April 21, 2022 • 40 mins
In this episode of the Tape Heads: Draft Season podcast, hosts Bob Wischusen and Greg Cosell welcome former Alabama/NFL QB Greg McElroy to the show. We discuss the 'traits' that teams look for in a QB and how those look in college football. Greg explains how most successful guys he's seen start with a mental makeup to navigate the process and gameday execution. NFL Prospect Matt Corral is the QB that Greg has really been impressed with through his play and preparation. A few guys in the Draft have the good traits, but almost all of them have faults as well. A player like Malik Willis needs time and reps as he's a great athlete who needs to learn how to set his feet and not always be on the move. Greg sees plenty of WR talent in this Draft and tells us why he wouldn't be spending any higher picks when there is value deep in the position. We wrap up with the different evaluations that some players get from different sources.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Tape Heeds. It's a production of I Heart Media and
the NFL. Only a week away from the two thousand
twenty two NFL Draft. Thank goodness, we are officially in
the home stretch. This is Tape Heeds Draft Season. Bobo
shoes In a longtime radio voice of the New York Jets,
also played by play guy for ESPN College Football for
(00:25):
probably too many years, which means that Greg cos Sell,
for way too many years, has been breaking down the
old twenty two for NFL films, not only during the
season NFL matchups, but also in this draft season going
through all of the prospects. And we've been trying to
take you on a deep dive on this podcast behind
the draft into the war rooms to show you how
(00:46):
teams evaluate prospects and put their boards together and hopefully
the most realistic of ways. And during that quest, we
have brought on some of the people that we think
are the best to talk to that can also help
educate you. And we've got another one that is kind
enough to join us today, Greg McElroy. You can hear him.
You're in Birmingham with Cole Cublic in the morning. It's
to ESPN College Football guys doing a morning show together.
(01:09):
So obviously you're for college football Junkie and you are
in Alabama, make sure that you clicked their show on
because it's as good as it gets for that. And
of course you can hear Greg every Saturday as well, uh,
most recently with Joe Tessa Tour calling college football for
ESPN and he joins US now. And even with all
of that, winning a national championship at Alabama playing the
(01:29):
highest level of high school football in the state of Texas,
his fondest football memories, of course, are with the New
York Jets. Right that that sat to say, Greg, like
when you look back on your football career and you're
really when that cartoon bubble comes out of your head,
your first thoughts go to hanging out with me and
Marty Lyons at the back of the jet charter flight
like lamenting what just went wrong? Yeah, I mean often
(01:53):
referencing what the hell happened in some flights longer than others,
and so we had plenty of time to get into
the weeds. Marty being the Obama guy, so we'd of
course start the conversation cordially by talking about what Bama
did the day before because somewhere or somehow I was
using in our jet game. Usually then became some badness.
(02:16):
That's the good news bad news situation. We always started
with a good Yeah. Twenty twelve New York was was
an interesting spot. We had the a f C West
that year, excusing the NFC West that year might Yeah,
NFC West that year. So we were going on road
trips to Seattle and you know all these other places.
So we had lots of time to commisserate on some
(02:36):
of the shortcomings that was the season. Yeah, then there
was always something to commiserate about. But a guy that
I know you're gonna want to commiserate with is Greg Coseel,
because you know the best part about this podcast Greg
is getting football nerds and junkies together. And Greg McElroy
as a player, I know this did not get the
football out of his system during his playing career, Like
(02:57):
he is every bit the deep dive nerd that you
are about ball. So I'm glad we can get the
two of you together. Well, if played high school football
in Texas and then went to Alabama to play football,
I mean, and I don't think there's two better places
to have in your background. As far as being a
football guy and certainly a quarterback. So yeah, I guess Greg,
the way I'd love to start is, you know, you
you obviously played in the league, but you also now
(03:20):
do a ton of college football, played college football at
the highest level. You know, a word that's thrown around
a lot now, particularly leading up to the draft, as
people say a quarterback has traits. And I always love
to know because no one ever says what those traits are.
They just say, oh, he's got great traits. So when
you look at a quarterback and you do college games,
(03:40):
and obviously you're watching quarterbacks that will go on to
play in the league, and you did play in the league,
how do you see that when you when you think
of a quarterback and you think in your mind, oh,
he's got traits to play in the NFL? What in
your mind having been an NFL quarterback, it's really important. Well, Greg,
and I've I've been around a lot of good ones, right,
I've been around a lot of really good players, have
(04:02):
been around a lot of really good quarterbacks. Have seen
the guys at the college level that have since blossomed
into franchise quarterbacks, and and oftentimes traits they are seldom physical.
I mean, yes, you'll occasionally come across a guy that
transcends the college game because of just how talented they are.
(04:24):
But oftentimes the guy that I've gravitated towards the guys
that I've said, all right, that dude's bound for success.
It's their makeup mentally. And I think right now, and
and obviously Bob can can attest to this, it's harder
than ever to figure out, all right, who are the
guys that love the game, that love the grind, that
(04:44):
loved the prep, that loved the execution on game day.
Who are those guys versus the guys that love what
comes with being the starting quarterback at fill in the
blank university. And I think sometimes it's very difficult in
the era of n I l uh, in the era
of social media, you to differentiate the guys that love
(05:06):
the game for the game's sake and love what comes
with being a star player on a successful team. So
my biggest trait right now, who are the guys that
have a football problem. And what I mean football problem
is they are on the verge of being addicted to
the sport. Doesn't mean that everything in their life has
(05:26):
to take a back seat. That's not the case. Some
of these guys are entering into the league. Doesn't Ritter,
for example, as a beautiful daughter named Laighton. Uh. But
I think there are obviously things that are away from
the field that are of the highest priority. But when
you're in the building, when you are preparing for the
opponent week in and week out, how intense is your preparation?
(05:49):
And some of the guys that are most successful our
borderline crazy when it comes to their preparation. The Peyton
managed that Drew Brees is. I want guys like that,
And if I can identify some of those qualities, I
usually I feel like based on their skill set and
everything else that you can throw into the mix, I
usually can kind of tell whether or not a guy
is gonna be the real deal when I get to
the league. Have you heard anything about some of the
(06:09):
guys in this draft class, some of the names we're
talking about at the top of the draft. I mean,
this is not one of those classic quarterback drafts where
we're gonna see three or four guys come off in
the first you know, five or six picks right where
we may not get a guy taken in the top ten.
Who knows, But do you hear or maybe even with
some of these guys you've covered, I'm sure some of
their college games, do you get a feel that there
(06:32):
are some real football junkies in this draft class of
quarterback the one that is, without question the biggest junkie.
And I've covered them all, I've called several of their games, Bob,
I'm sure you've sat down visited with an awful lot
of them. Um, the one that stands out to me
is Matt Corrall. He is intense as far as his preparation,
(06:54):
his competitiveness, y'all. First game I ever saw him get
extended minutes was back in two thousand nineteen or so,
I call the egg Ball. It feels like almost every year.
The egg Bowl for those that are unaware, is Mississippi
State against Ole Miss. And he had to come off
the bench in favor of the starting quarterback, Jordan's Amy,
who got banged up. And this is garbage time. They're
(07:15):
down by a lot, Mississippi States rolling him pretty good,
and he starts a fight, not not because like I mean,
not because he's a punk, because he was so hyper
intense competitive down four touchdowns at the end of the game,
a fight got started because Matt Correll was talking smack
and like intense and it just got it got kop.
(07:36):
But he didn't that the game was well in hand,
but he wasn't willing to give up. And he's just
wired differently, very intense, very in very focused, almost like
disturbingly intense. I mean, you watch him on a Friday
walk through, and we called his last college game leading
up to the Sugar Bowl, and the Friday walk through
(07:58):
was as crisp and as focused. I mean, he's ripping
guys for not being a lie. I mean, this is
a bowl game when all the people around him are
telling him all it doesn't matter, the bowl games don't matter.
Don't tell Matt Correll that he just loves the game.
He loves to compete. So of the guys that are
being mentioned at the top, he's the one that I've
identified as kind of the guy with a little bit
(08:20):
of the it and has a little stuff to him.
So take it. Of course, Willis Ritter and you know,
Sam Howell, they all have great qualities. I think all
these guys have legitimate flaws too. But if we're looking
at personality traits that I want in my starter, Matt
Correll has some of those traits. Interesting, you know, because
(08:41):
I love what you said. Ultimately you're talking about the process,
and I think that's what it's ultimately about. Because in
the NFL, as you will know, you can't just line
up on Sunday and play. Um, it's all leading up
to that. Not that the game is easy on Sunday,
but as you know, in the NFL, the great quarterbacks
think of the guys for instance, like the Tom Brady's
who's great for a reason, Drew Brees was great for
(09:03):
a res and those guys are two steps ahead of
what's happening. Those guys win, as you know, Greg, before
the balls even snapped of their plays. Obviously, defenses get
coached as well, and there will be a few plays
where hey, the defense wins. But the great ones they
see it in the pre snap phase. They know where
they're going with the football and college football, I don't
(09:25):
think it's like that quite as much as the NFL. No,
it's not at all. I mean, there are offenses and
I can think of several where the head coach will
literally or the offensive coordinator whoever's calling the plays, part
of the signal from the sideline to the field is
where you're gonna throw the football. So it'd be like, hey,
(09:45):
let's go you know circus. Hey, and you give the
X symbol, Well, that means you're throwing to the X
right right so or something something like that. So a
lot of the processing in college football is predetermined or
it's reacted to, based on one specific defender. So it's
(10:07):
r P O based. You put the body, you put
the ball into the belly of the running back. If
that will linebacker commits to the run, well, boom you
throw the slant in right behind him. You're spritting out
to the right. If that corner comes up to attack
you as the quarterback, Boom you throw the corner right
and behind him. You're reading just one defender, and that's
not Yes, there are some reads in the NFL in
(10:30):
which you are keen on one defender, whether it's a
high low read. If he drops back, you're taking the underneath.
If he comes up, you're throwing it right behind him
in the whole. There are some reads like that, But
there are also reads in the NFL that are pure progression,
in which your feet have to talk to you, so
you're five step on rhythm. You're throwing one, you hit,
you're throwing two, you hitch twice, you're throwing three, you
(10:51):
hits three times, you're getting it out to four and
you live to play the next down. So I think
that pure progression. Depending on the style of offense that
you're trying to get into, you have to diagnose and
process a lot more information, which is of can cern
as guys make the transition that we've seen NFL offenses
simplified more so than they once were and NFL coaches
being more willing to adapt to what the player did
(11:14):
well in college. But if you can't get off your
number one, if you can't process quickly, you're gonna have troubles.
And one of the guys that I've seen over the
course of watching his tape and one of the guys
that I saw in the Senior Bowl practices as well,
Malik Willis, he struggles getting off of number one, he
(11:35):
struggles getting from one to two to three, and then
when he does figure out where he's going with the football,
he's very dangerous. But his first instinct is to take
off and to be an athlete with the ball in
his hands, and and that doesn't always work in the NFL.
So that's one of the question marks I have for
him as he makes this transition, because he's going to
(11:55):
have to really improve in that area to become the
best player he's possibly capable of becoming. Greg McElroy with
us here on tapeds Drafts Season with Bobo Schusan and
Greg co Sell. Real quick before we take a break.
You mentioned Malik Willis. You mentioned Matt Corral like a
Kenny Pickett, say, who doesn't maybe have the athletic, crazy
physical talent ceiling that a Willis has, but as a
(12:18):
much more polished quarterback. Sam how who obviously could throw
the deep ball. I'm sure you had his games in college,
but he's undersized. Where do you sort of put these
guys and where you expect them to go? What kind
of success you think they'll have in the NFL? Where
they may if you're a canny picket not have to
be tutored as much, schooled as much football wise as
(12:42):
a Malik Willis will. But if you can really tap
into Malik Willis is a football player, he's just gonna
be able to do things that these other guys can't do.
How about that? Discussion in a war room. Yeah, And
I think that's It's all depends on what what you're
looking for, right If you're if you currently have a
bridge quarterback that can get you two or three more
years of good quality, high level football, then you would
(13:06):
roll the dice on the Malik Willis he has a
higher ceiling. And I remember watching tape coming out on
Patrick Mahomes and now it looks like a slam dunk, right,
Like why did he fall to the tenth pick? You know, Okay, great?
And I remember being infatuated with Patrick Mahomes and saying
he was my favorite quarterback in the draft, but I
(13:26):
also acknowledged there was a sixty chance he could flame
out of the league because he's gonna throw more interceptions
than touchdowns in a four year period. Like I talked
to one of my buddies who was on the staff
at Kansas City on the defensive staff, so saw Mahomes
every day in practice as a rookie, and he goes,
this dude could be the greatest of all time or
be one of the biggest bus we've ever seen. And
he was on the staff because he was pulling things
(13:48):
off and scout team that were just ridiculous, But they
weren't sure. They weren't sure that it was translatable. As
far as what we're looking at with Malik willis he
needs time, and he needs reps, and he needs to
learn how to let his feet talk to him and
learn I think the nuances of playing the position. Right now,
(14:10):
he's a great athlete, a great athlete. He's very accurate
when his feet are set. However, his feet aren't set
that often. He's very accurate when he's on the move.
The problem is he gets on the move too quickly.
You know, there's just things that he can do a
little bit better. But if I can give him a
year or two where I have a bridge situation, I
(14:32):
have a guy that can at least keep us afloat,
maybe even get us of the playoffs, and then two
years from now Malik can ultimately take over if he
proves that he's capable, then we're cooking with gas. I mean.
The best example to me is the situation going on
in Green Bay. Like you have a first round pick
that has now had the opportunity to sit behind one
(14:53):
of the greatest to ever do it, hone in his
skill set a little bit and then inevitably, at some
point he's going to get a chance to be the guy,
whether it's in Green Bay or somewhere else. And I
think for Malik willis for him to be the best
possible player that he can be. He needs time and
he needs to rip, and he needs to worry about
Malik willis, not worry about the opposing team that he's
(15:15):
going to be playing against, because when you're a starter,
you're not focused on your fundamentals. You're not focused on
trying to tighten things up or improve. You're focused on, Okay,
when they're in third down five, that's the defense that
they're gonna run. Here's the blitz is that they might bring.
How do I attack that defense on third and five?
You're not thinking about yourself. Yourself should already be a
(15:36):
finished product at that point. We're thinking about what they
might do. So I think he just needs some time,
and I think if given time, he has the highest
ceiling of anyone else in this draft. Great talking football
with Greg mackail roy. But we told you is a
football nerds dream. He is right. It is so good.
We're gonna come back and continue to probe what's there.
We'll take a look at the players that are going
(15:57):
to get their names called what it's like for those
players to have to wait on draft day to get
their names called as well. Greg mckael with us It's
TAPEDS Draft Season BABA shows Greg Costell and Greg McElroy
back here on TAPEDS Draft Season, jumping right back into
it a week away from the draft and Greg, you
obviously had to wait until the last day of the
(16:18):
draft to hear your name called. You finally heard it called.
What was it like? What's the weight like? If you're
a guy that thinks he's going to go earlier in
this draft and he kind of have to sit there
and wait, what are those emotions like? Well, it's pretty agonizing. Um,
I didn't have expectations of going in the first two days.
I had expectations of going Day three, but I had
expectations of going early on Day three, so to wait,
(16:40):
and I believe I went picked two oh eight. So
I probably saw, you know, a hundred and fifty picks
before I was called, or no, not quite that. That's
terrible math, but whatever it was, it was a lot
a hundred and so odd picks, hundred fifteen picks or
so before my name got called. It was it was unfortunate.
It was disappointing. The thing that's hardest, especially when you
(17:01):
start getting into the later rounds, is seeing guys go
off the board at your position that stink, you know,
that's the worst part. And like you've seen him, Like
there was one guy in particular that I've seen throw,
had seen him play and it was very unimpressed with him.
And he ended up getting drafted way before me because
(17:24):
why because he was big. He'd never played a snap
in the league, but he was big and he looked
the part more so than I did. So those are
the most frustrating things. Um. I of course ended up
going to an amazing situation for quarterbacks, the Jets. Uh
So I was thrilled to end up going where I went,
um to have the chancellor from brew and to be
with Mark, who was one of my buddies. We had
(17:45):
the same quarterback coach growing up. But um, for those
that are expecting to hear their name called in the
first five or ten picks and they end up getting
their name called, you know, pick thirty, it's not always
a terrible situation. There's so much about your success is
about where you go and unfortunately for UM, they go
to horrible situations and they wash out of the lead
(18:06):
rather quickly. Others go to great situations and they can
have a decent amount of success for some time before
they're expected to carry the load. So uh, I always
think it's an awful feeling to fall. But you know,
sometimes God's greatest gifts are in unanswered prayers. Well, you
might be giving up in guaranteed money as a draft pick.
(18:29):
You might be rewarded with a better supporting cast, and
I personally would rather have the better supporting cast so
I can win and have that crazy guaranteed money in
the first contract. Interesting, you know that what you were
talking about in the previous section really struck me about.
You know, you're talking about Malik Willis, But what struck
me about it was really the balance between learning how
(18:49):
to play the position and then learning how to attack
defenses and understanding defenses. And there's a balance there, especially
when quarterbacks have to play early, because when they come
in early, they're not going to be that familiar with
all the details and complexities of NFL defense. That takes time. UM,
(19:09):
And and obviously, as you know, Greg, defensive coordinators do
a lot of things in the NFL, and you get
the third and long and they've got the tactical advantage,
and you've got to try to win when they have
the tactical advantage. And as you said, you're not thinking
about your technique, your mechanics, you're fundamentals. You're just thinking
about trying to make a play because it's third and
eight and you just want to make a play. And
(19:30):
then you look at the guys, you know, the Tom
Brady's of the world, who could never make a play
by running around, but yet the mechanics, the fundamentals were perfect,
seemingly on every single throw. And sometimes I think that's
getting lost in the translation with this new emphasis and
new focus on the fact that guys can run around
and make plays and then they miss some easy ones
because their fundamentals aren't good enough. Yeah, and I think
(19:53):
that's that's the balance, right. You have to the the
off schedule place, the uncoachable place, right, Like that's what
a lot of people always describe. And the coach. If
you can find an O C that will call a
perfect game, let me know, because I don't know one.
I've never seen one. It's never happened shoot you laugh.
(20:14):
But like, I'm sure Brian Schottenheimer thought he called a
perfect game or two, but there were a few times
in which she probably you know, didn't have a perfect
game call. I say that tongue in cheek, but like,
there are several examples in which the offensive quarter makes
an awful play call. It's just it happens. But what
a quarterback like Malik Willis can do for you is
(20:37):
that even in spite of the defense winning before the snap,
they can still win because it becomes a matchup situation
against maybe someone in the open field, or extending a play,
buying just a little bit more time. I think there's
a little bit too much of an emphasis on that
right now, because coaches want the quarterback that can get
(21:00):
you out of jail and make you right even when
the coach was wrong. You just have more you have
more margin for error as a coach if you have
a guy that can create. But personally, if I'm a coach,
I would love to have a quarterback that's extension of me. No,
every single time I call the play, here's why he's
calling the play. Here's how we're going to execute it
(21:22):
based on the defense that we get in the unexpected
situation in which we get pressure, here's our answer. If
we get a specific look, here's our check to it,
here's our audible whatever it may be. So I think
that there's a there's a balance there. But it does
feel like organizations are trending in the direction of finding
the guy that can maybe create on their own and
(21:45):
maybe make the sand lot play where they run around
to do something spectacular as opposed to win methodically by
you know, going with a hot route or a sight
adjustment or whatever it may be. So I think it's
all about what the organization's philosophies are and if you
want to rely more on a letticism totally to get that.
But I certainly last I checked Tom Brady still playing
(22:07):
in an m v P caliber. Aaron Rodgers is the
m v P. Like those guys that can still win
from the pocket and that are an extension of their
play color. Uh, those are still the guys that I
think have the most consistent success. Yeah, they're not bad.
Those guys are. All Right, it's been a while. Greg
McElroy with us here about Tape's draft season. All right,
let's get to this draft a bit. But we have
you for a few more minutes. We talked about the
(22:28):
quarterbacks and Willison pick It, Matt Corral and whatnot. But
I mean, you're right in the middle of SEC country.
You call SEC games at a regular basis for ESPN,
you also call other conferences. You're hosting a morning show
with col Cublic, like in the backyard hotbed of college
football in America. So what are your strongest inclinations Maybe
(22:49):
some of the guys that you think people you know
should be jumping at from the world of the SEC.
How you think the top ten is going to shake out?
What do you think about this draft? Here? Here's what
I find comical and and I look at the NFL
Draft and all because i'm, you know, a product of ESPN,
I'll use Keiper and mcshay's big board for the time being,
(23:10):
so I'll just go off of that. And I see
Aiden Hutchinson at number one as the number one overall
player on the big board, right, And I'm sure you
saw him in person. Very impressed by what Aiden Hutchinson
did throughout the course of his college career, most notably
and his most recent season. I thought he was great,
But there was never at any point any indication from
(23:33):
his play on the field last year that would warrant
him going number one overall. Like just just being completely honest.
I watched, say, for instance, Will Anderson at Alabama, who
does not have draft eligibility, and I saw Will Anderson
literally beat Mississippi State by himself. The guy had like
(23:55):
four sacks, six tackles for loss. I mean, was an
absolute dominant force. There was never a point in which
I looked at Aiden Hudson's said, oh dude, that guy,
we better not do anything in his direction because he
will eat our lunch. I never felt that way. So
the fact that he's garnering consideration to go number one
overall is mind blowing to me. Like I, I I don't
(24:17):
think anyone in this draft stands out as a bona
fide number one overall type of guy. Like Trayvon Walker,
he wasn't even the best player along his own defensive front.
He might have the highest ceiling, but he wasn't the
best player wide receiver. Garrett Wilson unbelievably explosive, but at
(24:38):
times he took a backseat to Chris Olavey, uh Kyle
Hamilton's he's a safety. I think he's great, but he's
a safety, Like, how can I justify take in a
non premier position with the first overall pick? I can't
left tackle? To me, I think it could give Kana
is probably the most impressive guy I've seen on tape
(25:00):
all year at left tackle, and there's arguments as to
whether or not he he is even going to project
into being a Day one starter and things like that.
I mean, I I just don't know where you go
because to me, the guy that's been talking about as
the number one overall pick, I can't tell you a
single difference between the number one guy according to Kuiper
(25:21):
and mcshae and Aidan Hutchinson and the guy that's number
twenty four, who's George karloftis from Purdue. To me, there's
somewhat interchangeable. So if I'm attacking this draft, I am
thrilled that I'm the New York Jets with four picks
in the top fifty, with two picks in the top ten.
I don't want the number one overall pick because I
(25:42):
don't think there's a guy worthy of the number one
overall pick. But I like the depth and I think
that there's a lot of really good players that will
be plug and play starters in the top forty prospects,
But how you would kind of sort them out one
through forty, I have a very difficult time doing so.
Some of the guys I love the most Tyler Leonard
(26:02):
Baumbs center from Iowa. I think he's incredible. I've so
enjoyed watching him play for the last several years. Derek
Stingley at l s U was an absolute lockdown corner.
I think he's obviously had some issues the last couple
of years as far as injuries are concerned, but I
think those were partly because I had just how good
he was as a true freshman there in twenty nineteen.
(26:23):
I love Garrett Wilson. I think wide receiver shockingly enough
has become a premier position. So if I can get
guys that can run and jump and create matchups, you
can play him inside and out. I love the idea
of his versatility. So I mean, those are kind of
three of the guys that I feel like are a
little bit further on the draft board than they probably
should be. And you can make a strong argument that
(26:45):
any of those three were just as good as Aidan
Hutchinson at their best. This season. I kind of agree
with you, by the way, Greg, I think it's a
tough year to have the top two or three picks
in the draft, but yet there I think there's a
lot of depth at certain positions. Let me ask you
about one guy who I'm sure you're familiar with, because
I personally think that he's the best wide receiver prospect
(27:06):
in this draft. And that's and I don't know him personally,
so you may know more about him. I think George
Pickens is the best receiver prospect in this draft when
you just look at the talent level, he's terrific and
you're probably getting a bit of a steel on him, uh,
just because of the injury last year and the lack
of availability. So I think he's phenomenal um and has
(27:29):
a real high ceiling and could become a real guy.
I I for one, would not be in a real
hurry to start spending a ton of draft capital at
wide receiver. This is as deep a wide receiver draft
as I can recall. Because you reference George Pickens, well,
I have just an infatuation with Treylon Burke's Arkansas who
took over several games, including a game against Alabama, throughout
(27:53):
the course of last year. I mean we're talking Drake
London is a monster. Christian Watson from North Dakota State
is a monster. I mean, you can go eight, nine,
ten deep at wide receiver and every single one of
those dudes could be a Day one starter. And we're
talking about really, this is as good a wide receiver
draft as I can remember, with immediate impact players that
(28:16):
offer versatility like Drake London to me is Mike Evans reincarnate.
They are so similar to me coming out. And I
think Traylon Burke's, while I'm disappointed with his overall speed,
I thought he'd run better. He's kind of one of
those guys that just want to burn the tape on,
Like just give him the ball in space and or
give him the ball in a contested catch situation. He's
(28:38):
going to win that matchup. The guy has enormous hands
and has done a really good job with relatively inaccurate
quarterbacks the last couple of years from Arkansas. So I
just think this receiver draft, y'all is is ten plus
and I am really anxious to see just how quickly
the run starts with wide receivers, because if it starts
(28:59):
really early. Say the Jets take one at four or
whatever it is, how quickly does the second one come off,
and then the third one come off, and then so
on and so forth. So I think it's a really
deep group and one that I wouldn't be in a
real rush to make a run on because I think
you can find a guy in the second round. It's
probably not that much worse than a guy that got
drafted in the top five or six. We could talk
(29:21):
ball with you up until Draft night, that's how good
this has been. Can I tell you guys that the
one guy that no one's talking about that I just want,
I don't want to have like and I told you
so a moment ten years from now. And this guy
is like a perennial All Pro Jalen Petrie from Baylor.
Just just remember that name. He doesn't look the part,
but he's got some Honey Badger qualities. Like he reminds
(29:43):
me so much of Tyrone Matthew and of the players
that are going to come off the board day two.
He's my favorite. Him and Logan Hall from Houston are
the two guys that I am like obsessed with as well.
I haven't yet, but logan Hall, You're gonna love more
than let's Wyatt, who is getting you know everybody's talking about.
(30:05):
I think Hall is a way better prospect. I'm glad
we're on the same page because I know I'm in.
I'm in. I'm in very very good situation. If you
if you're seeing what I'm seeing, I'm not seeing. I'm
not seeing ghosts here because All to me is a
really good prospect. He's he lay inside and now he's huge.
He got great length. Like I think that dude's a
(30:26):
get ready. He's gonna be a handful for someone's gonna
get in the second round and be like, oh my gosh,
what do we just stumble into? I agree with you
can be said, are you in heaven talking football with
this guy? What? More? Greg? At some point here for
two knuckleheads from Jersey, thanks for slipping a y'all in
there for us as well, like that that's like this
(30:49):
like an official stamp that this is a real football podcast.
We appreciate that. I should have said use guys or
something like that. I don't know, like use guys or
something like that. I'm sure works. I should have dropped
to forget about it in there you know about it.
You've got a little bit of that still in your
from your days up here. Greg, You're the best. Thanks
a million, see you guys. Thanks all right. That's Greg
McElroy who not only if you're in Birmingham you can
(31:12):
hear him mornings with Cole Cublic uh doing radio down there,
but also you will see him every Saturday doing college
football games as well for ESPN, and he will be
bouncing in and out of Sports Center and get up
and all the ESPN shows uh talking about college football
and the drafts are straight ahead. Some thoughts on some
of the gems that try Greg dropped, and we will
wrap up this edition of Tapeds Draft Season. We're back
(31:36):
on tapeds trap Season. One week away from the draft,
Bob was shoos and Greg Costell how much phone was
that talking football? I feel like I could talk to
Greg McElroy for about a week and and not stop
and miss all the meals and it wouldn't even bother.
I barely scratch the surface, right, I mean, how many
more guys could we have talked about? How many more
teams and philosophies and concepts, and you know, maybe if
(31:57):
we're doing this again next year. We need to get
him on even early in the in the process, just
to talk conceptual quarterback play. Even I loved all that
about the quarterback. Yeah, I mean, that's one of my takeaways.
Obviously we can talk about a few other guys as
well that he mentioned, But one of the takeaways I
thought was that balance between being an extension of the
(32:19):
play caller and running the structure of the offense as
often as you possibly can. Obviously he said there'll be
some plays that you can't, but basically staying within the
structure and executing the offense versus this new emphasis on
let's run around and make some plays, let's play off schedule.
A lot of coaches have now gravitated to more than ever.
(32:42):
And I love the mahomes uh discussion because I spoke
to a lot of coaches Bob that year at the
Combine who basically said, Hey, we know this guy is
super talented, but I worked sixty and eighteen hours a
day putting in my offense and I want him to
execute it. I don't want him to just run around. Now,
this conversation seems silly today given what Patrick Mahomes is
(33:04):
accomplished in the league, but believe me. Back then there
was the reason he was the tenth pick in the
draft and not a unanimous number one pick. But you know,
that's the concern is that you play outside of structure.
There's too much randomness to that. A great example though,
of something that you know is going to go on
inside war rooms. Patrick Mahomes was probably an internally debated
(33:30):
prospect as polarizing as it gets some seeing the natural
gifts and and Malik Willis will probably have that same
kind of a polarizing debate. You'll see the gifts, you'll
see the talent, you'll see the ceiling. Some coaches or gms,
we can get that out of him. Some coaches and
gms might be like, look way too much of a
learning curve to succeed in the NFL. You might not
(33:51):
know until you get him under your roof. And even
listening to Greg break down some of the prospects, he
sees what you don't see necessarily in a Drake London, right,
Like we talked about Drake London back in one of
our first episodes of this podcast. We talked about the
great wide receiver prospects there were in this draft, and
you didn't think that he was, you know, a Mike
(34:13):
Evans clone Ornet. But but that will also be a
great example of an internal debate teams will have. I
can tell you for a fact, Bob, from talking to
some GMS that that conversation is going on right now.
I did not see Drake London that way, which, by
the way, doesn't mean I don't think he'll be a
good NFL player, you know, because people always jumped to
extremes as you well know, you know, being in the
(34:34):
business we're in. I did not see him as a
Mike Evans, who many have compared him to, as Greg McElroy,
who's obviously incredibly intelligent. And I've always felt that reasonable
people can disagree about this and that's fine. Maybe I
can then learn something as well. But when I watched
Drake London and I watched his tape from one, I
did not see a Mike Evans or even a Mike
(34:55):
Williams type receiver. I saw more of a big slot
type receiver who I think could be really dynamite in
I But I did not see him as a boundary
X receiver, meaning the single receiver to the short side
of the field. Now, obviously he can play above the rim.
He's got great hands, great body control, makes contested catches,
but I just did not see him having that kind
(35:17):
of explosiveness as a mover. Maybe I'll be wrong, believe me.
I hope I am, because I love when players come
in the league and they're great. That's what we always want.
You want these young players to come in and be great.
And now we've got me so excited. One guy I've
not seen yet, and I have the list of like
five guys who are must seize before the draft that
I just haven't gotten to yet, is Jalen Petrie, the
(35:38):
safety from Baylor. Now that he mentioned that, I cannot wait.
In fact, that might be my afternoon's activity is looking
at Jalen Pietrie. Well. I have a feeling his name
might get brought up next week as we had towards
the drafts uh. I think the other kind of thirty
thousand foot view of this draft we've talked a lot
about it certainly reinforces what we have said during this
(36:00):
podcast about this draft as a whole, not a great
year to have maybe the number one or number two
or number three pick, because there is a salary level
and a financial commitment that goes along with the higher
the pick, the more you have to pay. It's just
the way it works. That's the salary scale. But if
you feel like you can get basically the same player
(36:23):
impact was at ten, eleven, twelve that you can get
at one, two, or three, that's a huge advantage to
a team having a tenth, eleventh, or twelfth pick, because
you're not paying the eleventh pick nearly what you're paying
the first or second pick. Do you agree, I mean,
is the top fifteen kind of that top tier in
this draft that deep, that even that balanced, that you're
(36:47):
still going to get a similar talent, say if you're
picking eighth, and beyond that, if you're picking and say
the top three or four. I do. In fact, I
felt this way, but it was also echoed by conversations
I've had that in an ideal world, someone like Aidan
Hutchinson would probably be a top ten or top fifteen pick.
But here's the question. Because this is the draft, Bob,
(37:09):
you know, these are the players that are available in
this draft, so you have to draft. So if we
all know that Aidan Hutchinson isn't necessarily a guy you
look at and automatically say, Wow, that guy's a number
one pick in any draft. So let's say you draft
him and he turns out to be a ten year,
real quality player, but not a Hall of Famer in
(37:29):
this draft, wouldn't you say then that you did really well? Sure,
once things happen and guys play, everybody is a genius
when you have access to the results, Bob, As we know,
when you have access to the results, then it's easy.
But you don't have access to the results. Now you've
got a draft based on your process of evaluation. So
if you draft Aden Hutchinson and he becomes a really
(37:51):
good ten year player, not t J. Watt, but a
really good ten year player, then you've done well in
this given draft. Ye. And it's just like what Bill
Parcels always says about players or quarterbacks, right, we can
only use what the call just send us. Well, if
you're a general manager, you can only draft who's in
this draft. Someone has to pick one and some player
has to go one, and that's just the way it goes.
(38:11):
There are years where there is the transcendent, you know,
Peyton Manning type talented quarterback. There are years where there's
a blend of players and debate as to who should
go first, second, and so on and so forth. We
happen to be in one of those blend years, but
for for our purposes, makes it even more interesting to
talk about. Greg mentioned Matt Correll, who you know and
(38:31):
who he knows, I'm sure, and loves his competitiveness, and
he stood out to him. There's certain things about Matt
Correll that are separate from his competitiveness when you watch
tape that I guarantee will concern some offensive coaches. And
I'll tell you one thing which I noticed immediately, and
I had it a coach that I know well, a
quarterback coach. We talked about this. When I watched Matt Correll,
(38:54):
I thought to myself, God, this guy's five eleven or
six feet and then he came in at six one
in five eighths. And the reason, Bob I thought he
was five eleven six ft when I watched his tape
was because he throws from a very low angle. He's
got a snap delivery, a very compact, quick delivery, which
is very good, and obviously the ball comes out extremely well,
(39:14):
but it comes out low, and I thought watching him, Wow,
this guy is really small and so I wonder if
in the NFL, if he's going to make those between
the hash between the numbers throws that are more quick
rhythm type throws. I'm not talking about deeper drops. I'm
talking about the quick rhythm throws that have become so
much more a part of the NFL game because he
(39:36):
throws as if he's five eleven or six ft, not
as if he's six one in five eights. Well, when
we come back next week, we're gonna have those kinds
of conversations because the hey will be in the barn right,
teams will have their board set, so we're gonna talk
to you really about I think what your final analysis
is of certain position groups. Maybe the top guys in
(39:57):
this draft will just be a few days away from
teams calling the names. When we come back next Tuesday
and drop our next episode, we'll have a busy week.
Will also be joining you after the first round, wrapping
up tape heeds draft season. Finally, the draft is upon
us and we'll get after it. We come back next Tuesday,
So please rate, subscribe, download, tell your friends about it.
(40:18):
If you get a football nerd in your life that
wants to get ready for the Draft. Hopefully we've done
a good job of preparing you for exactly that, and
we will come back next Tuesday with another edition of
tap Heeds Draft Season.
Tape Heeds. It's a production of I Heart Media and
the NFL. Only a week away from the two thousand
twenty two NFL Draft. Thank goodness, we are officially in
the home stretch. This is Tape Heeds Draft Season. Bobo
shoes In a longtime radio voice of the New York Jets,
also played by play guy for ESPN College Football for
(00:25):
probably too many years, which means that Greg cos Sell,
for way too many years, has been breaking down the
old twenty two for NFL films, not only during the
season NFL matchups, but also in this draft season going
through all of the prospects. And we've been trying to
take you on a deep dive on this podcast behind
the draft into the war rooms to show you how
(00:46):
teams evaluate prospects and put their boards together and hopefully
the most realistic of ways. And during that quest, we
have brought on some of the people that we think
are the best to talk to that can also help
educate you. And we've got another one that is kind
enough to join us today, Greg McElroy. You can hear him.
You're in Birmingham with Cole Cublic in the morning. It's
to ESPN College Football guys doing a morning show together.
(01:09):
So obviously you're for college football Junkie and you are
in Alabama, make sure that you clicked their show on
because it's as good as it gets for that. And
of course you can hear Greg every Saturday as well, uh,
most recently with Joe Tessa Tour calling college football for
ESPN and he joins US now. And even with all
of that, winning a national championship at Alabama playing the
(01:29):
highest level of high school football in the state of Texas,
his fondest football memories, of course, are with the New
York Jets. Right that that sat to say, Greg, like
when you look back on your football career and you're
really when that cartoon bubble comes out of your head,
your first thoughts go to hanging out with me and
Marty Lyons at the back of the jet charter flight
like lamenting what just went wrong? Yeah, I mean often
(01:53):
referencing what the hell happened in some flights longer than others,
and so we had plenty of time to get into
the weeds. Marty being the Obama guy, so we'd of
course start the conversation cordially by talking about what Bama
did the day before because somewhere or somehow I was
using in our jet game. Usually then became some badness.
(02:16):
That's the good news bad news situation. We always started
with a good Yeah. Twenty twelve New York was was
an interesting spot. We had the a f C West
that year, excusing the NFC West that year might Yeah,
NFC West that year. So we were going on road
trips to Seattle and you know all these other places.
So we had lots of time to commisserate on some
(02:36):
of the shortcomings that was the season. Yeah, then there
was always something to commiserate about. But a guy that
I know you're gonna want to commiserate with is Greg Coseel,
because you know the best part about this podcast Greg
is getting football nerds and junkies together. And Greg McElroy
as a player, I know this did not get the
football out of his system during his playing career, Like
(02:57):
he is every bit the deep dive nerd that you
are about ball. So I'm glad we can get the
two of you together. Well, if played high school football
in Texas and then went to Alabama to play football,
I mean, and I don't think there's two better places
to have in your background. As far as being a
football guy and certainly a quarterback. So yeah, I guess Greg,
the way I'd love to start is, you know, you
you obviously played in the league, but you also now
(03:20):
do a ton of college football, played college football at
the highest level. You know, a word that's thrown around
a lot now, particularly leading up to the draft, as
people say a quarterback has traits. And I always love
to know because no one ever says what those traits are.
They just say, oh, he's got great traits. So when
you look at a quarterback and you do college games,
(03:40):
and obviously you're watching quarterbacks that will go on to
play in the league, and you did play in the league,
how do you see that when you when you think
of a quarterback and you think in your mind, oh,
he's got traits to play in the NFL? What in
your mind having been an NFL quarterback, it's really important. Well, Greg,
and I've I've been around a lot of good ones, right,
I've been around a lot of really good players, have
(04:02):
been around a lot of really good quarterbacks. Have seen
the guys at the college level that have since blossomed
into franchise quarterbacks, and and oftentimes traits they are seldom physical.
I mean, yes, you'll occasionally come across a guy that
transcends the college game because of just how talented they are.
(04:24):
But oftentimes the guy that I've gravitated towards the guys
that I've said, all right, that dude's bound for success.
It's their makeup mentally. And I think right now, and
and obviously Bob can can attest to this, it's harder
than ever to figure out, all right, who are the
guys that love the game, that love the grind, that
(04:44):
loved the prep, that loved the execution on game day.
Who are those guys versus the guys that love what
comes with being the starting quarterback at fill in the
blank university. And I think sometimes it's very difficult in
the era of n I l uh, in the era
of social media, you to differentiate the guys that love
(05:06):
the game for the game's sake and love what comes
with being a star player on a successful team. So
my biggest trait right now, who are the guys that
have a football problem. And what I mean football problem
is they are on the verge of being addicted to
the sport. Doesn't mean that everything in their life has
(05:26):
to take a back seat. That's not the case. Some
of these guys are entering into the league. Doesn't Ritter,
for example, as a beautiful daughter named Laighton. Uh. But
I think there are obviously things that are away from
the field that are of the highest priority. But when
you're in the building, when you are preparing for the
opponent week in and week out, how intense is your preparation?
(05:49):
And some of the guys that are most successful our
borderline crazy when it comes to their preparation. The Peyton
managed that Drew Brees is. I want guys like that,
And if I can identify some of those qualities, I
usually I feel like based on their skill set and
everything else that you can throw into the mix, I
usually can kind of tell whether or not a guy
is gonna be the real deal when I get to
the league. Have you heard anything about some of the
(06:09):
guys in this draft class, some of the names we're
talking about at the top of the draft. I mean,
this is not one of those classic quarterback drafts where
we're gonna see three or four guys come off in
the first you know, five or six picks right where
we may not get a guy taken in the top ten.
Who knows, But do you hear or maybe even with
some of these guys you've covered, I'm sure some of
their college games, do you get a feel that there
(06:32):
are some real football junkies in this draft class of
quarterback the one that is, without question the biggest junkie.
And I've covered them all, I've called several of their games, Bob,
I'm sure you've sat down visited with an awful lot
of them. Um, the one that stands out to me
is Matt Corrall. He is intense as far as his preparation,
(06:54):
his competitiveness, y'all. First game I ever saw him get
extended minutes was back in two thousand nineteen or so,
I call the egg Ball. It feels like almost every year.
The egg Bowl for those that are unaware, is Mississippi
State against Ole Miss. And he had to come off
the bench in favor of the starting quarterback, Jordan's Amy,
who got banged up. And this is garbage time. They're
(07:15):
down by a lot, Mississippi States rolling him pretty good,
and he starts a fight, not not because like I mean,
not because he's a punk, because he was so hyper
intense competitive down four touchdowns at the end of the game,
a fight got started because Matt Correll was talking smack
and like intense and it just got it got kop.
(07:36):
But he didn't that the game was well in hand,
but he wasn't willing to give up. And he's just
wired differently, very intense, very in very focused, almost like
disturbingly intense. I mean, you watch him on a Friday
walk through, and we called his last college game leading
up to the Sugar Bowl, and the Friday walk through
(07:58):
was as crisp and as focused. I mean, he's ripping
guys for not being a lie. I mean, this is
a bowl game when all the people around him are
telling him all it doesn't matter, the bowl games don't matter.
Don't tell Matt Correll that he just loves the game.
He loves to compete. So of the guys that are
being mentioned at the top, he's the one that I've
identified as kind of the guy with a little bit
(08:20):
of the it and has a little stuff to him.
So take it. Of course, Willis Ritter and you know,
Sam Howell, they all have great qualities. I think all
these guys have legitimate flaws too. But if we're looking
at personality traits that I want in my starter, Matt
Correll has some of those traits. Interesting, you know, because
(08:41):
I love what you said. Ultimately you're talking about the process,
and I think that's what it's ultimately about. Because in
the NFL, as you will know, you can't just line
up on Sunday and play. Um, it's all leading up
to that. Not that the game is easy on Sunday,
but as you know, in the NFL, the great quarterbacks
think of the guys for instance, like the Tom Brady's
who's great for a reason, Drew Brees was great for
(09:03):
a res and those guys are two steps ahead of
what's happening. Those guys win, as you know, Greg, before
the balls even snapped of their plays. Obviously, defenses get
coached as well, and there will be a few plays
where hey, the defense wins. But the great ones they
see it in the pre snap phase. They know where
they're going with the football and college football, I don't
(09:25):
think it's like that quite as much as the NFL. No,
it's not at all. I mean, there are offenses and
I can think of several where the head coach will
literally or the offensive coordinator whoever's calling the plays, part
of the signal from the sideline to the field is
where you're gonna throw the football. So it'd be like, hey,
(09:45):
let's go you know circus. Hey, and you give the
X symbol, Well, that means you're throwing to the X
right right so or something something like that. So a
lot of the processing in college football is predetermined or
it's reacted to, based on one specific defender. So it's
(10:07):
r P O based. You put the body, you put
the ball into the belly of the running back. If
that will linebacker commits to the run, well, boom you
throw the slant in right behind him. You're spritting out
to the right. If that corner comes up to attack
you as the quarterback, Boom you throw the corner right
and behind him. You're reading just one defender, and that's
not Yes, there are some reads in the NFL in
(10:30):
which you are keen on one defender, whether it's a
high low read. If he drops back, you're taking the underneath.
If he comes up, you're throwing it right behind him
in the whole. There are some reads like that, But
there are also reads in the NFL that are pure progression,
in which your feet have to talk to you, so
you're five step on rhythm. You're throwing one, you hit,
you're throwing two, you hitch twice, you're throwing three, you
(10:51):
hits three times, you're getting it out to four and
you live to play the next down. So I think
that pure progression. Depending on the style of offense that
you're trying to get into, you have to diagnose and
process a lot more information, which is of can cern
as guys make the transition that we've seen NFL offenses
simplified more so than they once were and NFL coaches
being more willing to adapt to what the player did
(11:14):
well in college. But if you can't get off your
number one, if you can't process quickly, you're gonna have troubles.
And one of the guys that I've seen over the
course of watching his tape and one of the guys
that I saw in the Senior Bowl practices as well,
Malik Willis, he struggles getting off of number one, he
(11:35):
struggles getting from one to two to three, and then
when he does figure out where he's going with the football,
he's very dangerous. But his first instinct is to take
off and to be an athlete with the ball in
his hands, and and that doesn't always work in the NFL.
So that's one of the question marks I have for
him as he makes this transition, because he's going to
(11:55):
have to really improve in that area to become the
best player he's possibly capable of becoming. Greg McElroy with
us here on tapeds Drafts Season with Bobo Schusan and
Greg co Sell. Real quick before we take a break.
You mentioned Malik Willis. You mentioned Matt Corral like a
Kenny Pickett, say, who doesn't maybe have the athletic, crazy
physical talent ceiling that a Willis has, but as a
(12:18):
much more polished quarterback. Sam how who obviously could throw
the deep ball. I'm sure you had his games in college,
but he's undersized. Where do you sort of put these
guys and where you expect them to go? What kind
of success you think they'll have in the NFL? Where
they may if you're a canny picket not have to
be tutored as much, schooled as much football wise as
(12:42):
a Malik Willis will. But if you can really tap
into Malik Willis is a football player, he's just gonna
be able to do things that these other guys can't do.
How about that? Discussion in a war room. Yeah, And
I think that's It's all depends on what what you're
looking for, right If you're if you currently have a
bridge quarterback that can get you two or three more
years of good quality, high level football, then you would
(13:06):
roll the dice on the Malik Willis he has a
higher ceiling. And I remember watching tape coming out on
Patrick Mahomes and now it looks like a slam dunk, right,
Like why did he fall to the tenth pick? You know, Okay, great?
And I remember being infatuated with Patrick Mahomes and saying
he was my favorite quarterback in the draft, but I
(13:26):
also acknowledged there was a sixty chance he could flame
out of the league because he's gonna throw more interceptions
than touchdowns in a four year period. Like I talked
to one of my buddies who was on the staff
at Kansas City on the defensive staff, so saw Mahomes
every day in practice as a rookie, and he goes,
this dude could be the greatest of all time or
be one of the biggest bus we've ever seen. And
he was on the staff because he was pulling things
(13:48):
off and scout team that were just ridiculous, But they
weren't sure. They weren't sure that it was translatable. As
far as what we're looking at with Malik willis he
needs time, and he needs reps, and he needs to
learn how to let his feet talk to him and
learn I think the nuances of playing the position. Right now,
(14:10):
he's a great athlete, a great athlete. He's very accurate
when his feet are set. However, his feet aren't set
that often. He's very accurate when he's on the move.
The problem is he gets on the move too quickly.
You know, there's just things that he can do a
little bit better. But if I can give him a
year or two where I have a bridge situation, I
(14:32):
have a guy that can at least keep us afloat,
maybe even get us of the playoffs, and then two
years from now Malik can ultimately take over if he
proves that he's capable, then we're cooking with gas. I mean.
The best example to me is the situation going on
in Green Bay. Like you have a first round pick
that has now had the opportunity to sit behind one
(14:53):
of the greatest to ever do it, hone in his
skill set a little bit and then inevitably, at some
point he's going to get a chance to be the guy,
whether it's in Green Bay or somewhere else. And I
think for Malik willis for him to be the best
possible player that he can be. He needs time and
he needs to rip, and he needs to worry about
Malik willis, not worry about the opposing team that he's
(15:15):
going to be playing against, because when you're a starter,
you're not focused on your fundamentals. You're not focused on
trying to tighten things up or improve. You're focused on, Okay,
when they're in third down five, that's the defense that
they're gonna run. Here's the blitz is that they might bring.
How do I attack that defense on third and five?
You're not thinking about yourself. Yourself should already be a
(15:36):
finished product at that point. We're thinking about what they
might do. So I think he just needs some time,
and I think if given time, he has the highest
ceiling of anyone else in this draft. Great talking football
with Greg mackail roy. But we told you is a
football nerds dream. He is right. It is so good.
We're gonna come back and continue to probe what's there.
We'll take a look at the players that are going
(15:57):
to get their names called what it's like for those
players to have to wait on draft day to get
their names called as well. Greg mckael with us It's
TAPEDS Draft Season BABA shows Greg Costell and Greg McElroy
back here on TAPEDS Draft Season, jumping right back into
it a week away from the draft and Greg, you
obviously had to wait until the last day of the
(16:18):
draft to hear your name called. You finally heard it called.
What was it like? What's the weight like? If you're
a guy that thinks he's going to go earlier in
this draft and he kind of have to sit there
and wait, what are those emotions like? Well, it's pretty agonizing. Um,
I didn't have expectations of going in the first two days.
I had expectations of going Day three, but I had
expectations of going early on Day three, so to wait,
(16:40):
and I believe I went picked two oh eight. So
I probably saw, you know, a hundred and fifty picks
before I was called, or no, not quite that. That's
terrible math, but whatever it was, it was a lot
a hundred and so odd picks, hundred fifteen picks or
so before my name got called. It was it was unfortunate.
It was disappointing. The thing that's hardest, especially when you
(17:01):
start getting into the later rounds, is seeing guys go
off the board at your position that stink, you know,
that's the worst part. And like you've seen him, Like
there was one guy in particular that I've seen throw,
had seen him play and it was very unimpressed with him.
And he ended up getting drafted way before me because
(17:24):
why because he was big. He'd never played a snap
in the league, but he was big and he looked
the part more so than I did. So those are
the most frustrating things. Um. I of course ended up
going to an amazing situation for quarterbacks, the Jets. Uh
So I was thrilled to end up going where I went,
um to have the chancellor from brew and to be
with Mark, who was one of my buddies. We had
(17:45):
the same quarterback coach growing up. But um, for those
that are expecting to hear their name called in the
first five or ten picks and they end up getting
their name called, you know, pick thirty, it's not always
a terrible situation. There's so much about your success is
about where you go and unfortunately for UM, they go
to horrible situations and they wash out of the lead
(18:06):
rather quickly. Others go to great situations and they can
have a decent amount of success for some time before
they're expected to carry the load. So uh, I always
think it's an awful feeling to fall. But you know,
sometimes God's greatest gifts are in unanswered prayers. Well, you
might be giving up in guaranteed money as a draft pick.
(18:29):
You might be rewarded with a better supporting cast, and
I personally would rather have the better supporting cast so
I can win and have that crazy guaranteed money in
the first contract. Interesting, you know that what you were
talking about in the previous section really struck me about.
You know, you're talking about Malik Willis, But what struck
me about it was really the balance between learning how
(18:49):
to play the position and then learning how to attack
defenses and understanding defenses. And there's a balance there, especially
when quarterbacks have to play early, because when they come
in early, they're not going to be that familiar with
all the details and complexities of NFL defense. That takes time. UM,
(19:09):
And and obviously, as you know, Greg, defensive coordinators do
a lot of things in the NFL, and you get
the third and long and they've got the tactical advantage,
and you've got to try to win when they have
the tactical advantage. And as you said, you're not thinking
about your technique, your mechanics, you're fundamentals. You're just thinking
about trying to make a play because it's third and
eight and you just want to make a play. And
(19:30):
then you look at the guys, you know, the Tom
Brady's of the world, who could never make a play
by running around, but yet the mechanics, the fundamentals were perfect,
seemingly on every single throw. And sometimes I think that's
getting lost in the translation with this new emphasis and
new focus on the fact that guys can run around
and make plays and then they miss some easy ones
because their fundamentals aren't good enough. Yeah, and I think
(19:53):
that's that's the balance, right. You have to the the
off schedule place, the uncoachable place, right, Like that's what
a lot of people always describe. And the coach. If
you can find an O C that will call a
perfect game, let me know, because I don't know one.
I've never seen one. It's never happened shoot you laugh.
(20:14):
But like, I'm sure Brian Schottenheimer thought he called a
perfect game or two, but there were a few times
in which she probably you know, didn't have a perfect
game call. I say that tongue in cheek, but like,
there are several examples in which the offensive quarter makes
an awful play call. It's just it happens. But what
a quarterback like Malik Willis can do for you is
(20:37):
that even in spite of the defense winning before the snap,
they can still win because it becomes a matchup situation
against maybe someone in the open field, or extending a play,
buying just a little bit more time. I think there's
a little bit too much of an emphasis on that
right now, because coaches want the quarterback that can get
(21:00):
you out of jail and make you right even when
the coach was wrong. You just have more you have
more margin for error as a coach if you have
a guy that can create. But personally, if I'm a coach,
I would love to have a quarterback that's extension of me. No,
every single time I call the play, here's why he's
calling the play. Here's how we're going to execute it
(21:22):
based on the defense that we get in the unexpected
situation in which we get pressure, here's our answer. If
we get a specific look, here's our check to it,
here's our audible whatever it may be. So I think
that there's a there's a balance there. But it does
feel like organizations are trending in the direction of finding
the guy that can maybe create on their own and
(21:45):
maybe make the sand lot play where they run around
to do something spectacular as opposed to win methodically by
you know, going with a hot route or a sight
adjustment or whatever it may be. So I think it's
all about what the organization's philosophies are and if you
want to rely more on a letticism totally to get that.
But I certainly last I checked Tom Brady still playing
(22:07):
in an m v P caliber. Aaron Rodgers is the
m v P. Like those guys that can still win
from the pocket and that are an extension of their
play color. Uh, those are still the guys that I
think have the most consistent success. Yeah, they're not bad.
Those guys are. All Right, it's been a while. Greg
McElroy with us here about Tape's draft season. All right,
let's get to this draft a bit. But we have
you for a few more minutes. We talked about the
(22:28):
quarterbacks and Willison pick It, Matt Corral and whatnot. But
I mean, you're right in the middle of SEC country.
You call SEC games at a regular basis for ESPN,
you also call other conferences. You're hosting a morning show
with col Cublic, like in the backyard hotbed of college
football in America. So what are your strongest inclinations Maybe
(22:49):
some of the guys that you think people you know
should be jumping at from the world of the SEC.
How you think the top ten is going to shake out?
What do you think about this draft? Here? Here's what
I find comical and and I look at the NFL
Draft and all because i'm, you know, a product of ESPN,
I'll use Keiper and mcshay's big board for the time being,
(23:10):
so I'll just go off of that. And I see
Aiden Hutchinson at number one as the number one overall
player on the big board, right, And I'm sure you
saw him in person. Very impressed by what Aiden Hutchinson
did throughout the course of his college career, most notably
and his most recent season. I thought he was great,
But there was never at any point any indication from
(23:33):
his play on the field last year that would warrant
him going number one overall. Like just just being completely honest.
I watched, say, for instance, Will Anderson at Alabama, who
does not have draft eligibility, and I saw Will Anderson
literally beat Mississippi State by himself. The guy had like
(23:55):
four sacks, six tackles for loss. I mean, was an
absolute dominant force. There was never a point in which
I looked at Aiden Hudson's said, oh dude, that guy,
we better not do anything in his direction because he
will eat our lunch. I never felt that way. So
the fact that he's garnering consideration to go number one
overall is mind blowing to me. Like I, I I don't
(24:17):
think anyone in this draft stands out as a bona
fide number one overall type of guy. Like Trayvon Walker,
he wasn't even the best player along his own defensive front.
He might have the highest ceiling, but he wasn't the
best player wide receiver. Garrett Wilson unbelievably explosive, but at
(24:38):
times he took a backseat to Chris Olavey, uh Kyle
Hamilton's he's a safety. I think he's great, but he's
a safety, Like, how can I justify take in a
non premier position with the first overall pick? I can't
left tackle? To me, I think it could give Kana
is probably the most impressive guy I've seen on tape
(25:00):
all year at left tackle, and there's arguments as to
whether or not he he is even going to project
into being a Day one starter and things like that.
I mean, I I just don't know where you go
because to me, the guy that's been talking about as
the number one overall pick, I can't tell you a
single difference between the number one guy according to Kuiper
(25:21):
and mcshae and Aidan Hutchinson and the guy that's number
twenty four, who's George karloftis from Purdue. To me, there's
somewhat interchangeable. So if I'm attacking this draft, I am
thrilled that I'm the New York Jets with four picks
in the top fifty, with two picks in the top ten.
I don't want the number one overall pick because I
(25:42):
don't think there's a guy worthy of the number one
overall pick. But I like the depth and I think
that there's a lot of really good players that will
be plug and play starters in the top forty prospects,
But how you would kind of sort them out one
through forty, I have a very difficult time doing so.
Some of the guys I love the most Tyler Leonard
(26:02):
Baumbs center from Iowa. I think he's incredible. I've so
enjoyed watching him play for the last several years. Derek
Stingley at l s U was an absolute lockdown corner.
I think he's obviously had some issues the last couple
of years as far as injuries are concerned, but I
think those were partly because I had just how good
he was as a true freshman there in twenty nineteen.
(26:23):
I love Garrett Wilson. I think wide receiver shockingly enough
has become a premier position. So if I can get
guys that can run and jump and create matchups, you
can play him inside and out. I love the idea
of his versatility. So I mean, those are kind of
three of the guys that I feel like are a
little bit further on the draft board than they probably
should be. And you can make a strong argument that
(26:45):
any of those three were just as good as Aidan
Hutchinson at their best. This season. I kind of agree
with you, by the way, Greg, I think it's a
tough year to have the top two or three picks
in the draft, but yet there I think there's a
lot of depth at certain positions. Let me ask you
about one guy who I'm sure you're familiar with, because
I personally think that he's the best wide receiver prospect
(27:06):
in this draft. And that's and I don't know him personally,
so you may know more about him. I think George
Pickens is the best receiver prospect in this draft when
you just look at the talent level, he's terrific and
you're probably getting a bit of a steel on him, uh,
just because of the injury last year and the lack
of availability. So I think he's phenomenal um and has
(27:29):
a real high ceiling and could become a real guy.
I I for one, would not be in a real
hurry to start spending a ton of draft capital at
wide receiver. This is as deep a wide receiver draft
as I can recall. Because you reference George Pickens, well,
I have just an infatuation with Treylon Burke's Arkansas who
took over several games, including a game against Alabama, throughout
(27:53):
the course of last year. I mean we're talking Drake
London is a monster. Christian Watson from North Dakota State
is a monster. I mean, you can go eight, nine,
ten deep at wide receiver and every single one of
those dudes could be a Day one starter. And we're
talking about really, this is as good a wide receiver
draft as I can remember, with immediate impact players that
(28:16):
offer versatility like Drake London to me is Mike Evans reincarnate.
They are so similar to me coming out. And I
think Traylon Burke's, while I'm disappointed with his overall speed,
I thought he'd run better. He's kind of one of
those guys that just want to burn the tape on,
Like just give him the ball in space and or
give him the ball in a contested catch situation. He's
(28:38):
going to win that matchup. The guy has enormous hands
and has done a really good job with relatively inaccurate
quarterbacks the last couple of years from Arkansas. So I
just think this receiver draft, y'all is is ten plus
and I am really anxious to see just how quickly
the run starts with wide receivers, because if it starts
(28:59):
really early. Say the Jets take one at four or
whatever it is, how quickly does the second one come off,
and then the third one come off, and then so
on and so forth. So I think it's a really
deep group and one that I wouldn't be in a
real rush to make a run on because I think
you can find a guy in the second round. It's
probably not that much worse than a guy that got
drafted in the top five or six. We could talk
(29:21):
ball with you up until Draft night, that's how good
this has been. Can I tell you guys that the
one guy that no one's talking about that I just want,
I don't want to have like and I told you
so a moment ten years from now. And this guy
is like a perennial All Pro Jalen Petrie from Baylor.
Just just remember that name. He doesn't look the part,
but he's got some Honey Badger qualities. Like he reminds
(29:43):
me so much of Tyrone Matthew and of the players
that are going to come off the board day two.
He's my favorite. Him and Logan Hall from Houston are
the two guys that I am like obsessed with as well.
I haven't yet, but logan Hall, You're gonna love more
than let's Wyatt, who is getting you know everybody's talking about.
(30:05):
I think Hall is a way better prospect. I'm glad
we're on the same page because I know I'm in.
I'm in. I'm in very very good situation. If you
if you're seeing what I'm seeing, I'm not seeing. I'm
not seeing ghosts here because All to me is a
really good prospect. He's he lay inside and now he's huge.
He got great length. Like I think that dude's a
(30:26):
get ready. He's gonna be a handful for someone's gonna
get in the second round and be like, oh my gosh,
what do we just stumble into? I agree with you
can be said, are you in heaven talking football with
this guy? What? More? Greg? At some point here for
two knuckleheads from Jersey, thanks for slipping a y'all in
there for us as well, like that that's like this
(30:49):
like an official stamp that this is a real football podcast.
We appreciate that. I should have said use guys or
something like that. I don't know, like use guys or
something like that. I'm sure works. I should have dropped
to forget about it in there you know about it.
You've got a little bit of that still in your
from your days up here. Greg, You're the best. Thanks
a million, see you guys. Thanks all right. That's Greg
McElroy who not only if you're in Birmingham you can
(31:12):
hear him mornings with Cole Cublic uh doing radio down there,
but also you will see him every Saturday doing college
football games as well for ESPN, and he will be
bouncing in and out of Sports Center and get up
and all the ESPN shows uh talking about college football
and the drafts are straight ahead. Some thoughts on some
of the gems that try Greg dropped, and we will
wrap up this edition of Tapeds Draft Season. We're back
(31:36):
on tapeds trap Season. One week away from the draft,
Bob was shoos and Greg Costell how much phone was
that talking football? I feel like I could talk to
Greg McElroy for about a week and and not stop
and miss all the meals and it wouldn't even bother.
I barely scratch the surface, right, I mean, how many
more guys could we have talked about? How many more
teams and philosophies and concepts, and you know, maybe if
(31:57):
we're doing this again next year. We need to get
him on even early in the in the process, just
to talk conceptual quarterback play. Even I loved all that
about the quarterback. Yeah, I mean, that's one of my takeaways.
Obviously we can talk about a few other guys as
well that he mentioned, But one of the takeaways I
thought was that balance between being an extension of the
(32:19):
play caller and running the structure of the offense as
often as you possibly can. Obviously he said there'll be
some plays that you can't, but basically staying within the
structure and executing the offense versus this new emphasis on
let's run around and make some plays, let's play off schedule.
A lot of coaches have now gravitated to more than ever.
(32:42):
And I love the mahomes uh discussion because I spoke
to a lot of coaches Bob that year at the
Combine who basically said, Hey, we know this guy is
super talented, but I worked sixty and eighteen hours a
day putting in my offense and I want him to
execute it. I don't want him to just run around. Now,
this conversation seems silly today given what Patrick Mahomes is
(33:04):
accomplished in the league, but believe me. Back then there
was the reason he was the tenth pick in the
draft and not a unanimous number one pick. But you know,
that's the concern is that you play outside of structure.
There's too much randomness to that. A great example though,
of something that you know is going to go on
inside war rooms. Patrick Mahomes was probably an internally debated
(33:30):
prospect as polarizing as it gets some seeing the natural
gifts and and Malik Willis will probably have that same
kind of a polarizing debate. You'll see the gifts, you'll
see the talent, you'll see the ceiling. Some coaches or gms,
we can get that out of him. Some coaches and
gms might be like, look way too much of a
learning curve to succeed in the NFL. You might not
(33:51):
know until you get him under your roof. And even
listening to Greg break down some of the prospects, he
sees what you don't see necessarily in a Drake London, right,
Like we talked about Drake London back in one of
our first episodes of this podcast. We talked about the
great wide receiver prospects there were in this draft, and
you didn't think that he was, you know, a Mike
(34:13):
Evans clone Ornet. But but that will also be a
great example of an internal debate teams will have. I
can tell you for a fact, Bob, from talking to
some GMS that that conversation is going on right now.
I did not see Drake London that way, which, by
the way, doesn't mean I don't think he'll be a
good NFL player, you know, because people always jumped to
extremes as you well know, you know, being in the
(34:34):
business we're in. I did not see him as a
Mike Evans, who many have compared him to, as Greg McElroy,
who's obviously incredibly intelligent. And I've always felt that reasonable
people can disagree about this and that's fine. Maybe I
can then learn something as well. But when I watched
Drake London and I watched his tape from one, I
did not see a Mike Evans or even a Mike
(34:55):
Williams type receiver. I saw more of a big slot
type receiver who I think could be really dynamite in
I But I did not see him as a boundary
X receiver, meaning the single receiver to the short side
of the field. Now, obviously he can play above the rim.
He's got great hands, great body control, makes contested catches,
but I just did not see him having that kind
(35:17):
of explosiveness as a mover. Maybe I'll be wrong, believe me.
I hope I am, because I love when players come
in the league and they're great. That's what we always want.
You want these young players to come in and be great.
And now we've got me so excited. One guy I've
not seen yet, and I have the list of like
five guys who are must seize before the draft that
I just haven't gotten to yet, is Jalen Petrie, the
(35:38):
safety from Baylor. Now that he mentioned that, I cannot wait.
In fact, that might be my afternoon's activity is looking
at Jalen Pietrie. Well. I have a feeling his name
might get brought up next week as we had towards
the drafts uh. I think the other kind of thirty
thousand foot view of this draft we've talked a lot
about it certainly reinforces what we have said during this
(36:00):
podcast about this draft as a whole, not a great
year to have maybe the number one or number two
or number three pick, because there is a salary level
and a financial commitment that goes along with the higher
the pick, the more you have to pay. It's just
the way it works. That's the salary scale. But if
you feel like you can get basically the same player
(36:23):
impact was at ten, eleven, twelve that you can get
at one, two, or three, that's a huge advantage to
a team having a tenth, eleventh, or twelfth pick, because
you're not paying the eleventh pick nearly what you're paying
the first or second pick. Do you agree, I mean,
is the top fifteen kind of that top tier in
this draft that deep, that even that balanced, that you're
(36:47):
still going to get a similar talent, say if you're
picking eighth, and beyond that, if you're picking and say
the top three or four. I do. In fact, I
felt this way, but it was also echoed by conversations
I've had that in an ideal world, someone like Aidan
Hutchinson would probably be a top ten or top fifteen pick.
But here's the question. Because this is the draft, Bob,
(37:09):
you know, these are the players that are available in
this draft, so you have to draft. So if we
all know that Aidan Hutchinson isn't necessarily a guy you
look at and automatically say, Wow, that guy's a number
one pick in any draft. So let's say you draft
him and he turns out to be a ten year,
real quality player, but not a Hall of Famer in
(37:29):
this draft, wouldn't you say then that you did really well? Sure,
once things happen and guys play, everybody is a genius
when you have access to the results, Bob, As we know,
when you have access to the results, then it's easy.
But you don't have access to the results. Now you've
got a draft based on your process of evaluation. So
if you draft Aden Hutchinson and he becomes a really
(37:51):
good ten year player, not t J. Watt, but a
really good ten year player, then you've done well in
this given draft. Ye. And it's just like what Bill
Parcels always says about players or quarterbacks, right, we can
only use what the call just send us. Well, if
you're a general manager, you can only draft who's in
this draft. Someone has to pick one and some player
has to go one, and that's just the way it goes.
(38:11):
There are years where there is the transcendent, you know,
Peyton Manning type talented quarterback. There are years where there's
a blend of players and debate as to who should
go first, second, and so on and so forth. We
happen to be in one of those blend years, but
for for our purposes, makes it even more interesting to
talk about. Greg mentioned Matt Correll, who you know and
(38:31):
who he knows, I'm sure, and loves his competitiveness, and
he stood out to him. There's certain things about Matt
Correll that are separate from his competitiveness when you watch
tape that I guarantee will concern some offensive coaches. And
I'll tell you one thing which I noticed immediately, and
I had it a coach that I know well, a
quarterback coach. We talked about this. When I watched Matt Correll,
(38:54):
I thought to myself, God, this guy's five eleven or
six feet and then he came in at six one
in five eighths. And the reason, Bob I thought he
was five eleven six ft when I watched his tape
was because he throws from a very low angle. He's
got a snap delivery, a very compact, quick delivery, which
is very good, and obviously the ball comes out extremely well,
(39:14):
but it comes out low, and I thought watching him, Wow,
this guy is really small and so I wonder if
in the NFL, if he's going to make those between
the hash between the numbers throws that are more quick
rhythm type throws. I'm not talking about deeper drops. I'm
talking about the quick rhythm throws that have become so
much more a part of the NFL game because he
(39:36):
throws as if he's five eleven or six ft, not
as if he's six one in five eights. Well, when
we come back next week, we're gonna have those kinds
of conversations because the hey will be in the barn right,
teams will have their board set, so we're gonna talk
to you really about I think what your final analysis
is of certain position groups. Maybe the top guys in
(39:57):
this draft will just be a few days away from
teams calling the names. When we come back next Tuesday
and drop our next episode, we'll have a busy week.
Will also be joining you after the first round, wrapping
up tape heeds draft season. Finally, the draft is upon
us and we'll get after it. We come back next Tuesday,
So please rate, subscribe, download, tell your friends about it.
(40:18):
If you get a football nerd in your life that
wants to get ready for the Draft. Hopefully we've done
a good job of preparing you for exactly that, and
we will come back next Tuesday with another edition of
tap Heeds Draft Season.
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