April 29, 2022 • 39 mins
The Tape Heads: Draft Season podcast recaps the first night of the NFL Draft looking back at all the Round One picks. Bob Wischusen and Greg Cosell discuss the pass game still being the #1 priority in the league, even when only one QB was taken. Greg points out that the top picks were about protecting the passer, completing the pass, or stopping the pass. The guys don't think it's right to grade drafts because every team has their own boards and hold players in different regards depending on their needs. We discuss the talent drafted by both the Giants and Jets and the number of moves made after the first ten picks. We wrap up looking ahead to the Second Round of the Draft and all the talent that's still available.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Tape Eds. It's a production of I Heart Media and
the NFL. Welcome to Tapeds Draft Season, Bobo Shoes and
longtime radio voice of the New York Jets and a
happy guy today alongside Greg Costell, the the longest tenured
film breaker downer at NFL Films. He's been breaking down
(00:24):
the all twenty two for the better part of four
decades plus. And Greg, we finally, after doing this podcast
for about two months leading up to the draft, speculating,
breaking players down, talking about the tape, digging inside how
teams put together their boards, last night we got the proof.
Last night, we saw the product. We finally have an
(00:46):
actual draft to talk about. And to me, there were
two themes and we'll take them one at a time.
I'll hit you with these. And I think, because you
have always said that the NFL Draft is kind of
a dichotomy. There's a draft for all the other players,
and there's a draft for quarterbacks. And I think the
headline last night at the top of the draft was
(01:10):
none of the quarterbacks were reached for. And to me,
that's where I think, I think it's interesting to start. Right.
We kept talking about Malik Willis and where would Kenny
Pickett go and at the end of the first round,
would someone reach for maybe a Sam Hall or a
Desmond Ritter. You know, there were Matt Corral And this
is the first draft I can remember. You might have
one off the top of your head. I can't remember
(01:32):
another where at the end of the first round. I
sat back and said, there's not one quarterback that went
higher than where I thought he would go. And there
were several quarterbacks that I can't believe didn't go that
never happened. So what does that tell you about how
the NFL views this particular quarterback class. They maybe played
(01:55):
a game of chicken and nobody bought because Kenny Pickett
probably the most accomplished, polished quarterback prospect of this draft.
I've went right where we thought he probably should go
to the Steelers in the twenties, and nobody else went.
How surprised were you with that? Well, you know, Bob,
I think there's a different way to look at it too,
now that you have said that. And and just so
people know, I didn't know you were gonna ask me
(02:16):
this question, so I'm hearing you. That was the whole point.
I was trying to throw a curveball and see how
you reacted. But if you think about the draft, okay,
you think about the defensive players that were chosen and
the offensive players that were chosen, even though they were
there were no quarterbacks taken until Kenny pick it at twenty.
What's the focus there? What are teams trying to do?
(02:37):
They're trying to rush the quarterback correct always, and they
need to protect the quarterback. So even though there was
not a quarterback who was available that was viewed as
that guy, it's still involves playing the pass game. It
still involves executing a pass game and defending a pass game.
(02:59):
So the past game is still clearly the number one
priority in the NFL, even though the quarterback position was
not viewed as the position. So you know, that's kind
of the way again, hearing your question, I'm thinking about
the offensive lineman three going in the first nine picks.
I'm thinking about the pass rushers. I'm thinking about the
(03:22):
corners Stingley and Gardener going three and four. Um, So
it's still ultimately about the past game in the NFL.
That's the way the teams view the league right now.
See the reason I have enjoyed this podcast so much
is because we've almost had a mind meld doing this podcast,
right like you and I think, seriously you've got and
I think exactly the same way. This is. I'll read
(03:44):
you verbatim a tweet that I put out last night
at thoughts. You know it's good, just random thoughts as
I was watching the draft that just to occupy my time,
and once in a while I would share a thought
ninety five last night right about the time I think
that Jordan Davis went with the third team picks to
the Eagles. All right, this was my tweet. There may
(04:07):
not have been any quarterbacks taken yet, but make no mistake,
this draft is still about quarterbacks. The top twelve picks
are all guys who either rushed the quarterback, protect the quarterback,
catch balls from the quarterback, or cover the the guys
that the quarterback throws to. Your rush offense. Your rush
(04:29):
defense not a big priority in two right, like Jordan
Davis was, and we expected him to be. He was
the first player off the board where you would say
there's a run stuffer. Now, he obviously will play a
part in the past game. Interior pass rush is a thing,
but the number one box that was checked for the
top twelve guys in this draft, every one of them,
(04:51):
none of them quarterbacks, but every one of them was
their impact on the pass game, either positively or negatively
for your offense or your defense. Right, it's either a
guy that's gonna go catch the ball, a guy that's
gonna cover the guy catching the ball, a guy that's
gonna block for the guy throwing the ball, or a
guy that's gonna rush the guy throwing the ball and
trying to tackle him. So it is. It is a
(05:13):
very very odd, as we said, dichotomy in this draft
where no one wanted to reach up higher than we
probably thought that the player was worth it to get
a quarterback. But at the same time, everyone drafts with
the quarterback in mind. How are we going to protect him?
Who are we gonna rush after him? Who are we
gonna give him to throw to? What guys are gonna
(05:34):
we want to go cover the guys he's gonna want
to throw too. It is so much a passing league.
And we saw that in the top twelve picks last night.
And and you and I both know this, okay, and
I hope this doesn't happen, but let's just be realistic. Okay,
if Sam Donald with the Panthers, who as we speak
today is their starting quarterback. If Drew Lock for the Seahawks,
(05:55):
who I assume as we speak today would be their
starting quarterback. If all of a sudden, after three, four
or five games of the regular season, both those quarterbacks
are playing very poorly. You know what you're going to
hear from their fan bases in the national media they
should have taken quarterbacks. You know how it works. So
I'm not saying they should or shouldn't have. They had
(06:15):
their board set. I don't question teams boards, and I'll
tell you why, Bob, because I know what I do. Okay.
I've watched tape probably fifteen hours a day, you know,
college players since mid January, so you know I evaluate players.
Teams do the same thing with far more people than me.
I'm a one person scouting service, So I don't say
(06:37):
teams do a good or a bad job. They do
a job. They do the job the way see fit.
Reasonable people can disagree about players. I have no problem
with that whatsoever. I've been wrong, like everybody has been wrong.
That's just the nature of the business. But obviously Carolina
and Seattle felt that there was not a quarterback worth
taking at six or nine, or they had a need
(07:00):
that's superseded a quarterback in this particular draft. And the
only way we're going to find out is when we
start playing football. Um Charles Cross will be the left
tackle for Seattle. Um Carolina at six took a quantu,
So um a quantu will He'll step right in and
be their left tackle. I am sure. So these two
(07:23):
teams addressed their left tackle position. And you know, ideally
there are two quarterbacks, Donald and locked Gino Smith. Whoever
Seattle decides to go with. I would assume lock Um
can function because in the minds of those teams, they'll
run the ball with McCaffrey and Rashad Penny and they'll
(07:43):
have uh, a quarterback that in their mind is just
an executor of an offense. Although we all know that
the league doesn't work like that. Your quarterback is going
to have to make throws sooner or later in this league, right. Well,
you know it's also funny. I got into it back
and forth with some Jets fans earlier yesterday, and I said,
you know, not me, right, And I said that there
(08:04):
was at least a chance that if a Quantu was
there at four, the Jets would think about taking him,
And Jet fans were like, well, if they do that,
that's a terrible sign for McKay Beckton. That means they're
giving up on McKay Beckton. That means that they think
they made a mistake last year. And I said, well,
two things. A. I mean, George Fant right now would
be their starting right tackle, and he's a free agent
(08:27):
after this year. I think they would like to resign him,
And certainly with what they did last night, it tells
you they want to resign him. But if they took
a Quantu, like the last time I checked in the NFL,
you need two of them, right, somebody plays right tackle,
somebody plays left tackle, and I do believe that they're both.
You know, with the way that teams now run offenses,
(08:47):
maybe not you know, fifty fifty, but fifty forty five
in terms of importance, like your right tackle better be
able to protect the quarterback nearly as well as your
left tackle. Again, I personally believe, not to interrupt you,
that there is no delineation anymore between the two positions.
The only don in theation is that the left tackle
protects the blind side. But in terms of traits needed
(09:09):
to play right tackle and left tackle, Bob, this is
not twenty five years ago where teams lined up in
base personnel on the tight end was always on the
right side of the formation, and the right tackle could
theoretically be less of an athlete. Just look at the
players that you have to protect against who come from
the left side of the defense. And also think about
what teams do now defensively with all their pressure schemes.
(09:31):
Your right tackle better be a really good pass protector.
He cannot just be a big road grader. And that
makes my point for me. And you're backing up the
point that I was making two Jets fans if they
took a quanu still having a guy like McKay Beckton
on their roster. Look what the Giants did at seven, Yeah,
I mean two years ago they took Andrew Thomas in
(09:53):
the top four. And what did they do last night
at seven? They took another one. They took Evin Neil,
who will now probably project to play right tackle. So
they're gonna have two top seven pit as, their two
bookend tackles to try and find out whether or not
their quarterback is the right guy, and they are going
to give him as much protection as possible so that
(10:13):
at the end of the day they need to know
whether or not Daniel Jones can do this and give
him the time to show whether or not he can
do this. And Neil did play right tackle in for
Alabama when Leatherwood was the left tackle, and as most
people probably know, the Giants at this moment did not
pick up Daniel Jones option. But let's say we go
into weeks seven or eight and the Giant offense is
(10:34):
humming and everything is good, then they'll they'll revisit that
with Daniel Jones. You know, they certainly have time to
do that. Um, but you're right. I mean all last
night's draft was still all about the passing game. It
just was not about the specific position of quarterback. All right.
We spent the first ten minutes or so here, twelve
minutes whatever, looking kind of wide angle lens at philosophically
(10:57):
how teams approached the first round. The quarterbacks were not
reached for, but yet everyone was drafting with the quarter
back in mind. When we come back, I want to
get to a couple of specific teams and what they did.
And I'm sure you probably know what team I'm going
to ask you about first, because you know my team
in green and white. They will end up starting next
year with three first round draft choices on the field,
(11:21):
all at potentially impact game changing position. Without question, they
were They were a big story last night, Bob, not
just because it's your team. They were a big story
and they can make plays to win you a game.
So I definitely want to get your take on that
and to dive into some other teams and how they
approached the first round, and then a little bit later
on before we wrap this episode up, because we've got
(11:42):
the rest of the draft still to look forward to.
If folks are listening to this today in anticipation of
what's happening tonight and going into tomorrow, I want to
talk about the best players that are still out there,
right because we did say, uh a couple of episodes
ago that we did we dig so deeply into the
first round. It's almost like the fans of the media
think the drafts over after the first draft. There's so
(12:06):
many good football players still out there that teams will
be grabbing tonight. There always are there, always are. They
just not the marquee names. YEP. So I want to
get some of those names from you as well. So
we still have a lot to do when we come
back here on TAPEDS Draft season. We are back on
TAPEDS Draft season. Bobo Schusen, longtime ESPN college football play
(12:27):
by play man, but also once in a while I
dabble in Sunday afternoon play by play with the New
York Jets. And I'm here with Greg Cosell as always
on TAPEDS draft season to dig inside the draft, behind
the war room, behind how the boards are put together,
and hopefully give you a deep dive into the NFL
draft and philosophically how teams approach it. And now we
(12:48):
actually have a draft to talk about the first round
of the books and Greg my teammate headlines. You know,
they set off a couple of flares last night that
they were real about trying to get game changing players.
And look, Joe Douglas traded Sam Donald traded Jamal Adams.
Those were wide angle lens down the road for the
(13:08):
future type moves. Well, the future has arrived, right and
like now now you have to hit on the picks.
Do you think they hit on the picks because a
couple of the guys that we're gonna be talking about now,
are guys, including Elijah Verrett Sucker last year, that are
the fruit of the tree of the trades that he made. Well, Bob,
the only way I can do that. I'm not one
of those people that think, soh, they should have done
(13:30):
this here, they could have gotten this guy there. I
just respond to what teams do, and all I can
do is tell you what my evaluation of the players are.
That's all I can do. And I really think that
the three players that they drafted, Sauce Gardner, Garrett Wilson,
and Jermaine Johnson, I had them evaluated as really really
high level prospects so to me before they even of
(13:53):
course step on the field an NFL field, I think
the Jets did extremely well based on my evaluation of
the players. Sauce Gardener will step right in and be
a starting cornerback for them, and they needed corners. I
don't know what they think about Hall at at corner.
He's a long, relatively athletic corner I don't think he
played poorly last year. You're probably a little closer to
(14:14):
that situation than I am, but I think you can
line him up as an outside corner opposite Sauce Gardener,
and then you have a lot of length on the outside,
which teams like. Um. You know, obviously they drafted Garrett Wilson.
Garrett Wilson to me was one of the top three
receivers in this draft class. I've made the comparison, which
I think is is valid to Stefon Diggs. I think
(14:36):
he can become that kind of player, a high level
receiver with inside outside flexibility and a vertical dimension. UM.
And then, of course Jermaine Johnson. We had spoken about
him a number of times in earlier versions of tape Heads,
and I would have said Johnson, even though I don't
do a board and make a list, I would have
said Johnson was one of my six or seven best
(14:57):
prospects in this draft. I can't speak to why he
was still there when the Jets traded up for him.
I don't know the answer to that, and I'll probably
never know the answer to that. But I felt based
on his tape, based on what I thought his tape
showed that he could become with coaching and further development,
I thought Jermaine Johnson was one of the six or
seven best prospects in this draft class. So to me,
(15:20):
based on my evaluations of the three players the Jets
took in the first round, I thought they did exceptionally well. Yeah,
and I'm wondering again to try and take the conversation
inside the war room, and we'll get to Johnson in
a moment, because I think he became the player they
traded up for to get towards the end of the
first round, because where they obviously had him on their board,
(15:43):
he had dropped far enough that they trusted their own evaluation.
And so you know, we are just now compelled to
go get this player right like he's in the twenties.
We think he's a top ten, top twelve player. This
is absolutely now worth one of those premium second round
picks that we have to move up, you know, the
dozen or so spots from the second round back into
(16:04):
the first round, and go get him. That aside, and
we'll talk about him in a moment. People were debating
whether or not Sauce Gardner, ikey Akwanu, whether or not
Garrett Wilson, or should they get an edge, And I think, again,
this is the conversation that happens inside that room, and
it's a conversation that happens all the way through the
draft process. I think the Jets are saying to themselves,
we could draft the franchise tackle in a quantu, or
(16:26):
we could take the cover corner and Sauce Gardener at four.
What do we have on our roster? We have McKay Beckton.
Yes he is injury prone, Yes we have questions about him,
but his ceiling is such that if he comes back
healthy and we keep coaching him, he can be a
franchise left tackle. We don't have a franchise corner right
(16:48):
like design DJ readon free agency. He's a really good player.
I don't think anybody is going to say he is,
you know, a shutdown number one, no doubt about it.
Franchise cornerback. There you go. So so now we're gonna
check a box for something on our roster we don't have,
right like, let's we have a guy we drafted two
(17:09):
years ago that we think can be, if we keep
him healthy, a franchise left tackle, and by taking Sauce Gardner,
to me, that is an endorsement of the future that
they still believe McKay Beckton has. And then they go
to ten. There were still edge players, including Jermaine Johnson
on the board, but they have Carl Lawson. Now, if
(17:30):
Carl Lawson comes back from his achilles, bang, you have
a pass rusher, you maybe you certainly want more. And
they went and traded up for Jamaine Johnson. But do
they have a no doubt about it, franchise number one
outside receiver. No, they do not. Elijah Moore really good,
versatile player, I think could be a star in the league.
(17:51):
Like him a lot. You know, Corey Davis is, you know,
he's a really good player. But do they have that
difference maker at the outside as the number one true
wide receiver. So I think that's the way they approached it.
They approached it from the standpoint of, we already have
a guy on the roster at left tackle and pass
rusher that could conceivably at both of those positions, be
(18:13):
that guy. We may not have that player at wide
receiver and corner. And I think that's the conversation, right
that happens in the war room and and heading up
towards the draft. What do we have and what can
we what can we turn what we have into as
opposed to what we don't have on the roster. And
we have to go get. You know, it reminds me
of the conversation we had a number of weeks ago
(18:35):
with Mike Tanninbound and the musts and the needs, because ultimately,
if you don't have corners in this league, you can
have a lot of other things on your team, but
if you cannot prevent explosive plays by the opposing offense,
it's very, very difficult to compete in this league. Um,
So basically, you know you can. The thing you can
do is you can scheme pressure. You know. Obviously they
(18:58):
did trade up for Johnson, who obviously I like. As
I've said, but as you and I both know coaches,
and Robert Salo is a very good defensive coach. You
can scheme pressure, but at some point you can't hide
bad corner play, and you ultimately need corners in this league,
and they really didn't have them. As I said, I think,
(19:18):
I think at this point they're probably comfortable with Hall. Um,
maybe maybe not. I don't know. As I said, you
might know more, but Sauce Gardner is clearly a number
one type corner and um, just listening last night, I've
obviously never seen him in person, but I was watching
the NFL network, and they were talking about when they
first saw him in person and just what he looks like.
(19:39):
That his arms are incredibly long, that he's got tremendous
length to him, just when you see him in person,
you know, in a suit. Um So, I think that
sauce Gardener to me. Um, I know that there's probably
a big debate in rooms about Stingley versus Gardner. I
liked Gardener just to touch more so. I thought the
Jets did extremely well. All right, let me get some
(20:00):
of the of the other teams that I thought made
really interesting move And when you get into that range
of eleven, like can eleven, twelve, thirteen, where teams like
the Saints, the Lions made a big move up to
go and get a receiver of an A C l
and Jamison Williams right, Jordan Davis lasted all the way
to thirteen. What teams surprised you with maybe what they did,
(20:23):
maybe the aggression that they showed. The minute that we
found out that the Lions were making that big move
up to twelve, everyone assumed it was for a quarterback,
and all of a sudden they go get a wide receiver.
So what did that tell you? Well, I think it
tells you um the value of explosive plays, which is
all I heard when I was at the scouting combine.
Bob is explosive plays, explosive plays. That's all coaches talked
(20:44):
about offensively. And Jamison Williams, when healthy and he will be,
is just a game changing player. And he's not just
a vertical dimension. That's the thing. Yes, he's the best
vertical dimension in this draft, but he is more than that.
There's some nuance, some subtlety to the way in which
he runs routes. All Alabama receivers because they're obviously very
(21:06):
well coached there, they all have that. So they basically said, Hey,
we need explosive plays in our offense. You can't compete
in the NFL without it. These days, you're not gonna
grind out twelve thirteen play drives. The league doesn't work
like that anymore, and we don't have that guy. And
this guy is as special as it gets in that regard.
(21:28):
So was it surprising, Yes, But I think when you
think about the NFL, not about the draft, bopsy. That's
the other factor which we've tried to talk about, is
that it's different talking about platitudes leading up to the draft,
where everybody has an opinion, and then the games themselves
when they're playing. And if you can't stretch the field
(21:48):
at all, your offense really has a problem. Plus that
you know what your quarterback is. Jared Goff is not
a bad player. For some reason, people don't like him.
No one's suggesting he's a top five quarterback. But if
you give him an old line, and they've got believe
three number one picks on their own line, if I'm
not mistaken, Um, I know they have two for sure. Um.
(22:09):
And uh, they obviously have drafted running backs because they
have Swift who they drafted. Um. And now you get
receivers and and Hockinson. I think they just reopt or
signed his tender or whatever that however that works. They
actually now are a team that has a lot of weapons.
And God is just an executor. So if you can
protect him and you can allow him to be an
(22:30):
executor of an offense, he can actually function fine. He
did that. He got to his Super Bowl doing that, Bob.
People seem to forget that. And for the Jets real
quickly back to the move that they made outside of
the Lions, probably the most aggressive move back into the
first round to get your main Johnson. Obviously they had
him where you had him rated, right like way up
(22:52):
towards the top of the first round. That's why they
made the aggressive move to go get him. My only
caution to Jet fans in terms of pumping the brakes
on a player that the mock drafts all at as
a top ten, top twelve player, and you got a
twenty six and now it seems like the steal of
the century is twenty five teams, including your team, twice
passed on him. So obviously the league didn't think that
(23:14):
he was a top ten player. Why do you think
the league maybe didn't think that he was a top
ten player where you and the Jets both obviously did.
I would love to have a brilliant answer to that,
and I don't only because I did. I mean I
saw him that way based on tape study, So I
don't know why. Um, could it just be the small
sample size that he just kind of had that one
(23:35):
signature year is that it's some people might say, hey,
you know he he was kind of a uh not
a backup player at Georgia the year before, because actually
his Georgia tape from twenty was very good. Um, that's
an impossible question. Like I said, I wish I had
a great answer, I don't because I can only speak
to my evaluation of the player. Um, and I'm trying
(23:57):
to think through the draft. Other than Jordan Davis, okay,
a defensive lineman, but not certainly not an age player.
After those early guys went that are considered edged players,
I don't believe another aged player went until Johnson corrected.
Am I missing someone? No? Basically, yeah, we it. It
(24:17):
was a mixture of It was a lot of wide
receivers obviously, like between Pick eight and pick like six
teams six wide receivers went, and then a couple of
corners and Trent McDuffie and Kayer elam Uh. Basically, if
you were either a corner, an offensive lineman, or someone
that played defense for Georgia, that was basically like the
whole second half. So I guess my My point is
(24:40):
is it's possible teams did have him rated more highly
but felt that they had other needs that were more pressing,
and they're still really good players. In other words, let's
just take the bills for instance. And I don't know,
and I'm not speaking with any inside knowledge. Let's say
the Bills had Jermain Johnson rated as their tenth best
player in the draft. But the Bills don't have a
corner opposite Tradavious White, right, So you know they might
(25:03):
love Jermaine Johnson, but they got a line up at
corner or they're gonna have a problem. So then they
make the trade up to twenty two because they saw
the Chiefs take McDuffie at twenty one. Then they said,
oh boy, we're not going to get a corner in
this draft that we really feel good about, so we
have to make this move. So we don't that that's
why we don't know exactly how teams had Johnson evaluated.
(25:26):
And one last quick question before we take a break
and then come back and spin it forward and talk
about who's still out there and the teams that could
still really improve themselves on Day two and Day three.
Anything else that surprised you from this first thread. I
thought this first round, like, I don't remember as I'm
watching it, outside of the big move that the Lions made,
the move the Jets made to get your main Johnson,
(25:48):
I don't know that there was another pick that jumped
out at me to say, wow, like that guy seems
out of place. That's a real reach in the first
round because the quarterbacks didn't go so one really reach.
I'll give you three things real quick. Number one I
thought were chrislave Win is per because if Michael Thomas
is healthy, he's the alpha dog, he's the boundary xt.
He can do all the dirty work. We we know
(26:10):
what we've seen from him over the years, obviously missed
last year, and I think that's a perfect place for
a love who, to me, is your absolutely perfect compliment.
I thought what the Eagles did with Jordan Davis is
fascinating because ultimately Davis is the one player as we
speak today that does not fit the mold of being
a past game player. Now, they may see him that
(26:31):
way down the road, and I'm sure they do, which
is why they made the pick. I would think they
want him to lose some weight. I would think they'd
want to work with him. Um. He's obviously a phenomenal
athlete in terms of the way he can move. Um,
but you don't draft a player what they did to
play fifteen or twenty snaps the game in your run
defense so they clearly see him as more than that.
(26:54):
We they could well be right. And the one final point,
I love what the Ravens did because they signed Marcus
Hamilton's in the offseason at safety and then they drafted
Kyle Hamilton's and you know what, safety is an extremely
important position now in the NFL, contrary to what some
others might believe. And now they're gonna line up with
Kyle Hamilton's and Marcus Williams as safety, and boy does
(27:17):
that give you a lot of versatility your safety position. Yeah,
very interesting. They may have to have that hard to
heart with Lamar Jackson because if you followed his Twitter
feed last night during the draft, he apparently did not
know they were going to trade Hollywood Brown and was
not a big fan of the Kyle Hamilton's pick based
on you know, all the little like angry faces he's
tweeting while his own team is out there making draft picks.
(27:38):
But that's the world we live in now. Today's player,
they that's it. They've got a highway to let their
own feelings out there instantaneously before you could get them
to stop from hitting send. So all right, when we
come back, final segment of this episode, we're gonna spend
it forward. I would like to get from great co
Sell's some gems that are still out there. Obviously there
are a ton because we've only had thirty two players
(28:01):
taken so far, so we will still talk about what
is to come in the NFL Draft when we come
back on Tapeds Draft season. We are back on Tapeds
Draft season, Bobo Shoes and Greg co Sell breaking down
the first round. But also as we have done, you know,
kind of a wide angle lens look at the first
round now spinning it forward to the second round and Gregg,
(28:24):
there are, including the quarterbacks, a lot of players still
on the board that if you checked out all the
mock drafts leading up to the draft, folks thought might
go in the first round and you still have like
the Texans picking fifth in the second round, the Seahawks
pick back to back, eighth and ninth, the Falcons pick eleven.
Those were teams that were on our radar that had
(28:47):
picks in the first round where you thought they might
spend one on a quarterback and didn't. Kenny Pickett was
the only player that went to the Steelers in the
first round at the premier position in the sport. So
what are you expecting before we move on to the
other positions, specifically with Malik Willis, you know, Matt Corral
the rest of this quarterback class. Do you anticipate and
(29:08):
would you be surprised if we didn't see those guys
start to come off the board to some of those
quarterback needy teams, now that maybe even they're surprised these
guys are still there in round two. Well, now you
get into I think how teams feel, truly feel about themselves. Look,
every team is going to tell you we're competing for
the super Bowl. We know that, Bob, that's that's you know,
you have to say that. But but you know, these
(29:31):
coaches and these personnel people, they've been doing this a
long time. They really know. So maybe teams like I
would not surprise me to see Atlanta take a quarterback.
I don't know which one that Arthur Smith would like
if he was there, Um, but I think you might
see them take a quarterback. Um. I I don't know
about Seattle. I would bet that Pete Carroll thinks they
(29:51):
can compete, so I'm not sure that he would do that.
I think he might want to take a player that
he believes can help them today. But as I look
at the list of some players that again I'm speaking
now of player is that I evaluated well. I really
like Arnold Ebicketty from Penn State. He's a pass rushing
d N slash outside linebacker. UM, he's still available, and
(30:15):
I think because he's a pass rusher, it would not
surprise me to see him go early. UM. Kyler Gordon,
the corner opposite Trent McDuffie at the University of Washington,
another player that I think has a lot of value
in today's NFL because he played outside and he played
in the slot at the University of Washington, and he
(30:35):
can play press man, he can play zone. He's a
very athletic kid. I think he's a player you could
see come off the board early. The question is the
run on wide receivers, will that continue? And who's next? Um?
Last night you heard about Sky More from Western Michigan,
Christian Watson from North Dakota State. I know for a
(30:56):
fact that the reason George Pickens, who to me, based
on film, is arguably the best receiver in this draft.
Obviously he was not drafted that way last night. UM,
but I know for a fact some teams had him
number one on the board based on his play on
the field. I have heard that there are concerns about
him in other areas, which I'm sure is the reason
he has dropped, But he's certainly available. Um, if you're
(31:19):
still looking for defensive lineman, I think Logan Hall from
the University of Houston, who I think is a three
technique but as the versatility to line up anywhere along
your defensive front in sub fronts. I really liked his
tape a lot. In fact, I liked his tape more
than Davantell Wyatt, who went to the Packers late in
the first round. So those are just some names that
(31:41):
immediately come to my mind. If you have some others,
I'll be you know, we can throw those out as
well well. Based on last night's first round, you would
have thought that everyone that could possibly be drafted off
the Georgia defense had been drafted. But the Kobe Dean
is still out there. Yes, right. He He plays that
kind of you know, non kind of quote unquote premier position.
He's not an edge rusher, he's not a corner. He's
(32:02):
a linebacker. But man, he is a sideline to sidebline
difference maker. He's gonna have a long NFL career. Someone's
gonna get him in the second round. I would think high.
So he is certainly a name that I would keep
my eye on. UM and David A. Jabo. I think
it's a really interesting player because he is in that
and John Metchi is still on the board wide receiver right,
they are kind of that second tier Jamison Williams type
(32:25):
where really bad injury but super super talented player. I
would think both of those guys have a chance to
go in the second round if the run on wide
receivers continues, or if someone looks at a job Bo
and says, you know what, let's rehab him for a year.
He's gonna be an edge rusher for us for a
long time to come. Yeah, and John Metchi is a
player I really liked. I I watched his tape last
(32:47):
summer from and then of course watched him this year
from one UM. He would not be viewed as explosive,
which is why I think he would drop anyway. I
don't know if he would ever have been a first
round pick even without the knee injury, but he's another
route technician I've made the comparison to Robert Woods, who
I believe was a second round pick when he came
(33:08):
out of usc UM. And I think Mitchi is going
to be a very good player. He's just not that
explosive receiver, although he can get vertical, but he's not
just fast by nature. Um. So John Mitchi is is
another player that's there. Um Then you start getting into uh.
I'll give you an example. I think Tray McBride, the
(33:30):
tight end from Colorado State, is going to go in
round two. I could well be wrong, but I think
when people really study his tape. While he's not quite
a Travis Kelsey or Darren Waller, I think in this
era of tight ends lining up all over your formation,
not just being attached players, but being detached from the formation,
Trey McBride did all that at Colorado State, even lining
(33:53):
up as the single receiver to the boundary, the boundary
acts and making difficult catches, running routes against safeties and corners.
It would not surprise me to see a team grab
Trey McBride because he can do that for you, all right.
And a couple of other guys that I think are
really interesting, because what are we doing right now, we're
still talking about the pass game. We're talking about edge rushers,
(34:14):
we're talking about quarterbacks, we're talking about receivers. We're talking
about tight ends that can stretch the field and go
catch the ball. We're talking about everyone that impacts the
past game. But when will we finally see the glamour
position when we were growing up running back? When I
think back to the eighties, the first guys that come
to mind for some of the stars that I grew
(34:36):
up watching Earl Campbell, Tony Dorset, Walter Payton. Right, I
mean like we we grew up in the era where
the running back was arguably the most important player outside
of the quarterback on your team. And now we could
well get into the second round, maybe middle late of
the second round, before a Briest Hall or Kenneth Walker
gets their name called, and maybe those guys primarily will
(34:58):
have their name called because teams feel like, hey, those
guys are really versatile, they can go catch the ball
in our passing game. That's probably just a continued evolution
of that position. When am I gonna hear a running
back or two come off the board, you know, and
and again just hearing you say that um, I'll be
very curious to know which running backs come off early.
(35:19):
Because you mentioned Kenneth Walker. I think Kenneth Walker right now.
And obviously I was not at his pro day, so
I don't know how he caught the ball. He was
not asked to do that during the games that I
watched for Michigan State, so I don't know how he
catches the ball. Maybe catches it well, but if you
don't see him that way, then you're basically drafting him
to be your feature back, and it I'll be very
(35:40):
curious to see what teams draft runner and what kind
of player they draft at running back because you you
have a James Cook from Georgia, you have her a
Shot White from Arizona State. They are really good receivers
as well, and it's very possible a team could say,
you know what, we're not gonna run our offense through
(36:01):
our running back. These guys are good in for runners
that if we gave them the ball twelve thirteen times
a game, we're fine. But they're really really good receivers
and they can really help us create matchups, create explosive
plays not only for them but for our wide receivers.
So I'm curious how the running backs shake out once
(36:21):
they start to come off the board. One final question,
any team that jumps out at you in terms of
the second round that's got the real estate? I mean,
looking at the pick order of the second round, it's
different than the first round. The Bucks, I know, have
multiple picks. They pick first to lead off the second
round than they have a late second round pick based
(36:42):
on trades. The Seahawks have the eighth and ninth pick
back to back in the second round, but it seems
like it's a much more even dispersedment. Bears have a
couple of picks. The Packers pick like twenty onest and
twenty seven. It looks like so there are some teams
that have multiple second round picks, but it's not that
top heavy. You know, the Jets are picking twice, the
Giants are picking twice, and the top seven. So is
(37:04):
there a team that you have your eye on in
the second round that you think of really helped themselves. Well,
the one team and I think I mentioned in a
moment ago with Seattle because I think what they do
given that they have, did you say the eighth and
the ninth pick in the second round? I believe you'd
be the eighth and the ninth picks of the second
round back to back. Yeah, I think that will tell
you a lot about how they see themselves. Don't forget
they're in a really tough division. So I think that
(37:26):
that will tell you how Pete Carroll and John Schneider
see the version of the Seahawks, because my guess is
Pete Carroll, given his age, is not really interested in
rebuilding or retooling. Or retooling is a different word, but
he's not interested in rebuilding and taking a year to
see what he has. That would be my sense, Bob.
(37:47):
I think that they're going to draft players that they
believe can step in and be contributors and important pieces
this year, which is why I'd be surprised, but I
could be wrong. Obviously, I'd be surprised if they took
a quarterback. I think with the eighth and ninth picks
in the second round, they are going to draft players
that they believe can line up tomorrow and help them.
(38:08):
That's Greg co cell. I'm Babo Shusan. Last night was
the headline making night, and it's a fun night. It's
the first round. But if you're like us, the real
football nerds. Right if you've listened to this podcast and
you've heard Greg take you all the way back from basically,
you know, the beginning of February or mid February, whatever
we was. We started recording these episodes all the way
now up through the actual draft itself, and he has
(38:31):
uncovered all of these guys that you're gonna eventually hear
their names called. Now it gets good. Right now the
football nerd now gets to dig in and watch Day
two and Day three and hear all of those names
and have a good feel of really, did your team
go out with those picks that make the difference, compile
the meat of your roster and help themselves. And when
(38:52):
we come back on Monday, we will have another episode
of Taped's draft season. We will dig deeper into what
happened the rest of the draft, So hopefully you will
join us then please rate to you subscribe, enjoy the
rest of the draft, and we will talk to you
after the weekend is over and get great. Co sells
entire take on how everyone did and the teams that
(39:13):
really impressed him. When we come back early next week
and drop our next episode of tape heeds Draft season
Tape Eds. It's a production of I Heart Media and
the NFL. Welcome to Tapeds Draft Season, Bobo Shoes and
longtime radio voice of the New York Jets and a
happy guy today alongside Greg Costell, the the longest tenured
film breaker downer at NFL Films. He's been breaking down
(00:24):
the all twenty two for the better part of four
decades plus. And Greg, we finally, after doing this podcast
for about two months leading up to the draft, speculating,
breaking players down, talking about the tape, digging inside how
teams put together their boards, last night we got the proof.
Last night, we saw the product. We finally have an
(00:46):
actual draft to talk about. And to me, there were
two themes and we'll take them one at a time.
I'll hit you with these. And I think, because you
have always said that the NFL Draft is kind of
a dichotomy. There's a draft for all the other players,
and there's a draft for quarterbacks. And I think the
headline last night at the top of the draft was
(01:10):
none of the quarterbacks were reached for. And to me,
that's where I think, I think it's interesting to start. Right.
We kept talking about Malik Willis and where would Kenny
Pickett go and at the end of the first round,
would someone reach for maybe a Sam Hall or a
Desmond Ritter. You know, there were Matt Corral And this
is the first draft I can remember. You might have
one off the top of your head. I can't remember
(01:32):
another where at the end of the first round. I
sat back and said, there's not one quarterback that went
higher than where I thought he would go. And there
were several quarterbacks that I can't believe didn't go that
never happened. So what does that tell you about how
the NFL views this particular quarterback class. They maybe played
(01:55):
a game of chicken and nobody bought because Kenny Pickett
probably the most accomplished, polished quarterback prospect of this draft.
I've went right where we thought he probably should go
to the Steelers in the twenties, and nobody else went.
How surprised were you with that? Well, you know, Bob,
I think there's a different way to look at it too,
now that you have said that. And and just so
people know, I didn't know you were gonna ask me
(02:16):
this question, so I'm hearing you. That was the whole point.
I was trying to throw a curveball and see how
you reacted. But if you think about the draft, okay,
you think about the defensive players that were chosen and
the offensive players that were chosen, even though they were
there were no quarterbacks taken until Kenny pick it at twenty.
What's the focus there? What are teams trying to do?
(02:37):
They're trying to rush the quarterback correct always, and they
need to protect the quarterback. So even though there was
not a quarterback who was available that was viewed as
that guy, it's still involves playing the pass game. It
still involves executing a pass game and defending a pass game.
(02:59):
So the past game is still clearly the number one
priority in the NFL, even though the quarterback position was
not viewed as the position. So you know, that's kind
of the way again, hearing your question, I'm thinking about
the offensive lineman three going in the first nine picks.
I'm thinking about the pass rushers. I'm thinking about the
(03:22):
corners Stingley and Gardener going three and four. Um, So
it's still ultimately about the past game in the NFL.
That's the way the teams view the league right now.
See the reason I have enjoyed this podcast so much
is because we've almost had a mind meld doing this podcast,
right like you and I think, seriously you've got and
I think exactly the same way. This is. I'll read
(03:44):
you verbatim a tweet that I put out last night
at thoughts. You know it's good, just random thoughts as
I was watching the draft that just to occupy my time,
and once in a while I would share a thought
ninety five last night right about the time I think
that Jordan Davis went with the third team picks to
the Eagles. All right, this was my tweet. There may
(04:07):
not have been any quarterbacks taken yet, but make no mistake,
this draft is still about quarterbacks. The top twelve picks
are all guys who either rushed the quarterback, protect the quarterback,
catch balls from the quarterback, or cover the the guys
that the quarterback throws to. Your rush offense. Your rush
(04:29):
defense not a big priority in two right, like Jordan
Davis was, and we expected him to be. He was
the first player off the board where you would say
there's a run stuffer. Now, he obviously will play a
part in the past game. Interior pass rush is a thing,
but the number one box that was checked for the
top twelve guys in this draft, every one of them,
(04:51):
none of them quarterbacks, but every one of them was
their impact on the pass game, either positively or negatively
for your offense or your defense. Right, it's either a
guy that's gonna go catch the ball, a guy that's
gonna cover the guy catching the ball, a guy that's
gonna block for the guy throwing the ball, or a
guy that's gonna rush the guy throwing the ball and
trying to tackle him. So it is. It is a
(05:13):
very very odd, as we said, dichotomy in this draft
where no one wanted to reach up higher than we
probably thought that the player was worth it to get
a quarterback. But at the same time, everyone drafts with
the quarterback in mind. How are we going to protect him?
Who are we gonna rush after him? Who are we
gonna give him to throw to? What guys are gonna
(05:34):
we want to go cover the guys he's gonna want
to throw too. It is so much a passing league.
And we saw that in the top twelve picks last night.
And and you and I both know this, okay, and
I hope this doesn't happen, but let's just be realistic. Okay,
if Sam Donald with the Panthers, who as we speak
today is their starting quarterback. If Drew Lock for the Seahawks,
(05:55):
who I assume as we speak today would be their
starting quarterback. If all of a sudden, after three, four
or five games of the regular season, both those quarterbacks
are playing very poorly. You know what you're going to
hear from their fan bases in the national media they
should have taken quarterbacks. You know how it works. So
I'm not saying they should or shouldn't have. They had
(06:15):
their board set. I don't question teams boards, and I'll
tell you why, Bob, because I know what I do. Okay.
I've watched tape probably fifteen hours a day, you know,
college players since mid January, so you know I evaluate players.
Teams do the same thing with far more people than me.
I'm a one person scouting service, So I don't say
(06:37):
teams do a good or a bad job. They do
a job. They do the job the way see fit.
Reasonable people can disagree about players. I have no problem
with that whatsoever. I've been wrong, like everybody has been wrong.
That's just the nature of the business. But obviously Carolina
and Seattle felt that there was not a quarterback worth
taking at six or nine, or they had a need
(07:00):
that's superseded a quarterback in this particular draft. And the
only way we're going to find out is when we
start playing football. Um Charles Cross will be the left
tackle for Seattle. Um Carolina at six took a quantu,
So um a quantu will He'll step right in and
be their left tackle. I am sure. So these two
(07:23):
teams addressed their left tackle position. And you know, ideally
there are two quarterbacks, Donald and locked Gino Smith. Whoever
Seattle decides to go with. I would assume lock Um
can function because in the minds of those teams, they'll
run the ball with McCaffrey and Rashad Penny and they'll
(07:43):
have uh, a quarterback that in their mind is just
an executor of an offense. Although we all know that
the league doesn't work like that. Your quarterback is going
to have to make throws sooner or later in this league, right. Well,
you know it's also funny. I got into it back
and forth with some Jets fans earlier yesterday, and I said,
you know, not me, right, And I said that there
(08:04):
was at least a chance that if a Quantu was
there at four, the Jets would think about taking him,
And Jet fans were like, well, if they do that,
that's a terrible sign for McKay Beckton. That means they're
giving up on McKay Beckton. That means that they think
they made a mistake last year. And I said, well,
two things. A. I mean, George Fant right now would
be their starting right tackle, and he's a free agent
(08:27):
after this year. I think they would like to resign him,
And certainly with what they did last night, it tells
you they want to resign him. But if they took
a Quantu, like the last time I checked in the NFL,
you need two of them, right, somebody plays right tackle,
somebody plays left tackle, and I do believe that they're both.
You know, with the way that teams now run offenses,
(08:47):
maybe not you know, fifty fifty, but fifty forty five
in terms of importance, like your right tackle better be
able to protect the quarterback nearly as well as your
left tackle. Again, I personally believe, not to interrupt you,
that there is no delineation anymore between the two positions.
The only don in theation is that the left tackle
protects the blind side. But in terms of traits needed
(09:09):
to play right tackle and left tackle, Bob, this is
not twenty five years ago where teams lined up in
base personnel on the tight end was always on the
right side of the formation, and the right tackle could
theoretically be less of an athlete. Just look at the
players that you have to protect against who come from
the left side of the defense. And also think about
what teams do now defensively with all their pressure schemes.
(09:31):
Your right tackle better be a really good pass protector.
He cannot just be a big road grader. And that
makes my point for me. And you're backing up the
point that I was making two Jets fans if they
took a quanu still having a guy like McKay Beckton
on their roster. Look what the Giants did at seven, Yeah,
I mean two years ago they took Andrew Thomas in
(09:53):
the top four. And what did they do last night
at seven? They took another one. They took Evin Neil,
who will now probably project to play right tackle. So
they're gonna have two top seven pit as, their two
bookend tackles to try and find out whether or not
their quarterback is the right guy, and they are going
to give him as much protection as possible so that
(10:13):
at the end of the day they need to know
whether or not Daniel Jones can do this and give
him the time to show whether or not he can
do this. And Neil did play right tackle in for
Alabama when Leatherwood was the left tackle, and as most
people probably know, the Giants at this moment did not
pick up Daniel Jones option. But let's say we go
into weeks seven or eight and the Giant offense is
(10:34):
humming and everything is good, then they'll they'll revisit that
with Daniel Jones. You know, they certainly have time to
do that. Um, but you're right. I mean all last
night's draft was still all about the passing game. It
just was not about the specific position of quarterback. All right.
We spent the first ten minutes or so here, twelve
minutes whatever, looking kind of wide angle lens at philosophically
(10:57):
how teams approached the first round. The quarterbacks were not
reached for, but yet everyone was drafting with the quarter
back in mind. When we come back, I want to
get to a couple of specific teams and what they did.
And I'm sure you probably know what team I'm going
to ask you about first, because you know my team
in green and white. They will end up starting next
year with three first round draft choices on the field,
(11:21):
all at potentially impact game changing position. Without question, they
were They were a big story last night, Bob, not
just because it's your team. They were a big story
and they can make plays to win you a game.
So I definitely want to get your take on that
and to dive into some other teams and how they
approached the first round, and then a little bit later
on before we wrap this episode up, because we've got
(11:42):
the rest of the draft still to look forward to.
If folks are listening to this today in anticipation of
what's happening tonight and going into tomorrow, I want to
talk about the best players that are still out there,
right because we did say, uh a couple of episodes
ago that we did we dig so deeply into the
first round. It's almost like the fans of the media
think the drafts over after the first draft. There's so
(12:06):
many good football players still out there that teams will
be grabbing tonight. There always are there, always are. They
just not the marquee names. YEP. So I want to
get some of those names from you as well. So
we still have a lot to do when we come
back here on TAPEDS Draft season. We are back on
TAPEDS Draft season. Bobo Schusen, longtime ESPN college football play
(12:27):
by play man, but also once in a while I
dabble in Sunday afternoon play by play with the New
York Jets. And I'm here with Greg Cosell as always
on TAPEDS draft season to dig inside the draft, behind
the war room, behind how the boards are put together,
and hopefully give you a deep dive into the NFL
draft and philosophically how teams approach it. And now we
(12:48):
actually have a draft to talk about the first round
of the books and Greg my teammate headlines. You know,
they set off a couple of flares last night that
they were real about trying to get game changing players.
And look, Joe Douglas traded Sam Donald traded Jamal Adams.
Those were wide angle lens down the road for the
(13:08):
future type moves. Well, the future has arrived, right and
like now now you have to hit on the picks.
Do you think they hit on the picks because a
couple of the guys that we're gonna be talking about now,
are guys, including Elijah Verrett Sucker last year, that are
the fruit of the tree of the trades that he made. Well, Bob,
the only way I can do that. I'm not one
of those people that think, soh, they should have done
(13:30):
this here, they could have gotten this guy there. I
just respond to what teams do, and all I can
do is tell you what my evaluation of the players are.
That's all I can do. And I really think that
the three players that they drafted, Sauce Gardner, Garrett Wilson,
and Jermaine Johnson, I had them evaluated as really really
high level prospects so to me before they even of
(13:53):
course step on the field an NFL field, I think
the Jets did extremely well based on my evaluation of
the players. Sauce Gardener will step right in and be
a starting cornerback for them, and they needed corners. I
don't know what they think about Hall at at corner.
He's a long, relatively athletic corner I don't think he
played poorly last year. You're probably a little closer to
(14:14):
that situation than I am, but I think you can
line him up as an outside corner opposite Sauce Gardener,
and then you have a lot of length on the outside,
which teams like. Um. You know, obviously they drafted Garrett Wilson.
Garrett Wilson to me was one of the top three
receivers in this draft class. I've made the comparison, which
I think is is valid to Stefon Diggs. I think
(14:36):
he can become that kind of player, a high level
receiver with inside outside flexibility and a vertical dimension. UM.
And then, of course Jermaine Johnson. We had spoken about
him a number of times in earlier versions of tape Heads,
and I would have said Johnson, even though I don't
do a board and make a list, I would have
said Johnson was one of my six or seven best
(14:57):
prospects in this draft. I can't speak to why he
was still there when the Jets traded up for him.
I don't know the answer to that, and I'll probably
never know the answer to that. But I felt based
on his tape, based on what I thought his tape
showed that he could become with coaching and further development,
I thought Jermaine Johnson was one of the six or
seven best prospects in this draft class. So to me,
(15:20):
based on my evaluations of the three players the Jets
took in the first round, I thought they did exceptionally well. Yeah,
and I'm wondering again to try and take the conversation
inside the war room, and we'll get to Johnson in
a moment, because I think he became the player they
traded up for to get towards the end of the
first round, because where they obviously had him on their board,
(15:43):
he had dropped far enough that they trusted their own evaluation.
And so you know, we are just now compelled to
go get this player right like he's in the twenties.
We think he's a top ten, top twelve player. This
is absolutely now worth one of those premium second round
picks that we have to move up, you know, the
dozen or so spots from the second round back into
(16:04):
the first round, and go get him. That aside, and
we'll talk about him in a moment. People were debating
whether or not Sauce Gardner, ikey Akwanu, whether or not
Garrett Wilson, or should they get an edge, And I think, again,
this is the conversation that happens inside that room, and
it's a conversation that happens all the way through the
draft process. I think the Jets are saying to themselves,
we could draft the franchise tackle in a quantu, or
(16:26):
we could take the cover corner and Sauce Gardener at four.
What do we have on our roster? We have McKay Beckton.
Yes he is injury prone, Yes we have questions about him,
but his ceiling is such that if he comes back
healthy and we keep coaching him, he can be a
franchise left tackle. We don't have a franchise corner right
(16:48):
like design DJ readon free agency. He's a really good player.
I don't think anybody is going to say he is,
you know, a shutdown number one, no doubt about it.
Franchise cornerback. There you go. So so now we're gonna
check a box for something on our roster we don't have,
right like, let's we have a guy we drafted two
(17:09):
years ago that we think can be, if we keep
him healthy, a franchise left tackle, and by taking Sauce Gardner,
to me, that is an endorsement of the future that
they still believe McKay Beckton has. And then they go
to ten. There were still edge players, including Jermaine Johnson
on the board, but they have Carl Lawson. Now, if
(17:30):
Carl Lawson comes back from his achilles, bang, you have
a pass rusher, you maybe you certainly want more. And
they went and traded up for Jamaine Johnson. But do
they have a no doubt about it, franchise number one
outside receiver. No, they do not. Elijah Moore really good,
versatile player, I think could be a star in the league.
(17:51):
Like him a lot. You know, Corey Davis is, you know,
he's a really good player. But do they have that
difference maker at the outside as the number one true
wide receiver. So I think that's the way they approached it.
They approached it from the standpoint of, we already have
a guy on the roster at left tackle and pass
rusher that could conceivably at both of those positions, be
(18:13):
that guy. We may not have that player at wide
receiver and corner. And I think that's the conversation, right
that happens in the war room and and heading up
towards the draft. What do we have and what can
we what can we turn what we have into as
opposed to what we don't have on the roster. And
we have to go get. You know, it reminds me
of the conversation we had a number of weeks ago
(18:35):
with Mike Tanninbound and the musts and the needs, because ultimately,
if you don't have corners in this league, you can
have a lot of other things on your team, but
if you cannot prevent explosive plays by the opposing offense,
it's very, very difficult to compete in this league. Um,
So basically, you know you can. The thing you can
do is you can scheme pressure. You know. Obviously they
(18:58):
did trade up for Johnson, who obviously I like. As
I've said, but as you and I both know coaches,
and Robert Salo is a very good defensive coach. You
can scheme pressure, but at some point you can't hide
bad corner play, and you ultimately need corners in this league,
and they really didn't have them. As I said, I think,
(19:18):
I think at this point they're probably comfortable with Hall. Um,
maybe maybe not. I don't know. As I said, you
might know more, but Sauce Gardner is clearly a number
one type corner and um, just listening last night, I've
obviously never seen him in person, but I was watching
the NFL network, and they were talking about when they
first saw him in person and just what he looks like.
(19:39):
That his arms are incredibly long, that he's got tremendous
length to him, just when you see him in person,
you know, in a suit. Um So, I think that
sauce Gardener to me. Um, I know that there's probably
a big debate in rooms about Stingley versus Gardner. I
liked Gardener just to touch more so. I thought the
Jets did extremely well. All right, let me get some
(20:00):
of the of the other teams that I thought made
really interesting move And when you get into that range
of eleven, like can eleven, twelve, thirteen, where teams like
the Saints, the Lions made a big move up to
go and get a receiver of an A C l
and Jamison Williams right, Jordan Davis lasted all the way
to thirteen. What teams surprised you with maybe what they did,
(20:23):
maybe the aggression that they showed. The minute that we
found out that the Lions were making that big move
up to twelve, everyone assumed it was for a quarterback,
and all of a sudden they go get a wide receiver.
So what did that tell you? Well, I think it
tells you um the value of explosive plays, which is
all I heard when I was at the scouting combine.
Bob is explosive plays, explosive plays. That's all coaches talked
(20:44):
about offensively. And Jamison Williams, when healthy and he will be,
is just a game changing player. And he's not just
a vertical dimension. That's the thing. Yes, he's the best
vertical dimension in this draft, but he is more than that.
There's some nuance, some subtlety to the way in which
he runs routes. All Alabama receivers because they're obviously very
(21:06):
well coached there, they all have that. So they basically said, Hey,
we need explosive plays in our offense. You can't compete
in the NFL without it. These days, you're not gonna
grind out twelve thirteen play drives. The league doesn't work
like that anymore, and we don't have that guy. And
this guy is as special as it gets in that regard.
(21:28):
So was it surprising, Yes, But I think when you
think about the NFL, not about the draft, bopsy. That's
the other factor which we've tried to talk about, is
that it's different talking about platitudes leading up to the draft,
where everybody has an opinion, and then the games themselves
when they're playing. And if you can't stretch the field
(21:48):
at all, your offense really has a problem. Plus that
you know what your quarterback is. Jared Goff is not
a bad player. For some reason, people don't like him.
No one's suggesting he's a top five quarterback. But if
you give him an old line, and they've got believe
three number one picks on their own line, if I'm
not mistaken, Um, I know they have two for sure. Um.
(22:09):
And uh, they obviously have drafted running backs because they
have Swift who they drafted. Um. And now you get
receivers and and Hockinson. I think they just reopt or
signed his tender or whatever that however that works. They
actually now are a team that has a lot of weapons.
And God is just an executor. So if you can
protect him and you can allow him to be an
(22:30):
executor of an offense, he can actually function fine. He
did that. He got to his Super Bowl doing that, Bob.
People seem to forget that. And for the Jets real
quickly back to the move that they made outside of
the Lions, probably the most aggressive move back into the
first round to get your main Johnson. Obviously they had
him where you had him rated, right like way up
(22:52):
towards the top of the first round. That's why they
made the aggressive move to go get him. My only
caution to Jet fans in terms of pumping the brakes
on a player that the mock drafts all at as
a top ten, top twelve player, and you got a
twenty six and now it seems like the steal of
the century is twenty five teams, including your team, twice
passed on him. So obviously the league didn't think that
(23:14):
he was a top ten player. Why do you think
the league maybe didn't think that he was a top
ten player where you and the Jets both obviously did.
I would love to have a brilliant answer to that,
and I don't only because I did. I mean I
saw him that way based on tape study, So I
don't know why. Um, could it just be the small
sample size that he just kind of had that one
(23:35):
signature year is that it's some people might say, hey,
you know he he was kind of a uh not
a backup player at Georgia the year before, because actually
his Georgia tape from twenty was very good. Um, that's
an impossible question. Like I said, I wish I had
a great answer, I don't because I can only speak
to my evaluation of the player. Um, and I'm trying
(23:57):
to think through the draft. Other than Jordan Davis, okay,
a defensive lineman, but not certainly not an age player.
After those early guys went that are considered edged players,
I don't believe another aged player went until Johnson corrected.
Am I missing someone? No? Basically, yeah, we it. It
(24:17):
was a mixture of It was a lot of wide
receivers obviously, like between Pick eight and pick like six
teams six wide receivers went, and then a couple of
corners and Trent McDuffie and Kayer elam Uh. Basically, if
you were either a corner, an offensive lineman, or someone
that played defense for Georgia, that was basically like the
whole second half. So I guess my My point is
(24:40):
is it's possible teams did have him rated more highly
but felt that they had other needs that were more pressing,
and they're still really good players. In other words, let's
just take the bills for instance. And I don't know,
and I'm not speaking with any inside knowledge. Let's say
the Bills had Jermain Johnson rated as their tenth best
player in the draft. But the Bills don't have a
corner opposite Tradavious White, right, So you know they might
(25:03):
love Jermaine Johnson, but they got a line up at
corner or they're gonna have a problem. So then they
make the trade up to twenty two because they saw
the Chiefs take McDuffie at twenty one. Then they said,
oh boy, we're not going to get a corner in
this draft that we really feel good about, so we
have to make this move. So we don't that that's
why we don't know exactly how teams had Johnson evaluated.
(25:26):
And one last quick question before we take a break
and then come back and spin it forward and talk
about who's still out there and the teams that could
still really improve themselves on Day two and Day three.
Anything else that surprised you from this first thread. I
thought this first round, like, I don't remember as I'm
watching it, outside of the big move that the Lions made,
the move the Jets made to get your main Johnson,
(25:48):
I don't know that there was another pick that jumped
out at me to say, wow, like that guy seems
out of place. That's a real reach in the first
round because the quarterbacks didn't go so one really reach.
I'll give you three things real quick. Number one I
thought were chrislave Win is per because if Michael Thomas
is healthy, he's the alpha dog, he's the boundary xt.
He can do all the dirty work. We we know
(26:10):
what we've seen from him over the years, obviously missed
last year, and I think that's a perfect place for
a love who, to me, is your absolutely perfect compliment.
I thought what the Eagles did with Jordan Davis is
fascinating because ultimately Davis is the one player as we
speak today that does not fit the mold of being
a past game player. Now, they may see him that
(26:31):
way down the road, and I'm sure they do, which
is why they made the pick. I would think they
want him to lose some weight. I would think they'd
want to work with him. Um. He's obviously a phenomenal
athlete in terms of the way he can move. Um,
but you don't draft a player what they did to
play fifteen or twenty snaps the game in your run
defense so they clearly see him as more than that.
(26:54):
We they could well be right. And the one final point,
I love what the Ravens did because they signed Marcus
Hamilton's in the offseason at safety and then they drafted
Kyle Hamilton's and you know what, safety is an extremely
important position now in the NFL, contrary to what some
others might believe. And now they're gonna line up with
Kyle Hamilton's and Marcus Williams as safety, and boy does
(27:17):
that give you a lot of versatility your safety position. Yeah,
very interesting. They may have to have that hard to
heart with Lamar Jackson because if you followed his Twitter
feed last night during the draft, he apparently did not
know they were going to trade Hollywood Brown and was
not a big fan of the Kyle Hamilton's pick based
on you know, all the little like angry faces he's
tweeting while his own team is out there making draft picks.
(27:38):
But that's the world we live in now. Today's player,
they that's it. They've got a highway to let their
own feelings out there instantaneously before you could get them
to stop from hitting send. So all right, when we
come back, final segment of this episode, we're gonna spend
it forward. I would like to get from great co
Sell's some gems that are still out there. Obviously there
are a ton because we've only had thirty two players
(28:01):
taken so far, so we will still talk about what
is to come in the NFL Draft when we come
back on Tapeds Draft season. We are back on Tapeds
Draft season, Bobo Shoes and Greg co Sell breaking down
the first round. But also as we have done, you know,
kind of a wide angle lens look at the first
round now spinning it forward to the second round and Gregg,
(28:24):
there are, including the quarterbacks, a lot of players still
on the board that if you checked out all the
mock drafts leading up to the draft, folks thought might
go in the first round and you still have like
the Texans picking fifth in the second round, the Seahawks
pick back to back, eighth and ninth, the Falcons pick eleven.
Those were teams that were on our radar that had
(28:47):
picks in the first round where you thought they might
spend one on a quarterback and didn't. Kenny Pickett was
the only player that went to the Steelers in the
first round at the premier position in the sport. So
what are you expecting before we move on to the
other positions, specifically with Malik Willis, you know, Matt Corral
the rest of this quarterback class. Do you anticipate and
(29:08):
would you be surprised if we didn't see those guys
start to come off the board to some of those
quarterback needy teams, now that maybe even they're surprised these
guys are still there in round two. Well, now you
get into I think how teams feel, truly feel about themselves. Look,
every team is going to tell you we're competing for
the super Bowl. We know that, Bob, that's that's you know,
you have to say that. But but you know, these
(29:31):
coaches and these personnel people, they've been doing this a
long time. They really know. So maybe teams like I
would not surprise me to see Atlanta take a quarterback.
I don't know which one that Arthur Smith would like
if he was there, Um, but I think you might
see them take a quarterback. Um. I I don't know
about Seattle. I would bet that Pete Carroll thinks they
(29:51):
can compete, so I'm not sure that he would do that.
I think he might want to take a player that
he believes can help them today. But as I look
at the list of some players that again I'm speaking
now of player is that I evaluated well. I really
like Arnold Ebicketty from Penn State. He's a pass rushing
d N slash outside linebacker. UM, he's still available, and
(30:15):
I think because he's a pass rusher, it would not
surprise me to see him go early. UM. Kyler Gordon,
the corner opposite Trent McDuffie at the University of Washington,
another player that I think has a lot of value
in today's NFL because he played outside and he played
in the slot at the University of Washington, and he
(30:35):
can play press man, he can play zone. He's a
very athletic kid. I think he's a player you could
see come off the board early. The question is the
run on wide receivers, will that continue? And who's next? Um?
Last night you heard about Sky More from Western Michigan,
Christian Watson from North Dakota State. I know for a
(30:56):
fact that the reason George Pickens, who to me, based
on film, is arguably the best receiver in this draft.
Obviously he was not drafted that way last night. UM,
but I know for a fact some teams had him
number one on the board based on his play on
the field. I have heard that there are concerns about
him in other areas, which I'm sure is the reason
he has dropped, But he's certainly available. Um, if you're
(31:19):
still looking for defensive lineman, I think Logan Hall from
the University of Houston, who I think is a three
technique but as the versatility to line up anywhere along
your defensive front in sub fronts. I really liked his
tape a lot. In fact, I liked his tape more
than Davantell Wyatt, who went to the Packers late in
the first round. So those are just some names that
(31:41):
immediately come to my mind. If you have some others,
I'll be you know, we can throw those out as
well well. Based on last night's first round, you would
have thought that everyone that could possibly be drafted off
the Georgia defense had been drafted. But the Kobe Dean
is still out there. Yes, right. He He plays that
kind of you know, non kind of quote unquote premier position.
He's not an edge rusher, he's not a corner. He's
(32:02):
a linebacker. But man, he is a sideline to sidebline
difference maker. He's gonna have a long NFL career. Someone's
gonna get him in the second round. I would think high.
So he is certainly a name that I would keep
my eye on. UM and David A. Jabo. I think
it's a really interesting player because he is in that
and John Metchi is still on the board wide receiver right,
they are kind of that second tier Jamison Williams type
(32:25):
where really bad injury but super super talented player. I
would think both of those guys have a chance to
go in the second round if the run on wide
receivers continues, or if someone looks at a job Bo
and says, you know what, let's rehab him for a year.
He's gonna be an edge rusher for us for a
long time to come. Yeah, and John Metchi is a
player I really liked. I I watched his tape last
(32:47):
summer from and then of course watched him this year
from one UM. He would not be viewed as explosive,
which is why I think he would drop anyway. I
don't know if he would ever have been a first
round pick even without the knee injury, but he's another
route technician I've made the comparison to Robert Woods, who
I believe was a second round pick when he came
(33:08):
out of usc UM. And I think Mitchi is going
to be a very good player. He's just not that
explosive receiver, although he can get vertical, but he's not
just fast by nature. Um. So John Mitchi is is
another player that's there. Um Then you start getting into uh.
I'll give you an example. I think Tray McBride, the
(33:30):
tight end from Colorado State, is going to go in
round two. I could well be wrong, but I think
when people really study his tape. While he's not quite
a Travis Kelsey or Darren Waller, I think in this
era of tight ends lining up all over your formation,
not just being attached players, but being detached from the formation,
Trey McBride did all that at Colorado State, even lining
(33:53):
up as the single receiver to the boundary, the boundary
acts and making difficult catches, running routes against safeties and corners.
It would not surprise me to see a team grab
Trey McBride because he can do that for you, all right.
And a couple of other guys that I think are
really interesting, because what are we doing right now, we're
still talking about the pass game. We're talking about edge rushers,
(34:14):
we're talking about quarterbacks, we're talking about receivers. We're talking
about tight ends that can stretch the field and go
catch the ball. We're talking about everyone that impacts the
past game. But when will we finally see the glamour
position when we were growing up running back? When I
think back to the eighties, the first guys that come
to mind for some of the stars that I grew
(34:36):
up watching Earl Campbell, Tony Dorset, Walter Payton. Right, I
mean like we we grew up in the era where
the running back was arguably the most important player outside
of the quarterback on your team. And now we could
well get into the second round, maybe middle late of
the second round, before a Briest Hall or Kenneth Walker
gets their name called, and maybe those guys primarily will
(34:58):
have their name called because teams feel like, hey, those
guys are really versatile, they can go catch the ball
in our passing game. That's probably just a continued evolution
of that position. When am I gonna hear a running
back or two come off the board, you know, and
and again just hearing you say that um, I'll be
very curious to know which running backs come off early.
(35:19):
Because you mentioned Kenneth Walker. I think Kenneth Walker right now.
And obviously I was not at his pro day, so
I don't know how he caught the ball. He was
not asked to do that during the games that I
watched for Michigan State, so I don't know how he
catches the ball. Maybe catches it well, but if you
don't see him that way, then you're basically drafting him
to be your feature back, and it I'll be very
(35:40):
curious to see what teams draft runner and what kind
of player they draft at running back because you you
have a James Cook from Georgia, you have her a
Shot White from Arizona State. They are really good receivers
as well, and it's very possible a team could say,
you know what, we're not gonna run our offense through
(36:01):
our running back. These guys are good in for runners
that if we gave them the ball twelve thirteen times
a game, we're fine. But they're really really good receivers
and they can really help us create matchups, create explosive
plays not only for them but for our wide receivers.
So I'm curious how the running backs shake out once
(36:21):
they start to come off the board. One final question,
any team that jumps out at you in terms of
the second round that's got the real estate? I mean,
looking at the pick order of the second round, it's
different than the first round. The Bucks, I know, have
multiple picks. They pick first to lead off the second
round than they have a late second round pick based
(36:42):
on trades. The Seahawks have the eighth and ninth pick
back to back in the second round, but it seems
like it's a much more even dispersedment. Bears have a
couple of picks. The Packers pick like twenty onest and
twenty seven. It looks like so there are some teams
that have multiple second round picks, but it's not that
top heavy. You know, the Jets are picking twice, the
Giants are picking twice, and the top seven. So is
(37:04):
there a team that you have your eye on in
the second round that you think of really helped themselves. Well,
the one team and I think I mentioned in a
moment ago with Seattle because I think what they do
given that they have, did you say the eighth and
the ninth pick in the second round? I believe you'd
be the eighth and the ninth picks of the second
round back to back. Yeah, I think that will tell
you a lot about how they see themselves. Don't forget
they're in a really tough division. So I think that
(37:26):
that will tell you how Pete Carroll and John Schneider
see the version of the Seahawks, because my guess is
Pete Carroll, given his age, is not really interested in
rebuilding or retooling. Or retooling is a different word, but
he's not interested in rebuilding and taking a year to
see what he has. That would be my sense, Bob.
(37:47):
I think that they're going to draft players that they
believe can step in and be contributors and important pieces
this year, which is why I'd be surprised, but I
could be wrong. Obviously, I'd be surprised if they took
a quarterback. I think with the eighth and ninth picks
in the second round, they are going to draft players
that they believe can line up tomorrow and help them.
(38:08):
That's Greg co cell. I'm Babo Shusan. Last night was
the headline making night, and it's a fun night. It's
the first round. But if you're like us, the real
football nerds. Right if you've listened to this podcast and
you've heard Greg take you all the way back from basically,
you know, the beginning of February or mid February, whatever
we was. We started recording these episodes all the way
now up through the actual draft itself, and he has
(38:31):
uncovered all of these guys that you're gonna eventually hear
their names called. Now it gets good. Right now the
football nerd now gets to dig in and watch Day
two and Day three and hear all of those names
and have a good feel of really, did your team
go out with those picks that make the difference, compile
the meat of your roster and help themselves. And when
(38:52):
we come back on Monday, we will have another episode
of Taped's draft season. We will dig deeper into what
happened the rest of the draft, So hopefully you will
join us then please rate to you subscribe, enjoy the
rest of the draft, and we will talk to you
after the weekend is over and get great. Co sells
entire take on how everyone did and the teams that
(39:13):
really impressed him. When we come back early next week
and drop our next episode of tape heeds Draft season
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