The Debate That Was As Bad As Expected

In today's episode we recreate the terrible debate by being frantic and frustrated about it for an hour.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Worst Year Ever, a production of I Heart
Radio Together Everything. So don't don't I am become death

(00:22):
destroyer of debates and also worlds the year ever? Look
so be It's fine. So how you introduced a podcast? Alright,
I'm the king of podcasts today, and I decide that
we're talking about the debate. I don't know if any

(00:43):
of us voted on that. I'm I'm gonna quote Vice
President bite it, shut up man, shut up man, repel
against the king. No, no, I reject. You don't throw.
You don't get to throw Vice President Joe Biden's words
back at me because he wasn't his drum because I
am when he said them. So there, you don't know that, guys.

(01:06):
We just finished, along with a lot of you guys.
I'm assuming watching, uh, the first presidential debate, and it
was I don't know what that's called. I'm gonna call
it right now, the most erotic presidential debate. It was.
It was. That is my prediction, my only prediction for

(01:31):
the rest of subsequent debates will not be this erotic. Oh,
I don't know. I feel like they can only get
sexier from here. I see this is where you and
I disagree, Cody, this is the real left wing split.
Candidate debates get sexier or have they peaked in terms
I'm still I'm still undecided. We'll see, well, see, this

(01:55):
is why we're a perfect microcosm of the American voting public. Yeah,
and a nice way too because Sophie Son auto worker.
All right, we need to get this show on track
and talk about the debate, which is why we are
all here. Right. It's late for me. I'm normally in bed. Um.
I'm also recording in my bedroom next to my bed,

(02:16):
and it's so tempting. Um. That was really hard to watch. Um,
worse than worse than Yeah, So I don't know why
we're subjecting our friends and fans two more chaos. Um.
And that's what it was. It was chaos. Um. But

(02:38):
we had a little bit I think we we all
walked away with slightly different impressions and and mine was
a bit darker. UM. I felt like, what are we
trying to reach here, our our undecided voters. Um. And
to me, even though Biden did have some great points
that we're going to get to and talk about the

(03:00):
different things that were sent tonight, UM, I just kind
of uh, left feeling worried about how this plays, about
how they can pick apart what was said, um, and
just horrified that this was allowed to happen. Like, come on,
Chris Wallace, I don't know. There have to be things

(03:21):
that you can do to get that under control my work,
straight up, man, straight up, just tell them to shut
the funk up. Just just Mr President, I need you
to shut the fuck up for one fucking second in
your goddamn life. You did say to shut up or
that or no, but that was Biden, not Chris Wallace. Um. Yeah,

(03:46):
I mean it's an impossible job because of who was
up there on stage and what he was clearly trying
to do. Um, but could have done a little bit better,
could have shown a little less respect for the guy
on stage who deserves none of your respect. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

(04:08):
I would have liked a throne punch. The shut up
man was good. I would have liked it if he
just tried to cold cock him. I think that would
have been And especially if he'd cold cocked him while
covering his mouth with his hand, that would have been
a good move. It would have been a good move.
That's both. Yeah. I mentioned earlier today, like I and

(04:28):
he he didn't do this entirely. Um. And part of it,
I think it's just like the sharpness a little you know,
sharpness has gone down a little bit. Um, but uh,
stop with the have you no decency stuff and just
like tell him to shut up, treat him like a bully. Like,
treat like a bully. Be a bully, be a bully back. Um,

(04:48):
I don't I don't know if yeah, it's I don't know.
I just don't know if like anyone's like watching the
debate undecided, like, oh, which one is more reasonable? Which
one is? Like? Right, I mean, you can't even understand
half of the things that he was saying. I was
disappointed right out of the gate. And he did have
some great answers. Biden didn't have some great answers. I

(05:10):
was disappointed right out of the gate, um with how
he handled responding to Trump's on Scotus like they be right.
In Trump's rambling answer, he said, well, I can guarantee
you if it were the Democrats in this position, they
would do it. That end of sentence. Biden's chance to talk,

(05:32):
and he doesn't say the thing that he fucking obviously
should say. I was and it just evolved from there.
For me, I was so frustrated. Um. But over and
over again things like that, like just you know, say
the thing, say say clear, state the fact here that
you would people were because and this happens like in

(05:57):
all debates, Like you're frustrated because they're not saying the
thing that you want them to say. You're shouting at
the TV like no, say this, and that's bound to happen.
But there were a lot of easy connections like that,
UM that I think unfortunately comes down to, like, ah,
we nominated the oldest guy. Uh he's not as sharp
as he was even four years ago. And uh that's

(06:20):
just true. Like we don't need to get into like
the nitty gritty of it and stuff, but like he
it would have been nice to have somebody who's like
like ready for Trump um and able to respond like
that even when they talked about nothing negative has happened
at any of my rallies. Hermin Kine fucking died. What
why didn't he bring that was like your friend, your

(06:42):
friend Herman Kane died because he took a photo at
your rally bragging about how he's not wearing a mask
and then he fucking died. He died. Now he's a
fucking corpse, like slam dunk. And it's like a lot
of stuff like that where it's like you could have
said any number of things in direct response to what
Trump is saying. Yeah, the Garland thing was like very blatant,

(07:05):
but it did happen over and over again, and I
think it is like that, probably he's getting a lot
of different advice. I'm like, don't do this, don't go
in on this, or like make sure you're polite or whatever.
But part of it is I think that he's just
not as sharp and doesn't happen, and that is an
extremely stressful situation. I think that that's obviously a big
part of his whole strategy. Trump strategy going into this
is to just bulldoze um and and Biden gets flustered.

(07:30):
He does, like I think that he did a pretty
good job considering that, but like still you're like, say
the thing, say the obvious thing, a wild that was terrible.
That was he was He was really bad in the
Supreme Court stuff. He picked up later on that the

(07:52):
answers of his really good. He gave very good answers
on like the political violent stuff in large, he gave
a moderately good answer. On law enforcement, he gave a
really good answer. He he did a really what I thought,
whoever's coaching him? Um, when he when Trump brought up
the suburbs and like the fact that he was going
to destroy the suburbs when he pivoted to climate change,

(08:13):
that was like, that's actually a very very smart move,
Like that's really fucking good. Um. And I will say,
having watched the room, watched the debate in a room
full of leftists, I we I think everybody appreciated the
fact that he was shocked by the fact that he
didn't throw Antifa under the bus. He kind of did

(08:38):
the opposite of that, Like he said the thing that
it's like he yeah, the uh the I mean yeah,
Antifa is uh an idea, not an organization. Something along
those lines is what he has. Like that's like, yeah,
that's what you want someone to say, especially talking about
how like well even your FBI says that or not

(09:00):
issue and the Proud like yeah, speaking, no, we can
we can move to the Proud Boys later when I
have I have this, I have this Scotch, and I
have this beer, and I'll probably have the beer the
rest of the episode because I'm going slow on it.
But when I finished the scotch, we can talk about

(09:21):
the Proud Boys. We should be clear I was meeting
Trump saying to the Proud Boys specifically to stay back. Yes, yes, yes, yes,
I'm not. Give me a little bit more scotch and
I'll be ready to talk about that. We should talk
some more about the Supreme Court stuff, because that was

(09:42):
important and a complete ship show. Yeah, man, like the
just the obviously, it was so frustrating to like all
of the interruptions and every little, tiny, little baby boy
thing that Trump tried to do the entire time. It's
so unpleasant. He's the most unpleasant person I can imagine.
It was unbearable. It was so fucking unbearable. Um. But

(10:05):
the Supreme Court stuff is really like frustrating to watch
because it is that simple, like just say this. Um yeah,
I'm curious to your thinking on the matter, Katie, in particular,
like what, like what what would you have considered a
good response to that? Because I think we can all
agree that like praising her is a bad response. But yeah, absolutely,

(10:28):
so there's that that. I'm right out of the gate.
The last thing that Trump said was in his statement
was talking about how the Democrats we tried to do
the exact same thing, and right there in front of
Biden is the appropriate response as to what happened the

(10:49):
last time we were in an election year. And it
wasn't even on his side. I mean, it's just right there, um,
And that was so disappointing and so easy and could
have been a sentence, and he dropped missed that to me,

(11:10):
it said, it was like, but I see that all
the time, like him kind of like taking making his
way to making a point, and you're kind of losing
people when you've got this guy next to him just
shouting things, you know. Um, yeah, but that that's what
I've been referring to when with regards to the Scotis answer. Yeah,
nobody does their best shouting next to our standing next

(11:33):
to a shouty asshole. At the same time, it was
his job to rise above that and he did it. Points. Yeah,
he was also yeah that in that answer. Um yeah,
you you you saw in that moment, you saw in
a couple of moments the bullied kid that Joe Biden was,

(11:55):
and I think in that moment you saw the kid
being cowed, and later on you saw like him kind
of getting punchy and swinging back. But during those when
it was really important for him to um to get
that one right, especially because a lot of people will
have turned it off. A lot of people did not.
That's what I keep coming back to. The first few
minutes are really important because I even people that I know,

(12:22):
you know, understandably probably people listening to this right now, Uh,
turned it off pretty quickly. And when do you think
about and decided undecided voters are really what we are
aiming for? Here? Are those still a thing? Though? Is that?
I mean, like the question I guess we have when

(12:44):
it comes to like how much this will matter, and
we we can't know yet, so we're all just kind
of spitting in the wind at the momentum. Did were
either of their performances enough one way or the other
to have actually impacted the people who are undecided voters? No,
I don't know, that's what I think is that? But

(13:05):
I think that that inherently benefits Trump. I I think that,
I mean Biden's ahead though in terms of the Yeah,
I don't know, no, but I think that's a really
good point, and it's important to consider because You're right,
we don't really know how this sways things. It's all
it's all just us hoping for the best. Really. But like, like,

(13:28):
I think that I've shared this with you guys off recording,
but I've been doing like campaigning, phone banking, and I
have talked to a lot of people who are undecided
or more than that, disillusions and don't want to vote.
So what I'm kind of looking for from Biden is
reason for people to change their mind, and that's not

(13:49):
what I get from tonight's performance. Um. I think that
there are people, like Sophie mentioned her family members who
who are watching and are like, you know, what the
seal the deal. I'm sure that that does exist to
some degree, but in general, I don't know just the
number of people who feel just frustrated with both choices.

(14:11):
Um alarming to me. I I, yeah, well it's a
bleak sort of thing. Um watching that, Like we can
like obviously, and we talked all the time about like
Trump's not the cause of the problems, He's a symptom
and so on and so forth. What we saw today
on stage was all Trump like he did that, he
did the thing, um and Uh, we get we we

(14:34):
got what we got, um, and it's very frustrating to
see him sort of bring just bring it all down
and like pull back the curtain of like this is
this is the America we have? Um And but with Biden,
Like it's very very grim. Um. I hope that Trump loses.

(14:55):
I wanted to lose really really badly. I want him
to cry and then shoot himself to death on the toilet. Uh.
There there's a there's a plan for for Trump. But
like I want you want to elvis the president? Yeah,
like um and and Secret Service Cody Johnston's your man.
Uh hold all my calls from the Secret Service place. Um.

(15:19):
The but he's he's awful and we know that. And
I wanted to lose. It is very uh grim and
bleak that we spent two years uh looking for somebody
to take on Donald Trump and to replace him and
get him out of the Oval office, and what we
got is Joe fucking Biden. Um. And that doesn't change

(15:40):
the fact that I want him to lose. I wanted
to Trump to lose. But man, that this is democracy, Cody,
And democracy means that your best case scenario is the
leader who wants the fewest people dead wins the election,
and that's what we got. And like again like like
we're not that's we're in. The situation was like, it's

(16:00):
it is the fucking lesser of it's all. That's all
the things. But man, it could have been fucking anyone.
We spent two years and we're like, oh, the guy
that we already tried for eight years will do that guy. Um,
and it's just really depressing. Um, I'm pretty sure you
said we could have had anyone, anyone with Hillary Clinton too,
Uh well, I think I think if Joe Biden ran

(16:21):
probably would have won. Actually, um, but no, yeah, because
a lot of it was misogyny. Yeah, he's a man,
he's a he's a man, he's a little he would
have been a little sharper that would have done it.
Which is also really fucking bleak and depressing. But like anyone,
there's not much that isn't bleak about in depressing. Yeah. Um,
so I don't know, it's I'm I'm trying to I'm

(16:43):
trying to good pivoting. Everything that they said about any
specific city was bad, um, which Philadelphia is already going
off on Twitter because the President insulted Philadelphia. Can we
talk about some of the things he said? What were
some of your favorite Yes. I liked when Chris Wallace said,

(17:05):
actually that we'd had a hundred knights of violence, because
I would have asked Chris Wallace who did the violence?
Chris responsible for most of that violence, Chris Wallace. I
have footage, like I know who was responsible, and it
wasn't Antifa. It was a bunch of cops. They did

(17:25):
throw a couple of malatobs, but before that happened, they
got beaten and had their heads shattered by rubber bullets
and got thousands of random people tear gas. Not that
I am okay with malatobs, because I actually hate them.
I've had a few explode next to me. I don't
enjoy it. But when you try to murder people with

(17:46):
rubber bullets and grenades for weeks on end, they might
try to light fires on you, they might do that
doesn't make it okay. It's just what happens. Maybe you
shouldn't repeatedly assault people if you don't want them to
assault you back. So that's actually something that I think
that Joe Biden, of all people, he didn't do so
bad um when he talked because like logically when you

(18:09):
talk about these sort of things and civil unrest, um,
and like we can debate for days on like what
he could have and Obama could have done better when
they were in office, but at but he could have
gotten that knife miss allowed under the streets faster, we
could have a knife every American's hand. What if our
mass shootings were committed by knife missiles? Thanks for nothing,

(18:34):
but my point, My point is that when Joe is
talking about civil unrest, his answer, his approach to it
was well, when something like that happens, you get everybody
together and you talk about it. The solution to civil
unrest is not a boot that gets even heavier on
on their neck. It's to find out what the like,

(18:56):
what are you protesting about. Let's figure this out, um.
And whether or not you think Joe Biden's like, yeah,
I'm gonna I'm gonna solve I'm gonna do it. That's
what you do, and that's what you say. You say that, well,
we would actually address the concerns of the protesters instead
of saying, well, we're gonna send a national guard. Yeah,
I did enjoy that. His response was the national guard

(19:18):
isn't the answer. Talking is the answer. Sorry, Katie, I'm sorry, No, no,
I think that we have to take a quick break.
You know what's a lot like a boot stomping your
face for a tourney capitalism. And you know what represents capitalism,
it's products and services that support this show. Oh my god,
that was a beautiful thank you, thank you, thank you.

(19:40):
Joe Biden inspired me together everything. So let's let's talk
about Katie. You you're you're amped to talk about Trump
sunk ups, so let's um, let's move to that. I

(20:02):
working just jumping all over the place here, much like
I've gotten a second large glass of Scotch before we talk.
I thought he was just moving on to his beer.
But no, I want to I want to really amp
this up. I'm gonna be very drunk before I talk
about the Proud Boys, like the Proud Boys were on
Saturday when I watched them kick a black live streamer

(20:25):
in the head. You're just so good, these pivots because
he fell down after kicking him because he was so drunk. Anyway,
sorry Jesus. Um yeah, let's talk about some of the
ridiculous things Trump said, because they're all on our mind.
I don't know. One of the things that I I

(20:47):
loved was Um or no, I should say hated. I
don't know Bow. I don't know both. Yeah. That do
you actually think that he does know that his son
is dead? Or do you think that that was just
him playing stupid? It felt real to me. That did

(21:11):
not feel like Trump, like we've seen a lot of Trump.
It does. Yeah, it is even worse. Like I'm not
defending him, but like, I don't think he knew who
Bow was because I think he's unbriefable, He's impossible to
prepare for things, and he is too much of a
narcissist to think for a second about a person that
he doesn't have any like there's no political benefit and
attacking Bow because he's a dead war hero so he

(21:34):
doesn't exist to Donald Trump, like that guy couldn't stick
in his mind. That felt real to me. I don't
think he has in his mind that. Uh, there is
a good son. Joe Biden has two family members. One
is his wife and one is his son who did
the the cocaine Ukraine stuff. That's it, um and that's

(21:56):
cocaine Ukraine. Uh, Sophie, you mentioned this. I believe in
our text. Sorry, but I was also really impressed by
how Biden addressed his son's you know, yeah, that was
really classy and important because a lot of people in
this country suffer from addictions or have loved ones who do,

(22:17):
if not the vast majority. It's probably his strongest moment
to me, he said, my son, like a lot of people,
like a lot of people you know at home, had
a drug problem. He's overtaken it, he's fixed it, he's
worked on it, and I'm proud of him, and I
think that, yeah, that's a response. Yeah, the kind of
not a not a retreat. He had a couple of those.

(22:38):
In terms of the stuff that was good about Joe,
it was the responses where I expected him to retreat
where he didn't because a lot of the time that's
what that's what he didn't when it was the Supreme
Court thing, because Joe Biden isn't directly affected by roe
Vi Wade and so he didn't feel like it was
worth defending. I'm baffled that he defended Auntie fa Um

(23:01):
kind like within the context of the Democratic Party, he
defended antifa Um, which again baffles me. Um, But I'm
I'm glad he took that chance is as a friend
of mine who I will not name because I'm worried
about them being targeted by the government, even though I
don't believe they've ever committed a crime, said, what about
the government? The government's uh in the streets? What about them?

(23:26):
That was the state. But Joe Biden has successfully won
my vote by like convincing me he like wants me
to go to prison less than the president. Um, he's not.
He's not gonna be like, you're an anarchist jurisdiction because
he doesn't conflate anything with like, oh, you're the Dems
are anarchy and they're also Antifa and like anything. Yeah,

(23:47):
he's not. Um. No, that was um. In terms of
like the stuff he did that was really good. He
had a couple of great pivots. Um. One of them
was and I guess all of Antifa. Uh that was
the thank you to the FBI director for providing a quote. Uh.

(24:09):
The other one, yeah, famed anarchist, the director of the FBI.
So that was good. Uh. And I was I was
surprised by it because it speaks to a couple of things. Right,
if you're actually talking about like what does this say
about where we are in America right now. I don't
think he went. I don't think that was off the cuff.

(24:32):
I don't think you go. I don't think you was.
Joe Biden go into this debate without being prepped on
he's gonna ask you about Antifa. He's gonna he might
ask you to disavow Antifa. What is your answer? And
he was prepped with that quote from the FBI director
and he knew it by rote, which means that he
practiced it um which means that there was a calculation

(24:52):
made by the people prepping him, who presumably represent people
who are at the highest level of the Democratic Party.
A calculator made that it's actually a bad call to
completely throw Antifa under the bus. You can't break you
can't embrace them, but it is a bad call to
just say no, I think we should throw them all
in prison too, Like that was a bad decision. That
would have been a bad call, And so they they

(25:15):
pushed him not to make that call. And that is
a one of the rare, not depressing things that's happened lately. Yeah,
that was wild because like um, it's it was definitely
a calculation and he had that prepared, and he was like, yeah,
they're not They're not an organization, they're an ideology or whatever.

(25:36):
And it's interesting just knowing that and then sort of
contrasting it with some of his other his other calculations,
Like Trump, I think, very ineffectively would constantly go you
just lost the left. Oh you're gonna get all the
all the Bernie stuff, and like that, well you lost,
you you almost lost to him. That was like really

(25:57):
really pathetic of Trump actually, um, and as much as
like sometimes sometimes it was a bummer and sometimes I'm
like like not agreeing with Trump, but like there's like
irk some things that Biden said during the night. I
was like, oh man, that bothers me. And then Trump
would be like losing the left and be like fuck
you Trump, Joe motherfucker, like and like man, what do

(26:24):
you mean you? Yeah? And then and then gotten into it.
I yeah, I mean wow. Okay. So there's there's We've
got a debate watchers poll out from CNN. This was
just posted by Matt McDermott, who's a polster. Uh with
Vice President Whitman insight strategies, I guess uh, And this
is he's got a screen grab from CNN here, So

(26:45):
this is their poll, which has a six point three
percent margin of error. Um, who won the debate? Joe Biden,
Donald Trump? Now that's CNN. I would say, let's let's
eight Joe by okay, Um, so I would say, like
they're Barney six point three. It's fucking CNN. So let's
say it's still a comfortable lead for Joe. If that's

(27:09):
this is even in like the Vegas ballpark of accurate.
So that's not terrible. Pretty sure the debates too, well, yeah, yeah,
that's fair. Although, speaking of Hiller Clinton being uh in
all the debates as well, it's very weird that Trump
kept saying that Biden called uh uh black criminal super predators,

(27:31):
which he didn't and like he like Biden sucks on
the criminal like all all the stuff we've talked about
the crime bill. But it's very funny that he was
like superpredators, super predators, and your husband Bill or like whatever,
Like he didn't get to that far, but it's very
clear he's like confusing the whole thing. Also, does Joe
Biden hate law and order or did he write the
disastrous crime bill? Pick one? What are we doing? Yeah? Yeah,

(27:55):
those are. It's very inconsistent, and I guess that's part
of I'm so surprised Joe didn't pivot harder on the
law and order. That he did state that like some
there's police officers who need to be in fucking prison. Um,
there need to be dialogues and civil rights leaders need
to be a part of them, and like, that's not
what I believe. But he also didn't say he thought

(28:17):
defunding the police was always the wrong decision. He did
embrace that in certain circumstances, which is not again, it's
it's not where I am. But I didn't expect Joe
Biden to throw anything towards that, and it it's not
so much that like it's an act of courage and
we sup praise him for it. We should be reading
what the Democratic Party is seeing in the decisions Joe

(28:39):
Biden is making. And one of the decisions they're clearly
making is that you can't throw Antifa under the bus completely.
You can't um give it all to the cops completely.
And we'll talk about this and I guess very soon,
you can't throw the Green New Deal under the bus.
Because while he like his statement about not coming up
with it was I don't know. We'll talk about that second.

(29:00):
He specifically stated that it paid for itself, like he
felt that it was important politically to defend it to
that extent, even though he's not committing to it, which
which is noteworthy. That's not that's something to pay attention
to if you actually care about, maybe like where the
party is getting pulled, if you believe parties can be
pulled and you're not just a bomb thrower, Um, then

(29:23):
that's an important thing to pay attention to. It was.
It was a bummer because um he did. It felt
like you threw the greeny Deal under the bus in
a way, in the same way he rejects a lot
of like the like the socialized medicine, the Bernie the
Bernie Sanders comments. All that was all very frustrating. His
green deal comment, like some of it was like, man,

(29:43):
just people like people like the new deal. I don't
support the green new Deal, right. That kind of stuff
is very frustrating, especially having like conversations with people who like,
actually Biden loves the Green New Deals and his plans. No,
he doesn't stop saying that, stop dying for him. We
can be honest and say it's better than X or Y,
but the the lying form is very frustrating. But you're

(30:05):
right that that is an element where like it squashes
the argument of like, if we're gonna do something for
the environment, if we're gonna do anything anything resembling the
Green New Deal. It pays for itself because it intrinsically
creates jobs, which should be a conservative thing, you know,
creating jobs and getting people work. And it was when

(30:26):
famous leftist president Richard Nixon unbelievable. No, I just want
to know what you guys think about, um, some of
the the mail in ballot voters stuff, because that is
what right now I was, and I wasn't expecting them

(30:46):
to do this. But the entire time, like, cut his mike,
cut his mike. What are you doing? Rhone? Stop airing
this stuff. They're going to every single network is going
to air Donald Trump's victory speech on election night. They
will air it under they will go to his podium,
they'll show his podium live for twenty minutes and he'll
be empty. He'll go out and he'll declare victory and
they'll they'll come back to them after he doesn't and

(31:08):
they'll be like, wow, very Oh, why is he allowed
to do like they'll they'll it's they're just gonna do
the same fucking thing. It's so maddening. But also I
mean that it's good. I couldn't hear you. Um well,
I was just I mean, that element of it was. Yes,
all of that's very scary and frustrating, but also just

(31:32):
um his messaging. Of course, it's the stuff that he's
been saying all along, but I just gasped when talking
about ballots and fraud and all of that, and and
just the shift he's saying. What was he even saying
people can buy their ballots from the postman? Does he
think that mailman? An he's saying that you're finding ballots

(31:57):
in creeks in creek if you, if you, if you
transcribed that, hopped into a time machine, jumped back to
Nineto and got back into what would have been Cody
season three of The Simpsons, and gave that to the
Simpsons show runners for the guy the voice actor who

(32:18):
does Abe Simpson's voice to read it would have matched
perfectly like his whole rans They're finding trump balance in
the in the streams. They had my lasted an onion
to my belt moment. What was that at all? It
was the style at the times. Katie angry Man shouts
at Cloud. It's just I was yelling at the TV

(32:41):
at this point. But my mom called me afterwards, who
is a moderate Democrat, But she said, did Trump say
that he wants people to watch us while we vote?
To make sure that? He sure did so? Well? What
kind of creamy shoes? That's oh no, because back then

(33:03):
Nichols had pictures of bees on them. Give me five
bees for a quarter, yeah, which, yeah, give me five
bees for a quarter, you'd say, and then you put
it in your pocket next to the onion that you
had tied to your belt, which was the style at
the time. Um, yeah, wid um, Yeah, we can talk
about that moment now. Then you know what, we're gonna

(33:25):
talk about that moment we get back from this commercial break.
You know what, won't give you five bees for a quarter?
These products and services everything, and we're back. Um, we're

(33:47):
gonna talk about that moment some more. The one where
he urged his supporters to go to the polls and
watch that was a good So I think a lot
of context actually do it. It doesn't need context, but
it could use some context. So all right, let me

(34:09):
get let me start with the context. So, the way
that a rifle works is you have these cartridges that
are usually brass with a metal slug, and then you
hit a primer that detonates and ignites the gun pattern,
propelling the bullet out of the barrel, which spins the
bullet for greater accuracy so that it goes into the
head of a dissident. And that's more or less what

(34:31):
Donald I think, I think what Donald Trump was going
for there. Sorry for that. I didn't even know that
was that was a good pair. I would have I wouldn't.
I would have spent twenty minutes on that. Um. But
I think you nailed it. Um Yeah, man, wild stuff. UM.
So I don't know what we've talked about. We've talked
about this before in other podcasts about UM. Actually, on

(34:55):
the day after we did our Q and on episode
we talked ABOUTQ and on a recap of Q and
on the day after that is when the President was
asked on camera if he could have announced Q and
on and he said that they love me, you know that.
What's wrong with that? Yeah? Yeah, yeah. And so in

(35:15):
the wake of that, a few days later, and then
like I don't want to, like we don't need to
like pile on or whatever. Like a lot of people
seem to think it's a great idea to keep pushing
Trump on this, even though maybe it's a terrible idea
to let the president or even have anybody any anybody,
maybe don't broadcast Q and on to the entire nation

(35:35):
because you know what they're gonna google Q and on,
and you know how many people are gonna get into
it from that more than we want, which is, do
you guys remember when we had President George W. Bush
who invaded two countries and lead directly to the deaths
of hundreds of thousands of innocent people. That's a weird
way to say some huh. I mean, I don't know,

(35:58):
just like the fact that he was willing to even
vaguely talk down his supporters at one point when they
got to racist like, yeah, I'm not at the point yet.
I'm still I will say, I'm still not at the
point where I wanted to say that that Trump is
a worse president than George W. Bush. What I will
say is that Trump is a worst president than George W.

(36:20):
Bush when it comes to inciting violence, within the United States,
which again is not the whole picture, because George Bush
invaded two countries. Yeah, like the guy broadus um, Yeah,
but he's not doing what the president's doing currently well
And like some so like people have been suggesting, like

(36:41):
like what Jed leg him lug him uh during the debate,
legume during the debate should challenge Trump to denounce Q
and on terrible idea. Don't do that. I'm so glad
they know they're probably gonna do it in debate two
or three. If you're listening to this, Joe Biden, don't
fucking do that. Also, Medicare for All number three is
just gonna be Trump and Biden arguing about whether or

(37:03):
not JFK Jr. Is alive, right and and and Trump
will be like, no, of course not, because he was
his father was killed by Bernie Sanders. And then Joe
Biden will be like, actually was killed by Ted Cruz's dad.
But but Q and on. So I'm tying it back
to what Trump was saying up there. Yes, in the

(37:24):
context of this asking, Trump did announce anybody's a terrible
idea because what he's going to do is emboldened those people.
That's what he's going to do. Ultimately, don't ask him
to dennounce anybody. Stop it. But the we're gonna have
another one of these stupid fucking rallies where I live
and I we just barely made it. Well, I mean,

(37:46):
someone asked him, he literally asked him to denounce the
Proud Boys. I couldn't do it. He couldn't do that
stand down and stand by. Well, so what do you
What they started with was white supremacist, which was yeah,
and the right wing militia groups they said, and then
they were like, will be specific and like name one,

(38:08):
name one, because President Trump could couldn't possibly name one.
They said proud Boys, and his response was that they
should stand back and stand by, not stand down. And
I have seen I have seen a lot of people,
a lot of Heritage Center weirdos and like a lot
of like people in the conservative media being like, well

(38:28):
he said stand down, No, no, he said back and
then by he never said down. Um, And so that's
fucked up. First of all, So he's so, and that's
sure not how it's being like, we're watching the crowd
boys right now, I can see them. The first response
by by Joe Biggs, former Info Wars UH co host

(38:51):
and famous Proud Boy who I was within a few
feet of last weekend, Joe Biggs said, let me, let
me get let me pull up this exact quote for you.
So I'm being very fair to to Joe Biggs. Trump
basically said to go fuck them up. This makes me
so happy and two fifty six likes up votes at

(39:11):
the time. Enrico Tario, Enrique Tario, headed the Proud Boy,
said standing by, sir, So they're very ready, no go ahead, Uh, Enrique.
It's interesting how it's being framed because his response, UH
to telling the Proud Boy, he's told Trump proud boys

(39:32):
to stand by. I'm extremely proud of my guys right now.
A small group of men who aren't afraid of the
mob have accomplished so much. We have always stood back
and stood by America, and we will continue to do so.
There there, let me put my finger on Why that's wrong, Cody.
I can't put my finger on it because they broke
it with a baton because I was standing near them

(39:53):
with a camera and they wanted to hit me, and
then they assaulted me several more times with a shield.
Um so all right, but I was going to put
my finger on it. But all the violence, this is
voter suppression. It's telling also, I mean, it's inciting violence.
But what it's also doing is and I'm I when
I was doing campaigning for the mid term elections, I
think it was no, it was for the special Doug

(40:15):
Jones special Senate released I don't know. And I called
some woman and she said, is he really going to
be better? Is it worth risking my life to go
out there? She was a black woman. You know, I'm
scared right now for my husband to go to the
grocery store. Is it worth it for me to go
show up for this person? So that's the first thing

(40:36):
that I thought about, was that conversation. That's yeah, that's
something that completely depressing. I mean, and that's what he's
doing because not like he said when he said, stand
back and stand by, not stand down, stop saying that

(40:57):
your liars anyway. Uh. After he said that, he followed
he followed it up by saying, stand back and stand by,
but something needs to be done about Antifa. So not
only did he say to stop stop stop in quotes,
but he followed, like the end of his sentence was,
but something needs to happen. We need to do something
about them. And it is so baffling and frustrating that

(41:20):
there was no follow up at all at all. And
then twenty minutes later, after telling the Proud Boys to
stand back and stand by, twenty minutes later he said,
my people quote, my people need to go to the
polls and watch those are those are very related? Alarmingly related. Um, yeah,

(41:47):
he's being a criminal. He's a he's a thug, and
they're just letting him say that stuff on stage. Uh,
no one has learned anything, It's wild. I don't want
to say no one's learned anything, because there are some
signs and it is very early, right, so I don't
want to be making like comprehensive signs. There are some
early signs that some people who previously were part of

(42:08):
the problem might be part of the solution. One of
those people is Joe Biden, who so I posted, you know,
the comments that you were just quoting, some of them
at least from Enrique and from Joe Biggs. Like the
comment I quoted from Joe Biggs, I posted them. The
guy who beat me to them was Mike Baker, who's
a local Portland reporter. But who was a reporter, a
correspondent to the for the New York Times. And he's
a pretty good journalist. I respect my quite a bit. Um.

(42:31):
And he he posted a screen grab of those same conversations,
which Joe Biden tweeted. Joe Biden quote tweeted and said, this, Yeah,
just now, fifty three minutes ago, this, this is Donald
Trump's America. In addition to that, I am reading right
now from someone who I I I don't know, I

(42:53):
can I think is reasonably um reliable, somebody that I've
seen not be wrong in the future that I don't
think we'll be lying about this. The Jake Trapper called
the Proud Boys and Neil fascist group. Um. So what
I will say, I'm not glad that the Proud Boys
got any kind of because they will talk a little

(43:14):
bit about this week this last weekend they got, they got.
It was very embarrassing for them. I'm not proud that
they got anything to be to get excited about. But
the fact that a lot of previously kind of centrist
and milk toast folks might start to come out against
them now. Um, And because they've been sort of made
into a lightning rod, and and the fact that they'll

(43:35):
be probably a part of election interference has been very highlighted.
That's not necessarily a bad thing if people stay consistent
in this, and we'll see, because it might lead to
a bunch of people like Jake Tapper going and talking
to the Proud Boys and getting charmed by them because
they're dumbest shit, because Jake Tapper is a very dumb person.
Um tap Tapper's yeah bit done, like the both sides

(43:57):
stuff with Antifa, and like a lot of the really
like botch the Andy Nose story and stuff like that.
Mac Matt Matt Visor, who is a national political reporter
at the Washington Post and not someone I think would
tweet bullshit. I haven't got a chance to watch all
of Snion's coverage, but Matt Visor says that on CNN,
Jake Tapper said that was a hot mess, inside a

(44:17):
dumpster fire, inside a train wreck, that the American people
lost tonight because that was horrific, and then Dana Bash
added that was a ship show. So I don't know,
maybe people are learning finally at the eleventh fucking hour
because they should be terrified. I wrote an article Belling
Cat recently about the fucking militia networks that are setting

(44:39):
up in the Pacific Northwest and talking about like assassinating
our governor and killing leftists and forming death squads like
they're working on it right now. You ought to be scared.
You want to be taking deliberate, concerted action to deal
with your fear and as supposed to just being scared. Um,
I am not certain. Time will tell whether or not

(45:02):
it's a bad thing. Like obviously the fact that the
President is directly signaling to these people is bad. It is.
Time will tell whether or not it's a bad thing
that they got brought up because it might lead to
people galvanizing against the motherfucking Proud Boys who are a
threat as opposed to Antifa, who like trash cans on
fire in front of police stations. Mostly, I think that's

(45:24):
a really good point because they want people to have healthcare.
And Robert referenced a minute ago something that Joe Biden
retweeted and mentioned, and I just want to point out
that do you want to know what Trump is mentioning?
He's posting a photo of him versus Wallace and Biden
on his Twitter. That's what he's this, That's what he's

(45:44):
doing right now, he's posting about how he'd like Joe
Rogan to to do the debate as a moderator. That
those are the two things he's posted since the Also, uh,
seven hours seven hours ago, he emailed everybody, I just
debating Joe Biden. This debate will go down in history.
I showed the American people I will like it's like,

(46:05):
it's it's they're falling apart. It's it's a bummer. You
know who I fucking want to moderate one of these debates.
Who I actually would like to see because I don't
actually disagree that that that, Uh, Rogan would be the
like he'd be better than most presidential debate moderators have
been in our lifetimes. Not that I particularly want to
see him do it because he's not competent. Yeah, he'd

(46:28):
be better than Wallace was. I want to see Shepherd Smith.
Shepherd Smith. Yeah, a lot of critiques to make about
the man that are valid. Shepherd Smith has more of
a record than probably any other network TV host of
directly standing in front of Republican elected officials and spokespeople
and questioning them. Um, he's he's pretty good at this

(46:52):
within the context of a job that I don't think
is a good job that anyone should do. He's more
responsible with it than anyone else. Um, and I think
he'd be a good debate moderator. Do you think that
cutting his mike even is an option that would be amazing?
If he doesn't start, it needs to be from now,

(47:13):
something would be outraged by him being well, those are
the fucking rules that everybody decided on, agreed to. And
that's the thing. People have talked about this, like every
debate that happens, people talk about this, every primary debate,
peopill talk about like cut their mics. They're just arguing,
it's nonsense, this is hell. We're watching hell right now, um,
and actually being able to be like, it's not watching

(47:36):
these people. It's awful, unbearable. Every moment of tonight was
just like God, you couldn't hear either one of them
for most and like we're doing it. We're doing a
great job creating that for for our audience like this,
like I'm we're we're we're expressing our distaste for the
night by recreating it for you. Um, but my god,

(48:01):
just like cut their mics, I'm talking about us. Do
we want to end with an update on Portland. Are
you guys toast No, I can talk a little bit
about Portland's So I didn't sleep for the first three
days last week because I was work, or at least
I didn't sleep really um, because I received some leaked

(48:22):
chats from an anti fascist collective called Eugene Antifa um
of They had infiltrated and gained access to a group
called the Patriot Coalition, which is a far right insurgent
movement in the Pacific Northwest that has direct contact with
and is affiliated with the Proud Boys, another group called
American Wolf and with Patriot Prayer, who both more local UM.

(48:43):
In those chats, as we outlined in an article for
The Guardian that I wrote with Jason Wilson and four
Belling Cat that I also wrote with Jason uh, they
outlined plans to carry out night raids on anti fascist protests,
murdering people, their plans to attack a c l u
A observers and National Lawyers Guild Legal observers, their plans

(49:04):
to kill people they decided were anti FU during the
fires and throw their corpses into the fires, and their
plans to kill the Mayor of Portland and the Governor
of Oregon, UM, or at least their desire to do so,
would be more accurate to say so. We we published
this article and it had a pretty big influence, and
very soon after the governor declared a state of emergency
UM and announced that they would be pursuing paramilitary charges

(49:28):
against the Proud Boys if there were assaults committed during
the rally that occurred on the twenty six that everybody
was very worried about. And as a result, UM things were.
The police actually showed up and policed the Proud Boys there.
They cited a number of them, um criminally, they took
some of their guns, they took a number of other weapons,

(49:48):
they confiscated their shields. Now, obviously they were much more
brutal to anti fascist protesters later that night and to
journalists later that night, and the Proud Boys assaulted journalists
the same day. But they face some consequences, and there
was no massive gun fight between Antifa and Proud Boys
as people were worried about. And I there's a number
of things that that story says to me. One of

(50:09):
them is that, um, there's a small amount of credit
that Jason and I can take the Lion's share of
the credit goes to this anti fascist collective UM for
the credit for getting that story out that kind of
started the ball whirling on the government after four years
taking this seriously. It goes to local members of the
community who's worked together in a collective to highlight this

(50:34):
problem and publicize it UM, and it's it's kind of
a an endorsement of at least one of the tactics.
You know, anti fascists engaged in a number of tactics,
a number of which are critiquable that I don't know
are are super effective, But the bulk of what they
do is this kind of stuff. It's infiltration and research.
It's revealing what these people are saying and planning, and

(50:55):
more than anything, the work that they did and the
reaction that it received in the local from it and
the impact that had on this city in reducing violence
is an endorsement of a lot of the tactics that
they've engaged in. Now, there were a lot of other
things that were involved in the success this weekend. A
number of different activist groups planned rallies, the smallest of
which was still larger than the Proud Boy rally. UM.

(51:17):
There were a lot of different kind of safety teams
that came together, people who worked together to make uh
to to ensure that the Proud Boys were outnumbered on
the streets by counter protesters, and to ensure that things
did not proceed to a direct armed confrontation. So a
ton of people, all of whom like like, deserve a
lot of credit. Um, we're responsible for this not being

(51:40):
a horrific ship show. And I I I do, like,
I don't want to, I don't want to forget that,
but I think it's important as these groups are like
sort of increasingly, these kind of anti fascist groups are
increasingly demonized. To note, they revealed to the governor of
Oregon that people were talking about murdering her behind her back. Um,

(52:01):
there there was a police response to the Proud Boys
because of the work that these people, and this is
dangerous work. The person at least who infiltrated that that
group took a lot of risk on themselves that has
not been dissipated. They will be at risk for the
foreseeable future. And I I think with all of this

(52:24):
fucking talk about anti but most of which revolves around
people lighting random ship on fire or throwing fireworks or
the very occasional molotov. What most of them are actually
doing is risking their lives to bring people information that
makes their communities safer. And I yeah, that's the real

(52:44):
That's what nobody's saying, except for people like you or
you know, in the movement a bit more. But nobody's
doing the important job of saying, like, actually, look at
what this is. They're not trying to debunk the narrative. Yeah, no, there, um,
And I talk about this, you know, I've I've among
some people controversially gone and lectured to to counter terrorism

(53:09):
classes at American universities, UM, sometimes alongside members of federal
law enforcement agencies. And I will tell them, listen to
these people. They know what they're saying. And the body
count is very one sided, right, like one group is
committing all the murders. Here. You've got one fucking shooting
you can pin on Antifa, and there's a really fucking

(53:30):
good chance it was a legitimate self defense sheet. If
you're talking about the shooting of Date J. Danielson, which
came up in this debate. Um. Not that I'm willing
to go to bat on one side of that or
the other, because I haven't seen, like all of the
footage isn't available. It's uncertain as to whether or not
it was a justified shoot. I wouldn't call it an
act of terrorism. Um, we certainly haven't seen that kind
of evidence, whereas there's three hundreds something murders by white

(53:51):
supremacists in the last few years. Um, so yeah, I
don't know, Like like I don't know, Thank you Eugene
Antifa for looking out for other people in your state. Um,
and I don't know. Fuck the Donald Trump because he's
a dick. Yeah, that seems like a great way to
end this episode. Also, that's horrifying what you've Also. Vice

(54:14):
was wrong because they claimed in their article that was
making fun of the Proud Boys for having a disappointing
show up, that a thousand Proud Boys show up, we
have overshots. They were like fucking three of those sons
of bitches at the most and they kicked a dude
in the head for no reason. So fuck them. Um,
fuck the Proud Boys, Fuck the President, Donald Trump, Donald Trump, Yeah,

(54:37):
and embrace Satan. Sorry I said that out loud today. Um,
I just have no I screamed fuck Donald Trump, and
I was like, I don't know if they've ever actually
said that sentence before. And it's what I think every day,
and it fels so good to say, yeah, fuck them,
it's um. It's something that in regards to UM, I

(55:00):
see a lot of one. He sucks so bad. Um,
everyone's really worried about, like are we gonna get like
we're gonna vote him out? Like you're criticizing Joe Biden,
but are you gonna go for Roe for him? And
like all the Trump stuff. I really think that a
lot of that is going to dissipate as we get
closer and closer to the election, because Trump fucking sucks.

(55:21):
Everybody hates him. He's the most hateable man. He's a
real piece of ship. He sucks so much, sucks so
fucking bad. It's so easy to hate him and want
him to lose. You don't even have to like Joe Biden.
You can love the idea of him losing. Fuck him
so hard. And of course our authoritarian looks and talks
like him like yeah, embarrassing. Yeah, he's the most American

(55:47):
FASCI could possibly imagine. He's a ship authoritarian we could
possibly choose if you had, you have to guess in
the eighties. What a fascist American villain would be. It
would be Donald Trump. Would we improve that second? Yeah? Yeah,

(56:09):
a Meckis Brothers got This episode has got to end.
You know what else has to end, Katie. These deals
from our sponsors at Raytheon, who let me tell you, Katie, Katie,
you were telling me the other day, I've got to
go to a wedding in Afghanistan and I don't know

(56:30):
how to murder everyone who plans to attend. Oh, what
about a hell fire missile. I know you're saying. You're
saying I am allergic to traditional explosives. Well not hexagen, Katie,
You're not allergic to hexagen. So let's bring a hexagen
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people in Afghanistan at that wedding. Thank you, Rathel. Give

(56:53):
me a promo code and I'll be on board. Code
promo code. No marriages, and Raytheon's ideal future nobody gets married,
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(57:19):
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