March 27, 2024 • 47 mins
- Sunday Night Football’s Melissa Stark headlines our Women in Football Special
- Stark & NFL 360 Producer Kate Espejo give us a sneak peek at the Women in Football Special … airing Saturday Noon ET on FOX
- Stark reveals the troubling PAST … the wonderful NOW … & the limitless FUTURE of Women in Football
- From days when she felt the need to hide her femininity … to this extraordinary moment when women are NFL coaches, referees, scouts & candidates to be General Managers
- Stark tells the story of how John Madden’s mentorship changed the trajectory of her career
- We see how Drew Brees is helping young women & girls realize their dreams of PLAYING football
- Plus … the story of tackle football pioneer Toni Harris …
- … & the real-time ascent of Bears Scout (& future GM?) Ashton Washington
- It’s a whole new world for women in Football … but you can not fully appreciate what is happening NOW until you hear the stories of how we GOT TO THIS MOMENT IN TIME!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
NFL Total Access is a production of the NFL and
partnership with iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
It's Wednesday, March twenty seventh, and you are listening to
NFL Total Access, the podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
That is the voice of today's special guest. She is
a witness to some of the world's biggest events. Conveniently
for us, she's nice enough to report back from those
events and share with us what it looks like and
sounds like, and most magically of all, what it feels
like at oh, I don't know, an opening ceremony of
the Olympics, a World Series, or NBA Finals Game seven.
(00:41):
She's taken us to Times Square on New Year's Eve.
That was very nice of you, to red carpet events
in Kentucky, Derby's listener. In this woman's world, you're not
near the Major League Baseball diamond, you're not next to
the NBA hardcourt, You're on it. And she's been inviting
us onto NFL fields for over twenty years now. On
Monday night, Super Bowl nights, and of course every Sunday night.
(01:03):
She pulls us into the immediacy of NFL moments, including,
of course, those Can't Catch your Breath game just ended
Raw emotion moments from guys like Tom Brady and Aaron
Rodgers and Patrick Mahomes. In her sixth season hosting the
Emmy Award winning series NFL three sixty. She is someone
who I really hope knows what a good deed her
(01:24):
work can be because it connects us. It connects all
of us in ways that only sport can. Please put
your hands together and a warm welcome for the podcast
debutante Melissa Stark. Welcome, dude.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Wait, I want to take you everywhere with me? Can
you introduce me every time I walk into a room.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Oh dude, I'll be your hype man whenever, wherever. Stark,
you don't do it halfway, hil You're listen. Your resume
is incredible. It reads to me like the story of
a lavishly rich sports fanatic who's just ripping through a
bucket list of events to attend. Have you ever have
you recovered an America's Cup? Because you kind of give
sailing vibes. I think that's the last thing that and
(02:05):
like wartime correspondent, those are the only two things missing
on your resume. You've done everything else.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
That is what I originally You know, what if you
go back to one of the original articles written about
me in Vogue, it said I wanted to be Christiana.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I'm on poor and I alwa to be covering.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Yes, but thank goodness for kids later, that just would
not have worked at all.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
But you know what one thing? Did you put golf
in there?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Because I did cover the US Open and Tiger Woods,
and I don't know if that was in there.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Oh so, listener, let the record show that that long
list of plautus wasn't quite enough for Melissa. Okay, you
can relive, Melissa. You can relive one event, one of
those spectacles that I just rattled off. Forgive me for
missing the PGA. You can go back, but only to one.
Can you possibly choose?
Speaker 2 (02:49):
No, I can't because they're also they're all so incredible
in their own right, right. I mean, when you when
you're dealing with the Tiger Woods, or then you're at
the Olympics and you're covering swimming and Michael Phelps where
you mentioned Tom Brady and those guys, I mean.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
You just can't know, You cannot choose, There's no way
to choose.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
They're all incredible and I feel so blessed that this is.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
My career well, I'm so blessed that you could join
us today. I really am so honored that you are here.
I am your host, NFL Network Senior writer Andrew Lavian.
On today's show, Melissa is joined by a second guest, Coop.
Can I get some mystery guest music here?
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Please?
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Oh, very very nice.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Our second guest is a creator, a filmmaker, and a
thoroughly fascinating human being. She is Kate A Spejo. Kate,
I'm so glad you're here.
Speaker 5 (03:32):
Thanks for having me. That's my very first podcast, so
I'm excited thro've done it with you.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Full disclosure, Kate has not slept. She has not slept.
She just flew in from the owner's meeting and where Orlando.
Sorry on two levels for that. And Melissa is coming
to us from New Jersey sort of a bloodless room
in New Jersey. Listener, you can't see it, so no judgment.
Kate is joining us right here in studio, super glamorous.
Speaker 6 (03:57):
Right.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
I told you it's pretty impressive Pod Save the World
Pod We Trust. Okay to the business at hand. Melissa
and Kate are here today on behalf of something Listener
that you need to see and I don't throw that around.
You know this, but you do you need to see
with these two and their NFL three sixty teammates have
created it's their annual Women in Football Special airing on
Fox noon Eastern that's nine am on the West Coast.
(04:20):
Set a record for this Saturday. Melissa, as host of
NFL three sixty, this is your sixth Women in Football Special,
and in that time you have brought to us so
many stories of extraordinary people, women all owners and legends
and real time sealing shatterers. Stories of NFL coaches mail
(04:41):
your friend Laurie Locust comes to mind, Stories of referees
like Sarah Thomas, and real life heroes like Kathy Lanier,
the chief Listener. Kathy Lanier is a name you need
to know. She is in charge of NFL security. That's
every stadium, every Super Bowl. We're talking top secret level
risk assessment, Navy Seal level I on the ready kind
(05:01):
of stuff. Right when we walk into stadiums and settle
in for three hours of high level entertainment, we do
so knowing that Kathy Lanier has our back. And for you, Melissa,
I know these stories get personal because yes, these are
voices of leadership and authority, but for you, they are
also treasured colleagues and friends.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
They are, and.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
I've developed a special and unique relationship. Like you said,
we've been doing this for six years. We started with
this incredible roundtable of women, and Andrea Kramer was on
it and a bunch of the women that you just mentioned.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Tony Harris, Antoinette Harris, and she was the.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
First female ever she made history to get a college
scholarship as a non kicker.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
And we've stayed in touch and now you fast forward
and I'm sure many people remember the face of the
NFL's Super Bowl commercial last year, Diana Flores.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
We had her on.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
I mean, she represents flag, she's an ambassador for the NFL.
She's like football's Mexican. She won the gold medal and
she's incredible. And you mentioned lo Locust. You know, it's
fun Low went from the Buccaneers now she's with the Titans,
and and just to hear their stories and to hear
what they overcame, and to hear that they never took no.
(06:17):
It was a common theme, you know, the hard work,
never taking no for an answer. There's not one path.
I often have people come to me and say you know,
how do I be you? Or how do how do
I break in? Or there's not one way to do it,
you know, if you look at the way I did
it twenty five plus years ago, close to thirty years ago,
(06:39):
there wasn't there, weren't iPhones, there weren't you know. I
had to befriend a cameraman. I did fake stand ups
in front of the White House. I did, you know,
all these crazy things to try to break into the business.
And there's not one way to do it.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
But I would say that.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
The themes are determination, not taking. Someone once told me,
if you don't ask, the answers always know, So just
keep asking, keep pushing, and that hard work and their
stories are incredible. And yes, like you said, you know,
I'll see Sarah Thomas during your games, come over to
(07:11):
me on the sidelines before the game or low Locust,
And it's just fun to have the sorority of women,
you know, and to see it evolve the way women
in football has evolved over the last twenty five years.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
And I know we'll get to that.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Mel If we are judged by the company we keep,
you really are kind of stacking the deck there. It's
showing off and it's not fair.
Speaker 7 (07:30):
Kate.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Coming up, you're going to make the introductions to a
woman who is on a path to become an NFL
GM and if she does, maybe when she does, she
very likely won't be the NFL's only female GM. Her
name is Ashton Washington, who at this very moment sits
with the Caleb Williams decision. That's a story you have
to hear. But first, underneath the stories of these game
(07:52):
changing women that Mel just rattled off, the names of
only a few of them, there runs a current that
was strong six years ago and it is irresistible. Now
watch football cheerlead. Listen to you guys drown on about it. Yeah, okay,
here's an idea. Give me the damn ball. Women and
girls want to play football and they are playing it
(08:13):
and they're crushing it.
Speaker 7 (08:14):
Kate.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
One of the stories in your special is called back
in the Game. Drew Brees has started a girls flag
football league, one of so many popping up everywhere wherever
this reaches you, listener, you are within driving distance of
a flag football league. And I love this segment because
it's such a measure of the moment. Kate Aesbeha. We
meet today at a moment in which girls are dreaming
(08:35):
about playing for their country while playing in their local
leagues or for their high school teams. You did play
as a kid as much as you could, but you
had dreams of playing more. Is what we are seeing
out there now kind of what you had in mind.
Speaker 5 (08:51):
I mean, I never would have imagined that it would
become like this, never mind thinking my wildest dreams. You know,
because when I was growing up, I played during recess
with the boys. I played with my male cousins out
in the backyard, and football is always my favorite sport
to play, but of course there was no place for
me to play. The only time when there actually was
(09:13):
was when I was in middle school. They actually held
a powder puff tournament for girls for you know, we
had practice for three weeks and then we had one
tournament that we went to, and it was probably you know,
I played various sports, but that was my absolute favorite
tournament or even just day playing sports I think I
(09:34):
ever had, because I loved it so much. And I
was really disappointed when our high school didn't have the
annual powderpuff game because they were, you know, they were
saying that we would fight the rival school but that
I mean they.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Were worried about fights breaking out, about fisticuffs.
Speaker 5 (09:51):
Yeah, so they were like, oh tea, yeah, well, I
mean we I'm a pretty tough person, but I'm not
gonna co but uh but yeah, so I you know,
when I first started covering a lot of these different stories,
like with Sam Gordon who was trying to get girls
tackle football sectioned in Utah and eventually lost. And then
(10:12):
you know last year with Leaving a Legacy, the other
three sixty show or three sixty feature that we did
during the women in Football episode, you know, with that one,
it was just amazing to me seeing these girls that
have been playing forever and were like, yeah, you know,
I'll play in high school and play in this high
school league and kind of set the groundwork for it
to be sanctioned in their part of California. And then
(10:35):
at the end, while we were filling with them, it
got sanctioned in the entire state of California, and it
blew my mind. And then with this latest piece back
in the game, getting to see all these it was
one hundred and forty little girls from like kindergarten to
tenth grade out there with Drew Brees in the pouring rain,
(10:56):
and none of them were complaining. They were having just
the time of their lives. And you know, as you'll
see in the piece, some of those girls talking to
them were saying things like, yeah, like I have the
option to now play in college. With this one little girl, Taylor,
who I think was about ten years old, she was
saying something like, I want to go to a high
(11:17):
school that has a really good girl's football program. If
you'd have told me that was something a girl would
have said back when I was in high school, I'd
have been like, what are you talking about? I mean,
And it's just I'm so happy with how far the
game has come and how it's going to expand, because
it's only getting bigger, Like even just in the short
time I've been covering it, it has grown exponentially, and it
(11:39):
makes me so happy. It's a little bit jealous, to
be honest.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Here is an excerpt of Back in the Game.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
Now.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
You will hear the voice of Drew Brees, for sure,
but listen for the real stars of this piece, the
voices of these little girls, these young kids, these football players.
Speaker 6 (11:54):
You know, I've got a fourth grade daughter and I
would love them nothing more to see her playing flag
football because I think that she's gonna be the next
Olympic athlete representing the US, but because I know what this.
Speaker 8 (12:07):
Sport has meant for me.
Speaker 6 (12:08):
I know what this sport means to so many.
Speaker 9 (12:10):
Young people playing against guys. The show up to the
game and they all kind of give you that look like, oh,
we're playing a girls team, like this is gonna be easy.
Then you beat them and it's like you aren't better
than us just because you're guys.
Speaker 5 (12:21):
So it really boost your confidence.
Speaker 8 (12:24):
It's showing that girls can do step two, neck fatures sets,
powerful and strongest toys.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
You are listening to NFL Total Access the podcast Andrew
Lady with NFL three sixty host Melissa Stark and NFL
three sixty producer Kate Espejo. The sixth annual Women in
Football Special heirs Saturday twelve noon Eastern on Fox. You
can also watch these segments on NFL dot com slash
NFL three sixty. Mel the best quote for me in
(13:01):
the flag football segment that we heard right before the break,
you aren't better than us just because your guys were
just as powerful. Just amazing truth and wisdom from a
twelve year old, but in your career that was an
idea that was met with resistance. You were tested over
and over again by men who were threatened enough to
(13:24):
make taking their test part of your gig. Do you
mind taking us back to moments that will make me
ashamed but will really ground us in the truth of
how far we've come, because there is a story or
seven that you can tell us about this.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Well, before I get to that, I just want to
say that the piece with Drew Brees is awesome and
his enthusiasm for these girls and he tells you that
the girls are easier to coach than the boys, and
just the smile on his face, and that came out
of I actually called Drew because I also am the
sideline for Sunday Night Football, and I called Drew about
something about asking him about some quarterback and he said, well, I'm.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
On my way to go coach, you know, to go
coach this league.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
And I said, oh my gosh, we want to do
you know, we want to do this story. This is
fabulous And it's not even one of his own daughters.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Am I I'm right, Kate, right with that, It's not even.
Speaker 5 (14:16):
Yeah, his daughter does not play. Yeah, yeah, you.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Have to see this. This Drew Brees is amazing. Okay,
so let me take you back to you know, I
hope women nowadays, or young girls they're getting into this
career don't experience, you know, some of the things.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
That I did, you know, with baseball. You know, they
would ask me.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
I'd walk in or I'd be out in a batting
practice and they'd ask if Peter Gammons, who was you know,
the baseball expert or guru at ESPN, had given me
all my questions. Or I was covering golf and Jack
Nicholas said that I might be pretty to look at,
but I was standing in his line and could I
please move? It was a made for Teague TV golf
event where you know, you're in front of the cameras,
(15:02):
and it was casual. It wasn't you know, it wasn't
the US Open or anything, you know, just things like that.
And I remember Andy Rooney and people probably don't, you know,
I'm not sure the age of the people listening to
this podcast, but he was on sixty minutes and he
would give his clothing thoughts, right, and he said a
woman should not be talking to us about football, and
(15:24):
you know, even my own husband, it's hilarious. I can't
even believe I'm sharing this. But he played football at
Princeton and his brother was the best man at our
wedding and he said something to the effect of my
brother when he first saw a woman talking about football,
fall what can a woman teach me about football? And
we have this very funny picture of our wedding where
my husband's putting his hands over his mouth like oops, thinking, well, my.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
How times have changed, you know.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
So it just it's when you say ashamed, make you ashamed,
you know, it's it's it just wasn't the norm.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
And now if.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Flag football was what it is right now, I have
twin seventeen year old daughters. If it they would have
loved it. They missed that boat by you know, Kate,
I don't know five years.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
You know, however, in the.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Years it is, they just missed it, right, So they
do track in soccer instead.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
But how fun for these for this up.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
And coming generation of young girls. So I'm excited about
where we are and how far we've come, especially given
the perspective, yes that I do have, being one of
the first females to be in this whole man's world.
I remember I would go, I would wear my glasses,
I would wear no makeup. I just wanted to be
one of the guys. I just wanted to blend in.
(16:38):
So that was part of it.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
That was part of the deal for you. Was an
intentional kind of hiding of your femininity in order to
what in order to fit in? What was the angle?
Speaker 3 (16:47):
I mean, yes, just.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
To not stand out as a woman, not be flirted with,
not be hit on, you know, that type of thing.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
I think it was hard.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
In that age era of you know, sources are everything,
our connections are everything. How many cell phones numbers I
have in my phone is everything of who I if
I can call this person and this person, you know,
it's that's critical.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
And to get up next to a guy and say, well,
can I have your cell phone?
Speaker 2 (17:19):
It's just when you're a twenty five year old, you know,
I single female is is difficult. It might you know what,
it might still be very difficult. Now I have I
have the perspective now of you know, kind of being
their mother's age, being married, having four kids. So I
don't face that I have and I have the luxury
(17:41):
of that. I would say now, so that might still exist,
because yeah, I mean, let's face it, it probably does.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Kate and Melissa, there is a segment in your Women
in Football Special again that airs Saturday on Fox twelve
noon Eastern. Set a reminder. It's called Unapologetic. It's the
story of Aette Harris, who mel you referenced earlier on
this show. Tony Harris, the first woman to earn a
collegiate scholarship as a non kicker. She's a defensive back.
Her story is stunning because what it took to prove
(18:11):
herself on the football field was child's play compared to
what she faced in the way of challenges personal and
familial off of it. But she was the only girl
playing varsity football, and the kind of resistance that she
got for that isn't hard to guess. Listener, this is
a man's sport. You can hear that one echoing through
so many halls even to this day. Some dismissed it
(18:32):
as a publicity stunt. No way, that's for real, they said.
And then this is my favorite, the doubt disguised as concern.
Countless questions along the lines of are you sure about this?
And yeah, listener, Tony Harris was sure about this even
after her cancer treatments.
Speaker 7 (18:55):
I went to the doctor's office because my cycle was
really irregular. That was just one of the roughest moments
in my life. I went from one seventy four to
ninety pounds. The back of my hair had fell out,
and at that moment, I didn't know what to do.
I wanted to give up. Now with some of the
(19:16):
hardest training I had in my life, anytime I hit
something on my.
Speaker 10 (19:20):
Body with bruise and then she started working out more,
starting to physically grow.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
She started playing muscle back on our prime.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
She struggled, but she got through it.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
That is an excerpt from Unapologetic, The Tony Harris Story,
part of the NFL three sixty Women in Football special. Melissa,
you mentioned your twin girls, who, like all of our children,
live in a see me, be me world. It helps
to see someone who looks like you doing the thing
that you want to do in order to believe the
dream of doing it too. Seeing Tony Harris play give
(19:54):
shape to a dream. It's totally possible. She proves that
it is. We'll see it from her and women like
Callie Brownson, who played for years and now coaches for
the Browns. Mel your daughters get to see mom do
some pretty cool stuff. That's a dream that you make
possible for so many women. Women like the lead producer
of the Tony Harrispiece, Emmy Award winner, India right, who's
(20:14):
sitting in this studio right now. You can't see her,
but she's here. Who saw you on television when she
was growing up? And she pointed at the television and
she said, and I quoted you, India. I want to
do that someday, Melissa Stark. My question for you, who
was your Melissa Stark?
Speaker 2 (20:33):
That's so interesting. I didn't know you were going there.
There wasn't that's just it. There wasn't one. There wasn't one,
you know, there was a I love interviewing and getting information,
and so I guess I would say it was, you know,
a Diane.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Sawyer or a Barbara Walters. And I also like news.
I like the Newsy Aspect.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Right, that explained, that explained the the Christian a connection. Right, yes, thank.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
God that mel Thank goodness, right, right. I mean my
life would be completely different. But you know, going back
to my girls, and it's funny that you say that,
and when India said that to me in one of
our discussions, and that was a couple of years ago
on one of our Women in Football episodes. You know,
it's incredible that she saw it that way.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
But when you're doing it and you're living it, you don't.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
You just think I'm doing what I've always wanted to do,
and I'm just doing it.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
You're not. I'm not necessarily thinking about that. But but
then on the flip.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Side, I am so happy anybody I went to the
University of Virginia, anybody who calls me from the University
of Virginia, or any girl you know, any family friend
or whatever that wants to get in, I am so
happy to talk to them and to encourage them and
also to explain, you know, how hard it is. And
I mentioned that I went back and I was a
guest speaker at one of the broadcasting classes at UVA
(21:53):
recently and someone had a fantastic question and they said,
what would you tell yourself, like your twenty five year
old self now looking back? And I just thought, you
know what, I would tell myself that I belonged because
I didn't feel that at that time. I definitely had
(22:14):
that doubt again not wearing makeup, wearing glasses doing this?
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Do I belong? I'm in a man's world? Can I
make it? What do they think of me? Am I
smart enough? Am I do I know football enough?
Speaker 6 (22:26):
You know?
Speaker 2 (22:26):
I mean you're constantly questioning yourself because you look around
and really you at that time, you really are the
only female there. Now it's completely different and it's evolved,
and you see so many more and you know it's
a different story. But and I hope that, and I
(22:47):
really hope that for women now, and as we talk
about on this NFL three sixty special, that we have
whenever anybody does like a Tony Harris excels at what
she's doing or low locus as a coach, whenever it
opens the doors for these women, for this next generation
(23:07):
of women. So I champion anyone who does a fantastic
job in broadcasting and anyone. You know, it's I'm not
looking at it as it's I do look at it
as like this sword, this women that we need to
champion and we need to uplift, you know, not necessarily
as a threat. You know that it's fabulous that more
(23:28):
and more women are getting into it.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
After the break Kate will introduce us to the first
female scout in Chicago Bears history, who is being talked
about as a future NFL GM NFL Total Access the
podcast coming right back. You are listening to the NFL
(24:00):
Total Access to podcast Andrew Lady with Melissa Stark and
Kate Espejo, who are here on behalf of the NFL
three sixty Women in Football special that's airing on Fox
Saturday noon Eastern. I'm gonna keep saying it until you
set your record. You can also check it out on
NFL dot com slash NFL three sixty Now Kate. The
special features a story called Jobs Not Finished that the
(24:23):
mantra of an extraordinary person named Ashton Washington, the first
female scout in the history of the Chicago Bears franchise. Kate,
NFL three sixty producer, this is your passion project. You
found it, you pitched it, you fought for it, and
you made it happen. What made Ashton's a story that
you had to tell?
Speaker 5 (24:44):
There are so many different aspects of her story that
I really truly loved. It was one of the moments
where I just kind of despise what I was staying
on TV, and I won't say who it was, but
it was you could find it easily as a player.
After a woman asked him a question about a route
and he said, Oh, I think this is hilarious, a
female asking me a quest about routes. And to me,
you know, it's like, I can kind of talk about routes.
(25:04):
I know Melissa can talk about routes. There are so
many women in this building that can talk about routes.
And with Ashton hearing that she was a scout, to me,
it's like, well, not only does this woman probably know about,
you know, routes and plays and coverage and everything, but
she can also determine what makes a great player. And
to me, that's just super interesting because when you imagine scout,
(25:26):
you'll tend to think about guys that have played before,
and Ashton hadn't. But she through watching her brother play
and her father coach, she developed the love for the
game and could kind of help her brother get better
by talking with her dad and watching him play. And
(25:48):
that's where she fell in love with football. And so
she if she fell in love with football and decided that,
you know, rather than become an attorney, she wanted to
get into fotball as a career, and so she fought
so so hard, took all these internships, took jobs that
paid her nothing, and took other jobs at places like
(26:12):
a taco truck and a grocery store to help fund
her traveling to different parts of the country to kind
of become an expert in high school recruits and everything.
And that to me was a testament to her passion
and how much she wanted it. And then once she
finally kind of got her big break where she got
(26:32):
hired on by coach Lovey Smith, she then decides, with
her very first paycheck that she's ever gotten, that she's
going to start a scholarship, the Ashton Washington Women of
Color Scholarship, in order to help assist young women of
color that are going to HBCUs in Mississippi, because that
was what her grandmother did. So to me, it was
(26:53):
just like, here's someone that quite literally blazed their own
trail to get into football and then doesn't shut the
door behind her and sees, you know, this was difficult
for me, so I'm going to make it easier for others.
And in working with her, I mean, she's an incredible
human and I truly loved working on it, and she's
(27:16):
someone that I would not be surprised if Ashton were
to become the very first female GM of an NFL team.
She's just got it.
Speaker 4 (27:25):
During the time my brother was playing flag football, my
dad was coaching, I would look around and I would
see girls cheerleading. I'm like, okay, so girls are supposed
to just cheerlead and cheerlead boys on as they play football.
And for me, I was never the cheerleading type. This
is not it, This is not what I want to do.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
I was hanging on her every word. This piece is incredible,
and I love that she took chances again, didn't take
no for an answer, and she didn't want.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
To accept the trip. She met some cheerleaders, you know,
the traditional roles. She didn't want to accept the traditional roles,
and she created this.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
I'm a big believer in creating your own opportunities. It
takes work, it takes guts, and she's got it.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
It's beautiful filmmaking, O, Kate, it really is, and a
wonderful piece of storytelling. I am so taken by the
strength of Ashton's power, or maybe it's the power of
her strength. It's undeniable, but it's delivered in such a
chill and joyful way. She is a lifelong student of
the game, and she is, as you discovered, commanding a
(28:39):
great deal of respect and attention in the Bears organization.
I get a sense from you that Ashton Washington is
a bit of a rock star.
Speaker 5 (28:48):
Oh that's putting it mildly. When I was walking around
just the building with her when we were filming, every
single person that building knew who she was. And it
wasn't just like, oh hey, hi, Ashton. It was like
she would stop and talk to them and and you know,
I have at length conversation with them, and they all
you could tell just wanted you know, I felt like
I was walking around with the cool kid. When she
(29:10):
sat with us here breakfast, I felt like we were
at the cool kid's table with her. Because she just
is one of those people that just by being herself
draws you to her. She's got she's just so magnetic,
and she commands a lot of respect just because she's
so I mean, she's so intentional with everything that she does,
and you can tell that she's a person that really
(29:30):
wants to uplift everyone around her. In the piece. We
kind of touch upon the fact that Ashton, you know,
she reads a lot of books and has this this
growth mindset, and again she tries to help others. And
so what she does is, whenever she reads a book
that she really likes or thinks that someone can take
something from, she'll buy another copy. She'll inscribe it and
(29:52):
give it to someone that she thinks could use it.
She's done that for Ryan Poles, the GM. He mentioned
a few books that she's given him. So, you know,
she's just someone that you can tell. She's just the
only way I can describe her is that she's just
super special.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
You employed chess and puzzle imagery throughout this film. Ashton
speaks of it, how intentional you just mentioned she is,
how strategic she is. Step one for her was knowing
by reading, gathering a wealth of information, challenging it, and
applying it.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
Out of nowhere.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
I get an email from University Illinois. It says, you
have a zoom call set with coach Lovey Smith.
Speaker 11 (30:30):
When you're good at your profession, where it gets around
we were looking for a person that could evaluate players
that would be good, you know, selling.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
Our university and he says a lot of people have
been telling me to get in contact with you. Why
is it?
Speaker 1 (30:51):
And she believes that if you want to be great,
you should study the greats that precede you. Very strategic approach.
She takes a four point plan she referenced as I
believe of reading, dreaming, working, strategizing, always getting better and
when faced with a challenge, in her case it was
getting fired four months into what she thought was going
to be her big break, she relies on the most
(31:13):
trusted strategies of all the basics, the foundational truths. Kate,
you fought for this story, as I mentioned before. Was
there a moment while making it when you knew this
is why I fought for.
Speaker 5 (31:25):
This story Ashton's interview, Because that was the moment where
when we had first started a lot of people, because
we had no idea going into it, we just thought, oh,
she's a scout, this is really cool. This is a
great story. You know, play a personnel coordinator. And we thought, okay,
well we'll just talk about how she faced all this
different adversity getting into the role that she has now.
(31:46):
And then when we dived a bit deeper, we realized,
oh no, this is just the beginning of where she
could end up. You know, her trajectory is just headed
straight up. And so you know, I interviewed Ryan and
George McCaskey and Kevin Warren, all these, I mean, the
guys that are running the Bears organization, and each and
(32:09):
every one of them said, Ashton could be a GM.
Speaker 10 (32:12):
She's just all about hard work, dedication, fairness. She can
do whatever she wants. She could be a general manager,
she could be a president. She could be a CEO
if he just transcends race and gender.
Speaker 5 (32:25):
The way that she was talking about things, the way
that she was kind of walking me through her story,
led me to believe that, like, yeah, this is someone
who a huge, major setback, like being let go. When
she was let go from the University of Illinois was
just a blip in her story. To me, it would
have been devastating.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
I probably would Oh, Jimmy, it would have been totally directed. Yeah,
I would have lost seek new pastures exactly.
Speaker 5 (32:47):
Not her, not her. No, for her, it was like
all right, she her dad says this, and it's actually
not in the piece, but in the interview he told me,
he said, I she called me and she said, can
I be sad for a day, and he said, you
got a day, and so she said, okay. She took
a day to be sad and then just immediately jump
back on the horse and just start sending emails and
(33:08):
reaching out to people and trying to find another way back,
and then ended up with the Chicago Bankers pretty shortly.
Speaker 4 (33:16):
After another fire was lit. Back at it again, let's
get it. Job's not finished.
Speaker 5 (33:23):
To me, that just goes to show how absolutely determined
she is to just leave her mark on the NFL.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
How determined she is, but also how knowledgeable she is,
because the fact is she got that call from the
Bears because she had already established in those four months
at Illinois and then all the years prior, a reputation
based on acumen, based on knowing the answer, based on
being able to read players as they stand now and
what their ceiling might be, projection versus production. All of that,
(33:52):
I'm amazed at Ashton Washington's confidence to let her authentic
self remain unmasked and seemingly unafraid. She doesn't rely on
bombast or arrogance. Listener. You can hear it in the clip.
She relies on what she has learned and what she trusts,
on what she feels, and then she pairs that with
a famed attention to detail. But Kate, as you mentioned before,
(34:13):
and I want to put a finer point on it,
Ashton Washington is also in a hurry to help others succeed.
You artfully reveal a character of real significance in this film,
the recipient of an Ashton Washington scholarship, which I find astonishing.
I find it such a true measure of her as
a human being that she is reaching back to help
others the moment she's in the door. This is defining
(34:35):
to her character.
Speaker 5 (34:37):
Oh yeah, I mean that was because I had thought
that she had started that Initially, I thought that she
had started that scholarship when she was at the Bears.
But no, she started it with her very first paycheck,
the very first time that she had received any money
from a job in football. She said, Okay, I'm going
to start this scholarship for young women of color in Mississippi.
(34:58):
This is a young woman who who doesn't have to
do this. There's no reason she should. I mean, I
think just she's a great example of representation just by
being herself. But she also wants to make sure that
others have an easier path than her. You know, she
kind of blazed the trail, but she's trying to make
sure that those that come behind her have it much
(35:18):
easier than her.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Ambition and altruism rarely share the same spirit. Ashton Washington's
extraordinary story titled Jobs Not Finished, directed and produced by
Kate Esbeho, is part of the NFL three sixty Women
in Football Special Saturday noon Eastern on Fox. Coming up
after the break, Melissa Stark time traveler. That's right because
her career spans past and present and future, and Melissa,
(35:42):
I want to know from where you stand what the
future holds. This special episode of NFL Total Access to
Podcast is coming right back. Thank you for listening to
NFL Total Access to Podcast. Andrew Lady here with a
now monthly reminder to all of you listening that NFL
three sixty is doing the most compelling and I would
argue the most important work around these parts. Today's guests
(36:04):
Melissa Stark and Kate Espejo, host and producer, respectively, of
the NFL three sixty Women in Football Special, airing Saturday
noon Eastern on Fox. It is a show informed by
and inspired by football, but listener, it's bigger than football.
In NFL three sixty. Sport is the prism and through
it shines the light of great story and great character
(36:24):
Melissa and Kate. The final segment of your show is
something of a fireside chat, a round table discussion between
Melissa and analytics expert Cynthia Freeland and the host of
NFL Total Access to the broadcast, Kimmy checks and mel
It's a great way to finish the show. It's so personal,
it's so raw, and you get from both Kimmy and
Cynthia fascinating details about their journeys in their life and
(36:48):
their journeys in their career in football. Kimmy rising through
the ranks of an NFL program aimed at identifying and
nurturing talent, and she is immensely talented, so much so
that being uniquely her her as she told you, was
not just her goal, but it was also her method
and her superpower. Cynthia, having turned a master's degree in
predictive analytics and an algorithm, she coded herself by the
(37:11):
way into a role as tracker of NFL trends and
reader of NFL t leaves a studious approach that she
herself calls the anti hot take take. Kate, you cultivated
the dreams of a kid from central California growing up
amongst the orange groves of Porterville, to be an artist,
to be a storyteller, to be a filmmaker, to be
your authentic self, who, like Ashton Washington, you didn't know
(37:35):
exactly what you wanted to do, but you knew that
you wanted to do something great.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Mel.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
You started as a production assistant in college athletics at
the University of Virginia in my home state, and now
you are one of the most recognizable people in all
of sport. And I hope that there are young women
listening or parents of young women that invite them to listen,
so they can be encouraged by the diversity of experience
in this room alone, by the countless angles of approach
(38:02):
taken by women in football.
Speaker 10 (38:05):
Mel.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
We were just talking the other day and you said
with joy, and you said it earlier on this podcast,
that there is no one way to do it. And
I think that's the glorious truth, right There is no
single lane to merge onto. There are countless ways in
to become a scout, a coach, an analyst, a reporter,
and yes a player too, and one day soon an
NFL GM. I think maybe you would agree that's the
(38:27):
ultimate test of how far we've come is that there
are so many different ways to get in, and there's.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
There's so many different ways to get in, and there's
so many more opportunities, and you don't have to be.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
Pin to one of them. You can.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
You can explore many different areas now and the doors
have been opened, the doors have been I guess knocked down.
I don't know if the women, you know, some of
the women don't want to look at themselves that way.
They don't. Locus always says, I'm not a pioneer, just
call me coast that title. I just she feels like
she's made it if she's sitting in a meeting and
(39:06):
they just say, hey, coach, you know.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
And that's the way I thought, like, I just want
to be one of the one of you know.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
It used to be like I'm one of the guys,
but now just you know, one of I don't even
know what the word war it is, but you just want.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
To I think maybe maybe it's being one of one
being your just being your true authentic self being yourself.
And the fact is that if if that door was
kicked down, then there are Melissa Stark bootmarks on that
door because you were part of the group that was
kicking that door down. But mel you heard Cynthias talk
about what she called opportunity cost, which to me at
(39:41):
first sounded like a business phrase, but then I realized
she meant that for women, there tend to be very
specific costs attached to each and every opportunity. You want
to break molds, you want to shatter ceilings, you want
to challenge Jurassic notions of gender roles, Well there's an
opportunity cost. You want to be a mom too, Well,
there's there's an opportunity cost.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
Mail.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
You have four children, you have a remarkable career and
an enviable platform. You seem to have it all. Here's
a tough question. How what's the trick?
Speaker 3 (40:12):
I know that's the question, right, How do you have
it all?
Speaker 2 (40:14):
I walked away, I left, and I was okay leaving.
I said, you know, if I having children and having
a family was very important to me, so I had
I was the sideline reporter for Monday Night Football when
I was twenty six years old and then I was
covering Olympics and I was pregnant with my first child
(40:35):
and went to the Today Show because ultimately, remember I
told you I absolutely loved news, I realized news is
very difficult for a mother because nothing's planned, everything is breaking.
So sports, Ultimately, anytime I was reading.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
The news on the Today Show, I would read the news.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
I would read the news and a sports story would
come on and I would absolutely light up.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
So sports is where I belong. I absolutely know it.
But yes, I left. I had four kids in under.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Four years, that includes twins, and so I left from
mom about two thousand and eight after the Beijing Olympics
till about twenty twelve, and I had to be okay
with that. I had to say, Okay, this is what
I've got to put my family first. So, like I said, everyone,
and you know what's so fun now? Is? I always
said then, gosh, I wish I had kids that could
(41:27):
have appreciated this, that could be on the fields with me,
that you know, And now they are and it's so
much fun. Our dog is named Brady. My daughter absolutely
adors Tom Brady. She got to meet him at Christmas
last year. It's just it's now they come along.
Speaker 3 (41:41):
And they're a part of it. And I didn't miss
all of that.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
But I had to have and this is really important,
I had to have champions along the way.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
I had to have people that believed in me. And
really a.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
Big one for me was John Madden. And I have
to say John Madden, you know, he wanted he just
for whatever reason. I was almost like a daughter, but
I was also a coworker. But I was someone who
he could train. You know. He brought me in, he
taught me how to watch film, He respected me. He
(42:12):
just he became such a dear friend and that really helped.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
And so anybody who's.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Listening, I would just say, you know, find that person,
Find someone who believes in you, or can mentor you,
or can take you under their wing, because you.
Speaker 3 (42:29):
More than ever then I think I needed it. You know,
maybe now not.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
As much because we have paid the way and we
have created a lot of these roles and it is
more accepted.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
But boy, I needed that then. That is the absolute truth, Kate.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
I think the real American dream isn't riches and fame,
as nice as that would be, but I reckon the
real American dream is more nuanced than that. I think
it's a luxury that comes from a sense of peace,
a sense of belonging. Mel you mentioned belonging a moment ago,
and I think that's nail on the head, knowing that
you're with the right people, knowing that you're where you
(43:05):
need to be. Kate, are you where you want to be?
And does that come with a sense of belonging?
Speaker 5 (43:12):
For me? This when I first got my job here
at the NFL, even just as a PA, I posted
a picture and I was like, dream job acquired? Was
why I posted? Because I had wanted to do documentaries
for a long time. I went to school for that.
I went to USC Film School and studied film and
television by mainly want to do documentaries. And I that
(43:38):
started with a love of the arts that was instilled
in me by my parents. And they me and my
mom would let me watch probably movies, but they both
would let me watch movies. I probably you wouldn't let
you kid watch, Like my favorite movie growing up when
I was four years old was The Quiet Man with
John Wayne, which I don't think is normal for a
four year old.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
Explained, what about me if you had that on your
BINGO card? List Yeah, those you're lying.
Speaker 5 (44:02):
That was my favorite movie. And so they instilled you know,
my dad would make me listen, sit with him and
like listen to music. My mom would take me museums,
and so I just developed a love of the arts
that are very very young age and knew that that's
what I wanted to get into. And then you know,
on top of that, every Sunday I sat with my
(44:22):
dad and we would live and die by how the
San Francisco forty nine ers did. So those were my
two big loves what basically the arts and sports, especially football.
And so for me, I feel like I am where
I need to be. I mean, I love being here
(44:43):
being a woman at the NFL making these stories where
we're showing not even just the stories aren't anything the
helmets of players, but of different people and different aspects
of the game that you know, are representing communities that
you might not have thought would be involved in football,
like women, like you know, two years ago, and we
(45:05):
did the Carl Nasson piece that's the first out NFL player.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
Then answer your question, well, it does because somebody who
was seeking a place to work in the arts, to
be a filmmaker, to be a documentarian. You are bringing
that love and that artistry to our world, and we
benefit from it because you are putting your unique perspective
on stories that A we didn't even know what to
(45:31):
look for, and B we wouldn't have found if we
even began. And yet you find them, you bring them
to us, and they become, They broaden, and they deepen
our understanding and our connection to this game that we
love so much. And so I just want to say
thank you to you, Kate, for the work that you're doing,
the work that you have done, and the work that
I expect from you in the days and weeks and
(45:51):
months to come. You're very good at this. I'm really
so thrilled that you made time for us today, and
I'm so proud to be your colleague, and I'm really
proud of the work that you've done. In this NFL
three sixty Women in Football special, airing this Saturday on
Fox noon Eastern. I want to thank today's other special
guest what's her name again? Oh yeah, the legend Melissa Stark,
(46:11):
and remind you one last time about NFL three sixty
Women in Football Saturday, Fox noon Eastern. You can also
access this incredible material at NFL dot com slash NFL
three sixty. And of course when we look for Kate's work,
don't forget that your weekend's end with Melissa's work. They
do for me anyway, Melissa. I mean, I watch ten
hours of football every Sunday in preparation for my job
(46:35):
during the week. And I know Monday night football is
important and I know it counts, and I know that
that's in your rearview mirror in terms of your career.
But my process ends with Melissa Stark on the field,
whoever the game interview is at the end of Sunday,
and when you're done, and when you turn and walk away, boom,
that's when my TV goes off and I can go
be a husband and a father again. So thank you,
(46:56):
thank you so much for you appreciate your friendship and
your fellowship all these years. Kate, Thanks again to both
of you for what you do, for how you do it,
and for making time for us today.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
Happy to be here, thanks for having us, and I
want to invite the listener to join us next time
when we begin our countdown to the draft.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
Thirty two teams, thirty two very specific draft agendas, we
will start in the division.
Speaker 3 (47:18):
Of the Champs.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
We're going team by team in the AFC West. That's Chiefs, Broncos, Chargers,
and Raiders. Mel I wish you'd stick around. I really
need your advice on that one. That's next time. Till then,
Shaffer Now. NFL Total Access is a production of the
NFL in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
(47:39):
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
your podcasts.
NFL Total Access is a production of the NFL and
partnership with iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
It's Wednesday, March twenty seventh, and you are listening to
NFL Total Access, the podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
That is the voice of today's special guest. She is
a witness to some of the world's biggest events. Conveniently
for us, she's nice enough to report back from those
events and share with us what it looks like and
sounds like, and most magically of all, what it feels
like at oh, I don't know, an opening ceremony of
the Olympics, a World Series, or NBA Finals Game seven.
(00:41):
She's taken us to Times Square on New Year's Eve.
That was very nice of you, to red carpet events
in Kentucky, Derby's listener. In this woman's world, you're not
near the Major League Baseball diamond, you're not next to
the NBA hardcourt, You're on it. And she's been inviting
us onto NFL fields for over twenty years now. On
Monday night, Super Bowl nights, and of course every Sunday night.
(01:03):
She pulls us into the immediacy of NFL moments, including,
of course, those Can't Catch your Breath game just ended
Raw emotion moments from guys like Tom Brady and Aaron
Rodgers and Patrick Mahomes. In her sixth season hosting the
Emmy Award winning series NFL three sixty. She is someone
who I really hope knows what a good deed her
(01:24):
work can be because it connects us. It connects all
of us in ways that only sport can. Please put
your hands together and a warm welcome for the podcast
debutante Melissa Stark. Welcome, dude.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Wait, I want to take you everywhere with me? Can
you introduce me every time I walk into a room.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Oh dude, I'll be your hype man whenever, wherever. Stark,
you don't do it halfway, hil You're listen. Your resume
is incredible. It reads to me like the story of
a lavishly rich sports fanatic who's just ripping through a
bucket list of events to attend. Have you ever have
you recovered an America's Cup? Because you kind of give
sailing vibes. I think that's the last thing that and
(02:05):
like wartime correspondent, those are the only two things missing
on your resume. You've done everything else.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
That is what I originally You know, what if you
go back to one of the original articles written about
me in Vogue, it said I wanted to be Christiana.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I'm on poor and I alwa to be covering.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Yes, but thank goodness for kids later, that just would
not have worked at all.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
But you know what one thing? Did you put golf
in there?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Because I did cover the US Open and Tiger Woods,
and I don't know if that was in there.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Oh so, listener, let the record show that that long
list of plautus wasn't quite enough for Melissa. Okay, you
can relive, Melissa. You can relive one event, one of
those spectacles that I just rattled off. Forgive me for
missing the PGA. You can go back, but only to one.
Can you possibly choose?
Speaker 2 (02:49):
No, I can't because they're also they're all so incredible
in their own right, right. I mean, when you when
you're dealing with the Tiger Woods, or then you're at
the Olympics and you're covering swimming and Michael Phelps where
you mentioned Tom Brady and those guys, I mean.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
You just can't know, You cannot choose, There's no way
to choose.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
They're all incredible and I feel so blessed that this is.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
My career well, I'm so blessed that you could join
us today. I really am so honored that you are here.
I am your host, NFL Network Senior writer Andrew Lavian.
On today's show, Melissa is joined by a second guest, Coop.
Can I get some mystery guest music here?
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Please?
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Oh, very very nice.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Our second guest is a creator, a filmmaker, and a
thoroughly fascinating human being. She is Kate A Spejo. Kate,
I'm so glad you're here.
Speaker 5 (03:32):
Thanks for having me. That's my very first podcast, so
I'm excited thro've done it with you.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Full disclosure, Kate has not slept. She has not slept.
She just flew in from the owner's meeting and where Orlando.
Sorry on two levels for that. And Melissa is coming
to us from New Jersey sort of a bloodless room
in New Jersey. Listener, you can't see it, so no judgment.
Kate is joining us right here in studio, super glamorous.
Speaker 6 (03:57):
Right.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
I told you it's pretty impressive Pod Save the World
Pod We Trust. Okay to the business at hand. Melissa
and Kate are here today on behalf of something Listener
that you need to see and I don't throw that around.
You know this, but you do you need to see
with these two and their NFL three sixty teammates have
created it's their annual Women in Football Special airing on
Fox noon Eastern that's nine am on the West Coast.
(04:20):
Set a record for this Saturday. Melissa, as host of
NFL three sixty, this is your sixth Women in Football Special,
and in that time you have brought to us so
many stories of extraordinary people, women all owners and legends
and real time sealing shatterers. Stories of NFL coaches mail
(04:41):
your friend Laurie Locust comes to mind, Stories of referees
like Sarah Thomas, and real life heroes like Kathy Lanier,
the chief Listener. Kathy Lanier is a name you need
to know. She is in charge of NFL security. That's
every stadium, every Super Bowl. We're talking top secret level
risk assessment, Navy Seal level I on the ready kind
(05:01):
of stuff. Right when we walk into stadiums and settle
in for three hours of high level entertainment, we do
so knowing that Kathy Lanier has our back. And for you, Melissa,
I know these stories get personal because yes, these are
voices of leadership and authority, but for you, they are
also treasured colleagues and friends.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
They are, and.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
I've developed a special and unique relationship. Like you said,
we've been doing this for six years. We started with
this incredible roundtable of women, and Andrea Kramer was on
it and a bunch of the women that you just mentioned.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Tony Harris, Antoinette Harris, and she was the.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
First female ever she made history to get a college
scholarship as a non kicker.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
And we've stayed in touch and now you fast forward
and I'm sure many people remember the face of the
NFL's Super Bowl commercial last year, Diana Flores.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
We had her on.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
I mean, she represents flag, she's an ambassador for the NFL.
She's like football's Mexican. She won the gold medal and
she's incredible. And you mentioned lo Locust. You know, it's
fun Low went from the Buccaneers now she's with the Titans,
and and just to hear their stories and to hear
what they overcame, and to hear that they never took no.
(06:17):
It was a common theme, you know, the hard work,
never taking no for an answer. There's not one path.
I often have people come to me and say you know,
how do I be you? Or how do how do
I break in? Or there's not one way to do it,
you know, if you look at the way I did
it twenty five plus years ago, close to thirty years ago,
(06:39):
there wasn't there, weren't iPhones, there weren't you know. I
had to befriend a cameraman. I did fake stand ups
in front of the White House. I did, you know,
all these crazy things to try to break into the business.
And there's not one way to do it.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
But I would say that.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
The themes are determination, not taking. Someone once told me,
if you don't ask, the answers always know, So just
keep asking, keep pushing, and that hard work and their
stories are incredible. And yes, like you said, you know,
I'll see Sarah Thomas during your games, come over to
(07:11):
me on the sidelines before the game or low Locust,
And it's just fun to have the sorority of women,
you know, and to see it evolve the way women
in football has evolved over the last twenty five years.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
And I know we'll get to that.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Mel If we are judged by the company we keep,
you really are kind of stacking the deck there. It's
showing off and it's not fair.
Speaker 7 (07:30):
Kate.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Coming up, you're going to make the introductions to a
woman who is on a path to become an NFL
GM and if she does, maybe when she does, she
very likely won't be the NFL's only female GM. Her
name is Ashton Washington, who at this very moment sits
with the Caleb Williams decision. That's a story you have
to hear. But first, underneath the stories of these game
(07:52):
changing women that Mel just rattled off, the names of
only a few of them, there runs a current that
was strong six years ago and it is irresistible. Now
watch football cheerlead. Listen to you guys drown on about it. Yeah, okay,
here's an idea. Give me the damn ball. Women and
girls want to play football and they are playing it
(08:13):
and they're crushing it.
Speaker 7 (08:14):
Kate.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
One of the stories in your special is called back
in the Game. Drew Brees has started a girls flag
football league, one of so many popping up everywhere wherever
this reaches you, listener, you are within driving distance of
a flag football league. And I love this segment because
it's such a measure of the moment. Kate Aesbeha. We
meet today at a moment in which girls are dreaming
(08:35):
about playing for their country while playing in their local
leagues or for their high school teams. You did play
as a kid as much as you could, but you
had dreams of playing more. Is what we are seeing
out there now kind of what you had in mind.
Speaker 5 (08:51):
I mean, I never would have imagined that it would
become like this, never mind thinking my wildest dreams. You know,
because when I was growing up, I played during recess
with the boys. I played with my male cousins out
in the backyard, and football is always my favorite sport
to play, but of course there was no place for
me to play. The only time when there actually was
(09:13):
was when I was in middle school. They actually held
a powder puff tournament for girls for you know, we
had practice for three weeks and then we had one
tournament that we went to, and it was probably you know,
I played various sports, but that was my absolute favorite
tournament or even just day playing sports I think I
(09:34):
ever had, because I loved it so much. And I
was really disappointed when our high school didn't have the
annual powderpuff game because they were, you know, they were
saying that we would fight the rival school but that
I mean they.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Were worried about fights breaking out, about fisticuffs.
Speaker 5 (09:51):
Yeah, so they were like, oh tea, yeah, well, I
mean we I'm a pretty tough person, but I'm not
gonna co but uh but yeah, so I you know,
when I first started covering a lot of these different stories,
like with Sam Gordon who was trying to get girls
tackle football sectioned in Utah and eventually lost. And then
(10:12):
you know last year with Leaving a Legacy, the other
three sixty show or three sixty feature that we did
during the women in Football episode, you know, with that one,
it was just amazing to me seeing these girls that
have been playing forever and were like, yeah, you know,
I'll play in high school and play in this high
school league and kind of set the groundwork for it
to be sanctioned in their part of California. And then
(10:35):
at the end, while we were filling with them, it
got sanctioned in the entire state of California, and it
blew my mind. And then with this latest piece back
in the game, getting to see all these it was
one hundred and forty little girls from like kindergarten to
tenth grade out there with Drew Brees in the pouring rain,
(10:56):
and none of them were complaining. They were having just
the time of their lives. And you know, as you'll
see in the piece, some of those girls talking to
them were saying things like, yeah, like I have the
option to now play in college. With this one little girl, Taylor,
who I think was about ten years old, she was
saying something like, I want to go to a high
(11:17):
school that has a really good girl's football program. If
you'd have told me that was something a girl would
have said back when I was in high school, I'd
have been like, what are you talking about? I mean,
And it's just I'm so happy with how far the
game has come and how it's going to expand, because
it's only getting bigger, Like even just in the short
time I've been covering it, it has grown exponentially, and it
(11:39):
makes me so happy. It's a little bit jealous, to
be honest.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Here is an excerpt of Back in the Game.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
Now.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
You will hear the voice of Drew Brees, for sure,
but listen for the real stars of this piece, the
voices of these little girls, these young kids, these football players.
Speaker 6 (11:54):
You know, I've got a fourth grade daughter and I
would love them nothing more to see her playing flag
football because I think that she's gonna be the next
Olympic athlete representing the US, but because I know what this.
Speaker 8 (12:07):
Sport has meant for me.
Speaker 6 (12:08):
I know what this sport means to so many.
Speaker 9 (12:10):
Young people playing against guys. The show up to the
game and they all kind of give you that look like, oh,
we're playing a girls team, like this is gonna be easy.
Then you beat them and it's like you aren't better
than us just because you're guys.
Speaker 5 (12:21):
So it really boost your confidence.
Speaker 8 (12:24):
It's showing that girls can do step two, neck fatures sets,
powerful and strongest toys.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
You are listening to NFL Total Access the podcast Andrew
Lady with NFL three sixty host Melissa Stark and NFL
three sixty producer Kate Espejo. The sixth annual Women in
Football Special heirs Saturday twelve noon Eastern on Fox. You
can also watch these segments on NFL dot com slash
NFL three sixty. Mel the best quote for me in
(13:01):
the flag football segment that we heard right before the break,
you aren't better than us just because your guys were
just as powerful. Just amazing truth and wisdom from a
twelve year old, but in your career that was an
idea that was met with resistance. You were tested over
and over again by men who were threatened enough to
(13:24):
make taking their test part of your gig. Do you
mind taking us back to moments that will make me
ashamed but will really ground us in the truth of
how far we've come, because there is a story or
seven that you can tell us about this.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Well, before I get to that, I just want to
say that the piece with Drew Brees is awesome and
his enthusiasm for these girls and he tells you that
the girls are easier to coach than the boys, and
just the smile on his face, and that came out
of I actually called Drew because I also am the
sideline for Sunday Night Football, and I called Drew about
something about asking him about some quarterback and he said, well, I'm.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
On my way to go coach, you know, to go
coach this league.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
And I said, oh my gosh, we want to do
you know, we want to do this story. This is
fabulous And it's not even one of his own daughters.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Am I I'm right, Kate, right with that, It's not even.
Speaker 5 (14:16):
Yeah, his daughter does not play. Yeah, yeah, you.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Have to see this. This Drew Brees is amazing. Okay,
so let me take you back to you know, I
hope women nowadays, or young girls they're getting into this
career don't experience, you know, some of the things.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
That I did, you know, with baseball. You know, they
would ask me.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
I'd walk in or I'd be out in a batting
practice and they'd ask if Peter Gammons, who was you know,
the baseball expert or guru at ESPN, had given me
all my questions. Or I was covering golf and Jack
Nicholas said that I might be pretty to look at,
but I was standing in his line and could I
please move? It was a made for Teague TV golf
event where you know, you're in front of the cameras,
(15:02):
and it was casual. It wasn't you know, it wasn't
the US Open or anything, you know, just things like that.
And I remember Andy Rooney and people probably don't, you know,
I'm not sure the age of the people listening to
this podcast, but he was on sixty minutes and he
would give his clothing thoughts, right, and he said a
woman should not be talking to us about football, and
(15:24):
you know, even my own husband, it's hilarious. I can't
even believe I'm sharing this. But he played football at
Princeton and his brother was the best man at our
wedding and he said something to the effect of my
brother when he first saw a woman talking about football,
fall what can a woman teach me about football? And
we have this very funny picture of our wedding where
my husband's putting his hands over his mouth like oops, thinking, well, my.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
How times have changed, you know.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
So it just it's when you say ashamed, make you ashamed,
you know, it's it's it just wasn't the norm.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
And now if.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Flag football was what it is right now, I have
twin seventeen year old daughters. If it they would have
loved it. They missed that boat by you know, Kate,
I don't know five years.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
You know, however, in the.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Years it is, they just missed it, right, So they
do track in soccer instead.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
But how fun for these for this up.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
And coming generation of young girls. So I'm excited about
where we are and how far we've come, especially given
the perspective, yes that I do have, being one of
the first females to be in this whole man's world.
I remember I would go, I would wear my glasses,
I would wear no makeup. I just wanted to be
one of the guys. I just wanted to blend in.
(16:38):
So that was part of it.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
That was part of the deal for you. Was an
intentional kind of hiding of your femininity in order to
what in order to fit in? What was the angle?
Speaker 3 (16:47):
I mean, yes, just.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
To not stand out as a woman, not be flirted with,
not be hit on, you know, that type of thing.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
I think it was hard.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
In that age era of you know, sources are everything,
our connections are everything. How many cell phones numbers I
have in my phone is everything of who I if
I can call this person and this person, you know,
it's that's critical.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
And to get up next to a guy and say, well,
can I have your cell phone?
Speaker 2 (17:19):
It's just when you're a twenty five year old, you know,
I single female is is difficult. It might you know what,
it might still be very difficult. Now I have I
have the perspective now of you know, kind of being
their mother's age, being married, having four kids. So I
don't face that I have and I have the luxury
(17:41):
of that. I would say now, so that might still exist,
because yeah, I mean, let's face it, it probably does.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Kate and Melissa, there is a segment in your Women
in Football Special again that airs Saturday on Fox twelve
noon Eastern. Set a reminder. It's called Unapologetic. It's the
story of Aette Harris, who mel you referenced earlier on
this show. Tony Harris, the first woman to earn a
collegiate scholarship as a non kicker. She's a defensive back.
Her story is stunning because what it took to prove
(18:11):
herself on the football field was child's play compared to
what she faced in the way of challenges personal and
familial off of it. But she was the only girl
playing varsity football, and the kind of resistance that she
got for that isn't hard to guess. Listener, this is
a man's sport. You can hear that one echoing through
so many halls even to this day. Some dismissed it
(18:32):
as a publicity stunt. No way, that's for real, they said.
And then this is my favorite, the doubt disguised as concern.
Countless questions along the lines of are you sure about this?
And yeah, listener, Tony Harris was sure about this even
after her cancer treatments.
Speaker 7 (18:55):
I went to the doctor's office because my cycle was
really irregular. That was just one of the roughest moments
in my life. I went from one seventy four to
ninety pounds. The back of my hair had fell out,
and at that moment, I didn't know what to do.
I wanted to give up. Now with some of the
(19:16):
hardest training I had in my life, anytime I hit
something on my.
Speaker 10 (19:20):
Body with bruise and then she started working out more,
starting to physically grow.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
She started playing muscle back on our prime.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
She struggled, but she got through it.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
That is an excerpt from Unapologetic, The Tony Harris Story,
part of the NFL three sixty Women in Football special. Melissa,
you mentioned your twin girls, who, like all of our children,
live in a see me, be me world. It helps
to see someone who looks like you doing the thing
that you want to do in order to believe the
dream of doing it too. Seeing Tony Harris play give
(19:54):
shape to a dream. It's totally possible. She proves that
it is. We'll see it from her and women like
Callie Brownson, who played for years and now coaches for
the Browns. Mel your daughters get to see mom do
some pretty cool stuff. That's a dream that you make
possible for so many women. Women like the lead producer
of the Tony Harrispiece, Emmy Award winner, India right, who's
(20:14):
sitting in this studio right now. You can't see her,
but she's here. Who saw you on television when she
was growing up? And she pointed at the television and
she said, and I quoted you, India. I want to
do that someday, Melissa Stark. My question for you, who
was your Melissa Stark?
Speaker 2 (20:33):
That's so interesting. I didn't know you were going there.
There wasn't that's just it. There wasn't one. There wasn't one,
you know, there was a I love interviewing and getting information,
and so I guess I would say it was, you know,
a Diane.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Sawyer or a Barbara Walters. And I also like news.
I like the Newsy Aspect.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Right, that explained, that explained the the Christian a connection. Right, yes, thank.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
God that mel Thank goodness, right, right. I mean my
life would be completely different. But you know, going back
to my girls, and it's funny that you say that,
and when India said that to me in one of
our discussions, and that was a couple of years ago
on one of our Women in Football episodes. You know,
it's incredible that she saw it that way.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
But when you're doing it and you're living it, you don't.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
You just think I'm doing what I've always wanted to do,
and I'm just doing it.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
You're not. I'm not necessarily thinking about that. But but
then on the flip.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Side, I am so happy anybody I went to the
University of Virginia, anybody who calls me from the University
of Virginia, or any girl you know, any family friend
or whatever that wants to get in, I am so
happy to talk to them and to encourage them and
also to explain, you know, how hard it is. And
I mentioned that I went back and I was a
guest speaker at one of the broadcasting classes at UVA
(21:53):
recently and someone had a fantastic question and they said,
what would you tell yourself, like your twenty five year
old self now looking back? And I just thought, you
know what, I would tell myself that I belonged because
I didn't feel that at that time. I definitely had
(22:14):
that doubt again not wearing makeup, wearing glasses doing this?
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Do I belong? I'm in a man's world? Can I
make it? What do they think of me? Am I
smart enough? Am I do I know football enough?
Speaker 6 (22:26):
You know?
Speaker 2 (22:26):
I mean you're constantly questioning yourself because you look around
and really you at that time, you really are the
only female there. Now it's completely different and it's evolved,
and you see so many more and you know it's
a different story. But and I hope that, and I
(22:47):
really hope that for women now, and as we talk
about on this NFL three sixty special, that we have
whenever anybody does like a Tony Harris excels at what
she's doing or low locus as a coach, whenever it
opens the doors for these women, for this next generation
(23:07):
of women. So I champion anyone who does a fantastic
job in broadcasting and anyone. You know, it's I'm not
looking at it as it's I do look at it
as like this sword, this women that we need to
champion and we need to uplift, you know, not necessarily
as a threat. You know that it's fabulous that more
(23:28):
and more women are getting into it.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
After the break Kate will introduce us to the first
female scout in Chicago Bears history, who is being talked
about as a future NFL GM NFL Total Access the
podcast coming right back. You are listening to the NFL
(24:00):
Total Access to podcast Andrew Lady with Melissa Stark and
Kate Espejo, who are here on behalf of the NFL
three sixty Women in Football special that's airing on Fox
Saturday noon Eastern. I'm gonna keep saying it until you
set your record. You can also check it out on
NFL dot com slash NFL three sixty Now Kate. The
special features a story called Jobs Not Finished that the
(24:23):
mantra of an extraordinary person named Ashton Washington, the first
female scout in the history of the Chicago Bears franchise. Kate,
NFL three sixty producer, this is your passion project. You
found it, you pitched it, you fought for it, and
you made it happen. What made Ashton's a story that
you had to tell?
Speaker 5 (24:44):
There are so many different aspects of her story that
I really truly loved. It was one of the moments
where I just kind of despise what I was staying
on TV, and I won't say who it was, but
it was you could find it easily as a player.
After a woman asked him a question about a route
and he said, Oh, I think this is hilarious, a
female asking me a quest about routes. And to me,
you know, it's like, I can kind of talk about routes.
(25:04):
I know Melissa can talk about routes. There are so
many women in this building that can talk about routes.
And with Ashton hearing that she was a scout, to me,
it's like, well, not only does this woman probably know about,
you know, routes and plays and coverage and everything, but
she can also determine what makes a great player. And
to me, that's just super interesting because when you imagine scout,
(25:26):
you'll tend to think about guys that have played before,
and Ashton hadn't. But she through watching her brother play
and her father coach, she developed the love for the
game and could kind of help her brother get better
by talking with her dad and watching him play. And
(25:48):
that's where she fell in love with football. And so
she if she fell in love with football and decided that,
you know, rather than become an attorney, she wanted to
get into fotball as a career, and so she fought
so so hard, took all these internships, took jobs that
paid her nothing, and took other jobs at places like
(26:12):
a taco truck and a grocery store to help fund
her traveling to different parts of the country to kind
of become an expert in high school recruits and everything.
And that to me was a testament to her passion
and how much she wanted it. And then once she
finally kind of got her big break where she got
(26:32):
hired on by coach Lovey Smith, she then decides, with
her very first paycheck that she's ever gotten, that she's
going to start a scholarship, the Ashton Washington Women of
Color Scholarship, in order to help assist young women of
color that are going to HBCUs in Mississippi, because that
was what her grandmother did. So to me, it was
(26:53):
just like, here's someone that quite literally blazed their own
trail to get into football and then doesn't shut the
door behind her and sees, you know, this was difficult
for me, so I'm going to make it easier for others.
And in working with her, I mean, she's an incredible
human and I truly loved working on it, and she's
(27:16):
someone that I would not be surprised if Ashton were
to become the very first female GM of an NFL team.
She's just got it.
Speaker 4 (27:25):
During the time my brother was playing flag football, my
dad was coaching, I would look around and I would
see girls cheerleading. I'm like, okay, so girls are supposed
to just cheerlead and cheerlead boys on as they play football.
And for me, I was never the cheerleading type. This
is not it, This is not what I want to do.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
I was hanging on her every word. This piece is incredible,
and I love that she took chances again, didn't take
no for an answer, and she didn't want.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
To accept the trip. She met some cheerleaders, you know,
the traditional roles. She didn't want to accept the traditional roles,
and she created this.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
I'm a big believer in creating your own opportunities. It
takes work, it takes guts, and she's got it.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
It's beautiful filmmaking, O, Kate, it really is, and a
wonderful piece of storytelling. I am so taken by the
strength of Ashton's power, or maybe it's the power of
her strength. It's undeniable, but it's delivered in such a
chill and joyful way. She is a lifelong student of
the game, and she is, as you discovered, commanding a
(28:39):
great deal of respect and attention in the Bears organization.
I get a sense from you that Ashton Washington is
a bit of a rock star.
Speaker 5 (28:48):
Oh that's putting it mildly. When I was walking around
just the building with her when we were filming, every
single person that building knew who she was. And it
wasn't just like, oh hey, hi, Ashton. It was like
she would stop and talk to them and and you know,
I have at length conversation with them, and they all
you could tell just wanted you know, I felt like
I was walking around with the cool kid. When she
(29:10):
sat with us here breakfast, I felt like we were
at the cool kid's table with her. Because she just
is one of those people that just by being herself
draws you to her. She's got she's just so magnetic,
and she commands a lot of respect just because she's
so I mean, she's so intentional with everything that she does,
and you can tell that she's a person that really
(29:30):
wants to uplift everyone around her. In the piece. We
kind of touch upon the fact that Ashton, you know,
she reads a lot of books and has this this
growth mindset, and again she tries to help others. And
so what she does is, whenever she reads a book
that she really likes or thinks that someone can take
something from, she'll buy another copy. She'll inscribe it and
(29:52):
give it to someone that she thinks could use it.
She's done that for Ryan Poles, the GM. He mentioned
a few books that she's given him. So, you know,
she's just someone that you can tell. She's just the
only way I can describe her is that she's just
super special.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
You employed chess and puzzle imagery throughout this film. Ashton
speaks of it, how intentional you just mentioned she is,
how strategic she is. Step one for her was knowing
by reading, gathering a wealth of information, challenging it, and
applying it.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
Out of nowhere.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
I get an email from University Illinois. It says, you
have a zoom call set with coach Lovey Smith.
Speaker 11 (30:30):
When you're good at your profession, where it gets around
we were looking for a person that could evaluate players
that would be good, you know, selling.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
Our university and he says a lot of people have
been telling me to get in contact with you. Why
is it?
Speaker 1 (30:51):
And she believes that if you want to be great,
you should study the greats that precede you. Very strategic approach.
She takes a four point plan she referenced as I
believe of reading, dreaming, working, strategizing, always getting better and
when faced with a challenge, in her case it was
getting fired four months into what she thought was going
to be her big break, she relies on the most
(31:13):
trusted strategies of all the basics, the foundational truths. Kate,
you fought for this story, as I mentioned before. Was
there a moment while making it when you knew this
is why I fought for.
Speaker 5 (31:25):
This story Ashton's interview, Because that was the moment where
when we had first started a lot of people, because
we had no idea going into it, we just thought, oh,
she's a scout, this is really cool. This is a
great story. You know, play a personnel coordinator. And we thought, okay,
well we'll just talk about how she faced all this
different adversity getting into the role that she has now.
(31:46):
And then when we dived a bit deeper, we realized,
oh no, this is just the beginning of where she
could end up. You know, her trajectory is just headed
straight up. And so you know, I interviewed Ryan and
George McCaskey and Kevin Warren, all these, I mean, the
guys that are running the Bears organization, and each and
(32:09):
every one of them said, Ashton could be a GM.
Speaker 10 (32:12):
She's just all about hard work, dedication, fairness. She can
do whatever she wants. She could be a general manager,
she could be a president. She could be a CEO
if he just transcends race and gender.
Speaker 5 (32:25):
The way that she was talking about things, the way
that she was kind of walking me through her story,
led me to believe that, like, yeah, this is someone
who a huge, major setback, like being let go. When
she was let go from the University of Illinois was
just a blip in her story. To me, it would
have been devastating.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
I probably would Oh, Jimmy, it would have been totally directed. Yeah,
I would have lost seek new pastures exactly.
Speaker 5 (32:47):
Not her, not her. No, for her, it was like
all right, she her dad says this, and it's actually
not in the piece, but in the interview he told me,
he said, I she called me and she said, can
I be sad for a day, and he said, you
got a day, and so she said, okay. She took
a day to be sad and then just immediately jump
back on the horse and just start sending emails and
(33:08):
reaching out to people and trying to find another way back,
and then ended up with the Chicago Bankers pretty shortly.
Speaker 4 (33:16):
After another fire was lit. Back at it again, let's
get it. Job's not finished.
Speaker 5 (33:23):
To me, that just goes to show how absolutely determined
she is to just leave her mark on the NFL.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
How determined she is, but also how knowledgeable she is,
because the fact is she got that call from the
Bears because she had already established in those four months
at Illinois and then all the years prior, a reputation
based on acumen, based on knowing the answer, based on
being able to read players as they stand now and
what their ceiling might be, projection versus production. All of that,
(33:52):
I'm amazed at Ashton Washington's confidence to let her authentic
self remain unmasked and seemingly unafraid. She doesn't rely on
bombast or arrogance. Listener. You can hear it in the clip.
She relies on what she has learned and what she trusts,
on what she feels, and then she pairs that with
a famed attention to detail. But Kate, as you mentioned before,
(34:13):
and I want to put a finer point on it,
Ashton Washington is also in a hurry to help others succeed.
You artfully reveal a character of real significance in this film,
the recipient of an Ashton Washington scholarship, which I find astonishing.
I find it such a true measure of her as
a human being that she is reaching back to help
others the moment she's in the door. This is defining
(34:35):
to her character.
Speaker 5 (34:37):
Oh yeah, I mean that was because I had thought
that she had started that Initially, I thought that she
had started that scholarship when she was at the Bears.
But no, she started it with her very first paycheck,
the very first time that she had received any money
from a job in football. She said, Okay, I'm going
to start this scholarship for young women of color in Mississippi.
(34:58):
This is a young woman who who doesn't have to
do this. There's no reason she should. I mean, I
think just she's a great example of representation just by
being herself. But she also wants to make sure that
others have an easier path than her. You know, she
kind of blazed the trail, but she's trying to make
sure that those that come behind her have it much
(35:18):
easier than her.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Ambition and altruism rarely share the same spirit. Ashton Washington's
extraordinary story titled Jobs Not Finished, directed and produced by
Kate Esbeho, is part of the NFL three sixty Women
in Football Special Saturday noon Eastern on Fox. Coming up
after the break, Melissa Stark time traveler. That's right because
her career spans past and present and future, and Melissa,
(35:42):
I want to know from where you stand what the
future holds. This special episode of NFL Total Access to
Podcast is coming right back. Thank you for listening to
NFL Total Access to Podcast. Andrew Lady here with a
now monthly reminder to all of you listening that NFL
three sixty is doing the most compelling and I would
argue the most important work around these parts. Today's guests
(36:04):
Melissa Stark and Kate Espejo, host and producer, respectively, of
the NFL three sixty Women in Football Special, airing Saturday
noon Eastern on Fox. It is a show informed by
and inspired by football, but listener, it's bigger than football.
In NFL three sixty. Sport is the prism and through
it shines the light of great story and great character
(36:24):
Melissa and Kate. The final segment of your show is
something of a fireside chat, a round table discussion between
Melissa and analytics expert Cynthia Freeland and the host of
NFL Total Access to the broadcast, Kimmy checks and mel
It's a great way to finish the show. It's so personal,
it's so raw, and you get from both Kimmy and
Cynthia fascinating details about their journeys in their life and
(36:48):
their journeys in their career in football. Kimmy rising through
the ranks of an NFL program aimed at identifying and
nurturing talent, and she is immensely talented, so much so
that being uniquely her her as she told you, was
not just her goal, but it was also her method
and her superpower. Cynthia, having turned a master's degree in
predictive analytics and an algorithm, she coded herself by the
(37:11):
way into a role as tracker of NFL trends and
reader of NFL t leaves a studious approach that she
herself calls the anti hot take take. Kate, you cultivated
the dreams of a kid from central California growing up
amongst the orange groves of Porterville, to be an artist,
to be a storyteller, to be a filmmaker, to be
your authentic self, who, like Ashton Washington, you didn't know
(37:35):
exactly what you wanted to do, but you knew that
you wanted to do something great.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Mel.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
You started as a production assistant in college athletics at
the University of Virginia in my home state, and now
you are one of the most recognizable people in all
of sport. And I hope that there are young women
listening or parents of young women that invite them to listen,
so they can be encouraged by the diversity of experience
in this room alone, by the countless angles of approach
(38:02):
taken by women in football.
Speaker 10 (38:05):
Mel.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
We were just talking the other day and you said
with joy, and you said it earlier on this podcast,
that there is no one way to do it. And
I think that's the glorious truth, right There is no
single lane to merge onto. There are countless ways in
to become a scout, a coach, an analyst, a reporter,
and yes a player too, and one day soon an
NFL GM. I think maybe you would agree that's the
(38:27):
ultimate test of how far we've come is that there
are so many different ways to get in, and there's.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
There's so many different ways to get in, and there's
so many more opportunities, and you don't have to be.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
Pin to one of them. You can.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
You can explore many different areas now and the doors
have been opened, the doors have been I guess knocked down.
I don't know if the women, you know, some of
the women don't want to look at themselves that way.
They don't. Locus always says, I'm not a pioneer, just
call me coast that title. I just she feels like
she's made it if she's sitting in a meeting and
(39:06):
they just say, hey, coach, you know.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
And that's the way I thought, like, I just want
to be one of the one of you know.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
It used to be like I'm one of the guys,
but now just you know, one of I don't even
know what the word war it is, but you just want.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
To I think maybe maybe it's being one of one
being your just being your true authentic self being yourself.
And the fact is that if if that door was
kicked down, then there are Melissa Stark bootmarks on that
door because you were part of the group that was
kicking that door down. But mel you heard Cynthias talk
about what she called opportunity cost, which to me at
(39:41):
first sounded like a business phrase, but then I realized
she meant that for women, there tend to be very
specific costs attached to each and every opportunity. You want
to break molds, you want to shatter ceilings, you want
to challenge Jurassic notions of gender roles, Well there's an
opportunity cost. You want to be a mom too, Well,
there's there's an opportunity cost.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
Mail.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
You have four children, you have a remarkable career and
an enviable platform. You seem to have it all. Here's
a tough question. How what's the trick?
Speaker 3 (40:12):
I know that's the question, right, How do you have
it all?
Speaker 2 (40:14):
I walked away, I left, and I was okay leaving.
I said, you know, if I having children and having
a family was very important to me, so I had
I was the sideline reporter for Monday Night Football when
I was twenty six years old and then I was
covering Olympics and I was pregnant with my first child
(40:35):
and went to the Today Show because ultimately, remember I
told you I absolutely loved news, I realized news is
very difficult for a mother because nothing's planned, everything is breaking.
So sports, Ultimately, anytime I was reading.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
The news on the Today Show, I would read the news.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
I would read the news and a sports story would
come on and I would absolutely light up.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
So sports is where I belong. I absolutely know it.
But yes, I left. I had four kids in under.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Four years, that includes twins, and so I left from
mom about two thousand and eight after the Beijing Olympics
till about twenty twelve, and I had to be okay
with that. I had to say, Okay, this is what
I've got to put my family first. So, like I said, everyone,
and you know what's so fun now? Is? I always
said then, gosh, I wish I had kids that could
(41:27):
have appreciated this, that could be on the fields with me,
that you know, And now they are and it's so
much fun. Our dog is named Brady. My daughter absolutely
adors Tom Brady. She got to meet him at Christmas
last year. It's just it's now they come along.
Speaker 3 (41:41):
And they're a part of it. And I didn't miss
all of that.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
But I had to have and this is really important,
I had to have champions along the way.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
I had to have people that believed in me. And
really a.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
Big one for me was John Madden. And I have
to say John Madden, you know, he wanted he just
for whatever reason. I was almost like a daughter, but
I was also a coworker. But I was someone who
he could train. You know. He brought me in, he
taught me how to watch film, He respected me. He
(42:12):
just he became such a dear friend and that really helped.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
And so anybody who's.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Listening, I would just say, you know, find that person,
Find someone who believes in you, or can mentor you,
or can take you under their wing, because you.
Speaker 3 (42:29):
More than ever then I think I needed it. You know,
maybe now not.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
As much because we have paid the way and we
have created a lot of these roles and it is
more accepted.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
But boy, I needed that then. That is the absolute truth, Kate.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
I think the real American dream isn't riches and fame,
as nice as that would be, but I reckon the
real American dream is more nuanced than that. I think
it's a luxury that comes from a sense of peace,
a sense of belonging. Mel you mentioned belonging a moment ago,
and I think that's nail on the head, knowing that
you're with the right people, knowing that you're where you
(43:05):
need to be. Kate, are you where you want to be?
And does that come with a sense of belonging?
Speaker 5 (43:12):
For me? This when I first got my job here
at the NFL, even just as a PA, I posted
a picture and I was like, dream job acquired? Was
why I posted? Because I had wanted to do documentaries
for a long time. I went to school for that.
I went to USC Film School and studied film and
television by mainly want to do documentaries. And I that
(43:38):
started with a love of the arts that was instilled
in me by my parents. And they me and my
mom would let me watch probably movies, but they both
would let me watch movies. I probably you wouldn't let
you kid watch, Like my favorite movie growing up when
I was four years old was The Quiet Man with
John Wayne, which I don't think is normal for a
four year old.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
Explained, what about me if you had that on your
BINGO card? List Yeah, those you're lying.
Speaker 5 (44:02):
That was my favorite movie. And so they instilled you know,
my dad would make me listen, sit with him and
like listen to music. My mom would take me museums,
and so I just developed a love of the arts
that are very very young age and knew that that's
what I wanted to get into. And then you know,
on top of that, every Sunday I sat with my
(44:22):
dad and we would live and die by how the
San Francisco forty nine ers did. So those were my
two big loves what basically the arts and sports, especially football.
And so for me, I feel like I am where
I need to be. I mean, I love being here
(44:43):
being a woman at the NFL making these stories where
we're showing not even just the stories aren't anything the
helmets of players, but of different people and different aspects
of the game that you know, are representing communities that
you might not have thought would be involved in football,
like women, like you know, two years ago, and we
(45:05):
did the Carl Nasson piece that's the first out NFL player.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
Then answer your question, well, it does because somebody who
was seeking a place to work in the arts, to
be a filmmaker, to be a documentarian. You are bringing
that love and that artistry to our world, and we
benefit from it because you are putting your unique perspective
on stories that A we didn't even know what to
(45:31):
look for, and B we wouldn't have found if we
even began. And yet you find them, you bring them
to us, and they become, They broaden, and they deepen
our understanding and our connection to this game that we
love so much. And so I just want to say
thank you to you, Kate, for the work that you're doing,
the work that you have done, and the work that
I expect from you in the days and weeks and
(45:51):
months to come. You're very good at this. I'm really
so thrilled that you made time for us today, and
I'm so proud to be your colleague, and I'm really
proud of the work that you've done. In this NFL
three sixty Women in Football special, airing this Saturday on
Fox noon Eastern. I want to thank today's other special
guest what's her name again? Oh yeah, the legend Melissa Stark,
(46:11):
and remind you one last time about NFL three sixty
Women in Football Saturday, Fox noon Eastern. You can also
access this incredible material at NFL dot com slash NFL
three sixty. And of course when we look for Kate's work,
don't forget that your weekend's end with Melissa's work. They
do for me anyway, Melissa. I mean, I watch ten
hours of football every Sunday in preparation for my job
(46:35):
during the week. And I know Monday night football is
important and I know it counts, and I know that
that's in your rearview mirror in terms of your career.
But my process ends with Melissa Stark on the field,
whoever the game interview is at the end of Sunday,
and when you're done, and when you turn and walk away, boom,
that's when my TV goes off and I can go
be a husband and a father again. So thank you,
(46:56):
thank you so much for you appreciate your friendship and
your fellowship all these years. Kate, Thanks again to both
of you for what you do, for how you do it,
and for making time for us today.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
Happy to be here, thanks for having us, and I
want to invite the listener to join us next time
when we begin our countdown to the draft.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
Thirty two teams, thirty two very specific draft agendas, we
will start in the division.
Speaker 3 (47:18):
Of the Champs.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
We're going team by team in the AFC West. That's Chiefs, Broncos, Chargers,
and Raiders. Mel I wish you'd stick around. I really
need your advice on that one. That's next time. Till then,
Shaffer Now. NFL Total Access is a production of the
NFL in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
(47:39):
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
your podcasts.
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