April 19, 2022 • 35 mins
The Tape Heads: Draft Season podcast continues to prepare for the NFL Draft, which is now just a week away. Hosts Bob Wischusen and Greg Cosell talk about Draft philosophies and how plans change as the Draft progresses. We've learned about 'musts' and 'needs' through Draft season, but now we look at how that changes into the later rounds. Onto the player evaluations, we look at: TE Greg Dulcich, DT Neil Farrell, RB James Cook, WR Makai Polk, WR Kyle Philips, S Bryan Cook, LB Zakoby McClain, DT Matthew Butler, Edge Nick Bonitto, Edge DeAngelo Malone (W. Kentucky) and RB Tyrion Davis-Price.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Tapeds. It's a production of I Heart Media and the NFL.
We are inside of two weeks to go before finally
draft arriving, and this is TAPEDS Draft Season. Bobo Shoes
and a longtime radio voice of the New York Jets
college football broadcaster as well for ESPN for the better
(00:24):
part of two decades, which only means I have been
calling college football for ESPN half as long as Greg
ocell has been breaking down the tape for NFL films
the all twenty two matchups each week during the regular season.
But this the off season. There is no off season
in the NFL. I don't know, I call it the
off season. This is draft season. That's why we're doing
(00:45):
this at this podcast. But Greg, you know, we were
just talking off the air before we began this episode
that you're hoping to get our vacation day. That's yes,
And I'm wondering. You haven't had one since the late seventies,
So I'm wondering why you think one is coming anytime soon. Well,
I know for certain, Bob, that I haven't had one
since last August. That I know for a fact the
late seventies might be about right, because I started working
(01:07):
here at Films in July of nineventy nine, So, uh,
it's been it's probably been a few years. But uh yeah,
I think we're getting closer to the draft, and obviously
I know next week, as we get real close, we'll
return and talk a lot more about Round one and
the early names that we anticipate. But I think one
of the joys for me anyway, when I study tape
(01:30):
is looking at guys that I really don't know a
lot about. You know, I've heard their names, obviously, but
I really don't know a lot about them. And until
I put the tape on and I find that, you know,
the way I always describe it in my own mind is,
you know, when when it's virgin territory, when I really
have not seen a player. Maybe he's a smaller school guy.
He could be a big school guy, but I just
(01:51):
haven't had a chance to see him other than maybe
on TV here and there. And for me, that's the
fun of it when you when you're starting from scratch
with almost no preconceived notion whatsoever of what the player is. Yea,
we're gonna get to a few of those guys coming up.
But again, taped's draft season and as Greg said, better
part of four decades, he's been breaking down the all
(02:11):
twenty two uh at at NFL films. This of course
the time of year where he looks at all of
the college prospects as we get to set for the draft.
And we've been saying this from the start of this podcast,
and again we'll keep reiterating it all the way through
the draft. This is not your normal you know, let's
do a mock draft podcast, right, We're trying to take
(02:32):
you was into a much more realistic behind the scenes
look at how teams put together their boards, how they
approached the draft, and if there are some puzzling moments
on draft night, why those moments shouldn't be that puzzling
because teams have a strategy how they put these draft
boards together that on the surface may seem like they
(02:53):
didn't take the quote unquote best player available, but coach
system needs philosophy trying to build a foundation into their team.
All of those things are discussed in a draft room
much more than you know when you see someone who
puts together their quote unquote mock draft and who the
next guy is available on the board. So, now that
(03:16):
we're about ten days eleven days out from these teams
actually being in that war room, handing in the car
to getting the draft going great. Let's maybe take a
little bit of a deeper dive into how teams philosophically
approach the draft. Whether it's teams towards the top of
the draft that are drafting just the best player available,
(03:36):
teams a little bit deeper that actually do look at
need um, teams that are much more complete from a
roster standpoint of specific holes to plug. What do you
think of the biggest misunderstandings from the public standpoint, maybe
even the media standpoint, about how these teams address the
draft based on their individual circumstances. Yeah. I don't know
(03:57):
if it's a misconception, Bob, but I think the idea
of plus best player available is not the way the
draft works. And the only way it works that way
is that there's clearly a player who dramatically drops that
someone has rated very highly, like I imagine Derwin James
was that player a few years ago. My guess is
(04:19):
when the Cowboys drafted Ceedee Lamb, they did not anticipate
drafting or receiver in the first round, but all of
a sudden, he's sitting there at seventeen. I believe it was,
and maybe they had him as a top ten player
on their board. But pretty much the way it works now,
teams draft the best player for a specific need because
(04:39):
they're trying to get better. I think that's what people
need to understand, and I think it took me a
while to really understand that too. Is what the draft
is about for specific teams is to get better at
positions that they feel they need to get better at
so that they can truly compete. Remember when we had
(04:59):
Mike Tannenbaum on a number of weeks ago and he
talked about the ferentiation between musts and needs. You hope
you go into the draft without musts. You really do.
Some teams have them, but you hope you don't. Then
you look at needs because you have to line up
on Sunday and you want to line up with the
best players you can at every position. You don't want
(05:22):
a specific weakness to prevent you from winning. So teams
are trying to get better at specific positions, which is
why I think sometimes when you see draft choices, Bob,
someone might say, Oh, they could have gotten that guy later,
or why did they draft that guy there. Teams don't
think like that. They're trying to get better at specific
positions that are important to them, and teams group players
(05:47):
right like. That's the other thing. They will take their
top seven or eight guys and make them Tier A
or color them blue or something, and they will color
code the board. They will tear the board. So if
they've got, say, in the draft, and they really need
(06:08):
a tight end, an interior defensive lineman, interior offensive lineman,
they will look at the seven or eight guys, ten guys,
twelve guys that they may have grouped together as being
worthy of being drafted that high, and then look at
their roster and say, what do we need the most.
(06:28):
Now on your mock draft, there might be a tight
end that is rated in that mock draft quote unquote
six or seven slots higher than the interior offensive lineman
that Team X might draft in the middle of the
second round. But Team X in the middle of the
second round is sitting there going, well, we don't think
there's a big delineation between those guys. I don't have
to put together a mock draft. I don't have to
(06:48):
write the players one through three hundred. I've got a
group of players. Now, out of that group, who is
the guy that best fits our need? And I think
sometimes and Mike Tanneboum touched on it, Greg, the most
interesting stories that you hear from war rooms is and
you get to that tier of players. So you're in
the middle of the second round. You desperately need an
(07:09):
interior defensive lineman. And there are one or two in
that group of eight or ten guys that you've got
rated kind of the same in the middle of the
second round. But you spent a bunch of money at
wide receiver in the off season, right, and you drafted
a wide receiver in the first round last year. And
wait a minute, there's a wide receiver that we had
(07:32):
in our top fifteen on the board, and now we're
picking in the thirties. Do we need a receiver? Absolutely not.
We have checked that box. We spent our money in
the off season, we drafted a receiver last year. But
now what do we do because we have such a
prohibitively high grade on that player that is still available.
(07:52):
And I think that's what Mike Tanebound was talking about
right when he when he referenced that that they had
to make with Laramie tumps. Right. We we spent a
lot of money on a tackle. We don't need a tackle.
That's not what we should be draft. But he's the
number one player on our board, and we're drafting, you know,
twelve thirteen spots later. And I think that's probably the
(08:12):
most fascinating time to be in a war room, right
where there's that tug of war of do we need
that position? No, but this guy might be so prohibitably
talented we have to go take him just because he's
that good of a football player. And I think the
other part of that is is when you get maybe
beyond the first rounds. Obviously that does happen in the
first round, as you just referenced um, but I think
(08:33):
as you get into let's say, second and third round,
teams are clearly looking for certain kinds of players. Let's
say you're a defense that plays dime with six defensive backs.
Your snaps. Okay, that's a meaningful number of snaps, and
through free agency or whatever, you lost your dime player
(08:54):
that was really important to you. Okay, now we only
place your snaps, but that's a big number, and that's
a really important part of your defense. In a passing league,
So you might draft a player in the second or
third round. That's you know, a draft guru might say, what,
you know, why are they drafting that guy? But it
might be really important to what you're trying to get
(09:16):
done and what you need to get done, you know.
And I think that's where the later rounds really come
into play, when guys draft either for specific needs or
the philosophies that we started to talk about a little bit.
Sometimes teams draft guys that have great traits, but they
don't have great production, and they feel they can turn
(09:36):
those traits, those athletic traits into a player. Some teams believe, Bob,
as you know that I'd rather draft the backup defensive
tackle from an SEC school than draft they starting tackle
from a school that's not a Power five school. You know.
Some teams have different philosophies like that, and that's the
way they approach the draft, particularly when it gets into
(09:59):
the later rounds. And there's really the only position that
violates the since our principle as quarterback correct, right, Like
you said, quarterback has its own draft, its own philosophy.
You either need one or you don't. Um there are
the ron Wolves, of the world that always had the
belief that regardless of the draft, regardless of need, every
single year, at some point I'm taking a quarterback. It
(10:22):
might be the fifth, sixth, or seventh round. You never
know when you might uncover that diamond in the rough
if I see it, because you just can't have too
much talented quarterback and I certainly understand that. But that
I think sometimes is why you see teams do two things.
Reach for a quarterback, right, go up the board to
get a guy that you don't necessarily think warrants the reach.
(10:44):
Or sometimes you might see a quarterback slip inexplicably right
because if the guy had a belief behind him league wide,
someone would probably go up and reach for him and
go get him early. So it seems like there's a
little bit more of a polarization of where the quarterbacks
are taken as a post other positions. Yeah, and then
(11:05):
what teams do, which I I will freely admit I
simply don't have the time to do. I don't work
for a team. Is they have histories, they have track
records of players and certain parameters by which, uh, you know,
players do well or don't do well. For instance, I'll
give you an example just quickly, is you look at
someone and you mentioned quarterbacks, someone like Sam Howell, and
(11:27):
I'm very curious to see where he gets drafted. He's
a six foot quarterback who essentially as a pocket player.
Does he have mobility, Yes, he can move around, no question,
But if he's to be successful in the NFL, he's
not going to make his living the way Lamar Jackson
does or Russell Wilson. He's not going to be that guy.
He's going to be a pocket quarterback. So then you
(11:49):
start to think, Okay, if he's six ft in a
quarter inch, which I believe here his measurements, how many
of those guys pocket quarterbacks at six ft and a
quarter inch have really been high level NFL quarterbacks? Obviously
Drew comes to mind. But now we're in a situation
it's very newsworthy right now with Baker Mayfield, a six
(12:09):
ft pocket quarterback who is obviously not going to be
the starter in Cleveland. And we'll see. But so you
start teams think that way, Bob, as you well know,
they think in terms of track record, What does history
tell us about successful players? Same thing with things like
arm length for offensive Lineman. There's histories to all this,
(12:30):
and teams refer to that when they draft players. Yep.
And now that you have really done the Deep Dive
film was into all of the top prospects. Right, We've
we've gone through basically positioned by position over the weeks
we've done this podcast of the guys that we expect
are going to be, if not high first round picks,
maybe first round picks at worst second round picks. You're
(12:52):
always looking for those diamonds in the rough. I was
saying to somebody earlier today. I think fan bases of
teams like massively overreact to what happens Thursday night. Whereas,
like you'll see all over social media, if your team
needs a wide receiver and they don't take one Thursday night,
the whole world is up in arms. How did we
not take a receiver we needed? Almost as if they
(13:14):
forget you know, there's there's six more rounds of this
thing to go, right, We're not stopping after tonight. And
so you've done a deeper dive, and this is what
we're gonna do when we get back. You know, some
of the players that we're gonna hear, maybe their names
called Day two Day three that could be difference makers
and really might be diamonds in the rough. We'll do
that with Great Costell when we come back here Onte
(13:35):
Peds Draft Season. We're back on this at least for
this week opening edition of Taped's Draft Season. We've got
another episode that will drop on Thursday, and former Alabama
National champion, former NFL backup quarterback and now an analyst's
college football wise for ESPN, Greg McElroy is gonna join
(13:56):
us to talk about the top guys on the board
and what he sees from the quarterbacks, what he saw
in the SEC this year. That's certainly in his back
yard and where he lives. But uh, we're gonna get
to those guys coming up on Thursday. Greg, We're gonna,
you know, revisit all of the top guys on the board.
But we are now really in the weeds of the draft,
right We are only a week and a half away
from actually having cards turned in the draft getting underway.
(14:20):
It is not just as we said in our opening
segment Thursday night, there are seven rounds to this thing,
and teams that draft well are going to be the
ones that really uncover those diamonds in the rough in
later rounds, not necessarily at the top of the draft.
So I know you've gotten through so many of the
top prospects, you've now been able to go deeper and
try and find some of those diamonds in the rough
(14:41):
as well. And here are some names that's stuck out
to you. So let's run through a few of them
and give me a little, you know, kind of reader's
digest version on each of these guys, why you like them,
and maybe how high you think they are worthy of going.
How about a tight end from U. C. L A.
Greg Dulcinch. Yeah, he was very interesting to me because
this is a tight end class that most people are
(15:01):
saying is not high level. You know, there's Travis Kelsey,
there's no George Kittle, who, by the way, I think
was a fourth round pick um. There's no Darren Waller,
who actually came out of Georgia Tech as a wide
receiver before converting to tight end. So you never know.
But to me, Dulcitch fit the profile of what teams
are looking for today. He's got build up speed, he's
got stride length, he can run the vertical seams, he
(15:24):
can run crossers. He's a three level dimension, Bob, And
I think when teams are thinking about tight ends today,
unlike it was twenty years ago, they don't think about
in line blocking as their first attribute. They think about
what can he give me as a receiver? And Dulcitch
can split out from the formation, he can attack all
three levels. As I said, and you know me, Bob,
(15:46):
I'm not good with where guys get drafted because it's
very very team specific and scheme specific. But he will
play in the NFL. He will be drafted and his
snap count and target volume will be a function of
team and scheme. But Dulcitch is a really intriguing process
effect in this draft. You know, we touched on Neil Farrell,
(16:06):
defensive tackle from L s U last week, but maybe
an additional thought on him because I could tell that
he was a player that stood out to you. And
it's hard to stand out in the SEC and not
be thought of as a top ten pick, right, I mean,
every guy that stands on the SEC, you think it's
gonna go towards the top of the first rounds. How
about Farrell? You know, I realized this will come across
(16:27):
as a bold, controversial statement, and I don't mean it
that way, because everything I say is based on my
sense of watching tape, because that's what I do. But
I did not think there was a meaningful difference between
Neil Farrell the interior delignement from L s U and
divine to Wyatt the interior delignement from Georgia. And only
time will tell, and maybe I'll be dead wrong, but
(16:49):
I really liked Farrell's tape um and I thought that
he could be effective in a one gap penetrating scheme.
I thought he could be effective as a two gap
tackle with with his ability to to control and displace
offensive alignment what you need to do as a two gapper.
And I thought he showed enough pass rush that down
(17:09):
the road, I could see him playing in your sub fronts.
Not right now when he comes into the league, but
down the road. So I think he's a player that
has almost a complete skill set for an interior D lineman.
You know, he's certainly not at the highest level. We're
not going to discuss him with the Aaron Donalds or
those kinds of players, obviously, but I think that he
(17:31):
can be a three down D tackle in the NFL,
And to me was one of the best D line
prospects in this draft class. James Cook, dlvin's brother, running
back Georgia. Again in an earlier podcast, we touched on
him his skill set. You know, it's a very very
deep and talented team. Hard to get touches at Georgia.
I think he had about an eight hundred yards season
(17:53):
or so rushing as a senior. But he also showed
on ability to catch the football right like he caught
you know somewhere I think between twenty and thirty balls
or so last year. So when you're that kind of
a dual threat player at running back into day's NFL,
what do you think about James God, Yeah, and it's
funny you mentioned that he only had two seven touches,
(18:15):
which is runs and catches in his four years at Georgia,
So there's nowear and tear on his body. And he
looks just like his brother Dalvin when he runs. He
he doesn't weigh quite as much, although he did get
up I believe to one nine at the combine, but
he's still not a feature back type. I saw him,
quite honestly as very similar in the way he can
(18:36):
be deployed in the NFL as Alvin Kimara when he
came out of Tennessee. Now keep in mind, Camara, I believe,
was a third round pick um, so it was not
as if people drafted Camara and said, Wow, this guy's
special um. Camara has evolved and morphed over time with
the Saints into a little bit more of a feature
back just by necessity, but clearly in Camara's first couple
(18:58):
of years in the league, he was kind of a
what a hundred and fifty carry a year guy and
a receiver, and James Cook is that guy. He is
a phenomenal receiver. You can split him outside the formation.
Nick Saban, I know, knows that very well because he's
caught long touchdown passes against Alabama when he was split
(19:18):
outside the formation. And I've heard Nick Saban talk about
him in that way that he's a very difficult player
to defend because of that. So James Cook fits today's
NFL extremely well. Yeah, it used to be that the
only way you gotta watch running back a ball down
the sideline in space. That way would have been to
start in the backfield and run the wheel route. Correct.
(19:40):
I know that teams obviously still do that all the time.
Because that way you might be able to get a
linebacker mismatched. But I mean, now, teams make no mystery
in the NFL about what they're going to do with
their running backs. Right, they'll go empty, they'll go five wide,
but they'll do it out of base personnel with really
good pass catching running backs and really good maybe mismatch
(20:01):
tight ends and hope I might trap you in base
personnel defensively and then use these athletes in unconventional ways
to spread out your base personnel and just get an
athletic advantage against you in space. And uh, you know,
if your offensive line could hold up and and stop
pass rushers, you know, especially only keeping five in to
(20:24):
protect the quarterback, and now you get these dangerous guys
in space, well you can eat a defense up that way.
And I would think James Cook probably can play that style.
It's a match up game, Bob, As we all know.
You talk to anybody, that's one of the first things
they say. It's a matchup game. And I'm so glad
you mentioned empty sets, which more and more teams are
doing now in the NFL. In fact, the two teams
that lined up in empty the most this year played
(20:47):
in the Super Bowl, the Rams and the Bengals and
James Cook this year had a twenty three yard touchdown
versus Tennessee and a fifty three yard reception versus Michigan
in the ball game at of empty sets where he
was split outside the numbers. Yep, McKay polk. I had
Mississippi State this year diminutive wide receiver, but right he
(21:07):
began his career in a Mike Leach system at Cal.
I know he transferred to Mississippi State when Mike Leach
left Wazoo, ends up coming down to play for him
one year in Starkville, but had a very productive season.
And I think just wide angle lens McKay polk being
a good example, there used to be a bias in
the NFL against players that came from the air raid system.
(21:30):
Now you see the air Raid DNA in actual NFL offenses.
I would think that would make an air raid wide
receiver a much more attractive potential prospect than this guy
might have been thought of five, ten, fifteen years ago. Yeah,
I knew nothing about him, uh Bob when I put
on the tape other than what his measurables were. He's
over six three he's a little thin. Um. His forty
(21:53):
yard dash time was nothing special, But you can say
that a lot of about a lot of really good
NFL white outs by the way, Um, and you mentioned
the Mike Leach aarraid. You know some people still hold
that against players. And he only lines up in one place.
That's the other thing. He lined up on the right
side of the formation as the outside receiver. But I
thought he showed some detail and nuanced as a route runner.
(22:15):
He's got length, he's got really good body control. I
thought he had really good route quickness. Um. I really
liked his tape a lot. Now people are going to say, well,
he didn't run a complete route tree. You know, very
few receivers, as you know, Bob, in college football run
complete route trees because the college game is so different.
But I thought that for the routes he did run,
(22:37):
there was a route savvy to him. He showed the ability,
I'll tell you at six three, which is long, I
thought he showed the ability to stop on a dime,
and I thought he could win versus man coverage. He's
a guy that the more tape I watched, the more
I liked him. And he ended up being one of
my favorite guys to watch, who's obviously not a Day
one pick. Yeah. Interesting because that even educates me. I
(22:59):
thought I remembered him maybe just look shorter to me,
I would have asked he was more in the six
ft six one category. So the fact that he's a
legit six three makes him, I think, even more of
an interesting prospect. What about Kyle Phillips wide receiver from
U C l A. I got that. I do remember
being diminutive. I do think that that is an accurate
description right of Kyle Phillips. He's he's a little on
(23:19):
the smaller side. But I mean, we we've talked about
some guys that are you know, six foot or shorter
already in this drap that you think our potential first
round receiver prospects. Yeah, And we've talked about the fact
that that the slot receiver that there's very few guys
who you just kind of say are slot receivers now
because of what the NFL has become with the formation
variation and how they use receivers. But he's probably a
(23:42):
slot receiver. And boy does he look refined right now.
You know a number of years ago, when Cooper Cup
came out of Eastern Washington. I said that he could
roll out of bed and play in this slot right now.
I felt the same way watching Kyle Phillips. Now, he's
not quite Cup because Cup was I believe six to
or so. Phillips is five eleven and a quarter and nine.
So he's a much all or man than Cooper Cup.
(24:05):
But in some ways I think he can fill the
same role right as a rookie. He's polished, he's nuanced
as a route runner. He's got an innate field for
setting up corners before his break. He gets them off
their spot that creates separation. Uh. I really really liked
his tape. Um, you know again, another guy that's not
gonna run great, that's just not his game. Um, But
(24:28):
it would not surprise me if whoever drafted him he
played significant snaps as a rookie with a meaningful target share.
Because I think you can line this guy up in
this slot tomorrow. That's what this podcast is all about.
Great Costell telling you about diamonds in the rough. And
we've got some more of those guys that might not
be guys that whose names you hear called on day one,
(24:49):
Well you will hear many of these names called throughout
the draft, and if you want to sound smarter than
all your buddies sitting around watching the draft and realize
your team got a good one, we'll talk about maybe
on the defensive side of the ball some more diamonds
in the rough when we come back on Taped's draft season.
We are back on Tape's draft Susan Bobo Shoos and
Greg co sell diamonds in the rough that Greg has
(25:11):
found heading into the two thousand twenty two NFL Draft,
talked about a bunch of offensive guys outside of Neil Farrell.
In our second segment, let's get to some defensive guys.
They're not surprisingly a few sec guys that Greg still
wants to touch on. But we're gonna start with a
team that went to the College Football Playoff, Cincinnati and
safety Brian Cook. Yeah, he was one of my absolute
(25:33):
favorite guys to watch on tape, and obviously Cincinnati I
think had five defenders who are at the combine they
could all be drafted in the top ninety or a hundred.
I think that that Cook, to me, is going to
end up being one of the best safeties that comes
out of this draft and one of the things that
really stood out to me. And you don't see this
a lot, Bob. You do a lot of college games,
(25:54):
you know, every week, you do not see safeties who
are really good tacklers. You see safeties that like to
throw their body at guys for big hits. But I
thought that Cook was a really good tackler when you
talk about tackle and you're talking about balance, body control,
squaring up to take down runners and receivers, and he
(26:14):
played with an attitude. He's a tempo center for a defense.
He's physical, he's competitive. And I think there's two main
questions when you look at Brian Cook. Uh, can you
match up man to man to quality receiving tight ends,
especially when they're detached from the formation. He certainly has
the size and length to do that. And if you
like to play with interchangeable safeties, which more teams would
(26:35):
like to do, can he be a viable post safety
as part of your foundational defense. My sense watching the
tape is the answer to both is yes, um, And
I think he's one of those guys that will be
a starter early in his career and he'll develop into
a multidimensional safety and be a really good one. Another
(26:55):
guy that kind of fits the bill in the middle
of your defense. Zekobe McClain, linebacker for Auburn. Who I
had Auburn this past season trying to think of who
they play. They might have played Againstssissippi State. As a
matter of fact, now that I'm thinking about it, I
think I had that game. So he was probably running
sideline to sideline trying to stop Mike Leech's air raid
in that game. But his last couple of seasons, he's
(27:16):
been a tackle machine if I remember, right at Auburn,
and he's at the bottom end of what most people
would say are the parameters to play linebacker in the
NFL as a starter. He's under six feet, he's five
eleven three eight, he's two twenty eight. I'm sure a
lot of people would have wished his forty yard dash
time of four six nine was better given his measurables
in terms of height and weight. But this guy plays fast.
(27:39):
You wouldn't say he's a great athlete or a sudden athlete,
but he's a constant movement guy. He can play sideline
to sideline. There was never any hesitation in his reaction time.
That made his place, feed and range far more than functional.
Despite that that lack of higher level athleticism that I mentioned,
and I thought he had a great feel for playing
(28:01):
in the box, scraping, flowing from gap to gap. He
worked through traffic. I thought in the right scheme he
could develop into an NFL starter. Obviously at t and
under six feet, you're not. He's not a thumper, but
we know in the NFL game that that style of
linebacker is not really in that kind of demand anymore.
(28:21):
But I really like watching his tape, and if you
play a lot of own coverage, I think he could
be really a factor for you. So that's the Kobe
McClain staying in the SEC. Matthew Butler from Tennessee as
a defensive tackle, he does have NFL defensive end type measurables,
maybe a three four defensive end and interior guy in
(28:44):
a four three like, how do you think Matthew Butler
projects to the NFL? Yeah, I think this guy is
an as sending player. I really liked his tape. I
think he can function in one gap schemes and two
gaps schemes. What he did exceptionally well. Bob and we
talked about this a lot with interior D lineman is
he could control all and displace offensive lineman. He used
(29:07):
his hands exceptionally well. They were strong, they were heavy.
He's got tremendous length to him. He's six four. His
arm length and arm length matters because think of it
this way. If you have long arms and you're trying
to control and displace an offensive lineman, the longer your
arms are, the more you can keep your feet clean
(29:28):
because you can stay a further distance away because your
arms are longer. So he could steal me, he could
defeat double teams. He played off blocks exceptionally well. With
that ability to displace, I think there was a little
bit of pass rush to him that can be unlocked
because he could slide off and rush the quarterback. And
(29:48):
he played with great competitiveness, and he had some range
to him running plays down. Um. I think he's a
higher level prospect. I'm fascinated to see where he gets drafted.
And again we're not talking about Day one guy's here.
He might not even be Day too. I don't know that,
but I think he's going to play in this league
and he's going to be a factor as an interior
(30:09):
D lineman. Teams are always looking for edge rushers, right,
they're gonna be two edge rushers probably taken in the
top five of this draft. So if you can find
an edge rusher, an effective edge rusher day two, day three,
I mean that pick alone is you know, warrants the
GM his salary. Right, So let's go to a couple
(30:32):
of guys that you think might have that kind of potential.
Uh Nick Beneto from Oklahoma. Yeah, Nick Beneto. He's got
the look and feel of an edge rusher. He's sudden,
he's explosive, he's got great length at six three, he's
got natural bend. That's something you look for, and he's
got outstanding closing birth. See what he can do. And
(30:54):
this is something I look for and I think probably
coaches look for as well. Is you want to be
able to flatten your rush path when you attack the
outside or the high side of of offensive tackles. And
he can turn on his inside foot at the top
of his rush arc and then flatten to the quarterback
without losing any speed. And that's what you really would
(31:17):
love to see. Um. Now, some will say that he
needs to improve his play strength, which he may well
have to do, even though he came into to forty
eight at the combine. He does have kind of a
sleek looking bill. But keep one thing in mind, Bob.
When you're that quick, a lot of times you can
get offensive tackles to break down their technique and be
(31:38):
a little off balance. And if they're off balance, then
you can use speed to power. Even if you're not
a physically strong, powerful human being yourself, if you get
an offensive tackle off balance, then you can drive right
into him, right into his chest plate, and you can
move him because he's off balance. And I think Beneto
(31:58):
can do that. How about D'Angelo Malone from Western Kentucky
when you talk about a small, older school guy, but
as an edge rusher, Yeah, And what stood out with
him is he's got phenomenal lower body flexibility. And I
think that's really really important when you think about pass
rushers because you have to be able to transition, change direction,
you have to be smooth in doing so, you know,
(32:21):
just to make a comparison, and obviously D'Angelo Malone will
not be a first round pick, and the player I
will mention could well be. And that's George Karl Loftus.
One of the things that stood out about Carl loftus
to me was he did not have lower body flexibility
Malone does. And he's another player that's long, excellent arm length. Um,
I think he's going to be really interesting. I spoke
(32:43):
to a GM who said, for sure he'll be a
Day two pick. Now again, you never know, but this
was a GM and they're they're probably a little more
clued in than I am, Bob, But I think he's
at his best as a wide edge player or he
has space and room to keep his legs clean, generate
speed and velocity that maximizes his quickness and fluid of movement.
(33:04):
But I noticed as I watched more and more tape
they also used him as what we call a joker
on third down, where he stood up behind the defensive
line and kind of picked and chose where he rushed.
And they used him as part of stunts that way
as well, so he can develop into a multidimensional pass rusher.
And one last offensive guy quick touch on Tyrian Davis
(33:26):
Price running back l s U. Yeah, he um again
another guy I watched very late in the process because
he's not a name I've seen people talk about very
much at all. I don't think you've seen his name
talked about either much at all, And I was really
impressed with this guy. I mean, he's got higher level
combination of size, speed, power, He's a big athletic back.
(33:48):
He's got burst acceleration. He ran with natural bend for
back over six feet. He's got a physical presence to him.
He finished runs, he dropped his pads. Um. You know,
this guy has premium talent. And I'm and again he's
probably not a pass receiver. Uh, so that's going to
drop him, I'm sure in terms of the way people
(34:10):
see him. But I really liked his tape. And again,
he did a lot of this in the SEC the
last half of his season at l s U when
they gave him the ball and he carried numerous games
over twenty times. He was a very impressive player. All Right,
So you've made guys who are football nerds even nerdier.
They're gonna look brilliant when they bring these names up
to their buddies when they're watching the draft. Uh. We've
(34:33):
got a lot more to talk about between now and
draft time. Though. That'll do it for this episode. But
when we come back with our next episode dropping on Thursday,
we'll get back to the Top of the Board, talk
about some of the biggest prospects, the SEC guys, the quarterbacks.
No one better to talk about that within Greg McElroy,
who along with Cold Cublic they do mornings in Birmingham
and they are going to join us. At least Greg
(34:55):
is going to join us in our Thursday episode to
take a deeper dive top of the Board, the SEC
and everything that we've been talking about terms the philosophy
of the draft, as well as we will bring you
another episode of tapeds Draft Season on Thursday. Please rate, subscribe,
tell us maybe some players you'd still like to hear
about as we head up towards traft Night, which is
(35:17):
only a week and a half away now. It is
Bobo Schus and Gregg Costell. We will see you again
Thursday on tap Peds Draft Season
Tapeds. It's a production of I Heart Media and the NFL.
We are inside of two weeks to go before finally
draft arriving, and this is TAPEDS Draft Season. Bobo Shoes
and a longtime radio voice of the New York Jets
college football broadcaster as well for ESPN for the better
(00:24):
part of two decades, which only means I have been
calling college football for ESPN half as long as Greg
ocell has been breaking down the tape for NFL films
the all twenty two matchups each week during the regular season.
But this the off season. There is no off season
in the NFL. I don't know, I call it the
off season. This is draft season. That's why we're doing
(00:45):
this at this podcast. But Greg, you know, we were
just talking off the air before we began this episode
that you're hoping to get our vacation day. That's yes,
And I'm wondering. You haven't had one since the late seventies,
So I'm wondering why you think one is coming anytime soon. Well,
I know for certain, Bob, that I haven't had one
since last August. That I know for a fact the
late seventies might be about right, because I started working
(01:07):
here at Films in July of nineventy nine, So, uh,
it's been it's probably been a few years. But uh yeah,
I think we're getting closer to the draft, and obviously
I know next week, as we get real close, we'll
return and talk a lot more about Round one and
the early names that we anticipate. But I think one
of the joys for me anyway, when I study tape
(01:30):
is looking at guys that I really don't know a
lot about. You know, I've heard their names, obviously, but
I really don't know a lot about them. And until
I put the tape on and I find that, you know,
the way I always describe it in my own mind is,
you know, when when it's virgin territory, when I really
have not seen a player. Maybe he's a smaller school guy.
He could be a big school guy, but I just
(01:51):
haven't had a chance to see him other than maybe
on TV here and there. And for me, that's the
fun of it when you when you're starting from scratch
with almost no preconceived notion whatsoever of what the player is. Yea,
we're gonna get to a few of those guys coming up.
But again, taped's draft season and as Greg said, better
part of four decades, he's been breaking down the all
(02:11):
twenty two uh at at NFL films. This of course
the time of year where he looks at all of
the college prospects as we get to set for the draft.
And we've been saying this from the start of this podcast,
and again we'll keep reiterating it all the way through
the draft. This is not your normal you know, let's
do a mock draft podcast, right, We're trying to take
(02:32):
you was into a much more realistic behind the scenes
look at how teams put together their boards, how they
approached the draft, and if there are some puzzling moments
on draft night, why those moments shouldn't be that puzzling
because teams have a strategy how they put these draft
boards together that on the surface may seem like they
(02:53):
didn't take the quote unquote best player available, but coach
system needs philosophy trying to build a foundation into their team.
All of those things are discussed in a draft room
much more than you know when you see someone who
puts together their quote unquote mock draft and who the
next guy is available on the board. So, now that
(03:16):
we're about ten days eleven days out from these teams
actually being in that war room, handing in the car
to getting the draft going great. Let's maybe take a
little bit of a deeper dive into how teams philosophically
approach the draft. Whether it's teams towards the top of
the draft that are drafting just the best player available,
(03:36):
teams a little bit deeper that actually do look at
need um, teams that are much more complete from a
roster standpoint of specific holes to plug. What do you
think of the biggest misunderstandings from the public standpoint, maybe
even the media standpoint, about how these teams address the
draft based on their individual circumstances. Yeah. I don't know
(03:57):
if it's a misconception, Bob, but I think the idea
of plus best player available is not the way the
draft works. And the only way it works that way
is that there's clearly a player who dramatically drops that
someone has rated very highly, like I imagine Derwin James
was that player a few years ago. My guess is
(04:19):
when the Cowboys drafted Ceedee Lamb, they did not anticipate
drafting or receiver in the first round, but all of
a sudden, he's sitting there at seventeen. I believe it was,
and maybe they had him as a top ten player
on their board. But pretty much the way it works now,
teams draft the best player for a specific need because
(04:39):
they're trying to get better. I think that's what people
need to understand, and I think it took me a
while to really understand that too. Is what the draft
is about for specific teams is to get better at
positions that they feel they need to get better at
so that they can truly compete. Remember when we had
(04:59):
Mike Tannenbaum on a number of weeks ago and he
talked about the ferentiation between musts and needs. You hope
you go into the draft without musts. You really do.
Some teams have them, but you hope you don't. Then
you look at needs because you have to line up
on Sunday and you want to line up with the
best players you can at every position. You don't want
(05:22):
a specific weakness to prevent you from winning. So teams
are trying to get better at specific positions, which is
why I think sometimes when you see draft choices, Bob,
someone might say, Oh, they could have gotten that guy later,
or why did they draft that guy there. Teams don't
think like that. They're trying to get better at specific
positions that are important to them, and teams group players
(05:47):
right like. That's the other thing. They will take their
top seven or eight guys and make them Tier A
or color them blue or something, and they will color
code the board. They will tear the board. So if
they've got, say, in the draft, and they really need
(06:08):
a tight end, an interior defensive lineman, interior offensive lineman,
they will look at the seven or eight guys, ten guys,
twelve guys that they may have grouped together as being
worthy of being drafted that high, and then look at
their roster and say, what do we need the most.
(06:28):
Now on your mock draft, there might be a tight
end that is rated in that mock draft quote unquote
six or seven slots higher than the interior offensive lineman
that Team X might draft in the middle of the
second round. But Team X in the middle of the
second round is sitting there going, well, we don't think
there's a big delineation between those guys. I don't have
to put together a mock draft. I don't have to
(06:48):
write the players one through three hundred. I've got a
group of players. Now, out of that group, who is
the guy that best fits our need? And I think
sometimes and Mike Tanneboum touched on it, Greg, the most
interesting stories that you hear from war rooms is and
you get to that tier of players. So you're in
the middle of the second round. You desperately need an
(07:09):
interior defensive lineman. And there are one or two in
that group of eight or ten guys that you've got
rated kind of the same in the middle of the
second round. But you spent a bunch of money at
wide receiver in the off season, right, and you drafted
a wide receiver in the first round last year. And
wait a minute, there's a wide receiver that we had
(07:32):
in our top fifteen on the board, and now we're
picking in the thirties. Do we need a receiver? Absolutely not.
We have checked that box. We spent our money in
the off season, we drafted a receiver last year. But
now what do we do because we have such a
prohibitively high grade on that player that is still available.
(07:52):
And I think that's what Mike Tanebound was talking about
right when he when he referenced that that they had
to make with Laramie tumps. Right. We we spent a
lot of money on a tackle. We don't need a tackle.
That's not what we should be draft. But he's the
number one player on our board, and we're drafting, you know,
twelve thirteen spots later. And I think that's probably the
(08:12):
most fascinating time to be in a war room, right
where there's that tug of war of do we need
that position? No, but this guy might be so prohibitably
talented we have to go take him just because he's
that good of a football player. And I think the
other part of that is is when you get maybe
beyond the first rounds. Obviously that does happen in the
first round, as you just referenced um, but I think
(08:33):
as you get into let's say, second and third round,
teams are clearly looking for certain kinds of players. Let's
say you're a defense that plays dime with six defensive backs.
Your snaps. Okay, that's a meaningful number of snaps, and
through free agency or whatever, you lost your dime player
(08:54):
that was really important to you. Okay, now we only
place your snaps, but that's a big number, and that's
a really important part of your defense. In a passing league,
So you might draft a player in the second or
third round. That's you know, a draft guru might say, what,
you know, why are they drafting that guy? But it
might be really important to what you're trying to get
(09:16):
done and what you need to get done, you know.
And I think that's where the later rounds really come
into play, when guys draft either for specific needs or
the philosophies that we started to talk about a little bit.
Sometimes teams draft guys that have great traits, but they
don't have great production, and they feel they can turn
(09:36):
those traits, those athletic traits into a player. Some teams believe, Bob,
as you know that I'd rather draft the backup defensive
tackle from an SEC school than draft they starting tackle
from a school that's not a Power five school. You know.
Some teams have different philosophies like that, and that's the
way they approach the draft, particularly when it gets into
(09:59):
the later rounds. And there's really the only position that
violates the since our principle as quarterback correct, right, Like
you said, quarterback has its own draft, its own philosophy.
You either need one or you don't. Um there are
the ron Wolves, of the world that always had the
belief that regardless of the draft, regardless of need, every
single year, at some point I'm taking a quarterback. It
(10:22):
might be the fifth, sixth, or seventh round. You never
know when you might uncover that diamond in the rough
if I see it, because you just can't have too
much talented quarterback and I certainly understand that. But that
I think sometimes is why you see teams do two things.
Reach for a quarterback, right, go up the board to
get a guy that you don't necessarily think warrants the reach.
(10:44):
Or sometimes you might see a quarterback slip inexplicably right
because if the guy had a belief behind him league wide,
someone would probably go up and reach for him and
go get him early. So it seems like there's a
little bit more of a polarization of where the quarterbacks
are taken as a post other positions. Yeah, and then
(11:05):
what teams do, which I I will freely admit I
simply don't have the time to do. I don't work
for a team. Is they have histories, they have track
records of players and certain parameters by which, uh, you know,
players do well or don't do well. For instance, I'll
give you an example just quickly, is you look at
someone and you mentioned quarterbacks, someone like Sam Howell, and
(11:27):
I'm very curious to see where he gets drafted. He's
a six foot quarterback who essentially as a pocket player.
Does he have mobility, Yes, he can move around, no question,
But if he's to be successful in the NFL, he's
not going to make his living the way Lamar Jackson
does or Russell Wilson. He's not going to be that guy.
He's going to be a pocket quarterback. So then you
(11:49):
start to think, Okay, if he's six ft in a
quarter inch, which I believe here his measurements, how many
of those guys pocket quarterbacks at six ft and a
quarter inch have really been high level NFL quarterbacks? Obviously
Drew comes to mind. But now we're in a situation
it's very newsworthy right now with Baker Mayfield, a six
(12:09):
ft pocket quarterback who is obviously not going to be
the starter in Cleveland. And we'll see. But so you
start teams think that way, Bob, as you well know,
they think in terms of track record, What does history
tell us about successful players? Same thing with things like
arm length for offensive Lineman. There's histories to all this,
(12:30):
and teams refer to that when they draft players. Yep.
And now that you have really done the Deep Dive
film was into all of the top prospects. Right, We've
we've gone through basically positioned by position over the weeks
we've done this podcast of the guys that we expect
are going to be, if not high first round picks,
maybe first round picks at worst second round picks. You're
(12:52):
always looking for those diamonds in the rough. I was
saying to somebody earlier today. I think fan bases of
teams like massively overreact to what happens Thursday night. Whereas,
like you'll see all over social media, if your team
needs a wide receiver and they don't take one Thursday night,
the whole world is up in arms. How did we
not take a receiver we needed? Almost as if they
(13:14):
forget you know, there's there's six more rounds of this
thing to go, right, We're not stopping after tonight. And
so you've done a deeper dive, and this is what
we're gonna do when we get back. You know, some
of the players that we're gonna hear, maybe their names
called Day two Day three that could be difference makers
and really might be diamonds in the rough. We'll do
that with Great Costell when we come back here Onte
(13:35):
Peds Draft Season. We're back on this at least for
this week opening edition of Taped's Draft Season. We've got
another episode that will drop on Thursday, and former Alabama
National champion, former NFL backup quarterback and now an analyst's
college football wise for ESPN, Greg McElroy is gonna join
(13:56):
us to talk about the top guys on the board
and what he sees from the quarterbacks, what he saw
in the SEC this year. That's certainly in his back
yard and where he lives. But uh, we're gonna get
to those guys coming up on Thursday. Greg, We're gonna,
you know, revisit all of the top guys on the board.
But we are now really in the weeds of the draft,
right We are only a week and a half away
from actually having cards turned in the draft getting underway.
(14:20):
It is not just as we said in our opening
segment Thursday night, there are seven rounds to this thing,
and teams that draft well are going to be the
ones that really uncover those diamonds in the rough in
later rounds, not necessarily at the top of the draft.
So I know you've gotten through so many of the
top prospects, you've now been able to go deeper and
try and find some of those diamonds in the rough
(14:41):
as well. And here are some names that's stuck out
to you. So let's run through a few of them
and give me a little, you know, kind of reader's
digest version on each of these guys, why you like them,
and maybe how high you think they are worthy of going.
How about a tight end from U. C. L A.
Greg Dulcinch. Yeah, he was very interesting to me because
this is a tight end class that most people are
(15:01):
saying is not high level. You know, there's Travis Kelsey,
there's no George Kittle, who, by the way, I think
was a fourth round pick um. There's no Darren Waller,
who actually came out of Georgia Tech as a wide
receiver before converting to tight end. So you never know.
But to me, Dulcitch fit the profile of what teams
are looking for today. He's got build up speed, he's
got stride length, he can run the vertical seams, he
(15:24):
can run crossers. He's a three level dimension, Bob, And
I think when teams are thinking about tight ends today,
unlike it was twenty years ago, they don't think about
in line blocking as their first attribute. They think about
what can he give me as a receiver? And Dulcitch
can split out from the formation, he can attack all
three levels. As I said, and you know me, Bob,
(15:46):
I'm not good with where guys get drafted because it's
very very team specific and scheme specific. But he will
play in the NFL. He will be drafted and his
snap count and target volume will be a function of
team and scheme. But Dulcitch is a really intriguing process
effect in this draft. You know, we touched on Neil Farrell,
(16:06):
defensive tackle from L s U last week, but maybe
an additional thought on him because I could tell that
he was a player that stood out to you. And
it's hard to stand out in the SEC and not
be thought of as a top ten pick, right, I mean,
every guy that stands on the SEC, you think it's
gonna go towards the top of the first rounds. How
about Farrell? You know, I realized this will come across
(16:27):
as a bold, controversial statement, and I don't mean it
that way, because everything I say is based on my
sense of watching tape, because that's what I do. But
I did not think there was a meaningful difference between
Neil Farrell the interior delignement from L s U and
divine to Wyatt the interior delignement from Georgia. And only
time will tell, and maybe I'll be dead wrong, but
(16:49):
I really liked Farrell's tape um and I thought that
he could be effective in a one gap penetrating scheme.
I thought he could be effective as a two gap
tackle with with his ability to to control and displace
offensive alignment what you need to do as a two gapper.
And I thought he showed enough pass rush that down
(17:09):
the road, I could see him playing in your sub fronts.
Not right now when he comes into the league, but
down the road. So I think he's a player that
has almost a complete skill set for an interior D lineman.
You know, he's certainly not at the highest level. We're
not going to discuss him with the Aaron Donalds or
those kinds of players, obviously, but I think that he
(17:31):
can be a three down D tackle in the NFL,
And to me was one of the best D line
prospects in this draft class. James Cook, dlvin's brother, running
back Georgia. Again in an earlier podcast, we touched on
him his skill set. You know, it's a very very
deep and talented team. Hard to get touches at Georgia.
I think he had about an eight hundred yards season
(17:53):
or so rushing as a senior. But he also showed
on ability to catch the football right like he caught
you know somewhere I think between twenty and thirty balls
or so last year. So when you're that kind of
a dual threat player at running back into day's NFL,
what do you think about James God, Yeah, and it's
funny you mentioned that he only had two seven touches,
(18:15):
which is runs and catches in his four years at Georgia,
So there's nowear and tear on his body. And he
looks just like his brother Dalvin when he runs. He
he doesn't weigh quite as much, although he did get
up I believe to one nine at the combine, but
he's still not a feature back type. I saw him,
quite honestly as very similar in the way he can
(18:36):
be deployed in the NFL as Alvin Kimara when he
came out of Tennessee. Now keep in mind, Camara, I believe,
was a third round pick um, so it was not
as if people drafted Camara and said, Wow, this guy's
special um. Camara has evolved and morphed over time with
the Saints into a little bit more of a feature
back just by necessity, but clearly in Camara's first couple
(18:58):
of years in the league, he was kind of a
what a hundred and fifty carry a year guy and
a receiver, and James Cook is that guy. He is
a phenomenal receiver. You can split him outside the formation.
Nick Saban, I know, knows that very well because he's
caught long touchdown passes against Alabama when he was split
(19:18):
outside the formation. And I've heard Nick Saban talk about
him in that way that he's a very difficult player
to defend because of that. So James Cook fits today's
NFL extremely well. Yeah, it used to be that the
only way you gotta watch running back a ball down
the sideline in space. That way would have been to
start in the backfield and run the wheel route. Correct.
(19:40):
I know that teams obviously still do that all the time.
Because that way you might be able to get a
linebacker mismatched. But I mean, now, teams make no mystery
in the NFL about what they're going to do with
their running backs. Right, they'll go empty, they'll go five wide,
but they'll do it out of base personnel with really
good pass catching running backs and really good maybe mismatch
(20:01):
tight ends and hope I might trap you in base
personnel defensively and then use these athletes in unconventional ways
to spread out your base personnel and just get an
athletic advantage against you in space. And uh, you know,
if your offensive line could hold up and and stop
pass rushers, you know, especially only keeping five in to
(20:24):
protect the quarterback, and now you get these dangerous guys
in space, well you can eat a defense up that way.
And I would think James Cook probably can play that style.
It's a match up game, Bob, As we all know.
You talk to anybody, that's one of the first things
they say. It's a matchup game. And I'm so glad
you mentioned empty sets, which more and more teams are
doing now in the NFL. In fact, the two teams
that lined up in empty the most this year played
(20:47):
in the Super Bowl, the Rams and the Bengals and
James Cook this year had a twenty three yard touchdown
versus Tennessee and a fifty three yard reception versus Michigan
in the ball game at of empty sets where he
was split outside the numbers. Yep, McKay polk. I had
Mississippi State this year diminutive wide receiver, but right he
(21:07):
began his career in a Mike Leach system at Cal.
I know he transferred to Mississippi State when Mike Leach
left Wazoo, ends up coming down to play for him
one year in Starkville, but had a very productive season.
And I think just wide angle lens McKay polk being
a good example, there used to be a bias in
the NFL against players that came from the air raid system.
(21:30):
Now you see the air Raid DNA in actual NFL offenses.
I would think that would make an air raid wide
receiver a much more attractive potential prospect than this guy
might have been thought of five, ten, fifteen years ago. Yeah,
I knew nothing about him, uh Bob when I put
on the tape other than what his measurables were. He's
over six three he's a little thin. Um. His forty
(21:53):
yard dash time was nothing special, But you can say
that a lot of about a lot of really good
NFL white outs by the way, Um, and you mentioned
the Mike Leach aarraid. You know some people still hold
that against players. And he only lines up in one place.
That's the other thing. He lined up on the right
side of the formation as the outside receiver. But I
thought he showed some detail and nuanced as a route runner.
(22:15):
He's got length, he's got really good body control. I
thought he had really good route quickness. Um. I really
liked his tape a lot. Now people are going to say, well,
he didn't run a complete route tree. You know, very
few receivers, as you know, Bob, in college football run
complete route trees because the college game is so different.
But I thought that for the routes he did run,
(22:37):
there was a route savvy to him. He showed the ability,
I'll tell you at six three, which is long, I
thought he showed the ability to stop on a dime,
and I thought he could win versus man coverage. He's
a guy that the more tape I watched, the more
I liked him. And he ended up being one of
my favorite guys to watch, who's obviously not a Day
one pick. Yeah. Interesting because that even educates me. I
(22:59):
thought I remembered him maybe just look shorter to me,
I would have asked he was more in the six
ft six one category. So the fact that he's a
legit six three makes him, I think, even more of
an interesting prospect. What about Kyle Phillips wide receiver from
U C l A. I got that. I do remember
being diminutive. I do think that that is an accurate
description right of Kyle Phillips. He's he's a little on
(23:19):
the smaller side. But I mean, we we've talked about
some guys that are you know, six foot or shorter
already in this drap that you think our potential first
round receiver prospects. Yeah, And we've talked about the fact
that that the slot receiver that there's very few guys
who you just kind of say are slot receivers now
because of what the NFL has become with the formation
variation and how they use receivers. But he's probably a
(23:42):
slot receiver. And boy does he look refined right now.
You know a number of years ago, when Cooper Cup
came out of Eastern Washington. I said that he could
roll out of bed and play in this slot right now.
I felt the same way watching Kyle Phillips. Now, he's
not quite Cup because Cup was I believe six to
or so. Phillips is five eleven and a quarter and nine.
So he's a much all or man than Cooper Cup.
(24:05):
But in some ways I think he can fill the
same role right as a rookie. He's polished, he's nuanced
as a route runner. He's got an innate field for
setting up corners before his break. He gets them off
their spot that creates separation. Uh. I really really liked
his tape. Um, you know again, another guy that's not
gonna run great, that's just not his game. Um, But
(24:28):
it would not surprise me if whoever drafted him he
played significant snaps as a rookie with a meaningful target share.
Because I think you can line this guy up in
this slot tomorrow. That's what this podcast is all about.
Great Costell telling you about diamonds in the rough. And
we've got some more of those guys that might not
be guys that whose names you hear called on day one,
(24:49):
Well you will hear many of these names called throughout
the draft, and if you want to sound smarter than
all your buddies sitting around watching the draft and realize
your team got a good one, we'll talk about maybe
on the defensive side of the ball some more diamonds
in the rough when we come back on Taped's draft season.
We are back on Tape's draft Susan Bobo Shoos and
Greg co sell diamonds in the rough that Greg has
(25:11):
found heading into the two thousand twenty two NFL Draft,
talked about a bunch of offensive guys outside of Neil Farrell.
In our second segment, let's get to some defensive guys.
They're not surprisingly a few sec guys that Greg still
wants to touch on. But we're gonna start with a
team that went to the College Football Playoff, Cincinnati and
safety Brian Cook. Yeah, he was one of my absolute
(25:33):
favorite guys to watch on tape, and obviously Cincinnati I
think had five defenders who are at the combine they
could all be drafted in the top ninety or a hundred.
I think that that Cook, to me, is going to
end up being one of the best safeties that comes
out of this draft and one of the things that
really stood out to me. And you don't see this
a lot, Bob. You do a lot of college games,
(25:54):
you know, every week, you do not see safeties who
are really good tacklers. You see safeties that like to
throw their body at guys for big hits. But I
thought that Cook was a really good tackler when you
talk about tackle and you're talking about balance, body control,
squaring up to take down runners and receivers, and he
(26:14):
played with an attitude. He's a tempo center for a defense.
He's physical, he's competitive. And I think there's two main
questions when you look at Brian Cook. Uh, can you
match up man to man to quality receiving tight ends,
especially when they're detached from the formation. He certainly has
the size and length to do that. And if you
like to play with interchangeable safeties, which more teams would
(26:35):
like to do, can he be a viable post safety
as part of your foundational defense. My sense watching the
tape is the answer to both is yes, um, And
I think he's one of those guys that will be
a starter early in his career and he'll develop into
a multidimensional safety and be a really good one. Another
(26:55):
guy that kind of fits the bill in the middle
of your defense. Zekobe McClain, linebacker for Auburn. Who I
had Auburn this past season trying to think of who
they play. They might have played Againstssissippi State. As a
matter of fact, now that I'm thinking about it, I
think I had that game. So he was probably running
sideline to sideline trying to stop Mike Leech's air raid
in that game. But his last couple of seasons, he's
(27:16):
been a tackle machine if I remember, right at Auburn,
and he's at the bottom end of what most people
would say are the parameters to play linebacker in the
NFL as a starter. He's under six feet, he's five
eleven three eight, he's two twenty eight. I'm sure a
lot of people would have wished his forty yard dash
time of four six nine was better given his measurables
in terms of height and weight. But this guy plays fast.
(27:39):
You wouldn't say he's a great athlete or a sudden athlete,
but he's a constant movement guy. He can play sideline
to sideline. There was never any hesitation in his reaction time.
That made his place, feed and range far more than functional.
Despite that that lack of higher level athleticism that I mentioned,
and I thought he had a great feel for playing
(28:01):
in the box, scraping, flowing from gap to gap. He
worked through traffic. I thought in the right scheme he
could develop into an NFL starter. Obviously at t and
under six feet, you're not. He's not a thumper, but
we know in the NFL game that that style of
linebacker is not really in that kind of demand anymore.
(28:21):
But I really like watching his tape, and if you
play a lot of own coverage, I think he could
be really a factor for you. So that's the Kobe
McClain staying in the SEC. Matthew Butler from Tennessee as
a defensive tackle, he does have NFL defensive end type measurables,
maybe a three four defensive end and interior guy in
(28:44):
a four three like, how do you think Matthew Butler
projects to the NFL? Yeah, I think this guy is
an as sending player. I really liked his tape. I
think he can function in one gap schemes and two
gaps schemes. What he did exceptionally well. Bob and we
talked about this a lot with interior D lineman is
he could control all and displace offensive lineman. He used
(29:07):
his hands exceptionally well. They were strong, they were heavy.
He's got tremendous length to him. He's six four. His
arm length and arm length matters because think of it
this way. If you have long arms and you're trying
to control and displace an offensive lineman, the longer your
arms are, the more you can keep your feet clean
(29:28):
because you can stay a further distance away because your
arms are longer. So he could steal me, he could
defeat double teams. He played off blocks exceptionally well. With
that ability to displace, I think there was a little
bit of pass rush to him that can be unlocked
because he could slide off and rush the quarterback. And
(29:48):
he played with great competitiveness, and he had some range
to him running plays down. Um. I think he's a
higher level prospect. I'm fascinated to see where he gets drafted.
And again we're not talking about Day one guy's here.
He might not even be Day too. I don't know that,
but I think he's going to play in this league
and he's going to be a factor as an interior
(30:09):
D lineman. Teams are always looking for edge rushers, right,
they're gonna be two edge rushers probably taken in the
top five of this draft. So if you can find
an edge rusher, an effective edge rusher day two, day three,
I mean that pick alone is you know, warrants the
GM his salary. Right, So let's go to a couple
(30:32):
of guys that you think might have that kind of potential.
Uh Nick Beneto from Oklahoma. Yeah, Nick Beneto. He's got
the look and feel of an edge rusher. He's sudden,
he's explosive, he's got great length at six three, he's
got natural bend. That's something you look for, and he's
got outstanding closing birth. See what he can do. And
(30:54):
this is something I look for and I think probably
coaches look for as well. Is you want to be
able to flatten your rush path when you attack the
outside or the high side of of offensive tackles. And
he can turn on his inside foot at the top
of his rush arc and then flatten to the quarterback
without losing any speed. And that's what you really would
(31:17):
love to see. Um. Now, some will say that he
needs to improve his play strength, which he may well
have to do, even though he came into to forty
eight at the combine. He does have kind of a
sleek looking bill. But keep one thing in mind, Bob.
When you're that quick, a lot of times you can
get offensive tackles to break down their technique and be
(31:38):
a little off balance. And if they're off balance, then
you can use speed to power. Even if you're not
a physically strong, powerful human being yourself, if you get
an offensive tackle off balance, then you can drive right
into him, right into his chest plate, and you can
move him because he's off balance. And I think Beneto
(31:58):
can do that. How about D'Angelo Malone from Western Kentucky
when you talk about a small, older school guy, but
as an edge rusher, Yeah, And what stood out with
him is he's got phenomenal lower body flexibility. And I
think that's really really important when you think about pass
rushers because you have to be able to transition, change direction,
you have to be smooth in doing so, you know,
(32:21):
just to make a comparison, and obviously D'Angelo Malone will
not be a first round pick, and the player I
will mention could well be. And that's George Karl Loftus.
One of the things that stood out about Carl loftus
to me was he did not have lower body flexibility
Malone does. And he's another player that's long, excellent arm length. Um,
I think he's going to be really interesting. I spoke
(32:43):
to a GM who said, for sure he'll be a
Day two pick. Now again, you never know, but this
was a GM and they're they're probably a little more
clued in than I am, Bob, But I think he's
at his best as a wide edge player or he
has space and room to keep his legs clean, generate
speed and velocity that maximizes his quickness and fluid of movement.
(33:04):
But I noticed as I watched more and more tape
they also used him as what we call a joker
on third down, where he stood up behind the defensive
line and kind of picked and chose where he rushed.
And they used him as part of stunts that way
as well, so he can develop into a multidimensional pass rusher.
And one last offensive guy quick touch on Tyrian Davis
(33:26):
Price running back l s U. Yeah, he um again
another guy I watched very late in the process because
he's not a name I've seen people talk about very
much at all. I don't think you've seen his name
talked about either much at all, And I was really
impressed with this guy. I mean, he's got higher level
combination of size, speed, power, He's a big athletic back.
(33:48):
He's got burst acceleration. He ran with natural bend for
back over six feet. He's got a physical presence to him.
He finished runs, he dropped his pads. Um. You know,
this guy has premium talent. And I'm and again he's
probably not a pass receiver. Uh, so that's going to
drop him, I'm sure in terms of the way people
(34:10):
see him. But I really liked his tape. And again,
he did a lot of this in the SEC the
last half of his season at l s U when
they gave him the ball and he carried numerous games
over twenty times. He was a very impressive player. All Right,
So you've made guys who are football nerds even nerdier.
They're gonna look brilliant when they bring these names up
to their buddies when they're watching the draft. Uh. We've
(34:33):
got a lot more to talk about between now and
draft time. Though. That'll do it for this episode. But
when we come back with our next episode dropping on Thursday,
we'll get back to the Top of the Board, talk
about some of the biggest prospects, the SEC guys, the quarterbacks.
No one better to talk about that within Greg McElroy,
who along with Cold Cublic they do mornings in Birmingham
and they are going to join us. At least Greg
(34:55):
is going to join us in our Thursday episode to
take a deeper dive top of the Board, the SEC
and everything that we've been talking about terms the philosophy
of the draft, as well as we will bring you
another episode of tapeds Draft Season on Thursday. Please rate, subscribe,
tell us maybe some players you'd still like to hear
about as we head up towards traft Night, which is
(35:17):
only a week and a half away now. It is
Bobo Schus and Gregg Costell. We will see you again
Thursday on tap Peds Draft Season
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