Today on NFL Total Access, I am joined by 13-year NFL Veteran Jason McCourty who hosts this year’s NFL 360 BHM special. Also joining us is Emmy Award-winning producer Osahon Tongo, as we delve into two remarkable stories that echo through time.
First up, "The Flyest Ever", the history & legacy of the Tuskegee Airmen and the untold tales behind these pioneers who soared through the skies against all odds.
Then, we journey to "The Chief Who Walked the Sea," an 1803 slave rebellion set against the backdrop of the birthplace of NFL legend Jim Brown. Jason McCourty and Osahon Tongo share their insights into this forgotten chapter, exploring the resilience and resistance of those who chose freedom over enslavement.
Join us for a captivating episode that transcends football, delving into two pivotal periods of American history. These are stories that need to be told and narratives you need to hear. Don't miss the NFL 360 Black History Special, premiering on NFL Network Tuesday, February 6th, at 8 PM ET.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
NFL Total Access is a production of the NFL in
partnership with iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
It's Monday, February fifth, and you're listening it to an
NFL Total Access the podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Those are the voices of today's special guest. Voice number one,
a thirteen year NFL veteran drafted by the Titans. He's
also the pride of the Browns, the Dolphins, and the Patriots,
with whom he won his Super Bowl ring. You can
catch his soft spoken but hard truths every morning on
NFL Network because this man is the co host of
Good Morning Football. This man is Jason mccordy.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Welcome to the pod, sir, oh, and you appreciate you
having me Matt.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Voice number two is a director and a documentarian, a
writer and producer who dabbles brilliantly in the world of
virtual reality, but gives no quarter in the world of
actual reality. He's an Emmy winner, a former college football player.
Illinois by birth, Nigeria by blood. Voice number two, who
belongs to Osahan Tongo, Welcome to you, sir.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
Thanks Andrew. This is a great You know, that was
a great I really.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Appreciate Jason doesn't give that to you when you walk
in a room that all no, damn right, he doesn't.
I'm your host, NFL Networks Senior writer Andrew Lavy, and
I am honored to welcome Jason and Osahan to the
show today because these podcast debutants are here to promote
the NFL three sixty Black History Month special, which will
air listener tomorrow night. That's Tuesday night on NFL Network,
(01:28):
eight pm Eastern. Some of you, I hope, saw last
year's NFL three sixty Black History Month special on the
Indelible Legacy of Jimmy Ray. You've heard Jimmy Ray's name
mentioned on this pod before because of Michael Robinson talked
about his old coach and friend Jimmy Ray, reminding him
why do you work for a super Bowl so that
you can put your name in indelible ink? Well, these
(01:48):
guys did a special about Jimmy Ray, and that show
one an Emmy Osahan directed, Jason hosted. So clearly this
is a combo that works, but not just for honors,
for unforget edible material, characters in our world that we
have to meet, stories in our world that we have
to hear. This year, gentlemen, is no exception. I want
to start with a story that is the primary focus
(02:10):
of tomorrow Night's NFL three sixty. It's about history and impact.
It's about legacy and about change. It's about pride and permanence.
It's about the Tuskegee Airmen. Now, listener, if you're like me,
you will sit up and swear this is a story
you know. But I am humbled to report that what
I thought I knew is merely an introduction to the
depth and breadth of what I needed to know. Jason,
(02:33):
I want to start with you because I understand you
had encouraged your eight year old son to read up
on the Tuskegee Airmen not long before you got the
call about this show. Now, that kind of coincidence. In
my family we call a God moment. Why Tuskegee for
your son?
Speaker 3 (02:49):
The summer reading? And you know, if you have kids
that are older and they get to that phase.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Where the summerheads and all they want to do as
go outside and play or get on the screen and
get on their iPads. I tried to encourage my three
kids this past summer where we went to our local
library and they loved the who Is books where you
could go on and don't know different sports heroes for him.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Tom Brady is his guy.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
But he picked out a book on Lebron James, so
he got to pick out a book.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
We both read the book and then we'd have a conversation.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
So as I'm going through different books, I'm trying to
educate them on different things.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
And for whatever reason.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Tuskegee Airman jumped out to me that given day, so
took it home.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
He read it.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
We had a conversation about it, and it was so
cool because he's eight years old and to see things
through his lens and how he listens to it and
comprehends it and where he goes from it to questions
and all of that.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
It was a great conversation.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
And fast forward months later getting a call to help
obviously Osahan do them all the work with an amazing
story and helping just bring it to light and using
that platform was just such a coincidence that I couldn't
say no to that.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
O Sahan, you made what was an inspired decision to
make Major Tim Jefferson Junior the ostensible sort of leaders
storyteller of this piece. Now some of us remember him
Listener as the star quarterback for the Air Force Academy.
You invite us to meet the man who, after his
time on the gridiron Osahan, became a bomber pilot. And
(04:12):
in your incredible piece here Major Jefferson goes on a
journey across America to learn about the legendary Tuskegee Airman.
This is a hard question to answer. What did he learn?
Speaker 4 (04:23):
What did he learn?
Speaker 5 (04:24):
I mean, it was the breath of knowledge, right, So
we started off the dock by him actually touching round
on Mountain Field where everything happened, where the program, the
experiment what they called it, actually started right, so he
learned about the reason why it was important for us
to even have the quote unquote experiment because the Army
(04:44):
War College in nineteen twenty five wrote a memo saying
that black pilots are black fighters in war were not
smart enough to fight, They didn't have the courage. It
was just a damning letter about them. But I mean
he went from there to Gigee. We went during homecoming.
We saw the culture of the university, Booker T. Washington
(05:05):
and everything that happened there. And then we even met
two one hundred year old tuske Gearman. Right, we got
to actually touch these legends and talk to them and
really really sit down and have a moment with these heroes.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
Really, I mean, one of them.
Speaker 5 (05:20):
He wore John Glenn's spacesuit into the atmosphere. So he
was basically the test dummy for John glenn spacesuit, right,
Like the flyest Ever is a title that kind of
came when you're doing stuff like this, right, So, I mean,
he did all of these different things, and I can
go on for days, but I mean it was just
an amazing moment, and I learned in the process as well.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
I'm curious to know in your experience with those two centurions,
those two hundred year old Tuskegee Airmen. First of all,
what an incredible thing to be able just to be
in their presence, to be with somebody who has touched
a part of our historical record as Americans that we
can only think about, dream about and read about. You
(06:01):
were there with somebody who was there, I should think, Well,
I want to know are they aware? Do they know?
Do they carry with them the understanding and the knowledge
of just how important to our world, to our country
they were? Do they know it?
Speaker 5 (06:15):
I think at the time they knew they were doing something,
and they did something for black people in America more
than anything, right, Like they help win the war. I
mean they're exporting bombers at the alarming rate where they're
not losing bombers at all. Right, compared to other people
who wanted to be hot shots and get killed, they
were the most disciplined crew because they had to be.
(06:37):
They were stuck together for a year before they even
got to go out. So by the time they got
combat action, they were a well oiled machine and they
were really disciplined. But when they came back, there was
no ticker tape parade, there was no Hey, they couldn't
vote when they came back. So you risked your life
for your country. You saw your brother and die. You
fought as hard as you're one of the smartest people
(06:59):
in the world far as like you can. You went
to college and now you're you're flying airplanes, and then
you come back, you're an officer.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
People are not saluting you. We are not doing that.
Speaker 5 (07:07):
So some of these Tuskey gear men, they came home
and just had whatever jobs like they didn't They weren't
really embraced. But then to this day, when I sat
with these guys. They knew, Hey, what we did was important.
And Harvey, he has the pride, he has the personality,
he knows. He's like, yeah, I was the best. I
(07:27):
won the first top gun meet. I'm telling you I'm
the best.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
Just give me a shot. But they all were really
humble at the end of the day.
Speaker 5 (07:36):
They were really humble, and they you know, all that
stuff is in the past and they live every day,
and they just kept on living and they looked it up.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
And now here we are.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Listener, you heard Osahan describe what he called and what
history calls that tuskegeek experiment. Just think about that word experiment.
How insulting a word that is, for what it means,
for what it meant to choose that word, that this
was an experiment. Well, we'll see, we'll see. There was
resistance to training black pilots, resistance that was born out
(08:08):
of fear and prejudice and pure simple racism, racism that
was formalized codified in the memo issued by the Army
War College that Osahan told us about. And that resistance,
like the countless examples of resistance to inclusion black men
and women have experienced and continue to experience in our
world was met with courage, beaten back with defiance, and erased,
(08:32):
at least in that space, with excellence.
Speaker 6 (08:36):
The Tsking experiment.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Was the term that was derived.
Speaker 7 (08:43):
From the theory that the black man was infuria and
would not stand up in war.
Speaker 8 (08:51):
Section five The combat characteristics of the Negro bullet to
An opinion held in common by practically all officers is
that the negro is a rank coward in the dark.
He cannot control himself in the fear of danger to
the extent the white man can. He has not the
initiative and resourcefulness of the white man. He is mentally
(09:16):
inferior to the white man.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
The experiment sixty three pages of garbage.
Speaker 7 (09:26):
We couldn't do anything, according to them.
Speaker 5 (09:29):
We couldn't fly aircraft, we couldn't operate heavy machinery.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
We're inferior to the white man.
Speaker 9 (09:35):
When I see a study like this, it helps me
to understand what we have been up against since slavery,
since before slavery.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Jason mccordy. Legacies like that of the Tuskegee Airman. Where
does your mind in spirit go? Is it pride? Is
it pain? I imagine it can never just be one thing.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Yeah, I think pride would be the one.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
But you try to put yourselves yourself and their shoes
and think about what it had to be like for
them to go through that entire experience. And obviously you
look at the experiment and how disrespectful and how much
they put them down, but the thought of carrying a
legacy that goes so far beyond not only you and
(10:20):
your family, but what they had to represent, and ol
Saha said it like they protected the bomber pilots because
they felt like they.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Had to because throughout their entire.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Lives to get to where they got, like they couldn't
make a mistake.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
You couldn't go.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Out there and try to become a pilot at that
time and have one slip up and be late for
something or get one wrong answer. They had to be
damn near perfect to be able to achieve those things.
Speaker 6 (10:44):
So you just think about how hard we choose and
dream and strive to get to the goals that we
come up with, and how many times we fall short
of it and we dust ourselves off and we get
back up and we try again to get to whatever
point we're in in our lives.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
So for them to think at that time, you wanted.
Speaker 6 (11:01):
To do something that was impossible for anybody that was
around you.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
But then you were able to conquer a succeed and
be better than a lot of people with so much
less resources and so many odds stacked againt you. I
think pride is a thing that stands out for most
just because you think about those men, what they had
to go through, how they still came out on top.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
You are listening to NFL Total Access to podcast. I'm
your host, NFL Network senior writer Andrew Lavy with me
today Jason mccordy and Osa Hontango, host and producer and
director of tomorrow night to NFL three sixty Black History
Month Special. The story we're talking about is the primary
focus of this special. This is a special ninety minute
(12:00):
episode of NFL three sixty, This Black History Month Special
tomorrow that's Tuesday night on NFL Network, eight pm Eastern.
Do it for yourself, do it for your families, watch
it live, record it. You can see it on NFL
Plus or on NFL dot com later. Just make sure
that you get this material in front of you, in
your eyes and in your ears, because it will find
(12:21):
its way into your heart. The story we're talking about
now is called fly is Dever and gentlemen, as we
sit here today six days from Super Bowl fifty eight,
one of the many ways in which your story has
the power to affect us, to make us think forever differently,
is about the Super Bowl pregame flyover O. Sahan. This
year's flyover will be conducted by the famous Thunderbirds pilots,
(12:44):
who are considered among the best pilots in the world.
And yet it's more than that, they are in fact
a living testament to the power of the Tuskegee legacy.
Please explain.
Speaker 5 (12:54):
Oh yeah, so, I mean, as you said, they're flying
over the Super Bowl this year, and they're the best
of the best, I mean crew and take do auditions
for months to get these best pilots from all over
the military, to really show the excellence and precision within
the military. But at the same time, this woman have
even come about if Benjamin O'Davis, who was the first
(13:17):
class of tuske Gearman, he was the squadron commander and
became a general in the military, and Benjamin O. Davis
Junior actually staffed the package for the Thunderbirds, came up with, Hey,
we need to do this to help recruit people to
become pilots in the military and inspire the country, especially
with the you know, crisis of confidence and all these
(13:39):
different things that we talk about in our nation. We
need something to pull us together. And when you go
to a game and you see the flyover and you
feel it right after the national anthem, you're like America,
you know, like you're screaming it from the bowels. You
know that you love this game and this is the
most patriotic and unifying moment in sports. And to think
(13:59):
that this year in Super Bowl fifty eight in Las Vegas,
the same place that you know, James Harvey won the
first top gun meet, We're gonna have Thunderbirds fly over
and carry that flag, and fly the flag of the
Tuski year men, and write that history through the skies
over one of the greatest monuments to America. Is just
(14:22):
a it's a really humbling experience. It's really amazing to
think about the testimony that they're doing just by even existing.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Typically, listener, if you're familiar with the Thunderbirds, we were
used to a six plane formation. I think that will
likely be the case. On Sunday two of those six
pilots on Sunday Black Pilots important to point out Jason
as a player in a Super Bowl, the flyover is
more than punctuation and pageantry. It's a moment of power
(14:50):
in which your career, in your case, your career flashed
in front of your eyes. Take us to that moment,
tell us that story.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Yeah. For me and my career ended up playing thirteen
years in the NFL. The year I got a chance
to playing the Super Bowl was year ten. In the
first nine years of my career consisted of zero playoff games,
two winning seasons, a season that incorporated zero wins.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
So it was a lot of adversity to get to
that point to be in.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
A Super Bowl, got to do it alongside my twin
brother as well. And when I think about the flyover
and the noise and the sound of what it signifies
and everything Osahana said, it was completely right. And for
the players, when you're down there on that field and
your helmets off and we do the national anthem and
the flyover happens, at that moment, you know everything You're
(15:38):
thinking of your career, your family, all of those emotions
where you almost have tears rolling down your eyes. As
soon as that flyover happens, it's like, all right, it's
game time. Everything I've done, the work I put in,
the adversity I've gone through individually as a team, it's
all come to this moment to get to the mountain top.
So that flyover is just such a special moment for
(15:58):
everybody that's in the stadium and night given moment.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
For the people sitting in the crowd, they think about
what it took for them.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
To get to a super Bowl and positively watching their
favorite team and put the players down there on the field.
It's a moment that you won't get back because whether
you win or lose that game, those group of men
and women that signify a team or an organization, they'll
never be the same again.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Listener, when this year's flyover rattles Allegiance Stadium and lifts
our eyes and our spirits to the heavens, do not
let that moment pass without thinking about who is in
those seats and what it took for them to get there,
And do not let that moment be a disappointing reminder
that you forgot to record NFL three sixty Black History
(16:39):
Month Special Tomorrow night that's Tuesday night, eight pm Eastern
on NFL Network. Flys to Ever. That is the name
of the piece about the Tuskegee Airmen that Jason and
Osahan have just been talking about. After the break, Jason
and Osahan will tell us about an extraordinary piece of
history and poetry that you will see in that NFL
(17:00):
three sixty special. It's called The Chief Who Walked the Sea,
and it's coming up after the break on NFL Total Access,
the podcast you are listening to NFL Total Access the
(17:30):
podcast Andrew Label with Jason mccordy and Osahan Tongo, host
and director of tomorrow night's NFL three sixty Black History
Month special. Before you guys leave, I have to ask
you about The Chief who Walked the Sea. This is
a six minute journey into a forgotten moment in history
and how that moment, that extraordinary event, both for what
(17:52):
it was and for where it was birthed an NFL
story we all think we know quite well the story
of Brown. Oh Sahan, please tell us about this haunting
and thrilling work, and it is an equal measure both
of those things, haunting and thrilling. The Chief who Walked
the Sea.
Speaker 4 (18:11):
Thank you.
Speaker 5 (18:11):
So it really focuses on Jim Brown and his legacy. Right,
So Jim Brown passed last year, and when we were
thinking about ideas for NFL three sixty this season, you know,
I've known about this story called Ebo Landing, Right. It
was a slave revault that happened, and people talk about it.
(18:32):
Tony Morrison has an amazing story about it. And then
also it's turned into a fairy tale, so there's children's
books about it, and then there's kill Manger talks about
it when he talks about burying me in the ocean,
like my ancestors who didn't want to be in shackles
in slavery. Right, So it's an act of resistance in
resilience because they fought their captors and threw them over overboard.
(18:55):
But when they saw on the shore there was a
death in slavery waiting for him, they decided to do
a mass suicide. But what the story passed on as
because they couldn't find all the bodies in the ocean
is turned into they flew into the sky or walked
their way through the Middle passes back to Africa. So
(19:16):
that place was celebrated and Galla Geechee people are a
strong community in the low country of America, in the
Golden Isle from Jacksonville, North Carolina to Jacksonville, Florida. Right,
So those people Gulla Gala Island, you might have heard it.
They hold this story and you have people like Harriet
Tubman that was moving up the underground railroad and they
(19:38):
would sing these spirituals that would really bring in this
story about flying Africans and that's when they would know
to kind of leave and go up north. So it's
a story of resilience and resistance, very much parallel to
Jim Brown's life as he left football and went into
civil rights activism and went into Hollywood. And just use
(20:00):
this platform and a mare I can these stories fell
to me parallel. So we will use animation to do
some of the recreation and the storytelling through a Grio
queen quette, Gulligiche chief Thiss. She really helped set the
stage and then we kind of flow in between animation
and live action and really did a beautiful, enchanting journey
(20:23):
through the two stories to try and pay homage to
Jim Brown and his legacy as well as the Gulagichee
people and the people of Ebo.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Culture listener, if you're like me and my wife, we
celebrate stories of some of our favorite artists, artists like
Jay Z who are famous for going into the recording
studio and no pen no pencil, no paper, and just
kind of spitting what's at the tip of their tongue.
Well in a very real way. Queen Quette that you
just mentioned does that in this piece. You gave her
(20:54):
kind of a general thesis for what you wanted, and
she spit this like it was final track.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
And the rebellion broke out on board the slave ship,
and those that had been chained and marching in.
Speaker 6 (21:10):
Together, they said, all of a sudden, the spirits released,
the fighting continued.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
They never ceased.
Speaker 7 (21:19):
Everybody looked up into the sky and they sat on
that day.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
They saw our ancestors.
Speaker 7 (21:26):
Fly, the sun kissed midnight and back again. For days,
they prayed for heaven, sent.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
For knights. They rolled until their blood fate bestowed upon.
Speaker 7 (21:47):
Them, again and again and again. Chains glistened on their
soft and royal skin, crippling resolution, rippling the sea, which
sparked a play for the ocean within met with the
(22:11):
sin at the shawmine, and the tides began to turn.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
It's an extraordinary moment of creation that we see. In
addition to this celebration of an historical moment that takes
place there, it's an eighteen o three slave rebellion, which
is important for you to know about. It's important for
you to know what happened, what happened next, and where
it happened, and where it happened Saint Simon's Am I
(22:38):
getting it in Saint Simon's Island, And Jason mccordy remind
me who was born on Saint Simon's Island.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
The guy you just mentioned, mister Jim Brown.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
I'm curious as a player, you know, the more thoughtful
players that we meet, and we're so lucky in this
building at NFL Network to meet so many thoughtful players
and former players like you, Jason mccordy. I know that
the legacy of Jim Brown just purely football. Let's take
this story out of the room for just one moment,
just purely as a football player who honors history and
(23:12):
worked hard enough to be a part of history as
you did thirteen years in the league. It's an extraordinary accomplishment.
The name Jim Brown is not simply a name. I
can't imagine it ever would be simply a name.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
For you.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Tell me what Jim Brown means to you.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Jim Brown means so much.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
And I got a chance to play for the Browns,
as you mentioned, for one season, and Jim Brown had
his own office in a facility. You'd often see him
walking around. There are times where we were beyond the
road trips that he was there. There were times that
he addressed the team as well. I think what Jim
Brown meant and for me, I obviously never got a
chance to watch Jim Brown play live, but you could
go on his highlights and he looked so different being
(23:50):
out there playing the game of football. And you hear
people talk about how dominant he was throughout his career.
That could have lasted much longer if he chose to
contain and focus on football, And I think that's what
makes them so special to so many players, especially a
black player that played in our league, because you know,
when Jim Brown was playing, he was also breaking down
barriers within our country, and he was standing up for
(24:12):
things that weren't popular at the same time and willing
to risk his career. And he also moved on to
do movies and to do so many different things outside
of just the game of football. So I think when
you look at Jim Brown for a player that played
in the NFL, he's inspiration because he was one of
the best to ever do it when it came to
putting the helmet all. But then also he was willing
(24:32):
to fight for things that he believed in off over
the field, and I think that's inspiration for players, especially
at different times throughout our careers or throughout our country
where you're frowned upon and almost can get things taken
away from you for standing up for what you believe.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
In the story of this eighteen oh three rebellion, in
which these soon to be slaves, already captive, already in change,
they were already enslaved overcame their captors, but chose to
die instead of live in chains, instead of live as property.
The beautiful lines that you will hear, Their sorrow formed
(25:08):
a storm in the soul powered sky, and it cried,
and it melted all the darkness. Ancestors tears poured down
sweet nectar rain, and they sent their seed, and a
star was made. And that star is Jim Brown. And
we are talking about a story from eighteen oh three
and a legacy born out of that moment in eighteen
(25:30):
oh three, and talking about the blood soaked clay that
became the foundation, became the spot on which this star
Jim Brown was made. I'm brought to I'm moved by
the words that you so beautifully wrote, Osahan. I'm also
moved by the reality of resistance. I think the very
(25:50):
word sometimes people find triggering, and yet it is such
an important part of who Jim Brown was. It's such
an important part of what this story ishan that you
are bringing to us. Jason, I'll start with you, I'll
finish with o Sahan. The notion of resistance, resistance to templates,
resistance to paradigms, resistance to assumptions about what you are
(26:12):
and what you should be. How important a living legacy
is the resistance of this eighteen oh three rebellion.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Well, when you mentioned resistance and then you say the
words legacy, and I think of belief, And I think
when you find people that are willing to go through
resistance to get things corrected, to get things moving in
the right way, it usually starts with a sense of
belief and something I think that goes a long way.
And the stories that you're going to see, and that
piece tomorrow night is going to show you people that
(26:41):
were willing to resist the things that were going on
around them for what they knew was going to be
a better life, not only for themselves. It wasn't selflessly motivated,
but it was about different people that it was going
to impact at that time and for the future to come.
So I think whether you're talking about the evil people
and the Gulagichi people having a sense of pride for
what done in eighteen o three, or you're talking about
(27:02):
the Tuskegee Airmen who were willing to stand up for
what was right and being willing to go out there
and fight for their country, you're going to see people
that met resistance. And I think this story is so
special as much as it was then as it is now,
because there are things that go on where you have
somebody that might be afraid to step out on their
own and be willing to meet resistance because they don't
(27:22):
know if there's anyone that's going to support them. And
I think it's important to see, especially this month represent
Black History Month, because there's so many people out there
that don't know which way to go, and I think
seeing the story of inspiration from people that came before them,
they can see that history repeat themselves and they could
be somebody that's willing to step out on faith for
something they believe in to change the world around.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
A giant spawn from bloodstained clay, a newborn golden child,
James Nathaniel Brown. Like the chief who walked the sea
and brought the shadows to their knees, came a man
who bore the spark that made the flames that slayed
the dark. This is an original poem, part of which
was written by you O Sahan. It is absolutely beautiful
(28:05):
and powerful work. It reveals the greatness of Jim Brown
as a man, a man who embodied power and truth
and spoke truth to power at a time when it
was inconvenient for a lot of people for that to
be the case. This is a blending also of live
action and animation. This is an art piece, This is
a thought piece. This is an historical piece. This is
(28:26):
a piece you need to hear. Why is this story
important to tell and necessary to hear?
Speaker 6 (28:33):
Well?
Speaker 5 (28:33):
First, I want to make sure that everyone knows. Bianca
Leonora Kenyonez was a co writer on this piece and
she really brought poetry. She's a Grammy nominated singer songwriter
as well, so you know, she really brought the elegance
to the piece. I just want to give her her probles.
But I think, you know, I think this story was
(28:57):
something that had to exist because we have had to
birth it in.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
It was going.
Speaker 5 (29:02):
It had to come through me as the vessel to
birth it in. We had to collaborate with all these
people to bring it to life. Because we often hear
a lot of stories of subjugation or slavery or whatever,
but we never hear about people fighting back. We never
hear about resilience and resistance. We never hear about the
ingenuity it took to to overcome some of these things
(29:24):
for us to be where we are. We just get
a blink of the darkness that happen, and we don't
feel the process. We don't see and honor the people
who actually fil back that give you the courage.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
To fight back as well.
Speaker 5 (29:35):
I think in this moment in time, we're seeing a
lot of different things politically across the world that people
are fighting back and trying to have sovereignty over their
own lives. And I think what we are looking to
do is sing a song of faith, sing a song
of liberty, and make sure that it is voiced by
(29:57):
the people that really need to hear. And it's coming
from It's coming from the Heart's coming from the soul.
It's really peeking through because you know you're saying you're
talking about resilience, you're talking about resistance. It's this is
a piece of resistance within the framework of sports media.
Like nobody's doing animation, poetry, live action photography that looks
(30:20):
like this, that really takes I've seen one hundred Jim
Brown documentaries. I've never seen anything that touched on the
soil that he comes from with poetry and such grace.
So I think this is something that can be like
Mount Fuji, Right, it just exists right, So it doesn't matter,
it doesn't bend left or right. It exists to exist
(30:41):
because it's great and it should stand there. And much
like NFL three sixty in the landscape of sports media
as well, it exists, it stands on its own and
it cuts through everything. That's why there's ten Emmy nominations.
It doesn't come because we're just aiming for it's because
we're trying to exist and tell stories that rise above football,
rise above the sports, and impact everyone on a universal
(31:04):
and personal level.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
NFL three sixty Black History Month Special Director and producer
Osahan Tongo thank you for your time today. Thank you
and the host, of course, Jason mccordy. Jason, thank you
so much for making time to join us today. I
am so proud to be colleagues to say that I
am your colleague Osahan and your colleague Jason McCarty when
we see work like this. Thank you so much for it. Jason,
(31:26):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
I appreciate you having us listener.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Please do yourselves and your families a favor. Watch this
record this NFL three sixty Black History Month Special Tuesday Night,
that's Tomorrow night on NFL Network, eight pm Eastern. These
are stories you need to hear. They will elevate both
your understanding of our world and your connection to it.
It is not lost on me that both of the
(31:50):
stories you will see are connected by flight spirits never
died that ascended to the sky, spirits of a slave
rebellion more than two hundred and twenty years old, living
legacies of brilliant black men in America who were denied
the chance to fly. But when that opportunity was fought
for and given, however reluctantly, they soared. Of course, watch it.
(32:15):
I want to thank today's special guests Jason mccordy and
Osahan Tongo, and I want to invite the listener to
join us tomorrow when we will get back to some
football talk about Super Bowl fifty eight. We are only
days from Super Bowl fifty eight. We're going to get
a little granular. We're going to look at the matchups
that may just decide this dramatic contest between the Chiefs
and the Niners. Man on man matchups, coach on coach matchups,
(32:37):
unit on unit matchups, and yes, team on team matchups.
Who will star, who will stumble? Well, we won't know
till Sunday, but we have an idea and we're going
to share some of those ideas with you tomorrow. Till then,
chow fanow. NFL Total Access is a production of the
NFL in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
(33:01):
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
your podcasts.
NFL Total Access is a production of the NFL in
partnership with iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
It's Monday, February fifth, and you're listening it to an
NFL Total Access the podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Those are the voices of today's special guest. Voice number one,
a thirteen year NFL veteran drafted by the Titans. He's
also the pride of the Browns, the Dolphins, and the Patriots,
with whom he won his Super Bowl ring. You can
catch his soft spoken but hard truths every morning on
NFL Network because this man is the co host of
Good Morning Football. This man is Jason mccordy.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Welcome to the pod, sir, oh, and you appreciate you
having me Matt.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Voice number two is a director and a documentarian, a
writer and producer who dabbles brilliantly in the world of
virtual reality, but gives no quarter in the world of
actual reality. He's an Emmy winner, a former college football player.
Illinois by birth, Nigeria by blood. Voice number two, who
belongs to Osahan Tongo, Welcome to you, sir.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
Thanks Andrew. This is a great You know, that was
a great I really.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Appreciate Jason doesn't give that to you when you walk
in a room that all no, damn right, he doesn't.
I'm your host, NFL Networks Senior writer Andrew Lavy, and
I am honored to welcome Jason and Osahan to the
show today because these podcast debutants are here to promote
the NFL three sixty Black History Month special, which will
air listener tomorrow night. That's Tuesday night on NFL Network,
(01:28):
eight pm Eastern. Some of you, I hope, saw last
year's NFL three sixty Black History Month special on the
Indelible Legacy of Jimmy Ray. You've heard Jimmy Ray's name
mentioned on this pod before because of Michael Robinson talked
about his old coach and friend Jimmy Ray, reminding him
why do you work for a super Bowl so that
you can put your name in indelible ink? Well, these
(01:48):
guys did a special about Jimmy Ray, and that show
one an Emmy Osahan directed, Jason hosted. So clearly this
is a combo that works, but not just for honors,
for unforget edible material, characters in our world that we
have to meet, stories in our world that we have
to hear. This year, gentlemen, is no exception. I want
to start with a story that is the primary focus
(02:10):
of tomorrow Night's NFL three sixty. It's about history and impact.
It's about legacy and about change. It's about pride and permanence.
It's about the Tuskegee Airmen. Now, listener, if you're like me,
you will sit up and swear this is a story
you know. But I am humbled to report that what
I thought I knew is merely an introduction to the
depth and breadth of what I needed to know. Jason,
(02:33):
I want to start with you because I understand you
had encouraged your eight year old son to read up
on the Tuskegee Airmen not long before you got the
call about this show. Now, that kind of coincidence. In
my family we call a God moment. Why Tuskegee for
your son?
Speaker 3 (02:49):
The summer reading? And you know, if you have kids
that are older and they get to that phase.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Where the summerheads and all they want to do as
go outside and play or get on the screen and
get on their iPads. I tried to encourage my three
kids this past summer where we went to our local
library and they loved the who Is books where you
could go on and don't know different sports heroes for him.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Tom Brady is his guy.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
But he picked out a book on Lebron James, so
he got to pick out a book.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
We both read the book and then we'd have a conversation.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
So as I'm going through different books, I'm trying to
educate them on different things.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
And for whatever reason.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Tuskegee Airman jumped out to me that given day, so
took it home.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
He read it.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
We had a conversation about it, and it was so
cool because he's eight years old and to see things
through his lens and how he listens to it and
comprehends it and where he goes from it to questions
and all of that.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
It was a great conversation.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
And fast forward months later getting a call to help
obviously Osahan do them all the work with an amazing
story and helping just bring it to light and using
that platform was just such a coincidence that I couldn't
say no to that.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
O Sahan, you made what was an inspired decision to
make Major Tim Jefferson Junior the ostensible sort of leaders
storyteller of this piece. Now some of us remember him
Listener as the star quarterback for the Air Force Academy.
You invite us to meet the man who, after his
time on the gridiron Osahan, became a bomber pilot. And
(04:12):
in your incredible piece here Major Jefferson goes on a
journey across America to learn about the legendary Tuskegee Airman.
This is a hard question to answer. What did he learn?
Speaker 4 (04:23):
What did he learn?
Speaker 5 (04:24):
I mean, it was the breath of knowledge, right, So
we started off the dock by him actually touching round
on Mountain Field where everything happened, where the program, the
experiment what they called it, actually started right, so he
learned about the reason why it was important for us
to even have the quote unquote experiment because the Army
(04:44):
War College in nineteen twenty five wrote a memo saying
that black pilots are black fighters in war were not
smart enough to fight, They didn't have the courage. It
was just a damning letter about them. But I mean
he went from there to Gigee. We went during homecoming.
We saw the culture of the university, Booker T. Washington
(05:05):
and everything that happened there. And then we even met
two one hundred year old tuske Gearman. Right, we got
to actually touch these legends and talk to them and
really really sit down and have a moment with these heroes.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
Really, I mean, one of them.
Speaker 5 (05:20):
He wore John Glenn's spacesuit into the atmosphere. So he
was basically the test dummy for John glenn spacesuit, right,
Like the flyest Ever is a title that kind of
came when you're doing stuff like this, right, So, I mean,
he did all of these different things, and I can
go on for days, but I mean it was just
an amazing moment, and I learned in the process as well.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
I'm curious to know in your experience with those two centurions,
those two hundred year old Tuskegee Airmen. First of all,
what an incredible thing to be able just to be
in their presence, to be with somebody who has touched
a part of our historical record as Americans that we
can only think about, dream about and read about. You
(06:01):
were there with somebody who was there, I should think, Well,
I want to know are they aware? Do they know?
Do they carry with them the understanding and the knowledge
of just how important to our world, to our country
they were? Do they know it?
Speaker 5 (06:15):
I think at the time they knew they were doing something,
and they did something for black people in America more
than anything, right, Like they help win the war. I
mean they're exporting bombers at the alarming rate where they're
not losing bombers at all. Right, compared to other people
who wanted to be hot shots and get killed, they
were the most disciplined crew because they had to be.
(06:37):
They were stuck together for a year before they even
got to go out. So by the time they got
combat action, they were a well oiled machine and they
were really disciplined. But when they came back, there was
no ticker tape parade, there was no Hey, they couldn't
vote when they came back. So you risked your life
for your country. You saw your brother and die. You
fought as hard as you're one of the smartest people
(06:59):
in the world far as like you can. You went
to college and now you're you're flying airplanes, and then
you come back, you're an officer.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
People are not saluting you. We are not doing that.
Speaker 5 (07:07):
So some of these Tuskey gear men, they came home
and just had whatever jobs like they didn't They weren't
really embraced. But then to this day, when I sat
with these guys. They knew, Hey, what we did was important.
And Harvey, he has the pride, he has the personality,
he knows. He's like, yeah, I was the best. I
(07:27):
won the first top gun meet. I'm telling you I'm
the best.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
Just give me a shot. But they all were really
humble at the end of the day.
Speaker 5 (07:36):
They were really humble, and they you know, all that
stuff is in the past and they live every day,
and they just kept on living and they looked it up.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
And now here we are.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Listener, you heard Osahan describe what he called and what
history calls that tuskegeek experiment. Just think about that word experiment.
How insulting a word that is, for what it means,
for what it meant to choose that word, that this
was an experiment. Well, we'll see, we'll see. There was
resistance to training black pilots, resistance that was born out
(08:08):
of fear and prejudice and pure simple racism, racism that
was formalized codified in the memo issued by the Army
War College that Osahan told us about. And that resistance,
like the countless examples of resistance to inclusion black men
and women have experienced and continue to experience in our
world was met with courage, beaten back with defiance, and erased,
(08:32):
at least in that space, with excellence.
Speaker 6 (08:36):
The Tsking experiment.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Was the term that was derived.
Speaker 7 (08:43):
From the theory that the black man was infuria and
would not stand up in war.
Speaker 8 (08:51):
Section five The combat characteristics of the Negro bullet to
An opinion held in common by practically all officers is
that the negro is a rank coward in the dark.
He cannot control himself in the fear of danger to
the extent the white man can. He has not the
initiative and resourcefulness of the white man. He is mentally
(09:16):
inferior to the white man.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
The experiment sixty three pages of garbage.
Speaker 7 (09:26):
We couldn't do anything, according to them.
Speaker 5 (09:29):
We couldn't fly aircraft, we couldn't operate heavy machinery.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
We're inferior to the white man.
Speaker 9 (09:35):
When I see a study like this, it helps me
to understand what we have been up against since slavery,
since before slavery.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Jason mccordy. Legacies like that of the Tuskegee Airman. Where
does your mind in spirit go? Is it pride? Is
it pain? I imagine it can never just be one thing.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Yeah, I think pride would be the one.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
But you try to put yourselves yourself and their shoes
and think about what it had to be like for
them to go through that entire experience. And obviously you
look at the experiment and how disrespectful and how much
they put them down, but the thought of carrying a
legacy that goes so far beyond not only you and
(10:20):
your family, but what they had to represent, and ol
Saha said it like they protected the bomber pilots because
they felt like they.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Had to because throughout their entire.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Lives to get to where they got, like they couldn't
make a mistake.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
You couldn't go.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Out there and try to become a pilot at that
time and have one slip up and be late for
something or get one wrong answer. They had to be
damn near perfect to be able to achieve those things.
Speaker 6 (10:44):
So you just think about how hard we choose and
dream and strive to get to the goals that we
come up with, and how many times we fall short
of it and we dust ourselves off and we get
back up and we try again to get to whatever
point we're in in our lives.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
So for them to think at that time, you wanted.
Speaker 6 (11:01):
To do something that was impossible for anybody that was
around you.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
But then you were able to conquer a succeed and
be better than a lot of people with so much
less resources and so many odds stacked againt you. I
think pride is a thing that stands out for most
just because you think about those men, what they had
to go through, how they still came out on top.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
You are listening to NFL Total Access to podcast. I'm
your host, NFL Network senior writer Andrew Lavy with me
today Jason mccordy and Osa Hontango, host and producer and
director of tomorrow night to NFL three sixty Black History
Month Special. The story we're talking about is the primary
focus of this special. This is a special ninety minute
(12:00):
episode of NFL three sixty, This Black History Month Special
tomorrow that's Tuesday night on NFL Network, eight pm Eastern.
Do it for yourself, do it for your families, watch
it live, record it. You can see it on NFL
Plus or on NFL dot com later. Just make sure
that you get this material in front of you, in
your eyes and in your ears, because it will find
(12:21):
its way into your heart. The story we're talking about
now is called fly is Dever and gentlemen, as we
sit here today six days from Super Bowl fifty eight,
one of the many ways in which your story has
the power to affect us, to make us think forever differently,
is about the Super Bowl pregame flyover O. Sahan. This
year's flyover will be conducted by the famous Thunderbirds pilots,
(12:44):
who are considered among the best pilots in the world.
And yet it's more than that, they are in fact
a living testament to the power of the Tuskegee legacy.
Please explain.
Speaker 5 (12:54):
Oh yeah, so, I mean, as you said, they're flying
over the Super Bowl this year, and they're the best
of the best, I mean crew and take do auditions
for months to get these best pilots from all over
the military, to really show the excellence and precision within
the military. But at the same time, this woman have
even come about if Benjamin O'Davis, who was the first
(13:17):
class of tuske Gearman, he was the squadron commander and
became a general in the military, and Benjamin O. Davis
Junior actually staffed the package for the Thunderbirds, came up with, Hey,
we need to do this to help recruit people to
become pilots in the military and inspire the country, especially
with the you know, crisis of confidence and all these
(13:39):
different things that we talk about in our nation. We
need something to pull us together. And when you go
to a game and you see the flyover and you
feel it right after the national anthem, you're like America,
you know, like you're screaming it from the bowels. You
know that you love this game and this is the
most patriotic and unifying moment in sports. And to think
(13:59):
that this year in Super Bowl fifty eight in Las Vegas,
the same place that you know, James Harvey won the
first top gun meet, We're gonna have Thunderbirds fly over
and carry that flag, and fly the flag of the
Tuski year men, and write that history through the skies
over one of the greatest monuments to America. Is just
(14:22):
a it's a really humbling experience. It's really amazing to
think about the testimony that they're doing just by even existing.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Typically, listener, if you're familiar with the Thunderbirds, we were
used to a six plane formation. I think that will
likely be the case. On Sunday two of those six
pilots on Sunday Black Pilots important to point out Jason
as a player in a Super Bowl, the flyover is
more than punctuation and pageantry. It's a moment of power
(14:50):
in which your career, in your case, your career flashed
in front of your eyes. Take us to that moment,
tell us that story.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Yeah. For me and my career ended up playing thirteen
years in the NFL. The year I got a chance
to playing the Super Bowl was year ten. In the
first nine years of my career consisted of zero playoff games,
two winning seasons, a season that incorporated zero wins.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
So it was a lot of adversity to get to
that point to be in.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
A Super Bowl, got to do it alongside my twin
brother as well. And when I think about the flyover
and the noise and the sound of what it signifies
and everything Osahana said, it was completely right. And for
the players, when you're down there on that field and
your helmets off and we do the national anthem and
the flyover happens, at that moment, you know everything You're
(15:38):
thinking of your career, your family, all of those emotions
where you almost have tears rolling down your eyes. As
soon as that flyover happens, it's like, all right, it's
game time. Everything I've done, the work I put in,
the adversity I've gone through individually as a team, it's
all come to this moment to get to the mountain top.
So that flyover is just such a special moment for
(15:58):
everybody that's in the stadium and night given moment.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
For the people sitting in the crowd, they think about
what it took for them.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
To get to a super Bowl and positively watching their
favorite team and put the players down there on the field.
It's a moment that you won't get back because whether
you win or lose that game, those group of men
and women that signify a team or an organization, they'll
never be the same again.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Listener, when this year's flyover rattles Allegiance Stadium and lifts
our eyes and our spirits to the heavens, do not
let that moment pass without thinking about who is in
those seats and what it took for them to get there,
And do not let that moment be a disappointing reminder
that you forgot to record NFL three sixty Black History
(16:39):
Month Special Tomorrow night that's Tuesday night, eight pm Eastern
on NFL Network. Flys to Ever. That is the name
of the piece about the Tuskegee Airmen that Jason and
Osahan have just been talking about. After the break, Jason
and Osahan will tell us about an extraordinary piece of
history and poetry that you will see in that NFL
(17:00):
three sixty special. It's called The Chief Who Walked the Sea,
and it's coming up after the break on NFL Total Access,
the podcast you are listening to NFL Total Access the
(17:30):
podcast Andrew Label with Jason mccordy and Osahan Tongo, host
and director of tomorrow night's NFL three sixty Black History
Month special. Before you guys leave, I have to ask
you about The Chief who Walked the Sea. This is
a six minute journey into a forgotten moment in history
and how that moment, that extraordinary event, both for what
(17:52):
it was and for where it was birthed an NFL
story we all think we know quite well the story
of Brown. Oh Sahan, please tell us about this haunting
and thrilling work, and it is an equal measure both
of those things, haunting and thrilling. The Chief who Walked
the Sea.
Speaker 4 (18:11):
Thank you.
Speaker 5 (18:11):
So it really focuses on Jim Brown and his legacy. Right,
So Jim Brown passed last year, and when we were
thinking about ideas for NFL three sixty this season, you know,
I've known about this story called Ebo Landing, Right. It
was a slave revault that happened, and people talk about it.
(18:32):
Tony Morrison has an amazing story about it. And then
also it's turned into a fairy tale, so there's children's
books about it, and then there's kill Manger talks about
it when he talks about burying me in the ocean,
like my ancestors who didn't want to be in shackles
in slavery. Right, So it's an act of resistance in
resilience because they fought their captors and threw them over overboard.
(18:55):
But when they saw on the shore there was a
death in slavery waiting for him, they decided to do
a mass suicide. But what the story passed on as
because they couldn't find all the bodies in the ocean
is turned into they flew into the sky or walked
their way through the Middle passes back to Africa. So
(19:16):
that place was celebrated and Galla Geechee people are a
strong community in the low country of America, in the
Golden Isle from Jacksonville, North Carolina to Jacksonville, Florida. Right,
So those people Gulla Gala Island, you might have heard it.
They hold this story and you have people like Harriet
Tubman that was moving up the underground railroad and they
(19:38):
would sing these spirituals that would really bring in this
story about flying Africans and that's when they would know
to kind of leave and go up north. So it's
a story of resilience and resistance, very much parallel to
Jim Brown's life as he left football and went into
civil rights activism and went into Hollywood. And just use
(20:00):
this platform and a mare I can these stories fell
to me parallel. So we will use animation to do
some of the recreation and the storytelling through a Grio
queen quette, Gulligiche chief Thiss. She really helped set the
stage and then we kind of flow in between animation
and live action and really did a beautiful, enchanting journey
(20:23):
through the two stories to try and pay homage to
Jim Brown and his legacy as well as the Gulagichee
people and the people of Ebo.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Culture listener, if you're like me and my wife, we
celebrate stories of some of our favorite artists, artists like
Jay Z who are famous for going into the recording
studio and no pen no pencil, no paper, and just
kind of spitting what's at the tip of their tongue.
Well in a very real way. Queen Quette that you
just mentioned does that in this piece. You gave her
(20:54):
kind of a general thesis for what you wanted, and
she spit this like it was final track.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
And the rebellion broke out on board the slave ship,
and those that had been chained and marching in.
Speaker 6 (21:10):
Together, they said, all of a sudden, the spirits released,
the fighting continued.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
They never ceased.
Speaker 7 (21:19):
Everybody looked up into the sky and they sat on
that day.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
They saw our ancestors.
Speaker 7 (21:26):
Fly, the sun kissed midnight and back again. For days,
they prayed for heaven, sent.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
For knights. They rolled until their blood fate bestowed upon.
Speaker 7 (21:47):
Them, again and again and again. Chains glistened on their
soft and royal skin, crippling resolution, rippling the sea, which
sparked a play for the ocean within met with the
(22:11):
sin at the shawmine, and the tides began to turn.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
It's an extraordinary moment of creation that we see. In
addition to this celebration of an historical moment that takes
place there, it's an eighteen o three slave rebellion, which
is important for you to know about. It's important for
you to know what happened, what happened next, and where
it happened, and where it happened Saint Simon's Am I
(22:38):
getting it in Saint Simon's Island, And Jason mccordy remind
me who was born on Saint Simon's Island.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
The guy you just mentioned, mister Jim Brown.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
I'm curious as a player, you know, the more thoughtful
players that we meet, and we're so lucky in this
building at NFL Network to meet so many thoughtful players
and former players like you, Jason mccordy. I know that
the legacy of Jim Brown just purely football. Let's take
this story out of the room for just one moment,
just purely as a football player who honors history and
(23:12):
worked hard enough to be a part of history as
you did thirteen years in the league. It's an extraordinary accomplishment.
The name Jim Brown is not simply a name. I
can't imagine it ever would be simply a name.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
For you.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Tell me what Jim Brown means to you.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Jim Brown means so much.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
And I got a chance to play for the Browns,
as you mentioned, for one season, and Jim Brown had
his own office in a facility. You'd often see him
walking around. There are times where we were beyond the
road trips that he was there. There were times that
he addressed the team as well. I think what Jim
Brown meant and for me, I obviously never got a
chance to watch Jim Brown play live, but you could
go on his highlights and he looked so different being
(23:50):
out there playing the game of football. And you hear
people talk about how dominant he was throughout his career.
That could have lasted much longer if he chose to
contain and focus on football, And I think that's what
makes them so special to so many players, especially a
black player that played in our league, because you know,
when Jim Brown was playing, he was also breaking down
barriers within our country, and he was standing up for
(24:12):
things that weren't popular at the same time and willing
to risk his career. And he also moved on to
do movies and to do so many different things outside
of just the game of football. So I think when
you look at Jim Brown for a player that played
in the NFL, he's inspiration because he was one of
the best to ever do it when it came to
putting the helmet all. But then also he was willing
(24:32):
to fight for things that he believed in off over
the field, and I think that's inspiration for players, especially
at different times throughout our careers or throughout our country
where you're frowned upon and almost can get things taken
away from you for standing up for what you believe.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
In the story of this eighteen oh three rebellion, in
which these soon to be slaves, already captive, already in change,
they were already enslaved overcame their captors, but chose to
die instead of live in chains, instead of live as property.
The beautiful lines that you will hear, Their sorrow formed
(25:08):
a storm in the soul powered sky, and it cried,
and it melted all the darkness. Ancestors tears poured down
sweet nectar rain, and they sent their seed, and a
star was made. And that star is Jim Brown. And
we are talking about a story from eighteen oh three
and a legacy born out of that moment in eighteen
(25:30):
oh three, and talking about the blood soaked clay that
became the foundation, became the spot on which this star
Jim Brown was made. I'm brought to I'm moved by
the words that you so beautifully wrote, Osahan. I'm also
moved by the reality of resistance. I think the very
(25:50):
word sometimes people find triggering, and yet it is such
an important part of who Jim Brown was. It's such
an important part of what this story ishan that you
are bringing to us. Jason, I'll start with you, I'll
finish with o Sahan. The notion of resistance, resistance to templates,
resistance to paradigms, resistance to assumptions about what you are
(26:12):
and what you should be. How important a living legacy
is the resistance of this eighteen oh three rebellion.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Well, when you mentioned resistance and then you say the
words legacy, and I think of belief, And I think
when you find people that are willing to go through
resistance to get things corrected, to get things moving in
the right way, it usually starts with a sense of
belief and something I think that goes a long way.
And the stories that you're going to see, and that
piece tomorrow night is going to show you people that
(26:41):
were willing to resist the things that were going on
around them for what they knew was going to be
a better life, not only for themselves. It wasn't selflessly motivated,
but it was about different people that it was going
to impact at that time and for the future to come.
So I think whether you're talking about the evil people
and the Gulagichi people having a sense of pride for
what done in eighteen o three, or you're talking about
(27:02):
the Tuskegee Airmen who were willing to stand up for
what was right and being willing to go out there
and fight for their country, you're going to see people
that met resistance. And I think this story is so
special as much as it was then as it is now,
because there are things that go on where you have
somebody that might be afraid to step out on their
own and be willing to meet resistance because they don't
(27:22):
know if there's anyone that's going to support them. And
I think it's important to see, especially this month represent
Black History Month, because there's so many people out there
that don't know which way to go, and I think
seeing the story of inspiration from people that came before them,
they can see that history repeat themselves and they could
be somebody that's willing to step out on faith for
something they believe in to change the world around.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
A giant spawn from bloodstained clay, a newborn golden child,
James Nathaniel Brown. Like the chief who walked the sea
and brought the shadows to their knees, came a man
who bore the spark that made the flames that slayed
the dark. This is an original poem, part of which
was written by you O Sahan. It is absolutely beautiful
(28:05):
and powerful work. It reveals the greatness of Jim Brown
as a man, a man who embodied power and truth
and spoke truth to power at a time when it
was inconvenient for a lot of people for that to
be the case. This is a blending also of live
action and animation. This is an art piece, This is
a thought piece. This is an historical piece. This is
(28:26):
a piece you need to hear. Why is this story
important to tell and necessary to hear?
Speaker 6 (28:33):
Well?
Speaker 5 (28:33):
First, I want to make sure that everyone knows. Bianca
Leonora Kenyonez was a co writer on this piece and
she really brought poetry. She's a Grammy nominated singer songwriter
as well, so you know, she really brought the elegance
to the piece. I just want to give her her probles.
But I think, you know, I think this story was
(28:57):
something that had to exist because we have had to
birth it in.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
It was going.
Speaker 5 (29:02):
It had to come through me as the vessel to
birth it in. We had to collaborate with all these
people to bring it to life. Because we often hear
a lot of stories of subjugation or slavery or whatever,
but we never hear about people fighting back. We never
hear about resilience and resistance. We never hear about the
ingenuity it took to to overcome some of these things
(29:24):
for us to be where we are. We just get
a blink of the darkness that happen, and we don't
feel the process. We don't see and honor the people
who actually fil back that give you the courage.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
To fight back as well.
Speaker 5 (29:35):
I think in this moment in time, we're seeing a
lot of different things politically across the world that people
are fighting back and trying to have sovereignty over their
own lives. And I think what we are looking to
do is sing a song of faith, sing a song
of liberty, and make sure that it is voiced by
(29:57):
the people that really need to hear. And it's coming
from It's coming from the Heart's coming from the soul.
It's really peeking through because you know you're saying you're
talking about resilience, you're talking about resistance. It's this is
a piece of resistance within the framework of sports media.
Like nobody's doing animation, poetry, live action photography that looks
(30:20):
like this, that really takes I've seen one hundred Jim
Brown documentaries. I've never seen anything that touched on the
soil that he comes from with poetry and such grace.
So I think this is something that can be like
Mount Fuji, Right, it just exists right, So it doesn't matter,
it doesn't bend left or right. It exists to exist
(30:41):
because it's great and it should stand there. And much
like NFL three sixty in the landscape of sports media
as well, it exists, it stands on its own and
it cuts through everything. That's why there's ten Emmy nominations.
It doesn't come because we're just aiming for it's because
we're trying to exist and tell stories that rise above football,
rise above the sports, and impact everyone on a universal
(31:04):
and personal level.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
NFL three sixty Black History Month Special Director and producer
Osahan Tongo thank you for your time today. Thank you
and the host, of course, Jason mccordy. Jason, thank you
so much for making time to join us today. I
am so proud to be colleagues to say that I
am your colleague Osahan and your colleague Jason McCarty when
we see work like this. Thank you so much for it. Jason,
(31:26):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
I appreciate you having us listener.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Please do yourselves and your families a favor. Watch this
record this NFL three sixty Black History Month Special Tuesday Night,
that's Tomorrow night on NFL Network, eight pm Eastern. These
are stories you need to hear. They will elevate both
your understanding of our world and your connection to it.
It is not lost on me that both of the
(31:50):
stories you will see are connected by flight spirits never
died that ascended to the sky, spirits of a slave
rebellion more than two hundred and twenty years old, living
legacies of brilliant black men in America who were denied
the chance to fly. But when that opportunity was fought
for and given, however reluctantly, they soared. Of course, watch it.
(32:15):
I want to thank today's special guests Jason mccordy and
Osahan Tongo, and I want to invite the listener to
join us tomorrow when we will get back to some
football talk about Super Bowl fifty eight. We are only
days from Super Bowl fifty eight. We're going to get
a little granular. We're going to look at the matchups
that may just decide this dramatic contest between the Chiefs
and the Niners. Man on man matchups, coach on coach matchups,
(32:37):
unit on unit matchups, and yes, team on team matchups.
Who will star, who will stumble? Well, we won't know
till Sunday, but we have an idea and we're going
to share some of those ideas with you tomorrow. Till then,
chow fanow. NFL Total Access is a production of the
NFL in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
(33:01):
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
your podcasts.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
The Nikki Glaser Podcast
Every week comedian and infamous roaster Nikki Glaser provides a fun, fast-paced, and brutally honest look into current pop-culture and her own personal life.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.