April 7, 2022 • 32 mins
In this episode of the Tape Heads: Draft Season podcast, hosts Bob Wischusen and Greg Cosell welcome Fmr Ohio State and NFL Linebacker Bobby Carpenter to discuss the player experience from the Combine to the NFL Draft. Bobby talks about the workouts with each teams and how they will really push you to your limits. The demands of players from college to the NFL has changed so much, we look at the little things that separate being great from really good. Bobby explains how the linebacker position has changed and the need to keep up with running back and tight ends. We look at some of the prospects with Bobby including Cincinnati's Darrian Beavers and Ohio State's Chris Olave. We wrap up with how the NFL Draft plays out and what positions may slide down a bit.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Tape Eds. It's a production of I Heart Media and
the NFL. Welcome to another edition of Tapeds Draft Season.
Bobo Shues and longtime radio voice of the New York Jets,
also a college football broadcaster for ESPN and Greg co
Sal for forty plus years, has been breaking down the
(00:23):
All twenty two at NFL films, not only prepping NFL
matchups game by game throughout the season, but also in
the quote unquote off season. What are we talking about?
There is no such thing as an off season now
in the world of football, but in the off season,
Greg breaks down the All twenty two of the college
football prospects, hence tape heeds Draft season. As we get
you set for the NFL Draft, we've been bringing on
(00:45):
different guests. We've had some coaches, had some scouts. Now
we're going to go to a guy that has lived
this life as a big time college football player, a
first round draft choice, played in the NFL, and now
you can hear him every day on the morning Juice
six to nine am ninety seven point one. The fan
in Columbo US and that of course is Ohio State
(01:05):
legend Bobby Carpenter joining us here with Greg Costell and
Bobo Shoes and Bobby thanks for doing this. We appreciate it.
My playlure guys. I mean, the NFL never stops if
they found a way and now fully monopolize it into
a twelve month a year season. And you know, the
free agency I think proved that despite the fact that
March Madness and everything else was going on, you get it.
You get the announcement of Tom Brady returning, or huge
(01:27):
quarterback trades and movement. I mean, that's gonna usurp any
other news for the day, yep. And we will definitely
get to those storylines with you because you're right there.
The way that the quarterback market has flipped around in
this offseason might even tell you something about what the
NFL thinks of the quarterback market in this draft. But
can you just kind of take us through what these
(01:48):
kids are going through? Because you lived this right you
played at one of, if not arguably the biggest college
football program there is. You were then obviously a guy
that had to go through the whole draft process. Maybe
how much it's changed compared to what these guys are
going through. But right now, I I'm a college football
player getting ready to go be a pro pick in
the first round. What are these kids going through? Well,
(02:08):
I mean a little bit depends on kind of where
you're at, whether you're kind of a day one, day two,
day three guy, And there's a little bit of blending
that goes on obviously between those. But you know, I
was talking to you know, Krystal Lava and Garrett Wilson
and High States practice on Tuesday and those guys like
now it's a visit season. Like it starts off you
have your Bowl games, you're you're All Star games, and
you have the combine, you know, and then you're you're
(02:30):
trying to get healthy for your Pro day and then
you start having workouts and now it's like, hey, we're
what teams are bringing you in? Who who wants to
sit down and get in front of you and maybe
they take a little medical look at you while you're there,
but you'll really bring you into kind of two year
through a facility. They almost treat you a little bit
like a recruiting visit, even though it's it's not your
choice at all. It's a player, but those guys, you
(02:51):
schedule those up and then there are some teams that
they want to come in and depending on you know
where you're at and where you think you're also gonna
get drafted, you know, going through the process of hey,
there's uh there's some teams that want to work out,
and those workouts are done a lot of times by
position coaches, coordinators, maybe a scout, you know, someone like that,
and those, uh, those can get a little rough because
(03:12):
it depending on how many people are there and what
they tell you. I always joke one of my uh
her mind was with Dallas and Paul Pasta one who
worked me out for about an hour and fifteen minutes
by myself, but I was completely gassed at the end.
And the last thing you want to do as a
player is say no, boss, like I can't handle it.
But there's no one out there to save you, no
one out there to stop it, and they're just gonna
(03:33):
drive you into the ground. Well, you know, it's funny.
Obviously you you're very familiar obviously as a player, and
obviously being in Columbus with Ohio State, you know, there's
always a lot of talk about the nature of that
offense and how it translates to the NFL with not
only the quarterback and they'll have one coming out next
year obviously, but also I would think with the receivers
(03:53):
and just what they do in the past game, how
do you think that that factor is in Because obviously
they have two receivers coming out this year Uman Crystal
Lava and Art Wilson, who are I would assume from
everything you hear, and I've obviously done both guys in detail,
they're going to be first round picks, probably Wilson before
a love. How do you sort of look at what
(04:15):
they do offensively and think about in terms of what's
demanded in the NFL. Well, that's our guys to do.
You know, a lot of different stuff and they've moved,
you know, especially Wilson, you know inside and outside. They
asked him to block these guys by special teams and
so it's not just line up and we see now
that's how homogenized college football is. It's all right, everybody
(04:37):
gets in three or four wide receivers. It's kind of
fixed formations for the most part. You know, some of
the stuff they do, the motioning, the flipping guys inside
and outside, and then the convertible routes based upon coverages,
and that's something you see a lot in the NFL
that you know, if you're in a single high or
too high man versus zone, whether you push you out
all the way through, whether you set it down, and
(04:57):
so understanding those concepts and how they all work, how
that's gonna work obviously with the confines of your offense
and you're passing game. But really the biggest attribute for
the receiver's coming in is there is their skill on
their releases and their route running and talking to it
with Sean Jefferson, who has the wide receiver coach for
the Cards, about this and he's like, all your guys
are so good, and it's like, you know, we've got
(05:19):
heartline here he goes man that he prepares the heck
out of them. Like they do a great job with
their routes. You know, they drive, they drive to their point,
they don't short step when they don't need to. They
do a great job with their stems moving guys off
the spot. Like all of these little things that people
think playing receivers just running fast and catching the ball.
Like there's a lot of guys that can run fast,
there's a lot of guys that can catch a football,
(05:41):
But it's the ability to create that separation against the
really talented defensive backs, and especially at the next level,
where those guys are gonna be able to read and
feel your body movement and they're gonna basically know your
route sometimes before you even know it. But Brian's job
of teaching those guys has been absolutely phenomenal and he's
only going to continue to do this as he's been
(06:01):
here developing these guys. And as good as those two
harm me Jackson Smith and JAGB Marvin Harrison Jr. You
watch them and you're like, Wow, they're not that far
off and they've got a whole another season to go.
So it's pretty exciting to kind of watch those guys
developed and watch him understand your NFL route concepts, but
also the technical skill and expertise that they possessed of
(06:21):
their position. You know, one thing, I'm just to jump
in on what you said that you hit on something
that I think is so so important, which may be
a lot of fans don't realize, because you have to
get particularly an off coverage corner, Bobby. You have to
get him off his spot. You have to make him
turn his body one way or the other. You've got
to make him move his feet and I don't think
people think about it in that way, because that's the
(06:44):
way it's taught. You've got to get him to move
because if he's just standing there and and you're not,
you're not breaking down the cushion or you're not forcing
him to move, then he's just playing you very easily.
So you've got to get him off his spot well.
And that's so that's so Brian like, and that's why
they teach these guys. Understand the coverage you're looking at
in you said, if you're playing off, you're playing press
(07:05):
is too high as a single high, but knowing like
where's your leverage? Where is where is your point of protection?
Because you're gonna have help somewhere, And so that's why
you're kind of funnel the receiver potentially to that guy,
unless it's just a pure, you know, pure man. But
a lot of times it's like, hey, what are you
trying to eliminate? Do I work you outside, do I
press you, I get you to open your hips? Do
you take that that step to protect where you know
(07:28):
that you can't let me get And then all of
a sudden, I've created all this space and separation. And
so that's what he teaches these guys. You watch him,
and right down the belly, they understand exactly where they've
got to get to to have either open their hips
step open them inside or outside. And then all of
a sudden, now I've got you right where I want you,
and I can begin to work away from your leverage
and try to create that space. You know, Bob, you
(07:48):
talk about the corners and the wide receivers. You know,
we spend a lot of time on Tuesday talking just
about how football has changed from college to the pros
from the days you played. I mean, you were that
you know, kind of prototypical big ten linebacker back in
those days, that's what you wanted. You wanted to go
tackle that prototypical big ten running back. And you know,
(08:09):
the NFL has now evolved too much more of spread
and the r p O s and the zone reads
and the little running backs to catch you know, eight
or ten balls a game sometimes. So how do you
think the process of getting set for the draft for
these teams the kinds of football players that the NFL
is not looking for everywhere? You know, at the skill
(08:30):
position players on offense, the quarterbacks, you know, the pass
rushers or the DBS. How has it changed now that
there's so much kind of college football DNA baked into
the NFL well Bill parcels. You know, famously, you know,
you would always say you could all your draft and
bring in the players the college game produces. And so
you've looked at how this has changed. I mean, yeah,
(08:52):
you still have the Wisconsin's, Illinois, the Iowas. There's some schools,
you know, Stanford does it. Oregon to a certain degree,
they want to line up and kind of run the football.
But you know the days of like the tutor and
fifty on linebacker, I mean that those are done unless
it's a guy who you know has elite athleticism. And
so now it's hey, how does this guy match up
against running backs in the passing game? Does he have
(09:12):
the height to be able to stick with tight ends?
And you look at this now, I mean the tight
ends aren't you know, big stiff guys that are blockers.
You you have that guy usually on your roster. That's
more of your physical, you know, inline blocking tight end.
But a lot of these tight ends they're six four
or six five six six, former basketball players. They have
great athleticism, they're doing an unbelievable job at high point
(09:33):
in the football And so you used to be able
to kind of get away as being a shorter linebacker,
but now teams will find a way to isolate you
in coverage, and if you're under six one and don't
have that length, it's a really tough order to cover.
You know that, Kelsey's the Kiddles, guys like that who
are going to test you and stretch you down the
middle of the field. And you know, I love Nakobe
(09:54):
Dean and he's very instinctive. He can do a lot
of different things. But I just worry about guys that, like,
if you're hovering right around six ft, then you get
that six six tight end. I know what I would
Elegansalis and Gates and these guys like ium six three,
and I would have some anxiety. I'm not trying to
get into the high point with them and get dunked
on down the field. I can't imagine if you're like
five eleven six fts maybe six one to be in
(10:15):
that same situation. So it's can you do that obviously
fitting the run and being able to be that guy's key,
but can you match up with these guys in space?
Because they've turned it into such a matchup game. Yeah,
it is fascinating, and you know, there are some guys
that we want to ask you about as well. To
this point, there are some specific prospects that I know
and you you know you touched on those wide receivers
that you've gotten certainly an up close and personal look
(10:38):
at the play their college football in Columbus, but right
down the road, Cincinnati is gonna put a bunch of
guys in the NFL. I know you called a couple
of air games as well this year. So Bobby Carpenter,
long time Ohio State linebacker, NFL linebacker, and one of
the sports radio voices in Morning Drive at ninety seven
point one The Fan in Columbus, we're gonna come back
and continue our discussion with him on tape head draft season,
(11:03):
Bobo Shoes and Greg Cosell. Back here on taped's draft season,
joined by Ohio State legend, NFL linebacker and Morning Drive
hosts in Columbus on ninety seven point one The Fan,
Bobby Carpenter and Greg we were just talking about how
there is this evolution of football right from college to
the pros, but also now college football DNA in the
pros and how it changes the world of some of
(11:25):
the positions we traditionally associated with a certain body type, right,
and that has definitely changed, no question. And Boby, you
were talking about those smaller linebackers you mentioned to Kobe Dean.
There was that concern last year with Nick Bolton coming
out of Missouri who ended up playing a lot for
the Chiefs in their sub defenses. But there's a player
I want to ask you about that. I'm very curious
(11:47):
what you think. You said. You did a couple of
Cincinnati games, and I'm sure you're familiar with the player anyway,
and that's dary and Beavers because he's six for two
forty pounds, and I think the sort of the initial
reaction is, well, he doesn't fit today's NFL because he's
certainly not a sudden explosive athlete. He's not that guy.
What's your sense of him as he as he tries to,
(12:09):
you know, transition and project to the NFL. Well, and
he's one of these guys who transferred in from yukon
the fifth year grad transfers. He's a talented guy and
maybe not the most gifted athlete in the world, you know,
but it's amazing that we sit here and we look
at all these you know, these numbers and stats and
watch guys run and those things that matter, and they're applicable,
(12:29):
but there is still the element you gotta go out
there and play football. And there's a number of guys
who I would play with, who you know, their instincts
and their understanding of the game which supersede athleticism and
other guys and watching Beavers, you know, all the football
he has played, it pays off and you can see
him out there and you know, maybe he doesn't necessarily
have that raw athleticism to make up for some of
(12:50):
those mistakes, but he very rarely puts himself, you know,
in compromising positions, and then you always kind of find
them around the football. And I know he's been coached
incredibly well by look trickle of what they're doing down
there in Cincinnati. Yeah, it's funny you say that because
I watched his tape and you know the point that
I made, just because I take notes on all these guys.
As you probably know, the point I made was that
(13:10):
it doesn't appear that he'll projected transition well, but you
really have to watch a lot of him to get
a feel and a complete picture of his game. And
I actually think he's a pretty intriguing prospect. He's he's
I think he's a little more athletic than some people
might give him credit for. Yeah, and like that's the thing.
So you see all that, and there's obviously deficiencies, but
(13:32):
you know, very few people are built as a perfect player.
A lot of it is, hey, you have these efficiencies,
how can you hide them? And you do? You know
what your weaknesses are and have that level of self awareness,
and you know, it's really tough for a guy like
that because if you draft him and he doesn't get
it done, you're like, well, we shouldn't take him. He
wasn't good enough athlete to play here. But then if
you don't, and then you watch the play somewhere else
(13:54):
and you watch them like, well, the guy doesn't really
have any of the attributes are a lot of them
that were looking for, but he seems to go out
there and get it done. I think Beaver's may possess
it was kind of raw intangibles. All right, Let's get
to a couple of the the Ohio State guys and
also the Cincinnati guys. Specifically those two wide receivers you
know you mentioned Garrett Wilson and Crystal Lave. They're different
kinds of players obviously, right, Like Garrett Wilson thought of
(14:16):
more as to take the top off the defense, explosive
guy Alave, maybe a little bit more of the polished
route runner, pro receiver who does everything really well. Um,
I've seen I'm a Jets guy. I have seen in
some of these mock drafts people think that the Jets
might jump on Garrett Wilson with the fourth pick in
the draft, that he he could be that highly thought of.
(14:37):
Do you think that these two players Bobby are at
both worthy of maybe being in the top ten or
or could they be that productive in the pros? Well,
the thing is there's probably not gonna be a lot
of quarterbacks to go high, so you have to take
somebody somewhere. Gary Wilson is a great player. He does
a great job contested ball catcher. He can get good separation.
(14:57):
He adjusted really well in the air. It's going to
be a guy who's really a big time player for
the la very polished route runner, very smooth operating his routes.
He looks like they're effortless, So it wouldn't surprise me
if both of those guys go pretty high. I realized me,
I can't really sit here and embrace the receiver in
(15:18):
the top five unless it's like I played with Calvin Johnson.
That dudes like a different animal. But you know, I mean,
you have to take somebody and if you need a receiver.
I mean, I think those guys checked the box. That
it seems kind of high, you know, for Garrett, But
it wouldn't shock me to see a guy go up there.
It's interesting to say that because I've done a lot
of you. I've actually looked at his tape in each
(15:39):
of the last three years because I kept thinking he
was gonna come out, so I kept watching his tape
and he obviously kept coming back. He strikes me, Bobby,
and I'm curious your opinion is more of a compliment,
Like I think a love is an outside receiver who
needs room and space. Like I don't think when it's
third and nine, he doesn't strike me as the guy
who's gonna make those tough catches in traffic, you know,
(16:00):
I don't. I don't think there's really that physical dimension
to his game. I think like you said he's a
very smooth operator who could work really well. Like you know,
we're not doing mock drafts here, but I think to myself,
if he went to Tennessee, where they've got an alpha
dog like a J. Brown, that would really be a
good fit for him. But I don't think he's quite
the alpha dog the way that Wilson could be. Your
(16:21):
Personality wise, yeah, Chris a little more quiet and laid back.
He's very competitive, but you know he'll get after it,
but he's not that demonstrative personality obviously. Well, I think
he will do really well on West Coast offenses when
you're talking vertical routes or you can use stem and
use speed, you know the seven, eight nine, the slants,
some stops, maybe a little bit of comeback or something
(16:42):
like that that I think will obviously be pretty good
for him. But I think he's in an elite like
one big guy. If you have a really strong physical
possession guy like you mentioned, that's who I think he
plays well against. But I don't know if he's a
guy like you said, they'll be able to run through
double coverage, be able to run through all those presses
and be a guy who can dominate even if you're
trying to take him away. There's a few more Buckeyes
(17:05):
I think maybe in the later rounds that we should
keep our eyes on. You got a couple of tackles
and Petite Frere at Mumford or you know, Jeremy Rutgert
at tight end. Like which, Guys, If I'm watching the
draft and I see my team go after a Buckeye
or two, should I be most excited about? Obviously the
two wide receivers, the headline getters. But but obviously there
(17:27):
will be some other old House state players taken in
this draft. There will be I think Rutgert's the guy
who's going to be underdrafted just because he's been hurt
then had a chance to look at him. He's a
really good athlete, he's a really good route runner, and
he developed as a blocker in Ohio State. And so
someone's gonna be really happy when they draft him because
he's gonna fall down the board and all of a
sudden you're gonna realize, like, hey, we got ourselves a
(17:47):
starting tight end way lower than what we probably would
have anticipated. Interesting. Yeah, no, I agree with you to
note I made on Ruckert's had. I think that he's
he's really talented as a route runner and as a receiver,
just wasn't really used that way at Ohio State. But
I think he's I couldn't agree more about me. I
think he's the kind of guy you could see him
in the NFL all of a sudden, be a guy
(18:08):
that catches sevents. Is a tight end, absolutely, and that's
you're gonna see that because you know it Ohio State
they haven't really utilized the tight end position now much.
I thought they would utilize him a little more, but
he was a big time five star guy. He looks
really good running routes and he can catch the ball well.
They just didn't really throw it to him much. And
those are the guys that are usually very undervalued when
it starts coming to you know, combine prep and everything
(18:30):
like that. And I know you spent some time not
only watching Cincinnati this year as the rest of us
still be even calling a few of their games. How
about just a couple of quick thumbnails of Desmond Ritter
Sauce Gardner. I mean that the guys that we know
are going to be taking off that Cincinnati team, you know.
I think there's obviously he checks a lot of the boxes.
He's got some deep ball accuracy stuff that he's continued
(18:50):
to work on that is going to continue to obviously
be developed and need to be developed, you know, the
next level. I don't know if I've have seen an
elite quarterback in this draft that's ready to go. So
he's probably got as good a shot as anyone. And
then I've talked to a number of scouts in front
of his exact that this one said that they thought
Sauce Gardner was the best player in this draft regardless
of position. So I mean, the guy is sildly competitive,
(19:12):
He's got all the physical attributes you're looking for, so
I I don't think you could go wrong if you
need a quarter The guy Bobby I really like from
their defense is Brian Cook, and I don't know what
he'll go in the draft, but I think he's you know,
he's not to me, he's not being talked about enough.
And I think the tape speaks for itself absolutely. And
you know, they do a good job coaching those guys
up front. Man, they're big, physical dudes and they really
(19:33):
developed them at a high level. They've got a way
great strength program, which was about half the battle when
you start talking about developing those big guys inside. Bobby,
thanks so much for doing this. We appreciate it. My pleasure. John.
You guys have a good one. Thanks Bobby. Yeah, a
lot of fun talking football with Bobby Carpenter. Of course
former House State linebacker, NFL linebacker as well. But if
you're in the Columbus area one FM the Fan, he's
(19:55):
on the Morning Juice from six to nine am every day,
so you get a lot of great draft talk with
him heading up towards the draft, and we'll have some
reaction to some of the things that he said, not
only about changes in the NFL, but even some of
the guys that he brought up or Greg co Sell
sees those guys as prospects as well. When we come
back on this edition of Taped's Draft Season, Bobby shows
(20:18):
and Greg co Sell as we continue with this edition
of Taped's Draft Season. Fun talking to Bobby Carpenter, Greg
informational as well to get a little perspective of a
guy who is right in the middle of Columbus doing
morning radio every day. Obviously a former player as well
calling games. You know, he's watching the tape and he
(20:39):
provided some insight I thought, especially with those two receivers
that everyone knows are going to go in the first round.
But you know, we talked about Chris o lave on
a previous episode, and he certainly has strengths. He is
a very polished professional. Throw the ball near him and
he's gonna make a catch NFL wide receiver, but there
(21:00):
are some that think he might be the first wide
receiver off the board, and I know that was something
that you didn't think was probably going to happen when
we talked about him earlier this season. What about what
Bobby Carpenter had to say, Yeah, and I was it's
not a matter being happy to hear that, because I
hope all these kids get drafted and make it. Obviously, sure,
but I spent a lot of time evaluating a lobby.
(21:21):
As I said, I looked at him in each of
the last three years. There's no question he's a smooth,
fluid route technician. I mean, that's what he is. There's
just a smoothness to the way in which he moves.
It looks effortless. But to me, he's an outside the
numbers receiver, and I think that and we discussed this
a couple of weeks ago. I don't think there's really
(21:42):
a physical dimension to his game, and I think that
the ability to catch through contact, which is essential in
the NFL if you're going to be that alpha dog receiver,
which clearly if someone dressed him in the top twelve
or fifteen, they would think he'd be that guy. And
you know, one thing I thought was really fascinating and
studying a lovey this year, Bob Heally was targeted seventeen
(22:05):
times on third down and I thought that was really
interesting because that I think that says something. Uh, it
says about what Ohio State feels about him. We don't
have to interpret that. They're telling you that he's not
really a third down receiver for them. So when you
compare him and Wilson and what you think Garrett Wilson
(22:26):
can then become as an NFL player, right like a
guy that might be able to run the complete route tree,
take the top off of a defense. Just maybe a
combination of use of the entire field and more explosive
that you you probably think and I think most would
agree that that he is the more well thought of
prospect and you should expect him to come off the
(22:48):
board earlier than a love It. Yeah, and Wilson reminded
me of a Stefine Diggs. You know. I think that
Wilson is a guy that he's a very good route
runner as well. I think he has much better run
after catchability than a love I think he's a much
better catcher of contested balls, and that's become pretty critical
(23:08):
in the NFL these days with the increase in man coverage.
As we discussed earlier this week, there's a lot more
man coverage in the NFL. So I think that that's
really an important trait that Wilson has that a Lava
doesn't have as much. Plus, I think Wilson can line
up both outside and in the slot. He has extensive
(23:29):
experience lining up in both areas where I would see
a Lava And maybe they'll be teams that are more
expansive in their thought and want to do other things,
But I would see a Lava based on his tape
as a player that is predominantly an outside receiver who
works best where there's more space, not more bodies. What
about what uh Bobby Carpenter had to say about Desmond
(23:51):
Ritter As we switched to maybe taking a look at
some of the Cincinnati guys that we know are going
to get drafted high. Sauce Gardner, I mean he might
get drafted in the top three or four in this draft, right,
And Bobby Carpenter so that he thought, uh, after talking
to a couple of scouts, that there's you know that
maybe Sauce Gardner when he tweeted earlier this week, I'm
the best player in this draft may not have been wrong.
(24:12):
That might be the way that some NFL teams you know,
view him as well. But but Ritter, you know, there's
a guy that I'm sure there could be some polarizing
opinions on a quarterback, and I think there will be
because there's defined strengths but also clear concerns. When you
watch him, you know he does have that little bit
of an elongated delivery. There's a lot of motion in
his delivery and that can negatively impact ball placement. He
(24:35):
does have a tendency to drop his arm angle just
a little bit, and that caused some easy throws to sell.
So he missed too many layups at UH at Cincinnati,
and you can't miss the layups in the NFL and
I think too, there's a sense that he's just a
little deliberate and everything he does. Now every quarterback works
(24:55):
with a private coach now and all these things will
be worked on, so perhaps they're better. You can certainly
speed up a quarterback with his drop and his set.
The delivery is a little more difficult to know if
that can truly be cleaned up. It can be because
it's a mechanic. You can clean up some mechanics, but
(25:15):
you just don't know. But I like Ridder. I think
because of the offense in which he played, because he's
a four year starter, and because of the fact that
at his core, despite quality athleticism, at his core, he's
a pocket quarterback. He does not look to leave the pocket.
He looks to execute the offense and to be a
bald distributor. And I think that's the starting point in
(25:36):
Ridders game. And I think he would work really effectively
Bob in an offense that had a meaningful run game foundation,
and the play action pass game would then be an
important part of it. And something we didn't get a
chance to talk to a Bobby about, but I definitely
want to bring up with you because we've talked at
least around the edges of this a bit with regards
to this quarterback class. But maybe what we've seen over
(25:59):
the last three or four weeks tells us what the
NFL thinks of this quarterback class. When teams like Cleveland
and like Denver are going out and basically mortgaging their
entire future to bring in a quarterback, they have to
pay right now, so they don't even get the benefit
of the quote unquote rookie quarterback contract. And then even
teams like Washington, Indie like they're going out and they're
(26:22):
paying for older quarterbacks as well. Maybe that's just a
window inside what's going on in these draft rooms and
these discussions where I'm sure they're sitting around that conference
table going, look, there's nobody to draft, like. We may
be able to get a picket, We might be able
to get you know, Malik Willis and those guys come in.
They might be good, they might be a project, there
(26:44):
might be a high ceiling. But this is not a
quarterback class like maybe there was last year or a
couple of years ago where you know Donald and Josh
Allen and you know Baker, all those guys were coming
out where the teams that needed quarterbacks that had high
draft choices were content to just you is that high
draft choice on a quarterback. Now, now you've got teams
(27:07):
that will be drafting in the middle of the first
round where these quarterbacks are probably still going to be available.
And even in that scenario, there I think saying as
an organization, look, we have to go out and pull
the trigger on a big name right now, even if
we have to pay him, because we just don't believe
that special player at quarterback is in this draft. But
it's funny you say that, because then you think about
(27:29):
teams that theoretically need a quarterback. So let's say you're
Carolina at six, and right now they're starting quarterback is
Sam Donald, who you are very familiar with. Now, up
to this point his career, Sam Donald has not shown
that you could line him up and he can be
a consistent player snap after snap, week after week. He's
not shown that. He's shown flashes here and there, just
(27:50):
as he did with the Jets. He got off to
that pretty good start early last season with the Carolina
Panthers and then it kind of fell apart a little bit,
and that's been what his career has been so here,
you're sitting there at six, you think you have a
better team through some things you've done. Then you have
a year ago. So do you say to yourself, Okay, Bob, um,
(28:10):
we're gonna go with Sam Donald again, knowing full well
that he's got a pretty defined track record right now
through four years in the NFL that's not likely to change.
So all of a sudden, you say to yourself, Okay,
we're not certain about Malik Willis Kenny Pickett. We know
what we like, we know what we view as potential
(28:31):
flaws in their games, but we also know that we're
not getting there with Sam Donald. So I think that's
what happens with a draft is teams end up draft
in quarterbacks because if they don't really have one they're
comfortable with, they know they can't really be a good
team with that one. Yep. And if there is one
position that teams will absolutely reach for an overdraft more
(28:55):
than any other, it is quarterback. Right now, there are
some rumors in New York, at least with the Jets
sitting at for as a team that you know definitively
does not need and is not in the market for
a quarterback, they just took a quarterback second last season
that would they trade down. Might there be some teams
jumping up to try and get a quarterback in the
(29:18):
top five that maybe they don't think will be available
when they're picking later in the first round. Are there
any of these quarterbacks you think as we get closer
to the draft, whether it's Ritter, whether it's pick It,
whether it's the the the incredibly high, seemingly ceiling of
Malik willis even if you're gonna have to go through
the growing pains of a player that isn't quite as
(29:40):
polished but you think could be a really special player
when you get him to his ultimate level. Are any
of these guys you think going to start conversations among
teams where teams would start to say, that's the guy
to reach for, that's the guy we may trade up for. Yes,
because if if you think that guy is better than
what you have, absolutely, and and the Jets are in
(30:02):
a very interesting pet because when you're when you have
your quarterback, and we know that Zack Wilson obviously had
more downs than ups a year ago, but the talent
level certainly exists in terms of his live, loose arm,
his light athletic feet. I mean, there's no question Zack
Wilson is a talented player who, for all intents and purposes,
(30:24):
should become a quality quarterback and maybe even a really
good quarterback. So when you have that guy, there can
be some other areas of your team, Bob, that maybe
are not quite as good because your quarterback can compensate
and tamouflage some of those potential flaws or weaknesses. So
I'm not saying that Robert salin staff are are consciously saying, well,
(30:46):
let's be weak at this position because you know, we
have a quarterback. But you can't be great at every position.
It just doesn't work that way. So if you have
a quarterback, he can certainly compensate for potential flaws. And
the Jets probably feel that, hey, if we can get
two or three the extra pix for the fourth pick
in the draft, let's go get those two or three
(31:07):
extra picks instead of drafting a guy at four who
may be an immediate starter, which is what certainly if
you drafted for that's what you would expect. But they
just may feel let's go get some more bodies, let's
get some more players, because you know what is Zack
Wilson improves and progress is the way we expect. Then
we got that guy that can make everything good on
(31:28):
any given Sunday. Yep. Well, it's fascinating and we will continue.
As we get closer and closer to the draft, I
think start to see and have it crystallize a bit
what teams are thinking about these quarterbacks, because it does
seem as you get closer to the draft that the
rumors become a little bit closer to fact than way
at the beginning of the process, where like Thibodeau was
(31:50):
supposed to be the no brainer number one pick six
months ago or a year ago, and now I don't
think anybody in any mock draft is mocking him as
the first player taken. Right, So this does change. It
is an evolutionary process, and the quarterbacks are all way
is in the middle of all of that. And we
obviously want to thank Bobby Carpenter, Ohio state linebacker, NFL linebacker,
(32:10):
morning radio host in Columbus for joining us again. Hit
us up on social media, let us know about the
players and positions that you want to hear about, and
we're gonna talk about a lot of those prospects as
we continue moving you towards the draft. Bobo schus Um,
the Great COSL. We will be back on Tuesday, when
another addition drops of tape Ed's draft season
Tape Eds. It's a production of I Heart Media and
the NFL. Welcome to another edition of Tapeds Draft Season.
Bobo Shues and longtime radio voice of the New York Jets,
also a college football broadcaster for ESPN and Greg co
Sal for forty plus years, has been breaking down the
(00:23):
All twenty two at NFL films, not only prepping NFL
matchups game by game throughout the season, but also in
the quote unquote off season. What are we talking about?
There is no such thing as an off season now
in the world of football, but in the off season,
Greg breaks down the All twenty two of the college
football prospects, hence tape heeds Draft season. As we get
you set for the NFL Draft, we've been bringing on
(00:45):
different guests. We've had some coaches, had some scouts. Now
we're going to go to a guy that has lived
this life as a big time college football player, a
first round draft choice, played in the NFL, and now
you can hear him every day on the morning Juice
six to nine am ninety seven point one. The fan
in Columbo US and that of course is Ohio State
(01:05):
legend Bobby Carpenter joining us here with Greg Costell and
Bobo Shoes and Bobby thanks for doing this. We appreciate it.
My playlure guys. I mean, the NFL never stops if
they found a way and now fully monopolize it into
a twelve month a year season. And you know, the
free agency I think proved that despite the fact that
March Madness and everything else was going on, you get it.
You get the announcement of Tom Brady returning, or huge
(01:27):
quarterback trades and movement. I mean, that's gonna usurp any
other news for the day, yep. And we will definitely
get to those storylines with you because you're right there.
The way that the quarterback market has flipped around in
this offseason might even tell you something about what the
NFL thinks of the quarterback market in this draft. But
can you just kind of take us through what these
(01:48):
kids are going through? Because you lived this right you
played at one of, if not arguably the biggest college
football program there is. You were then obviously a guy
that had to go through the whole draft process. Maybe
how much it's changed compared to what these guys are
going through. But right now, I I'm a college football
player getting ready to go be a pro pick in
the first round. What are these kids going through? Well,
(02:08):
I mean a little bit depends on kind of where
you're at, whether you're kind of a day one, day two,
day three guy, And there's a little bit of blending
that goes on obviously between those. But you know, I
was talking to you know, Krystal Lava and Garrett Wilson
and High States practice on Tuesday and those guys like
now it's a visit season. Like it starts off you
have your Bowl games, you're you're All Star games, and
you have the combine, you know, and then you're you're
(02:30):
trying to get healthy for your Pro day and then
you start having workouts and now it's like, hey, we're
what teams are bringing you in? Who who wants to
sit down and get in front of you and maybe
they take a little medical look at you while you're there,
but you'll really bring you into kind of two year
through a facility. They almost treat you a little bit
like a recruiting visit, even though it's it's not your
choice at all. It's a player, but those guys, you
(02:51):
schedule those up and then there are some teams that
they want to come in and depending on you know
where you're at and where you think you're also gonna
get drafted, you know, going through the process of hey,
there's uh there's some teams that want to work out,
and those workouts are done a lot of times by
position coaches, coordinators, maybe a scout, you know, someone like that,
and those, uh, those can get a little rough because
(03:12):
it depending on how many people are there and what
they tell you. I always joke one of my uh
her mind was with Dallas and Paul Pasta one who
worked me out for about an hour and fifteen minutes
by myself, but I was completely gassed at the end.
And the last thing you want to do as a
player is say no, boss, like I can't handle it.
But there's no one out there to save you, no
one out there to stop it, and they're just gonna
(03:33):
drive you into the ground. Well, you know, it's funny.
Obviously you you're very familiar obviously as a player, and
obviously being in Columbus with Ohio State, you know, there's
always a lot of talk about the nature of that
offense and how it translates to the NFL with not
only the quarterback and they'll have one coming out next
year obviously, but also I would think with the receivers
(03:53):
and just what they do in the past game, how
do you think that that factor is in Because obviously
they have two receivers coming out this year Uman Crystal
Lava and Art Wilson, who are I would assume from
everything you hear, and I've obviously done both guys in detail,
they're going to be first round picks, probably Wilson before
a love. How do you sort of look at what
(04:15):
they do offensively and think about in terms of what's
demanded in the NFL. Well, that's our guys to do.
You know, a lot of different stuff and they've moved,
you know, especially Wilson, you know inside and outside. They
asked him to block these guys by special teams and
so it's not just line up and we see now
that's how homogenized college football is. It's all right, everybody
(04:37):
gets in three or four wide receivers. It's kind of
fixed formations for the most part. You know, some of
the stuff they do, the motioning, the flipping guys inside
and outside, and then the convertible routes based upon coverages,
and that's something you see a lot in the NFL
that you know, if you're in a single high or
too high man versus zone, whether you push you out
all the way through, whether you set it down, and
(04:57):
so understanding those concepts and how they all work, how
that's gonna work obviously with the confines of your offense
and you're passing game. But really the biggest attribute for
the receiver's coming in is there is their skill on
their releases and their route running and talking to it
with Sean Jefferson, who has the wide receiver coach for
the Cards, about this and he's like, all your guys
are so good, and it's like, you know, we've got
(05:19):
heartline here he goes man that he prepares the heck
out of them. Like they do a great job with
their routes. You know, they drive, they drive to their point,
they don't short step when they don't need to. They
do a great job with their stems moving guys off
the spot. Like all of these little things that people
think playing receivers just running fast and catching the ball.
Like there's a lot of guys that can run fast,
there's a lot of guys that can catch a football,
(05:41):
But it's the ability to create that separation against the
really talented defensive backs, and especially at the next level,
where those guys are gonna be able to read and
feel your body movement and they're gonna basically know your
route sometimes before you even know it. But Brian's job
of teaching those guys has been absolutely phenomenal and he's
only going to continue to do this as he's been
(06:01):
here developing these guys. And as good as those two
harm me Jackson Smith and JAGB Marvin Harrison Jr. You
watch them and you're like, Wow, they're not that far
off and they've got a whole another season to go.
So it's pretty exciting to kind of watch those guys
developed and watch him understand your NFL route concepts, but
also the technical skill and expertise that they possessed of
(06:21):
their position. You know, one thing, I'm just to jump
in on what you said that you hit on something
that I think is so so important, which may be
a lot of fans don't realize, because you have to
get particularly an off coverage corner, Bobby. You have to
get him off his spot. You have to make him
turn his body one way or the other. You've got
to make him move his feet and I don't think
people think about it in that way, because that's the
(06:44):
way it's taught. You've got to get him to move
because if he's just standing there and and you're not,
you're not breaking down the cushion or you're not forcing
him to move, then he's just playing you very easily.
So you've got to get him off his spot well.
And that's so that's so Brian like, and that's why
they teach these guys. Understand the coverage you're looking at
in you said, if you're playing off, you're playing press
(07:05):
is too high as a single high, but knowing like
where's your leverage? Where is where is your point of protection?
Because you're gonna have help somewhere, And so that's why
you're kind of funnel the receiver potentially to that guy,
unless it's just a pure, you know, pure man. But
a lot of times it's like, hey, what are you
trying to eliminate? Do I work you outside, do I
press you, I get you to open your hips? Do
you take that that step to protect where you know
(07:28):
that you can't let me get And then all of
a sudden, I've created all this space and separation. And
so that's what he teaches these guys. You watch him,
and right down the belly, they understand exactly where they've
got to get to to have either open their hips
step open them inside or outside. And then all of
a sudden, now I've got you right where I want you,
and I can begin to work away from your leverage
and try to create that space. You know, Bob, you
(07:48):
talk about the corners and the wide receivers. You know,
we spend a lot of time on Tuesday talking just
about how football has changed from college to the pros
from the days you played. I mean, you were that
you know, kind of prototypical big ten linebacker back in
those days, that's what you wanted. You wanted to go
tackle that prototypical big ten running back. And you know,
(08:09):
the NFL has now evolved too much more of spread
and the r p O s and the zone reads
and the little running backs to catch you know, eight
or ten balls a game sometimes. So how do you
think the process of getting set for the draft for
these teams the kinds of football players that the NFL
is not looking for everywhere? You know, at the skill
(08:30):
position players on offense, the quarterbacks, you know, the pass
rushers or the DBS. How has it changed now that
there's so much kind of college football DNA baked into
the NFL well Bill parcels. You know, famously, you know,
you would always say you could all your draft and
bring in the players the college game produces. And so
you've looked at how this has changed. I mean, yeah,
(08:52):
you still have the Wisconsin's, Illinois, the Iowas. There's some schools,
you know, Stanford does it. Oregon to a certain degree,
they want to line up and kind of run the football.
But you know the days of like the tutor and
fifty on linebacker, I mean that those are done unless
it's a guy who you know has elite athleticism. And
so now it's hey, how does this guy match up
against running backs in the passing game? Does he have
(09:12):
the height to be able to stick with tight ends?
And you look at this now, I mean the tight
ends aren't you know, big stiff guys that are blockers.
You you have that guy usually on your roster. That's
more of your physical, you know, inline blocking tight end.
But a lot of these tight ends they're six four
or six five six six, former basketball players. They have
great athleticism, they're doing an unbelievable job at high point
(09:33):
in the football And so you used to be able
to kind of get away as being a shorter linebacker,
but now teams will find a way to isolate you
in coverage, and if you're under six one and don't
have that length, it's a really tough order to cover.
You know that, Kelsey's the Kiddles, guys like that who
are going to test you and stretch you down the
middle of the field. And you know, I love Nakobe
(09:54):
Dean and he's very instinctive. He can do a lot
of different things. But I just worry about guys that, like,
if you're hovering right around six ft, then you get
that six six tight end. I know what I would
Elegansalis and Gates and these guys like ium six three,
and I would have some anxiety. I'm not trying to
get into the high point with them and get dunked
on down the field. I can't imagine if you're like
five eleven six fts maybe six one to be in
(10:15):
that same situation. So it's can you do that obviously
fitting the run and being able to be that guy's key,
but can you match up with these guys in space?
Because they've turned it into such a matchup game. Yeah,
it is fascinating, and you know, there are some guys
that we want to ask you about as well. To
this point, there are some specific prospects that I know
and you you know you touched on those wide receivers
that you've gotten certainly an up close and personal look
(10:38):
at the play their college football in Columbus, but right
down the road, Cincinnati is gonna put a bunch of
guys in the NFL. I know you called a couple
of air games as well this year. So Bobby Carpenter,
long time Ohio State linebacker, NFL linebacker, and one of
the sports radio voices in Morning Drive at ninety seven
point one The Fan in Columbus, we're gonna come back
and continue our discussion with him on tape head draft season,
(11:03):
Bobo Shoes and Greg Cosell. Back here on taped's draft season,
joined by Ohio State legend, NFL linebacker and Morning Drive
hosts in Columbus on ninety seven point one The Fan,
Bobby Carpenter and Greg we were just talking about how
there is this evolution of football right from college to
the pros, but also now college football DNA in the
pros and how it changes the world of some of
(11:25):
the positions we traditionally associated with a certain body type, right,
and that has definitely changed, no question. And Boby, you
were talking about those smaller linebackers you mentioned to Kobe Dean.
There was that concern last year with Nick Bolton coming
out of Missouri who ended up playing a lot for
the Chiefs in their sub defenses. But there's a player
I want to ask you about that. I'm very curious
(11:47):
what you think. You said. You did a couple of
Cincinnati games, and I'm sure you're familiar with the player anyway,
and that's dary and Beavers because he's six for two
forty pounds, and I think the sort of the initial
reaction is, well, he doesn't fit today's NFL because he's
certainly not a sudden explosive athlete. He's not that guy.
What's your sense of him as he as he tries to,
(12:09):
you know, transition and project to the NFL. Well, and
he's one of these guys who transferred in from yukon
the fifth year grad transfers. He's a talented guy and
maybe not the most gifted athlete in the world, you know,
but it's amazing that we sit here and we look
at all these you know, these numbers and stats and
watch guys run and those things that matter, and they're applicable,
(12:29):
but there is still the element you gotta go out
there and play football. And there's a number of guys
who I would play with, who you know, their instincts
and their understanding of the game which supersede athleticism and
other guys and watching Beavers, you know, all the football
he has played, it pays off and you can see
him out there and you know, maybe he doesn't necessarily
have that raw athleticism to make up for some of
(12:50):
those mistakes, but he very rarely puts himself, you know,
in compromising positions, and then you always kind of find
them around the football. And I know he's been coached
incredibly well by look trickle of what they're doing down
there in Cincinnati. Yeah, it's funny you say that because
I watched his tape and you know the point that
I made, just because I take notes on all these guys.
As you probably know, the point I made was that
(13:10):
it doesn't appear that he'll projected transition well, but you
really have to watch a lot of him to get
a feel and a complete picture of his game. And
I actually think he's a pretty intriguing prospect. He's he's
I think he's a little more athletic than some people
might give him credit for. Yeah, and like that's the thing.
So you see all that, and there's obviously deficiencies, but
(13:32):
you know, very few people are built as a perfect player.
A lot of it is, hey, you have these efficiencies,
how can you hide them? And you do? You know
what your weaknesses are and have that level of self awareness,
and you know, it's really tough for a guy like
that because if you draft him and he doesn't get
it done, you're like, well, we shouldn't take him. He
wasn't good enough athlete to play here. But then if
you don't, and then you watch the play somewhere else
(13:54):
and you watch them like, well, the guy doesn't really
have any of the attributes are a lot of them
that were looking for, but he seems to go out
there and get it done. I think Beaver's may possess
it was kind of raw intangibles. All right, Let's get
to a couple of the the Ohio State guys and
also the Cincinnati guys. Specifically those two wide receivers you
know you mentioned Garrett Wilson and Crystal Lave. They're different
kinds of players obviously, right, Like Garrett Wilson thought of
(14:16):
more as to take the top off the defense, explosive
guy Alave, maybe a little bit more of the polished
route runner, pro receiver who does everything really well. Um,
I've seen I'm a Jets guy. I have seen in
some of these mock drafts people think that the Jets
might jump on Garrett Wilson with the fourth pick in
the draft, that he he could be that highly thought of.
(14:37):
Do you think that these two players Bobby are at
both worthy of maybe being in the top ten or
or could they be that productive in the pros? Well,
the thing is there's probably not gonna be a lot
of quarterbacks to go high, so you have to take
somebody somewhere. Gary Wilson is a great player. He does
a great job contested ball catcher. He can get good separation.
(14:57):
He adjusted really well in the air. It's going to
be a guy who's really a big time player for
the la very polished route runner, very smooth operating his routes.
He looks like they're effortless, So it wouldn't surprise me
if both of those guys go pretty high. I realized me,
I can't really sit here and embrace the receiver in
(15:18):
the top five unless it's like I played with Calvin Johnson.
That dudes like a different animal. But you know, I mean,
you have to take somebody and if you need a receiver.
I mean, I think those guys checked the box. That
it seems kind of high, you know, for Garrett, But
it wouldn't shock me to see a guy go up there.
It's interesting to say that because I've done a lot
of you. I've actually looked at his tape in each
(15:39):
of the last three years because I kept thinking he
was gonna come out, so I kept watching his tape
and he obviously kept coming back. He strikes me, Bobby,
and I'm curious your opinion is more of a compliment,
Like I think a love is an outside receiver who
needs room and space. Like I don't think when it's
third and nine, he doesn't strike me as the guy
who's gonna make those tough catches in traffic, you know,
(16:00):
I don't. I don't think there's really that physical dimension
to his game. I think like you said he's a
very smooth operator who could work really well. Like you know,
we're not doing mock drafts here, but I think to myself,
if he went to Tennessee, where they've got an alpha
dog like a J. Brown, that would really be a
good fit for him. But I don't think he's quite
the alpha dog the way that Wilson could be. Your
(16:21):
Personality wise, yeah, Chris a little more quiet and laid back.
He's very competitive, but you know he'll get after it,
but he's not that demonstrative personality obviously. Well, I think
he will do really well on West Coast offenses when
you're talking vertical routes or you can use stem and
use speed, you know the seven, eight nine, the slants,
some stops, maybe a little bit of comeback or something
(16:42):
like that that I think will obviously be pretty good
for him. But I think he's in an elite like
one big guy. If you have a really strong physical
possession guy like you mentioned, that's who I think he
plays well against. But I don't know if he's a
guy like you said, they'll be able to run through
double coverage, be able to run through all those presses
and be a guy who can dominate even if you're
trying to take him away. There's a few more Buckeyes
(17:05):
I think maybe in the later rounds that we should
keep our eyes on. You got a couple of tackles
and Petite Frere at Mumford or you know, Jeremy Rutgert
at tight end. Like which, Guys, If I'm watching the
draft and I see my team go after a Buckeye
or two, should I be most excited about? Obviously the
two wide receivers, the headline getters. But but obviously there
(17:27):
will be some other old House state players taken in
this draft. There will be I think Rutgert's the guy
who's going to be underdrafted just because he's been hurt
then had a chance to look at him. He's a
really good athlete, he's a really good route runner, and
he developed as a blocker in Ohio State. And so
someone's gonna be really happy when they draft him because
he's gonna fall down the board and all of a
sudden you're gonna realize, like, hey, we got ourselves a
(17:47):
starting tight end way lower than what we probably would
have anticipated. Interesting. Yeah, no, I agree with you to
note I made on Ruckert's had. I think that he's
he's really talented as a route runner and as a receiver,
just wasn't really used that way at Ohio State. But
I think he's I couldn't agree more about me. I
think he's the kind of guy you could see him
in the NFL all of a sudden, be a guy
(18:08):
that catches sevents. Is a tight end, absolutely, and that's
you're gonna see that because you know it Ohio State
they haven't really utilized the tight end position now much.
I thought they would utilize him a little more, but
he was a big time five star guy. He looks
really good running routes and he can catch the ball well.
They just didn't really throw it to him much. And
those are the guys that are usually very undervalued when
it starts coming to you know, combine prep and everything
(18:30):
like that. And I know you spent some time not
only watching Cincinnati this year as the rest of us
still be even calling a few of their games. How
about just a couple of quick thumbnails of Desmond Ritter
Sauce Gardner. I mean that the guys that we know
are going to be taking off that Cincinnati team, you know.
I think there's obviously he checks a lot of the boxes.
He's got some deep ball accuracy stuff that he's continued
(18:50):
to work on that is going to continue to obviously
be developed and need to be developed, you know, the
next level. I don't know if I've have seen an
elite quarterback in this draft that's ready to go. So
he's probably got as good a shot as anyone. And
then I've talked to a number of scouts in front
of his exact that this one said that they thought
Sauce Gardner was the best player in this draft regardless
of position. So I mean, the guy is sildly competitive,
(19:12):
He's got all the physical attributes you're looking for, so
I I don't think you could go wrong if you
need a quarter The guy Bobby I really like from
their defense is Brian Cook, and I don't know what
he'll go in the draft, but I think he's you know,
he's not to me, he's not being talked about enough.
And I think the tape speaks for itself absolutely. And
you know, they do a good job coaching those guys
up front. Man, they're big, physical dudes and they really
(19:33):
developed them at a high level. They've got a way
great strength program, which was about half the battle when
you start talking about developing those big guys inside. Bobby,
thanks so much for doing this. We appreciate it. My pleasure. John.
You guys have a good one. Thanks Bobby. Yeah, a
lot of fun talking football with Bobby Carpenter. Of course
former House State linebacker, NFL linebacker as well. But if
you're in the Columbus area one FM the Fan, he's
(19:55):
on the Morning Juice from six to nine am every day,
so you get a lot of great draft talk with
him heading up towards the draft, and we'll have some
reaction to some of the things that he said, not
only about changes in the NFL, but even some of
the guys that he brought up or Greg co Sell
sees those guys as prospects as well. When we come
back on this edition of Taped's Draft Season, Bobby shows
(20:18):
and Greg co Sell as we continue with this edition
of Taped's Draft Season. Fun talking to Bobby Carpenter, Greg
informational as well to get a little perspective of a
guy who is right in the middle of Columbus doing
morning radio every day. Obviously a former player as well
calling games. You know, he's watching the tape and he
(20:39):
provided some insight I thought, especially with those two receivers
that everyone knows are going to go in the first round.
But you know, we talked about Chris o lave on
a previous episode, and he certainly has strengths. He is
a very polished professional. Throw the ball near him and
he's gonna make a catch NFL wide receiver, but there
(21:00):
are some that think he might be the first wide
receiver off the board, and I know that was something
that you didn't think was probably going to happen when
we talked about him earlier this season. What about what
Bobby Carpenter had to say, Yeah, and I was it's
not a matter being happy to hear that, because I
hope all these kids get drafted and make it. Obviously, sure,
but I spent a lot of time evaluating a lobby.
(21:21):
As I said, I looked at him in each of
the last three years. There's no question he's a smooth,
fluid route technician. I mean, that's what he is. There's
just a smoothness to the way in which he moves.
It looks effortless. But to me, he's an outside the
numbers receiver, and I think that and we discussed this
a couple of weeks ago. I don't think there's really
(21:42):
a physical dimension to his game, and I think that
the ability to catch through contact, which is essential in
the NFL if you're going to be that alpha dog receiver,
which clearly if someone dressed him in the top twelve
or fifteen, they would think he'd be that guy. And
you know, one thing I thought was really fascinating and
studying a lovey this year, Bob Heally was targeted seventeen
(22:05):
times on third down and I thought that was really
interesting because that I think that says something. Uh, it
says about what Ohio State feels about him. We don't
have to interpret that. They're telling you that he's not
really a third down receiver for them. So when you
compare him and Wilson and what you think Garrett Wilson
(22:26):
can then become as an NFL player, right like a
guy that might be able to run the complete route tree,
take the top off of a defense. Just maybe a
combination of use of the entire field and more explosive
that you you probably think and I think most would
agree that that he is the more well thought of
prospect and you should expect him to come off the
(22:48):
board earlier than a love It. Yeah, and Wilson reminded
me of a Stefine Diggs. You know. I think that
Wilson is a guy that he's a very good route
runner as well. I think he has much better run
after catchability than a love I think he's a much
better catcher of contested balls, and that's become pretty critical
(23:08):
in the NFL these days with the increase in man coverage.
As we discussed earlier this week, there's a lot more
man coverage in the NFL. So I think that that's
really an important trait that Wilson has that a Lava
doesn't have as much. Plus, I think Wilson can line
up both outside and in the slot. He has extensive
(23:29):
experience lining up in both areas where I would see
a Lava And maybe they'll be teams that are more
expansive in their thought and want to do other things,
But I would see a Lava based on his tape
as a player that is predominantly an outside receiver who
works best where there's more space, not more bodies. What
about what uh Bobby Carpenter had to say about Desmond
(23:51):
Ritter As we switched to maybe taking a look at
some of the Cincinnati guys that we know are going
to get drafted high. Sauce Gardner, I mean he might
get drafted in the top three or four in this draft, right,
And Bobby Carpenter so that he thought, uh, after talking
to a couple of scouts, that there's you know that
maybe Sauce Gardner when he tweeted earlier this week, I'm
the best player in this draft may not have been wrong.
(24:12):
That might be the way that some NFL teams you know,
view him as well. But but Ritter, you know, there's
a guy that I'm sure there could be some polarizing
opinions on a quarterback, and I think there will be
because there's defined strengths but also clear concerns. When you
watch him, you know he does have that little bit
of an elongated delivery. There's a lot of motion in
his delivery and that can negatively impact ball placement. He
(24:35):
does have a tendency to drop his arm angle just
a little bit, and that caused some easy throws to sell.
So he missed too many layups at UH at Cincinnati,
and you can't miss the layups in the NFL and
I think too, there's a sense that he's just a
little deliberate and everything he does. Now every quarterback works
(24:55):
with a private coach now and all these things will
be worked on, so perhaps they're better. You can certainly
speed up a quarterback with his drop and his set.
The delivery is a little more difficult to know if
that can truly be cleaned up. It can be because
it's a mechanic. You can clean up some mechanics, but
(25:15):
you just don't know. But I like Ridder. I think
because of the offense in which he played, because he's
a four year starter, and because of the fact that
at his core, despite quality athleticism, at his core, he's
a pocket quarterback. He does not look to leave the pocket.
He looks to execute the offense and to be a
bald distributor. And I think that's the starting point in
(25:36):
Ridders game. And I think he would work really effectively
Bob in an offense that had a meaningful run game foundation,
and the play action pass game would then be an
important part of it. And something we didn't get a
chance to talk to a Bobby about, but I definitely
want to bring up with you because we've talked at
least around the edges of this a bit with regards
to this quarterback class. But maybe what we've seen over
(25:59):
the last three or four weeks tells us what the
NFL thinks of this quarterback class. When teams like Cleveland
and like Denver are going out and basically mortgaging their
entire future to bring in a quarterback, they have to
pay right now, so they don't even get the benefit
of the quote unquote rookie quarterback contract. And then even
teams like Washington, Indie like they're going out and they're
(26:22):
paying for older quarterbacks as well. Maybe that's just a
window inside what's going on in these draft rooms and
these discussions where I'm sure they're sitting around that conference
table going, look, there's nobody to draft, like. We may
be able to get a picket, We might be able
to get you know, Malik Willis and those guys come in.
They might be good, they might be a project, there
(26:44):
might be a high ceiling. But this is not a
quarterback class like maybe there was last year or a
couple of years ago where you know Donald and Josh
Allen and you know Baker, all those guys were coming
out where the teams that needed quarterbacks that had high
draft choices were content to just you is that high
draft choice on a quarterback. Now, now you've got teams
(27:07):
that will be drafting in the middle of the first
round where these quarterbacks are probably still going to be available.
And even in that scenario, there I think saying as
an organization, look, we have to go out and pull
the trigger on a big name right now, even if
we have to pay him, because we just don't believe
that special player at quarterback is in this draft. But
it's funny you say that, because then you think about
(27:29):
teams that theoretically need a quarterback. So let's say you're
Carolina at six, and right now they're starting quarterback is
Sam Donald, who you are very familiar with. Now, up
to this point his career, Sam Donald has not shown
that you could line him up and he can be
a consistent player snap after snap, week after week. He's
not shown that. He's shown flashes here and there, just
(27:50):
as he did with the Jets. He got off to
that pretty good start early last season with the Carolina
Panthers and then it kind of fell apart a little bit,
and that's been what his career has been so here,
you're sitting there at six, you think you have a
better team through some things you've done. Then you have
a year ago. So do you say to yourself, Okay, Bob, um,
(28:10):
we're gonna go with Sam Donald again, knowing full well
that he's got a pretty defined track record right now
through four years in the NFL that's not likely to change.
So all of a sudden, you say to yourself, Okay,
we're not certain about Malik Willis Kenny Pickett. We know
what we like, we know what we view as potential
(28:31):
flaws in their games, but we also know that we're
not getting there with Sam Donald. So I think that's
what happens with a draft is teams end up draft
in quarterbacks because if they don't really have one they're
comfortable with, they know they can't really be a good
team with that one. Yep. And if there is one
position that teams will absolutely reach for an overdraft more
(28:55):
than any other, it is quarterback. Right now, there are
some rumors in New York, at least with the Jets
sitting at for as a team that you know definitively
does not need and is not in the market for
a quarterback, they just took a quarterback second last season
that would they trade down. Might there be some teams
jumping up to try and get a quarterback in the
(29:18):
top five that maybe they don't think will be available
when they're picking later in the first round. Are there
any of these quarterbacks you think as we get closer
to the draft, whether it's Ritter, whether it's pick It,
whether it's the the the incredibly high, seemingly ceiling of
Malik willis even if you're gonna have to go through
the growing pains of a player that isn't quite as
(29:40):
polished but you think could be a really special player
when you get him to his ultimate level. Are any
of these guys you think going to start conversations among
teams where teams would start to say, that's the guy
to reach for, that's the guy we may trade up for. Yes,
because if if you think that guy is better than
what you have, absolutely, and and the Jets are in
(30:02):
a very interesting pet because when you're when you have
your quarterback, and we know that Zack Wilson obviously had
more downs than ups a year ago, but the talent
level certainly exists in terms of his live, loose arm,
his light athletic feet. I mean, there's no question Zack
Wilson is a talented player who, for all intents and purposes,
(30:24):
should become a quality quarterback and maybe even a really
good quarterback. So when you have that guy, there can
be some other areas of your team, Bob, that maybe
are not quite as good because your quarterback can compensate
and tamouflage some of those potential flaws or weaknesses. So
I'm not saying that Robert salin staff are are consciously saying, well,
(30:46):
let's be weak at this position because you know, we
have a quarterback. But you can't be great at every position.
It just doesn't work that way. So if you have
a quarterback, he can certainly compensate for potential flaws. And
the Jets probably feel that, hey, if we can get
two or three the extra pix for the fourth pick
in the draft, let's go get those two or three
(31:07):
extra picks instead of drafting a guy at four who
may be an immediate starter, which is what certainly if
you drafted for that's what you would expect. But they
just may feel let's go get some more bodies, let's
get some more players, because you know what is Zack
Wilson improves and progress is the way we expect. Then
we got that guy that can make everything good on
(31:28):
any given Sunday. Yep. Well, it's fascinating and we will continue.
As we get closer and closer to the draft, I
think start to see and have it crystallize a bit
what teams are thinking about these quarterbacks, because it does
seem as you get closer to the draft that the
rumors become a little bit closer to fact than way
at the beginning of the process, where like Thibodeau was
(31:50):
supposed to be the no brainer number one pick six
months ago or a year ago, and now I don't
think anybody in any mock draft is mocking him as
the first player taken. Right, So this does change. It
is an evolutionary process, and the quarterbacks are all way
is in the middle of all of that. And we
obviously want to thank Bobby Carpenter, Ohio state linebacker, NFL linebacker,
(32:10):
morning radio host in Columbus for joining us again. Hit
us up on social media, let us know about the
players and positions that you want to hear about, and
we're gonna talk about a lot of those prospects as
we continue moving you towards the draft. Bobo schus Um,
the Great COSL. We will be back on Tuesday, when
another addition drops of tape Ed's draft season
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