April 25, 2024 • 53 mins
She lit up our screens in the iconic HBO series, The Sopranos and now she is inspiring people by opening up about her health journey.
Jamie-Lynn Sigler joins Sophia for an emotional chat about getting the role of a lifetime at 16 years of age, dealing with health problems at the height of her career, why she kept her diagnosis a secret, and the many women who helped her on her journey.
Plus, the actress tells all about her new podcast with Christina Applegate and the special bond they share.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello Whipsmarties.
Today we are joined by an old friend and a
big inspiration to me. Today's guest is Jamie Linn Sigler.
(00:24):
You know her most likely from her iconic role playing
meto soprano on the HBO series The Sopranos.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
She has done.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Incredible work in film, television, theater, I mean hello headlining
a tour at MSG. She is just an unbelievable performer
and also an incredible author. In two thousand and two,
she wrote an autobiography called Wise Girl, What I've Learned
about Life, Love and Loss That is so beautiful. And
(00:54):
this year she started a podcast with Christina Applegate, another
incredible acting ic, on who shares something really personal with
Jamie Lynn. Both of them were diagnosed with MS and
they've started a podcast called Messi based on their friendship
and the lessons they've learned throughout their diagnosis and their
(01:15):
journey with the condition. Jamie Lynn is so vulnerable and
inspiring to me and I know to so many of you.
And while she juggles all of these incredible projects, she
also happens to be a mother of two amazing young
sons with her husband Cutter. They are truly some of
(01:35):
my favorite people to hang out with, people that if
you ever are fortunate enough to be with at a wedding,
you definitely want to hit the dance floor with. And
not only is she so incredibly fun, but she is
so incredibly inspiring. I've probably said that too many times
in this intro, but it's true. I can't wait for
you all to hear this conversation. It really left me
(01:58):
feeling so and really reminded me about what's possible enjoy.
I'm so excited. I felt myself actually wanting to dive
(02:21):
into questions immediately because I was like, I'm just going
to start like blabbing at you and asking you everything anyway,
So I'm glad I pushed record.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Fast Grace, So God.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
I feel like we have so much to catch up on,
and there's also just so much that's exciting in your world.
I'm thrilled about the new project. I have a bajillion
things I want to ask you about. But before we
get into what's going on now, I actually really like
to rewind with people and go way back, because so
(02:56):
many people know you as an actor and an advocate
and all of these amazing.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Things that you are.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
You know, you let us in on your life and
your family and like all the exciting things you guys do.
But I always like to figure out who guests were
before we knew you, and we've known you for a
long time. So if you sit at this vantage point
today and you look back like you, you know you
TiVo rewind back to life when you were eight or nine. Yeah,
(03:28):
do you see yourself in Jamie as a little girl
or were you like a completely different kid?
Speaker 3 (03:36):
So crazy you're asking me this question right now because
I in because of where I'm at in my life
right now, and especially in this stage of my life
where I'm finally realizing that I don't need to hold
anything back and I don't need to hide. I wrote
this letter to my younger self recently, and it's kind
(03:59):
of like the beginnings maybe of a book. And I
am still so much that girl. She's still in me
that she is very insecure, she's very scared of the world.
She doesn't know who to trust. She wants to be
(04:20):
perfect because she feels she won't be loved yet, she
maybe wishes something was wrong, because if something's wrong, people
will love her. And I know that girl so well,
but I want to tell her that while life doesn't
go exactly how she planned or wanted, it's so much better.
(04:45):
It's so much harder, but because of that, it's so beautiful.
And you know, I recently had Edie Falco on our
podcast and she had said to me, you know, because
sometimes I'd said, like God, I wish I could just
go back to that little girl or that moment in
time and redo it and be who I am now.
(05:06):
And she said, but who's to say you would be
who you are now if you weren't that person then,
So little Jamie on the outside had it all, but
on the inside was just very afraid all the time. Yeah,
and not because of you know, my circumstances. You know,
(05:29):
I was raised by two wonderful people. My parents are
still alive and I'm still very close with them. But
you know, my mom grew up in Cuba and came
over as an immigrant in Project Peter Pan during the
revolution and had a very very traumatic childhood. And then
my grandmother came over a year later. And because of
that and their intimate relationship, what helped them survive was
(05:53):
it was them against the world and nobody else. We
couldn't trust anybody else, and so that was she I
thought she was protecting me. But that's kind of the
world that she thought I was going to be going
into as well. And so it took a lot of unlearning,
like a lifetime, you know, forty years of unlearning of that. Yeah,
(06:14):
But even though she had that, I was also bolstered
by this like beautiful community of community theater on Long Island,
which became my home away from home, and I loved
it so much, and it was it felt you know,
I think when you're a creative person and you get
an opportunity to like live in your creativity, especially at
(06:38):
a young age, it just feels so effortless and feels
like you're calling and feels like what you're meant to do,
and you really can't explain why. And I'm really lucky
that I was able to have that as a little girl,
because I don't know what would have happened if I didn't.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Yeah, yeah, God, it's a big deal to have, you know,
a place of space and outlet and especially it's so
wild that well, thank you first of all, before I
say the craziness of the parallel. Thank you for being
as honest and transparent as you just were.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Oh yeah, I almost don't know any other way now,
or I don't want to.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
I don't either, And it's funny.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
I just recently had a very in depth conversation with
a friend of mine who's a journalist, and she was like, God,
I just thank you for being willing to be so honest.
And I think what I've realized is like, if we're
not being honest and we're not being vulnerable with each other, like,
what are we doing talking? What are we doing taking
(07:43):
up space? Because to your point, life is hard, and
no matter what it looks like on the outside for anyone,
people are struggling. And like the way you're talking about
your experiences as a little girl, like my my inner
child is like you too. You know, I grew up
(08:04):
with you know, my mom came from a family with
a lot of trauma and their immigration stories. My dad,
you know, was an immigrant as well. And there's there
really is something I think to that and to that
identity and to the wanting to be the perfect picture
of the American dream. And I, from a very young age,
(08:29):
before I even started performing, learned that like I had
to be a perfect daughter and a perfect you know, neighbor,
and there was a lot of fear and it took
me a really long time to start living instead of
trying to live up to expectation.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Yeah, And so when you talk about that, I'm just like, oh,
I'm not by.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Myself, so yeah, and thank you.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Yeah, of course. And I think that's the beauty of
being born. I think sometimes we can fear that our
specific vulnerability will not connect with somebody else and make
you feel even more alone because then you share and
then you realize that nobody else feels what you. That's
never been the case. In fact, I find the more
(09:17):
specific specific I've ever gotten with my vulnerability, the more
connected I have and with other people, the more universal
it becomes, because like you said, we all have hard things.
That's part of the human experience. I really believe in
my heart that we're here to evolve and grow, and
whether in the end of the day that's true or not,
(09:39):
it's what gets me through my life. And I find
that there's different paths that get us to kind of
really the same places in life and the same challenges
and the same roadblocks, And it's what shapes us and
what makes us who we are, but it also makes
us connect with other human beings, because what's the point
of life if you're not doing that?
Speaker 1 (10:00):
You know, exactly exactly, and it's like, what an interesting
thing when you layer? You know, the kind of connection
you're talking about cultivating in your life.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
What is.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Really universal is specific, And ironically that's something I talk
about a lot with work, like I think really really
incredible film or television. You know, for some reason, the
show Fleabag is popping into my head like, yeah, that's
an incredibly specific character. Yes, but it felt universal to
so many people because of its specificity. You could go, well,
(10:40):
I don't have her life, but I relate to the
way she feels. And it's I don't think it's any
accident that that phrase comes up while we're talking about vulnerability,
and you're also talking about your creative identity in theater,
in finding a voice, in finding a space where you
(11:02):
got to explore feelings and ironically didn't have to perform
as perfect, right, because the characters are never perfect, so
in a way they can be your outlet to learn.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Yeah. Absolutely, it's so true. Low, I didn't even think
about that it really is an opportunity to play just
human beings and their flawed cells, and you see the
beauty and the lessons and the arcs and the growth.
And it's so crazy that we're constantly being fed these
stories right on TV and in movies and in theater,
(11:38):
and it's like we don't allow ourselves the room to
have that same growth as humans.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yeah, you're supposed to have it all figured out and
you have. The characters we relate to are the ones
that don't.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Yeah, oh crazy. I've really felt recently that I have
never felt more powerful than when I say I don't know,
teach me, show me, Like I'm always willing to have
my mind changed or my mind influenced. I used to,
especially you know, in our business. I think when you
(12:11):
grow up as a kid and you you want to
you have to be a little adult, and you've got
extra responsibilities that kids don't have, and you you kind
of fake it till you make it, and you pretend
you've got it and you don't ask many questions, and
it kind of breeds you to never have an opportunity
to be like, oh I don't know, and I and
I felt so much pressure because of that, and now
(12:33):
I'll go into anything an audition room, a job, a
lunch and and not and and stand with the power
of I don't know it all and it just feels
safe in that. And it's just been so nice to
kind of, yeah, release that pressure off of myself.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
That's really interesting because when you talk about, you know,
finding your love of performing in community theater as a kid,
and then I think about you, I mean not just
you booked a role, You booked the role of meto
soprano at sixteen. Was that both exciting and jarring? Was
(13:14):
that an environment where you felt like you had to
act like you knew everything because you were so young?
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Right?
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Was? I imagine it was amazing but probably a lot
of pressure.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Yes, but not any pressure that anyone there put on me.
They were so if I think back, like so loving
and so caring and so gentle with me and Robert
who played my brother on the show, especially in those
first couple of years. But me Jamie was like, you know,
put up this front that I had it all together
(13:50):
and now I'm cool because I thought that's what I
needed to do. But that whole experience just I this
is in one of those moments where I wish I
could go back, but I understand that it wouldn't have
been the same, but I just I really wish that
I let people in more during that because while it
(14:14):
was ten years of the most incredible I got paid
to go to the best acting school, right and I
just got to work with the greatest people and the
greatest material and have some of the most incredible, like
once in a lifetime experiences. Because of it, my personal
life was in shambles through those whole ten years. So
it's it ended up becoming like a really safe place
(14:37):
for me to land, similar to my community theater, where
no matter what was going on in my personal life,
whether I was married and changed my name and now
I'm divorced, I'm back to Sigler and I'm this and
I'm this size and now I'm this size, and they
just welcomed me no matter what. And that's so beautiful
(14:58):
what it is and it was, and I'm it's I'm
like just now starting to grasp the professional aspect of
like what I was a part of and really understanding
it because for so long it was just about the
personal experience and the family that I was able to
have there and the support that I had that I
(15:19):
really needed during that time in my life.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
And now a word from our sponsors who make this
show possible.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Do you feel like because.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
To your point, you know, nobody ever knows what's going
on in your life. They only see, you know, the
perfectly edited episode with the soundtrack and the quick cuts
and things. Did Was it jarring to be on such
a popular show when you were struggling at home? Or
(15:58):
was it? Was it like a great escape for you,
like to be on something so big and it hit
the zeitgeist in such an incredible way. I mean it
feels like you had lightning in a bottle.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Was it? I love that it felt safe for you
to go to work. Yeah, But do you think it
made you feel like you had to perform a little
more in your life? Or no?
Speaker 3 (16:26):
Well, I already was because I was hiding a pretty
significant diagnosis of MS. So I think what it really
hit me the hardest when the show ended because I
was already in the groove of Meadow. I knew her,
I got her, she was second nature. I mean it's
ten years, you know. I mean she was literally in
(16:47):
my body, in my soul, in my breath like it
was easy to slip into her. But in my personal life,
I was starting to pretend all the time I was
covering up, I was being somebody that I wasn't. I
was lying, I was hiding. And so when the show
was over and I started auditioning again and putting myself
(17:10):
out there, I couldn't be real. I wasn't doing good
work because I had no idea how to be authentic
in my own life. So how the hell am I
going to be authentic in my work? And so it
was like it was another ten years of a real struggle.
(17:32):
I got to do and be part of wonderful projects,
and every once in a while I could get in
a flow, but like it was very difficult for me
because and not because it was, oh, I'm I'm doing
projects that are not, you know, regarded like sopranos. I
(17:53):
mean that, like you said, was lightning in a bottle,
and I'm never gonna like try to achieve that again.
But it just felt like maybe I don't know how
to do this. Maybe it was just like a fluke
that I got that because I was just so all
over the place in my personal life that I and
I was no longer a kid, and I didn't have
the extra care and people weren't true that, like they
(18:17):
were ready for me to be a grown up as
they should have and show up and do my stuff,
and I just I was lost. I was completely lost.
And that was a really really hard transition for me.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Yeah. Well, and I think.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
I think that's something we don't get to talk about
a lot, you know, the the incredible gift of playing
someone for ten years. When you talk about how it
felt to play metal, that's how it felt for me
to play Brook Davis. It was like she's a part
of me. It feels like I have a sister that
I don't actually have, you know.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Yeah, And.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
It's so jarring to try to get someone out of
your body so you can make room for someone else.
And if you have stuff going on where you feel
like you have to be the professional everyone expects, the
performing can actually take you out of authentically performing on
(19:14):
camera and it's like a weird self exploration that you
have to do, and nobody teaches us to do it.
We just have to learn it by doing. It's just
so strange and surreal. So hold on because when we
think about the ten years you did the show you
started at sixteen. Do I have it right that you
(19:37):
got diagnosed at twenty?
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Yep?
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Okay, so halfway through the show, essentially you get this diagnosis.
Did you tell anyone there or were you like I
can't tell a soul and you just had like a
family member or a doctor. How did you juggle this?
Speaker 3 (19:56):
So my parents and my fiance at the time were
in the when I found out the news. So I
had been diagnosed with lymes disease at nineteen. It's still
sort of this question whether it was a misdiagnosis or
could that have woken up a dormant MSG And we'll
never know. I'm I'm done trying to figure that out.
(20:18):
I'm just moving forward. So I had had this kind
of flare of similar symptoms that I had had the
year prior. So I had gone to the hospital just
for some testing, not expecting anything. So my parents, like
I said, were with me and my fiance and I
was told this news. And I think it was like
either the next day or a few days later. I
had had my cast physical. Before you know, you start
(20:43):
each job, you kind of go to this doctor and they,
you know, give a general physical and they're like, all right,
you're well enough to work great. And I had gone
to him because I didn't know what to do, and
I said, I I think I just got diagnosed with MS.
And he's like, uh, yeah, I don't think I think you
should tell anybody about that. And I'm not going to
put this down. You know, I think that you know,
(21:05):
nobody was talking about it back then. I didn't know anybody.
I had never really even heard of the disease, and
nobody in our industry, especially, you know, was was working
or talking about anything like that. This is a really
long time ago. So I just followed that advice because
I also wasn't that symptomatic at the time, so it
wasn't it just wasn't something that I thought about or
(21:30):
that I had to think about all the time. And
so no, I told no one. I told absolutely no
one the very last season I started having So I
should back up a little. I went through divorced, I
got married and went through divorce, and what was really hard,
(21:52):
I wasn't even telling anybody about that. One day, literally
in the makeup trailer, I think the makeup girl was like,
we haven't seen you know AJ around. How's he doing
and I just started bawling because I just couldn't hold
it in. And I remember them all coming around me,
and I remember in that moment, I was sitting in
my hair and makeup chair and I had the hair
and makeup team around me, and I don't remember who
(22:13):
else was in the trailer, maybe Eadie because it was
always her night, early in the morning. And everyone was
just wrapping their arms around me. And I remember thinking,
you can tell them, you can tell them, you can
tell them, and I just I just couldn't do it.
I just was so scared. I'd already told them one secret,
I couldn't share two.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
And so the stress of the divorce really took its
toll on me, as it would on anybody. And I'm
twenty four years old, and I started having these symptoms
like hold, I couldn't hold my bladder, having to feel
like you have to like rush to the bathroom. So
all of a sudden, we would be doing a take
and I'd be like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I gotta
(22:53):
go pee, and they would be like, what the f
what is going on with her?
Speaker 2 (22:56):
You know? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (22:58):
And Jim pulled me aside one day and he was like,
what's going on. I can see that something's happening, and
I felt like tears welling up in my eyes. And
he was just the most like loving, gentle presence. It's
just there's not enough words to describe him.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
And I told.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Him and I said, I'm so fucking scared. I don't
know what to do. And he's like, so I remember,
I'm putting his like big paw on my shoulder and
he's like, whatever you need, I'm not going to tell anyone,
but whatever you need, you let me know. We never
talked about it again. I remember then about a month later,
(23:43):
we were doing one of our photo shoots and Edie
confided in me that she had been fighting breast cancer
at that time, and she showed me that she had
been wearing a wig, and I couldn't believe that I
didn't know, and I was looking at her and I
saw myself like, oh my god, you just shot this
whole season and were fighting cancer and I didn't know.
(24:05):
And so that was the moment that I told her.
And then I told Ayita Taturo, who played my aunt
on the show, one time when her and I went
to lunch, and remember I feeling a relief that just
some people knew at work, like some people knew I
didn't have to talk about it again. We didn't really
(24:26):
discuss it with each other. But it was just a
small bit of comfort that for those last two seasons
I had these three people that God forbid anything happened.
I knew somebody understood what was going on with me. Yeah,
and it's very poetic, but the very very last time
I was ever able to run physically was when I
(24:48):
shot my very last shot, which is the very last
time you ever see Metow when she's walking running across
the street, which is crazy, Like, my body just held
on just long enough for me to finish that job.
But yeah, I just I didn't know how it would
be received. I had also felt already like such a
(25:12):
burden on that show, like I had an eating disorder
in the beginning, I had lime. Then I got married,
and then I got divorce, and I was like, I
just felt like it was probably gonna be like, oh,
another thing with this girl, you know. I just I
couldn't help but feel that way. And so God then
telling them I had a mess, Like what would that mean?
(25:33):
They'd had had in my head? They would have had
to fire me and then, you know, floundering, Like I said,
once the show was over, the way I was, I mean,
there's no way that I could ever even then, on
top of that, tell people what I was dealing with,
you know, I just it just felt like the right decision.
I don't think it was, but it gave me sixteen
(25:56):
years to begin my journey of acceptance with it. It
gave me time to see what this disease would mean
for me and my body, which is hard. It manifests
differently for everyone, So it gave me the time I
think that I needed to figure out how to set
(26:17):
the boundaries that I needed and how to speak about it.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Well, and I think that's what you're speaking to right
now is so profound, and it is something a lot
of people don't have to deal with when you are
such a public person, whether it's a diagnosis, a divorce,
you know, any stage in your personal evolution. Yeah, you
(26:45):
know what an example you can set. You know, you
can be a safe harbor for people by talking openly,
and you also have to learn to be a safe
harbor for yourself before you can do it for anybody else.
And so you know, there's like a there's a real
there's a both.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
And in that.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Yeah, And some people, I'm sure, would say you should
never have to talk about it, and some people would.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Say you should have told everybody right away.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
And it's like enough, the only voice that actually matters
here is yours. And you did it the best way
you knew how, and you did it while coping with
all of the pressure that people in our industry have
to cope with, but certainly that young women have to
cope with, which is, you know, men are allowed to
fail up, be imperfect, have addiction, get divorced, get other
(27:33):
people pregnant, do whatever crazy shit they do. But the
minute a woman does anything that's like less than perfect,
she's a pariah.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
And so you know, it's like.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
A particular brand of nonsense we go through. And yet
you've arrived in this place where you have survived all
these things, where you have thrived through these things, where
you have built this big, beautiful life life, and you
have chosen to share. Yeah, I'm really glad you shared
(28:07):
on your own terms. Thanks, And how how has that?
How was that shift? I mean it did it feel
like leaping and not being able to see the net below? You?
Or were the sixteen years kind of enough that you
felt ready to take that public step, like, yeah, what
is that?
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Like?
Speaker 3 (28:27):
You know, in hindsight, I think that those sixteen years
mainly were what the biggest takeaway for me was how
much I could trust other people because right when I
told you, like I was kind of raised to be
told that I couldn't, especially women. The group of women
(28:50):
that I had around me makes me so emotional to
think about that, like held this secret for me and
covered up for me and held me and pushed me
and sat with me and cried with me and made
me talk about the hard stuff because I always wanted
to be the strong, positive one and never talk about
it like. They are the ones that got me through
(29:13):
those sixteen years, no doubt, and so being able to
build that safety net of community around myself that I
had never felt in my life, that I so desperately
always wanted, I think is what gave me the strength
(29:34):
to ultimately say I have MS. I wasn't expecting like
the world to stop. I mean, like, you know, maybe
for somebody would glance for a minute, I'm like, oh wow,
But it was a big moment for me because I
didn't have to. I was starting to harbor feelings of
shame around it, and you know, when you hold a
(29:56):
secret for so long, you can't help but sort of
have these ugly feelings around it. And the catalyst, which
is super weird to get me to finally because my
friends at that point, and I had also told my
representatives because I was also at work. Now it had
physically manifested the point where you could see that something
(30:16):
was up with my walking, and I would I had
all these little angels around me sometimes, like I did
this pilot once and there was a stunt guy that
could see that I was having struggling and we were
in a group and we were supposed to go across
the street really fast, and he's like, hey, I'm just
going to grab your shirt and hold you while we
move so you can keep up with us. And I
was like, for sure that was a guardian angel because
(30:38):
I was freaking out inside. How I was going to
do this. I had to get this scan and it
looked like I had had a herniated disc, so I
was like, oh my god, this is great. I can
blame my walking on my herniated discs. How I can
get through this next job because you know, people start saying,
what's up, what's going wrong, what's wrong, what's wrong? Sorry
to lose track for a second. So I had this
friend who had seen thishypnotists. It was really helping her
(31:01):
lose weight. But he was like the hypnotist of the
stars and it'd help, you know. I think Oprah had
seen him and he helped Matt Damon quit smoking and
this and that. She's like, Jame, I don't know why,
but like, go see this guy. Maybe he could help
you with your feelings about yourself and this disease. And
I remember I was walking up the driveway to go
see him, and I was looking down as I was walking,
(31:22):
and he said to me, why why are you looking
down when you're walking towards me right now? And I
said because I'm embarrassed and I don't like to watch
people watch me walk. And he was like, okay, let's
go in. And I remember we talked for like two
minutes and then he put me under hypnosis. I don't
(31:43):
know what he said to me. I don't know what
would happen. But I came home that day and I
said to my my husband, I said, I think I'm
ready to talk about this, and he's like, what what,
Like they had been begging for so long, and I
was like, I think I'm ready. I feel safe with
(32:04):
the group of people that I have around me and
my life that if nothing ever comes my way again,
I am fine, I am blessed, I am great. I
have more than I could ever want from this life.
Like I'm going to take I'm going to take this
chance and see what happens. And it was a beautiful, scary,
(32:25):
wonderful moment when I did. It was you know, whenever
you share your vulnerability, I cannot imagine anybody that just
doesn't feel the love that can come back at them.
And I did tenfold and it was beautiful. And I
was very surprised too to hear like so many people
in all walks of life, in all different careers and
occupations were hiding it as well, like people reaching out
(32:49):
to me saying, yeah, I'm afraid to tell my boss
or I'm afraid to tell my friends, because you're so
afraid of people limiting you, judging you. And like I
had said, I really needed to also figure figure out
what this disease was in my body because I don't
want to go with like I don't know, Like I'm
twenty two years in, I know, I know, which gives
me the confidence to fulfill all the roles in my life.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Right.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
But what the also that moment began was my it
It was actually it was as if I had just
gotten diagnosed that day, like I'm like, okay, now I'm
going to know what it's like to live with MS
and have people know. And there was a really long
adjustment period of me still not wanting to ask for help,
(33:34):
me still sort of moving through life the way I
had been for those sixteen years. It took some time.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Wow, that's really profound that it felt like a rediagnosis. Yeah,
or like a new thing. And now a word from
our sponsors. You coped in secret for almost twenty years, yeah,
(34:03):
and now you have all these years under your belt, which,
in a sense you're saying, felt like starting over where
people know. Do you find little shifts like do you
no longer feel shame about the days you're physically presenting?
Do you feel more comfortable asking for help? Like how
(34:27):
does the adjustment because as you say, you know what
this disease is in your particular body, how do you
think the adjustment has shifted your experience.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Now that you know everyone.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Knows, I still hate how I walk. I still I'm
working on that. I still get frustrated. I still get
sad and mad and feel bad. But I let people
(35:02):
help me and I talk about the hard stuff that
I never did before. You know, I had teamed up
with Novartis and created this like three step guide that
we have. It's at reframing ms dot com. Because what
I have found in these moments is that these like
(35:27):
three steps that I constantly come back to have really
been helpful for me. And the first step is reflect
And that means just like sitting with those really hard
feelings that we always want to push away, like the grief,
the grief for my old body, the grief for my
old abilities, the sadness, the depression, and then reflect like
(35:47):
reflect like Okay, this is this is part of my life.
But I there's still a lot of things I want
to do, Like there's still a lot of I'm a
mom and of two active little boys. I still want
to be very present in their lives. I have a
husband that I love and I want to go in
adventures with. And I still love to act, and I
(36:08):
still want to do that. So then the third step
is reframe, like how do I do those things? What
do I need to accomplish those things? Like at work,
I'm so grateful the past couple of jobs that I've
had have really allowed me to just settle into the
creative and not worry about the physical because Sophia like
(36:31):
probably for twenty years, all I cared about was getting
through the day physically, and like the dialogue and the
actual creative was like so on the back burner. So
one of my last jobs like to say like, yeah,
you know, if you can park my trailer like a
little bit closer and just have a chair nearby in
between takes or scenes so I can kind of sit.
(36:52):
And then it just became this like well oiled machine,
and I realized I wasn't a burden, I wasn an extra,
I wasn't a problem, and I kept getting asked back
and then they made me a series regular, and then
I shot this other pilot, which unfortunately never went where.
(37:12):
After I got the role, people were like, you know what,
we're super inspired by you, Jamie. What if this character
gets diagnosed with MS in this show and we go
through this journey with her and I just like these
are things I never thought possible. But also because of
the way it's affected me, I am finally bringing out
(37:32):
a cane, which is like you saw me at Ryan's wedding.
That was like one of the first times that I
brought it out with me because normally I would always
hang on my husband or friends. And I'm like, you
know what I'm like, So I'm gonna give myself the
support that I need because when I wasn't it just
like I don't know you, like I was saying, I
(37:53):
felt shame, and I felt less valuable and I felt
like less of a person, and it took a lot
of Like the help that I'm saying is the talking,
the being vulnerable with my friends, of being like Jamie
like we don't see this at all. They've helped me
figure out how to go to concerts with them. They're like,
we will drop you off, we will go park. You know.
(38:16):
They they make they have forced me to still participate
in my life. And because of all these experiences, which
I think is a lot of the reason I'm gonna
believe is why this is part of my life. Because
of the position that I'm in and the experiences I've
had of being in secret and having to figure out
(38:37):
and be creative to share with other people now because
to know, especially since we've created our podcast Messy like
to connect with the MS community in particular, to be
able to share with these people what they're going through
and for them to be feel seen. For so long,
(39:00):
just thought I was the only one in the world
that felt this way or was going through something like this,
And I'm so honored to be able to share my
experiences now because nobody should ever have to go through
that or feel that way.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
That's the thing, right is whatever it is, and you
know you're bringing up such a universal experiences, whether it's
MS or any diagnosis, whether it's divorce, yeah, anything that
sort of undoes your plans. There is so much shame
when you stay stuck. And the minute you begin to
(39:42):
cultivate community, you realize you're not alone. You realize that
this thing that you're going through is meant to teach
you something and might really be meant to make you
a more whole version of yourself. Like absolutely, isn't it
interesting that you rediscovered your creativity once you let everybody
in on your secret? And I think about that, like
(40:05):
the big life shift for me, you know, I'm the
divorce subject in the last year is like, oh, when
I was trying to act like everything was perfect, I
literally lost myself. I felt like I became a paper doll,
Like I just I went flat. And then I started
(40:25):
to let people in and I realized how many other
people I knew were going through it at the same time,
and suddenly I became like three dimensional again. Yeah, and
everything feels different, including my relationship to my work. That's great,
and it's so surreal, and like, I love hearing you
(40:47):
talk about it, you know, what you and Christina are doing,
and also the way you talk about what you and
your husband do with your boys, Like you're doing this
big thing in the public, and you're also doing this
big thing in your home. And I'm curious, you know,
as a person who doesn't have kids yet but has
(41:07):
always like desired to do that, I wonder, how like
when I would imagine, you know, like you said your
boys are rambunctious, Yeah, you guys are, you know, having
to run around after two of them and you've you've
got everything going on. And then you and Christina are
talking about your experiences with MS and you know, for
(41:28):
our friends at home. Messy the wonderful podcast that Jamielyn
started is with Christina Applegate, who we all you know
know and love and you know who just crushed it
at the Oscars this year. God, she made me laugh
so hard, just the best And did it Was there
any part of you that was nervous to undertake this
other vertical of work or did it just feel like
(41:50):
the next right thing?
Speaker 3 (41:51):
You mean, Messy?
Speaker 2 (41:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (41:53):
No, Messy has been the most fulfilling thing ever work wise.
Like this came from Christina and I having for over
a year really long phone conversations where we would laugh.
I mean, nobody makes me laugh harder than that woman.
(42:16):
We cry, and we were being vulnerable and honest in
ways that I had never been. Yeah, and she she
needed a light at the end of the tunnel a
little bit, which I think I was able to give her.
And I needed somebody to be like, you're gonna say
(42:36):
this is hard today. You're going to say that what
you just did was not easy. You know, You're gonna
say what your feeling is, it's unfair. Like she gave
me the permission to have to take the time to
have those feelings and so these conversations like we're so
wonderful and we were getting to know each other and
one day she said to me, Jane, I think we
(42:57):
need to put these out there. And I said, are
you sure? And She's like, yeah, this is this is
the time. I am done. I have played the role
of Christina Applegate for fifty years and I'm done playing
or I'm ready to be me. I'm ready to put
it all out there. And it's just so inspiring to
watch her just own everything she's feeling unapologetically, and you know,
(43:22):
it's for us to be able to reflect and and
commiserate and support each other. It's I think it's also
just a beautiful representation of female friendships and what they
can do for us. And also I think that you're
(43:45):
gonna you're on this journey of two women that and you,
like you said, we all can relate to this. Are
having to accept something that's hard, accepting a hand that
was doubt that you wish you didn't have, but you'd
do and there's nothing you can do about that. And
what we are doing with that with that acceptance, where
(44:06):
are we going now? What are we You know, you're
you're really catching us in two different stages, but also
in this pivotal moment where her and I both are like,
screw it, we're gonna we're gonna push through, and we're
gonna see what life has to offer. She calls us
to save the babies, like you know, and makes and
maybe cracks the best jokes about it. But it's just
(44:29):
it just feels like it was the most organic. It
came together so organically and in such a way that
you know, when you're like feel like you're just like
riding this wave and you have no control, but you
know it's right. It's just it's just one of those
moments where like, we have no expectations, We have no
(44:49):
like grandiose dreams of like how much money will make
or where it will go, or what we will do.
We are just putting ourselves and our hearts out there
and just trusting that it's it's what we're supposed to
be doing right now.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Well, what it sounds like you're describing is really being
in flow. Yeah, And it's so interesting to me to
hear you talk about it this way because you're also
talking about the fact that she really helped you write
your own permission Slip to have all of your feelings,
not just the perfect ones, yep, not just the nice
ones yep. And I think that is something and wherever
(45:24):
the culture comes from. And I'm sure it's worse for
women who do what we do for work because there
is a lot of performance to it, and God forbid
you have a bad day or say something's hard, people
tell you you're ungrateful the horror, so you know, you
really kind of divest from your anger or your frustration,
and to be able to reclaim that, I think is
(45:46):
actually really healing, especially for women. Yes, whether that's around
relationship or disability or.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
Any of it.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
And I love that as you are reclaiming that other
side of yourself that maybe you used to think you
had to hide or be ashamed of, you're also like, oh,
what's bringing me the most joy? Is like a full
three dimensional honesty.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
My friend.
Speaker 3 (46:13):
Yes, And it's and it kind of goes back to
that letter that I was writing myself, where it's like you,
you know you always it's interesting that life gave you something,
especially in your body, that is it is the most
imperfect now and you love yourself the most that you
ever have in this imperfect body. And I truly do
(46:36):
not know who I would be without MS, and I
don't want to know. As much as it breaks my
heart to struggle physically the way that I do, I
just I know this was meant to be part of
my journey and I am. I'm grateful for it. I
really really am. And I'm and I'm. It is an
honor to be able to have the platform that we
(46:58):
do to share because it is healing exactly what you said,
it is. Healing used to be so heavily focused for
me on the body, right, I would always see healers
and this and that I would I have, I have
tried it all. Yeah, and healing has nothing to do
with my physical body anymore. To me. It's it's healing
(47:20):
my heart, myself, my soul, who I am, and understanding
that I am a perfectly imperfect human being exactly as
I should be. I am loved no matter what I'm
coming into a room with, and that is okay, And
it's it's liberating. It is liberating to feel like I'm
(47:41):
not judging myself all the time. You know, I'm giving
myself grace to be all the colors.
Speaker 2 (47:48):
Yeah, Oh, it's so, it's just so cool.
Speaker 3 (47:52):
Oh, well, you know, it's what what we I wish
for you and anyone, and it's and it again, I
think it's like, really, what we're trying to do with
me is just really, you know, share our experiences so
you can hear yourself in our words, you know.
Speaker 1 (48:08):
Totally and now a word from our wonderful sponsors.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
So how do you, guys, how do you.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
Sort of build the podcast because obviously you co host
it together. You're talking about your journeys which are incredibly
unique yet very universal. So how do you pick guests
or conversation topics or like.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
How did the two of you do this? It's messy.
It's like there's no format. It's not very structured. When
it comes to our solo episodes, her and I will
text each other a lot during the week with our
producer Alison, Alison Bresnik, by the way, who says, hi,
one of my favorite he's the best, and we'll be like,
(49:03):
you know, for instance, we have an episode coming up
on Body Image and it is so good only because like,
oh my god, I'm so proud of Christina and like
just where she led this episode. But it was like,
you know what, I felt insecure at the Emmys, and
I want to talk about it more like great And
it was just an hour of two women just being
(49:24):
open about body image and body issues and how we
fell in all the different ways and our past eating
disorders and things like that. You know. When we had
Edie Falco on, it was an opportunity for me to
hear how she perceived me during that time and it
was just the most beautiful, healing, lovely conversation. We have
Martin short on and it's sixteen minutes of him and
(49:45):
Christina laughing and reminiscing, and at the end of it,
I can look at Christina and go, you just had
an hour remembering who you are and MS does not
define you and you are still that funny, hilarious, loved actress.
It runs the gamut, you know. It's really kind of
all over the place and specific and not specific. It's
(50:08):
just you're really listening in on an intimate conversation between
her and I that has not a lot of planning
going into it.
Speaker 1 (50:16):
I love that. Yeah, I think that that's actually one
of the coolest things in this line of work. What
we get to do is really you just get to
follow a thread and be curious about it.
Speaker 3 (50:26):
Yeah, yeah, you know, I think I went to India
with Ryan, our friend Ryan last year to shoot this
documentary and we lived at this ashrum, and the main
takeaway and the thing that just kept getting repeated from
all the beautiful people that we met there is just
(50:47):
stay curious. Just stay curious about everything about life, about circumstances,
about people, about yourself. It's really, it's really, it's really
the key to life.
Speaker 2 (51:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:03):
So when you think about that, you know, all of
these lessons you've learned, and this twenty plus years of
this layer of yourself being part of your experience, your family,
your work, you know, all of it. When you look
out from this place that feels like you're in so
(51:23):
much flow and like you're in such a beautiful position,
what when you think about, I don't know the rest
of the year, say, what feels like you're work in progress?
Speaker 2 (51:34):
Right now?
Speaker 3 (51:36):
I am loosening my grip on life. I used to feel,
especially you know, in our career, in our industry, like
you feel like you want to control as much as
you can because you have so much little control. Yeah,
and I'm just loosening my grip and I want to
just kind of trust what's going to continue to come
in and out, and when an opportunity rises, I will
(51:58):
work hard like I always do, and I will show
up in the way that I need to. But just
knowing that what is meant for me, what is meant
for me, and what's not is not And I have
that community and that safety net around me, and I'm
just this season of life. It's the worst my body
has ever been, but the best that I have ever been.
(52:19):
And I feel it's crazy that I'm I'm also the
happiest I've ever been in that moment. And it took
a lot of work and a lot of like not work,
do you know what I mean? A lot of work
and a lot of trust and a lot of letting go.
And I'm just really grateful for it all.
Speaker 2 (52:42):
I'm so happy to hear that. Thanks. Thank you for
joining me today.
Speaker 3 (52:46):
Oh thank you for having me. It's so nice to
talk to you.
Hi everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello Whipsmarties.
Today we are joined by an old friend and a
big inspiration to me. Today's guest is Jamie Linn Sigler.
(00:24):
You know her most likely from her iconic role playing
meto soprano on the HBO series The Sopranos.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
She has done.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Incredible work in film, television, theater, I mean hello headlining
a tour at MSG. She is just an unbelievable performer
and also an incredible author. In two thousand and two,
she wrote an autobiography called Wise Girl, What I've Learned
about Life, Love and Loss That is so beautiful. And
(00:54):
this year she started a podcast with Christina Applegate, another
incredible acting ic, on who shares something really personal with
Jamie Lynn. Both of them were diagnosed with MS and
they've started a podcast called Messi based on their friendship
and the lessons they've learned throughout their diagnosis and their
(01:15):
journey with the condition. Jamie Lynn is so vulnerable and
inspiring to me and I know to so many of you.
And while she juggles all of these incredible projects, she
also happens to be a mother of two amazing young
sons with her husband Cutter. They are truly some of
(01:35):
my favorite people to hang out with, people that if
you ever are fortunate enough to be with at a wedding,
you definitely want to hit the dance floor with. And
not only is she so incredibly fun, but she is
so incredibly inspiring. I've probably said that too many times
in this intro, but it's true. I can't wait for
you all to hear this conversation. It really left me
(01:58):
feeling so and really reminded me about what's possible enjoy.
I'm so excited. I felt myself actually wanting to dive
(02:21):
into questions immediately because I was like, I'm just going
to start like blabbing at you and asking you everything anyway,
So I'm glad I pushed record.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Fast Grace, So God.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
I feel like we have so much to catch up on,
and there's also just so much that's exciting in your world.
I'm thrilled about the new project. I have a bajillion
things I want to ask you about. But before we
get into what's going on now, I actually really like
to rewind with people and go way back, because so
(02:56):
many people know you as an actor and an advocate
and all of these amazing.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Things that you are.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
You know, you let us in on your life and
your family and like all the exciting things you guys do.
But I always like to figure out who guests were
before we knew you, and we've known you for a
long time. So if you sit at this vantage point
today and you look back like you, you know you
TiVo rewind back to life when you were eight or nine. Yeah,
(03:28):
do you see yourself in Jamie as a little girl
or were you like a completely different kid?
Speaker 3 (03:36):
So crazy you're asking me this question right now because
I in because of where I'm at in my life
right now, and especially in this stage of my life
where I'm finally realizing that I don't need to hold
anything back and I don't need to hide. I wrote
this letter to my younger self recently, and it's kind
(03:59):
of like the beginnings maybe of a book. And I
am still so much that girl. She's still in me
that she is very insecure, she's very scared of the world.
She doesn't know who to trust. She wants to be
(04:20):
perfect because she feels she won't be loved yet, she
maybe wishes something was wrong, because if something's wrong, people
will love her. And I know that girl so well,
but I want to tell her that while life doesn't
go exactly how she planned or wanted, it's so much better.
(04:45):
It's so much harder, but because of that, it's so beautiful.
And you know, I recently had Edie Falco on our
podcast and she had said to me, you know, because
sometimes I'd said, like God, I wish I could just
go back to that little girl or that moment in
time and redo it and be who I am now.
(05:06):
And she said, but who's to say you would be
who you are now if you weren't that person then,
So little Jamie on the outside had it all, but
on the inside was just very afraid all the time. Yeah,
and not because of you know, my circumstances. You know,
(05:29):
I was raised by two wonderful people. My parents are
still alive and I'm still very close with them. But
you know, my mom grew up in Cuba and came
over as an immigrant in Project Peter Pan during the
revolution and had a very very traumatic childhood. And then
my grandmother came over a year later. And because of
that and their intimate relationship, what helped them survive was
(05:53):
it was them against the world and nobody else. We
couldn't trust anybody else, and so that was she I
thought she was protecting me. But that's kind of the
world that she thought I was going to be going
into as well. And so it took a lot of unlearning,
like a lifetime, you know, forty years of unlearning of that. Yeah,
(06:14):
But even though she had that, I was also bolstered
by this like beautiful community of community theater on Long Island,
which became my home away from home, and I loved
it so much, and it was it felt you know,
I think when you're a creative person and you get
an opportunity to like live in your creativity, especially at
(06:38):
a young age, it just feels so effortless and feels
like you're calling and feels like what you're meant to do,
and you really can't explain why. And I'm really lucky
that I was able to have that as a little girl,
because I don't know what would have happened if I didn't.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Yeah, yeah, God, it's a big deal to have, you know,
a place of space and outlet and especially it's so
wild that well, thank you first of all, before I
say the craziness of the parallel. Thank you for being
as honest and transparent as you just were.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Oh yeah, I almost don't know any other way now,
or I don't want to.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
I don't either, And it's funny.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
I just recently had a very in depth conversation with
a friend of mine who's a journalist, and she was like, God,
I just thank you for being willing to be so honest.
And I think what I've realized is like, if we're
not being honest and we're not being vulnerable with each other, like,
what are we doing talking? What are we doing taking
(07:43):
up space? Because to your point, life is hard, and
no matter what it looks like on the outside for anyone,
people are struggling. And like the way you're talking about
your experiences as a little girl, like my my inner
child is like you too. You know, I grew up
(08:04):
with you know, my mom came from a family with
a lot of trauma and their immigration stories. My dad,
you know, was an immigrant as well. And there's there
really is something I think to that and to that
identity and to the wanting to be the perfect picture
of the American dream. And I, from a very young age,
(08:29):
before I even started performing, learned that like I had
to be a perfect daughter and a perfect you know, neighbor,
and there was a lot of fear and it took
me a really long time to start living instead of
trying to live up to expectation.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Yeah, And so when you talk about that, I'm just like, oh,
I'm not by.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Myself, so yeah, and thank you.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Yeah, of course. And I think that's the beauty of
being born. I think sometimes we can fear that our
specific vulnerability will not connect with somebody else and make
you feel even more alone because then you share and
then you realize that nobody else feels what you. That's
never been the case. In fact, I find the more
(09:17):
specific specific I've ever gotten with my vulnerability, the more
connected I have and with other people, the more universal
it becomes, because like you said, we all have hard things.
That's part of the human experience. I really believe in
my heart that we're here to evolve and grow, and
whether in the end of the day that's true or not,
(09:39):
it's what gets me through my life. And I find
that there's different paths that get us to kind of
really the same places in life and the same challenges
and the same roadblocks, And it's what shapes us and
what makes us who we are, but it also makes
us connect with other human beings, because what's the point
of life if you're not doing that?
Speaker 1 (10:00):
You know, exactly exactly, and it's like, what an interesting
thing when you layer? You know, the kind of connection
you're talking about cultivating in your life.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
What is.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Really universal is specific, And ironically that's something I talk
about a lot with work, like I think really really
incredible film or television. You know, for some reason, the
show Fleabag is popping into my head like, yeah, that's
an incredibly specific character. Yes, but it felt universal to
so many people because of its specificity. You could go, well,
(10:40):
I don't have her life, but I relate to the
way she feels. And it's I don't think it's any
accident that that phrase comes up while we're talking about vulnerability,
and you're also talking about your creative identity in theater,
in finding a voice, in finding a space where you
(11:02):
got to explore feelings and ironically didn't have to perform
as perfect, right, because the characters are never perfect, so
in a way they can be your outlet to learn.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Yeah. Absolutely, it's so true. Low, I didn't even think
about that it really is an opportunity to play just
human beings and their flawed cells, and you see the
beauty and the lessons and the arcs and the growth.
And it's so crazy that we're constantly being fed these
stories right on TV and in movies and in theater,
(11:38):
and it's like we don't allow ourselves the room to
have that same growth as humans.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yeah, you're supposed to have it all figured out and
you have. The characters we relate to are the ones
that don't.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Yeah, oh crazy. I've really felt recently that I have
never felt more powerful than when I say I don't know,
teach me, show me, Like I'm always willing to have
my mind changed or my mind influenced. I used to,
especially you know, in our business. I think when you
(12:11):
grow up as a kid and you you want to
you have to be a little adult, and you've got
extra responsibilities that kids don't have, and you you kind
of fake it till you make it, and you pretend
you've got it and you don't ask many questions, and
it kind of breeds you to never have an opportunity
to be like, oh I don't know, and I and
I felt so much pressure because of that, and now
(12:33):
I'll go into anything an audition room, a job, a
lunch and and not and and stand with the power
of I don't know it all and it just feels
safe in that. And it's just been so nice to
kind of, yeah, release that pressure off of myself.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
That's really interesting because when you talk about, you know,
finding your love of performing in community theater as a kid,
and then I think about you, I mean not just
you booked a role, You booked the role of meto
soprano at sixteen. Was that both exciting and jarring? Was
(13:14):
that an environment where you felt like you had to
act like you knew everything because you were so young?
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Right?
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Was? I imagine it was amazing but probably a lot
of pressure.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Yes, but not any pressure that anyone there put on me.
They were so if I think back, like so loving
and so caring and so gentle with me and Robert
who played my brother on the show, especially in those
first couple of years. But me Jamie was like, you know,
put up this front that I had it all together
(13:50):
and now I'm cool because I thought that's what I
needed to do. But that whole experience just I this
is in one of those moments where I wish I
could go back, but I understand that it wouldn't have
been the same, but I just I really wish that
I let people in more during that because while it
(14:14):
was ten years of the most incredible I got paid
to go to the best acting school, right and I
just got to work with the greatest people and the
greatest material and have some of the most incredible, like
once in a lifetime experiences. Because of it, my personal
life was in shambles through those whole ten years. So
it's it ended up becoming like a really safe place
(14:37):
for me to land, similar to my community theater, where
no matter what was going on in my personal life,
whether I was married and changed my name and now
I'm divorced, I'm back to Sigler and I'm this and
I'm this size and now I'm this size, and they
just welcomed me no matter what. And that's so beautiful
(14:58):
what it is and it was, and I'm it's I'm
like just now starting to grasp the professional aspect of
like what I was a part of and really understanding
it because for so long it was just about the
personal experience and the family that I was able to
have there and the support that I had that I
(15:19):
really needed during that time in my life.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
And now a word from our sponsors who make this
show possible.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Do you feel like because.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
To your point, you know, nobody ever knows what's going
on in your life. They only see, you know, the
perfectly edited episode with the soundtrack and the quick cuts
and things. Did Was it jarring to be on such
a popular show when you were struggling at home? Or
(15:58):
was it? Was it like a great escape for you,
like to be on something so big and it hit
the zeitgeist in such an incredible way. I mean it
feels like you had lightning in a bottle.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Was it? I love that it felt safe for you
to go to work. Yeah, But do you think it
made you feel like you had to perform a little
more in your life? Or no?
Speaker 3 (16:26):
Well, I already was because I was hiding a pretty
significant diagnosis of MS. So I think what it really
hit me the hardest when the show ended because I
was already in the groove of Meadow. I knew her,
I got her, she was second nature. I mean it's
ten years, you know. I mean she was literally in
(16:47):
my body, in my soul, in my breath like it
was easy to slip into her. But in my personal life,
I was starting to pretend all the time I was
covering up, I was being somebody that I wasn't. I
was lying, I was hiding. And so when the show
was over and I started auditioning again and putting myself
(17:10):
out there, I couldn't be real. I wasn't doing good
work because I had no idea how to be authentic
in my own life. So how the hell am I
going to be authentic in my work? And so it
was like it was another ten years of a real struggle.
(17:32):
I got to do and be part of wonderful projects,
and every once in a while I could get in
a flow, but like it was very difficult for me
because and not because it was, oh, I'm I'm doing
projects that are not, you know, regarded like sopranos. I
(17:53):
mean that, like you said, was lightning in a bottle,
and I'm never gonna like try to achieve that again.
But it just felt like maybe I don't know how
to do this. Maybe it was just like a fluke
that I got that because I was just so all
over the place in my personal life that I and
I was no longer a kid, and I didn't have
the extra care and people weren't true that, like they
(18:17):
were ready for me to be a grown up as
they should have and show up and do my stuff,
and I just I was lost. I was completely lost.
And that was a really really hard transition for me.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Yeah. Well, and I think.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
I think that's something we don't get to talk about
a lot, you know, the the incredible gift of playing
someone for ten years. When you talk about how it
felt to play metal, that's how it felt for me
to play Brook Davis. It was like she's a part
of me. It feels like I have a sister that
I don't actually have, you know.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Yeah, And.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
It's so jarring to try to get someone out of
your body so you can make room for someone else.
And if you have stuff going on where you feel
like you have to be the professional everyone expects, the
performing can actually take you out of authentically performing on
(19:14):
camera and it's like a weird self exploration that you
have to do, and nobody teaches us to do it.
We just have to learn it by doing. It's just
so strange and surreal. So hold on because when we
think about the ten years you did the show you
started at sixteen. Do I have it right that you
(19:37):
got diagnosed at twenty?
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Yep?
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Okay, so halfway through the show, essentially you get this diagnosis.
Did you tell anyone there or were you like I
can't tell a soul and you just had like a
family member or a doctor. How did you juggle this?
Speaker 3 (19:56):
So my parents and my fiance at the time were
in the when I found out the news. So I
had been diagnosed with lymes disease at nineteen. It's still
sort of this question whether it was a misdiagnosis or
could that have woken up a dormant MSG And we'll
never know. I'm I'm done trying to figure that out.
(20:18):
I'm just moving forward. So I had had this kind
of flare of similar symptoms that I had had the
year prior. So I had gone to the hospital just
for some testing, not expecting anything. So my parents, like
I said, were with me and my fiance and I
was told this news. And I think it was like
either the next day or a few days later. I
had had my cast physical. Before you know, you start
(20:43):
each job, you kind of go to this doctor and they,
you know, give a general physical and they're like, all right,
you're well enough to work great. And I had gone
to him because I didn't know what to do, and
I said, I I think I just got diagnosed with MS.
And he's like, uh, yeah, I don't think I think you
should tell anybody about that. And I'm not going to
put this down. You know, I think that you know,
(21:05):
nobody was talking about it back then. I didn't know anybody.
I had never really even heard of the disease, and
nobody in our industry, especially, you know, was was working
or talking about anything like that. This is a really
long time ago. So I just followed that advice because
I also wasn't that symptomatic at the time, so it
wasn't it just wasn't something that I thought about or
(21:30):
that I had to think about all the time. And
so no, I told no one. I told absolutely no
one the very last season I started having So I
should back up a little. I went through divorced, I
got married and went through divorce, and what was really hard,
(21:52):
I wasn't even telling anybody about that. One day, literally
in the makeup trailer, I think the makeup girl was like,
we haven't seen you know AJ around. How's he doing
and I just started bawling because I just couldn't hold
it in. And I remember them all coming around me,
and I remember in that moment, I was sitting in
my hair and makeup chair and I had the hair
and makeup team around me, and I don't remember who
(22:13):
else was in the trailer, maybe Eadie because it was
always her night, early in the morning. And everyone was
just wrapping their arms around me. And I remember thinking,
you can tell them, you can tell them, you can
tell them, and I just I just couldn't do it.
I just was so scared. I'd already told them one secret,
I couldn't share two.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
And so the stress of the divorce really took its
toll on me, as it would on anybody. And I'm
twenty four years old, and I started having these symptoms
like hold, I couldn't hold my bladder, having to feel
like you have to like rush to the bathroom. So
all of a sudden, we would be doing a take
and I'd be like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I gotta
(22:53):
go pee, and they would be like, what the f
what is going on with her?
Speaker 2 (22:56):
You know? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (22:58):
And Jim pulled me aside one day and he was like,
what's going on. I can see that something's happening, and
I felt like tears welling up in my eyes. And
he was just the most like loving, gentle presence. It's
just there's not enough words to describe him.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
And I told.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Him and I said, I'm so fucking scared. I don't
know what to do. And he's like, so I remember,
I'm putting his like big paw on my shoulder and
he's like, whatever you need, I'm not going to tell anyone,
but whatever you need, you let me know. We never
talked about it again. I remember then about a month later,
(23:43):
we were doing one of our photo shoots and Edie
confided in me that she had been fighting breast cancer
at that time, and she showed me that she had
been wearing a wig, and I couldn't believe that I
didn't know, and I was looking at her and I
saw myself like, oh my god, you just shot this
whole season and were fighting cancer and I didn't know.
(24:05):
And so that was the moment that I told her.
And then I told Ayita Taturo, who played my aunt
on the show, one time when her and I went
to lunch, and remember I feeling a relief that just
some people knew at work, like some people knew I
didn't have to talk about it again. We didn't really
(24:26):
discuss it with each other. But it was just a
small bit of comfort that for those last two seasons
I had these three people that God forbid anything happened.
I knew somebody understood what was going on with me. Yeah,
and it's very poetic, but the very very last time
I was ever able to run physically was when I
(24:48):
shot my very last shot, which is the very last
time you ever see Metow when she's walking running across
the street, which is crazy, Like, my body just held
on just long enough for me to finish that job.
But yeah, I just I didn't know how it would
be received. I had also felt already like such a
(25:12):
burden on that show, like I had an eating disorder
in the beginning, I had lime. Then I got married,
and then I got divorce, and I was like, I
just felt like it was probably gonna be like, oh,
another thing with this girl, you know. I just I
couldn't help but feel that way. And so God then
telling them I had a mess, Like what would that mean?
(25:33):
They'd had had in my head? They would have had
to fire me and then, you know, floundering, Like I said,
once the show was over, the way I was, I mean,
there's no way that I could ever even then, on
top of that, tell people what I was dealing with,
you know, I just it just felt like the right decision.
I don't think it was, but it gave me sixteen
(25:56):
years to begin my journey of acceptance with it. It
gave me time to see what this disease would mean
for me and my body, which is hard. It manifests
differently for everyone, So it gave me the time I
think that I needed to figure out how to set
(26:17):
the boundaries that I needed and how to speak about it.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Well, and I think that's what you're speaking to right
now is so profound, and it is something a lot
of people don't have to deal with when you are
such a public person, whether it's a diagnosis, a divorce,
you know, any stage in your personal evolution. Yeah, you
(26:45):
know what an example you can set. You know, you
can be a safe harbor for people by talking openly,
and you also have to learn to be a safe
harbor for yourself before you can do it for anybody else.
And so you know, there's like a there's a real
there's a both.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
And in that.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Yeah, And some people, I'm sure, would say you should
never have to talk about it, and some people would.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Say you should have told everybody right away.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
And it's like enough, the only voice that actually matters
here is yours. And you did it the best way
you knew how, and you did it while coping with
all of the pressure that people in our industry have
to cope with, but certainly that young women have to
cope with, which is, you know, men are allowed to
fail up, be imperfect, have addiction, get divorced, get other
(27:33):
people pregnant, do whatever crazy shit they do. But the
minute a woman does anything that's like less than perfect,
she's a pariah.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
And so you know, it's like.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
A particular brand of nonsense we go through. And yet
you've arrived in this place where you have survived all
these things, where you have thrived through these things, where
you have built this big, beautiful life life, and you
have chosen to share. Yeah, I'm really glad you shared
(28:07):
on your own terms. Thanks, And how how has that?
How was that shift? I mean it did it feel
like leaping and not being able to see the net below? You?
Or were the sixteen years kind of enough that you
felt ready to take that public step, like, yeah, what
is that?
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Like?
Speaker 3 (28:27):
You know, in hindsight, I think that those sixteen years
mainly were what the biggest takeaway for me was how
much I could trust other people because right when I
told you, like I was kind of raised to be
told that I couldn't, especially women. The group of women
(28:50):
that I had around me makes me so emotional to
think about that, like held this secret for me and
covered up for me and held me and pushed me
and sat with me and cried with me and made
me talk about the hard stuff because I always wanted
to be the strong, positive one and never talk about
it like. They are the ones that got me through
(29:13):
those sixteen years, no doubt, and so being able to
build that safety net of community around myself that I
had never felt in my life, that I so desperately
always wanted, I think is what gave me the strength
(29:34):
to ultimately say I have MS. I wasn't expecting like
the world to stop. I mean, like, you know, maybe
for somebody would glance for a minute, I'm like, oh wow,
But it was a big moment for me because I
didn't have to. I was starting to harbor feelings of
shame around it, and you know, when you hold a
(29:56):
secret for so long, you can't help but sort of
have these ugly feelings around it. And the catalyst, which
is super weird to get me to finally because my
friends at that point, and I had also told my
representatives because I was also at work. Now it had
physically manifested the point where you could see that something
(30:16):
was up with my walking, and I would I had
all these little angels around me sometimes, like I did
this pilot once and there was a stunt guy that
could see that I was having struggling and we were
in a group and we were supposed to go across
the street really fast, and he's like, hey, I'm just
going to grab your shirt and hold you while we
move so you can keep up with us. And I
was like, for sure that was a guardian angel because
(30:38):
I was freaking out inside. How I was going to
do this. I had to get this scan and it
looked like I had had a herniated disc, so I
was like, oh my god, this is great. I can
blame my walking on my herniated discs. How I can
get through this next job because you know, people start saying,
what's up, what's going wrong, what's wrong, what's wrong? Sorry
to lose track for a second. So I had this
friend who had seen thishypnotists. It was really helping her
(31:01):
lose weight. But he was like the hypnotist of the
stars and it'd help, you know. I think Oprah had
seen him and he helped Matt Damon quit smoking and
this and that. She's like, Jame, I don't know why,
but like, go see this guy. Maybe he could help
you with your feelings about yourself and this disease. And
I remember I was walking up the driveway to go
see him, and I was looking down as I was walking,
(31:22):
and he said to me, why why are you looking
down when you're walking towards me right now? And I
said because I'm embarrassed and I don't like to watch
people watch me walk. And he was like, okay, let's
go in. And I remember we talked for like two
minutes and then he put me under hypnosis. I don't
(31:43):
know what he said to me. I don't know what
would happen. But I came home that day and I
said to my my husband, I said, I think I'm
ready to talk about this, and he's like, what what,
Like they had been begging for so long, and I
was like, I think I'm ready. I feel safe with
(32:04):
the group of people that I have around me and
my life that if nothing ever comes my way again,
I am fine, I am blessed, I am great. I
have more than I could ever want from this life.
Like I'm going to take I'm going to take this
chance and see what happens. And it was a beautiful, scary,
(32:25):
wonderful moment when I did. It was you know, whenever
you share your vulnerability, I cannot imagine anybody that just
doesn't feel the love that can come back at them.
And I did tenfold and it was beautiful. And I
was very surprised too to hear like so many people
in all walks of life, in all different careers and
occupations were hiding it as well, like people reaching out
(32:49):
to me saying, yeah, I'm afraid to tell my boss
or I'm afraid to tell my friends, because you're so
afraid of people limiting you, judging you. And like I
had said, I really needed to also figure figure out
what this disease was in my body because I don't
want to go with like I don't know, Like I'm
twenty two years in, I know, I know, which gives
me the confidence to fulfill all the roles in my life.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Right.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
But what the also that moment began was my it
It was actually it was as if I had just
gotten diagnosed that day, like I'm like, okay, now I'm
going to know what it's like to live with MS
and have people know. And there was a really long
adjustment period of me still not wanting to ask for help,
(33:34):
me still sort of moving through life the way I
had been for those sixteen years. It took some time.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Wow, that's really profound that it felt like a rediagnosis. Yeah,
or like a new thing. And now a word from
our sponsors. You coped in secret for almost twenty years, yeah,
(34:03):
and now you have all these years under your belt, which,
in a sense you're saying, felt like starting over where
people know. Do you find little shifts like do you
no longer feel shame about the days you're physically presenting?
Do you feel more comfortable asking for help? Like how
(34:27):
does the adjustment because as you say, you know what
this disease is in your particular body, how do you
think the adjustment has shifted your experience.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Now that you know everyone.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Knows, I still hate how I walk. I still I'm
working on that. I still get frustrated. I still get
sad and mad and feel bad. But I let people
(35:02):
help me and I talk about the hard stuff that
I never did before. You know, I had teamed up
with Novartis and created this like three step guide that
we have. It's at reframing ms dot com. Because what
I have found in these moments is that these like
(35:27):
three steps that I constantly come back to have really
been helpful for me. And the first step is reflect
And that means just like sitting with those really hard
feelings that we always want to push away, like the grief,
the grief for my old body, the grief for my
old abilities, the sadness, the depression, and then reflect like
(35:47):
reflect like Okay, this is this is part of my life.
But I there's still a lot of things I want
to do, Like there's still a lot of I'm a
mom and of two active little boys. I still want
to be very present in their lives. I have a
husband that I love and I want to go in
adventures with. And I still love to act, and I
(36:08):
still want to do that. So then the third step
is reframe, like how do I do those things? What
do I need to accomplish those things? Like at work,
I'm so grateful the past couple of jobs that I've
had have really allowed me to just settle into the
creative and not worry about the physical because Sophia like
(36:31):
probably for twenty years, all I cared about was getting
through the day physically, and like the dialogue and the
actual creative was like so on the back burner. So
one of my last jobs like to say like, yeah,
you know, if you can park my trailer like a
little bit closer and just have a chair nearby in
between takes or scenes so I can kind of sit.
(36:52):
And then it just became this like well oiled machine,
and I realized I wasn't a burden, I wasn an extra,
I wasn't a problem, and I kept getting asked back
and then they made me a series regular, and then
I shot this other pilot, which unfortunately never went where.
(37:12):
After I got the role, people were like, you know what,
we're super inspired by you, Jamie. What if this character
gets diagnosed with MS in this show and we go
through this journey with her and I just like these
are things I never thought possible. But also because of
the way it's affected me, I am finally bringing out
(37:32):
a cane, which is like you saw me at Ryan's wedding.
That was like one of the first times that I
brought it out with me because normally I would always
hang on my husband or friends. And I'm like, you
know what I'm like, So I'm gonna give myself the
support that I need because when I wasn't it just
like I don't know you, like I was saying, I
(37:53):
felt shame, and I felt less valuable and I felt
like less of a person, and it took a lot
of Like the help that I'm saying is the talking,
the being vulnerable with my friends, of being like Jamie
like we don't see this at all. They've helped me
figure out how to go to concerts with them. They're like,
we will drop you off, we will go park. You know.
(38:16):
They they make they have forced me to still participate
in my life. And because of all these experiences, which
I think is a lot of the reason I'm gonna
believe is why this is part of my life. Because
of the position that I'm in and the experiences I've
had of being in secret and having to figure out
(38:37):
and be creative to share with other people now because
to know, especially since we've created our podcast Messy like
to connect with the MS community in particular, to be
able to share with these people what they're going through
and for them to be feel seen. For so long,
(39:00):
just thought I was the only one in the world
that felt this way or was going through something like this,
And I'm so honored to be able to share my
experiences now because nobody should ever have to go through
that or feel that way.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
That's the thing, right is whatever it is, and you
know you're bringing up such a universal experiences, whether it's
MS or any diagnosis, whether it's divorce, yeah, anything that
sort of undoes your plans. There is so much shame
when you stay stuck. And the minute you begin to
(39:42):
cultivate community, you realize you're not alone. You realize that
this thing that you're going through is meant to teach
you something and might really be meant to make you
a more whole version of yourself. Like absolutely, isn't it
interesting that you rediscovered your creativity once you let everybody
in on your secret? And I think about that, like
(40:05):
the big life shift for me, you know, I'm the
divorce subject in the last year is like, oh, when
I was trying to act like everything was perfect, I
literally lost myself. I felt like I became a paper doll,
Like I just I went flat. And then I started
(40:25):
to let people in and I realized how many other
people I knew were going through it at the same time,
and suddenly I became like three dimensional again. Yeah, and
everything feels different, including my relationship to my work. That's great,
and it's so surreal, and like, I love hearing you
(40:47):
talk about it, you know, what you and Christina are doing,
and also the way you talk about what you and
your husband do with your boys, Like you're doing this
big thing in the public, and you're also doing this
big thing in your home. And I'm curious, you know,
as a person who doesn't have kids yet but has
(41:07):
always like desired to do that, I wonder, how like
when I would imagine, you know, like you said your
boys are rambunctious, Yeah, you guys are, you know, having
to run around after two of them and you've you've
got everything going on. And then you and Christina are
talking about your experiences with MS and you know, for
(41:28):
our friends at home. Messy the wonderful podcast that Jamielyn
started is with Christina Applegate, who we all you know
know and love and you know who just crushed it
at the Oscars this year. God, she made me laugh
so hard, just the best And did it Was there
any part of you that was nervous to undertake this
other vertical of work or did it just feel like
(41:50):
the next right thing?
Speaker 3 (41:51):
You mean, Messy?
Speaker 2 (41:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (41:53):
No, Messy has been the most fulfilling thing ever work wise.
Like this came from Christina and I having for over
a year really long phone conversations where we would laugh.
I mean, nobody makes me laugh harder than that woman.
(42:16):
We cry, and we were being vulnerable and honest in
ways that I had never been. Yeah, and she she
needed a light at the end of the tunnel a
little bit, which I think I was able to give her.
And I needed somebody to be like, you're gonna say
(42:36):
this is hard today. You're going to say that what
you just did was not easy. You know, You're gonna
say what your feeling is, it's unfair. Like she gave
me the permission to have to take the time to
have those feelings and so these conversations like we're so
wonderful and we were getting to know each other and
one day she said to me, Jane, I think we
(42:57):
need to put these out there. And I said, are
you sure? And She's like, yeah, this is this is
the time. I am done. I have played the role
of Christina Applegate for fifty years and I'm done playing
or I'm ready to be me. I'm ready to put
it all out there. And it's just so inspiring to
watch her just own everything she's feeling unapologetically, and you know,
(43:22):
it's for us to be able to reflect and and
commiserate and support each other. It's I think it's also
just a beautiful representation of female friendships and what they
can do for us. And also I think that you're
(43:45):
gonna you're on this journey of two women that and you,
like you said, we all can relate to this. Are
having to accept something that's hard, accepting a hand that
was doubt that you wish you didn't have, but you'd
do and there's nothing you can do about that. And
what we are doing with that with that acceptance, where
(44:06):
are we going now? What are we You know, you're
you're really catching us in two different stages, but also
in this pivotal moment where her and I both are like,
screw it, we're gonna we're gonna push through, and we're
gonna see what life has to offer. She calls us
to save the babies, like you know, and makes and
maybe cracks the best jokes about it. But it's just
(44:29):
it just feels like it was the most organic. It
came together so organically and in such a way that
you know, when you're like feel like you're just like
riding this wave and you have no control, but you
know it's right. It's just it's just one of those
moments where like, we have no expectations, We have no
(44:49):
like grandiose dreams of like how much money will make
or where it will go, or what we will do.
We are just putting ourselves and our hearts out there
and just trusting that it's it's what we're supposed to
be doing right now.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Well, what it sounds like you're describing is really being
in flow. Yeah, And it's so interesting to me to
hear you talk about it this way because you're also
talking about the fact that she really helped you write
your own permission Slip to have all of your feelings,
not just the perfect ones, yep, not just the nice
ones yep. And I think that is something and wherever
(45:24):
the culture comes from. And I'm sure it's worse for
women who do what we do for work because there
is a lot of performance to it, and God forbid
you have a bad day or say something's hard, people
tell you you're ungrateful the horror, so you know, you
really kind of divest from your anger or your frustration,
and to be able to reclaim that, I think is
(45:46):
actually really healing, especially for women. Yes, whether that's around
relationship or disability or.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
Any of it.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
And I love that as you are reclaiming that other
side of yourself that maybe you used to think you
had to hide or be ashamed of, you're also like, oh,
what's bringing me the most joy? Is like a full
three dimensional honesty.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
My friend.
Speaker 3 (46:13):
Yes, And it's and it kind of goes back to
that letter that I was writing myself, where it's like you,
you know you always it's interesting that life gave you something,
especially in your body, that is it is the most
imperfect now and you love yourself the most that you
ever have in this imperfect body. And I truly do
(46:36):
not know who I would be without MS, and I
don't want to know. As much as it breaks my
heart to struggle physically the way that I do, I
just I know this was meant to be part of
my journey and I am. I'm grateful for it. I
really really am. And I'm and I'm. It is an
honor to be able to have the platform that we
(46:58):
do to share because it is healing exactly what you said,
it is. Healing used to be so heavily focused for
me on the body, right, I would always see healers
and this and that I would I have, I have
tried it all. Yeah, and healing has nothing to do
with my physical body anymore. To me. It's it's healing
(47:20):
my heart, myself, my soul, who I am, and understanding
that I am a perfectly imperfect human being exactly as
I should be. I am loved no matter what I'm
coming into a room with, and that is okay, And
it's it's liberating. It is liberating to feel like I'm
(47:41):
not judging myself all the time. You know, I'm giving
myself grace to be all the colors.
Speaker 2 (47:48):
Yeah, Oh, it's so, it's just so cool.
Speaker 3 (47:52):
Oh, well, you know, it's what what we I wish
for you and anyone, and it's and it again, I
think it's like, really, what we're trying to do with
me is just really, you know, share our experiences so
you can hear yourself in our words, you know.
Speaker 1 (48:08):
Totally and now a word from our wonderful sponsors.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
So how do you, guys, how do you.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
Sort of build the podcast because obviously you co host
it together. You're talking about your journeys which are incredibly
unique yet very universal. So how do you pick guests
or conversation topics or like.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
How did the two of you do this? It's messy.
It's like there's no format. It's not very structured. When
it comes to our solo episodes, her and I will
text each other a lot during the week with our
producer Alison, Alison Bresnik, by the way, who says, hi,
one of my favorite he's the best, and we'll be like,
(49:03):
you know, for instance, we have an episode coming up
on Body Image and it is so good only because like,
oh my god, I'm so proud of Christina and like
just where she led this episode. But it was like,
you know what, I felt insecure at the Emmys, and
I want to talk about it more like great And
it was just an hour of two women just being
(49:24):
open about body image and body issues and how we
fell in all the different ways and our past eating
disorders and things like that. You know. When we had
Edie Falco on, it was an opportunity for me to
hear how she perceived me during that time and it
was just the most beautiful, healing, lovely conversation. We have
Martin short on and it's sixteen minutes of him and
(49:45):
Christina laughing and reminiscing, and at the end of it,
I can look at Christina and go, you just had
an hour remembering who you are and MS does not
define you and you are still that funny, hilarious, loved actress.
It runs the gamut, you know. It's really kind of
all over the place and specific and not specific. It's
(50:08):
just you're really listening in on an intimate conversation between
her and I that has not a lot of planning
going into it.
Speaker 1 (50:16):
I love that. Yeah, I think that that's actually one
of the coolest things in this line of work. What
we get to do is really you just get to
follow a thread and be curious about it.
Speaker 3 (50:26):
Yeah, yeah, you know, I think I went to India
with Ryan, our friend Ryan last year to shoot this
documentary and we lived at this ashrum, and the main
takeaway and the thing that just kept getting repeated from
all the beautiful people that we met there is just
(50:47):
stay curious. Just stay curious about everything about life, about circumstances,
about people, about yourself. It's really, it's really, it's really
the key to life.
Speaker 2 (51:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:03):
So when you think about that, you know, all of
these lessons you've learned, and this twenty plus years of
this layer of yourself being part of your experience, your family,
your work, you know, all of it. When you look
out from this place that feels like you're in so
(51:23):
much flow and like you're in such a beautiful position,
what when you think about, I don't know the rest
of the year, say, what feels like you're work in progress?
Speaker 2 (51:34):
Right now?
Speaker 3 (51:36):
I am loosening my grip on life. I used to feel,
especially you know, in our career, in our industry, like
you feel like you want to control as much as
you can because you have so much little control. Yeah,
and I'm just loosening my grip and I want to
just kind of trust what's going to continue to come
in and out, and when an opportunity rises, I will
(51:58):
work hard like I always do, and I will show
up in the way that I need to. But just
knowing that what is meant for me, what is meant
for me, and what's not is not And I have
that community and that safety net around me, and I'm
just this season of life. It's the worst my body
has ever been, but the best that I have ever been.
(52:19):
And I feel it's crazy that I'm I'm also the
happiest I've ever been in that moment. And it took
a lot of work and a lot of like not work,
do you know what I mean? A lot of work
and a lot of trust and a lot of letting go.
And I'm just really grateful for it all.
Speaker 2 (52:42):
I'm so happy to hear that. Thanks. Thank you for
joining me today.
Speaker 3 (52:46):
Oh thank you for having me. It's so nice to
talk to you.
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