November 11, 2025 • 40 mins
- Dan Campbell shouts out the defense against Washington - Difference in Lions' offensive play-calling from week to week - Jeff Genyk joins Shep to discuss the intricacies of calling plays Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 3 (00:58):
And welcome back for second hour. Glad you're with us,
EXUS and Bros. Here on the Michigan Sports Network. I'm
Matt Sheppard. I'm not going to suggest that Jalen Duran
and the question of the Piston signing him is going
to meet that of Trek Scuuble on the Tigers. That's asinine. Okay,
Trek's Scouoble at what he does is better than what
(01:20):
Jalen Durham does, what his craft is. But Jalen Durn's
a lot younger and has a chance to make a
massive impact. You know, as long as Kate Cunningham's on
this team and healthy, he's I don't think he'll ever
be the best player on this team, like Kerk Schooble's
the best player probably on the Tigers. However, I do
(01:44):
think it's worthy at some point if this continues, I
do think it's worthy of having a discussion on how
important he is for the future of this franchise moving forward,
because remember, he's a guy who is these one of
twelve players to forego signing that rookie extension prior to
the season. Would you say it's paying off for him?
(02:04):
I would say yes, absolutely. He's on pace to average
a double double for a third consecutive season. In fact,
going into the game last night, I believe he had
one hundred and ten career double doubles. In fact, I
think he's got now one hundred and eleven before the
(02:26):
age of twenty two, that's tied with Shaquille O'Neal for
fourth most all time. That's pretty flipping good, right, and
I know that. Look, if you don't like him, here's
what you're going to say. He's a garbage cleaner, cleans
up the glass, puts it back in. I am not
comparing him to Shaquille O'Neal. Please don't take that leap.
(02:48):
I am not saying that that's what Shaquille O'Neal was. Now, bigger, stronger,
tougher to guard, without question. But Shaquille O'Neill, it's not
like he had this game that expanded to fifteen feet
struggled mightily from the free throw line. Right, You're not
(03:09):
guarding him at the elbow. The only way you do
that is because you don't want him turning a corner
and coming downhill and run over you. Because that's three
hundred pounds of a massive human being. So I don't
blame you. I wouldn't want to take that charge. Burke
going the other way. Everybody's standing cheers. Meanwhile, you know
your chest is caved in. No thank you. But Jalen
(03:32):
Duran plays a certain role and he's getting better at
that role. He's getting better defensively. You can notice it, right,
I think his offensive game is expanding slowly, but surely.
I like that a lot. It's been really impressive. He's
getting better at the free throw line. Okay, attempts are
(03:52):
increasing a little bit. Early on this season. I got
to look at what his numbers are now, But early
this year, what was he shooting from the free throw line?
Do you remember Trent about eighty four percent? Last year
he shot about sixty four percent.
Speaker 5 (04:07):
Yeah, I think his career average is like sixty five.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Okay, he's he's he's a lot better at that now.
Speaker 5 (04:14):
Yeah, he got off to a great start, and I
think you're right it's around.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Eighty Yeah, eighty point eight percent. Missed that second one
last night, damn it. That's the way it goes. Anyway.
My point is, at some point we're going to look
at that situation and probably say to ourselves, Okay, he's
(04:37):
a guy that this team could absolutely build around. I
can tell you this. Around the league, when you look
at guys who were on contract years, he's one of
those names that other teams are looking at saying, you
know what, we might want to make a bit on
a guy like this. Could be a Quentin Grimes, could
(04:57):
be an Austin Reeves, could be a lot different guys.
But Jalen duran Is in that conversation, could be calling
Sexton cam Thomas. There's different guys. Okay, he's one of
those guys. I like that aspect of it. I love
the fact that he is a guy who's, you know,
(05:17):
coming into his own that it's not going to be
a one man show. He's playing a lot of minutes
twenty nine. I'd like to see it. I'd actually I'd
like to see him get those minutes up a little
bit quite honestly. We'll see what happens with it. But
it's a really nice win for Detroit in a comeback effort,
and the contagious feel that this team has has been
(05:43):
pretty fun to watch. That's what can happen early on now.
Is there going to be a time where you stub
your toe? Absolutely so. We don't want to get too
caught up in it. Got caught up in it last
year with the Lions, got caught up in it this
year with the Tigers.
Speaker 5 (05:58):
I was just going to say the Tigers is a
great example of that.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Yeah, I got burned a little bit. Right. Of course,
it doesn't mean you and I can't live in a moment.
I don't want people to feel that way. You can.
You just can't take it too far. We, including when
I say we, I'm including myself here, took the Tigers
perhaps a little too far. We were saying, look, this
(06:25):
is a team that's the best team in baseball. Yep, okay,
And in fairness to you and I, they were at
the time. We said that they had the best record
in baseball, they had the best run differential in baseball,
they were top five, and all the key offensive categories
in baseball. I warned about the defense a little bit.
The base running was among the best in all of baseball,
(06:48):
first to third, okay, second to home among the best.
Something happened. We still can't quite explain it. That many
bats going quiet at the same time. A lot of
changeover in the coaching staff. It's been pretty consistent where
the coaching staff has kind of rolled over. You're getting
(07:10):
different first base coaches, different third base coaches, different hitting coaches.
You got the same pitching coach, the same bench coach,
the same manager. Those are most important, I would say,
although you know hitting coaches are pretty damn important. But
you're seeing a lot of turnover, which makes me just
wonder just a little bit. Why. Okay, goodbye Gary Jones,
(07:30):
goodbye way back in the day, Chip Hale had a
better opportunity in college a number of different things, Okay,
Anthony Ioposi, there's changes where you're like, why is why?
Why are the minor league managers being jettisoned off too?
Speaker 5 (07:44):
Didn't ship Hale go back to Arizona State or something?
Speaker 3 (07:47):
I think it was Arizona, Yeah, okay, And then that
was early That was like the first year in those
twenty nineteen it was early hot. Yeah, nobody was going
to stand in his way. I just there is a
bit of a turnover there at first and third and
Ramon Santiago and different people moving on. It's kind of odd, Okay.
I don't know how much that matters to people. I
(08:09):
don't even know if they're paying quite honestly, paying close
attention to it, But it does seem just like there's
a hard way of getting continuity. Like if a third
base coach is going to be a manager, Ron Washington
leaves the Angels to be the manager of another team,
that's one thing, But just moving on from guys for
the sake of moving on seems just a little odd
(08:29):
to me. And I don't think many people are paying
attention because they're trying to figure out which free agency
trade is going to get next? Is Alex Bregman your
top priority? Which brings up an interesting question. I mean,
what is the priority? What do you think the priority
of the Detroit Tigers should be? Scientieric Scooble, go hard
(08:53):
after a free agent like Alex Bregman. You know, I'm
seeing all these different names of players. I've brought up
Dylan Sees for example, thinking he would be a really
good fit, and looks like they've got him going to Houston.
John Paul Morosi, I think said that yesterday.
Speaker 5 (09:09):
Well Ship, that could be a good poll question to
put in the bank. What should the priority of the
Detroit Tigers beat this offseason?
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Right? And we would say Signieric Scoubel, which would probably
be one hundred percent, go after a third baseman like
Alex Bragman. If you wanted to be specific, what else
would it be? Add a number two starter?
Speaker 5 (09:33):
Yeah, I was going to say, add another picture.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Okay, No one's going to put number two starter over
Derek Scuble. No, and then I think Evan Petzel will
three per put something about Kevin McGonagall. How quickly will
he Oh that's a good one. May bring up the
young guys. Okay, so young guys are young guy? I mean,
that's that's the big question. Well, yeah, I got yeah,
I guess I would narrow it down to two. Do
(09:56):
you would you rather extend Rek Scubel or sign Alex?
My guess is most people would say Trek school because
he's homegrown, he's our guy, and he's twenty nine years
old and you want him forever.
Speaker 5 (10:08):
But it would be interesting to see how many people
opt for the everyday player.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Yes, yeah, it would be I think. What's what's even
just as interesting is that I'm seeing even members of
the media. Excuse me, even members of the media say this,
just give him four hundred twenty five million dollars right now.
And I just I don't understand if they truly do
the research about that and get it. Maybe I'm off base.
Speaker 6 (10:36):
There.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Our phone number on the Meyer hotline eight six six
eight three eight forty eight forty three. You can text
to a sports radio twenty one thousand. Jeff Jannick joins
his bottom of the hour. What does an offensive coordinator
do while the head coach is calling the plays? And
what does a week look like as he preps. It's
an interesting conversation I think you'll enjoyed. At seven thirty five,
We're brought to you on this telling More Tuesday, this
hour by a friends at Meyer.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Brought to you by Honniken zero zero. Get the facts.
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Buck, his short shorts are a bit too short, and
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Speaker 7 (11:28):
Defensively, Lopez showed up big time. Man. He was disruptive.
You know, he's just been a quietly productive guy for
us the whole season and just really stepped up in
a big weight branch. Was all over the field, played aggressive, smart,
got him going active player Jack Campbell Man. He just
continues to get better and better. I mean, he's he's
(11:50):
our bellcow over there man and Saul's issues play snapped
a whistle. I thought TA played much better overall. That
was good to see.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Dan Campbell at the podium yesterday. Courtesy of Detroit Lions
dot com. So we appreciate them making that available to you.
In case you can't find it. Welcome back, Exes and Bros.
Monday through Friday, six until nine, eight six six eight
three eight forty eight forty three is the phone number.
The text line is Sports Radio to twenty one thousand.
Jeff Jenik will join us about twenty minutes from now
(12:23):
or so to talk about, you know, the perspective of
an offensive coordinator while the head coach is calling the place,
what is it they're doing to get ready. It's going
to be an interesting conversation. Jeff has coached at Wisconsin,
he's coached at Northwestern, He's coached at Cal, He's been
the head coach at Eastern Michigan. He's been around football
for decades and can really relate and understand what's going
(12:44):
on here. I think it'll be a very very good conversation.
I think you'll enjoy it very much. Dan Campbell yesterday
crediting a lot of different guys as part of prepping
for the Washington Commanders, including John Morton. I think there's
an overreaction. We're going to overreact to everything everybody does,
even ex players. It surprises me how they can be
(13:07):
just as emotional as fans in general, saying that you
know his days are over. John Morton's gonna get fired.
John Morton is not going to call plays again. I
think there's a very good chance that he will call
plays again.
Speaker 5 (13:21):
Well, I think people, I think Lions fans draw back
to the Anthony Lynn situation, when Dan Campbell took back.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Ben Johnson situation, when Dan Campbell admitted, look, I helped
Ben Johnson call plays a little bit, learn to call
plays a little bit for eight to nine games.
Speaker 5 (13:39):
Yeah, I don't think it's the same. I just think
maybe that's where fans' minds go, if they think John
Morton's out the door.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Yeah, it could be. But remember when Dan Campbell took
over play call and then he fired Anthony Lynn right away.
He didn't fire John Morton. He's not going to. I
don't think now after the season that may happen. I
don't know. I mean, I saw people on on social
media yesterday saying Detroit should bring in Brian Dabele. I'm like,
are you serious, right, nuts, I mean that dude, he
(14:09):
looks toxic to me. I mean that's we love all
the behind the scenes stuff. We love Hard Knocks, don't
we yea. But it also can be a very negative thing.
Like he can be a great it can be a
positive thing. It was a positive thing for Kelvin Shepard.
Remember when they had him in the linebackers room and
he's everyone's talking. He's talking about Malcolm Rodriguez. This is
(14:31):
a rookie. This is no events to you, Rodrigo, but
this is a rookie. I gotta start him. If you
guys aren't gonna play blah blah. He goes on and on.
That helped Kelvin. That helped Kelvin Shepard. It helped Dan Campbell, right,
I mean people seem to instead of just the kneecaps comment,
people liked and were reiterating what he said during Hard Knocks.
(14:54):
But it hurts Brian Dabele.
Speaker 5 (14:56):
All I think about is you guys, man.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
So Brian Dable gets canned and he'll find a job somewhere.
I mean, he was with Josh Allen in Buffalo. There's
nothing wrong with that. But we have a tendency to
overreact to things, and there's a belief I think among
fans and media that you know, John Morton, this is irreparable.
(15:21):
How are you going to possibly face the cameras and
the microphones, How in the world are you going to
answer all these questions. Dan Campbell was really good with it,
really good. He's like, look, I wanted to change some
things up, so I made a decision as a head coach,
as a CEO of a football team to change some things.
(15:41):
Doesn't mean that he can't go back, and it wouldn't
surprise me if he did. As long as you know,
you get a situation where you're like, okay, John Morton
understands the rhythm. What did a lot of players say
they were missing against Minnesota? They were missing a flow? Yep,
they were missing a rhythm. There's I had mentioned, not
(16:03):
that I'm an offensive coordinator by any stretch. Okay, because
I say this all the time about football. It's the
one sport we think we know, but we don't. There's
so many other things going on the conversation that is
taking place between an offensive coordinator, a head coach, and
a quarterback. There's a great rip of Matthew Stafford getting
(16:24):
something from Sean McVay. Did you see it this past weekend?
By chance, he was on Instagram. Sean mcvay's telling him
this play. He's talking to him. Stafford's like, I got it.
He keeps talking to him, and Stafford's looking at his huddle.
He goes, you guys have no idea what I'm going
through right now. He says, this is crazy. He's looking
back at the sideline. He's like, I got it, I
got it. Stop, please stop, please stop. I say it
(16:49):
all the time. Offensive coordinators are the most insecure people.
They want control of everything, right, So.
Speaker 5 (16:54):
He's ever like, it's unbelievable what I'm getting right now?
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Yeah, that's what he just said. Yeah to the huddle,
He's like, this is unbelievable. Okay, you basically you started
laughing at it. You know, it's ridiculous. Okay, if I
don't know if you've got that, I should have sent
it to you. But try to get that and play it.
It's funny, yeah, way, but it would be worse if
you were losing, they were winning, so it's kind of comical.
(17:18):
There are so many things that go on in football,
Like people think an offensive coordinator is just up there
going hmm and second down to three, should I call No?
You are looking three to four plays ahead. They barely
even recognize they barely even see the play. They call
the play, they see what happens, it's great, and then
(17:40):
they're immediately they don't have time to high five, do
a you know, grab a drink of water and slam
it down and all this other stuff. They got to
move on to the next play. There's so many things
that go to it's so complex. It really is one
of my I hate the phrase it's not rocket science.
Yeah it is. In football, it is. There's so much
(18:04):
crep that you're trying to digest and then spit out
in such a short period of time. Ideally, what's the
number a quarterback would love to have on the play
clock when you're walking to the line of scrimmage. Ideally,
if you're talking about eleven seconds, twelve seconds, you feel
(18:26):
pretty good, right, you break the hoddle, you're at the
line of scrimmage, you got about eleven seconds to diagnose
and then get into the play that you want you
think is gonna work best. You can't do that when
you're up there and there's five seconds last. You got
a burn of time out. You're gonna take a penalty,
or you're gonna have the wrong damn play, and no
(18:48):
one's gonna be on the same page. It's a lot
more than we think. It is. Not you and I
playing a video game and saying, Okay, I've got all
the time in the world. Do I want to send
two guys on a fly pattern, a one on a
dig route, or one guy on a post and two
guys on out patterns. It's not how it works. This
will give you. The conversation with Jeff Jenek will give
(19:09):
you a very interesting perspective, perhaps a newer perspective on
what offensive coordinators, what football coaches in general go through.
So I'm looking forward to that conversation. I think you
will be too. Dan Campbell was really impressed with the defense.
I love that about it. I love that he brings
(19:30):
up guys like Roy Lopez since he gets glossed over.
We rarely talk about defensive tackles unless it's Aaron Donald.
We're not talking about defensive tackles very often. But what
I found interesting is what he said about Jack Campbell
and how he solves things on the field. Again, another
aspect of football. We think we know, hey forty six.
(19:52):
He's just looking for the ball and then going and
tackle on the guy. He's putting guys in certain positions, Anzeloni.
I need Joe over here, Roy Lopez, I'm gonna tap
you on the right hip, I need you to move
to your left. I'm gonna set guys up in certain situations.
Then I'm going to recognize the tendencies that that team
usually has, and then I've got to make the play.
(20:16):
All of that is pre snap, and some of it
is faking things so the offense gets into a different play, okay,
or you give one look and you do something completely different.
I'm going to show blitz, but I'm not blitzing here.
That's just simplistic. But you understand the point. So I
think that's the fun part about it. And what we
(20:38):
don't give Jack Campbell nearly enough credit. For sure, we
see him stand up or running back, go mug to
mug at the gold line, saying you're not getting in
on my watch, throwing back and everybody goes crazy because
that is a badass linebacker. Jonathan Vilma was all about
it right during the broadcast on Fox. But it's a
hell of a lot more than that. In order for
(20:59):
him to make that play, he had to do a
lot of different things prior to the snap. In general,
it's one of the many things I absolutely love love
about football. You've never seen it all, you've never known
it all. Something is different on a regular basis. You
may run sixty eight plays in football, and there's going
(21:23):
to be a time where whether it be Matthew Stafford
or Cam Wore, a guy who's into seventeen seasons or
first season, that's something new. That's something I didn't see before.
Speaker 5 (21:34):
Jeff, I got that Matthew Stafford sound you want that
to take us in a break?
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Yeah, listen to this. This is fantastic. Thank you. Then
we'll go to break and we'll be back after that.
On a Tullymore Tuesday, brought to you by Meyer with
Jeff Jennik on the other side giving us his perspective
on what an OC does while the head coach is
calling plays. This is Matthew Stafford on Sunday for the Rams.
Go Yeah, here it is.
Speaker 8 (21:55):
I got it, I got it, I got it. Please stop, yes,
please stop. Oh my god, he's still gone. He's still gone. Hey,
he's still going. Hey, snatch this if you get all right,
I mean this, He's still going. You're one and a
half yards from an edge split in the middle. I mean,
this is unbelievable what I'm getting right now.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Okay, back with you, Back with you on EXUS and Bros.
Throughout the state of Michigan. We're connecting with Jeff Jennik.
Really excited to talk to him about the the responsibilities
of coaches and how detailed things can be and how
just how challenging football in general, I mean on the
offensive side, because Jeff was a brilliant offensive mind. And
(22:50):
the coach now joins us here on EXUS and Brows.
Good friend of the program, outstanding coach has been at
Wisconsin cal Northwestern Eastern Michigan. It's been around a long
long time. It's worked with some great men, and he
joins us here on excess and growth. Jeff, we appreciate
it as always. Thanks coach. So you and I have
talked in the past, and I know you were a
(23:12):
play caller yourself when it's taken away like John Morton
had it taken away and Dan Campbell takes over. What
does John Morton do during the week and what was
his responsibility do you think on game day coach.
Speaker 6 (23:25):
Well, good morning, chef and the happy veterans data all.
Well to wake up with the Pistons and the Lions
in first place.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
Yeah, that's fantastic way to go.
Speaker 6 (23:37):
So, first of all, you know, as far as the
affe and game planning is concerned, you know, it's a
significant collaboration of five, seven, eight ten people within the
building mill in Allen Park. And what John is going
to do is he is still going to be responsible
for coordinating all of the selection, personnel, selection, et cetera. Now, okay,
(24:05):
you know a decision was made early in the week,
probably Monday of last week where Dance that he's going
to be more involved, and so the head coach is
going to spend more of his time in the offensive
staff rooms, in the things you planning what sort of
person we're going to use. Personnel you saw where there
(24:29):
was twenty personnel, two running backs, three wide receivers to
use Gibs and Montgomery together. And so what goes on
is the aspect of on Monday, you're going to sit
down and your staff is going to break up. So
what John's going to do is he's going to have
an area that he's going to focus on. It could
be third and long task games, it could be first
(24:52):
in hand one game, and then they're all going to
split that up and come back together on Tuesdays start
to formulate the plan.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
That's really interesting. Sometimes we're breaking up a little bit,
so I want to give you a little bit of
leeway there. That's interesting, so that you take a certain
down in distance. Almost Scotty Montgomery's doing that. John Morton's
doing that. What about game day? He's got headsets on.
He's up in the booth. Dan Campbell's on the field
(25:25):
of play. First, what's the advantage of being on the
field rather than the booth? Second? What is John Morton
doing while Dan Campbell's calling the plays up in the booth?
Speaker 6 (25:36):
So Dan's on the sideline, he's got the playshoot And
as we discussed, those situations are all predetermined on Wednesday, Thursday,
Friday and practiced. So it does seem sometimes on fourth
and short at the fifty yard line, you're going to
go for it where it's a really stressful call. What
are we going to do well? That's been planned on
(25:58):
Wednesday and Thursday, and so it's a combination of John
the offensive coordinator. He's going to have the best view
from the press box and the view from the sideline
isn't quite as good, so he's going to be able
to share the detail. So you're going to break up
responsibilities for the play caller to help. So first of all,
(26:19):
someone on the staff is going to tell the play
caller what is the down and distance and what is
the hash because you can't see it on the other
side of the field as good as you can from
the box, so's the first thing that goes on. And
then from there, where are we at on the field?
Are we backed up at our own two yard line
or were at the twenty five? It makes the difference
(26:39):
as far as what the defense is going to call,
and then from there the play caller is going to
decide what sort of personnel we're going to attack with.
But it's again all predetermined. We know that on third
and medium at the fifty yard line, the defense are
going to do these three things, and then from there, offensively,
we know that we have. Our best personnel is going
(27:02):
to be eleven personnel because you've got the three wideouts
and Sam Laflorida in there, and so it's already predetermined.
So in those down in distances, the staff will come
together on Thursday and Friday and they'll rank the plays.
They'll say, okay, on third, medium or fourth and short,
we have these six plays. What do you guys think
(27:23):
should be the first one? Second one, third one? And
so it's already predeterminate. So that's that big play sheet
that you see coach Campbell with on the sideline. Looks
like a big pizza box, but it's got probably over
two hundred plays on it. But they're all situational. And
then there could be plays where we want to get
the ball to Jmo. How do we do that? Here's
(27:43):
these three plays, so we know that we get somebody
so explosive to the ball and it doesn't just it
just doesn't go by the wayside.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Longtime coach play caller Jeff Jennik joining us here on
Exus and Bros. Giving us the perspective of a coach
on what happens when an offensive coordinator of Nola Unger
is calling plays and what his responsibilities are. It's a
fascinating in depth look into that mindset and that world.
What did you notice most about Detroit with Dan Campbell
(28:13):
calling the plays compared to the week before, Because it's
not like John Morton had done a bad job against
Baltimore or Cleveland or Cincinnati or Chicago, but the change
was made. What was the biggest difference from one week
to the next.
Speaker 6 (28:25):
Do you think, well, certainly, you know, John's did a
fantastic job. I mean, the last three games we've averaged
over thirty points, so it's not all of a sudden
it went into the tank. The other thing to think about, too,
is that Washington is the twenty ninth ranked defense in
the NFL, so we were going against the Texans or
the Broncos either, So just keep that in mind as
(28:47):
we're looking at this. I think the biggest difference when
the head coach takes over the play calling is he
doesn't really have to answer it to anyone. You know,
it's not as if the general manager is going to
start questioning play calling. That's not going to be his role.
So therefore you can maybe just maybe just be a
little bit more risk taking, a little bit less caution
(29:10):
to the win, you don't have to answer, and in
some cases, depending on how involved the head coach is,
the offensive coordinator, you know, feels like I'm going to
call this play and if it goes awry, you know,
I'm going to get a good talking to on the headset. Now,
I'm not saying that's the case within Allen Park, but
in many cases in my career, it can almost be
(29:32):
a play to play emotion where the head coach is
going what was that, you know, and then all of
a sudden you start to feel a little less risk taking,
you know, a little bit less going for it. And
so obviously with the head coach calling it that he
can do whatever he wants and he only really has
to answer to himself and perhaps the media.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
When you're calling plays. What's the balance between they haven't
stopped this yet, I'm going to keep shoving it down
their throat, or I'm going to keep playing making them
adjust to that to I'm going to mix it up
and I don't want to get too stale and do
the same thing over and over and over again, even
though it's being successful. What's that balance for you?
Speaker 6 (30:11):
Well, it's a fine line, It really is a fine line.
That's a great question, because it's very easy to get
into a comfort zone and keep doing the same thing. However,
at the Division one college level and the NFL level,
there is so much videotape exchange and it's so accessible
really to all the coaches. So when you have your
(30:32):
offensive package, the reason it has to be so multiple,
with different personnel groups, many many different formations, different shifts
and motions, is because you've got to keep that defensive
coordinator and that defensive staff of the opponent off balance.
And so it's a fine line. It's easy to get
into comfort and say, well, this work, this work, But
(30:54):
usually at the NFL level, they're going to be able
to make adjustments and you're going to not get away
with much. Especially now for a long time in the NFL,
the iPads are available, So now players and coaches, when
they're on the sideline, they're actually seeing almost in real
time what just happened, and it's not like we're going
(31:15):
to have to figure it out on Monday or in
college on Sunday.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
We know, what have you noticed as being the biggest
change in football during your coaching tenure, And I know
you've been with some great coaches, including Pat Fitzgerald, who
should be back at the collegiate game sometime soon. I
think he's a phenomenal coach. But what's been the biggest change,
because I've seen a lot of more, a lot more
(31:40):
you know, twelve personnel, thirteen personnel with tight ends. How
would you answer that?
Speaker 6 (31:46):
Well, I think, first of all, you know, if you
go back twenty twenty five years, it's the aspect where
so many people are in the shotgun as quarterbacks, giving
the quarterback a better view of being able to still
really have a good run game out of a gun.
And the tempo aspect of going fast. You know, it's
probably faded away a little bit recently, but going fast
(32:07):
and getting more plays in so more plays equals potentially
more more points. But yes, definitely, I feel like the
advent of how good the tight ends are and how
many you can have. You know, we saw just a
couple of weeks ago the Rams come out and they're
primarily a fourteen personnel team. But what's that? What's four
(32:27):
tight ends in the game? And so all of a sudden,
when you shift those pieces around those tight ends as
they move from one side to the other side, of
the formation, they create an extra gap to defend, and
if you put two of them and start shifting two
and three, you then add extra gaps. And obviously most
of those tight ends roughly six four to sixty six
(32:49):
two hundred and fifty pounds. They're able to block almost
any safety or corner out of the way and be
able to hold their own against a lot of linebackers
and defensive ends. So I think that that's pretty perceptive,
and I think that that is something that's really changed
the game a little bit.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
Longtime coach, a long time play caller, Jeff Jenik Joining
is here on EXIG and Bros. To give us this
coaching perspective. Do you give your quarterback more than one
play on every play? How does it work with them
in the huddle, getting to the line of scrimmage and
oftentimes either touching their helmet yelling kill. How does that
relationship and dynamic work.
Speaker 6 (33:26):
Well, it's really helpful for the offense because now it
gives a play caller the latitude to really call two
plays at one time, sometimes three plays at one time,
and all the players note that we have play a
on and if we use the word to go to
a different color or a signal it's going to change
that play. It really is up to the play caller
(33:50):
and how much the quarterback can handle. You know, the
young quarterbacks in the league, especially if you come from
like an air raid offense and all of a sudden
you're putting it to post build walls type style offense
where it's very worthy and the play calls can be
eight to ten to twelve words in a play call.
It depends on how much they can handle, because even
(34:13):
though you might want to get in the exact right play,
sometimes you can confuse yourself. You saw this of the
Bikers have eight fallse starts. Well, that was at home,
and that's a situation where maybe there was just too
much in the game plan and they just couldn't handle.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
It all when they break the huddle. As a play caller,
what's the ideal number on the play clock for them
to be able to make the changes they need to make.
How quickly do you have to.
Speaker 6 (34:40):
Get it in I'd say right around fifteen seconds. I
think that because the communication from the coach to the
quarterback and it's fifteen seconds left on the forty second clock,
you still have enough time to identify what the defense
is doing, get them sets, the quarterbacks obviously seeing the episode,
the offensive line, everybody is really perceptive of what the
(35:03):
defense is doing and then allow it to unfold. Because
you know those timeouts, especially in the second half, they're
like goals. You just don't want to use them for
some play call issue. And so really I think fifteen
to that twelve second mark, you start changing plays, et cetera.
So you can snap the ball in between three and five.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
Seconds or may how far ahead are you looking on
your play sheet? Like, are you even noticing if a
play works or are you immediately thinking what's next or
what's next in the three plays ahead, four plays ahead?
How far in advance are you thinking about it?
Speaker 6 (35:36):
Well, keep in mind now you have your whole offensive
staff helping you. So, as I said, the offensive coordinator
could be telling the head coach, Hey, dot this, etc.
But then somebody else is looking at on first down,
what has the front and the coverage been of the opponent?
What's the trend there on first down? Hey, on second
(35:57):
and short, they've done this and this. So you are
looking forward, but you're using the information of what they've
presented in the first quarter and how they're defending certain
personnel groups and certain formations to know exactly how to
change it up. And if you look at what the
vikings do, you know they're coming afteus so much. You know,
(36:17):
it really makes it almost simpler because you know that
they're bringing five and six guys every single time. So
you want to really be able to analyze what the
defense is doing to your personnel, to your down in
distance play call and then if it's successful. But it
also is how are you playing and how is the
health of your team? You might have a package anyway
(36:38):
you want to use three tight ends, you lose one,
now that's out. The same thing with two running backs
or three wideouts. How's the healthier team? And how does
that pertain to what you want call?
Speaker 3 (36:49):
Coach? What's the biggest misconception about football? Do you think?
I've said for a long time, as much as we
all love it, and we even played it at the
high school level, we think we know. It's probably the
one sport we think we know, but we really don't.
What's the biggest misconception?
Speaker 6 (37:04):
Well, I just think that the amount of time that
the common fan thinks said is put in, you can
almost double it in your mind. I mean people kind
of joke around, Oh yeah, I work one hundred hours
a week or I had a ninety hour week. Well
that's really the reality. In the NFL or in Division
one college football, you are working into that eighty ninety
(37:27):
one hundred hours a week because you have so much
detail to do. And I think that the level of
complexity and the adjustments that are made in game are
so significant and they're really hard to see unless you're
able to rewind the tape and understand what your philosophy
is offense, defense or special teams.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
All Right, The last thing I would say, we always
hear about second half adjustments, which I sometimes laugh at
because I think you're always making adjustments. What's halftime like
when you have a short period of time, Well, you.
Speaker 6 (38:00):
Have, as we know, twenty minutes, and so immediately when
you go into the locker room, it's it's chaos because
you know, people need to adjust their equipment, their tap job,
people need to go to the restroom, so on and
so forth. So immediately when you get in, you want
your special team coordinator to hit the ground immediately running
(38:22):
so that the offensive staff is going to go into
a room and they're going to talk for about five
minutes what we like in the second half, what we
don't like, what are our injury adjustments, et cetera. Both
offensive defensive staffs do that immediately. Special team coordinator grabs Okay,
we had a problem with the punt. We had a
problem with the kickoff return. Let's go over that on
a grease sport, or let's look at that on the iPad.
(38:45):
And then from there was about thirteen minutes left in
the half, you'll basically have an offense and defensive meeting
on one side of the locker room. We'll do the
defense and the defensive coordinator and coaches, and then the offense.
So you'll do that from about fourteen minutes left to
about hey, this is working, this is what they're doing,
we have to do this, et cetera. And then about
(39:08):
eleven about seven minutes remaining at halftime, you have like
a position meeting that all the time ends with the
tight end coach. The running backs do with the right
or the running backs coach, and you have a little
position meeting. Okay, you know, we are not doing a
good job on this particular double team block. We've got
to be lower talk about fundamentals, talk about execution, talk
about what they're doing, and you'll get some trough feedback
(39:29):
from your players. Hey, I can't handle this guy. This guy,
I can't lock him. I need help, And so you
get some honest communication so that you can make the adjustments,
and then it with about six minutes left. The head
coach will have maybe a thirty second message about what
we need to do on the first possession, and then
you're out warming up with five minutes left.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
Fascinating stuff, insightful, incredibly well done. Thank you, coach. Always
appreciate it. Expect to see you back on the sidelines
very very soon at some program. They'll be lucky to
have you. Thanks for the time today. Always enjoy the conversation.
Speaker 6 (40:02):
All right, Thanks so much to all my friends at
the catialang A ticket where I listen to Schep every morning.
I appreciate the time.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
I appreciate that very much. That's awesome. Appreciate it, coach.
Good to have you. Jeff Jennik, great insight man. I mean,
that was fantastic, wasn't it. You learn a lot from
something like that. We'll talk a little bit about it
on the other side when we come back on and
tell me more Tuesday after this
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And welcome back for second hour. Glad you're with us,
EXUS and Bros. Here on the Michigan Sports Network. I'm
Matt Sheppard. I'm not going to suggest that Jalen Duran
and the question of the Piston signing him is going
to meet that of Trek Scuuble on the Tigers. That's asinine. Okay,
Trek's Scouoble at what he does is better than what
(01:20):
Jalen Durham does, what his craft is. But Jalen Durn's
a lot younger and has a chance to make a
massive impact. You know, as long as Kate Cunningham's on
this team and healthy, he's I don't think he'll ever
be the best player on this team, like Kerk Schooble's
the best player probably on the Tigers. However, I do
(01:44):
think it's worthy at some point if this continues, I
do think it's worthy of having a discussion on how
important he is for the future of this franchise moving forward,
because remember, he's a guy who is these one of
twelve players to forego signing that rookie extension prior to
the season. Would you say it's paying off for him?
(02:04):
I would say yes, absolutely. He's on pace to average
a double double for a third consecutive season. In fact,
going into the game last night, I believe he had
one hundred and ten career double doubles. In fact, I
think he's got now one hundred and eleven before the
(02:26):
age of twenty two, that's tied with Shaquille O'Neal for
fourth most all time. That's pretty flipping good, right, and
I know that. Look, if you don't like him, here's
what you're going to say. He's a garbage cleaner, cleans
up the glass, puts it back in. I am not
comparing him to Shaquille O'Neal. Please don't take that leap.
(02:48):
I am not saying that that's what Shaquille O'Neal was. Now, bigger, stronger,
tougher to guard, without question. But Shaquille O'Neill, it's not
like he had this game that expanded to fifteen feet
struggled mightily from the free throw line. Right, You're not
(03:09):
guarding him at the elbow. The only way you do
that is because you don't want him turning a corner
and coming downhill and run over you. Because that's three
hundred pounds of a massive human being. So I don't
blame you. I wouldn't want to take that charge. Burke
going the other way. Everybody's standing cheers. Meanwhile, you know
your chest is caved in. No thank you. But Jalen
(03:32):
Duran plays a certain role and he's getting better at
that role. He's getting better defensively. You can notice it, right,
I think his offensive game is expanding slowly, but surely.
I like that a lot. It's been really impressive. He's
getting better at the free throw line. Okay, attempts are
(03:52):
increasing a little bit. Early on this season. I got
to look at what his numbers are now, But early
this year, what was he shooting from the free throw line?
Do you remember Trent about eighty four percent? Last year
he shot about sixty four percent.
Speaker 5 (04:07):
Yeah, I think his career average is like sixty five.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Okay, he's he's he's a lot better at that now.
Speaker 5 (04:14):
Yeah, he got off to a great start, and I
think you're right it's around.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Eighty Yeah, eighty point eight percent. Missed that second one
last night, damn it. That's the way it goes. Anyway.
My point is, at some point we're going to look
at that situation and probably say to ourselves, Okay, he's
(04:37):
a guy that this team could absolutely build around. I
can tell you this. Around the league, when you look
at guys who were on contract years, he's one of
those names that other teams are looking at saying, you
know what, we might want to make a bit on
a guy like this. Could be a Quentin Grimes, could
(04:57):
be an Austin Reeves, could be a lot different guys.
But Jalen duran Is in that conversation, could be calling
Sexton cam Thomas. There's different guys. Okay, he's one of
those guys. I like that aspect of it. I love
the fact that he is a guy who's, you know,
(05:17):
coming into his own that it's not going to be
a one man show. He's playing a lot of minutes
twenty nine. I'd like to see it. I'd actually I'd
like to see him get those minutes up a little
bit quite honestly. We'll see what happens with it. But
it's a really nice win for Detroit in a comeback effort,
and the contagious feel that this team has has been
(05:43):
pretty fun to watch. That's what can happen early on now.
Is there going to be a time where you stub
your toe? Absolutely so. We don't want to get too
caught up in it. Got caught up in it last
year with the Lions, got caught up in it this
year with the Tigers.
Speaker 5 (05:58):
I was just going to say the Tigers is a
great example of that.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Yeah, I got burned a little bit. Right. Of course,
it doesn't mean you and I can't live in a moment.
I don't want people to feel that way. You can.
You just can't take it too far. We, including when
I say we, I'm including myself here, took the Tigers
perhaps a little too far. We were saying, look, this
(06:25):
is a team that's the best team in baseball. Yep, okay,
And in fairness to you and I, they were at
the time. We said that they had the best record
in baseball, they had the best run differential in baseball,
they were top five, and all the key offensive categories
in baseball. I warned about the defense a little bit.
The base running was among the best in all of baseball,
(06:48):
first to third, okay, second to home among the best.
Something happened. We still can't quite explain it. That many
bats going quiet at the same time. A lot of
changeover in the coaching staff. It's been pretty consistent where
the coaching staff has kind of rolled over. You're getting
(07:10):
different first base coaches, different third base coaches, different hitting coaches.
You got the same pitching coach, the same bench coach,
the same manager. Those are most important, I would say,
although you know hitting coaches are pretty damn important. But
you're seeing a lot of turnover, which makes me just
wonder just a little bit. Why. Okay, goodbye Gary Jones,
(07:30):
goodbye way back in the day, Chip Hale had a
better opportunity in college a number of different things, Okay,
Anthony Ioposi, there's changes where you're like, why is why?
Why are the minor league managers being jettisoned off too?
Speaker 5 (07:44):
Didn't ship Hale go back to Arizona State or something?
Speaker 3 (07:47):
I think it was Arizona, Yeah, okay, And then that
was early That was like the first year in those
twenty nineteen it was early hot. Yeah, nobody was going
to stand in his way. I just there is a
bit of a turnover there at first and third and
Ramon Santiago and different people moving on. It's kind of odd, Okay.
I don't know how much that matters to people. I
(08:09):
don't even know if they're paying quite honestly, paying close
attention to it, But it does seem just like there's
a hard way of getting continuity. Like if a third
base coach is going to be a manager, Ron Washington
leaves the Angels to be the manager of another team,
that's one thing, But just moving on from guys for
the sake of moving on seems just a little odd
(08:29):
to me. And I don't think many people are paying
attention because they're trying to figure out which free agency
trade is going to get next? Is Alex Bregman your
top priority? Which brings up an interesting question. I mean,
what is the priority? What do you think the priority
of the Detroit Tigers should be? Scientieric Scooble, go hard
(08:53):
after a free agent like Alex Bregman. You know, I'm
seeing all these different names of players. I've brought up
Dylan Sees for example, thinking he would be a really
good fit, and looks like they've got him going to Houston.
John Paul Morosi, I think said that yesterday.
Speaker 5 (09:09):
Well Ship, that could be a good poll question to
put in the bank. What should the priority of the
Detroit Tigers beat this offseason?
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Right? And we would say Signieric Scoubel, which would probably
be one hundred percent, go after a third baseman like
Alex Bragman. If you wanted to be specific, what else
would it be? Add a number two starter?
Speaker 5 (09:33):
Yeah, I was going to say, add another picture.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Okay, No one's going to put number two starter over
Derek Scuble. No, and then I think Evan Petzel will
three per put something about Kevin McGonagall. How quickly will
he Oh that's a good one. May bring up the
young guys. Okay, so young guys are young guy? I mean,
that's that's the big question. Well, yeah, I got yeah,
I guess I would narrow it down to two. Do
(09:56):
you would you rather extend Rek Scubel or sign Alex?
My guess is most people would say Trek school because
he's homegrown, he's our guy, and he's twenty nine years
old and you want him forever.
Speaker 5 (10:08):
But it would be interesting to see how many people
opt for the everyday player.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Yes, yeah, it would be I think. What's what's even
just as interesting is that I'm seeing even members of
the media. Excuse me, even members of the media say this,
just give him four hundred twenty five million dollars right now.
And I just I don't understand if they truly do
the research about that and get it. Maybe I'm off base.
Speaker 6 (10:36):
There.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Our phone number on the Meyer hotline eight six six
eight three eight forty eight forty three. You can text
to a sports radio twenty one thousand. Jeff Jannick joins
his bottom of the hour. What does an offensive coordinator
do while the head coach is calling the plays? And
what does a week look like as he preps. It's
an interesting conversation I think you'll enjoyed. At seven thirty five,
We're brought to you on this telling More Tuesday, this
hour by a friends at Meyer.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Brought to you by Honniken zero zero. Get the facts.
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Buck, his short shorts are a bit too short, and
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It was Holk zero zero.
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But he's our.
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Best mate, and even though he's always banging on about
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Speaker 7 (11:28):
Defensively, Lopez showed up big time. Man. He was disruptive.
You know, he's just been a quietly productive guy for
us the whole season and just really stepped up in
a big weight branch. Was all over the field, played aggressive, smart,
got him going active player Jack Campbell Man. He just
continues to get better and better. I mean, he's he's
(11:50):
our bellcow over there man and Saul's issues play snapped
a whistle. I thought TA played much better overall. That
was good to see.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Dan Campbell at the podium yesterday. Courtesy of Detroit Lions
dot com. So we appreciate them making that available to you.
In case you can't find it. Welcome back, Exes and Bros.
Monday through Friday, six until nine, eight six six eight
three eight forty eight forty three is the phone number.
The text line is Sports Radio to twenty one thousand.
Jeff Jenik will join us about twenty minutes from now
(12:23):
or so to talk about, you know, the perspective of
an offensive coordinator while the head coach is calling the place,
what is it they're doing to get ready. It's going
to be an interesting conversation. Jeff has coached at Wisconsin,
he's coached at Northwestern, He's coached at Cal, He's been
the head coach at Eastern Michigan. He's been around football
for decades and can really relate and understand what's going
(12:44):
on here. I think it'll be a very very good conversation.
I think you'll enjoy it very much. Dan Campbell yesterday
crediting a lot of different guys as part of prepping
for the Washington Commanders, including John Morton. I think there's
an overreaction. We're going to overreact to everything everybody does,
even ex players. It surprises me how they can be
(13:07):
just as emotional as fans in general, saying that you
know his days are over. John Morton's gonna get fired.
John Morton is not going to call plays again. I
think there's a very good chance that he will call
plays again.
Speaker 5 (13:21):
Well, I think people, I think Lions fans draw back
to the Anthony Lynn situation, when Dan Campbell took back.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Ben Johnson situation, when Dan Campbell admitted, look, I helped
Ben Johnson call plays a little bit, learn to call
plays a little bit for eight to nine games.
Speaker 5 (13:39):
Yeah, I don't think it's the same. I just think
maybe that's where fans' minds go, if they think John
Morton's out the door.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Yeah, it could be. But remember when Dan Campbell took
over play call and then he fired Anthony Lynn right away.
He didn't fire John Morton. He's not going to. I
don't think now after the season that may happen. I
don't know. I mean, I saw people on on social
media yesterday saying Detroit should bring in Brian Dabele. I'm like,
are you serious, right, nuts, I mean that dude, he
(14:09):
looks toxic to me. I mean that's we love all
the behind the scenes stuff. We love Hard Knocks, don't
we yea. But it also can be a very negative thing.
Like he can be a great it can be a
positive thing. It was a positive thing for Kelvin Shepard.
Remember when they had him in the linebackers room and
he's everyone's talking. He's talking about Malcolm Rodriguez. This is
(14:31):
a rookie. This is no events to you, Rodrigo, but
this is a rookie. I gotta start him. If you
guys aren't gonna play blah blah. He goes on and on.
That helped Kelvin. That helped Kelvin Shepard. It helped Dan Campbell, right,
I mean people seem to instead of just the kneecaps comment,
people liked and were reiterating what he said during Hard Knocks.
(14:54):
But it hurts Brian Dabele.
Speaker 5 (14:56):
All I think about is you guys, man.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
So Brian Dable gets canned and he'll find a job somewhere.
I mean, he was with Josh Allen in Buffalo. There's
nothing wrong with that. But we have a tendency to
overreact to things, and there's a belief I think among
fans and media that you know, John Morton, this is irreparable.
(15:21):
How are you going to possibly face the cameras and
the microphones, How in the world are you going to
answer all these questions. Dan Campbell was really good with it,
really good. He's like, look, I wanted to change some
things up, so I made a decision as a head coach,
as a CEO of a football team to change some things.
(15:41):
Doesn't mean that he can't go back, and it wouldn't
surprise me if he did. As long as you know,
you get a situation where you're like, okay, John Morton
understands the rhythm. What did a lot of players say
they were missing against Minnesota? They were missing a flow? Yep,
they were missing a rhythm. There's I had mentioned, not
(16:03):
that I'm an offensive coordinator by any stretch. Okay, because
I say this all the time about football. It's the
one sport we think we know, but we don't. There's
so many other things going on the conversation that is
taking place between an offensive coordinator, a head coach, and
a quarterback. There's a great rip of Matthew Stafford getting
(16:24):
something from Sean McVay. Did you see it this past weekend?
By chance, he was on Instagram. Sean mcvay's telling him
this play. He's talking to him. Stafford's like, I got it.
He keeps talking to him, and Stafford's looking at his huddle.
He goes, you guys have no idea what I'm going
through right now. He says, this is crazy. He's looking
back at the sideline. He's like, I got it, I
got it. Stop, please stop, please stop. I say it
(16:49):
all the time. Offensive coordinators are the most insecure people.
They want control of everything, right, So.
Speaker 5 (16:54):
He's ever like, it's unbelievable what I'm getting right now?
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Yeah, that's what he just said. Yeah to the huddle,
He's like, this is unbelievable. Okay, you basically you started
laughing at it. You know, it's ridiculous. Okay, if I
don't know if you've got that, I should have sent
it to you. But try to get that and play it.
It's funny, yeah, way, but it would be worse if
you were losing, they were winning, so it's kind of comical.
(17:18):
There are so many things that go on in football,
Like people think an offensive coordinator is just up there
going hmm and second down to three, should I call No?
You are looking three to four plays ahead. They barely
even recognize they barely even see the play. They call
the play, they see what happens, it's great, and then
(17:40):
they're immediately they don't have time to high five, do
a you know, grab a drink of water and slam
it down and all this other stuff. They got to
move on to the next play. There's so many things
that go to it's so complex. It really is one
of my I hate the phrase it's not rocket science.
Yeah it is. In football, it is. There's so much
(18:04):
crep that you're trying to digest and then spit out
in such a short period of time. Ideally, what's the
number a quarterback would love to have on the play
clock when you're walking to the line of scrimmage. Ideally,
if you're talking about eleven seconds, twelve seconds, you feel
(18:26):
pretty good, right, you break the hoddle, you're at the
line of scrimmage, you got about eleven seconds to diagnose
and then get into the play that you want you
think is gonna work best. You can't do that when
you're up there and there's five seconds last. You got
a burn of time out. You're gonna take a penalty,
or you're gonna have the wrong damn play, and no
(18:48):
one's gonna be on the same page. It's a lot
more than we think. It is. Not you and I
playing a video game and saying, Okay, I've got all
the time in the world. Do I want to send
two guys on a fly pattern, a one on a
dig route, or one guy on a post and two
guys on out patterns. It's not how it works. This
will give you. The conversation with Jeff Jenek will give
(19:09):
you a very interesting perspective, perhaps a newer perspective on
what offensive coordinators, what football coaches in general go through.
So I'm looking forward to that conversation. I think you
will be too. Dan Campbell was really impressed with the defense.
I love that about it. I love that he brings
(19:30):
up guys like Roy Lopez since he gets glossed over.
We rarely talk about defensive tackles unless it's Aaron Donald.
We're not talking about defensive tackles very often. But what
I found interesting is what he said about Jack Campbell
and how he solves things on the field. Again, another
aspect of football. We think we know, hey forty six.
(19:52):
He's just looking for the ball and then going and
tackle on the guy. He's putting guys in certain positions, Anzeloni.
I need Joe over here, Roy Lopez, I'm gonna tap
you on the right hip, I need you to move
to your left. I'm gonna set guys up in certain situations.
Then I'm going to recognize the tendencies that that team
usually has, and then I've got to make the play.
(20:16):
All of that is pre snap, and some of it
is faking things so the offense gets into a different play, okay,
or you give one look and you do something completely different.
I'm going to show blitz, but I'm not blitzing here.
That's just simplistic. But you understand the point. So I
think that's the fun part about it. And what we
(20:38):
don't give Jack Campbell nearly enough credit. For sure, we
see him stand up or running back, go mug to
mug at the gold line, saying you're not getting in
on my watch, throwing back and everybody goes crazy because
that is a badass linebacker. Jonathan Vilma was all about
it right during the broadcast on Fox. But it's a
hell of a lot more than that. In order for
(20:59):
him to make that play, he had to do a
lot of different things prior to the snap. In general,
it's one of the many things I absolutely love love
about football. You've never seen it all, you've never known
it all. Something is different on a regular basis. You
may run sixty eight plays in football, and there's going
(21:23):
to be a time where whether it be Matthew Stafford
or Cam Wore, a guy who's into seventeen seasons or
first season, that's something new. That's something I didn't see before.
Speaker 5 (21:34):
Jeff, I got that Matthew Stafford sound you want that
to take us in a break?
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Yeah, listen to this. This is fantastic. Thank you. Then
we'll go to break and we'll be back after that.
On a Tullymore Tuesday, brought to you by Meyer with
Jeff Jennik on the other side giving us his perspective
on what an OC does while the head coach is
calling plays. This is Matthew Stafford on Sunday for the Rams.
Go Yeah, here it is.
Speaker 8 (21:55):
I got it, I got it, I got it. Please stop, yes,
please stop. Oh my god, he's still gone. He's still gone. Hey,
he's still going. Hey, snatch this if you get all right,
I mean this, He's still going. You're one and a
half yards from an edge split in the middle. I mean,
this is unbelievable what I'm getting right now.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Okay, back with you, Back with you on EXUS and Bros.
Throughout the state of Michigan. We're connecting with Jeff Jennik.
Really excited to talk to him about the the responsibilities
of coaches and how detailed things can be and how
just how challenging football in general, I mean on the
offensive side, because Jeff was a brilliant offensive mind. And
(22:50):
the coach now joins us here on EXUS and Brows.
Good friend of the program, outstanding coach has been at
Wisconsin cal Northwestern Eastern Michigan. It's been around a long
long time. It's worked with some great men, and he
joins us here on excess and growth. Jeff, we appreciate
it as always. Thanks coach. So you and I have
talked in the past, and I know you were a
(23:12):
play caller yourself when it's taken away like John Morton
had it taken away and Dan Campbell takes over. What
does John Morton do during the week and what was
his responsibility do you think on game day coach.
Speaker 6 (23:25):
Well, good morning, chef and the happy veterans data all.
Well to wake up with the Pistons and the Lions
in first place.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
Yeah, that's fantastic way to go.
Speaker 6 (23:37):
So, first of all, you know, as far as the
affe and game planning is concerned, you know, it's a
significant collaboration of five, seven, eight ten people within the
building mill in Allen Park. And what John is going
to do is he is still going to be responsible
for coordinating all of the selection, personnel, selection, et cetera. Now, okay,
(24:05):
you know a decision was made early in the week,
probably Monday of last week where Dance that he's going
to be more involved, and so the head coach is
going to spend more of his time in the offensive
staff rooms, in the things you planning what sort of
person we're going to use. Personnel you saw where there
(24:29):
was twenty personnel, two running backs, three wide receivers to
use Gibs and Montgomery together. And so what goes on
is the aspect of on Monday, you're going to sit
down and your staff is going to break up. So
what John's going to do is he's going to have
an area that he's going to focus on. It could
be third and long task games, it could be first
(24:52):
in hand one game, and then they're all going to
split that up and come back together on Tuesdays start
to formulate the plan.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
That's really interesting. Sometimes we're breaking up a little bit,
so I want to give you a little bit of
leeway there. That's interesting, so that you take a certain
down in distance. Almost Scotty Montgomery's doing that. John Morton's
doing that. What about game day? He's got headsets on.
He's up in the booth. Dan Campbell's on the field
(25:25):
of play. First, what's the advantage of being on the
field rather than the booth? Second? What is John Morton
doing while Dan Campbell's calling the plays up in the booth?
Speaker 6 (25:36):
So Dan's on the sideline, he's got the playshoot And
as we discussed, those situations are all predetermined on Wednesday, Thursday,
Friday and practiced. So it does seem sometimes on fourth
and short at the fifty yard line, you're going to
go for it where it's a really stressful call. What
are we going to do well? That's been planned on
(25:58):
Wednesday and Thursday, and so it's a combination of John
the offensive coordinator. He's going to have the best view
from the press box and the view from the sideline
isn't quite as good, so he's going to be able
to share the detail. So you're going to break up
responsibilities for the play caller to help. So first of all,
(26:19):
someone on the staff is going to tell the play
caller what is the down and distance and what is
the hash because you can't see it on the other
side of the field as good as you can from
the box, so's the first thing that goes on. And
then from there, where are we at on the field?
Are we backed up at our own two yard line
or were at the twenty five? It makes the difference
(26:39):
as far as what the defense is going to call,
and then from there the play caller is going to
decide what sort of personnel we're going to attack with.
But it's again all predetermined. We know that on third
and medium at the fifty yard line, the defense are
going to do these three things, and then from there, offensively,
we know that we have. Our best personnel is going
(27:02):
to be eleven personnel because you've got the three wideouts
and Sam Laflorida in there, and so it's already predetermined.
So in those down in distances, the staff will come
together on Thursday and Friday and they'll rank the plays.
They'll say, okay, on third, medium or fourth and short,
we have these six plays. What do you guys think
(27:23):
should be the first one? Second one, third one? And
so it's already predeterminate. So that's that big play sheet
that you see coach Campbell with on the sideline. Looks
like a big pizza box, but it's got probably over
two hundred plays on it. But they're all situational. And
then there could be plays where we want to get
the ball to Jmo. How do we do that? Here's
(27:43):
these three plays, so we know that we get somebody
so explosive to the ball and it doesn't just it
just doesn't go by the wayside.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Longtime coach play caller Jeff Jennik joining us here on
Exus and Bros. Giving us the perspective of a coach
on what happens when an offensive coordinator of Nola Unger
is calling plays and what his responsibilities are. It's a
fascinating in depth look into that mindset and that world.
What did you notice most about Detroit with Dan Campbell
(28:13):
calling the plays compared to the week before, Because it's
not like John Morton had done a bad job against
Baltimore or Cleveland or Cincinnati or Chicago, but the change
was made. What was the biggest difference from one week
to the next.
Speaker 6 (28:25):
Do you think, well, certainly, you know, John's did a
fantastic job. I mean, the last three games we've averaged
over thirty points, so it's not all of a sudden
it went into the tank. The other thing to think about, too,
is that Washington is the twenty ninth ranked defense in
the NFL, so we were going against the Texans or
the Broncos either, So just keep that in mind as
(28:47):
we're looking at this. I think the biggest difference when
the head coach takes over the play calling is he
doesn't really have to answer it to anyone. You know,
it's not as if the general manager is going to
start questioning play calling. That's not going to be his role.
So therefore you can maybe just maybe just be a
little bit more risk taking, a little bit less caution
(29:10):
to the win, you don't have to answer, and in
some cases, depending on how involved the head coach is,
the offensive coordinator, you know, feels like I'm going to
call this play and if it goes awry, you know,
I'm going to get a good talking to on the headset. Now,
I'm not saying that's the case within Allen Park, but
in many cases in my career, it can almost be
(29:32):
a play to play emotion where the head coach is
going what was that, you know, and then all of
a sudden you start to feel a little less risk taking,
you know, a little bit less going for it. And
so obviously with the head coach calling it that he
can do whatever he wants and he only really has
to answer to himself and perhaps the media.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
When you're calling plays. What's the balance between they haven't
stopped this yet, I'm going to keep shoving it down
their throat, or I'm going to keep playing making them
adjust to that to I'm going to mix it up
and I don't want to get too stale and do
the same thing over and over and over again, even
though it's being successful. What's that balance for you?
Speaker 6 (30:11):
Well, it's a fine line, It really is a fine line.
That's a great question, because it's very easy to get
into a comfort zone and keep doing the same thing. However,
at the Division one college level and the NFL level,
there is so much videotape exchange and it's so accessible
really to all the coaches. So when you have your
(30:32):
offensive package, the reason it has to be so multiple,
with different personnel groups, many many different formations, different shifts
and motions, is because you've got to keep that defensive
coordinator and that defensive staff of the opponent off balance.
And so it's a fine line. It's easy to get
into comfort and say, well, this work, this work, But
(30:54):
usually at the NFL level, they're going to be able
to make adjustments and you're going to not get away
with much. Especially now for a long time in the NFL,
the iPads are available, So now players and coaches, when
they're on the sideline, they're actually seeing almost in real
time what just happened, and it's not like we're going
(31:15):
to have to figure it out on Monday or in
college on Sunday.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
We know, what have you noticed as being the biggest
change in football during your coaching tenure, And I know
you've been with some great coaches, including Pat Fitzgerald, who
should be back at the collegiate game sometime soon. I
think he's a phenomenal coach. But what's been the biggest change,
because I've seen a lot of more, a lot more
(31:40):
you know, twelve personnel, thirteen personnel with tight ends. How
would you answer that?
Speaker 6 (31:46):
Well, I think, first of all, you know, if you
go back twenty twenty five years, it's the aspect where
so many people are in the shotgun as quarterbacks, giving
the quarterback a better view of being able to still
really have a good run game out of a gun.
And the tempo aspect of going fast. You know, it's
probably faded away a little bit recently, but going fast
(32:07):
and getting more plays in so more plays equals potentially
more more points. But yes, definitely, I feel like the
advent of how good the tight ends are and how
many you can have. You know, we saw just a
couple of weeks ago the Rams come out and they're
primarily a fourteen personnel team. But what's that? What's four
(32:27):
tight ends in the game? And so all of a sudden,
when you shift those pieces around those tight ends as
they move from one side to the other side, of
the formation, they create an extra gap to defend, and
if you put two of them and start shifting two
and three, you then add extra gaps. And obviously most
of those tight ends roughly six four to sixty six
(32:49):
two hundred and fifty pounds. They're able to block almost
any safety or corner out of the way and be
able to hold their own against a lot of linebackers
and defensive ends. So I think that that's pretty perceptive,
and I think that that is something that's really changed
the game a little bit.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
Longtime coach, a long time play caller, Jeff Jenik Joining
is here on EXIG and Bros. To give us this
coaching perspective. Do you give your quarterback more than one
play on every play? How does it work with them
in the huddle, getting to the line of scrimmage and
oftentimes either touching their helmet yelling kill. How does that
relationship and dynamic work.
Speaker 6 (33:26):
Well, it's really helpful for the offense because now it
gives a play caller the latitude to really call two
plays at one time, sometimes three plays at one time,
and all the players note that we have play a
on and if we use the word to go to
a different color or a signal it's going to change
that play. It really is up to the play caller
(33:50):
and how much the quarterback can handle. You know, the
young quarterbacks in the league, especially if you come from
like an air raid offense and all of a sudden
you're putting it to post build walls type style offense
where it's very worthy and the play calls can be
eight to ten to twelve words in a play call.
It depends on how much they can handle, because even
(34:13):
though you might want to get in the exact right play,
sometimes you can confuse yourself. You saw this of the
Bikers have eight fallse starts. Well, that was at home,
and that's a situation where maybe there was just too
much in the game plan and they just couldn't handle.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
It all when they break the huddle. As a play caller,
what's the ideal number on the play clock for them
to be able to make the changes they need to make.
How quickly do you have to.
Speaker 6 (34:40):
Get it in I'd say right around fifteen seconds. I
think that because the communication from the coach to the
quarterback and it's fifteen seconds left on the forty second clock,
you still have enough time to identify what the defense
is doing, get them sets, the quarterbacks obviously seeing the episode,
the offensive line, everybody is really perceptive of what the
(35:03):
defense is doing and then allow it to unfold. Because
you know those timeouts, especially in the second half, they're
like goals. You just don't want to use them for
some play call issue. And so really I think fifteen
to that twelve second mark, you start changing plays, et cetera.
So you can snap the ball in between three and five.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
Seconds or may how far ahead are you looking on
your play sheet? Like, are you even noticing if a
play works or are you immediately thinking what's next or
what's next in the three plays ahead, four plays ahead?
How far in advance are you thinking about it?
Speaker 6 (35:36):
Well, keep in mind now you have your whole offensive
staff helping you. So, as I said, the offensive coordinator
could be telling the head coach, Hey, dot this, etc.
But then somebody else is looking at on first down,
what has the front and the coverage been of the opponent?
What's the trend there on first down? Hey, on second
(35:57):
and short, they've done this and this. So you are
looking forward, but you're using the information of what they've
presented in the first quarter and how they're defending certain
personnel groups and certain formations to know exactly how to
change it up. And if you look at what the
vikings do, you know they're coming afteus so much. You know,
(36:17):
it really makes it almost simpler because you know that
they're bringing five and six guys every single time. So
you want to really be able to analyze what the
defense is doing to your personnel, to your down in
distance play call and then if it's successful. But it
also is how are you playing and how is the
health of your team? You might have a package anyway
(36:38):
you want to use three tight ends, you lose one,
now that's out. The same thing with two running backs
or three wideouts. How's the healthier team? And how does
that pertain to what you want call?
Speaker 3 (36:49):
Coach? What's the biggest misconception about football? Do you think?
I've said for a long time, as much as we
all love it, and we even played it at the
high school level, we think we know. It's probably the
one sport we think we know, but we really don't.
What's the biggest misconception?
Speaker 6 (37:04):
Well, I just think that the amount of time that
the common fan thinks said is put in, you can
almost double it in your mind. I mean people kind
of joke around, Oh yeah, I work one hundred hours
a week or I had a ninety hour week. Well
that's really the reality. In the NFL or in Division
one college football, you are working into that eighty ninety
(37:27):
one hundred hours a week because you have so much
detail to do. And I think that the level of
complexity and the adjustments that are made in game are
so significant and they're really hard to see unless you're
able to rewind the tape and understand what your philosophy
is offense, defense or special teams.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
All Right, The last thing I would say, we always
hear about second half adjustments, which I sometimes laugh at
because I think you're always making adjustments. What's halftime like
when you have a short period of time, Well, you.
Speaker 6 (38:00):
Have, as we know, twenty minutes, and so immediately when
you go into the locker room, it's it's chaos because
you know, people need to adjust their equipment, their tap job,
people need to go to the restroom, so on and
so forth. So immediately when you get in, you want
your special team coordinator to hit the ground immediately running
(38:22):
so that the offensive staff is going to go into
a room and they're going to talk for about five
minutes what we like in the second half, what we
don't like, what are our injury adjustments, et cetera. Both
offensive defensive staffs do that immediately. Special team coordinator grabs Okay,
we had a problem with the punt. We had a
problem with the kickoff return. Let's go over that on
a grease sport, or let's look at that on the iPad.
(38:45):
And then from there was about thirteen minutes left in
the half, you'll basically have an offense and defensive meeting
on one side of the locker room. We'll do the
defense and the defensive coordinator and coaches, and then the offense.
So you'll do that from about fourteen minutes left to
about hey, this is working, this is what they're doing,
we have to do this, et cetera. And then about
(39:08):
eleven about seven minutes remaining at halftime, you have like
a position meeting that all the time ends with the
tight end coach. The running backs do with the right
or the running backs coach, and you have a little
position meeting. Okay, you know, we are not doing a
good job on this particular double team block. We've got
to be lower talk about fundamentals, talk about execution, talk
about what they're doing, and you'll get some trough feedback
(39:29):
from your players. Hey, I can't handle this guy. This guy,
I can't lock him. I need help, And so you
get some honest communication so that you can make the adjustments,
and then it with about six minutes left. The head
coach will have maybe a thirty second message about what
we need to do on the first possession, and then
you're out warming up with five minutes left.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
Fascinating stuff, insightful, incredibly well done. Thank you, coach. Always
appreciate it. Expect to see you back on the sidelines
very very soon at some program. They'll be lucky to
have you. Thanks for the time today. Always enjoy the conversation.
Speaker 6 (40:02):
All right, Thanks so much to all my friends at
the catialang A ticket where I listen to Schep every morning.
I appreciate the time.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
I appreciate that very much. That's awesome. Appreciate it, coach.
Good to have you. Jeff Jennik, great insight man. I mean,
that was fantastic, wasn't it. You learn a lot from
something like that. We'll talk a little bit about it
on the other side when we come back on and
tell me more Tuesday after this
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