April 26, 2022 • 37 mins
The Tape Heads: Draft Season podcast heads into Draft Week with Bob Wischusen and Greg Cosell discussing the top players that will be taken starting on Thursday. Bob points out the WR depth this year and how many players at that position get taken in the Top 10. Greg says George Pickens is the top WR talent, but big play possibilities is what teams are looking for. Having WR's that can line up anywhere has also become key which is why Garrett Wilson can bring a lot to a team. Onto other top names we'll hear in the first round, Greg explains why Travon Walker could be in the top three. With so much talent available, but no clear superstars, we explore why 'team and scheme' is going to drive what happens in this Draft.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Tape Heeds. It's a production of I Heart Media and
the NFL. It has finally arrived. It is finally Draft week,
and now on tape Heeds Draft Season, we're at the
finish line. Bobo schusan longtime radio voice of the New
York Jets, feels like forever, also a guy who does
(00:26):
play by play for ESPN for college football, And if
I have been the Jet radio voice forever, it means
that Greg co Sell has been twice forever breaking down
the film for NFL films. You are that old and
you have gone through that many drafts, forty plus years
of breaking down the all twenty two. We have spent
the past month and a half basically on tape Heeds
(00:48):
Draft Season crawling behind the xes and oh's not doing
the mock draft so much, but trying to give you
as much of a real insider perspective on how teams
of value players, on how they put their board together
when the hay is final in the barn, the way
teams are going to approach Thursday night and the rest
of the draft through the weekend. And we're gonna have
(01:10):
episodes of this podcast that will drop every day this week.
So normally we do them on Tuesdays and Thursdays. The
immediacy of the draft now happening on Thursday night, Greg,
We're gonna get your material every single day, so you're
gonna have new podcast leading up to the draft and
also then reaction podcasts to the draft each weekday this
week and uh, you know what, we're at the finish line, right,
(01:32):
I mean you've said that by the time you get
to this point as an NFL team, you might as
well even just send your coaches home because the board
is basically set or is there still some tweaking that
can happen all the way up until that first card
is turned in on Thursday night. Well, I know for
a fact, Bob, that a lot of teams did send
their coaches home. The coaches were gone last week because
(01:54):
boards are done. And I think at this point, barring
any new piece of information that's unfortunate for particular player,
uh that comes out you know this week leading up
to the draft, that pretty much nothing is going to change. Uh.
Let's put it this way. I've not been in a
draft room, so I don't know exactly how they do it,
(02:15):
but my sense is nothing should change if you're changing now,
then you're not really comfortable with your own convictions because
obviously the footage doesn't change from the season, the pro
days don't change. All the due diligence you've done doesn't change.
All this work is done, so really nothing should change
(02:38):
at this point. Having said that, though, there are still
a lot of varying opinions of the top guys on
the board, and we have done a deep dive into
some of the dark horse candidates even for Day two
and Day three of the draft, the guys that you
really might be able to look like a genius with
your friends watching the draft, when all of a sudden
you start breaking down a player using great costell stolen information,
(03:02):
and you know, I'm those diamonds in the rough. But
let's circle back now to the top of the board.
Let's get to some of the biggest names. And I
think the most perplexing position is wide receiver, because there
are three or four wide receivers that people believe could
go off the board, if not in the top ten,
certainly in the top fifteen. At the same time, we
(03:23):
keep hearing about how incredibly deep the talent pool at
wide receiver is. How you should be able to find
a really good wide receiver later in the draft. So,
if you have a top ten pick, are these guys,
in your opinion, collectively worthy of that type of a
reach because you know teams are gonna take them, unless
(03:43):
you know, you start to think to yourself, well, you know,
maybe I can use my draft capital to back out
of the top ten to pick a wide receiver later
on in the first in the second round. How do
you break this group down, especially the guys who I
think we're going to hear their names called early on
Thursday night. Well, I think because this is a different year,
and by different year, I mean we're not going to
(04:05):
have three or four quarterbacks taken in the top ten. Um,
there's going to be I think a wide variance in
the way people view the prospects that are considered top
five or top ten prospects in this particular draft, because
you can only draft who's in this draft. So I
think that the same will be said for wide receivers. Um.
(04:26):
I know that many think that the receiver that I
have is my number one is controversial, and that's fine.
I've spoken to teams who absolutely agree that George Pickens
is the best receiving prospect in this draft now, because
he had didn't play last year until the very end,
and that was just a select number of snaps, and
(04:46):
because of other things that I don't know about, but
I'm told about that he may not be that guy.
But I'm starting to get the sense that the way
teams think is big play Bob and Jamison Williams, although
he may not be ready Week one, when you have
game changers, impact players who can score, you know, in
(05:08):
some ways, it's the it's the Tyree Hill theory. It's
the idea that what are you trying to get accomplished
in the NFL. You're trying to get accomplished now on offense,
big explosive plays that score, and that forced the defense
to have to play you a certain way, and that
makes the defense predictable, and that's what offenses want. So
(05:28):
I think as we get closer and again, you and
I don't know what's going to happen Thursday night. Of
course we don't, but you know, just from conversations I've
had and seeing the way through my film study, over
the last number of years, the league has evolved. I
think the big play, explosive receiver is really of tremendous
value right now. There are guys on this board, though,
(05:52):
that have completely different body types, without question, completely different
skill sets. They make big plays, but they make big
plays happen in different ways. Right Like you said, George Pickens,
you think he is and you might be an outlier,
but you've got teams in the league that are telling
you that they agree with you, that they think that
he might be the best pure prospect in this draft.
(06:13):
But the other guys like Garrett Wilson, Chrystal Lave, Drake, London,
uh Traylon Burke's, Jamison Williams, John Dotson, all of these
guys on a lot of boards are rated up, if
not high in the first round, certainly capable of going
in the first round. Do you have a name or
(06:34):
two out of that group that maybe you've circled back
to and maybe formed a little bit of a different
opinion of than when you first looked at them back
even six or eight weeks ago when we started breaking
these prospects down, because I think wide receiver was one
of the first position groups that we tackled, wasn't it.
It was one of the first episodes we did. We
dug into the wide receivers. Yeah, it's it's not a
(06:54):
matter of revisiting, but just thinking it through. UM. I
really like Garrett Wilson quite a bit. UM. I really
think that he uses higher level receiving traits UM, and
I think he gives you inside outside flexibility. I think
that's very important today's NFL because you want to be
in a position where you don't have to feel like
(07:16):
players have to line up in a specific spot because
that makes it easier to defend, you know, and us,
of course you have an unbelievably great receiver like a
Cooper Cup who tends to line up in the slot. Uh,
probably a higher percentage of the time. But I think
that Garrett Wilson, to me, he's about six ft, he's
one eight three. You know, maybe you'd like him to
(07:38):
weigh a little more, but I think he is the
receiver UM that really stands out in terms of how
he can be deployed in an NFL offense. And you know,
you mentioned about wide receivers in general. You know, keep
in mind that so many teams now are playing out
of eleven personnel, meaning they have one back, one tight end,
(07:58):
and three wide receivers. The Rams they won the Super Bowl,
they played out of eleven personnel over eight of their
offensive snaps. So I think the league has really moved
in that direction. And you always need receivers, and you'd
like to have receivers that you can line up in
different locations within your offense. And Garrett Wilson is that guy.
(08:22):
Thinking also about the top ten, and obviously I call
Jets games. Two of the top ten picks are owned
by the Jets. They have a young quarterback that you
know they want to support, and their general manager has
not just like surreptitiously publicly gone out and pursued big
time wide receivers in this offseason and has not yet
(08:43):
been able to add one. There are a lot of
Deebo Samuel rumors going on with the Jets right now.
Another team in Carolina, you know they've got good skill guys,
but not top end wide receivers. Um they still have
Sam Donald. They may draft a quarterback who knows, uh
you have you know Atlanta that might be the market
for a quarterback. Seattle Lot obviously has made a quarterback change.
(09:07):
Taking a look at the top ten, some of the
teams I just ran through, which teams do you think
might prioritize wide receiver or might prioritize either going in
a different direction, maybe taking one of those quarterbacks go
to quarterback be reached for. I mean just the general
concept of how the top ten to top twelve fall,
because we're wondering if these wide receivers are gonna come
off the board. But different teams obviously are gonna have
(09:30):
different ways of approaching the top ten based on their needs. Yeah,
and I would think that in the first round, and
that's what we're talking about, we're talking about first round players.
I would think that your team absolutely needs to prioritize
a wide receiver. Um. They drafted one in the second
round a year ago, when Elijah Moura player. I like,
they obviously signed Corey Davis. He's solid. But I think
(09:52):
when you have a young quarterback, there's two things you'd
really like to make sure you do. Number One, you'd
like to make sure that your offensive line is solid.
And I think they addressed that certainly with Lake and Tomlinson,
who'll started guard. And I think they feel very good.
You would know better than I being there. Uh, they
feel very good about Vera Tucker. Um. I guess Beckton
(10:14):
becomes the question mark, but I think you want to
make sure that on the outside you have some threats.
So I think they for sure. And then the other
team and I believe they draft eighth, and I think
they have many needs. But right now, if you look
at the Atlanta Falcons, I would bet that you'd be
hard pressed unless you're a Falcons fan, to tell me
(10:35):
their top three receivers. So I think that they absolutely
need to address the wide receiver position, which doesn't mean
they'll address it at pick eight, but they there certainly
will be a wide receiver at eight that they have
rated highly on their board. I mean, right now, if
you look at their wide receiver position, they have Audent eight,
(10:58):
Demere Bird, and Zachias Olamaday Zechias. Those are their three
top wide receivers right now. Um, unless you want to
count Kyle Pitts as one as well, and he probably
is to some extent, but that that's their wide receiver
trio as there as we speak this week. Bob, that's
great co sell on Bobo shoes and the wide receivers.
(11:19):
There is such depth of talent at that position, but
still you've got these top end names. Who else might
be picked in and around the top ten. If it's
not a wide receiver. What position group might bump the
wide receivers down? Could be the tackles, could be the
pass rushers, could be the corners. And will a quarterback
or two sneak their way into the top ten? Will
(11:41):
teams reach the teams that need one? Could that happen?
We will straight ahead continue to tell you the top
names that you're going to hear called on Thursday night
and what teams will be calling those names when we
come back on TAPEDS Draft season. Back on TAPEDS Draft season,
(12:01):
Bobo Shoes and Greg co Sell, and we just dug
into the wide receivers, and it is a strange economy,
as we said, with that position group top heavy, we expect,
as you said, three or four names to go possibly
in the top ten. But also there's a depth of
talent that's probably not true at some of the other
position groups that a lot of mock drafts will tell
(12:22):
you guys that are gonna go in the top ten.
So as you have dug deeper into, let's say start
with the pass rushers back about six or eight months ago,
maybe last year. Cavon Thibodeau was thought to be the
no brainer number one pick in this draft. Now I
don't think anyone has him anywhere as being the number
one pick on the board. If it is a pass rusher,
(12:43):
everyone seems to be leaning towards Aidan Hutchinson. Maybe it's
a tackle, you know, maybe the idea for Jacksonville is,
let's protect Trevor Lawrence, the cover corners, the Stingley's, the
Sauce Gardeners of the world. We expect to also be
drafted very very high. There's only ten picks in the
top ten, right we probably just named with the wide receivers,
with the ass rushers, with the corners, with the tackles,
(13:06):
not even having gotten the quarterbacks. About twenty possible names.
Someone's dropping out of the top ten. So which position
group do you think is going to maybe create that
early run. Isn't going to be those pass rushers as
so many are speculating. Maybe all the way up at
the top. You know, it's funny because I think there's
a sense that Trayvon Walker is going to go very high.
(13:29):
And Trayvon Walker is a very intriguing player because he's
not a true edge rusher, but he could become one
over time. He fits more of the mold. And I'm
certainly not making a comparison to this particular player who
just got into the Hall of Fame. I'm only mentioning
him because of the way Trayvon Walker I think would
(13:49):
be seen by teens, and that's Richard Seymour. Of course,
Richard Seymour just got into the Hall of Fame and
he was three d fifteen pounds um. Trayvon Walker is
not three fifteen pounds. He's about to seventy. But if
you're thinking about a player that can line up all
across your defensive front and has a complete skill set
with pass rush traits that are probably still developing and evolving,
(14:13):
he's the player. I think when we started talking about
this four or five weeks ago, Bob, there was no
sense that Treyvon Walker would be in the discussion as
a top pick or a top three pick in the draft.
And you I remember bringing up Jermaine Johnson as well, Yes, Hutchinson, Thibodeaux.
They got all the headlines, not just Walker. Also Jamaine Johnson,
(14:36):
even a David a. Jabo coming off of a major injury,
has very unique pass rushing skills, someone that probably could
have been a top ten consideration before the injury. But
Jermaine Johnson, I mean from your analysis and even some
teams you may be talking to, is he still thought
of as being maybe the dark Corse candidate to be
(14:57):
the best pass rusher in this class. I think he's
a little bit all over the board for people. Um
And again I looked at his tape in great detail,
so I have my viewpoint based on tape study. He's
a player that I really really liked. I think, you know,
that's the thing about this draft. I think Jermaine Johnson
could be a top five pick, or it could be
(15:18):
go between twenty. And I think because of this particular
class of pass rushers, I don't think anybody sees one
at the level of a must have. So I think
now you're getting into the eye of the beholder team
and scheme specific how they plan on deploying that particular player. Um.
(15:40):
You know, we've seen someone like Cavon Thibodeaux. Cavon Thibodeau
has great get off, He's a powerful man. Um, he
does not have great bend when you get to the
top of the arc. We talked about the fact that
he's not really flattened his rush path kind of pass rusher.
We saw him on tape when you watch the Oregon tape,
play inside and beat guards much in the same way
(16:03):
Jadeveon Clowney has done well in his career in the
NFL because it's turned out he's not truly an edge
pass rusher either. So I think it's how teams envision
these players within the context of their defense. Even someone
like Aiden Hutchinson, who I think is going to be
a very good pro. We saw him move inside at
(16:24):
times in the Michigan defense, so I think you're dealing
with versatility more than the one guy who is Wow,
he is such a good edge pass rusher, we absolutely
have to have him. Is there a team in the
top ten and a player in the top ten, maybe
a team in the top five if these guys you
think legitimately the Thibodeaus and Hutchinson's and maybe even the
(16:45):
Walkers or Jamaine Johnson's might be in conversation for the
top five top seven. Is there a marriage between team
and player in your opinion that makes the most sense.
A team that should be targeting a specific guy because
he's the right fit for what they need. And as
you said, this is a lot of times based on schematic,
based on system, based on coach's belief in playing a
(17:07):
certain way. What's the best marriage. Do you think pass
rusher to team high on the draft? Well, that's a
great question. Um, I'd be very curious what the Houston
Texans are going to do. They've got so many needs. Okay,
so they're a team that could go in any direction.
But we know that love E Smith is their head coach.
And what do we know about Lovey Smith? We know
(17:29):
that in his career, and he made some adjustments a
year ago because he had to. But at his core,
what love Ee Smith wants to do is rush for
and play coverage. He's been a cover to coach much
of his career. As I said, he had just make
some adjustments last year because he had to just based
on his personnel. But he would like to rush for now.
(17:51):
I'm not sitting here saying because we don't know that
he absolutely is going to take a pass rusher, but
I think they're a wild card in terms of pass rusher.
Obviously many people have them taking an offensive alignment. They
certainly need a corner as well, so they're all over
the board. It's why they're drafting third. But at love
The's core. He wants to be able to rush the
(18:13):
quarterback with four you know, so is there a pass
rusher in play for him? I would think there would be. Um,
you know, Aidan Hutchinson to me is probably the the
I hate to use this word, but people use it
the safest because I think he will be a very
good pro. Maybe not a dominant pro. You know, there's
(18:33):
not He's not t J. Watt when you talk about
edge pass rusher, but I think he's a very consistent
edge player who you can move inside in your sub fronts.
Same question with the tackles, right, you've got a quanto,
he's probably. It seems as we've gone further and further
in this draft, and I remember all the way back
(18:54):
we had some guests on I think Jeff Hafley actually
we brought him on from Boston College, mentioned the quantum
thinking he was the best tackle in the draft that
he plays with just that nasty. I want to finish you.
I want to block you to the wall of the stadium.
If you're the guy, that's my responsibility. He's that type
of a player. Obviously, there are a couple of other guys, um,
(19:15):
that are in this mix as well. Towards the top
of the draft. You've got Neil Um. You know, let's
see who else we got on our list too that
I want to talk to about Neil. Charles Cross certainly
is up there. Um. I guess maybe at second level,
like a Tyler Smith. Um. You know there there are
guys that I think we're also gonna hear some tackles
called up on the top of the draft. So give
(19:37):
me a marriage. But you think maybe with the young
quarterbacks like the Zach Wilsons and you know, Trevor Lawrences
of the world. I mean, as you said, if you're
picking in the top five, top seven, top ten of
a draft, you need a lot like by definition, you're
a team that needs a lot of different things. But
if you have a young quarterback, I would think it
has to be very tempting to spend it a pick
on a guy to protect him. Well, the biggest question
(19:59):
is where do you play him. There are many teams
in this league that of Iguannu as a guard not
a tackle. Now, I think you can start him at
tackle and see how it goes. But if you put
him at guard. You know, there are certain players that
came into this league that were drafted high. Brandon Sheriff
is a name that immediately comes to mind. He was
a left tackle at Iowa. Washington drafted him and immediately
(20:23):
put him at guard and he became an All Pro guard.
Iguana who has elite size, length, power, and the mindset
to play guard. He does not have the ideal traits
to play tackle, even though that's what he played for
the most part of North Carolina State. And I believe
that more than likely he will he will be drafted
(20:44):
as a tackle. But he's a little straight legged, he's
a little lower body stiff. He's not ideal for the
tackle position. So I am very curious. You know, I
mentioned Houston. They obviously need a tackle as well, um,
so I don't know how they see Iguana. You could
even talk about Jacksonville. We've heard that there's four players
(21:06):
that sort of were in the running for their first pick.
They could view Iguana, who as a guard, because they
just signed Cam Robinson who will be their left tackle.
So but but tackles could start going off the board
because you're going to have the top three with the Kwando,
Neil and Cross and then you're going to get into
(21:27):
the Trevor Pennings of the world players like that who
could easily start to come off the board. Corner that's
the other position group that seems to be collectively thought
of as being, you know, star driven. In this draft,
you've got Sauce, Gardner and Stingley right there, guys that
we are expecting to hear their names in the top
(21:48):
ten as well. We're starting to run out of spots
in the top ten. But it does seem to be
wide receiver, multiple guys, tackle, as we said, multiple guys,
pass rusher, multiple guys, cornerback, multiple guys. So which teams
do you think in the top and are gonna be
looking at Gardner, looking at Stingley? That might be the
marriage for those guys specifically, Well, the Detroit Lions need
(22:10):
corners and they draft too. Now again, then you get
caught up in should a player go it too? In
other words, could Sauce Gardner or Stingley go it too?
And then people started with oh, that's too high. Well,
you know, if you haven't need and I come back
to the conversation we had with Mike Tannenbaum. You know
a number of weeks ago with need versus must, at
(22:31):
some point you have to line up with players or
you can't play. So it doesn't matter if if let's
say Sauce Gardner, Let's say he's the fourth player on
your board, but you're the Lions at two and you
really need a corner or you feel like you literally
can't line up and be competitive, there's nothing wrong with
taking him at two, UM, and I think Gardner and
(22:51):
Stingley will end up being the top two corners off
the board. And then you start to get into how
people think about the Trent McDuffie's of the world. You know,
Trent McDuffie's the owner from Washington, and I think I
think he's a really good prospect. Um. Now he's got
some things in his game that could scare some teams, Bob,
(23:13):
So maybe he's not a top ten pick. Even though
his tape is really, really good. He's a little shorter
than you like. His arm length is right on the
edge of where corners are viewed in this league, because
when you get below a certain point, corners are not
drafted with arm length below I believe it's twenty nine
inches and McDuffie is just above that um. But Trent
(23:35):
McDuffie is a really good prospect um. You know. Then
you get into his teammate Kyler Gordon, who I think
could also be a first round pick. So corners can
go because the reality is, it's interesting we're talking corners
and wide receivers because wide receiver and corner they tend
to be the two most drafted positions every year simply
(23:57):
because of the way the league is going. If you're
a defensive coordinator, you never have enough quality corners. Yep.
And it makes sense, and we've kind of tackled the
positions where we think multiple guys are going to be
drafted potentially in the top ten, top twelve or so.
But there are some wild card one offs at certain
positions that I want to get to next. Some guys
(24:20):
that may be the only guy at their position that
gets drafted in the top ten or the top fifteen.
But are guys that certainly could throw a monkey wrench
into how most people are prognosticating the top ten, top
fifteen will go. We're just a few days away from
the NFL Draft. You get a new episode of Tape
Heeds Draft season every day leading up to the draft,
(24:41):
as well as Friday after Round one. I'm Bobo Shusan
with Greg Cosell. And we also haven't touched on the
quarterbacks yet, and the quarterbacks are always lurking, even in
a bad quarterback draft quote unquote, as you know, a
possible wild card, right like guys that could be reached
for guys that could turn into top ten surprises. So
we're gonna get to some of the one offs, some
(25:02):
of the players we have and spent a lot of
time on, and the quarterbacks when we come back on
TAPEDS Draft season. Back here on TAPEDS Draft Season, Bobo
Shoos of Greg co Sell leading up to Round one
of the NFL Draft on Thursday night. Finally at the
finish line, finally we're going to actually see some cards
turned in and hear the names called. And Greg, we're
(25:24):
gonna do a deeper dive into all of the quarterbacks
coming up in our Wednesday episode. But this is kind
of the one off segment, right Like, I'm looking for
the guys that you think are going to be wild
card players that could appear in the top ten, that
haven't gotten as much conversation about them because they're not
part of the group of corners, the group of wide receivers,
(25:46):
the group of tackles or pass rushers, the guys that
we think are all in play in the top ten.
And then there's two other names that I want to
bring up specifically that I also think our players we
haven't spent probably as much time as we should on
because they're kind of one off guys. So if they're
was a quarterback, one guy that you think a team
(26:07):
might reach for in the top ten and surprise everyone,
who do you think that might be. Well, I'm gonna
play off your word reach, and I think that player
would be Malik Willis. Now, he would not be my
number one rated quarterback in this draft class, but I
think the reach is the key word here, because Malik
Willis gives you something that coaches now seem to put
(26:29):
a higher premium on than ever before, Bob, and that's
the ability to make those special secondary action improvisational plays. Now,
then you have to decide, and this is where it
gets to coach and therefore team specific as to the
value of that and the balance between that and being
(26:50):
too able to execute the offense as designed. And and
that's the question that is. It's it's not a numerical,
quantitative answer to that question. It's very much open to
discussion and to one's point of view. But I think
there's a sense amongst people, right or wrong, that if
(27:10):
Malik Willis would reach whatever his potential, maybe that he
has that special quality to do the kinds of things
that help you win in big games. And I'm not
I'm not making a direct one to one comparison to
Josh Allen because I personally think Josh Allen is the
most physically gifted quarterback in the NFL, believe it or not,
(27:33):
actually said that a year ago before the season, and
I think it kind of played out towards the end
of the season. Um, But I think there's a sense
that those kinds of plays that a Josh Allen can make,
if Malik Willis can get to that point, then you
have someone who's truly special. So he's the quarterback that
(27:54):
I think is probably generating the most discussion in draft rooms.
We're gonna talk more about Milik Willis in our next
episode when it drops, and we're gonna talk about the
entire quarterback class because quarterbacks obviously always draw the headlines
even in what is thought to be a weak quarterback draft,
and Malik Willis can't he pick it. These are names
we've spent a lot of time on and guys that
(28:16):
could be reached for and could appear in the top ten.
But here's two other guys before we wrap up this
episode that I want to bring up. And obviously Kyle
Hamilton's has been talked about by some as being worthy
of like a top two or top three pick in
this draft. Um Robert Salo, of course with the Jets,
was asked about whether or not Kyle Hamilton's would just
(28:36):
be too talented to pass up at number four. He
did not close the door on that possibility way back
when called him a unicorn. Right, So, safety is a
weird position. Some teams safety could be the m v
P of their defense. Can cover the tight end, can
be moved all over the field if in combination with
the rest of your defensive parts, you can take that
(28:58):
guy and turn him into a true nightmare Swiss Army
knife and put him everywhere. Some team they might just
want safety back in center field because their corners might
not be very good. Right, Like, you really need to
get a guy like that paired with the right team,
the right system, and the right personnel. But where do
you think Kyle Hamilton's in the end might be kind
of a fly in the ointment in the top ten
(29:19):
for some of these other you know, position groups where
we're predicting all of these guys to go high. Well,
if you take the belief that Kyle Hamilton's is a
rare physical talent, which he is. He's six four and
an eight to twenty, and he is a do it
all safety, okay, he he He has all the needed traits, Bob,
to handle all the responsibilities of the safety position in
(29:41):
the NFL. And you really hit on an important point.
I personally believe, based on all the tape study I
do during the NFL season for the NFL matchup show
that safety is a really important position in the league
right now. And I think the teams that don't see
it that way, and and I'm not saying teams do.
I don't know the answer to that. I don't know
(30:01):
the discussions and draft rooms, but I think we've reached
the point where it's pretty self evident that safety is
a critical position and Kyle Hamilton's can do everything you
ask of a safety now it's always easy to say.
I love when people say, well, a team has to
figure out how to use them. I'm not sure exactly
what that means, because he can do everything you want
(30:22):
him to do, so you can line him up in
multiple positions. To me, I watched him and he's actually
a bigger man. I thought he was very similar to
the way I thought of Derwin James in terms of deployment.
James is probably twitchier and more short areas sudden, and
Hamilton's is more straight line fluid with more range. But James,
(30:43):
when you see the way he was deployed in the
Chargers defensive year ago, he did everything. Hamilton's is the
same guy. You can do everything with Kyle Hamilton's and
to me, that makes him an extremely valuable player who
is absolutely worthy of being taken in the top five.
Another player that has been and I think debated back
(31:05):
and forth a ton and I'm not sure we did
a deep dive into him because we didn't do interior
offensive lineman and there may not be but one interior
offensive lineman that you and many other you know draft
analysts have a really high, potentially high first round grade
on but Tyler linder Bob a center right like he's
(31:27):
seen and maybe he plays guard, maybe he stays at center.
I'm not sure, but we've spent a lot of time
talking about the tackles. I'm not sure I ever got
a deep dive from you on linder Bomb and what
you think about him? And Hi, you how high you
think he might go? Yeah, and I think, look, everybody
knows his tape is really good, and then he's a
really good prospect. But he blew people away at his
(31:49):
pro day with the kind of numbers that you just
don't see from that kind of build. So he is
a really good prospect. He's a great athlete. He's got
incredibly light feet, great balance and body control. He was
a high school slur, so you know he's got core strength. Um,
he's the term we like to use that he has
(32:09):
is snapped two step quickness. It's really good. He's a
great zone run blocker, and he can execute what are
called reach blocks, which are extremely difficult blocks to execute
in the zone run game, and you need movement and
flexibility to do that. And he's really good. To me,
he's a high level center prospect. There have been a
(32:31):
lot of comparisons made to Jason Kelsey because they're both
smaller centers, but they're extremely athletic. Um Normally you don't
think of centers going in the top fifteen. But again,
you know, if if you feel that you draft him
and he's your guy and you're gonna sign him to
a second contract and he's your guy for seven, eight,
(32:52):
nine years, I think you feel pretty good about that.
Do you think he is worthy of the top ten?
I mean, is he that talented compared to how your
analysis breaks down of some of these other position groups
and how deep they can be. Well, here's the way
I answer that kind of question. And it's always interesting
to me when people say a player or a position
(33:14):
shouldn't be drafted in a certain spot. So if you're
a team that, let's say, does not have a very
good old line, and I guess you could look at
a number of those teams in the top ten that
fall into that category, and you don't address the old
line because people say, well other than tackle obviously, because
people say, well, you don't draft a guard or a
(33:36):
center that high. And then all of a sudden, Bob
and you've been through this with the Jets, and all
of a sudden you get to Week five and one
of the reasons your offense isn't very good is because
your old line isn't any good. Then that's what the
issue is. So the issue isn't what position group do
you take in the draft at the end of April.
The issue is when you get into this season and
(33:57):
you can't pass protect or you can't run block, that
becomes the issue. So you can it's always easy to say,
don't draft this position, why do that? But if you
then you get to the games and that's the reason
you're losing, that's a problem. It's not sexy. But I'll
tell you this from firsthand perspective and firsthand experienced. The
(34:20):
last time the Jets were any good, they had Nick
Mangold at center and they had to Britashaw Ferguson at
left tackle, and they drafted them both in the first
round about a decade and a half ago. I mean,
keep this in mind, and you were doing the Jets
and uh, the year Sanchez his first two years as
a starter, Okay, it was two thousand nine and two
thousand and ten, they went to back to back championship
(34:40):
games with a quarterback that absolutely produced like bottom five,
bottom seven numbers at quarterback. The first year, they led
the league in rushing because he was there. The second year,
I believe they were third in rushing. So again we
consider here and say, well, that's not the NFL game. Now,
that's irrelevant. The point is is that if your old
(35:01):
line isn't any good and and that's why this year
was so strange with the Cincinnati Bengals, and and I
don't know how to put that into a capsule yet
and maybe no one does, but if your old line
is really bad, it's really tough to play offense. Yeah,
I would look at the Bengals as the outlier, and
I would look at the example of the Chiefs the
(35:22):
past couple of years of when we saw the deterioration
of their offensive line and saw Patrick Mahomes running for
his life starting in the Super Bowl a couple of
years ago, and at times this year, and how hard
even the most talented quarterback in the league, maybe the
most complete package of athleticism, you know, creativity, accuracy, everything
(35:43):
you'd want in a quarterback. You could make the argument
your package together and it becomes Patrick Mahomes. If the
guys up front aren't effective blocking for him? What what
does it look like? I agree. So that's why it's
easy to sit here, you know, and people like you
and I and you know, hopefully people like what they hear,
but it's easy for people like us to sit here
(36:04):
and say things like, well, you don't draft that position
at that spot, but you know, I have the opportunity
fortunately to talk to coaches, and when you don't have
players at certain positions, that limits what you can do,
and then you become so much easier to play against,
whether it's on the defensive side of the ball or
the offensive side of the ball. There's no question. Look,
(36:25):
we're gonna be back tomorrow. We'll have a Wednesday edition
of Taped's Draft Season to drop, and it will be
time to take a deeper dive into all of the quarterbacks.
Who is ready to step onto an NFL field next
season as a rookie, who's a project, who's worthy of
a reach, who might be a player that a team
might reach for and then find out they might regret
(36:47):
that decision if they do make that type of reach.
This is a fascinating quarterback class because you know these
guys will probably go relatively high. There will be some
quarterbacks names called in the first round, but there's a
lot of debate about how good this class US may
ultimately turn out to be. So our Wednesday edition with
Greg Cosal of tape Heeds Draft Season is going to
(37:10):
take that deep dive into the quarterbacks. Thank you for
being a tape ped Please rate, please subscribe, and we
will be joining you with our next episode dropping on Wednesday,
we'll dive into the quarterbacks. Looking forward to that on
tapeds Draft Season
Tape Heeds. It's a production of I Heart Media and
the NFL. It has finally arrived. It is finally Draft week,
and now on tape Heeds Draft Season, we're at the
finish line. Bobo schusan longtime radio voice of the New
York Jets, feels like forever, also a guy who does
(00:26):
play by play for ESPN for college football, And if
I have been the Jet radio voice forever, it means
that Greg co Sell has been twice forever breaking down
the film for NFL films. You are that old and
you have gone through that many drafts, forty plus years
of breaking down the all twenty two. We have spent
the past month and a half basically on tape Heeds
(00:48):
Draft Season crawling behind the xes and oh's not doing
the mock draft so much, but trying to give you
as much of a real insider perspective on how teams
of value players, on how they put their board together
when the hay is final in the barn, the way
teams are going to approach Thursday night and the rest
of the draft through the weekend. And we're gonna have
(01:10):
episodes of this podcast that will drop every day this week.
So normally we do them on Tuesdays and Thursdays. The
immediacy of the draft now happening on Thursday night, Greg,
We're gonna get your material every single day, so you're
gonna have new podcast leading up to the draft and
also then reaction podcasts to the draft each weekday this
week and uh, you know what, we're at the finish line, right,
(01:32):
I mean you've said that by the time you get
to this point as an NFL team, you might as
well even just send your coaches home because the board
is basically set or is there still some tweaking that
can happen all the way up until that first card
is turned in on Thursday night. Well, I know for
a fact, Bob, that a lot of teams did send
their coaches home. The coaches were gone last week because
(01:54):
boards are done. And I think at this point, barring
any new piece of information that's unfortunate for particular player,
uh that comes out you know this week leading up
to the draft, that pretty much nothing is going to change. Uh.
Let's put it this way. I've not been in a
draft room, so I don't know exactly how they do it,
(02:15):
but my sense is nothing should change if you're changing now,
then you're not really comfortable with your own convictions because
obviously the footage doesn't change from the season, the pro
days don't change. All the due diligence you've done doesn't change.
All this work is done, so really nothing should change
(02:38):
at this point. Having said that, though, there are still
a lot of varying opinions of the top guys on
the board, and we have done a deep dive into
some of the dark horse candidates even for Day two
and Day three of the draft, the guys that you
really might be able to look like a genius with
your friends watching the draft, when all of a sudden
you start breaking down a player using great costell stolen information,
(03:02):
and you know, I'm those diamonds in the rough. But
let's circle back now to the top of the board.
Let's get to some of the biggest names. And I
think the most perplexing position is wide receiver, because there
are three or four wide receivers that people believe could
go off the board, if not in the top ten,
certainly in the top fifteen. At the same time, we
(03:23):
keep hearing about how incredibly deep the talent pool at
wide receiver is. How you should be able to find
a really good wide receiver later in the draft. So,
if you have a top ten pick, are these guys,
in your opinion, collectively worthy of that type of a
reach because you know teams are gonna take them, unless
(03:43):
you know, you start to think to yourself, well, you know,
maybe I can use my draft capital to back out
of the top ten to pick a wide receiver later
on in the first in the second round. How do
you break this group down, especially the guys who I
think we're going to hear their names called early on
Thursday night. Well, I think because this is a different year,
and by different year, I mean we're not going to
(04:05):
have three or four quarterbacks taken in the top ten. Um,
there's going to be I think a wide variance in
the way people view the prospects that are considered top
five or top ten prospects in this particular draft, because
you can only draft who's in this draft. So I
think that the same will be said for wide receivers. Um.
(04:26):
I know that many think that the receiver that I
have is my number one is controversial, and that's fine.
I've spoken to teams who absolutely agree that George Pickens
is the best receiving prospect in this draft now, because
he had didn't play last year until the very end,
and that was just a select number of snaps, and
(04:46):
because of other things that I don't know about, but
I'm told about that he may not be that guy.
But I'm starting to get the sense that the way
teams think is big play Bob and Jamison Williams, although
he may not be ready Week one, when you have
game changers, impact players who can score, you know, in
(05:08):
some ways, it's the it's the Tyree Hill theory. It's
the idea that what are you trying to get accomplished
in the NFL. You're trying to get accomplished now on offense,
big explosive plays that score, and that forced the defense
to have to play you a certain way, and that
makes the defense predictable, and that's what offenses want. So
(05:28):
I think as we get closer and again, you and
I don't know what's going to happen Thursday night. Of
course we don't, but you know, just from conversations I've
had and seeing the way through my film study, over
the last number of years, the league has evolved. I
think the big play, explosive receiver is really of tremendous
value right now. There are guys on this board, though,
(05:52):
that have completely different body types, without question, completely different
skill sets. They make big plays, but they make big
plays happen in different ways. Right Like you said, George Pickens,
you think he is and you might be an outlier,
but you've got teams in the league that are telling
you that they agree with you, that they think that
he might be the best pure prospect in this draft.
(06:13):
But the other guys like Garrett Wilson, Chrystal Lave, Drake, London,
uh Traylon Burke's, Jamison Williams, John Dotson, all of these
guys on a lot of boards are rated up, if
not high in the first round, certainly capable of going
in the first round. Do you have a name or
(06:34):
two out of that group that maybe you've circled back
to and maybe formed a little bit of a different
opinion of than when you first looked at them back
even six or eight weeks ago when we started breaking
these prospects down, because I think wide receiver was one
of the first position groups that we tackled, wasn't it.
It was one of the first episodes we did. We
dug into the wide receivers. Yeah, it's it's not a
(06:54):
matter of revisiting, but just thinking it through. UM. I
really like Garrett Wilson quite a bit. UM. I really
think that he uses higher level receiving traits UM, and
I think he gives you inside outside flexibility. I think
that's very important today's NFL because you want to be
in a position where you don't have to feel like
(07:16):
players have to line up in a specific spot because
that makes it easier to defend, you know, and us,
of course you have an unbelievably great receiver like a
Cooper Cup who tends to line up in the slot. Uh,
probably a higher percentage of the time. But I think
that Garrett Wilson, to me, he's about six ft, he's
one eight three. You know, maybe you'd like him to
(07:38):
weigh a little more, but I think he is the
receiver UM that really stands out in terms of how
he can be deployed in an NFL offense. And you know,
you mentioned about wide receivers in general. You know, keep
in mind that so many teams now are playing out
of eleven personnel, meaning they have one back, one tight end,
(07:58):
and three wide receivers. The Rams they won the Super Bowl,
they played out of eleven personnel over eight of their
offensive snaps. So I think the league has really moved
in that direction. And you always need receivers, and you'd
like to have receivers that you can line up in
different locations within your offense. And Garrett Wilson is that guy.
(08:22):
Thinking also about the top ten, and obviously I call
Jets games. Two of the top ten picks are owned
by the Jets. They have a young quarterback that you
know they want to support, and their general manager has
not just like surreptitiously publicly gone out and pursued big
time wide receivers in this offseason and has not yet
(08:43):
been able to add one. There are a lot of
Deebo Samuel rumors going on with the Jets right now.
Another team in Carolina, you know they've got good skill guys,
but not top end wide receivers. Um they still have
Sam Donald. They may draft a quarterback who knows, uh
you have you know Atlanta that might be the market
for a quarterback. Seattle Lot obviously has made a quarterback change.
(09:07):
Taking a look at the top ten, some of the
teams I just ran through, which teams do you think
might prioritize wide receiver or might prioritize either going in
a different direction, maybe taking one of those quarterbacks go
to quarterback be reached for. I mean just the general
concept of how the top ten to top twelve fall,
because we're wondering if these wide receivers are gonna come
off the board. But different teams obviously are gonna have
(09:30):
different ways of approaching the top ten based on their needs. Yeah,
and I would think that in the first round, and
that's what we're talking about, we're talking about first round players.
I would think that your team absolutely needs to prioritize
a wide receiver. Um. They drafted one in the second
round a year ago, when Elijah Moura player. I like,
they obviously signed Corey Davis. He's solid. But I think
(09:52):
when you have a young quarterback, there's two things you'd
really like to make sure you do. Number One, you'd
like to make sure that your offensive line is solid.
And I think they addressed that certainly with Lake and Tomlinson,
who'll started guard. And I think they feel very good.
You would know better than I being there. Uh, they
feel very good about Vera Tucker. Um. I guess Beckton
(10:14):
becomes the question mark, but I think you want to
make sure that on the outside you have some threats.
So I think they for sure. And then the other
team and I believe they draft eighth, and I think
they have many needs. But right now, if you look
at the Atlanta Falcons, I would bet that you'd be
hard pressed unless you're a Falcons fan, to tell me
(10:35):
their top three receivers. So I think that they absolutely
need to address the wide receiver position, which doesn't mean
they'll address it at pick eight, but they there certainly
will be a wide receiver at eight that they have
rated highly on their board. I mean, right now, if
you look at their wide receiver position, they have Audent eight,
(10:58):
Demere Bird, and Zachias Olamaday Zechias. Those are their three
top wide receivers right now. Um, unless you want to
count Kyle Pitts as one as well, and he probably
is to some extent, but that that's their wide receiver
trio as there as we speak this week. Bob, that's
great co sell on Bobo shoes and the wide receivers.
(11:19):
There is such depth of talent at that position, but
still you've got these top end names. Who else might
be picked in and around the top ten. If it's
not a wide receiver. What position group might bump the
wide receivers down? Could be the tackles, could be the
pass rushers, could be the corners. And will a quarterback
or two sneak their way into the top ten? Will
(11:41):
teams reach the teams that need one? Could that happen?
We will straight ahead continue to tell you the top
names that you're going to hear called on Thursday night
and what teams will be calling those names when we
come back on TAPEDS Draft season. Back on TAPEDS Draft season,
(12:01):
Bobo Shoes and Greg co Sell, and we just dug
into the wide receivers, and it is a strange economy,
as we said, with that position group top heavy, we expect,
as you said, three or four names to go possibly
in the top ten. But also there's a depth of
talent that's probably not true at some of the other
position groups that a lot of mock drafts will tell
(12:22):
you guys that are gonna go in the top ten.
So as you have dug deeper into, let's say start
with the pass rushers back about six or eight months ago,
maybe last year. Cavon Thibodeau was thought to be the
no brainer number one pick in this draft. Now I
don't think anyone has him anywhere as being the number
one pick on the board. If it is a pass rusher,
(12:43):
everyone seems to be leaning towards Aidan Hutchinson. Maybe it's
a tackle, you know, maybe the idea for Jacksonville is,
let's protect Trevor Lawrence, the cover corners, the Stingley's, the
Sauce Gardeners of the world. We expect to also be
drafted very very high. There's only ten picks in the
top ten, right we probably just named with the wide receivers,
with the ass rushers, with the corners, with the tackles,
(13:06):
not even having gotten the quarterbacks. About twenty possible names.
Someone's dropping out of the top ten. So which position
group do you think is going to maybe create that
early run. Isn't going to be those pass rushers as
so many are speculating. Maybe all the way up at
the top. You know, it's funny because I think there's
a sense that Trayvon Walker is going to go very high.
(13:29):
And Trayvon Walker is a very intriguing player because he's
not a true edge rusher, but he could become one
over time. He fits more of the mold. And I'm
certainly not making a comparison to this particular player who
just got into the Hall of Fame. I'm only mentioning
him because of the way Trayvon Walker I think would
(13:49):
be seen by teens, and that's Richard Seymour. Of course,
Richard Seymour just got into the Hall of Fame and
he was three d fifteen pounds um. Trayvon Walker is
not three fifteen pounds. He's about to seventy. But if
you're thinking about a player that can line up all
across your defensive front and has a complete skill set
with pass rush traits that are probably still developing and evolving,
(14:13):
he's the player. I think when we started talking about
this four or five weeks ago, Bob, there was no
sense that Treyvon Walker would be in the discussion as
a top pick or a top three pick in the draft.
And you I remember bringing up Jermaine Johnson as well, Yes, Hutchinson, Thibodeaux.
They got all the headlines, not just Walker. Also Jamaine Johnson,
(14:36):
even a David a. Jabo coming off of a major injury,
has very unique pass rushing skills, someone that probably could
have been a top ten consideration before the injury. But
Jermaine Johnson, I mean from your analysis and even some
teams you may be talking to, is he still thought
of as being maybe the dark Corse candidate to be
(14:57):
the best pass rusher in this class. I think he's
a little bit all over the board for people. Um
And again I looked at his tape in great detail,
so I have my viewpoint based on tape study. He's
a player that I really really liked. I think, you know,
that's the thing about this draft. I think Jermaine Johnson
could be a top five pick, or it could be
(15:18):
go between twenty. And I think because of this particular
class of pass rushers, I don't think anybody sees one
at the level of a must have. So I think
now you're getting into the eye of the beholder team
and scheme specific how they plan on deploying that particular player. Um.
(15:40):
You know, we've seen someone like Cavon Thibodeaux. Cavon Thibodeau
has great get off, He's a powerful man. Um, he
does not have great bend when you get to the
top of the arc. We talked about the fact that
he's not really flattened his rush path kind of pass rusher.
We saw him on tape when you watch the Oregon tape,
play inside and beat guards much in the same way
(16:03):
Jadeveon Clowney has done well in his career in the
NFL because it's turned out he's not truly an edge
pass rusher either. So I think it's how teams envision
these players within the context of their defense. Even someone
like Aiden Hutchinson, who I think is going to be
a very good pro. We saw him move inside at
(16:24):
times in the Michigan defense, so I think you're dealing
with versatility more than the one guy who is Wow,
he is such a good edge pass rusher, we absolutely
have to have him. Is there a team in the
top ten and a player in the top ten, maybe
a team in the top five if these guys you
think legitimately the Thibodeaus and Hutchinson's and maybe even the
(16:45):
Walkers or Jamaine Johnson's might be in conversation for the
top five top seven. Is there a marriage between team
and player in your opinion that makes the most sense.
A team that should be targeting a specific guy because
he's the right fit for what they need. And as
you said, this is a lot of times based on schematic,
based on system, based on coach's belief in playing a
(17:07):
certain way. What's the best marriage. Do you think pass
rusher to team high on the draft? Well, that's a
great question. Um, I'd be very curious what the Houston
Texans are going to do. They've got so many needs. Okay,
so they're a team that could go in any direction.
But we know that love E Smith is their head coach.
And what do we know about Lovey Smith? We know
(17:29):
that in his career, and he made some adjustments a
year ago because he had to. But at his core,
what love Ee Smith wants to do is rush for
and play coverage. He's been a cover to coach much
of his career. As I said, he had just make
some adjustments last year because he had to just based
on his personnel. But he would like to rush for now.
(17:51):
I'm not sitting here saying because we don't know that
he absolutely is going to take a pass rusher, but
I think they're a wild card in terms of pass rusher.
Obviously many people have them taking an offensive alignment. They
certainly need a corner as well, so they're all over
the board. It's why they're drafting third. But at love
The's core. He wants to be able to rush the
(18:13):
quarterback with four you know, so is there a pass
rusher in play for him? I would think there would be. Um,
you know, Aidan Hutchinson to me is probably the the
I hate to use this word, but people use it
the safest because I think he will be a very
good pro. Maybe not a dominant pro. You know, there's
(18:33):
not He's not t J. Watt when you talk about
edge pass rusher, but I think he's a very consistent
edge player who you can move inside in your sub fronts.
Same question with the tackles, right, you've got a quanto,
he's probably. It seems as we've gone further and further
in this draft, and I remember all the way back
(18:54):
we had some guests on I think Jeff Hafley actually
we brought him on from Boston College, mentioned the quantum
thinking he was the best tackle in the draft that
he plays with just that nasty. I want to finish you.
I want to block you to the wall of the stadium.
If you're the guy, that's my responsibility. He's that type
of a player. Obviously, there are a couple of other guys, um,
(19:15):
that are in this mix as well. Towards the top
of the draft. You've got Neil Um. You know, let's
see who else we got on our list too that
I want to talk to about Neil. Charles Cross certainly
is up there. Um. I guess maybe at second level,
like a Tyler Smith. Um. You know there there are
guys that I think we're also gonna hear some tackles
called up on the top of the draft. So give
(19:37):
me a marriage. But you think maybe with the young
quarterbacks like the Zach Wilsons and you know, Trevor Lawrences
of the world. I mean, as you said, if you're
picking in the top five, top seven, top ten of
a draft, you need a lot like by definition, you're
a team that needs a lot of different things. But
if you have a young quarterback, I would think it
has to be very tempting to spend it a pick
on a guy to protect him. Well, the biggest question
(19:59):
is where do you play him. There are many teams
in this league that of Iguannu as a guard not
a tackle. Now, I think you can start him at
tackle and see how it goes. But if you put
him at guard. You know, there are certain players that
came into this league that were drafted high. Brandon Sheriff
is a name that immediately comes to mind. He was
a left tackle at Iowa. Washington drafted him and immediately
(20:23):
put him at guard and he became an All Pro guard.
Iguana who has elite size, length, power, and the mindset
to play guard. He does not have the ideal traits
to play tackle, even though that's what he played for
the most part of North Carolina State. And I believe
that more than likely he will he will be drafted
(20:44):
as a tackle. But he's a little straight legged, he's
a little lower body stiff. He's not ideal for the
tackle position. So I am very curious. You know, I
mentioned Houston. They obviously need a tackle as well, um,
so I don't know how they see Iguana. You could
even talk about Jacksonville. We've heard that there's four players
(21:06):
that sort of were in the running for their first pick.
They could view Iguana, who as a guard, because they
just signed Cam Robinson who will be their left tackle.
So but but tackles could start going off the board
because you're going to have the top three with the Kwando,
Neil and Cross and then you're going to get into
(21:27):
the Trevor Pennings of the world players like that who
could easily start to come off the board. Corner that's
the other position group that seems to be collectively thought
of as being, you know, star driven. In this draft,
you've got Sauce, Gardner and Stingley right there, guys that
we are expecting to hear their names in the top
(21:48):
ten as well. We're starting to run out of spots
in the top ten. But it does seem to be
wide receiver, multiple guys, tackle, as we said, multiple guys,
pass rusher, multiple guys, cornerback, multiple guys. So which teams
do you think in the top and are gonna be
looking at Gardner, looking at Stingley? That might be the
marriage for those guys specifically, Well, the Detroit Lions need
(22:10):
corners and they draft too. Now again, then you get
caught up in should a player go it too? In
other words, could Sauce Gardner or Stingley go it too?
And then people started with oh, that's too high. Well,
you know, if you haven't need and I come back
to the conversation we had with Mike Tannenbaum. You know
a number of weeks ago with need versus must, at
(22:31):
some point you have to line up with players or
you can't play. So it doesn't matter if if let's
say Sauce Gardner, Let's say he's the fourth player on
your board, but you're the Lions at two and you
really need a corner or you feel like you literally
can't line up and be competitive, there's nothing wrong with
taking him at two, UM, and I think Gardner and
(22:51):
Stingley will end up being the top two corners off
the board. And then you start to get into how
people think about the Trent McDuffie's of the world. You know,
Trent McDuffie's the owner from Washington, and I think I
think he's a really good prospect. Um. Now he's got
some things in his game that could scare some teams, Bob,
(23:13):
So maybe he's not a top ten pick. Even though
his tape is really, really good. He's a little shorter
than you like. His arm length is right on the
edge of where corners are viewed in this league, because
when you get below a certain point, corners are not
drafted with arm length below I believe it's twenty nine
inches and McDuffie is just above that um. But Trent
(23:35):
McDuffie is a really good prospect um. You know. Then
you get into his teammate Kyler Gordon, who I think
could also be a first round pick. So corners can
go because the reality is, it's interesting we're talking corners
and wide receivers because wide receiver and corner they tend
to be the two most drafted positions every year simply
(23:57):
because of the way the league is going. If you're
a defensive coordinator, you never have enough quality corners. Yep.
And it makes sense, and we've kind of tackled the
positions where we think multiple guys are going to be
drafted potentially in the top ten, top twelve or so.
But there are some wild card one offs at certain
positions that I want to get to next. Some guys
(24:20):
that may be the only guy at their position that
gets drafted in the top ten or the top fifteen.
But are guys that certainly could throw a monkey wrench
into how most people are prognosticating the top ten, top
fifteen will go. We're just a few days away from
the NFL Draft. You get a new episode of Tape
Heeds Draft season every day leading up to the draft,
(24:41):
as well as Friday after Round one. I'm Bobo Shusan
with Greg Cosell. And we also haven't touched on the
quarterbacks yet, and the quarterbacks are always lurking, even in
a bad quarterback draft quote unquote, as you know, a
possible wild card, right like guys that could be reached
for guys that could turn into top ten surprises. So
we're gonna get to some of the one offs, some
(25:02):
of the players we have and spent a lot of
time on, and the quarterbacks when we come back on
TAPEDS Draft season. Back here on TAPEDS Draft Season, Bobo
Shoos of Greg co Sell leading up to Round one
of the NFL Draft on Thursday night. Finally at the
finish line, finally we're going to actually see some cards
turned in and hear the names called. And Greg, we're
(25:24):
gonna do a deeper dive into all of the quarterbacks
coming up in our Wednesday episode. But this is kind
of the one off segment, right Like, I'm looking for
the guys that you think are going to be wild
card players that could appear in the top ten, that
haven't gotten as much conversation about them because they're not
part of the group of corners, the group of wide receivers,
(25:46):
the group of tackles or pass rushers, the guys that
we think are all in play in the top ten.
And then there's two other names that I want to
bring up specifically that I also think our players we
haven't spent probably as much time as we should on
because they're kind of one off guys. So if they're
was a quarterback, one guy that you think a team
(26:07):
might reach for in the top ten and surprise everyone,
who do you think that might be. Well, I'm gonna
play off your word reach, and I think that player
would be Malik Willis. Now, he would not be my
number one rated quarterback in this draft class, but I
think the reach is the key word here, because Malik
Willis gives you something that coaches now seem to put
(26:29):
a higher premium on than ever before, Bob, and that's
the ability to make those special secondary action improvisational plays. Now,
then you have to decide, and this is where it
gets to coach and therefore team specific as to the
value of that and the balance between that and being
(26:50):
too able to execute the offense as designed. And and
that's the question that is. It's it's not a numerical,
quantitative answer to that question. It's very much open to
discussion and to one's point of view. But I think
there's a sense amongst people, right or wrong, that if
(27:10):
Malik Willis would reach whatever his potential, maybe that he
has that special quality to do the kinds of things
that help you win in big games. And I'm not
I'm not making a direct one to one comparison to
Josh Allen because I personally think Josh Allen is the
most physically gifted quarterback in the NFL, believe it or not,
(27:33):
actually said that a year ago before the season, and
I think it kind of played out towards the end
of the season. Um, But I think there's a sense
that those kinds of plays that a Josh Allen can make,
if Malik Willis can get to that point, then you
have someone who's truly special. So he's the quarterback that
(27:54):
I think is probably generating the most discussion in draft rooms.
We're gonna talk more about Milik Willis in our next
episode when it drops, and we're gonna talk about the
entire quarterback class because quarterbacks obviously always draw the headlines
even in what is thought to be a weak quarterback draft,
and Malik Willis can't he pick it. These are names
we've spent a lot of time on and guys that
(28:16):
could be reached for and could appear in the top ten.
But here's two other guys before we wrap up this
episode that I want to bring up. And obviously Kyle
Hamilton's has been talked about by some as being worthy
of like a top two or top three pick in
this draft. Um Robert Salo, of course with the Jets,
was asked about whether or not Kyle Hamilton's would just
(28:36):
be too talented to pass up at number four. He
did not close the door on that possibility way back
when called him a unicorn. Right, So, safety is a
weird position. Some teams safety could be the m v
P of their defense. Can cover the tight end, can
be moved all over the field if in combination with
the rest of your defensive parts, you can take that
(28:58):
guy and turn him into a true nightmare Swiss Army
knife and put him everywhere. Some team they might just
want safety back in center field because their corners might
not be very good. Right, Like, you really need to
get a guy like that paired with the right team,
the right system, and the right personnel. But where do
you think Kyle Hamilton's in the end might be kind
of a fly in the ointment in the top ten
(29:19):
for some of these other you know, position groups where
we're predicting all of these guys to go high. Well,
if you take the belief that Kyle Hamilton's is a
rare physical talent, which he is. He's six four and
an eight to twenty, and he is a do it
all safety, okay, he he He has all the needed traits, Bob,
to handle all the responsibilities of the safety position in
(29:41):
the NFL. And you really hit on an important point.
I personally believe, based on all the tape study I
do during the NFL season for the NFL matchup show
that safety is a really important position in the league
right now. And I think the teams that don't see
it that way, and and I'm not saying teams do.
I don't know the answer to that. I don't know
(30:01):
the discussions and draft rooms, but I think we've reached
the point where it's pretty self evident that safety is
a critical position and Kyle Hamilton's can do everything you
ask of a safety now it's always easy to say.
I love when people say, well, a team has to
figure out how to use them. I'm not sure exactly
what that means, because he can do everything you want
(30:22):
him to do, so you can line him up in
multiple positions. To me, I watched him and he's actually
a bigger man. I thought he was very similar to
the way I thought of Derwin James in terms of deployment.
James is probably twitchier and more short areas sudden, and
Hamilton's is more straight line fluid with more range. But James,
(30:43):
when you see the way he was deployed in the
Chargers defensive year ago, he did everything. Hamilton's is the
same guy. You can do everything with Kyle Hamilton's and
to me, that makes him an extremely valuable player who
is absolutely worthy of being taken in the top five.
Another player that has been and I think debated back
(31:05):
and forth a ton and I'm not sure we did
a deep dive into him because we didn't do interior
offensive lineman and there may not be but one interior
offensive lineman that you and many other you know draft
analysts have a really high, potentially high first round grade
on but Tyler linder Bob a center right like he's
(31:27):
seen and maybe he plays guard, maybe he stays at center.
I'm not sure, but we've spent a lot of time
talking about the tackles. I'm not sure I ever got
a deep dive from you on linder Bomb and what
you think about him? And Hi, you how high you
think he might go? Yeah, and I think, look, everybody
knows his tape is really good, and then he's a
really good prospect. But he blew people away at his
(31:49):
pro day with the kind of numbers that you just
don't see from that kind of build. So he is
a really good prospect. He's a great athlete. He's got
incredibly light feet, great balance and body control. He was
a high school slur, so you know he's got core strength. Um,
he's the term we like to use that he has
(32:09):
is snapped two step quickness. It's really good. He's a
great zone run blocker, and he can execute what are
called reach blocks, which are extremely difficult blocks to execute
in the zone run game, and you need movement and
flexibility to do that. And he's really good. To me,
he's a high level center prospect. There have been a
(32:31):
lot of comparisons made to Jason Kelsey because they're both
smaller centers, but they're extremely athletic. Um Normally you don't
think of centers going in the top fifteen. But again,
you know, if if you feel that you draft him
and he's your guy and you're gonna sign him to
a second contract and he's your guy for seven, eight,
(32:52):
nine years, I think you feel pretty good about that.
Do you think he is worthy of the top ten?
I mean, is he that talented compared to how your
analysis breaks down of some of these other position groups
and how deep they can be. Well, here's the way
I answer that kind of question. And it's always interesting
to me when people say a player or a position
(33:14):
shouldn't be drafted in a certain spot. So if you're
a team that, let's say, does not have a very
good old line, and I guess you could look at
a number of those teams in the top ten that
fall into that category, and you don't address the old
line because people say, well other than tackle obviously, because
people say, well, you don't draft a guard or a
(33:36):
center that high. And then all of a sudden, Bob
and you've been through this with the Jets, and all
of a sudden you get to Week five and one
of the reasons your offense isn't very good is because
your old line isn't any good. Then that's what the
issue is. So the issue isn't what position group do
you take in the draft at the end of April.
The issue is when you get into this season and
(33:57):
you can't pass protect or you can't run block, that
becomes the issue. So you can it's always easy to say,
don't draft this position, why do that? But if you
then you get to the games and that's the reason
you're losing, that's a problem. It's not sexy. But I'll
tell you this from firsthand perspective and firsthand experienced. The
(34:20):
last time the Jets were any good, they had Nick
Mangold at center and they had to Britashaw Ferguson at
left tackle, and they drafted them both in the first
round about a decade and a half ago. I mean,
keep this in mind, and you were doing the Jets
and uh, the year Sanchez his first two years as
a starter, Okay, it was two thousand nine and two
thousand and ten, they went to back to back championship
(34:40):
games with a quarterback that absolutely produced like bottom five,
bottom seven numbers at quarterback. The first year, they led
the league in rushing because he was there. The second year,
I believe they were third in rushing. So again we
consider here and say, well, that's not the NFL game. Now,
that's irrelevant. The point is is that if your old
(35:01):
line isn't any good and and that's why this year
was so strange with the Cincinnati Bengals, and and I
don't know how to put that into a capsule yet
and maybe no one does, but if your old line
is really bad, it's really tough to play offense. Yeah,
I would look at the Bengals as the outlier, and
I would look at the example of the Chiefs the
(35:22):
past couple of years of when we saw the deterioration
of their offensive line and saw Patrick Mahomes running for
his life starting in the Super Bowl a couple of
years ago, and at times this year, and how hard
even the most talented quarterback in the league, maybe the
most complete package of athleticism, you know, creativity, accuracy, everything
(35:43):
you'd want in a quarterback. You could make the argument
your package together and it becomes Patrick Mahomes. If the
guys up front aren't effective blocking for him? What what
does it look like? I agree. So that's why it's
easy to sit here, you know, and people like you
and I and you know, hopefully people like what they hear,
but it's easy for people like us to sit here
(36:04):
and say things like, well, you don't draft that position
at that spot, but you know, I have the opportunity
fortunately to talk to coaches, and when you don't have
players at certain positions, that limits what you can do,
and then you become so much easier to play against,
whether it's on the defensive side of the ball or
the offensive side of the ball. There's no question. Look,
(36:25):
we're gonna be back tomorrow. We'll have a Wednesday edition
of Taped's Draft Season to drop, and it will be
time to take a deeper dive into all of the quarterbacks.
Who is ready to step onto an NFL field next
season as a rookie, who's a project, who's worthy of
a reach, who might be a player that a team
might reach for and then find out they might regret
(36:47):
that decision if they do make that type of reach.
This is a fascinating quarterback class because you know these
guys will probably go relatively high. There will be some
quarterbacks names called in the first round, but there's a
lot of debate about how good this class US may
ultimately turn out to be. So our Wednesday edition with
Greg Cosal of tape Heeds Draft Season is going to
(37:10):
take that deep dive into the quarterbacks. Thank you for
being a tape ped Please rate, please subscribe, and we
will be joining you with our next episode dropping on Wednesday,
we'll dive into the quarterbacks. Looking forward to that on
tapeds Draft Season
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