December 11, 2023 • 29 mins
The Honorable Kimberly M. Foxx, Cook County State’s Attorney, joined Angela for her latest episode. She is the first Black woman to lead the Cook County State’s Attorney’s Office – the second-largest prosecutor’s office in the country. Kim took office on December 1, 2016, with a vision for transforming the Cook County State’s Attorney’s Office into a fairer, more forward-thinking agency focused on rebuilding public trust, promoting transparency, and being proactive in making all communities safe. She was elected to a second term in 2020.
Born and raised in Cabrini Green on Chicago’s Near North Side, Kim is a graduate of Southern Illinois University, where she earned a B.A. in Political Science and a J.D. from the SIU School of Law. Check It Out and Be Inspired!
The Women Inspire Chicago Podcast is sponsored by Potbelly.
The Honorable Kimberly M. Foxx, Cook County State’s Attorney:
LinkedIn: Kimberly Foxx
Twitter/X: @Sakimfoxx
Instagram: @Sakimfoxx
Facebook: @Sakimfoxx
Cook County State Attorney Office:
LinkedIn: @cookcountysao
Twitter/X: @cookcountysao
Instagram: @cookcountysao
Facebook: @cookcountysao
Born and raised in Cabrini Green on Chicago’s Near North Side, Kim is a graduate of Southern Illinois University, where she earned a B.A. in Political Science and a J.D. from the SIU School of Law. Check It Out and Be Inspired!
The Women Inspire Chicago Podcast is sponsored by Potbelly.
The Honorable Kimberly M. Foxx, Cook County State’s Attorney:
LinkedIn: Kimberly Foxx
Twitter/X: @Sakimfoxx
Instagram: @Sakimfoxx
Facebook: @Sakimfoxx
Cook County State Attorney Office:
LinkedIn: @cookcountysao
Twitter/X: @cookcountysao
Instagram: @cookcountysao
Facebook: @cookcountysao
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
I Heard Media Chicago presents the WomenInspire Chicago podcast, hosted by Angela Ingram
I Heard Chicago's SVP of Communications andproduced by I Heard Chicago's Jasmine Bennetts.
Angela hosts inspiring conversations with some ofChicago's top women executives. The Honorable Kimberly
M. Fox Cook County State's Attorneyjoined Angela for her latest episode. Check
(00:21):
it out and be inspired. TheHonorable Kimberly M. Fox Cook County States
Attorney, the first black Cook CountyStates Attorney in the second largest prosecutor's office
in the United States. Welcome toWomen Inspire Chicago. Thank you. Give
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us a little background on how kimmade it to the top spot. I
had a praying grandmother. I amena praying grandmother, A strong willed single
mom, born and raised here inthe city of Chicago in Kabrini Green public
housing projects, just to determ criminationof my family. Having come from incredibly
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humble and challenging beginnings, These womenwho believed that I could do great things
and so they moved mountains for me, allowed me, you know, to
go to school at a top notchmagnet school while transporting back and forth to
Gabrini. When I said, asa child, I wanted to be a
lawyer, they both said, thenyou will be a lawyer, and supported
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me along the way and enabled meto graduate despite challenges. You know,
we lost our housing when I wasa junior in high school and still having
to show up to school and getthe work done, to graduating from high
school and going to college and decidingthat as a lawyer, I wanted to
be able to help families like myfamily, so representing children in foster care
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and ultimately becoming an assistant State's attorneyand as a prosecutor in the very office
that I now run on behalf ofvictims of crime, ultimately being the chief
of staff to the county boy president, and watching a black woman in leadership
lead on a apologetically as a blackwoman, inspired me that I could not
just work at the State's Attorney's officebut lead it. And in twenty sixteen
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I won my first election. Intwenty twenty, I won reelection and I
am a year from completing my termand I hear that you're not running again.
I'm not sure we're all happy aboutthat, but you know, we
all have a purpose, and youtalk about that often, and I think
we know when our purpose has beenfulfilled and whatever's next for you. There's
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something next for you. The justincredible success that you've had Askook County State's
Attorney speaks to that, and soI am excited to see what's next for
you. When I think about KimFox from Capreeny Green, you moved on
up. We had a session beforethis one and it was entitled breaking through
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the Glass Ceiling and Surviving the Cuts. Let's talk about those cuts. Yeah,
both personally and professionally. Yeah.Ye. I think people say that,
you know, when you're the firstand you're breaking a glass, we
have to remind that your head iswhat goes first, and it is painful,
right, So we celebrate, andI certainly want to celebrate the accomplishments,
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but it comes at a price.It comes at you know, both
personal and professional professionally. You know, when I came into office in twenty
sixteen, less than one percent ofelected prosecutors across the country, less than
one percent were women of color.They're about two four hundred elected prosecutors in
the country. Less than twenty ofthem were black women. In the state
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of Illinois. I was the onlyblack person elected State's Attorney in the state
of Illinois entire state and state's history. We talk about Chicago and Cook County.
Right now, I'm the only blackstates Attorney in the entire state of
Illinois. And so with that comeswhen people don't normally see someone like you
in those roles, It comes challenge. Your intelligence is questioned, your credibility
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is questioned. How you move again, and it's a very male dominated space,
so your gender and you know,how you show up. I've had
people, you know, say wildlyinappropriate things to me who are supposed to
be my peers. I've had peoplewho report to me struggle in reporting to
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a woman, reporting to a blackwoman, and so navigating a space where
you are vulnerable because there aren't therethe network and the sisterhood doesn't necessarily exist,
where when you challenge things, it'sthe battles that you are having to
choose, so that every conversation isn'tthat you are complaining, but you also
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have to bend the culture by sayingwe're not going to do things the way
we used to do them. Andso professionally that was really very difficult.
Personally, you know, I wasa mother of young children coming into this
work, young young daughters who theirformative teenage adolescent years coincided when their mother
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took on this big public job.You know, I'd married a college sweetheart
who had known me in the earliestand most humble of days, who had
now watched his wife become a nationalfigure. And the toll that it takes
having that level of success and notorietyand purpose, you know, it's hard.
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I remember going to grocery store withmy daughter, who would get so
frustrated that people will stop us inthe grocery store and want to talk.
And one day, and she hadto have been maybe eleven, she said,
how do I get to be thepeople who vote for you? And
I said, what do you mean? And she said, because you care
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more about them than you do.Oh. And she thought if she voted,
then then she would have more ofmy time. And that. You
know, it's hard when we talkabout working parents and and balancing purpose and
big mission and the responsibilities of yourpersonal life. So it cut. That
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cut. That cut was a deepcut and so innocent. Though yes,
she wasn't trying to hurt, shemeant it. She meant, how could
she have my time in the waythat she watched me give my time to
others? What is your motivation tokeep going? I think it is.
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It's why I talk about Cabrini somuch. It is so ingrained in me.
I knew some of the smartest,funniest, most thoughtful, creative people
in those projects, and I getto represent them in the way that they
have not had the opportunity to berepresented. When we tell the stories of
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life in the projects, it isoften from a position of lack, It
is often from a position of survival, and all of those things were present.
But these were some of the mostbrilliant people who I believe, if
given the opportunity, could change ourworld. And people say to me,
you know, they're inspired by mystory, right, the daughter of a
single mom living in the projects,having been homeless, a survivor of sexual
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assault and abuse. You say thesethings, and people say ask me all
time, how did you make it? And it is based on the supposition
the people like me aren't supposed tomake it, And so I'm motivated by
I am not the exception. I'mactually not that exceptional. If you knew
the great lineage that I came from, from the people who you would ignore,
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who you would think you know,their pedigree doesn't lend them this space.
If you knew where I came from, if you knew where a hustle
came from, if you knew whatthat ethic look like, then you would
have a deeper appreciation. That's whatI'm motivated by. I'm motivated by those
people who's brilliance in light have notbeen able to shine, and I get
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to be the vessel for their stories. My purpose, Well, why do
you feel is so important to shareyour challenges? You are so open,
You are an open book, You'rereal, And I know there's one thing
that you've said to us so manytimes. Nothing's off limits. No,
because I think there's a level ofnaivete that even I had coming into the
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space. Right. I knew thatI was smart. I knew that I
was talented. I knew I wasa good lawyer. I had accomplished a
lot even before I became the StatesAttorney. I was chief of staff to
the County Board President. I oversawat the time a five billion dollar budget
and process, and I was avery good trial lawyer. So I knew
my abilities I was taken aback byhow so quickly my abilities could be dismissed,
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taken aback by the depth of thecuts when you break the glass ceiling.
I thought, honestly, you sawfrom where I came, you know
that I can do this, thatyou would give me the chance to thrive.
And it was the opposite. Andso I'm honest about that because I
don't want the lessons and the learningsthat it took me a couple of years.
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When you are knocked off your heelslike you're scrambling to you know,
I'm here to work and fight.If you are always on your heels,
if you are always trying to gatheryourself and like where am I, it's
time away from the work. Andso I believe in being honest and transparent
from the jump. For high schoolstudents, grammar school girls, like I
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want you to know from the verybeginning, this is gonna be hard,
not undoable. Like I've seen thelineing we do this, this is what
we do. But I want toarm us with an unvarnished look of what
it is so that we can startpreparing for it, so that we can
build a tool rus in the communityto help us navigate. How do you
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handle the criticism? You know,I am so much better. My former
boss used to say to me,Kim, you have to take the praise
and the criticism in the same vein. There are people who will love you
who have never met you, whowill ascribe all of these great qualities to
you and know nothing about you,in the same way that people who have
never met you will ascribe horrible thingsabout you and judgments about you and have
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never met you. And so youhave to root yourself in The fundamental question
is do I believe in what I'mdoing? Do I think that what I
am doing is right and be motivatedby that, because inasmuch as I think
people want the praise and then canbe dismissive of criticism, or in my
case, I was consumed by thecriticism in losing focus of the things that
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we were doing right, I waschasing a thing. I was chasing a
validation that was never going to come. And so I deal with criticism of
is there something to be learned?Is there something that I should be doing
differently? Better? Am? Ithink you have to be open and vulnerable
to These are human endeavors, andthere is criticism can absolutely be constructive.
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Criticism can actually help you be better, but you have to be open to
it. Doesn't define you. Butam I open to the moment to be
able to learn and grow from it. If you had an opportunity to do
something over again, what would beYou know? I wrestle with that a
lot, and it's one of thosewhere I don't know that I would do
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anything different. It's like watching thoseshows where people go back in time,
and if you touch something the wrongway, or if you walk into somebody
else's path, it alters the chainof events for history. I believe that
everything that I've done, every mistakethat I have made, has prepared me
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for whatever comes next, or whatevermistake that I've made has been a learning,
if not for me, for somebodyelse. Every failing that I have
had in every recovery as a resultof that can be an inspiration for someone.
And so I don't know that Iwould do anything differently other than in
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the darkest of times, give myselfmore grace. How do you handle your
own celebrity. You've talked about yourfamily and your friends, but how do
you handle that? You know,I think it's really odd that I have
a level of celebrity. It iseven hard for me to use the phrase
celebrity, and people would say thatto me and I would get frustrated.
I'm a public servant. I ama public servant, and I am though
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reminded that. You know, there'sa rap song with a lyric about me
in it, Little Dirk's No Interviewshas a lyric about me. In the
TV show The Bear has a referenceto me in it. There's a show,
a spinoff that has a da fromChicago who is a black woman that
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eerily reminds me of me. Andit is sometimes mind boggling because I didn't
do this work for any of that, for pop culture. So to find
myself in pop culture, to findmyself not even just in pop culture,
but like I said in the nailshop, when I walk in and there
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are black women there and they're like, hey Cam. And again, I
grew up in a community where everybodywas a cousin, play cousin. And
when someone says, hey Cam,you think you related. I have so
many relatives in this in this county. The way they say my name when
I go to the parades and it'slike hey Cam, and I stopped being
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confounded by it and am humbled byit because I know in the celebrity people
see themselves, they see themselves.What a gift to be a reflection for
folks. What a gift if ouronly representation in the justice system has been
that of people who have been hurtor hurt others and not as someone who
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could be a champion for justice.I'll take it. But that's a testament
to you your demeanor. You're open, You're real. You're the girl next
door. I am you are,You're the girl next door, and so
when we see you, you're approachable, we know that you have our best
interest in mind. I will tellanybody that you are my favorite prosecutor.
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I haven't had to use your services, thank god, what if I did.
Yeah, But when you can handleyour celebrity status the way you just
described it, that's why you canwalk away. He doesn't defined you.
That's why after two terms you havechosen not to run for reelection because if
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not you could you could because you'reyou would be hung up. But you
know that your purpose far Extendsica CountyAttorney's Office. I think it's like we
talked about a little earlier, I'velived with people who believed that they didn't
have power. I live with peoplewho didn't believe that the people who occupied
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these seats even saw them or appreciatedthem, that they mattered. We talk
about a tale of two cities.You know. I was in the worst
of times, and the people wholived in that they had so little trust
in the institutions because the institutions hadfailed them. And so for me,
it has never been about power forpower's sake. It has been about elevating
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the issues and the people who couldnever imagine themselves here. And I have
been in conversations Angela, quite honestlywith people who have who are more affluent,
who have had a great deal ofpower, who have said to me
things like those people, and Ihave to remind people I am I am
those people. And so it isif you are tethered to what got you
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here, I'm tethered. My powercomes from the people in community who don't
get in these rooms, not fromthe people who've always occupied them. Because
there will be people who want tobe in such proximity to power that they
will forget the people that they serve. I can walk away because it is
not about the power. It isabout the position of the people who got
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me here. And I think Ihave done I won't say enough, because
I'll never feel like I've done enough, but I think I have shown myself
to be here for the people thatI serve. So what is next for
you? I don't know. Icome from a long tradition of folks who
say, you don't leave a jobwithout having a job. I mean you.
I hear my grandmother's voice in thisstatement. Listen, you do not
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leave a job. And I madean announcement that I was leaving my job
with a lot of time. Andit's very funny. It is the number
one question. I'm asked, whatare you gonna do next? What are
you gonna do next? And youknow it's gonna be hard for me,
a joke, having been the leaderof this office and having been a chief
of staff, to be reporting tosomebody that I can't imagine someone asking me
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to have something ready by three mm. Okay, I'm gonna see. I
want to find this has been sopurpose filled, this has been so it's
an honor to move in purpose.It's an honor to be called to do
something, because then it means thatthere's a belief that you could do it.
So there's a part of me thatis all right. I feel like
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I've done this thing that I'm supposedto do. What does frivolity look like?
What is unabashed for volity and selffulfillment? Because this is very much
about not me. I get tobe the face, but this work has
never been about me. And sowhat does the next career path look like?
Where maybe I get to focus ona passion of mine and having the
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space and the energy to even figureout what those passions are. I guarantee
you to be rooted in service insome way. I don't see how it
could be. I don't need youa remark of a true public servant.
This city, this state, thiscounty is better because you passed through the
Cook County State's Attorney's office, andthat is a blessing. Think you stepped
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up to your call and had younot come from Cabrini Green and you could
see what is to be, youcould see Cabrini Green. You're right.
I heard you say earlier that younever take Cabrini Green out of your bio
and and the blessing because that that'sthe reminder that is the reminder of where
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you've been, but look at whatGod has done, and you still have
a whole nother time career to go. What inspires you about the future of
women in leadership? My daughters,I for as much as you know,
I think, like most mothers,we question whether we got it right.
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Like I think there's no more jobwhere you feel the most insecure about your
abilities than parenting. But I seemy daughters are so bold, and it's
not just me. I think it'sa generation, and I think each generation
has that right. I remind mydaughters, you know that my grandmother came
up in an era where women couldn'teven get their own bank accounts until the
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year I was born. They couldn'tvote, they couldn't vote like I.
And so with each successive generation yousee, you see the next layer of
leadership like I where I sit,You know, the generations before me paved
it. But I'm so inspired bythis young generation of activists and activists on
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all levels and younger and younger,whether that's on police accountability, whether that's
on maternal health care, whether that'son access to education, whether that's on
global conflicts in which we don't thinkthat they are paying attention watching young people
hold adults accountable around gun violence.It's the young people. And so I
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look at my daughters and I hearthem. I mean, they got a
take on everything. And there havebeen days where, truly my daughters have
been like, you just gonna letthat happen. They have called me to
the carpet, and I'm inspired bythat. There's a fearlessness that has not
yet been tarnished by the world,and I want to make it my mission
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to stave off that tarnishing for aslong as I can, so that fearlessness
can thrive to move us all forward. What advice do you have for the
new generation? Very much like JasmineBennett, my advice is show up,
fully, show up, fully,show up with every life experience that got
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you to where you where you are. I think so often, you know,
we go, especially for those ofus who come from challenging backgrounds and
the instinct and broader places where othersmay not have had those challenges, to
hide that, to tuck that in, to not stand out, standing out
can be really vulnerable. And Ifind that the greatest innovations come from people
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who show up with things that wemay not have been able to see.
Who show up with experiences that havetaught them lessons that may take somebody who
studied a book a really long timeto learn to show up fully, as
unsafe as it may feel, asfrustrating as it may be, to show
up fully, show all the wayup. First, I want to say
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I love that the theme of todaywas breaking through the glass ceiling. But
hearing Kim really talk it made methink about glass on the floor and trying
to go where you really want tobe in life. And it's so easy.
Of course, if you're walking barefooton a glass path, it's easy
to cut yourself, but it's noteasy to take the glass out of your
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foot and keep walking. That's noteasy. And you've done that. And
not only are you inspiring Chicago,but you're inspiring women everywhere. So thank
you for that. And my quoteis from Joseph and Marshall the Third.
He says, when a storm blows, you must stand firm, for it
is not trying to knock you down. It really is trying to teach you
to be strong. Yeah, stormsare going to come as always always,
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but you can make it through always. I've seen it. We've seen it.
We know women in our lives whosestruggles may not be plastered on the
news, you may not read aboutthem in the paper who have endured.
And we resilience people you know like, oh, we shouldn't have to be
resilient. I think our greatest gifthas been the lineage of women before us
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who have been resilient. The examplefor which they have set and native has
been weathering storms. And the glassthat comes out of my foot is not
me picking it myself. It reallyis others who lay you back, who
clean the wound, ye who pullit. We don't do this alone.
We don't do this alone. Andso yeah, clearing the space and watching
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the glass fall and recognizing that,yes, that person coming right behind you
might catch one in their foot alsomeans that we got to be there and
be ready to clean that wound andget you back out there. Thank you.
I always say that I am faithfulto Him, our Lord and Savior,
because of my mother, my grandmother, my aunt, my sister.
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So many of us do not drawfrom the experiences. I mean, they're
part of our value. Sys Yes, absolutely, that's how we operate.
I don't think there's a choice ofdecision I make any day that one of
them does not come to mind.And only of the four I mentioned,
only one still with us. Yeah, absolutely still here in spirit, so
present. There is not a daythat goes by. My mother and my
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grandmother didn't see this. They didn'tThey did not live to see me elected
to this position. And that's hard. I don't think about it. I
try not to think about it,but I think it's why I talk about
them so much, because I don'tknow that they could have fathomed it.
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But the value system that they instilledin me. My grandmother we went to
a primitive Baptist church, and inthe primitive Baptist church, you do feet
washing once a month, and thatmeans you sit and they have a basin
of water, and you go andyou kneel on the ground and you take
the foit of your neighbor and youwash their feet in the basin. And
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it is premised one on Jesus himselfbeing a servant. And so when I
hear people talk about servant leadership andI'm like, you know what, I
didn't learn that in a book.I learned that at Thompson Hopewell Permanent Baptist
church, washing the feet of theelder, some of them feet my God
wusta. But that value that youare not bigger than the next. So,
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however big, whatever the celebrity lookslike, I was raised. I
was raised on my knees cleaning myneighbor's feet. And so the pride that
I have when people say that tome is that my grandmother gave me that.
And the fight that my mother hadto get me the education because she
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knew the schools and Camrini weren't doingit and we were going to go.
And the absolute dogged relentlessness that shehad to give my brother and I what
we deserve. That for either ofthem to see me as a leader and
to see me as a fighter,they got me, and they would be
very proud. And they know they'rewith you every day. They know,
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and this was all a part ofGod's grandmaster play as well. They were
not supposed to physically be here onearth and see it, but you walk
with them every day every day.The pure essence of who you are every
day is your mother and your grandmotherand the black mothers and grandmothers in this
city who That's also a reason Ido it. When we lose a child
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of violence, I don't know thatthat could have been the next Attorney General
or the next mayor. Then whenwe see violence in neighborhoods that we have
so often dismissed and written off,That's why I talk about Cabrini. It's
almost as though we haven't lost athing of value there. And if I
from six twenty four West Division couldbecome the first black woman to hold this
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position, what are we losing?Yes? And so speaking that speaking voice
into those people who would not normallybe seen and then having us appreciate their
value to all of our society.Every time we lose a child or a
person in this city is the potentialthat we are losing for greatness. They
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couldn't have predicted that I would behere. So when we pick up the
newspaper when we see somebody's passed awayto violence, all of us should be
shattered because the next Jasmine super Produceror a turn like is there. And
so it is also why you knowthe transparent the service. All of that
is because I really know God's gracebecause I am here while others have not
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made it, and I have anabsolute responsibility to make sure the rest of
us are seen. When you lookat those who've been wrongly convicted, I
know that that is a passion ofyours to make sure that they're free.
I think as a prosecutor, nothingshould keep us up more at night than
(27:55):
getting it wrong. I think wehave so many things, so many problems
with our justice system, and wewould be on for hours talking about them.
But I think we have at thecore. Our system fails when we
send people to prison for crimes theydidn't commit, and so we have a
righteous and urgent responsibility to fix thatfor each person that comes out. And
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so far, we have vacated theconvictions of almost two hundred and sixty man
and women, the most in thecountry. We've led the country for the
last five years, and the numberof vacating the wrongful convictions five years running,
and we've just tipped the iceberg.It is. Those are systems failures,
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and it diminishes the credibility of oursystem. It makes people not trust
it when we get it wrong,and especially when we don't make it right.
And for the men and women whocome home to worlds that have changed
to universes that no longer function inthe same way that they thought they did.
There's not enough money in the worldthat we can do to compensate them.
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But for me, there's nothing morepressing and urgent than acknowledging the harm
and trying to make it right.Kimberly M. Fox, Cook County State's
Attorney, thank you so much,Thank you so much for being with us
today. Your story is just thepure essence of Women Inspire Chicago. And
as Jasmine said, not just Chicago, the world. You make it real,
(29:23):
You make it real, and youalso exemplify what's possible. Yeah,
and that is the blessing. Thankyou, Thank you, Thanks for listening
to the Women Inspire Chicago podcast,hosted by Angela Ingram, presented by iHeartMedia
Chicago, and produced by Jasmine Bennett. The Women Inspire Chicago podcast is sponsored
(29:44):
by pot Belly. Feed your groupfrom small to larch with pot Belly catering.
Pot Belly, you Gotta get ItHot.
I Heard Media Chicago presents the WomenInspire Chicago podcast, hosted by Angela Ingram
I Heard Chicago's SVP of Communications andproduced by I Heard Chicago's Jasmine Bennetts.
Angela hosts inspiring conversations with some ofChicago's top women executives. The Honorable Kimberly
M. Fox Cook County State's Attorneyjoined Angela for her latest episode. Check
(00:21):
it out and be inspired. TheHonorable Kimberly M. Fox Cook County States
Attorney, the first black Cook CountyStates Attorney in the second largest prosecutor's office
in the United States. Welcome toWomen Inspire Chicago. Thank you. Give
(00:41):
us a little background on how kimmade it to the top spot. I
had a praying grandmother. I amena praying grandmother, A strong willed single
mom, born and raised here inthe city of Chicago in Kabrini Green public
housing projects, just to determ criminationof my family. Having come from incredibly
(01:03):
humble and challenging beginnings, These womenwho believed that I could do great things
and so they moved mountains for me, allowed me, you know, to
go to school at a top notchmagnet school while transporting back and forth to
Gabrini. When I said, asa child, I wanted to be a
lawyer, they both said, thenyou will be a lawyer, and supported
(01:25):
me along the way and enabled meto graduate despite challenges. You know,
we lost our housing when I wasa junior in high school and still having
to show up to school and getthe work done, to graduating from high
school and going to college and decidingthat as a lawyer, I wanted to
be able to help families like myfamily, so representing children in foster care
(01:46):
and ultimately becoming an assistant State's attorneyand as a prosecutor in the very office
that I now run on behalf ofvictims of crime, ultimately being the chief
of staff to the county boy president, and watching a black woman in leadership
lead on a apologetically as a blackwoman, inspired me that I could not
just work at the State's Attorney's officebut lead it. And in twenty sixteen
(02:08):
I won my first election. Intwenty twenty, I won reelection and I
am a year from completing my termand I hear that you're not running again.
I'm not sure we're all happy aboutthat, but you know, we
all have a purpose, and youtalk about that often, and I think
we know when our purpose has beenfulfilled and whatever's next for you. There's
(02:30):
something next for you. The justincredible success that you've had Askook County State's
Attorney speaks to that, and soI am excited to see what's next for
you. When I think about KimFox from Capreeny Green, you moved on
up. We had a session beforethis one and it was entitled breaking through
(02:51):
the Glass Ceiling and Surviving the Cuts. Let's talk about those cuts. Yeah,
both personally and professionally. Yeah.Ye. I think people say that,
you know, when you're the firstand you're breaking a glass, we
have to remind that your head iswhat goes first, and it is painful,
right, So we celebrate, andI certainly want to celebrate the accomplishments,
(03:14):
but it comes at a price.It comes at you know, both
personal and professional professionally. You know, when I came into office in twenty
sixteen, less than one percent ofelected prosecutors across the country, less than
one percent were women of color.They're about two four hundred elected prosecutors in
the country. Less than twenty ofthem were black women. In the state
(03:37):
of Illinois. I was the onlyblack person elected State's Attorney in the state
of Illinois entire state and state's history. We talk about Chicago and Cook County.
Right now, I'm the only blackstates Attorney in the entire state of
Illinois. And so with that comeswhen people don't normally see someone like you
in those roles, It comes challenge. Your intelligence is questioned, your credibility
(04:02):
is questioned. How you move again, and it's a very male dominated space,
so your gender and you know,how you show up. I've had
people, you know, say wildlyinappropriate things to me who are supposed to
be my peers. I've had peoplewho report to me struggle in reporting to
(04:24):
a woman, reporting to a blackwoman, and so navigating a space where
you are vulnerable because there aren't therethe network and the sisterhood doesn't necessarily exist,
where when you challenge things, it'sthe battles that you are having to
choose, so that every conversation isn'tthat you are complaining, but you also
(04:45):
have to bend the culture by sayingwe're not going to do things the way
we used to do them. Andso professionally that was really very difficult.
Personally, you know, I wasa mother of young children coming into this
work, young young daughters who theirformative teenage adolescent years coincided when their mother
(05:06):
took on this big public job.You know, I'd married a college sweetheart
who had known me in the earliestand most humble of days, who had
now watched his wife become a nationalfigure. And the toll that it takes
having that level of success and notorietyand purpose, you know, it's hard.
(05:31):
I remember going to grocery store withmy daughter, who would get so
frustrated that people will stop us inthe grocery store and want to talk.
And one day, and she hadto have been maybe eleven, she said,
how do I get to be thepeople who vote for you? And
I said, what do you mean? And she said, because you care
(05:53):
more about them than you do.Oh. And she thought if she voted,
then then she would have more ofmy time. And that. You
know, it's hard when we talkabout working parents and and balancing purpose and
big mission and the responsibilities of yourpersonal life. So it cut. That
(06:15):
cut. That cut was a deepcut and so innocent. Though yes,
she wasn't trying to hurt, shemeant it. She meant, how could
she have my time in the waythat she watched me give my time to
others? What is your motivation tokeep going? I think it is.
(06:36):
It's why I talk about Cabrini somuch. It is so ingrained in me.
I knew some of the smartest,funniest, most thoughtful, creative people
in those projects, and I getto represent them in the way that they
have not had the opportunity to berepresented. When we tell the stories of
(07:00):
life in the projects, it isoften from a position of lack, It
is often from a position of survival, and all of those things were present.
But these were some of the mostbrilliant people who I believe, if
given the opportunity, could change ourworld. And people say to me,
you know, they're inspired by mystory, right, the daughter of a
single mom living in the projects,having been homeless, a survivor of sexual
(07:27):
assault and abuse. You say thesethings, and people say ask me all
time, how did you make it? And it is based on the supposition
the people like me aren't supposed tomake it, And so I'm motivated by
I am not the exception. I'mactually not that exceptional. If you knew
the great lineage that I came from, from the people who you would ignore,
(07:48):
who you would think you know,their pedigree doesn't lend them this space.
If you knew where I came from, if you knew where a hustle
came from, if you knew whatthat ethic look like, then you would
have a deeper appreciation. That's whatI'm motivated by. I'm motivated by those
people who's brilliance in light have notbeen able to shine, and I get
(08:09):
to be the vessel for their stories. My purpose, Well, why do
you feel is so important to shareyour challenges? You are so open,
You are an open book, You'rereal, And I know there's one thing
that you've said to us so manytimes. Nothing's off limits. No,
because I think there's a level ofnaivete that even I had coming into the
(08:31):
space. Right. I knew thatI was smart. I knew that I
was talented. I knew I wasa good lawyer. I had accomplished a
lot even before I became the StatesAttorney. I was chief of staff to
the County Board President. I oversawat the time a five billion dollar budget
and process, and I was avery good trial lawyer. So I knew
my abilities I was taken aback byhow so quickly my abilities could be dismissed,
(09:00):
taken aback by the depth of thecuts when you break the glass ceiling.
I thought, honestly, you sawfrom where I came, you know
that I can do this, thatyou would give me the chance to thrive.
And it was the opposite. Andso I'm honest about that because I
don't want the lessons and the learningsthat it took me a couple of years.
(09:20):
When you are knocked off your heelslike you're scrambling to you know,
I'm here to work and fight.If you are always on your heels,
if you are always trying to gatheryourself and like where am I, it's
time away from the work. Andso I believe in being honest and transparent
from the jump. For high schoolstudents, grammar school girls, like I
(09:41):
want you to know from the verybeginning, this is gonna be hard,
not undoable. Like I've seen thelineing we do this, this is what
we do. But I want toarm us with an unvarnished look of what
it is so that we can startpreparing for it, so that we can
build a tool rus in the communityto help us navigate. How do you
(10:03):
handle the criticism? You know,I am so much better. My former
boss used to say to me,Kim, you have to take the praise
and the criticism in the same vein. There are people who will love you
who have never met you, whowill ascribe all of these great qualities to
you and know nothing about you,in the same way that people who have
never met you will ascribe horrible thingsabout you and judgments about you and have
(10:26):
never met you. And so youhave to root yourself in The fundamental question
is do I believe in what I'mdoing? Do I think that what I
am doing is right and be motivatedby that, because inasmuch as I think
people want the praise and then canbe dismissive of criticism, or in my
case, I was consumed by thecriticism in losing focus of the things that
(10:48):
we were doing right, I waschasing a thing. I was chasing a
validation that was never going to come. And so I deal with criticism of
is there something to be learned?Is there something that I should be doing
differently? Better? Am? Ithink you have to be open and vulnerable
to These are human endeavors, andthere is criticism can absolutely be constructive.
(11:11):
Criticism can actually help you be better, but you have to be open to
it. Doesn't define you. Butam I open to the moment to be
able to learn and grow from it. If you had an opportunity to do
something over again, what would beYou know? I wrestle with that a
lot, and it's one of thosewhere I don't know that I would do
(11:31):
anything different. It's like watching thoseshows where people go back in time,
and if you touch something the wrongway, or if you walk into somebody
else's path, it alters the chainof events for history. I believe that
everything that I've done, every mistakethat I have made, has prepared me
(11:52):
for whatever comes next, or whatevermistake that I've made has been a learning,
if not for me, for somebodyelse. Every failing that I have
had in every recovery as a resultof that can be an inspiration for someone.
And so I don't know that Iwould do anything differently other than in
(12:16):
the darkest of times, give myselfmore grace. How do you handle your
own celebrity. You've talked about yourfamily and your friends, but how do
you handle that? You know,I think it's really odd that I have
a level of celebrity. It iseven hard for me to use the phrase
celebrity, and people would say thatto me and I would get frustrated.
I'm a public servant. I ama public servant, and I am though
(12:41):
reminded that. You know, there'sa rap song with a lyric about me
in it, Little Dirk's No Interviewshas a lyric about me. In the
TV show The Bear has a referenceto me in it. There's a show,
a spinoff that has a da fromChicago who is a black woman that
(13:03):
eerily reminds me of me. Andit is sometimes mind boggling because I didn't
do this work for any of that, for pop culture. So to find
myself in pop culture, to findmyself not even just in pop culture,
but like I said in the nailshop, when I walk in and there
(13:24):
are black women there and they're like, hey Cam. And again, I
grew up in a community where everybodywas a cousin, play cousin. And
when someone says, hey Cam,you think you related. I have so
many relatives in this in this county. The way they say my name when
I go to the parades and it'slike hey Cam, and I stopped being
(13:45):
confounded by it and am humbled byit because I know in the celebrity people
see themselves, they see themselves.What a gift to be a reflection for
folks. What a gift if ouronly representation in the justice system has been
that of people who have been hurtor hurt others and not as someone who
(14:11):
could be a champion for justice.I'll take it. But that's a testament
to you your demeanor. You're open, You're real. You're the girl next
door. I am you are,You're the girl next door, and so
when we see you, you're approachable, we know that you have our best
interest in mind. I will tellanybody that you are my favorite prosecutor.
(14:31):
I haven't had to use your services, thank god, what if I did.
Yeah, But when you can handleyour celebrity status the way you just
described it, that's why you canwalk away. He doesn't defined you.
That's why after two terms you havechosen not to run for reelection because if
(14:52):
not you could you could because you'reyou would be hung up. But you
know that your purpose far Extendsica CountyAttorney's Office. I think it's like we
talked about a little earlier, I'velived with people who believed that they didn't
have power. I live with peoplewho didn't believe that the people who occupied
(15:16):
these seats even saw them or appreciatedthem, that they mattered. We talk
about a tale of two cities.You know. I was in the worst
of times, and the people wholived in that they had so little trust
in the institutions because the institutions hadfailed them. And so for me,
it has never been about power forpower's sake. It has been about elevating
(15:41):
the issues and the people who couldnever imagine themselves here. And I have
been in conversations Angela, quite honestlywith people who have who are more affluent,
who have had a great deal ofpower, who have said to me
things like those people, and Ihave to remind people I am I am
those people. And so it isif you are tethered to what got you
(16:06):
here, I'm tethered. My powercomes from the people in community who don't
get in these rooms, not fromthe people who've always occupied them. Because
there will be people who want tobe in such proximity to power that they
will forget the people that they serve. I can walk away because it is
not about the power. It isabout the position of the people who got
(16:29):
me here. And I think Ihave done I won't say enough, because
I'll never feel like I've done enough, but I think I have shown myself
to be here for the people thatI serve. So what is next for
you? I don't know. Icome from a long tradition of folks who
say, you don't leave a jobwithout having a job. I mean you.
I hear my grandmother's voice in thisstatement. Listen, you do not
(16:52):
leave a job. And I madean announcement that I was leaving my job
with a lot of time. Andit's very funny. It is the number
one question. I'm asked, whatare you gonna do next? What are
you gonna do next? And youknow it's gonna be hard for me,
a joke, having been the leaderof this office and having been a chief
of staff, to be reporting tosomebody that I can't imagine someone asking me
(17:18):
to have something ready by three mm. Okay, I'm gonna see. I
want to find this has been sopurpose filled, this has been so it's
an honor to move in purpose.It's an honor to be called to do
something, because then it means thatthere's a belief that you could do it.
So there's a part of me thatis all right. I feel like
(17:40):
I've done this thing that I'm supposedto do. What does frivolity look like?
What is unabashed for volity and selffulfillment? Because this is very much
about not me. I get tobe the face, but this work has
never been about me. And sowhat does the next career path look like?
Where maybe I get to focus ona passion of mine and having the
(18:03):
space and the energy to even figureout what those passions are. I guarantee
you to be rooted in service insome way. I don't see how it
could be. I don't need youa remark of a true public servant.
This city, this state, thiscounty is better because you passed through the
Cook County State's Attorney's office, andthat is a blessing. Think you stepped
(18:27):
up to your call and had younot come from Cabrini Green and you could
see what is to be, youcould see Cabrini Green. You're right.
I heard you say earlier that younever take Cabrini Green out of your bio
and and the blessing because that that'sthe reminder that is the reminder of where
(18:48):
you've been, but look at whatGod has done, and you still have
a whole nother time career to go. What inspires you about the future of
women in leadership? My daughters,I for as much as you know,
I think, like most mothers,we question whether we got it right.
(19:11):
Like I think there's no more jobwhere you feel the most insecure about your
abilities than parenting. But I seemy daughters are so bold, and it's
not just me. I think it'sa generation, and I think each generation
has that right. I remind mydaughters, you know that my grandmother came
up in an era where women couldn'teven get their own bank accounts until the
(19:34):
year I was born. They couldn'tvote, they couldn't vote like I.
And so with each successive generation yousee, you see the next layer of
leadership like I where I sit,You know, the generations before me paved
it. But I'm so inspired bythis young generation of activists and activists on
(19:56):
all levels and younger and younger,whether that's on police accountability, whether that's
on maternal health care, whether that'son access to education, whether that's on
global conflicts in which we don't thinkthat they are paying attention watching young people
hold adults accountable around gun violence.It's the young people. And so I
(20:21):
look at my daughters and I hearthem. I mean, they got a
take on everything. And there havebeen days where, truly my daughters have
been like, you just gonna letthat happen. They have called me to
the carpet, and I'm inspired bythat. There's a fearlessness that has not
yet been tarnished by the world,and I want to make it my mission
(20:44):
to stave off that tarnishing for aslong as I can, so that fearlessness
can thrive to move us all forward. What advice do you have for the
new generation? Very much like JasmineBennett, my advice is show up,
fully, show up, fully,show up with every life experience that got
(21:07):
you to where you where you are. I think so often, you know,
we go, especially for those ofus who come from challenging backgrounds and
the instinct and broader places where othersmay not have had those challenges, to
hide that, to tuck that in, to not stand out, standing out
can be really vulnerable. And Ifind that the greatest innovations come from people
(21:33):
who show up with things that wemay not have been able to see.
Who show up with experiences that havetaught them lessons that may take somebody who
studied a book a really long timeto learn to show up fully, as
unsafe as it may feel, asfrustrating as it may be, to show
up fully, show all the wayup. First, I want to say
(21:56):
I love that the theme of todaywas breaking through the glass ceiling. But
hearing Kim really talk it made methink about glass on the floor and trying
to go where you really want tobe in life. And it's so easy.
Of course, if you're walking barefooton a glass path, it's easy
to cut yourself, but it's noteasy to take the glass out of your
(22:18):
foot and keep walking. That's noteasy. And you've done that. And
not only are you inspiring Chicago,but you're inspiring women everywhere. So thank
you for that. And my quoteis from Joseph and Marshall the Third.
He says, when a storm blows, you must stand firm, for it
is not trying to knock you down. It really is trying to teach you
to be strong. Yeah, stormsare going to come as always always,
(22:41):
but you can make it through always. I've seen it. We've seen it.
We know women in our lives whosestruggles may not be plastered on the
news, you may not read aboutthem in the paper who have endured.
And we resilience people you know like, oh, we shouldn't have to be
resilient. I think our greatest gifthas been the lineage of women before us
(23:07):
who have been resilient. The examplefor which they have set and native has
been weathering storms. And the glassthat comes out of my foot is not
me picking it myself. It reallyis others who lay you back, who
clean the wound, ye who pullit. We don't do this alone.
We don't do this alone. Andso yeah, clearing the space and watching
(23:30):
the glass fall and recognizing that,yes, that person coming right behind you
might catch one in their foot alsomeans that we got to be there and
be ready to clean that wound andget you back out there. Thank you.
I always say that I am faithfulto Him, our Lord and Savior,
because of my mother, my grandmother, my aunt, my sister.
(23:52):
So many of us do not drawfrom the experiences. I mean, they're
part of our value. Sys Yes, absolutely, that's how we operate.
I don't think there's a choice ofdecision I make any day that one of
them does not come to mind.And only of the four I mentioned,
only one still with us. Yeah, absolutely still here in spirit, so
present. There is not a daythat goes by. My mother and my
(24:12):
grandmother didn't see this. They didn'tThey did not live to see me elected
to this position. And that's hard. I don't think about it. I
try not to think about it,but I think it's why I talk about
them so much, because I don'tknow that they could have fathomed it.
(24:32):
But the value system that they instilledin me. My grandmother we went to
a primitive Baptist church, and inthe primitive Baptist church, you do feet
washing once a month, and thatmeans you sit and they have a basin
of water, and you go andyou kneel on the ground and you take
the foit of your neighbor and youwash their feet in the basin. And
(24:53):
it is premised one on Jesus himselfbeing a servant. And so when I
hear people talk about servant leadership andI'm like, you know what, I
didn't learn that in a book.I learned that at Thompson Hopewell Permanent Baptist
church, washing the feet of theelder, some of them feet my God
wusta. But that value that youare not bigger than the next. So,
(25:18):
however big, whatever the celebrity lookslike, I was raised. I
was raised on my knees cleaning myneighbor's feet. And so the pride that
I have when people say that tome is that my grandmother gave me that.
And the fight that my mother hadto get me the education because she
(25:41):
knew the schools and Camrini weren't doingit and we were going to go.
And the absolute dogged relentlessness that shehad to give my brother and I what
we deserve. That for either ofthem to see me as a leader and
to see me as a fighter,they got me, and they would be
very proud. And they know they'rewith you every day. They know,
(26:03):
and this was all a part ofGod's grandmaster play as well. They were
not supposed to physically be here onearth and see it, but you walk
with them every day every day.The pure essence of who you are every
day is your mother and your grandmotherand the black mothers and grandmothers in this
city who That's also a reason Ido it. When we lose a child
(26:25):
of violence, I don't know thatthat could have been the next Attorney General
or the next mayor. Then whenwe see violence in neighborhoods that we have
so often dismissed and written off,That's why I talk about Cabrini. It's
almost as though we haven't lost athing of value there. And if I
from six twenty four West Division couldbecome the first black woman to hold this
(26:45):
position, what are we losing?Yes? And so speaking that speaking voice
into those people who would not normallybe seen and then having us appreciate their
value to all of our society.Every time we lose a child or a
person in this city is the potentialthat we are losing for greatness. They
(27:07):
couldn't have predicted that I would behere. So when we pick up the
newspaper when we see somebody's passed awayto violence, all of us should be
shattered because the next Jasmine super Produceror a turn like is there. And
so it is also why you knowthe transparent the service. All of that
is because I really know God's gracebecause I am here while others have not
(27:33):
made it, and I have anabsolute responsibility to make sure the rest of
us are seen. When you lookat those who've been wrongly convicted, I
know that that is a passion ofyours to make sure that they're free.
I think as a prosecutor, nothingshould keep us up more at night than
(27:55):
getting it wrong. I think wehave so many things, so many problems
with our justice system, and wewould be on for hours talking about them.
But I think we have at thecore. Our system fails when we
send people to prison for crimes theydidn't commit, and so we have a
righteous and urgent responsibility to fix thatfor each person that comes out. And
(28:17):
so far, we have vacated theconvictions of almost two hundred and sixty man
and women, the most in thecountry. We've led the country for the
last five years, and the numberof vacating the wrongful convictions five years running,
and we've just tipped the iceberg.It is. Those are systems failures,
(28:37):
and it diminishes the credibility of oursystem. It makes people not trust
it when we get it wrong,and especially when we don't make it right.
And for the men and women whocome home to worlds that have changed
to universes that no longer function inthe same way that they thought they did.
There's not enough money in the worldthat we can do to compensate them.
(29:00):
But for me, there's nothing morepressing and urgent than acknowledging the harm
and trying to make it right.Kimberly M. Fox, Cook County State's
Attorney, thank you so much,Thank you so much for being with us
today. Your story is just thepure essence of Women Inspire Chicago. And
as Jasmine said, not just Chicago, the world. You make it real,
(29:23):
You make it real, and youalso exemplify what's possible. Yeah,
and that is the blessing. Thankyou, Thank you, Thanks for listening
to the Women Inspire Chicago podcast,hosted by Angela Ingram, presented by iHeartMedia
Chicago, and produced by Jasmine Bennett. The Women Inspire Chicago podcast is sponsored
(29:44):
by pot Belly. Feed your groupfrom small to larch with pot Belly catering.
Pot Belly, you Gotta get ItHot.
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