April 14, 2022 • 33 mins
In this episode of the Tape Heads: Draft Season podcast, hosts Bob Wischusen and Greg Cosell welcome Draft Expert Mike Detillier to the show to discuss how the Draft and player evaluation has changed over the last 30 years. Mike tells us where teams are right now in their Draft Boards and how information can change a team's priorities. There are very few secrets these days in evaluations, but Mike explains how a head coach that needs to win now can change a draft course for a franchise. We turn to the best prospects in the SEC that will be the difference makers in the NFL. Mike thinks Derek Stingley was one of the most talented players ever at LSU, but his health questions slides him down the Draft Board. We wrap up discussing the NFL coaching players will be getting and how that can smooth the rough edges of a prospect and help them fit into a franchise system.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Tape Eds. It's a production of I Heart Media and
the NFL. Welcome to a brand new edition of Tapeds
Draft Season, one step closer to the NFL Draft. On
this podcast again we try and dive behind the xs
and os, and we don't do the mock drafts as
much as we try and take you into the actual
(00:24):
process of how teams break the players down, put together
their board, and make you look hopefully smarter than your
buddies at the bar on draft night. Bobo shusan longtime
radio voice of the Jets, also college football for ESPN,
Greg Costell, who's been breaking down the tape the old
twenty two for NFL films for the better part of
four decades. And Mike Detilia, who joins us now from
(00:45):
New Orleans. You can hear him not only on w
w L in New Orleans but also on STS and
LS you broadcasts thirty six years of putting together on
NFL draft reports. So this is his time of year
as well, and we maybe we could start for the listeners,
uh the show off with a contest. Greg of Ken
when you hear the you of us speak, figure out
which two guys live in Jersey and which guy doesn't
(01:10):
I think, yeah, I figured that one out real quick.
It is, Mike, thanks so much for doing this. We
really appreciate. You know. Let's look wide angle lens just
at the start, because we want to take a dive
into some of these L s U prospects that I
know you see literally every snap of football they play.
You live in SEC country. The SEC dominates the draft.
(01:31):
We expect it might dominate the first round of this draft.
But you also, thirty six years putting together a draft report,
you look at the whole country and the whole draft,
so you check every box for us going back to
when you first started to put together a draft report
until now, what are the biggest evolutionary changes you've seen
in the game where now the draft is just different
(01:52):
than it was with the ones that we grew up watching.
I think one how it's covered it was much earlier
when I first started, and I do believe eve coach
involvement now is much more than ever before. They'll always say, oh,
we all together, it's a kumbayad deal, but it's really not.
(02:15):
I think that they got a lot of coaches in
this NFL that, especially those early picks they have tremendous say.
I think in the past that wasn't the case. I
think the GM had all the same so to speak,
because it was an earlier draft and coaches didn't get
involved as much. Now you got head coaches, assistant coaches,
(02:37):
everybody getting involved. The medical part of a player being
injured late and you say, man, he's gonna drop dramatically,
that's not necessarily the case anymore. We start with Jeffrey
Simmons a few years back, he dropped a little bit,
but not a ton. I think you'll see it a
little bit this year with Jamison Williams, where he'll drop
(02:59):
a little bit, but nothing like it would have happened
thirty years ago. So I think those are the two
elements in play. And even back then, quarterback was priority.
Today it's paramount. And I do believe that every draft
has its own little road that it goes down. This
(03:22):
draft class, the road is linemen. It's offensive defensive lineman,
edge rushers, and you're gonna see a ton of them.
Half of the first and second round are gonna be
offensive defensive lineman. And for quarterbacks that's not the greatest thing,
but it is what it is. But quarterbacks Trump everything.
(03:43):
I work with three of them every week, and the
one thing they absolutely right about is that Mike, no
matter what, quarterbacks are paramount and they're gonna jump and
you're gonna see in this draft class. Probably in January,
people were maybe one or two and round one. You'll
probably have four and round one if I could playoffs.
A couple things Mike said. Number one, and I think
(04:05):
I said this a number of weeks ago, that I
always believe that there's in a sense to draft. There's
a quarterback draft and the rest of the draft. And
I think that you know, two months ago, everybody said
there's no first round quarterback, and as Mike just said,
that's not gonna happen. There's going to be first round
quarterbacks and it wouldn't surprise I think any of us
if they were three or four in the first round.
The other point that Mike said that I think plays
(04:27):
into the evolution of the game that you and I
have been talking about, Bob is coaches being more involved.
The game now is much more scheme based, and Mike,
I think you would agree than it was years and
years ago. So now the reason coaches get involved so
much is because they're thinking about scheme adaptability because there's
(04:49):
so many things they do defensively with scheme that did
not exist thirty years ago, twenty five years ago. Now
that is the foundation, particularly on the defensive side of
the ball. So there's so much that coaches want to
make sure where they see. They might see a player
who maybe he doesn't have high level traits to be
a top twenty or thirty pick, but that coach sees him, Hey,
(05:12):
he fits that role in my defense. And even if
he only plays twenty five snaps the game, you know
what those are, twenty five really important snaps. It's role
playing sort of speaking, where we see it much more
today than ever before. And this sort of if you
put it in parentheses, fast break basketball on a football field,
(05:35):
that's what you're seeing today. It's really fast break basketball,
but on a football field. And who can help you
either score points or stop scoring. And even if it's
a role player, I think it's paramount you get those guys.
And that's why the draft process has changed. A five
(05:55):
ft seven, five ft eight guy thirty years ago, he
would have probably scratched off that list. I'll never forget
Richie Pettiball and telling me, Man, I went to see
a little guy in Texas. I don't know if he
can play a not I said, will you went see?
Said Darryl Green. As small as he is. I hope
when he tears open that shirt he's got the red
(06:15):
S under it. So two weeks into camp, I said, hey, Richie,
does Darrel have the red S? He said, yeah, a
big one. So I mean you can see there are
those type players still and but even more abundant today
than ever before in the NFL. You know, it's funny
you mentioned that because it actually leads me to a
(06:38):
conversation I had a few years ago with an NFL
personnel guy when leading up to the draft. He said,
you know, people make fun of the mock drafts, but
as you get closer and closer to the draft, I
find those mock drafts start to get a little more accurate,
especially the ones that are, you know, the most publicized,
because you have to figure the guy that has been
doing it the longest, like you did it for thirty
(06:59):
six years, knows the most people. You're gonna have a
conversation right with a guy as you get closer to
the draft that might give you some information. Greg and
I were talking in the last episode about how long,
you know, far along the teams are now and formulating
their boards. I mean, they're way far along, right, we
only got a couple of weeks to go before the
actual draft. How much when we see these mock drafts
(07:22):
kind of changing around these last couple of weeks, do
you think that is from guys like you talking to
folks in the league and maybe getting a more accurate
picture on what they actually think of players, as opposed
to just what maybe a mock draft guy is getting
from watching the tape alone. I think if you have
a good relationship with that guy, he's gonna kind of
(07:43):
tell you where he's going. It may not be exactly,
but he leads you down that road. Others say, well,
you know, I'll play a little bit of poka with you, Okay, Yeah,
but you just told me exactly who you were gonna pick. Okay,
and then two weeks from now, when you made this election,
you made that pick. I think today there are very
few see grits in the NFL. Now. I think trades
(08:07):
sometimes will change an opinion. But as far as secrets
are secret, players are guys kind of hitting guys You
don't see that. Every once in a while you'll see
a couple of picks and around one you say, man,
what the world was that about? And I always say,
you know what, that's about a head coach getting involved.
(08:29):
I fell in love with that guy when he came
here for the interview. I really want him on my team.
I don't care what's on that board. I want him
because I'm the guy that's eventually gonna pay the price
if it don't work out. And that's where you will
see a little bit of a difference as far as
how a team has it graded and how a coach
(08:49):
looks at things. You know, he wants to win now.
He doesn't have a tomorrow. Very few of those guys do.
And so if he thinks that player can win for
him now, he's gonna jump that board. He's gonna absolutely
jump it. And we've heard some great stories throughout the
years about coaches pleading in a room to trade up
(09:11):
to get a certain guy you didn't even have to
trade up for, but he's itchy for that player. That
does occur, no matter what they tell you, you you know publicly, privately,
a lot of that does go on. Yeah, the question
I have Mike, because what do you think. You know,
we always hear the platitudes with the draft, you know,
best player available, all that stuff, But when all said
(09:32):
and done, with very few exceptions, wouldn't you say that
teams draft from need more than anything. Obviously, they're not
gonna draft a guy they have ranked seventy five. You
know they're not gonna draft that guy fifth. But we're
all said and done. They gotta fill spots on their roster.
They got to get better in certain positions or they
can't compete, so they're drafting need. Yeah, and the thing
(09:53):
about drafting best player available you can have yourself loaded
on one position and real shard on another. So I've
never believed that best player on the board theory. It
might be the best player on the board and the
biggest neat position. You know, it's one of those types
of things. But but I've never believed that. And I
do think for many coaches they don't have an opportunity
(10:20):
to watch those guys during the fall. You may get
a glimpse of it because okay, you're prepared for a game.
That's where the major colleges have an advantage. I've seen
an Alabama I've seen an Ohio State, I've seen a
Texas A and m R. L. Shoe. I've seen the
USC game and I've spotted a guy and it's it's
(10:43):
crazy how that comes into play too. You hear a
coach say, man, I'll watched the game and not all
of it, but I saw this guy from this particular school,
and I really liked it, went back and did the
little study research on it. So I think that also
is an advantage to the major college player that every
(11:04):
games on TV, but in feature games, I do think
it's a huge advantage for him. Well, Mike de Tillier
in New Orleans on radio down there obviously on the
SATs and l s U broadcast, but also for the
better part of four decades put together his own draft report.
We're gonna talk some players next. We're gonna focus on
some of the best in the SEC. Of course, some
(11:25):
of the best of the SEC, like right there in
Baton Rouge. So we will talk a few guys that
are prospects. Now what will be the difference makers in
the NFL in a few years. We continue with Mike
de Tillier next on taped's draft season. Right back on
taped's draft season, babel schoosing Gregg Cotell and Mike de
Tillier in New Orleans, an expert on l s U
SEC football and of course put together his own NFL
(11:47):
draft guide for the better part of thirty six years.
And and Mike, let's get to and Greg, maybe you
jump in with some of the L s U guys
did intrigue you the most? Because that's right in Mike's backyard.
And there are some guys from LSU that are gonna
be on the board taken early. We know that. Yeah, Well,
I think the guy we have to start hard with,
of course, is Derek Stingley. And and I watched his tape.
I think I watched him in all his games almost Mike,
(12:09):
and you've obviously seen that as well. Give give us
your sense of Derek Stingley as a prospect, and what
do you think he can be in the NFL in
twenty nineteen. Derek Stingley, And I've said this and written it.
I think he's one of the three best athlete football
players I've ever seen. At Ela shut he was the
(12:31):
best freshman cornerback I ever saw it l S. He
wasn't good, he was dominant and they didn't test him much.
As a freshman. He looked like he was gonna be
a phenom, and then injuries started to hit, and I
think it did affect his play. Also, you gotta look
at it, he was in a defensive scheme as a
(12:53):
salthamore that I just shook my head about. I didn't
know what Bopolini was doing at La Shu. My question
mark about Derek and I go back a ways because
I remember watching his grandfather when he was with the
Patriots as a receiver. His dad was a really good player.
You know, he has the genetics, he's got the will.
(13:15):
But availability comes into mind for me, and that's why
some teams are gonna question it. You could make an
argument if he were healthy, he's the best prospect in
this draft, if you were healthy for three seasons, But
that's a if. Because he hasn't been, I think it
slides him down the draft. I think still he will
(13:37):
be a top ten or eleven pick, But I think
Sauce Gardener is gonna be the first cornerback off the board.
They're less question marks and availability matters in the NFL,
especially when you picking someone that high in the draft.
He's an immensely gifted athlete with ball skills you can't teach.
(13:58):
He plays the ball like a receiver, but missing all
that time. Are you willing to pull that trigger that early?
And I think that's why Gardener has overseated him as
the top cornerback in his draft class and new to
do with talent, It's about is he gonna last a
seventeen game season when he had difficulty making it through twelve.
(14:22):
I would say two things. Number one, the ball production.
You're a percent right. His ball skills are as good
as any corner that I can recall coming out in
recent years. And you know, I'm sure there's guys going
back that I can't remember, but his ball skills are top,
top notch. The one thing if you're going to nitpick,
and and this is what I do, he had a
(14:43):
tendency and this can be cleaned up. And obviously in
college he could easily compensate for it, Mike, but he
had a tendency in press man. His first reaction was
to get back on his heels, and I think that
needs to be cleaned up because, like I said, he
could camouflage that in college where he's not playing against
NFL players well all obviously playing against a number of
(15:04):
them who will be in the NFL. But I think
that's one thing that they will work with him on
because that's that was his first reaction very often when
he was in playing mirror match press man, as he
just get back on his heels. You know, it was
funny he got beat in the Alabama game two years
ago and exactly what you said, that's how Davonte Smith
(15:25):
beat hi Ya remember I remember the play, and so
you get that he needs a little bit of technical work.
But man, when you look at here, all the skills
he's got athletically, isn't this the type guy if you
drew up a blueprint of a corner, that's what That's
(15:46):
what he would look like, long lean, fast ball scale
at the highest level. But it all goes back to health.
Willie be there for the majority of your season, our
seventeen games? And it's a legit question in because the
technical stuff you can clean up. I think a quarterback,
(16:08):
defensive back coach can clean that up. But the health part,
I think is in question here. And I think this
is why it has split him a little bit on
what everybody looks at as their top ten or eleven players,
more on the back end of ten or eleven than
on the front end. We did defensive tackles the other day,
and I know someone that kind of an under the
(16:29):
radar guy that called Gregg's attention was Neil Farrell. What
about you, man? I love Neil Farrell. He's a big
space eater in the middle. But the one thing that
I really like about him one he's been well coached. Uh.
The one thing with coach O He's had eleven first
round picks on defensive lineman, so he's been well schooled.
(16:50):
Pete Jenkins, he's worked with him in the off season.
I know Papa Pete eighty years old and so man,
he's still coaching. But it's his ability to steal a
quarterbacks launch pad. It's not that he's a great pass rusher,
but he pushes that inside pocket and that quarterback could
(17:10):
not take that one two step and walk into the throat.
Phararell's right there. So he gets you on the move
east and west. You gotta start moving. And I thought
he had a tremendous senior season at l s U.
Where he wasn't a really good player, he was an
outstanding player or the Tigers and run support. But I
(17:34):
think the big difference with him from his freshman season
until today has been his ability to push that inside
pocket and basically blow up a quarterback's launch pad. I
think he's a middle to late third round pick in
a very deep defensive tackle class. See, I couldn't agree more.
(17:56):
I actually think that when you watch his tape, you
see a guy that with more coaching and experience. And
obviously Pete Jenkins and I knew him. He was in
Philly for a number of years and he's been doing
this forever. I think he actually really showed improvement as
an interior pass rusher. Mike and I think that down
the road he's going to be a three down player
(18:16):
in the NFL, not simply a run defender. Yeah. And
the other guy to to watch is Cardell Flock because
when you see what he's done at l s U,
he's played outside corner, he's played nicol, he's played dime safety.
The Sites have a player similar to him and P J.
Williams who can do the exact same three positions. Man,
(18:40):
That to me really is a big plus for Flat
who didn't get the ink say of a Christian Fulton
or Derek Stingley. But his versatility. Now he's real thin,
so he's gonna have to physically get stronger. But his
versatility I think puts him in the middle rounds and
(19:03):
I he's gonna be a really good NFL player. But
I agree with you on Neil and that you can
see in his hand his ability to use his hands
to get off a bot cleaner is much much better.
The sad story with this is the moan Clark because
he had an unbelievable senior season at l s U.
(19:23):
Then they like three or four guys every year that's
a medical and they find out about the disc problem
and he'll miss in the NFL. But man, that guy,
if you chiseled out a linebacker, that's what he should
look like. Because he's six three, he's two d thirty
five pounds. He can run like a receiver. Somebody's gonna
(19:44):
get one hell of a player late in the draft
because I do think for the Moan that drops him.
And the one thing with L s U when you
look at the talent L s U, Alabama, Texas A
and M Georgia, all those guys were all recruited by
the same team, So either you get them or you
(20:05):
gotta play against them. That's what makes the SEC special.
That man, if you got some big time talent, you
better sign him because eventually, you bet if you got
a way to have to play against them, that's a
great point. And you know, real quick you mentioned kind
of the quote unquote other guys give us a little
thirty thousand foot view of the SEC and the other
(20:26):
numbers always said earlier in the week, just draft the
Georgia defense and you're probably fine, right, you can just
coach those guys for ten years. So how good that
group is and who are the other SEC players that
if your team is in need of a big time talent,
you should have your eyes open for a draft day.
What's unusual. L s U is only gonna have one
first round pick and that's Stingley. Alabama is only gonna
(20:47):
have to Evan Neil Jamison Williams. That's it. And don't
know drafts. Those two teams would have had six to
seven totally. Georgia may have five to six on one team.
And this was early in the summer, right after Hurricane Ida.
Pass coach Jenkins called me up because he sort of
(21:09):
mentors the defensive lineman at George and called to see
how it was doing. And he was like, hey, Mike,
you got extra money, you better better on Georgia. I
ain't never seen anything like what these guys got first
and second team. So you're probably gonna have four to
six first round picks from Georgia. I think the SEC
is gonna look a little bit different years down the
(21:32):
road because of what's happening in College Station with Jimbo Fisher.
I take that impact of what's going on there, and
I think it's the biggest fear for every SEC coach
is that guy out there. And the way it's set
up today is gonna land. And we saw it this year,
(21:54):
laying a ton of top talent. I think you'll probably
see twelve to thirteen SEC players going around one. I mean,
it's dominant each and every year. And I'll continue and
Mike one more before we let you go. Then, how
about the quarterbacks? You know, where where do you think
the pickets? Where do you think the Malik Willis's are
going to end up in this draft? Because there are
(22:15):
question marks around every quarterback. But as we know, teams
are desperate for quarterbacks. They see the ceiling like Malik
Willis obviously has. It seems like a tremendously high ceiling,
especially the way the quarterback position has evolved in today's NFL.
Where do you think those guys go? I think both
pick it and Willis going to top ten. I think
(22:38):
that connection Carolina and can't pick it. I think that's there.
Atlanta is looking for a young quarterback Malik Willis. It's
not ready for prime time yet. And you can see
he's a bit of a bolter as a quarterback. If
his initial reads not there, he takes all. It's like
(23:00):
right across from me, uh, I have a pasture with
wild horse. You can spook one of them and they
take off running. You look at Willis, his initial read
isn't there, and he'll take off running with the football.
He's gonna have to become a better passer from the pocket,
because that's what this game is about. But I look
(23:20):
at Picket going certainly to Carolina, will Is going to Atlanta.
Then I think the entry becomes where the third guy goes.
Couldn't be Pittsburgh with a Desmond river. And then I
think some team late in round one is gonna make
a small maneuver to get Matt Corral. I think four
(23:44):
going round one, and Matt to me, I think he
really played well this year, but he reminded me a
little bit of a boxer. He found out he could
take a punch, take a hit down field, and he
kept on running and eventually that takes a toll on you,
and you saw physically he wasn't the same guy from
(24:07):
mid season on, but he made great strides under Lane Kiffin.
A lot of connections there to the National Football League.
Ritter becomes the wild cord because I think some team
or Detroit would pick Matt Corral late. But where does
Ritter go anywhere from eighteen to twenty six and round
(24:31):
one and despite all that talk early, you're gonna see
those four guys going round one. Couldn't agree more awesome stuff. Mike,
thanks so much for the time. We appreciate it. Thanks,
thank you. That is Mike Attilia who was a fountain
of SEC football knowledge and of course the draft as
a whole. Baba Shusan Greg co Sell will come right
back and have some thoughts about what Mike had to
(24:53):
say about the upcoming draft when we come back on
Tapeds Draft season Bible Schus and Greg Cosell Right back
here on Tapeds draft season, Mike Tillier was tremendous. Gregg
a fountain of not a lot of interesting things that
he said. You and I have talked a lot, specifically
about the prospects that he mentioned, but I thought, you know,
there were some conceptual football draft ideas that he brought
(25:14):
up that we're interesting and maybe some things that we
haven't touched on yet. The role of coaches, right and
how there was still in many organizations the delineation between
the coaching staff and the front office, the general manager
and the scouting department, and the idea most of the
time is that the GM and the scouts we will
draft the players were the ones doing all the homework
(25:36):
on them. You tell us generally what you're looking for,
but we are the guys that have really done the
deep dive. We have done the homework. We will draft
the team. You coach the team. And now over the years,
much more coach involvement in this process, according to Mike,
I think you would agree. I certainly agree. I think
the coaches are probably maybe putting their stamp on the
(25:59):
draft room more than they did in years past in
many organizations, and I think depend on the organization, Bob,
that schism is getting bigger because, as we discussed with Mike,
I think coaches they think about their scheme and players
fitting within their scheme. Now, look, everybody likes great traits,
and that's not a profound statement. Of course, everybody wants big, fast,
(26:22):
you know, the usual stuff, whatever the positional trades demand.
Everybody wants top of the line. But there's not a
lot of guys like that. So what all said and done,
what do coaches look for? Coaches want players that can
execute within the context of their scheme and their system
at a high level. And that isn't always the guy
(26:43):
that has a specific set of traits that everybody says, wow,
those are great traits, because there are not thirty or
forty transcendent players in every draft that can do anything.
So I think that that that skism, depending on the team,
can be big. The other thing that really stood out
that and you mentioned it as well, was the value
(27:05):
of coaching. And it's funny while Mike was talking about that,
I thought to myself, one of the things I always
think about when I'm watching tape is what can be
coached and what can't be coached. And I've talked with
coaches about that through the years, because it's always easy
to say that, hey, this guy can't do that. Well,
(27:25):
is it something he can't do because he's just not
physically capable of doing it. You know, you and I
are not gonna run four or four or forties, Bob,
no matter what we do. You know that that's just life.
But then there's a lot of other things where I've
talked to coaches and I'll say, hey, I watched this
guy and I noticed this, and I'll coach will tell me, oh,
I can fix that in ten minutes. So I try
(27:46):
to think when I watched tape of what can be
coached and what can't be coached. Because college football and
the NFL is like this to a certain extent as well.
But we know in college football that during the week
they only have twenty hours of coaching with the players,
and so much is scheme based, not individual based. There's
much more individual coaching that can go on in the NFL,
(28:07):
and you always have to think about what can be
coached to improve a player. And also the coaches, I mean,
like they've got an ego, but like as you said,
like that, they'll see a guy that's rough around the edges,
but if they see a player that has tremendous talent,
coaches are always gonna believe, well, if I get my
hands on, I'll get that out of him. His college
(28:27):
coaches they couldn't get it out of him, but I'm
an NFL guy, I'll do it. And you know that
probably influences some of those decisions, or at least the
coaches wanting to campaign for a guy as well. I
would think no. And you know, it's funny. It all
goes back, and I don't know. You're probably familiar with
the story when Bill Walsh was with the Niners and
they ended up drafting Charles Halley. There's a story I
(28:49):
assume it's true. I've read it in multiple places where
they were looking for a pass rusher and they actually
put on the tape of Charles Halley and I think
he was James Madison as I recalled. Is that that's right,
And they watched two or three plays, and I guess
on those two or three plays, Bill Walsh saw something
that made him say, that's my guy. We're drafting Charles
(29:12):
Halley because he showed something that Bill Walsh, obviously one
of the greatest coaches of all time, believed he could
get him to do that at a very consistent level
because he saw it. Now, you know, I'm not that smart, Bob.
I can't watch three plays and make that call. But
I think there's a sense and you hit it right
on the head that if coaches see traits executed on tape,
(29:35):
even if a player does it not with the consistency,
would like even if it's just a flash, they always
believe that they can take that flash and develop it
to the point where that becomes ingrained in in his
game as opposed to just a once in a while thing.
And the other guy that Mike Petilia touched on, a
guy like Daman Clark right that you know gets hurt
(29:57):
and Jamison Williams, same type of scenario, different injury, but
now the same question. Absolutely no doubt about it. Way
higher in the draft had an injury not occurred. But
in today's world of medical science, we've seen guys get
hurt in college, get rehabbed in the NFL, and become
(30:17):
every bit as good, if not better a player then
we thought they may have been. And these guys sometimes
become draft steals. Is that now looked upon differently in
NFL draft rooms, where now you might be looking to
like rob the draft blind with a guy later in
the draft because he slips because of injury, rather than
crossing a guy off the way you would twenty years
(30:39):
thirty years ago because of injury. Yeah, and that's a
great point. I think that becomes team and organization specific
because of where you stand. I really like to Moan
Clark's tape and and I mean, while I haven't necesarily
made a list of the top linebackers, he would probably
be in my top five or six if I if
I made that list, And my guess is he'd be
a top fifty, top sixty pick for sure. That's not
(31:01):
going to happen now, But it depends on the team.
If you feel you have a strong team, and you think,
to Moan Clark, assuming health after this surgery and the injury,
that he's going to be as he was, and you
think he's going to be a high level linebacker. Maybe
on a given team you can draft him in the
third round and say, hey, you know what, he's going
(31:22):
to be a great player. But there's not a lot
of teams that can do that simply because they need
players that they can play this year. But the other
thing that I wanted to say in relation to the
NFL is I think particularly on defense, Bob, where a
lot of players play in different defenses. Um, whether you
have a base, whether you have and base can be multiple,
(31:43):
sub can be multiple. You might have a different sub
defense on first intent versus third intent might be different people.
So on defense, you could be playing eighteen nineteen players
throughout the course of a game. So the question is
not what players can't do, because not everybody is great.
We know that, and I had to learn that through
the years. I was why I'd be watching tape ten
(32:04):
years ago and saying to myself, Oh, this guy is
not great, And and then guys would play in the
league for ten years and I'd have to totally reassess
how I looked at players because a lot of guys
play on defense. So I think, what with so much
sub defense and so many guys playing, it's what are
his positive traits? What can he do? Not what can
(32:24):
he do? And I think the coaches who think more
in those terms within their schemes, you end up with
better players. And guys will help you more. And we
are down the home stretch now and we're two weeks
away from the NFL Draft. We'll be back next week
as we take one more step towards draft night and
go deeper into some of the prospects and what we
expect to see when the teams start calling names. I
(32:46):
think we've hit just about every position group, and now
the last couple of weeks we'll start to circle back.
We'll start to go back to the quarterbacks, back to
the wide receivers, the pass rushers, the corners, the tackles,
the names we know we're gonna get drafted high, but
also have any of the perceptions of those players shifted
it all as far as teams are concerned, because now
the boards they really start to become finalized. Now the
(33:09):
teams start to hone in on exactly what they expect
to do on draft nights. So a lot to do.
Thanks for listening, Please rate and subscribe and join us.
Next week we come back with more editions of tape
Heed's draft season.
Tape Eds. It's a production of I Heart Media and
the NFL. Welcome to a brand new edition of Tapeds
Draft Season, one step closer to the NFL Draft. On
this podcast again we try and dive behind the xs
and os, and we don't do the mock drafts as
much as we try and take you into the actual
(00:24):
process of how teams break the players down, put together
their board, and make you look hopefully smarter than your
buddies at the bar on draft night. Bobo shusan longtime
radio voice of the Jets, also college football for ESPN,
Greg Costell, who's been breaking down the tape the old
twenty two for NFL films for the better part of
four decades. And Mike Detilia, who joins us now from
(00:45):
New Orleans. You can hear him not only on w
w L in New Orleans but also on STS and
LS you broadcasts thirty six years of putting together on
NFL draft reports. So this is his time of year
as well, and we maybe we could start for the listeners,
uh the show off with a contest. Greg of Ken
when you hear the you of us speak, figure out
which two guys live in Jersey and which guy doesn't
(01:10):
I think, yeah, I figured that one out real quick.
It is, Mike, thanks so much for doing this. We
really appreciate. You know. Let's look wide angle lens just
at the start, because we want to take a dive
into some of these L s U prospects that I
know you see literally every snap of football they play.
You live in SEC country. The SEC dominates the draft.
(01:31):
We expect it might dominate the first round of this draft.
But you also, thirty six years putting together a draft report,
you look at the whole country and the whole draft,
so you check every box for us going back to
when you first started to put together a draft report
until now, what are the biggest evolutionary changes you've seen
in the game where now the draft is just different
(01:52):
than it was with the ones that we grew up watching.
I think one how it's covered it was much earlier
when I first started, and I do believe eve coach
involvement now is much more than ever before. They'll always say, oh,
we all together, it's a kumbayad deal, but it's really not.
(02:15):
I think that they got a lot of coaches in
this NFL that, especially those early picks they have tremendous say.
I think in the past that wasn't the case. I
think the GM had all the same so to speak,
because it was an earlier draft and coaches didn't get
involved as much. Now you got head coaches, assistant coaches,
(02:37):
everybody getting involved. The medical part of a player being
injured late and you say, man, he's gonna drop dramatically,
that's not necessarily the case anymore. We start with Jeffrey
Simmons a few years back, he dropped a little bit,
but not a ton. I think you'll see it a
little bit this year with Jamison Williams, where he'll drop
(02:59):
a little bit, but nothing like it would have happened
thirty years ago. So I think those are the two
elements in play. And even back then, quarterback was priority.
Today it's paramount. And I do believe that every draft
has its own little road that it goes down. This
(03:22):
draft class, the road is linemen. It's offensive defensive lineman,
edge rushers, and you're gonna see a ton of them.
Half of the first and second round are gonna be
offensive defensive lineman. And for quarterbacks that's not the greatest thing,
but it is what it is. But quarterbacks Trump everything.
(03:43):
I work with three of them every week, and the
one thing they absolutely right about is that Mike, no
matter what, quarterbacks are paramount and they're gonna jump and
you're gonna see in this draft class. Probably in January,
people were maybe one or two and round one. You'll
probably have four and round one if I could playoffs.
A couple things Mike said. Number one, and I think
(04:05):
I said this a number of weeks ago, that I
always believe that there's in a sense to draft. There's
a quarterback draft and the rest of the draft. And
I think that you know, two months ago, everybody said
there's no first round quarterback, and as Mike just said,
that's not gonna happen. There's going to be first round
quarterbacks and it wouldn't surprise I think any of us
if they were three or four in the first round.
The other point that Mike said that I think plays
(04:27):
into the evolution of the game that you and I
have been talking about, Bob is coaches being more involved.
The game now is much more scheme based, and Mike,
I think you would agree than it was years and
years ago. So now the reason coaches get involved so
much is because they're thinking about scheme adaptability because there's
(04:49):
so many things they do defensively with scheme that did
not exist thirty years ago, twenty five years ago. Now
that is the foundation, particularly on the defensive side of
the ball. So there's so much that coaches want to
make sure where they see. They might see a player
who maybe he doesn't have high level traits to be
a top twenty or thirty pick, but that coach sees him, Hey,
(05:12):
he fits that role in my defense. And even if
he only plays twenty five snaps the game, you know
what those are, twenty five really important snaps. It's role
playing sort of speaking, where we see it much more
today than ever before. And this sort of if you
put it in parentheses, fast break basketball on a football field,
(05:35):
that's what you're seeing today. It's really fast break basketball,
but on a football field. And who can help you
either score points or stop scoring. And even if it's
a role player, I think it's paramount you get those guys.
And that's why the draft process has changed. A five
(05:55):
ft seven, five ft eight guy thirty years ago, he
would have probably scratched off that list. I'll never forget
Richie Pettiball and telling me, Man, I went to see
a little guy in Texas. I don't know if he
can play a not I said, will you went see?
Said Darryl Green. As small as he is. I hope
when he tears open that shirt he's got the red
(06:15):
S under it. So two weeks into camp, I said, hey, Richie,
does Darrel have the red S? He said, yeah, a
big one. So I mean you can see there are
those type players still and but even more abundant today
than ever before in the NFL. You know, it's funny
you mentioned that because it actually leads me to a
(06:38):
conversation I had a few years ago with an NFL
personnel guy when leading up to the draft. He said,
you know, people make fun of the mock drafts, but
as you get closer and closer to the draft, I
find those mock drafts start to get a little more accurate,
especially the ones that are, you know, the most publicized,
because you have to figure the guy that has been
doing it the longest, like you did it for thirty
(06:59):
six years, knows the most people. You're gonna have a
conversation right with a guy as you get closer to
the draft that might give you some information. Greg and
I were talking in the last episode about how long,
you know, far along the teams are now and formulating
their boards. I mean, they're way far along, right, we
only got a couple of weeks to go before the
actual draft. How much when we see these mock drafts
(07:22):
kind of changing around these last couple of weeks, do
you think that is from guys like you talking to
folks in the league and maybe getting a more accurate
picture on what they actually think of players, as opposed
to just what maybe a mock draft guy is getting
from watching the tape alone. I think if you have
a good relationship with that guy, he's gonna kind of
(07:43):
tell you where he's going. It may not be exactly,
but he leads you down that road. Others say, well,
you know, I'll play a little bit of poka with you, Okay, Yeah,
but you just told me exactly who you were gonna pick. Okay,
and then two weeks from now, when you made this election,
you made that pick. I think today there are very
few see grits in the NFL. Now. I think trades
(08:07):
sometimes will change an opinion. But as far as secrets
are secret, players are guys kind of hitting guys You
don't see that. Every once in a while you'll see
a couple of picks and around one you say, man,
what the world was that about? And I always say,
you know what, that's about a head coach getting involved.
(08:29):
I fell in love with that guy when he came
here for the interview. I really want him on my team.
I don't care what's on that board. I want him
because I'm the guy that's eventually gonna pay the price
if it don't work out. And that's where you will
see a little bit of a difference as far as
how a team has it graded and how a coach
(08:49):
looks at things. You know, he wants to win now.
He doesn't have a tomorrow. Very few of those guys do.
And so if he thinks that player can win for
him now, he's gonna jump that board. He's gonna absolutely
jump it. And we've heard some great stories throughout the
years about coaches pleading in a room to trade up
(09:11):
to get a certain guy you didn't even have to
trade up for, but he's itchy for that player. That
does occur, no matter what they tell you, you you know publicly, privately,
a lot of that does go on. Yeah, the question
I have Mike, because what do you think. You know,
we always hear the platitudes with the draft, you know,
best player available, all that stuff, But when all said
(09:32):
and done, with very few exceptions, wouldn't you say that
teams draft from need more than anything. Obviously, they're not
gonna draft a guy they have ranked seventy five. You
know they're not gonna draft that guy fifth. But we're
all said and done. They gotta fill spots on their roster.
They got to get better in certain positions or they
can't compete, so they're drafting need. Yeah, and the thing
(09:53):
about drafting best player available you can have yourself loaded
on one position and real shard on another. So I've
never believed that best player on the board theory. It
might be the best player on the board and the
biggest neat position. You know, it's one of those types
of things. But but I've never believed that. And I
do think for many coaches they don't have an opportunity
(10:20):
to watch those guys during the fall. You may get
a glimpse of it because okay, you're prepared for a game.
That's where the major colleges have an advantage. I've seen
an Alabama I've seen an Ohio State, I've seen a
Texas A and m R. L. Shoe. I've seen the
USC game and I've spotted a guy and it's it's
(10:43):
crazy how that comes into play too. You hear a
coach say, man, I'll watched the game and not all
of it, but I saw this guy from this particular school,
and I really liked it, went back and did the
little study research on it. So I think that also
is an advantage to the major college player that every
(11:04):
games on TV, but in feature games, I do think
it's a huge advantage for him. Well, Mike de Tillier
in New Orleans on radio down there obviously on the
SATs and l s U broadcast, but also for the
better part of four decades put together his own draft report.
We're gonna talk some players next. We're gonna focus on
some of the best in the SEC. Of course, some
(11:25):
of the best of the SEC, like right there in
Baton Rouge. So we will talk a few guys that
are prospects. Now what will be the difference makers in
the NFL in a few years. We continue with Mike
de Tillier next on taped's draft season. Right back on
taped's draft season, babel schoosing Gregg Cotell and Mike de
Tillier in New Orleans, an expert on l s U
SEC football and of course put together his own NFL
(11:47):
draft guide for the better part of thirty six years.
And and Mike, let's get to and Greg, maybe you
jump in with some of the L s U guys
did intrigue you the most? Because that's right in Mike's backyard.
And there are some guys from LSU that are gonna
be on the board taken early. We know that. Yeah, Well,
I think the guy we have to start hard with,
of course, is Derek Stingley. And and I watched his tape.
I think I watched him in all his games almost Mike,
(12:09):
and you've obviously seen that as well. Give give us
your sense of Derek Stingley as a prospect, and what
do you think he can be in the NFL in
twenty nineteen. Derek Stingley, And I've said this and written it.
I think he's one of the three best athlete football
players I've ever seen. At Ela shut he was the
(12:31):
best freshman cornerback I ever saw it l S. He
wasn't good, he was dominant and they didn't test him much.
As a freshman. He looked like he was gonna be
a phenom, and then injuries started to hit, and I
think it did affect his play. Also, you gotta look
at it, he was in a defensive scheme as a
(12:53):
salthamore that I just shook my head about. I didn't
know what Bopolini was doing at La Shu. My question
mark about Derek and I go back a ways because
I remember watching his grandfather when he was with the
Patriots as a receiver. His dad was a really good player.
You know, he has the genetics, he's got the will.
(13:15):
But availability comes into mind for me, and that's why
some teams are gonna question it. You could make an
argument if he were healthy, he's the best prospect in
this draft, if you were healthy for three seasons, But
that's a if. Because he hasn't been, I think it
slides him down the draft. I think still he will
(13:37):
be a top ten or eleven pick, But I think
Sauce Gardener is gonna be the first cornerback off the board.
They're less question marks and availability matters in the NFL,
especially when you picking someone that high in the draft.
He's an immensely gifted athlete with ball skills you can't teach.
(13:58):
He plays the ball like a receiver, but missing all
that time. Are you willing to pull that trigger that early?
And I think that's why Gardener has overseated him as
the top cornerback in his draft class and new to
do with talent, It's about is he gonna last a
seventeen game season when he had difficulty making it through twelve.
(14:22):
I would say two things. Number one, the ball production.
You're a percent right. His ball skills are as good
as any corner that I can recall coming out in
recent years. And you know, I'm sure there's guys going
back that I can't remember, but his ball skills are top,
top notch. The one thing if you're going to nitpick,
and and this is what I do, he had a
(14:43):
tendency and this can be cleaned up. And obviously in
college he could easily compensate for it, Mike, but he
had a tendency in press man. His first reaction was
to get back on his heels, and I think that
needs to be cleaned up because, like I said, he
could camouflage that in college where he's not playing against
NFL players well all obviously playing against a number of
(15:04):
them who will be in the NFL. But I think
that's one thing that they will work with him on
because that's that was his first reaction very often when
he was in playing mirror match press man, as he
just get back on his heels. You know, it was
funny he got beat in the Alabama game two years
ago and exactly what you said, that's how Davonte Smith
(15:25):
beat hi Ya remember I remember the play, and so
you get that he needs a little bit of technical work.
But man, when you look at here, all the skills
he's got athletically, isn't this the type guy if you
drew up a blueprint of a corner, that's what That's
(15:46):
what he would look like, long lean, fast ball scale
at the highest level. But it all goes back to health.
Willie be there for the majority of your season, our
seventeen games? And it's a legit question in because the
technical stuff you can clean up. I think a quarterback,
(16:08):
defensive back coach can clean that up. But the health part,
I think is in question here. And I think this
is why it has split him a little bit on
what everybody looks at as their top ten or eleven players,
more on the back end of ten or eleven than
on the front end. We did defensive tackles the other day,
and I know someone that kind of an under the
(16:29):
radar guy that called Gregg's attention was Neil Farrell. What
about you, man? I love Neil Farrell. He's a big
space eater in the middle. But the one thing that
I really like about him one he's been well coached. Uh.
The one thing with coach O He's had eleven first
round picks on defensive lineman, so he's been well schooled.
(16:50):
Pete Jenkins, he's worked with him in the off season.
I know Papa Pete eighty years old and so man,
he's still coaching. But it's his ability to steal a
quarterbacks launch pad. It's not that he's a great pass rusher,
but he pushes that inside pocket and that quarterback could
(17:10):
not take that one two step and walk into the throat.
Phararell's right there. So he gets you on the move
east and west. You gotta start moving. And I thought
he had a tremendous senior season at l s U.
Where he wasn't a really good player, he was an
outstanding player or the Tigers and run support. But I
(17:34):
think the big difference with him from his freshman season
until today has been his ability to push that inside
pocket and basically blow up a quarterback's launch pad. I
think he's a middle to late third round pick in
a very deep defensive tackle class. See, I couldn't agree more.
(17:56):
I actually think that when you watch his tape, you
see a guy that with more coaching and experience. And
obviously Pete Jenkins and I knew him. He was in
Philly for a number of years and he's been doing
this forever. I think he actually really showed improvement as
an interior pass rusher. Mike and I think that down
the road he's going to be a three down player
(18:16):
in the NFL, not simply a run defender. Yeah. And
the other guy to to watch is Cardell Flock because
when you see what he's done at l s U,
he's played outside corner, he's played nicol, he's played dime safety.
The Sites have a player similar to him and P J.
Williams who can do the exact same three positions. Man,
(18:40):
That to me really is a big plus for Flat
who didn't get the ink say of a Christian Fulton
or Derek Stingley. But his versatility. Now he's real thin,
so he's gonna have to physically get stronger. But his
versatility I think puts him in the middle rounds and
(19:03):
I he's gonna be a really good NFL player. But
I agree with you on Neil and that you can
see in his hand his ability to use his hands
to get off a bot cleaner is much much better.
The sad story with this is the moan Clark because
he had an unbelievable senior season at l s U.
(19:23):
Then they like three or four guys every year that's
a medical and they find out about the disc problem
and he'll miss in the NFL. But man, that guy,
if you chiseled out a linebacker, that's what he should
look like. Because he's six three, he's two d thirty
five pounds. He can run like a receiver. Somebody's gonna
(19:44):
get one hell of a player late in the draft
because I do think for the Moan that drops him.
And the one thing with L s U when you
look at the talent L s U, Alabama, Texas A
and M Georgia, all those guys were all recruited by
the same team, So either you get them or you
(20:05):
gotta play against them. That's what makes the SEC special.
That man, if you got some big time talent, you
better sign him because eventually, you bet if you got
a way to have to play against them, that's a
great point. And you know, real quick you mentioned kind
of the quote unquote other guys give us a little
thirty thousand foot view of the SEC and the other
(20:26):
numbers always said earlier in the week, just draft the
Georgia defense and you're probably fine, right, you can just
coach those guys for ten years. So how good that
group is and who are the other SEC players that
if your team is in need of a big time talent,
you should have your eyes open for a draft day.
What's unusual. L s U is only gonna have one
first round pick and that's Stingley. Alabama is only gonna
(20:47):
have to Evan Neil Jamison Williams. That's it. And don't
know drafts. Those two teams would have had six to
seven totally. Georgia may have five to six on one team.
And this was early in the summer, right after Hurricane Ida.
Pass coach Jenkins called me up because he sort of
(21:09):
mentors the defensive lineman at George and called to see
how it was doing. And he was like, hey, Mike,
you got extra money, you better better on Georgia. I
ain't never seen anything like what these guys got first
and second team. So you're probably gonna have four to
six first round picks from Georgia. I think the SEC
is gonna look a little bit different years down the
(21:32):
road because of what's happening in College Station with Jimbo Fisher.
I take that impact of what's going on there, and
I think it's the biggest fear for every SEC coach
is that guy out there. And the way it's set
up today is gonna land. And we saw it this year,
(21:54):
laying a ton of top talent. I think you'll probably
see twelve to thirteen SEC players going around one. I mean,
it's dominant each and every year. And I'll continue and
Mike one more before we let you go. Then, how
about the quarterbacks? You know, where where do you think
the pickets? Where do you think the Malik Willis's are
going to end up in this draft? Because there are
(22:15):
question marks around every quarterback. But as we know, teams
are desperate for quarterbacks. They see the ceiling like Malik
Willis obviously has. It seems like a tremendously high ceiling,
especially the way the quarterback position has evolved in today's NFL.
Where do you think those guys go? I think both
pick it and Willis going to top ten. I think
(22:38):
that connection Carolina and can't pick it. I think that's there.
Atlanta is looking for a young quarterback Malik Willis. It's
not ready for prime time yet. And you can see
he's a bit of a bolter as a quarterback. If
his initial reads not there, he takes all. It's like
(23:00):
right across from me, uh, I have a pasture with
wild horse. You can spook one of them and they
take off running. You look at Willis, his initial read
isn't there, and he'll take off running with the football.
He's gonna have to become a better passer from the pocket,
because that's what this game is about. But I look
(23:20):
at Picket going certainly to Carolina, will Is going to Atlanta.
Then I think the entry becomes where the third guy goes.
Couldn't be Pittsburgh with a Desmond river. And then I
think some team late in round one is gonna make
a small maneuver to get Matt Corral. I think four
(23:44):
going round one, and Matt to me, I think he
really played well this year, but he reminded me a
little bit of a boxer. He found out he could
take a punch, take a hit down field, and he
kept on running and eventually that takes a toll on you,
and you saw physically he wasn't the same guy from
(24:07):
mid season on, but he made great strides under Lane Kiffin.
A lot of connections there to the National Football League.
Ritter becomes the wild cord because I think some team
or Detroit would pick Matt Corral late. But where does
Ritter go anywhere from eighteen to twenty six and round
(24:31):
one and despite all that talk early, you're gonna see
those four guys going round one. Couldn't agree more awesome stuff. Mike,
thanks so much for the time. We appreciate it. Thanks,
thank you. That is Mike Attilia who was a fountain
of SEC football knowledge and of course the draft as
a whole. Baba Shusan Greg co Sell will come right
back and have some thoughts about what Mike had to
(24:53):
say about the upcoming draft when we come back on
Tapeds Draft season Bible Schus and Greg Cosell Right back
here on Tapeds draft season, Mike Tillier was tremendous. Gregg
a fountain of not a lot of interesting things that
he said. You and I have talked a lot, specifically
about the prospects that he mentioned, but I thought, you know,
there were some conceptual football draft ideas that he brought
(25:14):
up that we're interesting and maybe some things that we
haven't touched on yet. The role of coaches, right and
how there was still in many organizations the delineation between
the coaching staff and the front office, the general manager
and the scouting department, and the idea most of the
time is that the GM and the scouts we will
draft the players were the ones doing all the homework
(25:36):
on them. You tell us generally what you're looking for,
but we are the guys that have really done the
deep dive. We have done the homework. We will draft
the team. You coach the team. And now over the years,
much more coach involvement in this process, according to Mike,
I think you would agree. I certainly agree. I think
the coaches are probably maybe putting their stamp on the
(25:59):
draft room more than they did in years past in
many organizations, and I think depend on the organization, Bob,
that schism is getting bigger because, as we discussed with Mike,
I think coaches they think about their scheme and players
fitting within their scheme. Now, look, everybody likes great traits,
and that's not a profound statement. Of course, everybody wants big, fast,
(26:22):
you know, the usual stuff, whatever the positional trades demand.
Everybody wants top of the line. But there's not a
lot of guys like that. So what all said and done,
what do coaches look for? Coaches want players that can
execute within the context of their scheme and their system
at a high level. And that isn't always the guy
(26:43):
that has a specific set of traits that everybody says, wow,
those are great traits, because there are not thirty or
forty transcendent players in every draft that can do anything.
So I think that that that skism, depending on the team,
can be big. The other thing that really stood out
that and you mentioned it as well, was the value
(27:05):
of coaching. And it's funny while Mike was talking about that,
I thought to myself, one of the things I always
think about when I'm watching tape is what can be
coached and what can't be coached. And I've talked with
coaches about that through the years, because it's always easy
to say that, hey, this guy can't do that. Well,
(27:25):
is it something he can't do because he's just not
physically capable of doing it. You know, you and I
are not gonna run four or four or forties, Bob,
no matter what we do. You know that that's just life.
But then there's a lot of other things where I've
talked to coaches and I'll say, hey, I watched this
guy and I noticed this, and I'll coach will tell me, oh,
I can fix that in ten minutes. So I try
(27:46):
to think when I watched tape of what can be
coached and what can't be coached. Because college football and
the NFL is like this to a certain extent as well.
But we know in college football that during the week
they only have twenty hours of coaching with the players,
and so much is scheme based, not individual based. There's
much more individual coaching that can go on in the NFL,
(28:07):
and you always have to think about what can be
coached to improve a player. And also the coaches, I mean,
like they've got an ego, but like as you said,
like that, they'll see a guy that's rough around the edges,
but if they see a player that has tremendous talent,
coaches are always gonna believe, well, if I get my
hands on, I'll get that out of him. His college
(28:27):
coaches they couldn't get it out of him, but I'm
an NFL guy, I'll do it. And you know that
probably influences some of those decisions, or at least the
coaches wanting to campaign for a guy as well. I
would think no. And you know, it's funny. It all
goes back, and I don't know. You're probably familiar with
the story when Bill Walsh was with the Niners and
they ended up drafting Charles Halley. There's a story I
(28:49):
assume it's true. I've read it in multiple places where
they were looking for a pass rusher and they actually
put on the tape of Charles Halley and I think
he was James Madison as I recalled. Is that that's right,
And they watched two or three plays, and I guess
on those two or three plays, Bill Walsh saw something
that made him say, that's my guy. We're drafting Charles
(29:12):
Halley because he showed something that Bill Walsh, obviously one
of the greatest coaches of all time, believed he could
get him to do that at a very consistent level
because he saw it. Now, you know, I'm not that smart, Bob.
I can't watch three plays and make that call. But
I think there's a sense and you hit it right
on the head that if coaches see traits executed on tape,
(29:35):
even if a player does it not with the consistency,
would like even if it's just a flash, they always
believe that they can take that flash and develop it
to the point where that becomes ingrained in in his
game as opposed to just a once in a while thing.
And the other guy that Mike Petilia touched on, a
guy like Daman Clark right that you know gets hurt
(29:57):
and Jamison Williams, same type of scenario, different injury, but
now the same question. Absolutely no doubt about it. Way
higher in the draft had an injury not occurred. But
in today's world of medical science, we've seen guys get
hurt in college, get rehabbed in the NFL, and become
(30:17):
every bit as good, if not better a player then
we thought they may have been. And these guys sometimes
become draft steals. Is that now looked upon differently in
NFL draft rooms, where now you might be looking to
like rob the draft blind with a guy later in
the draft because he slips because of injury, rather than
crossing a guy off the way you would twenty years
(30:39):
thirty years ago because of injury. Yeah, and that's a
great point. I think that becomes team and organization specific
because of where you stand. I really like to Moan
Clark's tape and and I mean, while I haven't necesarily
made a list of the top linebackers, he would probably
be in my top five or six if I if
I made that list, And my guess is he'd be
a top fifty, top sixty pick for sure. That's not
(31:01):
going to happen now, But it depends on the team.
If you feel you have a strong team, and you think,
to Moan Clark, assuming health after this surgery and the injury,
that he's going to be as he was, and you
think he's going to be a high level linebacker. Maybe
on a given team you can draft him in the
third round and say, hey, you know what, he's going
(31:22):
to be a great player. But there's not a lot
of teams that can do that simply because they need
players that they can play this year. But the other
thing that I wanted to say in relation to the
NFL is I think particularly on defense, Bob, where a
lot of players play in different defenses. Um, whether you
have a base, whether you have and base can be multiple,
(31:43):
sub can be multiple. You might have a different sub
defense on first intent versus third intent might be different people.
So on defense, you could be playing eighteen nineteen players
throughout the course of a game. So the question is
not what players can't do, because not everybody is great.
We know that, and I had to learn that through
the years. I was why I'd be watching tape ten
(32:04):
years ago and saying to myself, Oh, this guy is
not great, And and then guys would play in the
league for ten years and I'd have to totally reassess
how I looked at players because a lot of guys
play on defense. So I think, what with so much
sub defense and so many guys playing, it's what are
his positive traits? What can he do? Not what can
(32:24):
he do? And I think the coaches who think more
in those terms within their schemes, you end up with
better players. And guys will help you more. And we
are down the home stretch now and we're two weeks
away from the NFL Draft. We'll be back next week
as we take one more step towards draft night and
go deeper into some of the prospects and what we
expect to see when the teams start calling names. I
(32:46):
think we've hit just about every position group, and now
the last couple of weeks we'll start to circle back.
We'll start to go back to the quarterbacks, back to
the wide receivers, the pass rushers, the corners, the tackles,
the names we know we're gonna get drafted high, but
also have any of the perceptions of those players shifted
it all as far as teams are concerned, because now
the boards they really start to become finalized. Now the
(33:09):
teams start to hone in on exactly what they expect
to do on draft nights. So a lot to do.
Thanks for listening, Please rate and subscribe and join us.
Next week we come back with more editions of tape
Heed's draft season.
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