March 7, 2024 • 49 mins
Clean energy should be a no-brainer, yet it feels stuck in political drama and doubt!
U.S. Secretary of Energy Jennifer M. Granholm joins Sophia to help clarify the confusion on clean energy, including why it's going to bring millions of high-paying jobs, the tax incentives and credits available, and the President's goals of getting America to 100 percent clean electricity by 2035 and net zero carbon emissions in less than thirty years!
Plus, the former governor of Michigan shares her political journey, revealing that she initially thought her husband would run for office instead of her! She reveals what happened to change her career path.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello
Whipsmarti's today's guest is someone I am so honored to
have on the podcast. Secretary Jennifer Granholm is with us today.
(00:24):
She is an incredible leader and politician. She serves as
the sixteenth United States Secretary of Energy. She is a
member of the Democratic Party and previously served as the
Attorney General of Michigan. Big Love for Detroit as always.
Secretary Grandholm was a member of the presidential transition team
(00:45):
back for President Barack Obama before he assumed office in
two thousand and nine, and after leaving public office, she
took a position at UC Berkeley. Authored a book called
a Governor's Story, The Fight for Jobs in America's Future.
With her husband, Daniel mulher. She became the host of
the War Room with Jennifer Granholm in twenty seventeen. Was
(01:05):
a CNN political contributor, and after President elect Joe Biden
announced his intention to nominate Grandholme to head the United
States Department of Energy in twenty twenty, she was confirmed
by the US Senate in twenty twenty one. This woman
is so incredibly accomplished, so unbelievably smart, and she is
going to walk us through some of the incredible things
(01:27):
that our president is doing for America in terms of energy,
getting us to a green energy future, and all of
the incredible innovation that is taking place along the way.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
I cannot wait for you to hear from her. Let's
get to it.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
I'm just so happy to see you today, Secretary grand Home.
It's a wild thing to join you on zoom and
think about how long we've known each other now, and
as you know, I'm just your biggest fan, and I
really appreciate you for taking the time today.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Oh my gosh. Well, that is such a nice thing
for you to say, and such a nice thing for
us to be able to have a conversation that hopefully
opens up some windows to the folks who follow you
and gets them excited about you know, the planet and
climate and our clean enerview future and the president.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Yes, all of that, Yes, I mean, and you have
been so hard at work in this world. I mean,
my gosh, I was going to say in the state
and then the country. You know, there's a million words
bouncing around in my head because you really have focused
on you know, climate and energy and democracy and you know,
(02:49):
ways to make the country a better place. But if
we rewind, you know, back to before the beginning of
your political career, you know, before you were out trying
to make sure that we have you know, great energy
and great jobs in the future. When you were just
a little kid, were you into the idea of public service.
(03:16):
Did you know you wanted to hold you know, office
someday or did you have a totally different idea?
Speaker 3 (03:24):
And for your listeners, I was governor of Michigan, so
that's why you asked this question. Yes, and elected as
attorney general too. But I did not at all think
that I was going to be running for office. But
I did feel like you know, and my parents same thing.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
They are.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
They felt their immigrants. I'm an immigrant from Canada, and
they felt so my dad in particular, felt so lucky
to be in this country and they came to try
to make their way and they felt like, you go
to this country, you've got to give back and you've
got to participate, and you know, you have a duty
(04:04):
right And so I didn't know what form that was
going to take. That was definitely in my head, is that,
you know somehow, And it also just became so consuming
for me to be able to follow politics and to
imagine that I could help somebody get elected or I
could help a cause. So I was young. It was
really my parents who gave me this notion that you're here,
(04:25):
you should be grateful and you should act beyond self.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
M I love that that is. That is something that
I think my parents really instilled in me as well.
And part of me is wondering talking to you if
it's because you know, we've got the Canadian portion of
my Canadians.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
They're so but they I mean, who knows. You can't
generalize about country. This is true with so many people
here too. But I feel grateful to have had that
infusion of knowing that we are here to put, you know,
to leave this camp sites cleaner than we found it.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
I love that well.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
I think there's something really powerful.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
You know.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
My dad came down with a lot of his family
from Canada, and my mom's family came over from Italy.
But I think wherever you come from, when you have
that history of immigration in your family, that the passion
for the pursuit of the American dream is big.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Yeah, it's so real, It is so real. It's just
such a sense of you know, of gratitude to be
in this great nation where you know you can be,
you know, where leaders are not born of kings, but
they are born of just common people who decided they, too,
are going to make a better situation. You know. For me,
(05:49):
I didn't see myself as putting myself out front like that.
I was, you know, I married this great guy, he's
from Michigan, and Michigan after law school, and I thought
he was going to run for office. He kind of
thought he was for office too, and you know, we
but we worked in school politics, and we worked in uh,
(06:10):
you know, politics at the county level, et cetera, at
the state level. But when I was working behind the scenes,
and then you know, I had been I was, I
had been a federal prosecutor. I had worked at uh,
you know, in courts, and the Democratic Party of my
(06:30):
case came to me and said, do you want to
run for Will you run for attorney General? And at
that point I was like what me way? And I
had just I had two little kids and my husband
I talked about it. We drove to Chicago from Detroit
and on the drive, you know, he was like, come on,
(06:52):
I got the kids.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
This is you know, the door only opens once you
gotta do what you gotta do it, And honestly, I
would never have done it if I didn't have such
a great partner, such a great, incrediblyless partner.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
So all of that getting said, I feel fortunate to
have had the journey I've had, and certainly feel fortunate
to be where I am today to have an impact
with our team here on one of the biggest existential
problems that we face.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Well for our listeners who don't know, can you explain
your work and some of your primary initiatives as the
Secretary of Energy.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Yeah, So the President has a couple of big, hairy,
audacious goals with respect we loved thus energy. I love
them too. And so the first one is to get
to one hundred percent clean electricity meanings zero carbon emitting
electricity by twenty thirty five. And the second is to
get to net zero, meaning we want to make sure
(07:50):
that we are not emitting carbon more carbon certainly into
the atmosphere by twenty fifty and that is consistent. That
last goal is consistent with with what all of these
countries who have signed onto the Paris Accords to all
these nations who also want to get to net zero
by twenty fifty to heal our planet.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
It is.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
It's a big, hairy, audicious goal for everyone because we
are still emitting so much carbon into the atmosphere, and
at the same time, we are trying to ad deploy, deploy, deploy,
as we say here, as much clean electricity as we
possibly can, so get all those utility scale solar farms
(08:31):
out there. Those wind turbines were really interested in the
heat beneath our feet, you know, geothermal which is clean electricity.
All of the kinds of technologies. I hope we can
talk about a couple of them, because I think, you know,
for your listeners who want to know sort of the future,
a lot of it is very interesting. But that's our
big goal. In so I have an office of over
(08:54):
one hundred thousand people in the Department of Energy. There
are seventeen national laboratory who are doing the research into
what those next generation technologies are and how to bring
down the cost of them, and what are the materials
we're going to be using. We are all over the country,
these seventeen labs. They're huge. We employ it. It's really
a science agency that I run. But we also have
(09:16):
now this big mandate from the President's invest in America
Agenda to deploy clean energy, and so both of those
we do research, we do development, we do early stage
demonstration and deployment, and we do big deployment. So all
of that is happening under the Department of Energy under
(09:36):
President Biden.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Wow, that's really exciting.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
It's super exciting.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
And so energy and clean energy feels like it should
really be a no brainer. And yet, like so many
things in our world, seems to me and many others,
to have become so weirdly politicized as though it's a
(10:01):
partisan issue rather than, you know, just a requirement for
survival on this planet. How do you wade through that
muck and how how do you kind of help us
make sense of things? Because you know, from the outside,
I see everything you guys are doing at the Department
of Energy. I know that President Biden is incredibly committed
(10:24):
to a green energy future and wants to be a
good climate president. And you see people saying that, you know,
we're drilling so much and leases are getting approved, and
it all feels to a lay person a little confusing.
So is part of it just the fact that there's
(10:45):
a lot of oil lobbyists who make a lot of
money and don't want the transition to happen as fast.
Is it that we have to be pragmatic and understand
that the transition is going to take I don't know,
I'm making up numbers, but five years, eight years?
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Is it?
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Is it?
Speaker 1 (10:59):
A little bit of bow? It's like, how do you
clue some of us who are really passionate about the
issue but a little confused as to where we stand.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
How do you make sense of it for us?
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Well, I appreciate the question because it's a thoughtful question.
How do you get to the goal of net zero? Now?
Note that net zero by twenty fifty, so we have time.
We today could not just completely stop using fossil fuels.
You wouldn't mean for anybody.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
We don't have the infrastructure.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
We don't have the infrastructure. Okay, people don't have the vehicles.
You know, we have about almost ten percent of our
vehicles are electric, and so they would be able to
operate their vehicles. But ninety percent of Americans would not
be able to so, and that's you know, we have
we have a responsibility to make sure that energy is working.
That's not just for transportation, but just flipping on the switch.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Right.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
So a lot of our power right now comes from
natural gas, some comes from goal. You know, a larger
and larger percentage is coming from renewables, and we're trying
to accelerate that, but we're not at a point where
we can be one hundred percent today. So it's got
to take time for us to build out the infrastructure
and the generation to get to big goal. And that's
(12:17):
why you've got to continue to produce fossil fuel energy
while you accelerate the clean So you have to have
enough energy and clean to be able to fuld a transition.
But we're unfortunately just not there yet. And I will
say there's one other element that people may not be
as cognizant of, which is that we have a role.
(12:39):
We have a place in the world that is pretty
unique because we are such a big energy producer, both
on fossil fuels, oil and gas. And when Putin invaded Ukraine,
for example, Russia had a huge amount of oil going
on the market at that point, and when they invaded,
(13:02):
everybody rightfully said, no, we're not going to buy any
Russian oil. That took millions of barrels off the market,
and that's why you remember a year and a half
ago we saw a huge spike in prices because that's
why I was taken off the market. And so the
President said, well, we're going to contribute to keep prices
down for real people where people are most affected by this,
(13:24):
and he's really focused on how you bring down prices
for people at the same time as we want to
accelerate this move, and we are accelerating this move toward
clean So that's sort of the it's a managed transition,
I'll say, to manage it as we accelerate, right.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Well, that I think is a really helpful clarification, especially
when you know, listen, I wish we could snap our
fingers and be in a you know, completely green utopia tomorrow,
but it does. The reality is that it takes time,
and it takes building infrastructure, and it also takes the
pragmatism to be patient. You know, we were so used
(14:04):
to refreshing our screens on our phones. We want answers now,
now now. But when you talk about really shifting energy systems,
political systems, those things take generational commitments and I think
it's really it's helpful to remind, I know myself, and
i'd imagine our friends listening at home, that these are
(14:25):
also matters of national security, these are also matters of
geopolitical stabilization, and so you have to do what is
available while trying to bring about a better future as
quickly as possible.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
That's exactly right, I will say, though you know, patience
is not in our lexicon.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
I love that about your administration.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Though we well, we really feel this sense of urgency
about it. We really want to accelerate, and we're trying
to figure out what are all the blockages that are
there need to be removed in order to really see
this accelerate. So, for example, you know, we want to
see a huge amount of proliferation of solar, right every
state has different requirements for that. Every state is different permitting.
(15:13):
Some states don't want to see a proliferation of solar,
Some states don't want to see a proliferation of wind,
and so there's a lot of local anxiety about that
and often blocks and so you know, you have to
almost do everything everywhere, all at once, block tackle, play,
offense and defense on both local policies as well as
(15:35):
federal policies. I will say though, honestly, the tax credits
that were embedded in the in the Inflation Reduction Act,
which is one of the three big laws that the
President got passed to have this invest in America agenda,
which will really really is accelerating employment of clean those
tax credits do an awful lot of the work themselves.
(15:58):
So let me just give you an example. Say you
want to develop a solar project that a community can use,
and if you hire using prevailing wage, high wages, if
you have apprenticeship programs, you get a thirty percent tax
credit to be able to build that out. That's a
(16:19):
tax credit, that's a tax deduction, that's money back right
off of a If you use American made solar panels,
that's another ten percent, so now it's forty percent. If
you locate that project in adjacent or in a disadvantaged community,
that's another ten percent. So now we're talking about ay
percent tax credit off of that solar project. So those
(16:42):
kinds of incentives that are embedded now in the law
are doing a lot of work to get both the
private sector as well as communities really interested. But it's
also generated a lot of angst among those who are
really you know, who don't like to change and who
really like the status quote. But changes happen in folks
(17:02):
not just because solars coming online, but because we are
all using so much more energy with electrification of vehicles
and AI, these data centers, cryptocurrency. There's just a huge
energy suck out there, and we have got to deploy
energy at a rapid rapid speed. And that's a lot
of what keeps me up at night.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
And now a word from our sponsors who make this
show possible. You know, it's interesting to me because when
you talk about the way that things are shifting, of course,
there's folks who want the status quota remain. There's plenty
(17:44):
of folks who make a lot of money harming the
planet and who know that by the time we have
to reap what we sew, they'll be dead and they
don't really care, which is morbid but true. And then
here you guys are talking about building out these generational
programs that will certainly outlive many of us and create
a better world for the people coming after us. And
(18:07):
at the center of that you touched on this is
the creation of really good paying, clean energy jobs, the
kinds of jobs and to your point, projects that could
transition entire communities into better health. Can you tell folks
at home a little bit about what that means, because
(18:29):
I think sometimes people hear clean energy jobs and they
go like, yeah, okay, but what are the jobs? What
are the options?
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Oh my gosh, I love to say all kinds of
jobs for all kinds of people. So you know, if
you are interested in advanced manufacturing and you want to
help build out next generation soul or sells, or next
generation wind turbines, or next generation reconductoring material for the grid,
if you want to design any of these systems, if
(18:58):
you're interested in an enhanced geothermal if you're interested in
tidal power, offshore wind, if you're interested in energy efficiency
and the materials that support the buildings around you so
that you use less energy, if you're interested in batteries
for electric vehicles or for storing renewable energy, if you're
(19:18):
interested in the vehicles themselves. There are just so millions
of jobs that will be available in these future facing
industries that are good jobs. And here again, because the
tax credits incentivize the payment of prevailing wage and good
paying jobs, we're seeing wages rise I mean, these tax credits,
(19:40):
they really are working. We've got just in my field.
I mean, you know, they're they're incentivizing other kinds of
you know, they're incentivizing chip fabrication facilities, et cetera. Are
but just in the space of clean energy. They there
have been over five hundred factories now since the passage
(20:01):
of these laws that are coming to the US, expanding
in the US, being built in that would not have
been here but for these incentives, and creating so many
jobs across America in pockets all over the country. And
a lot of times people worry, you know, well, how
will communities that don't necessarily support clean energy or maybe
(20:25):
that have a leg in the fossil fuel world feel
about these new kind of jobs. And that's a really
important question because we can't leave people feeling in this
transition that they're being left behind or that they're less than.
But here's the kicker is that in this new energy world,
(20:47):
the jobs, there's so many jobs that are analogous to
the jobs that people are already doing. So for example,
you know, there's oil and gas industry that drill offshore
in the Gulf of Mexis. They know how to get
on an oil rig and drill down. Well, why not
have those offshore platforms be one of the things that
(21:11):
might be useful for offshore wind. If you do an
oil rig on land, you know how the subs, you know,
the subsurface, you could be in a place to help
pull up that geothermal heat. There's a lot analogies in this,
and so it's exciting. I mean, we we I have
the privilege of working for the most pro union president
(21:35):
that I think the country's ever seen, and the unions
and the amount of union jobs that have been created
both in constructing these facilities as well as working in
them is inspiring. To my mind.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
It's really exciting, and I think it's so important. You know,
it's human nature to worry that change might leave you behind,
but to know that there are are real there is
thought leadership around how anyone who works in a dirty
energy job could transition into a clean energy.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Job and.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Not have to shift all that much of their life.
That's that's important, you know, it's.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
One hundred important. And I you know, I mean, I
think about this, and it's not just oil and gas,
it's coal as well. And perhaps coal is even further
ahead in that there are a lot more coal mines
that have shut down this transition. And there's this in
Weird in West Virginia. They had a big steel factory
(22:42):
that was that shut down, and they have a number
of old mines as well in West Virginia. And this
agenda incentivizes the location of facilities and clean energy on
the places that produced the fossil energy of the past.
(23:04):
And so we like to say that the communities that
have powered our nation for the past one hundred years
should be communities that power our nation for the next
hundred years, but with clean energy exactly.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
And that was always again from the outside looking in.
You know, people will say, because I like to volunteer
and be involved in the political process, well how would
you do it? And I'm like, you know, anywhere there
was a coal mine is where I'd build the next
solar plant.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
You know.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
That's that's the goal, is to help people transition, to
give people safer versions of the jobs they have today,
better versions, better pay. You know, That's that's the idea
I think behind advancement. And you know, it's so cool
to see how these rescue plans are working. You know,
(23:53):
the whole world was upended in twenty twenty. And I
just read an article today, forgive me, I can't remember
if it was in the Washington Post or The Atlantic
that was talking about how when you look at global
inflation and you see these bills that President Biden passed
and what they did for the infusion in the economy,
how they're already paying for themselves. And how in Europe,
(24:15):
for example, they invested less and their inflation is still
twice as high. And what's happening here in terms of
you know, jobs, job creation, economic bolstering, Like we are
making this really incredibly strong economic recovery because we've invested
in our own country and in our own people. And
(24:38):
now to know that he's you know, not to do
with energy, but now he's going after the price gouging.
I'm just like, get them, Joe.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Let's go.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
He's obsessed with crisis. I'll just say, yeah, Joe from Scranton,
Amtrak Joe. He really focuses on how, you know, what
people are feeling out there. But do you point about
the economy. I mean, he under since he's been elected,
have been fourteen point eight million jobs created. That is
more jobs any president in any term in the history
(25:08):
of the United States. Inflation has gone from nine percent
to now three percent, and they're still working on getting
it lower. You know, wages are up, the number of
small businesses that have started again record amounts, five point
five million new business starts. Never had that many before.
(25:29):
The amount of people unemployed, it's under four percent now.
That is the longest period of time under four percent
in fifty years. That all of the indicators might to
just jump on what you were pointed to are extremely positive.
And when you compare us to our global neighbors and allies,
(25:52):
we have the most GDP growth of any of the
advanced nations. We are doing better than any of them
because go figure, policy works.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Policy works these people.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Yeah, yeah, it really does. And so we just got
to get to a point where people feel it. And
and you know, we may not be there yet because
the steel isn't in the ground in all these places yet.
And you know, but I'm telling you, uh, with the numbers,
any president would die to have these kind of economic
(26:29):
indicators much better than anywhere any time before.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
It's really it's quite incredible, and it is you know,
it's not lost on me that for some reason, Uh,
it doesn't seem to get covered in the press as
well as it should. Uh they it's so frustrating to
to sort of watch that that folks go, oh, well,
(26:54):
things are going pretty well on our home soil here.
We we don't love that. It doesn't give us, as
you know, as much clickbait as we want. So they
try to, you know, drum up some local controversy. It
feels important to be frank about what would be at
risk from an energy perspective for us if a Republican
(27:19):
gets elected this year.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Well, I think it is important to look at what
Congress has done and what the House has passed. What
you know, some of these think tanks are proposing if
there is a shift in administrations. You know, I think
that's important for people to take a look at. As
(27:42):
we speak, you and I I'm hatched, so I can't
get into politics pure power per se. But I think
people can do homework like you have been doing and
see the importance of moving forward an agenda for the
nation and for certainly for the climates. Yeah, you know,
(28:04):
it is the agenda that the president has. It is
the most robust climate agenda, the most aggressive, the most
forward leaning that we have ever seen in our lifetimes.
It is the most as al Gore repeatedly says, it
is the most significant in the world. When I talk
to my counterparts in other countries, because every country has
(28:28):
a Minister of Energy and we all meet regularly and talk.
But they're all so envious of what the United States
has done. And you know, some of them have been
a little mad because we're attracting a lot of investment
and jobs. But I keep saying to them, there is
so much need out there, you guys should.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
Go do it too.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
There is so much need for everyone to be installing
energy efficiency and clean energy in our countries. That don't
let us hold you back.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Yes, I love that.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Obviously, it can be taxing to work in politics, particularly
because when you hold a position like you do, you
have to be very careful about, you know, following the
rules and not saying the wrong thing. Can you say
a little bit about what we might expect to hear
from President Biden at the State of the Union. Is
(29:21):
that is that allowed?
Speaker 3 (29:23):
That's allowed? I mean when I diagram hatched for those
of you with the Hatch Act requires those of us
who are in these positions to not be involved at
all in partisan politics. So yes, we have to be
careful about that, but that doesn't mean I can't trumpet
what the president is doing is doing because that is super,
(29:44):
super important. So yeah, I mean he's he's going to
focus a lot on some of the things that we've
talked about in terms of cost to your point about
cracking down on the increasing costs, junk fees and all
of that. That's you know, he's gonna he's going to
talk about that. He's gonna, uh, he's going to present
(30:07):
I think he's going to lay out the historic achievements
right that he has delivered on and then his vision
for the future. He that the fact that he has
gotten more done in the first three years than most
presidents have accomplished in two terms. He's going to talk about,
you know, implementing this agenda from infrastructure and the Chips Act,
(30:28):
that's the Act for for the for for chips, for computers,
et cetera, and science to lowering drug prices again, lowering costs,
get rid of getting rid of junk fees. He's going
to talk about whose side he's on and the work
ahead for the future to make life better for for
every American so you know, giving people breathing room in
(30:51):
terms of lower lowering costs, lowering healthcare premiums. UH taken
on the drug companies to lower the cost of prescription drugs,
making the corporations and the wealthy pay their fair share
in taxes, putting the middle class first, saving our democracy,
protecting women's reproductive health, the rights and the freedoms that
(31:14):
are at stake in this very election nighting the country
his unity. He's got a unity agenda like privacy and
when don't you say unity, meaning that people on both
sides should care about ensuring privacy online, big tech, you know,
curbing fentanyl that's not partisan. Helping veterans is not partisan.
(31:37):
Ending cancer is not partisan. So we're gonna get as
much done as we can as soon as we can.
We're gonna put the pedal to the medal this year,
and so much more to do on a second term.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
And now a word from our sponsors, it's a lot.
I mean these to your point, these are very big,
audacious goals, and I think something that I have been
really impressed by over the last three years is the
(32:13):
capabilities of this administration to take on so many issues simultaneously.
You know, the President seems to have done a very
incredible job appointing folks such as yourself to run these
enormous departments and really run with these directives to make
things better and to advance us in terms of safety, technology,
(32:36):
the economy, people's rights, you know. And I know you
can't say it, but I can say it in the
face of relentless partisan attacks that are frankly, as a citizen,
exhausting to watch. I know you can't say anything again,
but I can't imagine how it feels on the inside
for you all to be battling this every day. But
(32:57):
I just really want to say thank you, because the
dedication must I mean, it must require an unbelievable amount
of fortitude. But we see you and we appreciate you. Guys.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
That is so so nice. I can say that, you know,
what fuels all of us is the work. And we
love our boss and we're completely committed, and we love
the fact that we're making impact in people's lives. And
there's nothing more. I mean, you know, we don't get
paid the big salaries or anything like that, but we
(33:33):
get psychic wealth yea, in serving and I.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Hope, you know, for people that's so cool.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
I hope folks think about it too for themselves. You
know what this is working in public service, something that
might intrigue you. You know, we've got a whole climate
core for example, we're recruiting for We want people to
be part of the change, and that can mean obviously
activism on the outside, but could also mean working on
(34:01):
the inside to implement an agenda. And I really encourage
people to consider that as well.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Yeah, what personally for you, what keeps you motivated?
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (34:14):
For sure, it is this, this agenda and an amazing
team of people that I work with who are all
equally fervently committed to healing our planet, having this impact
in the world. And you know, there's something about feeling
(34:35):
like metrics where you achieve a metric and you get
to move and celebrate how much how many more gigawatts
of clean energy are on the grid and this month
or this year, how much CO two reduction did we see?
You know, I mean things are happening out there that
we get to demarket and that is fuel again. But
(34:57):
I will say, you know, there's a lot of there's
a lot of emotion, emotional attachment to you know, for example,
we work in Puerto Rico. The President has charged the
Department of Energy to lead rebuilding the Puerto Rican grid,
which has been decimated by hurricanes and thousands of people
(35:18):
have died in Hurricane Maria, et cetera. Just really horrible
situation there. But rebuilding the grid to get to one
hundred percent clean electricity and so being able to bring
solar panels to homes in Puerto Rico is so gratifying.
Was just there recently and the first the Congress gave
(35:43):
us a billion dollars to be able to put on
rooftop solar. Won't get everybody, but it will get the
most vulnerable, the ones, the people who are medically who
need medical devices that are dependent on electricity. And for
Puerto Ricans, you know, clean energy, it's nice, but really
it's resist Lilliancy. That is super important that you want
the ability to access energy even when the grid goes down,
(36:05):
and they have so much they can do that. So
putting solar and batteries on homes is super important. So
we went to this one house and the grandmother was
there in a wheelchair. Her daughter has cancer and her
grandson has cerebral palsy and he is connected to a
breathing machine. Tiny home of poor family. When they signed
(36:29):
up to get solar and storage, they cried, They hugged us.
They said, you just don't know what this means to us.
It means life to us. And those kind of moments,
that kind of feeling like, you know, really people are
being impacted by the work you do. There's nothing more
(36:51):
priceless than that.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
That's so incredible.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
And you know when you talk about your own family,
you know, your husband and encouraging you to go for
it in the beginning of your career and BDAG and
you know the fact that your kids were little.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
What what is it like for you now? I mean,
how how.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Do you juggle you know, your your life as an
individual and and with your family and then this big
public service job is it? Do you always just feel
like you're spinning a lot of plates or do you
guys have a great like divide and conquer sort of mentality.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
Oh, we definitely are spending a lot of plates. My
kids are grown. I am children now and I live
with one of my children and her husband and my
two grandchildrens. I see them when I'm able to be
home before they go to bed. I see them on
the weekends if I am there for a weekend, but
I feel connected to them very closely. So that takes
(37:56):
a lot of uh, you know, that brings a lot
of joy and a lot of balance. But that and
you know, my husband lives with us too, so we
are all together, and it's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
That's so neat. That's so neat.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
So for those of us who are excited, who want
to be more involved maybe who are looking for more information,
are there news sources you'd point us to? Are their
articles we should read? Who should we be following on
social media so we can stay on top of what
the administration's doing?
Speaker 2 (38:35):
What do we need to know?
Speaker 3 (38:36):
Yeah? I mean, first of all, you know, we encourage
you to go to our fantastic website at energy dot gov.
We also on that website we have you know, links
to what we're doing obviously, and follow certainly me on
Instagram and on on x I guess now and on LinkedIn.
(38:58):
But I think that it's really important for people to
to seek out podcasts that they're interested and I listen
to a lot of nerdy energy podcasts, and for people
who are energy nerds, there's a lot of really great
ones out there, the Energy Gang, the Columbia Energy Exchange.
You know, there's a lot of really fun and interesting
(39:19):
podcasts if you're if you're interested in that. But I
think it's really super important for people to you know,
to get active, to get active and ensure that your
voice is heard, make sure that you are aware of
(39:40):
so many of these issues. I mean, a lot of
times energy can be you know, there's a lot of
science involved, obviously, and for folks who may not be
so inclined that there's you know a lot of different
types of energy, whether you're trying to at nuclear energy,
fission or fusion and all of that, but it is
it's whole fascinating to be able to read about and
(40:03):
be part of and you don't have to be a scientist.
So in addition to reading about it, I think people
should take a look and see whether this is something
they might be interested in pursuing, either either inside or outside,
because it is really you know, community organizing is a
huge part of energy. Designing programs is a huge part
(40:26):
of energy. Inner governmental work is a huge part of
energy in addition to the research and the development of it.
So both on learning about it as well as on
getting involved yourself from external and potentially raising your hand
to work on the inside. There's nothing more important from
(40:50):
my perspective long term as to what's happening to us.
I mean, you read a story this morning that we're
not going to have ice in the oceans anymore, and
it's we've got to get I mean, our hair should
be on fire because our planet is on fire, and
we need people who are seriously committed to making change.
(41:10):
We don't want people inside the department who are committed
to the status quo or who are just here to
pick up a paycheck. We got to have people who
are really determined. And if folks who are listening are
in that camp, we'd encourage you to apply the encourage
you to come join us. That's so exciting, grateful for
people like you who are you know, raising the flag
(41:31):
and using your platform to be able to get the
word out. I just can't thank you enough for that.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Well thanks, I mean, my goodness, it's such a cool
thing for me, you know, as an adult now to
basically have an excuse to be my nerdiest self and
ask fascinating people fascinating questions. When you think about the
year ahead. I imagine all of these big, audacious goals
(41:59):
feel like quite a work in progress. But you guys
of the administration really have a game plan. What feels
like a work in progress for you, so.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
Much is a work in progress. First thing that comes
to mind when you say that is one of the
things that the invest in America Agenda assigned to the
Department of Energy and to the States is getting rebates
in the hands of people who want to buy energy
(42:33):
efficient appliances like heat pumps or induction stoves. And so
we are working with the states because it's all going
to go through state programs, but we want the states
to get that money out and to have their programs
designed so that people can access these rebates, you know,
(42:54):
in their income dependent in most cases. But if you
want to get an induction stove, you might be able
to get hundreds, if not even more off of an
induction stove for your home, and an induction stove for
people who are unaware, it's the most efficient kind of stove,
(43:14):
and we are strongly encouraging if people are interested for
them to use them. A lot of people who use
induction stoves won't ever go back because they love them. Similarly,
I want to make sure people are aware of the
tax credits for electric vehicles. For example, if you want
to buy a used electric vehicle, you can get a
four thousand dollars tax credit, but that not just to
(43:35):
pick up on your taxes, but at the dealership off
the top of the vehicle if you buy. If you
want to buy a new electric vehicle, there's a lot
of there's a wide range of kinds of electric vehicles.
Obviously some super expensive, but there's some that are more affordable.
And if you lease an electric vehicle, you can still
get a seven five hundred dollars credit that you can
(43:57):
take down the amount that you'll have to find it
or if you want to buy it outright. So I
want people to know those those are the catches for
the purchase of an electric vehicle. The vehicle has to
be made in the United States. If they lease an
electric vehicle just has to be an electric vehicle doesn't
have to be made in the United States. And if
they buy used when it doesn't have to be made
(44:18):
in the United States. But I want people to know
what they can access. Similarly, for families that are really
income constrained, that they can pick up the phone and
call to get their home weatherized. So you could have
somebody come in for free and install installation in their
home in the attic, energy efficient windows, energy efficient doors,
(44:42):
replace your light bulbs with lights. Get thirty percent off
of your energy bill every month by just installing fit
energy efficient technologies in your home, and that's for free,
and you can call your local community action agency to
see whether you qualify. So part of our work to
(45:03):
do is getting the word out about these opportunities that
are available for people as we move through this agenda.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
That's so cool, Thank you.
Speaker 3 (45:16):
Yeah, I'd say we've still got a lot of work
to do in a lot of things as well, including
getting the price down for some of these advanced technologies
that we are working on. So if I can just
say a word about that. Yeah, you know, we have
launched you know how there used to be a moonshot,
(45:37):
We've launched a series of earth shots on how we
want to bring down the cost of technologies so that
they can be deployed more readily. So it's a little
bit longer serving. So we're looking at how technology advances
can bring down costs. So, for example, one of the
most promising future technologies is clean hydrid, which is a
(46:01):
form of energy storage and a form of clean energy,
and we want to reduce the cost of that so
that it's affordable across the board. And we've got all
these hydrogen hubs across America that we've just launched to
be able to do that. Another technology is offshore wind,
but on floating platforms, so that the wind the platform
(46:24):
can move and turn to wherever the wind is best
situated and they don't have to be and especially for
places like California where it's very deep and very steep.
It's one of the most promising kinds of technologies that
we're looking at. So there's just all sorts of really
interesting next generation technologies. How to have a net zero home,
(46:47):
how to have a home that is not producing any
CO two and not using much energy except for I
want that energy, I know, right, yeah, materials that you
would be using for that. So there's a whole series
of earth shots that we have taken to bring down
the price and to make sure that we are doing
(47:07):
all we can to deploy clean energy today and in
the future.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
That's so cool.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
I can't wait to keep in touch about what our
options are with our homes, because I'm ready to I'm
ready to be a pilot house.
Speaker 3 (47:19):
Let's go, Oh do it? Do it a net zero
or maybe even a CO two negative.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
I would love it. Sign me up.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
I was just at in southern California, actually at a
community that is a net zero community where they're using
for exit. They have solar, they have battery storage to
save the solar energy so that you can use it
at night. They have what is known as a virtual
power plant where you can take your electric vehicle, you
(47:51):
can charge it at home, and the electric vehicle actually
provides power to the home itself, the battery and the
electric vehicle. So it's two way charging, meaning that it
takes a charge from the grid when the when you
don't need it, it gives you power back or the
or the power back when it's needed. I mean, those
kinds of innovations are all coming down the pike, and
(48:12):
it's very exciting.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
It's really really cool.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
It's a really nice reminder that there are possibilities we
may not have even imagined yet that can solve the
problems that we're currently living with. And it's really heartening
to be reminded of the potential and to know that
all of this is underway. So thank you for your dedication.
(48:40):
Thank you for being so ferociously committed to this. We
need you and we're grateful for you.
Speaker 3 (48:49):
Well, I appreciate the chance to be on to talk
with you, and I certainly appreciate your activism and your
advocacy and your strength and your voice.
Speaker 2 (49:00):
Thank you. It always just makes me so happy to
see you well.
Speaker 3 (49:04):
Thanks so much for having me on. It makes me
super happy to see you too.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (49:09):
You have a great rest of your day, and like
I said, you let us know anything you need support
on We're here.
Speaker 3 (49:14):
Thank you so much, appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
Okay, thank you,
Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello
Whipsmarti's today's guest is someone I am so honored to
have on the podcast. Secretary Jennifer Granholm is with us today.
(00:24):
She is an incredible leader and politician. She serves as
the sixteenth United States Secretary of Energy. She is a
member of the Democratic Party and previously served as the
Attorney General of Michigan. Big Love for Detroit as always.
Secretary Grandholm was a member of the presidential transition team
(00:45):
back for President Barack Obama before he assumed office in
two thousand and nine, and after leaving public office, she
took a position at UC Berkeley. Authored a book called
a Governor's Story, The Fight for Jobs in America's Future.
With her husband, Daniel mulher. She became the host of
the War Room with Jennifer Granholm in twenty seventeen. Was
(01:05):
a CNN political contributor, and after President elect Joe Biden
announced his intention to nominate Grandholme to head the United
States Department of Energy in twenty twenty, she was confirmed
by the US Senate in twenty twenty one. This woman
is so incredibly accomplished, so unbelievably smart, and she is
going to walk us through some of the incredible things
(01:27):
that our president is doing for America in terms of energy,
getting us to a green energy future, and all of
the incredible innovation that is taking place along the way.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
I cannot wait for you to hear from her. Let's
get to it.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
I'm just so happy to see you today, Secretary grand Home.
It's a wild thing to join you on zoom and
think about how long we've known each other now, and
as you know, I'm just your biggest fan, and I
really appreciate you for taking the time today.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Oh my gosh. Well, that is such a nice thing
for you to say, and such a nice thing for
us to be able to have a conversation that hopefully
opens up some windows to the folks who follow you
and gets them excited about you know, the planet and
climate and our clean enerview future and the president.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Yes, all of that, Yes, I mean, and you have
been so hard at work in this world. I mean,
my gosh, I was going to say in the state
and then the country. You know, there's a million words
bouncing around in my head because you really have focused
on you know, climate and energy and democracy and you know,
(02:49):
ways to make the country a better place. But if
we rewind, you know, back to before the beginning of
your political career, you know, before you were out trying
to make sure that we have you know, great energy
and great jobs in the future. When you were just
a little kid, were you into the idea of public service.
(03:16):
Did you know you wanted to hold you know, office
someday or did you have a totally different idea?
Speaker 3 (03:24):
And for your listeners, I was governor of Michigan, so
that's why you asked this question. Yes, and elected as
attorney general too. But I did not at all think
that I was going to be running for office. But
I did feel like you know, and my parents same thing.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
They are.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
They felt their immigrants. I'm an immigrant from Canada, and
they felt so my dad in particular, felt so lucky
to be in this country and they came to try
to make their way and they felt like, you go
to this country, you've got to give back and you've
got to participate, and you know, you have a duty
(04:04):
right And so I didn't know what form that was
going to take. That was definitely in my head, is that,
you know somehow, And it also just became so consuming
for me to be able to follow politics and to
imagine that I could help somebody get elected or I
could help a cause. So I was young. It was
really my parents who gave me this notion that you're here,
(04:25):
you should be grateful and you should act beyond self.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
M I love that that is. That is something that
I think my parents really instilled in me as well.
And part of me is wondering talking to you if
it's because you know, we've got the Canadian portion of
my Canadians.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
They're so but they I mean, who knows. You can't
generalize about country. This is true with so many people
here too. But I feel grateful to have had that
infusion of knowing that we are here to put, you know,
to leave this camp sites cleaner than we found it.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
I love that well.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
I think there's something really powerful.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
You know.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
My dad came down with a lot of his family
from Canada, and my mom's family came over from Italy.
But I think wherever you come from, when you have
that history of immigration in your family, that the passion
for the pursuit of the American dream is big.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Yeah, it's so real, It is so real. It's just
such a sense of you know, of gratitude to be
in this great nation where you know you can be,
you know, where leaders are not born of kings, but
they are born of just common people who decided they, too,
are going to make a better situation. You know. For me,
(05:49):
I didn't see myself as putting myself out front like that.
I was, you know, I married this great guy, he's
from Michigan, and Michigan after law school, and I thought
he was going to run for office. He kind of
thought he was for office too, and you know, we
but we worked in school politics, and we worked in uh,
(06:10):
you know, politics at the county level, et cetera, at
the state level. But when I was working behind the scenes,
and then you know, I had been I was, I
had been a federal prosecutor. I had worked at uh,
you know, in courts, and the Democratic Party of my
(06:30):
case came to me and said, do you want to
run for Will you run for attorney General? And at
that point I was like what me way? And I
had just I had two little kids and my husband
I talked about it. We drove to Chicago from Detroit
and on the drive, you know, he was like, come on,
(06:52):
I got the kids.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
This is you know, the door only opens once you
gotta do what you gotta do it, And honestly, I
would never have done it if I didn't have such
a great partner, such a great, incrediblyless partner.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
So all of that getting said, I feel fortunate to
have had the journey I've had, and certainly feel fortunate
to be where I am today to have an impact
with our team here on one of the biggest existential
problems that we face.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Well for our listeners who don't know, can you explain
your work and some of your primary initiatives as the
Secretary of Energy.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Yeah, So the President has a couple of big, hairy,
audacious goals with respect we loved thus energy. I love
them too. And so the first one is to get
to one hundred percent clean electricity meanings zero carbon emitting
electricity by twenty thirty five. And the second is to
get to net zero, meaning we want to make sure
(07:50):
that we are not emitting carbon more carbon certainly into
the atmosphere by twenty fifty and that is consistent. That
last goal is consistent with with what all of these
countries who have signed onto the Paris Accords to all
these nations who also want to get to net zero
by twenty fifty to heal our planet.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
It is.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
It's a big, hairy, audicious goal for everyone because we
are still emitting so much carbon into the atmosphere, and
at the same time, we are trying to ad deploy, deploy, deploy,
as we say here, as much clean electricity as we
possibly can, so get all those utility scale solar farms
(08:31):
out there. Those wind turbines were really interested in the
heat beneath our feet, you know, geothermal which is clean electricity.
All of the kinds of technologies. I hope we can
talk about a couple of them, because I think, you know,
for your listeners who want to know sort of the future,
a lot of it is very interesting. But that's our
big goal. In so I have an office of over
(08:54):
one hundred thousand people in the Department of Energy. There
are seventeen national laboratory who are doing the research into
what those next generation technologies are and how to bring
down the cost of them, and what are the materials
we're going to be using. We are all over the country,
these seventeen labs. They're huge. We employ it. It's really
a science agency that I run. But we also have
(09:16):
now this big mandate from the President's invest in America
Agenda to deploy clean energy, and so both of those
we do research, we do development, we do early stage
demonstration and deployment, and we do big deployment. So all
of that is happening under the Department of Energy under
(09:36):
President Biden.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Wow, that's really exciting.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
It's super exciting.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
And so energy and clean energy feels like it should
really be a no brainer. And yet, like so many
things in our world, seems to me and many others,
to have become so weirdly politicized as though it's a
(10:01):
partisan issue rather than, you know, just a requirement for
survival on this planet. How do you wade through that
muck and how how do you kind of help us
make sense of things? Because you know, from the outside,
I see everything you guys are doing at the Department
of Energy. I know that President Biden is incredibly committed
(10:24):
to a green energy future and wants to be a
good climate president. And you see people saying that, you know,
we're drilling so much and leases are getting approved, and
it all feels to a lay person a little confusing.
So is part of it just the fact that there's
(10:45):
a lot of oil lobbyists who make a lot of
money and don't want the transition to happen as fast.
Is it that we have to be pragmatic and understand
that the transition is going to take I don't know,
I'm making up numbers, but five years, eight years?
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Is it?
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Is it?
Speaker 1 (10:59):
A little bit of bow? It's like, how do you
clue some of us who are really passionate about the
issue but a little confused as to where we stand.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
How do you make sense of it for us?
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Well, I appreciate the question because it's a thoughtful question.
How do you get to the goal of net zero? Now?
Note that net zero by twenty fifty, so we have time.
We today could not just completely stop using fossil fuels.
You wouldn't mean for anybody.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
We don't have the infrastructure.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
We don't have the infrastructure. Okay, people don't have the vehicles.
You know, we have about almost ten percent of our
vehicles are electric, and so they would be able to
operate their vehicles. But ninety percent of Americans would not
be able to so, and that's you know, we have
we have a responsibility to make sure that energy is working.
That's not just for transportation, but just flipping on the switch.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Right.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
So a lot of our power right now comes from
natural gas, some comes from goal. You know, a larger
and larger percentage is coming from renewables, and we're trying
to accelerate that, but we're not at a point where
we can be one hundred percent today. So it's got
to take time for us to build out the infrastructure
and the generation to get to big goal. And that's
(12:17):
why you've got to continue to produce fossil fuel energy
while you accelerate the clean So you have to have
enough energy and clean to be able to fuld a transition.
But we're unfortunately just not there yet. And I will
say there's one other element that people may not be
as cognizant of, which is that we have a role.
(12:39):
We have a place in the world that is pretty
unique because we are such a big energy producer, both
on fossil fuels, oil and gas. And when Putin invaded Ukraine,
for example, Russia had a huge amount of oil going
on the market at that point, and when they invaded,
(13:02):
everybody rightfully said, no, we're not going to buy any
Russian oil. That took millions of barrels off the market,
and that's why you remember a year and a half
ago we saw a huge spike in prices because that's
why I was taken off the market. And so the
President said, well, we're going to contribute to keep prices
down for real people where people are most affected by this,
(13:24):
and he's really focused on how you bring down prices
for people at the same time as we want to
accelerate this move, and we are accelerating this move toward
clean So that's sort of the it's a managed transition,
I'll say, to manage it as we accelerate, right.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Well, that I think is a really helpful clarification, especially
when you know, listen, I wish we could snap our
fingers and be in a you know, completely green utopia tomorrow,
but it does. The reality is that it takes time,
and it takes building infrastructure, and it also takes the
pragmatism to be patient. You know, we were so used
(14:04):
to refreshing our screens on our phones. We want answers now,
now now. But when you talk about really shifting energy systems,
political systems, those things take generational commitments and I think
it's really it's helpful to remind, I know myself, and
i'd imagine our friends listening at home, that these are
(14:25):
also matters of national security, these are also matters of
geopolitical stabilization, and so you have to do what is
available while trying to bring about a better future as
quickly as possible.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
That's exactly right, I will say, though you know, patience
is not in our lexicon.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
I love that about your administration.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Though we well, we really feel this sense of urgency
about it. We really want to accelerate, and we're trying
to figure out what are all the blockages that are
there need to be removed in order to really see
this accelerate. So, for example, you know, we want to
see a huge amount of proliferation of solar, right every
state has different requirements for that. Every state is different permitting.
(15:13):
Some states don't want to see a proliferation of solar,
Some states don't want to see a proliferation of wind,
and so there's a lot of local anxiety about that
and often blocks and so you know, you have to
almost do everything everywhere, all at once, block tackle, play,
offense and defense on both local policies as well as
(15:35):
federal policies. I will say though, honestly, the tax credits
that were embedded in the in the Inflation Reduction Act,
which is one of the three big laws that the
President got passed to have this invest in America agenda,
which will really really is accelerating employment of clean those
tax credits do an awful lot of the work themselves.
(15:58):
So let me just give you an example. Say you
want to develop a solar project that a community can use,
and if you hire using prevailing wage, high wages, if
you have apprenticeship programs, you get a thirty percent tax
credit to be able to build that out. That's a
(16:19):
tax credit, that's a tax deduction, that's money back right
off of a If you use American made solar panels,
that's another ten percent, so now it's forty percent. If
you locate that project in adjacent or in a disadvantaged community,
that's another ten percent. So now we're talking about ay
percent tax credit off of that solar project. So those
(16:42):
kinds of incentives that are embedded now in the law
are doing a lot of work to get both the
private sector as well as communities really interested. But it's
also generated a lot of angst among those who are
really you know, who don't like to change and who
really like the status quote. But changes happen in folks
(17:02):
not just because solars coming online, but because we are
all using so much more energy with electrification of vehicles
and AI, these data centers, cryptocurrency. There's just a huge
energy suck out there, and we have got to deploy
energy at a rapid rapid speed. And that's a lot
of what keeps me up at night.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
And now a word from our sponsors who make this
show possible. You know, it's interesting to me because when
you talk about the way that things are shifting, of course,
there's folks who want the status quota remain. There's plenty
(17:44):
of folks who make a lot of money harming the
planet and who know that by the time we have
to reap what we sew, they'll be dead and they
don't really care, which is morbid but true. And then
here you guys are talking about building out these generational
programs that will certainly outlive many of us and create
a better world for the people coming after us. And
(18:07):
at the center of that you touched on this is
the creation of really good paying, clean energy jobs, the
kinds of jobs and to your point, projects that could
transition entire communities into better health. Can you tell folks
at home a little bit about what that means, because
(18:29):
I think sometimes people hear clean energy jobs and they
go like, yeah, okay, but what are the jobs? What
are the options?
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Oh my gosh, I love to say all kinds of
jobs for all kinds of people. So you know, if
you are interested in advanced manufacturing and you want to
help build out next generation soul or sells, or next
generation wind turbines, or next generation reconductoring material for the grid,
if you want to design any of these systems, if
(18:58):
you're interested in an enhanced geothermal if you're interested in
tidal power, offshore wind, if you're interested in energy efficiency
and the materials that support the buildings around you so
that you use less energy, if you're interested in batteries
for electric vehicles or for storing renewable energy, if you're
(19:18):
interested in the vehicles themselves. There are just so millions
of jobs that will be available in these future facing
industries that are good jobs. And here again, because the
tax credits incentivize the payment of prevailing wage and good
paying jobs, we're seeing wages rise I mean, these tax credits,
(19:40):
they really are working. We've got just in my field.
I mean, you know, they're they're incentivizing other kinds of
you know, they're incentivizing chip fabrication facilities, et cetera. Are
but just in the space of clean energy. They there
have been over five hundred factories now since the passage
(20:01):
of these laws that are coming to the US, expanding
in the US, being built in that would not have
been here but for these incentives, and creating so many
jobs across America in pockets all over the country. And
a lot of times people worry, you know, well, how
will communities that don't necessarily support clean energy or maybe
(20:25):
that have a leg in the fossil fuel world feel
about these new kind of jobs. And that's a really
important question because we can't leave people feeling in this
transition that they're being left behind or that they're less than.
But here's the kicker is that in this new energy world,
(20:47):
the jobs, there's so many jobs that are analogous to
the jobs that people are already doing. So for example,
you know, there's oil and gas industry that drill offshore
in the Gulf of Mexis. They know how to get
on an oil rig and drill down. Well, why not
have those offshore platforms be one of the things that
(21:11):
might be useful for offshore wind. If you do an
oil rig on land, you know how the subs, you know,
the subsurface, you could be in a place to help
pull up that geothermal heat. There's a lot analogies in this,
and so it's exciting. I mean, we we I have
the privilege of working for the most pro union president
(21:35):
that I think the country's ever seen, and the unions
and the amount of union jobs that have been created
both in constructing these facilities as well as working in
them is inspiring. To my mind.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
It's really exciting, and I think it's so important. You know,
it's human nature to worry that change might leave you behind,
but to know that there are are real there is
thought leadership around how anyone who works in a dirty
energy job could transition into a clean energy.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Job and.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Not have to shift all that much of their life.
That's that's important, you know, it's.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
One hundred important. And I you know, I mean, I
think about this, and it's not just oil and gas,
it's coal as well. And perhaps coal is even further
ahead in that there are a lot more coal mines
that have shut down this transition. And there's this in
Weird in West Virginia. They had a big steel factory
(22:42):
that was that shut down, and they have a number
of old mines as well in West Virginia. And this
agenda incentivizes the location of facilities and clean energy on
the places that produced the fossil energy of the past.
(23:04):
And so we like to say that the communities that
have powered our nation for the past one hundred years
should be communities that power our nation for the next
hundred years, but with clean energy exactly.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
And that was always again from the outside looking in.
You know, people will say, because I like to volunteer
and be involved in the political process, well how would
you do it? And I'm like, you know, anywhere there
was a coal mine is where I'd build the next
solar plant.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
You know.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
That's that's the goal, is to help people transition, to
give people safer versions of the jobs they have today,
better versions, better pay. You know, That's that's the idea
I think behind advancement. And you know, it's so cool
to see how these rescue plans are working. You know,
(23:53):
the whole world was upended in twenty twenty. And I
just read an article today, forgive me, I can't remember
if it was in the Washington Post or The Atlantic
that was talking about how when you look at global
inflation and you see these bills that President Biden passed
and what they did for the infusion in the economy,
how they're already paying for themselves. And how in Europe,
(24:15):
for example, they invested less and their inflation is still
twice as high. And what's happening here in terms of
you know, jobs, job creation, economic bolstering, Like we are
making this really incredibly strong economic recovery because we've invested
in our own country and in our own people. And
(24:38):
now to know that he's you know, not to do
with energy, but now he's going after the price gouging.
I'm just like, get them, Joe.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Let's go.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
He's obsessed with crisis. I'll just say, yeah, Joe from Scranton,
Amtrak Joe. He really focuses on how, you know, what
people are feeling out there. But do you point about
the economy. I mean, he under since he's been elected,
have been fourteen point eight million jobs created. That is
more jobs any president in any term in the history
(25:08):
of the United States. Inflation has gone from nine percent
to now three percent, and they're still working on getting
it lower. You know, wages are up, the number of
small businesses that have started again record amounts, five point
five million new business starts. Never had that many before.
(25:29):
The amount of people unemployed, it's under four percent now.
That is the longest period of time under four percent
in fifty years. That all of the indicators might to
just jump on what you were pointed to are extremely positive.
And when you compare us to our global neighbors and allies,
(25:52):
we have the most GDP growth of any of the
advanced nations. We are doing better than any of them
because go figure, policy works.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Policy works these people.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Yeah, yeah, it really does. And so we just got
to get to a point where people feel it. And
and you know, we may not be there yet because
the steel isn't in the ground in all these places yet.
And you know, but I'm telling you, uh, with the numbers,
any president would die to have these kind of economic
(26:29):
indicators much better than anywhere any time before.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
It's really it's quite incredible, and it is you know,
it's not lost on me that for some reason, Uh,
it doesn't seem to get covered in the press as
well as it should. Uh they it's so frustrating to
to sort of watch that that folks go, oh, well,
(26:54):
things are going pretty well on our home soil here.
We we don't love that. It doesn't give us, as
you know, as much clickbait as we want. So they
try to, you know, drum up some local controversy. It
feels important to be frank about what would be at
risk from an energy perspective for us if a Republican
(27:19):
gets elected this year.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Well, I think it is important to look at what
Congress has done and what the House has passed. What
you know, some of these think tanks are proposing if
there is a shift in administrations. You know, I think
that's important for people to take a look at. As
(27:42):
we speak, you and I I'm hatched, so I can't
get into politics pure power per se. But I think
people can do homework like you have been doing and
see the importance of moving forward an agenda for the
nation and for certainly for the climates. Yeah, you know,
(28:04):
it is the agenda that the president has. It is
the most robust climate agenda, the most aggressive, the most
forward leaning that we have ever seen in our lifetimes.
It is the most as al Gore repeatedly says, it
is the most significant in the world. When I talk
to my counterparts in other countries, because every country has
(28:28):
a Minister of Energy and we all meet regularly and talk.
But they're all so envious of what the United States
has done. And you know, some of them have been
a little mad because we're attracting a lot of investment
and jobs. But I keep saying to them, there is
so much need out there, you guys should.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
Go do it too.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
There is so much need for everyone to be installing
energy efficiency and clean energy in our countries. That don't
let us hold you back.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Yes, I love that.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Obviously, it can be taxing to work in politics, particularly
because when you hold a position like you do, you
have to be very careful about, you know, following the
rules and not saying the wrong thing. Can you say
a little bit about what we might expect to hear
from President Biden at the State of the Union. Is
(29:21):
that is that allowed?
Speaker 3 (29:23):
That's allowed? I mean when I diagram hatched for those
of you with the Hatch Act requires those of us
who are in these positions to not be involved at
all in partisan politics. So yes, we have to be
careful about that, but that doesn't mean I can't trumpet
what the president is doing is doing because that is super,
(29:44):
super important. So yeah, I mean he's he's going to
focus a lot on some of the things that we've
talked about in terms of cost to your point about
cracking down on the increasing costs, junk fees and all
of that. That's you know, he's gonna he's going to
talk about that. He's gonna, uh, he's going to present
(30:07):
I think he's going to lay out the historic achievements
right that he has delivered on and then his vision
for the future. He that the fact that he has
gotten more done in the first three years than most
presidents have accomplished in two terms. He's going to talk about,
you know, implementing this agenda from infrastructure and the Chips Act,
(30:28):
that's the Act for for the for for chips, for computers,
et cetera, and science to lowering drug prices again, lowering costs,
get rid of getting rid of junk fees. He's going
to talk about whose side he's on and the work
ahead for the future to make life better for for
every American so you know, giving people breathing room in
(30:51):
terms of lower lowering costs, lowering healthcare premiums. UH taken
on the drug companies to lower the cost of prescription drugs,
making the corporations and the wealthy pay their fair share
in taxes, putting the middle class first, saving our democracy,
protecting women's reproductive health, the rights and the freedoms that
(31:14):
are at stake in this very election nighting the country
his unity. He's got a unity agenda like privacy and
when don't you say unity, meaning that people on both
sides should care about ensuring privacy online, big tech, you know,
curbing fentanyl that's not partisan. Helping veterans is not partisan.
(31:37):
Ending cancer is not partisan. So we're gonna get as
much done as we can as soon as we can.
We're gonna put the pedal to the medal this year,
and so much more to do on a second term.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
And now a word from our sponsors, it's a lot.
I mean these to your point, these are very big,
audacious goals, and I think something that I have been
really impressed by over the last three years is the
(32:13):
capabilities of this administration to take on so many issues simultaneously.
You know, the President seems to have done a very
incredible job appointing folks such as yourself to run these
enormous departments and really run with these directives to make
things better and to advance us in terms of safety, technology,
(32:36):
the economy, people's rights, you know. And I know you
can't say it, but I can say it in the
face of relentless partisan attacks that are frankly, as a citizen,
exhausting to watch. I know you can't say anything again,
but I can't imagine how it feels on the inside
for you all to be battling this every day. But
(32:57):
I just really want to say thank you, because the
dedication must I mean, it must require an unbelievable amount
of fortitude. But we see you and we appreciate you. Guys.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
That is so so nice. I can say that, you know,
what fuels all of us is the work. And we
love our boss and we're completely committed, and we love
the fact that we're making impact in people's lives. And
there's nothing more. I mean, you know, we don't get
paid the big salaries or anything like that, but we
(33:33):
get psychic wealth yea, in serving and I.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Hope, you know, for people that's so cool.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
I hope folks think about it too for themselves. You
know what this is working in public service, something that
might intrigue you. You know, we've got a whole climate
core for example, we're recruiting for We want people to
be part of the change, and that can mean obviously
activism on the outside, but could also mean working on
(34:01):
the inside to implement an agenda. And I really encourage
people to consider that as well.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Yeah, what personally for you, what keeps you motivated?
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (34:14):
For sure, it is this, this agenda and an amazing
team of people that I work with who are all
equally fervently committed to healing our planet, having this impact
in the world. And you know, there's something about feeling
(34:35):
like metrics where you achieve a metric and you get
to move and celebrate how much how many more gigawatts
of clean energy are on the grid and this month
or this year, how much CO two reduction did we see?
You know, I mean things are happening out there that
we get to demarket and that is fuel again. But
(34:57):
I will say, you know, there's a lot of there's
a lot of emotion, emotional attachment to you know, for example,
we work in Puerto Rico. The President has charged the
Department of Energy to lead rebuilding the Puerto Rican grid,
which has been decimated by hurricanes and thousands of people
(35:18):
have died in Hurricane Maria, et cetera. Just really horrible
situation there. But rebuilding the grid to get to one
hundred percent clean electricity and so being able to bring
solar panels to homes in Puerto Rico is so gratifying.
Was just there recently and the first the Congress gave
(35:43):
us a billion dollars to be able to put on
rooftop solar. Won't get everybody, but it will get the
most vulnerable, the ones, the people who are medically who
need medical devices that are dependent on electricity. And for
Puerto Ricans, you know, clean energy, it's nice, but really
it's resist Lilliancy. That is super important that you want
the ability to access energy even when the grid goes down,
(36:05):
and they have so much they can do that. So
putting solar and batteries on homes is super important. So
we went to this one house and the grandmother was
there in a wheelchair. Her daughter has cancer and her
grandson has cerebral palsy and he is connected to a
breathing machine. Tiny home of poor family. When they signed
(36:29):
up to get solar and storage, they cried, They hugged us.
They said, you just don't know what this means to us.
It means life to us. And those kind of moments,
that kind of feeling like, you know, really people are
being impacted by the work you do. There's nothing more
(36:51):
priceless than that.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
That's so incredible.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
And you know when you talk about your own family,
you know, your husband and encouraging you to go for
it in the beginning of your career and BDAG and
you know the fact that your kids were little.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
What what is it like for you now? I mean,
how how.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Do you juggle you know, your your life as an
individual and and with your family and then this big
public service job is it? Do you always just feel
like you're spinning a lot of plates or do you
guys have a great like divide and conquer sort of mentality.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
Oh, we definitely are spending a lot of plates. My
kids are grown. I am children now and I live
with one of my children and her husband and my
two grandchildrens. I see them when I'm able to be
home before they go to bed. I see them on
the weekends if I am there for a weekend, but
I feel connected to them very closely. So that takes
(37:56):
a lot of uh, you know, that brings a lot
of joy and a lot of balance. But that and
you know, my husband lives with us too, so we
are all together, and it's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
That's so neat. That's so neat.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
So for those of us who are excited, who want
to be more involved maybe who are looking for more information,
are there news sources you'd point us to? Are their
articles we should read? Who should we be following on
social media so we can stay on top of what
the administration's doing?
Speaker 2 (38:35):
What do we need to know?
Speaker 3 (38:36):
Yeah? I mean, first of all, you know, we encourage
you to go to our fantastic website at energy dot gov.
We also on that website we have you know, links
to what we're doing obviously, and follow certainly me on
Instagram and on on x I guess now and on LinkedIn.
(38:58):
But I think that it's really important for people to
to seek out podcasts that they're interested and I listen
to a lot of nerdy energy podcasts, and for people
who are energy nerds, there's a lot of really great
ones out there, the Energy Gang, the Columbia Energy Exchange.
You know, there's a lot of really fun and interesting
(39:19):
podcasts if you're if you're interested in that. But I
think it's really super important for people to you know,
to get active, to get active and ensure that your
voice is heard, make sure that you are aware of
(39:40):
so many of these issues. I mean, a lot of
times energy can be you know, there's a lot of
science involved, obviously, and for folks who may not be
so inclined that there's you know a lot of different
types of energy, whether you're trying to at nuclear energy,
fission or fusion and all of that, but it is
it's whole fascinating to be able to read about and
(40:03):
be part of and you don't have to be a scientist.
So in addition to reading about it, I think people
should take a look and see whether this is something
they might be interested in pursuing, either either inside or outside,
because it is really you know, community organizing is a
huge part of energy. Designing programs is a huge part
(40:26):
of energy. Inner governmental work is a huge part of
energy in addition to the research and the development of it.
So both on learning about it as well as on
getting involved yourself from external and potentially raising your hand
to work on the inside. There's nothing more important from
(40:50):
my perspective long term as to what's happening to us.
I mean, you read a story this morning that we're
not going to have ice in the oceans anymore, and
it's we've got to get I mean, our hair should
be on fire because our planet is on fire, and
we need people who are seriously committed to making change.
(41:10):
We don't want people inside the department who are committed
to the status quo or who are just here to
pick up a paycheck. We got to have people who
are really determined. And if folks who are listening are
in that camp, we'd encourage you to apply the encourage
you to come join us. That's so exciting, grateful for
people like you who are you know, raising the flag
(41:31):
and using your platform to be able to get the
word out. I just can't thank you enough for that.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Well thanks, I mean, my goodness, it's such a cool
thing for me, you know, as an adult now to
basically have an excuse to be my nerdiest self and
ask fascinating people fascinating questions. When you think about the
year ahead. I imagine all of these big, audacious goals
(41:59):
feel like quite a work in progress. But you guys
of the administration really have a game plan. What feels
like a work in progress for you, so.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
Much is a work in progress. First thing that comes
to mind when you say that is one of the
things that the invest in America Agenda assigned to the
Department of Energy and to the States is getting rebates
in the hands of people who want to buy energy
(42:33):
efficient appliances like heat pumps or induction stoves. And so
we are working with the states because it's all going
to go through state programs, but we want the states
to get that money out and to have their programs
designed so that people can access these rebates, you know,
(42:54):
in their income dependent in most cases. But if you
want to get an induction stove, you might be able
to get hundreds, if not even more off of an
induction stove for your home, and an induction stove for
people who are unaware, it's the most efficient kind of stove,
(43:14):
and we are strongly encouraging if people are interested for
them to use them. A lot of people who use
induction stoves won't ever go back because they love them. Similarly,
I want to make sure people are aware of the
tax credits for electric vehicles. For example, if you want
to buy a used electric vehicle, you can get a
four thousand dollars tax credit, but that not just to
(43:35):
pick up on your taxes, but at the dealership off
the top of the vehicle if you buy. If you
want to buy a new electric vehicle, there's a lot
of there's a wide range of kinds of electric vehicles.
Obviously some super expensive, but there's some that are more affordable.
And if you lease an electric vehicle, you can still
get a seven five hundred dollars credit that you can
(43:57):
take down the amount that you'll have to find it
or if you want to buy it outright. So I
want people to know those those are the catches for
the purchase of an electric vehicle. The vehicle has to
be made in the United States. If they lease an
electric vehicle just has to be an electric vehicle doesn't
have to be made in the United States. And if
they buy used when it doesn't have to be made
(44:18):
in the United States. But I want people to know
what they can access. Similarly, for families that are really
income constrained, that they can pick up the phone and
call to get their home weatherized. So you could have
somebody come in for free and install installation in their
home in the attic, energy efficient windows, energy efficient doors,
(44:42):
replace your light bulbs with lights. Get thirty percent off
of your energy bill every month by just installing fit
energy efficient technologies in your home, and that's for free,
and you can call your local community action agency to
see whether you qualify. So part of our work to
(45:03):
do is getting the word out about these opportunities that
are available for people as we move through this agenda.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
That's so cool, Thank you.
Speaker 3 (45:16):
Yeah, I'd say we've still got a lot of work
to do in a lot of things as well, including
getting the price down for some of these advanced technologies
that we are working on. So if I can just
say a word about that. Yeah, you know, we have
launched you know how there used to be a moonshot,
(45:37):
We've launched a series of earth shots on how we
want to bring down the cost of technologies so that
they can be deployed more readily. So it's a little
bit longer serving. So we're looking at how technology advances
can bring down costs. So, for example, one of the
most promising future technologies is clean hydrid, which is a
(46:01):
form of energy storage and a form of clean energy,
and we want to reduce the cost of that so
that it's affordable across the board. And we've got all
these hydrogen hubs across America that we've just launched to
be able to do that. Another technology is offshore wind,
but on floating platforms, so that the wind the platform
(46:24):
can move and turn to wherever the wind is best
situated and they don't have to be and especially for
places like California where it's very deep and very steep.
It's one of the most promising kinds of technologies that
we're looking at. So there's just all sorts of really
interesting next generation technologies. How to have a net zero home,
(46:47):
how to have a home that is not producing any
CO two and not using much energy except for I
want that energy, I know, right, yeah, materials that you
would be using for that. So there's a whole series
of earth shots that we have taken to bring down
the price and to make sure that we are doing
(47:07):
all we can to deploy clean energy today and in
the future.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
That's so cool.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
I can't wait to keep in touch about what our
options are with our homes, because I'm ready to I'm
ready to be a pilot house.
Speaker 3 (47:19):
Let's go, Oh do it? Do it a net zero
or maybe even a CO two negative.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
I would love it. Sign me up.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
I was just at in southern California, actually at a
community that is a net zero community where they're using
for exit. They have solar, they have battery storage to
save the solar energy so that you can use it
at night. They have what is known as a virtual
power plant where you can take your electric vehicle, you
(47:51):
can charge it at home, and the electric vehicle actually
provides power to the home itself, the battery and the
electric vehicle. So it's two way charging, meaning that it
takes a charge from the grid when the when you
don't need it, it gives you power back or the
or the power back when it's needed. I mean, those
kinds of innovations are all coming down the pike, and
(48:12):
it's very exciting.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
It's really really cool.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
It's a really nice reminder that there are possibilities we
may not have even imagined yet that can solve the
problems that we're currently living with. And it's really heartening
to be reminded of the potential and to know that
all of this is underway. So thank you for your dedication.
(48:40):
Thank you for being so ferociously committed to this. We
need you and we're grateful for you.
Speaker 3 (48:49):
Well, I appreciate the chance to be on to talk
with you, and I certainly appreciate your activism and your
advocacy and your strength and your voice.
Speaker 2 (49:00):
Thank you. It always just makes me so happy to
see you well.
Speaker 3 (49:04):
Thanks so much for having me on. It makes me
super happy to see you too.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (49:09):
You have a great rest of your day, and like
I said, you let us know anything you need support
on We're here.
Speaker 3 (49:14):
Thank you so much, appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
Okay, thank you,
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