Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
iHeartMedia Presents CEOs you should know. Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm John Dinkle, founder and CEO of Dinkle Business Development
and former president and publisher of the Baltimore Business Journal.
This is iHeartRadio CEOs you should know and I'm here
today with de Lali Jirasa, founder and CEO of Fearless.
Welcome to lay and thank you for being here.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
All right, thanks so much, Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Appreciate you taking the time to talk. Looking forward to
catching up with you. So I thought we'd start off
by just getting to know you and the organization a
little bit more so for those who may not be familiar,
could you tell us about Fearless?
Speaker 1 (00:33):
So absolutely so Fearless we are. We're an impact from
right and really our mission is to build towards the
better tomorrow and really believe in this idea of impacting profits.
We work largely through governments, create technical solutions as well
as you know, conditions for people and organizations to thrive. Right, So,
anywhere where someone is helping to move their organization forward
(00:54):
to drive some other outcome, they needs some sort of technology,
we're a partner for them.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
And where are you doing business? I'm sure probably all
over the country, right we are.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
We are so some of the largest agencies in federal government,
including UH centers for Medicare and Medicaid, the General Services
Administration powering much of the national archives for the federal government,
running search platforms like search back gov, the Small Business Administration,
and and just to name a few.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Got it great? And you know you kind of describe
yourself as a digital services integrate or as opposed to
maybe a digital services firm. Could you talk about that
a little bit, and you know, is there anything that
and maybe you can talk about some of the things
that differentiate you from you know, similar firms. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Absolutely. When you think traditionally about a digital services firm, right,
they really rose in the last couple of administrations around
you have these large government systems that often would you know,
work on for years and they end up failing. And
so there's this idea of like wait a minute, we'll
companies and you know, Silicon Valley, you guys can build
web apps, you guys can build technology. It doesn't fail
(02:04):
every other day, and so there's really this rise of
digital surface fums, right that that talked about. We really
understand human centered design and talking to users and how
you build systems that are intuitive that don't have you know,
these really complex user manuals around them, and the tech
can scale up and down with the cloud easily. And
so there were principles, fundamental principles you know, using agile,
human centered design, iterative development, et cetera. Right that really
(02:28):
you know, gave rise to this kind of community of
of firms in this space. And then you kind of
have another camp. And this other camp is you know,
systems integrators, and you say, you think about these really
really large government contractors that we all have heard of
and and know, and they can really do things at scale,
but the ability oftentimes to do again some of this
(02:50):
more modern application development, modern modern way of how we
do business, uh, just isn't there. And so we really
think that there is a space to create something that's
the best of both worlds, because those camps largely dislike
each other. And so there is a world where you
can being kind of the best practices of building and
(03:11):
modernizing technology, but how you do it at scale, which
the digital services firms don't today, And that's kind of
where we sit. You think about the things that might
differentiate fearless overall to really both parts of that camp,
and I'll say that there are a few. Number one,
it's how we do the business right. It's not just
the technology, it's also the organizational development parts of the transformation.
(03:36):
You can build tech, and you can deploy technology, but
often we find when technology fails, it isn't the tech,
it's anything that's side of the tech, right. No one thought.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
About that, meaning like the process behind it exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
No one thought about adoption. No one thought about training
or change management, or you didn't change how you did
your bisiness right, all of those types of things, and
so we actually bring both to bear when we think
about transformation.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
That's one that's cool.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
A second thing that we think about is really this
inclusive workforce that we have that really looks like and
represents America. You know what's interesting about public sector is,
you know, when you build a system in the public sector,
it kind of has to work for everybody, right, and
so someone's you know eighteen versus someone's you know, great grandmother,
(04:28):
they all got to be able to use it, right,
because it's taxpayer money and it has to just work.
And so to be able to do that, you need
to be able to build the systems with people that
represent all those perspectives. And so the diversity of our
workforce plays a huge role.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Yeah, which is interesting too because you have one for
the first time, you have what five generations in the
workforce right now, So that imagine that has its challenges.
From the technology side, it's.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
It's huge, it's huge. And so we're firm that we think,
you know, very strong about that. We're intentional about that,
ver strategic about that, and so we have years ago
we set what we call about fifty to fifty goal
where we wanted fifty percent of our company to be
women and fifty percent to become you know, minorities within
within the firm. And we're just about there. We have
a year to get there, another year to get there.
(05:12):
We're just about there. We're just unheard of in this space.
But it's part of why we've been successful. And I
say the last thing that differentiates us is how we
think about a really a holistic ecosystem, again through this
lens of unrepresentative minority entrepreneurship as well. We have an
incubator called Hutch and we're growing new companies and help
them to get into this space and how they build
(05:34):
and scale their businesses, and that's great for them and
great for their communities and great for their workforce. But
they've also become like great partners to us. And so
we've got now a pipeline of partners that are growing
their businesses and pulling us into deals, and we're pulling
them into deals, and so this ecosystem play is also
something that makes us quite different.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah, that's really cool, and it seems that in the
Baltimore region. You know, we recently spoke with Corey Bailey
at UPSURG Baltimore about that ecosystem and Baltimore's ecosystem, and
I imagine you're a big part of that because that's
part of the fabric of who you are and what
your company is. What what are your thoughts around Baltimore
as that kind of equedect, uh, you know, ecosystem, what
(06:16):
we're Yeah, just like to kind of hear your thoughts
around all that.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah, we're and we're certainly part of part of the ecosystem, right,
So the upside to go to the world and the
gbc's the gun ports, right, So we we're plugged into
all those things. And I think it's amazing. It's really
really great Baltimore. We've always had plenty of assets, right.
We heard our governor and their team so often talked about,
you know, the we're asset rich and strategy for right
and we have and it seems like the strategy is
(06:42):
really starting to come to come together and connect and
connect a lot of these a lot of these dots.
So I think it's an it's an it's amazing. We
need the top down, we need the bottom up, we
need we know, all the pieces in the middle to
connect and we're fearless is really starting to position ourselves.
You know, even though we're connected and plugged in to
many of those initiatives that have in tech cubs included,
(07:03):
we've never kind of just planned the flag and said, Okay,
we're guys, got to own this lane. Right, We're really
good here, let's plant the flag. And we're starting to
do that around gop Con. Yes, it's the support to
start because it't in general, but there's players that do that.
But gopcom we got a track record. We've been at
it for a while. We're one of the largest in
the space, the largest minority business in this space, the
largest software developer in this space, and so with all that,
(07:25):
we kind of said, let's plant the flag and just
go really deep into that lane and really become the
thing that we provide to the ecosystem as a whole.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Yeah, that's great. I appreciate you sharing that. I guess,
you know, you could say that's kind of what you
guys are known for. And also you do some MOREK
in the commercial space as well. Correct, Right, that's good.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
So how does you know a lot of people are
talking about artificial intelligence these days, even though it's been
around for decades, but like it's just become really a
part of the discussion in the past couple of years,
especially coming off of the pandemic and you know, things
like that. So how you know, how does AI and
(08:07):
machine learning kind of fit into your business model and
and how are you kind of helping you know, customers
kind of migrate and integrate that new technology.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Yeah, And it's and it's interesting, you know, everyone is
talking about AI. Everyone thinks they need AI and you
ask them why and they say, well, we're not sure,
we just we need some right, So it.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Kind of what does that mean?
Speaker 1 (08:30):
You know, they kind of don't want to get left behind,
but whatever, you're right, we're living in an AI enabled world. Uh,
And we'll really work with our customers to really figure
out how you integrate that. Uh. And it requires changes
to how people think and how they work, right. And
and so when we think about AI, it's helping them
to navigate implement you know, AI responsibly and effectively, right,
to really make sure that we can drive value and
(08:52):
drop change from them.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
And give a couple of couple of things that we're using. One,
so when we think about this digital divide, right, we
used AI to to help for vent from exascerbating like
systematic problems that exist within their workforce in general, right,
that that hinder economic growth. Right. And so if you
if you were to look at a workforce that is
you know, technology workforce and who's been out, who's doing
(09:14):
a really good job, and where they come from, and
you feed it all the Silicon Valley companies and it
might tell you, oh, you got to go to Stanford.
People that go to Stanford do really well. Well that's
what the data said, right, and so that's what you
said it. And so it's going to pop out. If
you go to Stanford, you'll be successful, right, Yeah. And
and and and really so it's it's thinking about that
bias within the technology and how do you ensure that
(09:35):
it is balanced. And you've got those perspectives, it's something
that we're really we're really advising them on how to
do that, how to do that effectively, and we think about,
you know that from a national security perspective, it's how
to be sure. That's because because it's huge, right, I
mean you you you kind of make some wrong assumptions.
We we we really limit our ability to be effective, right,
(09:56):
and and and and becomes a national security issue. And
so there's things there that we're we're able to kind
of talk to them and work them with around uh,
not just fairness, but transparency really providing sure there's equal
opportunity for not just the consumers but also people that
are leveraging technology internally.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Yeah, that's great, that's cool. Thank you. I appreciate appreciate
you sharing that. It was kind of curious too from
your perspective. You know, has has the economy or inflation
has that had an impact on your business over the
past year?
Speaker 1 (10:26):
You know what it has? It's interesting, right, well, see
we think about you know, inflation in general, right, so
you know, everyone sends to tighten their belt, right, and
in many cases, the federal government spends more money try
to try to try to stimulate the economy. And so
with us doing federal work, it really depends on on
the particular agency. Right, there's some that will increase spending
and then in other places are tightening a belt right
and trying to figure out how they're balancing. But any
(10:48):
time that folks are pulling back, it means they're thinking
about ways to get their job done the more effective,
in a more efficient manner, and and all of that
becomes a recipe for automation technology.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Yeah, we've seen it.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
We've seen it. Actually, you know, great conditions for us
to be able to grow in those markets. Right, So
we're thinking about how do we save budget, But we
still have this mandate, we still have these priorities from
the White House, and we have to get done. And
they provide like amazing opportunities for us to think about
just different ways to do business. Right. We're spending a
lot on infrastructure, right, can we think about how we
save costs by movements to the cloud. We've got a
(11:23):
lot of datable process can we do this a little smart.
We've got four people doing you know, this particular process, right,
can we automate that so those four people can focus
on other things and allow the mission dollars to go
a lot faster, So we actually see a bit of
growth even through inflation from that perspectives as folks are
tightening their belt.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yeah, that's great, And you just mentioned something there that
reminded me of something when you talk about leveraging your
team better through you know, AI and I think a
lot of people have the misnome or that, you know,
whether it's through robotics or or you know, our PA
or something like that, where it's going to take jobs away,
but not necessar necessarily and in most cases it's not
(12:02):
threatening jobs. It's actually taking the mundane tasks you know,
away from some people and letting them focus on more
you know, instrumental, more things that are probably you know,
a better fit for them, are more interesting, right, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
I mean even with the rise of I remember in school,
like when when I first started school, that we had
encyclopedias at the house and get to order them and
we looked in information or assume we then went to
the library to pick up pick up data and everyone said,
when you know, the Googles and the searcherges of the
world came out like, oh my god, no one's gonna
be able to learn, Like everyone's gonna be cheating and
grabbing stuff and we'll all be out of jobs. And
(12:39):
and yes, things shifted, but we did different things right.
Instead of you know, walking in the library to get
you know, to get the next encyclopedia, right, we were
able to search it and we focus on other things.
And that will be different, right, it will affect the
job landscape, but we will then pick up different skills
that we should be focused on. And let's technology do
what it does really well.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Yeah, yeah, that's cool. Yeah, it's that true. I was
talking to someone, for instance, around like chat, GPT and
some of the gen AI stuff where you know, it's
it's some of these uh, you know, folks coming out
of school. They might not have to be an expert
in X, but they need to know how to go
find that information and use AI and and uh jen
(13:19):
a I to find the answers and stuff, which is
a kind of a really weird way of like thinking
about like how you're going to get the answers. But
I mean, but again the future workforce, it might be
just the young folks coming out just they need to
understand how to use jen Ai to get their jobs done.
Like it's really it's wild.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
And this idea of like finding the answer is not new,
right right, So whether you're you're googling around and looking
at stack overflow other forums to find answers or asking
you know, co workers for hey, I'm stuck on this
technical problem. What do you know? Like, it's just a
different way to tackle the problem. So it's a different
process that may be new to some, but some are
growing up in that world, right, So that's.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
It's like second nature, right exactly. Yeah, that's cool, thank you.
I appreciate that. So so last spring, the Oakview Group,
you know, the of course of the developers of Baltimore's
new CFG Bank arena I'm not that new anymore, announced
Fearless as a fighting partner. Through through that partnership, you
guys have created the Fearless Impact Fund. Could you talk
(14:18):
about that?
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Yeah? Absolutely, When we when we met with them initially
and they said, hey, you want to think about doing
you know, naming right steel in and at that point
was the Eastside Club and then let's we should make
this the Fearless Club and said all right, well great,
well why would we do that? Right, And they started
kind of going down the list of oh, we're all
the impressions, here's going to happen, the business a grill
and all that stuff. We said, maybe, we no doubt.
(14:41):
You got to have a really really strong business plan.
We think it will be successful. But for us, what
was really important was this idea of impact. And as
we kept talking through that, we asked him Sid, well,
what's your impact model? Fields is involved? There has to
be some community play plug in here, and they said,
we got to be awesome. We we we've had a
year to flip this arena around, which is a really
fast project they had. They had to get out of
(15:03):
the door, so we're gonna get there. It's just we're
out there yet. And so they said, well, if you
got a vision, like come bitch or something. So so
we did. We came and we pitched them a vision
on what we thought kind of impact looked like. And
it was really around using what the venue was already
meant for. The venue was a place of convening, right, yeah,
it convens people. People are there they're happy, they're excited
and convening and interacting with each other and interacting with
(15:24):
artists and et cetera. It's a great experience, but how
do we use that in a space to convene folks
across all sorts of lines of difference? Right, So we
think about as a way to get back, like, can
we then support minority businesses in this space and connecting
with the larger businesses or maybe it's you know, workforce
development and a lot of what downtown and a lot
of you know what. What the BDC had been working
(15:46):
on with the Baltimore Together and et cetera was around
this idea of how do you create like more inclusive
environments in general to create more bus of economic development.
So for us, it was a no brainer, Right, let's
just follow kind of the plans that are already in place,
and let's a couple that we think we can be
successful at.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
So for us, it was workforce.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Development and minority business growth, right, and we're going to
have always have a tech lane around that. And so
with that we launched and we became their official social
impact partner. We're the first, our understanding still maybe the
only social mediat party out of all of their hundreds
arenas across the world and really pushing this idea of
how do we get and expose people and provide opportunities
(16:26):
for them, not just with the arena and their other venues,
but also the businesses promote growth.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
That's awesome. I love that. That's a great story. I
appreciate you sharing that with us. That's cool. Yeah, And
speaking of I mean, you guys have a reputation for
you know, all of your philanthropic tropic efforts. What's your
philosophy behind that?
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Yeah, it's interesting, so so so. Philanthropy is an important
part of what we do. But but but often when
people think about us, it's it's really about doing good,
and we don't we don't just segment that off to
film tropic dollars. Right. It is a part of our
DNA and it's a part of who we are as
an organization.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Right.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
So when we pick a project, we're thinking about that
project through the lens of like is this making our
government better? Or is this improving or protecting human life?
Or is this creating opportunity and equity for other people? Right?
And so we picked projects that do that, and so
again to do good is baked into our everyday work
and how we do business as an organization. Now, on
(17:24):
top of that, we also have phone Troppic dollars that
go out to the community and support those exact same initiatives. Right,
Some may go through our nonprofit, you know, some may
go through the corporation itself, but but ultimately it's it's
part of kind of who we are, and we think
it's part of being what what a for profit companies
should look like. It's not this corporate social responsibility, it's
(17:46):
this is we think this is the DNA of what
the new age company should be, where you had community
companies that were integrated as a part of community and
the community was better as a result of them being there, Right,
And so it is our responsibility to do what we
can and to uplift our community as a whole. We
believe that we take that pretty seriously.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Yeah, and that, uh, you know obviously impacts your ability
to attract talent. A lot of young people like really
want to be involved in an organization that cares about
their community and how they can get involved with that
and all that stuff. So that's that's great, that's smart.
So tell us a little bit about like your your
personal background, how did you how did you get here?
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Yeah, so personal background, I'm a son of I'm some immigrant.
Both my parents immigranted from Ghana. My mom is they
retired nursing. My dad had a software company growing up,
so that meant we, my brothers, I'm the youngest of three,
we all learned how to program as kids. And what's
what's interesting, so kind of learned that from them. They
(18:43):
divorced and split when I was pretty young. My mom
primarily raised us, and her big thing was empathy. You
got to get back. We are here on this earth
to help all the people and support your fellow man.
So we spent more time than I care to admit
in you know, nursing homes and two kitchens and hospitals,
and we absolutely hated his kiss.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Right.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
We want to you know, you kinda want to go
outside and play, right, And we got to go go
go volunteer, like, oh my god. Right, So you know,
But what's what's kind of fascinating is now I look
at where we are today and where I am today,
and it's it's almost like a blend of both those influences.
Where I've got a company Now that's you know, building
(19:26):
tech for good, right, and so it kind of combines
both of those. But that's when mar jury started. We
didn't have a ton growing up, and so you know,
we you know, we wanted the same thing our friends had,
right they got the new video game or they had
the new clothes or whatever. You know. My mom said, well,
you got to go work for it. And that meant
knocking on a lot of doors as a kid, right
(19:48):
from you know, walking dogs, paper routes, I mean, every
little business you can think about, cutting grass, walking cars,
breaking leaves. I mean we did. We did all of
that stuff and and and and and knew that eventually
someone at some door we built earned ten bucks. Right,
And that's kind of where this entrepreneurial bug I think
started to form, and I really think it cultivated in
(20:11):
undergrad I went to the UNBC University of Maryland, Baltimore County,
and uh, they had started out studing computer engineering and
they started an entrepreneurship program when I was there. And
I love the idea of just like learning more about
this space. I had the hustle as a kid. I
knew how to knock on doors. Yeah, and I had
no clue how to create a business plan and what
that even meant and many of the fundamentals, and and
(20:31):
so started taking taking those courses, and I knew by
the time I was over, I was starting a company
that started a series of startups in undergrad that that failed,
and I learned a lot through all of them, and
you know, you kind of fast forward a few years, uh,
Fearless was born. And so for me, my my my
trajectory has largely been through technology impacts, trying to do
(20:54):
good and trying to figure out how to connect those
dots and and blend all of those recipes together in
a way that was going to build something sustainable in
which we're doing.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Now, that's cool. I appreciate you sharing your story. Yeah,
that's that's pretty awesome. All right, switch gears a little bit.
I always like talking about leadership on the show. How
would you how would you describe your leadership style?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yeah, So my leadership style, I'm I'm pretty laid back.
It's just so those that don't know me, and they
may come in and and some said this person was
nervous to talk to them, like next, well about what
what are you talking about? This is me, right, And
so I'm pretty laid back, but I love I love
being a visionary, Like I love I tell people my superpower,
(21:37):
Uh is I can see the future. What do you mean?
I'm like, I can see the future. I mean that's
I think that's the job of visionary. It is your
job to see things that other people can't see and
be able to like paint that picture in that path,
how are you going to get there? So I think
that's a That's a big part of how I see
my role as a leader. I always also see myself
as as a servant leader. I'm not one for well,
(22:00):
that's not my job, that's not my job description. I'm
the CEO. So therefore I can't pick up the trash
like I'm the first one picking up stuff, cleaning things
up after meeting, folding the chairs, putting them away like that.
That stuff doesn't phaze me. It is my job to
serve the people that work at Fearless, to make sure
they have what they need to be successful at the
end of the day, period, right, and not the other
way around. I am here for them, they are not
(22:22):
here for me, because ultimately, like our customer needs to
be successful. So I like that I like, and I
like a point of environment. I like, I like an
environment where we're not digging ourselves too. So we work hard,
but we're gonna laugh, we're gonna have a good time,
we're gonna we're gonna celebrate. And so creating a culture
where people feel like they can be themselves is really, really,
really important to me. It's it's it's an area where
(22:43):
I didn't feel like I always had throughout my career.
And so people knowing that they can be in a
place and not be judged about what they're wearing, how
they look, how they want their hair to be, if
they have tattoos or piercings or whatever. Who cares. Right,
we're knowledge workers, and so the job is to bring
a brain and remove any barrier that prevents you from
(23:06):
being your best right and bring your best brain to
this place. So that's that's super important.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
I love it. I can spend the next hour talking
about all you mentioned a bunch of points there that
I wish I could talk to you for the next
hour about, but I do one thing I do want
to ask you as a follow up. So you mentioned
the visionary thing, which is intriguing to me because I
see and I work with or know a lot of
CEOs that work too much in the business and not
(23:35):
on the business. So when when when was that time
you wanted to be a visionary? When was that time
in your kind of company's life cycle that you decided
like because at first, yeah, you're working in the business,
you got it, You're going out there bringing in deals,
You're like working with the team, you're When when did
you kind of realize the step out of that and
be the more visionary person as opposed to just getting
(23:57):
the staining in there and keep you know, kind of
working on the day to day.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
I don't think it's a moment in time. I think
it happens throughout. It's a continuum, right, And it happened
at different different iterations. So for for example, I think
of where we are today, we're calling it fill us
three dot oh, right, which is a third iteration of
the third kind of invention of the company, right, and
and so one that being like the startup years, but
there had to be like a solid vision that that
(24:24):
that was that was able to communicate to bring people
into one dot where we're going, Why we're different, Why
this is important? How why it is I think that
we're going to be successful, and you need that right,
You need that right. And so once once you kind
of get that first group in, you're starting to work
on the startup things and getting off the ground, you
can't get so focused on you know, I got to
(24:45):
be here and I'm checking in code now I was
I was developing when we first started, right, right, So,
and how how I was able to work The separation
was I needed to be buildable, I needed to be
forty hours a week, but I knew I needed time
to spend on the business. And so what the deal
I struggled. My contract was four ten hour day and
every Friday was my day to work on the business.
And so it was time that was dedicated, Like you
(25:06):
gotta dream, you gotta think, you gotta figure out what's
next and how to continue to grow. And so there's
moments and then I say each each time, you go
to a next iteration, right, So from fearless one dot
oh to two dot zho. And so we're past startup,
startup phase. Now we're trying to get our first executive team.
You need a new vision, right, and so that may
be around my strategic planning and what's the next three
years look like, what's the next five years look like?
(25:27):
And that takes like intense work right to kind of
punk it up. And my model really is is I
may have a fuzzy direction and I start talking to
people about it almost immediately, like this is what I'm thinking,
here's where we need to go. And they will have
a million questions and I'm gonna have half a million answers,
but I'm not going to know how to answer half
of them, right, And I don't know. I gotta go
find out, and I take another iteration, I come back,
(25:49):
and then there's less questions and then before you know
it keeps getting refined and then you're coaching. But you
still need that, like they are you know, ten twenty
percent of your time to keep thinking about the future.
And then we're not at three dot oho three. Yeah
know I had to, I'd like, I'd like to spend
months like thinking about like what is next? Where are
we going? How do we articulate that? And so we're
in that phase now, right, So every iteration, every like
(26:10):
step function you need like intense intense work. But through those,
as you're working, you still need some time, right to
be able to think about what's what's what's the future
look like? Put there, But they're not as deep as
the step functions.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Yeah. Yeah, So many companies want to scale, but they
they they don't know how, but they don't. It seems
to me that a lot a lot of the folks
don't take the time too like, all right, I need
a day every week to think about this for the
next like yes, months, like what does this look like?
What's the impact is going to be? Do staff? Like yeah,
And it's I imagine, Hey, it's got to start there.
(26:41):
You have to just set aside time to dedicate.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
To do it, and and it's hard, and it's hard,
and I lost some of that during the pandemic. I
mean pandemic was a really really hard time for me.
Where you know, we're we're largely almost one hundred percent
in off of this kind of kind of space, and
just the energy in the vibe in that space it was,
I mean it was electrifying, right, and I need I
I get fed off of that kind of energy. And
so dandemic hits. You can listen, you can hear like
(27:05):
a pin drop and I'm depressed. I'm depressed. You that
like it took a while to kind of get out
of this funk. It felt like my life's work had
just disappeared overnight, right, right, And for a while, I
felt like I started getting a rut. Right, I know
how to go talk to a customer and pitch a
deal and win a deal and hire the team and
execute right, and as you grow, the deal size gets bigger.
(27:28):
But it was it felt like I was living the
same day over and over again and really like interrupt.
And it wasn't until I took the second of pause
and say, Okay, you got to like get back to
like what's next, right, where are we going? And that's
when three that I was really started to get birthed.
I started getting excited again. I started getting excited the
again about where we're going. But it's super important because
when the visionary stopped seeing the future or believing.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
It, the whole company is in trouble.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Right, So it's important to like focus and spend the
time and make the cycles in order to stay excited
about what's coming, because if you don't leave it, you
will not be able to communicate this with conviction in
a way where people are going to be excited and
willing to follow.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Yeah, and that's not going to happen ultimately. Yeah, that's cool.
I love that. Thanks. I appreciate feedback on that. All right, So, Delala,
what what excites you about the future Fearless.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Yeah, I'm super excited about three out on where we're
going and we're calling it our goals around twenty thirty.
And we've got three goals we called our one hundred
ten one plan, and that means by twenty thirty, we
will improve one hundred million lives, be in ten countries
and a billion dollars in revenue. Thanks. So that is exciting.
(28:39):
That is exciting, and people ask, well, how are you
going to get there? A year ago? I was gonna
I have no clue. We gotta go figure it out now.
But we got the goal, right, you.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Got to get that day a week man, Like, Yeah,
I figure that stuff out right.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
That's right. But we brought on like a remarkable team
that's helping to break down that vision over the next
six years and what it looks like for the next
two years and one year plan and all of those things,
and it's been really awesome, and it's been a hard
don't wrong, it's been a hard transition, really really really hard.
We're going from a small business to a big business
and at every iteration again going going into field studio,
(29:12):
we have to rebuild everything. It's a new company. We
have to rebuild the company and how we do business
and how we go to market and what our new
value prop is going to be for the future. Our
competitors have all changed to big businesses now and so
all of that stuff is exciting because it's the creativity part, right.
But I can see the vision now and I see
a path in how we get there, and so that
(29:33):
is super exciting and extremely warning to think about how
we're getting there.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Very exciting, all right. So what was on the other hand,
what keeps up at night?
Speaker 1 (29:41):
What keeps you up about at night? Are we going
to move? Are we moving fast enough? Right? Uh? There's
always the timing and the market right and can we
can we get all the things to happen at the
exact right time. So that's that's tough. That's tough, Like
are we are we doing enough? I think I think
for me often what I think about is am I
(30:03):
growing fast enough? As a leader? Right there?
Speaker 2 (30:06):
There?
Speaker 1 (30:06):
There's always I mean, John Maxillfuffle is constant of a leadership,
leadership lead right where you can't go further than your listening.
I got to increase my lead. I've increase my capacity,
and so my ability to learn and to grow and
to really understand what's required of this next level and
next stage of me is going to be super important.
And so I've got to always think about am I
am I doing enough? Am I learning enough? Am I
(30:27):
growing enough? Am I leaning in enough? And that's that's
a lot of what I think about.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Gotcha cool? Awesome? Well, Well, to kind of wrap things up,
is there is there anything else you'd like our listeners
to know about you and fearless?
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Yeah, I'd say, I'd say the big thing that I
want them to know is is really our commitment to
again impact right and really changing the world. This is
not a play just to grow and let's make a
bunch of money and go sit on the beach somewhere.
We want to absolutely change the world. And we have
a perspective of how you lean in and how you
lose your superpower. It's really my found belief that everyone
(31:01):
on this planet has some super sort of superpower, and
it is your responsibility to use that superpower for good,
to make the world a little bit better, right, And
at Fearless our superpower technology, and so we're going to
use that gift to try to make the world better.
And we think everyone needs to do that, and so
we're we're we're super excited about that, and we're challenging
everyone else in the market individuals to do the same thing,
(31:23):
like use your superpower and be really bullish and bold
about what you're going to do to make the world better.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Excellent, And how can we get more information about Fearless?
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Absolutely you can get us up at fearless dot tech
on our website and engage with us there and we're
all over social media.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Is Fearless be more awesome? Well, Delai, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Man.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
I really enjoyed our conversation. It was a great catch
up with you. It was a lot of fun. So
I really appreciate you taking the time to do it
all right, Thanks.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
E brom enjoyed the call. Has been iHeartMedia CEOs. You
should know
iHeartMedia Presents CEOs you should know. Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm John Dinkle, founder and CEO of Dinkle Business Development
and former president and publisher of the Baltimore Business Journal.
This is iHeartRadio CEOs you should know and I'm here
today with de Lali Jirasa, founder and CEO of Fearless.
Welcome to lay and thank you for being here.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
All right, thanks so much, Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Appreciate you taking the time to talk. Looking forward to
catching up with you. So I thought we'd start off
by just getting to know you and the organization a
little bit more so for those who may not be familiar,
could you tell us about Fearless?
Speaker 1 (00:33):
So absolutely so Fearless we are. We're an impact from
right and really our mission is to build towards the
better tomorrow and really believe in this idea of impacting profits.
We work largely through governments, create technical solutions as well
as you know, conditions for people and organizations to thrive. Right, So,
anywhere where someone is helping to move their organization forward
(00:54):
to drive some other outcome, they needs some sort of technology,
we're a partner for them.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
And where are you doing business? I'm sure probably all
over the country, right we are.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
We are so some of the largest agencies in federal government,
including UH centers for Medicare and Medicaid, the General Services
Administration powering much of the national archives for the federal government,
running search platforms like search back gov, the Small Business Administration,
and and just to name a few.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Got it great? And you know you kind of describe
yourself as a digital services integrate or as opposed to
maybe a digital services firm. Could you talk about that
a little bit, and you know, is there anything that
and maybe you can talk about some of the things
that differentiate you from you know, similar firms. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Absolutely. When you think traditionally about a digital services firm, right,
they really rose in the last couple of administrations around
you have these large government systems that often would you know,
work on for years and they end up failing. And
so there's this idea of like wait a minute, we'll
companies and you know, Silicon Valley, you guys can build
web apps, you guys can build technology. It doesn't fail
(02:04):
every other day, and so there's really this rise of
digital surface fums, right that that talked about. We really
understand human centered design and talking to users and how
you build systems that are intuitive that don't have you know,
these really complex user manuals around them, and the tech
can scale up and down with the cloud easily. And
so there were principles, fundamental principles you know, using agile,
human centered design, iterative development, et cetera. Right that really
(02:28):
you know, gave rise to this kind of community of
of firms in this space. And then you kind of
have another camp. And this other camp is you know,
systems integrators, and you say, you think about these really
really large government contractors that we all have heard of
and and know, and they can really do things at scale,
but the ability oftentimes to do again some of this
(02:50):
more modern application development, modern modern way of how we
do business, uh, just isn't there. And so we really
think that there is a space to create something that's
the best of both worlds, because those camps largely dislike
each other. And so there is a world where you
can being kind of the best practices of building and
(03:11):
modernizing technology, but how you do it at scale, which
the digital services firms don't today, And that's kind of
where we sit. You think about the things that might
differentiate fearless overall to really both parts of that camp,
and I'll say that there are a few. Number one,
it's how we do the business right. It's not just
the technology, it's also the organizational development parts of the transformation.
(03:36):
You can build tech, and you can deploy technology, but
often we find when technology fails, it isn't the tech,
it's anything that's side of the tech, right. No one thought.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
About that, meaning like the process behind it exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
No one thought about adoption. No one thought about training
or change management, or you didn't change how you did
your bisiness right, all of those types of things, and
so we actually bring both to bear when we think
about transformation.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
That's one that's cool.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
A second thing that we think about is really this
inclusive workforce that we have that really looks like and
represents America. You know what's interesting about public sector is,
you know, when you build a system in the public sector,
it kind of has to work for everybody, right, and
so someone's you know eighteen versus someone's you know, great grandmother,
(04:28):
they all got to be able to use it, right,
because it's taxpayer money and it has to just work.
And so to be able to do that, you need
to be able to build the systems with people that
represent all those perspectives. And so the diversity of our
workforce plays a huge role.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Yeah, which is interesting too because you have one for
the first time, you have what five generations in the
workforce right now, So that imagine that has its challenges.
From the technology side, it's.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
It's huge, it's huge. And so we're firm that we think,
you know, very strong about that. We're intentional about that,
ver strategic about that, and so we have years ago
we set what we call about fifty to fifty goal
where we wanted fifty percent of our company to be
women and fifty percent to become you know, minorities within
within the firm. And we're just about there. We have
a year to get there, another year to get there.
(05:12):
We're just about there. We're just unheard of in this space.
But it's part of why we've been successful. And I
say the last thing that differentiates us is how we
think about a really a holistic ecosystem, again through this
lens of unrepresentative minority entrepreneurship as well. We have an
incubator called Hutch and we're growing new companies and help
them to get into this space and how they build
(05:34):
and scale their businesses, and that's great for them and
great for their communities and great for their workforce. But
they've also become like great partners to us. And so
we've got now a pipeline of partners that are growing
their businesses and pulling us into deals, and we're pulling
them into deals, and so this ecosystem play is also
something that makes us quite different.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah, that's really cool, and it seems that in the
Baltimore region. You know, we recently spoke with Corey Bailey
at UPSURG Baltimore about that ecosystem and Baltimore's ecosystem, and
I imagine you're a big part of that because that's
part of the fabric of who you are and what
your company is. What what are your thoughts around Baltimore
as that kind of equedect, uh, you know, ecosystem, what
(06:16):
we're Yeah, just like to kind of hear your thoughts
around all that.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah, we're and we're certainly part of part of the ecosystem, right,
So the upside to go to the world and the
gbc's the gun ports, right, So we we're plugged into
all those things. And I think it's amazing. It's really
really great Baltimore. We've always had plenty of assets, right.
We heard our governor and their team so often talked about,
you know, the we're asset rich and strategy for right
and we have and it seems like the strategy is
(06:42):
really starting to come to come together and connect and
connect a lot of these a lot of these dots.
So I think it's an it's an it's amazing. We
need the top down, we need the bottom up, we
need we know, all the pieces in the middle to
connect and we're fearless is really starting to position ourselves.
You know, even though we're connected and plugged in to
many of those initiatives that have in tech cubs included,
(07:03):
we've never kind of just planned the flag and said, Okay,
we're guys, got to own this lane. Right, We're really
good here, let's plant the flag. And we're starting to
do that around gop Con. Yes, it's the support to
start because it't in general, but there's players that do that.
But gopcom we got a track record. We've been at
it for a while. We're one of the largest in
the space, the largest minority business in this space, the
largest software developer in this space, and so with all that,
(07:25):
we kind of said, let's plant the flag and just
go really deep into that lane and really become the
thing that we provide to the ecosystem as a whole.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Yeah, that's great. I appreciate you sharing that. I guess,
you know, you could say that's kind of what you
guys are known for. And also you do some MOREK
in the commercial space as well. Correct, Right, that's good.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
So how does you know a lot of people are
talking about artificial intelligence these days, even though it's been
around for decades, but like it's just become really a
part of the discussion in the past couple of years,
especially coming off of the pandemic and you know, things
like that. So how you know, how does AI and
(08:07):
machine learning kind of fit into your business model and
and how are you kind of helping you know, customers
kind of migrate and integrate that new technology.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Yeah, And it's and it's interesting, you know, everyone is
talking about AI. Everyone thinks they need AI and you
ask them why and they say, well, we're not sure,
we just we need some right, So it.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Kind of what does that mean?
Speaker 1 (08:30):
You know, they kind of don't want to get left behind,
but whatever, you're right, we're living in an AI enabled world. Uh,
And we'll really work with our customers to really figure
out how you integrate that. Uh. And it requires changes
to how people think and how they work, right. And
and so when we think about AI, it's helping them
to navigate implement you know, AI responsibly and effectively, right,
to really make sure that we can drive value and
(08:52):
drop change from them.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
And give a couple of couple of things that we're using. One,
so when we think about this digital divide, right, we
used AI to to help for vent from exascerbating like
systematic problems that exist within their workforce in general, right,
that that hinder economic growth. Right. And so if you
if you were to look at a workforce that is
you know, technology workforce and who's been out, who's doing
(09:14):
a really good job, and where they come from, and
you feed it all the Silicon Valley companies and it
might tell you, oh, you got to go to Stanford.
People that go to Stanford do really well. Well that's
what the data said, right, and so that's what you
said it. And so it's going to pop out. If
you go to Stanford, you'll be successful, right, Yeah. And
and and and really so it's it's thinking about that
bias within the technology and how do you ensure that
(09:35):
it is balanced. And you've got those perspectives, it's something
that we're really we're really advising them on how to
do that, how to do that effectively, and we think about,
you know that from a national security perspective, it's how
to be sure. That's because because it's huge, right, I
mean you you you kind of make some wrong assumptions.
We we we really limit our ability to be effective, right,
(09:56):
and and and and becomes a national security issue. And
so there's things there that we're we're able to kind
of talk to them and work them with around uh,
not just fairness, but transparency really providing sure there's equal
opportunity for not just the consumers but also people that
are leveraging technology internally.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Yeah, that's great, that's cool. Thank you. I appreciate appreciate
you sharing that. It was kind of curious too from
your perspective. You know, has has the economy or inflation
has that had an impact on your business over the
past year?
Speaker 1 (10:26):
You know what it has? It's interesting, right, well, see
we think about you know, inflation in general, right, so
you know, everyone sends to tighten their belt, right, and
in many cases, the federal government spends more money try
to try to try to stimulate the economy. And so
with us doing federal work, it really depends on on
the particular agency. Right, there's some that will increase spending
and then in other places are tightening a belt right
and trying to figure out how they're balancing. But any
(10:48):
time that folks are pulling back, it means they're thinking
about ways to get their job done the more effective,
in a more efficient manner, and and all of that
becomes a recipe for automation technology.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Yeah, we've seen it.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
We've seen it. Actually, you know, great conditions for us
to be able to grow in those markets. Right, So
we're thinking about how do we save budget, But we
still have this mandate, we still have these priorities from
the White House, and we have to get done. And
they provide like amazing opportunities for us to think about
just different ways to do business. Right. We're spending a
lot on infrastructure, right, can we think about how we
save costs by movements to the cloud. We've got a
(11:23):
lot of datable process can we do this a little smart.
We've got four people doing you know, this particular process, right,
can we automate that so those four people can focus
on other things and allow the mission dollars to go
a lot faster, So we actually see a bit of
growth even through inflation from that perspectives as folks are
tightening their belt.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yeah, that's great, And you just mentioned something there that
reminded me of something when you talk about leveraging your
team better through you know, AI and I think a
lot of people have the misnome or that, you know,
whether it's through robotics or or you know, our PA
or something like that, where it's going to take jobs away,
but not necessar necessarily and in most cases it's not
(12:02):
threatening jobs. It's actually taking the mundane tasks you know,
away from some people and letting them focus on more
you know, instrumental, more things that are probably you know,
a better fit for them, are more interesting, right, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
I mean even with the rise of I remember in school,
like when when I first started school, that we had
encyclopedias at the house and get to order them and
we looked in information or assume we then went to
the library to pick up pick up data and everyone said,
when you know, the Googles and the searcherges of the
world came out like, oh my god, no one's gonna
be able to learn, Like everyone's gonna be cheating and
grabbing stuff and we'll all be out of jobs. And
(12:39):
and yes, things shifted, but we did different things right.
Instead of you know, walking in the library to get
you know, to get the next encyclopedia, right, we were
able to search it and we focus on other things.
And that will be different, right, it will affect the
job landscape, but we will then pick up different skills
that we should be focused on. And let's technology do
what it does really well.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Yeah, yeah, that's cool. Yeah, it's that true. I was
talking to someone, for instance, around like chat, GPT and
some of the gen AI stuff where you know, it's
it's some of these uh, you know, folks coming out
of school. They might not have to be an expert
in X, but they need to know how to go
find that information and use AI and and uh jen
(13:19):
a I to find the answers and stuff, which is
a kind of a really weird way of like thinking
about like how you're going to get the answers. But
I mean, but again the future workforce, it might be
just the young folks coming out just they need to
understand how to use jen Ai to get their jobs done.
Like it's really it's wild.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
And this idea of like finding the answer is not new,
right right, So whether you're you're googling around and looking
at stack overflow other forums to find answers or asking
you know, co workers for hey, I'm stuck on this
technical problem. What do you know? Like, it's just a
different way to tackle the problem. So it's a different
process that may be new to some, but some are
growing up in that world, right, So that's.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
It's like second nature, right exactly. Yeah, that's cool, thank you.
I appreciate that. So so last spring, the Oakview Group,
you know, the of course of the developers of Baltimore's
new CFG Bank arena I'm not that new anymore, announced
Fearless as a fighting partner. Through through that partnership, you
guys have created the Fearless Impact Fund. Could you talk
(14:18):
about that?
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Yeah? Absolutely, When we when we met with them initially
and they said, hey, you want to think about doing
you know, naming right steel in and at that point
was the Eastside Club and then let's we should make
this the Fearless Club and said all right, well great,
well why would we do that? Right, And they started
kind of going down the list of oh, we're all
the impressions, here's going to happen, the business a grill
and all that stuff. We said, maybe, we no doubt.
(14:41):
You got to have a really really strong business plan.
We think it will be successful. But for us, what
was really important was this idea of impact. And as
we kept talking through that, we asked him Sid, well,
what's your impact model? Fields is involved? There has to
be some community play plug in here, and they said,
we got to be awesome. We we we've had a
year to flip this arena around, which is a really
fast project they had. They had to get out of
(15:03):
the door, so we're gonna get there. It's just we're
out there yet. And so they said, well, if you
got a vision, like come bitch or something. So so
we did. We came and we pitched them a vision
on what we thought kind of impact looked like. And
it was really around using what the venue was already
meant for. The venue was a place of convening, right, yeah,
it convens people. People are there they're happy, they're excited
and convening and interacting with each other and interacting with
(15:24):
artists and et cetera. It's a great experience, but how
do we use that in a space to convene folks
across all sorts of lines of difference? Right, So we
think about as a way to get back, like, can
we then support minority businesses in this space and connecting
with the larger businesses or maybe it's you know, workforce
development and a lot of what downtown and a lot
of you know what. What the BDC had been working
(15:46):
on with the Baltimore Together and et cetera was around
this idea of how do you create like more inclusive
environments in general to create more bus of economic development.
So for us, it was a no brainer, Right, let's
just follow kind of the plans that are already in place,
and let's a couple that we think we can be
successful at.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
So for us, it was workforce.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Development and minority business growth, right, and we're going to
have always have a tech lane around that. And so
with that we launched and we became their official social
impact partner. We're the first, our understanding still maybe the
only social mediat party out of all of their hundreds
arenas across the world and really pushing this idea of
how do we get and expose people and provide opportunities
(16:26):
for them, not just with the arena and their other venues,
but also the businesses promote growth.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
That's awesome. I love that. That's a great story. I
appreciate you sharing that with us. That's cool. Yeah, And
speaking of I mean, you guys have a reputation for
you know, all of your philanthropic tropic efforts. What's your
philosophy behind that?
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Yeah, it's interesting, so so so. Philanthropy is an important
part of what we do. But but but often when
people think about us, it's it's really about doing good,
and we don't we don't just segment that off to
film tropic dollars. Right. It is a part of our
DNA and it's a part of who we are as
an organization.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Right.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
So when we pick a project, we're thinking about that
project through the lens of like is this making our
government better? Or is this improving or protecting human life?
Or is this creating opportunity and equity for other people? Right?
And so we picked projects that do that, and so
again to do good is baked into our everyday work
and how we do business as an organization. Now, on
(17:24):
top of that, we also have phone Troppic dollars that
go out to the community and support those exact same initiatives. Right,
Some may go through our nonprofit, you know, some may
go through the corporation itself, but but ultimately it's it's
part of kind of who we are, and we think
it's part of being what what a for profit companies
should look like. It's not this corporate social responsibility, it's
(17:46):
this is we think this is the DNA of what
the new age company should be, where you had community
companies that were integrated as a part of community and
the community was better as a result of them being there, Right,
And so it is our responsibility to do what we
can and to uplift our community as a whole. We
believe that we take that pretty seriously.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Yeah, and that, uh, you know obviously impacts your ability
to attract talent. A lot of young people like really
want to be involved in an organization that cares about
their community and how they can get involved with that
and all that stuff. So that's that's great, that's smart.
So tell us a little bit about like your your
personal background, how did you how did you get here?
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Yeah, so personal background, I'm a son of I'm some immigrant.
Both my parents immigranted from Ghana. My mom is they
retired nursing. My dad had a software company growing up,
so that meant we, my brothers, I'm the youngest of three,
we all learned how to program as kids. And what's
what's interesting, so kind of learned that from them. They
(18:43):
divorced and split when I was pretty young. My mom
primarily raised us, and her big thing was empathy. You
got to get back. We are here on this earth
to help all the people and support your fellow man.
So we spent more time than I care to admit
in you know, nursing homes and two kitchens and hospitals,
and we absolutely hated his kiss.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Right.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
We want to you know, you kinda want to go
outside and play, right, And we got to go go
go volunteer, like, oh my god. Right, So you know,
But what's what's kind of fascinating is now I look
at where we are today and where I am today,
and it's it's almost like a blend of both those influences.
Where I've got a company Now that's you know, building
(19:26):
tech for good, right, and so it kind of combines
both of those. But that's when mar jury started. We
didn't have a ton growing up, and so you know,
we you know, we wanted the same thing our friends had,
right they got the new video game or they had
the new clothes or whatever. You know. My mom said, well,
you got to go work for it. And that meant
knocking on a lot of doors as a kid, right
(19:48):
from you know, walking dogs, paper routes, I mean, every
little business you can think about, cutting grass, walking cars,
breaking leaves. I mean we did. We did all of
that stuff and and and and and knew that eventually
someone at some door we built earned ten bucks. Right,
And that's kind of where this entrepreneurial bug I think
started to form, and I really think it cultivated in
(20:11):
undergrad I went to the UNBC University of Maryland, Baltimore County,
and uh, they had started out studing computer engineering and
they started an entrepreneurship program when I was there. And
I love the idea of just like learning more about
this space. I had the hustle as a kid. I
knew how to knock on doors. Yeah, and I had
no clue how to create a business plan and what
that even meant and many of the fundamentals, and and
(20:31):
so started taking taking those courses, and I knew by
the time I was over, I was starting a company
that started a series of startups in undergrad that that failed,
and I learned a lot through all of them, and
you know, you kind of fast forward a few years, uh,
Fearless was born. And so for me, my my my
trajectory has largely been through technology impacts, trying to do
(20:54):
good and trying to figure out how to connect those
dots and and blend all of those recipes together in
a way that was going to build something sustainable in
which we're doing.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Now, that's cool. I appreciate you sharing your story. Yeah,
that's that's pretty awesome. All right, switch gears a little bit.
I always like talking about leadership on the show. How
would you how would you describe your leadership style?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yeah, So my leadership style, I'm I'm pretty laid back.
It's just so those that don't know me, and they
may come in and and some said this person was
nervous to talk to them, like next, well about what
what are you talking about? This is me, right, And
so I'm pretty laid back, but I love I love
being a visionary, Like I love I tell people my superpower,
(21:37):
Uh is I can see the future. What do you mean?
I'm like, I can see the future. I mean that's
I think that's the job of visionary. It is your
job to see things that other people can't see and
be able to like paint that picture in that path,
how are you going to get there? So I think
that's a That's a big part of how I see
my role as a leader. I always also see myself
as as a servant leader. I'm not one for well,
(22:00):
that's not my job, that's not my job description. I'm
the CEO. So therefore I can't pick up the trash
like I'm the first one picking up stuff, cleaning things
up after meeting, folding the chairs, putting them away like that.
That stuff doesn't phaze me. It is my job to
serve the people that work at Fearless, to make sure
they have what they need to be successful at the
end of the day, period, right, and not the other
way around. I am here for them, they are not
(22:22):
here for me, because ultimately, like our customer needs to
be successful. So I like that I like, and I
like a point of environment. I like, I like an
environment where we're not digging ourselves too. So we work hard,
but we're gonna laugh, we're gonna have a good time,
we're gonna we're gonna celebrate. And so creating a culture
where people feel like they can be themselves is really, really,
really important to me. It's it's it's an area where
(22:43):
I didn't feel like I always had throughout my career.
And so people knowing that they can be in a
place and not be judged about what they're wearing, how
they look, how they want their hair to be, if
they have tattoos or piercings or whatever. Who cares. Right,
we're knowledge workers, and so the job is to bring
a brain and remove any barrier that prevents you from
(23:06):
being your best right and bring your best brain to
this place. So that's that's super important.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
I love it. I can spend the next hour talking
about all you mentioned a bunch of points there that
I wish I could talk to you for the next
hour about, but I do one thing I do want
to ask you as a follow up. So you mentioned
the visionary thing, which is intriguing to me because I
see and I work with or know a lot of
CEOs that work too much in the business and not
(23:35):
on the business. So when when when was that time
you wanted to be a visionary? When was that time
in your kind of company's life cycle that you decided
like because at first, yeah, you're working in the business,
you got it, You're going out there bringing in deals,
You're like working with the team, you're When when did
you kind of realize the step out of that and
be the more visionary person as opposed to just getting
(23:57):
the staining in there and keep you know, kind of
working on the day to day.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
I don't think it's a moment in time. I think
it happens throughout. It's a continuum, right, And it happened
at different different iterations. So for for example, I think
of where we are today, we're calling it fill us
three dot oh, right, which is a third iteration of
the third kind of invention of the company, right, and
and so one that being like the startup years, but
there had to be like a solid vision that that
(24:24):
that was that was able to communicate to bring people
into one dot where we're going, Why we're different, Why
this is important? How why it is I think that
we're going to be successful, and you need that right,
You need that right. And so once once you kind
of get that first group in, you're starting to work
on the startup things and getting off the ground, you
can't get so focused on you know, I got to
(24:45):
be here and I'm checking in code now I was
I was developing when we first started, right, right, So,
and how how I was able to work The separation
was I needed to be buildable, I needed to be
forty hours a week, but I knew I needed time
to spend on the business. And so what the deal
I struggled. My contract was four ten hour day and
every Friday was my day to work on the business.
And so it was time that was dedicated, Like you
(25:06):
gotta dream, you gotta think, you gotta figure out what's
next and how to continue to grow. And so there's
moments and then I say each each time, you go
to a next iteration, right, So from fearless one dot
oh to two dot zho. And so we're past startup,
startup phase. Now we're trying to get our first executive team.
You need a new vision, right, and so that may
be around my strategic planning and what's the next three
years look like, what's the next five years look like?
(25:27):
And that takes like intense work right to kind of
punk it up. And my model really is is I
may have a fuzzy direction and I start talking to
people about it almost immediately, like this is what I'm thinking,
here's where we need to go. And they will have
a million questions and I'm gonna have half a million answers,
but I'm not going to know how to answer half
of them, right, And I don't know. I gotta go
find out, and I take another iteration, I come back,
(25:49):
and then there's less questions and then before you know
it keeps getting refined and then you're coaching. But you
still need that, like they are you know, ten twenty
percent of your time to keep thinking about the future.
And then we're not at three dot oho three. Yeah
know I had to, I'd like, I'd like to spend
months like thinking about like what is next? Where are
we going? How do we articulate that? And so we're
in that phase now, right, So every iteration, every like
(26:10):
step function you need like intense intense work. But through those,
as you're working, you still need some time, right to
be able to think about what's what's what's the future
look like? Put there, But they're not as deep as
the step functions.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Yeah. Yeah, So many companies want to scale, but they
they they don't know how, but they don't. It seems
to me that a lot a lot of the folks
don't take the time too like, all right, I need
a day every week to think about this for the
next like yes, months, like what does this look like?
What's the impact is going to be? Do staff? Like yeah,
And it's I imagine, Hey, it's got to start there.
(26:41):
You have to just set aside time to dedicate.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
To do it, and and it's hard, and it's hard,
and I lost some of that during the pandemic. I
mean pandemic was a really really hard time for me.
Where you know, we're we're largely almost one hundred percent
in off of this kind of kind of space, and
just the energy in the vibe in that space it was,
I mean it was electrifying, right, and I need I
I get fed off of that kind of energy. And
so dandemic hits. You can listen, you can hear like
(27:05):
a pin drop and I'm depressed. I'm depressed. You that
like it took a while to kind of get out
of this funk. It felt like my life's work had
just disappeared overnight, right, right, And for a while, I
felt like I started getting a rut. Right, I know
how to go talk to a customer and pitch a
deal and win a deal and hire the team and
execute right, and as you grow, the deal size gets bigger.
(27:28):
But it was it felt like I was living the
same day over and over again and really like interrupt.
And it wasn't until I took the second of pause
and say, Okay, you got to like get back to
like what's next, right, where are we going? And that's
when three that I was really started to get birthed.
I started getting excited again. I started getting excited the
again about where we're going. But it's super important because
when the visionary stopped seeing the future or believing.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
It, the whole company is in trouble.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Right, So it's important to like focus and spend the
time and make the cycles in order to stay excited
about what's coming, because if you don't leave it, you
will not be able to communicate this with conviction in
a way where people are going to be excited and
willing to follow.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Yeah, and that's not going to happen ultimately. Yeah, that's cool.
I love that. Thanks. I appreciate feedback on that. All right, So, Delala,
what what excites you about the future Fearless.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Yeah, I'm super excited about three out on where we're
going and we're calling it our goals around twenty thirty.
And we've got three goals we called our one hundred
ten one plan, and that means by twenty thirty, we
will improve one hundred million lives, be in ten countries
and a billion dollars in revenue. Thanks. So that is exciting.
(28:39):
That is exciting, and people ask, well, how are you
going to get there? A year ago? I was gonna
I have no clue. We gotta go figure it out now.
But we got the goal, right, you.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Got to get that day a week man, Like, Yeah,
I figure that stuff out right.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
That's right. But we brought on like a remarkable team
that's helping to break down that vision over the next
six years and what it looks like for the next
two years and one year plan and all of those things,
and it's been really awesome, and it's been a hard
don't wrong, it's been a hard transition, really really really hard.
We're going from a small business to a big business
and at every iteration again going going into field studio,
(29:12):
we have to rebuild everything. It's a new company. We
have to rebuild the company and how we do business
and how we go to market and what our new
value prop is going to be for the future. Our
competitors have all changed to big businesses now and so
all of that stuff is exciting because it's the creativity part, right.
But I can see the vision now and I see
a path in how we get there, and so that
(29:33):
is super exciting and extremely warning to think about how
we're getting there.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Very exciting, all right. So what was on the other hand,
what keeps up at night?
Speaker 1 (29:41):
What keeps you up about at night? Are we going
to move? Are we moving fast enough? Right? Uh? There's
always the timing and the market right and can we
can we get all the things to happen at the
exact right time. So that's that's tough. That's tough, Like
are we are we doing enough? I think I think
for me often what I think about is am I
(30:03):
growing fast enough? As a leader? Right there?
Speaker 2 (30:06):
There?
Speaker 1 (30:06):
There's always I mean, John Maxillfuffle is constant of a leadership,
leadership lead right where you can't go further than your listening.
I got to increase my lead. I've increase my capacity,
and so my ability to learn and to grow and
to really understand what's required of this next level and
next stage of me is going to be super important.
And so I've got to always think about am I
am I doing enough? Am I learning enough? Am I
(30:27):
growing enough? Am I leaning in enough? And that's that's
a lot of what I think about.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Gotcha cool? Awesome? Well, Well, to kind of wrap things up,
is there is there anything else you'd like our listeners
to know about you and fearless?
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Yeah, I'd say, I'd say the big thing that I
want them to know is is really our commitment to
again impact right and really changing the world. This is
not a play just to grow and let's make a
bunch of money and go sit on the beach somewhere.
We want to absolutely change the world. And we have
a perspective of how you lean in and how you
lose your superpower. It's really my found belief that everyone
(31:01):
on this planet has some super sort of superpower, and
it is your responsibility to use that superpower for good,
to make the world a little bit better, right, And
at Fearless our superpower technology, and so we're going to
use that gift to try to make the world better.
And we think everyone needs to do that, and so
we're we're we're super excited about that, and we're challenging
everyone else in the market individuals to do the same thing,
(31:23):
like use your superpower and be really bullish and bold
about what you're going to do to make the world better.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Excellent, And how can we get more information about Fearless?
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Absolutely you can get us up at fearless dot tech
on our website and engage with us there and we're
all over social media.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Is Fearless be more awesome? Well, Delai, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Man.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
I really enjoyed our conversation. It was a great catch
up with you. It was a lot of fun. So
I really appreciate you taking the time to do it
all right, Thanks.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
E brom enjoyed the call. Has been iHeartMedia CEOs. You
should know
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