December 15, 2020 • 32 mins
In this episode, Sammy Jaye chats with former Division 1 volleyball player and mental health, body image advocate Victoria Garrick. They talk about the stigmas around mental health with athletes, her non-profit “The Hidden Opponent” and Kobe Bryant’s book “Geese are Never Swans” (Granity Studios). Also, be sure to check the latest Granity title “Epoca: The River of Sand” that released today!
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey guys, and welcome to this week's episode of Let's
Be Real Podcast. As always, my name is Sammy J.
And this week's episode is with mental health advocate, activists,
and former D one athlete Victoria Garrett. When Victoria was
in college, she actually gave a TED talk called The
Hidden Opponent, which really talks about the mental health challenges
athletes face, and she turned it into a nonprofit called
(00:25):
The Hidden Opponent, talking about this in raising awareness. That
organization is now featured in Kobe Bryant and Eva Clark's
book Geese Are Never Swans. So we talked about the book.
We talk about her nonprofit, what it's like being a
student athlete, and how you can make an impact. I
hope you enjoy Victoria, Bye, how are you? I am good.
(00:48):
I am so excited to you have you on my
podcast for so many reasons, not only because we have
a lot to talk about, but also both of our
podcasts have the word real on a real pod Let's
Be Real. I think it's fitting. I know I noticed that,
and I was just like, I love this realness, being authentic,
no filters, that is all my favorite stuff. So glad
(01:08):
to meet one of the same exactly. It's so important,
especially with what's going on now in the world. Um. So,
like I said, we have a lot to talk about. First,
I read the book Either Never Swans, and oh, my goodness,
why hasn't there been a book out like this before. Yes,
it's such an amazing book. Um. That just really depicts
mental health issues so beautifully, and especially in athletes, which
(01:33):
is a storyline we don't often get. And I literally
read the entire novel in one night. That's depressive and
that's not even a joke. I had to read it
early because of the promo, so obviously I was like,
I gotta read this thing quick, but that I could
not put it down. It was so good. And that
also made me so happy because I am so passionate
about the story and people reading it. So I just
(01:56):
feel really once again real in the fact that I'm
promoting the book because I love it and I want
everyone to get their hands on it. So for those
who don't know, Uh, Kobe Bryant and Ava Clark created
the idea for this book, and they and Ava Clark
wrote it. Um, And I think this story is just
like I said, it's so not talked about and congratulations.
(02:19):
Your nonprofit is listed as a resource and I want
to talk more about that in a second, but first
I just want to talk about for those who haven't
read the book, can you give the synopsis? Yes. So
the synopsis of the book is as follows. It centers
around a young character, Gus. He is a swimmer, and
(02:40):
Gus is when we first opened the book, is dealing
with the grief of losing his older brother to suicide.
And his older brother was also a competitive swimmer, and
the older brother got very very very close to making
the Olympic Games and did not qualify at the Olympic trials,
and that devastation everything he dedicated his whole childhood to
(03:03):
qualify for the Olympic Games and then not make it
um was unbearable for that older brother, and he ends
up taking his own life. And so now Gus, the
younger brother, is navigating the loss of Danny, his broken
family life, and going to experience those same pressures, thoughts,
(03:24):
and stresses that his older brother experienced. Because Gus is
also a swimmer who also wants to go to the Olympics,
so we kind of see the same storyline manifest itself
and Gus but the difference is how can he navigate
these challenges better than his brother? When I read the book,
one of the main things that I took away from
it is that being a student, let alone a student athlete,
(03:45):
you try and plan everything accordingly, but you know, life
throws you curveballs, and it's not what the curveballs are,
but it's how you react them is what shapes you
as a person. So I'm curious, as a former do
one volleyball player at USC what kind of curveballs were
thrown your way? Well, it's interesting because I felt like, Um,
some of the curveballs I faced as a college athlete were.
(04:08):
One of the biggest ones was just my myself, the
own my own self talk, the things I said to
myself every day. In that kind of environment, my confidence
was shaken for sure. Um that question of am I
good enough to be here? Did I prepare enough? Do
I know enough? What do they think of me? Um?
The level is just so high that for me I
developed that sort of imposter syndrome. And I definitely feel
(04:31):
like towards While I definitely struggled with my mental health
throughout college, my senior year I felt like I had
kind of mastered my own mind and how to handle
it in those situations. But then I graduated and I've
been pursuing my own career, and I found that I
still struggle with those thoughts of my own self worth
(04:51):
or with anxiety. But now the narrative is slightly different,
and so I'm having to re understand the new curveballs, um,
and apply what I used to practice to this new dialogue,
if that makes sense. So I think every curveball we're
thrown in life, whether what comes next is similar or not,
we're developing and creating mechanisms to handle that sort of thing.
(05:16):
And so it only makes you start for sure. I
mean also, like you're going to say, like we're a
lot of the times our worst enemy, you know. It's
how I think. Also social media plays are roll into that,
which we can talk about later. Um. But another aspect
of this book that I love is the relationship that
gus Uh creates with his coach. It's that, you know,
(05:36):
camaraderie that I think is so special, and it's not
really talked about how that can help to have someone
like that who understands the pressurey that you're under. Did
you ever have that type of experience. I feel like
it's very special to have a coach who has that
sort of impact on you, in that relationship with you.
And I definitely experienced that sort of coaching in high
(06:00):
school from my club coach. However, UM, you know it
is it is something that when you continue in a
sport and you experience different coaches, and I had two
different college coaches. And on top of that, UM, if
you're great, if you're fortunate enough, depending on your division,
you might have three to four extra coaches on a staff.
(06:22):
So fortunately, I think with good people, there's always an
opportunity to form a connection. UM. But for me, I
would say, looking back on my sports career, you know,
being honest, being real, I don't have that one coach,
UM that I feel like changed my life. UM. I
did feel like I found that in teammates and role models,
(06:45):
but it is something that as an athlete, you know,
you hope you do come across. Do you think if
you had that that would have helped the pressures that
you kind of put unto yourself with under the such
high stakes. I definitely do. I think that when you
feel like your coach fully believes in you and wants
(07:05):
to see you shine and cares about you as a person.
Some of that you are going to mitigate some of
that stress and pressure because you're not worrying about what
your coach thinks about you, and there's not anymore. There's
not much uncertainty because their relationship is clear, and so
I definitely think that that would have been a help. However,
I learned one of my biggest lessons and not having that,
(07:26):
which is not letting people outside myself give me validation.
The more I seek, uh the approval of a teammate
or the approval of a coach or the non important
then then the less secure I can be in just
my own thoughts and knowing who I am. So while
I yes, that would have been nice to have, I
don't regret the incredible lesson it taught me of being
(07:48):
the person who creates my own storyline. So when you
found out that you were going to be a player
at USC, which is their volleyball team, in credible What
was your experience like in the work and for those
who don't understand how much goes into being a student athlete,
can you describe what your days were like? Yes, So,
(08:10):
I was so excited this was everything I had wanted,
especially playing volleyball my entire childhood, and so to get
this opportunity was huge. And getting there, I think you
like to imagine, you know, what it would be like
to be a student athlete, especially at USC. You think, oh,
I know, I can work really hard, I promise, like
(08:32):
all I want to do is play volleyball. You know,
you think these things, and then you get there and
they lay out your schedule and you realize that Monday
through Friday, from one o'clock to six o'clock, you can't
do anything but show up to the gym and just
do what they say. So from one to six Monday
through Friday, I would have practice, film a lift. Most
of the time in that block, you're you're working out
(08:54):
for about three four hours. Depending on the day, you
could have a three hour practice, US an hour and
a half lift. Um, the numbers could vary. My body
is just tired just hearing this, litterally doing it. And
then yes, and then you fit in your class before
one or after six. Not to mention the other things
that we do as college students, having a family life,
(09:17):
of social life, wanting to just get lunch with a friend, um,
and then you have games twice a week, and that
includes traveling out of the state depending on your club
friends and keeping up with the academic schedule. About everyone
else at the school is as well. When did you
have time to eat? That is the thing you have
(09:37):
to carve in, is like you have to make sure
you're eating and you have to like plug it into
your calendar. And that goes along with just even time
to do nothing. I feel like if I am waking
up and doing things and I'm super robotic, um, I
just feel like I'm not relaxed or I haven't had
a moment to distress. So it's also carving in like
(09:57):
thirty minutes to do nothing, which you barely can't even
get And honestly, at the time, my thirty minutes of
doing nothing was just sitting stressing about the things I
should be doing or um, you know, feeling overwhelmed and
kind of letting up because you know, and you just
do so many things that you don't focus on what's
really happening. And then you slow down, You're like, so
it becomes weird to like take a breath, Yes, you
(10:21):
realize what you've been kind of running from with this
busy schedule, so it was a lot. Um it is
a lot for current student athletes, and um, you know
that just comes with the territory. So I'm curious because
I'm always thinking about like different solutions to things. If
you could rewrite the curriculum for a student athlete, what
(10:41):
do you think you could do that would make it
more manageable. It's tough because they do try to make
sure all the schools are doing the same things and
have the same opportunities to practice and et cetera, and
they're very strict rules about that stuff. However, for UM,
I feel like the most obvious thing to me that
(11:05):
can be adjusted is just providing equal and accessible mental
health support for all student athletes. Uh, That to me
would have helped me manage everything much sooner. Is to
have that person to talk to. And fortunately at USC
I did have that. It took me a while to
go seek that help, but there are many many schools
and players who don't have an opportunity to seek that
(11:28):
help for their mental health. So it's incredibly important. And
that's another reason why the book Use Are Never Swands
so important is because it details this side of the
game that is equal to all the physical things we
do to compete. We had to take a quick break,
but when we come back, I want to talk about
mental health and athletes and something social media. We'll be
(11:49):
right back, and we're back my Season one finale. Kevin
Love with our guest and saw that that is my
dream interview congrat agulation. That was crazy. He's incredible and
we One of the things that we talked about that
I want to bring up with you is that there's
such a stigma for athletes going to therapy. It's fascinating
(12:11):
to me that it's okay to go to a sports psychologist,
it's okay to work out and get in great shape physically,
but yeah, there's such a stigma to go to therapy.
I always say that you're supposed to work out your body,
but you're also supposed to work out your mind, Like
that's what therapy is. I agree with that wholeheartedly. The
stigma from society is definitely a huge factor in the
(12:32):
reason why we don't prioritize mental health as much. It's
just this idea that because you can't see the injury
because it was invisible, because someone just has to say
it's there, makes it less believable, and we obviously know
as a society we don't like to believe things unless
we can see them. So, um, you know, I found
that the stigma of oh, you should just be able
(12:55):
to figure this out or cheer up, or you've got
this or brush it off, so not that simple, not
so simple exactly, especially these terms that we have coined
in sports culture, like brush it off, shake it up, um,
figure it out, just be clutched. All those things make
you think it is something you can just fix yourself.
But when we look deeper and we die below the
(13:16):
surface and we talked to those professionals and people who
really know what's happening inside our minds, they can tell
you it's not just a quick fix. It's the same
sort of injury as an a C L tear. You
need to go to rehab, you need to get surgery,
you need to um take time off. And if your brain,
if you're depressed, Um, the neurochemicals in your brain are
(13:36):
not the way they once were. You're not producing enough
serotonin from people. Forget, there's a science behind it. It's
not just like there's a chemical imbalance in your brain.
A lot at the time that's not just in your
head exactly. And I think we beat ourselves up for
not being able to think ourselves out of it. And
I struggle with that for a long time. I just said,
you've got to think yourself out of this. You know,
(13:58):
this just means you can't handle. No one else is
this way. And I discredited how severe the issue actually
was until it was really bad. Yeah, well, I heard
you say that you never really experienced anxiety before this. No,
my high school experience, I'm fortunate to say, was pleasant. Um,
(14:18):
I know a lot of people don't have that. I
wish I could say the same. Oh no, I'm sorry.
It wasn't rough. The first two years were the hardest
for me. Last year was a lot better, and this
year I'm a senior. So we're trending in the right direction.
But it's all about putting your mental health first, right, right.
And I also think we're at different times, um, with
social media, and even though we are close in age,
(14:41):
you are going through high school at a time where
we have a TikTok or we have Instagram the way
it is. I did not get Snapchat till my sophomore
year of high school. So even though I have been
very tech savvy, and I'm a younger generation. It was
not as prevalent as it was, so who knows how
many mental health would have been if I was dealing
with the same social media scrutiny and involvement that you
(15:03):
have to deal with. UM. But so for those reasons,
and also for having a pretty blessed, privileged family, UM,
I did not experience too many mental health issues. But
then when I got to college, I just felt like
that schedule we mentioned, the pressure we talked about all
just came out of nowhere and I was not able
(15:24):
to handle it. You mentioned this in your TED talk,
and I was so curious about this. You said that
if you're one minute late, you had to wake up
at six am and run. Why did they do that?
That is as clear as it sounds. If you are
one minute late, we are all running at six am
the next morning. That was a team role. Sixty seconds yep,
(15:46):
that was a team role. And it was just you
can't be late. There's absolutely no excuses. UM, we show
up on time or we show up early. And that
was one of the main things that developed to my
my anxiety a real quick and it wasn't understandably. It
wasn't just if you were lately ran at six am.
It was if you break any single rule on our
(16:08):
team rules, we will do six am running. So wearing
the wrong color shirt, forgetting your socks, like just common
human errors, punishing you for being human. But it's tough
because you know, I still look back and I'm torn between.
I personally think at this time in my life, I
(16:29):
could handle that penalty, I could handle those rules, and
as an eighteen year old who was dealing with so
many changes and adjustments in college as a freshman, I
just wasn't equipped to handle that stress and pressure. Because
I look back and I'm like, Okay, we were number
one in the country. We were undefeated. You know, there's
a reason why we were that good. And I'm guessing
(16:49):
rules and the team dynamic and that strictness played a
part in our performance. However, you know, I just wasn't
wise enough. I hadn't done enough work, I wasn't experienced
enough to know how to handle that pressure. And like,
if I had that rule now and I made the
team run, I feel like by accident, I feel like
I would just be like, you know what, sorry, guys,
(17:10):
I'm human. I forgot my mis shure, like I'll see
you guys six am. Whatever. That's life where a team
we do things like this, whereas freshman year was everyone's
gonna hate me. I'm a freshman, I'm a walk on.
I'm gonna make the steamyors run like it was just this.
There was so much more tied to it than just
a punch with the hierarchy of that too, like seniors.
(17:30):
And you couldn't be late to six am running. If
you are late to six am running, we had to
show up the next day. And that happened once someone
missed six am running because they overslept, and so we
had to come back the next day at six am.
Did you have time for a social scene with your schedule?
I did my best to try to keep up some
(17:50):
sort of social life. One of my my best friend
from high school, also went to USC and she was
not an athlete, so she was able to, you know,
bring me along to things and introduced me to her friends.
And I was grateful to have that because I didn't
have the time to go meet people at all. So
for her to just say, join us for dinner and
let me introduce you to all the friends I've made
(18:11):
was a really nice thing to have. However, something I
really struggled with was not having a social life or
friend group outside my team. And my senior year UM
in the spring was the first semester I was just
a student because volleyball is in the fall, and now
that I didn't have a season, I was training for
you get senior spring, just to be a student. And
(18:33):
that time in my life, I really was like, Wow,
I've been here for four years and my only friends
or social relationships were teammates, And it just was really
difficult for me to sit with that as a college senior,
thinking great, now I have all this time, I don't
have practice. I can do everything social I would ever
want to do, but I don't really have people to
(18:55):
do that with. And I really struggled with that. That
makes total sense, and I also think the social media
role that plays into that, where you see people having
fun and partying, then also you're torn between wanting to
go out, but then also you're in a really bad
mental state where you don't want to socialize with anybody.
It's that it's that you're between a rock and hard place. Well,
(19:15):
something I've discovered about myself in quarantine, which I'm so excited,
like this one thing will be the best thing that
I've realized about myself is so I mentioned I struggled
with kind of that lack of a ton of friends,
and I think, especially as females, there's this pressure to
have a girl group as a girl's night out, and
so you don't have that group of five or six
or that group chat, you think like something's wrong with me.
(19:38):
And before Quarantine, I just remember, like actively, how can
I build relationships? How can I invite someone here? Like
I need more friends? Because there were social things happening, pictures, events,
and I felt like I needed that. But now that
I've been in quarantine and there is no party to
go to, there are no pictures of the groups, there
are no things. I've looked at my life. I've been
(20:00):
realized I don't have an absence. I don't feel an
absence of friends. I have some of my my best
friends in the world, but let's be real that it's
like four or five people and they're not quality over quanity,
though that's what I always say, yes, quality over quantity.
But so I've realized, like these people give me everything
I needed friends, and I don't even have time for
(20:20):
the people that are my friends. They're always like, you're
so busy, can you make time for me? Because of
everything I'm doing. So I just realized, Wow, it was
an illusion that society was convincing me I needed more friends.
You need to go to these things with people in
the pictures, And now that there's no opportunity, I've realized
I don't need that at all. You know, you've talked
about how you would post these photos, but like they
would be so manicured, even though they would just look
(20:42):
quote unquote candid. Yeah. I spent a lot of time
trying to perfect my Instagram, especially in college, and make
sure it looked like I was everything I thought I
was supposed to be, a happy, skinny, pretty popular, um
like just enjoying this lifestyle and being this girl that
(21:04):
I thought, you know, you needed to be, and it
was just so fake and it was such a disconnect
with my heart because I remember just feeling like absolute um,
just feeling really bad about myself for feeling really down
and finding a picture to seek those likes and those
comments and and look at this little feed and think, Okay,
(21:24):
well this looks perfect so you know, maybe my life's
not as bad as I think it is. UM, And
that also wore on me over time, just putting up
a front and putting on a mask that wasn't genuine
to me. And I think if you live yes, and
if you live your life as someone else or something else,
(21:45):
you slowly start to lose touch with who you are.
And I just I had to stop that. Okay, we
have to take one more quick break, but want to
come back. I want to talk more. Thanks social media
and society's beauty standards. We'll be right back, and we're back.
I love so much how just authentic you are on
(22:05):
social media, and I love your TikTok because it is
just like with everything going on the world, and especially
on that app, it is just like, thank you real
it's authentic, which is needed more. I'm really grateful to
hear that. And you've got to get on the app. Girl.
It is where it is at right now. I mean,
I just it's we can talk. We can talk about
(22:27):
it after. But TikTok is just a game changer. And
the people I've been able to connect with, um, the
way I've been able to explore my creativity, you know,
I've found that in the message I want to share.
It's given me so many ways to communicate it. And
you are right, there's a very toxic diet culture on TikTok,
a very a very clear standard of beauty presented on
(22:50):
that app but you're breaking that. I think it is
important and um just I've been having a really great
time on it, and it means a lot to know that,
you know, you're enjoying the TikTok, So thank you. Something
that I've also just realized, there's just this gap in
what societal beauty standards, which is something that I want
to talk to you about because you know, there's so
(23:11):
many trends with it. You know, sometimes it's the like
skinny stick figures what's cool or beautiful, but then it's
the curse. But then it's like a normal body. Why
do you think that's something that's still so prevalent in
society when people are like, just don't look like that.
A lot of people, Well, we've just continued to give
attention to our appearance. First off, that's something that as
(23:36):
society we value. Um and I'm not saying that that's
what I value, but as a whole you just grow up,
especially as a female, being told to look a certain way,
present your look presentable. Um. And then there's all these
like adjectives people to attribute with that which is dainty, poised, feminine. UM.
(23:57):
I know, feminine was a big issue for me because
as an athlete, I didn't feel feminine. I felt sweaty
and bulky and strong, and even strong isn't something we
would associate with a beautiful female. So you have those narratives.
And then also we see the people who have the
(24:18):
power and the followings promoting image and you know, without
naming people, but I'll name people Kardashians. You know, we
see them most of the time very image focused, and
that in turn sends a message to the people who
follow them and consume their content, which is millions and
(24:38):
millions and millions, that that is important and also this
is what you should look like. And we need to
just start shifting the attention and the message, especially for
those younger generations, about what the priority is. And you know,
I don't think that the Kardashians wake up in the
morning and set out to make girls feel bad about themselves.
(24:59):
I They're also normal people like us who probably fallen
victim to the same standards and pressures, but they're under
a spotlight and so whether they like it or not,
they are setting the standard UM and we follow that.
And so it's important to pay attention to where we're
putting that focus, what we're trying to become UM and
(25:21):
then create our own notions around that. I know you've
talked about how you know from all these societal standards,
it made you want to change your body so you
either wouldn't eat or you know, and that's something that
so many people are facing. It's become kind of have
you seen those like TikTok's where it's like they make
light of it or they make it like normal something
(25:42):
they're so harmful because you know best, like when you're
an athlete, especially a student athlete, you have to bulk
up to play the sport. That's just what happens. You
gain muscle, um, you gain strength. How do you think
we can as a society change that to make that
still beautiful because it is It comes with each person
(26:03):
kind of claiming that power back and that authority to
be the person who validates themselves, be the person who
says this is okay and I don't need you to
approve it, and especially for female athletes, you know, we
need to remember that. And I made it to talk
about this yesterday, and it was just saying, you're not
there to look the prettiest. You're there to play the
(26:26):
best and ball out and do what you've been training
to do, not look the cutest in your uniform. But
we've once again in this society had people put such
a focus on our image that even athletes, female athletes me,
I wasn't focusing on how strong, fast, um good at
my sport. I was instead I was thinking about how
(26:47):
I looked too big, how I didn't look good enough, um,
how the muscles I had spent months building and developing
on my body were ugly um, and just ignoring the
fact that that was a mark of hard work. To
get muscle on your legs is hard to do. Yet
in that process I despised that growth. Wow, Unfortunately, it's
(27:10):
so hard to be a girl today, Like, it's so hard, um.
And I honestly love what you've done with your nonprofit.
I love that it's listed as a resource in this book.
So for those who aren't aware of your nonprofit, please
please share it. After struggling with my mental health freshman
(27:30):
and sophomore year, I delivered a TED talk in the
spring of my uh college time I've never time talked
abou summer year, and it was called The Hidden Opponent,
and it basically explained the stigma that athletes face when
it comes to mental health and the mental health issues
in sports that often go UM, not talked about or
(27:52):
not addressed. And after graduating, I continued to speak, and
I traveled at a different college campus is and I spoke.
But I realized that there's so much more than just
me and my one story. There's hundreds thousands of athletes
who experience these SAM struggles. So I wanted to create
a community, a platform where we could amplify the stories
(28:15):
of those student athletes and also create a community together
UM to kind of combat that stigma. And so it's
called The Hitting Opponent after my TED talk, but also
because I think, you know, I just love that that
idea that we're facing a competitor. We have another opponent,
but this one you can't see. And it's really been
special to develop this group. IY have an amazing UM
(28:37):
team of people who who helped Ben Ruvo as a
baseball player in college he's our president, and all of
the team is made up of current and former student athletes,
and we have a Facebook group with hundreds of athletes.
So it's really it's really special, and I'm so grateful
that Kobe supported it and that we can be a
resource in this book and anyone who reads it and
(28:57):
is struggling can come our way. Just starting a nonprofit
for this is so important because, like you've talked about,
it's not talked about. Yeah, it's not at all. So
I know you've been asked would you write a book?
You know, I've seen your answers. You even asked a lot.
But I'm going to change your research. I did, so
what I'm going to change up the question would you
ever make a documentary? I mean, I would love to
(29:23):
participate in that or do that, and I am willing
to share my story in any capacity and hopes that
it helps. But speaking of that, there's an incredible documentary
coming out any day now called The Weight of Gold
with Michael Phelps and all these incredible athletes who talk
about the mental health issues of Olympic athletes. Um so
(29:43):
that sounds that is something very similar to what you
just asked coming out too, and then also just big
not to Kevin Love who you've interviewed, but just for
him to kind of champion this conversation just creates waves,
um for him to complete it's incredible. It's also this
it's this stigma that all of this is a stigma,
(30:05):
and I just don't understand it because if everybody goes
through it, then why is it not talked about? Yeah? No,
I agree for sure, and I think the stigma has
already changed dramatically, which is incredible, just from my freshman
year of school where it was at too now my
first year out of school, looking at where the conversation is, um,
I really feel like it is super prevalent in sports
(30:27):
right now. And that's that's awesome that in just four
years we've seen such great lengths. I agree, And I
also think that you have persevered not only through the
transition but also to get on the team. So for
someone who has been rejected, what advice would you give
them to Kno, give up? I believe that when it
comes to what should I give up or not? And
(30:51):
I almost want to refer to that room as more
like move on, because you know there aren't people that
do have to stop for certain reasons. And you never
want someone to look back and think they couldn't do
it or they wouldn't strong enough, because it's a difficult
decision to stop something. I would just my advice would
be to really look inside yourself, forget the external noise,
(31:12):
what your parents say, what social media said, what you
said in the past, two people, whatever it is you're
dealing with, and think, you know, is my heart in this?
Do I really want to do? I have more to give?
And sometimes that answer is going to be no, and
that's perfectly okay. And other times you might think, yeah,
I got a little fight left in me and you
want to keep going. And for me, I had a
little fight left in me, and I'm glad that I
(31:33):
kept going. Man Like, I think I feel like if
more people were as honest as you have been, just
in general, I think the world would be a much
better place. That is so sweet of you, and you
are super honest too, so I'm glad that you get
to host these conversations with all these incredible people and
bring that realness out of them. Well, thank you very much,
(31:55):
And if you haven't already, please go purchase Ease or
never Swans and don't forget to check out Victoria Garrick
on her social media. It's just Victoria Garrick on all
of them, right, yes, yes, yes, yes. And also go
check out the Hidden Opponent. Yes, come to the Hidden
Opponent Instagram or if you're a student athlete, join our
Facebook group. We definitely want you there. Thank you guys
(32:19):
so much for listening to this week's episode of the
Let's Be Real Podcast. If you have not already, don't
forget to subscribe and leave a comment if you have
any suggestions or just your thoughts on the podcast. Also,
if you haven't already, don't forget to follow me on
Instagram at It's Sammy J. That's I T S S
A M M Y j A y E. And as always,
I will see you guys next week. Buy
Hey guys, and welcome to this week's episode of Let's
Be Real Podcast. As always, my name is Sammy J.
And this week's episode is with mental health advocate, activists,
and former D one athlete Victoria Garrett. When Victoria was
in college, she actually gave a TED talk called The
Hidden Opponent, which really talks about the mental health challenges
athletes face, and she turned it into a nonprofit called
(00:25):
The Hidden Opponent, talking about this in raising awareness. That
organization is now featured in Kobe Bryant and Eva Clark's
book Geese Are Never Swans. So we talked about the book.
We talk about her nonprofit, what it's like being a
student athlete, and how you can make an impact. I
hope you enjoy Victoria, Bye, how are you? I am good.
(00:48):
I am so excited to you have you on my
podcast for so many reasons, not only because we have
a lot to talk about, but also both of our
podcasts have the word real on a real pod Let's
Be Real. I think it's fitting. I know I noticed that,
and I was just like, I love this realness, being authentic,
no filters, that is all my favorite stuff. So glad
(01:08):
to meet one of the same exactly. It's so important,
especially with what's going on now in the world. Um. So,
like I said, we have a lot to talk about. First,
I read the book Either Never Swans, and oh, my goodness,
why hasn't there been a book out like this before. Yes,
it's such an amazing book. Um. That just really depicts
mental health issues so beautifully, and especially in athletes, which
(01:33):
is a storyline we don't often get. And I literally
read the entire novel in one night. That's depressive and
that's not even a joke. I had to read it
early because of the promo, so obviously I was like,
I gotta read this thing quick, but that I could
not put it down. It was so good. And that
also made me so happy because I am so passionate
about the story and people reading it. So I just
(01:56):
feel really once again real in the fact that I'm
promoting the book because I love it and I want
everyone to get their hands on it. So for those
who don't know, Uh, Kobe Bryant and Ava Clark created
the idea for this book, and they and Ava Clark
wrote it. Um, And I think this story is just
like I said, it's so not talked about and congratulations.
(02:19):
Your nonprofit is listed as a resource and I want
to talk more about that in a second, but first
I just want to talk about for those who haven't
read the book, can you give the synopsis? Yes. So
the synopsis of the book is as follows. It centers
around a young character, Gus. He is a swimmer, and
(02:40):
Gus is when we first opened the book, is dealing
with the grief of losing his older brother to suicide.
And his older brother was also a competitive swimmer, and
the older brother got very very very close to making
the Olympic Games and did not qualify at the Olympic trials,
and that devastation everything he dedicated his whole childhood to
(03:03):
qualify for the Olympic Games and then not make it
um was unbearable for that older brother, and he ends
up taking his own life. And so now Gus, the
younger brother, is navigating the loss of Danny, his broken
family life, and going to experience those same pressures, thoughts,
(03:24):
and stresses that his older brother experienced. Because Gus is
also a swimmer who also wants to go to the Olympics,
so we kind of see the same storyline manifest itself
and Gus but the difference is how can he navigate
these challenges better than his brother? When I read the book,
one of the main things that I took away from
it is that being a student, let alone a student athlete,
(03:45):
you try and plan everything accordingly, but you know, life
throws you curveballs, and it's not what the curveballs are,
but it's how you react them is what shapes you
as a person. So I'm curious, as a former do
one volleyball player at USC what kind of curveballs were
thrown your way? Well, it's interesting because I felt like, Um,
some of the curveballs I faced as a college athlete were.
(04:08):
One of the biggest ones was just my myself, the
own my own self talk, the things I said to
myself every day. In that kind of environment, my confidence
was shaken for sure. Um that question of am I
good enough to be here? Did I prepare enough? Do
I know enough? What do they think of me? Um?
The level is just so high that for me I
developed that sort of imposter syndrome. And I definitely feel
(04:31):
like towards While I definitely struggled with my mental health
throughout college, my senior year I felt like I had
kind of mastered my own mind and how to handle
it in those situations. But then I graduated and I've
been pursuing my own career, and I found that I
still struggle with those thoughts of my own self worth
(04:51):
or with anxiety. But now the narrative is slightly different,
and so I'm having to re understand the new curveballs, um,
and apply what I used to practice to this new dialogue,
if that makes sense. So I think every curveball we're
thrown in life, whether what comes next is similar or not,
we're developing and creating mechanisms to handle that sort of thing.
(05:16):
And so it only makes you start for sure. I
mean also, like you're going to say, like we're a
lot of the times our worst enemy, you know. It's
how I think. Also social media plays are roll into that,
which we can talk about later. Um. But another aspect
of this book that I love is the relationship that
gus Uh creates with his coach. It's that, you know,
(05:36):
camaraderie that I think is so special, and it's not
really talked about how that can help to have someone
like that who understands the pressurey that you're under. Did
you ever have that type of experience. I feel like
it's very special to have a coach who has that
sort of impact on you, in that relationship with you.
And I definitely experienced that sort of coaching in high
(06:00):
school from my club coach. However, UM, you know it
is it is something that when you continue in a
sport and you experience different coaches, and I had two
different college coaches. And on top of that, UM, if
you're great, if you're fortunate enough, depending on your division,
you might have three to four extra coaches on a staff.
(06:22):
So fortunately, I think with good people, there's always an
opportunity to form a connection. UM. But for me, I
would say, looking back on my sports career, you know,
being honest, being real, I don't have that one coach,
UM that I feel like changed my life. UM. I
did feel like I found that in teammates and role models,
(06:45):
but it is something that as an athlete, you know,
you hope you do come across. Do you think if
you had that that would have helped the pressures that
you kind of put unto yourself with under the such
high stakes. I definitely do. I think that when you
feel like your coach fully believes in you and wants
(07:05):
to see you shine and cares about you as a person.
Some of that you are going to mitigate some of
that stress and pressure because you're not worrying about what
your coach thinks about you, and there's not anymore. There's
not much uncertainty because their relationship is clear, and so
I definitely think that that would have been a help. However,
I learned one of my biggest lessons and not having that,
(07:26):
which is not letting people outside myself give me validation.
The more I seek, uh the approval of a teammate
or the approval of a coach or the non important
then then the less secure I can be in just
my own thoughts and knowing who I am. So while
I yes, that would have been nice to have, I
don't regret the incredible lesson it taught me of being
(07:48):
the person who creates my own storyline. So when you
found out that you were going to be a player
at USC, which is their volleyball team, in credible What
was your experience like in the work and for those
who don't understand how much goes into being a student athlete,
can you describe what your days were like? Yes, So,
(08:10):
I was so excited this was everything I had wanted,
especially playing volleyball my entire childhood, and so to get
this opportunity was huge. And getting there, I think you
like to imagine, you know, what it would be like
to be a student athlete, especially at USC. You think, oh,
I know, I can work really hard, I promise, like
(08:32):
all I want to do is play volleyball. You know,
you think these things, and then you get there and
they lay out your schedule and you realize that Monday
through Friday, from one o'clock to six o'clock, you can't
do anything but show up to the gym and just
do what they say. So from one to six Monday
through Friday, I would have practice, film a lift. Most
of the time in that block, you're you're working out
(08:54):
for about three four hours. Depending on the day, you
could have a three hour practice, US an hour and
a half lift. Um, the numbers could vary. My body
is just tired just hearing this, litterally doing it. And
then yes, and then you fit in your class before
one or after six. Not to mention the other things
that we do as college students, having a family life,
(09:17):
of social life, wanting to just get lunch with a friend, um,
and then you have games twice a week, and that
includes traveling out of the state depending on your club
friends and keeping up with the academic schedule. About everyone
else at the school is as well. When did you
have time to eat? That is the thing you have
(09:37):
to carve in, is like you have to make sure
you're eating and you have to like plug it into
your calendar. And that goes along with just even time
to do nothing. I feel like if I am waking
up and doing things and I'm super robotic, um, I
just feel like I'm not relaxed or I haven't had
a moment to distress. So it's also carving in like
(09:57):
thirty minutes to do nothing, which you barely can't even
get And honestly, at the time, my thirty minutes of
doing nothing was just sitting stressing about the things I
should be doing or um, you know, feeling overwhelmed and
kind of letting up because you know, and you just
do so many things that you don't focus on what's
really happening. And then you slow down, You're like, so
it becomes weird to like take a breath, Yes, you
(10:21):
realize what you've been kind of running from with this
busy schedule, so it was a lot. Um it is
a lot for current student athletes, and um, you know
that just comes with the territory. So I'm curious because
I'm always thinking about like different solutions to things. If
you could rewrite the curriculum for a student athlete, what
(10:41):
do you think you could do that would make it
more manageable. It's tough because they do try to make
sure all the schools are doing the same things and
have the same opportunities to practice and et cetera, and
they're very strict rules about that stuff. However, for UM,
I feel like the most obvious thing to me that
(11:05):
can be adjusted is just providing equal and accessible mental
health support for all student athletes. Uh, That to me
would have helped me manage everything much sooner. Is to
have that person to talk to. And fortunately at USC
I did have that. It took me a while to
go seek that help, but there are many many schools
and players who don't have an opportunity to seek that
(11:28):
help for their mental health. So it's incredibly important. And
that's another reason why the book Use Are Never Swands
so important is because it details this side of the
game that is equal to all the physical things we
do to compete. We had to take a quick break,
but when we come back, I want to talk about
mental health and athletes and something social media. We'll be
(11:49):
right back, and we're back my Season one finale. Kevin
Love with our guest and saw that that is my
dream interview congrat agulation. That was crazy. He's incredible and
we One of the things that we talked about that
I want to bring up with you is that there's
such a stigma for athletes going to therapy. It's fascinating
(12:11):
to me that it's okay to go to a sports psychologist,
it's okay to work out and get in great shape physically,
but yeah, there's such a stigma to go to therapy.
I always say that you're supposed to work out your body,
but you're also supposed to work out your mind, Like
that's what therapy is. I agree with that wholeheartedly. The
stigma from society is definitely a huge factor in the
(12:32):
reason why we don't prioritize mental health as much. It's
just this idea that because you can't see the injury
because it was invisible, because someone just has to say
it's there, makes it less believable, and we obviously know
as a society we don't like to believe things unless
we can see them. So, um, you know, I found
that the stigma of oh, you should just be able
(12:55):
to figure this out or cheer up, or you've got
this or brush it off, so not that simple, not
so simple exactly, especially these terms that we have coined
in sports culture, like brush it off, shake it up, um,
figure it out, just be clutched. All those things make
you think it is something you can just fix yourself.
But when we look deeper and we die below the
(13:16):
surface and we talked to those professionals and people who
really know what's happening inside our minds, they can tell
you it's not just a quick fix. It's the same
sort of injury as an a C L tear. You
need to go to rehab, you need to get surgery,
you need to um take time off. And if your brain,
if you're depressed, Um, the neurochemicals in your brain are
(13:36):
not the way they once were. You're not producing enough
serotonin from people. Forget, there's a science behind it. It's
not just like there's a chemical imbalance in your brain.
A lot at the time that's not just in your
head exactly. And I think we beat ourselves up for
not being able to think ourselves out of it. And
I struggle with that for a long time. I just said,
you've got to think yourself out of this. You know,
(13:58):
this just means you can't handle. No one else is
this way. And I discredited how severe the issue actually
was until it was really bad. Yeah, well, I heard
you say that you never really experienced anxiety before this. No,
my high school experience, I'm fortunate to say, was pleasant. Um,
(14:18):
I know a lot of people don't have that. I
wish I could say the same. Oh no, I'm sorry.
It wasn't rough. The first two years were the hardest
for me. Last year was a lot better, and this
year I'm a senior. So we're trending in the right direction.
But it's all about putting your mental health first, right, right.
And I also think we're at different times, um, with
social media, and even though we are close in age,
(14:41):
you are going through high school at a time where
we have a TikTok or we have Instagram the way
it is. I did not get Snapchat till my sophomore
year of high school. So even though I have been
very tech savvy, and I'm a younger generation. It was
not as prevalent as it was, so who knows how
many mental health would have been if I was dealing
with the same social media scrutiny and involvement that you
(15:03):
have to deal with. UM. But so for those reasons,
and also for having a pretty blessed, privileged family, UM,
I did not experience too many mental health issues. But
then when I got to college, I just felt like
that schedule we mentioned, the pressure we talked about all
just came out of nowhere and I was not able
(15:24):
to handle it. You mentioned this in your TED talk,
and I was so curious about this. You said that
if you're one minute late, you had to wake up
at six am and run. Why did they do that?
That is as clear as it sounds. If you are
one minute late, we are all running at six am
the next morning. That was a team role. Sixty seconds yep,
(15:46):
that was a team role. And it was just you
can't be late. There's absolutely no excuses. UM, we show
up on time or we show up early. And that
was one of the main things that developed to my
my anxiety a real quick and it wasn't understandably. It
wasn't just if you were lately ran at six am.
It was if you break any single rule on our
(16:08):
team rules, we will do six am running. So wearing
the wrong color shirt, forgetting your socks, like just common
human errors, punishing you for being human. But it's tough
because you know, I still look back and I'm torn between.
I personally think at this time in my life, I
(16:29):
could handle that penalty, I could handle those rules, and
as an eighteen year old who was dealing with so
many changes and adjustments in college as a freshman, I
just wasn't equipped to handle that stress and pressure. Because
I look back and I'm like, Okay, we were number
one in the country. We were undefeated. You know, there's
a reason why we were that good. And I'm guessing
(16:49):
rules and the team dynamic and that strictness played a
part in our performance. However, you know, I just wasn't
wise enough. I hadn't done enough work, I wasn't experienced
enough to know how to handle that pressure. And like,
if I had that rule now and I made the
team run, I feel like by accident, I feel like
I would just be like, you know what, sorry, guys,
(17:10):
I'm human. I forgot my mis shure, like I'll see
you guys six am. Whatever. That's life where a team
we do things like this, whereas freshman year was everyone's
gonna hate me. I'm a freshman, I'm a walk on.
I'm gonna make the steamyors run like it was just this.
There was so much more tied to it than just
a punch with the hierarchy of that too, like seniors.
(17:30):
And you couldn't be late to six am running. If
you are late to six am running, we had to
show up the next day. And that happened once someone
missed six am running because they overslept, and so we
had to come back the next day at six am.
Did you have time for a social scene with your schedule?
I did my best to try to keep up some
(17:50):
sort of social life. One of my my best friend
from high school, also went to USC and she was
not an athlete, so she was able to, you know,
bring me along to things and introduced me to her friends.
And I was grateful to have that because I didn't
have the time to go meet people at all. So
for her to just say, join us for dinner and
let me introduce you to all the friends I've made
(18:11):
was a really nice thing to have. However, something I
really struggled with was not having a social life or
friend group outside my team. And my senior year UM
in the spring was the first semester I was just
a student because volleyball is in the fall, and now
that I didn't have a season, I was training for
you get senior spring, just to be a student. And
(18:33):
that time in my life, I really was like, Wow,
I've been here for four years and my only friends
or social relationships were teammates, And it just was really
difficult for me to sit with that as a college senior,
thinking great, now I have all this time, I don't
have practice. I can do everything social I would ever
want to do, but I don't really have people to
(18:55):
do that with. And I really struggled with that. That
makes total sense, and I also think the social media
role that plays into that, where you see people having
fun and partying, then also you're torn between wanting to
go out, but then also you're in a really bad
mental state where you don't want to socialize with anybody.
It's that it's that you're between a rock and hard place. Well,
(19:15):
something I've discovered about myself in quarantine, which I'm so excited,
like this one thing will be the best thing that
I've realized about myself is so I mentioned I struggled
with kind of that lack of a ton of friends,
and I think, especially as females, there's this pressure to
have a girl group as a girl's night out, and
so you don't have that group of five or six
or that group chat, you think like something's wrong with me.
(19:38):
And before Quarantine, I just remember, like actively, how can
I build relationships? How can I invite someone here? Like
I need more friends? Because there were social things happening, pictures, events,
and I felt like I needed that. But now that
I've been in quarantine and there is no party to
go to, there are no pictures of the groups, there
are no things. I've looked at my life. I've been
(20:00):
realized I don't have an absence. I don't feel an
absence of friends. I have some of my my best
friends in the world, but let's be real that it's
like four or five people and they're not quality over quanity,
though that's what I always say, yes, quality over quantity.
But so I've realized, like these people give me everything
I needed friends, and I don't even have time for
(20:20):
the people that are my friends. They're always like, you're
so busy, can you make time for me? Because of
everything I'm doing. So I just realized, Wow, it was
an illusion that society was convincing me I needed more friends.
You need to go to these things with people in
the pictures, And now that there's no opportunity, I've realized
I don't need that at all. You know, you've talked
about how you would post these photos, but like they
would be so manicured, even though they would just look
(20:42):
quote unquote candid. Yeah. I spent a lot of time
trying to perfect my Instagram, especially in college, and make
sure it looked like I was everything I thought I
was supposed to be, a happy, skinny, pretty popular, um
like just enjoying this lifestyle and being this girl that
(21:04):
I thought, you know, you needed to be, and it
was just so fake and it was such a disconnect
with my heart because I remember just feeling like absolute um,
just feeling really bad about myself for feeling really down
and finding a picture to seek those likes and those
comments and and look at this little feed and think, Okay,
(21:24):
well this looks perfect so you know, maybe my life's
not as bad as I think it is. UM, And
that also wore on me over time, just putting up
a front and putting on a mask that wasn't genuine
to me. And I think if you live yes, and
if you live your life as someone else or something else,
(21:45):
you slowly start to lose touch with who you are.
And I just I had to stop that. Okay, we
have to take one more quick break, but want to
come back. I want to talk more. Thanks social media
and society's beauty standards. We'll be right back, and we're back.
I love so much how just authentic you are on
(22:05):
social media, and I love your TikTok because it is
just like with everything going on the world, and especially
on that app, it is just like, thank you real
it's authentic, which is needed more. I'm really grateful to
hear that. And you've got to get on the app. Girl.
It is where it is at right now. I mean,
I just it's we can talk. We can talk about
(22:27):
it after. But TikTok is just a game changer. And
the people I've been able to connect with, um, the
way I've been able to explore my creativity, you know,
I've found that in the message I want to share.
It's given me so many ways to communicate it. And
you are right, there's a very toxic diet culture on TikTok,
a very a very clear standard of beauty presented on
(22:50):
that app but you're breaking that. I think it is
important and um just I've been having a really great
time on it, and it means a lot to know that,
you know, you're enjoying the TikTok, So thank you. Something
that I've also just realized, there's just this gap in
what societal beauty standards, which is something that I want
to talk to you about because you know, there's so
(23:11):
many trends with it. You know, sometimes it's the like
skinny stick figures what's cool or beautiful, but then it's
the curse. But then it's like a normal body. Why
do you think that's something that's still so prevalent in
society when people are like, just don't look like that.
A lot of people, Well, we've just continued to give
attention to our appearance. First off, that's something that as
(23:36):
society we value. Um and I'm not saying that that's
what I value, but as a whole you just grow up,
especially as a female, being told to look a certain way,
present your look presentable. Um. And then there's all these
like adjectives people to attribute with that which is dainty, poised, feminine. UM.
(23:57):
I know, feminine was a big issue for me because
as an athlete, I didn't feel feminine. I felt sweaty
and bulky and strong, and even strong isn't something we
would associate with a beautiful female. So you have those narratives.
And then also we see the people who have the
(24:18):
power and the followings promoting image and you know, without
naming people, but I'll name people Kardashians. You know, we
see them most of the time very image focused, and
that in turn sends a message to the people who
follow them and consume their content, which is millions and
(24:38):
millions and millions, that that is important and also this
is what you should look like. And we need to
just start shifting the attention and the message, especially for
those younger generations, about what the priority is. And you know,
I don't think that the Kardashians wake up in the
morning and set out to make girls feel bad about themselves.
(24:59):
I They're also normal people like us who probably fallen
victim to the same standards and pressures, but they're under
a spotlight and so whether they like it or not,
they are setting the standard UM and we follow that.
And so it's important to pay attention to where we're
putting that focus, what we're trying to become UM and
(25:21):
then create our own notions around that. I know you've
talked about how you know from all these societal standards,
it made you want to change your body so you
either wouldn't eat or you know, and that's something that
so many people are facing. It's become kind of have
you seen those like TikTok's where it's like they make
light of it or they make it like normal something
(25:42):
they're so harmful because you know best, like when you're
an athlete, especially a student athlete, you have to bulk
up to play the sport. That's just what happens. You
gain muscle, um, you gain strength. How do you think
we can as a society change that to make that
still beautiful because it is It comes with each person
(26:03):
kind of claiming that power back and that authority to
be the person who validates themselves, be the person who
says this is okay and I don't need you to
approve it, and especially for female athletes, you know, we
need to remember that. And I made it to talk
about this yesterday, and it was just saying, you're not
there to look the prettiest. You're there to play the
(26:26):
best and ball out and do what you've been training
to do, not look the cutest in your uniform. But
we've once again in this society had people put such
a focus on our image that even athletes, female athletes me,
I wasn't focusing on how strong, fast, um good at
my sport. I was instead I was thinking about how
(26:47):
I looked too big, how I didn't look good enough, um,
how the muscles I had spent months building and developing
on my body were ugly um, and just ignoring the
fact that that was a mark of hard work. To
get muscle on your legs is hard to do. Yet
in that process I despised that growth. Wow, Unfortunately, it's
(27:10):
so hard to be a girl today, Like, it's so hard, um.
And I honestly love what you've done with your nonprofit.
I love that it's listed as a resource in this book.
So for those who aren't aware of your nonprofit, please
please share it. After struggling with my mental health freshman
(27:30):
and sophomore year, I delivered a TED talk in the
spring of my uh college time I've never time talked
abou summer year, and it was called The Hidden Opponent,
and it basically explained the stigma that athletes face when
it comes to mental health and the mental health issues
in sports that often go UM, not talked about or
(27:52):
not addressed. And after graduating, I continued to speak, and
I traveled at a different college campus is and I spoke.
But I realized that there's so much more than just
me and my one story. There's hundreds thousands of athletes
who experience these SAM struggles. So I wanted to create
a community, a platform where we could amplify the stories
(28:15):
of those student athletes and also create a community together
UM to kind of combat that stigma. And so it's
called The Hitting Opponent after my TED talk, but also
because I think, you know, I just love that that
idea that we're facing a competitor. We have another opponent,
but this one you can't see. And it's really been
special to develop this group. IY have an amazing UM
(28:37):
team of people who who helped Ben Ruvo as a
baseball player in college he's our president, and all of
the team is made up of current and former student athletes,
and we have a Facebook group with hundreds of athletes.
So it's really it's really special, and I'm so grateful
that Kobe supported it and that we can be a
resource in this book and anyone who reads it and
(28:57):
is struggling can come our way. Just starting a nonprofit
for this is so important because, like you've talked about,
it's not talked about. Yeah, it's not at all. So
I know you've been asked would you write a book?
You know, I've seen your answers. You even asked a lot.
But I'm going to change your research. I did, so
what I'm going to change up the question would you
ever make a documentary? I mean, I would love to
(29:23):
participate in that or do that, and I am willing
to share my story in any capacity and hopes that
it helps. But speaking of that, there's an incredible documentary
coming out any day now called The Weight of Gold
with Michael Phelps and all these incredible athletes who talk
about the mental health issues of Olympic athletes. Um so
(29:43):
that sounds that is something very similar to what you
just asked coming out too, and then also just big
not to Kevin Love who you've interviewed, but just for
him to kind of champion this conversation just creates waves,
um for him to complete it's incredible. It's also this
it's this stigma that all of this is a stigma,
(30:05):
and I just don't understand it because if everybody goes
through it, then why is it not talked about? Yeah? No,
I agree for sure, and I think the stigma has
already changed dramatically, which is incredible, just from my freshman
year of school where it was at too now my
first year out of school, looking at where the conversation is, um,
I really feel like it is super prevalent in sports
(30:27):
right now. And that's that's awesome that in just four
years we've seen such great lengths. I agree, And I
also think that you have persevered not only through the
transition but also to get on the team. So for
someone who has been rejected, what advice would you give
them to Kno, give up? I believe that when it
comes to what should I give up or not? And
(30:51):
I almost want to refer to that room as more
like move on, because you know there aren't people that
do have to stop for certain reasons. And you never
want someone to look back and think they couldn't do
it or they wouldn't strong enough, because it's a difficult
decision to stop something. I would just my advice would
be to really look inside yourself, forget the external noise,
(31:12):
what your parents say, what social media said, what you
said in the past, two people, whatever it is you're
dealing with, and think, you know, is my heart in this?
Do I really want to do? I have more to give?
And sometimes that answer is going to be no, and
that's perfectly okay. And other times you might think, yeah,
I got a little fight left in me and you
want to keep going. And for me, I had a
little fight left in me, and I'm glad that I
(31:33):
kept going. Man Like, I think I feel like if
more people were as honest as you have been, just
in general, I think the world would be a much
better place. That is so sweet of you, and you
are super honest too, so I'm glad that you get
to host these conversations with all these incredible people and
bring that realness out of them. Well, thank you very much,
(31:55):
And if you haven't already, please go purchase Ease or
never Swans and don't forget to check out Victoria Garrick
on her social media. It's just Victoria Garrick on all
of them, right, yes, yes, yes, yes. And also go
check out the Hidden Opponent. Yes, come to the Hidden
Opponent Instagram or if you're a student athlete, join our
Facebook group. We definitely want you there. Thank you guys
(32:19):
so much for listening to this week's episode of the
Let's Be Real Podcast. If you have not already, don't
forget to subscribe and leave a comment if you have
any suggestions or just your thoughts on the podcast. Also,
if you haven't already, don't forget to follow me on
Instagram at It's Sammy J. That's I T S S
A M M Y j A y E. And as always,
I will see you guys next week. Buy
Host
Sammy Jaye
Popular Podcasts
Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club
Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.