December 7, 2023 • 24 mins
A misunderstanding from a decade ago has caused a rift between cousins that grew up in wildly different socioeconomic backgrounds. Nedra walks us through how to control and mange envy in relationships.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, listeners, welcome back. I'm nedrig Glover to wib and
you need to hear this. Sometimes when there is an
issue of envy or jealousy, I often wonder do we
think that they're better than us? Or are we feeling inferior?
(00:23):
When I hear the statement they think they're better than me,
or they think that they have this and I don't
have that, where does that come from? Are they actually
saying it, I'm better than you because I have this car?
Or is it how we may feel because we see
someone with something. Today's letter comes from a person who
(00:48):
is dealing with envy and jealousy in their family, which
you know, I think is far more common than we
may discuss. It can happen with siblings, It can happen
mother to daughter, It can happen father to son, so
on and so forth. There are times when we envy
(01:10):
what a person has. We can envy a person's spirit
or personality. We can even envy the way that they're
treated by other people. You know, this letter reminds me
of a situation that I've had with a loved one
where I didn't think I was doing anything in particular,
(01:31):
but they will start making these comments like.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Oh, you think you're better because you have.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
A new necklace, and I'm like, don't you just asked
me what I got from my birthday and I said
a necklace, and that person started to take it as
you know, maybe I was showboting, but I really think
what it was they didn't have a necklace. There was
nothing being done or said. I wasn't wearing my necklace
and saying hey, I have a necklace, I'm better than you,
(01:58):
or hey, look at my necklace, you don't even have one.
None of that was happening. It was the sheer fact
that I had this thing that they did not have.
So sometimes when people are jealous or envious, there is
nothing you're doing. There is nothing you can do to
make the situation better. It's really personal. It is something
(02:22):
that they have to deal with. It's not anything that
you can change for them. I see it as a
very deep wound of worthiness. Let's listen to today's letter.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Hi there. Ten years ago, my cousin accused me of
saying something that I didn't say to make people think
I look down on her because of where she lived.
She grew up in poverty, and my siblings and I
have always lived in nice neighborhoods. For the most part,
I hadn't seen her in years, but she often wrote
me on Facebook about every two years to catch up.
(03:01):
Once I invited everyone to get together, she and her
brother started attacking our family online, publicly stating that tables
have turned sending threats and basically trying to start a
fight with my sisters and I because they were mad
that I started a group message to ask if anybody
wanted to get together to catch up. This letter started
(03:21):
with a sentence that jarred me. Right, they accuse me
of something that I didn't say, and I immediately thought, oh,
the defensiveness in that statement. So let's say that someone
believes that we did something and we don't think we
did it. We may want to hear them out. Not
(03:42):
that we have to agree, like, yes, okay, I said it,
but if we are wanting to repair a relationship, we
might not want to talk about how whatever they're thinking
is untrue. We can explore this idea with them. What
I tend to see is there is some misunderstanding in
(04:05):
what was said. So it may be that you didn't
say the thing that they thought you said, but maybe
something was said, and there was a loud radio up
and they thought this word was that word? You know,
like maybe there's something else there. So if we're wanting
to repair a situation, we really have to think about
(04:26):
how we're looking at the situation. Saying to someone I
didn't say that will automatically put them on guard. If
you're wanting to repair, do not start there. What is
it you think I said? Tell me what happened according
to your perspective of things. And listen, now you're saying,
(04:51):
you know, I really didn't have any issue with them
growing up in poverty, and my siblings didn't have any
issue with it. You know, we lived in a nice neighborhood,
socio economic status, whether it is you know, in a
family and a friendship at work. It's divisive, like just
(05:12):
the idea of it, your stuff is better than my stuff.
And again, you know, where does the idea of better
come from. It can be us, It could be other
situations where we start to have these ideas about people
who have more or less. This is poverty. This is
how they do things. This is how they do things.
(05:33):
I find it really interesting with kids when there's a
lack of compassion around the differences and our lack of control.
You know, for children who grow up in a nice
neighborhood or in an inner city or an impoverished environment,
none of that was their choice. They're born into a family,
(05:54):
and this is the circumstance in which they're given. So
if you're talking about children, you know, it's always interesting
when it goes back to I'm mad at you for
having this thing when we were ten years old. I'm
mad at you for doing this thing when we were eight.
We were children, you know, so much of this stuff
(06:15):
that we're now fighting about as adults, so many of
these ideas we have about our situation, we didn't have
any power and control over. It was our parents. And
I wonder, in this situation with your cousin, what were
the parents doing to make it more of a compassionate environment.
(06:37):
Was there any you know, maybe from your parents like
those are your poor cousins, or maybe from their side,
this is your rich and uncle, like what was being said,
Because I'm gathering that the language you're using, and that
you probably used a lot of in childhood is coming
from the adults. Because children, if it were from them,
(07:01):
I've seen children just be a little more compassionate in
their language of describing others. So I wonder, is this
you know, some of this stuff shaped by the perspective
of the elders in the family and not necessarily your
own stuff.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Let's keep listening.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
After that happened, I blocked her and her brother online
because it was clear that they had envied us since
we were kids, but we just never knew they felt
that way about us. I ran into the Maile cousin
a few months later. He apologized and we agreed to
disagree that the family never treated them like charity.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
What I find interesting here is the family never treated
him like a charity. Let's say it's true that you
all had things that you donated to them, or you
gave to them, right like maybe close you out grew,
or some furniture or accessories, or you paid for dinner.
Let's say that those things are true. It wouldn't be
(08:01):
a problem if their perspective about it wasn't that of
we're a charity case. Could it have been seen as
help I wonder how that situation can be reframed, because
it is quite possible that they felt like a charity
case because not only were you all offering them things.
(08:25):
I'm sure that there were other people in their community,
maybe their school, offering things. I went to a school
and I remember at Christmas time they would have like
these good Fellow boxes and if you were of a
certain income bracket, you would get this box and it
had like, gosh, I don't even remember, but you know,
like a toy and some you know, stuff for a
(08:45):
kid if you were of a certain income bracket. So
just receiving that box, you could say, oh my gosh,
I got a gift for Christmas. Or this organization sees
me as a charity case. So it's really based on
your perspective. Often we hand things on when we can't
use them anymore. Is that charity or is it giving?
(09:08):
I just this week, I've given away three bags of
stuff from my house because I don't want it anymore.
I can't fit it, my kids can't use it. It
no longer has a space. I am regifting, I am rehoming.
I am not doing this, you know, to be you know,
(09:31):
like oh my gosh, I'm better than them, or this
sort of thing. It's like, my children can't fit these clothes.
Is there a person or a place maybe saying tax
bracket as me or a different tax bracket. Who would
be willing to pick these clothes up from my home
so they can have this size?
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Right?
Speaker 1 (09:52):
So your children can have this size? Are your children
interested in legos? Are your children interested in you know,
some of these clothes or things that we have. The
way that we view what we're doing for others and
the way that they view what they're receiving, and how
is really important here it's charity or it's a gift.
(10:13):
It's charity, or it's rehoming. It's charity or it's help.
We don't have the power to shape that meaning for
other people. And I hear with your cousins the dispute
has been around meaning it didn't mean that, but for
them it did. And that is much bigger than what
(10:37):
happened with you. It's probably in many instances. I don't
know how you know farthest goes for them or how
big this thing is for them, Like how many times
have they received things from other people? It's not just
you a near world, you know, it's other family members,
as I said, it's churches, is all sorts of things.
If they were in an environment where they're all always
(11:00):
asking people for stuff. You are a charity to them.
They were treated like a charity. They didn't like it.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
It sounds like.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
They wish they were able to afford these things. So
as they're saying these things and using this language, I
want you to just pause. From their perspective, Could it
be true? Not from your perspective, not from your parents' perspective,
not from this place of defensiveness, but from their perspective,
(11:32):
as children who needed things, who wanted things.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Could it be true for them? I think so, you know,
I think so.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Our world is shaped by what we experience, and we
experience things in many different places.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Let's keep listening. We decided it would be fine if
we started inviting each other to our kids' birthday parties,
since we both had kids the same age. After going
to his child's birthday, the male cousin mugged me and
ignored me each time I tried speaking to him. My
sister wants to keep having a relationship with them, but
I have decided not to. What do you think of
(12:10):
this situation? Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Hm. You know, this sounds like a very deep wound
for them, and it's something that your cousin has to
be willing to deal with. When people feel jealous or
envious of other people, what I see us trying to
(12:37):
do is make them feel better. You know, they feel
really bad. I have this car, so I'm going to
drive my old, raggedy car. I'm going to pretend to
not have what I have. I'm not going to tell
them about this promotion I just got. I won't tell
them about this thing because we're trying to make them
feel better, right Like, I want them to feel better
(13:00):
about this thing, when in actuality, it's their work to do.
When they feel bad, you get jealous, you feel envious
about stuff I know I do. I'm not going to
sit on here and say, oh, I've never felt jealous
or envious. I have.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
I can tell you a thousand stories about it.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
You know, there are times when I'm like, oh, that
is so nice that that person has that type of relationship,
or they have that thing, or they have this life
experience that I haven't had. But when you're doing some
work with yourself, when you're in therapy, when you're journaling,
(13:36):
when you're in community with people of all different walks
of life, you're able to see, like, I really love
that for them, and it's okay for me to have
a little oh and then go back to I am
okay as I am. Some of us don't have that
because we're not doing any of that work, and so
(13:57):
when we see people with stuff, we even try to
get it, you know, I know we do that as
we're browsing social medium and we see this new influencer.
Oh my gosh, look at her bag. I gotta get
that same bag. Where does she get that back? Or
oh my gosh, look at her family. I have to
get her family. Look at her candles. I have to
get her candles, look at his stuff. Blah blah blah blah.
You know, we immediately try to capture it as a
(14:20):
way to minimize that feeling. But I think what's really
helpful is to sit with that and wonder why why
do I feel like I need to get rid of it?
Why do I feel like this is the solution. Why
am I not able to look at stuff and say
that is so nice? That candle is so nice for them,
(14:43):
But I don't need anymore. You know, the last candle
I had it had too much soot and mess my
walls up.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
That's a true story.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
I had a candle that just well, But how do
we look at what other people have and love that
for them? How do we address those loans of for
twenty years, this person thought this about me, and this
is you know, they thought I was poor, they thought
(15:09):
I was this thing.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Is it true?
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Are we willing to be in conversation with people to
really find out what they thought? Not based on assumption?
But how did you see us when we were growing up?
What did you think about the differences in our financial status?
What did you think about your parents giving us stuff? Well,
this is how I felt about it. You know, until
(15:33):
we can get into those conversations, we can't get through
these issues. But the person who is feeling the envy
and the jealousy, they have to be willing to do
the work because it's their work to do. And minimizing
your success, dimming your life, pretending you don't have stuff.
You know, some of these things we do to help
(15:54):
them feel better, it's not really helpful, because what's helpful
is you figuring out how to deal with the discomfort
of a feeling that many of us will have over
and over and over about different things. If I could
just name a list, if I'm being honest, right now, like, ugh,
what are the last few things I've envy? I am
(16:15):
a I don't even want to use the word envy
because I feel like maybe it doesn't have any anks
to it. It doesn't have any like, oh I want
to get them. But I have felt like wow in
all of people who can do things that I can't do,
like make their own commucha, you know, make a fresh
holiday wreath, you know, people who can do floral arrangements,
(16:39):
people who have you know, sports cars, people who have
you know, like all.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Of these things.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
It's like, oh my god, look at this thing. But
I wonder, also, how can I learn those things? If
I really want those things for myself?
Speaker 2 (16:53):
How can I figure out how to make computia? What
tutorials do I need to watch to figure out out
how to make that flower arrangement? And there are a
lot of things that I just have to say that
is really good for them. I don't I don't even
want to take the time and energy to ferment a
fruit ever, you know, I just I really just want
(17:16):
to go buy it.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
But I'm still really amazed that you can do it.
Thank you for doing it, so I can buy it?
Right Like, there are other ways for us to you know,
support people even when we really love those things. And
you know, it takes a really special person to show
up in your life and they have a desire for
that thing, but they're able to work through their stuff
(17:40):
to be in relationship with you. That is top tier
self care that they're doing. And we can all really
do that work when we are intentional, but many of
us are not. We're like, I'm jealous this other person
has to do less, be less. They can't talk to
me about their stuff, or I'm going to be really
upset about it.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
We have to do the work.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
To be able to withstand someone having stuff, with someone
being a certain way, or you know, having certain successes
in life. Everything is not for us. But when we
lead with unhealthy feelings towards people, it doesn't clear the
(18:23):
path for our goodness. It doesn't clear a path for
us to attract the things that we could have. You know,
I spoke earlier about the situation with the necklace. I
think that was you know, my situation with like the necklace,
(18:45):
like oh you got a necklace or you know, but
it evolved, you know it. I think in relationships, it
just goes from one thing to the next. If we're
not able, it's oh my gosh, you have a necklace.
Oh yeah, whatever, you got a new job. You know,
it really taints the relationship because the person on the
(19:06):
receiving side is like, well, I don't want to tell
this person anything. I don't want to invite them to
my stuff. Like I want to be in relationship with people.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Who are happy for me.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
So if you notice, you know, in either direction, if
you're the person who's like, oh, this is how I
act when I feel envious, we have to do the
work of being able to be in relationships with people
when they have things that we may want or desire.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
We have to mind our mouth.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
You know.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Sometimes we are making comments that, oh, that must be
nice for you. You know what comment I love to say
right now, I love that for you. And that's the
way I say I love that for you, because the
way we say it matters. I love that for you.
Please don't say that you want to make sure that
you I love that for you, because you know, there
(19:58):
are some things I'm just like, oh, that is so
amazing you're going on that trip. I do love that
for you because you're a great human being. I don't
think you don't deserve to go on a trip. Now
I want to go on a trip, but I think
you deserve to go on a trip. I don't think
we have to pick right now who gets to go.
Clearly it's you, so I don't need to say you
(20:19):
wish it was me.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
You're going.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
I can be in this moment with you. If that's
a trip I really want to go on, I will
figure it out. What I find is, as we are
trying to live the life of other people get these
things that they have, acquire the accouterments of what we
think of as their happiness, it doesn't feel so good
(20:44):
when we get it. It doesn't feel the way that
we thought it would. It doesn't give us the level
of pleasure that it probably gave them. Why it's not
ours to have. We're not supposed to have every single
thing that another person has. We're not supposed to live
(21:05):
the life of other people. Your story is your story,
and your cousin's story that is their story. I hear
you saying you don't want to have the relationship, and
I get that. You know when someone has these deep
issues with you that it sounds like has nothing to
do with anything you can control in childhood. It's no
(21:28):
longer it's not your work to do. This is work
that they need to do in order to be in
a relationship with a person that they have this view of.
So I'm going back to the question that I asked
at the top of this. Do they think they're better
or do we feel inferior? I want you to think
(21:49):
about that. You need to hear this. Envy and jealousy
are normal emotions. What makes those emotions unhealthy is how
we respond to them in our relationships with other people.
(22:10):
We can feel jealous, we can feel envious, but it's
not always appropriate to make mean comments. It's not always
appropriate to bring up past incidents and talk about how
they were this and you were that, or to tell
people how they don't deserve it or you want it.
Those are the things that you may not want to
(22:32):
do when you feel discomfort around what other people have
or who they are. If you're dealing with jealousy or envy,
which many of us are, you know, if we're really
being honest, there is something that we have been like, ugh,
even this week, even today. Get clear about what your
(22:53):
stuff is. Make an envy list, make a list and
just say this is my stuff when this comes up
with people, not when it comes up with me, but
when it comes up with people. Uh, these are the
things that kind of poke at me because I wish
I had those things. Get clear about that so when
it happens you have a level of awareness, it's not shocking.
(23:16):
Maybe your thing is, you know, people who grew up
in certain financial backgrounds. Maybe your thing is people who
drive certain types of cars. Maybe your thing is people
who live in tiny houses. I don't know, but you
have a thing. Be aware of what your thing is.
(23:42):
You need to hear. This is an iHeart production. Host
it by me Ndra Glover to wob Our executive producer
is Joe l Vodique. Our senior producer and editor is
Mia don Taylor. Send us a voice memo with your
questions about boundaries and relationships. You need to hear this
at iHeartMedia dot com. Please be sure to rate our
(24:06):
show wherever you listen to it, and share this episode
with someone who needs to hear this.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Talk to you next time.
Hi, listeners, welcome back. I'm nedrig Glover to wib and
you need to hear this. Sometimes when there is an
issue of envy or jealousy, I often wonder do we
think that they're better than us? Or are we feeling inferior?
(00:23):
When I hear the statement they think they're better than me,
or they think that they have this and I don't
have that, where does that come from? Are they actually
saying it, I'm better than you because I have this car?
Or is it how we may feel because we see
someone with something. Today's letter comes from a person who
(00:48):
is dealing with envy and jealousy in their family, which
you know, I think is far more common than we
may discuss. It can happen with siblings, It can happen
mother to daughter, It can happen father to son, so
on and so forth. There are times when we envy
(01:10):
what a person has. We can envy a person's spirit
or personality. We can even envy the way that they're
treated by other people. You know, this letter reminds me
of a situation that I've had with a loved one
where I didn't think I was doing anything in particular,
(01:31):
but they will start making these comments like.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Oh, you think you're better because you have.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
A new necklace, and I'm like, don't you just asked
me what I got from my birthday and I said
a necklace, and that person started to take it as
you know, maybe I was showboting, but I really think
what it was they didn't have a necklace. There was
nothing being done or said. I wasn't wearing my necklace
and saying hey, I have a necklace, I'm better than you,
(01:58):
or hey, look at my necklace, you don't even have one.
None of that was happening. It was the sheer fact
that I had this thing that they did not have.
So sometimes when people are jealous or envious, there is
nothing you're doing. There is nothing you can do to
make the situation better. It's really personal. It is something
(02:22):
that they have to deal with. It's not anything that
you can change for them. I see it as a
very deep wound of worthiness. Let's listen to today's letter.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Hi there. Ten years ago, my cousin accused me of
saying something that I didn't say to make people think
I look down on her because of where she lived.
She grew up in poverty, and my siblings and I
have always lived in nice neighborhoods. For the most part,
I hadn't seen her in years, but she often wrote
me on Facebook about every two years to catch up.
(03:01):
Once I invited everyone to get together, she and her
brother started attacking our family online, publicly stating that tables
have turned sending threats and basically trying to start a
fight with my sisters and I because they were mad
that I started a group message to ask if anybody
wanted to get together to catch up. This letter started
(03:21):
with a sentence that jarred me. Right, they accuse me
of something that I didn't say, and I immediately thought, oh,
the defensiveness in that statement. So let's say that someone
believes that we did something and we don't think we
did it. We may want to hear them out. Not
(03:42):
that we have to agree, like, yes, okay, I said it,
but if we are wanting to repair a relationship, we
might not want to talk about how whatever they're thinking
is untrue. We can explore this idea with them. What
I tend to see is there is some misunderstanding in
(04:05):
what was said. So it may be that you didn't
say the thing that they thought you said, but maybe
something was said, and there was a loud radio up
and they thought this word was that word? You know,
like maybe there's something else there. So if we're wanting
to repair a situation, we really have to think about
(04:26):
how we're looking at the situation. Saying to someone I
didn't say that will automatically put them on guard. If
you're wanting to repair, do not start there. What is
it you think I said? Tell me what happened according
to your perspective of things. And listen, now you're saying,
(04:51):
you know, I really didn't have any issue with them
growing up in poverty, and my siblings didn't have any
issue with it. You know, we lived in a nice neighborhood,
socio economic status, whether it is you know, in a
family and a friendship at work. It's divisive, like just
(05:12):
the idea of it, your stuff is better than my stuff.
And again, you know, where does the idea of better
come from. It can be us, It could be other
situations where we start to have these ideas about people
who have more or less. This is poverty. This is
how they do things. This is how they do things.
(05:33):
I find it really interesting with kids when there's a
lack of compassion around the differences and our lack of control.
You know, for children who grow up in a nice
neighborhood or in an inner city or an impoverished environment,
none of that was their choice. They're born into a family,
(05:54):
and this is the circumstance in which they're given. So
if you're talking about children, you know, it's always interesting
when it goes back to I'm mad at you for
having this thing when we were ten years old. I'm
mad at you for doing this thing when we were eight.
We were children, you know, so much of this stuff
(06:15):
that we're now fighting about as adults, so many of
these ideas we have about our situation, we didn't have
any power and control over. It was our parents. And
I wonder, in this situation with your cousin, what were
the parents doing to make it more of a compassionate environment.
(06:37):
Was there any you know, maybe from your parents like
those are your poor cousins, or maybe from their side,
this is your rich and uncle, like what was being said,
Because I'm gathering that the language you're using, and that
you probably used a lot of in childhood is coming
from the adults. Because children, if it were from them,
(07:01):
I've seen children just be a little more compassionate in
their language of describing others. So I wonder, is this
you know, some of this stuff shaped by the perspective
of the elders in the family and not necessarily your
own stuff.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Let's keep listening.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
After that happened, I blocked her and her brother online
because it was clear that they had envied us since
we were kids, but we just never knew they felt
that way about us. I ran into the Maile cousin
a few months later. He apologized and we agreed to
disagree that the family never treated them like charity.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
What I find interesting here is the family never treated
him like a charity. Let's say it's true that you
all had things that you donated to them, or you
gave to them, right like maybe close you out grew,
or some furniture or accessories, or you paid for dinner.
Let's say that those things are true. It wouldn't be
(08:01):
a problem if their perspective about it wasn't that of
we're a charity case. Could it have been seen as
help I wonder how that situation can be reframed, because
it is quite possible that they felt like a charity
case because not only were you all offering them things.
(08:25):
I'm sure that there were other people in their community,
maybe their school, offering things. I went to a school
and I remember at Christmas time they would have like
these good Fellow boxes and if you were of a
certain income bracket, you would get this box and it
had like, gosh, I don't even remember, but you know,
like a toy and some you know, stuff for a
(08:45):
kid if you were of a certain income bracket. So
just receiving that box, you could say, oh my gosh,
I got a gift for Christmas. Or this organization sees
me as a charity case. So it's really based on
your perspective. Often we hand things on when we can't
use them anymore. Is that charity or is it giving?
(09:08):
I just this week, I've given away three bags of
stuff from my house because I don't want it anymore.
I can't fit it, my kids can't use it. It
no longer has a space. I am regifting, I am rehoming.
I am not doing this, you know, to be you know,
(09:31):
like oh my gosh, I'm better than them, or this
sort of thing. It's like, my children can't fit these clothes.
Is there a person or a place maybe saying tax
bracket as me or a different tax bracket. Who would
be willing to pick these clothes up from my home
so they can have this size?
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Right?
Speaker 1 (09:52):
So your children can have this size? Are your children
interested in legos? Are your children interested in you know,
some of these clothes or things that we have. The
way that we view what we're doing for others and
the way that they view what they're receiving, and how
is really important here it's charity or it's a gift.
(10:13):
It's charity, or it's rehoming. It's charity or it's help.
We don't have the power to shape that meaning for
other people. And I hear with your cousins the dispute
has been around meaning it didn't mean that, but for
them it did. And that is much bigger than what
(10:37):
happened with you. It's probably in many instances. I don't
know how you know farthest goes for them or how
big this thing is for them, Like how many times
have they received things from other people? It's not just
you a near world, you know, it's other family members,
as I said, it's churches, is all sorts of things.
If they were in an environment where they're all always
(11:00):
asking people for stuff. You are a charity to them.
They were treated like a charity. They didn't like it.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
It sounds like.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
They wish they were able to afford these things. So
as they're saying these things and using this language, I
want you to just pause. From their perspective, Could it
be true? Not from your perspective, not from your parents' perspective,
not from this place of defensiveness, but from their perspective,
(11:32):
as children who needed things, who wanted things.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Could it be true for them? I think so, you know,
I think so.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Our world is shaped by what we experience, and we
experience things in many different places.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Let's keep listening. We decided it would be fine if
we started inviting each other to our kids' birthday parties,
since we both had kids the same age. After going
to his child's birthday, the male cousin mugged me and
ignored me each time I tried speaking to him. My
sister wants to keep having a relationship with them, but
I have decided not to. What do you think of
(12:10):
this situation? Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Hm. You know, this sounds like a very deep wound
for them, and it's something that your cousin has to
be willing to deal with. When people feel jealous or
envious of other people, what I see us trying to
(12:37):
do is make them feel better. You know, they feel
really bad. I have this car, so I'm going to
drive my old, raggedy car. I'm going to pretend to
not have what I have. I'm not going to tell
them about this promotion I just got. I won't tell
them about this thing because we're trying to make them
feel better, right Like, I want them to feel better
(13:00):
about this thing, when in actuality, it's their work to do.
When they feel bad, you get jealous, you feel envious
about stuff I know I do. I'm not going to
sit on here and say, oh, I've never felt jealous
or envious. I have.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
I can tell you a thousand stories about it.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
You know, there are times when I'm like, oh, that
is so nice that that person has that type of relationship,
or they have that thing, or they have this life
experience that I haven't had. But when you're doing some
work with yourself, when you're in therapy, when you're journaling,
(13:36):
when you're in community with people of all different walks
of life, you're able to see, like, I really love
that for them, and it's okay for me to have
a little oh and then go back to I am
okay as I am. Some of us don't have that
because we're not doing any of that work, and so
(13:57):
when we see people with stuff, we even try to
get it, you know, I know we do that as
we're browsing social medium and we see this new influencer.
Oh my gosh, look at her bag. I gotta get
that same bag. Where does she get that back? Or
oh my gosh, look at her family. I have to
get her family. Look at her candles. I have to
get her candles, look at his stuff. Blah blah blah blah.
You know, we immediately try to capture it as a
(14:20):
way to minimize that feeling. But I think what's really
helpful is to sit with that and wonder why why
do I feel like I need to get rid of it?
Why do I feel like this is the solution. Why
am I not able to look at stuff and say
that is so nice? That candle is so nice for them,
(14:43):
But I don't need anymore. You know, the last candle
I had it had too much soot and mess my
walls up.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
That's a true story.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
I had a candle that just well, But how do
we look at what other people have and love that
for them? How do we address those loans of for
twenty years, this person thought this about me, and this
is you know, they thought I was poor, they thought
(15:09):
I was this thing.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Is it true?
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Are we willing to be in conversation with people to
really find out what they thought? Not based on assumption?
But how did you see us when we were growing up?
What did you think about the differences in our financial status?
What did you think about your parents giving us stuff? Well,
this is how I felt about it. You know, until
(15:33):
we can get into those conversations, we can't get through
these issues. But the person who is feeling the envy
and the jealousy, they have to be willing to do
the work because it's their work to do. And minimizing
your success, dimming your life, pretending you don't have stuff.
You know, some of these things we do to help
(15:54):
them feel better, it's not really helpful, because what's helpful
is you figuring out how to deal with the discomfort
of a feeling that many of us will have over
and over and over about different things. If I could
just name a list, if I'm being honest, right now, like, ugh,
what are the last few things I've envy? I am
(16:15):
a I don't even want to use the word envy
because I feel like maybe it doesn't have any anks
to it. It doesn't have any like, oh I want
to get them. But I have felt like wow in
all of people who can do things that I can't do,
like make their own commucha, you know, make a fresh
holiday wreath, you know, people who can do floral arrangements,
(16:39):
people who have you know, sports cars, people who have
you know, like all.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Of these things.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
It's like, oh my god, look at this thing. But
I wonder, also, how can I learn those things? If
I really want those things for myself?
Speaker 2 (16:53):
How can I figure out how to make computia? What
tutorials do I need to watch to figure out out
how to make that flower arrangement? And there are a
lot of things that I just have to say that
is really good for them. I don't I don't even
want to take the time and energy to ferment a
fruit ever, you know, I just I really just want
(17:16):
to go buy it.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
But I'm still really amazed that you can do it.
Thank you for doing it, so I can buy it?
Right Like, there are other ways for us to you know,
support people even when we really love those things. And
you know, it takes a really special person to show
up in your life and they have a desire for
that thing, but they're able to work through their stuff
(17:40):
to be in relationship with you. That is top tier
self care that they're doing. And we can all really
do that work when we are intentional, but many of
us are not. We're like, I'm jealous this other person
has to do less, be less. They can't talk to
me about their stuff, or I'm going to be really
upset about it.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
We have to do the work.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
To be able to withstand someone having stuff, with someone
being a certain way, or you know, having certain successes
in life. Everything is not for us. But when we
lead with unhealthy feelings towards people, it doesn't clear the
(18:23):
path for our goodness. It doesn't clear a path for
us to attract the things that we could have. You know,
I spoke earlier about the situation with the necklace. I
think that was you know, my situation with like the necklace,
(18:45):
like oh you got a necklace or you know, but
it evolved, you know it. I think in relationships, it
just goes from one thing to the next. If we're
not able, it's oh my gosh, you have a necklace.
Oh yeah, whatever, you got a new job. You know,
it really taints the relationship because the person on the
(19:06):
receiving side is like, well, I don't want to tell
this person anything. I don't want to invite them to
my stuff. Like I want to be in relationship with people.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Who are happy for me.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
So if you notice, you know, in either direction, if
you're the person who's like, oh, this is how I
act when I feel envious, we have to do the
work of being able to be in relationships with people
when they have things that we may want or desire.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
We have to mind our mouth.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
You know.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Sometimes we are making comments that, oh, that must be
nice for you. You know what comment I love to say
right now, I love that for you. And that's the
way I say I love that for you, because the
way we say it matters. I love that for you.
Please don't say that you want to make sure that
you I love that for you, because you know, there
(19:58):
are some things I'm just like, oh, that is so
amazing you're going on that trip. I do love that
for you because you're a great human being. I don't
think you don't deserve to go on a trip. Now
I want to go on a trip, but I think
you deserve to go on a trip. I don't think
we have to pick right now who gets to go.
Clearly it's you, so I don't need to say you
(20:19):
wish it was me.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
You're going.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
I can be in this moment with you. If that's
a trip I really want to go on, I will
figure it out. What I find is, as we are
trying to live the life of other people get these
things that they have, acquire the accouterments of what we
think of as their happiness, it doesn't feel so good
(20:44):
when we get it. It doesn't feel the way that
we thought it would. It doesn't give us the level
of pleasure that it probably gave them. Why it's not
ours to have. We're not supposed to have every single
thing that another person has. We're not supposed to live
(21:05):
the life of other people. Your story is your story,
and your cousin's story that is their story. I hear
you saying you don't want to have the relationship, and
I get that. You know when someone has these deep
issues with you that it sounds like has nothing to
do with anything you can control in childhood. It's no
(21:28):
longer it's not your work to do. This is work
that they need to do in order to be in
a relationship with a person that they have this view of.
So I'm going back to the question that I asked
at the top of this. Do they think they're better
or do we feel inferior? I want you to think
(21:49):
about that. You need to hear this. Envy and jealousy
are normal emotions. What makes those emotions unhealthy is how
we respond to them in our relationships with other people.
(22:10):
We can feel jealous, we can feel envious, but it's
not always appropriate to make mean comments. It's not always
appropriate to bring up past incidents and talk about how
they were this and you were that, or to tell
people how they don't deserve it or you want it.
Those are the things that you may not want to
(22:32):
do when you feel discomfort around what other people have
or who they are. If you're dealing with jealousy or envy,
which many of us are, you know, if we're really
being honest, there is something that we have been like, ugh,
even this week, even today. Get clear about what your
(22:53):
stuff is. Make an envy list, make a list and
just say this is my stuff when this comes up
with people, not when it comes up with me, but
when it comes up with people. Uh, these are the
things that kind of poke at me because I wish
I had those things. Get clear about that so when
it happens you have a level of awareness, it's not shocking.
(23:16):
Maybe your thing is, you know, people who grew up
in certain financial backgrounds. Maybe your thing is people who
drive certain types of cars. Maybe your thing is people
who live in tiny houses. I don't know, but you
have a thing. Be aware of what your thing is.
(23:42):
You need to hear. This is an iHeart production. Host
it by me Ndra Glover to wob Our executive producer
is Joe l Vodique. Our senior producer and editor is
Mia don Taylor. Send us a voice memo with your
questions about boundaries and relationships. You need to hear this
at iHeartMedia dot com. Please be sure to rate our
(24:06):
show wherever you listen to it, and share this episode
with someone who needs to hear this.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Talk to you next time.
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