April 18, 2024 • 38 mins
ABC News Correspondent Linsey Davis wanted to be a lawyer but found herself on a different path. Now, she's an award-winning journalist who anchors ABC News Live Prime and "World News Tonight" on the weekend.
Linsey joins Sophia to talk about the moment she decided to pursue journalism and why, mentors who helped her along her journey, covering politics, and what it's like interviewing some of the biggest newsmakers in the world, including her thoughts on Hillary Clinton when the camera's stopped rolling.
Plus, besides being an accomplished journalist, Linsey is also a best-selling author! She discusses the inspiration behind her sixth children's book, "Girls of the World: Doing More Than Ever Before."
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in Progress. Welcome
back to work in Progress, Whips Marties. As you all know,
I get particularly geeked when I get to interview journalists,
(00:22):
and today's guest is an American broadcast journalist that I
respect so much. She anchors the Sunday edition of World
News Tonight, She anchors ABC News Live Prime, and is
constantly traveling for ABC this year on the campaign trail.
Today's guest is Lindsay Davis. She graduated from Worstown Friends
(00:43):
School in New Jersey, earned a bachelor's degree from the
University of Virginia, a master's degree in communication from New
York University, and now travels the country making sure that
we all know what's happening in our world. She's doing
incredible election coverage this year for US, and in the
absolute lack of spare time that she has, she has
(01:05):
managed to write six children's books. Lindsay's latest book, Girls
of the World Doing More than ever before, encourages children
to use their voices, talents and intelligence to help the
world and raise awareness of girls and all the amazing
things that they do. And one of the things I
really love about her latest book is. She says she
(01:26):
was inspired to write it by her son. She wants
to make sure that both girls and boys are on
the receiving end of positive messaging about women and girls
and all of their capabilities. I can't wait to hear
how she managed to write this beautiful book that wrapped
tears to my eyes while also making sure the rest
(01:47):
of us know what's going on in our country. She's
a superhero. Let's get to it, well, Lindsay, I'm just
so thrilled to be talking to you today. I have
(02:07):
like such a Annenberg student journalism crush on brains like yours,
and I really appreciated taking the time.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Thank you for talking with me, Sophie. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Yeah, I mean I have a bajillion questions I want
to ask you, but I actually, rather than jumping into
the things you're working on today, when guests come on
the podcast, I like to ask them to take a
little walk down memory lane with me, because I'm really
curious to know when I sit across from someone as
you know, accomplished as yourself, if from your vantage point today,
(02:42):
if you were to look back at your childhood and
you saw Lindsay at say ten years old, do you
see the through line to your career and life today
or were you a completely different kid.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
That's a great question. I think you know I was.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
He's really curious. I was really competitive. I was really eager.
I've always been kind of a take the horn, the
bull by the horns kind of from kid. Really now,
I always thought early on there were kind of like
three stages of my thought as career wise. Anyway, early on,
(03:26):
I really thought I was going to be a lawyer.
I really wanted to argue cases in court, and that
was definitely what I was going to do. Then at
some point, I guess early in college where my first
year I went to University Virginia.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
My first year you had to declare a major.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
And then I was like, oh, I'm so competitive, that
will it be difficult for me to have a job
where a career where I'm winning and losing all the time,
because I would I felt like I was going to
take the losses too personally, and so I felt like,
maybe that's not going to be good for balance. So
that decided I wanted to become a psychologist. And then
(04:08):
so when I had to declare my major, I majored
in psychology, and while I was at University of Virginia,
I studied abroad in London at University of Westminster my
third year, second semester, and that was the first time
I had fulfilled all of my college prerequisites for my major.
(04:30):
So I was able to take anything that I wanted,
and I took British literature among them, and I like
a lot of writing classes.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
And while I was there.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
And this is the most unique epiphany for me that
I think I've had.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
I was studying abroad.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
For well, I okay, so I was studying at Broad
in London, but in high school I had a Spanish
exchange student.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
I was visiting her while I was.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Studying abroad, and I ended up for some reason in
the apartment by myself and I was watching last LOUTI
see us.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
I was watching the news in Spanish.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
At that point, I should have really understood Spanish really well,
but I kind of. So it was kind of like
Charlie Brown's mom, like what I was hearing like wah wah,
wah wah. But there was just this revelation that washed
over me and I was like, I want to do that,
And they're like I used to give like like twice.
(05:22):
This happened where I was giving a toast at a
wedding and people from the journalism field came up to
me and they were like, you.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Should be a reporter. You have a great voice. You
have such a good delivery and storytelling way about you. Wow.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
But I hadn't really thought about it at that time,
But just in this particular moment, I was like, you know,
I could kind of combine my interest and curiosity about
people and telling their stories. And people had always said, oh,
you have this great voice, you know, presenter voice. Yeah,
And I thought, oh, okay, I could combine those two
as a journalist. And then from that day forward, I
(05:55):
just started taking the necessary steps pursuing journalism. I feel like, now,
it's so interesting. I kind of fell into it, like
I didn't have this, you know. And I was co
anchoring with David Muir recently, and I know from a
child he would you know, cut out cardboard box and
present as a TV in his living room and he
(06:18):
knew early on, and I didn't have that same drive,
you know, for this and passion for this industry early on.
But once it hit me, it was just like, no,
turning back and and ideally like this has been it
could I couldn't have thought of a better industry now
that I'm in it, Like this is ideal for me.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
That's so cool. Well, that's another sort of totality, right,
Like the the aha moment for you was really clarifying.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
It really was I And I guess I'm just that
kind of person too, where I get a mindset and
there is no like, I'm very focused. I love that
and yeah, so it was just very clear, and it
just combined a bunch of things. I love writing, I
love public speaking, I love talking to people about their stories,
(07:08):
and just now it's so ideal. And I never was
going to be a good like office person or cubicle
person who's just sitting in front of a computer all day.
That just wouldn't have fit me very well. So it's
ended up really working out.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
That's very cool. When you first started your career, were
there are folks you really looked up to in the
journalism world or did you have like a mentor in
your particular office.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
You know, it's funny many of my mentors never knew
they were my mentors. So, you know, I once I
decided that I really wanted to get into this. I
really did start paying attention to Barbara Walters and Oprah.
Carol Simpson was always kind of on the TV on
the weekends in our house, and our local news was
(07:57):
always on. And there are certain names of people who
I really paid particular attention to. But I looked up
to them, you know, in the way of how i'd
watch like a Diane Sawyer or Barbara Walter's interview, how
they their style. But I didn't know them, but I
considered them to be mentors. Carol Simpson, now we actually
(08:22):
have a relationship, which I think is so cool because
she used to anchor World News on ABC News on
the weekends and now I anchor on Sunday.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
So she'll text me after the shows and give me
her reviews.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
And it's really really fun because she really was a
special mentor for me, and so to have this full
circle moment with her, to actually be able to pick
her brain about things is just fantastic.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Oh, I love that.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I know what you mean.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
You know.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
I think for me, the impact I experienced watching Oprah
as a kid is really it's what led me to
start a podcast. I thought that someone for an hour
and ask questions like I just want to do that.
I want to ask people about their lives. And I
really think it was her influence for me that as
(09:12):
this sort of particular vertical of media developed, made me go,
oh that that that feels like my version of the
thing I was the most inspired by as a kid.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
I have to imagine she influenced countless young people, right,
and maybe older people too, you know, and she and
it's so interesting when I look at the through line
as you were mentioning before, for people like Barbara Walters,
Oprah Winfrey, Carol Simpson, they all talk about how they
(09:42):
heard so many no's, how it was like what they
wanted to do was so out of the ordinary, impossible,
and how all of them kind of fed off of
that and that, you know. I mean Carol has talked
about and wrote in her book, and so did Barbara
Walters about you know, how they kind of well, Carol
(10:03):
in particular said how she you know, ate bread, eate
nose for breakfast, and that like yueled her and it
was like you think I can't, I'm going.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
To prove you wrong.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
And yeah, watch, I just look at that, right, for
all of them, and they're various, you know, different obstacles
that they had, different hurdles that were unique to them.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
But I find them also inspiring.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
And to your point, I just think as so many
people have been inspired by Oprah Winfrey, no doubt. I mean,
she was in living rooms probably in a way that
that most people were not.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
How do you think, because you know, you talk about
these trailblazers, you see how their stories really connect to
those of us in our generation who you know, whether
it's a hobby side hustle like mine or a literal
incredible journalistic career like yours. You know, we know what
(11:02):
women kick to the doors open for us. And sometimes
I wonder about, you know, being able to occupy these
amazing seats. In a way, it adds some pressure about
the way you've got to perform and the way you've
got to show up. And I wonder very often for
folks like yourself. You know, the news cycle now is
(11:24):
twenty four to seven. You're expected to be everywhere all
the time, You're expected to be well versed on everything
all the time, and you know, you're also really proud
to be here, and are there moments where it also
hits you the toughness of it, you know, the human
(11:45):
side of how emotional some of these stories can be
and how heavy the news can be. How do you
find the way to sort of balance your experience as
a human that's affected by all of this and your
pride and intellect as a journalist who is ready to
go all the time.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
You know, I think that there are kind of two
different answers that I have for that, And one is
it is so nice, like when we were covering the eclipse,
just to talk about something that's refreshing and humanizes us
all and gives us something to be awe struck about
in a positive way where we're not covering you know,
(12:27):
the mayhem and destruction and death and murder, war these
you know, heavy issues. I always try and find a
way to balance, and I'm taking your question in two
different ways, but for me personally, because it is so heavy.
I do think I like in because I get this
(12:48):
a similar question often in that I.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Like in what I do too.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
And maybe this is maybe an er doctor would say
you're totally wrong, but I think I would imagine the
first few times that they came in and treated their
first person with like bullet wounds, or they lost their
first patient, or you know, just saw the trauma in
its most raw pure form that it was probably like, WHOA,
this is heavy, this is a lot, but this is
(13:13):
what I find up for and now let me put
my head down and do the job. And I think
after a while, it's not that you become desensitized to it,
but you start to almost normalize. I guess that this
is the baseline of my job and this is what
I can expect every day, so you're not like blown
(13:34):
away by it, right, but it's still there are still
stories that stick with me and people I remember years later,
and those times where you are really, for me choking
back the tears, you know, of a mom who's you know,
lost their child or you know. I mean, there's so
many different scenarios I can I can bring up that
I really find touching in and a lot of it
(13:57):
for me. I have a son who's now ten, and
when I became a mother, things started hitting differently, you know,
school shootings, just these moments that at one point where
it was like it's about them, and in a way
it I think makes me a better reporter.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
When you realize it's about us. And I started kind of,
you know, feeling that.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
That's really beautiful, and the other direction I would say
with regard to women in particular and doing a job
and realizing there's so much on the line I have
to go back to and this is something that's really nice.
Like I was preparing, we had gotten up to the
day before of doing a presidential debate that I was
going to moderate this year, and it ended up being
(14:40):
canceled because Nikki Hali had decided she wasn't going to
debate Ron DeSantis anymore if Donald Trump wasn't going to
be on the stage, And Carol Simpson texted me simply,
you know, I know, and we then that started a
conversation because there are very few people who would know
in that moment, like what it's like to prepare in
(15:04):
such a way for something that then doesn't happen when
you were feeling a lot of pressure. Because we had
talked before about when she moderated her first presidential debate,
she was the first woman of color to ever do so,
and she talked about how she had women who were
like reaching out to her saying, don't let us down,
(15:24):
and she said, and then she had black people who
were reaching out to her like don't let us down,
and she said in some ways she felt like it
wasn't about like she was like just for me on
a personal level as an individual, I wanted to succeed.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
But now I had a whole race.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
That was on top of me, and I had a
whole gender that was you know, I was carrying this week,
and it can feel like a burden.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
I think of the two bees.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Really, it's like half burden, half blessing, right, because it's
a gift to be able to be the face or
at the forefront of you know whatever, or be the
first in some way. But there's also many times I
think when you're a minority, and that might be by race,
or gender, or religion a number of different ways, or sexuality.
I think sometimes you feel like, gosh, if I feel
(16:14):
they're going to close the door for the next person, right,
And as a black woman, you know, I do feel
that weight still that if I somehow am a disappointment.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
It's not just for Lindsey Davis.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
It's not just for the Davis family, but it is
for you know, perhaps the black community, perhaps for women.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
And so there is a difference.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
It hits a little differently, and I'm always mindful of that,
and that's why it is nice to have, you know,
going back to your original point about the kind of mentor,
it is nice to be able to commiserate and have
a conversation with someone who's been there and who.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Knows, you know.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
And that's why it felt so good just to get
her text when she said, you know, I know because
she did. And there are very few people sometimes who
can relate. And so sorry for the long winded two
direction answer, but it kind of just struck those two
chords with me.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Now, I really love it and I appreciate it. I
think the specificity of experience is something that as I've aged,
I've realized is so important. And you know, I saw
it back in the day when my mom was ill.
And it's like her doctor said, make sure you have
a support group, and she said, I have great friends,
and he said, no, no, no, you need a support
(17:33):
group of other people that are also on chemo. Yeah,
because nobody knows how it makes you feel like somebody
who's also honest. And I've seen that with you know,
friends that are pregnant at the same time with their
first babies, and I've seen it with friends in my
friend group going through divorces, like you need people who
are going through what you're going through. And when you
(17:55):
are often the first or one of one in a
room like you have been, and in so many ways,
you need those women who did their version before you
to help you process those feelings. You know, that's such
a real thing because you should just be able to
show up as lindsay, as a journalist, but you are
showing up as a woman, as a woman of color
(18:17):
like that. There are these added identities because of histories
of oppression that many of us have gone through in
our own ways that change your experience. Right, It's different
for you than it was for Walter Cronkite.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
It just is right, right, right, that's really that's.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
So cool that you have somebody who even knew to
send you that message.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Right, And I can't agree with you more And that
I was thinking when you were talking about with your
mom and going through chemo. When I had my son,
I ended up with preclamsy of the day that I
went into labor, and I had not had a high
blood pressure during the whole pregnancy, but that day it
was an issue. And my blood pressure still wasn't going
going down even after I delivered, and they had to
(19:02):
keep me in the hospital extra time, and I ended
up There was a male coworker I had whose wife
had had a baby maybe a few months before mine,
and she had had preeclampsia, and that was the first
time I had heard of it or knew anybody to
have it. So I reached out to him and I
was just like, I feel like everything that happens to me,
like I'm looking it up and WebMD is not your friend,
(19:24):
you know, because it's like anything that happened, I was like,
oh my gosh, I'm about to die.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Yeah, anything on WebMD leads to cancer.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
It's bad.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Yes, And I have to give so much credit to
his wife, who really was like Lindsay, I felt the
same way, like cause I was saying I really wanted
to get out of the hospital and as Suda, now
I'm home, I feel like I should be back in
the hospital, and I just I don't know, I feel
like I'm about to die and I'm going to stroke out.
And she was like, we did the same thing. I
told Jay, stop the car, turn around, let's go back
to the hospital. But anyway, I was kind of like, Okay,
(19:53):
so it's okay that I feel crazy, It's okay that
I'm feeling, you know, having these thoughts, and she had
that empathy to say, yeah, I was there, and I
just I just so agree with what you're saying. And
many people, you know, I've talked about before having a
preclamcy and then as a result that postpartum anxiety and
(20:14):
people were.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Like, well, why are you sharing it?
Speaker 3 (20:16):
And I was like, because someone else sharing it like
saved me. And so I want other people to again
to try to kind of normalize. And I think that
that's so important, as you pointed out, just in all
facets of our life, to know like you're not the
first person to go through this. You know, somebody else
has felt this way and done this and had this reaction,
(20:40):
and it's it is so reassuring.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah, that's really special. We'll be back in just a minute.
But here's a word from our sponsors. And you know,
I think people can forget with people that are in
positions like you look at you as being like top
of your game, top of the world. Really you know,
(21:04):
you know, probably unaffected and you're like, no, no, I
still need a whole support system, maybe even more because
you're going through these things while also shouldering this career,
this responsibility. But you know, moderating presidential debates, how do
you even prepare for something like that obviously, whether it
you know, gets pulled as an event or not. Like,
(21:27):
what what is that process like for you as a journalist?
Where do you even begin?
Speaker 3 (21:31):
Well, we have a great team, and for fortunately, I
had done it twice before, so I would say that
first time I was doing it, I was just like
all nerves, you know, but but I just preparation was
the only thing that could kind of get me out
of that. And so I all of a sudden on
that day, I mean I had great I had researched
(21:52):
and and I just had like a calm and a
confidence first day that I did it back in twenty nineteen,
so I felt like this now was going to be
my third time, and it just felt like, okay, now
we we we know we so one are the topics
that we really want to cover? How are we going
to divide it up between the other moderators? And then
(22:12):
it's kind of like just having people who will do
some really deep dives on research on let's say we're
talking about abortion or gun control, Like, what is like,
give me every comment, every statement that that person has
ever made about abortion, Tell me everything they've ever said
(22:33):
about gun control. And that way, you know, we can say, well,
you know, five years ago you said this, but now
on the campaign trail you said this.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
How do you square those two thoughts? You know?
Speaker 3 (22:44):
So a lot of it is just kind of really
knowing somebody's stance and maybe how it's shifted over time,
and just really just kind of trying to pin down
someone's belief somebody's you know, point of view.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
When you think about all these interviews that you've you know,
prepped and researched and been so ready for, is there
one it could be presidential or otherwise? Is there one
that stands out for you as being one of the
most memorable, uh moments of your career?
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Again, I have such a hard time just giving you
one answer. I know, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
I feel like it's like asking a parent to pick
their favorite child or something.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
You're like, what, well, well, one thing that I'll say
there there are two series that I one that I
created and one that I brought back revived from Charlie
Gibson and Peter Jennings. So theirs that they had done
years ago was called who Is and it sat they
sat down with all of the presidential candidates and they
(23:43):
wouldn't ask any political questions. So it was really more about, like,
so tell me what it was like being a middle child.
You know, tell me what when you were in college
you aspired to be. You know, like, how did you
know when you were first falling in love with your wife?
You know, it was just like getting to know the
character rather than their politics, because we all knew kind
(24:05):
of for the most part, we know kind of what
people think about guns and abortion and war, whatever it
might be.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
So this was really getting to know the person.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
And so we had a chance to do that this
past election cycle and that was really interesting to me
because I really like to just get to know people,
and so that's an overarching general. And then one that
I had done years ago, the running mates and I
only talked to the spouses. I sat down and did
(24:36):
interviews because this is the person who knows them best,
and you know, you're not just getting like the sound
by the stump speech or whatever.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
You know, you're really like.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
What is he like as a dad or what is
she like as mom, you know, or what you know,
you're just kind of getting that those intimate details about
a person, but to answer in a specific way, and
just because I have a political mind still on this
part reticular moment, one thing I thought was fascinating and
this interview I did was March of twenty twenty with
(25:07):
Hillary Clinton. So it was after she was, you know,
no longer in contention for president. It was all over,
she wasn't gonna run anymore, and she, you know, and
Donald Trump had just become president, and my husband and
I are in the process of running a half marathon
in each state, and right before it just so happened
(25:30):
because I was interviewing her on a Monday, and I
think that Saturday we had run in Little Rock, Arkansas.
Little Rock, Arkansas is where Bill Clinton's library is and
the airport is named after Bill and Hillary Clinton.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
So while we're getting.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Situated and everything, you know, which is can be my
favorite part of the interview is before we start the
official interview and while we're getting miked up and the
lights are getting adjusted, you know, you're just kind of
getting an know the person, just very the introduction. And
so I was telling her, you know, I was just
(26:06):
in Arkansas and saw the library and this and that,
and she was asking, well, what brought you there? I
was telling her about the half marathon and then it
was over, and you know, you always have the handlers
who are pulling somebody away and like, okay, that's it,
no more time. And what I thought was so fascinating
about Hillary Clinton was her handlers were trying to whisker
her away. And then she just sat there and said, so,
(26:27):
where's your next half marathon? And I was saying, you know, oh,
it's it's in Denver, Colorado, and she said, you know,
if you can, you should get there a little early
because the altitude you might have difficult running. And the
fascinating thing about it wasn't the interview with her, It
was her as a human being, because I always it
was kind of so known that she had struggled, at
(26:48):
least from perception anyway, as like she wasn't this like
human person, you know, And I found this really striking.
And this is politics aside. This was not about again
her stance on whatever. It was just like she was
very maternal, she was very interested, she was very engaging.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
She has this great.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Laugh and funny, and I felt like she never was
able to get that across to the American people. So
that was just as far as political interviews, that was
one that came to mind as one that stood out
to me after where I was like, Wow, she's really
such a human and I think that we never many
(27:33):
felt we never got to see that side of her.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
M h, Yeah, that's really special because she is. She's
so kind and funny, and you realize people don't really know, right,
And I think that does speak to the immense pressure
particularly put on women, and especially women with ambition.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Yes, yeah, you know, there's such.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
An incredible amount of judgment. And it makes me curious
about your latest project, which isn't about you know, your
news career. You're writing children's books and you wrote this
beautiful book called Girls of the World, doing more than
ever before. And I find it really special that you
(28:14):
talk about how important it is not only to make
sure girls see themselves as capable, but to show boys
that girls are also capable. And so do you think
that your own journey as a woman in this sort
of space of rarefied air, and you know, having interviewed
women like her who faced you know, gender oppression, Like,
(28:38):
has all of that led to you wanting to write
this book or was it something else that inspired you altogether?
Speaker 3 (28:44):
Yeah, it was really kind of a number of things
that came into play. This is my six children's book.
My son had really, in one way or another, inspired
the first five, and indirectly, I guess I could say
that he inspired this one because I started realizing early on,
because you know, he's only ten now, but he has
(29:06):
very definite ideas of that's for girls, this is for boys.
There is a separation of church and state. There are boxes,
and and that was interesting because that wasn't something that
I felt.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
We were talking about at home.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
I mean, this was even like I remember taking him
to a birthday party when he was maybe four, and
it was a little girl's party and at the end
she gave out party bags that were pink and purple,
and even though there was really cool stuff inside, he
was like, I don't want that bag. Pink and purple,
those are for those are for girls, like and he
just has had and over the years, and I've kind
(29:44):
of tried to push back and challenge him on you know,
where do you think, like why do you think that
that you're never gonna cook.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
You don't have to learn how to cook.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
That that's for girls, that's for your wife to do,
you know, Like huh, But I think that that's so
in society, and boys get affirmation every day and in
a way that girls don't. And just to play off
of that particular word that you use with regard to
Hillary Clinton, ambition, I think that that's like a dirty
word when it's applied to a woman.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
But for a man.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
It's great for a man to be ambitious, you know,
but a woman who has drive and you know, she
can be trued it's like she's too bossy. You know,
it's negative. And so I really it became important to
me to have positive associations with girls from an early
Age's plant these seeds of positivity with let's be bold,
(30:39):
let's be strong, let's be brave, and those are all
words that we tend to hear associated with boys. And
I just felt that my own parents were able to
do a really great job in pouring into me this
belief that I could do whatever I wanted in life.
And somehow I believed them, you know, I just was
(31:00):
There was never a consideration that I couldn't. And I
just feel that there are a lot of parents who
want their kids to have that same thing, and they
may be pouring it into them, or they may not.
You know, perhaps this is for the child who isn't
hearing this anywhere else, isn't getting it anywhere else.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Or it's for the child who this is just going
to be a reinforcement.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
But either way, I just think that it's so necessary,
and it's even like I said, for my own son,
it's important for him to read a book like this.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
I think that people see this book and think.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
It's entirely for girls, and I would say, you know,
it's just like for all of my books.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Leading up to this, this is super inclusive.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
I mean, and we have girls who are all different colors,
all different you know, two who are in wheelchairs, one
who has a prosthetic leg, different religions. It's so important
and this has always been for me to be inclusive
in my books. But I often didn't think that we
are as a society so quick to we want to
(32:05):
digest and understand things by putting them into boxes. There's
not a lot of gray in society, and so like
my first few books, for example, had black and brown characters,
and I think that quite often people thought, oh, well,
these are just four black and brown kids, and it
couldn't be further from the truth because quite often I think,
you know, one for me growing up and for my
(32:27):
own son, we have books with all different colors of characters,
you know, And I think that that's important, especially for
people who live in an area that may not be
so diverse.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
I think that one.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
Easy way to dispel all these isms that we have,
whether it's sexism or racism, is to put.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
A book or a toy, a doll in a child's.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
Hands of somebody who doesn't look like them, so that
it's not unfamiliar. So because quite often we fear what
we don't know. And anyway, it's another very long question.
I'm reading that I'm super long winned because you know
what Soviet like. Rarely am I. I'm always one asking
the questions. I'm a prayer that I'm answering questions. And
now I guess I have all of this pent up
(33:12):
to put out there into the world. But yeah, I
just wanted girls to have that affirmation and not you know,
when you hear like, oh you throw like a girl
like that's a bad thing. But boys will be boys
and that's an okay. That's like anything that they do
is acceptable, and I just felt like it was kind
of time to change that.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
I love that. And now a word from our sponsors
who make this show possible, and I think you know
words as you're saying, like ambitious. I loved that when
(33:51):
you talked about reflecting on your childhood one of the
words you used to describe yourself was competitive. Because a
competitive nature is also something that's really judged in women
and in girls. And I mean, we've seen it even
with the sort of hysteria around some of our greatest athletes,
the Angel Reese and Caitlin Clark narratives out in the world.
(34:14):
I was like, Hello, these women are gladiators. Let them
be these top of class athletes and respect them for it,
you know. And I it was astonishing to me that
college age women had to say we don't have but
we are competing when we're on the court, Like y'all
know that, right. I was like, this is a trip
(34:35):
that they are having to give people a lesson in
women's athletic ability while they're in the midst of march. Men,
it's like, are we really doing this? We're really acting
like these girls aren't competitive out there.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
We never do that with males. I mean, can you
think of the anonymous scenario.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
I can't.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
We're you know, we're nevitting these these two males against
each other in this way, and it seems like it's
a false narrative, you know, when you hear the two
of them talk about.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
It, absolutely, and I think it's important to hear them
speak on it, just like I think it's so important
for you to talk about the fact that you wrote
this book because of what you saw, and that, yes,
the book is for little girls, but it's for little
boys too. It's so important that we begin to see
each other as more whole beings, capable of all sorts
(35:24):
of ambition and feeling and emotion. And I do think
the younger we yet to learn that, the less we
have to unlearn in our adulthood.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Exactly. Yes, I've thought that with regard to again, all
the isms.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
Kids don't start out with these ideas of what's good
and what's better and what's different.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
You know.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
I always think of my own son when he would
go off to summer camp and he's meeting kids for
the first time. He would never come home and say,
tell me somebody's race or religion or viewpoint. It was like,
they love legos too, they love.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Star Wars too.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
Kids often think about what we have that unites us,
rather than as adults. I think we often think about
what we have that separates and makes us different.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
And kids look with better eyes.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
You know, And it's something that I think that that
adults have to try and rethink and get back to
the basics of just that pure way of looking at
the people around us and the world around us.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Yeah, well that means girls of the world is for
all of us too, not just the kiddos.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
In our exactly.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Yes, And I'm always mindful of the parents who are
reading to the kids that there's going to be a
good takeaway message for them as well.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
Indeed, as you look at your year ahead, and in
particular for you as an incredible journalist, I imagine the
election is a big part of it. What feels like
your work in progress for twenty twenty.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
Four, You know, I really need to find more balance.
That is something that I've really been trying to be
extra mindful of this year, in particular because you know,
I'm realizing as we just celebrated my son's tenth birthday
that you know, in theory, like in eight years from now,
(37:16):
he's going to be in college and out of the house,
and so we've actually had more time with him living
with us then you know, remains on the clock for us,
and it's just going so fast that I really want
to be more present for him and for me in turn.
(37:37):
I think quite often I have a hard time saying no,
and that is something I'm trying to, you know, get
better at, just to not cram my life. I tend
to put on this cape and try and be superwoman
and get everything done and fit it all in, and
then everything just ends up being rush rush, rush, and
(37:58):
task task task and cross it all up and and
so that's my my work in progress is getting a
little more breathing room into my life and and primarily
being able to, uh, you know, go for the little
runs that I like that clear my head and and.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Go to the school activities and and really just be
more present.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Mm hmmm, yeah, a little breathing ass. Yeah, I love that.
Thank you so much. I hope we get to do
this again.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
This was fun. I hope that I didn't you know.
Give you too many answers. No, you're perfect, thank you,
thank you for the time.
Hey, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in Progress. Welcome
back to work in Progress, Whips Marties. As you all know,
I get particularly geeked when I get to interview journalists,
(00:22):
and today's guest is an American broadcast journalist that I
respect so much. She anchors the Sunday edition of World
News Tonight, She anchors ABC News Live Prime, and is
constantly traveling for ABC this year on the campaign trail.
Today's guest is Lindsay Davis. She graduated from Worstown Friends
(00:43):
School in New Jersey, earned a bachelor's degree from the
University of Virginia, a master's degree in communication from New
York University, and now travels the country making sure that
we all know what's happening in our world. She's doing
incredible election coverage this year for US, and in the
absolute lack of spare time that she has, she has
(01:05):
managed to write six children's books. Lindsay's latest book, Girls
of the World Doing More than ever before, encourages children
to use their voices, talents and intelligence to help the
world and raise awareness of girls and all the amazing
things that they do. And one of the things I
really love about her latest book is. She says she
(01:26):
was inspired to write it by her son. She wants
to make sure that both girls and boys are on
the receiving end of positive messaging about women and girls
and all of their capabilities. I can't wait to hear
how she managed to write this beautiful book that wrapped
tears to my eyes while also making sure the rest
(01:47):
of us know what's going on in our country. She's
a superhero. Let's get to it, well, Lindsay, I'm just
so thrilled to be talking to you today. I have
(02:07):
like such a Annenberg student journalism crush on brains like yours,
and I really appreciated taking the time.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Thank you for talking with me, Sophie. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Yeah, I mean I have a bajillion questions I want
to ask you, but I actually, rather than jumping into
the things you're working on today, when guests come on
the podcast, I like to ask them to take a
little walk down memory lane with me, because I'm really
curious to know when I sit across from someone as
you know, accomplished as yourself, if from your vantage point today,
(02:42):
if you were to look back at your childhood and
you saw Lindsay at say ten years old, do you
see the through line to your career and life today
or were you a completely different kid.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
That's a great question. I think you know I was.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
He's really curious. I was really competitive. I was really eager.
I've always been kind of a take the horn, the
bull by the horns kind of from kid. Really now,
I always thought early on there were kind of like
three stages of my thought as career wise. Anyway, early on,
(03:26):
I really thought I was going to be a lawyer.
I really wanted to argue cases in court, and that
was definitely what I was going to do. Then at
some point, I guess early in college where my first
year I went to University Virginia.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
My first year you had to declare a major.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
And then I was like, oh, I'm so competitive, that
will it be difficult for me to have a job
where a career where I'm winning and losing all the time,
because I would I felt like I was going to
take the losses too personally, and so I felt like,
maybe that's not going to be good for balance. So
that decided I wanted to become a psychologist. And then
(04:08):
so when I had to declare my major, I majored
in psychology, and while I was at University of Virginia,
I studied abroad in London at University of Westminster my
third year, second semester, and that was the first time
I had fulfilled all of my college prerequisites for my major.
(04:30):
So I was able to take anything that I wanted,
and I took British literature among them, and I like
a lot of writing classes.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
And while I was there.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
And this is the most unique epiphany for me that
I think I've had.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
I was studying abroad.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
For well, I okay, so I was studying at Broad
in London, but in high school I had a Spanish
exchange student.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
I was visiting her while I was.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Studying abroad, and I ended up for some reason in
the apartment by myself and I was watching last LOUTI
see us.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
I was watching the news in Spanish.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
At that point, I should have really understood Spanish really well,
but I kind of. So it was kind of like
Charlie Brown's mom, like what I was hearing like wah wah,
wah wah. But there was just this revelation that washed
over me and I was like, I want to do that,
And they're like I used to give like like twice.
(05:22):
This happened where I was giving a toast at a
wedding and people from the journalism field came up to
me and they were like, you.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Should be a reporter. You have a great voice. You
have such a good delivery and storytelling way about you. Wow.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
But I hadn't really thought about it at that time,
But just in this particular moment, I was like, you know,
I could kind of combine my interest and curiosity about
people and telling their stories. And people had always said, oh,
you have this great voice, you know, presenter voice. Yeah,
And I thought, oh, okay, I could combine those two
as a journalist. And then from that day forward, I
(05:55):
just started taking the necessary steps pursuing journalism. I feel like, now,
it's so interesting. I kind of fell into it, like
I didn't have this, you know. And I was co
anchoring with David Muir recently, and I know from a
child he would you know, cut out cardboard box and
present as a TV in his living room and he
(06:18):
knew early on, and I didn't have that same drive,
you know, for this and passion for this industry early on.
But once it hit me, it was just like, no,
turning back and and ideally like this has been it
could I couldn't have thought of a better industry now
that I'm in it, Like this is ideal for me.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
That's so cool. Well, that's another sort of totality, right,
Like the the aha moment for you was really clarifying.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
It really was I And I guess I'm just that
kind of person too, where I get a mindset and
there is no like, I'm very focused. I love that
and yeah, so it was just very clear, and it
just combined a bunch of things. I love writing, I
love public speaking, I love talking to people about their stories,
(07:08):
and just now it's so ideal. And I never was
going to be a good like office person or cubicle
person who's just sitting in front of a computer all day.
That just wouldn't have fit me very well. So it's
ended up really working out.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
That's very cool. When you first started your career, were
there are folks you really looked up to in the
journalism world or did you have like a mentor in
your particular office.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
You know, it's funny many of my mentors never knew
they were my mentors. So, you know, I once I
decided that I really wanted to get into this. I
really did start paying attention to Barbara Walters and Oprah.
Carol Simpson was always kind of on the TV on
the weekends in our house, and our local news was
(07:57):
always on. And there are certain names of people who
I really paid particular attention to. But I looked up
to them, you know, in the way of how i'd
watch like a Diane Sawyer or Barbara Walter's interview, how
they their style. But I didn't know them, but I
considered them to be mentors. Carol Simpson, now we actually
(08:22):
have a relationship, which I think is so cool because
she used to anchor World News on ABC News on
the weekends and now I anchor on Sunday.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
So she'll text me after the shows and give me
her reviews.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
And it's really really fun because she really was a
special mentor for me, and so to have this full
circle moment with her, to actually be able to pick
her brain about things is just fantastic.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Oh, I love that.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I know what you mean.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
You know.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
I think for me, the impact I experienced watching Oprah
as a kid is really it's what led me to
start a podcast. I thought that someone for an hour
and ask questions like I just want to do that.
I want to ask people about their lives. And I
really think it was her influence for me that as
(09:12):
this sort of particular vertical of media developed, made me go,
oh that that that feels like my version of the
thing I was the most inspired by as a kid.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
I have to imagine she influenced countless young people, right,
and maybe older people too, you know, and she and
it's so interesting when I look at the through line
as you were mentioning before, for people like Barbara Walters,
Oprah Winfrey, Carol Simpson, they all talk about how they
(09:42):
heard so many no's, how it was like what they
wanted to do was so out of the ordinary, impossible,
and how all of them kind of fed off of
that and that, you know. I mean Carol has talked
about and wrote in her book, and so did Barbara
Walters about you know, how they kind of well, Carol
(10:03):
in particular said how she you know, ate bread, eate
nose for breakfast, and that like yueled her and it
was like you think I can't, I'm going.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
To prove you wrong.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
And yeah, watch, I just look at that, right, for
all of them, and they're various, you know, different obstacles
that they had, different hurdles that were unique to them.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
But I find them also inspiring.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
And to your point, I just think as so many
people have been inspired by Oprah Winfrey, no doubt. I mean,
she was in living rooms probably in a way that
that most people were not.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
How do you think, because you know, you talk about
these trailblazers, you see how their stories really connect to
those of us in our generation who you know, whether
it's a hobby side hustle like mine or a literal
incredible journalistic career like yours. You know, we know what
(11:02):
women kick to the doors open for us. And sometimes
I wonder about, you know, being able to occupy these
amazing seats. In a way, it adds some pressure about
the way you've got to perform and the way you've
got to show up. And I wonder very often for
folks like yourself. You know, the news cycle now is
(11:24):
twenty four to seven. You're expected to be everywhere all
the time, You're expected to be well versed on everything
all the time, and you know, you're also really proud
to be here, and are there moments where it also
hits you the toughness of it, you know, the human
(11:45):
side of how emotional some of these stories can be
and how heavy the news can be. How do you
find the way to sort of balance your experience as
a human that's affected by all of this and your
pride and intellect as a journalist who is ready to
go all the time.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
You know, I think that there are kind of two
different answers that I have for that, And one is
it is so nice, like when we were covering the eclipse,
just to talk about something that's refreshing and humanizes us
all and gives us something to be awe struck about
in a positive way where we're not covering you know,
(12:27):
the mayhem and destruction and death and murder, war these
you know, heavy issues. I always try and find a
way to balance, and I'm taking your question in two
different ways, but for me personally, because it is so heavy.
I do think I like in because I get this
(12:48):
a similar question often in that I.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Like in what I do too.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
And maybe this is maybe an er doctor would say
you're totally wrong, but I think I would imagine the
first few times that they came in and treated their
first person with like bullet wounds, or they lost their
first patient, or you know, just saw the trauma in
its most raw pure form that it was probably like, WHOA,
this is heavy, this is a lot, but this is
(13:13):
what I find up for and now let me put
my head down and do the job. And I think
after a while, it's not that you become desensitized to it,
but you start to almost normalize. I guess that this
is the baseline of my job and this is what
I can expect every day, so you're not like blown
(13:34):
away by it, right, but it's still there are still
stories that stick with me and people I remember years later,
and those times where you are really, for me choking
back the tears, you know, of a mom who's you know,
lost their child or you know. I mean, there's so
many different scenarios I can I can bring up that
I really find touching in and a lot of it
(13:57):
for me. I have a son who's now ten, and
when I became a mother, things started hitting differently, you know,
school shootings, just these moments that at one point where
it was like it's about them, and in a way
it I think makes me a better reporter.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
When you realize it's about us. And I started kind of,
you know, feeling that.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
That's really beautiful, and the other direction I would say
with regard to women in particular and doing a job
and realizing there's so much on the line I have
to go back to and this is something that's really nice.
Like I was preparing, we had gotten up to the
day before of doing a presidential debate that I was
going to moderate this year, and it ended up being
(14:40):
canceled because Nikki Hali had decided she wasn't going to
debate Ron DeSantis anymore if Donald Trump wasn't going to
be on the stage, And Carol Simpson texted me simply,
you know, I know, and we then that started a
conversation because there are very few people who would know
in that moment, like what it's like to prepare in
(15:04):
such a way for something that then doesn't happen when
you were feeling a lot of pressure. Because we had
talked before about when she moderated her first presidential debate,
she was the first woman of color to ever do so,
and she talked about how she had women who were
like reaching out to her saying, don't let us down,
(15:24):
and she said, and then she had black people who
were reaching out to her like don't let us down,
and she said in some ways she felt like it
wasn't about like she was like just for me on
a personal level as an individual, I wanted to succeed.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
But now I had a whole race.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
That was on top of me, and I had a
whole gender that was you know, I was carrying this week,
and it can feel like a burden.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
I think of the two bees.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Really, it's like half burden, half blessing, right, because it's
a gift to be able to be the face or
at the forefront of you know whatever, or be the
first in some way. But there's also many times I
think when you're a minority, and that might be by race,
or gender, or religion a number of different ways, or sexuality.
I think sometimes you feel like, gosh, if I feel
(16:14):
they're going to close the door for the next person, right,
And as a black woman, you know, I do feel
that weight still that if I somehow am a disappointment.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
It's not just for Lindsey Davis.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
It's not just for the Davis family, but it is
for you know, perhaps the black community, perhaps for women.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
And so there is a difference.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
It hits a little differently, and I'm always mindful of that,
and that's why it is nice to have, you know,
going back to your original point about the kind of mentor,
it is nice to be able to commiserate and have
a conversation with someone who's been there and who.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Knows, you know.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
And that's why it felt so good just to get
her text when she said, you know, I know because
she did. And there are very few people sometimes who
can relate. And so sorry for the long winded two
direction answer, but it kind of just struck those two
chords with me.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Now, I really love it and I appreciate it. I
think the specificity of experience is something that as I've aged,
I've realized is so important. And you know, I saw
it back in the day when my mom was ill.
And it's like her doctor said, make sure you have
a support group, and she said, I have great friends,
and he said, no, no, no, you need a support
(17:33):
group of other people that are also on chemo. Yeah,
because nobody knows how it makes you feel like somebody
who's also honest. And I've seen that with you know,
friends that are pregnant at the same time with their
first babies, and I've seen it with friends in my
friend group going through divorces, like you need people who
are going through what you're going through. And when you
(17:55):
are often the first or one of one in a
room like you have been, and in so many ways,
you need those women who did their version before you
to help you process those feelings. You know, that's such
a real thing because you should just be able to
show up as lindsay, as a journalist, but you are
showing up as a woman, as a woman of color
(18:17):
like that. There are these added identities because of histories
of oppression that many of us have gone through in
our own ways that change your experience. Right, It's different
for you than it was for Walter Cronkite.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
It just is right, right, right, that's really that's.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
So cool that you have somebody who even knew to
send you that message.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Right, And I can't agree with you more And that
I was thinking when you were talking about with your
mom and going through chemo. When I had my son,
I ended up with preclamsy of the day that I
went into labor, and I had not had a high
blood pressure during the whole pregnancy, but that day it
was an issue. And my blood pressure still wasn't going
going down even after I delivered, and they had to
(19:02):
keep me in the hospital extra time, and I ended
up There was a male coworker I had whose wife
had had a baby maybe a few months before mine,
and she had had preeclampsia, and that was the first
time I had heard of it or knew anybody to
have it. So I reached out to him and I
was just like, I feel like everything that happens to me,
like I'm looking it up and WebMD is not your friend,
(19:24):
you know, because it's like anything that happened, I was like,
oh my gosh, I'm about to die.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Yeah, anything on WebMD leads to cancer.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
It's bad.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Yes, And I have to give so much credit to
his wife, who really was like Lindsay, I felt the
same way, like cause I was saying I really wanted
to get out of the hospital and as Suda, now
I'm home, I feel like I should be back in
the hospital, and I just I don't know, I feel
like I'm about to die and I'm going to stroke out.
And she was like, we did the same thing. I
told Jay, stop the car, turn around, let's go back
to the hospital. But anyway, I was kind of like, Okay,
(19:53):
so it's okay that I feel crazy, It's okay that
I'm feeling, you know, having these thoughts, and she had
that empathy to say, yeah, I was there, and I
just I just so agree with what you're saying. And
many people, you know, I've talked about before having a
preclamcy and then as a result that postpartum anxiety and
(20:14):
people were.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Like, well, why are you sharing it?
Speaker 3 (20:16):
And I was like, because someone else sharing it like
saved me. And so I want other people to again
to try to kind of normalize. And I think that
that's so important, as you pointed out, just in all
facets of our life, to know like you're not the
first person to go through this. You know, somebody else
has felt this way and done this and had this reaction,
(20:40):
and it's it is so reassuring.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah, that's really special. We'll be back in just a minute.
But here's a word from our sponsors. And you know,
I think people can forget with people that are in
positions like you look at you as being like top
of your game, top of the world. Really you know,
(21:04):
you know, probably unaffected and you're like, no, no, I
still need a whole support system, maybe even more because
you're going through these things while also shouldering this career,
this responsibility. But you know, moderating presidential debates, how do
you even prepare for something like that obviously, whether it
you know, gets pulled as an event or not. Like,
(21:27):
what what is that process like for you as a journalist?
Where do you even begin?
Speaker 3 (21:31):
Well, we have a great team, and for fortunately, I
had done it twice before, so I would say that
first time I was doing it, I was just like
all nerves, you know, but but I just preparation was
the only thing that could kind of get me out
of that. And so I all of a sudden on
that day, I mean I had great I had researched
(21:52):
and and I just had like a calm and a
confidence first day that I did it back in twenty nineteen,
so I felt like this now was going to be
my third time, and it just felt like, okay, now
we we we know we so one are the topics
that we really want to cover? How are we going
to divide it up between the other moderators? And then
(22:12):
it's kind of like just having people who will do
some really deep dives on research on let's say we're
talking about abortion or gun control, Like, what is like,
give me every comment, every statement that that person has
ever made about abortion, Tell me everything they've ever said
(22:33):
about gun control. And that way, you know, we can say, well,
you know, five years ago you said this, but now
on the campaign trail you said this.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
How do you square those two thoughts? You know?
Speaker 3 (22:44):
So a lot of it is just kind of really
knowing somebody's stance and maybe how it's shifted over time,
and just really just kind of trying to pin down
someone's belief somebody's you know, point of view.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
When you think about all these interviews that you've you know,
prepped and researched and been so ready for, is there
one it could be presidential or otherwise? Is there one
that stands out for you as being one of the
most memorable, uh moments of your career?
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Again, I have such a hard time just giving you
one answer. I know, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
I feel like it's like asking a parent to pick
their favorite child or something.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
You're like, what, well, well, one thing that I'll say
there there are two series that I one that I
created and one that I brought back revived from Charlie
Gibson and Peter Jennings. So theirs that they had done
years ago was called who Is and it sat they
sat down with all of the presidential candidates and they
(23:43):
wouldn't ask any political questions. So it was really more about, like,
so tell me what it was like being a middle child.
You know, tell me what when you were in college
you aspired to be. You know, like, how did you
know when you were first falling in love with your wife?
You know, it was just like getting to know the
character rather than their politics, because we all knew kind
(24:05):
of for the most part, we know kind of what
people think about guns and abortion and war, whatever it
might be.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
So this was really getting to know the person.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
And so we had a chance to do that this
past election cycle and that was really interesting to me
because I really like to just get to know people,
and so that's an overarching general. And then one that
I had done years ago, the running mates and I
only talked to the spouses. I sat down and did
(24:36):
interviews because this is the person who knows them best,
and you know, you're not just getting like the sound
by the stump speech or whatever.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
You know, you're really like.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
What is he like as a dad or what is
she like as mom, you know, or what you know,
you're just kind of getting that those intimate details about
a person, but to answer in a specific way, and
just because I have a political mind still on this
part reticular moment, one thing I thought was fascinating and
this interview I did was March of twenty twenty with
(25:07):
Hillary Clinton. So it was after she was, you know,
no longer in contention for president. It was all over,
she wasn't gonna run anymore, and she, you know, and
Donald Trump had just become president, and my husband and
I are in the process of running a half marathon
in each state, and right before it just so happened
(25:30):
because I was interviewing her on a Monday, and I
think that Saturday we had run in Little Rock, Arkansas.
Little Rock, Arkansas is where Bill Clinton's library is and
the airport is named after Bill and Hillary Clinton.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
So while we're getting.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Situated and everything, you know, which is can be my
favorite part of the interview is before we start the
official interview and while we're getting miked up and the
lights are getting adjusted, you know, you're just kind of
getting an know the person, just very the introduction. And
so I was telling her, you know, I was just
(26:06):
in Arkansas and saw the library and this and that,
and she was asking, well, what brought you there? I
was telling her about the half marathon and then it
was over, and you know, you always have the handlers
who are pulling somebody away and like, okay, that's it,
no more time. And what I thought was so fascinating
about Hillary Clinton was her handlers were trying to whisker
her away. And then she just sat there and said, so,
(26:27):
where's your next half marathon? And I was saying, you know, oh,
it's it's in Denver, Colorado, and she said, you know,
if you can, you should get there a little early
because the altitude you might have difficult running. And the
fascinating thing about it wasn't the interview with her, It
was her as a human being, because I always it
was kind of so known that she had struggled, at
(26:48):
least from perception anyway, as like she wasn't this like
human person, you know, And I found this really striking.
And this is politics aside. This was not about again
her stance on whatever. It was just like she was
very maternal, she was very interested, she was very engaging.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
She has this great.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Laugh and funny, and I felt like she never was
able to get that across to the American people. So
that was just as far as political interviews, that was
one that came to mind as one that stood out
to me after where I was like, Wow, she's really
such a human and I think that we never many
(27:33):
felt we never got to see that side of her.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
M h, Yeah, that's really special because she is. She's
so kind and funny, and you realize people don't really know, right,
And I think that does speak to the immense pressure
particularly put on women, and especially women with ambition.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Yes, yeah, you know, there's such.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
An incredible amount of judgment. And it makes me curious
about your latest project, which isn't about you know, your
news career. You're writing children's books and you wrote this
beautiful book called Girls of the World, doing more than
ever before. And I find it really special that you
(28:14):
talk about how important it is not only to make
sure girls see themselves as capable, but to show boys
that girls are also capable. And so do you think
that your own journey as a woman in this sort
of space of rarefied air, and you know, having interviewed
women like her who faced you know, gender oppression, Like,
(28:38):
has all of that led to you wanting to write
this book or was it something else that inspired you altogether?
Speaker 3 (28:44):
Yeah, it was really kind of a number of things
that came into play. This is my six children's book.
My son had really, in one way or another, inspired
the first five, and indirectly, I guess I could say
that he inspired this one because I started realizing early on,
because you know, he's only ten now, but he has
(29:06):
very definite ideas of that's for girls, this is for boys.
There is a separation of church and state. There are boxes,
and and that was interesting because that wasn't something that
I felt.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
We were talking about at home.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
I mean, this was even like I remember taking him
to a birthday party when he was maybe four, and
it was a little girl's party and at the end
she gave out party bags that were pink and purple,
and even though there was really cool stuff inside, he
was like, I don't want that bag. Pink and purple,
those are for those are for girls, like and he
just has had and over the years, and I've kind
(29:44):
of tried to push back and challenge him on you know,
where do you think, like why do you think that
that you're never gonna cook.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
You don't have to learn how to cook.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
That that's for girls, that's for your wife to do,
you know, Like huh, But I think that that's so
in society, and boys get affirmation every day and in
a way that girls don't. And just to play off
of that particular word that you use with regard to
Hillary Clinton, ambition, I think that that's like a dirty
word when it's applied to a woman.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
But for a man.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
It's great for a man to be ambitious, you know,
but a woman who has drive and you know, she
can be trued it's like she's too bossy. You know,
it's negative. And so I really it became important to
me to have positive associations with girls from an early
Age's plant these seeds of positivity with let's be bold,
(30:39):
let's be strong, let's be brave, and those are all
words that we tend to hear associated with boys. And
I just felt that my own parents were able to
do a really great job in pouring into me this
belief that I could do whatever I wanted in life.
And somehow I believed them, you know, I just was
(31:00):
There was never a consideration that I couldn't. And I
just feel that there are a lot of parents who
want their kids to have that same thing, and they
may be pouring it into them, or they may not.
You know, perhaps this is for the child who isn't
hearing this anywhere else, isn't getting it anywhere else.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Or it's for the child who this is just going
to be a reinforcement.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
But either way, I just think that it's so necessary,
and it's even like I said, for my own son,
it's important for him to read a book like this.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
I think that people see this book and think.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
It's entirely for girls, and I would say, you know,
it's just like for all of my books.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Leading up to this, this is super inclusive.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
I mean, and we have girls who are all different colors,
all different you know, two who are in wheelchairs, one
who has a prosthetic leg, different religions. It's so important
and this has always been for me to be inclusive
in my books. But I often didn't think that we
are as a society so quick to we want to
(32:05):
digest and understand things by putting them into boxes. There's
not a lot of gray in society, and so like
my first few books, for example, had black and brown characters,
and I think that quite often people thought, oh, well,
these are just four black and brown kids, and it
couldn't be further from the truth because quite often I think,
you know, one for me growing up and for my
(32:27):
own son, we have books with all different colors of characters,
you know, And I think that that's important, especially for
people who live in an area that may not be
so diverse.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
I think that one.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
Easy way to dispel all these isms that we have,
whether it's sexism or racism, is to put.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
A book or a toy, a doll in a child's.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
Hands of somebody who doesn't look like them, so that
it's not unfamiliar. So because quite often we fear what
we don't know. And anyway, it's another very long question.
I'm reading that I'm super long winned because you know
what Soviet like. Rarely am I. I'm always one asking
the questions. I'm a prayer that I'm answering questions. And
now I guess I have all of this pent up
(33:12):
to put out there into the world. But yeah, I
just wanted girls to have that affirmation and not you know,
when you hear like, oh you throw like a girl
like that's a bad thing. But boys will be boys
and that's an okay. That's like anything that they do
is acceptable, and I just felt like it was kind
of time to change that.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
I love that. And now a word from our sponsors
who make this show possible, and I think you know
words as you're saying, like ambitious. I loved that when
(33:51):
you talked about reflecting on your childhood one of the
words you used to describe yourself was competitive. Because a
competitive nature is also something that's really judged in women
and in girls. And I mean, we've seen it even
with the sort of hysteria around some of our greatest athletes,
the Angel Reese and Caitlin Clark narratives out in the world.
(34:14):
I was like, Hello, these women are gladiators. Let them
be these top of class athletes and respect them for it,
you know. And I it was astonishing to me that
college age women had to say we don't have but
we are competing when we're on the court, Like y'all
know that, right. I was like, this is a trip
(34:35):
that they are having to give people a lesson in
women's athletic ability while they're in the midst of march. Men,
it's like, are we really doing this? We're really acting
like these girls aren't competitive out there.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
We never do that with males. I mean, can you
think of the anonymous scenario.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
I can't.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
We're you know, we're nevitting these these two males against
each other in this way, and it seems like it's
a false narrative, you know, when you hear the two
of them talk about.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
It, absolutely, and I think it's important to hear them
speak on it, just like I think it's so important
for you to talk about the fact that you wrote
this book because of what you saw, and that, yes,
the book is for little girls, but it's for little
boys too. It's so important that we begin to see
each other as more whole beings, capable of all sorts
(35:24):
of ambition and feeling and emotion. And I do think
the younger we yet to learn that, the less we
have to unlearn in our adulthood.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Exactly. Yes, I've thought that with regard to again, all
the isms.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
Kids don't start out with these ideas of what's good
and what's better and what's different.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
You know.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
I always think of my own son when he would
go off to summer camp and he's meeting kids for
the first time. He would never come home and say,
tell me somebody's race or religion or viewpoint. It was like,
they love legos too, they love.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Star Wars too.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
Kids often think about what we have that unites us,
rather than as adults. I think we often think about
what we have that separates and makes us different.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
And kids look with better eyes.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
You know, And it's something that I think that that
adults have to try and rethink and get back to
the basics of just that pure way of looking at
the people around us and the world around us.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Yeah, well that means girls of the world is for
all of us too, not just the kiddos.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
In our exactly.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Yes, And I'm always mindful of the parents who are
reading to the kids that there's going to be a
good takeaway message for them as well.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
Indeed, as you look at your year ahead, and in
particular for you as an incredible journalist, I imagine the
election is a big part of it. What feels like
your work in progress for twenty twenty.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
Four, You know, I really need to find more balance.
That is something that I've really been trying to be
extra mindful of this year, in particular because you know,
I'm realizing as we just celebrated my son's tenth birthday
that you know, in theory, like in eight years from now,
(37:16):
he's going to be in college and out of the house,
and so we've actually had more time with him living
with us then you know, remains on the clock for us,
and it's just going so fast that I really want
to be more present for him and for me in turn.
(37:37):
I think quite often I have a hard time saying no,
and that is something I'm trying to, you know, get
better at, just to not cram my life. I tend
to put on this cape and try and be superwoman
and get everything done and fit it all in, and
then everything just ends up being rush rush, rush, and
(37:58):
task task task and cross it all up and and
so that's my my work in progress is getting a
little more breathing room into my life and and primarily
being able to, uh, you know, go for the little
runs that I like that clear my head and and.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Go to the school activities and and really just be
more present.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Mm hmmm, yeah, a little breathing ass. Yeah, I love that.
Thank you so much. I hope we get to do
this again.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
This was fun. I hope that I didn't you know.
Give you too many answers. No, you're perfect, thank you,
thank you for the time.
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