The 2023 Dalton Scale with Mina Kimes

A virtual room filled with some heroes - Dan Hanzus, Marc Sessler, Gregg Rosenthal, and Mina Kimes bring you the 2023 edition of The Dalton Scale where they search for the NFL's prime meridian quarterback. Before the search begins, the heroes react to the Aaron Rodgers possibly being a Swifty (5:27), the new fair catch rule (7:57) and the new Thursday Night Football flex possibilities (8:52), the Chargers trying to make peace with Austin Ekeler, Lamar Jackson's feel for his new offense (15:21) and DeAndre Hopkins' comments about what he wants in a team (18:49). After the break, the heroes revisit the Dalton Scale (23:00), establish those who are clearly above the line (26:40) and float new possibilities (29:00). The show is wrapped up with some talk about the younger quarterbacks in the league who aren't yet eligible for the Dalton Scale (52:30).

NOTE: Time codes approximate

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Play Around the NFL podcast Wolves Andy, don't it a Beer?

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Hello, cart Daddy.

Speaker 3 (00:12):
Welcome to another edition of Around the NFL.

Speaker 4 (00:16):
My name is Dan Hansis comes to you from a
virtual room filled with heroes across Angeles.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
Mark Sessler, Greg Rosenthal, What was that?

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Carrot Daddy?

Speaker 3 (00:31):
Jason Zumol, Thank you. Buddy.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
Wellton is one of the rare gentlemen. I wish I
was one of these that just gets better looking as
he gets older.

Speaker 5 (00:40):
I thought he's become distinctly better looking in fact last year,
and I know we just sort of had an air
of confidence and eased his game as well. But we'd
see him on the sideline compared to early career. He
almost had like a dashing villain look to him at times.

Speaker 4 (00:55):
Well it's the it's the chiseld eyebrows that were crying
out for something that compl and then a very healthy,
masculine beard came in and away we go.

Speaker 3 (01:03):
But enough about that. We're going to get to Andy Dalton.

Speaker 4 (01:06):
But first let's welcome in. In this very important episode
of the off season where we do break down the
Dalton scale, we have to bring in a heavy hitter.
So here she comes from ESPN the Queen of NFL Media,
Mina Kimes.

Speaker 6 (01:25):
Wow, hello, thank you for joining me. Fourth appearance? Now,
fourth appearance?

Speaker 2 (01:33):
What fifth?

Speaker 6 (01:34):
Maybe I'm not keeping track.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
We should do that.

Speaker 4 (01:37):
We should do that SNL thing where you if you
are on the show five times, you get a jacket.

Speaker 6 (01:43):
I would love that. I would love it. Greg has
been on my podcast, The Menichime Show featuring Lenny definitely
more than five times, so I think the scales are
still tilted in your guys' favor in terms of me
owing you appearances.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
You've got to get gregto Yeah, I need a co
I never brought in chips as you did when you
got sick on the way to your first appearance. I
think on this show on the way and have to
stop at a gas station to puke, I believe. But
I also have never sat next to you in first
class on the way to the super Bowl, which which
Mark did, and I feel like we should at least
find out a little more.

Speaker 5 (02:15):
I felt lucky to do that. I thought it was
you know, I think for both of us. You know,
when you sit down and it's like do we talk
or do we pretend we're now reading a book with
headphones on it was a brief flight out of Burbank
to Phoenix, and so it was just the right amount
of time where I wasn't starting to question myself, like
am I truly just annoying Mina at high levels?

Speaker 6 (02:36):
At this point, you were not annoying me. And it
was the perfect length because I think if it was
let's say, the super Bowl was in Indianapolis or something,
or you know, I did a three hour plus flight right,
one of us at some point would have had to
transition to putting on headphones, opening a book, but not
so Burbank to Phoenix perfect for a conversation.

Speaker 7 (02:56):
Real time.

Speaker 4 (02:57):
And I remember, you know, once Greg and I because
we flew out of a different airport, Rendezvoud, and we
ended up at a super Bowl party that Mina was at.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
Mina came over.

Speaker 4 (03:08):
And because she's class act, said hi and everything, and
she was like, yeah, I was next to Mark Sessler
on the plane and it was a wild conversation.

Speaker 3 (03:16):
And then I go to Marc.

Speaker 4 (03:17):
I said, yeah, you were next to Mina on the
flight and He's like, yeah, it was, you know, just
a regular conversation.

Speaker 3 (03:22):
It was. So I would love to know the details
of this conversation.

Speaker 7 (03:27):
At some point I thought it was enriching. I'll just
I'll describe it as that.

Speaker 6 (03:31):
Yeah, that's between me and Mark to so I'm make
guys jealous.

Speaker 4 (03:37):
The Minachimes Podcast, The Minachimes Show featuring Lenny, ESPN all over.
In fact, if you go, if you were to like
find this is how many shows Mina is on on ESPN.
If you were to go find one of those old
like hunting and fishing shows that ESPN would air before
Sports Center in nineteen ninety two, you would find a

(03:58):
young Mina comes on one of those fishing games. That's
that's true story. Find it and you'll and you'll thank me.
And now she's giving us just a little bit of
her time. Today we're going to talk the Dalton Scale.
How familiar are you with the Dalton Scale.

Speaker 3 (04:14):
We're going to get to a little later, but it's
just out of curiosity.

Speaker 6 (04:16):
Oh, I know the Dalton Scale. I've heard you guys
talk about it. It's not a great episode to be
on in terms of public opinion, because I feel like
it's a scale that is positioned to enrage fan bases.
Because no fan base wants to be told that their
quarterback is the prime meridian. It's just not it's somehow

(04:39):
more insulting than you know, being a rebuilding told you're
a rebuilding team, and yet here I am ready to
alienate one fan base.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
Well, you don't want to be one of those NFL
media people out there. I'm not going to name any names,
but I see their strategy, and their strategy in the
off season is pump everyone up and so that every
fan base likes you, every front office likes who talk
great about ownership like they don't have enough, like people
talking nice about them, like talk great about the executive
just nice, nice, nice all off season. That's not what

(05:08):
you get here. We look for mediocrity. Thought.

Speaker 4 (05:11):
I thought you were gonna say, you don't like the
people in our business who basically rip off this idea
and pretend like they started it. Because the Dalton scale
is ip of around the NFL. Can't wait to talk
about it, But first, let us do a little bit
of news.

Speaker 2 (05:26):
What's your favorite tailor?

Speaker 4 (05:27):
Seff song?

Speaker 8 (05:28):
Too many, too many to count anything off of folklore.
Probably August the one going way back. I would say, Uh,
New Year's was it newsday or news Newsday? That's a banger. Yeah,
how he picked this one. But if I picked one album, definitely.

Speaker 4 (05:47):
Folklore, so on brand that Aaron Rodgers would be sitting.
I picture him sitting in the woods somewhere, maybe on
a bluff and Malibu, listening to the one uh and
Folklore in general on repeat and just getting real deep.

Speaker 5 (06:05):
Man, Dan, I gotta ask you, like, are you uh,
We're getting a lot of Aaron Rodgers and it's you know,
I think he's been if anything, warmed up and open
with the New York media.

Speaker 7 (06:15):
Are you enjoying this experience?

Speaker 5 (06:16):
I know you were a little hesitant going in to
this aspect of it.

Speaker 4 (06:22):
I am enjoying having Aaron Rodgers as the quarterback of
my team.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
Yes, yes, all right. I mean that was very political
answer also, like he's that was the kind of answer
you gave when you you said, like, oh, I'm a
big swifty. But then when they actually asked him, he
realized like, oh, he was kind of just bce maybe.

Speaker 3 (06:40):
I mean, he dropped some deep cuts there.

Speaker 4 (06:41):
I mean, okay, the one by the way, which is
the lead track on Folklore, is like I don't know
if you're a swifty or anything close Mina, but that
is the one if you ever like and Mark, I
would be careful with because you're you're a nostalgic guy
with you'll post the photos of camp happiness and things.
That's the one, like if the one that quote got
away or the one that you have regrets about Swift?

Speaker 3 (07:03):
Now that one?

Speaker 4 (07:04):
So I wonder who Rogers is talking about in the
one or thinking what.

Speaker 3 (07:08):
They should say.

Speaker 6 (07:09):
They have a lot in common. Aaron Rodgers and Taylor
Swift both provocative, loyal fan bases, divisive, talk a lot
about their exes. I guess he doesn't talk about his exes.
He's got a string of exes. And now we'll see
what he says about the Packers.

Speaker 3 (07:25):
But oh no, is he gonna end up together?

Speaker 9 (07:28):
Well?

Speaker 6 (07:28):
I would say this whole season is kind of like
an Aaron Rodgers song about the ex Maybe I don't
know anything about Taylor Swift's that's not obvious from the
way I just depicted her.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
Yeah, you know, you know tall individuals.

Speaker 4 (07:45):
Yeah, maybe this offseason, Mark, and maybe this is the
all too well ten minute version where it's just gonna
drag on and on and it doesn't need to be
ten minutes, but it is. Let's get to the news
and start with uh, let's do some rule stuff.

Speaker 3 (08:00):
Real quick here.

Speaker 4 (08:01):
The NFL owners voted on Tuesday to approve resolution that
allows players to fare catch kickoffs with the resulting possession
beginning at the team's own twenty five yard line.

Speaker 3 (08:14):
This is in many ways tied to.

Speaker 4 (08:17):
Player safety, of course, and in other news the Thursday
Night Football. This happened right after we finished taping our
last show, which is always super annoying. They approved the
flex scheduling for Thursday Night Football a modified proposal. The
strict requirements are as follows. Thursday games can only be

(08:39):
flex between weeks thirteen and seventeen, with a four week
notice required. Only two Thursday Night games could be flex
per year, and the resolution notes that the flexible scheduling
for TNF is on a quote trial basis.

Speaker 3 (08:50):
Let's hear from rog on.

Speaker 10 (08:52):
This flex has been part of our scheduling for quite
a while. We expanded it to Thursday Night. It will
be used judiciously if at all. It's a very limited
time period, and it's also something that is what we
would consider a higher bar. We expanded it to twenty
eight days in the context of our fans and making

(09:12):
sure that they have appropriate notice if that does Happennina.

Speaker 3 (09:15):
And John Mara is not happy.

Speaker 6 (09:18):
How about you with the flex aspect. Yeah, I am
kind of surprised that anyone can gin up really strong
emotions in response to this, but it's happening. It's not
that many games. I don't have the schedule in front
of me, but when I looked at the final five
or whatever Thursday games, there was only one that jumped

(09:40):
out as being an obvious candidate.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
Why I know it's one it is. I know it's one.
It is, And you're saying you can't get imagine anyone
getting worked up. This is the one game of the
year I can go to with my family if they
move it. So immediately I was like when I saw
this rule, I was like, that's the game they'll probably move.
My daughter, who loves the rams, will has been looking
forward to that. We didn't go out all last year,

(10:02):
Like that's the game we're going to go to if
it gets moved to Sunday, which is Christmas. She will
not go to an NFL game this year because she'll
be flying over to Japan and we wouldn't have gone
on Christmas anyways. But uh, there We're not gonna go
my daughter see football. If they move it, they're not
gonna see football. But we can't go on Sundays because

(10:28):
it works. So Thursday night's the only chance I would get.
And if it, if it moves, unbanked.

Speaker 4 (10:34):
Greg aheads, let Greg take a Sunday off and take
his daughter to a game.

Speaker 5 (10:38):
I've long said that we should each during the lengthy
NFL season have our own bye weeks. So Greg, if
you were willing to take that, you could go to
the game no matter what.

Speaker 7 (10:49):
I'm with Mina though, because if you look at these games.

Speaker 5 (10:51):
Real quick, Seahawks Cowboys, like, who's pulling the Cowboys off
Prime time unless they've been hit by a nuclear bomb
at some point during the season. Patriot Steelers, Chargers, Raiders, That, Saints,
Rams and Jets. Brown's we'll see where those two teams are.
But that could be a spicy finale. So it's not
like these un less injuries strike. I don't hate that.
Do you have that flexibility? It's a it's a massive

(11:14):
fu to traveling fans. I think we all get that,
but I think the NFL has been telling us loud
and clear for a long time. This is we are
just a hit television show and we want the best
episodes possible late in the year.

Speaker 4 (11:26):
Follow the money and other news. Austin Eckler, he listened.
Austin Eckler wanted a big new contract entering his age
twenty eight season. That's not how it works for running
backs entering their age twenty eight season, which sucks for
Eckler and his counterparts, of course, but he did get
a little bit of love from the Chargers, who added

(11:49):
a one point seventy five million incentive to his contract.
He will be a free agent mark after the upcoming season.
It feels like at that point the pro walk and
then you know, heads up, probably not going to be
an overly warm free agency pool for him either, But.

Speaker 3 (12:07):
That's just the way it is with this position.

Speaker 5 (12:10):
I was watching a few clips from games from back
like in the eighties, and it's when you had guys
like Kevin Mack who had those massive shoulder pads and
like no one could drag him down. They're just like
the center and the heartbeat of the team. And we
got a guy who was one hundred and seventy seven
catches and thirty eight touchdowns over the last two seasons,

(12:30):
and they're trying to keep them happy with a really
small piece of pie that runs off incentives. So yeah,
I don't think he'll be with the Chargers after this season.

Speaker 2 (12:39):
I feel like Kevin Mack is Mark's equivalent of a
football player camp happiness. Like he win, he just needs
to go to like a happy place. He just watches
eighties clips? How many times? How many times has Kevin
mac come up on this many times?

Speaker 5 (12:52):
The dominating physical specimen. I'd suggest you check them out.

Speaker 2 (12:55):
I'm a little worried, though, Mina don't. Can't you see
imagine them doing a little bit of that like Arko
Murray in his last year in Dallas, where they're just like,
all right, it's you know, we've been holding your carry
down and just like give them three hundred and fifty
touches this year.

Speaker 6 (13:09):
I think that's likely. And I thought this seemed inevitable
when there was unsurprisingly not any trade interest in Eckler,
but also because the Chargers did nothing at the position,
I thought in the draft they might add some death
because they really haven't been able to find a reliable backup,
especially someone who can pass protect behind Eckler, and they're

(13:30):
rolling into the season with the same same guy as
Joshua Kelly and Isaiah Spiller, I believe unless I'm missing someone,
so it felt like they were going to make it
work in some way. I do question whether the run
game will improve. It's probably more predicated on, you know,
getting Rashaan Slater back and whatnot, because it was so
insufficient at the end of the season. As good as

(13:52):
we all as much as we like Eckler, but yeah,
it's a cold world out there for a running Backsits.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
Line looks good though. I just finished projected starters, which
felt really good yesterday. I'm done. I'm done writing, you
know until camp uh and so that's done, and I
was like, this is a bizarro Chargers team. The offensive
line looks kind of great if if Slayter's healthy.

Speaker 4 (14:15):
Speaking of which, we did the running back draft on
our last show and on the Late Jim Brown and Mark.
Not surprisingly, it appeared that you got the most support
for your list, which I would agree with too. I
think the draft worked out really well for you, Greg.
You did finish a distant third, and someone actually on
Twitter his name is jono oudwad or Odowd messaged us

(14:42):
I created a Twitter account, specifically to tweet that he
enjoyed your meltdown. During the episode, he called it a
slow Greg's slow motion car crash during the RB mock
draft made my week.

Speaker 3 (14:52):
Thank you, you know what.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
It made for good podcasting, and I do want to
track this during the season. Let's let's see how bad
my car crash looks. I'm gonna be like the Saints,
like trading up for people you've never heard of, and
then it works out great.

Speaker 7 (15:06):
I don't like my I liked.

Speaker 5 (15:07):
I can see the numbers, and I have been favored
and I had the first pick, and so it's like
it looks good on paper, but that just feels like
doom is ahead. Let's let's see where we are in December,
because I think my list could fall apart real quick.

Speaker 3 (15:20):
Right. In other news, Lamar Jackson is.

Speaker 4 (15:24):
Well paid and a member of the Ravens still and
has a new offensive coordinator and some new weapons. Here
is what Lamar had to say about how he envisions
the offense for the Baltimore Ravens looking in twenty twenty three.

Speaker 11 (15:38):
I mean just being able to throw the ball down
the field. You know, we sometimes sometimes you know, we
can't running out going run. I can't want to take
you so far, you know, And I feel like with
this new era of teams and offenses in the league,
I feel like we need that. In coach TODM. Munkin,
when I'm saying his offense so far is looking tremendous.

Speaker 7 (15:55):
You feel like you're they don't won't have to run
as much and that'll maybe be scaled back a little bit.

Speaker 11 (16:00):
Absolutely, absolutely, especially with the receivers we have there.

Speaker 3 (16:04):
You go, me ands.

Speaker 4 (16:05):
The conventional wisdom now is that with the new offense
and these weapons, that Lamar Jackson is poised to have
a big, kind of rising type season that maybe could
even resemble his MVP year of a few years back.
Are you buying all in on stock that Lamar is
going to be a monster this year.

Speaker 6 (16:24):
I'm so overleveraged on Raven's offense stock that my house
is up for you know. I took out a loan
on it. Maybe too much, because you're counting on a
couple of receivers with pretty recent injury history in Beckham
Junior and Bateman. Both of them are I actually feel
as being a little bit duplicative. So if one of

(16:46):
them were to go down. I still think the combination
of the other save Flowers and Mark Andrews, would be sufficient.
But I yes, everything they're selling. Everything I read about
Todd Monkin thinking about his offenses over the years, thinking
about how he's going to use these players. I mean,
can you guys name the Ravens receivers at the end

(17:09):
of the season, they're like one, two, three.

Speaker 7 (17:12):
They're leading receiver like mine was.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
DuVernay was hurt. Yeah, that's right, there we go.

Speaker 3 (17:22):
It was bad.

Speaker 6 (17:25):
Deshaun Jackson was one of the Sean Jackson, Yes, I
just don't understand how you cannot The improvement is so dramatic.
It's hard for me to imagine a situation when it
where the passing game isn't at least better.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
Well, DuVernay and Agila right now are there four and
they're five and that's not even counting Mark Andrews, and
that they would have been one two at the end
of last year. Verna was hurt like everyone else on
that roster. The comment that Lamar made that you know,
I think was the most telling was how Monkin was
just allowing him to protections and change the plays in

(18:03):
a much different way and enabling way. Like doing real
quarterback stuff, and it just wasn't the case in the
Greg Roman system, and it made sense in that system
they were just going for different things. But he he
seemed excited about being able to do what he wants
at the line of scrimmage, being able to change the
protection a little more flexibility, So real quarterback e stuff
as our friend.

Speaker 5 (18:23):
The taste, well, it's like you had an MVP quarterback
who you know, just a couple of years ago, went
public with Rich Eyesen saying that we're going against defenses
that are calling out our plays as a line of
scrimmage because of that lack of flexibility. So it's like
they needed to make a change and they found the
right people to dip into this offense. So it's completely
it's a different Ravens experience.

Speaker 3 (18:44):
Will be interesting to see, all right.

Speaker 4 (18:46):
Finally in the news, DeAndre Hopkins, I'm surprised, I don't
know about you guys, that he never got traded or
hasn't been traded yet. He is a veteran wide receiver
that even when he came back from a suspension last year,
performed like a number one wide receiver the Cardinals. Obviously,
you are going in a different direction organizationally, not a Super

(19:07):
Bowl contender. I feel like he could be a final
piece for somebody. But there he is, still in Arizona.

Speaker 9 (19:13):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (19:13):
Here he was on the I Am.

Speaker 4 (19:15):
Athlete podcast, uh, talking about his situation right now.

Speaker 9 (19:20):
What I want is stable management upstairs. I think that's
something that I haven't really had, you know, the past
couple years of my career, coming from Houston, so being
in Arizona.

Speaker 5 (19:33):
Uh.

Speaker 9 (19:33):
You know, so I've been through three to four gms
my career show with stable management.

Speaker 3 (19:40):
A QB who loves.

Speaker 9 (19:41):
The game, QB who uh you know, brings everybody on
board with him and which is not just himself but
you know people around him. You know, I don't need
a great QB. I've done a way with par qbs.
You know, just a QB who loves a game like
I do. And a great defense. I think defense won championships.

Speaker 3 (20:04):
Hmm, Miana.

Speaker 4 (20:05):
First of all, that look, I think it's a throwback
Astro's cap, but it kind of looks like a cowboy.

Speaker 6 (20:11):
That's what I thought. He was wearing a cowboys hat
for a second, and almost I guess, but yeah, can you.

Speaker 3 (20:17):
Try to parse those thoughts at all, what does he
really saying?

Speaker 6 (20:21):
Uh, I heard him say I want not Kyler Murray,
and then I want not Matt Schaubs slash all of
the random Texans I played with over the years. I mean,
it's hard not to hear a little bit of subtweeting
in that. Certainly not subtweeting when it comes to management,
which I think everyone on Earth would agree. He's right

(20:43):
to say he's been under unstable management. What he described
I thought was pretty realistic though, right He wasn't saying
I want to play for a super Bowl team. I
want to play with Patrick Mahomes. Like the thing is
he laid out in terms of stability, defense, solid quarterback,
there's a lot of teams that fit that profile. Are

(21:06):
there a lot of teams that fit that profile that
have the cap space to accommodate DeAndre Hopkins. No, And
I think that's what's holding this up.

Speaker 5 (21:12):
I think one of the reasons that he's still sitting
where he is because there is a thirty one million
dead cap hit over the next two years for the Cardinals.
So it's not like the most tradable person. They're in
a they're in a full full of rebuild though, and
it's like, I'm convinced, remain more and more convinced that
when everything, when we reach the end of this journey,
that Kyler Murray will not be the quarterback of this
team a year from now. I just I just feel

(21:34):
like that will not be the case. And like, so
if you're DeAndre Hopkins at his age, like there's got
to be a short list of teams that say, I
want I want to put myself in the best position
to not be in a rebuild, but be with a
team that has all those things he mentioned. It's like,
why not move him? Why is he on this roster
right now?

Speaker 4 (21:51):
Yeah, based on what we've heard and kind of the
rumors out there. The line here, and thank you to
Eric behind the Glass for transcribing this. I want a
QB who loves the game, a QB who you know,
brings everybody on board with him and pushes not just himself,
but you know people around him. You know, I don't
need a great QB. And like, it's funny just because

(22:14):
I think the a lot of people say, oh, Kyler
Murray is a great QB, but then there's all this
other stuff.

Speaker 3 (22:20):
Does feel a little subtweetye I agree he did.

Speaker 2 (22:23):
He did follow it up because I think he realized
how it sounded, and he's like, I believe Kyler loves
the game and they have a nice new GM, but
you know, Kyler is not going to be around. And
Cole McCoy loves the game too, but you know, you know,
you know, and he started like bad, but he he
you can you can tell what he's what he wants.

(22:44):
Let's let's get him, Let's get him a new home.

Speaker 3 (22:46):
You know what I want. I want to talk Dalton scales.
Let's take a break, Let's go and do it.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
Andy Dalton.

Speaker 1 (23:00):
This is the prime meridian of NFL quarterbacks. He represents
quarterback purgatory. If you are ranked below Andy Dalton, your
franchise needs a quarterback. If you're ranked above Andy Dalton,
you're in ship shape. Everything's figured out. You're good to go.

Speaker 2 (23:18):
Ah.

Speaker 4 (23:18):
Yes, you know, I thought Chris wherever he is, would
get a kick out of his fine words over the
bed of Sam Spence. The NFL films this is Dalton
Scale twenty twenty three, and West said it perfectly.

Speaker 3 (23:36):
We are looking for.

Speaker 4 (23:39):
Well, me know, we're not looking for Andy Dalton anymore.
Andy Dalton is the patron saint.

Speaker 3 (23:45):
Of the Dalton scale.

Speaker 4 (23:46):
He's still in the league, of course, but now is
very entrenched as a backup. And for so many years
Dalton really did, as Chris explained, represent that guy that
is the divide point, the prime meridian. And it is
that time of year to go through the quarterbacks of
our league and figure out who that guy is or
who or maybe there isn't one.

Speaker 3 (24:08):
It's time.

Speaker 6 (24:11):
Are you making me go first?

Speaker 3 (24:13):
Well, no, I just want to.

Speaker 6 (24:17):
I'm ready. No.

Speaker 4 (24:18):
Yeah, I also know that you are feeling pressure based
on what we talked about at the top of the show,
So we're just here to set you at ease.

Speaker 6 (24:24):
Okay, I'll come down, I will do takes. I will
make some people mad. I'm ready for this.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
It is a strange concept. It famously took Dan I
think five episodes to really wrap what the Dalton scale was.
And one of the things that's beautiful about it and
Chris that definition he just gave to me is what
I always worked off of. But within that there's like

(24:51):
flexibility And one thing I was thinking as I'm making
the list of the thing now, is the Dalton Today's
Dalton line? If it's if there's a primary is better
than yesterday's Dalton scale, Like, it's not just hey, who's
the sixteenth best quarterback, it's how the league is looking.
And I think there's just more good quarterbacks now. So

(25:14):
the bar to me is a little higher for where
the Dalton scale is because you can find and we'll
talk about it. I'm you can find some pretty capable
guys that to me are below the Dalton scale because
the cost the cost of the brick has changed, it's
gone up.

Speaker 6 (25:26):
So I thought the same thing when I was ranking quarterbacks,
and I actually think some of it is the caliber
of quarterback play guys coming up. But I think a
big reason for this, and something that's going to really
influence which name I end up picking, is that coordinators
are better than they were five ten years ago. Some

(25:48):
of this is the pervasion of the Kyle Shanahan Sean
McVay wide zone quarterback bumper bowling offense, which I think
is really makes it harder to rank quarterbacks in a vacuum.
But when I looked at a lot of the guys
in the middle, I found that a lot of them
were quarterbacks that have thrived in those systems. With good

(26:09):
play callers, with good protection, and as you look around
the NFL, there's just fewer terrible situations for quarterbacks, for
average quarterbacks.

Speaker 4 (26:18):
And that's good for us as fans, because you know,
bad quarterback play with terrible game plan makes for.

Speaker 3 (26:25):
Poor viewing experience.

Speaker 4 (26:26):
So we're going in the right direction here, and maybe
a good way to get into it is just a
couple of guardrails here. First of all, who's checked out
of this conversation. Tom Brady's officially checked out of the conversation.
We think by the way, he's kind of in the
ownership group of the Raiders now. And again a few
weeks back, I pointed out that they don't really have

(26:47):
a backup quarterback and their new quarterbacks hurt all the time,
just saying and Matt Ryan, who is not officially retired
because he's got to make that money, still on his contract,
but he's now in the booth for CBS and hopefully
bringing that fiery demeanor and just ripping.

Speaker 3 (27:05):
People to shreds on the air. I'm just still holding
out hope for that.

Speaker 2 (27:09):
Ryan.

Speaker 4 (27:10):
Last year when we did this exercise, I thought that
heat for using my memories of last year, I had
Ryan as kind of that guy to keep an eye on,
but kind of to mean his point a little bit
like this stuff when you are in that middle group
and you're a guy that's right on the edge, or
you're a veteran that's faded a little bit, or a

(27:30):
player that's not overly talented, and then the scheme goes
to hell and maybe some injuries. Even a guy that
on paper looked like it made sense, all of a
sudden he's performing at one of the worst levels in
the league. So it is all kind of connected.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
Right, I look at like veterans. I mean, I don't
know other people that we're going to get rid of.
I mean, I guess this is obvious. We've done this
every year. Is like the top of the league. So
we don't need to talk like Mahomes, Herbert, Allen, Burrow,
Lamar Hurtz, Lawrence Stop. If you get to anyone, we
would even need to discuss Rogers Dak Maybe that was

(28:04):
my list. Everybody discussion, Okay, is that it? That's it?
In order to.

Speaker 5 (28:10):
Play us to fall off a cliff after said Dalton,
you know, participant, it's got to be like after that
list with Dalton in West's mind, like everything after was
like you're in a hot mess of a situation under
center for that organization. So it's like it falls off
a lot later to me than it used to do
in the past. To your point about quarterback played just
being better right now.

Speaker 4 (28:31):
So after you get through those nine names Mahomes, Hurts,
Alan Burrow, Herbert Rogers, Prescott, Jackson, Lawrence, I'll just get
things going here with the guys that were right below
there for me, and uh, and see where you guys
come down out. So I got Stafford this time last
year was coming off you know, super Bowl win and
played out of his mind in the playoffs.

Speaker 3 (28:52):
But now we're another.

Speaker 4 (28:53):
Year later, an injury rec season, and uh, you know
he's he has a good play caller and a potential
ounce back team or a team that people are sleeping
on a little bit we talked about last week, but
I think it's fair to question where he stands at
this point. And then I have cousins as well, who's
always a tough one to figure out in this exercise.

(29:16):
Men as a guy that statistically, even though he came
down a little bit last year, is yeah, he's a
very steady, productive, productive quarterback. But is he a guy
where you lock him in and say, oh, we don't
have to think about quarterback for the.

Speaker 3 (29:29):
Next five years.

Speaker 4 (29:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (29:30):
I have him above probably in that just above tier.
He had an interesting year last year because for a
long time, Kirk Cousins was like a statistical darling who
you didn't trust in to like make plays, you know,
like he would always finish here at the top in
all the advanced metrics QBR, CPOE, et cetera. And then
last year he, like you said, his stats fell off,

(29:52):
But weirdly I thought he had. He shown in big
games a bit more and was more aggressive, especially once
they traded for TG. So I think he's kind of
just in that nine to twelve or thirteen range and
we'll probably stay there.

Speaker 2 (30:11):
I'd go much lower for both of them. Actually, those
two are two of the toughest ones to me, because
I thought about this exercise. Matt Ryan is a little
similar to where Matthew Stafford. I know we haven't seen
the decline out of Matthew Stafford, but when I thought
about it, like, do you need a new franchise quarterback?
Have you had Matthew Stafford? I think that's another I

(30:32):
feel like that's an open question where he's if he's
above the line, like he's just over it. I feel
like he's not the Dalton guy because like Matt Ryan
wouldn't have been because if it falls out, he's just
he's not gonna he's gonna like the floor is gonna
fall out and he's gonna be way below the line.
But those were two guys I had much lower, like
five six guy names lower, and I actually think Cousins

(30:52):
because I at least eye test wise and the PFF
grades are kind of like that too. And I know
he was a little more aggressive, but I felt like
he could you could start to see the decline and
Cousins a year ago. And to me, he's always been
like the rich man's Andy Dalton and wouldn't settling into
being like the new Andy Dalton totally makes sense for

(31:13):
his mid thirties. So to me, he is one of
the strongest candidates to be that line. But I'm projecting
a little bit that he's that he's going to continue
declining into just a total Cousins like throwing the football
on the gender reveal like portion of his career.

Speaker 5 (31:29):
I mean, I think it matters where the team sees
that quarterback two in real life, and I think the
Vikings are ready to move on after this season. I
feel like Kirk Cousins, his name has come up in
this conversation consistently every year, because there's got to be
something about the experience of that quarterback, Like there was
an element to Andy Dalton where it's like that twenty
fifteen season, he had a couple of really wonderful stretches

(31:50):
of play, but who actually believed that the destiny of
the Bengals was gonna be anything other than a glass
of milk with Andy Dalton once you got to January.
And that's sort of just how I've always felt about
Kirk Cousins. So for me, the exercise is like I
can't get on board with Matthew Stafford just because he's
coming off a weird year, but he just won a
super Bowl. It's like, this quarterback should not ever win

(32:12):
a Super Bowl for you.

Speaker 4 (32:13):
I just want to the Dalton heads out there. I
wish he wouldn't have broken his thumb in Week fifteen.
I would have liked to see Dalton when he was
He was on a heater that season with a really
good offense, around him. I would would have liked to
see what would have happened, even if it's more than
likely it wouldn't have gotten to the super Bowl or
anything like that. It's just a bummer for the Dalton

(32:34):
heads out there that he never actually at full got
that chance.

Speaker 6 (32:40):
Can I throw out a maybe a hot takey prediction.
I think Kirk Cousins is gonna be the Minnesota Vikings
quarterback next year. The more I think about it, Greg,
you might be right in a vacuum, but I think
he's in a really good situation offensively now with a
very good group of skill players. I wouldn't be surprised
if he plays I used too well for them to

(33:01):
draft one of the fun young quarterbacks, and that there
won't be many options, And this is kind of reflected
in our exercise. I don't think there's going to be
a lot of quarterbacks out there for Minnesota to upgrade
over Kirk Cousins.

Speaker 3 (33:15):
Right.

Speaker 6 (33:16):
Vikings fans probably don't like hearing any of this, by
the way, because I think they're already ready to move on.

Speaker 2 (33:21):
Right. That's the thing is like all the fans kind
of want to move on. Everyone wants. But that's why
he is to me, very close to that middle, because
if you're above the kirk Cousins line, I feel like
you don't need a Kirk you don't need a franchise quarterback,
and if you're below you, you probably do. So I
and just their vibes, they feel like they'd be similar
hangs at parties and Kirk Cousins along Mark throw something out.

Speaker 5 (33:46):
The name that just comes to mind over and over.
And I felt this way a year ago, and I
think we're seeing the organization obviously feeling the same way.
I love the toughness of this player and I enjoy
watching him. It's Ryan Tannehill to me because I just
feel like he's just not gonna fully get you there.
I think the Titans that they drafted his success are

(34:09):
already and they've made a statement about where they are
with him. And so I felt strongly about Tannehill a
year ago and I still do, although I find it
more fun to watch than I ever found Andy Dalton
to watch.

Speaker 4 (34:20):
Yeah, we kind of were bumping up against Tannehill for
a couple of years in this exercise now, and we
even flirted with the idea of the Tanna scale, which
is pretty good pretty good branding. But for me, this
was the first time doing this exercise where I thought
he fell fairly comfortably beneath the Dalton line. Not that
I don't think that he's a guy that can have

(34:42):
a productive season ahead of him. I think he could
even surprise people because people are solo on Tennessee at
this point if he could stay healthy. But in terms
of what this exercise is, I think he's now on
the other end of things. He's getting older. Does anybody
have him above the Dalton line in their world?

Speaker 6 (35:00):
I have one quarterback of above the quarterback that I
decided was the midpoint, but they're very close and have
a lot of similarities.

Speaker 2 (35:10):
Same I had them one above the line. Maybe it's
a bias. I always thought Tannehill was better than his
career had gone. He had those years where you know,
statistically he was a top five quarterback. I didn't think
he was a top five quarterback, but it showed what
he could do. And he's played behind the worst offense,
literally the worst offensive line in the NFL I think

(35:30):
in aggregate over the last two years, and his number
two receiver right now is Nick Westbrook. Akina, who who
was like non tendered and was given a one million
dollar contract, Like pretty strong argument that they have the
worst collection of receivers and offensive line in the league,
and he hasn't looked like total garbage, which is kind

(35:51):
of like I still, if I'm going into this season,
if you put him in Minnesota, like I think him
and Kirk Couzin, they're very different and it maybe doesn't
make sense in that system, but I think they're very
similar in terms of like the quality of the quarterback
that they still are.

Speaker 6 (36:04):
Guys.

Speaker 4 (36:05):
I had two that I really struggled with, and I'll
throw out one and I don't want to step on
Mina's because I kind of want her to roll it out.

Speaker 3 (36:13):
But maybe I don't think I will hear Tua.

Speaker 2 (36:17):
Oh, that is disrespectful.

Speaker 4 (36:21):
I don't know what to do with Tua because we
know obviously that he played at a very high level
for large portions of last season. He also, you know,
has shown us he can go into funks as well,
and then of course the durability, which has to be
a factor when you're talking about franchise quarterbacks and building around.

(36:42):
So for that reason, he's actually just beneath the line
for me.

Speaker 2 (36:46):
Whoa oh, he's the first guy you are gonna get.
You're gonna make the Dolphins fans angry. That me too.

Speaker 4 (36:53):
It's like, it's not like a Jets Dolphins certainly. It's like,
I don't like somebody make the case why he strongly
should be above the line based on what he's accomplished
in the league to this point and the very real
injury concerns.

Speaker 5 (37:06):
I think metrics heads would want to fight you on
this one because he had an extremely clean season and
that took a big step forward. But I'm so with
you again. For me, it's more just the feel of it,
and this is and it's coming from ownership.

Speaker 2 (37:21):
I get it.

Speaker 5 (37:22):
But they chased after Tom Brady, they chased after Deshaun Watson.
I mean, there were just hints that were never really
fully satisfied. Now I think Mike McDaniel really seems to
like Tuam based on what he says. But I struggled
with where to put him. But I'd put him above
the Dalton line with a big weight.

Speaker 7 (37:39):
And see.

Speaker 6 (37:41):
Yeah, I did exercise on my podcast recently where I
was trying to pick the most important players non quarterbacks
on every team for the season and for the Dolphins.
I ended up with toront Armstead, and when I was
grabbing his splits on and off, it's actually quite remarkable.
They almost perfectly hoe inside with the games that Tua

(38:02):
did not play. So Dolphins fans are probably screaming, well,
look how much the offense dropped off with Teddy Groppolo,
and well, Teddy Groppolo, oh my god, Teddy Bridgewater and
Skylar Thompson, which was player you know, the Teddy never played.
I don't think he played a complete game for them.
But they also didn't have their left tackle, so it's

(38:24):
a very noisy sample set skit uh and sample size.
And when Tua played without Armstead, he suffered as well.
In fact, the game he got hurt was the one
where Armstead got hurt against Houston. Tua sacked a bunch
And I think that's kind of what makes it harder
for me to rank him, just because last year I

(38:46):
thought he was excellent. When he played previous few years,
his situation was so awful, So I feel like I
don't have a great feel for who he is as
a quarterback. And when we look at I think we're
all talking about the same kind of guy, which I
keep going. It's these Shanahan quarterbacks, right, it's the same guys.
The other ones, I think I have a better sense

(39:06):
of who they are, and with Tua, I feel like
I still don't know, but he flashed enough upside last
year for me to have him above some of the
other names.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
Yeah, I just think he's better than any of those
guys have ever been his level that he played at
last year. The timing, the accuracy, like the numbers were bananas,
but the eye test was good too. I know he
doesn't like have the big arm, but he was like
exceptional and that's why I feel like I would only
put him at the bottom of my top ten or

(39:36):
maybe like eleven or whatever. But he's comfortably way over
the line. And the injuries are a problem. But I
don't think you need to look for a franchise quarterback
if you got him, because like that production and that
like people aren't giving him, I think enough credit. They're
giving a little too much of the scheme people weren't
putting up like Jimmy G's never had a twelve game
stretch or whatever it was for Tua last year, like

(39:58):
none of those quarterbacks have. Derek Carrs never had it
like that. That was exceptional to me, and so maybe
it's not your breeze. But he if he stays healthy,
he's way over the line.

Speaker 3 (40:07):
Three. Well, yeah, I agree.

Speaker 4 (40:10):
If he stays healthy, I guess I can't get out.
I can't get over how precarious his situation is in
that department, because if he was a guy you could
lock in for sixteen seventeen starts, this wouldn't be the case.

Speaker 3 (40:22):
But I hear what you guys are s did he.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
Did start twenty six games over the last two years.
It's not like an outrageously low number, just.

Speaker 4 (40:30):
Saying okay, okay, it's a slice in with a butter knife,
but that is okay, that's fair, that's facts.

Speaker 3 (40:36):
Who wants to throw another player out something?

Speaker 4 (40:38):
Who else struggled with? Somebody I struggled with Tua. Who's
struggling out there?

Speaker 7 (40:42):
I want to hear one of Mina's Uh.

Speaker 6 (40:45):
Well I did. The one who I ended up on
was Jimmy Garoppolo because I think right now in twenty
twenty three, the prime Meridian NFL quarterback is one who
you can not only win with, but you can win
a lot of games with. Obviously, Garoppolo, But I don't

(41:05):
think anyone would say you win because of I think
it has to be one of these Shanahan guys, because
I think they're the ones we keep clustering in this mix.
And Groppolo is a guy not only like his numbers
are insane, not just wins. Like if you look at
pretty much everything over the last few years, all of
the advanced stats, he always ranks pretty high, except for

(41:28):
pushing the ball downfield, extending plays, things quarterbacks do outside
of the structure of the offense. Maybe he'll prove me
wrong in you know, playing behind a bad offensive line
this year in Las Vegas. But I feel like I've
seen enough to know where his strengths, what a ceiling is,
what the limitations are. He's a quarterback where I think

(41:53):
if you have him, you're comfortable with him. But if
you have the quarterbacks to who I would rank below him,
you're probably not comfortab with your situation.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
It's a good it's a good argument if it's Jimmy
g and I don't know where you have him ranked.
A little bit I have them below the line, then
I feel like the line is quite low, and that's
that's sort of why I started talking about to me
the Dalton scales at a higher level. Now, it's like,
I feel like you can do better than Jimmy G.
Even for me, if it's more in the Cousins Tannehill tier,
You're already potentially down to like the eighteenth, nineteenth best

(42:26):
quarterback in the league. And Jimmy G's just sitting out there.
I feel like he's blah and he's an injury risk,
so that puts him under the line.

Speaker 4 (42:33):
I'm curious, like, how many like Mark, how many guys
do you have as you're above the line. I'm getting
the feeling that I have maybe a little stricter parameters
because I only have twelve that are truly guys that
don't even think about it. You're set there, go find
other ways to improve your roster.

Speaker 3 (42:51):
Where are you at?

Speaker 5 (42:52):
I have more than I have more than that on
above the line. I mean, for me, the line is
a little hazy because I feel like a year ago
I would have every year well, no, a year ago,
like I would have also maybe banged the table for
like Carson Wentz, but he's not a starter right now.
There's these guys that like have floated out of starting material,
someone like Jared Goff, who had a really one of

(43:14):
his best seasons, still stands out as a Dalton type
guy for me. One other person I mentioned who's sort
of in that world below him. I'm not sure what
you have, but he's a figure of mystery after last
year is Mac Jones. He just feels to me like
middle of the pack type of guy who does not
have like the complete and total support of his head coach.

Speaker 4 (43:33):
To begin with, wait, you you kind of artfully dodged
my question like a politician, like is Jared Goff above
your line?

Speaker 6 (43:39):
Like?

Speaker 3 (43:39):
How many people are above your line? Mark?

Speaker 2 (43:42):
Well, my guy? Oh the truth?

Speaker 5 (43:44):
My guy is Ryan Tannehill. So I have him around
like around fifteenth or sixteenth?

Speaker 2 (43:49):
Do you have golf below or above?

Speaker 7 (43:50):
Below?

Speaker 5 (43:51):
But I would rather have Ryan Tannehill, But I just don't.
I'd come away a little mystified by Jared Goff last year,
like is that what's gonna happen with him year after year?

Speaker 7 (44:00):
If so, he's above, but I just don't trust it entirely.

Speaker 3 (44:03):
I got him below.

Speaker 4 (44:04):
Hey, For the two Seahawks fans on this podcast, are
you gino above?

Speaker 3 (44:09):
For both of them?

Speaker 6 (44:11):
Comfortably above?

Speaker 2 (44:12):
Greg I don't want to blow up your spot here,
but you were doing some exercise I don't know if
it's for your podcast where you were ranking quarterbacks for
the next three years. I don't know if that's out there.
But you had Gino quite high, even more than I
would be comfortable with, which I loved, which I absolutely loved.
Like in the top twelve or thirteen, it stuck out.

(44:35):
I remember he was ahead of Watson, who we haven't mentioned. Yeah,
Watson's a weird one. I think you have to put
him over the line for now, like I'm sort of
expecting that he'll come back to a.

Speaker 4 (44:49):
Above average cut point for the record, like he's well
for me. And it was a wait and see aspect
to it. But and obviously it's a complicated situation.

Speaker 2 (44:59):
The other Fields was the other one, and I love
and I love that you have Gino there, and I
would I have Gino close to there too, that he's
above the line.

Speaker 6 (45:07):
You have Fields above Gino.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
They're close. I think I would take Gina.

Speaker 6 (45:12):
I think it would take I knew you pressed you'd
you flip your stance. Let me ask you guys, this,
what about Gino versus Kyler Murray?

Speaker 4 (45:23):
I got Gino comfortably ahead of Kyler. I don't really
Kyler's similar to me. I struggled justin Fields too.

Speaker 3 (45:32):
Yeah, I have him.

Speaker 4 (45:34):
I feel a little weird about that, you know what. Shoot,
I'm gonna put Fields above. I'm gonna do a little
pruning here, so I'm gonna put him. So I got thirteen,
So I have him just above. But then I have
Kyler behind Tua's right below the line. Then Gino, car
Tannehill than Kyler before Jimmy g And I just don't

(45:57):
know what to do with Kyler right now.

Speaker 5 (45:59):
Yeah, I think, like Kyl the athletic gifts are extremely
high on the list in general, But the experience of
Kyler Murray over the last like two seasons, he's above
the line for me. But I'm not sure that an
organization like the Cardinals themselves are completely bought in on
the on the whole thing. I mean, there's just a
lot of evidence that it's a tough quarterback to to

(46:22):
center your team around.

Speaker 2 (46:24):
I'm buying the stock if people are selling on Kyler
at this point, he's still twenty five years old. Like
I do think that his next team might get the
benefit of his maturity increasing.

Speaker 4 (46:36):
And but if we're talking about his next team, then
he's below the line, right.

Speaker 2 (46:40):
If they want to get rid of him, I guess.
But for me he would he would be above it.
I would have him just ahead of Gino, But I guess.
I mean, I'm curious how you see Geno sort of
in the next three years, like him compared to a
cousin's type.

Speaker 6 (46:54):
What what's tricky about Gino is it's a one year
sample size. I feel like I've said sample size like
eight times. But you know, people would argue, well, he
was only good for one year, But unlike a lot
of one hit wonder quarterbacks, he didn't play. That's what
makes it so tricky, is like it legitimately did not
get a shot to do what he did last year

(47:15):
for a very long time in the NFL. So in
some ways that makes me probably higher on him. Maybe
I sound like a homer, but it does make me
higher on him than if he had been playing continuously
for seven years and then suddenly had a big breakout season.
The other thing I like about him is his particular

(47:36):
skill set. He's accurate, he's good in the pocket, he
has a nice deep ball. I think he sees the
field well is those are traits, especially the play in
the clean pocket, that do tend to continue year after year.
Again when we think about one hit wonders. So you know,
for me, he's not the like one of these Shanahan

(47:57):
guys that you know, Garoppolo is my Dalton pick, where
I think he is entirely dependent on situation, and I
think that's why I have him just above in that
second sort of ten to fourteen group.

Speaker 5 (48:13):
I think like his deep passing was one of the
stories of the season last year. I mean, he showed
us that he can do everything, and so I struggled
with the whole concept of him, like weeks into the season,
Greg obviously led the charge on that, but by the
end of the year, it's like, well, yes, I completely
believe in him as a player, more than I ever
would have expected to before. This is also a team

(48:35):
that a parallel universe might have drafted Anthony Richardson, and
suddenly what they say they believe about Geno and what
Geno's arc would be over the next year or two
looks completely different. They just have no other option right now,
and I think they're pretty happy with him. Carol seems
to adore them.

Speaker 2 (48:51):
Right, if we were just looking at a contract Dan,
like the most you know fields is tricky guys on
their first contracts are weird. Watson is almost in a
category to itself. But like the most Dalton scale contracts
out there are Geno, Derek Carr and Golf. Maybe you
throw Daniel Jones in there too, because it was a

(49:12):
two year contract. I know he's getting a lot of money,
but it wasn't.

Speaker 6 (49:15):
Like he's an Interestingly he talked about it.

Speaker 3 (49:17):
Yeah, yeah, there, but it's not.

Speaker 2 (49:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (49:22):
That's why there's a little nuance to this, because that
doesn't mean like where I have him on the list.

Speaker 3 (49:26):
Which is like I don't know, like eighteenth or something.

Speaker 4 (49:29):
I like off in terms of especially what he's done
in Detroit, and he's filled that niche and allowed them to,
through solid play, continue to build that roster up rather
than you know, burn a pick on a QB or
some type of high priced trade of something something along
those lines. But at the same time, like if this

(49:50):
is about finding a franchise quarterback, he's the definition of
a bridge guy. So he's lower in this exercise.

Speaker 3 (49:56):
To me than he is if I'm actually just ranking
quarterbacks and terms of talent level and ability, So.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
Is he below the line for everyone? Golf and car
were the first two names under the line for me,
and it's not just because of the contract, but I
feel like if you those are your guys, you're looking
around for your next guy. And to me, that, by
Chris's definition, is sort of under the line that I'm
not gonna feel I don't even care if Derek Carr

(50:24):
plays well for the Saints this year, I still would
feel like I'm looking for another guy.

Speaker 6 (50:28):
So the line the Dalton has to be you're you're
not looking to move on if you have well.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
Basically, if you're looking for a new franchise quarterback, then
then you're below the line.

Speaker 6 (50:39):
Okay, then then Garoppolo is probably below the line. I
was thinking more about the level of play.

Speaker 2 (50:44):
See, it is complicated, it's always confusing, tricky.

Speaker 6 (50:49):
GoF is a pretty good because I think the way
Detroit views him and the way they're acting and the
way the fan base is reflects exactly what you're describing,
which is a team divided about whether or not they
should move on.

Speaker 4 (51:02):
Just for housekeeping here and then I want to tee
up Mina before we wrap things up on a player
that we haven't discussed yet. So the first player above
the line, Mina, you had Jimmy G. But you're gonna
drop him, So who would be yours?

Speaker 3 (51:17):
Now?

Speaker 2 (51:17):
Jimmy G was your line right right?

Speaker 6 (51:19):
It was my line Tannehill right above him. I'm gonna
shift it to tanne Okay, Tannehill.

Speaker 4 (51:25):
I have Watson, which is I don't know, a little
bit of a cop out, but listen, deal with it.

Speaker 3 (51:33):
Mark, you have I had Tannehill too, Tannehill, Greg.

Speaker 2 (51:37):
You're talking about above the line or first.

Speaker 3 (51:39):
Guy above the line before?

Speaker 2 (51:40):
A first guy above the line for me was Tannehill
as well.

Speaker 5 (51:43):
Interesting, I mean Tannehill also, I believe could actually be
a great definition of what we're looking for. But Golf
maybe right below him?

Speaker 3 (51:53):
That's good.

Speaker 4 (51:54):
And then the two first two names below the line.
For me, it was too and Gino. What was it
for you guys?

Speaker 3 (52:02):
Ah? That hurts? Sorry?

Speaker 2 (52:05):
Uh mineor golf and Car and that I didn't even
get to Daniel Jones. It sounds like we all have
Daniel Jones below the line, which is kind of crazy
because he just got it.

Speaker 5 (52:13):
I'm with you on Twitter at Car Derek Carr is
a really attractive Dalton candidate to me, but he's below.

Speaker 7 (52:18):
He's a little bit below the line.

Speaker 6 (52:21):
I'll go Jimmy g right below.

Speaker 4 (52:24):
We did not talk about players without a ton of reps.
So you know, Brock Purdy obviously, Trey Lance, Desmond Ritter,
those guys are a little TBA. But Mina, there's one
player out of Pittsburgh, a first round pick a year ago.
Mark famously on the show recently said the Steelers are

(52:46):
potentially dominant force in the NFL in the upcoming season.

Speaker 2 (52:49):
For that to happen, you would think, Famously like, did
you guys do a segment about that?

Speaker 5 (52:52):
And like, no, I think they when they have a
bad year, they will still win nine games. That they
have an interesting young offense.

Speaker 7 (52:59):
I said, they're.

Speaker 5 (53:00):
Gonna win twelve, and if it it comes true, I'll
talk about it all year.

Speaker 7 (53:03):
Otherwise, no one will remember.

Speaker 4 (53:05):
Kenny Pickett men at times now where like kind of
projecting ahead what you see in store for his career?
Where would he fall on an exercise like this, let's
you know, project three years from now.

Speaker 6 (53:17):
Well, I just watched some Kenny Pickett because I'm talking
about him a little bit on my pod, and I
just kind of want because the Steelers offensive numbers in
the final month and a half of the season were
actually really good, and I kind of wanted to understand why.
And my memory of watching him at the end was
that he looked better than actually I expected pre draft.

(53:41):
I thought there were things that he flashed that I
really liked. I thought he was more of a playmaker
than maybe I would have anticipated. He's he plays surprisingly
well under pressure. He was attacking downfield more than I
would have guessed. There were things that I did not like.
I thought the accuracy was a little bit spotty, especially
intermediate areas of the field. I thought he still held

(54:04):
on the football way too long, which was a thing
he had problems with in college. And some of the
decision making was a little bit suspect. Part of the
reason I'm like kind of optimistic about him is the
things I describe, particularly the holding on football and the
decision making. I think those are things that he can
improve upon. It's an incomplete for me. You know, there's

(54:24):
a lot of young players on that offense, still offensive
line in flux, with a lot of new starters. Speaking
of sus An offensive coordinator that I know Pittsburgh fans
seem to loathe. But you know, I have n't blown
the line, but with a big caveat that, we don't
know yet, and I think I'll be ready to make

(54:45):
a judgment after this season because of some of the improvements.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
He does profile a little bit as a guy who
could be a candidate for the line. I mean that
was the whole risk of that entire quarterback class though,
and why he went where he did was like, maybe
the ceiling is a Kirk Cousins type career and he'll
hill and that would be great. He would, you know,
set up the picket family for generations, the.

Speaker 6 (55:05):
Picket fence you called the picket fence.

Speaker 2 (55:08):
Oh man, But he might not be a top ten quarterback.
It's harder to be a top ten quarterback right now.

Speaker 3 (55:13):
Well, it's so good picket fence.

Speaker 4 (55:16):
I would say, get the trademark application out for that.
Just a quick aside here because it just crossed my desk.
The Washington Commander's trademark application was denied. According to Josh
Gurban on Twitter, the US Patent and Trademark Office denied
the application for the name Commanders. The reason for the

(55:38):
denial was one the existence of a trademark for Commander's
Classic and two pending applications filed by a man in
the DC area. The Commander's Classic is the name of
an annual college football game between Army and Air Force,
so this is very current or soon to be ex ownership.

(55:58):
They did not clear the trade mark of the name,
so they might be changing their name joth Eisman, whether
you like it or not, buddy, because they don't even
have a trade bark on it.

Speaker 5 (56:07):
I mean, I recognize they're one of the most incompetent
organizations around, but how do you how do we even
get to this point without that having been legally the favorite?

Speaker 2 (56:18):
We got to go back to the team.

Speaker 6 (56:20):
We got back to the team.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
Yes, yes, it's coming back.

Speaker 6 (56:25):
Such a good name.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
Wait, can we I do want to throw out one
name we haven't even mentioned, because you know, he did
get like one hundred and forty million dollars guaranteed, and
his team did trade I think three first round picks
and two second round picks like Russell Wilson didn't even
come up as like an option here. I guess we
all assume he's below the line. But I just wanted
to enter that for the record.

Speaker 4 (56:49):
What I had a different years, Jimmy g and Daniel
Jones comfortably below the line.

Speaker 2 (56:57):
I have him below Mac and Pickett because at least
I think Mac and pick it and I'm not giving
up on Macki's below the line, but I think he
has a chance, like at least I think they have
a better chance to get there below.

Speaker 6 (57:09):
Yeah, he's below, he's near it. So the thing that
I was ranking quarterbacks for the next three years, I
had a lot of trouble getting Russell Wilson out of
my bottom five. And it's it's context doesn't matter, So
I don't care that Sean Payton is going to probably
make him look better.

Speaker 4 (57:25):
It's you're you're a good person to ask me, you know,
as we kind of wrap up this chat, obviously you
watched him more closely than anyone during his Seahawks run,
and we all know we don't need to rehash everything
that went wrong last year in Denver, but it literally
was everything. Do you get the vibe with a better

(57:46):
coordinator and you know, a year removed from the wreckage,
that he could be someone we're talking about at the
line or closer to it. Next year, or do you
think come back the year irreversible decline At.

Speaker 6 (57:58):
This point, I mean Sean Payton in his final years
with the ghost of Drew Brees still called a top
five offense in the NFL, So I'm not betting against
that man. I think people also downplayed the number of
injuries on that Broncos offensive line, Jonton Williams even like
Tim Patrick. I know that sounds like an excuse, but

(58:19):
I thought was going to be an important part of
that offense. So I think they'll be better. But as
far as Russell Wilson's decline, that's been happening. It was
happening for a couple of years before the trade, so
I don't expect any sort of dramatic reversal. I think
the question is can he just make him look semi competent?

Speaker 2 (58:39):
A nice little roster they got like six receivers deep
semi competent?

Speaker 3 (58:43):
What did remember what they gave up to get them in.
Now you have football expert Mina Kaim saying can they
get him semi competent?

Speaker 6 (58:52):
I think they can.

Speaker 2 (58:53):
Now we've got him buried. We've got him buried below
Golf and car and Daniel Jones. I mean I did too.

Speaker 6 (58:59):
I'm just I mean, I think they can get out
of it for this year. You know they it's expensive, But.

Speaker 4 (59:04):
I have him above Jones, Mac Daniel, really, Goff and Baker,
you go above Golf? Yeah, Gofa again, it's I guess
I'm looking at it a little differently.

Speaker 3 (59:17):
I like GoF but not in this exercise.

Speaker 2 (59:20):
I feel like, yeah, the Giants fans and are going
to be second in terms of getting annoyed at this exercise,
behind the Dolphins fans. So should we are we proposing
who the scale is? Are we doing? Are we are
we doing that?

Speaker 4 (59:35):
I mean, I'm not gonna fight it. If it's if
three out of four have Tannehill and he's pretty close.

Speaker 2 (59:39):
But that's above the line. I thought we're looking for
the line. You know, there's someone That's the whole thing
with Dalton was he wasn't one or the other.

Speaker 4 (59:47):
I've always thought, like, you know, as the last couple
of years and after West, like the line is just
Andy Dalton.

Speaker 3 (59:55):
I don't know, but I feel.

Speaker 4 (59:56):
Like he was a once one in a million guy,
and the the best we can do is find someone
who approximates and gets close to that, but I don't.
I don't know, Like I think Tannahill is as close
as as it comes personally. But you guys see us
a little bit a tick above.

Speaker 6 (01:00:13):
It's right, it's the Tannehill. For me, you're either climbing
up or climbing down.

Speaker 7 (01:00:18):
I like Tannahill is this.

Speaker 5 (01:00:20):
If tannel Hill and golf could have a baby, that
would be the perfect like interception point there for me.

Speaker 2 (01:00:26):
This I disagree. I'm close. Golf has to be part
of it, and it would be a very you know,
classically handsome baby, but maybe just but not like great
vite and Cousins like that's the Tanna scale. They embody
the spirit. I think this is Cousins' destiny and I think, yeah,
that's my proposal. It's a Cousin's golf baby.

Speaker 3 (01:00:47):
Is the time?

Speaker 4 (01:00:48):
Another earlier in the show, you said that Jimmy g
and Teddy Bridgewater would.

Speaker 3 (01:00:53):
Make like a really hot person.

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):
That fine.

Speaker 3 (01:00:56):
I bumped up against that a little bit.

Speaker 6 (01:00:57):
You're fine, it's a little the Teddy bias creeping in.
I think a little bit.

Speaker 3 (01:01:04):
All right, unbelievable. I think we've done important work here, Mina.
You've said it all. Do you have any plugs stage yet.

Speaker 6 (01:01:15):
This next week actually is when I'm doing the quarterbacks
on my podcast Menachim Show featuring Lenny So yeah, check
it out if you don't already.

Speaker 3 (01:01:25):
And is it you?

Speaker 4 (01:01:26):
Can you confirm that if people find the Hunting and
Fishing Show from nineteen ninety two six am, you will
see a very young Mina chimes in that boat putting
worms on a hook.

Speaker 6 (01:01:40):
I'm really not on ESPN that often right now. It's
the off season, so well, I am on in about
two hours on NFL Live.

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
But do you know how to fish?

Speaker 3 (01:01:50):
She didn't die it.

Speaker 6 (01:01:51):
I have been fishing before, hunting, no.

Speaker 7 (01:01:55):
Catch anything good.

Speaker 6 (01:01:57):
It was with von Miller and I caught a fish
and he didn't brag. What a boast?

Speaker 4 (01:02:04):
Is it?

Speaker 3 (01:02:04):
Von an outdoorsman, isn't he he is?

Speaker 6 (01:02:06):
Yeah, he is an outdoorsman. That's not great for the story.

Speaker 2 (01:02:11):
Yeah, that's like the only person ever that's only gone fishing.
One said it was.

Speaker 3 (01:02:16):
With Von Miller.

Speaker 6 (01:02:18):
I have a lot of answers like that.

Speaker 3 (01:02:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:02:20):
I was gonna say fishing sucks, but we already have
enough people mad at us, so we don't need to.

Speaker 3 (01:02:26):
Yeah, all right, thank you Mina for everything.

Speaker 4 (01:02:29):
And listeners know that it is a holiday weekend coming
up Memorial Day, so we will not be taping on Monday,
but we will be back on Tuesday. So don't worry
for all the people that need that late May content,
it is coming your way. Just hold tight and thank

(01:02:50):
you again, Mina.

Speaker 3 (01:02:51):
That's it.

Speaker 4 (01:02:51):
Dan Hands is signing off for Quiet Storm, the old
boss Mina Times and yes, the official and outspent for
the new Prime Meridian kind of this. Maybe Tannehillport or
maybe Kirk Cousins.

Speaker 11 (01:03:08):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:03:10):
One of them until next time.

Speaker 3 (01:03:13):
He's the cap