November 10, 2021 • 11 mins
Couch Talks is the bonus episode of You Need Therapy where Kat(@kat.defatta), answers questions you send to kathryn@youneedtherapy.com. This week she talks about ways to help alleviate competition fueled by comparisons. She also spends some time explaining why Envy & Jealousy really aren't so bad. . . and how being jealous can actually be helpful.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hi guys, and welcome back to another new episode of
Couch Talks. My name is Kat and couch Talks is
the bonus episode of You Need Therapy, where I answer
questions that you guys send into me and if you
have a question, you can send it to Catherine at
You Need Therapy podcast dot com. Quick reminder up top
as always that yes, I'm answering these questions, and yes
(00:32):
I'm a therapist, that this is not therapy, and it's
just me talking about some stuff. So if you are
a regular listener of the show and you listen to
Monday's episode, you listen to some of the conclusions from
my social media experiment that I did where I unfollowed
everybody to see how that changed how I felt about
(00:54):
my life, how it changed how I used Instagram, how
it changed how I interacted with my friends. It just
wanted to know what would show up and how I
could learn to use Instagram in a better, healthier and
more helpful way. Because I love Instagram and I'm not
gonna go super into that. You can go back and
listen to that episode. But I did get a question
(01:15):
last night after a listener listened to it, and I
think It's something that I want to address now while
we're on the topic, because it is something that I
wish I would have talked about more in that episode.
So I'm going to read the question, and then of
course we keep it anonymous, and then we're gonna talk
about it. So the question is, Hi, Cat. I listened
to your podcasts from Monday about your social media break,
(01:36):
and I really enjoyed it. I also read your post
that you made on Instagram on Sunday before you released
the episode. I related to a lot of what you
were talking about when you spoke about how sometimes you
just don't want to see other people's highlights because it
reminds you of what you don't have. It sounds like
during the experiment you had a realization that even though
you don't have certain things, you also have a lot
(01:57):
of other, really wonderful things, and so it's easy year
for you to now not get caught up in the comparison.
I'm wondering if you can talk more about this. I'm
having a really hard time lately watching my friends and
family members continue to move through life milestones that I
desire very deeply, and I'm not even close to having them.
I don't want to come off as jealous or insensitive
or distant, but very often I can't even bring myself
(02:20):
to congratulate and celebrate my friends. I feel like a
bad person, And even writing this, I'm worried I'm coming
off as pathetic. I don't have a bad life, but
if I were to be honest, I would trade some
of my highlights for the things I keep seeing on Instagram.
How do I find more joy in my own life? Okay,
I'm so so glad that you asked this question and
want I just want to like give you a hug
(02:42):
because I feel some of that with you, and I
want to address this deeper because there's that one line
that you say. It seems like you had the realization
that even though you don't have certain things, you also
have a lot of other wonderful things, and it's easier
for you to not get caught up in the comparison
because of that. There's still an essence of comparison in that,
and I want to talk about that because that's really
not why it's easier for me to be on Instagram
(03:05):
and see people's highlights. It's not because I have things too,
And so I'm like Oh, I have things too, so
I'm not sad about that. I'm still sad about those things.
And I have things that I can share and be
grateful for and and live into as well. So it's
not a so, it's an and. But before we get
into the meat of all of this, I think it's
important to acknowledge that the mindset that I have, in
(03:26):
the mindset that we're talking about, in the belief systems
that I'm talking about, are things that we all have
to actively practice. Thinking it once or twice or reading
a post about it or hearing me talk about is helpful.
But to gain actual shifts in your own self, you
have to practice adjusting yourself talk and behavior. So don't
be too hard on yourself. If this doesn't automatically change
the way you live your life, it's something that you
(03:48):
might have to come up with, like almost like initiatives
to help shift your mindset in this and and and
change behaviors and yourself talk. So let's get into it,
and let's start with the idea of comparison. Like I
said on Monday, it's a very natural thing. And if
we peel back some layers, we can see that comparison
ends up pinning us against each other. Right, So there's
(04:08):
a competition. And in this case and the case that
I'm talking about, it's like there's a competition to win
at life. I can talk for my own experience where
it feels like to win at life would mean like
you get married and then you have a kid, and
you have this job, and you make this much money,
and you go on these trips and you're you wear
the size pants and you look like this, and your
family does this, and I mean there's different things based
(04:31):
on like where you live and in the culture you're
immersed in that we feel like we're supposed to do
and if you do those things, you're winning. And if
you do them faster than you're winning even more. So
we can deconstruct that as well, but we're not gonna
get into that. But automatically, comparison is creating a competition, right.
So Instagram often makes it feel like there's competition the
way it's set up, the likes of views and all
(04:51):
of them. And I believe that we can choose to
not participate in this. We can choose to not participate
in the competitive aspect of Instagram. It takes work. We
can choose to look at people celebrating their lives as
separate from our lives. And it's difficult because this isn't
the automatic response, but it is possible, and a way
to begin to invite this idea and is to invite
(05:13):
the idea of dialectics. In so this is the idea
that two things can be true at the same time
that kind of like don't make sense, like to opposite
things can be true at the same time. And I
talked about this a lot, but it never gets old
because it's always important to remember, Like it's always important
to remember. This idea that oh I can be happy
and sad at the same time, Oh I can be
(05:36):
angry and grateful at the same time, Oh I can
be hurt and joyful at the same time. Doesn't make
a lot of sense, but it takes the idea of
all or nothing out because life isn't black and white,
and our feelings aren't black and white. So I can
be really happy for someone, and I can be really
sad for myself at the same time. I also can
be really happy for myself and really sad for myself
(05:59):
at this same time. I can love a lot of
things about my life and really be hurt at the
same time, Like it's not all or nothing. So inviting
that idea in really helps get us away from this
spot where like, oh, I don't have that and they do. Oh,
I guess that I have to be sad because I
want that, and I can't be happy for them, right
(06:21):
because I'm sad for myself. No, I can be happy
for them and sad for myself, and at the same
time I can be grateful for some of the stuff
in my life too, Like there's a whole like triangle there.
I can celebrate someone's success and be jealous of it
at the same time. Those things don't cancel each other
out either, And jealousy. Let's talk about this, because jealousy
(06:42):
doesn't have to be a bad thing. In the email,
this listener writes, I'm having a really hard time lately
watching my friends and family members continue to move through
life's milestones that I desire very deeply that I'm not
close to. I don't want to come off as jealous
or insensitive and distant, but very often I can't even
myself to congratulate and celebrate my friends. I would say,
(07:02):
what do you want to be jealous? Why don't you
want to come off with jealous what's wrong with jealousy?
Because jealousy gets a bad reputation, and I think it's
because we don't like it, so then we don't want
to talk about it or admit that we feel it,
So then it turns into resentment and spite. And quite honestly,
we're taught that envy and jealousy those are sins. By
having envy, we are being ungrateful. I think is something
(07:24):
also that comes up, and that's not the case. Ungrateful
and jealous and envy don't all have to live in
the same spot. This also speaks into some of what
we've talked about lately about shame, you know how like
the less we talk about shame, the more you have it,
and the more you talk about it, the less you have.
I think that this is important to talk about with
(07:45):
with jealousy too. So if we don't want to have
it because it's a bad thing, we tell people it's
a bad thing, so we can't talk about it. But
then what it just it doesn't make it go away,
It just turns it into something else, just like not
talking about shame doesn't make it go away, just lets
it grow, and I think that not talking about jealousy
ends up creating this like big blanket of shame. So
(08:05):
then I'm jealous and I'm shameful, and then I'm resentful
that I'm flightful not helpful. And I know that I
feel jealous and envy when someone has something that I
want and that's okay, Like I want you to know
that that's okay, And maybe I'm ungrateful some of those
moments short because I can be an ungrateful person at times,
but there's also a huge possibility that I'm not. It's
(08:28):
actually a super helpful experience to have. If I can
acknowledge some envy and jealousy, then I can say, hey,
I want that that's important to me. What can I
do to help lead me to a place where having
that thing is possible? And what am I doing that
might deter me from getting those things? And sometimes there
isn't a lot we can do, Like you can't just
like work your way to finding a partner. And I
(08:51):
do think acknowledging is important because there could be things
that you're not doing or things that you're doing that
are setting yourself up to be available or unavailable to
those things, and so I do think there's power and
acknowledging it because there's sometimes is something we can do.
And Glenn and Doyle actually talks about this idea of
envy and jealousy being helpful a lot, which I really appreciate.
(09:12):
So she talks about this idea of envy and jealousy
being a good thing and not something that's like only
a part of unhealthy people often, which I really appreciate.
And she talks about how she used to think that
secure women believed in abundance and so that that's why
they lifted everybody up, and then insecure women were jealous
and that's why they tore people down. And then she
(09:34):
learned that all the strong women were jealous as well,
and the difference was that the insecure women mass their
insecurity by tearing women down, and then the more wise
strong women mass their insecurity by raising other people up.
And so it's not that it's bad if you have it,
everybody has it. We have to look at how we're
using it. Right, So how am I going to use
(09:56):
these feelings that I have. I can use them for good,
I can use them for evil. And I think of
envy and jealousy as less of a sin and more
as a part of our human feeling toolkit. So you asked,
how can I find more joy? Right? So, I think
it starts with being honest. The more I can be
honest about what I'm feeling, the better chance I have
to be led to what I desire, and the less
(10:17):
I'm going to shut myself down. It's a difference between
playing defense and offense in your own life and going
back to the idea of the competition. When I play defense,
I'm hiding right, I'm trying to make it look like
I'm okay. I'm trying to look make it look like
I'm not feeling these things. I'm trying to make it
look like I don't have these parts of my life
when I do, and that takes a lot of energy,
(10:38):
a lot. And when I'm playing offense, I'm showing up
ready and I'm showing up open. It's hard, but I'm
showing up ready. I'm showing up open. And what we
have to remember in this idea is that we can
all play offense at the same time. There doesn't have
to be a defense and offense in this game because
there's no real competition and it's okay if everybody scores,
and it doesn't matter who scores first, like we'll hang
(10:59):
out here to everybody scores. There's no time clock, there's nothing,
there's not none of that. But we create these ideas
in our heads based off of societal norms. But norms
don't mean that they're the truth. A light in the way.
Challenge the norms because they're can be power. There can
be power in not having something, yet it doesn't mean
you're not going to get it. So I hope this
(11:21):
was helpful, and I really want to thank the person
that wrote this question and send this email in because
this is an important thing to continue to talk about
and continue to wander through and continue to work on.
So that's kind of where we're going to end it today.
And I'm totally open to more questions about this because
it's something I really like talking about um and something
that I've had to work on in my own life.
(11:42):
So I'm not just an expert telling you what I
think based on my research from a lab. I'm a
human telling you how I feel based on being a human.
So with that, I hope you guys have the day
you need to have, and I will talk to you
guys on Monday.
Hi guys, and welcome back to another new episode of
Couch Talks. My name is Kat and couch Talks is
the bonus episode of You Need Therapy, where I answer
questions that you guys send into me and if you
have a question, you can send it to Catherine at
You Need Therapy podcast dot com. Quick reminder up top
as always that yes, I'm answering these questions, and yes
(00:32):
I'm a therapist, that this is not therapy, and it's
just me talking about some stuff. So if you are
a regular listener of the show and you listen to
Monday's episode, you listen to some of the conclusions from
my social media experiment that I did where I unfollowed
everybody to see how that changed how I felt about
(00:54):
my life, how it changed how I used Instagram, how
it changed how I interacted with my friends. It just
wanted to know what would show up and how I
could learn to use Instagram in a better, healthier and
more helpful way. Because I love Instagram and I'm not
gonna go super into that. You can go back and
listen to that episode. But I did get a question
(01:15):
last night after a listener listened to it, and I
think It's something that I want to address now while
we're on the topic, because it is something that I
wish I would have talked about more in that episode.
So I'm going to read the question, and then of
course we keep it anonymous, and then we're gonna talk
about it. So the question is, Hi, Cat. I listened
to your podcasts from Monday about your social media break,
(01:36):
and I really enjoyed it. I also read your post
that you made on Instagram on Sunday before you released
the episode. I related to a lot of what you
were talking about when you spoke about how sometimes you
just don't want to see other people's highlights because it
reminds you of what you don't have. It sounds like
during the experiment you had a realization that even though
you don't have certain things, you also have a lot
(01:57):
of other, really wonderful things, and so it's easy year
for you to now not get caught up in the comparison.
I'm wondering if you can talk more about this. I'm
having a really hard time lately watching my friends and
family members continue to move through life milestones that I
desire very deeply, and I'm not even close to having them.
I don't want to come off as jealous or insensitive
or distant, but very often I can't even bring myself
(02:20):
to congratulate and celebrate my friends. I feel like a
bad person, And even writing this, I'm worried I'm coming
off as pathetic. I don't have a bad life, but
if I were to be honest, I would trade some
of my highlights for the things I keep seeing on Instagram.
How do I find more joy in my own life? Okay,
I'm so so glad that you asked this question and
want I just want to like give you a hug
(02:42):
because I feel some of that with you, and I
want to address this deeper because there's that one line
that you say. It seems like you had the realization
that even though you don't have certain things, you also
have a lot of other wonderful things, and it's easier
for you to not get caught up in the comparison
because of that. There's still an essence of comparison in that,
and I want to talk about that because that's really
not why it's easier for me to be on Instagram
(03:05):
and see people's highlights. It's not because I have things too,
And so I'm like Oh, I have things too, so
I'm not sad about that. I'm still sad about those things.
And I have things that I can share and be
grateful for and and live into as well. So it's
not a so, it's an and. But before we get
into the meat of all of this, I think it's
important to acknowledge that the mindset that I have, in
(03:26):
the mindset that we're talking about, in the belief systems
that I'm talking about, are things that we all have
to actively practice. Thinking it once or twice or reading
a post about it or hearing me talk about is helpful.
But to gain actual shifts in your own self, you
have to practice adjusting yourself talk and behavior. So don't
be too hard on yourself. If this doesn't automatically change
the way you live your life, it's something that you
(03:48):
might have to come up with, like almost like initiatives
to help shift your mindset in this and and and
change behaviors and yourself talk. So let's get into it,
and let's start with the idea of comparison. Like I
said on Monday, it's a very natural thing. And if
we peel back some layers, we can see that comparison
ends up pinning us against each other. Right, So there's
(04:08):
a competition. And in this case and the case that
I'm talking about, it's like there's a competition to win
at life. I can talk for my own experience where
it feels like to win at life would mean like
you get married and then you have a kid, and
you have this job, and you make this much money,
and you go on these trips and you're you wear
the size pants and you look like this, and your
family does this, and I mean there's different things based
(04:31):
on like where you live and in the culture you're
immersed in that we feel like we're supposed to do
and if you do those things, you're winning. And if
you do them faster than you're winning even more. So
we can deconstruct that as well, but we're not gonna
get into that. But automatically, comparison is creating a competition, right.
So Instagram often makes it feel like there's competition the
way it's set up, the likes of views and all
(04:51):
of them. And I believe that we can choose to
not participate in this. We can choose to not participate
in the competitive aspect of Instagram. It takes work. We
can choose to look at people celebrating their lives as
separate from our lives. And it's difficult because this isn't
the automatic response, but it is possible, and a way
to begin to invite this idea and is to invite
(05:13):
the idea of dialectics. In so this is the idea
that two things can be true at the same time
that kind of like don't make sense, like to opposite
things can be true at the same time. And I
talked about this a lot, but it never gets old
because it's always important to remember, Like it's always important
to remember. This idea that oh I can be happy
and sad at the same time, Oh I can be
(05:36):
angry and grateful at the same time, Oh I can
be hurt and joyful at the same time. Doesn't make
a lot of sense, but it takes the idea of
all or nothing out because life isn't black and white,
and our feelings aren't black and white. So I can
be really happy for someone, and I can be really
sad for myself at the same time. I also can
be really happy for myself and really sad for myself
(05:59):
at this same time. I can love a lot of
things about my life and really be hurt at the
same time, Like it's not all or nothing. So inviting
that idea in really helps get us away from this
spot where like, oh, I don't have that and they do. Oh,
I guess that I have to be sad because I
want that, and I can't be happy for them, right
(06:21):
because I'm sad for myself. No, I can be happy
for them and sad for myself, and at the same
time I can be grateful for some of the stuff
in my life too, Like there's a whole like triangle there.
I can celebrate someone's success and be jealous of it
at the same time. Those things don't cancel each other
out either, And jealousy. Let's talk about this, because jealousy
(06:42):
doesn't have to be a bad thing. In the email,
this listener writes, I'm having a really hard time lately
watching my friends and family members continue to move through
life's milestones that I desire very deeply that I'm not
close to. I don't want to come off as jealous
or insensitive and distant, but very often I can't even
myself to congratulate and celebrate my friends. I would say,
(07:02):
what do you want to be jealous? Why don't you
want to come off with jealous what's wrong with jealousy?
Because jealousy gets a bad reputation, and I think it's
because we don't like it, so then we don't want
to talk about it or admit that we feel it,
So then it turns into resentment and spite. And quite honestly,
we're taught that envy and jealousy those are sins. By
having envy, we are being ungrateful. I think is something
(07:24):
also that comes up, and that's not the case. Ungrateful
and jealous and envy don't all have to live in
the same spot. This also speaks into some of what
we've talked about lately about shame, you know how like
the less we talk about shame, the more you have it,
and the more you talk about it, the less you have.
I think that this is important to talk about with
(07:45):
with jealousy too. So if we don't want to have
it because it's a bad thing, we tell people it's
a bad thing, so we can't talk about it. But
then what it just it doesn't make it go away,
It just turns it into something else, just like not
talking about shame doesn't make it go away, just lets
it grow, and I think that not talking about jealousy
ends up creating this like big blanket of shame. So
(08:05):
then I'm jealous and I'm shameful, and then I'm resentful
that I'm flightful not helpful. And I know that I
feel jealous and envy when someone has something that I
want and that's okay, Like I want you to know
that that's okay, And maybe I'm ungrateful some of those
moments short because I can be an ungrateful person at times,
but there's also a huge possibility that I'm not. It's
(08:28):
actually a super helpful experience to have. If I can
acknowledge some envy and jealousy, then I can say, hey,
I want that that's important to me. What can I
do to help lead me to a place where having
that thing is possible? And what am I doing that
might deter me from getting those things? And sometimes there
isn't a lot we can do, Like you can't just
like work your way to finding a partner. And I
(08:51):
do think acknowledging is important because there could be things
that you're not doing or things that you're doing that
are setting yourself up to be available or unavailable to
those things, and so I do think there's power and
acknowledging it because there's sometimes is something we can do.
And Glenn and Doyle actually talks about this idea of
envy and jealousy being helpful a lot, which I really appreciate.
(09:12):
So she talks about this idea of envy and jealousy
being a good thing and not something that's like only
a part of unhealthy people often, which I really appreciate.
And she talks about how she used to think that
secure women believed in abundance and so that that's why
they lifted everybody up, and then insecure women were jealous
and that's why they tore people down. And then she
(09:34):
learned that all the strong women were jealous as well,
and the difference was that the insecure women mass their
insecurity by tearing women down, and then the more wise
strong women mass their insecurity by raising other people up.
And so it's not that it's bad if you have it,
everybody has it. We have to look at how we're
using it. Right, So how am I going to use
(09:56):
these feelings that I have. I can use them for good,
I can use them for evil. And I think of
envy and jealousy as less of a sin and more
as a part of our human feeling toolkit. So you asked,
how can I find more joy? Right? So, I think
it starts with being honest. The more I can be
honest about what I'm feeling, the better chance I have
to be led to what I desire, and the less
(10:17):
I'm going to shut myself down. It's a difference between
playing defense and offense in your own life and going
back to the idea of the competition. When I play defense,
I'm hiding right, I'm trying to make it look like
I'm okay. I'm trying to look make it look like
I'm not feeling these things. I'm trying to make it
look like I don't have these parts of my life
when I do, and that takes a lot of energy,
(10:38):
a lot. And when I'm playing offense, I'm showing up
ready and I'm showing up open. It's hard, but I'm
showing up ready. I'm showing up open. And what we
have to remember in this idea is that we can
all play offense at the same time. There doesn't have
to be a defense and offense in this game because
there's no real competition and it's okay if everybody scores,
and it doesn't matter who scores first, like we'll hang
(10:59):
out here to everybody scores. There's no time clock, there's nothing,
there's not none of that. But we create these ideas
in our heads based off of societal norms. But norms
don't mean that they're the truth. A light in the way.
Challenge the norms because they're can be power. There can
be power in not having something, yet it doesn't mean
you're not going to get it. So I hope this
(11:21):
was helpful, and I really want to thank the person
that wrote this question and send this email in because
this is an important thing to continue to talk about
and continue to wander through and continue to work on.
So that's kind of where we're going to end it today.
And I'm totally open to more questions about this because
it's something I really like talking about um and something
that I've had to work on in my own life.
(11:42):
So I'm not just an expert telling you what I
think based on my research from a lab. I'm a
human telling you how I feel based on being a human.
So with that, I hope you guys have the day
you need to have, and I will talk to you
guys on Monday.
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