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July 31, 2024 10 mins
His resume is remarkable ... Admiral U.S. Navy, Navy SEAL, served two Presidents, and now, author of a book called "The Gouge." Admiral Bob Harward visited with Preston while traveling through Ukraine to Poland. The connect was amazingly good, the conversation was better.
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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 2 (00:00):
Good person. How are you today?

Speaker 1 (00:01):
I'm terrific. I First let me get this said up front.
Thank you for your service to our country, sir. It's
an honor to speak with you.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Oh my friend, thank you, But it's almost embarrassing. It
was the greatest honor and privilege and the greatest adventure known.
So I loved every day of it. So I appreciate
people saying that, but they don't understand it. It was
like women the lottery. So I'm just grateful for all
the support and the people who pay taxes still and

(00:31):
not enabled me to say, but I say that it's
an important point. I'd like to say, Well, all the
Navy and Army is having a hard time meeting recruiting goals.
I just find that unbelievable because it is such a
great adventure and for any young person to have the
opportunity to serve, they're missing by take it.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
But thank you the Gouge. I'm fascinated to know the
backstory first and foremost behind the title. How does a
book get called the gouge?

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Great Christen. The gouge is a very infamous military term,
predominantly in the Navy, but it's permeated to other stuff.
It's a famous term that originated World War two. So
the book describes the history of the term, where it
came from, how it supplied with stories and illustrations, and

(01:27):
why it is so important. So the term itself indicates
what if you ask, maybe guys are if you even
google it, they'll attribute it to the inside information, the
scoop what you really need to know. And that's true.
But it came up at War two when we went
to war and we were building hundreds of ships. We

(01:50):
needed demand all those ships, and experienced mariners and experienced
navy people were few and far between. So on these
ships when we threw all these guys. And my father
was one of those guys, a kid from Brooklyn and
who went to the Merchant and Marina Academy so they
could afford to go to school and graduated in summer

(02:13):
forty three. So he was flown on the ship with
all these other people. And what they did was they
trained and educated each other. They passed that experience proactively
to everyone because they were going into war. They were
sporting the landing of flat pan, they were being shot
at torpedoes, Tomakazi's and so they knew the ship could

(02:34):
be hit at any time, and who knew who would survive,
so you could end up having that junior seaman running
the ship. So they were very active and focused on
making sure he knew everything that he needed to stay
alive and run the ship. And they came up with
the term called the gouge, and then that permeated throughout

(02:57):
the Navy for decades on end. Hey, here's what you
really need to know. Here's good gouge, or here's thumb gouge.
But more importantly, and what the book is really trying
to illustrate is not just the term or that inside information,
but really that culture they inculcated during World War II
on those ships. How do you proactively educate, invest in

(03:22):
each other to make sure you can accomplish the mission
or build the business and grow individually. So it played
across both the professional and personal objectives of each other.
So if you're on a team, you're in a business,
you're in any organization, you always struggle with this balance

(03:43):
of growing the business, winning the football team, but at
the same time growing your people, making sure they're goes
succeed personally just as you all do professionally. So that's
what the gouge and the book is all about pressing.

Speaker 1 (03:59):
Do you remember the first first time the gouge imposed
itself on you as a military professional without a doubt.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
Now, my father, because he was a naval officer, he
growing up as a kid, Okay, here's the gouge and
he called me dumas, which was short to them at
you know, as a young kid, you know, okay, Dumas,
here's what you need to know. But we're really and
so in my family, my father kind of inculcate. But
when I listed in the Navy, I grew up in Iran.

(04:32):
I never had a job. When I graduated from high school,
my curer counselor said, hey, you need to think about
what you're gonna do. Let's go to college. So I
applied to colleges and I was accepted at Colorada Estate.
So I was gonna go be a ski bump because
I loved ski in Iran and has some of the
best skiing in the world. And I went to show
my father that I'd been accepted. He said, that's wonderful.

(04:54):
I'm so proud of you. And he let that sink
for Rowan and they said, uh, how you can pay
for that. And I thought, well, I never had a
job going up and iron, you couldn't work because hell, dad,
don't you pay for these Oh no, no, no, you're seventeen.
Now you're on your own. But they have these wonderful
things called Joe's. I go, what's the job? You know,

(05:15):
someone asked you to do something and you do it
and they give you money for it. Oh my job?
You Oh well, we don't use that work. So he
kind of said, what but look, if you're listing the Navy,
I could you could go to this Naval Academy prep school.
And it's seem like, now you go to school, you'll
do your sports, but they're gonna pay you. So I

(05:35):
ended up on that course. Well, I show up at
the Naval Academy Prep school in Newport, Rhode Island, and
you know, when you first the lists and shave the head,
they're putting all your uniform. Here's how you make a pet,
here's how you march. Here's all this information's coming at
you real quick. And one of the seniors from the
Naval Academy who's running our training, pulled us all into

(05:57):
the room and he said, okay, people, Well here's the gouge.
And when he said that word, I thought, Oh, my goodness,
this guy I believe in. He's gonna tell us something
important here, and he did. He said, here's the gouge.
You need to know. You're gonna do this, loving, You're
gonna do all this, but what you got to focus

(06:17):
on is grades. If you get the good grade, you'll
be able to go to the naval capty. So instantaneously
when he used that word the gouge to me a
few things, I said, Ooh, this is important. He's gonna
tell us stuff we need to do. But number two,
it built trust and confidence in him. He took enough

(06:37):
time to synthesize all this stuff that was coming up
and here's what you really need to know. So I
had instantaneous trust and confidence in him and the institution
because they were focused on me and me developing and
succeeded personally. So that was my real first ex experience

(07:00):
of the gouge in uniform, and then it's played off
my career for over four decades. So yes, but that
was it just reinforced the principles and their culture and
that trust and confidence and individuals and leaders when they
used a gouge.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
Admiral Bob Harward with me. The gouge is the name
of the book, How to Be Smarter than the situation
you are in. When did you decide or what was
it that inspired the idea that you could take these
principles and then apply them after you left the military,
and that they would be transferable to a civilian life,

(07:39):
to the business.

Speaker 2 (07:41):
World, great quested, and it was you know, I just said,
lived it, used it all my life, and it was
a different journey. It was a different purpose. And I
saw leaders in the defense industry who had no concept
of this, and so that's what reinforced it. But more

(08:04):
important to me and learn of the reasons I really
did this book and stuff that just still concerns me today.
You know, since nine to eleven, we lost over six
thousand men and women in combat over the fifteen years,
and each of them was tragic, but more tragic than that.

(08:25):
At the same period, we dealt with one hundred and
twenty five thousand suicides of active and retired and individuals
of service. And this is why I think the gouge
is so important. I still don't understand how any of
those happened. I think sometimes transition from a close knit

(08:46):
family and the different environment is a challenge. I think
sometimes they lose their purpose. But the purpose of the gouge,
I hope will contribute to driving down those numbers that
we invest in our people, not just professionally but personally.
So these transitions, these challenges in life, they can look

(09:09):
through this a different lens and they have hope and
belief in their futures. And then as individuals to prevent this.
I believe cultures, the culture of the gouge and sharing
that proactive leadership to develop our individuals is a critical
component of preventing these suicides. So that was a big

(09:30):
rational and reason why I want to do this.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
Admiral, I promised i'd get you out on time for
your next visit. I appreciate you making time for us
today and safe travels in the Ukraine. And again, thank
you for serving our country, sir. It's been an honor.

Speaker 2 (09:44):
Thank you very much, really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (09:46):
Thank you, sir, The Admiral Bob Harward. And the book
is The Gouge How to be Smarter than the situation
you are in. It's a really good read, little edgy
in play, but the guy's resume deserves the respect that
we show, and the book is definitely worth picking up.

(10:08):
The Gouge and my guest, Admiral Bob Harward, Yes, he
was speaking to us from Ukraine traveling to Poland. Go
figure here. On the Morning Show with Preston Scott
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