's okay, that's that's that's life.
So the journey with West Side Story was both highly
uncomfortable and cathartic and wonderful and shiny. It was all
of it. But I think the only way that I
was I did what I always do. Yeah, I came
(35:38):
to it authentically. It's like the very first day I
met Steven Spielberg, he was like, so, what do you
want me to know? And I was like, well, I
want you to know that I'm Afro Latina. I am
a black woman who is Hispanic. And he was like
and I was like, yeah, I know, I know, but
like it's real and and that if you were not
willing to, you know, explore that and the content because
(36:00):
of the making of your movie, then don't hire me.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
That's what I said to him. And he just sort
of was like, thank you for your honesty.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
And I was like, and I'm also going to tell
you that I did not grow up with Spanish spoken
in my home so I took it in high school.
I was pretty good at it, but like, this is
going to be work for me, and also my dad.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Is not in my life. And he was like, ah,
thank you for.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Your honesty, and I appreciate, Like I was always honest
about who I.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Was, you know, and who I am, Like there's no
need to not be for me.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
But I went into it with like, this may not
be good enough for you, you know I was, And honestly
I was ready for you to be like it's not
like you're not you don't look like Rita Moreno, you
don't look like Cheter of Vera.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Your background is not good enough, you know.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
I was ready to have all of those normal things
that I've thrown it in my face every traditionally, and
he didn't do that. And so from there on it
made it like it it gave me permission to continue
to bring the fullness of my identity to that job.
And so then when being the first openly queer woman
of color to win an Academy award was incredibly special
(37:08):
because every part of the process was that, like, I
never had to be anything but who I am, you know,
and if I had a thought I could share it.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
You know, I'm opinionated. I share my opinion.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
I believe I share my opinions in a way that
does not smack someone else down. That is not the
point of me sharing an opinion, but I share it
from the space of let's open up the opportunities, the horizons,
like maybe there are several different paths we could go down,
and if we commit to one without first considering these
other things, like what are we even doing?
Speaker 9 (37:43):
Sometimes but it was wild and but the short answer
to your question was no, it didn't always feel good,
but it was.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
The whole process was totally mine and it complete.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
I got to completely embody and own it every step
of the way. So the uncomfortability I owned, the celebration
of it I owned. And you know, during that process,
I discovered I got to do some family digging and
my Hispanic roots come from sant Thorse, the little barrio's
outside of San Juan, though my father's family is from Santors.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Like I took the Spanish lessons I was and to.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
Be honest, I'll be candid and like I'm I have
a musical ear.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
My accent is good.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
But like language, when you don't learn it from a
young age. It's use it or lose it, and it's hard.
And so I still get anxiety in Spanish speaking spaces
when I know what's being said and I can't think
quick enough to respond in Spanish, like it kills me
and I want to cry, and I turned into five
year old arid like isn't good enough. It's very hard
(38:54):
for me, But I still try well, and I think
that's important. Part is like you have to make the
effort well.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
And what I hear you saying really is like you're
advocating for the fullness of yourself in yourself, and I
don't think it's accidental that you are such an advocate
for other people too. Like that passion to lean in,
you know, tracks for what we were just speaking about
(39:23):
with the ACLU, and like for you to be on
your journey and simultaneously want to go on a journey
for everyone, for us, for people's rights, like you sit.
You know today you're the newest voting rights ambassador for
the ACLU, and you mentioned they defend everybody. They do
all the good work, they make sure everybody has access
(39:45):
to the same rights. But we know that voting rights
in particular have been so under attack and what made
you want to jump into this? And is there like,
you know, being being the resident expert on this call, like,
is there a little overview you can give to our
friends who are listening at home, because I know that
(40:05):
so many people in my audience are like it feels
like everything keeps getting worse.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
What do we do?
Speaker 1 (40:10):
And you actually have some steps of things we can
really do to you know, be here for each other.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
Yeah, well, I mean I wanted to jump in because
I just felt like so my identity again sort of
like demanded it in a way.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
And I care about people. I really do. Even once
I disagree with I still care about you. I want
you to have a good life, even if you don't
want that for me.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
But it's like, I'm also passionate about young people, and
I feel like when I watch our you know, our
rights in.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
General get like dwindled down, and it's it for me.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
I look at it, and I'm like, you just trying
to put people in boxes and I'm so not here
for it. You want You're like, we've we've changed the
narratives so much to try and kind of keep people
small and keep them from asking questions and so for me,
the basis of my ambassadorship really starts there. It's like,
I don't think there's a single dumb question when it
(41:06):
comes to voting rights.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
I think you should ask them all, even the ones.
Speaker 3 (41:11):
That you're like, this may not have anything to do
with anything, but I'm gonna ask it, like I want
to sort of demystify that, you know, and just ask
the questions.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
People may have and the ones that I have, also
knowing that I may not have.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
The answer, but an organization like the ACLU probably does
and they can explain things like I.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Know, I was reading, you know, which is hard. Reading
the news is hard, or listening.
Speaker 3 (41:40):
To it can be like debilitating and depressing. But I
was reading a lot of these you know, decisions that
were coming down from the Supreme Court, and I was like,
oh gosh, this is like so much and this language
is so like heavy and honestly makes me feel really dumb,
and everything in me just wants to like not read.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
But I know I need to.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
And so that's when I would like call up my girl,
just go over at the assau like what does this mean?
And she was like, oh, let me prefer you to
so and so and they can tell you. And I
was like, that's what we should be doing. Like when
these decisions come down that it's hard to understand.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
I want to be like, hey, this thing happens, and
I'm pretty sure it.
Speaker 3 (42:20):
Affects so and so in Arkansas, or this came down
from the eighth circuit course, and who does this effect?
And I want to ask those questions and see how
we can open up the conversation or at least make
the facts easier to digest.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
And again, just remind folks there are no stupid questions.
Speaker 3 (42:39):
But the only dumb questions or stupid questions are the
ones you don't ask and you don't try to find
the answer to. And so I'm sort of putting myself
in that space, you know.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
And also I know you know all about that, because like, hell,
I have been an for a long long time.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
Thank you. I look, I think we're all in this together.
And yes, it is so important as as we were
talking about earlier, like when you when you managed to
have a platform because of what you do, like you
got to do good with it. So when you talk
about all of the things that you know you've been
learning and the questions you've been asking of the folks
at the ACLU. We are in an election year, are
(43:17):
there any myths that you want to set straight or
any any fun facts you want to give to people.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
Oh that's a really interesting question, you know what I think.
Speaker 3 (43:29):
I think there there's the and this is a large
like a larger conversation, but I think a lot of
people are like, oh, well, the presidential election is the
only one that matters.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Now.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
I know you've talked about this on your podcast and
like that's.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
Not the truth. Yeah, it is so not the truth.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
Like it doesn't matter it, it does not I'm not
here to tell you who to vote for it when
it comes to the presidential election, but I am here
to like remind you that, like anything that is like
important to your life whatever, you're showing up to the
pole four right, nine times out of ten, those local
elections are real important, my friends.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
And we don't think of that because what's in the
news so.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
Often is these bigger, these bigger elections.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
And so that's part of it.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
I mean that just reminding people that, like it takes
work to be a voter. Voting is not easy, and
the institutions that surround us don't make it easier for us.
It does take time, effort and planning. For the longest time,
even myself, I don't even know how to find the
(44:37):
correct websites for certain things like how do I find
people's platforms?
Speaker 2 (44:41):
Like what is even on my ballot? And then I
did find resources like I am a voter.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
But you have to do that work and you have
to want to to to have your voice heard. And
the reality is it does matter. It really does matter,
and it matters more in election years like this year.
Every year it matters.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
But when you have so.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
Many they ticket items on the ballot, if you don't
show up and.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
Vote, then for me, I'm just like that, then we're
not we're not seeing the fullness of our democracy.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
Yeah, take hold and again because I vote, it in
my mind is my own personal opinion. Now I can
reserve the right to really criticize my country, like I
will go ham at her Yes because I showed up
to vote.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
Yes, because I did my part.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
And now for our sponsors. The way I think about
it too, is like voting is a it's a relationship.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
You know, that's nice.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
Like democracy to me is a verb, like love is
a verb. It is an action an action. It is
so important to take that action because your entire life
is governed by policy. Your experience, the roads you drive on,
whether or not they have potholes, whether or not kids
have you know, healthy schools, whether or not people can
(46:04):
go to the doctor. It is all designed by policy,
and so we have to show up and exercise our
right so that we can have a healthier relationship to
life in this country. Yes, and that is the thing,
Like when people talk about feeling discouraged or things feel dangerous,
or like this election matters so much because it will
(46:26):
decide the future of the Supreme Court, and we already
saw how that went in the last one that didn't
go so well. Like, people are being harmed by the
outcomes of these events, and if we want to undo
that harm, we have to show up and vote like
we love each other and this country.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
That to me is the part I think.
Speaker 3 (46:45):
You know I've had personally, you know, I've had some
slightly uncomfortable conversations with members of my family.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
Yeah, and it's it's it's tough.
Speaker 3 (46:55):
When you do come to someone who doesn't necessarily believe
that they're vot vote actually speaks for their families as well,
or members of their families.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
Like, your vote isn't always necessarily just for you, it's
for your neighbor, you know, it's for someone you love.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
Like you know, I am a queer woman of color
and my family members are white.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
But every time they cast a vote, and like, just remember,
vote for me, I'm going to vote for you.
Speaker 3 (47:23):
I'm going to vote so that your your your identity,
your wants and needs are encompassed in mind, you know,
are encompassed in my vote, But am I encompassed in yours? Like?
And that's hard because there's there's the rights of the individual,
and then we also have to look at the rights
of the whole.
Speaker 2 (47:40):
And again, I've heard you talk about this a.
Speaker 3 (47:43):
Lot, Like it's not a pie guys, more rights for
me doesn't mean there's less rights for you.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
It just means the rights get bigger, bigger.
Speaker 3 (47:54):
Yeah, creating more equity meets creating more pie.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
Ye, Like Merrol and I love pie. You want everybody
to have it.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
So for our friends who also love pie, should we
should we tell them where they can begin, because to
your point, it can be hard to start the journey.
So would you recommend, like, yeah, you know, the ACLU
on Instagram is ACLU Nationwide. Everybody maybe should go there first.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
Yes, I do think that the ACLU if you, like,
if you aren't sure where you stand, right, if you're
just interested in learning, the ACLU provides a breadth of
information on breadth of topics, right. Yeah, and again it
is non partisan. So this is literally about human rights.
It's about your rights for all or all. And that's
(48:43):
why I think there's such a great place to start.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
If you really are not here for.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
Like, I'm blue, I'm red, why don't you just be
try being first? The AL Nationwide is a great place
to start. Their Instagram account is honestly one of my
favorite things to and yes, because obviously we're dealing with
facts and things that are happening in real time all
across our country. Sometimes it can't be depressing, but it's
(49:10):
informative and it's always hopeful. There's always hope because knowledge
is power.
Speaker 1 (49:14):
Yes, and I love that.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
That makes sense.
Speaker 3 (49:17):
And also vote dot org like if as far as
like just process, if you need to check to see
if you're registered, little the basic one, twos and threes,
everything you need to know to vote vote.
Speaker 1 (49:30):
I love that or I am a voter, yes, and
I will say to our friends at home, you can look.
I don't like a lot of text messages. I don't
like a lot of emails. Like too much. Communication is
the bane of my existence. So I helped UH organize
that I am a voter chatbot because I was like,
if it texts me all the time, I'll be furious.
And it's partially my organization. You can text the word
(49:53):
voter from anywhere in the country to two six seven
nine seven voter vot er and it will give you
your updated info on registering. You can make sure you're registered,
and it will send you a text reminder before the election,
remind you of where you're going, where your polling place
is in case it's changing. It is like the best
(50:14):
amount of information with the least amount of being bothered possible,
So go online and then also send a text and
we will make sure you are covered, because we want
everybody to have more pie. Now, my dear, you are
obviously spending this year being a voting rights ambassador for
the ACLU. You are working to defend American democracy. You
(50:37):
are out here advocating for people and reminding people of
the ways we can be better, deeper, more aware of
each other. And I know people are like and where
else can I see her? Like, I got a lot
of questions about you, like what's next in your career?
Where are you going? People are like they're just desperate
(50:57):
for more of you and your voice and all that are.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
Oh that's really sweet. You know. Well, I'm currently in Winnipeg, Canada.
Make it a movie.
Speaker 1 (51:08):
Yeah, you are in a cold place.
Speaker 2 (51:11):
I am.
Speaker 3 (51:12):
I am, but hey, I'm still paying attention to what's
going on in the country.
Speaker 2 (51:17):
Yes, so that's that's the other thing. It's like, I
take it off.
Speaker 3 (51:22):
I take it very seriously, like it's a responsibility to
like like a pay attention read anyways.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
But yes, I'm I'm I'm working after.
Speaker 3 (51:31):
You know, the entertainment industry was on strike for like
what felt like an eternity for absolutely every person involved,
and so I really wanted to work this year, and
I'm very grateful to have opportunity.
Speaker 2 (51:44):
So I'm doing just that at the moment. But I've
got some things up my sleeve. Okay, she might be.
Speaker 3 (51:54):
Doing your girl might be doing some things, might be
taking some big swings, trying some new things.
Speaker 1 (51:59):
Okay, I'm very excited to hear what they are when
it's time.
Speaker 2 (52:02):
When it's time, I mean, that's the name of my game.
Speaker 3 (52:04):
Though, like I when it becomes formulated to me, that's
when I don't want to do it because I don't
like doing the same thing twice. Every show I did
on Broadway for ten years was different. None of them
were the same. And I'm really grateful that I seem
to have a path in this new facet of the
(52:27):
industry that is allowing me to do that. I'll be honest,
it's not always easy. Sometimes you really got to go
in there and like advocate for yourself in a way
that's like, yes, see me for this part. I know
it doesn't make sense, it doesn't have to, but let
me try.
Speaker 1 (52:44):
Just look, I have a hunch.
Speaker 3 (52:46):
Just look, I just have a hunch, Like my gut
is telling me. You'll be pleasantly surprised. So it's really
a lot of that. And I'm this is my year
of I said to myself at the beginning of the year.
If the energy is not electric, I do not want it.
So that's my sort of like guiding light, and I'm
(53:08):
following that and so everything I do right now feels
very creatively stimulated. And while that did not answer the
question of what am I doing next and where is
it coming beyond making where's it going beyond making movies?
I can tell you I'm very excited about the things
I have in front of me and sensibly terrified because
(53:29):
when you take on bigger things and it is scary.
But I do scary things every day, and I think
that's what makes life magical.
Speaker 9 (53:39):
You know.
Speaker 1 (53:40):
So my favorite question to ask everyone is the following,
And I wonder if if maybe that's part of the answer,
is that it works around like courage and fear. When
when you look out at the year ahead of you,
what feels like you're work in progress.
Speaker 3 (54:00):
I mean, the wholeness, my whole being is a work
in progress. That's the work in progress. And here's why
I say that is, you know, I think it's fairly
well documented that my life changed very quickly.
Speaker 2 (54:17):
The West Side Story absolutely changed my life.
Speaker 3 (54:19):
And then even though I had worked for ten years
on Broadway, that was the thing that suddenly people knew
about me, right, And I think the work in progress
for me is having the courage to own this new identity,
part of my identity, and to really dig in and.
Speaker 2 (54:39):
See how far I can go with it.
Speaker 3 (54:42):
You know, it's like there's a part of me that
feels like I've only scratched the surface of this area
of my life, this part of my creativity, and every
day it is a work in progress to not let
the fear of platform, criticism of failure get in the
(55:05):
way of that. You know, So it does take courage
to like it takes. It takes courage to pursue magic.
Speaker 1 (55:11):
Oh really good God, Yes, that Like if I were
Oprah in the audience at Harpo, I'd be like, tweet it.
That's a tweeted moment for sure, but that.
Speaker 2 (55:22):
It's so good.
Speaker 1 (55:23):
It takes its strige to pursue magically.
Speaker 2 (55:28):
It does, and it looks different for everybody.
Speaker 12 (55:30):
But that's also why I think, you know, part of
this work and this year and my ambassadorship with the
a c l U, it takes courage to pursue the
magic of making space for everyone.
Speaker 2 (55:44):
And for allowing everyone to be heard. It is courageous
because it's.
Speaker 3 (55:48):
Hard to please, right, It's so hard to please everyone,
and that is that is a reality.
Speaker 2 (55:58):
But I think the endeavor to allow everyone the opportunity
to live a beautiful life and to be heard that
is a life well lived.
Speaker 1 (56:09):
Yeah, and she drops the mic at the end and
the lights come on. My god, thank you that was beautiful.
Speaker 2 (56:21):
Thank you beautiful.
Speaker 3 (56:22):
Thank you for having me, thank you for letting me
share and for talking with me. I just think you're
so You're so smart, and you're so inspiring.
Speaker 2 (56:30):
I love look. Oh my god, I just your everything.
Speaker 1 (56:36):
You're everything. I can't wait for us to go to
a play together. Added to the list.
Speaker 2 (56:40):
Added to the list, Annie, Yes.
Speaker 1 (56:43):
What a dream do you?
Speaker 2 (56:44):
Thank you for doing this?
Speaker 1 (56:46):
No, by the way, tell me, I'm ready, let's go.
I I so appreciate you taking the time today, especially
because I know you're on location and it is a
lot to show up and offer like you know, your
heart and your thoughts and your journey to feel in
such an authentic way. So thank you for doing that
in the midst of like a job that you know
(57:06):
has you in the tundra. It's it's no small effort,
and I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (57:11):
Oh, it's my honestly, my pleasure. I was honored to
be asked.
Speaker 3 (57:14):
I'm always happy to speak with you.
Speaker 2 (57:17):
You're likewise.
Speaker 1 (57:18):
I can't wait come home. Let's go see some shows.
Speaker 2 (57:21):
Let's go see shows. Oh my gosh, yes, there's so
many to see.
Speaker 5 (57:24):
Okay, I've just turned into like twelve years old.
Speaker 2 (57:28):
You're like, it's time, it's time. You can't take the
Broadway out of the girl. You really can't.
Speaker 1 (57:35):
Oh all right, my dear, you have an amazing rest
of your day. Thank you, Thanks Darling, You appreciate you.
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